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7 - Career Navigation with Dr. Julie Dean Rosati and Dr. Jane McKee Smith
12 Plays1 year ago
In Episode 7 of Going Coastal, hosts Marissa Torres and Deb Fernandes are joined by two trailblazing women in coastal engineering, Dr. Julie Dean Rosati and Dr. Jane McKee Smith. Julie, Technical Director for Civil Works Research & Development with the US Army Corps of Engineers, and Jane, Research Professor at the University of Florida and Emeritus Senior Scientist, share their career journeys, advice on mentorship, insights on achieving a balance between work and family life and the challenges they’ve overcome along the way. Whether you’re an aspiring coastal engineer or seeking inspiration to achieve your goals, this episode is for you!
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Welcome
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello, hello. Welcome back to the Going Coastal podcast, the podcast of the students and new professionals hosted by John Miller, Marissa Torres, and Deb Fernandez. I'm one of your co-hosts, Marissa Torres. And I'm also one of your co-hosts, Deb Fernandez. And today,
Introduction of Guests: Dr. Julie Dean Rosati and Dr. Jane McKee Smith
00:00:27
Speaker
Deb and I are joined by two incredibly successful women in coastal engineering, Dr. Julie Dean Rosati and Dr. Jane McKee Smith.
00:00:37
Speaker
Presently, Julie is the Technical Director for Civil Works Research and Development for the Army Corps Engineer Research and Development Center, or ERDC, as well as the Technical Director for Flood Risk Management at the Coastal Hydraulics Lab, or CHL. And Jane herself is a research professor at the University of Florida right now, as well as an emeritus senior scientist at ERDC CHL.
Podcast Format and Guest Backgrounds
00:01:03
Speaker
So welcome, Julie and Jane, to Going Coastal.
00:01:07
Speaker
Thanks. We're so glad to be here. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. Um, so actually before we get started, Jane, word on the street is that this isn't your first podcast. That's true. I have done another podcast before. How exciting. Which one? I can't remember the name of it. but Julie, is this your first podcast? Yes. This is my very first podcast.
00:01:33
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I feel so special. Do we get cake or something? Can we send stars or like, I don't know. Coast to coast. I have been on the coast to coast podcast from Australia. From Australia. Oh my goodness. That's exciting.
00:01:52
Speaker
Well, welcome to this national, ah hopefully national, I think we might have some international listeners. So we do. I know we've had some international guests, so that's
Jane McKee Smith's Journey into Coastal Engineering
00:02:05
Speaker
exciting. um And yeah, we're so excited to have you here.
00:02:09
Speaker
um So, how we usually start these shows is kind of getting to know about you and then towards your academic and professional journey. However, for this professional development episode, the entire focus of the episode is about you guys um as people and as professionals. So, we'll start with kind of where you're from, where'd you go to school, and how'd you get involved in the coastal field.
00:02:36
Speaker
So Jane, go ahead, take it first. Thanks, Marissa. I'm on a Midwesterner. I was born in Minneapolis, grew up mostly in Minnesota, South Dakota, but I also lived five years in Houston, Texas. And so I enjoyed visiting the beach in Galveston. My undergraduate was South Dakota State University in Brookings, South Dakota. My master's was done while I was working at ERDC from Mississippi State. And then the Corps of Engineers has a great program to send people back for their PhD. And I went to University of Delaware.
00:03:08
Speaker
at a time when there were some great folks there, Ibs Benson, Jim Kirby, Tony Dalrymple, Nobu Kobayashi, so great program there. So you kind of got involved in Coastal, like right from the get-go, or how'd that happen? Oh no, oh no. So my undergrad at South Dakota State, obviously they didn't have Coastal engineering.
00:03:29
Speaker
was in civil engineering. And I had a professor that got me really excited about fluvial hydraulics. So when I graduated, it was a bit of a recession. So I had actually a job at the Corps of Engineers Omaha District. But I had also sent my resume down to ERDC. And at that time, the Coastal Lab, which was called SERC at the time, Coastal Engineering Research Center, was looking for folks. And the director called me up and offered me a job in coastal engineering. And I said,
00:03:59
Speaker
No, I don't know anything about coastal engineering, but he was very persistent. This was Robert Whalen. And he kept after me and finally i said, well, that sounds interesting. But then my mom said, you're not going to Mississippi. You're not going to accept a job without going down there and looking at it first. So we were just talking about skiing. My boyfriend at the time, my now husband, lived in Denver. So we went skiing. This is the middle of May. Put the skis in the car, drove to Mississippi.
00:04:29
Speaker
and You can just imagine getting out of the car in the middle of May and Mississippi with skis. You got some funny looks. Anyway, we went to Vicksburg, ah toured the lab, met people, and were really excited about it. so he My boyfriend at the time, we both accepted jobs down there. and so I knew nothing about coastal engineering when I started.
Julie Dean Rosati's Path in Coastal Engineering
00:04:49
Speaker
um but learned it all on the job. Wow, that's really impressive. I mean, that's to me, of all the guests we've here, and from since I started this podcast, it's kind of unheard of. I was just like, didn't know anything about Coastal, just took a job in it. And you have this brilliant career now behind you. It is, wow, really impressive and inspiring too.
00:05:13
Speaker
Well, there are some good coastal engineers from the center of the country, but certainly we learn our passion for coastal engineering on the job. Yeah, you don't need to live by the sea to be a coastal engineer. I love that. That's true. Julie, how about you? what were Where are you from? Where'd you go to school and how'd you get involved in the coastal field? Yeah, so I was born in California.
00:05:37
Speaker
And I love the California beaches, but I didn't live there too long. I was about four years old and my folks moved. um So I grew up then in Florida and then went to high school in Delaware, Newark High School. and My dad was a professor in coastal engineering and he's really the one who got me started in the love of coastal engineering.
00:06:01
Speaker
um I went to college at Northwestern in Evanston, Illinois. um I really was very interested in um transportation, um city planning, and structural engineering. I was in a civil department, so my undergrad was in civil. And um so that's what I was studying, and Chicago area is a real big structural engineering center of expertise. But my dad saw that there was an opportunity for me to have a work study program with the Corps of Engineers and earn some money to support my intuition.
00:06:39
Speaker
At the time, Northwestern tuition was it expensive and um this was the way to get the government to help support my training and also give me an opportunity to, you know, get my feet under me and see what work like work life was like. And so I started a co-operative program or an internship work study program.
00:07:00
Speaker
And I took five years to get my undergrad with work. We were on the quarter system at Northwestern. So I'd work one or two quarters at the core and then go back to school the other part. And that was really great because we got to see what work was like. And I started out at the Chesapeake Bay model in Kent Island, Maryland. And then I moved to the old Coastal Engineering Research Center, which is at Fort Belvoir, Virginia. um And then CERC moved down to Mississippi, and that's when Jane also started there. So I was there before CERC actually got moved there. about I was maybe ah overlapped about three months. I was there in April of, I think it was 1984, and then CERC formally moved, I think, in July or something like that.
00:07:51
Speaker
um So um that was where I did my the ending part of my co-op, my internship. and um And then I was offered a full-time job. and um And I continued on, as Jane mentioned, the Corps has a lot of opportunities for advanced training and that they supported me in my master's degree with Mississippi State through the West Waterways Experimentation Graduate and Institute program. And then they sent me a long-term training to Louisiana State University.
00:08:23
Speaker
and Baton Rouge. So it was a real opportunity within the federal government to advance your degree. So similar to Jane, I had no real background formal training in Coastal. It was more in the civil field, um but I kind of loathed on the job. This is kind of funny that Julie and I have known each other over 40 years.
00:08:43
Speaker
And I never knew she started out looking at structures and civil engineering. That's where I started out too. But I found structures to be way too cookbook. And when we got to water and hydraulics and sediment movement, it was much more challenging and interesting. So I think that's kind of funny. And I'll also say Julie's dad has inspired a lot of coastal engineers. Dr. Dean is the classic coastal engineer in the US. And so he's inspired a lot of people besides Julie.
Teamwork and Multidisciplinary Approaches
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to mention, I'm like, Julie's dad, for those who may not know, is Robert Dean of Dean and Dalrymple for our Water Wave Mechanics Bible. So I could see how that could easily influence your decision if he's doing some cool stuff.
00:09:29
Speaker
wanting to do some cool stuff as well. I also love how both of you guys got your master's and PhD through ERDC. That's pretty sweet. um you know I came into ERDC with my master's and I'm debating getting a PhD. It's just you know whether or not at this point I need it or want it. ah so it's ah I'm on the fence, but aha that sounds like a different professional development episode I feel like.
00:09:58
Speaker
So I would certainly encourage you to do it. It's a great challenge and it's a great program. You can always learn more. It was one of the best years to go on long-term training and just immerse yourself in in learning. Really, really great. i I was older when I went. I was in my 40s. So I had two kids, 10 and 12 at the time that went with me. So that was challenging too, but ah gosh, what a great year.
00:10:27
Speaker
really, really one of the highlights of my career was being able to do that. And I'm sure Jane would say the same, just such a great opportunity to really focus on learning and um just getting answers to questions that you have with but these leaders at the university. Yeah, not only the professors, which I already mentioned at University of Delaware, but the other students. It's a real camaraderie with a group and it's a lot of fun.
00:10:55
Speaker
All right, something to take into consideration. I'll think about it. That actually leads us perfectly into kind of understanding how essentially your your career roadmap, you know, tell us and about the different roles that you've had. Both of you have had extended long careers within ERDC or within USACE as an entity and being able to go out for long-term training to get further education, but also having the opportunity to try on different roles as well. So I was wondering if you'd be able to tell us kind of the the different roles that you've held during your career.
00:11:33
Speaker
ah from from early, mid, and and in your late career. and We'll have Julie go first this time. Thanks Marissa. As I alluded to, I you know started out as an intern and in that role, I was really just soaking up everything I could. I was writing computer codes um at the very beginning on a handheld ah little calculator type thing.
00:12:02
Speaker
Kind of embarrassing now, but you know that's how far technology has come since since that day. um And then um i I grew and and was mentored by other leaders at the Coastal Engineering Research Center at the time, now the Coastal Metrolics Lab, and gotugh got offered more and more responsibility. So I started managing my own little research projects and then a work unit and then a program.
00:12:29
Speaker
um And at that time, that was about the time that I realized I i managed multiple programs at different times and multiple teams. And I realized I really wanted to get back into the research. And that's when I ah started thinking about going on long-term training and getting back into the research world. I i missed that um and i i was I was more into the management realm and I wanted to get back into research. So that helped me get back into research um However, once I kind of got my PhD done, I then transitioned back into more management and became a technical director. so That's kind of the evolution I think that happens to a lot of us ands in some ways or another. um so I've had a lot of roles from just the very entry level all the way up to working with teams and having
00:13:25
Speaker
ah mentors, and then mentoring myself with those team members. And I think some of my best memories and and best times that I've had in that, that whole gamut are when we worked really closely with teams on those research projects. ah Jane and I, early in our careers, we were doing some field work at the East East Field Research Facility in Duck, North Carolina. And those were really fun times to be there on the beach, making some field measurements for days and weeks at a time. Those are some of my best memories.
Mentorship and Peer Support in Engineering
00:14:00
Speaker
And then later on, just numerical modeling and working really closely with teams, tight-knit teams where we learn from each other and we're delivering something that there's a problem in the field or some
00:14:14
Speaker
so thing that we're trying to understand better through the research. And that was really fun as well too to work with those teams and work really closely so that we're tag teaming off each other to learn and understand the problems better. So recently we've had this really big push or need now for intentional multidisciplinary or transdisciplinary teams now that we're working across, say,
00:14:41
Speaker
natural nature-based features, engineers and ecologists need to talk to each other, economists are on the table, sociologists are on the table. um All of these things, were I feel like we're being more focused on making sure that those teams exist. I'm wondering the kind of that multidisciplinary flavor where you had a few folks um and in different fields ah working together, or was this kind of like a ah core group of coastal engineers and scientists trying to try to solve this one problem?
00:15:12
Speaker
and Back at that time, we were pretty narrowly okay Maybe we had a mathematician on our team and a computer scientist and a coastal engineer. So that was about the extent of our our teams at the time. I think Marissa, you're exactly right. The teams that we need now are ah much broader and multidisciplinary. um So that's how how much the field I think has changed in that time. It's really dramatic how it's grown in the breadth of that growth as well.
00:15:44
Speaker
so Yeah, so ah Jane, how about the types of roles that you've had? So my progression was pretty similar to Julie's. You know, as I mentioned before, I started out as just a newbie without knowing much of anything um and then progressed to being a PI of my own projects, a technical lead in a program.
00:16:05
Speaker
You know, I stayed as much as I could on the technical side, but eventually getting to the level of a senior research scientist, it became more about motivating folks and pulling teams together, not so much the administrative side. So it's very exciting to bring a team together and work with them, but it's also hard not to just just want to jump in and do it all yourself, right? So, you know, that can be a little bit challenging.
00:16:31
Speaker
Uh, but Julie's right. Some of the team experiences we have are great. And even though I'm mostly a numerical modeler to work in the field and to work in the laboratory really widened my understanding of the processes and working on those teams when you work in the field and you've got 20 people out there working together, all the ideas and the energy that goes along with that is, it's really inspiring.
00:16:56
Speaker
Now, I might remember some things different than Julie, but there's also very stressful times when I was running the electromagnetic current meters and things weren't working and we were having grounding problems and, um you know, some pretty stressful times in the field. But on the other hand, you think back of it and it really was rewarding to work in the field like that, pulling in new data sets and then working with the team and and making some new discoveries. It was really a lot of fun.
00:17:22
Speaker
So you were a mentor, but before that, did you have anyone that was your mentor, like ah a role model that could help you through your career as a young woman in STEM? Let's bring it to the woman. Absolutely. And the irony of it is when Julie and I started, they were very few senior women. And so my mentors were all men.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I really am thankful to them because they didn't you know shy back at all with working with women and they were very encouraging and helpful. So initially I had maybe mentors kind of assigned to me on individual projects, but as I worked longer and longer, you know I worked with a lot of senior folks and got mentorship from a lot of different directions and that was really inspiring.
00:18:12
Speaker
Mentorship is so important. I think that's really how we grow in our careers. Yes, totally agree. And I love that now you can be um the person that we look up to, like both of you regarding your careers. Basically, you're like, you were pioneers in this. You're very kind to say that. I think you were with many others, obviously, but yeah. With mentorship,
00:18:41
Speaker
Even if you're a fairly junior person, there's always folks you can mentor. And that experience of mentoring somebody else helps you grow. And so you should always be mentoring and you should always seek out new mentors. And I always recommend that people find more than one mentors. Not everybody has the same strengths. So you can learn a lot by working with different people. And Julie, I'll tell a story on us. When we were young career women,
00:19:08
Speaker
There were a group of us, Julie and I and Mary Stallone, that would get together, I don't know, was it every week or once a month? And we kind of set goals and challenge each other. And so we kind of mentored across with folks at the same level as us. What kind of goals and challenges would you set for yourself? Like what kind of mindset were you in? What was it that you were trying to accomplish in your day to day, week to week, month to month? So I would say it was largely short term. You know, I want to get this journal paper written.
00:19:38
Speaker
You know, I want to complete this. I want to you know learn some new skill. We weren't thinking about 20 years from now, we want to be running the lab or something like that. They were really pretty short term, very focused goals. I probably still have the notebook somewhere with all of our goals written up. What do you think, Julie?
00:19:58
Speaker
Yeah, and and there were other things too. we We did some extracurricular things with women in the lab. um Jane, do you remember the Million Dollar Investment Club where we with we'd look at the stock market and everybody put in, I don't know, $10 or something and we tried to analyze the best investments. That was really fun. It was an evening kind of activity within the lab and it we didn't continue that.
00:20:24
Speaker
um Also, ah more on a professional level, we worked on professional standards for authorship. How do you know when someone you know deserves to be an author? um That was something we worked on. And i I still draw a little bit from that knowledge, although I can't put my hands on those papers or anything, the documents that we created. But those were really fun. We did take a lot of career building classes like how to, you know, time management and tracking projects and things like that. Those were really good team building as well. Cause then we could, as Jean said, we could kind of ask each other and both each other accountable for those different things. And Julie, do you remember we organized a lab wide set of presentations on how to sharpen your skills? And that was back so long ago. I learned how to use PowerPoint when we were doing that.
00:21:21
Speaker
We also um had a lunchtime group. We start we would start going to different journal papers and we'd each take a turn and um have to present that journal paper at lunch. um And then we'd talk through it. And that was that was really good. it was That was a big lift though, because you had to spend some time really digging into the journal paper and be ready to present it to your peers.
00:21:48
Speaker
I don't think we continued that too long because it was a big lift, and it was hard to find the time to to get into that level of detail so you're ready to present to to your peers. And it wasn't your paper, so it was somebody else's paper that just came out that you opened and answered questions about, but really good opportunity to build the level of understanding in the lab. But that was great in that it also helped teach us to review papers.
00:22:16
Speaker
with other folks in the group critiquing how we did the critique. So you're basically telling us you taught yourself everything. Like most of the things, like all these scales, you were just like, oh, let's have a lunch where we just, what could we do? Let's read the paper. And like, as if I was the writer and just explain it to everyone. I think that's brilliant. Never heard anything like that before. But I think the key is if you see something that you need to do, just do it. Find a way to to learn how to do it.
Importance of Mentorship and Effective Practices
00:22:43
Speaker
So it was a fun time. I love that. Yeah. 100%.
00:22:46
Speaker
Right? I love this little group actually holding yourselves accountable um and challenging yourself within a group feels safer than trying to challenge yourself outside. What I'm hearing a lot of too is setting the short term goals is I want to do this one thing better or I want to finish this or I want to learn how to do this. It's just these little things that setting these small attainable goals just for yourself just because you want to actually fuels your progression in your position, in your role, and in your career, I feel like. What did you want to be when you grew up? And did you ever think that you guys would be at the level that you're at today, back then? you know It's just kind of
00:23:37
Speaker
The little things add up and you were there for each other and challenged each other to be better at the little things over time. And it just kind of grew. I wanted to say one other thing about mentoring. A lot of times we think of mentors as somebody senior to us, whether they're older or at a higher level in their career. But I find these days taking mentorship from younger folks as well. um Maybe that's because ah there's nobody older than me anymore, but um I think it's because
00:24:14
Speaker
I'm seeing that that for everybody can teach me something and I think that's a good lesson for everybody just to keep your eyes open and look for those nuggets um in your day when you work with other people about a best practice. um Maybe it's just a kind way to to give someone some constructive criticism. I'm learning that
Building Multidisciplinary Teams and Communication
00:24:35
Speaker
a lot.
00:24:36
Speaker
um and maybe better ways to run a meeting. um some Some things I'm learning too is sometimes we have some difficult conversations that we need to have as a group, but maybe it's a good idea to have a pre-meeting and prep everybody on how best to go through that conversation. um Back in the day when Jane and I first started in the first decade of us working, I wouldn't have thought about that, about having a pre-meeting to kind of think through the best way to go to a discussion. But it's things like that I think that I'm becoming more and more aware of and kind of noting in my and my head as a best practice. And I think so I guess what I'm getting at is you can learn and be mentored by a number of people all at different levels all throughout your career. I really agree with what Julie's saying. There's so much that we can learn from each other
00:25:30
Speaker
And that's part of the reason that teams are so important in all this interdisciplinary work. um When we brought a team together that included field people and numerical modelers and technicians, we thought that was interdisciplinary. And now we see these bigger teams with biologists and ecologists and ah social scientists, and we learn so much from them. It takes a while for those teams to gel and to learn from each other.
00:25:53
Speaker
And so how you communicate is really important. And that's kind of what Julie was talking about. I've seen a National Science Foundation program take a year for people just to be able to talk to each other. And so we need to learn from that and build on that. And in the end, our projects are going to be so much better. Our research is going to be so much better.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think it comes back to um what we were saying, I think it was on our previous podcast about communication. It is a key element in science, especially in science for us to be able to like communicate with each other. And I had a question from like everything that you've learned, all this self thought, little sessions, and also the career building classes you were talking about, Julie, what is a takeaway point from all of this or like something that really, really helps you to achieve your goal or be where you're at right now? I think i think what Deb is trying to say is what is the – and i don't I don't think there is any one thing that helps make a career successful, but there are resources
00:27:00
Speaker
maybe tools, methods, classes, other opportunities, especially mentoring and learning from those around you that you can do to help foster a a positive work environment, not only for yourself, but for your team, and help you propel your career in the direction that you'd want it to go in.
Career Growth, Networking, and Continuous Learning
00:27:24
Speaker
I feel like I answered for them, but...
00:27:29
Speaker
Sorry, Deb. I feel like a Friday in my head. It's fine. Right? this whole This whole podcast right now feels like a Friday afternoon, I guess. Yes. Miss Happy Hour, though. but Marissa, i think when I think about what made my career successful,
00:27:46
Speaker
I would say three things. One thing I would say is just a curiosity and, you know, jumping in and trying different things and, you know, going after things that interest me because it made it rewarding for me, you know, and and working on hard problems, working with good teams. Mentoring was absolutely critical. If I hadn't had good mentors, I wouldn't have found those opportunities.
00:28:11
Speaker
And then the third thing would be networking. And I think that gets into kind of your professional network, you know working with professional societies, reaching out to other people. I mean, it's kind of scary to to call somebody a senior person and ask them a question, but but those kinds of networking opportunities are super important. Conferences, you know meetings, all these kinds of things. So you know finding the things that interest you, having good mentors,
00:28:39
Speaker
and and then the networking are the three things I think are most important. There we go. Thank you for that answer. I need Julie. Yeah. um hey a I was thinking as you were asking the question about a couple of things. One is just that curiosity that that Jane mentioned, keeping that curiosity and not being afraid to ask questions, I think is a real key to being successful.
00:29:05
Speaker
The other thing that was going through my mind i was a course that Jane and I and others took um from Stephen Covey, The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People. And you know you know what? I don't know that people even know about that anymore. I remember talking to one of our um interns and they had never heard of it. But I keep coming back to some of those seven habits. um One of them is begin with the end of mind. There are things that we do every day and we don't even think about it, right? If you're writing a scope of work, you think about, well, what is the outcome and how's it going to make a difference in practice? So you're beginning with the end in mind before you write that research project. So there's seven of those kinds of habits. And I think about those a lot.
00:29:51
Speaker
those stuck with me. I bet they stuck with Jane as well. So that was something that I think really helped us in our careers and also our colleagues that that took that training and really lived it and mentored each other in it because those are some of the things we would hold each other accountable.
00:30:09
Speaker
to another one of the seven habits is sharpen the saw. And that means, you know, keeping up um refreshing yourself, giving yourself that time to learn. And maybe it's one day a week, maybe it's one hour a week, but you have some time set aside that you you so you reserve for yourself to read a paper or learn something new. And that's really important too.
00:30:33
Speaker
So that's one thing I come back with um that really helped me, I guess, more structure, um just a healthy attitude towards work and growth in the career.
00:30:46
Speaker
So Julie, the funny thing is we didn't take that class. We led that class. We split it up between a bunch of people and we each took a chapter and we taught the group and we filled up the conference room and you know, people worked together. They went through it together and it was fun. And like I said, I learned how to use PowerPoint when we did that. It was so long ago. Oh my goodness. Did you guys just Are you the reason that we have a leadership development program at ERDC now?
Mentoring and Professional Society Involvement
00:31:16
Speaker
Like you're the ones, you're like, you know what, I want to learn how to do these things. And there's a group of you that wants to learn how to do them and you did them. And now they're part of our optional professional development curriculum. Cause I remember seeing seven habits of highly successful people in, in one of the LDP programs for, uh, at Crowell. So.
00:31:36
Speaker
We did organize a mentoring program at one time too, but it was a CHL thing, not a ERDC thing at the time. So your initial mentoring program at CHL, was that the foundation for the ERDC mentoring program now? Not that I know of, but maybe it contributed a little bit. I don't know. Oh my gosh, you guys. I just want to say thank you.
00:31:57
Speaker
Like just even for those things, you know, those, those are those little things that I think of being more ingrained in our work culture, especially at ERDC and that we try to make sure that I want to say the young folks, but the early career folks are aware of ah to help foster their professional development as well as personal development. So I would say one other thing that I think is really important to your career is to give back.
00:32:22
Speaker
So we take a lot from the folks that mentor us. We take a lot from our professional societies. And it's really important that we get we get back to those societies and those groups as well, accept being an officer in one of those societies, you know help organize things, but you know really getting involved and giving back to the profession, not waiting for somebody to do everything for you. And I think then you have more ownership oh But you also meet so many people and work with so many people. I was really involved in American Society of Civil Engineers and a group called the Coastal Engineering Research Council. And at the time I got involved, it was led by Bob Dean and Tony Dalrymple and Billy Edge and a whole group of real leaders in the field. And I learned so much from them that that was kind of an extra bonus. I volunteered my time, but I got so much back from the experience.
00:33:17
Speaker
That's inspiring. Julie, have you have you done any committees or or extracurriculars in that respect? Yeah, I've been on the ASBPA's board of directors in the past. um I'm not currently on that. um But that was very rewarding. I also serve on the ASCE's Journal of Water Waste, Ports Coastal Ocean Engineering, reviewed you as an associate editor. So that's um really a low investment of time way to keep engaged and see some new papers coming across and
00:33:54
Speaker
get a preview of papers coming out too um for free access and that sort of thing. That's a really rewarding activity as well. I also support the Coastal Sediments Conference Series, and that's really fun. It happens every four years. It's sort of a sister conference to the Coastal Dynamics Conference that is every two years, and then it and then it follows Coastal Sediments. They're following two years, so they kind of go two years and two years. Coastal Dynamics is in 2025 in Portugal.
00:34:31
Speaker
So that's the next one of those coastal sediments will be 2027 coming up and usually coastal sediments is in the US. So those are really fun ways to keep engaged in and give back as well. So if Julie's talking about conferences, I have to talk about the International Conference on Coastal Engineering, which is what the Coastal Engineering Research Council organizes. And that's an every two year conference just got back from the conference in Rome, which was spectacular.
00:35:00
Speaker
And the next one will be in Galveston in two years, May of 2026. And so, you know, conference is a great way to get peer review of your work and see all the other exciting things that are going on in the field. And that's such a super networking opportunity.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I would totally agree with this, especially when you're a young, you're like a young professional or just a student. I feel like these conferences, or at least I can speak for me, help me to get like that mentoring and that ah networking too. um And also it's easier to get to know about new projects when you go to a conference, because you can just hear about like about that project for like 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and you can meet so many people. And yeah, I totally agree. Go to conferences.
00:35:47
Speaker
It's the best. yeah You learn about
Managing Work-Life Balance
00:35:49
Speaker
new models, new measurement techniques. It's just so exciting. Lots of great work going on. So there is a bigger question that I would love to learn from you guys is from your experience. And I know we touched on this previously when Julie was saying that she went for long-term training in her 40s with children, ah both of you. Actually, I don't know if Julie mentioned this. If your partner is also at ERDC, Jane mentioned that hers was.
00:36:17
Speaker
and It's just um kind of in your experience, being a dual-career couple, and especially maybe at the same institution or at separate institutions, kind of at similar or slightly similar part ah places in your career.
00:36:33
Speaker
How have you kind of managed those changes with interpersonal growth with your couple? How has that evolved? um like What worked or didn't work for you and managing personal expectations on spending time with your career versus your family, especially with the both of you um in that position? I was wondering if you can share any kind of insights about how that went for you over the years. Whoever wants to go first.
00:37:01
Speaker
The first, so my husband Ernie was also a coastal engineer. He worked more in the laboratory. I did more numerical modeling. And so, yeah, our careers developed in parallel. We followed a lot of the same tracks. And the real key to it is that partnership and being able to switch off, especially when we had a son, you know, one of us went into work early. The other one went and picked up the son earlier daycare. And so just balancing that when once traveling a lot, you know, the other one has to pick up the slack. So it's really about a partnership and it's not easy, but in the end, you know, in our case that worked out well and we both have great careers at CHL and we've got a great family too. Yes, for me, um I worked part time when the kids were a little lower, which was great. It it was,
00:37:59
Speaker
such a blessing to be able to do that. So I was able to take them to school and pick them up. And that worked out really, really well. And um you can never get those days back when they're little. um you know It's so funny when you're in the midst of it, it seems like it goes forever. You're like, oh my gosh, are they ever going to get out of this age? And then you look back and you're like, gosh, that went by so fast. I'm sure Jane could could relate to that.
00:38:27
Speaker
Now my sons are 32 and 33 and 30 and 30. And they're both married and both successful in everything. So I guess the message for me is that, you know, that time is precious and whatever you need to do to balance the career with that time with your family, you need to do it.
00:38:57
Speaker
And that's one really great thing about the Corps of Engineers and ERDC. They give you that time and they honor that time. I remember recently having, oh, something came up. I think I was with my mom who is still living, she's 91. And our director of ERDC called a meeting and i I was planning to take the day off. And I was like, oh, do I need to call in? you know And I was supposed to be on vacation that day.
00:39:25
Speaker
And my boss saying, no, do not make a change for this call. And that sounds like something really simple and easy. But that happens a lot. um And maybe it's not a phone call, maybe it's a meeting or something like that. But family comes first, and that is really important. And that's been a big lesson and as well. So I think the opportunities are there. is it Like Jane said, it's not easy. And I see young families struggling with this, the two professionals. And there's really no easy answer. It's tough. It's really tough.
00:40:02
Speaker
um I see some of them having help come in, which which does support with the two professionals, but that's not a silver bullet either because that help gets sick and that help quits and then you're left with problems. so it It's a challenge. It really is a problem. and you know being Having an organization that that supports family first is so critical and important because As I said earlier, those those moments are precious and you can never get them back and they make such a difference to your children growing up. I agree with what Julie says. 100% having that support and some flexibility makes a big difference. And I think sometimes we we tend to think our work is so important that I've got to be there with my finger on the pulse every minute of every day. But it's also important to to remember to take time off and to value your family and your friends.
00:40:57
Speaker
You know, not only your children, but your parents. And, you know, having that whole picture, it doesn't mean you can do everything all the time um and life goes on. Your work's still going to be there when you get back. Wise words from someone who's on the verge of burnout and trying to not go over that edge. I guess while with that, have you have either of you experienced burnout through your careers multiple times at all? And like what happened? um How'd you management and come back from that if if at all? I think in my case, I don't think I've ever gotten to the point of being absolutely burnt out. I know during Katrina, we were working all hours
00:41:44
Speaker
trying to support the um Performance Evaluation Task Force, and we worked incredible hours. I would be in conference calls with the Department of Justice at 10, 11 o'clock at night, and we'd be in running things on the computer overnight. you know just But also, it was an experience that we felt like we were doing something very useful and very helpful, um and we had supervisors who understood where we were at and you know gave us a bit of a break. But I think the important thing is just building those breaks in. There'll be times when you're just going 100 miles an hour and you really have to focus for some time period, um but you have to realize you know things will still get done. you know Things will still happen, even if it's a month late maybe, um and understand that
00:42:33
Speaker
you know You aren't the answer to everything. There's other people you can delegate, you can share responsibility. you know we We can't take the whole world on our back. So I don't think I've ever gotten to the point where I've been totally burnt out, but certainly have been through experiences that have been stressful and overwhelming and wearing you out, um but then just to make sure you get time to revitalize after those.
00:42:57
Speaker
Now for me, I i echo what Jean said. i I'm pretty good right now about shutting down at six or seven in the evening and not looking at anything. um but ah I think those down times are so important and I can't sustain around the clock yeah anymore. I think I did that when I was writing my dissertation, not literally around the clock, but really just working full force you know and working weekends and just you know head down and just really working hard.
00:43:28
Speaker
And I've realized like I can't do that anymore. And I think that's part of the maturity is recognizing that you do need that renewal time, whether it's to go out for a walk. um Jane and I go for walks a lot whenever we're together. Just to get that you know that time away from your desk, the daylight, fresh air and that sort of thing, or whether it's just turning turning it off and not looking at it till the weekend is over or whatever. That
Job Satisfaction and Societal Impact of Work
00:43:58
Speaker
is so important to have that, just just shut it down. and And I'll have to say the the leaders that I work with and Jane works with, they're pretty good about respecting that quiet time as well.
00:44:11
Speaker
um I think that's really important. Early in our career, we had mentors that were not as respectful about respecting a quiet time. It was kind of a badge of honor to work on the weekends. and but ah But nowadays, it's very, very clear that weekends are for family and for renewal, and you know you work during the week, during the work hours. It's not only getting a break from work, but it's the other parts of your life, you know that you're getting the exercise you need, that you're getting other mental stimulation, like
00:44:42
Speaker
reading and interacting with friends. It's like you want to have a well-rounded life, and you may not do that every week very well, um but you want to build it into your schedule. um Like Julie said, we love to go out for walks when we're together, and we might start out talking about work, but by the time we're done, we're talking about everything else in our lives, and it's a a really good opportunity to to share that friendship.
00:45:07
Speaker
I think it's really inspiring to hear people that were able to have a balanced personal life and um professional life. And I understand that there were ups and downs, but from what I hear from you both, I feel like it was really successful in the end. And it's really inspiring to to see that you were able to have everything. I think it's important to enjoy your job, your career, because That's such a big part of your life. And if you're not inspired by it, if you're not excited by it, then that's a part of your life that's that's kind of a black hole. So it's really nice to have it as being part of a whole picture. And I have to say right now, we're watching Hurricane Milton headed for Florida. And it really makes you appreciate our profession that helps people prepare for those kinds of emergencies by predicting the floods and
00:45:59
Speaker
you know, the size of the waves and helping to feed the information for evacuation. So
Advice for Young Professionals
00:46:05
Speaker
it really gives me a great deal of pleasure to know that the work that we do really helps other people. It's your give back to the community.
00:46:15
Speaker
what you were saying earlier. Okay, I know that we're kind of coming up at the top of our of our hour here I do, but we do ask all of our guests one last final question, even though this entire podcast episode has been about kind of advice to the early career or next generation of coastal engineers and scientists, but is there any lasting or remaining items of advice that you would impart on a student or young professional who's interested in pursuing a career or position similar to yours?
00:46:51
Speaker
I guess for me it's something we've we've talked about already and that is um don't be afraid to ask questions and take developmental assignments, um learning experiences, opportunities just to grow. Maybe it's just attending a talk in a field you're totally unfamiliar with.
00:47:11
Speaker
um Or maybe it's taking a class that you've never taken that track before. Or maybe it's becoming educated with a different type of formal course yeah yourself and having a dual degree or something like that.
00:47:26
Speaker
because I think that the future is becoming more understanding and encompassing and inclusive of other disciplines. and And as we kind of alluded to before, knowing how to talk to those other disciplines is so important in what we need to do in the future for Coastal Engineering. ah So I think that would be it for me is just to kind of keep your own mind open and and embrace all opportunities to learn more about about the field.
00:47:53
Speaker
So I think my advice would be similar. And again, it's things that we brought up all along. One is to try different things. You don't really know what you're good at or what you're interested in until you try them. So if you're a modeler, go out and work in the lab or the field. If you're a coastal engineer, learn something about ecology. The second thing would be to seek out lots of different mentors with different strengths and then to network broadly.
00:48:18
Speaker
Don't be afraid to meet people. I know we're engineers and we tend to be shy, but, you know, reach out and meet other folks. And then the last thing would be to get back to your profession, whether that's through mentoring or working in a professional organization.
00:48:31
Speaker
um Teaching, teaching's great too. So all those things, get back to your profession.
Conclusion and Acknowledgments
00:48:38
Speaker
Thank you both for being here for for speaking with us. This has been an awesome episode. I really appreciate your time and your words of wisdom, especially as a young professional trying to, or an early career professional, I guess. I don't know if I'm classified as a young professional anymore, but, uh, uh, approaching the top of an early career scientist or engineer and it's, it's.
00:49:06
Speaker
inspiring and encouraging to to kind of get this sense of fulfillment and forward progress and maybe a light at the end of the tunnel ah or or with steps that I can take, even even the small the little things that can add up. And finally it sounds like finding a core group of people at work um will really make the difference and could potentially end up being lifelong friends.
00:49:34
Speaker
Absolutely. And it's so great that you do the podcast. I think that's a wonderful thing to spread information and reach out to the younger folks. So congratulations to you guys. Thank you. Thank you. It's been so much fun. It's been really fun. Thank you.
00:49:50
Speaker
for inviting us and really fun. Thank you for listening this month. We would like to thank the New Jersey Sea Grant for sponsoring the podcast, including today's episode. And do you enjoy listening to this podcast? Well, you can support Going Coastal while we provide sponsored episodes for your brand or your product or your company. Contact us with our new email address, podcastgoingcoastalatgmail.com. Thanks for listening.