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Roll Credits - Adapting Other Media to RPGs
17 Plays7 days ago
On this episode, Daryl is joined by guest co-host Lauren to talk about RPGs adapted from movies, TV, books, and more. What do they expect when a favorite franchise becomes a tabletop game? They break down what makes these adaptations succeed—or fall flat—and what designers need to capture to make them truly shine at the table.
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Identity
00:00:02
Speaker
with the coachman D20 Radio. at Your game is rolled.
00:00:17
Speaker
How will We Roll Gaming is dedicated to spreading enjoyment of great role-playing games. We hope to bring you insights into games you may not have played, tips to be a better game master and player, and share us stories of momentous events at our tables.
00:00:29
Speaker
Every game is a new story to tell. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And here's Robert. And this is How We Roll.
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome back to the How We Roll Gaming Podcast. And it really is the How We Roll Gaming Podcast. As I was editing last episode, I realized that In the intro, I welcomed everyone to our sister podcast, Casual Nerdity, which, hey, great. If if that spurred you to listen, awesome.
00:01:03
Speaker
We appreciate you listening to Casual Nerdity. But... But this is the How We Roll Gaming podcast. And this
Co-hosts & Gaming Activities
00:01:14
Speaker
is Daryl. And I'm here without Robert and without Nick because due to a work scheduling thing for me at the end of this week when we would normally be recording, I'll be out of town for work.
00:01:29
Speaker
Robert wasn't available tonight. And Nick, I i think Nick died. Oh, no. think Thanos snapped Nick away or something. Nick was going to show up and well, now he hasn't been here.
00:01:44
Speaker
But I have a special guest co-host. Yes. Our co-host for the Clone Watch sub-series over on Casual Nerdity, friend of the show and past guest host. Welcome our friend, Lauren, everybody. Welcome, Lauren.
00:02:01
Speaker
It's me again. It's a you. And you said that this wasn't the casual nerdity podcast. I mean, it sure feels like it. Yeah. We're not talking about Clone Wars. No, we're not talking about Clone Wars. Well, not yet. Anyway, we might get a little bit.
00:02:20
Speaker
to tell we Maybe, maybe. but This is the part of the show where we normally catch up on what we've been doing, particularly gaming-wise, lately. And so ah it's been quite a while since you've been on the show, Lauren, but what have you been doing recently gaming-wise?
00:02:40
Speaker
Well, I've been playing quite a few Metroidvanias in recent history. In particular, ah within the past month, I actually beat Super Metroid for the first time. And the I also went through a game called Toho Luna Nights, where you play as one of the characters, Sakya, who has time manipulation abilities. And it is also Metroidvania, very much focused on the Castlevania part of it.
00:03:07
Speaker
And then I've also started playing Tevi, which is a mechanical successor to the video game Rabi Rebe, considered a masterclass in Metroidvania game design.
00:03:21
Speaker
And also a game that I've made a Let's Play of before. a Sweet. So that might be something that you might want to check out if you see a particular connection to this video.
00:03:37
Speaker
But yes, Tevi is not not as mechanically sound as RabiRibi was, unfortunately. A lot of the world design is much looser.
00:03:48
Speaker
there there's It's a much bigger world, but there's only about as much stuff to collect in it. So a lot of stuff is really... spread out the pacing's a little bit odd but the combat mechanics are definitely an improvement and i'd say that tonally i prefer tevi over rabbi rebe the the the games are not connected narratively to each other but they are they're made by the same person so mechanically they mechanically tevi's fundamentally built on top of rabbi rebe's foundations
00:04:21
Speaker
And so yeah, that that's been my gaming activities. What about you, Daryl? What have you been up to?
Role-Playing Game Reflections
00:04:30
Speaker
Well, our our gaming slate has been kind of light. i for For my video game console, I couldn't tell you when the last time I picked up the controller was.
00:04:40
Speaker
Ah, I see. it And for our tabletop gaming... It's been pretty light. We've had a couple of light weekends. This is true. weeksks Yes. Very true. We, we played Robert's of Legend of the Five Rings. Yep. That was a lot of fun weekend. And I got to. Yes.
00:05:02
Speaker
yes The next day was my Walking Dead game, yeah which yeah only about half of the group was there. And after just a few hours, we kind of hit a wall where any further forward movement was going to require the rest of the group.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yes, it is a very character-centric game, at least the version that we run. And so yes having a lot of the characters missing meant that there wasn't a whole lot we could reasonably do. Even the stuff that we did manage to do kind of involved controlling one of the player's characters to some degree. yes And I did let her know about that at this past weekend's Mutants and Masterminds game.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yes. and And she was there for it. she She was all in on what I said we had established. Yes. But then we had Mutants and Masterminds, which was kind of similar, and that we were really only missing one person.
00:05:59
Speaker
Yeah. But we we basically reached, I wouldn't necessarily say a boss fight. A climax. Yeah, we hit that climax of a storyline where the the villains that we had defeated up to this point were all back together.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yes. And so... It got called a little early. Yeah, we we couldn't do that without the whole team. Yeah. So, that got called a little early, too. We might not have been able to succeed without the entire team as well. Exactly! Exactly.
00:06:33
Speaker
But i am I am totally loving that Mutants and Masterminds game. Oh, yeah, it's great. I'm very much looking forward to whenever we get to create our own characters.
00:06:45
Speaker
Yep. I just... I kind of want to try translating the character that i played in, that I created in my DC heroes campaign back in high school and college because I had fun with that character. And now with all of these years of better role-playing experience and life experience yeah under my belt, I think I would have even more fun with him.
00:07:12
Speaker
Plus, well, I also kind of, unintentionally overpowered him partway through that old campaign? Oh, yeah. I accidentally did that one time myself. Well, so he so here's what happened. and And spoiler alert, I'll be talking about DC Heroes a little later, probably.
00:07:35
Speaker
But we we had a We had a big session where we actually adapted DC's miniseries Crisis on Infinite Earths for a game.
00:07:51
Speaker
All right. And we we didn't beat for beat do all 12 issues as they were published, but we basically made a justification for why our characters were there.
00:08:04
Speaker
And we were also in a setting that was a combined DC and Marvel universe. So we were rationalizing why the Marvel characters were there too. mean, it's multiverse shenanigans. You can justify anything multiverse shenanigans. Well, it it wasn't multiverse. and but Basically, we lived on the Earth that the early DC-Marvel crossovers took place in. Ah, so the car really early ones where they made a new Earth.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, well, where where the characters basically lived on the same Earth all along. Wait, wait. And had just never... is is this so that So this isn't Justice League versus Avengers, because they also made an Earth like that in that crossover, but you're talking about the ones before that one.
00:08:53
Speaker
ah Right, right. No, this is way before JLA Avengers. Right, right. and And so this this was just kind kind of our way of having some fun rationalizing it, because instead of the five universes that got merged down into the post-crisis DC universe, there were seven.
00:09:12
Speaker
Ah, yes. There was the Marvel universe, and there was the universe where all of our characters were separate. Nice. Yeah. And, you know, and we did this well after we had been playing. We just like, Hey, let's do it. This will be fun.
00:09:26
Speaker
i would, I was one of the two or three rotating GMs and I was like, this will be fun adapting crisis this way. And we'll go on go on all of these little side missions that weren't part of the mini series. And then we'll be involved in the big final battle.
00:09:41
Speaker
This sounds fun. Yeah. Sounds cool. And, um, because of that, because of the epic nature of it, all of the characters got a lot of XP.
00:09:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. As a result of playing crisis. Yes. And now my character had light based powers. OK. He could generate a glow. He could fire energy blasts. um He could create a brilliant flash of light. um He could turn invisible.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah. By controlling the light and he could fly. And um kind of low-level powers where we had been playing at. And with all of this XP that I got, pumped it into his glow power and his flash power. Mm-hmm.
00:10:32
Speaker
And I didn't pay attention to what I was doing. Mm-hmm. And the way the way the stats worked in DC Heroes, because it came out pre-Crisis. Mm-hmm.
00:10:44
Speaker
So you had they had to have ways for the stats to balance out having a street-level character like Batman operating side-by-side with the pre-crisis Superman.
00:11:01
Speaker
Yes, makes sense. Who, as as was commonly exaggerated, could juggle planets. Mm-hmm. And so the stat values were a geometric progression.
00:11:18
Speaker
yeah So if having a stat of two in strength means that you can lift 100 pounds, a stat of three means you can lift 200, four means 400, five 800,
00:11:34
Speaker
means four hundred five is eight hundred and so on yeah and And that's how you can have Superman and not have these huge, insane numbers for stats.
00:11:46
Speaker
a Well, I pumped all of that crazy XP into his glow and his flash, and I don't remember what stat number they were up to.
00:12:00
Speaker
We were one or two games into playing with my numbers that way, and i was like, okay, I'm going to this guy in the art in this suit of armor has grabbed me from behind. I'm just going to reach my hands back on the face plate of his helmet and, you know, flash it full power. And then I just i looked up. off i I didn't blast his head off, but I looked up, uh, we were trying to figure out what that was equivalent to. And there wasn't,
00:12:35
Speaker
benchmark values for um for Flash, but there was for Glow, which I also had. And I want to say that I had Glow and Flash at like 29, and the benchmarks said that Glow of like 20 was equivalent to the brightness of a nuclear blast.
00:13:01
Speaker
Ah, I see. So I melted the dude's eyes out. Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, and I didn't do that on purpose.
00:13:14
Speaker
That was just an accident, but yeah, but yeah I kind of kind of overpowered him. So i I would like a chance to play with the same kind of power set, some of the same character elements to him, but not get him so overpowered so quickly. Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yes. Meanwhile, the character that I'm definitely going to want to be is, well, you might notice, viewers, that whenever I'm talking, there's a character there.
00:13:46
Speaker
Her name is Infinity Amoeba, and she's got stretchy powers. And done I'm going to make Infinity Amoeba, or at the very least, I'm going to try. I don't know how the stretchy powers work within this context, but hopefully it'll be a good time for everyone.
00:14:03
Speaker
I don't either, because we appear to be between editions of Mutants and Masterminds. Because I have not been able to find... We're playing third edition. I haven't been able to find the third edition books anywhere. And Green Ronin recently announced that they are going to launch a Kickstarter soon for fourth edition.
00:14:24
Speaker
I see. So we' we'll see. But yes, i you're going to create Infinity Amoeba. I am going to recreate Spotlight.
00:14:35
Speaker
And we're going to save the world. Yes. And you Spotlight is an obnoxious 16 year old. Lovely. Well, Infinity Amoeba is basically a living cartoon character. So we're going to it's going to be great. ah We're going to have fun.
00:14:55
Speaker
or Yeah. fun We're going to we're going annoy everybody. Yes. And I can only imagine what kind of character Betsy will make. And the the way our characters bounce off of one another should be rather entertaining.
00:15:11
Speaker
Dante is going to an island. Yes. Well, let's say we we get started with the actual show. You have seen the show notes. I will pass along Nick's part of our cross-promotion to you.
00:15:26
Speaker
Yes, it's time for me to do Nick's job and say... Before we get into this episode's fun, we want to let you know about another great show on the D20 Radio Network, the Eberron Renewed podcast.
00:15:39
Speaker
Eberron Renewed is an actual play podcast that focuses on long-form storytelling and character development. The show is currently 70 plus episodes into their third campaign, and it's a lot of fun.
00:15:54
Speaker
You can catch Eberron Renewed with Game Master Eric, Mia, Philip, Madison, and Jeff wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. You're hired. Yeah, I did it. I'm hired. did the next job. You're hired. i finally have a job.
00:16:10
Speaker
We don't pay. Yeah.
00:16:15
Speaker
will Will you pay me after we start getting some ah some some patrons on Patreon? Maybe. don't But we'll get to that later. Yeah, later. What we're going to be talking about tonight is, I kind of touched on it by saying,
00:16:31
Speaker
I'll probably be talking about DC heroes in a little bit, but we're going to be talking about adapting other media into RPGs, whether that's movies, TV, comics, even video games into a tabletop role-playing game, because there's a lot of RPGs that are based on existing IPs
Adapting Media to RPGs
00:16:52
Speaker
out there. We mentioned another one a little bit ago when I said we played my walking dead game.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. we'll undoubtedly be talking that it and talking about that one imminently. Absolutely. And just to to kind of kick things up, kick kick things up?
00:17:09
Speaker
I can't talk tonight. Kick things off. um I kind of came up with this general question. So what do you look for in an adaptation of other media to an RPG? And what makes it a successful or unsuccessful adaptation?
00:17:26
Speaker
Hmm. Yes, yes. I think, I think it in great part, it depends on what the media is in the first place, because what you want to do with it is highly variable, depending on what the media initially is going for in the first place.
00:17:42
Speaker
But I think, generally speaking, being able to recreate the appeal of the original work through mechanical means is ah very important overall. Now, of course, a lot of the adaptations that we play together are from media that I am not particularly familiar with. However, on my own time, I do run my own games from related to media that I am familiar with.
00:18:11
Speaker
But also the media that I am familiar with is video games, whereas most of the games that we play together are either movies or TV shows. So the, there's definitely going to be, uh, some differences in focus, you know, whenever, whenever adapting a video game into a tabletop format, you want to represent the mechanics of the game to the best degree that you can.
00:18:37
Speaker
in But how that looks is going to be very different depending on the genre of video game. And I'll definitely be elaborating on that further whenever I get more specifically into those systems. But, uh,
00:18:50
Speaker
whenever Whenever adapting a show or a movie, I feel like there's going to be different focuses there because obviously they don't have gameplay mechanics to adapt. And so being the one more familiar with the source materials for our game or for our movie and TV show series, what how how do you feel about adapting those mediums?
00:19:10
Speaker
I think when i when I go to play a game that's based on a movie or a TV show or a comic, yes I'm looking for something that replicates the the tone of the property that replicates the kind of stories that are told there and part of doing that is it will hit some of the tropes of that particular series.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yes, yes, absolutely. For instance, Walking Dead. well We'll go ahead and mention it since we've already brought it up a couple of times. The Walking Dead RPG, Free League, did an awesome job of capturing the tone.
00:19:53
Speaker
Because they use their year zero engine, the same one that they use for Alien. And this this kind of applies to Alien, too. Yeah. Free League captured the tones of those because there's this constant sense of dread and that danger could be lurking around any corner.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yes, these are theories where, like, anybody can die, pretty much. Right, anybody can die. No one has plot armor, really, and They've replicated that with their stress mechanic, where stressful moments can get you a stress die added in that you have to mechanically get rid of. Because if you think about it, the characters in these stories or a person in real life doesn't just say, okay, I was stressed out.
00:20:47
Speaker
when I did this one action, but I no longer have that stress five minutes later, you know, that, that carries through and that stress brings with it the potential to bring more of that dread that, yes that the setting brings with it.
00:21:07
Speaker
And I also like that both of those systems treat the, the enemies, the, the walkers, the zombies, or the aliens, more as forces of nature than as other characters.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yes, yes. In particular, in the alien RPG, the GM doesn't really control the aliens a substantial amount. The alien attacks are randomized. Yeah, they're randomized by a die, and it's completely out of the GM's hands. And Nick and I picked up a trick from our friend Brev, who is the first one who ran Alien for us the first time we got to play it.
00:21:51
Speaker
And a lot of times, we don't even roll for the aliens. Ah, yes. We will say... Yeah, we'll say, like, ah okay... yeah you know Lauren and Alien, you you round a corner and there's a xenomorph. ah Robert, roll me a d6.
00:22:11
Speaker
e And let that determine the attack. yeah Because that's how the alien is statted out. there In Walking Dead, they're even more of a force of nature.
00:22:23
Speaker
i The walkers don't have stats for an attack. Yes. You basically have if If you encounter a swarm of walkers, you attack, and if you fail, they get through your attack.
00:22:42
Speaker
And then you just you roll on the zombie attack table. Yep. They're really more of an environmental hazard than wind. Yeah. And that fits for the fact that there's there's usually so many of them that trying to individually stat them out or individually roll for them would be like overwhelming for everybody involved. Yes. that that You thought D&D combat was long. Mm-hmm.
00:23:11
Speaker
But those are the things that I kind of look for. I want to replicate the tone. I want to replicate the feel. I want to feel like, hey, I just played through an episode of Star Trek.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yes. I just played through an alien movie. I just played through a Star Wars movie or a Star Wars Disney Plus TV show.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yes. You know, speaking of Star Wars, Yes, we never do that on this show. Yes, we never talk about Star Wars on this show, or or the show that I'm normally a part of. Never. We would never do such a thing. but So I want to ask you, because you're obviously very familiar with Star Wars, not only the primary media, but also secondary media, and naturally the tabletop game, having run it yourself a number of times.
00:24:06
Speaker
what what What do you feel is the primary appeal to Star Wars? And how do you feel the Star Wars tabletop game mechanically replicates or emulates or just otherwise or otherwise represents that appeal?
00:24:26
Speaker
the The appeal of Star Wars itself is... it's hard to put into words. It's a space opera fairy tale.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yes. And um to, to quote YouTuber Patrick Willems, it is a story about space with wizards with laser swords created for children.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. had do that And if, if you can buy into that and, On top of that, it does layer on messaging. Like the best stories for kids, it layers on things for the older audiences to to latch on to. Naturally. you You have in Star Wars a story of, yeah without getting too current eventy, you have a story about a world or a galaxy, if you will.
00:25:29
Speaker
that goes through generational cycles of having to fend off fascism yes and and evil and darkness.
00:25:41
Speaker
And it again, without getting too current eventy, when episode nine came out and there was the line that became infinitely memed, somehow Palpatine returned and even with episode seven, people were like,
00:26:01
Speaker
this galaxy just defeated the evil empire. How in the world could the evil empire come back? And now here, just a few years after that, you just gesture vaguely at the landscape of the world new And so, you know, it's, it's a timeless story for better or for worse. And to that second part of the question,
00:26:30
Speaker
Boy, you asked a loaded question. I mean, i guess. The reason I say you asked a loaded question is there have been three Star Wars RPGs up to this point.
00:26:42
Speaker
Ah, yes. i i remember that now. And of course talking about the one that we play, that the Genesis system spun off from, primarily. Right, and i'll I'll briefly touch on the first two.
00:26:55
Speaker
okay The first one, which came out in 87, so that was still early days of the RPG market, and with the kinds of... RPG mechanics that were available at the time, it did a really good job of cat capturing everything. On top of which, you know just just between us, well, I won't say just between us because a lot of people know this at this point, West End Games, who created that first Star Wars RPG, are responsible for building the spine of all of that ancillary media that would come.
00:27:31
Speaker
Yes, yes, I think I've heard about that. So, you know, all that existed when they got the license was Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back.
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah. And Return of the Jedi and the droids cartoon, the Ewoks cartoon. And I think the Ewoks TV movies. That was it. now Don't don't forget about the holiday special.
00:27:55
Speaker
And the holiday special. And the holiday special. That was it. But really and truly what it boils down to is it was those first three movies. And to create a world that could be expanded on in a role-playing game for players to play, they had to start creating...
00:28:18
Speaker
what exists outside of the confines of those three movies. you know that There's an evil empire. there's an evil empire How does it work? in How did it come to power?
00:28:32
Speaker
What kind of of ships and weapons does it have at its disposal? What is the rank and file of the Imperial military? What's the rank and file of the rebel military structure?
00:28:46
Speaker
Because that's probably who your characters are going to be. Probably. um And so they built a lot of that. So...
00:28:58
Speaker
to the point that when the ancillary media really started up in 1991 with the Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy, there'd been a few novels before that, but know, they kind of quietly came and went.
00:29:13
Speaker
in This was the big push to bring star Wars back into media. Oh, I see. yeah, when he started writing the first of those three books, Heir to the Empire, Lucasfilm gave him the source books from the West End games. Oh, all right.
00:29:35
Speaker
And said, here's the stuff that exists. Mm-hmm. And so they built that framework that everything else came from after that. So they kind of had that advantage there that they were building the sandbox.
00:29:53
Speaker
Interesting. no you know i Lucas built the backyard and West End built the sandbox in that backyard. Yes, I've previously mentioned that one of the strengths of Star Wars as a franchise is just how much of it there is in that even if one thing doesn't necessarily click with you, there is probably a lot more out there that might click with you because there's just so much media. But creating a tabletop game for the franchise during a period of time where that wasn't fundamentally true, there wasn't a ton of Star Wars. If yeah you didn't like the movies...
00:30:33
Speaker
there just wasn't star Wars for you at that point. Yeah. It's a, it sounds like it was a very different experience. And I, I don't expect you remember all of the mechanics off the top of your head, but is there any, any mechanic that stood out to you as like, how that this, this is what.
00:30:52
Speaker
The mechanics were super simple. You just use dice pools of D sixes. Alright, alright. So like let's say that your strength, I don't remember exactly what everything was, but strength is a stat in every RPG, right?
00:31:11
Speaker
Yeah, basically. um Your stat might be 2d plus 1. Which means you roll 2d6s, add them up, and add 1 to the total.
00:31:27
Speaker
Right. And if you got up to plus after either at or after plus three, it just added another die into the pool.
00:31:39
Speaker
And that's it. You had a target number that you had to hit and you just rolled a different number of D sixes, potentially adding a slight bonus to it based on what that stat was.
00:31:53
Speaker
It was super simple. It was crazy easy to learn. Nice. Had a real simple learning curve. The way the force worked in it was there were three different force stats, control, sense, and alter, which also used D6s.
00:32:11
Speaker
And different force powers fell under one ah one or more of those different force skills. I see. And that's that's how you used the Force.
00:32:27
Speaker
And the way it represented the dark side just was more of a subjective thing that um if you did something that was quote-unquote bad, yeah then you got dark side points. And once your character accumulated enough dark side points, they fell to the dark side, went evil, and became an adversary NPC controlled by the GM.
00:32:56
Speaker
Ooh, I see. Very cyberpunk of them. And so that that's it. It was super simple mechanics.
00:33:08
Speaker
West End lost the license. Wizards of the Coast got the license. And they did possibly the most boring thing that you could do. And they made Star Wars in the D&D D20 system.
00:33:23
Speaker
ah The current one of the time, which was 3.5, think. i think Well, you know, that actually brings me to to my next question, actually. Because, so, a lot of people, whenever they hear tabletop games, ah their brain just automatically goes to D&D. They think that D&D is tabletop games. They're synonymous with each other.
00:33:46
Speaker
And in that regard, a lot of people, instead of looking for a game that is specifically designed for a particular franchise or is specifically designed to reflect at least a certain type of narrative, ah they instead just go to D&D and just...
00:34:06
Speaker
paint repaints all of the figures to be a different genre or, you know, re rename things to be different, to be different stats or, you know, just, just mod D and D basically.
00:34:19
Speaker
And so that that's understandable. Yeah. I think that's understandable because D&D is the 800-pound gorilla. Yes, it it is understandable. But this does bring me to my question where, you know, obviously the the Star Wars tabletop game is specifically designed to run Star Wars games.
00:34:40
Speaker
And so what makes the Star Wars tabletop game suited to do that in a way that just modding D&D would not be suited to doing that?
00:34:53
Speaker
You know, like, what what makes the Star Wars game specifically Star Wars beyond just the names of things? What makes it Star Wars, mechanically speaking? You know you know what I'm saying? that the You're talking about the current narrative dice system, the FFG Edge one?
00:35:11
Speaker
Generally speaking, but I mean, you can also refer to the to the first one as well, you know? Well, the... the first one The first one got a Star Wars feel mostly because of all of the fluff.
00:35:23
Speaker
And we were all excited that, oh, we have new Star Wars content, even if it's an RPG. Right, right. um The current system, and and I was about to to get on into this. Right, The current system, the FFG Edge system, what I really like about it, what I think gives a...
00:35:46
Speaker
very Star Wars feel is that it's not a pass fail binary. Right. Right. Because you have the positive dice and the negative dice and you balance out and there's successes and failures and advantage and threat. Right.
00:36:03
Speaker
it's but it's possible to succeed, but something bad still happens. um You know, you're you're Han Solo on the Death Star. You are chasing the stormtroopers down the hallway and you roll a success on your ah your coercion.
00:36:23
Speaker
if And that has them running away from you. Yes. But you also rolled threat on that coercion and you round the corner and And there's an entire hangar full of stormtroopers who turn the tables on you.
00:36:38
Speaker
a Or the the opposite, and this is my go-to example, you can fail with advantage. So you can fail at what you're trying to do, but something good happens. My go-to example is always you're firing at those stormtroopers who've turned around and turned the tables on you.
00:36:59
Speaker
You miss them, but you have advantage. You have failures, but you have advantage. So for those advantage, I hit the door controls and close the blast doors so they can't chase after me anymore.
00:37:12
Speaker
and And, you know, I think i think that this ah this threat and advantage system really takes advantage of the the tabletop environment in a way that a video game fundamentally couldn't.
00:37:29
Speaker
Because, you know, right in in something that's more binary, like D&D, for example, it's possible to create a video game within that confine. You might not be able to represent absolutely everything that, you know, a storyteller can weave into it, but the fundamental mechanics can be replicated with consistency in a video game format.
00:37:51
Speaker
but with a more loose format, with things like advantage and disadvantage, they they do have explicit mechanical functions, but they also more emphasize narrative functions. They emphasize you manipulating the environment in ways that are beyond just what your character does. They emphasize what I like to call narrative manipulation abilities.
00:38:19
Speaker
Things that your character didn't really do, but it's more like you, the player, are kind of operating as the hand of fate within that circumstance, in a way. Yeah.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. Very much so. And that's that's something that you can only really get in a tabletop setting. A video game... can't really do that effectively. it It would be very difficult and very restrictive if you tried. Yeah, ah a video k game can try to emulate that by having, okay, well, you know if this happens...
00:38:58
Speaker
here are half a dozen branching possibilities of something else that might happen. But those are all hard coded. Whereas with a tabletop game, nothing is hard coded, really.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yes. Those advantages can be I hit the door controls or um I find a convenient unlocked door to my right and they keep going past me or whatever.
00:39:26
Speaker
Or there's another more important hero who shows up on a different balcony. Yeah. And they focus on that guy instead. Yeah. all All sorts of things could go in. And that's what I loved.
00:39:40
Speaker
When I first got invited to one of Nick's games using this system, and I was in the process of starting to plan out.
00:39:51
Speaker
I had been wanting to play Star Wars RPG again. i had never I had seen the FFG system in the store, but I had never played it. I see. And so i was going to be using the first edition West End rules.
00:40:08
Speaker
Because I knew them. They were simple. And friends of ours invited me to a new campaign that Nick was starting. And after the first couple of sessions, i was like,
00:40:21
Speaker
oh, this is kind of fun. I like this. And our son was still young. He was about 13, 14 at the time. And he had expressed interest in playing the campaign that I was going to run.
00:40:34
Speaker
And he came along with me to Nick's one day and he started off sitting in the corner just playing playing his 3DS. Oh, yeah. And as the game went on,
00:40:46
Speaker
He was inching closer and closer because he was drawn in by what was going on in the session. Yeah. And then he just Nick invited him to come back again if he wanted to and bring a character, which he did.
00:40:59
Speaker
And so at that point, I was like, OK, since he's never played a tabletop RPG before, it will be easier to teach him a single rule set. yeah Plus, this system is fun, so I'm converting my campaign to this because we haven't started yet. So ya that was easy enough to do. And I haven't looked back since.
00:41:21
Speaker
ah Makes sense.
00:41:26
Speaker
So, yes. What do you find successful about the... trend Obviously, you find something successful about the translations of the games that you're running.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yes. So for for context, the games that I run consist Gensou Narratograph, which is based on the Toho Project series of video games, and also Net Battlers, which is based on the Mega Man Battle Network series of video games.
00:41:55
Speaker
And so I'm going to start with Toho first. And so Toho is primarily a series of bullet hell video games.
Toho Project Series Discussion
00:42:05
Speaker
It started in the late 90s.
00:42:08
Speaker
ah And so the bullet hell genre, it's it's, you know, Galaga. Yes. It's like Galaga, but way more intense.
00:42:19
Speaker
ah Bullet hell games are generally considered to be one of the most difficult video game genres out there. it's It has very dense bullet patterns that you need to squeeze through very precisely.
00:42:35
Speaker
And you typically don't have much health in those games. You die pretty quickly. They tend to be very relatively short arcade experiences. um So is this the point where I can be a total nerd and dive in and say, during college, I got to the point where I could finish Galaga 88 on a single quarter?
00:42:56
Speaker
Nice. Nice. It didn't hurt that I had a friend who worked at the arcade at the mall up in Denton. We all went UNT. And one, two times a week, I would just go hang up, hang out at the arcade while he was working. And they had Galaga 88. And I I kept playing it. i got to where I could consistently go in and do it on one quarter.
00:43:22
Speaker
Nice. Now I will say Galaga itself is it not a bullet hell game. ah But it does have like the foundations of the bullet hell genre. You're sitting near the bottom of the screen, you're shooting at things that are at the top, but bullet hell games, it's it's like I said, they're just much more intense than what Galaga is. There's a lot of bullets all at the same time. It's ah some it's often referred to as Denmaku, which is Japanese for curtain fire.
00:43:50
Speaker
Oof. So, ah yeah, it's it's pretty intense. But that said, Toho series, instead of being sci-fi, like a lot of bullet hell games are, it is fantasy. It's based on fantasy creatures.
00:44:04
Speaker
You're playing primarily as either a shrine maiden... or a witch. And your opponents are a variety of mythical creatures, ah primarily from Japanese folklore, so there's a lot of yokai and oni and stuff, but occasionally you'll also find creatures from other folklore as well, like Toho 6 in particular, one of the most popular games. The main antagonist of that game is a vampire.
00:44:30
Speaker
So a lot of different a lot of different inspirations. And in particular, while bullet hell games are known for their high difficulty in a general sense, Toho specifically is actually one of the easier bullet hell games in relation to the other ones because its bullet patterns...
00:44:50
Speaker
are often not designed with killing the player in mind first and foremost. They're usually focused more on being thematically appropriate and representative of the myths of whatever creature or character you're currently combating against.
00:45:08
Speaker
So they're designed for more aesthetics than difficulty. Although there are there is still absolutely a lot of difficulty in there. We're we're talking relative here.
00:45:20
Speaker
Right, right. Yes. But so so also notably, ah the all of the Toho characters, that they're they're all they're all women. Like technically there are a couple of guy characters, but but all the important characters, you know, it's it's ah if if you're familiar with a lot of like a lot of media these days is very focused on stylized anime girls.
00:45:43
Speaker
A lot of that was started by Toho. It it is the seed that brought about that sort of stuff. Gotcha. Because Kima Toho, like I said, started in the 90s.
00:45:55
Speaker
So it's it was it was a big inspiration for ah a substantial amount of Japanese media. It's ah it's a pretty big deal over there. But so that's basically what we've got. We've got a lot of characters. There's 20 Toho games these days, and each game introduces like eight new characters, each with their own, you know, backstory, inspirations, bullet patterns. They've got a lot of stuff going on.
00:46:22
Speaker
And a lot of people like these characters a whole lot. it's It's one of the main appeals of the series in the first place. And of course, the game, the series takes place in the magical world of Gensokyo, which is basically its own little pocket dimension where gods and monsters and stuff who who rely on human fear and faith in order to exist properly can continue to exist in ah in this pocket dimension. Whereas in the outside world, which is primarily reflective of the real world, people are losing faith in such mystical creatures.
00:47:00
Speaker
Gotcha. And so it's ah it's sort of like a wildlife reserve to some extent. And a lot of people, they really like the characters. They really like the world. The the series has a lot of fun dialogue. has a lot of fun stories. it's ah It tends to be rather lighthearted, front-facing, but looking into the lore, there are also darker elements that one can work with if one wants to.
00:47:23
Speaker
And so whenever it comes to the Toho tabletop game, they really had two different goals in mind. For one, they wanted to represent the characters because that's what a lot of people care about.
00:47:36
Speaker
And they also wanted to represent the gameplay. And so the the game takes place in two different phases. There's an exploration phase where you have a map of Gensokyo with a number of spaces on it.
00:47:53
Speaker
And the GM will set up some sort of mystery or event or goal that the characters are all tasked with either solving or dealing with in some way.
00:48:04
Speaker
And the characters will have to explore the map of Gensokyo and complete various tasks along the map in order to move things on. And a lot of those tasks involve interacting with characters and environments that the series has represented.
00:48:21
Speaker
And also notably, all of the player characters, as of right now, there is no English example of character creation. There are 30 preset characters in the in the game that you choose to play as. Because like I said, big focus of the the series for a lot of people is the characters. So a lot of them want to play as the characters and interact with other characters within this setting. Right.
00:48:47
Speaker
And so a lot of the tasks on the spaces will involve either explicitly or implicitly interacting with those characters to achieve some kind of goal.
00:48:59
Speaker
And that that is something that can't really be replicated effectively within other contexts. You know, it's like you've got...
00:49:10
Speaker
you've got Because each space has its own specific events, it's very specifically designed for the Toho universe in that way.
00:49:25
Speaker
And then we have the combat, which ah is not a combat system that I've seen in any other tabletop game, because it takes place on a two by three grid.
00:49:38
Speaker
You have your 1 space, 2 space, 3 space, and then below them you have your 4 space, 5 space, 6 space. And within this grid, you're going to have a certain amount of attack,
00:49:51
Speaker
And that the amount of attack, the player's maximum um amount of attack is five. And so at max attack, you will take five d6s and you will roll them.
00:50:03
Speaker
And whatever number if the dice is, you put a bullet on that space. So if you roll a one, you put a bullet on your opponent's one space. If you roll a two, you put it on their two space.
00:50:15
Speaker
And so in that regard, ah the numbers that you roll on your dice, ah getting a higher number is not explicitly better. It depends on where your opponent is positioned on the board. Right.
00:50:28
Speaker
Okay. And that's alongside that, so that that's your basic attack. You always do your basic attack, but you also have spell cards. And spell cards, they're your super moves.
00:50:40
Speaker
You know, it like I said, characters' bullet patterns in this series are often related to whatever mythology they're based on. ah And this is representative of that You use your spell cards, and they can have a wide variety of effects.
00:50:56
Speaker
They can put bullets on specific spaces. They can generate several bullets that you get to decide what spaces they go to. They can ah skip your opponents, they know they can lower your opponent's ability to dodge instead of instead of placing bullets on the board at all.
00:51:12
Speaker
They can absorb bullets, potentially, from your own space and send them back to the opponent. There are a wide variety of things here. And it's because they're reflecting how each spell card is designed to be reflective of the character that uses it in some way.
00:51:31
Speaker
And this combines well with the fact that each character also has a passive ability. Usually combining the character's spell cards with their passive ability creates an overall play style that is meant to be reflective of that specific character.
00:51:47
Speaker
And so between the combat elements and the board elements, I feel like the game really effectively ah gives off the essence of the Toho series. You know, it's like they they really represented what people love about the series so much and create opportunities for role play that people can enjoy. You know, the the game is very much designed for people who love the series already.
00:52:17
Speaker
in that regard. Sure. no Yeah, that that makes sense. Yes, i I have had people play the game that aren't familiar with the series, and they've still enjoyed it, but I've definitely seen a difference where people who are familiar with the series definitely get a lot more out of it.
00:52:32
Speaker
because they like to see their favorite characters. They like to play as their favorite characters. They like to They have the connection to it. Yes, yes. And that that's that's the that's the most important part in this instance, I feel like, because the game is really designed around those characters on a fundamental level.
00:52:51
Speaker
So that that raises a question for me, just in general, yeah regarding the topic that we're talking about. So... In all of the all of the other games that we play that are based on existing IPs, generally speaking, we're creating our own characters, right?
00:53:09
Speaker
Yes, this is true. There are some, like, and I'm looking past my my screen and camera here at one of my game shelves, and I'm seeing the Marvel Multiverse RPG.
00:53:25
Speaker
Yes. Yes, there are rules to create your own characters, but But Marvel Multiverse, granted, I haven't read through everything yet, and I haven't had a chance to get it on the table beyond playing a quick start once at Gamer Nation Con.
00:53:41
Speaker
if But it seems to be very heavily geared towards playing established Marvel characters.
00:53:52
Speaker
All right. Makes sense. So... which do you prefer to do if you're playing in an existing sandbox like that? Do you want to make your own character and play in that world? Or do you want to get the, the feeling of I'm Spider-Man or I am Captain Kirk or whatever, which, which do you think makes for a,
00:54:22
Speaker
better player experience playing an adapted game like that? You know, i think I think it's really more of a phase sort of thing where I think being introduced to the game for the first time, having an example of the pre-existing character helps a lot. And I mean, we've talked about this in general before where whenever where whenever we whenever we start up a new game, we usually use pre-gen characters.
00:54:51
Speaker
Usually those pre-gen characters aren't the characters of the original media, but it helps us the change. They're very similar with the serial numbers filed off. Archetypes, at least.
00:55:04
Speaker
Yes. And so I think having access to the original characters from the original medium can help introduce somebody to the system.
00:55:16
Speaker
I think that it's a very strong way to introduce somebody to the system as well, because they're familiar with this character. They know what they're supposed to be like. They know they know what they're supposed to be able to do.
00:55:28
Speaker
And so in turn... they can convert their pre-existing understanding of the character into an understanding of the mechanics as well. However, I have noticed that most of the players that play Toho Gensou Naratograph are very interested in making their own characters, which, as I've alluded to rules do exist now.
00:55:53
Speaker
They're just in Japanese because they they weren't they didn't exist upon the initial release of the game. They were added in in an update later that hasn't been fully translated yet. And so with that in mind, you know, the the players that play against the Naruto Graph, they are all very excited about getting to play as their favorite Toho characters. that That is a major appeal for it.
00:56:16
Speaker
But at the same time, several of them have expressed interest in creating their own character for this world. And indeed, ah you know, fan characters for Toho are extremely popular. People love to make those all the time.
00:56:30
Speaker
And so, you know, I think the optimal play here is just to have both just to to to have both, you know, accessible because there are going to be some people who they just want to play as Spider-Man. They just want to be Spider-Man that they don't necessarily want to make a new character. They just really like Spider-Man. They want to play as Spider-Man.
00:56:49
Speaker
But a lot of other people do want to make their own character. They want to create. their own place within this world. And, you know, having, having access to both scenarios, I think is definitely the strongest, especially if it is something that's loose, canonically, like,
00:57:09
Speaker
In Marvel, there are a lot of stories. There are so many different adventures. Spider-Man can go on many adventures that we've never seen him go on before. Whereas someone like Luke Skywalker um is a little bit more consistent, I feel like. you know that's it doesn't necessarily feel right to just send Luke Skywalker on any mission ever because Star Wars feels more contained, I guess you could say. I don't know if that's where the exact word that I was about to suggest. Okay, yeah.
00:57:44
Speaker
Well, because we we know the major beats of Luke's story. Which, yes, Star Wars has been around for 49 years at this point, but we know the major beats of Luke's story.
00:58:00
Speaker
we We know, we literally see his birth. Yes. We see his call to adventure. and We see his biggest downfall.
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah. We see his victory. We see him later in life and another big downfall. And we see his death. Yes. So we see all of the major beats of Luke's life already, whereas the structure of comics characters like Spider-Man, Superman, what have you,
00:58:37
Speaker
they're constructed to be evergreen. Yes. Or at least they were originally constructed to be evergreen. Well, they were, they, they were built for an audience that would read for a few years, age out and leave replaced by other readers, just like them lather, rinse, repeat.
00:58:56
Speaker
a And so their story never ends. If we see an end to their story, it's unusual.
00:59:07
Speaker
And it as often as not, it's not really the end because they come back. Yes. So, yeah, I see exactly which, and that may be the best answer that I've ever heard to that kind of question.
00:59:22
Speaker
And so, you know, applying this logic to Toho, the Toho series, it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily, the status quo doesn't typically change very much. Whenever the status quo of the Toho universe changes, it's almost always additive in nature.
00:59:38
Speaker
It's not changing the any pre-existing or pre-established characters. It's adding onto with more characters and more examples of what the universe is like.
00:59:49
Speaker
And so as long as the game that you're running, as long as the characters that you're introducing doesn't fundamentally change the nature of Gensokyo or of the characters, you can pretty much have them go on any adventure that you want. You can pretty much introduce any adventure, any character that you want.
01:00:10
Speaker
You know, it's because like I said, every game introduces like eight new characters. You can absolutely and all of the characters are based on myth mythological creatures or mythological entities or gods or the like. So as long as you have some mythological basis for your new Toho girl, you can throw her in there. doesn't even necessarily have to be Japanese culture or whatever.
01:00:32
Speaker
So in circling. ah Go ahead. Go ahead. yeah No, no. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say anything. Oh, I was going to say, circling back to the second part of that kickoff question, what makes an unsuccessful adaptation for you?
01:00:50
Speaker
i don't I don't know if I have necessarily seen an unsuccessful adaptation because, you know, it's it's like I said, a lot of the stuff that we see getting, that that a lot of the debt a lot of the games that we play are from media that I'm not familiar with.
01:01:06
Speaker
And that's fair the two instances of adaptations that I do run, I feel like they are pretty successful at doing that. Also, i didn't i didn't quite get to to I didn't quite get to talk about Mega Man.
01:01:20
Speaker
but Oh, then then circle back around. Go for it. so So the other game that I run is Net Battlers, based on Mega Man Battle Network.
Mega Man Battle Network RPG Mechanics
01:01:30
Speaker
And explaining the gameplay mechanics of Mega Man Battle Network is very complicated. It has a lot of things going on. it it has deck building elements where you have ah like a folder of 30 battleships. And over the course of the game, you defeat enemies to get new battleships with a variety of effects. You know, there's straightforward damage, there's support stuff, there's environmental manipulation.
01:01:56
Speaker
there's There's a lot of things that battleships can can potentially do. And they are your main source of damage. But then also, there's RPG elements. The main character you play as, Mega Man, he has HP stats and power stats and other stats that get increased over the course of the game.
01:02:16
Speaker
And then there's ah there's a board grid element where whenever you're in a battle, you're on a 6x3 grid, and you have your own 3x3 section of the grid, and the enemies have their own 3x3 section of the grid.
01:02:32
Speaker
And whenever the battle starts, you're in real time, and you're moving around the grid in real time, dodging opponents' you know attacks that are physically getting launched at you. And there's time limits for that. You have like 10 seconds of that real-time battle before opening up your side screen where you can load up the battle chips from your folder, and that's where the deck building comes in, because you only have like five battle chips available.
01:02:59
Speaker
at a time that you have to select through. And there, there's a lot going on in battle network and trying to implement all of that into a tabletop game would be completely overwhelming.
01:03:09
Speaker
So substantially. So, you know, suffice to say there's a there are is substantial changes in that regard. Yeah.
01:03:17
Speaker
I would say so. So basically, that so to go over a number of the changes, the stats in the game work a lot like the lot a lot like the games that we were talking about earlier with Alien and ah and Walking Dead.
01:03:35
Speaker
It's a very similar system where there are three core stats, your mind, body, and soul, and both of those stats have three substats. So the body stat has strength, speed, and stamina, and the mind stat has, like, sense, info, and coding, and the soul stat has, ah let's see, it was charm, bravery, and affinity.
01:04:02
Speaker
And they all have different effects. The synth stat is focused on projectile damage. Every character has an arm cannon of some sort, or at least you know something equivalent thereof.
01:04:14
Speaker
The body is kind of your tanking effect. Strength is obviously melee attacks. But then speed and stamina are both of your defensive stats. Anytime you get hit, you can roll speed to dodge or stamina to block.
01:04:27
Speaker
And then the soul stat is where things get really interesting. Like there's there's charm and bravery, which is your social stats, but then there's affinity.
01:04:38
Speaker
And the Mega Man series, characters are conventionally all named something man, or at least all of the, all of the nabby characters. So the main character is Mega Man, but there's also Guts Man, who's super strong.
01:04:53
Speaker
There's, ah there's Cut Man, who uses scissors to attack. There's Quick Man, who as his name implies, is extremely quick. And so the idea here is that you're going to create your own man or woman,
01:05:07
Speaker
And they're going to have an element of some type. And every Navi has an element. And you get to make up your own element. And you get to you know talk with your DM and say, what is this element going to do? What is it mechanic? How how is it going to function within the within the game? the the first The first character that I made was Teleport Woman.
01:05:29
Speaker
And her element was Portals. And that completely broke the game in half.
01:05:36
Speaker
And Affinity, Affinity is the stat that allows you to generate and manipulate your element. And so affinity-based characters are kind of, they they they get a lot more creativity with what they get to do because your strength stat and your synth stat, those attacking stats are fairly stable. They're consistent.
01:05:59
Speaker
If you have a strength-based character, it's going to play mostly like every other strength-based character. But if you have an affinity-based character, the nature of your character's element is going to radically change how the game plays for in a lot of instances.
01:06:18
Speaker
And this feels relevant because there there there are a lot of boss fights in the video games, and it feels like some of the boss fights are very basic. They're they're fighting the same game that you are, basically.
01:06:35
Speaker
But there's a lot of other boss fights that are extremely gimmicky. They're doing things that you fundamentally could not do whatsoever. And so it feels like those sorts of boss fights, those those are the affinity-focused boss fights. They're doing some weird stuff over there with their elements.
01:06:54
Speaker
So that's that's the stats, and that's how I feel like they relate to the games. But then the game this game does have battle chips. And notably, the the characters by default can only have five battlechips, but they always have access to those five battlechips.
01:07:13
Speaker
And you gain battlechips by defeating opponents, just like in the game. If you defeat the the fishy virus that attacks by launching himself into you, you get the dash attack chip, which allows you to dash into the opponent, just like the fishy virus does.
01:07:30
Speaker
And it works much the same way here. There's a wide variety of viruses. They have their own abilities. And typically those abilities are reflective of whatever battle chip they drop actually is.
01:07:42
Speaker
So you defeat opponents, you gain their powers, a very Mega Man thing to do. And right on there there is more customization in the game. But ultimately, the a big thing about gaining strength in the game is the goal system.
01:08:01
Speaker
So you don't gain experience points in this game. Instead, every player writes down three goals that they want their character to achieve. Sometimes these goals are things the characters themselves want.
01:08:14
Speaker
Other times these goals will be things that the players want as like a writer. They want this storyline to happen to the character. And the way that I can best describe this is essentially when writing down your goals as a player, you're basically making it an an episode pitch to the GM.
01:08:35
Speaker
Sure. oh look Like ah there's there's a lot of shows out there that will have an episode specifically focused on specific characters. You know, this is character A's episode. It's focused on their issues. This is character B's episode. It's focused on their issues.
01:08:50
Speaker
And this goal system, it very much incentivizes the GM to make episodes in that sort of vein where I see, i see this player has their goal. They want to rock out a concert.
01:09:05
Speaker
So I will make a scenario where they can rock out a concert, but uh-oh, the villain showed up during the concert. And now it's it's an adventure. And that it that is very in line with the Battle Network series because in the Battle Network series, you're playing as like a 10-year-old and he has a bunch of friends. And a lot of the time, it's just Lan. That's the main protagonist. It's Lan and his friends. They're just going off and doing something. They're just having some fun.
01:09:32
Speaker
And then the villains show up out of nowhere. And the goal system helps the GM recreate that feeling where, you know, the the the characters, they want to do this thing. The players, they want to have their characters do this thing.
01:09:48
Speaker
And so you have them do the thing and you turn it into an adventure in that way. And that is a great way to adapt the storytelling methodologies of the Battle Network series.
01:10:01
Speaker
But also, notably, whenever a character completes a goal, they increase one of their Operator's stats. Because technically, you're playing as two characters. You have the Operators, who are human characters,
01:10:13
Speaker
and you have all right the navvies. Because, I guess I didn't mention this, the Battle Network series exists in a universe where like everything is connected to the internet, but the internet has become so complex that humans can't actually use it anymore. They need things called net navvies in order to properly explore and use the internet.
01:10:33
Speaker
And the net navvies, they're the ones that have a wide variety of powers. They're the ones that use the battle chips, so on and so forth. they're They're the ones that you're really doing combat with. So whenever you complete a goal, that increases the operator's stats.
01:10:48
Speaker
And the operator's stats aren't irrelevant, but the operators aren't the ones fighting things, usually. If you want to increase the navi's abilities, that's usually done through either gaining new battleships, so defeating enemies gives you new battleships, so instead of gaining experience, you gain more equipment, essentially.
01:11:09
Speaker
and also the Navi Customizer. The Navi Customizer is a mechanic in the actual Battle Network games. You would be able to increase Mega Man's stats, and you would be able to give him new abilities on a fundamental level.
01:11:23
Speaker
So you would be able to ignore dangerous terrain on the battlefield, or you would be able to bring up a shield temporarily to parry incoming attacks. or you might be able to ah use a certain type of charge shot as, or like replace your charge shot with a specific battle chip, essentially.
01:11:45
Speaker
So instead of firing off a normal blast, you might fire off a bomb instead. It creates it creates a lot of potential for customization, and the Navi customizer in the tabletop game is very much the same.
01:12:00
Speaker
It creates that there are a wide variety of programs that the characters can install into their Navis. to further emphasize different play styles. Previously, i talked about how ah body and mind setups are very similar to each other.
01:12:16
Speaker
The Navi customizer is where things can become more variable again, even within that context. And so you're going to you are going to find these programs randomly.
01:12:27
Speaker
But, you know, there's also shops in the world. And so money becomes one of the most important facets to increasing the strength of the net navvies. And of course, you get money from defeating viruses a lot of the time.
01:12:41
Speaker
And so instead of experience, it's cash that allows you to upgrade your character in that way. And that that's very appropriate because the the Battle Network video game, despite being an RPG, did not have an experience system. You did not get experience points. You got battle chips and you got money.
01:13:01
Speaker
And in the tabletop game, whenever you defeat viruses, you get battle chips and you get money, just like in the video game.
01:13:10
Speaker
right on Yeah, so those are some of the ways that I feel like Net Battlers effectively replicates the feel of the video game. I think they did an excellent job with it.
RPG Adaptation Challenges
01:13:21
Speaker
ah And so now that I've talked about that, I guess I will reflect your question back to you about whatever, what what scenario do you, have you experienced where you felt like something did not adapt its source material very well?
01:13:36
Speaker
Well, aside from the generic paint D&D with an IP, yeah ah you Star Wars WOTC edition, Stargate SG-1, which is just a D20 system, probably what I've seen probably the probably the what i've seen is I have seen systems that attempt to replicate the special sauce of an IP, but also built into that special sauce is something that the publisher thinks might run counter to an effective cooperative RPG group play.
01:14:31
Speaker
and And so they try to nip that in the bud. o I see. And what I'm thinking of specifically is now I know that you are not terribly familiar with Star Trek media. You know, the broad strokes. Yes. I'm generally due to pop cultural osmosis. And having watched the series when I was very young.
01:14:52
Speaker
Yes. And then we've played the current Star Trek adventures. Yeah. And that was a great time. In the late nineties, ah a publisher that had the Star Trek RPG license, I believe it was Last Unicorn Games, you they had written into the rulebook for the game that since there is an inherent hierarchical structure to Starfleet, you have a command structure.
01:15:24
Speaker
Yes. To avoid potentially having... a player feel that they're in charge of the other players to avoid having the captain be a PC.
01:15:41
Speaker
Ah, yes, yes. And to have the captain be an NPC. We played one session. partly because of scheduling, but partly because it ended up being a few hours of us role-playing, pressing the buttons that the captain told us to press.
01:16:00
Speaker
i I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it was like the the GM would say, okay, tactical officer, raise shields. Okay, I'm going to raise shields.
01:16:11
Speaker
Tactical officer, target the enemy ship and fire. Okay, I'm going to target the enemy ship and fire. Mm-hmm. And granted, it was our first time playing this and and our only time, as it turned out, playing the system.
01:16:26
Speaker
But it felt like at the times that the mechanics of the game came into play, is that we had zero agency.
01:16:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think that that comes down to the fact that you you can't create a rule set where being a dick is against the rules.
01:16:52
Speaker
Not really. Like you you can you can try. But if somebody wants to be a menace to their fellow players, there's no rule set that's going to stop them from doing that. Yeah. And I appreciate what they were trying to do because they spelled out.
01:17:12
Speaker
in that part of the rule book, what they were trying to do. They spelled it out. yeah we're We're trying to prevent one player from hogging the spotlight yes and and taking charge of the group.
01:17:28
Speaker
But anyone watching Star Trek at that time from Next Generation to DS9 to Voyager, which had all been on at the time, those were all settings that were covered, a is...
01:17:43
Speaker
There's always a scene where the command crew gets together and says like, okay, well, how are we going to do this? And, and they collaborate. Yes. To come up with the solution. The captain may be responsible for getting everyone to implement the solution that they came up with, but you also have to give the players agency in how to do it.
01:18:08
Speaker
Yes. There is a command structure. Yeah. that you have to follow in Starfleet, but that's going to be very, very loose when you're in an RPG, as we saw when we walked through the quick start.
01:18:20
Speaker
Yes. Of Star Trek Adventures. Whenever we ran through the quick start, for for for those watching, I was actually the captain of that game. And I wanted to make sure that I was very mindful of that fact, where it's like, you know, I know that as as the character of the captain, I have a lot of control over what everyone else does. But as a player, I want to make sure that everybody is having a good time.
01:18:48
Speaker
And so I feel like the the if somebody is playing as the captain, they do kind of have to take the role of a co-GM within the mindset, at the very least, of recognizing yeah everybody else here wants to have fun.
01:19:03
Speaker
and I want to make sure that I'm not stepping on anybody's toes, anybody's real toes, of them having fun And you did such a good job with it that everyone pretty much decided that when we start the campaign with original characters, they have nominated you to be the captain again.
01:19:23
Speaker
Yep. It's like, okay, I'll i'll go for it. And so that will be coming up soon. Yes, in the imminent future. So that that was anim that was a note from from Star Trek. But it definitely does feel like the the issues there were less inherent to adapting necessarily. And it it was more just they were trying... It was how they chose to adapt. it Yeah, it it was it was fundamentally that they were trying to make being a jerk illegal by the rules, which is just yeah fundamentally not something you can really do.
01:20:02
Speaker
You know, ah is is there any other examples that you would like to bring up? um I am trying to think of some. And, you know, anyone who's watching the YouTube version sees that I am peering around the screen to look at some more of my books. um I think there's there's a partly there is also a fine line to walk going back to the last question that I asked, too.
01:20:31
Speaker
If you're adapting an existing IP and like I said, the the Marvel Multiverse RPG is very heavy on giving you stats to use as a player for established characters. And that same DC Heroes RPG that I was talking about way at the top.
01:20:54
Speaker
up was very, very heavy on using established characters. um DC Heroes came out mid to late 80s, early 90s.
01:21:07
Speaker
This is when the prevailing wisdom in the RPG industry was that the bulk of the product that they were pumping out was adventure modules. Yeah.
01:21:18
Speaker
You'd get a core rule book and then they would punch out, pump out modules. And so... If you played DC Heroes with the adventure modules as is, and then you had very little chance for character growth because this module over here is a new Teen Titans module.
01:21:41
Speaker
e This one is a an Outsiders module. Mm-hmm. This one is ah you know a Legion of Superheroes module.
01:21:53
Speaker
Yeah. And they weren't really connected. There were only a small handful that were specifically marked as being four your own heroes.
01:22:04
Speaker
I see. And the system itself was a great system. they They came up with a good way, especially in those early days of RPGs, of having a a relatively simple system that with that geometric progression accommodated characters all along the power scale spectrum.
01:22:29
Speaker
and And ah it was pretty simple. You you played with two D10s and art and you just had to cross-reference a couple of charts.
01:22:43
Speaker
a couple of tables on the GM screen to figure out a target number. And, you know, they, they came up with a fairly elegant system, even if it was, if you're out of practice, it's a little awkward. I learned this at Gamer Nation Con 8 because I ran a game of it.
01:23:00
Speaker
Oh my. And i was like, oh man, it's, it's been literally decades since I've played this. How do I do this again? But, Where it it succeeded in capturing the flavor and everything. Where I think it failed is not giving enough freedom to give to make your own character and have them advance using the materials that they published.
01:23:31
Speaker
two you You had to homebrew. Either that or you had to really, really, really hack those published modules because the new Teen Titans modules were designed with characters with the Titans power set.
01:23:50
Speaker
Ah, yes, of course. In mind. And, you know, the same with any of the other modules. They they were very well done. They had gorgeous artwork.
01:24:03
Speaker
But the part of it, too, like I say, is the nature of the RPG industry at the time. Yeah. you know you You pump out adventure modules.
01:24:16
Speaker
This is before the the shift to source books. And you know really, the only person that buys an adventure module is the GM. Yeah, yeah.
01:24:28
Speaker
Because the player what what value does an adventure module have for the player? Yeah, pretty much. Although I will say, adventure modules are still pretty important, I feel like, because if
Adventure Modules & D&D Limitations
01:24:41
Speaker
you release... Oh, they're fantastic idea minds. If you release a system without any adventure modules, that's a little bit like releasing a video game console without any video games.
01:24:54
Speaker
Because I have been running into that problem a little bit myself because Ginso Narrative Graph has very few pre-written adventures and Net Battlers has none as far as I can tell. So I've basically been having to make everything myself.
01:25:13
Speaker
Well, and i what I have found, this is me personally, but I'm also a writer at heart. Yeah. Is that I find adventure modules to be great idea minds, but I find both as a player and a GM, running one as written tends to be pretty railroad-y.
01:25:36
Speaker
yeah makes sense and the the more experience that i've had on the player side of the table it's like yeah i understand that there's going to be some degree of railroad in most games but i don't want to see the tracks yeah yeah and when i'm when i'm playing in a pre-written adventure module i can i this is me personally i feel like i can see the tracks yeah yeah it makes sense Yeah, i don't... cause ah i i want a chance to i want a chance to knock that train off the tracks.
01:26:13
Speaker
Oh boy, it's time for plot derailing. Not what we're talking about today. Although I imagine that probably is worth an episode at some point. It probably is. And I'm going to mark that down in the notes. You were about to say something. ah Yeah. You know, just talking about the fact that the games that I run don't really have any adventure modules. i I definitely like enjoying, I enjoy making the adventures that I do.
01:26:39
Speaker
But it would be nice to have more adventure modules, if for nothing else than just as an example of what the developers expect adventures to look like.
01:26:50
Speaker
Oh, sure. this This is really getting outside the context of the of the discussion, but just, you know... Oh, hey, I know exactly what you mean. So if you could see what 16, 17 year old me was doing when I was writing my own DC Heroes adventures, i I was sitting down at our cheapy computer in our cheapy, I say cheapy, it's just, you know, we're late eighty s yeah computers.
01:27:23
Speaker
Typing out... the adventures to print out using the exact same structure as those adventure books. Ooh, I see.
01:27:35
Speaker
And part of that, what what I was with 2020 hindsight, what I see that was doing is that was teaching me to railroad my players. Yeah.
01:27:49
Speaker
Whereas as I've gotten more experience under my belt, ah I now I walk in generally with, OK, here's a handful of beats that I want to hit this session.
01:28:04
Speaker
evening Now, let me try to steer the players in that direction. But for the most part.
01:28:13
Speaker
Beat A doesn't have to be, we're talking Star Wars, Beat does not have to be in Mos Eisley on Tatooine.
01:28:24
Speaker
Yes. Beat A can be anywhere. So let the players go somewhere, let them start to have fun, and wherever they end up, that's where Beat A happens.
01:28:36
Speaker
Unless there is something about Beat A that specifically requires a location. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know I think that that really comes down to every system is designed to tell some kind of story. They're they're all geared toward some kind of narrative, some kind of tone.
01:28:58
Speaker
And adventure modules help guide what kind of adventures this system is optimized for telling, what kind of adventures this system is optimized for working within.
01:29:12
Speaker
And I think going back to the actual topic of the episode, ah you know, making a system that is designed for a specific narrative is, you know, it's it's what adaptation is really supposed to do, i feel like.
01:29:31
Speaker
If you're playing the Star Trek tabletop game, You want a system that is geared for Star Trek stories, stats and abilities, and you know other mechanics that are directly related to what adventures in the Star Trek universe typically entail.
01:29:52
Speaker
And, you know, that's that's ultimately the most important part of adapting towards a tabletop game, I feel like. Right. Yeah, absolutely. you I couldn't have said it better myself. yo you You know, while you can, even in those existing media examples, in their original forms, you know yeah, you occasionally might have...
01:30:18
Speaker
a story that is a break in the norm for the tropes and conceits of that of that series, but it still works within the parameters of the series.
01:30:33
Speaker
Because it it's made by those same people. you you could You could do a Star Trek style story of exploring in Star Wars, but it would feel more like Star Trek than Star Wars. Yes.
01:30:53
Speaker
And, you know, yeah yeah, yeah. Oh, no, you keep going. oh No, go ahead. Go ahead. but You know, the back to the idea that I brought up previously, where a lot of people just mod D&D to, you know, do whatever other system they want to do D&D has a specific type of story that it's best at dealing with. It's best at dealing with medieval dungeon crawling.
01:31:18
Speaker
Not every series out there is medieval, and not every series involves dungeon crawling. no it's No. D&D is general enough that technically it's possible to, I don't know, make a Toho mod for it, I guess.
01:31:36
Speaker
But it's not as good at doing that as Ginso Narodograph is at being a Toho game. Exactly. You know, the the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars, it has its fans.
01:31:51
Speaker
And, know, bless them. I have some of the books for it myself. Partly, i walked into it with two sets of preconceived notions.
01:32:03
Speaker
I walked into it with preconceived notions of the West End version. And I walked into it with preconceived notions of Star Wars. Mm-hmm. And what I found was a playable game that wasn't as flexible for Star Wars as the West End system and felt like D&D with D&D crossed out and Star Wars written in.
01:32:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:32:43
Speaker
fighter crossed out and Jedi written in. Oh man, they they made the Jedi the fighter? i Well, I mean, there there were a couple of different kinds of Jedi. Oh yeah, that makes sense. And so one of them ah and you know another you know cross out wizard and write in Jedi.
01:33:01
Speaker
And so... I found it disappointing in that respect. Yeah, no. The same kind of thing can be said with Stargate SG-1.
01:33:12
Speaker
It's contemporary military science fiction. you Is D20 system really the best system to use for that?
01:33:23
Speaker
Probably not. Probably not, but I know exactly why they did it, because of the open game license. Yeah, yeah. the The open game license and the very fact that because it is D20, you have new people that come into it because D&D is the big name in the space. And all you have to do is look at the sales bumps when each new season of Stranger Things came out.
01:33:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. To know that D&D...
01:33:57
Speaker
has new players come in because of name recognition on its own and from Stranger Things. in And so, spoiler alert, kids, there's a game system. There are Stranger Things D&D sets, but the best system to use to play Stranger Things is the kids on bike system, not D&D.
01:34:21
Speaker
but I believe it. Because Kids on Bikes is built around the character types and situations from Stranger Things, whereas the Stranger Things D&D sets are, they're mostly just Stranger Things themed D&D. They put out a Stranger Things D&D starter set that is a standard D&D starter set, but what makes it Stranger Things is the books are written in-universe as if you are the Stranger Things characters learning to play D&D.
01:34:57
Speaker
Ah, see. And so it's it's got their notes and things in it. It's written in that style as opposed to the standard D&D manual style. Makes sense. And so, know, even D&D knows that it's not the best system for the IP that they slapped on the box. Yep.
01:35:18
Speaker
Yeah. There's other systems out there, everybody. You can play them. Yes, you can find them, play them. When you go into the game store, what the the other thing that gets D&D so much traffic is it's in non-game stores.
01:35:37
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. you can You can buy the starter set at Target. the You can buy some of the books at Target.
Game Availability & Support
01:35:46
Speaker
You can get the books at Barnes & Noble.
01:35:50
Speaker
You can find some other systems occasionally at Barnes & Noble, but not nearly in the quantity that you can find D&D. They've got the brand recognition. Well, I have good news for everybody.
01:36:02
Speaker
the The games that I talked about, the ones that I run, Ginson Aerograph and Net Battlers, They're both free. You can just find them online. You can look them up.
01:36:13
Speaker
You can get them online for no cost. You can play them right now. yeah Well, that wins and that that you know that blows anything else that I could say out of the water. Free. Free is good.
01:36:29
Speaker
Free and online for download. it's it's as It's as available as a tabletop game could possibly be. Are they available for download, even for free, on, like, drive-thru?
01:36:44
Speaker
i don't know. I just look them up. that I just look up Ginster Narrative Graph, and the translator has their stuff on their Tumblr. And I looked up NetBattlers, and they have, like, a website for it.
01:36:57
Speaker
Gotcha. ah just I was just wondering, because there's there's quite a few things that I've downloaded for free or dirt cheap off-and-drive through RPG. Makes sense. home But any final words on adapting?
01:37:14
Speaker
You know, i think I think we've pretty solidly covered everything that I wanted to talk about. I think we did. So here's here's the time of the show where I'm going to take a deep breath because I'm doing the work of three people here. Oh, boy.
01:37:29
Speaker
Here's where I say, check out our website at HowWeRollGaming.com and there you'll find information about our current campaigns, our podcast archive, and links to our merch store and all of our social media.
01:37:42
Speaker
You can also directly support the show through Patreon. Just go to Patreon.com slash HowWeRollGaming and you'll see our different membership tiers starting at just $2 a month with special recognition on our Discord server and higher tiers giving you on air credit and discounts on our merch store. And on that merch store, we just recently dropped our Nat one t-shirt. Have you seen the g Nat one t-shirt, Lauren?
01:38:09
Speaker
I don't think I have yet. It's got a great big die in the center of it that it's rolled a Nat one. And it says crying is a free action. Beautiful. Beautiful. And, um,
01:38:23
Speaker
You can also, you know in our show notes, we have, Speaking of DriveThruRPG, we have a DriveThruRPG affiliate link. Buy something through DriveThruRPG, use our affiliate link, and we get a couple of pennies to help keep but keep the show up and running.
01:38:41
Speaker
And finally, if you have any questions you'd like to like us to answer, topics you'd like us to cover, or even submit your own RPG Glory Story, we need to do another RPG Glory Stories episode soon. Oh, yeah. I think some of my players have some of those.
01:38:57
Speaker
shoot us an email at podcast at how we roll gaming.com. Beautiful. And that is all of our closing notes. I want to thank everyone for listening. Lauren, I want to thank you for sitting in for Robert and Nick.
01:39:13
Speaker
Yes. Yes. im I'm doing the work of two people. Yes. And, oh oh you know, I think, you know, it occurs to me, Nick may have died because remember there was that giant squirrel.
01:39:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah, there was the giant. There were two squirrels of actively fighting each other outside of his house. Yes. Well, did you hear him saying the other day that they found the body of the one that we heard fall? Oh, no.
01:39:40
Speaker
Yes, so we we know that the one is is homicidal. So hope hopefully though, Nick will return. In Avengers Doomsday.
01:39:53
Speaker
Beautiful. I mean, you're here. i have to carry the gag over from casual nerdity. Of course, of ah But in the meantime, thank you again for joining us on How We Roll Gaming. Thank you, Lauren, for joining me yeah that I wasn't sitting here talking to myself for an hour and a half. Oh, know that's good. They would have called the people with the white coats and I could have been giving myself a hug.
01:40:17
Speaker
Oh, no. But... Until next time, I am Daryl. and I'm Lauren. And this is How We Roll. This episode of the How We Roll Gaming podcast is copyright 2026, How We Roll Gaming, LLC.
01:40:35
Speaker
All games and associated intellectual properties are copyrighted by their respective owners, and How We Roll Gaming makes no claim of ownership by discussing them here.