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Revisiting: 5 EV Myths Debunked
920 Plays11 months ago
Welcome to the Plug In For More podcast! Mike, Tom, and Bryant are here to help you on your journey to an Electric vehicle future. Each episode we discuss current events, trends, and a specific topic of education related to EV's. We bring together a diverse experience set, and pair it with guests who are experts in the field. For even more information on EV's, check out www.EVUniverse.com.
The guys discuss the impacts of the recent announcement of Ford and GM joining the Tesla Supercharging network. Also, They rebuke five common myths that are perpetuated with EV ownership.
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Transcript
Intro: Debunking EV Myths
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the plugin for more podcast. Mike, what are we talking about today? Five myths on EV ownership. Beautiful. I'm glad we finally got a chance to get to it. Yeah. Yeah. As a last podcast recording, which is all about tax credits, I decided I was going to research the wrong topic, so I had an extra week to dive into this one. So I'm ultra prepared, excited for this, and I think it'll be a good conversation. Beautiful. Let's do it.
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Plug In For More, brought to you by evuniverse.com. EV Universe is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating. And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah. Does someone have birds nearby? I do. Yeah. Not anymore. Sounds beautiful and nice. It sounds like a Rivian. Sounds like a Rivian. I'm a Disney princess. Well, that's good. Nothing changes with time,
Tesla's Charging Network Expansion
00:01:16
Speaker
Tom.
00:01:16
Speaker
Yeah, so I think we talked about this as a charging podcast, but really interesting updates here. Not only has the Tesla superchargers started to open up to non-Tesla owners, but recent news, Ford, I think a few weeks ago, at least the time of this podcast, had announced they were going to start putting
00:01:38
Speaker
They were going to start putting the Tesla charger called NACS in all new forwards moving forward. And then this week, second week of June, while it's being recorded, GM announced the same thing. So now you have two massive automakers teaming up to join the Tesla network, which I think is super fascinating to see.
00:01:57
Speaker
And the speculations, at least talking to people on a road trip I recently did, is now there's concerns around what happens to the CCS networks, the Electrify America charge point. Do they continue to invest in those types of, you know, non-test the chargers or does this become just a test of the game? And I think that's a super interesting topic. We might even devote a whole podcast too, but Tom and Mike, what's your reactions?
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good information that's coming out about it. I think moving the industry, in my opinion, in the right direction. When you look at the Tesla connector, it's a better connector in a multitude of different ways, from reliability, from size, from weight, just as far as the usability of it. It's not a massive clunking.
00:02:45
Speaker
adapter that you have to almost have to have two hands to put into the car. That being said, I think the news coming from Ford and GM has been a little bit sparse and we haven't really heard exactly what they're going to be doing and what if they're going to be putting in a CCS, which is what they currently have in the vehicles and leave them there and then add an NACS. Are they going to add an adapter?
00:03:09
Speaker
so you can use them through the same port, or they're just going to move everything over to the NACS. I think there's lots still to be learned here before we know exactly other than Tesla's going to allow them into the supercharging network, so to speak. But what it will truly look like in function, I think is yet to be determined.
00:03:26
Speaker
Obviously, we have those factors to work through, but I love, love, love the idea of simplifying the charging experience for everybody moving across the country. If we are truly able to get to a one standard plug to where every vehicle, regardless of manufacturer, is using that NACS, that's great.
00:03:49
Speaker
Android and iPhone could get on the same plan, so everyone's using the same connector. That would be awesome. And I think the fact that the automobile industry is getting there quicker than a lot of the other tech companies is pretty great.
EV Road Trip Experiences
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm running into that right now. I mean, as you both know, I've made a lot of trips from North Carolina to Michigan. And we've done that family trips multiple times per year. And in my previous vehicles, I've all been Tesla. And that has worked out swimmingly. No issues whatsoever.
00:04:20
Speaker
this year, we have a Rivian, so CCS, and that because of where we have to go through West Virginia, we're actually going to skip and fly this year just because we're at a time crunch to get up there. And there's only one
00:04:34
Speaker
real good charger that that would work for us. And if it's a holiday weekend, if we get stuck multiple hours, it's really damping our trip. So we want to make sure that we get up there in time and that sort of thing. So I mean, right there is just one example of when you have to despair it.
00:04:51
Speaker
charging networks, some of the hiccups you can run into. Most of the rest of the country, of course, you guys have CCS vehicles or vehicles that work on that network. You guys have been fine on your road trips. I think it's worked out well. But for us, there's some holes in the country. And unfortunately, I live on the opposite side of one hole to get up to Michigan. I'm excited to see what happens. There's a lot of speculation around the values of non
00:05:16
Speaker
non GM Ford and test the vehicles go down because they can't access the supercharger. I mean, I'm really curious to your point, Mike. It's super questioning what the GM and Ford vehicle is going to do. And then you obviously have Tesla opening up though to CCS vehicles. So you have a lot of momentum in the right direction. I'm going to reserve judgment to see what values happen and things like that. We'll just have to see what happens.
00:05:41
Speaker
however though i do i do like it because there's multiple times on my recent trip down in chicago in saint louis i had no problems used electrify america however in chicago
00:05:52
Speaker
A lot of the Electrify America stations were full. I didn't have to wait. Luckily, I got the last spot, but then there was people waiting. And right next to us, there was a Supercharger, Tesla Supercharger. 25 stations are open, empty. So the fact that you could go use the Supercharger, I just think it makes it a lot more accessible and easy on road trips. And to your point, Tesla's reliability ratings
00:06:14
Speaker
or in the high 90s, where I think Electrify America, when I just looked it up before this podcast, were in the 40s. And that was the second highest. And then EVgo is like 20. And you get some of the others. Chargepoint was the lowest at 9% reliable. So anyway, I think it's a good thing. We'll just have to see what happens to the market. I don't think you're going to see a whole lot more pushback, though. I think you're going to see some of these other smaller manufacturers are going to fall in line and want to get on board with the NACS.
00:06:44
Speaker
I think that's over at this point. Yeah. I mean, I think when you look at Rivian, my guess is Rivian's probably going to jump. I'm just pure speculation there. One really interesting manufacturer I think will be VW.
00:07:01
Speaker
Because we think about where electrified America came from and the diesel gate money and how that kind of transpired. And if you're not familiar with that whole story, it's worth looking up. But basically, let's try America and that whole.
00:07:16
Speaker
the rollout is really funded through money from VW. And so are they going to follow along? Does it impact them? I'm not sure all the specifics there, but that's an extremely large manufacturer and we'll see what they do. But yeah, so we got to think, how does it impact? This is the US.
00:07:38
Speaker
CCS is used overseas, especially in Europe. And so is that going to factor into any pushback we see there? I don't know. This is going to get complicated, but I do think the dam is sort of breaking here, and we're going to see a lot more jumping over to NACS soon.
Myth: Limited EV Range
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think best state would be you could charge either or. I mean, Teslas can use. I was actually confused by this. Maybe, Mike, you have some insights here. I was at a charging station about an hour north of Chicago.
00:08:07
Speaker
There's three Electrify Americas. There's about 25 superchargers, maybe 15, 20, I don't know. And there's a Tesla Model 3 charging at Electrify America and not using the supercharger network. And there's some people, there's a Mach-E specifically that was pretty pissed about that test of taking up an Electrify America spot when there's a Tesla supercharger literally 10 feet away. And I just don't know why you would do that. But maybe, Mike, you have an idea. I don't know.
00:08:34
Speaker
My only guess is that there was, that guy had some credits on Electra America, and he was getting either free charging or very reduced price charging. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense for him to do that. And frankly, it's more work. I mean, for people who have used a Tesla Supercharger, you truly just back up into the spot, or most nine times a ton, depends on how the stalls are set up. But back into the spot, get out of the car, plug it in, and that's it. I mean, it is simple.
00:09:02
Speaker
with Electra America or CCS. I mean, you have to obviously have the payment and it's a little bit more cumbersome. And then you have to worry about reliability too. So unless there's a money manufacturer there or maybe that supercharger whole station wasn't even running yet. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that is the one was taken up. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. That's my only guess.
00:09:26
Speaker
You're listening to the plugin for more podcast. If you're looking for information on electric vehicles, electric vehicles, components, or information on how to reduce your carbon footprint, look no further than evuniverse.com. evuniverse.com is your one stop shop for all things related to electric vehicle. What we're here to talk about today in this episode is the five myths of EV ownership. The first one, first myth we're going to talk about is the limited range.
00:09:54
Speaker
who wants to start
00:10:06
Speaker
You can't travel that far and early on that really was the case, especially when you looked at the Nissan LEAF and having only approximately 100, 120 miles of range and even some of the used ones getting down in the 50, 60 mile range. But on the new vehicles, they're going pretty darn far.
00:10:25
Speaker
I think the Lucid Air has a 516 range model. There's a bunch right around 400, especially when you look at the Model X and Model S. And then there's, Rivian's got 340 some model range on their R1Ts and their dual range, our dual motor models coming along too. I mean, there's a lot that are actually in the 300 plus and even more when you look at the 250 plus.
00:10:54
Speaker
For me, it's really a misnomer. It's really a huge myth that they don't have much range. One thing to factor in is that day-to-day driving, he really don't necessarily fill it up 100% on most vehicles. It's about 80%, 90%, sometimes 70%, but you're not fully charging it. But you do wake up most days with a full charge. And then on the opposite side, you're not completely depleting that battery either. So even if it has a full
00:11:22
Speaker
quote unquote 300 mile range. There's a lot of factors into that, such as the speed, which we've talked about here, the weather. So if it's very cold out and we've talked about different ways you can limit that range loss.
00:11:38
Speaker
And then besides that, it's really just, um, you know, that you're not hitting those to the top and bottom of that, of that battery. Um, but otherwise, I mean, really the range is place efficient for many longer road trips. I've done them. You all have done them. Um, so for me, that's a, that's a number one myth that I would like to dispel right now.
Myth: EVs Are Expensive
00:11:59
Speaker
There's not enough range. Yeah, I would agree with that. It's a number one.
00:12:02
Speaker
I think I recently just did a road trip to Chicago last week. I had to go 390 miles to where I was going. My EV6 on the highway has about 280 to 290 mile range. To your point, Mike, you only need to drive about 250 before I charge. I like to give 30 mile buffer. I'm just going to be a little more conservative. But to your point, I was stopping at Electrify America station for a 15 minute charge.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I took a team meeting on my Zoom call and I was just, you know, I held up my phone and hey guys, I'm just, you know, getting a quick 15, 20 minute top off here. And the number one comment was, well, how many times you have to do that on the way to Chicago, probably four or five, right? And I was like, no, there's no literally this 15, 20 minutes is all I need more than enough. I probably don't even need the full, you know, 15 minutes to get there. I just need to top this thing off.
00:12:48
Speaker
10 minutes would have probably been enough, but I think you're right. I think pretty much most EVs now have at least a 200-mile range, if not more, and there's opportunities along the way to get more range for different models like you covered. The biggest thing for me too with two smaller children is that
00:13:09
Speaker
There's no way we're going that full, let's say 300 miles without stopping to go to the bathroom with two kids. It just does not happen. I know a lot of people, hey, I want to go 500, 600 miles at a pop without stopping. One, there's a lot of driver fatigue. The bladders in our vehicle are not going to last that long.
00:13:29
Speaker
If we got to stop for 15 minutes, it doesn't really impact us. It really just provides a good stopping place for us. Get on the road, get a quick bite if you need to, get a quick snack, get a drink, go. Cool.
00:13:47
Speaker
I was trying to find the list of what our five myths were and I don't know where they're at. Number two is, uh, number two is lack of charging infrastructure. Yeah. I'm out. Okay. So someone was making fun of someone else from not being prepared last week, but, um, I have never made any claims about being prepared for a podcast. No, you made fun of me. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yes. You got it. Hey, there it is.
00:14:15
Speaker
There it is. That's the first time I've ever seen this. I'm glad you opened up your, Brian, you should be happy when Tom's needs your name. He's just like, no, I'm not reading that.
00:14:27
Speaker
So good. That's not true. I mean, he knew the topic at least Tom speechless here. This is awesome. So I often sing Brian's praises for his preparation and the layouts and the outlines he gives us for podcasts. And I truly appreciate it. And I don't think I have ever seen this document. Sounds like a bunch of Maloney or malarkey. So according to this list, number two is the lack of charging infrastructure.
00:14:55
Speaker
I'm going to say this one, I think, you know, we, we just covered a little bit with, uh, the plugs that GM and Ford are going to with Tesla. However, I will say, you know, I've, I've been continuing to be surprised. There's a plug share app out there, which is kind of a peer sourced list of all the chargers in the country. There's better route planner. There's a charge point. There's a bunch of apps that show you where vehicles are at and have our chargers are at. And I've never been somewhere actually, but there's not a charger now granted.
00:15:25
Speaker
maybe it's not a fast charger, but it continues to blow my mind when I talk to people that they reference. I'll just take a quick swing at a friend of mine in Ann Arbor. His son lives in Ely, Minnesota. And guess what? There's a charger in Ely, Minnesota. There's a charger at the National Park Wolf Station there. And so I think the charging infrastructure definitely is still developing.
00:15:50
Speaker
However, even last week in Chicago, downtown Chicago, I was actually slightly worried about being downtown Chicago with parking decks, but I found so many chargers and parking decks, it was almost impossible not to see them. There is a charger, every parking deck I tried in Chicago, and it was pretty easy to find. And so I think this is definitely something that continues to be
00:16:14
Speaker
We need more charging infrastructure. Obviously, I'm not saying it's fully built out, but I still think it's at a level right now where unless you're going on a massive road trip across West Virginia or Wyoming or some other, you know, densely populated states, I've had no problems finding charging stations.
00:16:33
Speaker
on any of my road trips I've done, and I put 20,000 miles on my car in one year. So I think this is definitely a myth, but there's a little bit of truth to it. The infrastructure needs to be built. I agree with you on that. And to imply that our charging infrastructure is on par with the current infrastructure in an ICE vehicle for gas stations, that's absolutely true. It's not.
00:16:57
Speaker
It is still doable. You can still travel cross country. You can still make these trips. You can still do everything you would normally do. It just takes just a little bit more planning and not a lot more. Yep.
EV Charging Infrastructure
00:17:08
Speaker
That's absolutely, you know, you hit the nail on the head there. I mean, again, the only reason I am flying from North Carolina to Michigan is truly just, there's one spot in West Virginia. If there was one, let's say like for America station there, we would, we would totally do it.
00:17:26
Speaker
It is a brutal trip anyways, just because we're only going to be gone five days and be almost two days each way on the road. It's a long, long trip. We've done it numerous times and it's doable for us. We're just underneath the time crunch.
00:17:45
Speaker
I think this last point on this is 99% of EV owners are going to charge at their house. And that's just something that is a fact. And I think the charging infrastructure at your house, if you're just a local commuter going around town, we've talked about this, is more than enough. You probably will never, unless you take a road trip more than 200 miles,
00:18:05
Speaker
you'll never need to charge in a public network because you leave your house every day full or 80% at least, 90% and you have enough. So I think that's just one more point I wanted to bring up on that. So then that brings us to our third myth of EV ownership and that's going to be the high cost associated with purchasing an EV.
Long-term Savings with EVs
00:18:24
Speaker
So my take on this is that people are looking at the initial purchase price of an electric vehicle and you're seeing a lot of electric vehicles that are
00:18:32
Speaker
50 to 60 to $75,000 and upwards even from there and making that comparison and saying, wow, it's expensive, but it's a new car. A lot of gasoline cars are also up around that price point as well, especially if you start looking at the platinum lightning.
00:18:50
Speaker
Ford F-150 Lightning to the Platinum ICE counterpart. They're running up around 100 grand. Yeah. Tom, that's a great myth. And I think early on, that was truly the case. When you look at the Tesla Roadster and the Tesla Model S, those are very expensive vehicles. However, now, and this just recently happened in the last few weeks, it really looks like
00:19:12
Speaker
The Tesla Model 3 is truly at price parity with ICE vehicles. If you look at some of the impact reports that have been done by Tesla and others, and this is without even factoring on local and federal tax incentives, it really is already cheap. The Tesla Model 3 is a cheap price parity with the Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, Mercedes C-Class.
00:19:34
Speaker
Even when you look at the price per mile, it's actually beating like the Toyota Corolla of all things. It's truly amazing. That report came out before the latest price reductions by the Tesla Model 3.
00:19:53
Speaker
or some of these tax incentives. I mean, you can get a brand new Model 3 for just over $30,000 if you're in California and similar states, it's low 30s. I mean, you guys have driven them. I mean, they're solid vehicles. I mean, there's a reason why so many people are buying these things is because it's a heck of a deal.
00:20:17
Speaker
And that's just as of buying it new, not even factoring the savings with the decreased maintenance and the electricity versus the gas prices. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's articles going around on the internet that talk a lot about, and I've read them before to that, you know, people afford them to me about talking about the cost of electricity versus gasoline. And to your point, Mike, I think.
00:20:41
Speaker
There's a couple of things I want to make on that one. One, the most expensive month for my, I have tracked all my mileage on my app. The most expensive month for me in charging was in December. That was $45. I drove 1,994 miles in December for $45. And granted, a lot of that was home charging.
00:21:04
Speaker
I think, I think the misleading thing on some of these articles going around is if you supercharge, you know, uh, electrify America, it's 48 cents a kilowatt hour. So you're talking to like, quote unquote, you know, full tank, you're like $35 kind of similar to gas is a little bit cheaper still. But if you, if you supercharged all the time, 24 seven, like all of your driving, then it's a little bit, you know, more expensive, maybe more in power with the price of gasoline. But the fact is you're probably going to be 99% of the time charging at home. Like we just talked about.
00:21:34
Speaker
And a lot of the home chargers, a lot of the consumers is my electrical company. They have incentives to charge at night. And so my rate at night is so low. It's very, very economical. $47 to drive 1,900 miles is way cheaper than gas. No oil changes. All you really have to do the first 20,000 miles owning it with my car is I've had to rotate the tires one time.
00:22:00
Speaker
That's it. It was $25. So $25, 20,000 miles. And then last point, not every vehicle has this. My vehicle has three years of free charging Electrify America for a thousand kilowatt hours. So even on a highway.
00:22:16
Speaker
I'm getting free charging in electrify America. So it's very, very, I think, unfair to say the EV cost per mile as on the same with gasoline powered vehicles, just on those articles talking about fast charging all the time in the freeway. I think that's a mis-comparison of the real cost. And I think that segue is next nicely into our fourth myth about limited options.
Variety of EV Options
00:22:41
Speaker
And I think there's a belief amongst the general population that
00:22:45
Speaker
Electric vehicles are like Priuses and they're small and there aren't very many of them. They aren't good for much besides commuting, and that's not true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just in general, the number of new EVs that are coming on the market is just exploding. That's why on evuniverse.com we have a new feature that'll be rolling out very soon. Can't announce it quite yet, but once we do, I'll be really excited to share with you on helping you find some different models out there on the market.
00:23:13
Speaker
especially for this reason, but there's lots of sedans. A lot of people don't know about the Lucid Air. BMW has the new i7. They have the i5 that's coming out. They already have the i4 that's been out for quite some time. On the SUV range, BMW has the iX.
00:23:30
Speaker
SUV, you're still looking at the Rivian R1S, which is a large SUV. There's a ton of different vehicles on the market, even pickup trucks. There's three good ones on the market currently, and there's more common. The Kia EV9's on the way. There are plenty of things on the horizon.
00:23:50
Speaker
I don't think you have to no longer think about Cybertrucks and that craziness. F-150 is the best-selling truck in the United States for 30 years and it's an EV version. You don't have to get a crazy Cybertruck.
00:24:07
Speaker
You can just go get something that's like practical makes sense. You know, actually, if you're listening, please don't get a Cybertruck. Yeah, please just take everything Brian and Tom are saying with a grain of salt, because this is only just a rib at me, not actually any advice. So whatever they just said the last 30 seconds or so, just please disregard. I think a Cybertruck is going to be a game changer. And you guys will just be jealous.
00:24:35
Speaker
and Tom doesn't like the flashy cars. So there it is. Whatever you got to tell yourself to sleep at night, man. Number five. And number five.
Environmental Impact of EVs
00:24:43
Speaker
So this is one that I hear often where people are going to get on a podium and talk about how mining for battery materials is going to be more harmful than drilling for oil, or that there is a coal burning power plant someplace in the world that is generating electricity for the car and you're still doing just as much harm. What do you say to that?
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think one is, I don't even say it's a tough question. I would say it's a very detailed question or needs a detailed answer. And
00:25:17
Speaker
Very, very smart folks, much smarter than myself from MIT, studied this and did a large write-up, I would say a year and a half or so ago, that looked at the environmental impact in the whole supply chain for EV batteries versus a gas vehicle.
00:25:37
Speaker
And what the summary of that essentially is, and I'm paraphrasing and I'm trying to remember exactly the details of it. So I apologize in advance if there's some slight mistakes in here. But basically what it came up with is the gas vehicles are
00:25:59
Speaker
have less environmental impact over the first year to three years, depending on how many miles they're driven. Then after that point, it's not even close with the EVs, essentially from there on out. It doesn't matter how dirty your electricity is, if it's coming off from coal plants, you're still better off at that point. If you're coming from a renewable energy source,
00:26:23
Speaker
It's just solar or wind. It's even better at that point. But there definitely is, I don't think there's anyone who would say that there isn't worse environmental impacts from that initial mining of a battery. But overall, it doesn't take very long to overcome that initial hit, I would say, to the CO2 emissions.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah, I agree, Mike. I think I've read that article you're referencing. And I also think, you know, the advancements in battery technology at this exact moment, obviously, you know, the battery technology is what it is. But we continue to hear and read about, I kind of geek out about this, but there's all these, you know, new battery technology is being worked on and being developed, where literally there's one I was reading about over in Sweden, where
00:27:14
Speaker
they use water as a battery to hold electricity. And if we ever get to the point, and I'm not saying that's going to be tomorrow, but if we were to the point where water is our battery, then there's no comparison. But even solid state batteries and some other things on the future, battery technology is just going to get better and better and better. Just think about your iPhone, even five years ago, how long your iPhone battery lasted versus now.
00:27:38
Speaker
Better technology just continues to get better. Another good example would be microprocessors. Think about computer chips, how fast they've gotten and so much smaller. I think it's battery technology is going to be the same thing. Even in the next couple of years, I think when we see some massive improvements that help take down that cost of the environmental mining of the battery components.
00:28:00
Speaker
In just a common enough speed of change, Ford re-released a new battery for like a 23 and a half model year with a new battery that's actually cheaper to produce and essentially more efficient than the Mach-E that I purchased in January, which is still a 23-year model. It's happening that quickly for these cars.
00:28:23
Speaker
I mean, I think, I think one more, one more point I want to make too, is I think there's a lot of, uh, battery recycling technology that's coming online as well. And to use these components that the batteries, you know, at one point, you know, you'd throw away your, your double A, your triple A batteries, you'd throw away a lot of those things. Now there's battery recycling centers. We can go and take those batteries. And I think just not losing those components to the landfill, but recycling battery, I think that technology.
00:28:50
Speaker
is even more in its infancy because there's just so much. I was reading a research study on this. There's so much that we don't even know about how long the batteries will last. But once you even recycle them, you can utilize most of the components. So I think there's a lot of things here that are just cutting-edge technology that we can learn from the next couple of years that will drastically decrease the environmental impact of that battery component.
00:29:16
Speaker
Guys, I appreciate the time and effort that you put into preparing our five myths of EV ownership. To our listeners, please, please, please get out to your podcast platforms and rate and review our show. We really appreciate it. And we look forward to getting those from you. And gentlemen, unless you got anything to add, I think it's time we call it. Good to see you. Talk to you next time. Good seeing you guys. All right. We'll see you.
00:29:40
Speaker
Thank you for listening to plug in for more. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, check out the one-stop EV Marketplace, evuniverse.com. Until next time.