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From Barn to Yarn: The story of spinning wheels, with Heavenly Bresser
25 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Ben Miller speaks with knit maven Heavenly Bresser, founder of the store Heavenly Knitchet and devotee of ye olde spinning wheel. The pair gets into the mechanics of spinning wheels, the form’s centuries-old history, and the largest wheel in Bresser’s extensive collection, which is also her favorite: a pendulum wheel manufactured by Justin B. Wait in the 1800s, whose drive wheel is 46 1/2 inches in diameter.
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Transcript
Introduction to Curious Objects Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
00:00:13
Speaker
I'm Ben Miller.
00:00:15
Speaker
This is the podcast about art, decorative arts, and antiques, the stories behind them, and what they can tell us about the people who came before us.
00:00:23
Speaker
My guest today has a very unusual collection, and it's a type of object that we've never had on Curious Objects before, but you've definitely seen it
Guest Introduction and Unique Collection
00:00:33
Speaker
before.
00:00:33
Speaker
In fact, it's rather iconic.
00:00:36
Speaker
And one reason I think it's such an interesting kind of collection is that these objects are actually tools.
00:00:42
Speaker
They were used to create other objects, some of which definitely have been on Curious Objects before.
00:00:49
Speaker
So, in a way, this episode is a little bit meta.
00:00:53
Speaker
We're talking about spinning wheels.
00:00:57
Speaker
You know the type.
00:00:58
Speaker
If you haven't seen a picture of one in a medieval illuminated manuscript, you might have seen Gandhi sitting at one spinning yarn.
00:01:06
Speaker
Or the girls in Wagner's Flying Dutchman singing while they spin.
00:01:10
Speaker
They've been around for centuries, maybe millennia, but...
00:01:13
Speaker
Collecting them as artifacts is still a relatively unexplored field, but, as luck would have it, listener Nicole wrote in to tell me about someone doing just that.
00:01:25
Speaker
Collecting antique spinning wheels while also using them, and keeping that craft tradition alive.
Heavenly Bresser: Collector and Restorer
00:01:32
Speaker
That person is heavenly Bresser.
00:01:35
Speaker
She runs what she calls a wonderful world of fiber arts, spinning yarn, teaching classes, studying craft history, and of course, finding and restoring wheels.
00:01:47
Speaker
I'm really excited to pick her brain, so let's get right to it.
00:01:51
Speaker
Heavenly, are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
00:01:56
Speaker
I am.
00:01:56
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:01:58
Speaker
All right.
00:01:59
Speaker
What's the oldest spinning wheel you own?
00:02:02
Speaker
I believe I have a wheel that is late 1700s.
00:02:06
Speaker
That one is a recent acquisition in my collection.
00:02:12
Speaker
And I actually did some repair work on that.
00:02:16
Speaker
So hopefully we'll talk about that a little bit later.
00:02:18
Speaker
That's exciting.
00:02:20
Speaker
What's the biggest spinning wheelie that you've ever used?
00:02:24
Speaker
The biggest spinning wheel that I've ever used would be the pendulum wheel that I own.
00:02:31
Speaker
And it also is my favorite wheel out of my collection.
00:02:34
Speaker
And this is going to be our curious object today.
00:02:37
Speaker
So we're going to hear a lot more about that one.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:42
Speaker
What about the smallest wheel?
00:02:45
Speaker
Oh, the smallest wheel that I have is actually an e-spinner.
00:02:50
Speaker
So that one's on the modern side of things.
00:02:54
Speaker
And yeah, for E, that really stands for electric spinner.
00:03:00
Speaker
And I use it.
00:03:01
Speaker
I usually use that one for making samples for some of the classes that I teach.
00:03:10
Speaker
Other than that, I'm trying to think what else might be small.
00:03:12
Speaker
I think that's the smallest.
00:03:14
Speaker
How small is it?
00:03:16
Speaker
Um, it's small enough to fit on a very tiny plate.
00:03:21
Speaker
So on
Dispelling Myths and Spinning Wheel Mechanics
00:03:22
Speaker
tiny saucer.
00:03:22
Speaker
Wow, it's really miniature.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:27
Speaker
The biggest reel, how big is that?
00:03:30
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that one, it almost takes up my entire living room wall, which you'll see in the pictures.
00:03:36
Speaker
But oh my gosh, that one is huge.
00:03:41
Speaker
You can't easily transport that at all.
00:03:43
Speaker
Okay, I love the range here from incredibly small to incredibly large.
00:03:49
Speaker
And actually when you're spinning on it, you actually need more room so that the swing arm will actually leave the living room and enter my walkway or my doorway when you first walk into my house.
00:04:04
Speaker
That's incredible.
00:04:07
Speaker
Incredibly long range.
00:04:10
Speaker
Have you ever pricked your finger on a spindle like Sleeping Beauty?
00:04:14
Speaker
No, never.
00:04:15
Speaker
What do you think about that story?
00:04:18
Speaker
I hate it.
00:04:19
Speaker
Really?
00:04:21
Speaker
I do.
00:04:23
Speaker
When I go out to events or sometimes I will do demonstrations for local farm events.
00:04:31
Speaker
And oftentimes people will bring up that story and I would say, it's not as accurate as you think.
00:04:41
Speaker
Really?
00:04:41
Speaker
And then I explain the mechanics of the spinning wheel.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:44
Speaker
OK, so that's not something you have to worry about.
00:04:48
Speaker
No, you don't have to worry about pricking yourself on spinning wheels.
00:04:52
Speaker
The only wheel that would have a bit of a point to it would be the spindle wheels.
00:04:59
Speaker
So the pendulum wheel that is the curious object today, that one does have a spindle on it.
00:05:07
Speaker
And the tip of it is not sharp.
00:05:10
Speaker
The tips are actually blunt.
00:05:12
Speaker
So you don't have to worry about pricking yourself or having a...
00:05:18
Speaker
I don't know, a death session.
00:05:20
Speaker
Okay, I think I'm going to use that one.
00:05:23
Speaker
Thank you very much.
00:05:26
Speaker
Are you right or left-handed?
00:05:30
Speaker
I lean right when it comes to handedness with writing.
00:05:36
Speaker
With most things, including spinning, I actually spin with both hands.
00:05:40
Speaker
So it just depends on the wheel, mostly.
00:05:42
Speaker
Really?
00:05:42
Speaker
Are most wheels designed for right-handed people, or does it matter?
00:05:49
Speaker
So the great wheels, and these are sometimes referred to as a wool wheel.
00:05:56
Speaker
Those are
00:05:59
Speaker
will require a person to use their right hand to turn the large wheel.
00:06:05
Speaker
And then the left hand will hold the fiber and actually spin
00:06:09
Speaker
the fiber onto that spindle.
00:06:11
Speaker
So most of the work, believe it or not, or most of the control is happening with the left hand.
00:06:18
Speaker
So it does help to have some sort of practice using your left hand so you can hold the fiber and actually spin yarn and not drop the fiber.
00:06:29
Speaker
Interesting.
00:06:31
Speaker
Okay, cool.
00:06:32
Speaker
Do you ever sing while you spin or do any other kind of ritual to keep your rhythm?
00:06:38
Speaker
I don't sing while I spin.
00:06:41
Speaker
Singing is not usually in my ritual of spinning.
00:06:49
Speaker
However, I do like to listen to music.
00:06:54
Speaker
So I like to listen to jazz.
00:06:58
Speaker
I like to listen to usually something calm.
00:07:02
Speaker
I don't listen to hard rock while I'm spinning yarns.
00:07:06
Speaker
But I do like to listen to... I would love it if you did though.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah, my yarn might come out really interesting afterwards.
00:07:17
Speaker
But I like to listen to things that are calming where I don't, I'm not really thinking so much about the spinning, but I'm actually listening more to the music.
00:07:25
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:07:27
Speaker
Do you think it's time to reclaim the term spinster?
Cultural Reclamation and Inspirations
00:07:35
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:36
Speaker
I, yes.
00:07:37
Speaker
The answer to that is yes.
00:07:40
Speaker
I would love to reclaim that word.
00:07:42
Speaker
Excellent.
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:43
Speaker
I look forward to your public advocacy organization.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:48
Speaker
I need to look into that.
00:07:50
Speaker
I think, I think it's worth a little investigation.
00:07:54
Speaker
What's your favorite museum to visit?
00:07:57
Speaker
Oh, my favorite museum.
00:07:59
Speaker
All of them.
00:08:00
Speaker
I don't think I have a favorite museum.
00:08:02
Speaker
Um,
00:08:04
Speaker
Let's see.
00:08:06
Speaker
I love history in general.
00:08:08
Speaker
So I love just about any museum.
00:08:12
Speaker
One of my favorites in Chicago is the Field Museum.
00:08:17
Speaker
Oh, I love the Field Museum.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, I really like going to that museum.
00:08:24
Speaker
I was born in Chicago in the city and I lived really close to lots of attractions and all of these wonderful places to visit.
00:08:37
Speaker
So it was really nice to be around that at a young age.
00:08:43
Speaker
So I do have a deep appreciation for museums and cultural events, things like that.
00:08:52
Speaker
What artist or crafts person would you invite to dinner?
00:08:55
Speaker
They could be living or dead.
00:08:58
Speaker
Living?
00:08:58
Speaker
Well, I don't want dead people at the table.
00:09:02
Speaker
Well, let's say you could bring them back to life for dinner.
00:09:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:09
Speaker
I was just thinking, I don't think I want to have dinner with dead people.
00:09:12
Speaker
I'm not picturing a zombie dinner here.
00:09:16
Speaker
All right.
00:09:17
Speaker
So artist or what was the other?
00:09:19
Speaker
Crafts person.
00:09:22
Speaker
Or craftsperson.
00:09:24
Speaker
It could be somebody who does spinning.
00:09:28
Speaker
Someone who does spinning.
00:09:30
Speaker
If they're alive, you could probably have dinner with them already just based on your network.
00:09:38
Speaker
I would like to have dinner with a woman named Margaret Stove.
00:09:46
Speaker
She's really well known for spinning really, really fine yarn.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I don't know a ton about her, so I would love to talk to her and get to know her.
00:09:58
Speaker
I bet you have a barrage of questions for her.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if I have a ton of questions.
00:10:08
Speaker
I like to get to know people behind the art.
00:10:12
Speaker
Just curious how their mind works.
00:10:15
Speaker
Just how they think about things and what made you study that particular field?
00:10:21
Speaker
Like why take an interest in this particular part of the craft?
00:10:26
Speaker
as opposed to some other things you might have been interested in, you know, at some point.
00:10:32
Speaker
So I think I'd have a few questions for her for sure.
00:10:38
Speaker
And I'm trying to think if there's anyone else that stands out.
00:10:42
Speaker
Sounds a little bit like what I'm doing with you right now.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:50
Speaker
That would be great.
00:10:51
Speaker
Just curious about her.
00:10:53
Speaker
I don't know a ton.
00:10:53
Speaker
So that's nice.
00:10:54
Speaker
Some others I do know quite a bit about or read a lot about.
00:11:00
Speaker
So yeah, I would want to know more about her.
00:11:05
Speaker
What's one book that somebody new to spinning wheels should read to start to understand them and their history?
00:11:13
Speaker
Oh, boy.
00:11:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:15
Speaker
Just one book?
00:11:18
Speaker
Let's start with one.
00:11:20
Speaker
We'll stick to one.
00:11:21
Speaker
I think my favorite book in relation to older wheels, antiques, and even some vintage information would be a book by...
00:11:35
Speaker
David A. Pennington and Michael B. Taylor.
00:11:40
Speaker
And the book is titled Spinning Wheels and Accessories.
00:11:44
Speaker
This is my favorite, favorite, favorite book when it comes to looking at the different spinning wheels that are available and seeing the different designs and
00:11:58
Speaker
knowing a little more about the history behind patents and things like that.
00:12:04
Speaker
This wheel pretty much covers a good amount of what most people want to know about the different spinning wheel designs and from different parts of the world.
00:12:13
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:12:15
Speaker
Sounds like a great resource.
00:12:20
Speaker
We'll be right back with Heavenly Breast.
00:12:23
Speaker
As always, I want to take a minute just to say thanks for listening.
00:12:26
Speaker
And thanks for getting in touch and sharing your thoughts.
00:12:30
Speaker
Special thank you this time around to Nicole for alerting me to the fantastic work that Heavenly is doing, which we're about to hear a lot more about.
00:12:39
Speaker
But all of you who take the time to listen and share
00:12:42
Speaker
maybe learn a few things about these objects and join me in connecting to their stories?
00:12:48
Speaker
Well, you are the reason we do this show.
00:12:51
Speaker
So thank you for tuning in and for subscribing to Curious Objects in your podcast app.
00:12:58
Speaker
If you haven't done that yet, I highly recommend it.
00:13:00
Speaker
That's the best way to make sure you don't miss future episodes.
00:13:04
Speaker
And thanks to all of you who have heard an episode and thought, maybe my friend would be interested in this one, or my mom, or my son, or my coworker, and told that person about it.
00:13:17
Speaker
That word of mouth is the single best way for curious objects to grow.
00:13:22
Speaker
We don't advertise.
00:13:24
Speaker
We don't have a paywall for any of our episodes.
00:13:27
Speaker
And so every bit of help that you give us by getting the word out there is honestly...
00:13:33
Speaker
Well, I appreciate it so much.
Technical Insights on Spinning Wheel Mechanics
00:13:36
Speaker
If you do want to get in touch, you can find me on Instagram at Objective Interest, or you can send me an email at CuriousObjectsPodcast at gmail.com.
00:13:47
Speaker
I'd love to hear from you.
00:13:50
Speaker
And with that, let's get back to Heavenly Breznor.
00:13:58
Speaker
So right off the bat, I just want to know how do spinning wheels actually work?
00:14:04
Speaker
Oh, right.
00:14:07
Speaker
So let's start with the basics here.
00:14:11
Speaker
Most people have a picture of a spinning wheel that actually has treadles.
00:14:19
Speaker
So it might be a single treadle or it could be a double treadle.
00:14:23
Speaker
And the treadle is where you would place your feet somewhere near the bottom of the spinning wheel so that you can use your feet to turn the drive wheel.
00:14:35
Speaker
So most wheels have one drive wheel.
00:14:39
Speaker
There are some interesting ones that have more than one.
00:14:43
Speaker
The most wheels will have one drive wheel.
00:14:45
Speaker
And the drive wheel is connected by a drive band.
00:14:51
Speaker
So some sort of cording, which is connected to a...
00:14:58
Speaker
flyer and that flyer has a bobbin which will hold the yarn.
00:15:03
Speaker
So to use a wheel, a person would sit in front of this wheel, put their feet on the treadle, the drivel would turn and that also causes the flyer and the bobbin to turn.
00:15:15
Speaker
And the person would spin or take the fiber that they have and they will attach some sort of yarn to the bobbin.
00:15:26
Speaker
And there's a tiny little hole that comes out of the flyer.
00:15:29
Speaker
So you would attach your yarn to that bobbin.
00:15:33
Speaker
little leader or that yarn that you place onto this bobbin and use your feet to turn that wheel and use one hand to feed the fiber into the flyer.
00:15:45
Speaker
So that is one version.
00:15:48
Speaker
A lot of coordination.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yes, it does require some.
00:15:51
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:53
Speaker
It does require some coordination for flyer wheels.
00:15:58
Speaker
So that's one type of spinning wheel.
00:16:00
Speaker
The older spinning wheels would be the great wheels where they have the large drive wheel that's powered by your hand.
00:16:09
Speaker
So there isn't a treadle for you to use, but you would use your hand to move the drive wheel around.
00:16:19
Speaker
So you would hold onto a spoke and you would,
00:16:22
Speaker
turn it around in a full circle.
00:16:25
Speaker
And that will drive your spindle.
00:16:30
Speaker
And you would be able to spin your fiber onto that spindle and you would walk as you're doing this.
00:16:38
Speaker
So that's where the great wheel gets the term walking wheel.
00:16:44
Speaker
You would stand the entire time as you're doing this particular movement.
00:16:50
Speaker
Wow.
00:16:51
Speaker
So you're not only very well coordinated, but you're also getting exercise.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yes, you are.
00:16:58
Speaker
You're getting a lot of exercise.
00:17:01
Speaker
And the pendulum wheel that we have as a curious object today, it actually marries the two.
00:17:11
Speaker
So it takes the concept of a
00:17:14
Speaker
more traditional wheel that you can sit and treadle in front of.
00:17:21
Speaker
And it takes the idea of the great wheel where you're standing the entire time and it allows you to actually sit down and still use the large drive wheel and spin onto a spindle.
00:17:37
Speaker
You said that you have a spinning wheel that dates back to the late 1700s.
00:17:42
Speaker
How far back in history do spinning wheels go?
00:17:46
Speaker
Spinning wheels go back pretty far in history.
00:17:50
Speaker
However, we don't have a definite date on the very first spinning wheel.
00:18:00
Speaker
Throughout history, we are able to see depictions through illustrations, and we're able to see some wheels basically through drawings and pictures from different cultures, so some images in Asia or some from...
00:18:22
Speaker
India and different places will see some depictions of what the earlier spinning wheels would have looked like, but we don't have a definite date on those particular wheels.
00:18:36
Speaker
So the precursor to the spinning wheel would be the spindles.
00:18:42
Speaker
So with spindles,
00:18:46
Speaker
those are powered by hand.
00:18:48
Speaker
So no wheel involved, no drive wheel at all.
00:18:52
Speaker
And,
00:18:53
Speaker
And those were made with sticks, any found objects, stones.
00:18:58
Speaker
Those were things that were, that could be found in archaeological sites and things like that.
00:19:06
Speaker
So there actually is more information about different types of spindles and those things based off of burial sites, because some of those objects were buried with their owners.
00:19:19
Speaker
As far as wheels go, we don't have...
00:19:23
Speaker
We don't have nearly as much information about the very first spinning wheel, surprisingly.
00:19:29
Speaker
I actually looked into this a few times and I got a lot of different answers.
00:19:36
Speaker
Really?
00:19:37
Speaker
Yes, I looked into...
00:19:40
Speaker
the very first spinning wheel.
00:19:42
Speaker
Some resources will say that in Europe, the earliest record is 1280.
00:19:53
Speaker
Others will say it's somewhere between 1335 to 1340.
00:19:55
Speaker
There are a few resources that mentions that
00:20:04
Speaker
The very first spinning wheel was probably invented in India.
00:20:11
Speaker
Doesn't give a good range of a date, a date range.
00:20:17
Speaker
And then there are a few other sources that mentioned somewhere between 500 to 1000 AD.
00:20:28
Speaker
As you start to research some of the information, you start to get a little confused, trying to figure out where was this, you know, the groundbreaking, you know, idea of having a wheel.
00:20:46
Speaker
Like, who found out about it first or thought to create this really cool mechanism first?
00:20:53
Speaker
And if not first, where are the records?
00:20:57
Speaker
Like hardcore records of the wheel actually being in existence besides having pictures because seeing them in photos will give us an idea that these wheels existed before that photo existed.
00:21:12
Speaker
But yeah,
00:21:13
Speaker
Oftentimes we don't know exactly when the photo was made or taken.
00:21:20
Speaker
You just have pictures.
00:21:21
Speaker
So yeah, so it's just really interesting.
00:21:23
Speaker
If you just do a quick search, you will see so many different dates and different ideas and where it actually started.
00:21:34
Speaker
But most people would agree that it may have been in India first.
00:21:41
Speaker
but we don't know this for sure.
00:21:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:45
Speaker
So there's a lot of opportunity for further research.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:50
Speaker
So tell me about, let's get back to our curious object for today, which you said is the biggest spinning wheel that you've ever used.
Unique Spinning Wheel Designs
00:22:00
Speaker
So tell me a little more, like, what does this actually look like and how does it feel to use it?
00:22:06
Speaker
All right, so the pendulum wheel, as I mentioned before, is large.
00:22:12
Speaker
It's massive.
00:22:13
Speaker
So it has a diameter of 46 and a half inches.
00:22:18
Speaker
So just let that settle in.
00:22:22
Speaker
That's more than a yard or a meter.
00:22:25
Speaker
It's just under four feet as far as the actual, yeah, the drival diameter.
00:22:32
Speaker
The swing arm, which is the part that holds the spindle, that is almost five feet.
00:22:43
Speaker
Wow.
00:22:43
Speaker
That arm, yeah.
00:22:46
Speaker
And when you swing, when the swing arm moves away from the wheel,
00:22:52
Speaker
And in the furthest position it can possibly go from the tip of that swing arm all the way to the end of the drive wheel is a little over 11 and a half feet.
00:23:05
Speaker
This is really, it's a room sized contraption.
00:23:08
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:23:09
Speaker
Why is it so big?
00:23:13
Speaker
So I believe it has a lot to do with the maker's idea.
00:23:20
Speaker
So the person that originally made this wheel believed that this design would make it so that anyone spinning on it, they would have more comfort by sitting down.
00:23:35
Speaker
But also having the capacity to spin at a longer distance.
00:23:43
Speaker
I feel as though there's less effort personally as a spinner, um, that you would have less effort with your spinning by allowing the wheel to assist with your, um, spinning, if you will.
00:23:56
Speaker
So I personally think, and this isn't set in stone, but I personally think that it was intended to be, um,
00:24:07
Speaker
easier for the spinner.
00:24:09
Speaker
Now, most, yeah.
00:24:12
Speaker
So there are other people.
00:24:13
Speaker
As long as the spinner has a large garage or warehouse for you to put it in.
00:24:18
Speaker
Or a barn.
00:24:20
Speaker
Or a barn.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much.
00:24:23
Speaker
And how old do you think it is?
00:24:26
Speaker
So I actually have more information about this wheel, which is kind of nice.
00:24:31
Speaker
I don't have the wheel from the original maker, but I'll tell you a little bit about the backstory about the one that I have.
00:24:39
Speaker
So you ready?
00:24:41
Speaker
You ready?
00:24:41
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:24:43
Speaker
All right.
00:24:44
Speaker
So the spinning wheel that I have is made by a person named Justin B. Waite.
00:24:52
Speaker
And he
00:24:54
Speaker
This guy originally lived in Massachusetts and moved to Wisconsin.
00:25:03
Speaker
And in his late 20s, he decided to purchase land.
00:25:08
Speaker
And that was in 1849.
00:25:11
Speaker
And then he started a company making handbrakes.
00:25:16
Speaker
This has nothing to do with wheels, but I know.
00:25:18
Speaker
Well, of all things.
00:25:21
Speaker
It gets better.
00:25:23
Speaker
So in 1862 was when he purchased rights for the production of a spinning wheel.
00:25:32
Speaker
But this particular wheel was already patented by a different person.
00:25:38
Speaker
So this one was made, the wheel that I have, the original patent was made or given to a guy named Lyman White.
00:25:49
Speaker
And Lyman White received his patent when he was in Pennsylvania.
00:25:54
Speaker
And then he moved to Wisconsin.
00:25:57
Speaker
And this is in 1856.
00:25:59
Speaker
So just, what is it, six years later is when Justin decided to purchase the rights.
00:26:06
Speaker
So he became the patent owner for the wheel that I have.
00:26:12
Speaker
So he made a ton of them.
00:26:16
Speaker
So these wheels are not as rare, although they are really unique looking.
00:26:24
Speaker
They were all that big.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:26
Speaker
So some of them had, um, smaller drive wheels.
00:26:30
Speaker
So mine has a really, really large one at 46, but some of them were a bit smaller than mine.
00:26:37
Speaker
Um, but yeah, they all, they were all that big.
00:26:40
Speaker
And, um,
00:26:42
Speaker
These wheels were made.
00:26:44
Speaker
He continued making these wheels in Wisconsin and he made so many of them.
00:26:47
Speaker
So they are not hard to find, but they are hard to find intact with all of the parts.
00:26:56
Speaker
And for mine, I actually had to restore the parts to get it to work and function the way that it does today.
00:27:06
Speaker
Well, I'm not surprised.
00:27:07
Speaker
I mean, I'm imagining in the 1860s, carting these things around on carts or wagon, you know, horse carts or wagons.
00:27:15
Speaker
I mean, you know, getting jostled around, getting stored in maybe less than ideal circumstances, a piece that large is going to be subject to so much stress and risk and turmoil.
00:27:31
Speaker
It's kind of amazing that any of them has survived.
00:27:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:27:35
Speaker
So I am really shocked when I see some of them for sale or at an estate sale or something like that, because I always hope that they are intact.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:50
Speaker
Because it's less work for the spinner.
00:27:53
Speaker
However, more times than not, I see these wheels missing their spindle.
00:27:59
Speaker
So the main point of having the wheel is to be able to spin on it.
00:28:03
Speaker
So not having the spindle is a really, really crucial part to the wheel.
00:28:11
Speaker
But also sometimes they are missing their treadle or they are completely missing the swing arm, which is
00:28:19
Speaker
holds the spindle.
00:28:21
Speaker
So, um, trying to restore them, um, can be a bit troublesome, uh, for most because most spinners aren't in the business of restoring.
00:28:31
Speaker
So they just want to spin on the wheel as opposed to, you know, put a lot of work and effort into finding, um, parts for them or finding someone that actually will, um, do the work to restore it.
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:51
Speaker
Talk to me for a minute about- It's interesting.
00:28:53
Speaker
It is.
00:28:53
Speaker
It's super interesting.
00:28:54
Speaker
And one of the cool things about the spinning wheel is how it really dovetails with so many elements of cultural and social and political history.
Cultural and Economic Significance of Spinning Wheels
00:29:07
Speaker
I mean, spinning wheels have been an important element of political protests, right?
00:29:13
Speaker
Like I think about Gandhi famously spinning-
00:29:18
Speaker
yarn in order to show this reduced dependence on British industry, right?
00:29:25
Speaker
Or even in early America.
00:29:27
Speaker
Talk to me a little about the cultural significance and symbolism of the spinning wheel.
00:29:34
Speaker
So with the spinning wheel, each spinning wheel, I find, because I have a ton of them,
00:29:42
Speaker
I find that they have their own charm to them.
00:29:45
Speaker
And I really, I feel as though if I could put myself in the maker's shoes as I evaluate wheels and assess them for others, a lot of times I'm trying to picture in my mind
00:30:01
Speaker
Why would a maker decide to make the wheel this particular way?
00:30:06
Speaker
Or what makes this distinct or special?
00:30:14
Speaker
So many, there's so many answers to that question.
00:30:20
Speaker
And I, I find that the makers took a lot of pride in their work.
00:30:27
Speaker
When I look at the antiques, it, in some cases, you really see intricate workmanship and craftsmanship that's,
00:30:41
Speaker
with these wheels, but also the fixes that came later on, the different repairs that were done in order for people to
00:30:52
Speaker
preserve their wheels so that they can continue to produce the linen that they want for their family.
00:31:01
Speaker
So spinning their flax, most of the older wheels were referred to as flax wheels because of their ability to spin flax.
00:31:13
Speaker
flex into linen.
00:31:14
Speaker
And thinking of these wheels as a really important part of a household is another perspective that I feel sometimes we lose being where we are today, that this was such a significant, you know, spinning wheels were such a
00:31:35
Speaker
a significant part of everyday life for so many households.
00:31:40
Speaker
And the ways that people try to preserve their wheels, whether they used found objects, things that were nearby, just to make sure that thing was still functioning for their home and for their household.
00:31:55
Speaker
It's pretty awesome to think about.
00:31:58
Speaker
And then just thinking of how, um,
00:32:02
Speaker
different communities of people coming from
00:32:07
Speaker
different parts of the world bringing their wheels over to the U.S. and even bringing it to, you know, closer to the Midwest here.
00:32:15
Speaker
Just seeing that they treasured it so much and they tried to keep it, you know, intact when they traveled.
00:32:22
Speaker
And to me, it says a lot about how important this was for them.
00:32:28
Speaker
And it wasn't just something they wanted to leave behind, but they wanted to make sure they...
00:32:33
Speaker
left something for their descendants.
00:32:37
Speaker
So people that
00:32:39
Speaker
would come after them.
00:32:40
Speaker
They would have something that's part of the family.
00:32:43
Speaker
So I find that spinning wheels have way more importance than we tend to think sometimes.
00:32:50
Speaker
It's almost like we have a throwaway culture with a lot of things.
00:32:55
Speaker
And I just find that looking at these spinning wheels and then looking into some of the history, some of the craftsmanship, all
00:33:04
Speaker
a myriad of things, it makes me really appreciate the hard work that others have put into these, the making of them as well as preserving them.
00:33:17
Speaker
And so that also led me into the idea of wanting to repair and also restore them so that they can function really well, but not take away from the history behind them.
00:33:30
Speaker
because these were so important to the people that lived before us.
00:33:35
Speaker
So I find that it's really, really, really incredible, actually, these spinning wheels.
00:33:45
Speaker
Would it be right to say that in the pre-industrial period and maybe even into the industrial period that spinning wheels could be a really critical economic engine for a household?
00:33:59
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:34:01
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:34:02
Speaker
I believe that is not an inaccurate statement, um, at all.
00:34:08
Speaker
Um,
00:34:10
Speaker
I think of the economic value of textiles in the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries when the labor that went into the production of the raw materials and then of course weaving and sewing was extraordinary.
00:34:32
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:34:33
Speaker
With how we live now with so many things being mass produced and easily made overnight, sometimes it removes us from the idea that you actually had people that would start from sheep's wool.
00:34:56
Speaker
And would clean it and allow it to dry and then cart it and then spin it and then go through the entire process of, you know, the raw material to a finished object for the household and doing it as a routine.
00:35:15
Speaker
Like it's part of their lifestyle.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, it really puts a lot of things into perspective.
00:35:23
Speaker
And it's nice that people are starting to open up to spinning more and also appreciating it more.
00:35:32
Speaker
I find that when I do demonstrations and also when I teach and talk to people about spinning and things like that, they want to know more.
00:35:44
Speaker
And then when you share more, they are kind of...
00:35:48
Speaker
Um, I don't know, they kind of like have the jaw dropping, you know, reaction.
00:35:55
Speaker
Um, when we talk about history, especially when you talk to little kids, yeah, their eyes open up.
00:36:02
Speaker
They're like, what that came from that?
00:36:06
Speaker
My clothes?
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:06
Speaker
So I find that it's really helpful to, um,
00:36:15
Speaker
to sometimes take a step back and look at things from a different timeframe and say, well, if I were alive, you know, 300 years ago, how would I, how would I get through day-to-day life?
00:36:29
Speaker
Like, what would this look like?
00:36:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's really cool.
00:36:33
Speaker
So I mean, this is, I love this whole genre of object because it's the perfect kind of example of a piece that calls our minds back to another time, that makes us think about a different way of life, that makes us think about people who were in so many ways so similar to us, but because of differences in their circumstances,
00:36:59
Speaker
their lives ended up looking really different
Antiques as Historical Connectors
00:37:02
Speaker
from ours.
00:37:02
Speaker
And that to me is the magic of antiques, really.
00:37:07
Speaker
And that's, I think, a big part of what drives collectors around all different categories of antique objects.
00:37:15
Speaker
So I'm curious, would you say there's a robust collecting community or market around antiques?
00:37:24
Speaker
I keep saying sewing wheels.
00:37:26
Speaker
Around antique spinning wheels.
00:37:30
Speaker
I would say that that is growing for sure.
00:37:34
Speaker
And I find that I would say having...
00:37:45
Speaker
interviews like this or, um, different ways for people to know more about, uh, the different wheels and things.
00:37:56
Speaker
It really opens people's minds to wanting to quote unquote, save a wheel.
00:38:05
Speaker
And, um,
00:38:07
Speaker
I, yeah, I, I personally feel as though, as though, um, I personally feel as though this has expanded quite a bit.
00:38:18
Speaker
I've done a few interviews in the past about, um, my collection of wheels and I've done a few presentation on the history of, um, several wheels in my
00:38:31
Speaker
current collection.
00:38:32
Speaker
And I find after those types of presentations, more people want to do the same thing.
00:38:40
Speaker
They want to find ways to save a wheel that might be located near them, or they'll look online for auctions and things like that.
00:38:52
Speaker
And
00:38:53
Speaker
I think the idea isn't just, I want to acquire more, but really I want to have a piece of history that I could actually use and find more about this, you know, find out more about this particular wheel.
00:39:10
Speaker
So I think that, um,
00:39:14
Speaker
Having some of these discussions definitely has opened the door for more people to consider the history of these older wheels.
00:39:25
Speaker
Because nowadays we have some groups of spinners feel as though you don't really want to look into older wheels.
00:39:36
Speaker
They're harder to use, they're harder to learn on.
00:39:41
Speaker
There are, you know, a long list of reasons why you might not want to get an older wheel.
00:39:48
Speaker
But then the wheels that are currently available that are modern wheels, there's nothing wrong with them.
00:39:56
Speaker
Even some of the vintage wheels, there are nothing wrong with those wheels, but they cost...
00:40:04
Speaker
So much.
00:40:05
Speaker
So someone trying to get into spinning will have to really invest a ton of money into like several hundreds of dollars into equipment just to see if they like it and see if they're interested.
00:40:23
Speaker
Whereas,
00:40:25
Speaker
Having an older wheel nearby that might need a bit of work and you might need someone to help you get started and know what to look for.
00:40:35
Speaker
It would be a lower cost, but of course it would have some work involved.
00:40:40
Speaker
And for some that could be frustrating.
00:40:43
Speaker
So you have...
00:40:45
Speaker
I find that in our community, for the Five R's community, you have varying opinions on antiques and things, and it just depends on which side you're on.
00:40:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:58
Speaker
That's fair.
Future Aspirations and Community Building
00:40:59
Speaker
Although I have to note that your own collection of spinning wheels, including antique ones, is so extensive.
00:41:08
Speaker
It's really incredible.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
I have a lot of wheels.
00:41:16
Speaker
How many do you have?
00:41:19
Speaker
This is like the number one question I get no matter where I go.
00:41:25
Speaker
And my favorite answer.
00:41:26
Speaker
So I'm going to tell you my favorite answer.
00:41:28
Speaker
And this is the truest answer I can give you because I'm trying to keep track of all the wheels.
00:41:36
Speaker
I currently have under 50 as in five zero wheels.
00:41:43
Speaker
Wow.
00:41:43
Speaker
Just under 50.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah, I recently, I know, I'm waiting for it.
00:41:52
Speaker
That's incredible.
00:41:53
Speaker
I mean, it's awesome.
00:41:55
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:41:56
Speaker
I, you know, that's, that's a real collection.
00:42:01
Speaker
It is a real collection and it always starts with one and then, you know, it grows.
00:42:08
Speaker
So the idea I have behind the wheels is to one day have a spinning wheel gallery.
00:42:16
Speaker
I considered a museum for spinning wheels, but I am leaning towards a gallery and I want to have a way to, um,
00:42:29
Speaker
display the wheels that I have already restored.
00:42:32
Speaker
A lot of the ones that I have rescued in the most recent years, those need a ton of work.
00:42:41
Speaker
So the restoration work for some of them is quite extensive.
00:42:48
Speaker
So it will take some time to get them, you know, all nice and shiny and ready to go.
00:42:55
Speaker
But my goal with them is to have them all fixed and working and learn as much as possible about each individual wheel.
00:43:06
Speaker
And the challenge is,
00:43:08
Speaker
that I have with some of the history behind the wheels and so many other spinners have this issue as well, is the mystery of the maker.
00:43:26
Speaker
Some of the wheels don't have any identifying marks that will give you an idea of who actually made the wheel.
00:43:37
Speaker
A lot of times we're looking at the style of wheel or the design of the wheel to get some sort of connection to a particular maker.
00:43:50
Speaker
If it's a well-known design, there are communities online that...
00:43:56
Speaker
where you can share pictures of your wheel and ask questions and say, hey, has anyone seen anything like this?
00:44:03
Speaker
This is what I recently acquired.
00:44:05
Speaker
And see if anyone else has some information about their wheel that can possibly give you more information about the one that you have.
00:44:16
Speaker
The other issue besides that, the mystery is that there are so many woodworkers around.
00:44:25
Speaker
Since the making of a particular wheel.
00:44:29
Speaker
So sometimes you might think that you have a wheel that is an original, but it could be a copy of what someone else did.
00:44:39
Speaker
And so...
00:44:42
Speaker
In that case, you have to be really careful to not declare that this is a wheel made by so-and-so because it might not be.
00:44:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:55
Speaker
So it gets a little tricky trying to identify things that are not clearly marked or anything that doesn't have a good record where you can actually go back and look and see information about it.
00:45:09
Speaker
So
00:45:10
Speaker
We often will have to, so people that do research with spinning wheels will have to look into the
00:45:18
Speaker
ancestry records, just so many things to find out how old the wheel could possibly be based off of the makers born in death, you know, that date and seeing if they had, you know, an apprentice or, you know, if it was a family business, you know, all those kinds of things.
00:45:43
Speaker
are part of the research.
00:45:45
Speaker
And I find it to be fun, but at times it can be challenging because you feel like you have a wall.
00:45:50
Speaker
You're like, okay, I got this far, but where do we go from here?
00:45:56
Speaker
So yeah, it gets really interesting.
00:45:59
Speaker
Totally.
00:46:01
Speaker
So for listeners who are feeling curious and maybe want to connect with you or find other communities or sources of knowledge and information about spinning wheels, where would you recommend they look?
00:46:17
Speaker
All right.
00:46:18
Speaker
If they want to connect with me, they could find me on a few of the social media platforms.
00:46:26
Speaker
One would be Instagram.
00:46:28
Speaker
And my handle is heavenlyknitshe.
00:46:32
Speaker
And it's spelled H-E-A-V-E-N-L-Y.
00:46:38
Speaker
And the other half is K-N-I-T-C-H-E-T.
00:46:42
Speaker
So that is Heavenly Knit Shea.
00:46:45
Speaker
And if you want to connect with a community of other spinning wheel collectors, which I highly recommend if you have, let's say you found a wheel and you're not quite sure what it is and you want to see if other people might have a similar wheel or may have more information for you,
00:47:08
Speaker
you can go to a website.
00:47:11
Speaker
It's called Ravelry.com and it's spelled R-A-V-E-L-R-Y.com.
00:47:21
Speaker
And on that website, it's a knitting, crochet, spinning, and weaving community.
00:47:28
Speaker
But there is a section where you can join a forum and the forum is called Antique Spinning Wheels.
00:47:37
Speaker
In that forum, you can post pictures and ask questions.
00:47:43
Speaker
You can also search and see if you can find information about the wheel that you may have.
00:47:51
Speaker
And then let's see other resources.
00:47:54
Speaker
There is another group on Facebook.
00:47:58
Speaker
It is also called Antique Spinning Wheels.
00:48:02
Speaker
You can join that group and you can also share information.
00:48:07
Speaker
your pictures and ask questions and you should be able to search the group.
00:48:13
Speaker
I believe it's a public group, not a private one.
00:48:17
Speaker
So you should be able to search in there and see if you can find more information about your wheel there as well.
00:48:22
Speaker
Fabulous.
00:48:25
Speaker
Heavenly Bresser, thanks so much for joining me and sharing the wonderful world of spinning wheels with us.
00:48:34
Speaker
You are so welcome.
00:48:36
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
00:48:37
Speaker
This was so much fun.
00:48:40
Speaker
Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support from Sarah Bellotta.
00:48:45
Speaker
Sarah Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
00:48:49
Speaker
Our music is by Trap Rabbit and I'm Ben Miller.