Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 5: Planning and Implementation - Staying Resilient in a Changing Environment with Nick Angarone
7 Plays1 year ago
This month on Going Coastal, co-hosts Jon Miller & Marissa Torres speak with Mr. Nick Angarone of the NJ Department of Environmental Protection for a special Coastal Policy episode. Nick has worn many hats over his distinguished career as a city and region planner and currently serves as the Chief Resilience Officer (CRO) for the state of New Jersey, the Manager of the Office of Climate Resilience, and a NJ Coastal Manager. Join us to understand how the little things can make the biggest difference for your community!
✨ Calling all Citizen Scientists: Check out mycoast.org/nj to learn how you can contribute to the scientific community and strengthen our ability to execute emergency planning and management!
Thank you to NJ Sea Grant for sponsoring this episode. Remember to register for the RAE Coastal & Estuarine Summit in Arlington (Oct 6-10). It was so fun to see everyone in Galveston at the ASBPA National Coastal Conference this year! We’re looking forward to seeing and hearing you again in Long Beach, CA October 2025.
👉 Enjoying our podcast? Support us and get sponsored episodes for your coastal company. Contact us at podcastgoingcoastal@gmail.com.
Tune in now and stay coastal! 🌊
#GoingCoastal #Podcast #CoastalPolicy #CoastalStudies #ProfessionalDevelopment #ASBPA #NJSeaGrant #ASBPA #SNP #Students #NewProfessionals
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hey, welcome back to the Going Coastal podcast, the podcast of the students and new professionals in the coastal field hosted by John Miller, Marissa Torres and Deb Fernandez. I'm one of your co-host John Miller. And I'm also one of your co-host Marissa Torres.
Relaunch Focus: Coastal Policy
00:00:24
Speaker
This one's episode is special in that it's the first episode since our relaunch that's focused on coastal policy. Today, we're excited to have a special guest to kick off the rebirth of this coastal policy series.
Meet Nick Anguero, NJ Chief Resilience Officer
00:00:36
Speaker
Nick Anguero, or as we like to call him locally, the Crow. and We'll explain that a little bit later. Nick has a ah long and distinguished career within the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection and currently serves as New Jersey's Chief Resilience Officer and the Manager of the Office of Climate Resilience. Nick, welcome to the Going Coastal podcast. John, Marissa, good to see you. Happy to be here.
00:01:02
Speaker
Great to have you. um One of the things that we always start off with is just a a little bit of a kind of get to know the person question. So ah just kind of give you a very open ended, you know, who are you? What do you do? How did you get where you are? And we'll go from there. Sure. So um So for professionally and by education I'm a planner in New Jersey, I have my both my undergraduate degree and my masters from Rutgers University. um My master's in urban and regional planning from the Blaustein School of
Nick's Role in Post-Hurricane Sandy Planning
00:01:38
Speaker
Rutgers. So I have been.
00:01:40
Speaker
working in that space so for about 25 years now. I've been at the Department of Environmental Protection since 2004. In my time at DEP, I've always worked on environmental planning um or you know working with communities in some and some level. ah That has ranged from working on New Jersey's state development and redevelopment plan, you know working with the Highlands Regional Master Plan and the Highlands Council. I did a ah couple of years working on wastewater management planning, which is not something I ever expected to do in my career, but was extremely educational and added to my understanding of infrastructure and you know water quality issues and what municipalities are dealing with in the state. I happen to be
00:02:39
Speaker
working in the same program as the New Jersey Coastal Management Program when Hurricane Sandy hit us back in 2012 and twelve and yeah quickly joined the Coastal Program and started working on ah resilience planning initiatives um with significant support from our federal partners ah soon after Sandy and have been working on primarily if not solely on those issues ever since. um John, as you as you noted, I'm currently New Jersey's Chief Resilience Officer. um and I also manage the Office of Climate Resilience at the Department of Environmental Protection.
Responsibilities as Chief Resilience Officer
00:03:22
Speaker
In that role, I wear several hats. So as Chief Resilience Officer, I am Vice Chair of the Interagency Council on Climate Resilience.
00:03:32
Speaker
which was established by governors Murphy's executive order 89. Uh, that's presently made up of 26 agencies and departments in state government, where we seek to develop and coordinate state level policy on climate resilience. Uh, within DEP, uh, I am, I am officially also New Jersey's coastal manager. So I administer New Jersey's coastal management program.
00:03:58
Speaker
We oversee ah New Jersey's resilience planning initiatives, most importantly, the Resilient MJ program. And the Blue Acres program has been under me for the last two or so years now. And so we you know I think you can see through that really short description that a lot of our time and energy is focused on providing our local governments with the information they need to make climate-informed decisions.
00:04:29
Speaker
It's a lot of hats. ah so you know i think um you know the the One of the things that we find when we talk with a lot of you know young people, students, new professionals, is that they they sort of fall into coastal almost by accident.
00:04:49
Speaker
you know i think One of the things we talk a lot about on this program is a lack of, I guess awareness of coastal career paths. So, you
Coastal Awareness in NJ Professional Roles
00:04:58
Speaker
you know, you're playing a very big role and it's not that everything that you do is coastal, but a lot of it is. So maybe can you talk a little bit kind of about, you know, finding coastal or how it has been kind of getting involved in that space?
00:05:14
Speaker
Sure. So ah New Jersey is New Jersey is a coastal state. Uh, and depending on how you define it, you know, either the entire state or some portions, some significant portion thereof is, you know, a coastal watershed or a coastal County. Um, and so virtually everything that we do in New Jersey has some impact on our coastal resources, you know, whether that be kind of the the natural natural resources or our economic and and community resources. And so, you know, growing up in New Jersey, right, and, you know, my summers were spent at the Jersey Shore. And, you know, so to some extent, I think it's almost ingrained in you and most people in New Jersey, right? It is part of kind of who we are in New Jersey.
00:06:10
Speaker
um you know But I think without without kind of you know growing up um and kind of seeing you know you know what the what our coastal area and what our coastal zone you know could be and what it already includes and kind of what a profession in in the in that space can be. ah So as as you will not be surprised to hear, but my wife also works at DEP.
00:06:42
Speaker
You know, our dinner table conversations are perhaps boringly um around policy and coastal issues and land use issues in New Jersey. So, you know, my daughter is going to be a freshman in college and she's going on to study marine bio. And so it's been ingrained in her, right? At least the importance of, of coastal issues in the state.
Impact of NJ Jobs on Coastal Resilience
00:07:06
Speaker
I think it's also important to think about it very broadly.
00:07:12
Speaker
Right again, anything that we do virtually everything we do in New Jersey has some level of coastal impact. And so, you know, I say this about, you know, resilience and I think it's it also pertains, you know, to to coastal and coastal management issues is every job is a resilience job every job.
00:07:32
Speaker
in New Jersey is a coastal job, and you don't have to be you know putting on waders and going out into a marsh to have an impact on what happens in New Jersey's coastal zone. You don't have to be making specific land use decisions to have an impact on what happens in New Jersey's coastal zone.
00:07:51
Speaker
you know you're your individual decisions, your professional decisions, all have have an impact. And so and having that basic understanding of you know New Jersey as a coastal state, I like to think about it as every job, every career in New Jersey is a resilience career, is ah is a coastal career.
00:08:14
Speaker
That's an interesting look on it. It's towards our stewardship as individuals in our personal and professional lives to protect our or being aware of how our actions affect our coastal systems and our environment overall. Now there's in in your title and in a lot of the work that you're doing at Department of Environmental Protection, Chief Resilience Officer, Climate Resilience. what I just want to kind of clarify, what does resilience mean to you? um And how are you communicating that through your policy to our local communities?
Defining Climate Resilience in New Jersey
00:08:59
Speaker
Sure. So, you know, New Jersey officially defined what climate resilience means to us back in the 2021
00:09:11
Speaker
statewide climate change resilience strategy. But in short, if you, if you look up the word resilient, right in the dictionary, right, it kind of talks about bouncing back to kind of where you were, how you respond to an event. But we, we also want to make sure that we're looking forward and making sure that, you know, we're better able to handle and respond to increasing climate impacts and making our our communities, our our state, our economies, our natural systems better able to respond and adapt to those climate impacts, right?
NJ's Climate Change Resilience Strategy
00:09:52
Speaker
we We've done a good amount of work in New Jersey really looking at what the impacts of climate change are going to be here, right? there're
00:10:04
Speaker
there's tons of national and international reports and studies about the impacts of climate change. But back in 2020, we released New Jersey's first scientific report on climate change. We're really looking at what the impacts were going to be right and our in our backyards here in New Jersey. And we've, you know, since that time, updated that a couple of times. We have specifically and developed an addendum that looks at kind of communities and health impacts from climate change. We have additional studies and reports on sea level rise in New Jersey and specific New Jersey projections. We have specific New Jersey projections on increased precipitation events in the state. and so
00:10:56
Speaker
Great. All of our, all of our policy and planning is really based on that current and constantly updated, updated science. And so I mentioned, you know, again, the the statewide climate change resilience strategy.
00:11:11
Speaker
which was developed by the Interagency Council back amidst COVID while we were all working in our kitchens and our
Blue Acres Program for Flood Response
00:11:18
Speaker
basements. um But what what did that ah strategy includes is you know over 125 different recommendations and actions to guide state agencies to help make the state more resilient. And as I noted previously right a lot of the work that and I do and that my programs do at DEP is provide assistance directly to local governments. And so, you know, in the Blue Acres program, Blue Acres is a voluntary buyout program. It is a recognized as ah as a national best practice in how buyouts occur. It's been around since 1995 and has, you know, been is a permanent is a permanent program. um Right. so
00:12:07
Speaker
with state funding, um which allows us to constantly work on work with our communities and work with individual and residential homeowners to help them both respond to kind of blood disasters, but also help them find housing that is ah more appropriate for them. And we help them a lot with addressing their mortgage mortgage issues.
00:12:36
Speaker
the staff from Blue Acres. They're really amazing people. You know they're they're the folks that will be in the living rooms holding people's hands literally and figuratively through the process. And and it takes a a special kind of person to do that with with homeowners and families that have just been devastated by ah flooding. We also have you know I mentioned our resilient NJ program and that is a ah national Nationally it was originally nationally funded by the natural disaster resilience competition, but it provides direct technical planning assistance to communities throughout the state. ah We try and do that. We prefer to do that at ah at a regional scale, multi municipalities at ah at one time, right? The water doesn't recognize municipal boundaries and more should our understanding of the impacts of those climate impacts. And so, you know, we've worked with over 40 municipalities at this point.
00:13:34
Speaker
both at a regional regional levels and individual levels, and provide them the experts to help them understand their risk of vulnerability to climate impacts, but then go through a ah really multi-year robust community engagement process to identify how they, how the community wants to respond to those risks of vulnerabilities.
00:14:02
Speaker
and so But beyond that it also identifies the actions. right We consider them action plans we're developing. How what are the specific steps and projects and activities that the communities want to undertake. I'm also quite pleased to say that that initial investment in that planning has resulted in over 24 million dollars in additional federal awards.
00:14:32
Speaker
for implementation of the actions identified in those plans. being And that's how that's how we want this to work. I'm a planner. I love planning. I think it's critically important in planning results in better projects and a better path forward. But if we don't implement what's in the plans then that was just you know a fun activity for me. And so you know really seeing those activities identified in the plans through fruition is some of the most important work I think that we and me do. It's interesting to hear you talk about sort of moving from that federal level to the state level and then to the to the local communities. In particular, are there are there challenges? I know you had mentioned you know the the standard definition of resilience about you know building back or coming back to what was, and then New Jersey wanting to look forward. And I know a lot of federal policies still
00:15:27
Speaker
consider the build back what was there kind of ah approach and we've kind of tried to go beyond that. Are there particular challenges in trying to link that up with maybe what communities want to do? Maybe communities want to go too far. Maybe they just, they're doing crazy stuff. Like how do you kind of reconcile some of the the differences across that spectrum from federal to state to local? So so first, I think the federal government in the last few years under this current administration has really also started to make the shift from simply kind again bouncing back to what we had previously to making sure that we are improving rebuilding and improving our our infrastructure our communities our natural systems to make them more resilient to make sure they can adapt to
00:16:20
Speaker
future or current future climate
Challenges in Resilience Funding Coordination
00:16:23
Speaker
impacts. So I think honestly, it's it's less <unk> less of a struggle than it used to be. As somebody who's worked in government for you know over 20 years you know as a as a bureaucrat, the the biggest struggle with our federal partners is the bureaucracy, is getting right things from identification You know, so let's say a disaster event, right? Whether it was Sandy or, you know, more recently Ida in New Jersey, you know, getting the getting from that disaster declaration to establishment of the funding programs at the federal agencies to actually getting the resources to the state in a way, and then approving what the state's plans are to do with, with those resources, you know, where.
00:17:16
Speaker
So we're just about at three years after the remnants of Tropical Storm Ida devastated communities in central and northern New Jersey. And, you know, only in recent months have we had the full approvals from our federal funding partners to utilize the funding that was awarded in response to those disasters. So that was that was largely for for our purposes through through FEMA to the Office of Emergency Management and some of the
00:17:57
Speaker
programs through them as well as through U.S. HUD through New Jersey Department of Community Affairs to to New Jersey and a lot of that has been funding for for buyouts through the Blue Acres program. And so but you see families who experienced that flooding three years ago and we're now just able to really have the conversations with them and do the the difficult work to get them through that buyout process. And so what we see is the further away we get from an event, the less likely someone is to want to continue to move forward with with a buyout. you know They've already either kind of reconstructed or you know they couldn't wait lot that long and have sold.
00:18:48
Speaker
so you we it's It's that delay, I think is the biggest struggle in and really responding to responding to those those events. I think let's let's ah move on to something a little bit different. So I think when when we introduce you you said locally, we call you the CRO.
Chief Resilience Officer's Government Role
00:19:11
Speaker
So those listeners that are really paying attention have probably worked out. CRO stands for Chief Resilience Officer, an acronym.
00:19:20
Speaker
so I know, so can you explain a little bit about kind of, I guess, what CRO is, what CRO means, what it allows you to do? Because I know a chief resilience officer at any level, whether it's federal, state, local, is not something that's overly common. um So can describe, why is it necessary? Why do we need a CRO? Sure. So it's, it's not common at all. To my knowledge, there's only one other
00:19:51
Speaker
Chief Resilience Officer in the state of New Jersey, and that is in the city of Hoboken, who is really doing some amazing work and this is a leader in in this and this area. Depending on the level of government the Chief Resilience Officer is located in will determine the focus as well as the you know issues of that individual community.
00:20:19
Speaker
both from kind of a climate impact as well as the overall issues. issues so you know at ah At a city scale or municipal scale, you know a lot of that work is going to be trying to incorporate climate resilience into every single decision. It might be doing that simply through working through You know, with the other, uh, kind of offices in, in that, in that city government, um, it might include, you know, development of plans and grant applications. It's still very focused, I think nationally where there are other chief resilience officers on kind of the disaster response and the emergency management. There's a lot of, there's a lot of chief resilience officers that are also kind of in the emergency management and hazard mitigation space.
00:21:19
Speaker
And so, you know, and there's, there's a good amount of of overlap there, but at the state level in New Jersey, the position, the role of the Crow is really to work with other state agencies to develop and coordinate policy.
Integrating Climate Resilience in State Policy
00:21:36
Speaker
Right. So we've done that through a number of ways. I mentioned previously the interagency council on climate resilience where we, you know, we meet monthly and we try to.
00:21:48
Speaker
figure out you what are the policies that we need to put in place or just modify existing policies and programs in New Jersey to recognize and consider climate impacts right now and into the future. We very much try not to focus on simply responding to disasters. We have a ah very good Office of Emergency Management who is on the council.
00:22:17
Speaker
um But you know we we do try and look a little bit further ahead in in some of our some of our programs and policies and and decision making. um there's There's similarities to kind of what I described, what might be happening at ah at a local government level, where again, we're trying to ensure that climate impacts are incorporated into into the decision-making of state agencies, into existing or or new programs and policies. And so that's what we've been that's that's what we've been focused on. and what After we released the statewide resign strategy, we definitely moved toward figuring out how we go into closer to an implementation
00:23:08
Speaker
shame mark And, you know, we recognized after we put out that plan that we talked about extreme and increasing heat from climate change as ah kind of the cause of climate change, but not necessarily, we didn't necessarily talk about the impacts of heat on the state that much. And so, you know, as we tried to move policy closer to implementation, ah closer to kind of on the ground,
00:23:35
Speaker
uh, agency programs and policies, you know, we decided to develop a resilience action plan specifically around extreme heat. Uh, and so we, we finalized that over about 18 month period, uh, and includes hundreds, I think, uh, actions, specific actions, um, and recommendations of state agencies. And what was interesting about this is these were,
00:24:03
Speaker
the state agencies themselves looking at their policies and programs and their authorities and identifying where there were gaps. And so they self-identified where there was a need and where they could modify or add new policies and programs to start to address the issue. And so that that plan was finalized this past July, amidst, you know, three heat waves in, you know, like ah like a five week period.
Addressing Extreme Heat in NJ's Resilience Plan
00:24:41
Speaker
um And interestingly, you know, we saw a lot of focus on extreme and increasing heat around the country this summer. So intentionally or otherwise, we we ended up in a in a similar place with a lot of other a lot of other states in the federal government.
00:24:59
Speaker
So that's kind of that's the kind of the the primary role of of the chief resilience officer in New Jersey is to really try and to some extent drive and coordinate those agencies um you know consistent with the directive of of the governor. How far along were those resilience action plans towards the impact of heat by the time that these three, five heat waves came in within a short period of time and how did those actions stand up to the test? Because of the amount of time and effort we put into this, we did release kind of a like a preliminary report. And these were things that state agencies were already doing to address you know extreme and increasing heat in the state. And so but we saw that you know they they do have an impact.
00:25:58
Speaker
literally you know down to you know on the ground, but also kind of at the at the higher level of you know state decision making. One one that that seems so small, but I think one that is really a great example of how a state agency can impact people's daily lives is New Jersey Transit is working to redesign all of its bus stops to provide shade and and cooling opportunities. And it seems like such a small thing, but if you've ever stood out in 110 degrees right waiting for for a bus where there's perhaps no shade, right maybe you're in and an urban area and there's no trees, or maybe you're along ah a county road or a state highway where you know there's
00:26:56
Speaker
you know offers to the back to the nearest tree line, that becomes a significant ah issue for people. And so right doing something even at that scale, how do we design every one of our our bus stops to make sure that people are suffering? Because we know that extreme heat has a significant physical and mental impact on on people and, in particular, our most vulnerable populations, right, and our everybody, you know, from those who work outdoors to, you know, those who might be pregnant or those who are on certain medications. So, it is a wide-ranging impact. So, again, those actions identified by the state agencies really try to cover as many aspects as possible
00:27:56
Speaker
in development of of the resilience action plan. As you mentioned, sometimes it's the small actions right that could potentially have a big impact. They're not necessarily overly costly, but they're things that require a little little bit of forethought right and a little bit of ah you know more critical critical thinking before something is is done. right so you know I think that idea of having a chief resilience officer being able to be be more responsible for that big picture and ensuring that you know the climate impacts are you know are thought of as we move through all of these individual actions, I think that points to the need for a chief resilience officer. um And you I think a lot of what you were saying too also just really
00:28:47
Speaker
comes down a lot to communication. um I think sometimes you know my personal experience is that you know when you work in this space, you kind of take it for granted that everybody's thinking about you know the coastal impacts or climate change, sea level rise, those types of things. and Then you realize that you know there are so many different agencies and so many different groups and so many different communities and they all have different priorities.
00:29:09
Speaker
And as Nick mentioned earlier, New Jersey being a coastal state, it all links back you know to that coastal environment and appreciating the impact that we're having in the coastal environment. And you know it's ah you know it does sometimes require that, you know, guiding light, so to speak, um to kind of make sure that everybody's aware and make it a priority and make it a priority. And it's great to see New Jersey within the state making it a priority to try to link all of these things together and make sure that we're
00:29:41
Speaker
making decisions which are consistent because not only is it better for our long-term future, it's also more cost-effective, right? So you don't get one agency doing something that's at odds with what another agency is doing because they're not considering the same sea level rise scenario as ah as an example. So um it's a you know it's it points to, I guess, the importance of ah of the position and and in the the job that Nick does.
00:30:09
Speaker
So one of the things I did want to touch on, um you know just New Jersey DEP just had a wonderful press release about a big opportunity that we received through the ah Climate Resilience Regional Challenge. so It's a $72.5 million dollars project for the state of New Jersey. I think it allows it's going to allow the state to move forward with a lot of the things that Nick has just been speaking about. so and Nick was
00:30:40
Speaker
responsible for putting in the grant proposal, coordinating everything, and so I want to give him a chance to pat himself on the back, talk about what a great job he did and what he's looking forward to being able to do. Yeah, it's something that I'm personally very proud of, but I think also is perhaps transformational for the state.
00:31:09
Speaker
the The quick background, right, is ah through the through federal, one of the federal funding um bills of recent years, NOAA established the Coastal Resilience Regional Challenge. And there was, I think, $575 million dollars available to coastal states and territories.
00:31:36
Speaker
and um You know, we worked the the Department of Environmental Protection, the Coastal Management Program, right? Me as the Chief Resilience Officer and and the Coastal Manager. ah We worked with 15 partners, including John, to put together this program, which we are referring to as building a climate ready NJ. And, you know, while I'm,
00:32:08
Speaker
I appreciate the kind of the the congratulations and the, you know, patting myself on the back. Like this is not possible. This was not going to be possible without, without those 15 partners. Right. And that network of partners has been developed over the, you know, uh, close to 12 years now, uh, after, after hurricane Sandy and.
00:32:35
Speaker
you know, that was that was a ah primary aspect of of the proposal, right? This is a mature network of practitioners, of kind of experts in in the state who have not only kind of just been working together, but formed like a formal network, right, called the New Jersey Coastal Resilience Collaborative. And so we had a very strong foundation with those partners and with the collaborative and with the end 12 years of work that we all have been doing across the state since since Sandy. And so you know the I guess real real briefly the some of the major aspects of of that award are right there's a there's a significant outreach and education and engagement component.
00:33:36
Speaker
which is you know includes any I think almost every one of our partners you know in some in some way or another um there is additional planning work and you know local guidance incorporated into there that we want to develop and we want to extend the resilient NJ program into other areas we want to enhance our our modeling for ah local governments, and people developing projects to utilize that incorporates all aspects of the funding tax rate, both recipient, seal of rise, and surge, and the like. oh There is, I think one of the most significant aspects of it, of the proposal is, or the award now, is the development of a
00:34:27
Speaker
resilience projects pipeline. And so what we've what we've experienced in the past is, even where we've done good planning, the ability for the state or our partners or local governments to move the projects identified in those plans through that design process into implementation, we haven't had the resources to do that.
00:34:50
Speaker
And so working with, um, and JC grant and, know, and Stevens, uh, Institute and university, uh, or Monmouth university, Urban mc coast Institute and Rutgers and others. Right. We're developing a number of, of components that will be able to provide that assistance to communities and state agencies.
00:35:15
Speaker
take those project ideas and move them into that design process. I really think that you know establishing that that pipeline, I think, really has the potential to be transformative in New Jersey. And you know so last but certainly not least is there are multiple implementation, right actual construction projects included in the award. and Again, they range from you know a new riverfront park in a little ferry that will incorporate you know not just public access to to the to the riverfront and recreational opportunities, but will include some restoration of the shoreline as well as resilience measures built into the park and connecting it back into the community. ah We're doing significant amount of marsh restoration, coastal marsh restoration up in the Meadowlands region of the state, which will
00:36:12
Speaker
you know And, uh, aside from adding kind of the, the habitat value, um, and the the natural benefits will also provide some level of resilience to, uh, the infrastructure up there, right. Which has state regional and and national of course. And John to, I think one of your points you just made previously, right. We are also implementing a number of neighborhood scale.
00:36:42
Speaker
stormwater green infrastructure projects in Newark, Patterson, Perth Amboy.
Stormwater Projects in Urban Areas
00:36:49
Speaker
So these are three of our particularly over urbanized areas of the state. um right And they are all also combined sewer overflow, CSO communities. right So during significant precipitation events where the stormwater system can't handle the amount of flow that it's seeing, right it ends up mixing with sewage and often being discharged into our water bodies and unfortunately sometimes into into the community. And so they're also experiencing significant heat island impacts. right These are very dense urbanized areas. And so these thisreas small green infrastructure projects, um you know we're talking about, I think,
00:37:40
Speaker
around 20 in each of those cities ah will have a significant impact on on those issues as well as, let's be honest, right adding some neighborhood greening and beautification. So again, to John, to kind of one of your earlier points, earlier points, we don't have to build billion dollar flood infrastructure to have a significant impact oh in our community. right We can do these small scale projects Um, we can do, we can do marshes, marsh restoration, and we can do living shorelines. We can, uh, you know, incorporate resilience into our existing infrastructure, whether it be parks or, or wastewater, uh, systems. Right. And so that's, that's really kind of the focus of ah the, the, uh, building a climate ready NJ award is to try and embed.
00:38:37
Speaker
resilience into all aspects ah throughout all levels of government in this state to move our communities cluster closer to you know a resilient NJ.
Importance of Partnerships in Resilience
00:38:50
Speaker
One of the things that you just said that I think is really, really important is that foundation that that that you mentioned, right? This is something that the the exist the partnership existed. You mentioned the New Jersey Coastal Resilience Collaborative. Having that infrastructure in place, you know I think was critical to you know being able to pursue something like this. And I think those partnerships that you mentioned are beneficial regardless of whether or not you get a federal funding, something like this. I mean, it's great that we got it, um but by the same token, if we didn't get it, that partnership allows us to do a bunch of other things. so you know And that partnership is something that has been developed over years and took a lot of time and effort from a lot of people, a lot of people volunteering their time, honestly, to be, because it's an important issue, right?
00:39:42
Speaker
And you never are certain that the money will flow or the opportunities will come. And you know having, you know from the academic side, you're so used to submitting proposals and it's a great proposal and it never gets funded. Doesn't mean that you can get to stop submitting proposals, right? Doesn't mean that the effort putting the proposal together was wasted, right? Because it brings you together, it brings the ideas together. um And I think that's been the kind of the great thing about being involved in that whole process is that that foundational partnership um you know, you know, has allowed a lot of things to happen. And it's great to see it come to fruition through this, this grant, because we'll be able to do a lot of great things. But, you know, it's, it's, a it's, I think it's bigger and more broader than that. I agree that that ah network, you know, the collaborative has and just everything and and what it represents, right, the coordination of all these um practitioners across the state has really been important.
00:40:40
Speaker
to climate and coastal resilience in the state, right, aside from aside from this award. And ah kind of the the coordination amongst entities that you know might not have happened otherwise, or even knowing things that were happening that might have happened otherwise, I think has you know really set or helped set a strong foundation for for resilience in New Jersey, right, whether that's you know, bringing kind of the technical expertise, John's technical expertise, um you know, to to the Department of Environmental Protection and guidance for, you know, living shorelines and, you know, kind of or our urban waterfronts, right, to kind of how we develop guidance for municipalities, you know, through, you know, the TCNJ Sustainable Jersey Program,
00:41:39
Speaker
you know, to how we do outreach and education through platforms such as MyCoast.org.
00:41:51
Speaker
like station ja check it out um and how we recognize kind of the the impacts of climate change that we see every day, but also get but kind of our our or citizen scientists, if you will, kind of on board and and part of that conversation. None of that happens if we're not coordinating across that collaborative. So this has been and amazing conversation. I have about a dozen more questions for you, but only so much more time. If I could help to kind of summarize and kind of point this towards other coastal states. So you guys are biased, you guys are New Jersey. I'm looking on the outside, on the outside looking in and it seems like
00:42:42
Speaker
since the onset of Sandy. And even before then, this buyout program, this Blue Acres program down in 1995, that's one of the questions I would like to ask is towards that. But with this buyout program that has has been in existence with the advent of Sandy in 2012, New Jersey seems like it's on the forefront of rolling out these strategic, intentional, thought out climate resilience projects from every level to from a bus stop to entire infrastructure to these riverfront projects. And from what I'm hearing is the success of that comes from one investment in a climate resilience officer yourself in the entire structure of this
00:43:36
Speaker
or our chief resilience officer, sorry, and the this climate resilience office itself, in addition to coordination and participation from state agencies, local municipalities, citizen scientists, as you mentioned, so the community is well involved, well engaged. And I'm just wondering, how does this structure compared to other coastal states, whether in a similar geographic region like the North Atlantic versus, you know, Florida also is is a big coastal state. And yet where there, I just feel like we're not seeing the same level of engagement, response and action that I'm hearing that's coming out of New Jersey. So I'm wondering what advice or like, what would you recommend or how can other coastal states
00:44:30
Speaker
get to this level that you guys are at now in New Jersey and succeeding in this climate resiliency. So as as the coastal manager, I have the opportunity to meet regularly with the other coastal states and territories.
Comparing NJ with Other Coastal States
00:44:48
Speaker
And so I think where New Jersey is doing a lot, so are the other states. And you know I think you know we might not Certainly, I don't hear about it right in New Jersey, kind of what they're doing in, say, North Carolina. um But in many ways, some of those other states, and states that honestly might surprise you based on kind of some of the politics, you know are ahead of us.
00:45:21
Speaker
you know we're I think in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic, there is a lot of great work going on around this topic. um And I think we have had the opportunity in New Jersey in particular to build on the post-disaster recovery to really, you know, again, to kind of build that collaborative and set the strong foundation. But you also see in other states
00:45:59
Speaker
you know, particularly those who have to deal with, you know, regular hurricanes or, you know, out West, you know, massive forest fires, um, that, you know, in some senses they're, they're ahead of us, you know, you know, in, you mentioned Florida, right? So in, you know, one sense, they're literally removing the words climate change from their,
00:46:26
Speaker
from their laws, but they also invest hundreds of millions of dollars into climate resilience and disaster preparation, you know, and not just kind of building hard infrastructure, right? And, you know, you know talking about natural and nature-based features. So I have to, we have to give some level level of credit in New Jersey to kind of just Just the, uh, kind of those partners that we've been talking about kind of really recognizing that this was an issue and starting to work together. Um, but at the same time, we also have been lucky enough over the last six plus years to have a ah governor who prioritized this issue, right? The chief resilience officer and interagency council on climate resilience, um, were established by.
00:47:22
Speaker
an executive order and, you know, the the support within the Department of Environmental Protection to continue to build out those programs and provide the support and resources to the to those programs that we've talked about, right, has really been critical, certainly at the state government level, to to this success and, you know, allowing you know, state government and New Jersey government to lead and give us the resources to, you know, to some extent convene, you know, and, you know, work with all of those partners, you know, that has resulted in, for example, that, that award from the $73 million dollars award.
Adapting Ideas from Other States
00:48:07
Speaker
So, you know, again, New Jersey, I do think is at some level a leader in this space.
00:48:15
Speaker
um But i'm always I'm always impressed and surprised by some of the other work that's going on around the country. And I love and love those meetings when I get to talk to the other states, because I'm always stealing stealing their ideas and trying to you know kind of put a ah Jersey spin on them. And you know and we've done that a number of times. so you know I think there's, there's always things that we can learn from those other States and and vice versa. Right. And so, um, you know, we'll continue to kind of build on, on the foundations we've got here in and New Jersey, uh, continue to steal great ideas from others and, um, you know, build out, you know, a more, uh, more resilient, more resilient status as we move forward.
00:49:11
Speaker
Sounds like you're optimistic on the ah New Jersey's future. Well, I mean, again, we have a great foundation, right? And regardless regardless of there is a strong commitment from New Jersey state government, and I think there will continue to be, but regardless of whether there is, you know, because we have this strong foundation of practitioners and NGOs and academic partners, and because Right? It doesn't matter whether you're a a red town or a blue town or kind of what what the politics are, right? You're still flooding. It's still getting hotter. You're still seeing those impacts and, you know, the the ah community recognizes that and wants to see action taken.
00:50:05
Speaker
yeah I think that's a good point. like you as as you Going back to what you said initially, right the the coast connects us all in New Jersey. so You can't escape it. It doesn't matter where you live, whether you're directly on the coast, whether you're inland, right it all impacts what's going on. so that kind of i'm I'm sure it makes it a lot easier. so I would agree with you. I think the future is a lot brighter now, certainly than 25 years ago when I started in the state working on these issues. um As we move forward, ah you know again, we have a great foundation. um Are there maybe one or two things that, you know for your sort of ideal future, what the state looks like? what are there
00:50:44
Speaker
some things that you know you would like to see happen you know in the next five or 10 years and in terms of setting us up for success in the future when it comes to to coastal resilience.
Need for Resilience Funding and Workforce Development
00:50:55
Speaker
you know one of the One of the things, kind of Marissa, that I noted was you know some of the other states are doing that New Jersey is not, is they have dedicated funding for resilience throughout the state. And New Jersey,
00:51:14
Speaker
I don't want to say, I don't want to say lucky, but New Jersey has most of the funding for resilience activities in the state have come from Sandy, the Sandy and Ida disasters, right? The federal funding. And so, but we're quickly approaching that point. Well, we're, we're at that point where, you know, the, the recognition I think is that there, there is insufficient funding.
00:51:44
Speaker
simply from those disasters to do everything we need to do. And that there needs to be some investment by the state to continue the efforts you know that we've and we've all started and worked on over those last 12 years. So to me, that's the number one thing, right? We're all at capacity. We're all um constantly looking for those additional resources. And you know New Jersey's 564 individual municipalities and 21 counties certainly don't have be the resources and expertise to do the things that that they need to do. I think the other thing that ah the conversation
00:52:38
Speaker
has started happening is it really around workforce development um and around these around these issues. And so you a lot of a lot of workforce development around climate is still very much focused on kind of the greenhouse gas mitigation and clean energy aspects, but you know we've had kind of multiple initiatives and conversations and know I've seen some things move forward where resilience and and all that that entails is being included in in workforce development programs. You know and again the the building a climate ready NJ program right specifically includes some workforce development ah projects and tasks and actions in there right whether it's
00:53:36
Speaker
you know working with students and bringing them directly into kind of the design and construction and post construction monitoring of some of those projects. Right. Whether it's we're also working with the Watson Institute at Kean University to kind of turn what the students are experiencing working with those projects into an entrepreneurial program.
00:54:01
Speaker
to help them kind of build out what they are interested in in pursuing. So I think that's another that's another really significant piece that, again, those conversations are really just starting in New Jersey. There's really just recognition now that you know we need to put some level of focus on that um workforce development around climate resilience and green green infrastructure in natural and nature-based ah projects. I think i think we're we're on the cusp of really making a significant movement there.
00:54:40
Speaker
As Marissa said, I think we could talk to you all day, but we definitely want to be respectful of your time.
Embracing Opportunities in Coastal Jobs
00:54:44
Speaker
um Typically we ask advice for young professionals that want to get into this space. It sounds like you just spoke about a lot of the professional development programs, which are needed and hopefully specifically through some of the recent funding, you know, will be forthcoming. So certainly taking advantage of those opportunities as a way to get more involved and in this space. But is there any other advice that you'd like to share? You know, I, when I was doing my,
00:55:10
Speaker
Right. My, my short bio at the beginning, right. I mentioned that I, I spent time doing wastewater management and that, you know, not, not a sexy, not a sexy topic. Um, right. But as I said, right, it, it gave me, it was, it was huge for my understanding of kind of how new Jersey worked, you know, again, literally literally and figuratively. Um, and.
00:55:39
Speaker
I guess my my point there is right. Take advantage of, of those opportunities um and try to bring kind of your time of resilience or your coastal management perspective to those there was opportunities or those jobs that might not obviously seem like a climate or a coastal career. you know take Take the opportunities and kind of again, as I am repeating myself now, right look every job is a climate job. Every job in New Jersey is a coastal job. And kind of I think coming at it from that perspective, whatever your degree background is, whatever your job is, bringing
00:56:32
Speaker
bringing those perspectives into into your work, I think is is the only way you know we're all going to you make a dent in the issue. I think that's i think that's great advice. i think you know I think it requires a lot of what you've said comes back to communication, coordination, education, understanding, recognizing you know how we're all connected to the coast in one way, shape, or form. And decisions made honestly in the middle of the country impact what happens along the coast, right? And that all impacts the economy, which is you know all connected, obviously. so
00:57:13
Speaker
um It's been great talking to you today, Nick. Thank you for being a guest on the Going Coastal podcast. It's always a pleasure to talk to someone such as yourself. um Thank you so much, Nick. This has been a great conversation. I really appreciate it. And I just want to confirm, you kind of squeezed in that link there. Was it mycoast.org slash NJ is where we can find more information.
00:57:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's ah it's a great platform that we use to allow people to post photos of kind of both like flooding, but also kind of like their favorite places on the coast. And it helps kind of it's it helps communicate ah the issue and also helps us understand kind of the issues going on around around the coast. Awesome. Thanks.
00:58:05
Speaker
So we would like to thank New Jersey Sea Grant for sponsoring today's podcast. um I want to send out a reminder that registration is open for the Restore America's Coastline Estuaries Summit, which is going to be held in Arlington, Virginia, October 6th through 10th. I personally will be attending and participating in a panel, learning from, call it, less than completely successful living shorelines projects or failures, depending on how you look at it. If you're there and you're in a listener, I would love to talk to you. So come by, say hello. I'd love to meet you in person.
00:58:41
Speaker
If you're listening and you have an idea for a future topic or if you're interested potentially in sponsoring a future episode of the Going Coastal podcast, please contact us. We have an email, podcastgoingcoastalatgmail.com. We want to be as responsive as we can to our listeners. So again, thank you for for listening this week