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Claire Maxted
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In this episode, we dive into the world of ultra running with Claire Maxted. Claire is the co-founder and former editor of Trail Running magazine, the creator of the popular YouTube channel Wild Ginger Running, and the author of the must-read guide for aspiring ultra runners, The Ultimate Ultra Running Handbook.
We explore Claires insights on what it takes to become a confident ultra runner, common mistakes to avoid, and the inspiration behind her journey.
Enjoy!
Wild Ginger Running You Tube
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Transcript
Claire Max Ted: Introduction and Achievements
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to today's episode of UK Run Chat podcast, where we dive into the world of ultra running with Claire Max Ted. Claire's the co-founder and former editor of Trail Running Magazine, the creator of popular YouTube channel Wild Ginger Running, and the author of her latest book, The Ultimate Ultra Running Handbook. and
Insights from The Ultimate Ultra Running Handbook
00:00:18
Speaker
So from training tips, gear advice to navigating the toughest terrains and pushing through mental barriers, Claire's book is a brilliant resource for anyone looking to take on and the challenge of their first ultra.
00:00:30
Speaker
or looking to expand their distances and learn more. So welcome Claire, thanks for joining us.
Claire's Unlikely Journey into Ultra Running
00:00:37
Speaker
Hello, lovely to be here. Ultra running, we were just chatting before we recorded, weren't we? But it can feel very scary for people looking to do their first one. and I mean, tell us about your own introduction to trail running and ultra running. How did you get into it?
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm a really unlikely can candidate for ultra running because I actually hated running um at school. I developed a phobia of running actually because at school, I don't know if it's still like this now, but it was always really competitive either in the boiling heat of summer or the freezing cold of winter, um always with the threat of just doing it in your pants if you forgot your PE kit or, you know, back in the day.
00:01:19
Speaker
And so um i I actually hated running because it was always just flat out, round a track or crosscut house cross country. And it just was really unenjoyable. And actually at school, I really got into long distance hiking. And that's just because there was this group of teachers, really lovely teachers, some of whom I'm still sort of friends with today. I babysat for some of their kids while I was at school.
00:01:41
Speaker
and they took us on these hikes like in Wales um and it was called the challenge walk and it was every year and we did either 50 miles over two days or 35 or so miles in one day and it was always following some kind of long distance path I can't really remember what they were because we just sort of just point you and go at that age, don't you? We did that from a group of us from my year, we did that from ah age 12 upwards, and it's only now looking back that I realised what an amazing achievement that actually was.
00:02:11
Speaker
um And I think that set me up for the sort of long distance part of ultra running. And as I'm sure we'll get to throughout the podcast, there's a lot of walking involved in ultra running. So I think if you're feeling scared about it, reframe it as a long hike. And
Overcoming Running Challenges and Strategies for 50k Ultras
00:02:28
Speaker
and that's all it is really, as long as you've got generous cutoff times.
00:02:31
Speaker
So yeah so my I started running actually when I got to uni I just drank a bit too much beer and I found myself putting on a bit of weight and I thought what is the quickest way to burn some calories and I'd always hated running as I said so I started doing it and I sort of forced myself to do it a bit like you know if you've got um a fear of spiders they introduce you to tiny spiders then bigger and bigger spiders So I forced myself to just do 20 minutes breathing through my nose only so that I could ah go really slowly. Not like at school when you just went hell for leather. And did that. And then I always used to get really nervous if I was planning to run that day. But the more I did it, the more the nerves just sort of faded away. and And I realized that running wasn't just flat out running. It was also jogging. And it was also you were allowed to walk. And the finding trail running was just a joy because
00:03:23
Speaker
it's kind of combined my love of hiking with my new sort of not really love of running but you know it burns some calories and and makes you not fat anymore. um So yeah I just found it that way really.
00:03:38
Speaker
and And it's funny you say that, but you can include a lot of walking. So, I mean, over say, for example, let's start with a 50k ultra, like how much of that would you be walking roughly? What would your strategy be? Well, it really depends what you choose. So if you, if you had a really flat one, 50k flat ultra,
00:03:57
Speaker
um That's like 31 miles. You can quite conceivably run that um ah just as you would a marathon. It's just only a few miles more than the marathon, isn't it? But if you choose one in a really more exciting, like to me, that's more exciting to choose in a hilly, rocky place. It could take you eight hours.
00:04:13
Speaker
um And a lot of that could be walking if you're walking over really rocky terrain, really steep terrain. um So it's absolutely up to the race and and um and you your sort of own skill level when it comes to the more rocky terrain as to whether you run or walk. um So yeah, it just really depends on the actual race, whether you run a lot or walk a lot um and you've just got to bear the cutoff times in mind. um Yeah.
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, so would you kind of go in with a strategy on knowing the terrain? Would you say I'm going to walk for so long and then run? Or would you, for example, like which do what walk the hills?
Using Poles in Ultra Running: Benefits and Tips
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So ah most people doing ultra running would use the strategy of walk up the hills, jog on the flat bits and jog a little bit faster on the on the downhill bits. If it's really steep downhill, you'd be back to walking again. But yeah, most people would walk the uphills and they they'd often take poles as well to help them with the walking uphill. Yeah yeah so let's, you've mentioned poles there and that is later in my list so let's talk about those now so I've never used reading poles before so talk us through why they're useful for people in an ultra race and how to best use them. Yeah so they are really useful
00:05:28
Speaker
um because they keep your body upright so your lungs are more open, your chest is more expanded um and it's it's kind of like having four legs so you can push down on them as well and you can just power yourself along a bit better and it takes the pressure off your knees and your joints as well. I've really found that it's helped using them on longer races just for the, you know, like if you get achy hips and achy knees and that's really really helpful also helps with the ankle joints as well. They do take a little bit of practice because obviously you're using your upper body a lot more than you're used to maybe um and you can sort of trip over them and and if you're using them on tricky terrain or really narrow footpaths you can sort of it can they can be a bit too much more trouble than they're worth like to place them all the time and to be thinking about four places to
00:06:14
Speaker
put your feet rather than just the two. um So yeah it can vary and and that's why you should always get a lightweight pair that you can fold up really easily and just put in your pack um or like secure to the elastic bungees outside your pack and practice doing that on your training runs as well just because sometimes you might have to put them away and then sometimes there's a really long big uphill section you just get them out and and use them for that and power away. Yeah so how easy are they to kind of pack away and get out if you need them quickly?
00:06:43
Speaker
And they're fairly, it's fairly easy to do that. If you've got a pack where you can stow them easily. I had this amazing raid light pack once, which stowed them across the top. Like there was two bits of elastic on your shoulder straps, just at the front of the shoulder straps. And you just really easily just loop them in there. um Like where your brass straps would go. And that was a really great place to hold poles. Very accessible.
00:07:07
Speaker
You did look a bit like a dog carrying a big stick but and it was a really handy place. Other backpacks you just have to be aware of where those bungees are because some of them put them across the the back like in a sort of a diagonal way and you can't really do that on the move very well.
00:07:23
Speaker
Other packs have a sort of a quiver design, you might have seen some some of these like crows and the salmon quiver system and it's just like a bow and arrow and you just shove it back in. That takes a little bit of time as well because you need to like locate it but obviously with practice that's fine. And then there's other ways to sew them um across the the back as well and then down both shoulders as well. I find that one a little bit annoying because you've basically got two sharp points just where your hands are moving up and down.
00:07:48
Speaker
then and you can also a lot of people nowadays they get um a waist belt as well and they secure them to there and that's quite good because you've got the bungees you can just swivel it round put them through the bungees at the front and then swivel them back again and they just on your back and you can tighten them down so they don't bash around so there's loads of different ways to carry the poles um but to be honest once I've got my poles out on a race I usually to actually just start with them out to be honest I just sort of use them the whole way and I just sort of trail trail them along quite nicely and happily when ah when I'm walking. But
Essential Gear for Ultra Running
00:08:22
Speaker
it's not rocket science. I know there's a lot of courses for using poles, but i i've I've been on courses because of being a journalist, but I've not really ever, it's not rocket science. You just, it's just use them naturally. When one leg's down, the other pole's down. I mean, you can't really do it wrong because you'd just be totally out of rhythm. So I'd say to anyone just just grab a pair, get borrow a pair from a friend and just go on a little jog with them. It's just like walking with poles. So start off walking and then go for a little jog and see where it takes you. Yeah. Is there a particular brand you'd recommend or are they all pretty much similar? If you want a super, super lightweight um pair, Mountain King are very good. They're really light, but you can't put your full body weight on them. And so if you did that, like by accident, you might break them. I have done that in the past and I've
00:09:12
Speaker
secured them with gaffer tape for the rest of the race which does work actually. um But I've been using the Harrier um gear a lot and those poles they're only £89 per pair so if you're beginning ultra running that can be a really good buy because a lot of the other poles are about 130 quid that kind of region. um I've used some silver poles before they've just started making poles they're very good. Compadella are also so good as well um And yeah, I think that's, yeah, everybody um on the poll area, I can think of. No, that's a good start then. and So while we're on kit, what essential kit items does somebody need if they're looking at doing the first ultra then? What would you recommend apart from maybe polls?
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, definitely a little backpack. So you'd be carrying a bit of food and some definitely some water and you want some extra gears, you want your waterproof jacket, you want your first day kit in there and they usually put a mandatory kit, a survival bag as well.
00:10:13
Speaker
um and a little, probably a little mascot thing that you can click to the outside of your pack. And yeah, so a little backpack, I'd say if you're only going to wipe buy one backpack, I would go for a 10 litre backpack because you can fit enough kit for Um, just about for a winter race in there as well. And plenty for the summer where you don't need quite as many layers and bits of safety equipment. Um, so I'd go 10 liters rather than five, because you can always put less in. And usually they have some kind of bungee system on the back that you can sort of batten it down. So it doesn't all jump around in there. Um, I'd go for a vest type, uh, uh, backpack rather than, you know, you get ones which, which, um, sort of all sizes.
00:10:56
Speaker
where you've got straps around the waist area that cinch it in. That basically is the a waste of a good pocket. You want a little waistcoat type design where it's stretchy all the way around and you've got pockets just under your arm area and ah so that so that there's no wasted pocket there. So you will need to take a few measurements for that because they come in like anything from extra small to extra large for those. So um yeah, just be aware that you might have to measure yourself um and you might have to, if you want to really get the right size, buy both sizes that you think you might be, um have them delivered to your house or buy them from the shop or whatever, or take all your stuff to the shop, fill the bag with everything you're going to take with you on that race, like get your mandatory kit all sorted and then put it on, because it's very, very different putting a pack on with nothing in, obviously they'll all fit, but you just want to be like running up and down the stairs of your house, running around the living room or running around the shop,
00:11:53
Speaker
trying trying it on with all your stuff in because um you'll know then whether it's comfy or not on you. Yeah, and it needs to be covered because you've got to wear it for a long time. Yeah, you've got a long long way to go. Yeah, but even if it's not, there's various things you can do, like, and you know, the K-tape that you run as you use a lot on the calves and and knees and things like that, you can put areas of like bits of K-tape under certain bits, which you find a chafing, you can get a t-shirt, which is, you know, the t-shirts have got a little collar, like a zip and a small collar, that often helps with the backpack if it's sort of running rubbing around the neck area. Yeah, and so yeah, and even across the back, if if it starts to chafe just below, at the lower back area than just put a bit of K tape across there um and you're basically sorted. So yeah, that's where all your training runs come in to check that everything's not going to chase you over those long distances.
00:12:40
Speaker
Yeah, so what's what's in your pack generally then, Claire? Snacks, obviously. Yeah, obviously snacks, yeah. Although on some races, if they're really well supported, you can just go with a couple of emergency snacks and a little ziplock bag and you just basically steal all the food from the checkpoint and munch it as you go along. and But in my backpack would be usually, and I ah like to say that I always take a first aid kit, even if I'm just doing a training run, I will often take a first aid kit definitely on a race, it's part of a mandatory kit.
00:13:10
Speaker
But it's not this first day kit, it's not just for you, it's for you know, you might come across somebody like over in a mountain bike that's fallen off and ah need to tend to them. So first day kit, definitely survival bag, not blanket, because you can probably get in a bag, you don't have to hold it around you and it's flapping around, not keeping any hot air in at all.
00:13:30
Speaker
So those are the two safety bits that I'd put in. The bags usually come nowadays with a whistle on the chest strap, so you don't have to worry about putting a whistle in there, but just check. There's usually one on the chest strap. And then i'd I'd always take waterproof trousers, just because they keep you warm. Even if it's not raining, they're good for stopping the wind. And I'd take maybe an extra layer, like um either a long sleeve base layer, if it's sort of summery, or um I've got this really nice Berghouse Hypotherm that they don't make anymore, which is really annoying,
00:13:59
Speaker
um So I can't recommend it because they don't make it anymore, but it's a very thin synthetic insulated layer. So it's not a down jacket, but it's like a very thin version of a down jacket like that. And it just crunches up super smart. It's really good. And then a waterproof as well. So the other thing with the waterproof that I would recommend for ultra runners is if you take, if you go to a shop to try on your waterproof and select the right one, take your bag packed full of stuff and then see if you can try on the waterproof all over the top of that bag because some days they're really on off and you just think oh I can't keep taking this
00:14:36
Speaker
bag off and putting the waterproof on and then taking the bag off so sometimes I put the waterproof on over the top of the bag and you'll see people do it in races and you do look like a bit of a hunchback but is a really good it's a really good way of just keeping your temperature regulated more easily and then when you take it off again you can just shove it through the the shoulder strap under your arm and carry it that way so I would always go for a jacket at least one size bigger just knowing that that's what I might do with it and you want to be able to fit stuff under it as well you know like if you go out in the evening and you want to put your down jacket on under it that kind of thing so yeah that's all that's in my bag apart from probably some bottles of water um obviously some bottles of water 500 milliliters up front in soft bottles and then some snacks yeah thats that so you're not carrying much really are you for a long run
00:15:27
Speaker
No, I mean, it doesn't really differ from going out for a half marathon on the trails, really. any The only times when it really differs is like if people are doing stuff like the spine race, you know, in in the depths of winter, then they have to carry all sorts of all sorts of things like they've got to carry a bivvy bag. um I think they have to carry like a full change of long sleeve clothes and they've got to a got a tracker as well and all sorts of things to carry. and And maybe also if you're venturing into the wintery mountains, you've got like those little lightweight crampons and stuff. If it's icy, you just put them on your feet and kind of claw yourself along. So yeah, um yeah you might sometimes luxury items could be like a spare pair of socks. I've done that on ultras before.
Strength Training and Integrating Hiking into Ultra Training
00:16:10
Speaker
um Also gloves and hats, obviously, I forgot that. in It's summer now and it's really hot, so I'm not thinking along those lines. But yeah, I um i definitely would carry gloves and hat um and a buff as well just to keep warm. Yeah, and we'll multi-use those things out there as well, the greater hot days as well for kind of wiping the sweat off my face.
00:16:33
Speaker
yeah So talk us through your book then, because there's so much in there. There's literally everything you could ever want to know about ultra running. Oh good. I don't need to do it once then. Yeah, so there's loads of training plans in there. There's, you know, tips on how to choose your first ultra. There's loads of strength training in there as well. So very important. Yeah, I mean, so Talk us through then, what what do you think is the most common thing that people new to ultra-running overlook? What should they be focusing on?
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, probably strength training. um um Yeah, I think a lot of people focus on the actual running fitness. And I know in the past, I have come a cropper training for ultras by just running. And I live in a not very hilly place. And and so I would, for Cape Wrath Ultra, I trained, I did like 20 mile runs. And then when I got to the Cape Wrath Ultra, it's a multi day ultra. And the longest day is about, I don't know, 45 miles or something like that.
00:17:42
Speaker
which is a really long day in itself and it's like day three of an eight day race. And I realized that I hadn't done enough hiking training for this ultra. And I think a lot of people think ultra running, it's sort of misbranded really, it should be called ultra hiking to be honest, but because if you're in the middle to the back of the pack, like me, and and most of the people that are doing ultra running, you're not actually running a lot. I know the elites and the the people um in the you know the top 50 or so, they'll be running.
00:18:13
Speaker
Excuse me. But if you're a normal, normal person, inverted commas like me, you'll be doing a lot of hiking. um And so, um, Jasmine Paris, a mate of amazing Barkley marathon fame and spine race outright record holder until very recently says she likes to do these two week hikes at altitude, um, camping hikes where she carries everything on her back. So she probably got like, I don't know, 10 to 15 kilograms on her back and they just hike for like 12 days.
00:18:41
Speaker
And that's given her a lot of strength and a lot of endurance for all these long distance things that she's done, especially the multi-day ones. So I'd say hike as much as you can. and And you can sort of build that. Some people can build this into their normal lives. So, um, if you've got a commute, get off a stop early or try to do a run or walk commute and just put a bit more on your backpack. Like the way that I found to overload my backpack is to carry extra water bottles, because then if you are feeling tired, you can just tip them away.
00:19:10
Speaker
and you're not losing anything you don't have to ditch stuff by the trails and you're carrying something that is actually useful should you actually need it. Like I have have done training carrying bags full of concrete and bricks and things like that but like it's just less useful so packing a big bag with a tent or something that you know if you came across it would actually be a useful thing.
00:19:30
Speaker
um So yeah, you can you can train train um train like that as well. And now I forgot what your question was. What was it? It's about strength training. so So instantly, when you said strength training, my mind went to, oh, let's do some weights in the gym. But it's not actually, is it? It's just... it's put in more more kind of weight on your body. For example, I guess go and do your weekly shop. but Yeah. well with it couldn't ah yes Yeah, you could yeah that and that is strength training but I do also in the book put some routines in for actual strength work as you might know it like strength and conditioning and especially as you hit your 40s like I've recently turned 40
00:20:11
Speaker
And I've just suddenly thought, oh my goodness, I'm not recovering in the same way. I'm not being just able to just, oh, I can just get fit and do that now. I've got a kid as well. He's quite young. It's quite hard to find the time for anything.
00:20:22
Speaker
So strength training is going to be my new secret weapon.
Advice for Women in Ultra Running
00:20:26
Speaker
I'm forcing myself to do it now. And in the book, there is some strength through routines as well. and There's a bit of plyometrics in there, which is so useful for ultra running, because what is ultra running, but leaping from foot to foot in as fast a manner as you can muster. And you can, yeah, even if you just did 10 minutes a day of strength training, even if it's as simple as just doing some squats, some lunges, some press ups, some sit ups, and um some just,
00:20:52
Speaker
get some weights involved. If you've got weights, you can even fill a couple of shopping bags with flour from your cupboards, like flour, pittance of beans, things like that, and do squats and then just holding those carrier bags. It's probably easier to just use a weighted backpack, but you don't need much and to get going with strength training. um But yeah, it's the thing that all runners leave out and for good reason, it's very boring. If you can, go to a class.
00:21:19
Speaker
where someone's shouting at you and everybody around you is doing it and that it makes it a lot more fun. Yeah, no, that's a good tip. So what about, have you got any specific training advice for women? Is it, you know, does ultra training affect women differently or anything you'd recommend?
00:21:37
Speaker
Yeah, we've got a whole section on being a woman in the book, and it says, and it's helpful for men to read this too. um But yeah, there's a lot of, there's not a lot of research done, which is really, really sad. um And there is a great book, I recommend Raw by Stacy ah Stacy Sims, so the Dr. Stacy Sims. that is a That's a much better book if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of how to train as a woman. um Because there's just things women need, like more protein and things like that around certain times. But if you ah but basically, um if you're a woman that has periods, then it's a good idea to just
00:22:16
Speaker
work out how you personally feel around those times. So track it using an app or a diary entry, things like that. And just see how you feel and see when you're able to push and when you're not able to push because the annoying thing is you can't just say, oh, this is the blanket rule for all women because but so women are so different. I mean, some people would train really well on their periods and some people have to hide in a hole. So you have to know your own body as a woman. um And I think that's the most powerful tool you can own.
00:22:45
Speaker
um knowing when to push yourself and and when to just rein it in and and not beat yourself up about it as well. I think we do a good job of that anyway as women and we can do it all do a bit less of that. So yeah there's stuff about being a woman there, there's stuff about like having pregnancies, having miscarriages, having abortions and you know when I had my miscarriage I was following a couple of books about pregnancy and running and And as soon as I had the miscarriage, it was like bookshop, like nothing deals with that. Like there's a paragraph if that. So I just wanted to make sure that space was open for women that have gone through those experiences.
00:23:19
Speaker
And then also the menopause, we're talking about that a lot more these days, which is great and yeah absolutely should be talked about all the time. I'm not currently, I don't think going through any kind of perimenopause yet but I wanted to put that in there obviously because the book's for everybody. um But I just think that's a really important area to look at and if anyone wants more information about running and the par and the perimenopause and the menopause there's books in books that I recommend in there um and also Juliette McGrattan as well she's a running GP and she's um she talks about the menopause as well so so get involved with her as well if you've got any questions on there but it does cover it and a little bit in the book just you know about
00:24:00
Speaker
all the the symptoms that you usually associate associate with that like the hot flashes that not everybody gets but um and there's a few stories as well like reader stories about um women who have not been affected at all by menopause and then some women have been really affected so it just really depends who you are and if you get lucky or not.
Choosing Your First Ultra Race
00:24:20
Speaker
Well yeah and and I guess the important thing is to kind of talk about it isn't it the more we talk about it the more we learn what's normal and you know Everyone has a different experience, don't they, as well? Yeah, and the more we talk about it, the less taboo it becomes. I don't really understand why it was a taboo in the first place, but it's great that everybody's talking about it. Yeah, it's brilliant. I love hearing about it. I think I'll probably bring it up in most podcasts actually, so I'm glad that you brought it up first. Good to see you. So talk us through then choosing your first ultra. What was your first ultra?
00:24:54
Speaker
Oh, oh, do you know what? I do know this. It was it was many moons ago, I think. Oh, goodness me. It was about 10 years ago now, was it?
00:25:05
Speaker
it was just before I did the Bob Graham round which is the 42 peaks in the Lake District and so I was training from that and I went from doing a 15 miler endurance life race in around Anglesey or Wales or somewhere um and then I did 21 miles around the Edale skyline that wasn't the race just a recce and then I did a 38 miler which was the Tour de Helvelin and that was my first ultra um and I was just on such a high after finishing it because I think I finished at like 10 at night and it was dark and we were all running there was a little group of us and we were all like really hurting but like actually running the last few miles because it was a really horrible night um and it was quite a hardcore one. you like You had to navigate and there was no map and you couldn't use GPX at that time. It was many years ago before everyone started using GPX
00:25:57
Speaker
um and watches for navigation. And I just remember being so thrilled that I'd done it, like 38 miles. That's me that was ah that's amazing. like I hadn't even done a marathon. i but i haven't even done it I still haven't done a road marathon, far too much like hard work. and And it was just incredible to just go around Helvellyn. It was on the 19th of December as well, so it was kind of sun snowy and really cold. but Yeah, a bit of in at the deep end, really. um Yeah, that must have been some elevation as well, actually. Yeah, yeah, well, in terms of the running side of it, it was ah it was in at the deep end, but because I was a hiker before that, and, you know, ah I can possibly navigate a little, but I can navigate enough not to, well, actually, that I don't know, my navigations go aren't great, but I can navigate enough to sort of navigate myself around the Lake District a little bit. um And yeah, so it was like a long walk, but with
00:26:54
Speaker
running whenever you could in it, running down the hills. And I just really loved it and ah just thought it was great. And then I did the Lakes 42, which was a similar route by the same organizer, um Joe from nafor now for adventure. He runs navigation courses, highly recommended. And yeah, just um then did the Bob Graham in the May.
00:27:14
Speaker
um I did the Bob Graham, um which is, it's a really classic route. Lots of people may have heard of it. um So i I need to say that I'm not in the Bob Graham club. I did it in 26 and a half hours. You're supposed to do it in 24, but I still did it all in one go.
The Joys and Community of Ultra Running
00:27:28
Speaker
That's enough. Would you go back and do it again, do you think? If I lived in the lakes, yeah, like right now is just impossible. You have to go to the lakes all the time, train, train, train.
00:27:39
Speaker
ah so it's kind of like if I retired and had time to just run and run and run and run um then yeah I'd give it another go but at the moment I have done it and also when you're doing the programme you recce it so much that you you miss out on going other places and I kind of feel like I've I've done the Lake District to death in a way with all those wreckies and you help other people on their bug grams and it is really cool and it is really cool thing to do. um But yeah I've kind of done it and there's so much other stuff now out there that I yeah there's other stuff to do now.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, what is it that draws you to long distance, do you think? Is it is it the running or is it the the landscape or the just being outside? Yeah, it's the adventure, I think. It's the journey. um i like i yeah like I would never sign up for one of those lapped ultras where you do like five miles through some woods and then come back to the same place. like That idea fills me with dread. I know that some people think that's brilliant because they've got a checkpoint every five miles.
00:28:44
Speaker
and they can have a support team there and they can stop if they want to and you know it's not out on a limb but for me it's the adventure and it's the exploring of a new place and that's why I sign up to to Ultras and it's a nice way to just be outside all day like it's a good excuse to just eat a lot of food that you not normally allow yourself to eat and And yeah, and the camaraderie is really nice. Like the ultra running community is is really nice. It's one of the nicest sporting communities that I've sort of found. and And unlike the, if you do road races and everyone's fixated on what time you did and what splits you got.
00:29:24
Speaker
The ultra running community really isn't like that. They're like, oh, even if you didn't complete it, they're like, oh, well done anyway. You know, it's like, yeah, it's just you against the course of ultra running. it's It's not particularly, unless you're in the top 10 or whatever, it's not necessarily against anyone else. It's against, it's, it's you against yourself. It's you against your previous self.
00:29:43
Speaker
It's you against your future self, maybe even. And it's you against the weather and your kit and your nutrition and the navigation and the the terrain under your feet. And it's just, there's so many different aspects to it. And I kind of quite geekily like the planning for it as well. You know, I call the gear and like putting things into small bottles. I like that kind of thing. um Yeah, like sun cream and put into a tiny bottle. That's just all those things I quite like. Yeah. and But at the moment, it's funny, you should say, what do you like best about Ultra? Because at the moment, I haven't haven't got any more Ultra plans because iy I did five in the space of 12 months last year after coming back from having Finley and just kind of
00:30:25
Speaker
It took me about 18 months to get back up, back to the sort of normal. um So i did I did five within 12 months by April this year. And then I just got bronchitis for like three months.
00:30:41
Speaker
And I'm still taking an inhaler for it now. And I think I just did a bit too much too soon. I got a bit overexcited. So I'm having to rein it back and I'm doing my strength and i'll and I'll be back. But I don't know when and I don't know where. I've got a few, I'll i'll say at the end, because I know you've asked me that question, but yeah I'll tell you my bucket list ultras. But I'm sure you asked about how to choose. Did you ask? Yeah, so I was going to come back to that. So because in your book, you do list lots of um lots of you know good ultras for beginners and lots of you know, ultras for those looking for the next level. So what would you recommend for a first ultra then? How'd you go about chase? There's so many, isn't there? I suppose you've got to pick a time of year that suits you. So I often go and find a race and and pick, you know, like they do it, you can do it and through location and you can do it through time time of year. and And you can do it through mileage. So that's a really good race website to look on.
00:31:34
Speaker
um But I would go for one at the time of year that suits you so like if you've got time to train like coming up to May like you basically need about three or four months of training to sort of cut go from say you know like if you if you if you' the other type of person that can just crack out a half marathon just not not a PB half marathon but if you could comfortably run like 13 miles just tomorrow if you if it was required, then then you'd be looking at like maybe a three or four month ultra period to um to ramp up your ultra-ness. And the same same going for if you could just
00:32:11
Speaker
you know, if it would take you sort of three months, if it would take you 12 weeks to train up for a marathon, you can take 16 weeks to train up for a 50k say, that kind of distance ultra. and So I would choose the time of year and then I would i would look for for your first one, I would look for one with generous cutoff times, because they do vary a lot. Some of them, like the arc of attrition is mad. I got cut off in the arc of attrition. I'm not usually chasing cutoffs because I'm in the middle usually, but on that one I was. um So something like the Lakeland 50, it's 50 miles, but it's um it's a really good one for cutoffs. So something like that where you can jog and walk and jog and walk. And and um then I would choose
00:32:57
Speaker
one with good support so checkpoints full of food full of excited marshals going yeah um I would choose one where you can use a GPX as well and where there's going to be quite a lot of competitors so that say say you go into the night a little bit and it's dark you want to be around plenty of people um If you're choosing a 50k, you might not go into the dark. So you've got to look at what time the race starts. So an early morning race is good for not going into the dark. um And I would also choose one that excites you. Like there's no point training for something. Well, you just will not be motivated to train for something. Like I wouldn't be motivated to train for something that was just in loops around and around like an estate. um Even if it was a very beautiful estate.
00:33:45
Speaker
um like a stately home or something. So choose one that excites you, like maybe it's a linear one or maybe it follows the coast path or maybe it's a national trail that you've always wanted to run. ah Maybe it's something that you could maybe recce first if you if you live nearby and you just think, oh, that's a no-brainer. Or maybe it's something overseas that you just think, oh, I've always
Navigation Skills and Safety in Ultra Running
00:34:04
Speaker
wanted to go there. What better thing than to build a holiday around this race and I can do the race at the end of the holiday or the start of the holiday and be knackered for the rest of the holiday, whatever you choose.
00:34:13
Speaker
just Yeah, I'm chuckling, because I'm just thinking back to my first culture. And I honestly chose the race because it went past a very old tree in Sherwood Forest. Oh, brilliant. That genuinely excited me. Which one was it? I was taking a selfie with this tree when I got there. Oh, is that the one where it's like, it's got like little supports under all its branches? Yeah, it's really cool. It's like 5,000 years old, isn't it? Something like that. Yeah. And what was that? What was the name of that ultra? Can you remember? That's Jucary's. That was a Jucary's 40. Oh wow. Oh cool. Was it? That's what I recommend because it's nice and flat actually as well.
00:34:53
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm chuckling there because that excitement is key, isn't it? Because you need the motivation, of course, to dream for it, don't you? and get through it Yeah. And like you've just said, it's nice and flat. See, the words nice and flat don't go together for me. Like, ah because I'm from a hiking background, I actually like the hikes because also it's a great excuse to walk as well. It's like everyone's running up there.
00:35:16
Speaker
So yeah you mentioned navigation a few times. I mean, how important is having some knowledge of how to read a map? Yeah. There's a lot of waymark now, aren't there? And you can have GPXs on your watches for a lot of races. So should we be learning these navigation skills? Yeah. Well, in my opinion, it's very good to have some basic knowledge of navigation.
00:35:37
Speaker
in anyone's life, everybody, but you're right. Like there's a lot of races that at the shorter distances, they can't even be way marked like up to 50 miles. Sometimes they, they way mark those races and the GPX as well on the watch. I've, I've, I can't, I'm, I'm a bit old school, like map and compass, um, or that OS, uh, OS mapping app on your phone, which basically is like a sat-nav, but without with OS mapping underneath it.
00:36:04
Speaker
And that's my favorite, because it tells you exactly where you are, rather than you having to work it out from, Oh, what did I last see five minutes ago? And wondering where you are, um like in the olden days when I let first learned. But yeah, you can follow a DPX on your watch, but I just don't really understand them. Like on my watch, on this watch here, Garmin 245, 4Runner 245, it's just a line on the watch screen. And I'm like, how is that useful? It's a line with an arrow and like,
00:36:33
Speaker
yeah okay if I was like 10 meters off the line and I could go back to the line but it just doesn't make any sense you'd need a really posh watch with all the all the little features on there um because I know that you can get those um you need And then you could actually see where you were like, oh, there's a lake there and I'm on the right sort of thing. and But i I find the one on your phone a lot better, the OS mapping app, um because you can really see the actual map and your little triangle of where you are. and But that said, I just think navigation skills are so useful.
00:37:06
Speaker
I've got a map on my wall behind me, you won't be able to see it in the podcast but it's a map of my local area and I often just stand in front of it going oh I could run over there or it looks like hilly over there or I'll go over there and for your training runs I think it's important to have a basic understanding of navigation so that you can plan your own training runs and your own adventures um I mean you you can keep it easy like that you can see Rutland water is behind me and you can run around the whole of Rutland water start off really easily um but I just think it's important just as a life skill really to have a basic knowledge of maps and because when you get handed a map at a race or you look at the race map before the race on um the big boards
00:37:53
Speaker
you you'd at least understand a little bit of oh it's going to be hilly there or that's when the path might you know there's some trees there and and you just have a basic understanding of where you would be. I think I do think it's a little bit dangerous to go out into the remote wilderness without any knowledge of basic proper navigation because what if your battery dies on your phone? I know the paper map can also blow away but um I just think it's good to know navigation from all sides really. Yeah it's it's just key for safety isn't it?
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's just is just good to do. But it but that said, it shouldn't be a barrier to people. you can That's one of the reasons for signing up to trail races, especially the shorter ones, because they are all way marked. And you can have a lovely day out on trails without having to plan a route, without having to navigate. Even if you can navigate, it's a lot faster not having to do that. um So yeah, it's a lovely way to experience life.
00:38:55
Speaker
and do a race but then what do you do when it comes to your training runs? You kind of yeah exactly you have to know a bit and you can just build up slowly and and um and go from there but a navigating course is a very very good idea, very good idea.
Maintaining Motivation and Nutrition During Ultra Races
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah so talk us through and the mental side of ultra running them because there will be parts in an ultra race won't there for most of us where we think can't do this anymore.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, yes, it's that's a tricky one, um because everybody has their own ways of motivating themselves. But I think what you want to keep in mind first and foremost is, why am I doing this?
00:39:37
Speaker
and if you've got that nailed then it's much easier to pick yourself up and and go through those moments because it's a long day out there and you can't expect to be super cheerful for you know anything more than eight hours really especially as you get to the latter stages of the race you might have picked up a blister or something and and or your tummy might be hurting and you're just thinking, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? And then if you've got that why already prepared, then you just draw strength from that. you know You might be doing it for charity or you might be doing it for, your you know you you want to prove something to yourself or your kids or you made a bet drunkenly with some with some friend and you want to prove to them that you can do it. But if you remember why you're doing it,
00:40:26
Speaker
like even just running back from nursery this morning i'm running up a hill and a man in a wheelchair coming down the hill smiled at me and i smiled at him and and i was like right i'm gonna keep i was thinking of stopping and walking up the hill but i was like no he can't walk as well he might be able to do some walking, but he was probably smiling at me because I was making the most of my legs and and going for it and I was like, right, I've got legs, I'm privileged to have these legs, I'm going to try my hardest to jog slowly to the top of this hill. um So yeah, I think if you remember why you're doing it and that you you are privileged if you're in this position that you can you could do an ultra
00:41:02
Speaker
and it's It is a privilege to be able to go out there and and use both legs. So so yeah, take think joy in that and um yeah and that will get you through.
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah, I particularly love the saying we were talking about kind of low moods and there's a saying in your book that said bad mood eat food. Yes. I love that. That is so crucial, isn't it? Yeah, low mood eat food. deficit Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people will take um a special item of food with them. Like some people like percy pigs and they really perk them up and when they're feeling low, you can get out your little snack and just indulge yourself in your favourite snack that you don't usually allow yourself to have. That's a good perker upper as well.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah, and any tips on nutrition while we're on the subject? subject I'm probably the worst person to talk about. i i'm like like I leave the food but till last for some reason. I know some people plan it to the nth degree um and I'll just eat any old thing. you know like on ah ah If something's at a checkpoint, you know you're not supposed to eat anything new on race day, but if there's a nice looking sandwich, that goes down. I'll just wolf that down.
00:42:09
Speaker
and a but But yeah, so nutrition is good to eat little and often um and a lot of people will leave the eating until they actually feel hungry and that's kind of too late on an ultra run. You sort of need to be, it is a bit counterintuitive but you need to be eating a little bit before then. So every sort of half hour or so have a bite or two of your snacks and you want to take really high energy dense snacks as well, really um full of carbs, little bit of protein in there.
00:42:38
Speaker
um So stuff like flapjack, jelly babies, pizza, stuff that you can carry that doesn't matter if it gets squashed and doesn't suffer too much ah in the heat it can be a bit worse because it's harder to carry stuff when it's really hot because it just you have to be careful stuff doesn't go off um but in the winter you could even take a quiche out with you and just munch that on the way around I have been known to eat a quiche on the way around on an ultra and yeah I'm like quite an advocate for real food even though my podcast and live broadcast at the moment is currently sponsored by NAG, Sports Nutrition, and which I have been using, enjoying using those as well because um the gels are not too sweet. um I find gels can be really horribly sweet
00:43:23
Speaker
um i don't know how anyone does seven hours of gels the pros do i don't know how they do it i'm not going fast enough to need gels on most of my ultras um but these ones from naka quite nice um and um and yeah just um stuff that you enjoy eating and a variety of foods as well. Like you want some sweet in there, you want some savoury in there. um Some people really like salty potatoes as well. um I've had corned beef and mash.
00:43:53
Speaker
yeah not mean i a mar live program program Yeah, someone just brought it on my Bob Graham um and I nicked it from him. um That was nicer for me. ah Filled pasta you could take as well. That's really delicious. That mushroom filled pasta um and pizza and malt loaf and crisps as well. Basically, you know, there's two aisles in the supermarket that you don't usually allow yourself down. Go down and get all the all the crap food and and take that with you. It's like a ah picnic.
00:44:21
Speaker
um ah a children's picnic with loads of foods that are going to make you ah very energetic um and ah but apart from the race food it's good to also fuel yourself well outside of racing as well and recently I've just really got into like ah um you know there's been a lot of stuff in the in the press at the moment about ultra-processed foods. i'm Just try to reduce the amount of ultra-processed foods in your diet and you'll go a long way to nutritional success, I would say. So listen to some podcasts with Tim Spector in. um I think ah run and chatterje Dr. Ronan Chatterjee, he's done a really nice interview with um The guy that wrote Ultra Processed People, Chris Van Tilcombe, I think his name is, that's a really interesting chat and it will make you look at food in a different way. And it's also um really useful to to read that book because it just gives you a ah new reason not to eat those foods because they're biscuits and crisps and um all those things that you would eat on an ultra race, which is fine, and but not in your everyday life. and They're really tempting and I just thought that they were bad for you because they were high in calories.
00:45:26
Speaker
um but actually and also they're not like really nutritionally amazing um but actually they are so bad for you that they can cause problems later in life if you eat loads of them like they're linked to various different cancers and things now actually so that's it just gives you a whole new reason not to eat bad foods during the downtime during the non-racing times so I find found that very useful.
00:45:51
Speaker
yeah no that's that's Yeah, it's an interesting book. I was most shocked at how those kind of foods encouraged you to just eat more of them. yeah so yeah Yeah, it's just shocking. The whole food industry is just really shocking. um But the the downside is that you just end up cooking loads of stuff from scratch. It takes a lot of time. I've started bat cooking like yesterday, I made two huge cauldrons of soup. Yeah, that's a good tip, isn't it?
00:46:17
Speaker
So with with nutrition, just back to nutrition, Joe in a race briefly, how would that work overnight? If you're doing a long one, would you still keep eating regularly? Like, I guess we'd have to train our tummies to to deal with that, wouldn't we by doing some night training? Yeah, yeah. um Yeah.
00:46:35
Speaker
you You get to a point, I get to a point anyway, on these longer ones like 50 miles ish and plus, where you just you don't want to eat anymore. And, and yeah, I suppose that it's difficult to eat every half hour, to be honest, and you probably, I mean,
00:46:52
Speaker
They say every half hour, but I'd probably at that point be eating more like every hour and also on a longer one that goes through to the night as well. You might want to just stop for if you've got time, if you're not chasing cutoffs, you might just want to stop just for 20 minutes or so in an aid station where they've got hot food. They usually have hot food on these longer races.
00:47:11
Speaker
at some point and it's usually when most people are going to be hitting the night section um and they need a hot meal and I would just sit and eat that pasta for 10 or 20 minutes and or you know sometimes they do a beef stew or a veggie chilli just have a proper meal yeah I would do that and then you'll just feel full again because you do ah you just get fatigued you You start getting mouth ulcers as well if you're doing a multi-dayer and you're just eating chocolate and sweets all the time. You start getting a ah poorly mouth as well. I found on day four of the Cape Bath Ultra, my mouth was just getting ulcers and stuff. and So, yeah. And I've never needed any fillings in my life until I started ultra running because I realised I was holding jelly babies in my mouth and things like that on races. and
00:47:58
Speaker
It's really important to to take a toothbrush on these longer ones as well. I think I've mentioned it in the stuff for the Dropbox if you're doing a longer race and put a toothbrush in there because you will want to clean your teeth. It's nice or have something minty take chewing gum or something like that. Yeah no one wants furry teeth on a run do they? Yeah and yeah and just for like cavities and stuff it's not good all that sugar over that prolonged period of time as well.
Inclusivity in Ultra Running and Claire's Future Aspirations
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, some really good tips in there. So is is there anything else in your book that's kind of key that you'd like to just put forward in this podcast to make people read it? Like what key message would you like? I don't think anyone needs to buy it now. I've told you everything.
00:48:36
Speaker
and yeah there's there's plenty more in there promise I just, I think what I wanted to get across in the book was apart from ultra running, should we be rebranded to ultra hiking in my case, um that it is really for everybody. um If, if you're and pretty much able bodied person that can walk or run ah ah a marathon or a, or a a road marathon or a half marathon then if you want to you can do an ultra um and they're not as big and as scary as you might think they are. they I actually prefer ultras to sort of a half marathon because you're just jogging and walking rather than going balls out and trying to get sub two hours or whatever you're trying to do. um So I just wanted to
00:49:26
Speaker
make this book like friendly and entertaining as a read so that people would just like consider it their friend, um just telling them you know a bit more advice than then you'd get just by going out and going at it alone. So I think that's what I want to come across in the book, that everybody can do it.
00:49:45
Speaker
and I hope that the book can feel. I've tried to make the book as much as I can and I'm sure there's always room for improvement but I've tried to make it inclusive in terms of like age, sex, ability, um gender, colour, faith. We've got stuff in there from my friend Taz about training during Ramadan. I don't know if that's been done in any other ultra running book We've got peak disability as well, people with stoma bags, so the lady who's written this lovely poem at the start, Lenny Sargen, she's got scoliosis of the spine, um but her poem is just wonderful about not quitting at the beginning and I just thought that's brilliant to put in there. and Yeah there's training like while you're pregnant um and while yeah and just yeah just
00:50:37
Speaker
If you're really stressed, just give yourself a break because the ultras will always be there. You don't have to do, and yeah, you don't have to do them. like in I've suggested some really good hundred milers, but actually you don't have to do a hundred milers. I think there's this sort of misconception with ultras that once you start, you've got to go, oh, I'll do 50K, then I'll do 50 miles, then I'll do 100K, then I'll do a hundred miles, and then, oh my God, I need to do even further. I need to do multi-day. You don't. You just, if you like running, if you like being out in the outdoors for a long time,
00:51:08
Speaker
and you love 50K, you're still an ultra runner. You don't have to run a hundred miles. You don't have to do the hardest race. You don't have to do the UTMB, ultra-trail, du Mont Blanc to be considered an ultra runner. It really is for everybody. And hopefully there's lots of inspiring stories from real runners in here, having their own struggles and and overcoming them.
00:51:28
Speaker
and if they want to and doing ultras. But if you don't want to do an ultra, then don't, you don't have to. It's just as valid to go out and do a lovely 10 miler in some beautiful countryside. And if you're that kind of person, you should go for my other book, the ultimate trail running handbook. That was a brilliant extra plug there, Claire. Thank you.
00:51:47
Speaker
um me So that's the it's the ultimate ultra running handbook. And that's available from Yes, the day today when we're publishing the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. and So just talk us through what's next to for you then Claire. I know you mentioned you were recovering from yeah characterton So if you haven't got any races in the planner yet. Very unusually for me, I've got zero races and I hope that doesn't sound demotivating at the end of such a wonderful podcast with amazing questions from you. um But I just, I'm feeling quite free. um But I am itching to book something. I'm itching to book. I want to do some short local races.
00:52:28
Speaker
um but i just there's a club championships race in November and i went to book on it and it's an it's only an hour away but it's 27 pounds and i'm like 10k 27 pounds and 10k i think i'm still living in the 90s prices are just like they're very concerning to me at the moment i paid 90p for a packet of smarties for my son the other day 90p didn't they used to be 15p smarties but Anyway, um so I haven't got any races, but I do have things on the bucket list like what I would really love to do is some of those longer distance races, but over two weeks, like the spine race over two weeks, like just running along and like staying in a B and&B along the way, like a running holiday, just organize it
Connect with Claire and Podcast Conclusion
00:53:10
Speaker
yourself. I'd love to do the dragon's bat race in that same vein. Like I know Shane, the race organizer, he's like an old friend of mine. He's just done it in one go. Absolutely crazy person.
00:53:19
Speaker
but I would like to do that over two weeks ending perhaps at on you know ending with the dragon's back race people that would be fantastic and I thought about maybe I could go and do it over a series of weekends or something like that do like two days of it over a weekend or or something like that anyway splitting those big races up into lot into shorter ah shorter but longer adventures if you know what I mean shorter per day but longer time frame adventures really appeals to me like my favorite trip was the Radnafallen path around the entire of the Isle of Man. ah It's a beautiful coast path with loads of varied terrain, cliff top, beaches and little towns along the way. Absolutely fantastic run. I think that's the kind of ultra running that I like to do. Take big races and split them down. um Basically wrecking. yeah um Yeah. And I'd like to do um race a wrap run around the clock. No, race around the rock. It's on Jersey, the Isle of Jersey. It's 48 miles and it's around the coast of Jersey. Basically, I like coastal running around islands.
00:54:18
Speaker
No, that sounds fun. I think there's something satisfying about running the perimeter of something isn't there as well. Yeah, I like to explore. Yeah. Yeah. I like a new route and I like a journey. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I can definitely sense the adventurer in you. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I've really enjoyed our chat and there is plenty more in the book if you're out there listening. So do go and check it out. um So thank you, Claire.
00:54:44
Speaker
and for just sharing your wealth of of knowledge on ultra running. And hopefully it's inspired some of you out there. So where else can people find you online? Oh, um Instagram is ah Wild Ginger Running or Wild Ginger Runs, I can't remember. ah Twitter is Wild Ginger Runs, I think. If you basically, if you Google Wild Ginger Running, it should come up with everything. And the YouTube channel is the main one. So yeah, Wild Ginger Running YouTube, if you Google that, that should come up with all the stuff. Oh, and if you've got a query about anything to do with ultra running, just type your query in plus the words Wild Ginger Running, and it will bring up any of the videos that I've done on it. So you might find your question answered there as well.
00:55:23
Speaker
Oh, that's great. So loads more tips on that and gear reviews, of course. Oh, yes. scar reviews Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you so much, Claire. And thank you to everybody for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review and share it with all your running buddies. And we'll see you on the next episode. Awesome. Thank you.