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Winter Driving in an EV - Part 1 - Overview
169 Plays3 years ago
One of the more glaring issues facing potential EV buyers is range anxiety. We have all heard the stories about how electric vehicles won’t last in the winter, and that maybe you are going to freeze to death in a traffic jam. If you’ve been listening to our show, you know by now that these stories aren’t accurate. However, there are considerations that an EV owner needs to have when operating in a northern climate. This episode is the first of three in a series that is going to examine the issues facing electric vehicles when driving in the winter.
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Transcript
Introduction to EV Winter Challenges
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the plugin for more podcast. One of the more glaring issues facing potential EV buyers is range anxiety. We have all heard the stories about how electric vehicles won't last in the winter and that maybe you're going to freeze to death in a traffic jam. But if you've been listening to our show, you know by now that these stories aren't exactly accurate.
00:00:21
Speaker
There are however some considerations that EV owners need to have when operating in a northern climate, and this episode will be the first of three in a series that's going to examine the issues facing electric vehicles when driving in the winter. Enjoy.
00:00:36
Speaker
Welcome to Plug In For More, brought to you by evuniverse.com. EV Universe is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating. And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
Common Concerns About EV Winter Performance
00:01:02
Speaker
This episode, we're going to jump into what you need to know for driving your EV in the winter. There's a lot of questions that have been coming up with concerns of a range and battery longevity in the cold. And we really just want to try to hammer home a couple of points and maybe try to get away from some of the myths that are out there, maybe the misinformation. Cause it's also always prevalent. Um, Brian, what do you got, man? Yeah, Tom, I'm getting a lot of questions on that as I'm driving around town, you know, it's getting a little bit colder in Michigan and people are asking for a second.
00:01:32
Speaker
How is it to drive an EV around town? Because I don't know. I'm still waiting on mine. It's the best thing in the world, Tom. You should experience it sometime. Okay. I can't wait. I'm sorry. I just triggered there for a moment. It's okay. You should be triggered because it's awesome. You're really missing out. I can't wait in order to drive an EV in the cold. If you ever want to ride it, just let me know. I'm up for it anytime.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, people were asking a lot like, Hey, is that car gonna even work in the winter? And, you know, what's, are you concerned about your range? So I'm getting a ton of questions. Yeah. I know Mike's, Mike's actually owned an EV in the winter. This is my first time. I will say that I'm not seeing a massive range decrease yet as it gets colder here in Michigan. It's not like, Oh my gosh, it's, it's crazy. I'm seeing, usually I'm about 275 miles on an 80, 90% charge.
00:02:23
Speaker
This morning, as cold as 40 degrees, I had 265 miles. So I saw about a 10-mile difference, but nothing crazy. We'll see as it gets colder, but Mike's kind of an expert
Impact of Cold on EV Batteries
00:02:35
Speaker
here. I was just want to remind people kind of maybe why EV battery life is impacted by cold weather. The batteries on most modern EVs really have a temperature range between 40 and maybe 100 degrees Fahrenheit where they really feel
00:02:53
Speaker
where they feel good and the batteries, you know, perform as, as they want to same as an electric vehicle or same as a, I'm sorry, a gas powered vehicle when it gets cold out, uses more gas, things like that. And so the real reason why you're seeing less range is because as a battery get colder, or if you live in a super warm climate, they get too hot, the car actually has to use electricity to make sure the batteries are at that optimal temperature. So they actually have battery heating inside of them.
00:03:18
Speaker
and the batteries have to get warmer in order to charge, in order to operate efficiently. So you're using not only electricity to heat the cabin, but you're losing electricity to run the battery heaters themselves, the battery conditioning to see, and then obviously you're driving. So you're using three different areas of electricity where if it's normal, if it's 60 or 70 degrees, you're not using probably two of those.
00:03:44
Speaker
Mike, what are your experiences and maybe some ways to mitigate some of the decreased range your experience in the winter?
Optimizing EVs for Winter Driving
00:03:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean the first thing out of the gate is which car you're driving and it really depends on what kind of heat source they're using. So if they have a heat pump, they're much more efficient than if they don't have a heat pump. So what if you look at different studies and of course they
00:04:09
Speaker
are comparing at different temperatures, that sort of thing. But on average, you're looking at for, let's say, a new Tesla Model 3, anywhere from a 1% to a 5% decrease when it's 70 degrees out or thereabouts to freezing. When you look at a car such as a Chevy Volt or a Mustang Mach-E, which do not have heat pumps, those are losing around 30% in that same temperature range difference. So that's one thing to think about. If you're going to live in a northern climate, does it have a heat pump or not?
00:04:39
Speaker
make your decision for you. So, Tom.
00:04:42
Speaker
being a Machi soon to be owner. Think about that. Allegedly. Yeah, if you ever get yours. So that's one thing right out of the gate is which car you have. The other thing is make sure this is for any vehicle, make sure your tires are fully inflated. If you have snow tires on in the winter because you, again, get a lot of snow, that's more rolling resistance, which is going to decrease your range. I don't care if that's a gas or electric. You're not going to go as far.
00:05:13
Speaker
And then also, as far as tips on that vehicle, you want to make sure that when it's plugged in, if you precondition it for that EV, before you leave so that car is warmed up, before you go, you're going to get the most range at that point in time. Again, tires fully inflated, you're driving, go ahead. Just real quick though, what exactly is preconditioning?
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes, good point. Sorry, I jumped into that. So preconditioning, for those who don't have an EV yet, is you can do it a couple different ways. But essentially, it's telling your car you're going to leave at a specific time. And so when you do that, it will warm up the cabin for you. Again, if it's already plugged in, it'll warm up the battery. So it's warming it up to that preconditioned temperature where it's at its happiest and its most efficient. And so when you do that when it's plugged in, you're just using electricity from that charger.
00:06:02
Speaker
from your home or wherever you may be. And that way, again, when you get in it, it's nice and cozy, the battery's happy, and you're gonna be the most efficient. I wanna interject really quick too, listener, if you do have, so I just learned something this morning, right? So if you do have your home charger set up, so mine is set up to charge between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m. to take advantage of lower electricity rates. I'm gonna have to change that to be 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. because when I take my daughter to school at eight,
00:06:30
Speaker
I want to make sure that I'm going to use that electricity from the charger. So I'm going to set the, I'm going to set the limits from 11 to eight and I'll have the car start warming up around seven 50. So I'll pull that out of the chart, out of the electricity, out of the wall rather than battery. So I just want to clarify to any really specific, but if you do have a home charger set up on specific times, make sure you adjust it in the winter, be leaving a little bit later. Yep, exactly. And some, some vehicles, it's going to be on the car or on
Driving Techniques for Winter Efficiency
00:06:57
Speaker
the mobile app.
00:06:58
Speaker
It could be inside the car. It just depends on which car you have. So that is a very good point. Or it could be the charger itself. So a couple of different areas, you can tweak those when that car is going to be preconditioned. Another thing is how fast you're driving. Just like any other time of the year, the faster you drive, the less range you're going to get. And same thing in the winter. You're just going to see that play out a little bit more. And again, the last thing, which is the first point is if you live in a northern climate, get a car with a heat pump.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think that the speed is really interesting, Mike. Not just the winner, but I would say that's the number one question I get or see in the forums is, hey, last week I was getting 300 miles, this week I'm getting 250 miles. Is the car broken? And then the number one response is, well, did you take a road trip? Did you drive on the freeway? And I would say 90, 95% of the time, like, oh yeah, I was driving 80 miles an hour.
00:07:54
Speaker
You don't notice this in gas powered vehicles as much because the range, I don't ever look at the range really, but this is the same phenomenon, Mike and Tom. When you drive faster even in a gas powered vehicle, you get less miles per gallon. That's what we're really talking about here, is the faster you drive, the faster your range is going to drop. Is this pretty common sense here?
00:08:17
Speaker
It is. Especially when you look at the science behind it and the wind resistance, the faster you go, you're pushing the wind. That's why when you look at someone who's driving 45, 50 miles an hour, there's less wind resistance than if you're doing 125. Again, you're pushing that wind out of the way, the air out of the way.
00:08:37
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, it's, it's going to have a major impact. Um, the other thing too, I think with EVs that gets people is, um, the instant torque and that instant speed around town, which people love to utilize myself included. But when you're having that quick acceleration over and over again, that's not great for your range. So if you are, you have a little bit of a lead foot, you're gonna, you're gonna get less on a charge, just like you would on a gas car.
00:09:05
Speaker
So speaking of torque, Mike, I do enjoy beating pretty much everyone off the line. I will say a quick story last night. I went to dinner with my wife and I've never been iced, meaning a big truck, usually diesel or big, you know, 350, whatever truck tries to pull in front of you and blow smoke at you. That's, that's calling. No, that's called rolling coal.
00:09:28
Speaker
Well, maybe different terms, different regions. No, ice is when they block your charge. Being ice is when they block your charger. That's what that means. Rolling coals when they get in front of you and then they blow the smoke.
00:09:45
Speaker
the the
00:10:03
Speaker
Rolling coal. He tried to do it to me and I wasn't paying attention. So he got, he almost got in front of me. I was like, no way, dude. It's like, no way. So of course, you know, if you actually pay attention, there's no way a truck can get in front of you in an EV. It's impossible. Um, but I'm curious, my vehicle has snow mode and I've never turned on. And I'm curious your experience with snow mode. Does it take some of that torque away? Cause in the winter you don't want all of that torque, right? Um, so I'm just curious what your experience has been with snow mode.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yeah. So snow mode from everything that I've experienced with it is it really, it decreases the torque and make sure that you're starting off slower. So you're not going to spend those tires so that if you're in a slippery situation, it's going to roll a little bit easier and you're not going to get into a situation where you're all of a sudden spinning your tires and then you're, you're stuck not moving, which I know all three of us personally, I've seen all three of us get stuck at some point in our lives. Um, and.
00:11:01
Speaker
Some of us push other ones out. Oh, yep. I have no knowledge of being stuck anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you don't. Yep. I know your parents lost a delivery garbage can once because they put it in a bad spot, but I didn't get stuck. Offside of the driveway. Yeah. This is, this is going back many years to Tom with a rear wheel drive pickup truck and a lot of fish tails and Tom not knowing how to drive it and up a very short driveway in the winter.
00:11:31
Speaker
That's your version. That's fine. Um, so a lot of it though, with what we were talking about, like, you know, your snow mode is nothing more than trash control, like trash control, ABS, remote start, like all these things are just synonymous. Equivalence to, from an ICE vehicle to an EV vehicle, you know, preconditioning is remote start essentially, you know, trash control does like snow mode. Uh, yeah.
00:11:57
Speaker
Or is that too big of a generalization? Yeah, it's close. I mean, it's close enough. It's analogous that there's obviously going to be some minor differences. But for, yeah, in general, yes. I know that in a gas vehicle that there isn't a heater for the gas tank. I know that. But there isn't an EV battery. But essentially, you're remote starting it. Yep. Yeah.
00:12:22
Speaker
Mike, what's your experience charging in the winter because the batteries have to be warmer to charge, so does it take longer because the batteries have to be warmed up, or what's your experience with that?
00:12:32
Speaker
So with Tesla's, if you're going to a supercharger, at least now, they didn't used to do this, but over the last few years, this has been put in place, they will precondition
Preconditioning and Monitoring EVs in Winter
00:12:44
Speaker
themselves. They know that within a certain distance, they need to start warming up the battery. And so when you get to that supercharger, it's ready to go. Now, there's some newer vehicles that do that and some other ones that do not. A lot of it has to do with,
00:12:59
Speaker
do they know you're coming up on a DC fast charger? Then so you got to make sure that's in your navigation and the car is aware of it because if it's not, obviously it's not going to know that you're intending to charge. That's interesting.
00:13:18
Speaker
I will say too, it's kind of interesting on the EV6 app, at least you can go in and look at your trips and it'll show you how much electricity you use for actual propulsion of the vehicle, how much you use for cabin, how much you use for battery conditioning, and then how much you use for charging your phone. And so all summer, it's been zero on battery conditioning, never ever.
00:13:39
Speaker
But now I'm seeing if you're driving, especially in the mornings, it's been in the forties. It's been getting up, you know, into the seventies the afternoon. It's just really interesting to go to take my daughter to school using some electricity for battery conditioning. And then when I go pick her up in the afternoon at 70, I use as none. So I'm really curious to see as the winter goes, how much, you know, electricity it takes for battery conditioning and just really keep an eye on what that, what that looks like. It's a factor for sure. But there's ways to mitigate it.
Future Topics and Conclusion
00:14:07
Speaker
Cool. Cool.
00:14:09
Speaker
So things that we're going to look at a little bit closer, going further or going ahead and further episodes, we're going to have a tire expert on and it's going to be able to talk to us about EV tires and rubber composition and the rolling resistance that you already mentioned in this episode and things like that. We have to look forward to. And then we're also going to have Aaron Jones back on to talk just about heat pumps and the different heating elements and whatnot that are going to go into different EVs and why they're more efficient.
00:14:33
Speaker
I'll bring real world driving the snow in Northern Michigan, which probably gets more snow than most places in the country. So I'll bring real world examples of the range, what I'm seeing driving the snow snow mode. And so I always be talking about that. Hopefully not for awhile. It's still October. Hopefully we're not talking about that for a few more. We got a couple of months. And I really want to just, I just want to rip on Tom, the next few podcasts. So let's make sure we all listen in for that. Okay. So hopefully like tomorrow.
00:14:59
Speaker
We're recording first part of October, I guess Ford does their scheduling for production like every Thursday. So I'm crossing my fingers I get an email tomorrow because allegedly I'm priority one according to my Ford dealer, which could just be them blowing smoke to get me to stop calling them every week and looking for updates. But we'll see. I don't know. Can't wait to hear. Let us know, Tom.
00:15:24
Speaker
Okay. All right. You guys have a good rest of your day. Thanks. You too. Thanks. Thank you for listening to plug in for more. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, check out the one stop EV marketplace, evuniverse.com. Until next time.