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The Coastal Journeys of Two Award-Winning Students: Brenna Derby and Vicky Gao
8 Plays4 months ago
What does it look like to break into coastal science as a student, and win national awards along the way? In this episode, Marissa Torres and Deb Fernandes talk with Brenna Derby and Vicky Gao about REUs, harmful algal blooms, environmental economics, working with ASBPA’s Science & Technology Committee, and the honest advice they wish more students heard about finding funding, taking chances, and building a coastal career that fits who you are. If you’re a student, early-career coastal nerd, or just coastal-curious, this convo is packed with stories, practical tips, and a lot of reassurance that there’s no single “right” way to build a life at the coast.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guests
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome back to the Going Coastal podcast, the podcast of the students and new professionals hosted by students and some old professionals, John Miller, Marissa Torres, and Deb Fernandez.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm one of your co-hosts, Marissa Torres. And I'm the other co-host, Deb Fernandez. Hey, guys. And today we are joined by Brenna Derby.
Focus on Student Research at ASBPA Conference
00:00:31
Speaker
She is a master's student at Stevens Institute of Technology in Ocean Engineering and Vicki Gao, undergraduate student at Belmont University with a major in economics and minoring in environmental science.
00:00:47
Speaker
This is a special episode focusing on... student research, but with a twist. These two received awards from our latest ASBPA National Coastal Conference.
00:00:59
Speaker
We're excited to have them on the show. ah Welcome. Hi, thanks for having us. Happy to be here. Thank you for having us. Awesome. I'm excited to get to know you guys because I actually was not able to attend the Coastal Conference this year for reasons. So ah this is all fresh and new
Brenna's Journey into Coastal Engineering
00:01:18
Speaker
to me. ah Brenna, what is your kind of backgrounds from how you got into coastal, how you ended up at Stevens, and what you're liking so far in the OE program?
00:01:31
Speaker
Okay, sure. So I started being interested in the environment and coastal systems um at a pretty young age. I'm in a military family, so part of that experience led me to living in Okinawa, Japan for a few years.
00:01:47
Speaker
And there I experienced some severe weather firsthand, and that really opened my eyes to coastal problems, erosion, flooding. And so I was inspired at a pretty young age to solve those problems.
00:02:00
Speaker
um I went to the University of Delaware for my undergraduate. I majored in environmental engineering, but I was interested in the coastal kind of system. So my sophomore year, I applied for the and NSF NERI program for an RU over the summer, and I got placed at Oregon State University.
00:02:21
Speaker
So perfect, coastal 101 starts there. I spent 10 weeks working with Dr. Cox and Dr. Lomonaco in the large wave flume. We did research on mangrove trees and rocker retments and how they can reduce overtopping.
00:02:38
Speaker
that was my first kind of taste of coastal. Then I came back to the University of Delaware and introduced myself to Dr. Jack Palaio, another big name in coastal. I told him I was interested.
00:02:49
Speaker
How could I get started? what What could I do at my home institution so I don't have to fly all the way back to Oregon again? So my junior year i started undergraduate research with him. That gave me a couple different opportunities, helping students with their data collection for their Ph.D. projects.
00:03:06
Speaker
And my junior summer before my senior year, I got to go to Queen's University with him and some of the other students to collect data in their basin. So I helped with that project. It was about swash zone hydrodynamics.
00:03:21
Speaker
I took that data and my senior year wrote a senior thesis on turbulence in the swash zone and how it's affected by bed roughness.
Brenna's Master's Program and Career Reflections
00:03:29
Speaker
After that, I was interested in a master's for coastal, interested in research, wanted to continue doing that. so I spent a long time reaching out to professors, interviewing, learning about projects, applying for student funding, seeing what school funding is available.
00:03:47
Speaker
And ultimately, i ended up landing at Stevens with Dr. John Miller. And it's a two-year's master's. I'm fully funded. very grateful for the opportunity. And I know it was scarce um this year for incoming students. So...
00:04:03
Speaker
I haven't started research yet at Stevens because I'm in a full academic semester right now, but I've gone to the field already three different times to help other data collection for other projects. So it's been really great and it's a lot, but I hope that's a good summary of what I've done so far. Damn, what a resume, girl. Thank you.
00:04:24
Speaker
My goodness. And she's only in her master's yet. Right? I mean, I feel like I had all of those ambitions in undergrad, but not nearly as successful of execution. So good on you. ah Remind for our you listeners who may not know what the NSF is at REU. Yes.
00:04:43
Speaker
ah What does that stand for? Sure. And REU is a research experience for undergrads. um I was specifically under the NEARI program, so the Natural Hazards Engineering Research Infrastructure.
00:04:57
Speaker
So that program, I believe, is partnered with maybe eight to 10 different universities that have large and NSF experimental facilities. So the Shake Table, the Wind Tunnel, the Wave Basin and Flume at Oregon State, like those are different examples.
00:05:13
Speaker
And so part of that process is learning about the facilities and they all study natural hazards. And the only one that really focuses on kind of coastal space is the large wave flume.
00:05:26
Speaker
So I ranked Oregon State as my most interested partner and luckily they reciprocated with my background. So I got to spend 10 weeks there. RUs are really good.
00:05:39
Speaker
um introductory experiences for undergrads because you typically get to travel to a different place. You get to experience new professors, new partnerships. And from my experience, it was a paid opportunity. So they paid for my travel, my housing, a stipend for the summer.
00:05:56
Speaker
was really great. And ultimately, my work did get published. So that was really good something to take away moving forward. And it just really kickstarted all of this.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Do you have like a, well well, I'll get the details of like your Google Scholar or wherever you put your, start listing your publications for folks if you want to follow Brenna.
Vicki's Entry into Coastal Sciences
00:06:20
Speaker
Vicky, that is kind of. Hard to follow. However, I'm sure you have an equally impressive resume. Tell me all about it. Yes. So I'm definitely um at the first tastes that Brenna um was mentioning with her first are This was um my first art eu this past summer.
00:06:42
Speaker
um I'm a junior, so um A little bit younger than Brenna, but yes. So um this summer I did an at Florida State University.
00:06:57
Speaker
It was in the Rider Center. So it stands for Resilient Infrastructure and and disaster response center. um And my REU was centered around um extreme weather and how to kind of work towards mitigating its effects and predicting it.
00:07:20
Speaker
um And yeah, so I worked in a research group under um Dr. Ibrahim Ahmad-Esharaf. um He has a hydrology group that I worked in and I worked on two projects this summer. So I um worked on flood modeling and using that to kind of um improve extreme weather responses.
00:07:49
Speaker
Then I also worked um on harmful algal blooms, and that was the research that I received my award for. um More specifically, I'll read you the title because it's kind of a mouthful.
00:08:05
Speaker
um It's quantifying the relationships between precipitation and temperature for Carinia brevis, which is harmful algal bloom. um along the Florida coast for early warning and coastal resilience.
00:08:23
Speaker
um So yeah, this summer was my first kind of exposure to coastal sciences um because I'm from Texas and so not a lot of coast down there, um but I really enjoyed it and um I'm interested in pursuing anything within the environmental field. so This was awesome to be able to get um just a glimpse into one aspect of it. And I am interested in it. So, yeah.
00:08:53
Speaker
Interesting. So ah I
Interdisciplinary Approach: Economics and Environmental Science
00:08:56
Speaker
have two questions. One, harmful algal blooms in Florida. Is this part of like the red tide algal bloom? Yes. Yeah. I got friends and family along that Gulf Coast, like near Tampa and Clearwater and stuff. Thanks for helping with that.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah. I'm wondering, ah from the from the economic standpoint, how has learning and and majoring in economics, or how has it changed your mindset and how you're learning about the environmental science and the the disaster response and resiliency side of things?
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I think for economics, I've always only wanted to pursue it through and i an environmental lens.
00:09:40
Speaker
So... Um, it's just been interesting because i think economics is a tool and, um, it's been great to be able to kind of apply it to environmental science.
00:09:55
Speaker
Um, I haven't gotten to like a ton, like the summer I didn't do it, um, like explicitly, but, um, yeah, it definitely impacted the way that I think about how to communicate, um,
00:10:11
Speaker
The benefits of predicting harmful algal blooms, like there's a lot of tourism um revenues that can be saved if we are able to predict it and prevent harmful algal blooms because that costs a lot. And then, of course, there are healthcare costs because it can cause respiratory issues for humans. And so um i really enjoy learning about how it's all kind of intertwined. And I really, really am passionate about the communication side of using economics, because I think some people and some businesses and governments um really need that economic language for them to understand how environmental issues can impact them and um actually result in benefits that are quantifiable to them.
00:11:06
Speaker
Yes, Vicky. We need more people like you, honestly. And I feel it's definitely something the more scientific group lacks.
00:11:17
Speaker
Truly. I'm tired of being asked what the return on investment is on on the research and it's hard to quantify and it's not something that we're trained for but this is exactly what you're being trained for another hype or plug for multidisciplinary transdisciplinary teams to help solve those problems for sure And I love how we have like two different profiles. Brenna, you were from the get-go and you wanted to go in Coastal and you went into Coastal from the undergrad. like
00:11:49
Speaker
It's also kind of
Diverse Paths in Coastal Science
00:11:50
Speaker
rare. I don't think we had that many people just do Coastal from a to Z. And then Vicky doing something else. like I think it's it's really cool. We all love Coastal, but we started differently.
00:12:01
Speaker
But there's a space for everyone, kind of. think it's really nice. Vicky, what part of Texas are you from? I'm from Abilene, so like central. It's like two and a half hours from like any major city. So there's not really like landmarks around. At what age did you first see the ocean? I actually saw the ocean for the first time in China.
00:12:23
Speaker
Because I go back every summer to visit family. no probably like 10, honestly. So pretty late. But I did a lot of beaching in Florida this summer. That's a big ocean to see for your first time.
00:12:36
Speaker
It's not just the Gulf.
Impact of Awards on Brenna and Vicki
00:12:38
Speaker
but o Okay, so now that we know who you are we're going to ask about what you're here basically on this podcast about the o award that you received. So it would be nice if you can give a rundown of what the award is and then explain if your research was involved, what it what it was about. Tell us all about it. Brenna, you want to start? Sure, i can start. So I was lucky enough to receive the Nicholas Krauss Coastal Scholar Award.
00:13:08
Speaker
And that award is highlighting a student who's interested in pursuing and advancing the field of coastal sciences. And through receiving the award, um i will participate as an intern with the ASBPA um Science and Technology Committee.
00:13:28
Speaker
So that's going to give me an opportunity to collaborate with practicing experts in the field, um support with the publications of white papers, and just get involved with more research that's different from what I'm doing in my master's program. So I believe that the reason I received the award is because of my dual background and the research that I've done so far in my undergrad.
00:13:54
Speaker
um So I think that's what made me a qualified candidate. think. Yes, you do have a nice portfolio. You can say it. You can be proud about it. Yes.
00:14:06
Speaker
Awesome. Do you know already what kind of research you're going to work on with S&T or not necessarily? So I had my first meeting with S&T actually earlier this week and they have three different kind of umbrellas that they're working under right now.
00:14:22
Speaker
I haven't obviously gotten started yet. I just got involved this week. ah But I should be supporting the two ongoing white papers. One is regarding relative sea level rise and guidance for that with Nick Brown, and then helping with Patrick Barano's work with I don't know if I have the official wording for it right now off the top of my head, but in general, they're working on two different papers. I'm going to support some of the data uploads and some of the figure generations and receiving feedback from our co-authors and trying to help the papers push forward.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. We need a diverse background, ah right, to contribute to these kinds of these kinds of white papers. So the experience that you bring and the background that you have. And I mean, and this in this case, it's a supportive role, but if anything, you're getting a flavor for what it is that ASBPA S&T is trying to do. And hopefully the impact that it will make down the line, um especially towards an age where...
00:15:41
Speaker
The acronym of relative sea level rise may not be accepted. um That is, I imagine,
Awards Shaping Career Goals
00:15:48
Speaker
a challenge. You guys are still in school. All three of you are still in school.
00:15:52
Speaker
um Also, all-girl podcast again. Let's go. like that. Females and Coastal, you guys are our future. Please help us. And I'm excited to see what you guys, what comes out of that. I don't have a lot of experience with the S&T committee.
00:16:08
Speaker
um I'm wondering how you think having this award and being a part of the S&T committee is going to change things for you.
00:16:19
Speaker
ah down the line and how you envision this role, not only as a resume booster, but impacting your career or what you envision as a career? Sure. So first and foremost, I'm really looking forward to connecting more with the different professionals that are part of the S&T committee.
00:16:42
Speaker
Just on the first meeting, I've been introduced to probably 20 people that I've never met before. They're in consulting, they're governments. So getting to expand my network and see what different types of career niches there are or areas that I could pursue after graduation is really beneficial to me.
00:17:04
Speaker
And then additionally, lot of my work so far has been really science research base so working with authoring papers white papers speaking to a more general audience more like government officials perspective and not just defining and engineering like a number an equation but saying to somebody what that means to them what problems we can solve with this I think that's going to give me a broader perspective of how I can take engineering discipline and make it more impactful.
00:17:42
Speaker
So something I definitely want to do in my future, no matter what my job title is, I want to feel fulfilled that my science-y work is actually helping somebody someone.
00:17:56
Speaker
definitively improving somebody's quality of life. So I think this S&T experience is going to give me a better understanding of how I can take my engineering background and morph it into like substantial effects on the general population.
00:18:13
Speaker
It's like aspiring, aspirational, if anything, right? Because I feel like Oh, you're so full of hope.
00:18:24
Speaker
I need you guys to, this is why I do this podcast. Please, the younger generation, give me hope that everything is going to get better and please improve our quality of life. I feel like we forget that sometimes, like what our original goal was when we first started this career. I'm excited for for that and and getting that government perspective that will drastically benefit the way that you will see every problem or and and and as you're trying to figure out a solution.
00:18:55
Speaker
Same with Vicky's economic side of things that goes into every single solution. When it comes down to it, it's all about the money. How much is it going to cost? What are the resources required? What's the timeline?
00:19:08
Speaker
And unfortunately, that's just that's the way things work. But if we're able to continue to push through that, know at the end of the day, we're trying to improve quality of life. Saving.
00:19:20
Speaker
Lives from coastal hazards, coastal disasters. It's this crew right here. Yeah, that's the idea. Yeah. No pressure, but save us. And Vicki, same goes for you ah Can you tell us about your award?
00:19:36
Speaker
Yes. So the award that I was also lucky enough to receive is called the Student Educational Award. So it's given to any undergraduate or graduate student who submits a paper that's within the realm of coastal science.
00:19:55
Speaker
um And they pick a paper that they think is good. And so um that's what my award was for. And I touched a little bit on the actual topic of my paper, but I can go into a little bit more depth because it's kind of abstracty whenever I just read the title.
00:20:18
Speaker
um So I guess in simple terms, basically what my paper is about is seeing if I lag certain meteorological variables like um precipitation and air temperature, will that help um in predicting harmful algal blooms, Carina brevis blooms um in the Florida coast. And I use machine learning as my medium for this. So all of this was data analysis work. It wasn't really like going out into the ocean and collecting data. So
00:20:54
Speaker
um It was mostly on the data analysis side. And I did it in two ways. One, event-based with a hurricane, Hurricane Michael, just to see in an isolated time um what the effects of the lag variables would be in the case of an extreme weather event.
00:21:13
Speaker
And then I did long-term and... um The overarching results or takeaway is that lag variables did improve machine learning model predictions of Carinia brevis blooms.
00:21:30
Speaker
And going forwards, it's it can be a helpful framework. It would be helpful if there was more data that was consistent across the Florida coast. But yeah, that's basically my paper.
00:21:44
Speaker
And so by lags, you mean um you're looking at the data just from the data standpoint. And if you were to say, look at a time series of precipitation versus whatever metric that we have for the algal blooms, if you're looking at the timing of precipitation, whether it's plus or minus a certain range, that may correlate better with the rise and fall the the series of the blooms is that right yes that is right so I did antecedent so it was always before the recorded like cell count of carina brevis so that was all statistical so in your undergrad you're using mlai what kind of programming language are you using for that
00:22:31
Speaker
Um, I'm using Python. Okay, sick. I'm quite new to coding, to be completely honest. I went into this summer, like not having any coding experience. So was crazy, but very thankful to have been exposed to it and gotten the opportunity to kind of hone my skills. For sure.
00:22:52
Speaker
Yeah, Vicky is a do it all. Fashion learning, economics, biology, engineering. Hell yeah. Casually picking up Python.
00:23:03
Speaker
The next generation is good. I think we're saved, Marissa. ah Music to my ears. So for Vicky, how do you think acquiring this um educational award will change things for you in your perceived career for for what you envision for yourself? Yeah, so... um I think it was just really encouraging to receive it.
00:23:26
Speaker
And um I was invited to go in person to the coastal conference, and i was able to secure some funding for it from my university.
00:23:38
Speaker
And just being there and meeting people and just, I guess, getting to know how many things you can do are out there that are related to coastal.
00:23:50
Speaker
um And I was able to meet an environmental economist, and those are very few and far between. so i was very excited about that. um Yeah, it meant a lot to me. And it was just, um like I said, like encouraging, opening, overall, just Very thankful.
00:24:11
Speaker
That's sweet. Was this your first ASPPA conference? Was this your first conference at all? Yes, both. Awesome. What'd you think? It was, okay, it was great, but I was only able to be there for the first day.
00:24:26
Speaker
So I wasn't able to attend like any actual sessions, which I was sad about. i was only there for the day when I was accepting my award because it was my fall break and there was just things I couldn't work around. But it was still very cool to be there. And I was able to present my research on a poster. That was a great experience as well. Awesome.
00:24:51
Speaker
That's like a pretty chill first conference experience. So you just got like a taste of it. Yes. You know, it only gets magnified from there. so Yes, I'm going to another one in November and i I know it's going to be a lot more intense. Which conference? I think it's called the International Mechanical Engineering something?
00:25:14
Speaker
Exposition? Interesting. what What are we doing there? I'm also presenting my poster, but I assume there will be like a ton of posters and a lot of people. Where is it? It's in Memphis, Tennessee, so not too far from me right now.
00:25:27
Speaker
I'm a national. International conference conference. Happens to be in the US. Same with ICCE this year. ah Let's go back to Galveston. ASBPA was just there last year. i agree.
00:25:39
Speaker
Right? Going back to Brenna, I'm wondering from your experience so far, you're already through your ah going through your master's.
Is a PhD the Right Path for Brenna?
00:25:50
Speaker
Do you... anticipate, do you think that you might stay on for a PhD? Are you trying to just jump right into like, let's get out of academia and let's try to change the world?
00:26:03
Speaker
Well, isn't this the question that everyone's asking me right now? You're at that time. Here's my thought process. When I was doing my undergraduate, I never considered going to graduate school. I never thought I was the person to get a master's or a PhD.
00:26:22
Speaker
until I went to Oregon State and I worked on a master's student's project, helping her conduct that. Shout out to Margaret Libby. And I saw a lot of myself in her.
00:26:36
Speaker
And it wasn't until meeting somebody that I felt I resonated with that the idea popped into my head of, oh, maybe I could do my master's degree. So i'm like I like to say that right now,
00:26:52
Speaker
I'm confident in my master's degree. And i did actually do an internship this summer before starting at Stevens in coastal consulting down in Miami.
00:27:04
Speaker
So I know what that's like. And I was really excited and I ah really enjoyed my internship. So I'm not dying to stay in school, but if I meet someone who I see myself in who's pursuing a PhD, or if I get inspired by my mentors, I know Dr. Miller and Dr. Jansen at Stevens would be happy to keep me around. i think there's a possibility that I could stay for a PhD.
00:27:28
Speaker
And I think the root of that possibility is that i do really enjoy academia and research. And I honestly really could see myself being a professor,
00:27:39
Speaker
down the line. And I know my favorite professors in my undergrad had real experience before, like industry experience before. So that's my reservation um to not just be a textbook professor, but to have industrial experience to refer back on.
00:28:01
Speaker
So the teetering hands of the scale, I'm not sure. um we'll see how timing funding projectability all those variables play out in the next year and a half very true good to keep your options open and i'd say phd will always be there like you don't have to jump right into it it's cool to also take a break from academia i feel like some time and then go back in you're appreciated more And I agree with having a professor that went into the industry.
00:28:36
Speaker
I feel like those people as professors, they always have little fun facts, crazy stories that they can share and really show us how to put the knowledge, like what they were trying to teach us into actionable and real life situations. Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker
I feel like professors who have industrial experience or just experience out doing the things that they studied, there's way more grounded. Right. And they give... more than just classroom advice.
00:29:04
Speaker
You know, one of my favorite professors from the University of Delaware worked at the epa for, i think, 10 years before going back for her PhD. So she was giving that experience to us and like really helping the environmental undergrads decide like, oh, do I want to go into like environmental justice or environmental engineering, like hard engineering? So she just had so much experience to refer back to. And I think In the long run, that would be the goal is to like be really educated on topics, but also be able to give.
00:29:38
Speaker
real life experience and advice on not just the engineering, but the careers and all that fun, complicated stuff. The social aspect as well, for sure. Yeah, it's the social, it's the soft skills. It's what you gain in the mentoring and just being around different people with different skill sets.
00:29:57
Speaker
They don't teach you those things. You know, there's no formal education in that. There's, you know, there's professional development I feel like there should be some extracurricular graduate programs that are focused around some soft skills in order to prepare them for what life as a practicing engineer is actually like. Right. Which is a lot of writing and communicating.
00:30:18
Speaker
Right. There you go, Brenna, as a professor, when you know what to do now. Change the curriculum. I think they ah they try to give you a taste of that in like your senior design course when they put you in a group of people that you didn't choose to work with.
00:30:36
Speaker
Some of them are only in three credits trying to finish up. They're working 30 hours a week already. You're still trying to get that good GPA for grad school.
00:30:47
Speaker
And you're trying to pull people into a project that they know they're going to pass the class no matter what they do. So I think they try. That's the social aspect.
00:30:58
Speaker
what That's a petri dish experiment. If that was the goal of senior design, they should have told us that up front. To be like, these are the actual skills we want you to learn.
00:31:10
Speaker
Not just... all the technical work, who's putting in the most work, get a good grade. Like, actually, these are the soft skills that you're going to learn.
Vicki's Career Path Uncertainty
00:31:22
Speaker
And how about you focus on those and think about those for once in your life? Because all you've been working towards is finishing and getting that good GPA and making sure that you're succeeding.
00:31:33
Speaker
If only the professors got along that well. Brenna will be there to change it, to change the course of history. After 10 years in consulting. There you go. Where she gets her bag and makes her nest egg and then she can go into academia. Right.
00:31:49
Speaker
Perfect. I'll run for president while I'm at it. It's too much. No, no. Too much. You got you got to focus on the things that actually are going to save people. What about you, Vicky?
00:32:00
Speaker
Do you know where you're heading to? you want to stay in academia? You want to? work in consulting, what's your dream job? It's complicated because I really don't like to overcommit to something in my head before I've tried it.
00:32:17
Speaker
Like this summer, I did research for 10 weeks and I really enjoyed it. So I've kind of nailed down academia as ah possibility, but I don't want to close myself off to other possibilities just because it like i enjoyed it.
00:32:33
Speaker
um Like, I really want to get a consulting internship sometime and then see how much I like that. But I think right now the dream job would be just some kind of intersection of, communicating like I was saying earlier, like communicating the impacts of environmental issues um using economics and and preferably ah job where I can, like Brenna was kind of talking about, like see the impacts of what I'm doing.
00:33:10
Speaker
um And it would be great if I could like be involved in a community, like in the community outreach aspect. And i don't know, I just think I would really enjoy like having a lot of different facets coming together and um a job where I can always be learning something new. All that to say, i'm not totally sure.
00:33:34
Speaker
i don't know until I've tried it. I actually, i came into undergrad as a songwriting major because I was like, you know, I'm going to try it. And if it doesn't work out, it's okay. So yeah, lots of pivots, but I'm more sure about environmental econ than I was about songwriting. So Oh my gosh. So do you still compose?
00:33:59
Speaker
I don't do it as much um because I got so burnt out, like having something creative as like my profession or my studies, I guess.
00:34:12
Speaker
So I don't as much, but I really enjoyed it when I was doing it. It was awesome. Yeah. So if I'm understanding correctly, you were doing it and doing it and it's something that you loved, but you ended up burning yourself out on the creative aspect of it. And that's when you switched.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yes. I mean, it was not only like pressuring myself into like thinking like, oh, I need to write the best thing ever every time I sit down to write.
00:34:40
Speaker
But also there were a lot of other aspects like um the amount of work that you put into it isn't going to be always proportional to what you get out of it. And I couldn't really deal with that uncertainty.
00:34:54
Speaker
um And there was just a lot of like, there's been like, you know, the rise of um indie artists, and you have to promote yourself.
00:35:05
Speaker
And I hated that. I hated like, having to, you know, make myself seem a certain way. And I just couldn't deal with all those other aspects.
00:35:16
Speaker
But I really enjoyed the core of creating and I love music still. So. That's great. Do you play? Yeah. So I sing and I play keys and I play a little bit of guitar. I do hope that you continue to do that for yourself, if anything.
00:35:35
Speaker
I hope so too. Whenever I can find the time now. Do you, so you're still an undergrad. Do you take any um fine arts or like music classes? I'm actually in choir right now because. Awesome.
00:35:47
Speaker
Did it all growing up and I missed it and I needed to keep some aspect of like a creative outlet. So. I'm in that right now. Hell yeah. That's great. Do you guys have like a winter concert?
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah, we do. Belmont does like a huge concert. um It's called like Christmas at Belmont. And it was on like Amazon Prime streaming last year. So what kind of big event, but yeah. Damn. Let me just make a note to just, I got Prime, Belmont universities, winter, what is it? I'm sorry. Winter. Christmas at Belmont. Christmas at Belmont, dude.
00:36:26
Speaker
Check it out. Listeners. You got Prime. That's insane. If you landed, like if a university has an Amazon video, like Prime deal, like, for a Christmas concert.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'm on it. Yeah, it's pretty cool. All the things you can do and you are interested for. And i' totally get it that having a creative thing that you like you're obliged to create probably counteracts the whole purpose of being creative sometimes.
00:36:53
Speaker
Truly. So my question is, how did you transition from wanting to write songs and being like, oh, I... love like the environment. I want do something for the environment and I would do it through a economic lens.
From Songwriting to Environmental Economics: Vicki's Journey
00:37:09
Speaker
Crazy pivot. So I, I loved environmental advocacy things like growing up. um I like love watching nature documentaries. I watched one probably now a kind of cheesy like YouTube video in like seventh grade that was like the environment's dying and only you can, you know, do something about it. And um I like in eighth grade, I started a petition to replace styrofoam lunch trays in my school district because I wanted to.
00:37:38
Speaker
And so, yeah, like that seed has always been there. And I was going to do environmental science before I decided on songwriting. So I was always certain about that part. But then after I dropped songwriting, I couldn't add on environmental science as a major because it wouldn't work out in my degree plan.
00:37:57
Speaker
So I felt like a little bit lost. um And then that fall, I was in macroeconomics course. And I found that I loved a lot of parts of it that were similar to what I loved about environmental science.
00:38:14
Speaker
I loved how much it touches like every aspect of society and can be a tool, which environmental science isn't a tool, but like oh It also touches every aspect of society. And I realized that using that economics as a tool for communication um was something that I thought I could do. i was interested in and was needed. yeah.
00:38:41
Speaker
That's how i landed that. Yeah, so you've been an activist since eighth grade. so And you're doing it through Accountivist. Pretty cool. I like it. Awesome.
00:38:52
Speaker
Who knows? You might end up at an ah at a nonprofit or an NGO one day. Yeah. So
Advice for Aspiring Coastal Scientists
00:39:00
Speaker
this is the end of this episode, and we always want to end it with one question. And that question is, what advice would you give to a student or a young professional who is interested in pursuing a career or position or path similar to yours?
00:39:18
Speaker
Brenna, you want to go? Sure. yeah I've had this conversation couple times recently because i was pretty involved with undergraduates at University of Delaware and mentorship. So i would say my piece of advice for someone who's interested in pursuing coastal engineering in today's current status of graduate programs, PhD programs, I would say it's very important to see what your undergraduate institution provides um if they have a program that you would be higher prioritized to be transitioned into
00:39:56
Speaker
um If your school doesn't have something that resonates with what you want to pursue, then I think you should try to find at least one person senior to you, preferably in academia if that's what you're pursuing, and have a conversation with them.
00:40:14
Speaker
I think a lot of my coastal knowledge and advice has been word of mouth through these great mentors that I've had along the way, from Dr. Cox to Dr. Puleo, now Dr. Miller.
00:40:26
Speaker
There's not a lot of physical or electronic resources. Maybe I'm naive, but to my understanding from a general undergraduate experience, Google searching things, um there isn't a very defined pathway towards coastal engineering. This is something that's being you know addressed and it's talked about at the National Coastal Conference and it's things that people want to define, but it's not yet well-defined. So I think it really does require having somebody talk to you, tell you their experience, what they would recommend, schools that they know of, funding they know of, professors they know of.
00:41:04
Speaker
I was connected to Dr. Miller because Dr. Paleo and Dr. Miller went to graduate school together. So hearing that is what got me to where I am.
00:41:15
Speaker
So just sometimes knowing the right person can get you in a door that you didn't even know existed. And I think that's what a lot of people entering Coastal experiences. Like there's a whole hallway.
00:41:26
Speaker
And when you Google something, you might only see like Noah pop up, but then there's like 30 more doors of all of the different ways you can get involved. So find somebody and it's pretty easy. Just start emailing people.
00:41:40
Speaker
And if they're not the right person, they'll connect you with another person and then another and another. And you might spend your whole summer on Zoom calls with people, but you'll learn something along the way. Wow. Sorry. That was a lot.
00:41:52
Speaker
That's my one piece of advice, my three minutes. Yes. No, but it's like, okay, so for anyone who is like afraid of cold emailing someone, remember that these professors or anybody in their field loves talking about their research or themselves or their field.
00:42:15
Speaker
So it is okay. Just reach out to them. They're happy to talk to you and start that conversation. Sometimes they'll even respond with a PowerPoint or a recorded lecture, just, oh, watch this.
00:42:29
Speaker
Here's what I have. My goodness. As the the curmudgeon in me, pre-AI times, Be yourself and draft an email yourself.
00:42:40
Speaker
Nobody wants to read an AI generated email because you're not sure how to word things. That's one of those soft skills that you will learn on the job. So this goes back towards the mentoring. If you receive an email that is like really well done, ask that person, can you teach me how to write an email like you do? I really like the way that you do that.
00:43:00
Speaker
How do you do that? Don't be afraid to just be yourself. And I feel like maybe in the coastal fields, we're pampered or sheltered from trying to distinguish ourselves from the ai network ah in some way where we actually have people still looking at emails instead of just going through a filter. But I guess if you are in the coastal field, like you're home, you're you're safe.
00:43:24
Speaker
It's okay. You can email these folks and be yourself. Vicky, same question. to you Yes. So I totally agree with you, Brenna. I think um finding mentors and not being afraid to talk to people is so important, um not just for coastal, I think just like in general.
00:43:46
Speaker
And then obviously think I um am able to give any expertise on um environmental economics, but I would just say in general for just any undergrad wanting to get more professionally involved or maybe do research, um I have three things that I thought of.
00:44:06
Speaker
The first is to not be afraid to try new things. um Sunk cost fallacy. Just because you've been in it doesn't mean you have to keep doing it if it's not what you want.
00:44:20
Speaker
The second thing is to not be afraid of applying for positions that you truly are interested in and think you will enjoy. The program that I was in this summer was in the College of Engineering, and I am not an engineering student, um but I somehow got it and I enjoyed it so much.
00:44:42
Speaker
And and You can always learn on the job. Yeah. So don't limit yourself. And then the third thing is just to be curious and stay curious about not just, you know, anything necessarily constrained to the professional realm, but also just like about people and about how they ended up where they are and just be curious about.
00:45:05
Speaker
the world around you. I love it. Those themes, everything that both of you said are definitely ah recurrent themes and recurrent advice that we get here on the show. And um having that networking drive to actually email anyone, it will be received well. And then to be curious,
00:45:21
Speaker
and to be passionate. And if you commit, make sure that you're ready to commit for the four next year of your life into something that you like. So yeah, those are definitely amazing advice for our audience and our listeners. So thank you very much.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yes, thank you both. It's been a pleasure speaking with you today. and I'm sure our listeners are going to gain so much valuable information from both of your paths and your journeys.
00:45:48
Speaker
This has been great. It's great to meet you. Yes. Thank you both so much. This has been wonderful. thanks for having us. Thank you so much for listening on Going Coastal this month. We'd like to thank the New Jersey Sea Grant for sponsoring this podcast.
00:46:05
Speaker
In case you were wondering, the ASBPA National Coastal Conference was just this past October in ah Long Beach, California. And I'm pretty sure next year is our 100th celebration and we'll be back on the East Coast. Stay tuned for more information on that as we get closer to that event.
00:46:23
Speaker
And in case you were wondering, the International Conference of Coastal Engineering, or ICCE, is coming to the U.S. s back in Galveston, Texas, sometime in May 2026. While abstracts were due this past, probably before you listened to this episode,
00:46:42
Speaker
I think there might be posters at ICCE. I'm not sure. But check ICCE2026.com for more information on that conference. And finally, there was also the AGU 2025 annual meeting.
00:46:56
Speaker
It will be held in New Orleans, Louisiana, from the 15th to the 19th of December. And you can still submit an abstract or late-breaking sessions through November fifth There's also an option to attend virtually. Thanks for tuning into Going Coastal. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next one.
00:47:16
Speaker
Your ratings and reviews help more coastal professionals and ocean lovers find us. So drop us some stars and let us know what you think. And if you'd like to partner with us or sponsor a future episode, please reach out.
00:47:29
Speaker
We'd love to share your story and your brand with our community. Contact us at our email address, podcastgoingcoastal at gmail.com. Thanks for listening. Bye.