Transcript
Speaker: with the coachman D20 Radio. at Your game is rolled.
Speaker: How will We Roll Gaming is dedicated to spreading enjoyment of great role-playing games. We hope to bring you insights into games you may not have played, tips to be a better game master and player, and share us stories of momentous events at our tables.
Speaker: Every game is a new story to tell. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And here's Robert. And this is How We Roll.
Speaker: Welcome back to the How We Roll Gaming Podcast, everybody. Hope you are all doing well. Robert, Nick, I hope you are doing well. oh Today's been very fun and this week's been great.
Speaker: Didn't have to be on the phones at my job, so just a nice chill week. I remember when I had to be on the phones, I hated any chance that I got. I didn't want to be on the phones.
Speaker: Nick, I hope you're doing well. Been a bit busy, but things are looking up in terms of like busyness, but still, I'm making it through.
Speaker: Right on, right on. Well, we're going to talk today about a subject that is near and dear to our hearts. But let's take care of some business first. Yes. Before we dive into our topic this time around, we want to point you to one of the other great shows on the D20 radio network.
Speaker: On We Fix Games, Laura and Jessica take a look at games focusing on the storytelling aspect. But examining not only what makes them great, but what might make better, too.
Speaker: And in their most recent episode, they cover a mobile game for the first time, Hungry Shark Evolution. The sharks are hungry, and they want all the flesh and nastiness they can get their fins on.
Speaker: And Laura and Jerrica figure out why and what makes them so... cursed? So check out We Fix Games at Glitterfoxmedia.com and wherever you get your podcast podcasts. Links in the show notes.
Speaker: This week, or this episode, we are talking about something that sooner or later pretty much every game is going to get around to.
Speaker: And that is death of a PC. Yes. When the story or the luck just isn't with that player character.
Speaker: Every so often, the dice just say... Finish him! ah And we must oblige. That is correct.
Speaker: And so, there's ways that you can go... but let's Let's be honest, none of us as GMs frequently want to kill our are player characters.
Speaker: Because all of you is the player... It is true. like Despite what like a great many horror stories say, like, The GM's goal is not to murder you all.
Speaker: Now, there are some exceptions. Robert and I both have a copy of a wonderful book from Beetle and Grimm's Faster Purple Worm, Everybody Dies, Volume 1.
Speaker: Where the goal is, you're gonna die. But even that book says, what happens if you live? Yeah, it it's designed around TPK one-shots.
Speaker: Basically, it's like in a normal D&D story, you may be the party going into a contract that has claimed the lives of so many adventurers. And Fast and Purple Worms, you are one of those group of adventurers that died first.
Speaker: You're the ones that they... You're the environmental storytelling skeletons in a Bethesda game. Right. You're the Vox Machina intro of Okay, who else we got after they died?
Speaker: And at the same time, there are some systems and some campaigns that are set up with the intention of the players' characters being squishy and potentially not lasting long and going through a series of characters for each player. Looking at you, alien, looking at you, walking dead.
Speaker: And in some cases, Delta Green in case of killing someone, or you just go insane. Which doesn't necessarily remove them.
Speaker: It removes them from the player's control and turns them into potential NPCs that could be used later on. Or just examples of what could happen in the dark and twisted is it madness of the campaign.
Speaker: of the campaign yes But even in those places where you're more squishy, it's still not our goal as GMs to kill you. One, because this is a collaborative storytelling, and I can speak, I'm sure I can speak for all of us, we get invested in the characters you make.
Speaker: Yeah. And again, like it even in campaigns that are like more squishy, the... You shouldn't, you should let your players get invested in your characters because that makes better stories.
Speaker: Even if it is like the case, like they may Paris or be unusable afterwards. It is like the idea is the fact that you are investing horror works because you care about the characters.
Speaker: Yes. And we won't, we won't rehash whether we, Sure, when there's the right opportunity to kill a player character, we've already done an episode on that. We're more focusing on once the death happens.
Speaker: Because that is a whole discussion and of itself. Now, for starters, the first thing that happens when you kill a player character is everybody at the table sit generally sits in stunned silence for a second, but ideally...
Speaker: that death was momentous enough that there's also a reaction of some kind. There is a moment of shock, but also there is a moment of either elation or tragedy. Yes, and at the end of whatever that encounter was, the aftermath.
Speaker: Right. But there is always, there will always be this where, like, everyone's, like, stunned silence, like, that happened. Then it's the immediate, like, positive or negative effect, and then the aftermath.
Speaker: And ideally, when a player character dies, you don't want it to be that case of yeah that character's gone and they're never spoken of again.
Speaker: Ideally, you want that character death to actually... add to the story there's consequences there's repercussions for the other characters and again it could could it's just like writing in writing you want a character death to matter whether it's yeah a matter to the story or matters characters or a character it you want it to be
Speaker: something that's going to be carried on going forward. Exactly. Exactly. And there's also no rule that character death can't happen anytime if the dice are just against you.
Speaker: And we've mentioned it before. It's the nature of the fact that we are, that role-playing games are a a dice-based game. And certain times, like there's plenty of rules and plenty of abilities to get out of that.
Speaker: um But sometimes, it's just not your day. Sometimes it's just not your day. Sometimes, if you're playing in a prologue adventure in Session Zero, if the dice are against you, the dice are against you. Aren't they, Nick?
Speaker: Yes. Or you establish a home roll that a certain someone can't roll criticals. Yes. Robert is no longer allowed to roll crits at our at our table unless we want catastrophic effects of crits.
Speaker: Yes, because my experience as GM with death, it was when I killed two people in a session. One, because I just got a really good critical, and two, because of player decisions, I'll just say.
Speaker: And Robert, are you speaking to those two players right now? Yeah. I will say Daryl's character, his death added suspense because I got a crit that said he would die at the end of next round, so there was a chance to save him.
Speaker: If you could, which added stakes to the fight. and Unfortunately, none of us were in, none of the characters in that campaign were capable of doing a anything to save him.
Speaker: Yes. So if we continue with that, that could have added a sense of, oh, I could have saved him, but I just wasn't able to. And that could be a whole character arc. It was a case of literally like, he got that critical and it's like,
Speaker: Even if we none of us had the ability to save... He needed a quite literal miracle to save them. Yes, but I will say it was good for the story because actually building up to it, they were chasing down this criminal.
Speaker: They were in his lair. He was saying stuff over the speaker. And as our group, they love talking about cliches or here comes the monologue, blah, blah, blah. Then he drops the boss...
Speaker: And when I speared Daryl's character through the chest, that's when that's when the they found out, oh, this is serious. and We did our best against it.
Speaker: we We did. We tried. And the other character, I was like, you want to move, Nick? Because he's going to fall again and hurt you. He's like, no, I'll stay here. Nick, this is going to hurt you a lot. Are you sure you don't want to move? I'm sure.
Speaker: I was sure that my choice at the time. I'll admit, that was a poor choice. I was just like, I tried. falls on you and you did.
Speaker: Now, there are ways that you can have... those storytelling concept there consequences going forward and impact to to make that character death meaningful. ah the There's the cliche, there's the joke that is out there about ah the player who you know is, you that say that the player character is named, get give me a barbarian name.
Speaker: Hmm, that's true. I'm just... ah I said... Fenrir. I had one in mind and I lost it. So we'll just I am Conan. Okay. hey And Conan gets killed.
Speaker: And the player... you know There's the old joke about the player who takes their character sheet after their character Conan is killed and in the name slot writes Junior.
Speaker: and says i am Conan Junior and I am here to avenge my father. Yes. There's a classic story.
Speaker: Classic, but you can make it work. But you can make it work. Especially if like a Like a barbarian character. I believe it the the actual original story was like it was it was like an elf ranger and there's like I have like 75 different different guys with the same junior your last name.
Speaker: He's just been around that long. Or it's like oh no my identical twin brother. he doesn' with Your identical twin brother will avenge you.
Speaker: he's He's been around all the realms. it like and He is not safe. Yes.
Speaker: But even introducing maybe not a junior, but just someone playing the role of a barbarian could even add team tension and team dynamics because now and new player character is a new characters coming into a team trying to fill a role from a beloved old member who passed away, and there's that tension like... You're you're not him.
Speaker: You're not him. Even if you are of game. And even though you're trying your best, I just have these at these memories of him, and you're just not him, and that causes me to be distant.
Speaker: It's a classic like... Look, I'm not... I'm glad you're here, but it's like... I'm still grieving that individual... i'll give a cinema I'll give a very obvious example. It's the beginning of Joel and Ellie where he was like, I'm not your daddy. and You sure as shit ain't my daughter. And it's the that's a hope That is a character arc. That is a storytelling device to be like... it's like And that creates conflict. it's like
Speaker: Because again, like you have the player character. We don't want him to go into... this new barbarian to get into trouble because we lost one, but we also don't want them to think that they're replacing them. and like They're like, we I am your barbarian. I am doing these things. like well you There's a most new conflict there.
Speaker: That's a whole character arc. that Again, most people forget like the'll there's role-playing role-playing game. Or if we if we want to pull another example from media,
Speaker: um and i I'm pretty sure Nick has. Robert, have you watched The Orville? No. Seth MacFarlane's nominal Star Trek parody that very quickly became its own thing?
Speaker: it's No, I have not. it's It's honestly, like and I'm not even like a, I'm not a big Seth MacFarlane fan. Same. But Same, but it that it is a great show, but that's beside the point. I was just, I was wondering both of your familiarity with the situation we're about to throw out there.
Speaker: So they wrote out um in season two, they wrote out ah the character who was their security chief and brought in a new security chief who was from the same species as the original security chief.
Speaker: So had some of the same special abilities and such. And there was a whole running subplot for the rest of season two, not really a subplot, but more a, a running theme that,
Speaker: She was filling the same role as her predecessor and had much the same skill set as her predecessor, but I'm not her. you know I'm doing the same job.
Speaker: I'm not going about it exactly the same way because we're not the same person and you're expecting me to be that person. And so you have, that's a lot of meat that you can play with, presuming that the new character that comes in more or less fills the same role.
Speaker: Yes. Which, if you're looking if you're looking at a game like more like D&D, where there are more set roles within a party then you can get a little more mileage out of that that might show up a little more frequently whereas we mentioned walking dead yes there are character archetypes but you nick we'll just say it you've gone through three characters so far i have killed three of your characters
Speaker: not a single one of them has filled the same exact niche and used the same archetype as the previous one. It is true. Yes, because even though Walking Dead has archetypes, they're more to just be like, this is how you can build the structure, but then you decide how it's used. And realistically, I could use the...
Speaker: This is something we've always discussed, like archetypes slash character classes, etc. are just starting points for characters. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. So you don't need you could have, realistically, in if you have individuals who have like defined characters, you would have an entire entire team of the same quote-unquote class or archetype.
Speaker: Yes, because... In The Walking Dead, my character is called the Homemaker. is His stats put him very big into physical stuff, like close combat, endurance, force, stuff like that.
Speaker: But you could Homemaker. He's turned into the group's basically Dale. But you could make... Slash Carol of the group, who can actually talk to you as well. You could just as easily make the Homemaker bit more stealthy, a bit more...
Speaker: or ill-defined, or more defined in certain areas. It just depends on how you build the character and how you play it. did Dale Carroll when you could go to... I'd even argue Michonne's kind of a homemaker, if you're really thinking about it. You could, but again, it's just how...
Speaker: how you build the characters. yeah it's it's Role-playing it's role-playing games isn't just like part of the name. It it does define. it's like you You could play a barbarian who's who's gentle. You could play like ah play a rogue who isn't a thief.
Speaker: And now that I'm thinking about it, you know, Robert, I know that you're not in my Star Trek campaign that just started, but... In the unlikely event that a player character is killed in that campaign, I might strongly suggest that the player come up with another character that fills that same function. Because you do have that structure on a starship like that. yeah That's what was thinking. have someone in that position. Like, Nick, I'm just going to pick on you because I've already killed you three times in Walking Dead.
Speaker: If I kill your security chief... I mean, what am I supposed to be here for? Exactly. If I kill your security chief, or your security chief is killed, I should say, then I'm going to encourage you to make the new security and tactical officer.
Speaker: And it's up to you to decide, you know is this someone who's been on the ship and is now promoted to the position, or is this an officer who's transferred in from another post?
Speaker: But I think I want to consciously play with that idea of the new person that's doing the same job and their expectations built from familiarity with the one who vacated the position.
Speaker: Yes, sir. I just had a thought. I don't watch Star Trek. I don't know how it how works. But if in the event that Lawrence's character, who I know plays the captain, were to die, would it be a whole second-hand command takes over?
Speaker: Or there'd be like a vote on the ship to be who would replace her as captain? Well, there wouldn't be a vote on the ship. Starfleet Command would decide who the new captain is. Now, they could promote the first officer,
Speaker: into that position or they could send another captain in and really without spoiling too much for Nick. So I have like four or five quote unquote seasons worth of this campaign kind of mapped out because once I started it, I just had this huge brainstorm night.
Speaker: Creativity at his best. I really, really hope that doesn't happen because i have a whole I have an entire season story arc that has to do with the captain.
Speaker: that's so we i say as GMs, we have plans for your characters. If it comes up, we'll do it, but we don't want your characters to die. Trust me. If something happens to that character, have to rethink that entire season.
Speaker: yes i yeah that and I'll fully admit, as a GM... there's a There's a player in our groups named Dante. He really gets into the story play. Really great as player character. we got some stuff.
Speaker: I built stuff around the characters he makes because he just really gets goes into a deep dive on his characters. If he were to die like in my Cyberpunk Red campaign, oh, so much would be real So much I would have to reach that restructure.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm going to count on it. is that is something that we do need to talk about as, you know, it's like, sometimes we don't want, but normally we don't want death.
Speaker: Especially because normally we want to build these characters to have a further story arc. And normally that story arc doesn't include death. Death is a finality that is it's on the is part of storytelling yeah i'm going to it's also not something that a lot of gms don't want to deal that yes and that ties back into our episode of when should you go for the kill right you also have to factor that in in a in a literary comparison gms we want to be like jr tolkien rather than george r or martin yeah and right
Speaker: And even then, he does it for shock value. but He does it for shock value, and it works for his type of story. it would not But you you could not do a Game of Thrones thing well unless you had really good players in ah in a our TTRPG setting.
Speaker: And it has to have multiple player characters so they don't feel like this. All right, so we just... We read Wedding like half the cast. Which, granted...
Speaker: There is a Game of Thrones CT RPG. You would have to be prepared for that if you played that type of campaign to just die. But you also have to be like, all right, so you have to have multiple characters to be like, all right, this half of the cast died.
Speaker: Guess what? You're the new focus characters. Yeah, you're this you're the seven-year-old heir since your father died i drowning.
Speaker: Now, Robert, I'm going to count on, since this is my plan for season four, and we're just starting season one, I'm going to count on Nick sleeping between now and then, and forgetting everything that I'm about to say.
Speaker: But with you on the outside looking in, here's the kind of thing that I'm talking about with the Star Trek thing. When we hit what would be season four of this campaign, it would be in the Star Trek timeline when the Federation is actually at war with with um a another power in the galaxy.
Speaker: okay And so they they step from more of a piece well they step changed from being a peacetime organization to a wartime military. okay And part of what I have planned for season four is that knowing how Lauren is playing the captain so far,
Speaker: Starfleet is going to come in and review things that have happened recently and say, this is not an indictment of your command abilities, but we need a wartime captain.
Speaker: And they're going they're going to pull her from command of the ship and place another captain in charge. That would be interesting.
Speaker: The season's story arc is going to be about um is going to be about the crew dealing with this change and how can and can we get our captain back in command?
Speaker: That will most certainly be an interesting season 4 slash 5. Yes.
Speaker: yes Yes. So Nick, forget, and I should probably go in when I edit this episode and tell the players of that campaign, if they're listening to skip ahead.
Speaker: Or you could just bleep yourself out. Well, that defeats the purpose of me talking about it. I believe on YouTube you you can put in like a like like footnote to where you can skip it.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You can do it in audio, too. But I just i i need to go in and and put that in. It's like, hey, future me here jumping in. Yes. As you said, player character death can have some great short-term stuff. But you've also talked about how they live on our own characters.
Speaker: And I'll say the best campaign we have with death that encompasses that is, of course, your Walking Dead one. is. Not just Nick has died, but one of Dante's characters has died, and he has impacted the story very tremendously.
Speaker: But the concept yeah is is, and again, ironically, the Walking Dead is probably the best setting for that, because because everyone doesn't recognize it's like,
Speaker: The real Walking Dead is is the player characters. yeah yeah Yeah, that's ah it's a joke. Yes. it is it is like your existence.
Speaker: it's It's the lives that you live until you die that becomes the most important parts in that storytelling. Yeah, like are you just surviving or are you living?
Speaker: and that type of your fo Your final acts and what acts you do while alive as a player character are going to, should, impact not just the narrative of the story, like the the whole i campaign, but also at least impart on player characters or NPCs.
Speaker: Yes. Why Dante's character Yothi's death really impacted my character Hank. One, because Hank's the one who actually killed him. but also too, it caused him because his niece in the game, which is another player character, heard it, not ways in the state, but heard it, which caused Hank to finally let go of trying to protect her by lying to her, where he's just completely honest with her now.
Speaker: To where last session we even joked like, okay, how's she gonna sneak onto this mission? Instead, Hank just flat out said, we're doing this, do you wanna come along? which Which is a subversion of like the of the troops that we were starting the campaign with.
Speaker: Now, here's something. The mischievous youth is now accepted. It's not just like they're tagging along. They are now like, we expect them to tag along. So let's put them on the team. I'm going to trust that you can be, just as we're being honest with each other, I trust that you can take care of yourself and I don't have to watch you like a hawk.
Speaker: And not to say that Yothi's death will come back to haunt the whole campaign in certain ways, but... But did inspire certain ideas that you are percolating. Yes. I assume you're going to you going to deliver in Season 2, because we have a Season...
Speaker: Season one finale coming Season one finale coming up soon, yes. Yeah, in like two sessions, depending what we do. But ah I will that I have exhausted my characters for this season.
Speaker: Oh, but also Nick's character, the last one, Becca, really impacted Hank because he's taking care of her daughter right now. Becca's probably my favorite character of the entire campaign.
Speaker: I'll admit, she was mine as well. but it's also Hank definitely was going to look after Amanda, which is Becca's daughter. Yeah. But he fully in his mind expected them to hash things out and she go back to being the primary caregiver.
Speaker: And then she goes, down and then she go and goes and dies. And now he's like, okay, now I really have to step up and be this father to this little girl. While I also have to see how her mother's death is going to impact. her Again, there's a whole... like a lot like i I do not envy you as a player character having to deal that stuff.
Speaker: yeah and this And how is all of that going to... How is all of that going to be impact to impact everything? Well, uh... Who knows? Who knows? That's how we got into this situation in the first place. one but With one bad roll from Amanda, she thought,
Speaker: Her mother was abandoning her. Again, it honestly, I created the character out of a situation that we that this sort of happened. well I intended that character to be by my going-on character.
Speaker: but yeah like well And you didn't even intend for her to be Amanda's mother. I saw an opportunity. they even said, wait, is Amanda your daughter? What?
Speaker: And then we're and we're doing the whole, let's just look to the right. She's right there. ah Yeah, we were playing we were playing with that coin. And then things just naturally happened. Again, it was great. story Honestly, you like it's hard to say like I didn't get a whole lot of time with the characters I made for Walking Dead.
Speaker: Even so, your character impacted lot of people, not just me. But Dante's character, who now, because he's playing a soldier right now, he now has to contend with the fact that he, as your squadmate, in his mind, left you to die, abandoned you.
Speaker: And he knows about my connection with Amanda. So, like, how he handles that situation. Like, does he try to help you with Amanda? like Again, there's a whole lot of storytelling to go on. Or does he really retreat in his soldier mindset?
Speaker: to just become more... so Again, there's a whole... Again, there's a whole lot of story arcs. It's just that created without... Again, like, even though I didn't want to die, character... And likely, Daryl, you could have easily meld my character for a great many mores more episodes. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: But it was just the roll of the dice that said that. The dice were not in my favor. and i I even tried other The situation wasn't in your favor. It just all went pear-shaped.
Speaker: like because Walking Dead just has some roles that are just like instant death. You die. its like But again, I did not... and and that's ah That's a thing from the player perspective.
Speaker: Sometimes, you especially in games like The Walking Dead, you have to Some systems are where death has to be expected. And it's better to play than how you would normally, but you also have to accept like, yes, sometimes the dice gods are not in your favor.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. I'll tell you the most immediate thing that's happening with Hank now that Becca's died is that he is adamantly refusing to leave the hotel where he works. Because he's like, every time I go outside, someone wants me to go outside the encampment, and something bad happens. I got attacked by a tiger. I got attacked by a walker.
Speaker: i got I saw Becca die. I am not leaving this strip for the next month. I am not going anywhere. I mentioned it to to you, Daryl, but like I am not going to create a new player character. I'm going to work on making new player characters for season two. But I you could just like You can assign me NPCs season. I'll give them a little bit of flavor, but none of them will become like my player character. and taylor Oh, sure, sure.
Speaker: Now, the thing, too, this this is a great segue, talking about your character your most recent character, Becca, that died in Walking Dead, into another thing that you can do to get some good storytelling from player character's death and that is that character's unfinished business.
Speaker: Exactly. yes Especially you know if you're if you're dealing with a with a game that has you epic subplots and goals and and a big story that's going on. like There was a suggestion by players in in The Walking Dead that I take on the character of Amanda and And I ultimately, I, for a moment, I thought, but now no, not at this point.
Speaker: No, I have some things that I want to play with as the GM, with her still being an NPC. yeah and dead It was brought up, but I was like, no, I, Becca is still too in in my mind as my player character.
Speaker: character, and like so I can't really get into the NPC but very well played Becca character right now. I'll be honest, Nick, I do want you to keep playing Elijah right now, especially now that he's lost his bodyguard. That'll be interesting to see. Oh, Elijah's fun. Elijah's really fun.
Speaker: Yeah, but even in the event of Yothi, Hank still has that vilest strain Yothi gave him that he has no what the heck to do with. um But the other thing, too... We've we've been also been playing fast and loose with NPCs, taking up some of the slack.
Speaker: Yeah, we've got guard NPCs that we play. I've got a few NPCs from the Flamingo, the the Mafia that I play. But it's... Again, that's fun.
Speaker: It's also in other things like... easily we could probably transition some of those into PCs. But right now, it was like, I'd rather come up with some fresh PCs coming into the next season and just be keeping up the, I won't be a PC in the in the game. I'll be a glorified NPC for for the next few sessions.
Speaker: But even even with all of that, with unfinished business, like let's say you've got a D&D campaign. that the character that died had this this goal that they were trying to attain. They were trying to... A quest.
Speaker: Okay, I'm going to pull another media thing out here, but go in a different route than the movie did. So, The Princess Bride. ye Inigo Montoya is seeking vengeance against Count Rugen, the six-fingered man.
Speaker: What if Inigo is killed before he finds Count Rugen? Ooh. Oh. And the giant comes in. Yeah, but let's let's say, I mean, you know we're we're playing fast and loose with the Princess Bride just because that's that's a a great hook, a great vengeance hook in a movie. Let's say that Wesley and Inigo and Buttercup and Fezzik were already the party.
Speaker: Okay. And Inigo is killed. Does the rest of the party take it upon themselves to continue hunting down Count Rugen and get their fallen comrades vengeance for him?
Speaker: And does that had their own layer of seeking vengeance? It would. Because they would want to honor their ally. Or it could be an individual who's like... we bring him their bestus rather than vengeance Or, like, it depending on the situation... Now, this is another thing. The situation of death. Say that he is slain, but he's right next to the situation. He's like, my friend, you must... If you wish to honor my my life and legacy, complete my quest.
Speaker: That becomes, like, a ah bond, a pact in that final moment. What if Frodo is killed on Weathertop? Yes.
Speaker: that's That's the thing. How Sam going to deal with that? so so Sam would know what he needs to do. He needs to take the ring. I'll do it, Mr. Frodo.
Speaker: For you. going kill call him. Sam would Frodo was just like, nope. Stab him right for...
Speaker: have him right for right fruit Especially if Frodo died in Weathertop. Though in hindsight that means you don't get gong's help to reverse to get there.
Speaker: But does the party even split if Frodo's killed on Weathertop? That's entirely true. There's a whole lot of... Who knows? That's the nature of... That's the nature of role-playing games. It's like... for For everyone that... Again, like... It all goes back to, again, like...
Speaker: D&D was heavily inspired by Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings as classic fantasy. is like There's a lot of ways where you could just like cut and slice and introduce like little avenues out of there.
Speaker: Because that's... A role-playing game is a living document. A a living story. you can't you can You can plan it out as much as you want.
Speaker: But trust me, and we all know this is as game masters and DMs now, you can never anticipate what the players will do.
Speaker: Yes, and never try to control how they react to a death. Let it run free. Again, yep they they could... yeah And it doesn't even matter with like We're talking about player character death, but NPC death as well.
Speaker: Yes, because we all have each group always has their beloved NPCs in some way or form. And if that you you just know that if it to the ah classic ah Brooklyn Nine-Nine, me is like, I've had this character for what like a couple of seconds.
Speaker: If they die, I will kill everyone in this room. Yeah. i like In some my campaigns, it's gruff gore for my Star Wars campaign. and Cyberpunk, I'd argue it's Hot Dog Harris in some regards.
Speaker: Hot Dog Harris dice, we riot.
Speaker: Yep, and sometimes you know there's there's no denying it. As a player, there are certain characters that you're like, okay, I like this character, but if they die, they die. it It's just a character in an RPG.
Speaker: But we all have at least that one character that we say, yeah, if this character dies, I'm just going to drop out of the campaign because I love this character too much.
Speaker: yeah I can't see another character slotting in. Or heck, it can be the opposite of just, yeah oh, this villainous character is so great. I almost don't want to kill him.
Speaker: Because oh yeah that was the scenario I got from my beginning of my Star Wars campaign with Warden Karnor. They loved how just straight up evil he was. that They were like, oh. When they finally kill him, they're like, aw.
Speaker: Honestly, I felt we almost didn't want to kill him. we had We had something similar in our one of our early villains of our Legacy of the Force campaign. Oh, yes. Allegria. Allegria.
Speaker: and i and go Because we deceived them. But they didn't want to destroy her. But it was like, she is the early first villain. She literally just blew up a planet. You kind of have to.
Speaker: But they were like, oh, we don't want to do it because Because we did play them on that. But also, they're like but there others they like when when the reveal happened, is' like ah he says they could feel it yeah like Even Daryl is a character in the campaign. i was like I was like, I was 80% sure she was a bad guy, but she was still great.
Speaker: She was a fun guy right there. i Kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. the The other thing, too, is going back to media, there's characters like that. We're getting away from character death for a minute, but that happened on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Speaker: Yeah. the The character of Spike was introduced as yeah one of several villains early in season two. He was planned to be killed at the mid-season finale of season two.
Speaker: But the viewers loved him, so he was kept around. He left at the end of season two, came back for a brief appearance in season three,
Speaker: And the fans loved him so much that the network went to the showrunner, whose name I don't like speaking anymore, and said, you need to bring him in as regular.
Speaker: yeah like you know right You don't kill him. Not only could they could he not kill them, he had to bring bring back this character who was created as a villain.
Speaker: yep as a regular character on the series and somehow integrate him into the main group of characters. i mean that happened To the point that this toxic showrunner threw James Marsters, the actor, up against the wall and berated him for the network's decision.
Speaker: But he went on to continue as a regular through the rest of the series of Buffy the Vampire Slayer with a logical for that character redemption arc and then moved over to the spinoff Angel for its final season as a regular.
Speaker: Well, that there's an actual example that I can talk about. A very powerful villain character in a piece of media in its second or third season.
Speaker: ah A reality warping trickster individual was brought in and they were very much liked by...
Speaker: by the characters, so they were given a a long redemption arc. Very interesting thing. think Wait, what am I talking about? Am I talking about Star Trek The Next Generation, or am I talking about My Little Pony? Because they're both played by John Delancey.
Speaker: Well, you must be talking about My Little Pony because Q was not a regular on Star Trek. True. ah The point is, it can definitely affect the storytelling even in just the sense that you don't want them to die.
Speaker: so it'll be great to see how they react if it happens. Like a death is a part of of all storytelling because, well, it is a part of everyone's story.
Speaker: oh So thinking about Buffy... Made me think of there is, depending on the game system that you're playing, it wouldn't work in Walking Dead. It wouldn't work in Alien.
Speaker: It may or may not work in Star Wars, but in something like Delta Green, it would definitely work. In D&D, it would definitely work. ah Robert, I know you have not watched Buffy.
Speaker: So what would you think if I told you that in the season five finale of a show titled Buffy the Vampire Slayer that ran for seven seasons, Buffy died?
Speaker: I would say I'd be waiting for the resurrection or getting her soul from hell or something. she was resurrected in season six and not only was that a way not only is that a way that you can just bring the character back if there is a means of resurrecting the character so that you know the character's death still weighs on them but if you borrow a page from buffy They resurrected her because given how she died and just the life that she lived and the purpose that she had, her friends were convinced that she was suffering in some hell dimension after death.
Speaker: ah And as someone who's done a lot of D&D campaigns, and there's a lot of D&D stories about like literally their characters, someone perished.
Speaker: and they literally go through true the planes of existence to the depths of a hell itself to reclaim someone's soul.
Speaker: And it's like, it's not an uncommon thing that resurrection can be itself a story arc.
Speaker: And- ahh or be used as a major crux, as a climax of a story arc. It's if they're restored life again by a deity, or through some sort of prophecy or wyss.
Speaker: Or honestly, it could even make enter team conflict, because I know in our D&D campaign, Public Situation Warriors, one of our players, Xander, plays a cleric to where Hopefully he comes back, but when he was playing it with us before his break, that my character, who's Orc of Edmiron fighter, who's gone through some dark stuff in his past to where he feels unworthy of the life he has, he's trying to be the best person he can be in remembrance of his best friend, even told Xander's Claire character,
Speaker: do you think eventually you may learn how to resurrect people or bring people back from the dead? Ben Zander's character said, it's possible. To which my character said, okay, but if I die, don't bring me back.
Speaker: Which could even cause an issue that if I were to die, his Clara character has to struggle between, do I honor his wish not to bring him back? Or do I forgo that and bring him back anyway?
Speaker: Because that's the nature of the storytelling. It's like, it's no longer a lot of people like, like well, we need the he's a DPS. He's strong fighter, it's like the storytelling is like, he made a vow to a cleric, a cleric who will honor his vows to his friends.
Speaker: Well, and that's that sort of conflict was in that same story on Buffy. Mm-hmm. The characters who were going to resurrect Buffy didn't tell her younger sister because, well, if it doesn't work, we don't want to get her hopes up because their mother had died in the previous season too. umhh And they also didn't want to tell... theories like that that's that episode was sta They
Speaker: they also didn't want to tell their adult mentor because he would try to prevent stop them from doing it. And then once Buffy is back, several episodes into her resurrection,
Speaker: she tells Spike, who we were talking about a few minutes ago, the vampire who is staying with the group out of na necessity and doing good out of necessity, because for reasons, he can no longer harm humans, only other demons.
Speaker: And so, well, I'll side with you guys because then I can get my violence fixed. But she confides in him no, I wasn't suffering in a hell dimension. i was in heaven. They ripped me out of heaven. Yeah. And that brings the added story of just kind of like that character either they're just thinking or maybe eventually snapping at the party. Like I was at peace. I was happy.
Speaker: Why did you bring me back? Again, again, it did. is as trite as a concept as it is sometimes death is not the end of a character's arc sometimes it creates arcs for the characters who are around and in settings where they can be brought back they have to wrestle with the fact that they are that they did paris that they experience regardless depending on what setting they're in like the afterlife or the nothingness if there is no afterlife in the setting either way they have to wrestle with the fact that they are back yeah it could be they are a quintessential example star wars if we were doing like a force of destiny campaign maybe a character dies but then on and off he they come back as a force ghost yeah they they Or yeah are they they are did that they are if they are a Darkseid user, that they could be summoned back as a as a phantom, of their but only like a memory of themselves.
Speaker: Or heck, if it's Darkseid spirit, possess someone. Yeah, there is a fight to work with. If you're in a system like a superhero system like Dante's Mutants and Masterminds game, or when we get around to me getting Marvel Multiverse on the table, or ah i meant to bring this up at the top of the show, I just read today, and I need to go out and look at it, that there is a quick start for an upcoming Justice League Unlimited RPG out on DriveThru.
Speaker: Oh yeah, I heard about that too. it's like did those are If you're in a or if you're in a a superhero cur settinging yeah superhero setting, there is the long-standing joke that you know in superhero heaven, the pearly gates are a revolving door.
Speaker: is like no one really stays dead yeah Except Uncle Ben. The rule used to be Uncle Ben and Bucky, but Bucky's back now, too. there The rule was Uncle ok Ben, Bucky, and Gwen Stacy.
Speaker: And a version of Gwen Stacy is back, too. yeah Or in the new Spider-Man, Aunt May as well. oh But, you know, that it's almost a given if you're in a superhero RPG that if a player character dies...
Speaker: yeah If I'm running it, my question is going to be, okay, are we doing a resurrection story for your character or do you want a new character? True, true. That's a fair discussion because that's part of the genre.
Speaker: Exactly. In a kind of like an inverted extreme sense, especially in Dante's Meeting in Masterminds, what if you're playing a character who's immortal?
Speaker: Like my character, Rocky, can't age. Like he can't die due to old age. He's immortal that way. And just like, again, another thing, is like in a superhero genre, there are legacy characters. Like, are you the next iteration of this character? Yeah, I mean, you have the man again, drawing media examples...
Speaker: one of the biggest comic stories that made worldwide mainstream news, the death of Superman.
Speaker: Superman died and there, there wasn't one, there wasn't two, there were four legacy characters who came in to take on the mantle. And then by the end of that story with the four of them, Superman himself was back.
Speaker: I mean, there is three in steel. Yeah. No, there was... I mean, Steel was one of the two longest lasting of those three. Lauren, his story, what if we go the the different way, like with the death of Robin, who then becomes Red Hood, either an anti-hero, or even having that character become an NPC villain with permission of the character. It's a resurrection and at the same time, that introduced Tim Drake, the
Speaker: as ah as a third. yeah There's a whole lot of ways to, like, honestly, like, death is one of the most those fundamental parts of life, so it's a fundamental part of storytelling.
Speaker: And so it is a fundamental part of, like, how, and again, like, it's the The bare bones of like role-playing games is it's a kind collaborative storytelling.
Speaker: Yes. And like life, there's no correct way to handle death or how you react to it. there's You can mourn it.
Speaker: You could... But the best way is to accept it as a part of the storytelling process. Unlike in real life, death...
Speaker: Definite role-playing game can be more therapeutic. It can be more impactful. But it doesn't have to be as, like, dramatic or strong.
Speaker: It can be a way to even express those emotions in a... capsulated way with everyone around you. In a controlled, safe environment where everybody has your back.
Speaker: Yes. It can be an interesting exploration of just like in general, like role-playing games can be a way to explore different aspects of yourself.
Speaker: Unique situations beyond your control. In a controlled area where you are with individuals that are like... And it is a thing that as we've discussed before, something like death should be The idea of like your characters parishing or becoming incapacitated to such a degree is something you should agree in Assassin Zero.
Speaker: Yes, I was actually going to bring that up because you also have to be addressed. This is kind of the extreme part of player GM dynamic that whatever player character has dies and that character just says.
Speaker: well, I was totally invested in that character. i don't really want to make a new one. I'll just leave the campaign. And that is something that should be discussed in Assassin's Zero. And if not discussed, should be something that the player characters should be feel honest and clear to speak with the GM about. Because again, there are some... It didn't happen in our campaign.
Speaker: pain, Daryl, but I'm pretty sure that if if Stephanie's Mando character Paris during our during our campaign, I don't Oh yeah, she goes she wouldn't have come back.
Speaker: Yeah, i yeah see i many love okay and I'll admit when we were still playing it, a part of me worried that when I killed your Nightwing character, you wouldn't really want to come back with somebody else.
Speaker: I mean, I i was debating... it To being fully honest, I was debating because you you know that i I'm going to borrow a phrase from Betsy here.
Speaker: i ah I appreciate Nightwing a perfectly normal amount. but I will say like Nightwing a perfectly normal amount. and Again, that's that's part of the quote-unquote social contract between GM and player.
Speaker: A player has but no no expectation to come back if they don't want to play the player the character they want to play as. If it so happens to Paris during the campaign, they have every right to i do leave the campaign because it's like, well, they don't want to play anything else.
Speaker: And that's fine. Yeah. and you i I debated it. i was like, you know, i i can't really think of another, you know, Batman slash DC based character that I would really want to play. And then all of a sudden I had the image of the original Azrael costume. and i was like, Ooh, if I, if I replace the flaming sword gauntlets with lightsaber gauntlets.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, that that honestly, like the, the, the weird thing is like you run, ah Walking Dead at my house. theyreols like it like yeah I didn't want to make a new... i don't I don't have a... I expected myself to go through multiple player characters, so I did make multiple player characters.
Speaker: But not this quickly. I don't have... I ran through with them. So I didn't want to have to like hastily create anything.
Speaker: Nor did I watch it from my house. because like We would have all just you know climbed the fence and played in your backyard by the pool.
Speaker: Yeah. we we would ah And we would have you let the squirrels play, too. Squirrels? I can't do it because rather than force myself to hastily construct a out of like ah parts and pieces.
Speaker: I'd rather come up with some real good ideas for season two. and just You just put me in NBC's and let you tell the story that you're telling because I really like where it's going. but it's again like I recognize that I don't have a player character to influence it now.
Speaker: But my player characters have influenced I will say that that's the point. My player characters who have passed have influenced the story and players going forward.
Speaker: Yeah, and it also allows me, as the GM, to kind of you know brainstorm different ways that I can provide opportunities to perhaps spark your imagination in coming up with a new character. Again, who knows what the the end result of this first season will be like i i gotta i am basically tabula rasa right now i have some ideas that i like i i know that ive i've mentioned maybe a doctor base because i've been watching the pit yeah we we've talked about you you know grabbing dr robbie and putting him in the walking dead which oh my god there's just a
Speaker: a walking recipe for trauma and drama. But again, I get, I'm willing to wait out before I even put pen to, to character seat before i even like come up by first.
Speaker: Cause I want to see like, where does this end? This, this season ended. Like what, what would the team need? What could create some unique drama and interest? Cause there's a lot,
Speaker: Depending on how this ends, this would be very interesting. I just had an idea. Especially if you don't decide to do a Dr. Robbie-inspired Doctor in Walking Dead.
Speaker: inbesy In between seasons one and two, I do like a two-shot of basically... walking dead in the pit.
Speaker: I literally take, like, I literally make not a character inspired by Robbie, but I make Dr. Michael Rabinovich, and I make Abbott. I make the characters who would be around then. you know Obviously, characters like Mel and Whitaker and all of that, they're too young.
Speaker: But I i make... Robbie and i I make his mentor who died during COVID as pre-gens and put all of you in Pittsburgh and they're they're trying to keep the the hospital as like a safe place.
Speaker: oh Oh. was going to would this be after the outbreak or like when it starts? Yes. So like, you're the walking dead.
Speaker: not not yeah like you You're basically like all these patients are coming in, you have no idea what's wrong with them, and then... ah you start again okay then yeah And then things go parachute. Oh! Oh! That's it. I don't know if Dante would want to do this. What if we what if he brings Yothi back?
Speaker: Yothi Oran's in episode... Of Yothi.
Speaker: so So now going to do a one or two shot in between the seasons The Walking Dead down in the pit. Oh!
Speaker: That's a good one. Yeah, but as you said, Nick, yeah. And honestly, it's fun to play the NPCs. but what Whether you're actually in the game or not, as I've learned.
Speaker: just Just a little bit of like it could just both add like Depth of field or a little bit of like levity in scenes that bit more extreme.
Speaker: Either way, it's it adds... Honestly, I feel that that's something that maybe... yeah I don't have a proper term for this, having your players round out the cast when you don't actually need them to be rounding out the cast adds so much to it.
Speaker: It helps them to actually feel alive as well and not and take a page out of the boys' book, Daryl. It's not like RWBY Season 1 where it's it's either them or the dark silhouettes that don't do anything.
Speaker: it it it It makes NPCs just a little bit more richer, a little bit more filled in, and makes the world a little bit more lived in.
Speaker: I just sent Dante a question asking him if he has anything in Yothi's background saying where he interned. Because again, honestly, like if there was like if there was like a a petition for if we were AMCs to walk King Dead, I'm pretty sure people were like, can we get a Yothi flashback episode?
Speaker: I feel like we could do a... It wasn't in the actual Walking Dead show, but it's like there's just one season where we take each surviving character just be like, where were they during the outbreak?
Speaker: Yeah, I can... that that can be our so mid That can be our break between seasons every time. they're like, where was Yothi? Where was Tay? Where was... i don't even remember your first character, Nick, the soldier guy. Then where was Hank? Where it was...
Speaker: Like, it's ah it's a fun way of, like, reinventing, giving a bit, like, more depth. aspe And again, that's a good way of expanding on deceased characters, giving giving them a spotlight that they wouldn't normally have.
Speaker: Yes. And another fun thing we do is that since we're playing on The Walking Dead show, Whenever someone dies, we joke that on Talking with the Dead, we hide their player actor.
Speaker: Otherwise, they would know who died that episode. Yep. hey Or we joke joining us for the third time his after this. Nick. It's like, yeah, i'm I'm back here again. back. I'm back.
Speaker: but that up oh you You may hear my voice, but I'm going to be doing some those voice acting for for some of the NPCs next time.
Speaker: I'm going to be joining the voice cast of Invincible. okay
Speaker: I'm playing Invincible. Which, you know... I've got the Invincible RPG coming from Free League through Kickstarter. Same. i yeah i don't I'll be voicing Viltrumite number 7 through 10.
Speaker: you don't need to know their names. i just cause i mean yeah If you look back at the premiere of Invincible, the Guardians of the Globe were all voiced by Walking Dead cast members.
Speaker: And Conquest is voiced by Jeffrey D. Morgan. And Invincible himself is Steven Yeun. That's why everyone joked. Rematch.
Speaker: They got their rematch. Any other thoughts that we have on character death? Now that I have another idea to brainstorm for the relatively near future. oh I'm going to be up until 2 a.m. now.
Speaker: Well, one just Death will always set the mood, especially if they die to the villain or the antagonist. Because it'll be like, oh, they're a credible threat. They just killed one of my friends.
Speaker: Stuff like that. That can help. As we've talked about in ending in our episode about when should you kill a PC, it can be a point where death can solidify that this is a big bad. This is a dangerous person. Same thing as you mentioned with NPCs as well, but...
Speaker: In general, like, just in... Again, remember that role-playing games are a storytelling medium, and death is usually used to punctuate something.
Speaker: Either to impact, like, as you said, like, a the the threat of a villain, or to bring an end to a character's story arc, or to inspire someone to continue going forward.
Speaker: Either way, like... Tropes exist for a reason, and there's a lot of death tropes. Where would Luke be if if Ben of didn't didn't pass on the Death Star?
Speaker: Where would Luke be if Aunt Beru and Uncle Lars didn't die on Tatooine? Exactly. Death has its place storytelling. You know that they faked their deaths.
Speaker: Those are just rubber skeletons. today They fix their deaths. No, I mean, you saw the final episode of the Obi-Wan Kenobi series. Beru took out the Stormtroopers single-handedly and then was like, hey, wait a second.
Speaker: We can get away from this kid now. He's gotten really damn whiny as he got old. The Vlod of the Great Skeletons. No, they took Stormtrooper skeletons and put them out there.
Speaker: And then they they ran off to Tosche Station, got some power converters, and then got off a Tatooine. I'm sorry, Nick. I derailed what you were actually saying.
Speaker: did Did they get power converters or were they the power converters? Yes. I'm sorry. I derailed what you were saying. Oh, no, it's pretty funny. was just saying that death is a storytelling mechanic, and you should always accept that it has many uses, and just, like, every trope, every piece of fictional mechanic, it can always be used in a different way.
Speaker: Yep, and... That's all I got. this That's all I've got, unless... unless you the The big harbinger of death is always... Squirrel!
Speaker: Yes, because cause I've noticed a trend, Nick. You always say you don't want squirrels in your house, yet you will always stay outside for five minutes or more with the door just completely open when you say goodbye to us.
Speaker: So that youre you're basically inviting the squirrels in.
Speaker: I remember that one time he was about to let us out, but we saw that bunny. Yeah. He was scared of the bunny. Because butt bunnies are faster than squirrels. Yes. well and i mean you know But can can you blame him for being scared ah of the rabbit? Because I've seen Monty Python and and the Holy Grail. Look at the bones, man!
Speaker: yes Well, the good news is the rabbit was in white. But it had big, sharp, pointy teeth. but it didnt it didn't it didnt It did have like a stopwatch.
Speaker: I'm not only going down that rabbit hole. but don dont And actually, that reminds me, because I'm sure they have it Let me think.
Speaker: So, Nick, but when you were watching, while Robert's looking that up, when you watched Animaniacs when you were younger, could you sit through the slappy squirrel segments?
Speaker: You know, I always had a bit bit of like a trepidation whenever I watch it. I think it was just like a psychic thing. Like the me from the future was sending myself, my kid self, a message. It's like not to trust those things.
Speaker: Hey, Nick, do you know what's on January 21st? January 21st? Yes. Oh. That is National Squirrel Appreciation Day. Squirrel!
Speaker: No. It celebrated annually on January 21st to recognize the over 200 species of squirrels and the role in the system. easy um yep Wait.
Speaker: Oh, Nick. Something that just occurred to me. Okay, ah anyone who is not caught up on Daredevil Born Again Season 2 and who has not seen Episode 6 yet, cover your ears. It's also National Hog day Yes, you can actually thank this guy, Rehabilitator Christy Hargrove, for getting the date.
Speaker: hey Hey, Nick, you you saw a Daredevil this week, right? yes. So you you saw that they introduced Jessica and Luke's daughter, Danielle, right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker: You remember who her babysitter was? Oh, no, no, no, no. no Her babysitter is the unbeatable squirrel girl. Nick's catatonic now.
Speaker: Yeah. May have gone a little too hard this time. Yeah, hope hopefully hopefully he can do his part of the closing here because it's time for me to say, check out our website at howwerollgaming.com and there you'll find information about our current campaigns, our podcast archive, and links to all of our social media and our merch store. And speaking of which, there's just over a month left as we record this near the end of April to get the Nat1 crying is a free action shirt before it goes away and our 2026 Roll with Pride collection launches at the beginning of June.
Speaker: Yes, you can also you can also directly support the show through Patreon. Just go to patreon.com slash howryrollgaming and you'll see our different membership tiers starting in just $2 a month with special recognition on our Discord server and higher tiers giving you on-air credit and discounts on our merch store so you can get that in that one shirt. All right, finally.
Speaker: If you have any questions you'd like us to answer, topics you'd like us to cover, or even submit your own rvg Glory story, choose an email at podcasts at howrerollgaming.com.
Speaker: And we want to thank everybody for listening and for joining us. And we hope that you will join us again next time. Until then, as always, I'm Daryl.
Speaker: I'm Nick. And I'm Robert. And this is How We Roll.
Speaker: This episode of the How We Roll Gaming podcast is copyright 2026, How We Roll Gaming, LLC. All games and associated intellectual properties are copyright their respective owners, and How We Roll Gaming makes no claim of ownership by discussing them here.
