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Why does an EV have a 12V battery - what happens when it goes bad?
678 Plays8 months ago
Welcome to the Plug In For More podcast! Mike, Tom, and Bryant are here to help you on your journey to an Electric vehicle future. Each episode we discuss current events, trends, and a specific topic of education related to EV's. We bring together a diverse experience set, and pair it with guests who are experts in the field. For even more information on EV's, check out www.EVUniverse.com.
The guys welcome Bryant back from another "Vacation" and delve into why EV's have a 12 volt battery. This question comes into focus after Bryant experiences the failure of his 12v battery in the Kia EV6.
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Transcript
EV6 Battery Issues and Towing
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, guys, I missed you guys last week, but I'm excited to talk today. I want to talk about the 12-volt battery problem I have in my EV6. We want to talk about how to tow a dead EV because I think that's huge. But really, I think the number one thing I want to talk about is I missed the podcast where we made fun of Mike's bulldog and then him hitting multiple things. It wasn't just a pole. He also had a Tesla before this that he also ran into someone with. I think Mike has some, like,
00:00:28
Speaker
Like self-driving issues or maybe he should use self-drive more like I don't know I mean I just I can't believe I missed the opportunity to rip on Mike on a podcast
Podcast Introduction and Host Backgrounds
00:00:38
Speaker
Welcome to Plug In For More, brought to you by evuniverse.com. EV Universe is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating. And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah, here we are. I mean, I guess first off, what you do is you take your car out of old man mode. You typically keep your car in. But yeah, I'll bring it all down for you, Brian. And for everyone out there. Yeah.
00:01:20
Speaker
So the history behind this, and for the listeners that listened to early on in the podcast, there was an incident about two and a half or so years ago. Maybe not that long, maybe it's a year and a half now. A while ago, I like to put it out there, many, many miles of driving ago. I rear-ended somebody at a traffic light. They had went, got halfway through the intersection, then stopped. I had looked left, went right.
Costly Car Repairs and Insurance Woes
00:01:48
Speaker
Anyways, so that was a Tesla P85D that I rerunted the lady with And then that one got fixed yada yada yada Now I was at a parking deck with my family and we just left a restaurant and there's a big concrete pillar and The way I parked was far away from everybody So of course keep the Rivian looking nice and pretty and that turned out
00:02:17
Speaker
exactly how I intended by reversing and it was just in between the sensors and I fully cranked the wheel and just smacked the door. And so that was a, I think the insurance right now is looking at like a $6,700 claim on that originally supposed to be higher, what looks like it's actually gonna be less. So a lot of that was actually due to the review mirror.
00:02:40
Speaker
getting need to be replaced and then all the sensors having to be recalibrated and because it's a Rivian and there's not too many repair centers they have to flatbed it about an hour and a half away get it fixed there and then bring it back to the other body shop so there's there's a lot of costs that really I don't think are normally necessary like the flatbed truck because of a rear-view mirror
00:03:07
Speaker
or a side mirror. But anyways, so thanks, Brian, for all this. But in your defense, I won't often come here, but this pillar, it probably wasn't painted like bright yellow. It was probably just a gray concrete, hard to see in the dark, right? Yeah. I mean, it's really well lit area that it was white.
00:03:27
Speaker
right next to the truck that I had just previously walked past and had to make sure I didn't hit the passenger door when putting my child into the rear seat. I've got no excuses at all whatsoever. Listener two, I think this is a pattern with Mike as well. When he crashes his car, he gets a new car. He doesn't get it fixed, he gets a new car.
Cybertruck Anticipation and EV Choices
00:03:51
Speaker
I guess you're calling a spade a spade, yes. So I do have a Cybertruck that's finally like maybe coming in any day now. So let's talk about that, where I'm at. So Cybertruck originally put my reservation in four years ago on opening night, actually only got three.
00:04:09
Speaker
because things are going smooth. And then I configured about 65 days ago. So got my invitation to actually configure the vehicle, did that, got the all-wheel drive version. And then I've been waiting for the bin. And I call the local Tesla store. They have not delivered any yet. So it looks like I'll probably be one of the first in my area to get one.
00:04:36
Speaker
I'm bugging them more than I probably should, but they've been very kind and understanding. In the meantime, I am driving a Kia EV6, Bryant, which should make you very, very happy. It's a great car. It doesn't have as much storage as a truck, but it's doing well.
00:04:57
Speaker
I am happy you're driving EV6. I miss mine. But before we get into that, though, Mike, tell me about the decision you're going to have here, though. Cybertruck or F-150 Platinum Lightning? Yeah, so, OK. So here's what's running through my mind. So we have the Rivian is a great truck. I love it. It's the four motor. It's 835 horsepower. The range is over. I think it's
00:05:27
Speaker
going much, much better than what it typically is rated for. I mean, I'm seeing 360 miles typically on a charge. I mean, it's doing really, really well. That's because I'm not doing 85 on the highway. It's really a mixed-use vehicle for me. The problem that I have with it is there's not as much room in the cab is what I need. So I've got two kids. I've got two dogs. We throw a bunch of stuff in the bed all the time. The frunk is a good size. The gear tunnel is great, but it's just not quite big enough.
00:05:56
Speaker
So looking at the Cybertruck versus F-150 Lightning, obviously the cab and F-150 Lightning is the biggest of the three.
00:06:05
Speaker
Cybertruck is kind of a middle ground there, but the Cybertruck's a hundred grand. I mean, it's really, really expensive. The F-150 is lightning right now, especially even a Platinum or a Lariat. I mean, those are significant discounts. You can get a brand new Platinum off the lot for $71,000, $72,000 right now that has massaging seats and all the different tow packages.
EV Pricing Dilemmas
00:06:26
Speaker
That's really, I mean, the MSRP on those is close to $95,000, $100,000 themselves.
00:06:33
Speaker
You know, do you, do I save myself $30,000? Not have the cool new thing on the, on the road. Um, yeah. So it's the ego thing at this point. And we know how much you like your flash. So I have a feeling it might be worth $30,000. Yeah, of course, to make my ego feel better. Yep.
00:06:53
Speaker
I mean, also listener, I just want to paint a picture here of Mike has a reputation in the Raleigh community of being that cool EV guy. And I think we should do a listener poll, which is cooler, F-150 Lightning, which I think is cool, or a Cybertruck. Mike has, he has to keep up his appearances in this community.
00:07:16
Speaker
All right. But the price thing is really something to consider and like I'm looking at the Ford or what they're doing with their prices and obviously the lightening is coming down, the Mach-E is coming down, which I'm a little bitter about the Mach-E pricing because right now you can go get the same exact Mach-E that I bought a year ago for $43,000 it looks like.
00:07:35
Speaker
which I was at about 50,000 I paid for mine. So that's roughly, you know, a grand difference for the same price that I got my Machi all go drive select. I could go get a brand new GT version of that same car right now.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yep, it's just hard. Yeah. I know. I mean, that's what same thing happened with my the model wise to I mean, I bought it at the top and then, you know, Elon dropped the price substantially, like, you know, getting grand overnight, basically, that hurt that stung. So I feel like it's a trickle down effect that we're seeing right now across the board for all sizes for manufacturers, especially Ford. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:16
Speaker
No, Mike, I don't want to rip any too much. I just missed you. I hope you feel the love. Hope you feel the love.
Tesla Adapter Developments
00:08:21
Speaker
I felt like you were giving me a hug as you were ripping me apart there. That was like, oh, I didn't see you for a while there, buddy. Thanks. Thanks for the compliments. You're welcome.
00:08:31
Speaker
Tom, really quick, any updates on your Tesla adapter for your Mach-E? I know Ford is one of the first ones. Have you heard anything about this? I have seen leaked prototype images floating across the internet, but I have heard nothing official from Ford. So I don't think there's anything out there yet that's going to be definitive on what we're going to see or when we're going to get it. But between leaked images of the adapter and some software updates being pushed out to select vehicles, that's the most that I've seen so far.
00:09:00
Speaker
Interesting. When you get it, I can't wait
EV Ownership Challenges
00:09:02
Speaker
to try it. And I want to try it maybe on my EV6, but I don't think it will work. I think to your point, it has to be a software and a hardware, like adapter. I don't think you need to use an adapter.
00:09:11
Speaker
If you're listening to the plug in for more podcast, if you're looking for information on electric vehicles, electric vehicles, components or information on how to reduce your carbon footprint, look no further than evuniverse.com evuniverse.com is your one stop shop for all things related to electric vehicle.
00:09:31
Speaker
So, Brian, what I want to know is what happened over the last few days. We received some text messages from you frantically upset about your car not working. It was stalled or dead on the side of the road. You were out of town, your wife, very upset with you for many different things. But in particular, this car not working. So, KEV-6, dead on the side of the road.
00:09:54
Speaker
What happened? Yeah, it's a good one. So, um, my wife might want to join us for this episode. We'll see. Um, she has strong opinions. I, uh, I left her at the EV six and I went away on a work trip, happened to be in Florida. And I get a, I get a video from her Sunday after I land of luckily it was at her sister's house, but it was the dreaded 12 volt battery warning. It's very common for some reason right now with the EV six is.
00:10:23
Speaker
and other EVs too. The car is a 2022, has 31,000 miles on it, and all the forms were warning, like right around this time is when your battery's gonna die. So I was hoping I would be the only one that didn't have this issue, but yeah, she sent me the video and asked what to do. And really, you can't do much when the 12-volt dies like this. There is no warning. The 12-volt was just dead.
00:10:49
Speaker
Before we, before we tell more of the story, I always, when I, when I bring this up, the number one question I always get is like, why does your, why does your EV, which has a massive battery
00:11:00
Speaker
a 90 kilowatt plus battery, why does it have a 12 volt battery? So Tom, my question for you is, why does an EV have this stupid 12 volt little battery when it has this massive 90 plus kilowatt battery that actually drives a
First Responder Concerns with EVs
00:11:14
Speaker
car? Why do EVs have these stupid little 12 volt batteries? I think there's a couple different reasons we could point out, but the biggest part of it is that your main battery for your EV is harnessing so much power. It's a ridiculous amount of power to make it go down the road.
00:11:29
Speaker
that much power isn't necessary to power your radio, to power your ECU, and all these other little smaller electronics within your vehicle, which traditionally have been operated by a 12-volt battery system. So you've got this traditional system, which is kind of like a legacy idea where all the manufacturers in and around the automotive industry know how to make parts and components that function on a 12-volt system.
00:11:53
Speaker
Frankly, I don't think we want 800 volts coming through your radio. I mean, that's not safe for anybody. So that's the big reason why is an adaptability to how it's always been done. And also, the amount of power that's required to push that car down the road needs an enormous jolt of lightning to make it happen. That makes sense. And kind of in your past life when you were a first responder police officer, I know 10 years ago when EVs first came out, people were really worried
00:12:22
Speaker
about like the jaws of life and cutting through cables and stuff. So how do you feel like our first responders still kind of worried about EVs when they see them crashed or is it less of a thing? I think there's still going to be a fear and hesitancy around it just because of a stigma that has been applied to those cars. And a lot of it is just not knowing and not understanding because for all we know and some of the horror stories that have been told to first responders is that if you don't know what happens inside of that car during a crash, you don't know where
00:12:50
Speaker
these high voltage lines are running and what if god forbid one of these high voltage lines were to be pierced by a sheet of metal that was damaged in the crash, now that whole car is electrified. And I think there's a belief that there's far more of those high voltage lines running through a car than there really is.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah. So that makes sense too though. You know, the 12 volts powering the windows and the door locks and the radio, less of a, less concern in the event of a crash or safety versus you're, you're running through the whole battery through the car. That makes sense. I said, I would like to hear from friend of the show, Renee on her feelings about the failure of her global battery. I think, uh, let's have the, let's have this from the horse's mouth. She was the one with the car. So she's the one that broke it. She broke it.
00:13:44
Speaker
If you're gonna be sassy at least put your mouth closer to the mic so we can hear you
00:13:47
Speaker
Mm, I'm not sassy. It's all facts. Sassy facts. Hi Rene, how are you? I'm so well, how are you? Doing well. You should probably just ask me a simple yet loaded question like, Rene, after having an EV for two years, how do you feel about being an EV owner? So Rene, after having owned an EV for two years, how are you feeling about it? You know, I was nervous about getting an EV. That was not my choice. Got the EV.
00:14:18
Speaker
Kia six I Did fall in love with it. It's all good. I love driving the car I love I hate driving gas-powered vehicles now after driving an EV They're a lot more smooth the EV is They're fast, which is awesome Best part of course is not having to fill up with gas ever That's amazing.
Lessons on Towing and 12-volt Battery Issues
00:14:41
Speaker
Don't ever want to have to do that again. So there are so many positives. I
00:14:45
Speaker
I still think they have a long ways to go for the fact of being Renee, you've only owned an Evie for two years. You have like a really good car still. How many miles does it have on it? 31,000 miles. It's not that bad. Why did it have to be towed as this brand new vehicle? Um, I think that's really lame. And so when it's like battery fault, like get it together, what,
00:15:13
Speaker
I don't even have words for that. On top of that, this is not an ED fault. I think it's a functionality of our country fault. We need more charging stations. We need more charging stations that actually work. And you can't take it on long road trips. You can. It's not as easy. You have to plan. You can't go fast because your husband's yelling at you that you're using up all the charge.
00:15:37
Speaker
And you still have X amount of miles to get to before you're at the next charging station. And that's just dumb. Like, why have a vehicle that can go so fast and it feels so good and you can't use it? And again, I don't think that's the vehicle's fault. It's actually having more
00:15:54
Speaker
Well, we're in Michigan, so maybe that's a problem. Otherwise, other places probably have it. So that's dumb. I don't like the fact that, okay, we have charging stations sporadically, but now we have to pay to get another contraption because most of the charging stations aren't for whatever he is. They're all for Teslas still.
00:16:16
Speaker
So that's kind of lame there. So you have to pay for another extra thing. Learn all about that. There's a huge learning curve. I don't have time to learn all this stuff about the cars. And if you do, and you're into that, that's pretty sweet. For me, I could care less. Just like, I want to get in the car and go. And you have to find out all this information about this car to get in the car and go. And then, what was my other complaint? Well, I was just hoping that we could get to why you let the 12-volt battery go down.
00:16:45
Speaker
I did not let the 12 volt battery go dead. It shouldn't have. And that's the other, it's so stupid. Why is this car? I don't know, just get it together. I shouldn't have to have towed this car. What if I was in the middle of a Target parking lot and this happened and you have to get it towed? What if I didn't have any friends and they can't come and get me? I know you have more to say that I get it. I opened myself up for that one.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, you did. That's not bad enough. Okay, fine. I don't even know what's up with the 12 votes, but I keep hearing they're faultier. Okay, fine. Go and get it replaced. Yay, cool. I'm going to get the car back. Try to go get the car back and it happens again. Yeah. I've only had my gas car towed a couple of times.
00:17:32
Speaker
Oh, oh, don't even because that's another thing he said. It's like it's just like having a guest car towed. I'm like, I've never had a guest car towed. Oh, so what do you have? Like I'm 40. I've never had a guest car towed. You are very privileged. What you have, Tom? Oh, yes. No, you have not. You're lying. I feel like you're both very biased right now. So Mike has been a part of another vehicle that I used to have where we had to push it to start it.
00:18:01
Speaker
Like on Front Street in Traverse City. How old was it? 1979. It only, I mean, it only had like 300,000 miles on it, but it's not the point. All right. I want to get us back on track here a little bit. We've got an 86 now that's in the shop. And then what did we learn? Oh, so now Brian said he wanted to take it over. I don't know why it happened, but it happened again and we still don't have it. It's been a week now.
00:18:28
Speaker
It doesn't work. Tell me that. Riddle me that. So this is why I made fun of Mike so much at the beginning because I knew this was going to happen. I would have so much opportunity to get her back. Get the collies back. You're going to get it. All right. So I would say three things to get back on track. If you have a 12 volt battery that's dead, you don't have to get it towed. You can do other things. You could go to the store and buy a new 12 volt battery and install it yourself.
00:18:58
Speaker
It's very easy. We also have a jump pack in the car that you can jump the battery with, but I felt like it'd be easier if my wife would just have the car towed because it's under warranty and that's what you have a warranty for. That's why we bought the Kia UV6 because it has a 10 year, a hundred thousand miles. So I would say those are two options for you. If you do have this 12 volt battery failure, which seems to be prevalent, have a jump pack in the car,
00:19:26
Speaker
It will jump the battery and it should last, I've never done this before, but it should last until you turn the car off. So it should get you to where you're going or go to any part store and get a 12-volt battery and just change it out yourself. That's possible. So this takes us to the towing of the car. We use the Kia EV roadside app.
00:19:49
Speaker
You'd think they sent someone out. They could actually figure out how to tow a car. I won't be mad. I promise. I do want to say a big shout out for the, the kivi connect app. They were awesome. They were amazing through every step of the way. That was a shining star. Okay. So I do get a text from my sister-in-law cause it's in her driveway and the tow truck driver could not figure out how to get the vehicle into neutral because the battery's dead.
00:20:15
Speaker
So I guess he tried to drag it. There's no way you're dragging that car. It's too heavy. So I get on a speakerphone with him. I was like, dude, don't you have a jump box? And he's like, yeah. Just jump the battery like a normal car and put it in neutral. So that's the second thing is if you have a dead 12-volt battery,
00:20:36
Speaker
tell the tow truck driver just simply to jump it like a normal car and you can put it in neutral. But I know that actually confuses a lot of people because I read about it all the time or hear about it. They can't figure out how to tow their car because they can't get it neutral. Have you guys ever had anything like that with any of your EVs or no?
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I haven't had to do it yet with the Roadster, but there's a bunch of procedures out there just
Future of 12-volt Systems in EVs
00:21:03
Speaker
because of the Roadster. I mean, obviously, they're a lot older kind of specialty thing. So that was one of the first things I did when I got the car is make sure I understood that procedure because it is different. So make sure you don't mess anything up. You don't have tow drivers who are just trying to gank it onto their truck, that kind of stuff.
00:21:24
Speaker
Don't want to make this sound silly, but I mean, just like any other car, when you get it, reading the owner's manual and being familiar with how to handle emergency situations is probably a good thing. So it's going to be different with an EV. And I know I can see Renee, like, shaking the head. But having access to that and making sure that you know what to do in a situation where, especially if you're in northern Michigan, you could be out.
00:21:49
Speaker
very far away from home, um, in the middle of nowhere at very cold temperatures, it'd be good to know like what your options are if things go wrong. So being prepared and be one of those people that has time to educate yourself. That's right. Exactly. So I will fast forward. They get to, they get it towed to the dealership. The dealership is really good. Text me, Hey, we test your battery. It's dead. Like it failed. We're going to put a new 12 volt in. Cool.
00:22:18
Speaker
I think it's the end of the day. I tell them I'm going to be back on Thursday. It's Monday afternoon. So I said, hey, I'll be back Thursday. I'll pick up the car around six o'clock at night. Fast forward to Thursday. I texted them, hey, I want to be a little bit late. My flight's delayed. You just leave the keys in the car. And they said, well, you know what? Actually, the battery just failed again. 12 volt is dead again. Brand new 12 volt. So.
00:22:44
Speaker
This begs the question, what is going on? Is this a 12 volt problem? Or Kia also has some recalls on the ICCU, which is the onboard charging unit. And mine was, my software was updated last August on it. But the only option at this point is for them, since it's already been upgraded, the software is to replace it.
00:23:06
Speaker
And the onboard charging unit controls the 12-volt battery charging. And so the theory is one of three. Either the ICCU itself has failed. And there's, like I said, there's a recall on this in South Korea, where ironically, the coolant that goes through the ICCU is leaking and actually damaging the ICCU itself. Hasn't happened in the US yet. There's no recall on it. But if it's happening in South Korea, it's probably happening here. So that's a possibility.
00:23:35
Speaker
Or the tech said that the charging levels in the ICCU are either not charging the 12 volt enough so it's letting it die, jumps skeptical if it's a brand new 12 volt if that's the case, or it's charging it too much and it's actually blowing up the 12 volt battery. So either way, the next step is, so if you have this problem, I'd highly recommend new 12 volt.
00:23:56
Speaker
If that fixes it, you're good. If you're new 12 volts dead, then it's probably the ICCU. So I have an ICCU on order. It should be here on Wednesday.
00:24:07
Speaker
Again, I get kudos to Kia dealership. They had a rental car waiting for me at the airport. It's when I landed. Walked out to a rental car and it was good to go. I've had relatively minor disruptions besides obviously the cars being at the dealership. That's good. Yeah. I know there's other EVs that have had trouble with 12 volts. You've owned more EVs than any of us. Any thoughts you have? None.
00:24:34
Speaker
I guess there's a reason that Tesla moved to one on the Cybertruck, the 48 volt architecture, right? So that's changing things in that realm. Tesla did also move to their lithium ion battery for the auxiliary. So that's something with the newer vehicles that they have as well.
00:24:58
Speaker
As the industry is going along, there's a lot more power that's needed from the 12 volt. So these things are not lasting as long as they used to. And that's just been kind of a well-known fact from, you know,
00:25:12
Speaker
many years ago to, I mean, now it's crazy how much computing power is going in these cars, EV or not. And so they're really need to get away from that
Tips for Handling EV Battery Failures
00:25:24
Speaker
as best they can. And I think Tesla, if you're looking at any company out there is probably doing the best job of it. And they do give a really good warning when
00:25:32
Speaker
Even on the older cars, one at 12 volts about to go, typically. I've had that happen and I had a week or so before that died. Now, of course, there's other people that had issues and they had to get them towed in similar scenarios that Renee is describing, but that wasn't as frequent, if I recall correctly. Like anything else, there's going to be bugs within industries as things change. Frankly, a lot of it has to do with just the computing power of these new cars. There's so much technology in them. Something's got to give at some point.
00:26:03
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, to your point, I have obviously had 12 volt batteries replaced in gas cars and it's the same thing. And I think there's, I think there's kind of like four main things here is I chose to go down the warranty replacement path for the EV six battery because it's under warranty and it's free. But I could, to your point, replace the battery with a aftermarket lithium ion, which would probably be better, but it's going to cost, those are like four or 500 bucks. But I know a lot of people that have done that just replaced the 12 volt.
00:26:33
Speaker
Um, or, you know, see if there's, in my case, I didn't do any of this, but I never, I never really checked the Kia connect app or any of that stuff. But I know a lot of people killing their 12 volt batteries by consistently checking the Kia app or other things. Checking, you know, I think Mike, you mentioned this on Tesla is checking the cameras, like all this stuff. Like I never do that, but.
00:26:54
Speaker
There's that option. And then the last one is maybe it's this ICCU and it's not the 12-volt batteries. It's actually a bigger problem, which I'm glad we caught. So yeah, we'll see. Gentlemen and Rene, we appreciate you being here and thanks for talking with us and explaining the downfalls of the 12-volt battery system. I'll look forward to our next conversation.
00:27:17
Speaker
Good luck, Rene. Yeah, I hope it's thanks by then. Thank you for listening to plug in for more. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, check out the one stop EV Marketplace EV universe.com. Until next time.