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Ahead Of The Game – Steve Jeffares
307 Plays1 day ago
“I really love this industry and I love the people.”
Steve Jeffares requires no introduction for pretty much anyone working in the Australian beer world – or, for that matter, for many of the country’s beer drinkers.
Since relaunching his pub in St Kilda as The Local Taphouse back in 2008, inspired by legendary US venues like Toronado, he’s been part of the small team responsible for creating the GABS festivals and Hottest 100, as well as Stomping Ground Brewery and its multiple venues.
Last year, he struck out on his own to create a new venue with beer at its core: Huzzah opened on the former site of Deed Brewing on January 2, combining indoor beer garden, dining areas, a vast bar, pool table, darts, bocce and more.
And, while we discuss his approach to opening a hospo venue in 2026 compared to 2008 in this episode – how times have changed but how certain core principles remain the same – we also take the opportunity to pick the brains of this most experienced and creative of operators in other areas.
The chat covers the rise of vast, homogenous hospitality groups and the opportunities this opens up for smaller, indie owners, his take on the future of GABS after the 2026 festivals were cancelled, and the health of the wider craft beer industry in Australia.
Prior to welcoming Steve onto the show, we discuss James’ new position as a director of the Independent Brewers Association as well as the week’s news, including Kegstar’s fresh bid to acquire Konvoy, our new Building A Brewery series, a feature on Hawkers’ well-travelled head brewer ahead of the brewery’s 11th birthday, and the upcoming High Country Hop Technical Symposium.
Start of segments:
- 13:08 – Steve Jeffares Part 1
- 37:13 – Bowimi on Froth Distribution
- 42:48 – Steve Jeffares Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
James' Board Appointment and Industry Journey
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. Welcome back, Will. Have you been? I am great. And James, how are you? You've got this big, momentous personal and professional news to talk about. ah Yeah, I guess so. um Yeah, a few days ago, i was announced as a had a position on the board of directors for the Independent Brewers Association or IBA as most people refer to it. um Yeah, it came about a couple of weeks ago, ums conversation with Evan Craney, who we've you know you've spoken to on the podcast before. I've known him since he was had his first role in the beer industry at running low by liquor in Lilydale.
00:00:42
Speaker
um It's amazing to think, you know, we've known him so long and the guy's still like in his early mid-30s, a bit like you, I suppose, Will, but I've known him even longer. um who's now the chair of the IBA. So they have a couple of non-elected members on the board, um unskilled members I think, well, something along those lines. um So yeah, I think they were looking to, I guess, bring in some different perspectives, different, you know, um experience, I guess, you know, have been around the beer industry a long time. um So the predecessor to the CBIA, sorry the IBA was the CBIA and I'd have been involved um in covering that when it first started out, had some you know went to some meetings before it was even launched, um you know raised some thoughts on how they should be doing things back then. And we've obviously done a lot lot of stuff with the IBA, whether it's been around campaigns, reporting on their stuff, but you know I've hosted a couple of the Indies when it was online. And we've had some pretty interesting discussions over the years as well. And I think, you know, for everybody in the beer industry, you know, like for us, for a lot of breweries, for you know people out there, it's a tough time at the minute. And I think, you know keen to sort of find out what their, well, we kind of know what some of their priorities are, ah but if I can sort of get involved, offer some insights, post some questions, you know, and then yeah, we'll see how see how it pans out. I've ah been getting steadily debriefed over everything. I think i think Evan did a very good job of sort of selling it as a fairly, um you know, light touch role. And then there's been a lot of emails and phone calls and, you know, meetings to attend since then. So we'll see how we go.
00:02:09
Speaker
ah Well, it' I'm sure it will be fun. i'm sure I'm sure it sounds like everyone, well, at least once we put the story out, it seemed like everyone was excited that you're going to be a part of it. Maybe maybe people feel like they've got more of a person on the inside now or something like that.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, there's definitely, I got a lot of messages, a lot of emails, texts, you know, and sort of messages online, which are very positive. um
Kegstar's Acquisition and Industry Challenges
00:02:30
Speaker
i was thinking back to, I think, in my last sort of, you know, position of responsibility was probably captaining a junior cricket team for Kegworth in my, you know, the village my parents lived in many years ago. So very exciting to be, you know, considered worthy of some sort of responsibility again 30 years later.
00:02:47
Speaker
Well, speaking of kegs, nice little pivot there with ah one of the stories out this week with Kegstar once again buying Convoy, it seems. Well, hope hope you hoping to buy a Convoy as well. Yeah, yeah. So you you spoke to Ben Phipps from Kegstar. want tell us little bit about what's happening there? Yeah, so obviously last year the ACCC rejected that proposed acquisition and since then the sort of regime or the structure in place for mergers and acquisitions at the ACCC has changed. It changed on the 1st of January this year so those were sort of long mute mooted and and planned to take come in place and the MicroStar who owns Kegstar and the team there kind of looked at that and thought well we can have a
00:03:32
Speaker
another attempt to acquire potentially through this um importantly I think it it'll move a lot quicker than the last one that's that's sort of the point of the the new regime that things should move quicker that but the government did also say that it's you know this structure is set in place not to just allow anything to go through so whether or not they have more of a chance or less of a chance is it I think that's very unclear at the moment but I mean this is something that's been going on for a very long time convoy went into administration Early last year. Yeah, early last year. So, i you know, personally, i really feel for the teams in working for both businesses. I think it's a really, odd really tough position to be in to be working under such a cloud for such a long time. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we'll we'll get something out there on the website and through our newsletters this week. um Back to i guess, maybe staying in the world of business.
Kegland's New Venture and Collaboration
00:04:26
Speaker
Kegs, businesses with Keg in the name, or it was initially it was a town with a Keg in the name, Kegworth, but um you've been chatting to the the team at Kegland, fast growing business, supplying a lot of home brewers and a lot of other equipment to the industry who are now stepping into stepping into the world of commercial brewing.
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, i which I think a lot of people who know Kegland will know, particularly if they've picked up any equipment from there because they've laid a big slab of concrete out the front front, which will be their tap room. it's It's an interesting model. They have the brewery right at the back. They've actually purchased a large amount of the equipment from Deeds and some some stuff from Burnley Brewing. as well, two breweries that are no longer around. And so they'll have a large scale production brewery at the back and then tap room at the front to welcome people inside. We thought given um the the head brewer who's come on, Cal Fowler, is someone I've known for a while. I was chatting him about it. it Didn't just get the equipment from Burnley, but got the four brewers as well. Well, Cal actually worked at Deeds while they were in their wind down stage as well. So he came in to finish off some of those brews towards the end um when when they still had the ingredients to use.
00:05:33
Speaker
So yeah, because I've known Cal for a while, shouting to him about it and we thought having recently done a series with Steve Jeffers from Hussar about creating a venue, this would be a nice opportunity to look at what it takes to or the steps involved to open a brewery in 2026, which you you did is something you did with Boat Rocker about million years ago. yeah, yeah way before you even wrote wrote your first article for us, I reckon. And that got good traction at the time. would be Interesting to see you know what has maybe changed. in the decade plus or maybe even a decade and a half since we
Alex Lovelock's Journey and Hawkers Brewery Anniversary
00:06:04
Speaker
ran that article. um And I guess talking of Brewers, I've done a piece with ah Alex Lovelock who many in the beer industry will know, running it this week ahead of Hawkers turning 11. So whilst Alex wasn't sort of one of the founding members or owners of Hawkers, he joined the business within six months of Mazen and Joseph Abud, launching it back in 2005, 2015 sorry. years two two thousand and fifteen ago. And yeah, so he's an interesting guy. Like his main passion is music. We were chatting about Adrian Sherwood and his On You sound system and all this dub stuff on the radio earlier. Sorry, when we were chatting on the phone earlier.
00:06:43
Speaker
um He sort of done a fair bit of travel. for He worked as a chef for a while um and then got into and then he took taught for a while as well, taught sort of culinary school. and then got into brewing I think when his family came along. So his first job was at Southern Bay um and you know, made some pretty interesting beers there. So we yeah, just a chance to look at his career. Cause he sort of started at Hawker's sort of seller position and then has risen to the role of head brewer. So he's sort of been there through, I guess, a lot of change, a lot of trophies, a lot of success, but then obviously the voluntary administration, the merger last year. So thought would rub be nice to sort of get, shine a bit of a spotlight on someone who's, you know, been brewing around the scene for a while.
00:07:22
Speaker
He's a pretty interesting cat. He did his first ever public DJ set recently as well at Footscray Records. So, you know, and, you know, he's not the youngest player. Youngest brewer in the buildings. think he was pretty excited about that. So he's hoping to get a few more gigs at the Footscray Records. What's his DJ name?
00:07:42
Speaker
I don't think I asked, actually. We'll follow up and find out whether whether he has one or whether it's just alex um He might be taking you know the Adrian Sherwood approach and just like it's Alex Lovelock and here's some heavy heavy beats. And looking ahead to March, once again, we're heavily involved with High Country Hop.
High Country Hop Festival Highlights
00:08:00
Speaker
the it's It's a wonderful festival with the Technical Symposium on the Friday and then Saturday the...
00:08:06
Speaker
Beer slash music festival that it's an incredible time this year. They've expanded a little bit So Thursday afternoon they'll have a lot of hop sensory a lot a lot of the local hop growers both here and New Zealand will be there so Brewers Brewers who attend will really get a chance to do a sensory session and really explore some of those new varieties and also new season hops as well Yeah, and then and the technical symposium takes place on a Friday. They've announced the keynote speaker is going to be Jeremy Moinier from Stonebrew. We spoke to him last year for part of our HPA Aussie Hop series. um We'll see if we can nail him down for ah another sort of longer chat on the the podcast, get his take on what's going on in the USA. um and yeah we'll be no doubt emceeing much of the symposium as well. I'm not sure if we've been asked yet or not but I think it's... Well I'm saying I'm assuming that we will be. You know if we got asked back after the first couple of years then surely we get asked back after doing it quite well for once last year. um And then yeah very much look forward to that festival. I think we we land back from our trip to NZ on the Monday morning. I think we have like three nights at home before we're up to beachworth so we're having a very very hoppy march indeed going to smelling hops in my dreams i think for a very long time after that yeah exactly um so that's a lot fun hopefully we'll see a whole bunch of people up there a lot lot of familiar faces including one of the guys on the stage he played he dj'd at the crafty pint uh rebrand relaunch party at bodrighi when it was uh just uh an empty warehouse joey light bulb is uh
00:09:34
Speaker
playing on the stage up there so I look forward to seeing Mikey. um But anyway back to the present and yeah so you've mentioned the you're creating a venue series that you did with Steve Jeffers a lot of people will know from Tap House, Gabs, Hollis 100, Stomping Ground. um You still did a series following him with his latest venture Huzzah or Happy Camper if it's going to be called originally. And we figured it would be really nice time having sort of ended that series, was it last week or the week before, just to get him on for a
Steve Jeffers on New Venue and Business Evolution
00:10:00
Speaker
chat. um we know we We talk about, I guess, the creation of the business, what it's like creating a hospitality business in 2025, 2026. But also, I guess it was a really good time to get him on to reflect on things like the Gabs festivals, which he founded and then obviously sold six, seven years ago. can't remember, just said six, seven, that's for the kids. and um
00:10:22
Speaker
And also the Hollis 100. And he had some really interesting things to say on the future of both of those as well as, you know, he's he's a very um ideas, you know full of ideas guy. So he had a lot to say on on the wider industry as well. Yeah, you can tell how excited he is to have the place open, I think. And, and you know, to be sort of involved in events and things like that again and to be...
00:10:41
Speaker
Starting anew in a way with a new venue and a new space to bring people into like you you really tell like we sat and chatted to him for a very long time after the yeah Recording stopped of course. Well, that's right Well, you you actually had to head off to go down to visit keg land and I think I text you about an hour and a half later to say finally finally heading back to town But yeah, he's it's very very insightful. um He's you know He's a very smart guy and always been probably had more ideas than you could ever actually achieve um so that's coming up after the break um if you have any questions for us you can get in touch podcast at craftypint.com and we also have the survey we can post in the show notes always keen to hear what people think about the show if there's any questions you want to ask us if there's any um guests you'd like to get on so do take advantage of that podcast at craftypint.com um and before we get to steve will And if you do enjoy the show and and don't feel comfortable emailing us, you can always just like it on whatever podcast platform you have or subscribe, leave a comment. It helps other people find the show. Cheers.
00:11:41
Speaker
Cheers. We love how beer brings people together. And that's really what the Crafty Cabal is all about. It's a community of beer lovers who love discovering great breweries, supporting the people behind them and sharing a few good pints along the way.
00:11:56
Speaker
For just $99 a year, Cabal members get access to a stack of perks for some of Australia's best breweries, venues and bottle shops, plus invites to exclusive events, and 2026 is already looking mighty fine.
00:12:10
Speaker
Feb 12, get to know Shaw Brewing as they take you through a private tasting in the private dining room at the Sporting Club Hotel Brunswick. Feb 14, Peach are brewing ahead into Bench Warmer in North Melbourne for an exclusive cabal event to celebrate their sixth birthday. Feb 22 joined James from the Crafty Pine at Wildflower in Marrickville, as he hosts the Theatre of Beer featuring Wildflower and Garage Project.
00:12:38
Speaker
Plus, we have double passes to give away for the Canberra Beer and Cider Festival and cases of Holgate's new release Sour AF up for grabs. There are hundreds of deals, special releases and events rolling out across the country.
00:12:53
Speaker
If you love good beer, good people and discovering new places along the way, who would love for to join us. To find out more and to become a part of the Crafty Cabal, head to craftycabal.com.
00:13:05
Speaker
Cheers.
00:13:09
Speaker
Steve, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, guys. It's lovely to have you here.
Transformation and Vision for Huzzah
00:13:13
Speaker
Huzzah! Huzzah! I feel like just sorting your hand when you do that or is a raising the standard. It's funny, we've had lots of people here toasting and huzzah! It's a lot of fun, it's as as as it was planned to be. Even flowers out your sleeve or something like that. But yes. um but Anyway, we're seated in huzzah. How do you describe it who haven't been here yet? um Well, we don't call it a restaurant because I kind of don't want that to be too much of the focus. So I kind of describe it on our website as ah as a bar, eatery, garden. And more recently, I added the hangout because a customer said that in the first... ah
00:13:47
Speaker
A couple of customers actually said that word separately to me in the first week and a half or so. And I thought that's a great expression of what we're trying to be here. And it's also differentiated. So putting it on the website and describing it it as, among other things, a hangout kind of helps to explain what we're about as well. Okay.
00:14:03
Speaker
In terms of physically physically though, um yeah yeah a lot of people will be aware this former site Deeds. It's very different to, ah I guess, what Deeds was. do you want to, for people that aren't watching on YouTube, like explain what you what you've done done here and what people find when they get here? Well, Deeds had a stunning fit out here and I didn't want to mess with that. But what I felt there was an opportunity to do is once ah all the tanks were removed from the adjacent brewing area where we're sitting now,
00:14:28
Speaker
I felt that there was an opportunity to soften the kind of the steel um dark look of the Deeds element of the restaurant their restaurant bar. A counterpoint to that would be a lovely garden that's um like, ah if anything I've learned over the last 20 years is how much people love a beer garden. So this is about 300 square meter garden where the brewing was. We got planning to permission to open up the roof with a retractable roof. And so ah now this is the first place that feels in the venue. um
00:14:59
Speaker
People just love it. And then then they spill over into what used to be the old Deeds half. So I just feel that there's a really love, like it feels connected because of the colours that we've used, green and black, um is what it was in the existing half of the venue. And then we've got pops of orange throughout the venue, which is our brand colour as well. And it's incredibly open, but also very sectional. There's lots of sections in us as well, right? you can see all the venue almost where we're sitting, but you can kind of tuck yourself away anywhere. Yeah. Well, I guess that was one of the learning from the stomping ground venues that we created was, uh, if you put a bar, it helps if you put a bar in the middle, because then you can, you've obviously straight away, you're dividing it into effectively two areas.
00:15:38
Speaker
Um, but you're right. It's intentional here that there is probably, I would have thought seven or eight areas clearly distinct areas that are kind of connected but um also have their own benefits like we've got the bocce court right next to us here we've got the deck area we've got the pool kind of public bar corner of the area and then we've got mezzanine and bar areas as well so it doesn't feel like When we're busy on Fridays and Saturdays and Sundays already, it doesn't feel like a huge cavernous ah place. It feels like ah ah a place where people can find their own little spots. I do have to ask, do you have a retractable roof at home? Because, you know, there does seem to be commonplace in any venue you do. Uh, no, I don't, but I should maybe. Um, I, I, I just think when we first did the tap house one, which is 20 years or so ago, there weren't really many around, but I've seen them in Europe and, uh, we found a company that did them here and now they're ever present, but it's such a way. If we've got 250 people in the garden and it rains or any garden and this, when we opened the tap house, it didn't have a retractable roof. We added it later. because immediately we found well everyone wants to go to the garden roof as soon as it rains though people and if we were busy in the rest of the venue you'd lose those people and that's as an owner that's you know gutting so to try and find a way that you can uh accommodate people and this allows us to do that we could just press a button though in fact this one's got auto sensors as soon as it starts raining it closes that's right like it's like it's like marvel or one of those ones your auto windscreen wipers on the car i'm now
00:17:09
Speaker
As we talk now, it's been about a month since you opened. How's it gone? how have you know it's found It's been busier than expected. I don't think I'd ever planned to or plan it I've never planned to open in January. Obviously, I would have loved to originally opened in um probably October. That was kind of what I hoped to do. maybe towards the end of october and then you'd get a bit of a run up to november and december and and many venues can get 50 60 percent of their profit in the in the december month and i really hope to kind of be able to to tap into that but uh through various other circumstances of delays and and um planning and building all that sort of stuff it uh it just was delayed and so we missed sadly december but i needed to get the doors open so we opened the doors ah for a soft launch if you like on the second knowing that um
00:17:55
Speaker
It was the quietest month of the year. And certainly in this area, we learned subsequently as well from businesses and locals that everyone disappears for pretty much the whole month. So it's been quiet, but it's been busier than expected.
00:18:07
Speaker
um And that's been great. And the feedback and the word of mouth has been really good. And the reviews have been kind. um We're still figuring things out and will always be imperfect, but so so The response has been really, really positive and the signs are super encouraging.
Family-Friendly Innovations at Huzzah
00:18:21
Speaker
And have you, have people used the space in the way you expected it? Cause that's something you never know to do when you plan the flow of a place. It's it's been really gratifying. Like, as I said, Pete, the garden has been without question the hero. And no one will really venture into other parts of the venue of the old deeds half until this place is full. So the garden has been everything and more than I hoped it would be. i guess how people use the space, it's been probably as good, at better than I even expected because um we didn't,
00:18:51
Speaker
intentionally put a cubby house in like we've done at stomping ground venues because I didn't in some of the, in some of those venues and similar venues is that you get kids that just aren't managed, unfortunately by their parents and they run around the place and they don't make it the nicest place for some people who don't have families.
00:19:06
Speaker
and so i just thought that i i wanted to create ah create other layers of experience that's made it still family friendly but didn't kind of overtly say that you know we're a kid's playground over here so it's been very gratifying to see parents connect with their kids in other ways. So the bocce court has been really popular with parents and kids. The pool table, it's been amazing, really fun to see parents take on their kids or parents versus adults and it's, sorry, parents versus their kids or kids, they team up. It's been really fantastic. So you seeing those sort of things happen in here has been a delight. And we introduced board games, which years and years ago we had at the the Tap House. you know, lots of pubs have them, but it astounds me how popular they are. And there was a really busy Friday night week last week or two weeks ago. That's there must have been 40% of adults and kids playing board games. And that introduced it. That brings a linger time to the space as well. That kind of reinforces that hangout idea that people can come in here and just hang out for three, four, five hours.
00:20:10
Speaker
And, um, eat and drink and and connect. I guess that's the thing that I really wanted this place to be was um a place where people could maybe put down their phones for a little bit. I don't want to judge them. If that's your vibe, that's fine. But without and but subtly offering alternatives where people can connect and and have fun.
00:20:29
Speaker
And Steve, in terms of taking over the space, obviously Deeds did a lot of work to make it wonderful, but were there other things about it, like in terms of Glen Iris, the area or anything else that appealed when you thought about securing it? Listen, there were lots of things that appealed. I think ah the location, um,
00:20:46
Speaker
There's not much around here and I'm not as much as some people would be drawn to opening places on high street. if you open want If you want to open a place this sort of size, you don't find these sort of places on a high street. So I was comfortable that word of mouth would and the offer and the garden would appeal relatively quickly and word would get around. um The proximity to public transport, we've got trams, trains and buses within a minute's walk, a minute and a half at most. that appealed. um Obviously the opportunity to create a garden was the number one thing. as soon as I walked in here and I walk thought, well, we could create a really great garden in here. That would be a lovely compliment to what they had done. And the car park as well. Like we've got plans. There's a car park. It's maybe 300 square meters. That's a, we plan to do events periodically in that, that could probably get 200 people. So overall the space might accommodate
00:21:38
Speaker
five, six, seven hundred people. And so there's lots of opportunity to do events and that's kind of um what really excites me because I like to do, I want to offer what people expect in a really kind of at a high level. But where I get excited is, and once we nail down the basics and the fundamentals is is that layer of differentiation and creative kind of experience. That's that's kind of what why i get up in the morning really to to do this.
00:22:01
Speaker
Well, because I guess you've always been venues and events as well. Two things go hand in hand for you, I think. It's all just about the customer experience. I think i get i really enjoy that interface with um between beer and and the customer. And i wouldn't I'd never open, it's just not my style to or vibe to want to open a just a venue um i'm always looking at what can i do that's different so if in the case of the tap house years ago the business plan said that we want create a really good pub and bath first and foremost and then we put this layer of craft beer on top of it when no one else was really doing it
00:22:37
Speaker
and do it in a fairly serious way. serious it's Serious, but without taking ourselves seriously. With The Stomping Ground, it was like, how can we create that beer hall experience? because I'd just been living in New York 13 years ago and had this vision for creating a kind of a beer hall experience.
00:22:53
Speaker
um and then And that was largely inspired by what Gabs had become, like that beautiful beer hall in the ah r REB. But then layer on this kind of building a ah beer brand that you could see behind the glass.
00:23:05
Speaker
But then i love the opportunity of of having 20, 25 different beers that we were brewing in-house on tap for people. So it's always looking for those layers of differentiation that makes the customer...
00:23:17
Speaker
They may not even be conscious of it. It's kind of, they're just seeing it as a whole, but there's a lot of thought into creating all the layers of experience that ah affect them in the way that, in hopefully in
Diverse Beverage Offerings at Huzzah
00:23:28
Speaker
a positive way. Yeah. And you're talking of beer, you've got 44 taps here. I'm not assuming they're not all beer, but mean how how how do you decide in 2026 what you're going to pour through 44 taps? Well, I think one of the questions you'd put to me or it said we might talk about was was that was that question. and And I was thinking about how, what we did with the tap house 20 years ago and i've still got a similar sort of approach like i'm stubbornly about trying to showcase the the spectrum of beer and as as i was then obviously we've got far more opportunity uh options now there's a mate the quality's
00:24:01
Speaker
you know, risen significantly since 20 years ago. um But i'm I'm really, this place, we've got, well, we've got 44 beers, 44 taps. I think we'll, we have about 13 or 14 current beers currently on tap. And I think we'll extend that to 18 or 20, but they are across a wide spectrum and they will continue to be. In fact, we bracket them on the menu as such to try and give people some understanding of, of what to expect in the beers. So whether, like if you do do this without any level of staff training, you find that people the you're only selling the more popular styles. um
00:24:37
Speaker
So while we have the IPAs, AZs and all that sort of stuff and Pilsers and Lagers is that if we train our staff right, we can move sufficient quantities of the wildflower table beer or um other more interesting styles that we, if we don't have now, we're going to have. So it hasn't really changed. It's almost like I've come full circle. It's back to the kind of original vision of for what the Tap House could be and but and became, but maybe evolving the other elements of the experience that it's not just about the beer. Like, I'd like to think this place satisfies most beer drinkers, ah no matter how discerning you are. And we've still got fridge a fridge to come full of some pointy and stuff. um But I wanted to kind of
00:25:21
Speaker
balance it out with other offers for non-beer drinkers and people who don't want to drink at all in the in the alcohol free space particularly. yeah So you've got wines and things like that on tap?
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, we've got 13, 15 beers on tap at the moment. Then we've got six wines on tap by the glass and they're really good independent wineries that we've we've chosen. And then we've got some bottles of wine as well, which has been we've had curated with a local wine wine guy and then we've got cocktails on tap and the reason we went cocktails on tap was because i wanted to offer them in a consistent manner and it's really hard with staff to especially some younger staff you've got in that transient to deliver a consistent cocktail every time so i'd i'd seen what the guys at the arbory had done and done it so well and they've now batch
00:26:11
Speaker
these cocktails and use quality ingredients. So we decided to go down that route. So we've got six cocktails. We might extend that and they're proving super popular as well. So we're delivering them quickly, which when we get 400 people in this venue, speed is is an issue.
00:26:26
Speaker
um And so delivering those is is important consistently and timely. And then we've got a gluten-free beer from Two Bays and um and we might even expand that to another one. And then we're one of the first...
00:26:37
Speaker
breweries in Melbourne and certainly the only one Southside that has heaps normal on tap as well. Pretty much every base covered there. Yeah. And I guess one thing is we also have mid-strength stuff. So we've got, i think, three mid-strengths already at the moment, plus the alcohol-free beer. So that's, I guess, and a recognition of of, I guess, that trend in some cases, in some people, towards moderating, um or what do they call it America? Zebra striping, I think. Have you heard that expression? In America, there's this expression, I think, in the trade called zebra striping where people...
00:27:07
Speaker
who like me, cause I'm riding a motorcycle most days is you might have a regular beer, four or five, 6%. Um, but then you'd have a low or no alcohol beer and then you'd go back and you kind of switch it, which, um, I think ah people are doing more of like, I don't think it's as black as white as I'm off the beer completely. yeah Some people are, or I'm on the beer completely. I think more people are doing that alternating depending on their mood or whether they want to drive home or whatever it might be. And so. um We've got some great examples of mid-strength beers that's um that we it's important for us to have in our tap list.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yeah. and And I guess taking a step back a little bit, you talk about the tap house there and also stomping ground, mentioned Gabs as well. You know, what are the most important lessons you've learned over two decades of creating, you know, I guess,
00:27:54
Speaker
a variety of different venues, like, you know because it would have been pretty different, i'm I'm sure, going, okay, I'm to start a new venue in 2025 with all the challenges that facing hospitality, especially in Victoria and, you know, the beer industry and the wine and drinks industry.
Reflections on Hospitality Experience
00:28:05
Speaker
yeah You know, are there lessons that stayed true the whole way through or is it a completely different sort of ballgame now? For me, it pretty much feels the same. Like, you've got to get the basics right. Like, it's...
00:28:14
Speaker
I come up with a lot of ideas, sometimes sometimes myself, but I love hearing other people's ideas. And I think I've got, I'm quite good at bringing some ideas to life, whether that, wherever they come from, but ultimately you need a team of people to do it. Like I'm good in some things. I'm terrible in other ways. And so I've got a great general manager here, Troy, who I think is the best person to run the place in in the way that not only I want to do it, but he he also is a complete believer in as well. So, you know, that idea of um get surrounding yourself by people who are better at what they do than you will ever be is is is critical. um
00:28:52
Speaker
And I think just the fundamentals of hospitality, like I think uh, as I said before about the tap house is that if you create, if you aim to create a great hospitality experience, depending on the level that you want to deliver it out, but ultimately people respond to that and that can paper over other imperfections because none of us are perfect and we might be trying to improve all the time, but we're humans. Um, so I think if you're hospitable to people is that they tend to overlook, uh, or they tend to, it's less important to them that maybe the food is not perfect or the the drink doesn't have the right head or whatever it might be. So we're very much focused on and proud of the fact that we love being hospitable to people and we're trying to recruit people that support that. And I don't think that's changed. Yeah. Bringing it back to experience. yeah Yeah. I feel like, you know, there's some of the offer has changed, like craft beer is when we, I picked it up, I got into it because of simply I happened to spend some time in America and i fell in love with it then. um So it's gone through its hype days and it's very much, um,
00:29:52
Speaker
settled down and matured now as a market. So I think some of the offer has changed, but i think the fundamentals are still there and arguably people are hungrier than ever for those ah feelings of connection and and places where you can yeah connect.
00:30:06
Speaker
yeah I think it brings mind, was on the road when my folks were out last year and we're in state, visit number of places when one very lovely brewery the fit out was amazing the food was amazing the beers were great but we came away going god the people behind the bar were miserable it's like are they in the wrong job you know kind of thing i think that sort of welcoming environment ho hospitable approach can really overcome so you know you don't want to be serving dross at the end of the day but we came away and if you go back and analyze analyze everything about it everything was wonderful but uh the thing we talked about afterwards was just getting a bit of a grumpy, you know, a couple of grumpy staff members. so Passion has to drive it. Like I'm a passionate person. um I like to work with passionate people. But if you use your example and flip it yeah and go, have you been to a place that's been pretty ordinary, you pretty ordinary drinks or beers or food or whatever, but they've been really hospitable and you come out of there going, well, geez, they were friendly and you might and you might come back accepting that it's not the offer isn't perfect but the hospitality is makes you feel warm and fuzzy and i guess in this day and age where you can't risk not having someone come back because people have been so much more careful about spending where they spend their money yeah yeah you know you can't and let let anything fall by the wayside i suppose i feel like one of the challenges uh
00:31:18
Speaker
that I was kind of a step or two removed from in in in the recent years is is how critical the food offer is. is that people people ah it's not It's hard to mess up pouring ah a beer, you know, the basics, and and but if you or wine or spirit or cocktail or so, it's hard to mess that up and people don't really judge you too much on that. But food is where people, if you're going to get a bad review, nine times out of 10, it's going to be the food experience, whether it's the offer or the...
00:31:44
Speaker
you know, any number of things. And some of those might be, um you know, ridiculous observations, but most of it's kind of, there's a nugget of truth in it. And so that's that's the thing that we're every day most focused on probably is trying to deliver the food. And it's why we intentionally didn't, um, do any kind of much promotion beyond socials for the last three or four weeks until yesterday. um because we wanted to give ourselves the time to, to, to get to a good standard yeah and we've still got a way to go, but, um, that was important that we try and get that, that right. And then the broadsheet article was the first thing that we've done. Uh, and now there's a, there's a whole plan being enacted, but, um, you, you don't get a second chance too many times if the food's not up to someone's expectations. In terms of the food, is there anything, obviously you didn't design the menu just yourself, but in terms of like making sure it did work for a large capacity venue or anything. Yeah, that's a good point. When we're stomping ground, you change the direction with that quite,
00:32:48
Speaker
quickly after opening. I think, you know, you wanted to quiet go in and do something really quite different to what brewpubs were doing at the time. And I guess after a while, it was like we need to add a few more, I guess, more crowd-pleasing things to the menu. Has that sort of influenced your approach here? Yeah, like it' so that's a really good observation, and that's exactly what happened. We had a lovely chef called Paul um who ultimately came to Deeds. yeah um But, so Paul, we we wanted to offer a slightly elevated...
00:33:14
Speaker
beer kind of beer and food kind of thing without everyone's like where's the bloody chips steve and and where's that where's the schnitty and where's the palmer and all that sort of stuff and so we quickly realized that if we were going to meet what you know listen to the customer base and if we wanted to fill the place regularly we needed to pivot and um so and paul wasn't really accustomed to high volume stuff so we sadly he he left and um ultimately came to deeds where they had a similar sort of vision and i think that's um feedback as much as people love deeds and we've had many deeds fans in here many of them um is that they felt that the food offer was probably a little too elevated for what people enough people wanted in here and um so yeah we certainly set about creating a ah broad um
00:33:58
Speaker
array of or blend of kind of pub, some pub classics with some elevated gastro stuff. And then we chose to go with Pinses, which are kind of healthy Romans, healthier style pizza that originated from Rome. And, um, and then we've got some salad and health bowls and that sort of stuff. So we're trying to, you know, you can't be all things to all people, I think, but, uh, you can certainly, we've certainly aimed to create a broad offer that can meet most people's desires and expectations.
00:34:23
Speaker
And in terms of and building Hazzar, you know, with and so much experience under your belt, has it been pretty seamless compared to previous, you know, ventures or um still throwing up some surprises? Oh, definitely surprises. i But ah I love the process of building things. That's kind of one of the ways or one of the reasons I did this. And and someone...
00:34:43
Speaker
last week and they they said it's kind of like they were asking about stomping ground and me moving here and doing this and I, they said it's kind of feels like ah a band member has left a band to do a solo album. And, uh, I just thought that was really funny until we both spoke a bit more about it and we both realized that a lot of those experiments haven't worked. So fingers crossed this, this one does, but it's, um, They but they become the curio, that the you know the the deep cut, the the yeah the the fans going fine. So so that's a time will tell, but it kind of feels like that. I like to create new things and new experiences. And um I think, so while we had lots of experience of doing it, doing it solo presented, I had to kind of reignite skill sets that I either don't have or or didn't haven't used for a while. But
00:35:25
Speaker
I think the biggest challenge in this process was we found out quite late in the piece and neither the architect or the builder had were kind of fully aware of this but so Deeds had managed to operate this building under what they call i think it's a but building type 8 which is industrial use um and they because their footprint of their venue was 10% exactly funnily enough 10% of the whole footprint is that they didn't need to change the use of the building. Whereas when I came over, kind of came into the picture, we needed, we found quite late that the change of use to to class six, which is hospitality, triggered a whole wave of unexpected um issues of compliance and reporting. And over the journey, I think I hired 14 different consultants that had to provide a report at a sizable sum of money that also added time because often things weren't had to concurrent things had to happen after each other.
00:36:25
Speaker
And that that caught me by surprise, both from a time point of view and from a cost point of view. like We got there in the end, but it was probably three to four months later than I expected and a bunch of money more expensive as well. So as much as I thought, yep, this is I know how to do this.
00:36:42
Speaker
that was That was a slap in the face to say, you know what, it's, ah you know, don't get too ahead yourself. And I certainly had moments where I thought that this shouldn't be this hard to open open businesses. Not only was talking about my experience, I just think broadly is ah is how people can afford that time and and cost. um ah It could burn a lot of people.
00:37:05
Speaker
Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Cheers.
00:37:13
Speaker
Hey guys, it's Craig here and I've got a very special guest, but first I want to set this up by asking Brewers, how do you manage your field sales? Are you spending loads of time processing orders and invoices, time that could be better spent perhaps getting out there on the on the road and meeting customers, growing your business?
00:37:33
Speaker
Will the team at Boemi have a solution for you? And to tell us more about it, we're going to chat now with a Boemi client, Kale Watts. co-founder of Froth Distribution over in the yeah UK. Welcome, Cale.
00:37:45
Speaker
How are you going? Mate, stoked to have you on the on the podcast all the way from London. um while While you're based over there, your business, Froth Distribution, does have a very strong connection to Australia. Tell me more about it.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, so we set up Froth just over a couple of years ago and we did so to basically facilitate our license to produce and distribute stone and wood in the UK. So we've been slinging it in stone and wood around the around the country for over two years now and then we've also launched our own brand called Dusty's, which is an Aussie-inspired alcoholic ginger beer. So yeah, very strong Aussie connection over here in the UK for us.
00:38:23
Speaker
Fantastic. if If only we all had international distribution happening. This is great. Yeah, fantastic. ah Mate, your entire business is built around the idea then of selling beer to venues and to do that, you're using the Bohemi app and software um to help sort of turbocharge the sales teams out there. Can you tell me what brought you to Bohemi in the first place and and I guess how are the teams using it in their day-to-day?
00:38:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, for many years, um we were using very clunky setups and CRM software, um running things off spreadsheets and you know notes in our phones and in our laptops and communicating all these different kind of small nuances about what a customer wants and needs was really difficult. and We relied on a lot of WhatsApp messaging and a lot of Facebook messaging ah and a lot of memory. But we we kind of where we needed something as we were kind of growing pretty quickly to kind of have it all under the one roof. And BowieMe's app is epic because it allows us to kind of store all the customer information in the one spot, really kind of accessible in the palm of your hand. And then there's also loads of other features that are that have allowed us to kind of spend more time on the road and selling more beer.
00:39:32
Speaker
Can you give me some examples of, I guess, how does how does one of your sales reps access the app? What do they do with it on the on the on the road? Yeah, I guess the thing that drew us to Buhimi first and foremost was that it was kind of your one stop shop for all ordering and invoicing. So we jump onto, say we're out in trade, we jump onto a customer card, process an order for three or four kegs, that automatically gets sent to our 3PL, which generates a little sales order for the for delivery for the next day.
00:40:01
Speaker
That also automates into Xero for us as well. So it automatically generates an invoice which goes out at the same time. So literally taking 15 seconds to press place an order has cleared up about 10 minutes of clunky admin time, which are saves our bacon big time.
00:40:16
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. And from a CRM point of view, just I guess being able to track customers, who's who in the zoo, that kind of thing. Yeah, for sure. Cause about 90% of our business is only on trade and we all know what pubs are like. People are changing and managers are changing, staff are changing constantly.
00:40:33
Speaker
and You can't get around to all these places every week, can you? So it's nice to be able to record all your visits. And, um, but we, it has a cool setup of like a survey kind of based setup. So every time you go into a,
00:40:43
Speaker
customer, whether you're just doing an account visit or you're going in for a meeting, you can set up a personalized listed list of survey questions that you can kind of fill out during your visit or afterwards, which basically allows you to capture all the information that you need.
00:40:56
Speaker
That can then set up prompts within the app. So say you your customer says that they need to get more more glassware, you fill out the survey, it says they need glassware, and then on the next order, but we send you an alert to say, send through glassware with the keg. So there's so many awesome little kind of um knickknacks in the app which allow you to make everything so much more streamlined and and quick.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. It's often like you say, there's so many different communication channels going on, it can be hard to capture all of that in one place. Cale, what's the benefit been to Froth overall sort of in in implementing Boemi for your field sales teams?
00:41:31
Speaker
Just time and organization. Having all the information for all our customers stored in the one app has been epic for reporting as well. So, you know, you can run separate reports out of Bohemi to pull any information that you like. um It's also really easy for communication between the field sales team. So there is a lot of less WhatsApp messages flying around because you want to find something out about the venue, you can just um put jump onto their customer card and basically read through all the history of everything that we've um processed.
00:42:00
Speaker
ah for those guys. So ah the biggest benefit I'd say has been saving time, ah ah guess, especially with that invoicing and ordering kind of procedure, which has really kind of helped us out. And um yeah, saves saves on clunky communication and just being very a lot clearer about what our customers need.
00:42:16
Speaker
Well, they do say time is money, Cale. saving time, driving revenue, all those good things. Mate, thank you so much for that little insight. And for those brewers and sales managers out there tuning in, if you'd like to know more about Boemi and even book in a demo to see how it can scale your field sales, head to boemi.com. That's B-O-W-I-M-I.com. Check it out. Thank you, Cale.
00:42:42
Speaker
Cheers. Thanks, guys.
Craft Beer Market Changes Post-COVID
00:42:49
Speaker
Welcome back, Steve. It's a interesting time in craft beer. You alluded to it before there was that hype and growth period and now whatever we're in isn't that. What's your take on it at the moment? We've seen a lot of administrations, but we've also seen from a venue side, places that were specialty craft beer venues probably be less specialty craft beer venues, either they don't exist anymore, they brought other things in. Do do you have any thoughts on where it's at?
00:43:16
Speaker
ah Yeah, like I don't have my finger on the pulse as much as I perhaps used to. um but from what i what I observe, it's just, it's kind of a natural progression of of any kind of trend, I think, is that i it was super exciting up until probably, I'm going to say three or four years ago, maybe even COVID was kind of, and and that was a notable shift. um and it was a really fun time when it was kind of the most exciting thing and there were queues for this and hype about that but that's we couldn't sustain that so i think that's ah it's kind of a natural process and sadly there'll be some collateral damage in that but i think that there are still breweries that finding growth and stomping ground is growing in a healthy way um and there are others doing it as well um but you've got to kind of rethink because what worked three four five years ago simply won't work now so you either broaden your
00:44:07
Speaker
offer and that might be in in in or focus. So it might be that you're focused on beers that people actually want to drink in so large consumption. But I think the the wholesale is a real challenge. Obviously the retailers are shrinking their um the shelf space and they're also shrinking the um off uh how many breweries particularly out of their home state that they might be doing so those breweries that were kind of regional middle tier breweries i think a lot of them i think have had to shrink or not had to they've been forced to shrink a little bit back into their home markets um and then other smaller breweries that just can't in many cases get even in onto the shelf so they're all having to rethink it and then the taps
00:44:49
Speaker
is still a challenge. I think it's probably more of a challenge because my brother-in-law went into Beer Deluxe the other day and I haven't been there for ah years, but I know it had been taken over by AVC, but he went and went in there for the first time in years also, hoping to get a broad offer. And it's not, it's just the... In the last year or two, they have just pulled everything out. They don't even describe it. It's not... It's not a craft beer venue anymore. It's like that was so iconic. Yes. you know And that's really sad, but it's probably inevitability. So yeah i think what in terms of pubs is that the publican or pub owner has to really have a ah keen interest and passion for supporting independent beers.
00:45:27
Speaker
Otherwise, they'll just go with the path of least resistance. And obviously, the big guys have picked the eyes out of the best craft breweries, the independent breweries that were around. And so now, if you can go and get a Bolter, that satisfies most people or Zona Wood or a Pirate Life or whatever, or Goat even. So...
00:45:44
Speaker
It's just changed, but there's still opportunities out of that if you just if you're just creative and and think about other ways of doing it. But I think at the root of that involves broadening broadening what you're doing. As you say, um if you if you were a a craft beer specialist venue, I think you had to, had if you wanted to survive, you had to pivot and focus more on what the broad people, you could still, as I said, have that layer of craft beer, but you just got to appeal to a broader audience. um you You mentioned sort of Australian Venue Co there, you know they've got hundreds of venues across the country now, they're not the only you know hotel group on that scale. There's other, I guess, smaller but still pretty large groups coming along and often what they offer is pretty homogenized.
00:46:25
Speaker
both in terms of maybe the look and feel of the places, but certainly in terms of they only want to deal with a small number of producers. you know You've got to download an app to order. Yeah, yeah yeah and and do you think that actually offers opportunities for the likes of you and independent publicans to go, you know what, it might be hard, but if we do if we can offer a real good point of difference, yes, they've got the marketing budget. Yes, they're going to be advertising every or whatever. but do you think on the know the flip side, that actually offers an opportunity, even if the competition competition against them is bigger and
Opportunities for Independent Venues
00:46:55
Speaker
stronger?
00:46:55
Speaker
Absolutely. i think I think it's almost like big beer versus independent beer. is so it's ah It's big hospitality groups versus independent. I think that people who have ah propensity to chase independent experiences um that's the sort of opportunity that exists. And there's a number of excellent pub groups doing great things, rebirthing amazing old pubs and creating that sense of nostalgia that the big guys, just at the big hospitality groups, don't do with heart.
00:47:26
Speaker
yeah And I think that people can sense... customers can kind of sense the heart of a venue and a lot of people. So it's like, you know, mass market beer is that there's people who like mass market pub experiences, but certainly I think there are opportunities and I'm hoping to tap into that in part as well for people who want something a little less homogenized and a little more bespoken where they can have a chat to the owner. um So I definitely think there's an opportunity for it. And I think um that's certainly I'm looking to tap into to that um as well. and And the beer offer is connected to that, is that you go to an AVC pub and I went to a pub, an ac a new AVC pub not far from here. um
00:48:06
Speaker
three months or so ago with after working here and we went to have a beer there and we didn't speak to anyone. It was a Tuesday or Wednesday night, I think it was. And the only word that was spoken to us was when we got, here's your palmer and here's your schnitzel or whatever, when the plate was dropped. You couldn't go to the bar and order a drink. You had to order through QR, had to order your food through QR. You weren't greeted when you came in the door and then or said goodbye to when you left. And I, when I kind wrote the business plan for this place, that was kind of at the top of the topic. Don't do that. Do the opposite of that. And I know you've got to kind of balance labor costs and so forth, but I'm hopeful and proof will be in the pudding, but I'm hopeful that we can almost upsell people to kind of close the gap in that wage bill. So if you were sitting here and if we were sitting in that pub and someone had come around said, listen, guys, your glass is almost empty. can I get you another round? we would have probably bought another round.
00:48:54
Speaker
Or what would you like a dessert? Here's the dessert menu. So I'm hopeful that we can do that. And in here, what we're going to have, the garden area is going to be casual, order the ah order at the bar or reluctantly, I'm not a fan of QR codes, but people use them. So that's the option, two options here. But on the other side of the bar, we are going to try at dinner time service. and potentially lunch on weekends, we're going to try to have table service where we're going to try and kind of ah walk the walk, if you like, in trying to offer those sort of touch points.
00:49:24
Speaker
I was thinking back when I went into into hotel quarantine, even then people spoke to me on the way ian until i was locked in my room and spoke to me on the way out, you know, at least there's a little bit of personal touch, even even with hotel quarantine.
00:49:34
Speaker
What do you, what do you guys feel about so that? Cause I feel like the pendulum swung too much towards almost like non-touch, no touch hospitality. And I'm trying to bring it back in my little sphere of influence, but what what's your take on I find, I don't think a lot of those places have staff on, even on board with the ordering system. I went to an odd venue co-place in a regional town and the publican who had probably been at that pub over three or four different owners and a long time,
00:50:01
Speaker
trying to work out the happy hour and was like, oh, you got to download this app and you got to order it this way. And now I pour you the beer. He was losing his mind about it. He hated it. I hated it. And ended up, I think I got the beers for free or something. Cause he just couldn't handle the system. And that was the only way that you could order. Yeah, exactly. Or get the happy hour or something like that. He's like, oh, you mentioned the happy hour. We got to do it this way. And it was just like, who is this for? And most of the people in the pub as well were probably over 50 and I was like, geez, I'm I can't work it out. He can't work it out. How's anyone in here ordering a beer? I get a bit nostalgic for that hospitality experience. And when I get it, it's like a warm, fuzzy feeling. And that's what we're just, we're just trying to offer more, find more touch points of hospitality through, through what we are doing here. And as I said, we're not perfect and we're going to be continually, hopefully improving, but, um, that's what we're aspiring to offer. And I think that's what people are, the people that we're aiming for, I think respond positively to that. I do think sometimes maybe some of the bigger venues, it can be handy if you can do a QR code scan and bring up the menu, but at least have the option to go to the bar, least have people come into the table and talk into you is fine. I also find, I've found in the past where you have that sort of
00:51:12
Speaker
the phone menu that has a list of drinks that are available. but If you actually go to the bar, there's tons more. They haven they can't be able to update it. So you don't see you even know, or maybe they're told to only put these ones on there because they're the volume ones we want to shift. yeah So yeah, I mean, I understand why it came in. i think it has some uses, but yeah, it does feel like they're trying to trap you into systems just like big tech are trying to do, I guess, it yeah in a lot of ways as well. definitely has a place. I couldn't agree more. There's benefits of it, but what I hate to do is if you see- Shut everything else out. Yeah. And you and you see six people at a table all looking at their phones, looking at the menu and figuring what they're going to order or whatever it might be. And I i just hate that look. I just want people, here here's a printed your bloody phone down and talk to me. Yeah, but I don't, you know, you've got to be careful not to judge people. that You know, do what you want to do. But I'm, so without kind of overtly doing it, I'm trying, we'll we'll sit that you down with some printed menus. Every time we'll get you some glass and water and we'll tell you you can do this or that, give them the option. And um even then we'll still, if we're not so busy, we'll, our staff will come up and take an order from you. Even though we don't offer regular table service in here, if we're not busy, you guys, we'll join another round of drinks. I'll get it for you. And we are able to transact um with it, with a, you know, um at the table. So you don't have to get up at all.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. And Steve, one of the other challenging parts of craft beer at the moment has been the festival landscape, obviously co-founded GABs. It's not happening this year. what What's your take on it? And we're we're pretty brief after the Hottest 100 as well, which has had fewer entries than ever in terms of breweries and things like that. So, so where do you sort of see?
Critique and Suggestions for Gabs Festival
00:52:43
Speaker
Oh, listen, I'm not privy to the financials of, of, of Gabs in particular. Um, but, and obviously you read about festivals, the cost of putting on festivals is, is, is, um, is getting higher and in some cases prohibitively expensive. I think with Gabs, um,
00:52:59
Speaker
I feel that Gabs hasn't evolved over the last five years as the market has. There are good people in there um who who were trying their best, but I just felt that as the market changed, they really didn't do all that was necessary, not only for the brewing so brewers side of things, but also for the consumers. I would have loved to have seen a little bit more evolution of that event. And it's certainly something that when when I was in there, that was one of our KPIs for want of a better word is to what can we bring, introduce every year to to make it different. And um Craig Tiley is, I'm really a fan of what Craig Tiley has done with the AO and every year apparently he says to the team,
00:53:43
Speaker
ditch 30 or 40% of it and I want 30, 40% new experiential ideas. And that's kind of, that's the sort of way I approached ah Gabs and I don't feel that it's changed. Like the best compliment people used to give me, one or one of them was, um I come every year because it gets better every year or it's different. There's elements that are different every year. And I don't, I think that's stopped in recent years. And I think if I was in their shoes now, I'd probably go on a listening tour of fans, um, have breweries and sponsors because I hear, you know, through the grapevine, um, how breweries are responding to, to Gabs and some don't want to participate. You guys have written about that. Um, so I'd really want to understand. i think I know why, but I'd really want them to feel that they're heard and I'd want to hear how be beer fans, uh, feel and sponsors, but I don't think Gabs even
00:54:35
Speaker
re-imagined or that's not true. I think there is the potential for Gabs to to go big and, and but it it would be in a different form because those hype days are over of craft beer. I don't think it'll ever go back ah to that sort of scale and size. So you either decide the fork in the road is that we're going to shrink and but or we double down and we creatively broaden our offer audience um to get the more casual beverage drinkers, not just beer drinkers. Um, and if you all get them in the same tent, uh, you might be able to share the costs and to get more sponsors in and, um, and also then there'll be cross pollination. Wouldn't if you go and have a go in there and you love your spirits whiskeys and you try that and and then you get to try a whiskey barrel aged beer or, Uh, you like your wine and and vice versa. And cause that's one of the things I used to sit at the balcony, uh, gabs five, six thousand people on the, and it was full. You remember those days? There was there was there was a buzz in the building. um
00:55:33
Speaker
but I still wanted to appeal to a broader, we got plenty of women in there and we marketed it quite focused on, on getting more, making it female friendly, but there were lots of women who didn't come because it's not their jam, but. yeah So I was, I've ever since then, I've had like how a bit of a motivation in the same way as this venues and the Gabs should as well as how do we get people outside the bubble? Because I'm, there's no, that the bubble has shrunk. yeah So the only way you can get five, six, 7,000 people coming to a session of Gabs again,
00:56:04
Speaker
is doing something different. And so i'm I think they've got another, i hope they have another crack at it, but I think they probably, you know, I feel that they probably got only one more chance too because, um you know, and after a year's break, I think if it's not amazing next time, um you know, we may not see another one. I hope for my, because I'd love it to to continue ad infinitum. Yeah. Attention spans move on pretty quickly as well. Two years of something not happening becomes...
00:56:31
Speaker
ancient history i think the best thing we did with buying of origin was to actually keep it going when good beer week didn't yeah you know and just go well if it doesn't it was an opportunity for us as well i guess you know but it was like we definitely felt that if if you had that break then potentially wouldn't come back i have to say all the business decisions you've made over the years steve where does selling one of the country's biggest beer festivals three months before covet arrived rank well obviously the the timing was uh pure luck and um you you yeah i was right didn't have any yeah guy guy wouhan now Guy was ah very keen to to sell yeah um because it had it had burn he was burnt out. It was it was a really stressful, a not not necessarily financially, it was just it was a lot of work and we loved it and we were very passionate about and proud of it. but some Guy had you know got sick as a result of the last two events I think that we owned. and Whereas I, as is my want, I was saying to Guy, and we were looking at venues in in Los Angeles and we were looking at venues in New York and toying with the idea of doing an Asian or American version of Gabs. So not like Australia on tour. It was like, i we went to America and met a bunch of breweries who felt that the concept could potentially work in America. So I was kind of looking that way. But Guy just didn't. just stop me Guy was like, let's stop. And that didn't have the appetite for it. And then...
00:57:52
Speaker
there was an excellent offer made and um and also at the same time stomping ground was kind of going a bit crazy and and growing in quicker than we expected so it was a confluence of all those things and then we uh we said okay well let's sell it and then obviously you know guy was proven right and the time it was perfect uh inadvertently the time was perfect but um i miss i miss the opportunity to create to create experiences for beer fans at that sort of level of scale and creativity and uh you know maybe I'll find my way back into doing something like that. I've got lots of ideas, not surprisingly, but um I'm now kind of want to bed bedd this venue down and and we've got ideas beyond this venue for things as well. But um I think there's still opportunities in that space and I hope Gabs kind of finds a way to to thrive, not just survive. Um, the alternative though is kind of niche events, right? As I said, that fork in the road is go go big or go home or choose a ah niche event.
00:58:49
Speaker
Um, but I would find that hard if I was still owning Gabs to to scale down, I'd be kind of doubling down, um, trying to find a way. And I think there were ways, I think there are paths to great success, but, uh, first and foremost, you have to listen to the industry and I don't, maybe they were doing that. Yeah.
00:59:05
Speaker
But that's that's that would be the first thing I would do is i was go and actually hear what people are saying and warts and all, and then see if there's a way that we can re get get all of them on board, big and tiny breweries.
00:59:20
Speaker
and And is there a model that kind of allows us to champion all of them? Because its it really sticks in my craw that breweries don't want to participate, mainly whether it's financial or for other reasons. So find a way.
00:59:34
Speaker
Will alluded to the Hottest 100 earlier as well. I think there's probably reasons tied to the you know the cancellation of the Gabs Festivals two or three days before voting opened this year, but there was a more than 50% drop off in breweries participating.
Revamping the Hottest 100
00:59:45
Speaker
Have you had any sort of thoughts on that? Because that was something people don't know. Hottest 100 started out and at the local Taphouse. I feel like your staff and what, 100 people would have voted in the first one probably. You're loyal regulars in the early days. So you know it started off as that very small thing grew you know into this this huge beast. But you know as is retracting what are your thoughts on that uh well yeah i certainly listen obviously that it was a complete ripoff of the triple j 100 and it was the original idea was uh let's get our our customers and staffed and related people to vote for their genuine five favorite beers not not kind of what they're told to vote for and and and that would never have done that everyone does it like you know that's that's the and well i'll come to that in sec but i think that's um
01:00:30
Speaker
So, and then I would sit there on my own on on on vote day and I'd be kind of juggling Twitter and in those days and and dropping the, and it was just fun and it grew it groom and grew and grew.
01:00:42
Speaker
But ah listen, most people who know me know that I'm and not particularly a fan of what it's become now. I feel that ah ah I would have, I would change the rules, would Firstly, it may have passed its kind of useful date, so it may just wither and and die. But I think if it's it's to have any chance of um thriving into the future, I feel like you would need to make some real changes. And and i you know Guy and I disagreed on this back in the day when we owned it, and Craig also disagreed with me, is I think that... um
01:01:15
Speaker
I wouldn't allow breweries to ah ask people to vote for a particular beer. ah You could vote for our brewery and vote vote for our beers, but don't vote for this beer. And certainly don't do what increasingly breweries do is vote 54321. And then I'd probably try and bring in a blend of of expert judges. So it's a bit like, I think like on Australian Idol or one of those or Dancing with the Stars that they have. you know a public vote and they blend it with a, a, a, you know, professional vote. So whether you tie it in with the Abers or the Indies or somehow you try and get a level of quality and, and, um, like not that there's the quality, some of those brewers beers that do well are very good beers, but just to try and rein it in a little bit. So it becomes, uh,
01:02:02
Speaker
not just ah just solely who's got the biggest marketing influence and uh like i as much as i'm proud of what it's done for the breweries you my the little poll that you know created years ago is what it's done for the pirate lives of the world i'll never forget mc telling me the rocket ship that happened in large part because at the time because of their early results in the in the poll and what's um and the benefits that's uh say um mountain culture have got from it is, you know, they've leveraged it beautifully. And, uh, but I just, I would probably, if you win twice, you go into the hall of fame. And then, and that was something that Jamie Cook from ah Stonewood after they won for their third time, I think he rang me and said, Steve, Steve, Steve, here's an idea. um
01:02:47
Speaker
But to give other people a chance, why don't you kind of, um and I thought it was, I didn't think it wasn't necessarily a great idea at the time, but now I think it would be a good idea to retire, put those legends on the shelf, give other people a shot, rejig the the the format a little bit. Maybe it's just three beers instead of five, Brown Lay voting or something like that to try and make it, because I think it's almost, like feels like status quo could win it forever if uh with their skills in in marketing and and uh just they're tapping into the zeitgeist yeah and people will get people already getting a bit bored of it i think and i think another alternative been pros a lot of times over the years is that to focus on new releases but i think maybe that could have worked for a short period years ago when limited releases were going out all across the country yeah
01:03:34
Speaker
But now that people are, most people outside of a handful are only sending their limited releases and either direct to customer yeah or very limited sort of distribution, that just wouldn't work. yeah Either I don't think, you know, so it is interesting, you know, trying to work out what would be an alternative. Yeah. Like, as I said, I don't think there's a perfect way of doing it. And it depends on, you know, asked 10 people what they think it should be and you probably get 10 different answers, but.
01:03:57
Speaker
I think for me, this the way it started was, is there a way that you can get back to what are your genuine, let's say three favourite beers of the year. If we could somehow find a path back to beer fans, three favourite beers of the year, and then then you're going some way to creating something that is is genuine. But it could be limited releases, but that's why I think it'd be quite, if you can bring in a a judging element to it. so And if you tied it in with some of those awards, maybe it's the new one that's that ah Jane and and Foxy are doing is tied in somehow that some you've got giving that them having a say over it as well because they're blind tasting, of course. So wouldn't that be a great way of judging what are the hottest slash best beers um of the year in in a pretty cool way? Yeah.
01:04:42
Speaker
We'll see. Well, you alluded to it before with the car park and things like that. Obviously you still want to do events. Would they be beer events or do you think, you know, you have to do more multifaceted events, even if they're ah at a tiny scale? I think they'll be both. yeah I think they'll be both, but so I think, uh, solely beer events are going, if it's just, it depends on what the beer event is. Like I'm speaking to Richard Watkins at the moment about a great idea that so we're about to invite other breweries to participate and we're going to have, um,
01:05:12
Speaker
uh a bbbl is the working title for it which is a brewer's um bocce blitz league right and so we're going to invite probably seven or eight breweries including ben spoke and they're going to hopefully run a competition the plan will be that they run a competition to find three of their most fervent fans and they get to play in a team with the brewer um against other breweries for glory uh in a game of bocce So it's about, we might, we're going to put up probably bleachers here and we get maybe 150, 200 people in where we get all these breweries and it's a way of celebrating, like we'll have the beers on tap and you get to like, beer fans love to meet.
01:05:49
Speaker
Sounds like there should be a crafty pint in there as well, you know, yeah get almost done. And we just, and so I'm looking for, I'm looking for ways that we can create fun experiences that have a wrap around beer elements. And, um. So that's the kind of, that's when we, at the top of the page, I'm looking for ways how can we celebrate beer and open people's eyes to, to farmhouse sales or whatever, but how do we do it in a fresh way? That's not a tap takeover or like those, they make me yawn. I just, I don't see us ever doing that sort of stuff. It's like, let let's like, we're going to look at doing ah a short film night here, a short movie film night where,
01:06:25
Speaker
We're going to turn the whole car park into a cinema where we've got short films from around the world but mixed with um short films that potentially have been made by fans of beer where the short films feature their favourite brewery's beer. so And then the breweries come along, we set up a bar outside and everyone gets to try great beers and do that sort of stuff. So there will be beer events but they won't be kind of beer events as...
01:06:49
Speaker
may have been done in the past. And some of the breweries are doing really quite fun and creative events, but I think to do it as a non-brewery like Hazara is, there's opportunities to do things perhaps a little broader or different or more creative as well. So that's kind of, and then when we've got 200 or 300 people there, 400 people, it could become a big event, 500, 600 people all kind of so having celebrating great beer and having a great fun experience at the same time.
01:07:15
Speaker
Now it's very early on in the Hussar journey, but anything else you envisage ah for for for the venue or for yourself generally? Well, focus right now is just to to to of build up trade um coming out of of obviously that January period. um As I said, we're getting busier every week and we're super excited about that. But so to to give Troy, the general manager, all the support that he needs and and to try and make sure we're delivering um what we've agreed we're going to aim for. um Beyond that, we are brewing, we've got a beer here, which is Stomping Ground Brewed House Beer, which we call Hussar Neighbor Good Beer.
01:07:53
Speaker
And it's just an easy drinking draft. It's fact that the lager that won the 2024 champion modern lager at the Indies so it's a great beer and people love it it's our biggest selling beer but um i've decided to donate 50 cents from every pint to local community groups which is not unusual but when we launch our has our members program in a month or so we're going to allow um members to nominate ah a club or group that's they're connected to and then the donation donation will their donation will flow through so if it's a netball team or a scout club or whatever it is you'll nominate that in your members and so the idea being that it becomes like this the tentacles go deep into the club because they all know if they come here and they've nominated the netball club and they come here not just once twice they come here often is that i'll write them a check for two thousand dollars you know whatever like there's no limit to it so the deeper the more they support me the more i support something that
01:08:48
Speaker
matters to them. So it's not like Grilled where you go and put your bottle tops in something that three charities that you may not have, mostly don't have any connection with. This is something that is directly connected to benefit you or your family or something like that. So that's something. And then we're going to can that from next month as well. and that'll be available direct to consumer. So that's something that we're we're keen to do. And as I touched on earlier, I'm quite keen to to get involved in other aspects of the business.
01:09:13
Speaker
beer industry where my skill sets helpful like i've just been kindly asked to be part of the abas advisory group okay and i just was at that third meeting yesterday and i think they're bringing they've asked me to join to bring some creative ideas to how our asv can better engage with um uh brewers and maybe even consumers as well because i think breweries feel don't see as much value as they would like to see in winning a gold medal or a trophy or whatever. And um I think the Abers would like to... So ah so I think there's ah there's an appetite to try and find ways that a gold medal means something, means something more. And in turn, it becomes like a lovely circle where if you see there's more benefit in in becoming a gold or trophy winner is that more breweries will come back into entering their beers and...
01:10:05
Speaker
And then obviously kind of snowballs in a positive way. So any way that I can kind of get involved. You're not sitting back anytime soon anyway and just putting your feet
Innovative Plans and Community Engagement at Huzzah
01:10:15
Speaker
up. No, I really love this industry and I love the people. It's changed a lot. It's not as collegial as it used to be because there's so many people. The ticker's in full force again. The ticker's in full force now. You know, it's stressful and sometimes a bit lonely just doing this on your own. But, you know, I'm really glad and excited to be doing it. Yeah. But I'm looking for collaborators. I had a fantastic chat last night with Sophie Goldsmith, who Kiralee does work with as well. And we were just having drinks and just chatting about all the ideas that we could potentially do together. So I'm looking for collaborators that want to do cool shit and whether that's in the venue here or beyond. But anything that helps.
01:10:55
Speaker
uh industry i really really want to help and and passionate i've obviously done a bit already but i haven't lost the kind of appetite to to do cool stuff that um that people enjoy doing so as long as my child's in school with children in school ah you know i'll stay out of my wife's way and just continue to do this sort of stuff uh during the day that's great now well thanks so much welcoming us into our in the very early days and best luck with it with this and all your other plans and um yeah make care for a beer sometime soon.
01:11:25
Speaker
Thanks, guys. I love what you do. Keep it up and yeah keep waving the flag. I'm very excited about what comes next for you. Huzzah!
01:11:36
Speaker
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01:11:47
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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01:13:03
Speaker
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01:13:17
Speaker
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01:13:33
Speaker
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