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12 – Student Research Spotlight: From NBS to Impostor Syndrome to Margaritas — Real Talk with Amy and Constance
5 Plays11 months ago
What do a soon-to-be PhD, a recent master’s grad, and two coastal professionals have in common? A love for all things coastal engineering—and a healthy dose of imposter syndrome.
In this month’s Going Coastal, Jon and Marissa have a fun discussion about student research with Amy Bredes (Stevens Institute of Technology) and Constance Hickman (University of South Alabama), diving into nature-based solutions, modeling shoreline protection and the very real post-grad job hunt.
Whether you're curious about XBeach modeling, interdisciplinary challenges in NBS, or the truth about Jon’s hair, or even how a dirty martini fits into a coastal engineering career—this one's for you!
Tune in for inspiration, laughs, and real talk from the future of coastal science.
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome back to the Going Coastal podcast, the podcast of students and new professionals in the coastal field, hosted by John Miller, Marissa Torres, and Deb Fernandez. I'm one of your co-hosts, John Miller. And I'm another one of your co-hosts, Marissa Torres.
00:00:24
Speaker
We're super excited this month. Every month that we have a student research spotlight, we get extra excited because we get to talk to students and future new professionals in coastal.
Meet Constance and Amy
00:00:35
Speaker
um This week, or this month, I should say, we have Constance Hickman, a master student in civil engineering with a focus in coastal at the University of South Alabama, and one of Deb's, I guess, colleagues there, um working in Dr. Stephanie Patch's laboratory at USA.
00:00:55
Speaker
We also have Amy Bredas, soon to be a doctor of philosophy, sounds very prestigious, ah in coastal engineering from Stevens, who I am fortunate enough to work with. So welcome, Constance and Amy, and we look forward to talking to you. Thanks for having us. It's really nice to be here.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me. Great to have you. Amy, I know that you're having a podcast with your advisor right now and also me who has worked with you previously, but we're just going to pretend that for everybody else out there, we have no idea what your research is about.
00:01:30
Speaker
Really, this is a conversation between you and Constance. You're going to tell Constance what you do. Yeah. So why don't we, before we get into talking about research, which we'll have plenty of time to do, let's get to know our guests a little bit first. So um Amy, why don't you start off?
Amy's Journey
00:01:46
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about your background, kind of how you got into coastal, why you're pursuing a PhD, those sorts of things.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So I got my bachelor's and master's at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in environmental engineering. And originally I was really, really interested in um emerging contaminant research. So things like PFAS, um also known as Forever Chemicals, 1,4-Dioxane, things like that. um And I took a job kind of on impulse to work for CDM Smith, which is a consultancy, once I finished my master's. um
00:02:30
Speaker
out in Seattle. I had never been there before. um i didn't even know Rainier was there, which for those who don't know is a very big mountain. um I was very surprised by its existence.
00:02:44
Speaker
um But when I was working at the lab, ah at that consulting firm, I kept on kind of getting um blocked from publication and blocked from being able to advance because I didn't have a PhD.
00:02:59
Speaker
At the same time, the other portion of my work ended up being coastal remediation. So I was working on CERCLA and Superfund sediment remediation projects.
00:03:12
Speaker
And I just fell in love with working in um ah coastal space. And I loved the complexity that comes with working um offshore as opposed to working on land.
00:03:27
Speaker
After that, I took role at another consulting firm that focused specifically on sediment management and marine science. um So there I got to experience doing some offshore research cruises where we were um actually doing some monitoring for the EPA at deep ocean dumping sites.
00:03:49
Speaker
I also did a lot of ah litigation work and chemical forensic work. But again, i just felt like I wasn't quite satisfied. And partially, I wanted to do more technical work. So that's in a very obvious reason ah to go for a PhD.
00:04:06
Speaker
But also, um I was actually talking to a friend about this recently. i think in some way, it's something that I also needed to do for myself um to be able to pursue like a research topic that I'm figuring out and proving to myself that I could do it and I could figure out something somebody else hadn't figured out before.
Non-linear Paths in Coastal Engineering
00:04:28
Speaker
so it's's It's nice and it's interesting. you know One of the things that i i think is interesting about your path is that it's not a it wasn't a direct, necessary, linear path from, okay, bachelor's, master's, PhD.
00:04:42
Speaker
and There's a lot of people that do it that way and there advantages in terms of finishing sooner and getting out there um that you know it might be apparent with that straight path.
00:04:54
Speaker
But you know, having had the opportunity to go work in consultancy for a little bit, I think, you know, you're actually one of a series of students that we've had where you've gone into consulting first and then come back.
00:05:08
Speaker
And it's interesting because my perspective has completely changed. I used to take a lot of students that came directly from a bachelor's or master's into the PhD program. And then having had the experience with Laura,
00:05:19
Speaker
and with Amy and with Ian, another one of my PhD students, the I've kind of noticed that the the benefit that experience in consulting gives you in terms of your perspective, like how ready you are to attack a PhD, how efficient you are when you're completing your PhD, I've noticed those benefits. So,
00:05:38
Speaker
You know, it it it doesn't have to be a direct path. Right. It can be this, you know, go out, explore, find what you really you know want to do and then come back and you're more ready for it. So I think that's a really important thing to emphasize to are our audience who might be out there thinking, OK, did I miss my chance? Like the answer is no, you didn't miss your chance. There's always opportunity to come back and go back and do it.
00:06:00
Speaker
So.
Constance's Journey
00:06:01
Speaker
Constance, how about yourself? What's your path look like? Hi, guys. My name is Constance. I got my bachelor's in civil engineering at South. I graduated in May of 2023, I think. Yeah. um I took a little bit of a less traditional path with undergrad. I went to undergrad for five years and some extenuating circumstances in my life, I dropped out.
00:06:26
Speaker
um And a one semester break turned into a three-year break because of COVID. And so I jumped back into junior level engineering classes and back in 2021. Yeah.
00:06:39
Speaker
And interestingly enough, um whenever I first went back to school, I wasn't exactly sure what subdiscipline of civil engineering I wanted to go into, but I did know for sure that I didn't want to do coastal actually.
00:06:54
Speaker
And then I took a fluid mechanics class my junior year. with Dr. Stephanie Patch, who was also my advisor. And I think I just kind of fell in love with um the mechanics of fluids in the ocean and how they kind of interact with the world around them. And Dr. Patch just being such a wonderful teacher.
00:07:15
Speaker
And she's also a coastal engineer. So her just her influence kind of led me to want to pursue coastal engineering. I also grew up um in Mobile. So I grew up around the coast.
00:07:28
Speaker
And and I just thought that that would be a really interesting path for me to go into. I did undergraduate ah research with her, with Dr. Patch. And when I did finish undergrad, I wasn't exactly ready to be a real-life adult yet. And she offered me a position in her master's program. and so I took it. And here I am.
00:07:53
Speaker
Why did you think that you didn't want to do Coastal at first?
Misconceptions in Coastal Engineering
00:07:57
Speaker
I just don't think that I really understood what... coastal engineers did. i really, i don't have a good answer to that one. I just, for some reason, knew that I didn't want to do that one. I guess I just didn't know enough about it.
00:08:08
Speaker
And then, you know, learned a little bit more about it and kind of went that direction. I think it was the most, it's the most abstract to me, at least of all of the sub-disciplines of civil engineering.
00:08:19
Speaker
To me, it seemed like the most abstract and kind of like but It wasn't very tangible to me at the time until I really got some more, you know, background experience and things like fluid mechanics. And then like saw what Dr. Patch did and did research with her that I really understood kind of what goes into something like that. So.
00:08:37
Speaker
So it's it's interesting to hear you say that because it hits on a ah common theme that, you know, runs throughout our now three plus years doing Going Coastal is the. Lack of awareness of the coastal profession, whether it's engineering, policy, planning.
00:08:51
Speaker
you know we see so We hear so many stories about people that get into it and love it, but then like nobody really even knew it existed. And it's kind of crazy. um you know i was thinking about it actually earlier because I was talking to somebody who's an environmental engineer.
00:09:06
Speaker
And, well, Amy is obviously an environmental engineer as well. But, you know, this particular environmental engineer actually got into environmental engineering thinking it was coastal engineering and then realized it was more sort of water quality and soil remediation and kind of those types of things.
00:09:21
Speaker
And that wasn't what they were expecting. So they ultimately ended up in coastal engineering. because of and not false advertisement because it's not like environmental falsely advertises it but there's just a ah perception I think sometimes that environmental engineers do what coastal engineers do and nobody knows nobody knows what coast nobody knows coastal engineering exists so your story is very you know very common in in the in the guests that we have you know we hear a lot of people with that same impression Yeah, whenever I tell people that I'm studying to be a coastal engineer, they're like, what do coastal engineers do? I'm like, well, they work with the coast. It's kind of, it seems kind of self-explanatory, but it's not. People don't really understand, like you said. I get a lot of people that don't understand. You know, I'm in New York City, so I'll go to a bar. And in New York, everybody always asks, the first question gets to know you is always, what do you do for work?
00:10:15
Speaker
And I tell them I'm a coastal engineer, and half the time they go, oh, so you study whales?
00:10:22
Speaker
We're all marine biologists, right? Dolphins and whales. Not even close. I feel like i I get some of that with ocean engineering. People don't really know ocean engineering is either, and I've always had to explain it. They're like, oh, so oceanography? And I'm like, no, that's...
00:10:37
Speaker
more science ocean stuff versus ocean engineering is all the fields, all types of engineering disciplines, electrical, chemical, mechanical, civil, and then try to apply those concepts to the ocean and to that kind of environment. And it's very challenging.
00:10:57
Speaker
I think that speaks volumes to ah Dr. Patch that she was able to inspire you, Constance, to come into Coastal from just taking a fluid mechanics class. Yeah. That sounds pretty awesome.
00:11:09
Speaker
She must be an amazing teacher and human. She's a phenomenal teacher. Yeah. She's fantastic. She's impacted my life in ways that she probably will never know. But, you know, she's awesome.
00:11:23
Speaker
That's pretty sweet. I wish my fluid mechanics teacher was that cool. When I initially took fluid mechanics back before i i dropped out, I took it with her. And at the time, again, there's extenuating circumstances. So I didn't i didn't love the class.
00:11:39
Speaker
And she actually taught it differently the second time I took it. And it was awesome. I think I was also a little bit different the second time I took it. So, you know, that also changed things. But the way she taught it was fantastic.
00:11:52
Speaker
That must have been a difficult time. And we certainly don't have to get into it. ah But it's just encouraging to see you finish. What was that feeling like when you finished your undergrad?
00:12:05
Speaker
It's one of my favorite days that I've ever had in my entire life. I'll be 29 in November. Definitely favorite day to date for sure. And then I guess second favorite day will be masters.
00:12:16
Speaker
And how soon are you to graduating? In May. In May? Awesome. I defended my thesis. Two weeks ago and passed. Hey, congrats. It was an interesting experience for sure. Certainly unique. Amy, when is your dissertation
Research Highlights
00:12:32
Speaker
defense? When's that coming up?
00:12:33
Speaker
May 2nd. Oh boy. So soon. How are you feeling? Um, like I both have too much time and not enough time and too many things to do and...
00:12:48
Speaker
You know, i somehow want to do them. I don't want to do them. I think it's very normal, though. Yeah. Did you also have to do um a defense for your master's as well? Yeah. So I defended my master's, but in something very, very different. I was studying different... um sorbents, which is um basically in chemical in like chemical engineering or environmental engineering, right? It's a particle they use to try to absorb ah different different types of chemicals.
00:13:19
Speaker
So I was studying novel sorbents and seeing if they could remediate um some emerging contaminants from ah water And looking at different methods. So the idea was we were trying to do really novel sorbents that anyone could make out of waste products. um In environmental engineering, there's definitely a really big push to make remediation accessible to different communities around the world. You know, like we're very fortunate to live in a very wealthy country. you know, Europeans are are also very fortunate in the same way.
00:14:01
Speaker
Um, you know, but people who live in you know, rural parts of Kazakhstan are not as fortunate and may only have access to the things in their communities. So finding novel ah methods out of kind of normal waste products, um, to create something that can remediate a chemical, especially from drinking water is, is very important.
00:14:27
Speaker
So, yeah. And I was like, know, I was looking at the, um behavior of different elements corresponding to different, um you know, to different sorbents and all these sorts of things. It's so far from what I think about now.
00:14:45
Speaker
um But it's not completely irrelevant. That sounds very in-depth. Sounds very interesting. So needless to say that the litigation and chemical forensic skills that you picked up at your consulting experience doesn't hasn't really applied to much of what you've been doing for your PhD or in some ways has it contributed?
00:15:08
Speaker
I think the specific chemical forensic and um especially remedial chemistry work has not. But what I'll say is that some of the types of statistical analysis that you use in chemistry and fate and transport, also I had already been exposed to um a lot of fluid dynamic modeling, because we use that to model the fate and transport of of different chemicals at a coastal site.
00:15:41
Speaker
um So there is an overlap in some of those topics. And then where it's really helped um is in the natural and nature-based solution work that I do. i can speak the same language as the ecologist pretty often, because in order to learn how to do all the remedial work that I did, I'd I have a lot of background in aqueous geochemistry and, you know, I have a lot of background in nutrient cycling because all of that's also very important.
00:16:10
Speaker
So there has been some overlap. I think I'm kind of unique in that um my PhD has broadened my knowledge base and not only narrowed it, which I think is very unusual. and It's kind of unusual.
00:16:28
Speaker
Let's get into it. From the top, tell me about the specifics of your research, Amy, in, give me the TLDR of your dissertation. this is this this This is great because they're always getting on me about how I can go on forever and just talk forever. So now the pressure's on Amy. This is great.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah. so the super short abridged version, this is my bar version, I guess, um after I tell them, no, I don't study whales.
00:16:55
Speaker
ah So i do work in natural and nature-based solutions. um And I personally view my work in kind of two categories. Some of it focuses on the wave physics and wave mechanics of ah waves as they pass over different engineered structures that allow us to better make natural and nature-based solutions, which is just any engineer plus natural system that we're trying to use as infrastructure.
00:17:26
Speaker
um And the other half, I think, is really targeted towards practice and guidance. So some of the papers that I've published have really been focused on ah condensing information so that way practitioners can use them in trying to draw new conclusions.
00:17:45
Speaker
from studies that exist. And even the final work that I'm doing now is also really focused on, are we measuring this right? Should we be be designing it differently? So a lot more of an applied approach as opposed to a purely theoretical approach.
00:18:00
Speaker
Yeah, she doesn't do that crazy wave modeling stuff that some people do. Hey, I got her to try it. I think one of the great things about Amy's work and kind of fits her personality in that she very much can talk the talk when it comes to speaking about what we do well and what we don't do maybe the best, right? And where are the opportunities to improve the way that we design nature-based solutions?
00:18:24
Speaker
So really, i think the the the outreach type work that she does is sort of a natural extension of her personality. So it it fits really well and I'm glad that her work is kind of leading in that direction because Amy's work is going to change the MBS world, right? Right, Amy, when you graduate?
00:18:43
Speaker
We'll see. We'll see if our tech transfer session gets accepted, and then maybe it maybe it will. What tech transfer session for what?
00:18:54
Speaker
ah We're working on putting together a tech transfer for the Restore America's Estuaries Conference um in Connecticut. That's coming up. We're trying to focus on my work, but also some of the other ways that we view the field should move and where other researchers are kind of pushing the work um to highlight the difference between current practices and the state of the art.
00:19:25
Speaker
I think that's a really important part of what, you know, Amy's doing is that, and I think that sometimes you know sometimes PhDs get so into their the scientific aspects of their research that the sort of ah broader impacts of the work kind of get lost. And so I think opportunities like obviously presenting at conferences, um but presenting at different types of conferences, right? There's the AGUs, the very science-y conferences. There's the ICCEs, the very engineering conferences. There are Asteroamerica's estuaries that mix
00:20:01
Speaker
like ecologists and engineers. And then there's these type of tech transfer workshops, which are more focused towards like practitioners. And to the extent that you have work that is relevant, sharing it amongst those different communities just, you know, let lets it land in the broadest, you know, audience possible.
00:20:20
Speaker
It just increases the likelihood of the uptake of the research, which, you know Oftentimes there's that lag between you do great research, but nobody may use it for like 10 years or 20 years. It's like a great painter, right? That might not be appreciated until after they're gone, right? You're a great researcher. You don't want to wait that long, right? So we want to try to get the the information in the hands of the people that can use it you know now. So Constance, how about yourself?
00:20:44
Speaker
So mine is a bit more on the technical side. um After people ask me what coastal engineers do, they ask me usually what my thesis is
Nature-based Solutions
00:20:50
Speaker
about. And I usually just give them the... ah technical title, which is an evaluation of nature-based restoration and protection solutions along a critically eroded shoreline along the Intracoastal Waterway.
00:21:03
Speaker
And their eyes glaze over halfway through that. um But i my study site was Orange Beach Waterfront Park in Orange Beach, Alabama. It's shoreline features a regional park facility and it shares um its shoreline with the city's um public library, senior activity center, and then wind and water learning center, which is like a sailing camp for kids and field trip opportunities and stuff like that. but But presently it's got this little pocket beach area that they launch kayaks from and it's presently a
00:21:36
Speaker
super vulnerable from impacts from hurricane and sea level rise related damage. So my ah research was using the numerical model X Beach to evaluate different nature-based restoration and protection solutions on this pocket beach area um that were provided by an engineering firm called Moffitt Nickel.
00:22:00
Speaker
So they provided me with um statistical return period storm data. And I use that statistical return period storm data to build out hydro inputs for my model simulations. And then they also provided me with ah the designs for the park shoreline, which I then used the hydros from their just statistical return period storm data to run on those designs and kind of see how they worked.
00:22:27
Speaker
Interesting. Very uncommon for a private entity to be like funding research like that yeah at a university.
00:22:37
Speaker
That's interesting. it was really It was really cool to get to work with, you know, actual engineering professionals and kind of see how a project like that goes through all the different phases of, you know, a bidding and implementation and all that kind of stuff. So I enjoyed that aspect of it.
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah, that must have been that must have been cool to to work with them. I'm just curious, what is the expectation? like do you are they Is there any expectation? Are strings attached?
00:23:05
Speaker
Like on my end? Yeah. um not I mean, not really. all of the All of the research that I did and all of the results that I gathered from all the different simulations that I ran were given to Moffat and Nichols. So basically all the data that I got from this project is at their disposal.
00:23:21
Speaker
So yeah, but no, not really any strings attached or anything like that. It was more of just kind of like, I'm i'm sure that they did their own modeling on their side of things. I think it was more of a benefit ah to benefit me and, you know, the student aspect and the collaborative aspect of it.
00:23:38
Speaker
I think you know one of the things that, you know not to like, definitely don't undersell it, right? Because I think you know all all companies, you know even really good ones like Moffat and Nichols, a you know very extremely well-respected company, right? But they have their process their design process and their models.
00:23:56
Speaker
And sometimes just providing the information and allowing... a student that, you know, doesn't have the same, like institutional biases, I'll call it, right, look at something in a slightly different way, you might come up with something, whether it's a way in which you look at the data, the way in which you present the data, that ultimately they may find really useful. And, you know, it's just one of those things when you're in your day to day, like this is, this is how Moffitt and Nicola does it, they might, you might miss something, right? And I think that's, you know, we do that, you know, even, even as our group within Stevens, you know, we we look at data a certain way and I'm always encouraging our students to you know kind of think outside the box and try to present things differently and, you know, see where we can improve. So I think even though it definitely benefited you working on this project, I think I'm sure there's a benefit to them as well um just to kind of see what you did with the information that they that they gave you. So I think it's really cool that they
00:24:50
Speaker
took the time to do that because at the end of the day, it does cost them some time to work with you to provide the information. So it's great that they were willing to to do that. i think it's a great experience for particularly master students, right, to have the opportunity to work with a company like Moffitt and Nickel.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I definitely learned a lot ah throughout the entire
Job Market Challenges
00:25:09
Speaker
process. So it was it was really interesting. So I'm just curious, is did you work with anybody in particular at Moffitt and Nickel? Kate Dawson was the main liaison between like myself and Moffitt and Nichol.
00:25:21
Speaker
it was I was just curious. it's ah it's um um I'm always interested because our field is so small just to kind of you know figure try to see who people are working with um because I do know a lot of people in the field. Actually, you your advisor, believe not, this is how I'm going to date myself.
00:25:39
Speaker
right I'm so old that I remember. Oh, I heard that very differently, John. a So I remember actually reviewing, i think it was ah an application for, I want to like a graduate student fellowship that your advisor, Stephanie, wasn't patched at the time, but I know she was working down at Virginia Tech and, you know, wrote a or co-wrote or a really great proposal. i think it was to Virginia Sea Grant, it might have been, um,
00:26:11
Speaker
But I remember reading it and being super impressed. And I don't know if at the time it was ex-beach modeling, but I know a lot of her work has subsequently been ex-beach modeling. So like that's what I mean when I say it's a small field. like it's really when The older you get, the smaller it gets.
00:26:29
Speaker
Also heard that very differently, John. Sorry. Yeah.
00:26:35
Speaker
You're killing me today. You're you're setting it up. Sorry, Constance. Go ahead. It's okay. I also worked with, um, Tabassum. I don't know if you guys know Tabassum Islam. She is friends with Deb.
00:26:48
Speaker
I don't know if you guys also know her, but she also graduated from South and she now works at Moffat and Nickel. that's always nice too. when When there's a bit of a pipeline there, that's always, that's, that's always nice.
00:26:58
Speaker
Um, you know, those relationships are really important. Um, for faculty, right? So that you you have this ability to introduce and interact, get your students into the right places.
00:27:12
Speaker
That's kind of something that Amy and I are working on right now, figuring out where her next steps are going to be. Yeah, i that's stressful. You know, i mean, not to not to get too into you know politics, obviously the options for PhD coastal have changed.
00:27:37
Speaker
We'll say that a lot of government opportunities are not available. And a of the funding schemes not available. the funding schemes are different even for private companies. um you know i've i've been I'm very fortunate. This is another thing that I think has been a huge benefit actually about going into industry before going back for my PhD.
00:28:06
Speaker
um Aside from just the fact that I wouldn't have found Coastal without having gone into industry first, um The connections that I was able to make in industry have helped me along the way. I was able to work um while doing my PhD almost the entire time. And New York City is an extremely expensive place to live.
00:28:26
Speaker
So having those connections to make a good salary and have something flexible as opposed to, you know, working, i don't know, at Starbucks or something um just to make some extra money amazing.
00:28:41
Speaker
a really amazing opportunity that at least for my first two years before i started working ah with the core i wouldn't have had that without having gone into industry the other positive side is in my job search now i've reached out a lot to my old network and john's been helping me um one of my a couple of my friends that i made in industry have been helping me because i know a number of people in sediment management. And even though I don't think I really want to go back to sediment management, there's now becoming a really big overlap between sediment management folks and nature-based solutions folks.
00:29:21
Speaker
um So there's starting... to be a little bit more of a field there. And um those connections are awesome. One of my friends who works at Parsons, which I think is a defense company, but they have a very large environmental group.
00:29:39
Speaker
He put me in contact with someone at Anchor, which is known as a sediment um management company, but they're starting to expand their nature-based solution ah portfolio.
00:29:54
Speaker
um And I've heard that from a lot of other people that I've spoken with. um So, you know, I've gotten a lot of interviews. We'll see if they actually have projects and money um hire me. Yeah.
00:30:11
Speaker
That's another story right now. But i mean you bring up a good point about contacts and making contacts, maintaining contacts. um And sort certainly one of the ways that you do that is is through through conferences. So um Constance, if you if you had a chance to attend any coastal conferences and kind of what are your kind of impressions of the of the ones you've been
Networking and Conferences
00:30:32
Speaker
to?
00:30:32
Speaker
I went to ASBPA the last two years. So the first one I think that I went to was in Rhode Island. And then I presented at the one in Galveston um last August.
00:30:45
Speaker
um I really enjoyed them. ah I'm not a super big people person. So it is kind of hard for me to go out and interact with people just, you know, I wouldn't say it's hard, but it can be a little bit stressful, but everybody's super relaxed there and just, you know, very kind and welcoming. um So I really enjoyed ASBPA and meeting, you know, a lot of people in the private sector and just kind of seeing what's out there. i thought it was a really great opportunity.
00:31:15
Speaker
i mean, it's definitely great that you were able to get out there you and yeah There are certainly all different types of people and personalities. you know Some of us are more introverted, some of us more extroverted. um you know i know myself, the first conference that I think I attended was also in ASBPA.
00:31:32
Speaker
um And i think I attended in Portland, Oregon was the first one that um that I attended many, many years ago. You can look that up and figure out how old I am again.
00:31:43
Speaker
um But remember I my grad at University of Florida. I'm from New Jersey, did my grad at University of Florida. And i went all the way out to Oregon for my first conference. And my advisor didn't come with me, so...
00:31:58
Speaker
he stayed back in Florida. And so i'm I'm out there kind of all by myself. And I remember being so nervous and like, just so frightened. I was presenting my research for the first time. I was all the way on the West coast, you know, my advisor was nowhere to be found. So if I got the tough questions and, and I did get tough questions from Bob Guza and and Nick Krause some other really what, what I thought at the time were scary individuals.
00:32:24
Speaker
Um, And I'll never forget kind of the day before kind of sitting in the hotel bar, just having dinner by myself and kind of not knowing anybody. And, you know, it was a very like intense experience. And like, you know, um i was able to get through that first experience. And like you said, the people, ASBPA is a great conference.
00:32:45
Speaker
I call it a starter conference for people to go to because Generally, the people that you meet there are so friendly, um are so welcoming. um you know They're not out there to get you. So it's a nice way to kind of break into that conference um ah scene.
00:33:00
Speaker
And then you know as you as you kind of get used to it, there tougher, more intense places to go, like the AGUs and the ICCEs and maybe places you might get a little bit more difficult questions. But at the end, I think...
00:33:13
Speaker
you know, that that understanding that everybody's there just to kind of learn and, you know, benefit from each other's presence. Like, that's kind of... it Coastal tends to be, to me, a very welcoming just environment and field.
00:33:25
Speaker
um Not that it's easy, but it's important to kind of put yourself out there to an extent and kind of... Each one you do, it's kind of like it just gets more it gets easier and easier, right? The first time... It's like anything else. if The first time you do it, it's difficult, and then you start to kind of get used to it, and you you figure out your...
00:33:42
Speaker
um your approach almost when you when you go to these events, right? So it's it's like, you know, challenge yourself to ask one question the first time you go. And then next time you go, you ask two questions, meet one new person, meet two new people, right? And then before you know it, you have a small network and then just like, then you can kind of work within that network and kind of use it to meet new people. So um yeah, being be be being nervous the first time you're at a conference is definitely,
00:34:10
Speaker
A very typical female. I think Amy's kind of like atypical because Amy will show up to a conference and Amy will disappear. i won't see her for like four days, but then she'll come back and she'll have met 16 new people and we'll be co-authoring a paper with with people. so What?
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah, i I did have um actually Laura um in our lab. i was at a conference in New Orleans with her and she is also very social.
00:34:40
Speaker
And because she bought a six pack of beer for some guys on the field trip, um on you know at the beginning of the conference they were like oh our consulting firm is having a secret speakeasy so laura got us in and they had unlimited free french 75s which are very deceptively alcoholic delicious gin prosecco lemon excellent yeah amazing
00:35:10
Speaker
Very dangerous. Anyway, me ah with too many French 75s leads to convincing another PhD student to write a paper with me, which I think is the academic version of Let's Start a Podcast.
00:35:28
Speaker
I think you're right.
00:35:33
Speaker
And that relationship led to when ah John and I were in Rome for and um Sid Narion, who's also a co-author on that paper that we end up publishing, um happens to be there.
00:35:51
Speaker
ah So it, yeah, it does work out. I think I'm uniquely social at these things. I'm usually like, I don't want to hang out. I see you guys all the time. You know, i don't need to hang out with you guys at at a conference. I want to meet some other people. I want to get a new perspective, you know?
00:36:09
Speaker
um and luckily i have a very big social battery. yeah. That's definitely an advantage. You are blessed with the extrovert gene. Meanwhile, Constance and I are just going to chill at this bar and maybe just talk to each other for a little bit. And that is as much as much social interaction as we can handle for the evening and then recharge.
00:36:33
Speaker
i'm I'm very jealous of that. It's funny because I actually bartend on the side and I have for failure years and years now, like, yeah, all through undergrad, all through, ah through grad school. And so I say that I'm not a people person, but like, it's just when I get around, I think professionals and people in the coastal field or people in the field that I'm really interested in, I just get very nervous because like, i don't want to sound stupid. I don't, you know, i don't want to sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, or it's just like, I get very intimidated.
00:37:01
Speaker
um in situations like that. So yeah, there's no handbook for mixing all of the coastal engineering topics ah together. okay but sidebar, what is your favorite drink to enjoy? And what is your favorite drink to make?
00:37:19
Speaker
My favorite drink to make, I make a really good top shelf margarita. um I use, I don't like store-bought sour mix because it's usually just like sugar. So I just use usually Casamigos or 1800 Grand Marnier.
00:37:35
Speaker
Fresh lemon and lime juice and a little bit of simple syrup. And then I hit it with little splash of Sprite at the end. It's very good. o delicate touch with the Sprite. Yeah.
00:37:48
Speaker
My favorite drink to have. I love a dirty martini. All right. We can hang out. I'll let you know when I come down to Mobile.
00:37:58
Speaker
um I'm really regretting the fact I have to go teach after this tonight.
00:38:05
Speaker
It's so funny you mentioned your the sort of almost your split personality in terms of how you are as a bartender versus like in an academic environment. And it's it's so so funny because i was always the the super introverted, quiet, shy student when I was an undergrad and even going into grad school.
00:38:24
Speaker
And for me, like I would play basketball my entire life growing up. And when I was on a basketball court, I was kind of a show-off. And so it was kind of like that was my... like extroverted personality was the basketball personality and my introverted personality was the academic personality.
00:38:41
Speaker
And then kind of as i as I got older, like the two personalities sort of merged and kind of met in the middle. So I would say that I'm still definitely not a pure extrovert. There's a lot of faculty things that I go to here at Stevens that sometimes I'm like, I don't know. I don't i just kind of, I I have a
Impostor Syndrome and Confidence
00:39:01
Speaker
harder time you know in those types of environments still to this day, but I've been able to get over some of the like extreme introvertedness through teaching and interacting with students and stuff like that. So I think you know it's like it's like a balance, right? You figure out kind of what works. um and what I think one thing that kind of helps...
00:39:21
Speaker
is when you when you go to conferences and you talk to people or you see people and you they they're sort of humanized. So sometimes that is like you'll see them kind of present something and not be perfect.
00:39:34
Speaker
Or um you'll have a conversation with them at the bar as opposed to at the you know in a conference setting. like um Sometimes that... helps kind of bring them down to earth because we sometimes put people up on pedestals, right? The professor is perfect or the, you know, the, the particular professors in coastal engineering are, you know, are, yeah are these just, you know, almost deities like gods, right? Like, and,
00:40:02
Speaker
And then you kind of like, when you talk to them outside of those professional environments, it's kind of like, hey, you know, like I was, I was Bob Dean's student. So Bob Dean is like, you know, in coastal engineering, like the one of the names that everybody knows.
00:40:18
Speaker
And I would remember going to the office on a Saturday, seeing him in um a plain white t-shirt and really short shorts coming back from playing tennis.
00:40:29
Speaker
and like The fact that he was just out playing tennis on a Saturday morning and then came into the office and he wasn't this... You know, that was a part of him, too. Right. And so when you see that, hey, this is somebody that, you know, does things outside of coastal and is a normal person, I think it makes it easier to talk to them um and easier to kind of oh and interact in that in that more professional environment.
00:40:57
Speaker
That's just my personal perspective. And like, that's the thing that, you know, again, advice for students and new professionals, kind of blending that with the research stop spotlight, like, that's something that you can do to try to like, break the ice, I guess, a little bit.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like that's a really good point. I also, I don't know if you guys also suffer from imposter syndrome, but I feel like all throughout constantly my undergrad and any sort of, you know, academic, my academic career, it's like, I know that I've done all of the work to get to where I am. And I and i know that I know all of this stuff, but I also feel very out of place a lot of the time. I just feel like not Not necessarily that I don't belong here or that I don't belong in this setting because I know I've earned it.
00:41:43
Speaker
But at the same time, it's just it's just it's weird. i don't I don't know. I hope that you know the more practical experience I get and you know having my first job and and really ah getting some hands-on experience will change something will change that. But it is definitely something that I struggle with.
00:42:02
Speaker
I don't know. speaking Speaking for myself, I think... I don't know. think that imposter syndrome is just maybe ah part of life.
00:42:15
Speaker
i think if you're trying to do something challenging, you're going to feel imposter syndrome because you're challenging yourself. And so you don't know how to do what you're doing yet.
00:42:29
Speaker
So you kind of have to fake it till you make it for a little bit. that's That's kind of how I feel. I think... no matter where I've been no matter what experience I have, sometimes there's just that little voice of like, should I be doing this?
00:42:49
Speaker
And one of my friends who's an artist, she, I don't know if you any of you guys remember this, But in, don't know, this is like, gotta be 10 years ago, five to 10 years ago, there was a fresco of Jesus in Spain that got restored really badly.
00:43:06
Speaker
If you look it up, it's, it's, it's bad. And she has print of the bad restoration hanging over her desk that she makes art.
00:43:20
Speaker
Did you find it, Marissa? Yeah. I did just look it up, guys. Yeah, and so she has picture of the one that Marissa's laughing at hanging up over her desk that she does Yeah.
00:43:39
Speaker
Oh i need to ba out to my God. asked her, I asked her, asked my friend Claire, I was like, why do you have this hanging up?
00:43:50
Speaker
And she was like, i strive to not have imposter syndrome, but have this level of unearned confidence. yeah Because the craziest part of this whole thing is it kind of worked out for the woman and the town. So even though it was restored horrendously, all of that media buzz actually led to a tourism industry in that town to botched, you know, Jesus. Yeah.
00:44:22
Speaker
And so it really kind of worked out in the end. um and she's like, yeah, you could, you know, do something you're unqualified for and screw it up. Or you could do something you're qualified and screw it up. Like, just go for it.
00:44:35
Speaker
um And that was the pep talk that I did need. So I really love that. That's awesome. That really hit home. Thank you for that. That's so funny.
00:44:46
Speaker
John, did you look it up? Because if you haven't, you should. and I did. I did. i'd let i I let out, him I think I've muted myself, but I definitely let out a little giggle. Oh my God. So the scary thing is like, is the takeaway that if, since we're, since many of us on this podcast are involved in nature-based solutions. So if we do a bad nature-based solutions project, do we, we, do we create tourism? today It's fine. The waves will just take it away.
00:45:13
Speaker
Oh man. Sorry. Yeah. Okay, I do have a technical question, though, that I want to get to. Because, one, you're both, we're all in nature-based, well, you three are mostly in nature-based solutions.
00:45:25
Speaker
I am not as much... now.
Debate on Beach Nourishment
00:45:30
Speaker
But when does, and because this is because Amy mentioned the bridge between sedimentology, more or less, and we have like, the Corps has like a large regional sediment management program.
00:45:43
Speaker
When is a beach nourishment the same as a nature-based solution? Is it like the square and a rectangle kind of situation where under certain conditions a rectangle is a square, but ah wait, wait,
00:45:59
Speaker
we We know where you're going with it. What is the thing again? Every square is a rectangle. Not all rectangles are squares. Clearly we're engineers, not geometricians. I was so good at geometry in high school, guys. That really derailed my question. But is that kind of a situation with like beach nourishment and sediment management and nature based solutions?
00:46:22
Speaker
Well, hot take, ah personally, i think that beach nourishment should probably be considered nature-based solutions, and some other countries do. I'm pretty sure in Australia, they consider beach nourishment and dune creation part of nature-based solutions.
00:46:42
Speaker
So, you know i think... In reality, we might not see a lot of our beach nourishments as nature-based solutions because the beaches that we focus um those nourishments on are you know are so built up. you know There's such non-natural spaces with boardwalks, hotels, and million dollar houses, multi-million dollar houses.
00:47:11
Speaker
So I think we don't we don't necessarily see it that way. um But, you know, where I'm from on Long Island, for example, they do beach nourishments on parts of Fire Island that are um like national seashore.
00:47:25
Speaker
You know, it's not that I don't think, right, you look at projects like the sand engine, like maybe there's smarter ways we could be doing beach nourishments. But i i think I personally think it should fall under the category because what's the other option? A seawall?
00:47:42
Speaker
That would be the non-natural solution. Constance, is it the same on the Gulf Coast? Have there been any beach nourishments in that area of Alabama? And i don't know if you can speak to any of the designs that Moffitt and Nickel gave you to simulate an ex-beach, but was a like,
00:48:00
Speaker
beach nourishment or added sediment placement part of like one of the solutions as a test suite? It was a combination of multiple different ah like aspects of one design. So there was a beach nourishment um or like a beach fill area, marsh fill area, and then like some segmented breakwaters.
00:48:17
Speaker
um As far as beach nourishment projects in that in the Orange Beach area, I'm not very familiar with like previous or ongoing work in that area, but Dolphin Island, Alabama has had a ton of beach nourishment happen in that area. To um to me, like Amy said, it it seems like it's i mean if if it's not a nature-based solution, then what is it?
00:48:44
Speaker
It's kind of like my question. It's as opposed to like, you know, yeah, or any sort of hardened structure. So, I mean, I think it falls into the category of nature-based solutions. I'm biased. I would generally agree. I think sometimes the difference is scale and scale and intent and um sometimes the idea of placing a beach in an area, like like if you have ah um a marsh eroding marsh shoreline and you put a massive beach fill in front of it, then is it really nature-based or is it just a beach fill or it just a dredge disposal project? So I think so there's a little bit of nuance there, but generally speaking, I would agree that majority of beach nourishments are, at least in some way, a nature-based solution.
00:49:36
Speaker
And I think If we don't recognize that, we actually fail to learn from some of the history of working on beach nourishment projects that could be used to living for living, natural and nature-based solutions. right So the idea of like adaptively managing or maintaining a project, like you know, how to fund a project and think about like a 50-year lifespan, like ah a Corps of Engineers beach nourishment project. There's ah precedent out there for thinking more longer term and thinking about adaptive management and incorporating these concepts and principles that we struggle to incorporate in the non-beach nourishment, nature-based solutions right now.
00:50:13
Speaker
And I think we do a disservice if we kind of dismiss the the learning that was done when we start first started to do beach fill projects. There is a benefit to these two concepts merging, right? Regional sediment management, our beneficial use of dredged material, and now nature-based solutions and natural and nature-based features.
00:50:37
Speaker
they're all merging. And that also comes into, what comes into play is is something that Amy brought up at the beginning is being able to speak the language of both the folks who have been traditionally just sediment focused versus folks that have just been wave attenuation focused versus biology and ecology in the near shore kind of focus and being able to one, have conversations with each other instead of past each other.
00:51:06
Speaker
And two, being mutually
00:51:11
Speaker
responsible for each other's, each each different field's needs, more or less. Like, if an ecologist can understand what an engineer needs to evaluate the efficacy of a certain nature-based solution, then that is more readily available.
00:51:30
Speaker
deployable, ah more or less, right? like ah Like an ecologist who is counting the number of oysters that are growing on this man-made oyster reef can also understand that wave gauges need to be placed in certain areas and like we need to describe it in this way or or that conversation in the other way too where a traditional near shore coastal engineer needs to understand waves in a certain way, but also needs to understand, okay, well, what is, how is the biology interacting with the wave field?
00:52:05
Speaker
um And being able to have those conversations with each other. So i do think if anything, this field has forced science communication and the
00:52:19
Speaker
climate preparedness and resilience
00:52:25
Speaker
aspect of it all has forced all of us to have this conversation.
Interdisciplinary Collaboration
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah, i I would really agree, especially on interdisciplinary, or I've also heard multidisciplinary. I'm not sure what the difference is. i think there is one.
00:52:41
Speaker
But I mean, there there was a paper, i want to say that Rebecca Morris, who's at um ah University of Melbourne in Australia wrote that really highlighted one of the biggest issues with nature-based solutions is marrying those two goals, right? Like how do we design something that meets an engineering goal while also meeting these ecological expectations without sacrificing either? Like in some ways we want our cake and we want to eat it too
00:53:16
Speaker
um And, you know, a lot of the work that I've been been doing in this last push for my dissertation, um is kind of trying to look at how can we use metrics that enable us to not overbuild when we're building these solutions and how can we make sure we're engineering a little bit more naturally, like as opposed to a lot of ecologists or even some environmental engineers. I myself am certainly...
00:53:50
Speaker
not a purist, you know, i think that most of our coastlines have been modified by people, you know, like we don't have any oyster reefs really, cause we ate all of them kind of globally.
00:54:04
Speaker
um A lot of our back bays, especially in New Jersey have a different, you know, wave climate than they naturally would because we dredge navigable passage. So we've already modified these, these systems, know,
00:54:19
Speaker
so much. So I think we shouldn't worry about like so chasing this purity of nature in the nature-based piece, but trying to just mitigate those negative effects as best we can and also designing for the positive effects that we want, right? Like if we build something that's emergent most of the time, that'll do a great job at attenuating waves, but oysters need to be submerged, for example.
00:54:48
Speaker
um So there are those kind of dual do dual goals, but I think... The dialogue that we have going on, and I would say, and and John can probably speak more to this, but I think at least the dialogue in in New Jersey is pretty collaborative with engineers and ecologists and is going in a positive direction where we can we can all try to be happy with what we're getting, hopefully, and and compromise on something that does what everybody wants it to do.
00:55:19
Speaker
I agree. The the interdisciplinarity, multidisciplinarity, transdisciplinarity, however you want to phrase it, is important. I do think we have a good relationship in New Jersey amongst the groups that work in nature-based solutions.
00:55:31
Speaker
But what's and what's really, really interesting is literally five minutes before we recorded this podcast, I was at a faculty meeting and there was an award given out to one of the Stevens esteemed faculty, um had been at Stevens for over 40 years um in the field of electrical engineering,
00:55:48
Speaker
um And was a real innovator in terms of things like ah filters and modems and communications and all that stuff. And when he got the the award, literally he ran back up to the microphone to say,
00:56:04
Speaker
Really brief comments and interdisciplinarity is the thing that he stressed. Obviously, he's not working in anything close to coastal engineering. But the point that he was making was that these innovations in terms of whether they're communication technology,
00:56:19
Speaker
like It's impossible to do it in a silo. um And you know nature-based solutions, coastal engineering, it's exactly the same thing. So that concept of working with others and broadening your horizons and bringing in the right expertise Like that's something that transcends the coastal field. Like it's, it's, it's much bigger than that and applicable much more broadly.
00:56:45
Speaker
Soapbox again, we'd have like, we got to have like a drum roll. Like it's like a ah sound effect for us jumping off of our soapbox. Like maybe Marissa, you could work on that. This is actually just John's podcast. ah Not podcast. it's Yeah. You had a soapbox moment too there, Miss Rectangle Square. listen.
00:57:07
Speaker
I had a point. but We got there eventually. so that puts you one up on me. You had a point. I just generally don't have points. I just keep rambling.
00:57:17
Speaker
but Take notes.
00:57:21
Speaker
Well, so we didn't get too in depth with all of your research because we did get sidetracked, but I also want to respect your guys' this time and make sure I can give you the rest of your day to do whatever it is
Future Plans and Advice
00:57:35
Speaker
that you need to do. But I would love to know two things. One, what are your next steps?
00:57:42
Speaker
And I will say the second one afterwards. So Constance, what are your next steps? Well, currently um I'm studying for the FE exam, which is super not fun. um But after I pass both my FE and my PE, I guess I'm going to get a engineering job somewhere. i know that's very vague, um but i it's really scary to think about, you know,
00:58:07
Speaker
um not bartending anymore. And it's exciting as well, but not bartending anymore and actually using these degrees that I've spent so much time and effort on. So I was um and still am very interested in working for the Corps just for the sake of um you know, experience. And that's a great thing to have on your resume. But as Amy said earlier, um you know, not to get into politics, things are a bit, you know, so um I don't really know what that looks like anymore. yeah,
00:58:39
Speaker
so yeah i I don't really know yet. That's fair. an nom You know, actually, I'm sorry I asked. No, no, i'm glad you I'm glad you asked. I get asked that question a lot. I need to start figuring it out.
00:58:52
Speaker
I think in my brain, I'm just like, well, if i once I pass my f FE, then I can start looking for a job. and you know Well, I mean, i think the I think the thing is when the dust settles, shorelines will still be eroding.
00:59:03
Speaker
Sea levels will still be rising. and you can call it whatever you want, but there are going to be problems, and those problems will need to be addressed. Those problems will require engineers. They'll require coastal engineers, people with the expertise that like you've gotten through your your your career. so You know, if it looks a little, hey, and in the meantime, you can make mean margaritas. Oh, yes. You know, and until that works itself out.
00:59:25
Speaker
Which bar do you work at? We're coming to Mobile and I want one of those margaritas. i got you. Marissa Tiffloff. Of course. Amy, how about you after you hopefully defend in a month?
00:59:39
Speaker
Yeah, so hopefully in a month I'll defend and graduate and have a graduation party. And um I'm planning to do some high altitude trekking in Peru with a friend.
00:59:56
Speaker
to be as unreachable as possible for about 17 days. um and you know, right now I've been interviewing with a couple consulting firms and...
01:00:11
Speaker
you know hoping that I can continue doing nature-based solution work. But you know as we've all acknowledged, things are weird and bad and stink right now. um you know So I'm kind of like, I have a couple weird long shot things jobs in my back pocket just in case I've been interviewing with a place that's a startup, even though personally I would rather stay in natural and nature-based solutions um at this point anyway.
01:00:44
Speaker
um You know, it's it's another interesting option um to maybe you know, get a totally different experience from research or industry at a startup, which is, or government, which I've also done, you know, at a startup, which is super different.
01:01:03
Speaker
But yeah, it's, it's an interesting job hunt right now and trying to understand where money is and where money isn't anymore, i think is a really important part of looking for a job. and no one knows right now. it's okay. Yeah.
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I've been asking every every company, after I got burned twice, I have since been asking every company that I interview with um how diversified their client portfolio is.
01:01:32
Speaker
um And if it's only federal clients, ah i you know I have different expectations than if they have a lot of state and local and private industry clients. Yeah.
01:01:46
Speaker
Sure. That's smart. Those are good questions. So I'm dying to know, what is the second question that you had, Marissa? Oh, I'm so glad you asked, John. My second question, and it's a question that we ask all of our guests.
01:02:01
Speaker
It's a rite of passage on Going Coastal. What advice would you give to a student or young professional who is interested in pursuing a career or position similar to yours?
01:02:12
Speaker
I guess the advice that I would give is aside from hanging a picture of ah that fresco above your desk. I'm definitely going to do that.
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I added one above my desk at home after, after she showed me. um But I think I would tell someone to you know, follow what they can in industry if they want to be in industry. But at least what I noticed a lot, especially in Coastal, I think having that education in Coastal really helps, to be honest.
01:02:56
Speaker
For me personally, getting a PhD was the right decision, even though it's not an easy path to take. Um, and i don't think that I would be able to get a lot of the roles that I'm currently looking at without having gone back for the PhD, unless I was extremely lucky.
01:03:18
Speaker
Like I do have friends in industry that have gone really amazing paths within industry, but I think it takes a lot more luck if you don't have the credential, unfortunately, you know.
01:03:31
Speaker
Constance? So my advice is not necessarily for someone looking to be like in a coastal field, but like like your academic journey in general, um I would say that you can do anything, literally anything that you put your mind to.
01:03:51
Speaker
um And you very much reap what you sow and you should always be open to new ideas and opportunities because you're not sure where they'll take you. I wouldn't be here now if i didn't ask for Dr. Stephanie Patch as my advisor and didn't do undergraduate research with her and then didn't eventually do a master's program with her. And that's all just because, you know, I asked a question. So just be open to new ideas and...
01:04:23
Speaker
I know it's very cliche, but like you really can't do anything that you put your mind to. Like getting your PhD is really difficult and I'm sure that was a really difficult experience, but I mean, you put your mind to it and you did it. Same thing with the masters. It's just things are hard, but they're always very rewarding.
01:04:38
Speaker
Yeah. think I think it's interesting that we started down the path of a research student research spotlight and we ended up probably getting more career development, um, sort of advice, you know, from, ah from two, you know, young, uh, young students and soon to be new professionals in the field, which is, which is always interesting. It's always great. Right. Like, I think at the end of the day, that's the most important piece of what we do is trying to help people find their path and understand that it's not always a direct path. And, you know, I think what Constance just left us with was the perfect way to end this episode.
01:05:17
Speaker
I will say, though, in our defense, John, think we're only young students to you because you've shown your age so much in this podcast. So much. Ouch.
01:05:29
Speaker
You got me. Ouch, ouch, ouch. I'm a young professional, air quotes, but I'm also the same age as these guys who are just a few years older. so I just celebrated my 20th anniversary at Stevens, so it makes me feel old.
01:05:46
Speaker
And when did you lose your hair? i i have hair. I just choose not to have hair. Oh, is that so? may have turned gray due to my students, but I do have hair.
01:05:58
Speaker
ah do have hair Well, you wouldn't know if it's gray because you always shave it off. Every time it grows out, it they it's got a hint more gray. It's got like, you know, when you when you see it in the sunlight, like the the glint that comes off or the the glare that comes off and you're like, yeah, there's a lot of lot ah lot lot of small white hairs there. It's definitely a lot of grays up there.
01:06:19
Speaker
On that note, thank you both so much for your time and speaking with us today.
Closing Thoughts
01:06:26
Speaker
And Constance, you already defended. Congratulations. Get that defense.
01:06:32
Speaker
Good luck bringing that all to completion. And Amy, can't wait for your dissertation. ah You do have a virtual option, right? Yes, I do. Oh, look at that. Don't worry. Well, we can yeah we can post a link if you want more participants in your dissertation on May 2nd. Why not? Let's pack the Zoom.
01:06:52
Speaker
Pack the Zoom. That sounds, May 2nd, that sounds like a Friday, isn't it? Or a Thursday? It's a Friday morning. All right. Mark it down in your calendars, everybody. Amy's defending. You're the exact opposite of me. People would be like, can I come to your defense? and i'm like, absolutely not. Please don't say it.
01:07:07
Speaker
enjoy it that's the that's the that's the Can I do it in secret, actually?
01:07:15
Speaker
i still have flashbacks to my defense, and I still argue that it is the most perfect, the best presentation that I have ever given, and I will never achieve that level of presentation quality again.
01:07:31
Speaker
But I strive for it. I also don't want to put in that much work for a presentation ever again. so You're just going to host podcasts from now on? Here we are. we i started podcasts. Yeah, there you go. I didn't. I didn't.
01:07:43
Speaker
We did. That's right. yeah
01:07:48
Speaker
We would like to thank New Jersey Sea Grant for sponsoring the Going Coastal podcast. If you found this episode insightful and you want to share it with your colleagues and keep the conversation going, we would appreciate that.
01:07:59
Speaker
We'd also appreciate it if you could rate us too. I didn't even know you could rate us, but that's pretty cool if you can rate us. And lastly, if you enjoy listening to the podcast, you can also support Going Coastal while we provide sponsored episodes for your brand and or our company. So if you're interested in that, you can contact us at our email address, podcastgoingcoastal at gmail.com.
01:08:23
Speaker
Thank you for listening. Thanks, guys.