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Revisiting: Insurance and registration considerations for EV's
646 Plays7 months ago
Welcome to the Plug In For More podcast! Mike, Tom, and Bryant are here to help you on your journey to an Electric vehicle future. Each episode we discuss current events, trends, and a specific topic of education related to EV's. We bring together a diverse experience set, and pair it with guests who are experts in the field. For even more information on EV's, check out www.EVUniverse.com.
In this episode we focus on the differences between ICE and electric vehicles as it applies to Insurance and registration. The guys also discuss seeing a pre-production Silverado EV, as well as a BYD in the wild.
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Transcript
Vacation Woes in Northern Michigan
00:00:00
Speaker
Just real quick with the vacation stuff, you guys going to your tropical places, I think you really missed the underrated Northern Michigan 35 degrees and rain snow mix where everything's brown. I think you really missed the boat here. It was nice. You did. Actually, I didn't take a boat. Well, I did a little bit, but it's mostly like planes. I did the plane trains automobiles thing.
00:00:24
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I look out the window right now, it's nice and brown. It's what, 42 today or 45 and no rain. So. Oh, 75 and sunny here. We're going to get up into the fifties today. See, there you go. Look at that happen. Yep. You'll enjoy that, that sweatshirt and pants.
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm having my windows down today. I can tell you that one.
Introduction to 'Plug in For More' Podcast
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome to plug in for more brought to you by evuniverse.com. EV universe is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating.
00:01:10
Speaker
And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
First Impressions of the Silverado EV
00:01:16
Speaker
Bryant got to see a Silverado EV up close. That was pretty cool. What do you think of that? Yeah, I liked it. I was actually really surprised. I was just pulling into a charger and there's actually two of them there. They're both test vehicles. I was kind of bummed because I was taking videos and pictures and the guys were giving me, you know, kind of like mean looks. I was going to go in the look in the interior, but
00:01:39
Speaker
They would definitely not let me do that. But I would say first impressions, having driven the Lightning, seeing the scene in bed in the Rivian, I think this is bigger. It's bigger than the Lightning, just a little bit. I would say from a perspective of how wide it is, it just feels like a much bigger truck than the F-150.
00:02:02
Speaker
And then it really looks like the Honda Ridgeline. That is the styling of it. The Honda Ridgeline is probably right down to the T, what it is. But overall, it's a really attractive truck. And the people in the parking lot around me, not even EV buyers, were really interested. This one guy pulled up in his Silverado.
00:02:22
Speaker
He's like, man, you're geeking out the new EV. It looks pretty cool. And we had a good conversation. But yeah, I would say I'm really excited to see what the final, you know, these are test vehicles. So I'm assuming they'll look somewhat like it, right? But the final one I think is going to look sharp. I mean, I know I want one. I mean, I think Tom and I both put reservations down on the Denali version.
The Humor in EV Reservations
00:02:43
Speaker
It's a sharp looking truck. I've got a first day reservation for the Silverado as well.
00:02:50
Speaker
So I got one for both of those, but I also got the invite to build lightning. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. I got the invite. I definitely not going to be, uh, getting one of those. I think you need a couple more trucks though, right? Yeah. I think that'll help my marriage out quite a bit. If I just keep buying more cars, my wife's going to be super thrilled. So it's been two months since you bought a new vehicle. I know you're getting the itch yet. Come on.
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, kind of. I mean, it's already there. It never really goes away. She's been really, really good about my addiction problems with these vehicles. But I think it's best for everybody, us included, if I slow down a little bit on that.
Concerns Over Silverado EV Charging Speed
00:03:33
Speaker
I would say the only thing about the Silverado I saw, and I know it's a test vehicle, guys.
00:03:37
Speaker
When I pulled in, I was like, I don't know, 38% EV, EV6 charging. I threw it in, you know, went up to 90 in, I don't know, 20 minutes or so. I came back out and the Silverado was still like at 56. So I know, like I said, these aren't the real ones. These are tasked, but they better fix the charging because I charged up and labbed that guy on my car. So that was kind of interesting.
00:04:01
Speaker
You know, that's one thing I've noticed with the Rivian, too, is the charging speed is fine. I mean, on the home charger, it's not really any different than my other vehicles. But when you have such large batteries in these things, it's just going to take longer. I mean, that's something I don't think it's really being talked about. They talk about, like, what's the charging curve and what's the max charging speed? Well, it's like these things are way less efficient and much bigger batteries. It's just going to take longer.
Critique of the Hummer EV
00:04:30
Speaker
And there's no way around it. I mean, when you look at something like the Hummer, which I've got a buddy who was talking to me about that yesterday because he wanted to get a Hummer. I'm like, have you seen how wide these things are? I'm like, you're not going to be able to, like a normal parking spot is going to be tough because they're like eight inches wider than the, than the light need. I mean, so they're, they're super wide, but I mean, that's like a 200 kilowatt battery. I mean, they're big. It's double like a Tesla Model S or X.
00:04:55
Speaker
Speaking of the Hummer EV, Brian, you're going to get one of those, aren't you? Because your wife was reaching out and campaigning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about that for a second. So randomly over the weekend, I get this text message like, hey, don't tell Brian, but I really want a Hummer EV. How can I work this from Brian's wife? And so I just look at this message and go,
00:05:23
Speaker
Hmm. Should I respond to this or? Yeah. Okay. I will. Yeah. I mean, and you know, do right by my buddy or nope. No, not Texas wife. Yes. This is how you get it. So, uh, that's how you convince him. But anyway, so what did she say? So what did, uh, when's yours getting delivered?
00:05:44
Speaker
I mean, like, this is a weird problem to have. I'm trying to talk like this opposite of Mike, like my wife wants to buy all these EVs and I'm like, no, I like, I like the EV we have.
00:05:57
Speaker
But no, like I don't like the Hummer guys. Like, so like, let me back up. So the day we're leaving, um, after the Silverado was the next morning we're driving by and, um, there was a Hummer sitting at the charger and she's like, Oh my gosh, like, look at that. It's amazing. And it's like, no, it's not amazing. It's not, I hate that truck. It's like the biggest, biggest waste of EV space in the world. But no, I mean, there's cool things about it. Don't be wrong. But anytime a truck has to crab walk, like, come on.
00:06:26
Speaker
So we're not getting one. And I warned, I warned you both not to respond and antagonize her, but I'm, I'm sure you both did that. So, yeah, don't, don't worry. We got you back before the other. Yeah. I mean, they're cool. I mean, they're just, there's, they're really actually not practical at all. I mean, they're just like the bed's actually tiny. You can't park them anywhere.
00:06:54
Speaker
Agreed. They won't fit in a garage because they're so tall. Like, I mean, don't get me wrong. I think they're cool. They're just not practical. It's about as useless as a Rivian, but just for the opposite reasons. Okay. Now let's just clarify. Tom has never written in a Rivian.
00:07:14
Speaker
Just, he's all making these assumptions on his, on these headlights, which I actually, I love that Rivian, man. That thing is a, it's been a really good truck and I'm defending it now because I feel like I have to. I'm sure it's a great truck. It is. It is a really good truck. Um, okay. I mean, the only, the only thing more obnoxious than the, than the Hummer is the Cybertruck. That thing's going to be.
00:07:41
Speaker
Sweet. Do you guys see the new, um, April fool's video of the crash test that never occurred. So it shows it like almost right into the wall and like 15 different perspectives as it makes you think it's going to actually hit the wall and it doesn't. I saw a friend of the show, Aaron Jones. He, uh, was posting that video and making everybody watch it. Yeah. Like he should. Yep. For more Tesla employee. Yep. Right. Yep.
00:08:09
Speaker
So we hinted a little bit earlier where I was picking on these guys for taking tropical vacations, but Brian got to see a really cool Eevee where he was at.
EVs on Small Islands: Challenges and Opportunities
00:08:18
Speaker
Was it the build your dreams Eevee? Build your dreams Eevee. For most people they know it as BYD from China. That's just, I, yeah, yeah.
00:08:27
Speaker
I'd never seen it before. I mean, I pulled up, so I was in the Exumas and it was actually, so let me back up a quick second. Having a gas powered vehicle in a small island community is a pain in the butt. So we rented a little tiny Honda Fit and our last day there, of course, there's no gas, right? The gas stations are all empty. We waited in line for like 45 minutes for gas to be delivered.
00:08:51
Speaker
And throughout the whole time we're there, I was thinking, man, like it'd be really like, I think these are the Islanders would probably be the first people to adopt an EV because you can have solar panels easily on a roof or even if not solar panels, just charge your EV. The island's only 36 miles long.
00:09:08
Speaker
So even on a 200 mile, 200 mile range EV, you can drive that Island, you know, five or six times, no problem. Um, and this importing gas is such a pain in the butt, like waiting in line at a gas station for 45 minutes and then getting to the front and there's no gas. Um, but yeah, so we're driving around and we saw.
00:09:26
Speaker
build your own or build your dreams, BYD, China's biggest, I think one of their biggest vehicle manufacturers in the world, I think right behind Tesla. And I was actually really impressed. It reminds me a lot of the Fisker ocean size or like that smaller like CX-5 Mazda.
00:09:47
Speaker
Not a huge massive EV, but I was really impressed. No one was around it, so I was able to look at it, look inside of it. The interior looks really well done. I don't know anything about the range or anything from the owner's perspective. I wasn't able to talk to them, but it was really a sharp looking EV.
00:10:07
Speaker
It catches your eye. Um, when I pulled up to it, I immediately like looked at it and knew it was kind of something cool. So I think it was, you know, I'm not sure. Um, if you guys know if, if you can import them into the U S obviously we're outside of the United States, but no, I mean, that that's one thing for our listeners is that, that BYD is not available in the U S and I there's some talk of them coming over at some point, but we're not going to be able to get our hands on that for a few years at a minimum before that would occur. So.
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, they're fun to look at, but don't get your hopes up on driving one in the U.S. anytime soon.
EV Insurance Complexities
00:10:42
Speaker
You're listening to the plug-in for more podcast. If you're looking for information on electric vehicles, electric vehicles components, or information on how to reduce your carbon footprint, look no further than evuniverse.com. evuniverse.com is your one-stop shop for all things related to electric vehicle.
00:11:02
Speaker
So one of our topics we want to talk about with EVs is some of the other ancillary costs you might run into. We've talked a lot about saving money on fuel and electricity instead.
00:11:13
Speaker
Things like car insurance and registration fees that people don't often consider when they're looking for new cars. And it's something that is potentially different for an electric vehicle. Brian has an extensive background in the insurance industry, and he's going to talk to us a little bit about the insurance differences for an EV versus an ICE vehicle. So yeah, we get a lot of questions at my day jobs at Hagerty. We're a classic car, modern sports car, enthusiast car company, insurance company.
00:11:40
Speaker
And we get a lot of questions daily if we'll ensure Tesla, for ensure Lucid, because people are finding it's a lot more expensive to ensure these electric vehicles. And would it fit on a specialty policy, like a Hagerty policy meant for more of a classic car or a collectible car? And so.
00:11:58
Speaker
The long story short is Hagerty doesn't really insure a lot of those types of vehicles because our policy is more meant for electric cars, not cars that are driven daily, and a lot of these cars are being driven daily. So as far as the insurance industry goes, there's a lot of factors that fall into why it's more expensive to insure an electric vehicle generally.
00:12:21
Speaker
And we can talk about those. I think the four big ones really are around the technology of electric vehicles. So there's a lot of technology that is in electric vehicles. They tend to be leading the technology space, right? So think of Tesla and the self-driving, all the cameras. Even my EV6 doesn't have full self-driving, but it's got cameras everywhere, there's sensors everywhere.
00:12:44
Speaker
There's a lot of technology in the car that if you get into even a small fender bender, it's going to cost a lot of money to fix. And Mike, I think you have an example of this from your Tesla accident.
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, so the accident I had was with a 2015 Tesla Model S P85D, and that was a fender bender. I mean, it was five miles an hour or less. I mean, it was really a small little accident, but with the camera up front and the sensors, I mean, that was a
00:13:18
Speaker
A couple months long process to get it repaired, not only from just finding a new bumper and getting some of the new components, but also just the calibration. So the calibration of the sensors took an extra three days because they're having difficulty.
00:13:33
Speaker
Doing that and that whole process I believe it was like 16 hours for that tech to troubleshoot and fix what was going on with it now that's not like a standard case but with mine it was something they ran into and I think that kind of factors into the insurance costs that sometimes you're gonna run into these things that are gonna take longer than normal and It just it really delayed things Again, so I was expecting to get on Monday and I didn't pick up the car until Friday because of these couldn't calibrate it so yeah
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah, Mike, I mean, you just hit the nail on the head. So you're going to take, you know, in the insurance base, they call that severity. So how much an accident cost to completely fix the vehicle, right? And the severity of what you just described is a lot longer because of all those cameras and all of the costs that go associated with it. And then plus, if you have rental on your policy,
00:14:23
Speaker
Now the insurance company is paying that much longer for rental. And so I think that delives into, I think the number two reason why EVs are a little bit more expensive to insure is because generally they're taking longer to be repaired.
Repair and Battery Replacement Challenges
00:14:35
Speaker
Like you described, it's cameras, it's part availability. There's not a lot of shops even know how to work on these types of cars. And think about the wait times of experience over the last year or two, Tom with his Mach-E.
00:14:49
Speaker
in just getting the vehicle, let alone replacement parts. So then the insurance company is stuck paying rental for three, four, five, six months when a normal vehicle will take two weeks. So that drives up the cost as well for the vehicles.
00:15:05
Speaker
Um, I think the third reason is the battery replacement and the battery, you know, testing and a lot of questions around what that looks like. So it's pretty easy. You know, a friend of mine, you know, she just had, um, an accident was total out her Ford excursion. It's pretty easy in a, you know, that type of car to know, like if the engine's damage, right? It's pretty easy to figure out on an EV. I think it's a little bit harder. Um, you know, is the battery damage? They have to run diagnostics. You know, Mike, what are your, what are your thoughts on like battery replacements and things like that?
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the battery replacement is a number one, it's a huge cost if they have to replace the whole thing. And I think that goes back to some of the things we've heard about Tesla. I mean, right now they're just the biggest out there. So let's use them as an example. But when they replace a battery or a battery component, if they see that something
00:15:55
Speaker
Need needs to be replaced is replace the whole thing and I I noticed that even with a door panel It was just a small piece of trim, but they were placed based of the whole door They just shut up my house and replace the whole thing which frankly seemed very wasteful and you know, maybe they took that door back and you know
00:16:16
Speaker
parted it out, so it wasn't going to be just completely scrapped. But that's sort of analogous to what we're hearing with some of the battery replacement stuff. There's a piece on it that's broken, they're not just going to fix that piece, they're just going to take out the whole thing, put a whole new one in. And so that just all of a sudden might be a $15 part, but now all of a sudden you're getting a $20,000 battery.
00:16:40
Speaker
Is that the case forever? I doubt it. I think they're going to start really digging in and finding some of these pieces and just fixing those smaller expenses. But then on the newer Teslas, when you have these structural batteries, there's some real questions there as far as on the new Model Ys and what's going to happen with the Cybertruck and some other ones when that battery is truly part of the whole frame of the car. If that gets damaged,
00:17:10
Speaker
Are you just replacing the whole car? Like, is that even replaceable? Can you even fix that battery or are you just scrapping the whole thing? I think that's going to be really interesting to see what happens in the next few months and years once those vehicles start coming out with those structural battery pack.
Supercar Performance and Insurance Costs
00:17:24
Speaker
We're not going to be able to give people an exact dollar a mile, like how much their insurance is going to go up, if at all. And maybe I'm in an anomaly with this, but my Mach-E is about $30 less a month and my Dodge Ram was for the same exact coverage.
00:17:40
Speaker
I don't know if that's attributed to the safety features or just that I had a really fancy truck. I'm not sure which, but for me, I didn't see an increase. That's a good point. I think the safety feature is probably an area, so we're talking about the physical damage of the vehicle in severe accidents, though EVs are also cutting edge with safety features.
00:18:05
Speaker
You might see some insurance companies actually save money because there's not severe injuries.
00:18:12
Speaker
Now, that's just in general. My EV6 was about $100 every six months more than my RAM, so not a huge increase to your point. It wasn't less expensive, but it wasn't insane. But I think also what we need to get into though is I think the very last reason why insurance generally at Hagerty rating hit up with Lucid and Teslas is the performance of the vehicles.
00:18:37
Speaker
This is pretty big because we run into this a lot. If you, if you've never driven a super car before, so if you go from, we call it like new money or, or I call it like new money or, you know, you, you become really wealthy. You're going to get a McLaren or a Lamborghini.
00:18:52
Speaker
and you've never driven something like that before, we see a lot of accidents. Just Google it, right? So many people not even getting home and getting into accidents because they've never felt something like that before. And now you're getting Teslas and other EVs in a three, two, three, four seconds, zero to 60. You're talking about supercar performance in a family sedan. People aren't used to handling that. I think that's another differentiation too, if you're gonna get a Tesla,
00:19:18
Speaker
You know, it's zero to 60 in 1.9 seconds. That's, you're talking like six supercar versus, you know, some of the Audi Q4 e-trons are, you know, seven, eight seconds. So I think that also factors into the vehicle insurance of how, how performance driven is it versus, you know, you're, you're a Mustang and my EV six still quick, you know, four or five seconds zero to 60, but we're not talking like zero, 62 seconds.
00:19:44
Speaker
You think about that even just a few years ago. Your cars that you're driving now, which aren't even the performance version of those vehicles, are so faster than most or if not all the Ferraris of the 80s and some of the 90s. Again, they're not even the fast ones. If you look at even the Rivian truck that I've got, 0-60 and 3.0,
00:20:12
Speaker
And that's faster than a McLaren F1. Correct. That's 7,000 pounds. Incredible for a mini truck. Exactly. Thanks, Tom, for that. That's wonderful. You still need to apologize to Ruby. They're going to cry. But yeah, no, I mean, it's just to your point. It's what those cars can do and how fast if you can get into an accident, how fast can you get into an accident, and how much extra damage does that performance cause?
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably the biggest one there is just, are people ready to have such a high performance type of vehicle? They're not used to it.
Understanding EV Registration Fees
00:20:50
Speaker
So I think, you know, Tom, you talked about this a little bit too, but what kind of registration fee did you see? Because I know I saw I was sticker shocked with my registration fee, but what did you see on your Mach-E?
00:21:02
Speaker
So I ended up having to spend about $140 just to get mine at the time of registration. The state of Michigan charges the $140 on top of your normal fees.
00:21:16
Speaker
And we're not going to dive into every state because every state is going to be different, but Michigan is going to base your registration fee on the original MSRP of the vehicle. So you're going to have that initial fee alone, which I think for the Mike Maki and our EV6 price point is going to be around like $300 a year. And then the state's going to ding you for another $140 a year just because it's an electric car.
00:21:40
Speaker
The thought process behind it is that you're not utilizing gas pumps anymore. So you're not paying the fuel tax, which is right now about 28.6 cents per gallon for Michigan. So that fuel tax obviously goes towards fixing roads in theory and other, you know, road based operations.
00:22:02
Speaker
So that's the way the state is going to recoup its money in order to keep the revenue up. That's all the same. My RAM registration was like 160 bucks a year, 170 bucks a year, and my EV6 is like 440. So it's definitely a lot more expensive. But to your point, we're not using the fuel tax. We're using zero fuel tax. So that's the way to offset it. Right. And so like we're still...
00:22:27
Speaker
in the green, so to speak, you know, if you start looking at overall costs of ownership, but like some states, there's like, there's about 20 different states that I found that are going to have a special fee associated with electric vehicles.
The True Cost of Owning EVs
00:22:39
Speaker
Like Georgia, I think is the highest that I found some research is about $215 extra. Um, you know, California is like a hundred, I think. And then obviously Michigan is at 140, but there's, I think it's going to be pretty consistent across the board.
00:22:55
Speaker
I mean, at the end of the day, I think that the main thing for the listeners is that there's, there's pluses to EVs. And I think we've talked about a lot of them, but there's also, there's some downsides too. And there's things that you get to consider. Um, it's not all, you know, uh, rose colored glasses and when we're, when we're talking about this stuff. And so it's just buyer beware. And that's what we're here for is trying to help educate people.
00:23:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think putting a nail in the insurance conversation. It's interesting to see Tesla has its own insurance. Rivian started up its own insurance. I'd be really curious to see in the long run what happens with some of these car companies. This isn't new. Companies have tried this before.
00:23:30
Speaker
starting their own insurance, but you know, Tom and I's experiences, it doesn't have to be crazy expensive. So if you do get an EV and you do see a massive increase, it might make sense to shop around because you know, mine's 200 bucks a year difference. Tom's is less expensive. Mike, I don't know what your insurance looks like from, you know, your, it's been a while since you've owned a gas powered car. I don't, I don't. Um,
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, frankly, I mean, it's going from a truck to from the Model Y, you know, and there was a small change there. But for the most part, it's been pretty close. And the MSRP on all the vehicles is about the same. Well, I'm glad that we finally got all three of us back in the same room to do a recording here. Hopefully we keep it going. It's all good. It's all good. You guys have a great rest of your day. You too.
00:24:21
Speaker
Thanks guys. Good to see you guys. Thank you for listening to plug in for more. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, check out the one stop EV Marketplace, evuniverse.com. Until next time.