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Stop Chasing Cold Leads: Luke Crider's Referral & Follow-Up System That Closes More Deals
1 Plays3 seconds ago
While these sell the exact same thing, solar on the doors versus behind the screen has vast differences that most people overlook, but not Luke Crider. This episode gives us a highly specialized look at virtual sales practices and improving your team's ability to close remotely.
CLICK HERE: https://apply.solarpreneurs.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Solarpreneur Journey
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Solarpreneur Podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong. went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in the year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail.
00:00:19
Speaker
I teach you avoid the mistakes I made and bring in the top solar dogs of the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro, and closing more deals.
00:00:31
Speaker
What is a solopreneur you might ask? solopreneur is a new breed of solopro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one.
Transition to Virtual Sales: A Discussion with Luke Crider
00:00:42
Speaker
All right. Welcome back to another podcast. We've got someone that is young, hungry, crushing it in the solar game. And he's primarily doing virtual sales now after having a long stint in door to door as well. So we're going to hear all about that. Welcome to the podcast. Mr. Luke Crider, right? Crider, Luke Crider. Yeah.
00:01:02
Speaker
Crider. Okay. Appreciate it, Taylor. Yeah, man. So I appreciate you coming on. And we got you got your call center headset on. You got your ready to call customers right after this.
00:01:13
Speaker
whenever Whenever people come on with like a headset like that, I'm like, these guys are serious about calling their customers. And, and you know, they're not they're not just the average door-to door to door rep when they have I think I had set on it. So good good to see you, brother. But ah yeah, so excited to hear just about your ah transition from um door-to-door virtual now. I know a lot of people get curious about that and yeah, just your journey and know you're leading the team out there as well.
Luke's Journey from Kentucky to Kansas City
00:01:41
Speaker
So we'll dive into a bunch of topics with you here today, Luke. But yeah, do you want to give us, give the audience just your background, how how you got into solar, door-to-door and door to door and you know, transition to virtual and all that.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. i grew up in a small town in West Kentucky. Originally found out about door to door just through social media. Like some people, um I didn't have like a direct referral into it. Went out to Dallas, Texas, originally just as a setter. That was actually at Sun Tria.
00:02:08
Speaker
Um, is where I went out there with and ended up staying with them for close to four years is where I did my door-to- door to door stint at. So worked in Dallas, then moved up to, uh, to Kansas city where i built a team. We had about 20 reps, um, total in Kansas city. That was a new market for a century at the time. So it was exciting.
00:02:24
Speaker
Getting go through that process, build a team and kind of work with like the operation side and did it all in house there. And Kansas City made the transition actually to pest control just for short step. Good group of guys that I worked with wanted to go try it. So did that had a blast there. Learned a lot just about the different industries. I know everyone has their opinions on each and then made the transition now to what I do with virtual solar, which I've been with for about a year total. So yeah, it's been a fun ride getting to do a little bit of balls, getting the pros
Challenges and Trust in Virtual Sales
00:02:49
Speaker
and cons of each. So it's been exciting. hundred percent, man. Not a lot of guys have switched from to door to virtual. As we were talking before we hit record, sure, it takes a little adjustment. You know, I tried, think if anyone was in solar during COVID, then most of us were forced to go virtual for at least a little, especially in California. We weren't knocking on doors for at least a few months at the height of COVID. So, yeah, I mean, that's when I realized, like,
00:03:14
Speaker
definitely can get deals, but it does make a little more challenging. And it's adjustment not being face to face and makes a little tougher to like read the customer and get the deal right then. So yeah, what what was the transition like for you, Luke switching from um from door to door to virtual? How did that go?
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I think you you started to nail it there for a second about the biggest transition is really just the trust factor of not being there in person and having that. Like you have to be a little bit more intentional with rapport. So i think it's a good lesson for people that are in person that might take that part of the sale for granted sometimes about that. It makes you appreciate it just a little bit more. um You have to be less intentional with it.
00:03:52
Speaker
but it also shows how important it is and like retention and trust and things like that. So there definitely is ah a difference between selling the two um and how you have to go about the process. You have to be a little bit more meticulous on how you handle the sales process just because in person, you know, you're in their house. um There's a trust factor, but then also, you know, when you're selling them, you can be a little bit more hard close and and close that way. Wherever the phone, all they've got to do is click and they never see you again. um They just don't answer you. So you have to handle it
Life-Based Move to Virtual Sales
00:04:20
Speaker
a little bit more, build better relationships, um and follow up a lot more, which makes it little easier whenever I can just follow up over text, email, um on a phone call versus having to go back out to their house and and do it that way.
00:04:32
Speaker
So the closing process changes, but I think it makes me appreciate you know being able to close in person, but also being able to do it. virtually Right, right. Yeah, well, and so what made you decide to switch from door-to-door to virtual in the first place? Because, I mean, I'm sure we got some guys listening to this. They're like, you know, money's so good in door-to-door.
00:04:50
Speaker
great. um You're on business. So it's like, you know, what made you even want to switch to a virtual from door-to-door? Yeah, for me, it wasn't really intentional. I i love the door to door space for sure. And I think for someone looking to start out that's listening to this, go do the doorto- door to door.
00:05:06
Speaker
um go Go do it, whether it's pest control, solar, just just get your feet wet in it um and make sure it's with a group of guys that make you work hard. That's step one, because I think door to door is like the best building block for any career, whether you get out of sales after it, that's fine. But that's the best proving ground. Really, the transition was more just like life based, because I grew up in Kentucky, and I was having to travel quite a bit, which is completely fine at a certain age and point in my life. It just came down to me personally, it just wasn't working out for me or my team. And so a
Flexibility in Virtual Sales Work Environment
00:05:33
Speaker
lot of times when you hear the word virtual, people just associate it with life insurance or things like that. When they hear virtual sales, they don't know what's possible with solar. So it was something that was new to me too. I went through it as COVID as well.
00:05:44
Speaker
Everyone's switching to a virtual model for as long as they could hold out. It didn't work out. So they went back in person. now It was really just a life switch for me and a schedule change more so than I wanted to leave door to door. Does that make sense? Yeah, well, get that. And it's like, because I've gotten older, and I definitely see some advantages to ah virtual. Like I got three kids myself and and family and all that. So this door to door is like I'm grinding out there still. Yeah. And, you know, a lot more at mercy of these appointments out there from, at you know, like three to nine pretty much every night.
00:06:17
Speaker
Just because got to catch people when they're home. And so I definitely ah get little jealous of the lifestyle. It seems like there's a little more flexibility with that. You're probably at home more, maybe not running as many late night appointments. But yeah, would you say that's that's something that's that you've seen? Is there a little bit more like time freedom with it and you can be home more?
00:06:36
Speaker
Things like that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. i'm I'm usually never in the office. I just come here for trainings. But, you know, usually it's work from home remote. um I wouldn't say it's build your own schedule. You're still same way like you would be door to door. You know, you're at the the mercy of the homeowner's schedule
Lead Sources and Adaptability in Virtual Sales
00:06:51
Speaker
more so than your own. um But typically nine to five hours. And then you obviously cater it as...
00:06:56
Speaker
you know, you need to with different people's times and, you know, prime time still the same prime time on the phone as it is in person. You know, late night, people are home. It's the same concept. um You know you're trying to call them while they're at work. No one wants to talk then. So all the same hours that that come along with it, except you do get to block times off a little bit differently virtually. And you can also take the appointment from from anywhere. So that part does make it a little bit easier. but i would still say that like schedule wise, you're still going to find yourself working quite a bit. And then the other part of it is managing people in person versus virtually wildly different. And that's probably the biggest change between the two. and I would say it's one of the the harder parts of it for sure.
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah. OK. Well, and then let's talk about like the leads, you know, ill be knocking on doors, you're out there i'm doing the cold call on the doorstep. So are you guys doing like paid leads or you also doing like cold calls and stuff like that? Or what's what's been the typical lead source for you on the phone? Full combination of everything.
00:07:52
Speaker
um yeah A good mix, a good like healthy mix. um You can't just rely on one like lead source. So a combination of cold calls, paid leads, um You kind of divide it up. some Some are better than others, but as time goes and the market changes, it changes. so you have to be really adaptable, just like you would in person. So it's really a combination of of all different sources that you can use, where some are a little warmer than others. Some might be just a true cold call, mainly in the like Ohio and the Eastern market is where we primarily focus those at, but always growing, expanding. But you know virtually, there still has to be an in-person aspect.
00:08:25
Speaker
So it does still limit you a little bit. You can't just call, you know, wherever because there is still an install and a site survey that has to take place. So you have to be able to accommodate to that in person still while I may be virtual. Have you ever done anything like combination? Because I know that I've heard I've heard of some teams doing they have like a call center, but then they're sending guys in person to it.
00:08:45
Speaker
And I've you know, kind of like a combination with that way. Are you guys doing everything virtual? Like you're setting, setting up the appointment, doing the appointments virtual or you ever done anything like that where it's a combination? Yeah, I'm i'm familiar with the the hybrid you're talking about. So we do, but not in the sense that we ever interconnect with each other. We have a door to door team still, but then we also have a virtual team, you know, and that can help out. and the fact if you ever need some like technological help, um then go assist in the field versus, you know, being over the phone. But two completely separate groups there. um Virtually I handle the appointment set and the actual close and facilitate the management all the way through till post-install.
Commitment to Sales Methods
00:09:21
Speaker
So it's still a fully virtual process on on our end. We do the entire thing other than really the site survey and the install just over the phone with them. Now the process takes a little bit longer. You know, you're not seeing as many like same day closes and things like that that you would in person. Process sometimes a little bit
00:09:36
Speaker
more drawn out over the phone than it would be in person where you can, you know, same day set sign site survey all within two hours. Yeah, well, I don't think I've ever really seen anyone you tell me if you've seen this, but I've seen some people try to like, like, oh, I want to combine virtual with door to door. And then they're trying to like, do half calls and then maybe go and knock a little bit. you know, most of the time I've seen that it's guys that they're just like, oh, I don't want they're using it as something to just kind of like stay busy because they didn't want to be on the doors. It didn't really. And then they don't really produce doing door to door and then they don't really produce trying to do whatever virtual stuff they're doing either. And then they ah end up falling out of the industry. So that's kind of what I've seen. But I don't know. yeah Have you seen any examples where someone can like do a combination of both and have success? Has that ever worked that you've seen? Doesn't doesn't exist.
00:10:23
Speaker
Doesn't exist. You're spot on, man. If you've got guys trying to that, they're lying to you. Doesn't exist. If you're not all in on one, that's why I
Conviction and Performance in Sales
00:10:29
Speaker
was saying I don't dabble. We don't do any hybrid. None of that. You got to be all in and whenever you're doing it doesn't matter what you're doing gotta be all in so if you're in the if you're in the field you've got to be all in on it so yeah i i'm caught on there with you if someone's saying that their chances are they just don't want to put in the inputs i'm on the doors to to actually do that so no you can't be hybrid it doesn't matter what you're doing who you're working with just go all in on it and that's where you're actually gonna find success it's not going to be at the in-between marker thank you for clearing that i'm going to send that to my next guys that you try to say oh anyone that tries to do it send them you just clip it and send it over to them them there's no way it's not going to work man
00:11:02
Speaker
If you're in the field and you're trying to avoid knocking doors, I promise it's not going to fix anything. Yeah. I mean, like you said, it just goes in general because I've been in times in my solar career where even I've been, you know, out of company and things weren't great going great at the company. And then I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, I don't even know if I should put deals with this installer. Things aren't going great. And then even just having those thoughts of where I'm like kind of uncertainty, I noticed that it affects my performance. I didn't produce as good as it was.
00:11:28
Speaker
think anytime where you're like kind of like on the fence or whatever you're doing, it just makes it really hard to focus and produce at a high level. So yeah, that's just conviction at the end of the day. If you're not convicted in what you're doing, they can feel
Adjustments for Virtual Closing Techniques
00:11:40
Speaker
it. And then you feel it in your own and in your own. So it definitely does affect it. And sometimes it's not even about like selling conviction. It's about what you're talking about, where you like operations and customer experience conviction. So that's why it's good to find the right place wherever that is for you. Be convicted in what you're doing. Yeah. Well, and so let's talk about closing little bit. You know, you mentioned closing is different with virtual because it's tougher to get same days, a little bit tougher to like read the customer, I'm sure. So what adjustment being coming from door to door, switching to virtual, what are maybe some like the biggest adjustments you feel like you had to make in your closing process, if any? What's what's like the big differences you've seen?
00:12:18
Speaker
yeah and in person you know when you're sitting down on a deal and you can feel the buying temperature in in the room based on how the pitch is going you know exactly when to to strike and you kind of get a feeling after a long time where there's the pattern recognition of the deals at this point like i can feel the buying temperature to the point where it's where i want it to be um and you can feel that when you're when you're doing that in person 100 virtually you know sometimes i have it you know we try and do it over a video call is like ideal, but sometimes people won't turn on their camera, they'll do different things. And so you have to be a lot more meticulous and thoughtful about like question based selling, especially getting the right questions out of them and getting them talking because you're still going to have people just like you will in person that are a little more standoffish, they won't give you much like ammunition to sell them back on, you have to be a lot more tactical and thoughtful with when you ask the questions and why. Um, you know, the big Taylor McCarthy quote is, you know, nothing is in between and sales. Everything you say is either helping you or hurting you. And so that's like double true on the phone. When you say anything, you know, they're just hearing it. So tonality, your voice, um, all of that, you have to think a lot more on cause you don't have the body language part that you do in door to door, which is a huge part in the field is your body language.
00:13:27
Speaker
I lose that aspect on the phone, take that 50% and throw it all into my tonality. the speed of my speech and the dictation and how I say the words. You have to be a lot more meticulous
Analyzing Sales Calls for Improvement
00:13:36
Speaker
with that. Train that too. that That's a trainable skill that everyone should be doing, whether you're on the phone or in person, is focusing on the delivery of how you're saying it and how they're interpreting it and then how they're feeling when they hear it.
00:13:47
Speaker
you You have to put a lot more thought into that over the phone. Okay, that's cool. And so do you ever like, do you record your calls and ever go back and kind of do some analysis? Oh, this one didn't close. i said this just didn't work. Do you you try to record your calls and stuff like that?
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah, every consultation that I do, so every like actual set is recorded. We obviously let the homeowner know it's going to recorded. And then, you know, there's all sorts of different tools and things you can use to do that process you're talking about. And I think you you might actually use one. I know you've got a on like ah a sales coach, um AI kind of thing set up somewhere in the the link tree. um there There is stuff like that that you can you can use different tools. But absolutely, yeah you can go back and you can pinpoint different parts in your pitch to to to tailor it. So that way you're not going in guessing.
00:14:31
Speaker
You've got a reply and a word track for every way the conversation might go. When you do it enough times, you you have a pretty good idea of basically every possible scenario and what you're going to do And it's also makes a little easier to train because, you know, in the doors, you have someone shadow you. You
Consistency in the Sales Process
00:14:45
Speaker
have to take them through. That takes time where I've got recordings of exactly what it looks like, what it feels like and the exact process of what's happening. So that part, there's a slight advantage to virtually where I can just show them live recordings of exactly what's happening. Yeah, i was going to say, it seems like that would be easier because it's tough. you yeah i back about but The tool I use is Ciro. I'm sure you could use it for like virtual too. But yeah, I mean, it's so easy to just record stuff you do online, whether it's Zoom or software. What do you usually use? You use like Zoom or how do you?
00:15:16
Speaker
Teams, Microsoft Teams, typically people have used Zoom in the past, Google Meet, lot of different ways to do it. You can FaceTime the customer if you got to. is really whatever works. the The good part about it is mainly the transcript that it gives you. So it'll build you a transcript. So that way um you can cut out filler words, maybe some different lines that might not be great, like saying the word customer um a bunch or using like, you know, red words in solar. You can pinpoint them pretty easily and where those are popping up at.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause, um, I mean, yeah, I would imagine there should be no excuse to pretty much recall you you're doing with that. Cause yeah, these software is this click of the button. Um, I think just record it and then really easy to do the analysis. Um, and yeah, i think that's, So guys make the biggest improvement. um When I was doing virtual, I was I was doing ah a lot of coaching before not too much of a focus now. But remember, that's something that ah helped me a lot just recording is I was getting people on calls for our coaching program with the podcast is I would just go back and just kind of like try to figure out oh what what could I have said better at a coach that was helping me to go and break down the calls. And I made it pretty easy to just go and see, oh, I shouldn't have said this. I should have built up the problem more in this section.
00:16:31
Speaker
i rushed this, um didn't overcome this objection. So do you guys do a lot of training like that with your team? is that something you implemented and try to help your team go through their calls and make improvements? Yeah, it's a good thing. We've definitely tested different models of training and how you want to go about it. And another important part over the phone is, you know, you've got really two models. Some people do center closer. Other people just run full self gens over the phone. It's important to try and keep them with the same person for as long as you can, um because if you're pinging them from different people, all of a sudden.
00:17:03
Speaker
They don't really have a relationship with any of them. So we really try and run a self-gen model. So the same person that calls whatever lead source it is, is going to be the same person that also closes it. That's not even more so for efficiency. It's just so the customer gets the best experience possible and actually has a relationship with you. We do that. The training it is, you know,
00:17:20
Speaker
different um virtually, but it's still the same concept. We try and start them out just setting appointments for a short period, three, four weeks before. And that's more so just to learn the process of how it feels virtually. Let them go all in, self-chatting their accounts. And then you do
Managing Tech Challenges with Customers
00:17:33
Speaker
have some just true appointment setters still. The model still remains relatively the same. The ability you have to train people using you know different tools is definitely super handy to do. that you've got all the different recordings and things at your disposal. Another huge part of all virtual is I can get them a script that the homeowner can't see. so they can just sit there and read it word word for word and just read it off to them. Different ways you can take it still requires skill and practice. The homeowner has no clue they're reading off a script that's right next to their face. so Yeah. And that's probably where it comes in, like the tonality stuff. Because I mean, yeah prior you don't want to sound like you're reading a script, right? so Exactly. Yeah, you can get 10 people the same script and you have 10 different outcomes. So definitely have to train that part of it. How do you train the tonality part? Is that just listening back and realizing, oh, I sound i sound like I'm reading a script? Or how do you get guys to change their tonality and improve that? Yeah, I think anyone that's knocked with someone, you can tell them people sound super salesy. Like they use like over the top sales word, their their voice, they get super high pitched and questions like that. A lot of it is just trial by fire. pitch practice. you know You can still do pitch practice virtually. anything, it's really easy because you can do it at any time. Or you can use all the tools out there that are there for AI, like coaching, where you can you know sell like a model of someone. Taylor McCarthy had that challenge going out for a long time trying to sell Taylor McCarthy solar um virtually. He did that. that was That was fun for everybody. We all got our our hands on that. um So yeah, you can use all those different models and do the the pitch practice and things like that.
00:18:59
Speaker
But for tonality, like specifically in training it, the recordings have a lot of different ways to see actually pitch and things like that, as well as just listening back and and toning it. What part of the pitch do you want to slow it way down? And then how you want to ask questions to make sure you get the replies that you
Communication and Expectation Management
00:19:15
Speaker
want.
00:19:15
Speaker
A lot of it's really just about speed, because if you give someone a script, they might blaze through it and read through it way too fast. Problem that's different with virtual and in-person is that person's definitely multitasking. on the other end of the phone. They might be driving, they might be doing something else. You have to keep them a lot more engaged over the phone than you do whenever I can sit here and look at you at the dining room table, eight o'clock at night. So you have to you have to keep them a lot more engaged in the conversation and give them things to think about rather than just yes questions like you can kind of ask and door to door. And do you, speaking of that, if people, you know, say you have an appointment set up and someone's like driving or there, you can tell they're like at the store or something. like
00:19:56
Speaker
You're just like, hey, let's reschedule or get to a place where can talk. Or how do you handle that? If someone calls and they're like, you can tell they're just like pretty busy giving you their full attention. Yeah, I mean, you definitely run into the same problems virtually that you do in person, um except obviously they just wouldn't answer the door in person, but still run into no-shows, things like that. We use Calendly, which a lot of people use to shoot the homeowner reminders. before the appointment. So they definitely know it's coming and we set pretty firm expectations on the first call to be there for it. But 100% still happens. People are people. um And so usually the same concept as in person. You want all the decision makers on the call and you want them home.
00:20:34
Speaker
um But it's really important to prep them. So same thing that we would do when we were setting in person is, hey, you know have a notebook out, write down any questions you've got and and
Follow-Up and Referrals in Virtual Sales
00:20:43
Speaker
be ready for the call. So there's definitely some differences like preparing for the appointment. to make sure they're there. But no, you you can't do it, man. If they're driving or busy, i need them to be able to on their email. And then like the technological side of things, like handling DocuSign virtually is a whole nother ballgame of being able to walk people through that process. Because I mean, I'm sure you know how hard it can be, even in person sometimes. of technology so trying to walk them through that online is whole different whole different beast oh yeah yeah especially with ah yeah i remember during covid i mean if they were younger and like new technology it wasn't as bad but uh some like older folks trying to get open an email and go to your docusign it's like like man this is next impossible to get them done like That's one of the struggles for sure. You nailed it.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah. So it's, it's tough. How do you handle that with like someone that's not as good with technology? do you just have to be really slow with them or I don't know. screen share thing or anything we' we've tested that. and That's actually a good thought. Um, being able to do a screen share. I share my computer screen with them. What I have is a screen recording of an iPhone screen recording of an Android and of an Android and a laptop.
00:21:59
Speaker
Um, so, The goal is to get them to tell you what they're seeing on their screen and then walk them through exactly where to click and what to click. Basically just guiding
Time Management and Goal Setting
00:22:08
Speaker
them a little bit to do it. Because you know if they're on an Android and all you've ever known is an iPhone, you might have not any clue what they're seeing or what they're looking at. So being able to best help them through that process is is really key there. But it it's difficult no matter how you want to want to shake it up. It still is one of the harder parts of the job for sure. yeah Well, I like what you're saying just about trying to have put one person in contact with them, too, because I've noticed so many times where even on the project management management side, where customers get like so many different people communicating with them.
00:22:38
Speaker
i've f yeah I've had customers just like cancel because I got, you know, there's so many people involved and I'm hearing one thing from one person, different thing from another person. I can. cause frustration, lead to cancels. um I even had one last week where almost lost it. She heard from like two different people about different install dates. One person said one day, another person said another day. And then she almost just like we had to go back and she was like frustrated almost the point of cancellation just because like, why am i hearing different dates and this and that? and And I had to get after our project manager people. I'm like, hey, don't don't even contact the customers. And then I'll confirm the date with them because it's like and then she was giving them different objections because I guess she was confused that it hadn't even come up with us. I'm like, there's just like weird stuff going on with all these people contacting us. I'm like, tell tell us and then if we can relate it to the customer. But, you know, depending on the customer and just cause some headaches, if there's a lot of different people communicating. So do you guys do the same thing like project management? Do you stay in that involved, pretty involved in that too? Just trying to be the one that's the primary contact for the customer. So some of you already know that I run my own door to door sales team here in San Diego.
00:23:48
Speaker
And as we are gearing up for the summer, I realized if we do the same thing we always did, we're going to get the same results. But if I want to increase my deal flow, I need to do something different to get an advantage. Then we discovered an app called Solar Scout.
00:24:02
Speaker
But it's not a door knocking app. It's a data platform that shows us who is likely to go solar in our market. It shows us who has previously applied for solar but later canceled the deal, who has moved in recently, and even how much electricity the homes are using in a given neighborhood.
Building Customer Relationships
00:24:18
Speaker
It's been working for a lot of teams across the country, and now I'm on board too. I'm going to be one of the first to use Solar Scout in San Diego, so I decided to partner up. But I told them, hey, I'm going to talk about Solar Scout on my show, you need to give my listeners a great deal. And they did.
00:24:32
Speaker
So go to solarscout.app forward slash Taylor and book a demo with them, and you'll get 10% off your first month when you sign up. That's solarscout.app forward slash Taylor.
00:24:45
Speaker
Okay, back. to the show Yeah, yeah. The technical title we give them is account managers. Reason being is because we do manage the account all the way from appointment set all the way to install. So we definitely walk them through the full process. That's really important virtually because you don't have that in-person relationship with them. So we not only have us, but then we also have customer specialist that gets tied to every account. And so they keep them updated as well with different things like permitting and install dates and things like that. So it's kind of a two man team. That specialist is the same person who does the welcome call, though. That's nice that it's really just two relationships they have from point A to point B. Primarily, it's the sales rep, though. And it's our responsibility to get it there at the end of the day. and to set proper expectations for that. You have to be very intentional with that because same as we both face the same challenges in both worlds, in-person and virtual, is getting the panels on the roof is the only thing that matters. Making sure that the customer experience is the best part of the whole process is still most important. So like consistent contact, using emails and setting reminders to talk to people is key because sometimes install times virtually, you know, getting a site survey scheduled can sometimes be, it can just extend things a little bit. So making sure that expectations are more than clear. So that way you can actually deliver a good product to them. 100%. And what type of, so I know you guys have do a lot more follow up than a typical door to door person.
00:26:06
Speaker
Yeah. yeah um You know, ghosted appointments, people just not keeping up with me. That's just the nature of the virtual stuff, right? And so, yeah, what, ah what systems you have for follow up? And know if you're using like a CRM that has the whole, you know, like and sequences and stuff like that that go up or what's what's like some tips you can give with ah following up with people? Yeah, just general general tips here, because whether you're virtual or in person, following up is so key. There's so many people in your pipeline right now. If you go back to your last six months of knocking or whatever you're selling virtually, go back and look at that pipeline and milk it because they're not interested. Three months ago it may not be today to answer the the question as far as how we handle it virtually. It is through a CRM. um So it keeps it pretty organized as far as like lead list. what stage they're in what attempt they're on, just like you would do in person with the canvassing app, whatever you're using. know there's a plethora of them, SalesRabbit, RepCard,
00:26:58
Speaker
companies have their own internal one. you know If you're a good manager, you're not letting and a nod home or just set it nod home. You go re-knock that door the next day um and and until you get to the the homeowner. We have the the same concept here. And then at a certain point, you let off the gas on them. you know You're not just going to continue to blow that person up. You try them at different times the day, just like you would in person and different methods of contact, but it's all handled and organized to a a CRM that keeps it pretty for us. They are sequenced to ah a certain degree, but you still have to keep a personal touch with it. AI's helped tremendously with that. um that's That's been one of the huge like bonuses. um Virtual tying it with AI has definitely made us a lot more efficient. Yeah, and i think that's where the door-to-door guys drop the ball the most, I'd say, is just the follow-up. So many, ah i don't know I don't know if you were going to follow up when you were door-to-door, but It's hard in person, especially if you're doing blitz models, because you know you may be there for 10 days, but if you continue, if you you hold out in that area a little bit longer, two big things we're great at and where we succeed are following up, but then also is referrals. like The warm market is everything. Don't let one deal die at one deal. Every single deal. If you don't have a good referral program, you need to go back and you need to build one. and You need to build a sequence for what happens when those panels at the roof. I cannot tell you how many deals come from referrals. One, it's an easy sale all your life. There's no deal that's easier than a referral.
00:28:11
Speaker
It's the warmest lead you can get. i don't care how much money you spend on leads or if someone, if someone says, Hey, these people like my panels and they'd love to get, you know, sit down and talk to you about it. That close ratio has got to be over 80%. If you've got deals right now and you're trying to to close out the end part of summer strong, go back, craft a text, call them. And as long as you did the first part right and you gave them good expectations, they're going to be a happy customer. And whatever type of referral bonus you want to give them, incentivize them somehow and and milk them and and get that train rolling.
Framing the Deal and Handling Objections
00:28:42
Speaker
Yeah, love that. Yeah, I mean, any door door person listening this, I would bet, you know, nine out of 10 door to door guys don't really ask for referrals. and They don't follow up. It's just like they're on to the next one. They're knocking the next door. which is great. You know, you want to stay focused on the doors. And I've seen it the flip side to where guys are like, Oh, you know, I'm not going to go knock doors today, because try to get a bunch of referrals and try to try to follow up with a bunch of people, you know, just like we're talking about distractions. I think guys can get distracted by it. But I'm the best people it's like they have these systems built in, they're asking for their referrals. So they're able to do that to supplement their door knocking and not have a replace what they're doing. But I'm
00:29:21
Speaker
you know I know the best door-to-door guys, they're getting an extra two, three, four deals a month just from their referrals, a couple extra deals from their from the follow-ups on top of yeah their door-knocking. One of the best guys we have um at our company right now,
00:29:36
Speaker
And I thought this was really smart what he does. But um especially if you're running like set or close appointments, there's lots of like little gaps where maybe you have 20, 30 minutes where you know you're probably not going to get out and go knock a bunch of doors in 20, 30 minutes.
00:29:51
Speaker
But what you what you can do in 20, 30 minutes between your appointments is you could Yeah, you could reach out for a couple of referrals. You could send a couple of texts, even if you don't have a CRM. So I think it's just ah doing stuff like that and being smart with like those little gaps of time because an extra 20, 30 minutes asking for referrals that could easily turn into, you know, a deal if you're doing that consistently.
00:30:14
Speaker
But I know you guys probably have a way more dialed than that. And so what are some, ah yeah, what's like the best way for you to what's what's the system you have in place to get referrals and Um, what do you guys doing after the deal to get the referrals? Yeah, i think, ah I think a lot of it, whenever it comes to like the time efficiency part of it, two things. One, that's the one part I took from pest control is the hours and pest control and the hours you're, you're, those guys are working massive respect to the the entire industry over there. Um, one, if you think you're doing a lot in solar, chances are you're getting outworked by the guys in pest control hours wise. We got over there and it was like, okay, like we need to pick it up. We got humbled. um pretty quickly. One, just pick it up. Two, um and this is something i I wish I could take from virtual and instill in every single door-to-door guys. Give your your time a purpose
00:31:02
Speaker
We're great with it virtually because I've got a calendar in front of me all day. i block off time blocks for, you know, give each time a certain thing. now you don't have to be fixated on that. Leave room for flexibility. But at the same time, give each time ah ah slot, a purpose, whether that's knocking, following up referrals, knocking, closing, whatever it may be. Build out your day on a calendar. You can do it if you're door to door. I promise you can still work out in the morning. um You know, you still have time to to do those activities. block it off and be super efficient because the the best sales guys, they might not even be knocking more hours. and might just be more efficient. So kind of a combination.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah. Do you have any ah like automatic follow up or anything like that that's going out after this, after the ah install to ask for referrals? Are you guys just doing it manually yourself or anything? Yeah, um you can you can definitely do it manually. I like to keep it pretty personal. um You know, as far ass install goes, it doesn't take long between me and whatever AI I'm using to craft up a good message. um to send out to them. I have a template for every possible situation though. So I have a template for my no sales. I have a template for a no show. I have a template for an install. It's really just drag and drop. It takes, you know, five, 10 seconds max. It's not like a big time consuming task. So after every appointment, they get a follow up email, you know, with a recap of what we talked about and dates and times for everything coming up, like welcome call and site survey. But yeah, as far as following up and making sequences, you can do it if you're in the field or with whatever you're selling virtually, you can definitely set it up um and and automate the process ah whatever you know you wanted to you can even and schedule text on text message on an iPhone now you can really do it anyway just make sure it gets to them and and you're actually sending them and getting them out there and then what's the best time to ask for referrals in your experience is it right at the point of sale or is it after the install or both where do you guys should ask for referrals Yeah, it depends on the customer just slightly. Obviously, you want them really most excited at time of sale, but you have to you know keep that excitement and keep that conviction with them up until install. Realistically, the best time that customers are actually going to talk about it is if you ask for a referral,
Closing Tactics for Virtual Sales
00:33:02
Speaker
they usually won't give someone a true convicted referral until they've got that first bill. back after solar because they don't want to want to give someone something that and then it ends up like ah a double effect there so really after that system is up and running which all your system should be getting turned on and a good time that's really the best time once the system's actually up and running at that point so that's that's the ideal time
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think that's good. i mean, yeah, i've I've noticed this usually at the point of sell, there's that excitement. so a lot of times you'll get some names, but it's true. Like you're saying all the times, they're like, oh, I don't want to, but don't yeah call them. You know, don't talk to them. I see some people will be cool and and the big guy, we have whatever, call them.
00:33:43
Speaker
I think also it depends on the market because like San Diego, for example, where I'm at, pretty much everyone knows that solar is there. It's working because they see it on, you know, more than 50% of homes. Oh, yeah.
00:33:55
Speaker
In San Diego, it's like so common. So they're not really scared that it's not going to work because they've seen so many people do it already. Yeah. But, you know, probably, i don't know, markets you're working, um i would I would bet there's probably a lot less solar, so there might be that higher. Less saturated, for sure. Texas is is very similar, I'm assuming, to California. i haven't spent a lot of time out there selling. But Texas, it's definitely everywhere, too. People, it's really not explaining solar. It's why haven't you done it yet. Yeah. more so conversation. So that's how Texas is too. And you know, whenever you're doing the follow-ups in Texas and asking for referrals there, um that's where the relationship part comes in huge. Because at the end of the day, people do buy from people they like. That saying is old as time, but it's still old's true. If you give them a great experience and you're not afraid to walk away from a deal if it's not a good experience, it's not the worst idea to ask those people that you have walked away from in the past for referrals as well, just because they trust you and that you they know you'll do honest business. Good business always finds good business. As long as you stay, keep giving people good experiences, you're you're never going to burn out in this industry because the product that we've got is the best product to sell. It sells itself. and I love solar. It's the reason were talking about before. You always find your way back, man. It's got a funny way of doing it. you know I think as long as you set good expectations, people come back around, your book of business is just going to continue to grow. um I like to tell people in solar, we do have residuals. It's called my book of business. That's good. I like that.
00:35:20
Speaker
You do the job right, then people come back. yeah and people love to try and get these these solar guys away from the industry for for other industries that may offer residuals but we've got them and they're they're fat you just got to work for them a little bit but yeah so good man well before we uh start start wrapping up here luke i wanted to ask you too about um framing the deal correctly because you know when we're getting inside the home when we're running an in-person appointment sure you did similar things it's like you're telling the customer hey so what we're gonna do today is we're gonna go through a design We show you the difference, show you what the bill would have been if you guys already had the the panels up on your house.
00:35:54
Speaker
And then as long as it looks good to you, then my job is just to get the application in um so we can get the process started with you and then try to add some urgency. And the reason we're doing it is because incentives are expiring, whatever type of urgency you have.
00:36:09
Speaker
Right. And then get an agreement for them that you're going to submit an application as long as everything looks beneficial to them at the end. And so, i yeah, and I know you guys, I'm sure you do something similar over the phones, but how is it different? How do you frame the deal as you're doing these virtual appointments?
00:36:25
Speaker
What's the best way or any differences in actually like framing
Creating Urgency and Market Adaptation
00:36:28
Speaker
the deal and any tips you have on that for ah setting those expectations as you're running virtual appointments like that? Yeah, I think as far as the the closing script goes, I think they still run very similar in person versus virtual. the only The only difference what we really focus on is at the start, pre-framing the sale like you're talking about, letting them know that at the end of this call, what's going to happen before I sit here and waste an hour. Another huge part is we run credit before um the appointment even happens. And so I already know going in that that part is covered because I don't want to sit there and waste an hour on my
00:37:01
Speaker
my income producing time with someone who might just sell credit. I handle all that part in the pre-qualification process and handle that. So that way I know and in this, this is either, we're either doing this or we're not.
00:37:12
Speaker
I set it up before by giving them an expectation that this is tailored to your house. This is exactly what to expect in this call. And then make sure that on time, because over the phone, it's a little different. I'm just, if you're sitting in their house, it's still turdiest to ask about time. Like, hey, it's now still, I'm a good time for you. Obviously, if you're sitting at the dining room table with them, then you know, you just don't get up. But over the phone, over the phone, you got to make sure you got decision makers because there's nothing more annoying in person or wrote virtual with the one legger. So make sure you get the decision makers and make sure it's still good on time and then set proper expectations for the appointment. But let them sell you. Ask a couple of questions at the start, especially if you're in a market like California. You know, what are you hoping to benefit from even just by having this conversation with me? And let them give you some ammunition and just right off the start. to Let them tell you how to sell you. Use that ammunition to build up a closing argument. That's all I'm doing over the phone throughout it is is building trust and building a closing argument with some tie downs. That way at the end, I can use everything they told me and just make it a no brainer for them um and and and build it up that way. There's different ways to close. Hard closing doesn't work near as well over the phone as it does in person.
00:38:14
Speaker
um So some of those tactics you kind have to throw out the window. um And be a little bit more creative with how you want to close people. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. and And if you get pushback on the framing where they go, yeah, I don't know my wife here, you know, get all those same things in home, but sometimes they're a little bit easier to overcome in person. So how do you handle that? If people are giving you like pushback as you're trying to yeah set set the expectations over the phone? Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, relatively, it's not a huge problem at the end of the day, whoever I can get on the call, usually if they're answering it in their home, I can i can get the other person in because sometimes what you have in person is you'll have the decision maker, but the other person's in the house. They just you can't get them to come sit down, even if you directly tell them over the phone, they're a lot more comfortable to just be sitting wherever they're at, both on the phone with you. So it's not something we deal with a ton. And usually there is a true decision maker of the two. The other one just has to be on board. You know you can pre-frame that as well. you know Is there anyone else that you typically make decisions with or do you mainly handle this?
00:39:10
Speaker
And then you'll have the time where they'll tell you that. And then at the end of it, they'll bring it back up and say, well, i still want to make sure that they're OK with it. What I'm doing throughout the entire close is just pre-overcoming every objection. So I've got a spot in each section of my my script that I'm overcoming decision makers. I'm going to pre-overcome the moving objection um and then urgency. um so it's something that everyone's doing. We're building urgency.
00:39:29
Speaker
We're explaining timing and decision makers are off to start and letting them know that today we are going to sign something and we're going to move forward. For my process, I need to get them comfortable enough just to do a site survey because that's their first physical interaction with me. So, you know, a scale one to 10, how comfortable do you feel moving forward to get the site survey scheduled? You can close different ways over the phone if you hard close and they say no.
00:39:50
Speaker
And it's just a straight no. doesn't give you a lot ah lot of wiggle room. So you can get creative with soft closes. You can schedule close. There's all sorts of different ways you can kind of round it out. You just have to give yourself room to be able to loop back, reframe it, go over their objection, and then ace them at the end with ah just a different close.
Engaging Customers with Questions
00:40:07
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, can see that. how That could be an advantage you're seeing. and You know, people people get less scared by someone talking over the phone than face to face. hundred even Even yesterday I was in deal where, yeah, the wife was just being super weird and we couldn't get her to come out of the room. And I was like, oh, I make all the decisions anyways. But then, um yeah you know, of course, at the end, nine out of ten, it still comes up. Oh, even if they say I'm the one, it's still yeah like. oh, I do need to run this by my wife still. It's like, like put your pants Yeah. You run into the same stuff both ways. Some of it, you know, you can just, you can pre-overcome and try and get around it. And it really is nice whenever you you've got the script, you can go back and watch it and you can kind of start to eliminate different ending objections where I've got it narrowed down where I really get one or two at the end of every single time without fail. And at that point, it just comes down to, are they a buyer or not? It's really important in this industry
00:41:01
Speaker
to no matter what you're selling not everyone's a buyer don't beat yourself up over it you're not going to close every deal if not we'd we'd all be millionaires speaking of ah urgency so what are some ways you use to build a urgency as you're doing it over the phone does it depend on the market or anything that you're finding that works really well to build urgency yeah yeah it's definitely it's definitely slightly market dependent that's one of the big uses of ai and our email campaigns um that will send out is it's really good at tailoring you can send like a bulk email but it tailors it per person based on the city they're in um and the huge one right now is it's all over the news like it's not like we have a hard sale right now um and i know especially west coast too like the data centers are a huge talking point right now raising utility rates are all over any news article you look at you know even like cnn and fox like the the big two um doesn't matter which side of the aisle you're on there's news everywhere about utility rates So it's not a topic that people are hiding from. It's just basically explaining to them that this is the best option. So as far as urgency goes, you know, use some of those factors, but then, you know, also just, just letting them know, um you know, about the program, if they've already heard of it, you know, there is a reason why right now is the best time. um And so people that have sat down with multiple people already and still haven't bought, there's a reason behind it.
00:42:17
Speaker
If they're sitting down and they're asking even one question, they're interested, just got to be the one to push them over the edge and and get get them to like you. So that is part of urgency, being yourself with people and and you know letting them know that they can buy from you um and giving them a different process than what they felt before is is key, especially with how many people are knocking doors now and how many people are are calling these people every day, getting spam calls and things like that. So funny, people will be like, you know, this appointment we sat in yesterday, he's like, oh, I've looked into solar like eight times, never made sense. You know, they say this, isn't and he claimed he'd like looked into so many times and the exact program we were offering him. Yep. first time, like trying to ask him some questions. Oh, what didn't you like about it?
00:42:58
Speaker
And then i found out that, you know, by his answers, he was kind of just like saying that, but he couldn't really give me like specific reasons why he didn't like it or numbers they'd given him. And then I'm like, right I'm just going to run this appointment anyways. And then sure enough, we get to the end, go through the numbers like, Oh, wow.
00:43:16
Speaker
So you're telling me I don't have to pay anything out of pocket. i thought you said you'd look in this exact thing eight times. Now he's telling me now he's asking like, he's in like disbelief that's that's funny right i'm just like man it's funny i just like say stuff and then um you know i bet there's people that just like just skip this door oh yeah just we're saying this stuff and he's looked into it and so i'm like i'm glad i actually like went through it because obviously this guy was kind of just making up stuff and when he didn't even know that he could do it for out of pocket and yeah that's one of the biggest lies sales people tell themselves is that oh this is saturated whatnot and I mean, i think people are so afraid, especially closers that are so routine based are so afraid to adapt and to close. And I think it's huge. Like, i would say my true job titles, I'm just a professional problem solver at the end of the day. And these in these closes, whatever problem or or different scenario, you just got to think on your feet. And I think that's what separates like the good people from the great people um is how well and efficiently they can do that. And how well does a customer respond to it? Yeah, i definitely I definitely feel you there. Like,
00:44:18
Speaker
you know, some some homeowners are professional time wasters and, you know, some of them are are super technical. You've got got a lot of different people out there. So um just cater to them and and make sure they like you. For sure. You got to think on your feet. of these people give the craziest stuff to get you, you know, to end the call or to the next one. And then if you dig a little bit deeper, then find out that it's their point. And those are some of the questions you have to be a lot more thoughtful with over the phone that I've grown to appreciate is that part of it of like, What questions are the most efficient questions if I only have 30 seconds to get someone to open up and tell me everything about them themselves? Where in person it it is a little bit easier, but you know, I've come to find out a little bit of practice and scripting. It can do the
Encouragement and Motivation for Sales Reps
00:45:00
Speaker
same thing over the phone. Yeah. Any like go to questions you have Luke that they' they've helped a lot over the phone to you know, dig out stuff like that or any good questions? Yeah. I think if I went back to the field right now or even virtually just a key concept is people love to talk about themselves. So the the more you can dig into that topic, It also helps you sell them. So if you can figure out one, what they do for work and be super excited about it. You know, and another big one is just framing the how have you been questions. Maybe tell me something exciting that you did over the last weekend instead of just how are you doing?
00:45:31
Speaker
and That one gets overused by people on the doors all the time. i Just asking how you're doing. And they just give you a really natural like, oh, good. How are you? and That's a killer on the phone. and That doesn't advance the sale anywhere. But if you can get them to tell tell you one exciting thing they did this last week, now they actually have to think for a second. They can't just give you an autopilot response. So taking those basic questions you would ask and just adding ah a slight different layer to it where the homeowner actually has to think and give you a reply um is is really crucial. Like little things that you can do to separate yourself from the last guy in the first 30 seconds.
00:46:03
Speaker
So maybe replace how are you doing with tell me something exciting you did last week. You know replace another basic question with maybe one that tells you a little bit more about them because a career and what someone does, they're one, excited to tell you, but two, it can give you some tips on how to sell them and what type of person they might hang around and appreciate. Well, well so good, brother. And thank you for...
00:46:21
Speaker
for giving us some secrets for selling over the phone. And before I forget, if people do want to i maybe pick your brain more about the virtual stuff or ah yeah ask your questions, shoot your follow, what's the best place to get in touch with you if people want to reach out?
00:46:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah, my Instagram is probably the best spot. and You shoot me a message. It's open to everybody. It's Luke, my first name, L-U-K-E, and then dot Kreider, which is C-R-I-D-E-R. So it's just my name. Look me up. shoot me a DM. i I'll get back to him. Happen to talk about whatever industry, whatever you're selling, answer questions, bounce back and forth off of each other and and go through that process. So yeah, feel free to reach out to me.
00:46:55
Speaker
Okay. Love it, man. We'll we post that in the show notes. And then um last question, Luke, any, ah you know, we typically, I like to ask my guests this just because for me, it's it's sad to see people leave solar and give up on this when, you know, I think there's so much potential and yeah, still so much money to be made with it. So what do you tell people that are struggling or thinking of switching to insurance or whatever, is pest control, what what would you tell the rep? How do you get your ah reps that are struggling more bought into this and sold on the opportunity solar? What would you tell them? Yeah, I think getting around a a good group of people and it doesn't have to be me, just get around people that are going to push the analogy accountable is step one. But two, just so from an industry standpoint, like if you truly understand solar and the product that you're selling and the need that it's actually fixing, the only product that you can sell door to door, virtually, whatever, that is fixing a true worldwide problem right now. People are going to make the same argument for all of the industries. This is the most time sensitive. There is so much money to be made left in the industry. It's always going to adapt.
00:47:59
Speaker
It's never going to die um as far as like the the solar as a whole. When their price change happens or when incentive change happens, the market's going to always adapt. People are going to stay alive. um It's going to work and people people are going to pay the value. We've seen pest control contracts over the last two years go from 600 account value to 1200. It's doubled. People are willing to pay for something. I promise. They'll pay $1,200 for bug spray I promise they'll pay $5 less for an electric bill. yeah So it's not going anywhere. Stop convincing yourself that it's hard. It's really not. It's the only sale you can make where I don't have a customer pay anything more out of pocket. If I sell someone $50 a month pest control, that's $50 they didn't have that they're now spending. if I sell someone solar, they're not paying a penny more than what they would have beforehand. Just think of it that way. The opportunity is there. and But at the end of the day it is what you make it. If those people are having those thoughts, You know, I wish the best to them and I hope they crush it everywhere, anywhere that they go.
00:48:51
Speaker
But whatever you do, just give it 100%. If you're half in and half out, you might as well kiss it goodbye. I don't care if you're you're selling farm seed. It doesn't matter what what industry you're in. You're not going to win. So buckle down. You know, if you're on Taylor's team right now and you know, you're not getting the results you want, just up the activity. Just work so hard. It's impossible to fail. And until you make it and you'll be just fine. Well, that's so good, man. And yeah, it's funny. yeah I came from pest control, too. And yeah, when I was doing it 10 years ago.
00:49:16
Speaker
or more than 10 years ago now. But it's like we're selling these a lot of times, 89 bucks every three months quarterly. And now it's like, I see people. Crazy numbers.
00:49:26
Speaker
They're crazy. i know. I'm like, people are paying twice the price for pest control back compared to went back when I sold it. So... They'll pay it however you frame it, man. It's only expensive if you make it. Thank you for dropping the bombs, Luke. um I don't know how you can't be convicted in solar after that. But yeah, excited to see ah what the future holds holds for us coming up. and But yeah, keep
Conclusion and Promotion of Top Episodes Cheat Sheet
00:49:49
Speaker
crushing it, man. And thanks for coming on the show with us. We'll have to do it again and the future. yeah appreciate Yeah, I appreciate it. It was good talking to you, man.
00:49:57
Speaker
What's up, Solopreneurs? Hope you enjoyed the episode. Before you run out and start selling more solar yourself, wanted to let you know about an exciting new cheat sheet we created it specifically for you in mind.
00:50:10
Speaker
One of the top questions I get asked on Instagram, on Facebook, by our listeners is, Taylor, where should I start? What episodes should I listen to in the podcast? You got too many podcasts, man, because now we have over 200 episodes.
00:50:25
Speaker
So what we've done, we created the top 10 most downloaded, most listened to, and i would say widely accepted, most useful podcasts that we've done here on Solarpreneur.
00:50:38
Speaker
We put them together all in one sheet so you can go, you can hit the ground running, especially if you're new, you do not want to not have this sheet. So go download it right now. It's going to be at top10.solarpreneurs.com. Again, that's top10, the number 10,.solarpreneurs.com. Don't forget the S on solarpreneurs.
00:51:00
Speaker
We will have that in the show notes. Go download it right now. And especially if you have not listened to them, go listen to them and you can re-listen to them. That's going to show you how. So go download it and we'll see you on the other side.