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Welcome to Season 3! - New Year, New Tax Rules
649 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to the Plug In For More podcast! Mike, Tom, and Bryant are here to help you on your journey to an Electric vehicle future. Each episode we discuss current events, trends, and a specific topic of education related to EV's. We bring together a diverse experience set, and pair it with guests who are experts in the field. For even more information on EV's, check out www.EVUniverse.com.
In this episode Mike, Tom, and Bryant talk Ram REV, Cybertruck and the Tesla Cyber Semi. Also, they hit on the new tax credit changes for EV's in 2024.
Be sure to follow PIFM on our various social media platforms, for more exciting content on EV’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pifm_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PIFMPodcast
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Journey
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome back to the plugin for more podcasts. We are here for episode one of season three, Mike and Brian. Did you ever think that we would be making it this far? I did. Cause I've got confidence in us, but apparently you don't. I did zero. I'm surprised that people want to listen to us that long. Well, that's probably what you get told all the time, but, um, I'm coming in with daggers today. Sorry guys. Tom, I'm not surprised you want to listen to us, but to Mike, I don't know. That's, that's all sphere.
00:00:31
Speaker
goes around here. Wait, what? What? I don't know. That part out. I don't know. Mumble, mumble.
00:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, podcasting.
Sponsor Message: EVUniverse.com
00:00:43
Speaker
Welcome to Plug In For More, brought to you by EVUniverse.com. EVUniverse is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating. And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
Ram All-Electric Pickup Overview
00:01:11
Speaker
One of the vehicles that I've been watching that's been promised to us for a while now is the Ram all-electric pickup and there's been a pretty exciting announcement for that which is I'm not sure how I feel and I wanted to bounce it off you guys first but they're talking about having a gas generator built into this thing for a range booster. Well then it's not an all-electric truck now is it? Well this this gas engine isn't powering the drivetrain like your standard hybrid so it's not necessarily that but
00:01:39
Speaker
What's interesting is that it has either the 168 kilowatt hour battery or the optional 229, which is a pretty stout battery, as we know from other large trucks. The range alone in those battery only options is going to put you around 350 miles. With this gas engine that's built into it to power the generator, you're going to be looking up around 690 miles of range. Yeah.
Rivian R1T and Cybertruck Discussion
00:02:01
Speaker
So here's my take on that. So as I think we've talked about in the podcast, so I've got the Rivian R1T right now, the quad motor.
00:02:08
Speaker
large battery pack, which on the EPA rated range is 318 miles or 314, I can't remember which one, but on conserve mode, I'm getting 347 is what it's showing up as. And for the most part, if I'm driving rural back roads, 55, 60 miles an hour, that's pretty accurate. It actually does really well. I've been really impressed with that versus the Tesla's of old
00:02:35
Speaker
I'll get to my point here in just a second, just kind of bear with me. But lately there's been, you know, the Cybertruck has just come out and there was just a range test that Kyle Connor of Out of Spec Reviews did where driving at 70 miles an hour, the Cybertruck, which that truck that he was driving was rated at 320 miles of range.
00:02:55
Speaker
only got 254 miles or 257. So it was much lower than what it was EPA rated at. And frankly, again, we all know the faster you go, the less range you get. However, 250 some miles is not that great. And a little while ago, there was also an extended range battery for the Ford F-150 Lightning with a similar test, got right about the same amount of range.
00:03:23
Speaker
I'm thinking, okay, so one, those tests were done at like 45, 50 degrees. So kind of ideal temperatures. Now the Cybertruck has, um, all terrain tires, which doesn't help when there's a lot of details that go into it. But no matter what, if you're looking at 250 miles of range, that's not a ton. You drop the temperature, you start towing stuff, you load up the truck, like a lot of truck, you know, people do. And that's going to start killing your range. A lot of people like to go above the speed limit too. That's going to hurt it even worse.
00:03:53
Speaker
Um, and then beyond that, that 250 some miles of the Cybertruck went, that's, that was from a hundred percent down to zero. They killed that battery. I mean, they just, when I say killed, they emptied it out essentially. So you're not going to go actually 250 some miles. You're going to be around 200 ish because you're not going to go completely to a hundred percent down to zero. Again, if you're towing, that's 120 miles. If you're doing, that's not a whole lot. So what I'm trying to get at with all this stuff.
00:04:23
Speaker
is if you're gonna tow on the regular, you're gonna need something either with a massive battery that's not on the market yet like the Tesla Cybertruck as their extender for $16,000 or with the REV from RAM with their generator onboard. I think if you're gonna tow, those are your two only options. And I think the beauty of it with that onboard generator, and I'm not sold entirely, but you don't have to use it.
00:04:53
Speaker
So you bounce around doing your normal commute stuff. It's not going to necessarily activate the gas generator. It's only going to be on a needed basis. So perhaps 90% of your driving doesn't require that extra range or that extra boost. You're good. You're plugging it home just like normal and that gas tank stays full until it's needed. I will say the little blast from the past here, this is not.
00:05:19
Speaker
new because I did learn something about two months ago that the Chevy Volt has the same thing. It has a 1.4 liter gas powered engine that can extend the range up to 310 miles and kicks out when the battery is depleted to automatically charge the battery. And when the vehicle goes over 70 miles an hour, it also has through this, I'm not going to describe it, I'm going to quote it, planetary gear shift, transmit,
00:05:46
Speaker
helps like power the engine. So like, this is an interesting thought because the volt's been around for a decade, but maybe Dodge is thinking about learning from the vault and what we're talking about towing. I don't know. I didn't know the vault had a gas engine. Maybe you guys did. I thought the vault was purely electric, but. Yeah, they also have the, um, the BMW I, uh, three had a similar range extender options as well. So it's not.
00:06:13
Speaker
that novel in that application. I think the mileage you get out of it is way, way, way different. And it really puts it into a category where it's probably more useful. I think. Yeah. The thing is, of course, we didn't, we talked about this before with the plugin hybrids and hybrids in general is now you've got two different systems you have to maintain. So you're going to have oil changes because
00:06:36
Speaker
With the REV from RAM, you're going to be talking about it's a V6 Pentastar engine, right? So that's right out of their normal lineup. They've been using it for years. It's a well-known engine, but you still have oil changes. You still have all the other fluid changes you need to do. You're still carrying around that extra weight, which doesn't help with your efficiency.
00:06:57
Speaker
There's definitely some trade offs, but if you are going to go to the buyer, that's just going to use it only for those times where they really need it for those long towing situations or when you're out of range or out of infrastructure.
Jay Leno's Tesla Semi Experience
00:07:14
Speaker
Maybe that's an ideal scenario for some people. I think it kind of fills a gap.
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree. So guys, I was reading in the Hagerty magazine, Jay Leno's article, and I always read it. This one was interesting because it talked about him driving the Tesla semi truck. I don't think I've read about anyone driving it personally. I'm sure there's stories out there, but I wanted to highlight some of the article for you guys. He said he drove the Tesla semi, which is their idea of an electric over the road hauler, sort of like driving a McLaren F1, which I've driven before. They're pretty sweet.
00:07:48
Speaker
But he did a test where he was able to take 80,000 pounds of vehicle, vehicles, put them in a car hauler, back up the Tesla semi to it and pull away. And in his words, he said, even though the whole rig, which trailer rate 80,000 pounds, I could not tell the difference between having it loaded and unloaded accelerated exactly the same. And you can go 500 miles.
00:08:12
Speaker
And his opinion is he thought it was amazing that if you're a short haul trucker, like thousands of truckers are going from short distances, this is going to be a truck of the future. No dirty fuel, no changing oil every other week. And you can pull it right into a warehouse because there's no emissions. And he's a huge fan.
00:08:34
Speaker
I like the end of it too, and I'll get into the cyber trucks. He talked about the cyber truck here for a second, but I like the end where he says, people my age often complain about America isn't what it used to be. A lot of them are like Mark Twain, who's credit with the saying, I'm in favor of progress. It's changed. I don't like, but in the end, it doesn't really matter what America used to be. It only matters where America's headed. And to me, it looks like we're headed.
00:08:58
Speaker
in a good direction. And he was applauding Tesla being a U.S. company and U.S. engineering breakthrough. So I thought it was pretty cool. He highlighted some of the other things about how comfortable it was, how it's a different type of semi than anything he's ever been in. And but he did say there's oddities just like every Tesla. Like the windows don't roll down. They crack a quarter of an inch, which is interesting. But I'm sure that's for aerodynamics or something. I don't know. But
00:09:23
Speaker
Anyway, uh, any reactions from you guys on what Leno thinks? I was surprised he loves to test the semi. It's kind of, well, I mean, I've got one, I want to go back to the beginning of what you're saying. You brushed over this, um, very briefly, but for anyone who doesn't know, I think it'd be good if you describe what exactly is a McLaren F1 and that you've driven one and you just brushed off like that was no big deal. Now for people who might not be aware of a McLaren F1, you might want to Google it.
00:09:52
Speaker
Um, Brian, how much are those going for these days? That's a good point, Mike. I should talk about that. Uh, 20 million, uh, is a McLaren F one. And, uh, yeah, that's, I would say it's, it's credit as being one of the first like supercars, you know, I've heard, I've heard enough from you on this topic. Sorry, you've driven it. We should get one of those and do an all electric conversion. We should. Yeah. Yes. All of the above. Okay.
00:10:23
Speaker
Yes. Um, yeah,
Cybertruck's Presence and Delivery
00:10:25
Speaker
Brian. All right. So Brian and his little minor driving of a McLaren F1. Um, sorry, what were we, we're talking about the cyber truck or the semi truck. So do we know exact battery numbers out? Everything I'm seeing looks like it's roughly about 900 kilowatt hours for that battery pack on the summer, the semi truck.
00:10:45
Speaker
That's what I've heard 900, 900 hours, roughly, or 900 kilowatt hours, 500 mile range, fully loaded. I don't think there's been a ton of testing done on this, but Leno, Leno seems to think it's legit. No, imagine the charging time on that. Like you get it on a level two charger. Well, that's where they've got the megawatt charger, right? So that's going to change everything. Obviously quite a bit. Um, I do have a contact with the company that's testing it.
00:11:13
Speaker
right now, and I had some conversations with them last week. Yeah, I can't say where, but they were very, very impressed with it. They initially had some issues when it first came out, and I think we saw the reports of it on the side of the road, but all the drivers rave about it, and it's really a competition of who's getting to drive it. So that's about all I can really say at this point, but yeah, it seems like it's a fan favorite from the drivers right now.
00:11:43
Speaker
I thought it was kind of interesting in the article too. He said, Elon Musk came to his garage in 2007 with the Roadster, which we know Mike has, and he drove it. And I told him it was great. And then I said, it's never going to work because there's no charging stations. And he said, Elon Musk said, I'm actually going to create charging stations all across the country. You can pull up and charge for free. Well, that part maybe didn't come true. And Leno said, I remember thinking that's never going to happen. But as we all know,
00:12:10
Speaker
Everyone is now using Tesla chargers for pretty much everything. In the next year, every vehicle on the road, pretty much will be able to use Tesla charger in the next 24 months or so. And all the new cars from all the new OEMs are going to have right from factory ability to use this. So Musk was right on and Leno was dead wrong on that.
00:12:33
Speaker
And then last piece here, I'm a huge fan of Tesla and their story. However, the Cybertruck is not necessarily my thing. Mike, speaking of Cybertrucks, you got to see a Cybertruck. I mean, how attached were you? Oh, my gosh. Well, so Cybertruck, in person, it does
00:12:59
Speaker
It makes a statement. I mean, it makes a statement when you see it in pictures. But my gosh, when you see it in person, it is a whole heck of a different vehicle. I mean, it's truly like makes the there's a Model Y and a three in the showroom in the Charlotte Tesla store. And those look like old school, like no one cared anymore. They're walking right by it. Doesn't matter. Like no one was getting in them. That thing is
00:13:29
Speaker
I mean, it's, I don't even know how to describe it other than, I mean, you know what it looks like, but this is completely different feeling when you get there. It's like, it's not even real. Um, so on that update, Tom knows this. I don't think I've shared with you, Bryce. So my order came up for the cyber truck and I'm due to come in between January and March. Um, that was, you know, one of the within the first.
00:13:57
Speaker
week and a half of the ordering this time when it came around. So I've had it on order for four years. Um, and so I'm technically I'm slated to get the all wheel drive non beast version. So the, was it four seconds, zero to 60, four and a half seconds, zero to 60, uh, something like that. And the longer range, um, model, but, uh, that's the foundation, um, series. So we'll see when that actually shows up. But.
00:14:25
Speaker
on that topic, so I've got the Rivian right now, the Cybertruck on order. With that range test that just came out, and I don't know if you guys have seen this with the CCS charging, like the adapter, doesn't fit in the Cybertruck because of the way the wheel well sticks out. So if you have to go to Electrify America and you need to use your adapter, you've got to pull off the wheel well. Luckily, it's only hooked in by clips.
00:14:55
Speaker
That's not a great thing. I don't know. I mean, I'm a little bit nervous about even like, is this thing going to be worth it? Because the range isn't that great. And it's a lot of money. And frankly, with some of the deals on the F-150 Lightning, because one of the things I'm running into is just space in the Rivian. Like the interior is not as big as what I'd like it to be. The Cybertruck is a little bit bigger. And then the F-150 Lightning is the biggest.
00:15:25
Speaker
I don't know. That's kind of the best deal in the range is kind of on par with the rest of them with the lightning. I don't know. The last episode we recorded where we talked about the Cybertruck reveal, I didn't about face on that one. I have been making fun of the Cybertruck ever since it's been announced because I think it's hideous. There's no secrets there.
00:15:49
Speaker
But seeing all of the underlying engineering and all of the parts that have gone into it, it's a revolutionary vehicle. I think it's going to be really cool. And I think it's really important for the future of the auto industry as a whole. And what it's going to bring to the table is something that we haven't seen before. Yeah. Range aside, it's still an impressive vehicle. Oh, absolutely. I don't think there's any doubt in my mind about that fact.
00:16:16
Speaker
What I'm running through is the amount of money for this thing. And truly what it can do differently than what I currently have versus also what a lightning can do. Like, is it extra 40 some thousand dollars getting, is it going to save me time at a charger until the version four Tesla superchargers come out and are everywhere? No, probably not. Because the charging curve doesn't seem like it's that great.
00:16:46
Speaker
Um, it's got a smaller frunk, much smaller frunk than the Rivian or the lightning. The vault has been shown to not be waterproof, which kind of expected, but you kind of like it to be somewhat more waterproof than what it seems like it's been. Um, I don't, I'm trying to, I'm trying to see the, the like daily benefits of this thing. Other than yeah, it's cool. And it's going to get tons of looks, but like.
00:17:14
Speaker
Think of all the attention that you're gonna get. This totally works out the numbers. My ego will feel great every day. Like I built it myself or something. I am speechless and I think I lost a bet with Rene on this one if Mike doesn't get it. No, I'm still probably gonna get it, but in minutes. We're just in the Friday lull of... I'm just tired. I had too much sugar today or something.
00:17:43
Speaker
Oh, wow, Mike. Wow. Debating the Cybertruck. I mean, what can you say? How many do you have on order?
Electric Vehicle Tax Credits Update
00:17:51
Speaker
Three? Four? Three. Yeah, but two of them are super early reservations. It looks like for a while there, they were offering those foundation units to folks, for all of them, but they stopped doing that after one or two went through. So you're basically allowed one of those and then they're
00:18:11
Speaker
I'm not sure where else it's going to land in line, but yeah. So we'll see. I don't know. Maybe we'll get me. I'll get it. We'll test it and maybe I'll be one of the first people to sell it back to Tesla. I don't know. There you go.
00:18:25
Speaker
you're listening to the plug in for more podcast. If you're looking for information on electric vehicles, electric vehicles components or information on how to reduce your carbon footprint, look no further than evuniverse.com. evuniverse.com is your one stop shop for all things related to electric vehicle.
00:18:45
Speaker
Well, and maybe this is a segue for our main topic, maybe not, but does the Cybertruck qualify for the tax credits? I think the Lightning does. Standard range battery on the Lightning does, the Cybertruck. I don't think it's, Tesla has said that they expect it to on the
00:19:08
Speaker
all wheel drive version that starts at $79,000, but that's not really available right now because it's the foundation units that are above that price point. So not at the moment for what they're producing. So the Cybertruck probably won't qualify at the current. You can get a Lightning that does. And then do we know when Ford is putting the Tesla NAS plugin? Is that soon?
00:19:38
Speaker
I don't think we've heard any confirmation on that. And I was wrong on that. So it's for both batteries for that 150 lighting. It's extended range and the standard range. But no, I mean, I think we're going to probably hear some of that soon.
00:19:54
Speaker
when they're making the change over how they're doing it, at least sending out adapters, et cetera, et cetera. Should we talk about listeners? Should we talk about an update to the tax credits, which we've been promising for a long time? Should we give an update? What do you guys think? I think we should. We had a big change here the first of the year, and there's a few vehicles that are no longer on the list that used to be on the list.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so I know that in the past there was, how many vehicles are on the list? Like 43, I think there's a lot there on the list. And I think now as of this recording, January 5th, 2024, the best day in the history of days, because it's my birthday. Oh, happy birthday birthday. Thank you.
00:20:41
Speaker
Thank you. So 19 vehicles qualify now, and it's easier than ever to get one of the credits because you can get it at dealership. The dealership can just give it to you as part of the purchase price. And I don't know any details on this, maybe you guys do too, but I heard that there's less IRS loopholes. It's pretty much just like, here's the ones that qualify. You don't have to fill out all this tax paperwork and all this claims stuff. It's just easier. But the vehicles that qualify would be the Chevy Volt.
00:21:11
Speaker
We're not doing hybrids, the F-150 Lightning, the Tesla Model 3, the Tesla Model X, the Tesla Model Y, all the performance versions of the Teslas and all that. And we'll go into all those details. And guys, that's, unless I'm missing one, that's pretty much it. That's not a lot. So not on the list.
00:21:37
Speaker
you're not gonna see the Volkswagen ID for the Nissan Leaf, the Mustang Mach-E, the Chevy Blazer EV. It's kind of wild. Yeah, I think it's gonna streamline the process a lot though at being at the dealership. I know Tesla right now they've had
00:21:56
Speaker
some issues with people getting it when they go to pick up their car, because Tesla obviously the manufacturer and they weren't set up in the same way the dealerships were. So hopefully they'll have that fixed in the next couple of days. I know they've been working on it, but that just from an ease of view standpoint, it's pretty, pretty great. Obviously the income requirements still impact that, which is interesting and I haven't, they may well see what happens at the end of the year,
00:22:26
Speaker
Let's say, you know, you're expected to stay under the income limit and then you win the lottery or something and you're over that limit. I would say lottery might not be the exact scenario we're talking about, but they come into a windfall of money essentially through their income. Um, yeah. Are they going to have to pay that money back since it's coming right off of the dealership? You know, what's that process look like? Um,
00:22:51
Speaker
I haven't dug into it enough to know, but we should probably give an update on that too, just because, you know, there's some people who might be on the cusp of that where they're adjusted gross income could impact one or the other. Well, then the partial tax credit, which is 37.50.
00:23:10
Speaker
You do get the Rivian R1S and T included in that. Um, so that helps a little bit. Those are all the $80,000, you know, MSRP. So you get, you know, 30, 3,700 bucks, which I'll take 3,700 bucks. Um, and then, you know, the reason was like, I was surprised about the Mach-E not qualifying, but.
00:23:31
Speaker
You know, high level, we could go into pages and pages and pages of why, but high level, the two sourcing qualifications that must be met are really some of these things. 60% of the car's battery components must be manufactured or assembled in North America. And these 50% of the critical materials in the battery must be extracted or processed in United States or a country that's a free trade agreement with the US.
00:23:54
Speaker
So I think that's what's really limiting most of these other vehicles, like the DV6 and ID4 and the Mach-E and all those other cars you mentioned, Tom, that don't qualify anymore. Looking at the Rivian specifically, how it's the partial credit, and then they're putting the max limit of $80,000 on it, I understand that it qualifies, but
00:24:16
Speaker
are Rivian's actually coming in at that price point. I thought like every Rivian is above 80 grand. So yeah, I mean, there, there are a few, um, Rivian's that did like the R1T with the dual motors. Those are going to start at like $73,000. So, um, they, there are some that do qualify for, um, that it's just going to be the dual motor versus the quad and the smaller batteries. So, um, that's, that's where they're going to still be part of that qualification. Now, a lot of them are not going to be, um, with the quad motor and the
00:24:46
Speaker
Um, largest battery pack, but, um, you know, you can definitely still get into them for under the $80,000 MSRP. So guys, I am looking forward to our season three and bringing lots of information to our listener about electric vehicles. Is there anything we want to plug going forward for topics that we're going to be bringing
Upcoming Season Three Topics
00:25:05
Speaker
up here in the future? I think we should talk more about.
00:25:07
Speaker
As the EV tax credits evolve and new vehicles come out, if they qualify, there's also the used EV tax credit, which is new, we'll probably want to talk about. And then as more and more people are starting to look at EVs in the used market, because now new EVs, besides Tesla's are now two, three, four years old.
00:25:30
Speaker
What do you look for when you buy a used EV? I think we've covered that high level, but more in depth on that. So those are some topics I want to talk about. And then obviously the NAS charging. I mean, I can't wait to pull up at a supercharger that does not have a magic dock and charge my EV6. So I'm literally on pins and needles waiting to find out. Cause I've seen these adapters on the internet from Lectron and others that people say will not work to the software, but
00:26:01
Speaker
What happens? Like I want to, I want to know, I want to know the end of that answer. Well, we'll find out. I mean, and I think we should also talk about the depreciation curve, some of these cars too. Cause some of them you can get for scream and deal right now, um, on the used market. And I do also want to talk about some of the, there's been a lot of Ford.
00:26:20
Speaker
Lightnings and Mach-E's that are available on the used market that are buybacks. There's been a ton of those. Aaron Jones, who was on our podcast a while ago, former Tesla service manager, he bought a Mach-E that was a lemon buyback.
00:26:39
Speaker
and we might want to have him back on the show to talk about that experience and the things he's seen with that vehicle. I think he's still getting some of the bugs worked out on it. It's kind of some software and some electrical issues with that. Nothing major but just like headlights and stuff like that that are causing the battery to drain. Yeah, there's a lot out there that we're going to cover this year and a bunch of stuff we don't even know we're going to cover yet because it hasn't been announced to the public.
00:27:07
Speaker
I'm excited for this year. I would agree. And maybe Tom and I, we tested our batteries. My car is now two years old. It's got 30,000 miles. I won't tell you how much battery degradation has happened a little bit. And Tom, I think some battery stuff on your car too. Yes, there has been some degradation, but I think it's all within our expected tolerances.
00:27:31
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess more to come. And, uh, my free charging runs out this year. So, uh, when I have to pay for charging, I'm like, what am I to do with myself? So I don't, I'm not used to driving for free. Like I want to drive for free. Well, I mean, you paid for it one way or the other. So, I mean, like that's my right. I should be able to drive for free people. Oh.
00:28:00
Speaker
What are we going to do? So on that note, I guess it was great seeing you guys. Okay. I'm going to stop this now. I'm trying to bring some energy and quirkiness. Come on. You definitely brought the quirkiness. Yes, he does. He brought the quirkiness.