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Powder Monkey Business – Dave Padden
455 Plays6 days ago
“The brewpub model has proven itself to be the right model over the last few years.”
Few people have been through as eventful a few years as Dave Padden. The founder of Akasha Brewing spearheaded a successful crowdfunding campaign in 2022 which enabled the acquisition of two new venues, only for one of them to later close overnight, followed by a period in voluntary administration, and a subsequent merger with fellow Sydney operation Wayward.
Soon afterwards, both businesses were acquired by the Powder Monkey Group, a UK-based operation whose Australian wing, headed by Southern Highlands Brewing founder Ben Twomey, now owns all of the above plus Willie the Boatman.
Confused? You’ve every reason to be, but help is at hand.
Dave is now the GM for Powder Monkey Australia, so we joined him at the soon-to-open Powder Monkey brewpub in Camden to find out how the brands are working together within the group, as well as what its founders’ goals are – both here and overseas.
We also trace his time in the beer industry, from the pioneering 77 and 777 IPAs he created at his first brewery, Riverside, to the recent roller-coaster at Akasha. And we explore his approach to brewing while seeking his thoughts on the state of the wider industry.
There was plenty for Will and James to discuss in this week’s intro too: the launch of HPA’s new hop Luna; Cheeky Monkey’s plans for a fourth venue; Loam and Voyager’s success at the 2026 Malt Cup; the launch of the Cross Keys Hotel in Newcastle; and Stoic’s acquisition of Bass Point Brewing in Shellharbour.
In fact, so much has happened in the week since our last show that we even forgot to talk about the launch of the lineup for our very own festival, Pint of Origin… Speaking of festivals, look out for a High Country Hop Technical Symposium preview with festival founder Ben Kraus midway through the show.
Start of segments:- 0:00 – Intro
- 18:55 – Dave Padden Part 1
- 38:50 – The High Country Hop Technical Symposium
- 42:16 – Dave Padden Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Crafty Pint's Weekly Schedule and Industry Developments
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and yeah, Will, here we are again. another Another week, another delightful podcast. James, we could make some Crafty Pint sweaters because there's been a lot of yarns in this last week, I reckon. There certainly has, Will. You're fired. No, no.
Corey Crooks on Beer Promotion and the Cross Keys Hotel
00:00:25
Speaker
We had sort of been, I guess, changing the the flow of the week on Crafty Pint, sort of looking to front load the week with articles and build up to the podcast and then leaving things a bit sort of quieter over the latter part of the week. But a few things came our way, um some pretty good news as well, um sort of after we recorded last week's show. so um I guess the first thing we would have put out after that was ah pretty good news out of Newcastle yeah where some of the people in the beer industry, I guess far further afield than Newcastle will know Corey Crooks um who with his wife Christy and their team over the years have been instrumental in bringing craft beer although Corey now hates the word craft beer alleg according to the article despite the fact he started Newcastle Craft Beer Week back in the day he now says it's just beer, doesn't like the phrase craft beer um But lot of people will know the grain store in Newcastle. If you've been to Newcastle and you like beer, you will have been to the grain store. And he's now finally opened the Cross Keys Hotel, this beautiful um Art Deco old pub that I think he took it over more than two years ago, I think. And I believe yeah um Neil Richardson. And has been looking for a long time. The the day Stone & Wood was bought by Lion, actually, I i called Corey to chat about it and he was buying a pub at that point. I don't know if it was this one or not, but he was making making an offer. So that was, what, that was 2021? 2021. yeah, maybe maybe it's been that long. But yeah, he's very well He's an excellent publican and supporter of independent beer. I know Neil Richardson wrote the very lovely, insightful piece, which goes well beyond, I think, you know talking about the new pub, but into more into Corey and Christie's sort of approach to hospitality. I'm pretty sure he sent that to us a couple of months before Christmas and said, I they're hoping to be open by the end of November. Then it became December. Then it became just before Christmas. And anyway, they're open now. So if you're in Newcastle in Tyshill, go and ah check out the Cross Keys Hotel. It'll be a great beer. Good service. um Yes, that was a just a nice, positive, simple, here you go Here's another good hospo person doing
Cheeky Monkey's New Taproom and Business Focus
00:02:21
Speaker
good things. Yes, and in the world of expanding HOSPO, we also have this week ah the team at Cheeky Monkey in WA will have their fourth venue. By the middle of the year, they're opening a taproom in the heart of Perth, really, in Brookfield Place or Plaza. ah So, yeah, I spoke to Brendan Day from the team. he's He's very excited about it, very insightful, Brendan. Whenever I chat to him, he talked about how they um they acquired sound a couple of years ago out of volunteer administration, which is sort of on the outskirts of Perth. Sound brewing as opposed to the concept of sound. Never put anything past cheeky monkey. yeah And, you know, he talked a lot about how...
00:03:03
Speaker
you know, a lot of breweries are going this way. They're looking to open hospitality, but they've needed to put in a director of hospitality. They've they've really professionalized the business, done a lot of stuff in-house, like they're not doing it half-heartedly. They they think you can grow their wholesale as well. They only want to be a Western Australian brewery, which, you know, he talked about how at one point they wanted to take over the world. Now they're very much not looking to do that. But yeah, just, I thought it was a really insightful chat about their plan People in WA and Perth probably already know the space to some degree because it was bar like Fayette, which very much-loved cocktail bar that's closed. But they've also taken on that and the grilled that was next to it. So it it won't look anything like a grill, but they've sort of taken over multiple spaces within this ah precinct. And, yeah, they're really excited to be bringing a slice of a southwestern WA to the centre of Perth. Yeah, there's a few people doing that. So very, very good for the beer lovers of ah of
Stoic Brewing's Expansion and Brand Focus
00:04:00
Speaker
Perth. um And I guess switching back over to the East Coast, um the South Coast of New South Wales, in fact, where we were last week, but we didn't have time to call into Stoic. But think they got in touch with us while we were still in Sydney and said they had a bit of news for us. Yeah, I'd probably follow this under a similar vein to the Cheeky Monkey story. They took over Bass Point Brewing, which is a little up the road in Shell Harbour. It had only been open for a year. that
00:04:27
Speaker
The owners had continued to work their full-time jobs, and it they sort of realised that they probably... couldn't continue doing that indefinitely. And they they said, look, we're closing. We would be, anyone wants to buy a brewery, get in touch. And Andrew Prosser and his family, they they actually did from Stoic Brewing. and Andrew said he'd long sort of looked at that area in Shell Harbor and gone,
00:04:52
Speaker
That's a pretty sizable population that doesn't have a brewery. It would probably be where Stoics should expand to. But then when Bass Point opened, they were like, ah okay, they they can have that. That's their backyard, fine. But now, yeah, there'll be Stoic Brewing, Shell Harbour as well. they He won't continue the brand. it ah Running one brand is challenging enough. to ah Two is ah more difficult. So that it will just be a Stoic Brewing tap room. But, yeah, it was great to chat to him as well. Yeah, and I guess you don't want to put too much weight on anything that happens on the the sort of the i don't know the pit that is social media these days. However, there's been a really ah ah big and you know ah widespread and so positive response to that news as well, I think. So clearly, the i think there's a lot of impression I get is there's a lot of support for Bass Point. Yeah.
00:05:38
Speaker
And much as people really loved a lot about Bass Point, they're pleased to know that the brewery is going to continue or a brewery is going to continue there. Yeah, well, that part, there's a lot of breweries on the south coast, but like that area, it is still very much dominated by clubs, ah large venues with pokies. So I think for the people in Shell Harbour, the idea of losing their brewery wouldn't have been, you know, that that's their place they go. That's their third space on a Friday afternoon on on the weekend. That would have been gone.
00:06:05
Speaker
Fortunately, not only is someone taking it over, but probably someone's taking it over who they're already familiar with. They might have already bought stock beers from bottle shops or travelled there as well. So ah fortunately, it does seem like a lot of people like, oh, well, we'll miss the brewery that was there, but great to see another like local family still running things.
Australian Maltsters' Global Recognition
00:06:22
Speaker
And I guess from the world of ah brewing and and selling beer to the the world of ingredients. um And we've done a couple of stories in recent years about Voyager craft malt success at the Malt Cup. So those aren't aware that Malt Cup is run by the Craft Malting Guild or Craft Maltsters Guild in the States. It has been for a number of years now. It's been steadily expanding, I guess, in tandem with the the fact that craft malting is a growing thing around the world. They had their biggest Number entries this year, close to 120 entries from, I think they said, five different countries. um So Voyager had picked up a couple of golds in the past. um They managed a mere silver this year. um Students say they didn't put in a huge amount of, didnt didn't didn't enter that much this year just because, you know, where they were sitting with their products. um But when I did speak to Stu last Friday, he was in typical, I guess, you know, Voyager fashion was even more excited for the news that Lone Malt Studio, um who are kind of just about formally launching now, a new operation in WA, they'd won gold in the Pilsner category, which one assumes would be one of the the busier categories and is the biggest competition for you know businesses like them anywhere in the world. um Loam, we've sort of mentioned them in a story in the past. They did a collab beer um with some other WA producers.
00:07:37
Speaker
um the The trio behind them first met at Whippersnapper Distillery over there. um Tim Hoskin is the so distiller engineer on the team. Then you've got Justin Armstrong who's come back to the family farm so he's now growing. the They want work with a lot of regen agriculture. um He's now sort of overseeing the malting and then Onky Chang, who I spoke to, and sort of more in the brand marketing background. um And so it's quite amazing really to come and take a gold medal when they're just about getting ready to go public. um They have been, you know, doing tests for a long time and they work more closely, they have been working more closely with distillers than brewers. They had done some stuff with brewers. But um I think if you want a sort of,
00:08:18
Speaker
nice little boost before you actually take yourself commercially to the market go hey we've got the best pills in the world it's pretty good and from what onki was saying like they've they've got big ambitions so you know they've put in a real high-end purpose-built facility it's designed so they can keep adding more drums over time they've got their eyes on going into the asia pacific market um sooner rather than later um which i guess you know and guess there's probably some common ground there with voyager as well like voyager i guess to an extent have really pushed the whole idea of this sort of you know craft malting and sustainable supporting sustainable sort of farming practices, but certainly others are coming through now. and Onki was involved in getting the WA Independent Malting Association off the ground. I know that's not the exact wording, but there's only's only one of them out there, so you'll find it if you go hunting, with Rex from malt last year, and all about trying to bring more diversity. And, you know, we are in a country where there is so much grain is grown. I think it's something like a third of the world's malted grain is is produced in Australia. um So, yeah, it's just good to see it sort of getting recognition on ah on a global scale, I guess.
Introduction of HPA's Luna Hop
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. You kind of wondered, uh, cause I've written a couple of those stories about Voyager. I was like, Oh God, are they just going to keep winning awards? I don't know if the others have entered before, but good good to see that they are. And just the competition growing as well. When I first spoke to Stu about the competition a couple of years ago, it was like, you know, it is a growing thing that they're kind of only just starting to get interest from maltsters in other countries. So it's also, I think just beneficial for, for beer as well, to have this competition happen in America where people from other countries are willing to enter it and have their malt assessed. i'd I'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of this competition. We did speak to Brad, the co-founder of Voyager, about how how it's sort of done as well. I'm i'm sort of fascinated by how our malt's judge judged.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah, do they spit or swallow? And I guess it's staying in the world of ingredients. There was big news on Tuesday. that i guess new hop varieties aren't released very often, particularly in Australia. There's you know there's only sort of, well, I guess when the market's dominated so much by HPA, formerly Hop Products Australia, they've just released a new hop. And I guess the the caveat that always comes with these things is that the new hop has actually been trialed in beers by brewers for more than a decade um and was first bred back in 23 years ago, i think.
00:10:31
Speaker
But the I guess the commercialization of a new hop is very rare. Eclipse would have been the last one for HPA. um You probably see it a bit more in New Zealand where there's a lot more smaller growers. um But yeah, so Luna, formerly HPA 033 was released this week. And you had a chat to some of some of the people involved. Yes, welcome to the world, Luna. Great to have you here. Brewers might have already trialled it. It has been pelletized for a little while as 033. So I spoke to Dr. Simon Widdick and Grace Irwin from HBA. ah Simon it leads their breeding program and Grace leads their marketing. ah Yeah, it's fascinating to know Grace spoke about, you know, they they feel it's on the right hop for the right time. Like ah there's sort of something about the mouthfeel and the texture that... uh luna adds to beer that um makes it work with i guess more paired back beers obviously when you talk about mango though hazy ah ipas hazy pales those kind of things come to life but also one of the interesting things is that uh simon spoke on how uh one of luna's direct parents is this hop that has led to uh what super pride uh galaxy vick secret i think like it's it's
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, they've got some pretty hard poor parents in there producing some great Holtz. And we've includ ah included a bit of a timeline and a family tree for for it in the article, and which we'll share in the show notes. But it's also accompanied by, um I guess, the start of a new mini, pop I guess, offshoot podcast series that we've done with HPA that will run probably every few weeks or every couple of months over the course of the year called The Hop Frontier.
The Hop Frontier Podcast Series
00:12:05
Speaker
um Over the course of the series we're looking at, I guess, as a cutting edge of innovation in hop technology, looking at some of the advanced hop products and figured the best way to kick it off was with you know the arrival of a new hop. And you also spoke to, as well as speaking to HPA, you spoke to one of the brewers who's been playing with it for some time. Yeah, Brightbrew Lewis Kerr. He's fortunate enough to live very close to the hop field to make beer near it. So he gets access to a lot of the experimental hops. They've released a beer coinciding with it, a hazy a single hop, hazy pale. So yeah, if you haven't heard the episode yet, we encourage you to do so. It's a good one to watch on YouTube as well. And before we get to the main guest today, here's a little taste of what Lewis had to say about the new hop variety, Luna.
00:12:47
Speaker
Internal trials, we rated it ourselves at about 8 out of 10 in terms of intensity, like a rub and sniff kind of panel in our lab. The aroma definitely hits you from the beginning, um a lot like Vic's Secret and Galaxy, but you're getting a big waft of... For me, I get grapefruit, berry and mango. um For Luna Hayes, what we really wanted...
00:13:11
Speaker
for this particular beer, we wanted Luna to pop. So we chose to brew it as a single hop beer, which can often at times be contentious. um We've laid in Luna at multiple points throughout the brew though. So we've got it in the Whirlpool. We've got a day zero dry hop and we've got another dry hop at 12 degrees. And what that's really done is layering some complexity into a single hop beer that isn't often achieved.
00:13:35
Speaker
um It's equivalent of around nine grams per liter. Um, yeah, rather than being one dimensional, like many single hops, uh, I really think the multiple edition points has helped us with this one. And we're back and on with today's guest.
Akasha Brewing's Evolution and Merger
00:13:49
Speaker
So, uh, as we've alluded to a couple of weeks ago, we were off in Sydney and Wollongong. And as soon as we landed several hours later than we planned on landing, we caught up with Dave Padden, who's the general manager of powder monkey group.
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah, probably better known to a lot of people in the beer industry is the founder of Akasha Brewing. Prior to that, he had Riverside Brewing in Parramatta. and So he's been making some banging, generally hop-forward beers for a long time. Akasha, along with Willie the Boatman, um Wayward, Southern Highlands Brewing, are now part of Powder Monkey Group's sort of Australian wing. um We've done a bit of stuff on Powder Monkey over the years. For those that don't know, It's a UK based company. Originally, they own a number of um beer brands, breweries in the UK and a couple of years ago moved over here um with sort of Ben Toomey from Southern Highlands, sort of helping bring them over here. So they're now up to five Australian brands. We caught up with Dave at what's going to become the Powder Monkey Brew Pub. It should be open. week or two after this this podcast, all being well, they were looking pretty well along with the the development of the site. Lovely old building, like literally what, 20 minutes walk from, 20 minutes, 20 meters walk from the main strip through Camden. It's definitely not an industrial brewery. It's it's basically, once it's open, it will feel like a pub almost in the middle of town, really. So so that's really interesting. Obviously, Akasha, I felt like there was a period where all I did was write about Akasha. either going up or going down or whatever uh so they had the equity crowdfund um opened the barrel room and then the edwards in newcastle which they very suddenly closed uh the brewery also had been in voluntary administration we get into that i mean we also that merged with uh wayward yeah a couple of months before joining powder monkey group so it was a really you know i guess fairly tumultuous
00:15:36
Speaker
Two or three years for Dave and the Akasha team. Yeah, and particularly for Dave as well. We touched on a little bit, but he had a number of health issues that landed him in hospital. He now has a pacemaker in and continues sort of managing that as well. Drinking less Imperial IPA and he's eating less of his beloved barbecue food, the poor bugger. Yeah, so so we touched on that too. And yeah, so enjoy the chat.
Powder Monkey Group's Strategy and Operations
00:15:58
Speaker
Well, I think as as well, especially um whilst we've done a bit writing about Powder Monkey, I don't think...
00:16:04
Speaker
too many people up so je understood what the intention was, you know, coming in and buying that many brands within one state. So it' was a really great opportunity not just to go and visit the place before it opens, but to get someone who's now the GM of the business to sort of take us through it and go, this is what we're doing here. This is what we're doing in the UK. Like they've got a place in Hong Kong. They are looking to go, you know, truly global. So um yeah, it should be a bit of insight for people who've been asking questions going, well, you know, what is what is this powder of monkey business all about? yeah Absolutely. ah We hope you enjoyed the chat as well we did. If you want to leave any feedback, you can always email us us us at podcast at craftybind.com. You can like, subscribe, comment on whatever platform you listen to the podcast on. It really helps people discover the show. So here's us with Dave. Cheers.
00:16:48
Speaker
Cheers.
00:16:50
Speaker
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00:17:05
Speaker
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00:17:46
Speaker
Entries are now open for the 2026 Melbourne Royal Australian International Beer Awards, the world's largest annual beer competition assessing both draft and package beer. Here's competition organiser Kiralee Waldhorn to tell us why you should enter your beers. Breweries should enter other the Australian International Beer Awards because it's a great opportunity to see how their beers actually stack up against the best in the world.
00:18:10
Speaker
um It's obviously the largest annual competition in the world, judging pack and draft. um And it really gives those brewers a chance to benchmark their products, gain some great insight from a really amazing expert panel of judges um and celebrate their craft, both nationally and internationally. Open to breweries and cideries of all sizes worldwide, the Melbourne Royal Australian International Beer Awards offers a fantastic opportunity to benchmark your products, gain valuable feedback and celebrate success.
00:18:42
Speaker
Entries close Friday the 13th of March. Full details at melbourneroyal.com.au forward slash beer.
00:18:55
Speaker
Dave, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. It's great to be Well, great to have you guys here. Yeah, well, it's great to be here. So we're in Camden in the south-east, south-west, sorry. Second time you got that wrong today. We did just land. do you want to tell us a little bit about where we are?
00:19:10
Speaker
yeah why Why we're here. Why we're here. Yeah. Yeah. That's how long have we got? Yeah, we are in Camden, which is um a very, very fast growing region of the MacArthur region the southwest of Sydney. um Yeah. We're looking at some, yeah, this place will be doubling in, in growth in the next few years. So it's, yeah, definitely one of those sort of pockets as Sydney gets very expensive to to live.
00:19:32
Speaker
and We're seeing the pockets like, you know, this region really starting to take off. We've got lots of new housing and pubs and venues and all sorts of things popping up around here. So, and We're now sitting in what we hope will become or what we will become the spiritual home of Powder Monkey here in Australia.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess so, obviously, you're still involved with Karsha, but the last few months you've been in a new role as the GM of the Powder Monkey Group. Do you want to tell people a little bit about what the Powder Monkey Group is and what it's becoming?
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, Powder Monkey yeah originated in the yeah UK and was the original brewery was about five years ago, started in the UK and um has over time grown and um and and become a larger group over there. So it's about, I think we're up to six breweries now.
00:20:20
Speaker
in the group in the UK and and then a couple or a few years ago now started to start their growth into Australia through working with Ben at Southern Highlands here in ah in the southern region of New South Wales um and is now in itself grown into a group of full breweries as well in Sydney including the Akasha group. so And what was the background to the guys who started Powder Monkey in the UK? Were they from sort of hospital or a brewing background or was it some guys that sort opportunity to sort of get into this side of things? Yeah, so Andy, who was ah ah one of the founders of of Powder Monkey over in the UK. Yeah, more of a a pub background. um so And started off with one of the founders, the other founders of was a brewer. So um yeah, so they they um they certainly started relatively small and grew relatively quickly.
00:21:11
Speaker
And obviously, I mean, you've got quite a few brands from Sydney within there. yeah Wayward, Willy Boatman, Akasha, Powder Monkey, Southern Highlands. How do they sort of all work and interact with each other? um So yeah, look, the um the group has grown considerably over the last eight months. um Akasha and Wayward were already looking at coming together early last year.
00:21:34
Speaker
Well, it was only a couple of months, two or three months between the announcing that merger with between those two brands and then suddenly becoming power. Beginning of last year, we were smack bang in what we all know is the perfect storm of of difficulty in this industry. um Pete and I from Wayward have known each other for a long time. and And sort of looked at yeah the the size, that medium-sized breweries that both Akasha and Wayward were, were just getting pummeled left, right and centre. The old valley of death. The um but the valley of death. yeah the Completely the wrong size for a wholesale brewery. yeah um yeah cost going All the things we've all spoken about many, many times. We don't have to go into each one of those sort of things. But... um Really feeling the pressure of of either not being small enough in a brewpub model and not being big enough for that that wholesale model. We thought, well, but if we bring the two breweries together, it brings us up over over the mark where we actually start to be profitable again. So we saw that as a big opportunity, particularly consolidating production in our five-doc brewery. So we made the decision to do that and and ah'd I'd known Ben for quite a while. We'd been speaking on and off for quite a while and he he saw the merit in that model and and thought it would be good to bring into the Powder Monkey group. there been discussions about joining Powder Monkey before the sort of merger of Akasha and Wayward or was were the with the conversations with Powder Monkey or Ben separate?
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah, so it's certainly nothing to do with that conversation. And and as I said, I'd known Ben for a while and we'd spoken sort of quite lightly about it. But really when we when Wayward and Akasha made that decision to come together, that was made on our own. yeah And as I said, Ben sort of, and we were looking for investment at the time as well. To make that model work, we did need to build a few things and do a few things which required more investment. And that's when Ben became part of that conversation. and So that's exactly what i I see would fit well into the Powder Monkey model.
00:23:23
Speaker
So did we did he approach
Integration of Sydney Brands under Powder Monkey
00:23:24
Speaker
you pretty quickly then? I mean, yes, we we would have, last time I put up you, Sydney would have been around about that time when you mentioned you were looking for investment, there was some conversation ongoing, I'm assuming it was this conversation that was ongoing. yeah So that, it must happened very, very quickly then from- Yeah, relatively quickly. We wanted, we, again, that conversation with Weyward and Akasha, we were convinced that was where we had to go. we wanted to do that relatively quickly. So, um, We'd kind of started to do do it anyway. So when the serious conversations started with Powder Monkey, we believed that was a good fit as well. We'd already sort of started that amalgamation of the two breweries. So we just had to keep going essentially and got that done within a few months.
00:24:01
Speaker
And so now you've got, you know, Southern Highland, Powder Monkey, which I guess is, you know, probably when this is open, it'll really start gaining traction over here. You know, obviously Willie the Boatman was the first one outside of Southern Highlands to become part of the group. Yep. You know they're still very much part of it as well. And then Akasha and Wayward, how have you worked out how the five of those are going to work together? Because you're not going to have five venues by the end of next year, maybe four, but yeah how's it all going to?
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah, think I think from a production viewpoint, um the model really works into centralizing many of the functions of those breweries. So particularly from an administration perspective, finance, all the different parts, marketing, everything, we get to streamline those parts of the business so that we're not, you know, it's not, if there's five breweries, it's not five times that effort, we can really bring that in and and streamline those costs of the business. yeah And then also production. So um we always, the Willie Development site,
00:24:51
Speaker
always had to be redeveloped and we're still brewing there at the moment, but we'll be shutting that down within a couple of months. They'll be rebuilding that whole site and then hopefully we'll be moving in towards the end of 2027. think that's kind of key, isn't it? Because I thought that when, because Willie Boatman and the Bar is obviously closed now apart the pop-up, I assume that once it was done, it was done. But there are plans to be back in St. Peter's again. For people who haven't been there, Willie Boatman's right, it's inside a sort of wider precinct. Yes, precinct 75 and that's been on the cards to be redeveloped now as many, many parts of Sydney. So we'll include, yes, lots of new apartments and that sort of thing, but the developers were very, very keen to ensure that the brewery was there when they reopened in 27. So we're a very, very important part of that development. Will that brewery go back in as well? it'll give you three different breweries? We'll probably put it yet to be decided. But because it is a couple of years off, we'll probably put something new in there.
00:25:47
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And if people are watching this on YouTube, behind us is the old Southern Highland Brewery. So you'll be brewing on site here. I guess maybe smaller batches here than you'd put out of the pasture. Yeah. look, the Camden, um or what we call brew pub or Camden Brewery and Taproom, we're sort of where we're right on the verge of of deciding what that final name is or Brewery and Beer Garden. is designed to be at the spiritual home of Powder Monkey here. Whilst we have released some of those Powder Monkey beers to market and they're available now and and have been received really well, um this is really going to become the Powder Monkey home. So it will be a brew pub. About 250,000 litres of beer and all the Powder Monkey beers will be brewed down here yeah as long as special releases. We'll have something like 17 taps here. So we'll have a fair bit of beer to be brewed in the next month or two.
00:26:34
Speaker
And in terms of the model, like, um you know, multiple of the places do have homes. Willie Boatman will have a new one. This one will be open. Yep. Powder Monkey. But, you know, Wayward closed as sort of part of the deal. I've always kind of wondered if breweries and beer names do need a home. Do you sort of see, like, I don't know, a position for Wayward?
00:26:54
Speaker
Can it exist just in wholesale? What's the sort of plan for those that that don't have sort of dedicated brew pubs? That's a good question and one we get asked a lot. Obviously, the Wayward Tatroom has been closed. There's various reasons behind that. But the Wayward wholesale brand is a very healthy brand. Yes, it had a great tatroom and had a great following in that yeah immediate area in Sydney. But it is a national wholesale brand that is well recognized. And we've proven over the last eight months that it can stand alone without.
00:27:23
Speaker
without that space um well there there may be another one there's not one on the on the cards at this point but um yeah we we definitely take and a caster to a certain extent as well both the cash and why would as very solid well respected wholesale brands that can stand alone and you know 95% of customers aren't visiting we're visiting the outside room because it is a real net you proper national brand And has there been an extent of going, oh, you know, we can keep all of the beers and all of the brand identity separate? Or is it a case of going, okay, we've now got five brands under the same banner. Do we need to have this many pale ales or this many lagers? Has there been a bit of going, actually, these are just going to cannibalize the wider group or or we to keep the each in their lane?
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah, and and this is, you know, we we've done and continued a lot of work with with Jesse, who a lot of people know, know you guys know well. From Craft Instinct, yeah. Yeah, from Craft, just to work on on what that looks like. And I think the important distinction is the wholesale market versus versus retail or the end consumer. to the end consumer these brands are to continue to be what they are they're well respected brands and and yeah um we're supporting the legacy of what they were and I'm taking them into the future so from it from a consumers perspective they are all completely separate brands you know we're not plastering powder monkey logos over everything it's important that the existing Akasha customers can still get their beers why would be is will environment beers they're all very very separate brands and have
00:28:46
Speaker
And we believe that we've got ah a very rounded portfolio um that there is, there is yeah everyone's got a parallel, everyone's got an IPA, and but each of the brands actually has something that they specialize in that is separate to the other brands. So they fit together well. the owners has to go into a ring and fight out. So you see who's pale remains on there on the roster. No, that's right. There is a little bit of that in the background maybe, but so everyone's proud of their biz. But yeah um but yeah it's important that we do have people from each of those brands working within the Powder Monkey business. and yeah we And we spent a lot of time dissecting the audience, what they look like, what they want, and making sure that we preserve the legacy of each of those brands.
00:29:27
Speaker
From a wholesale perspective, it's a different story. We want to be the Powder Monkey group. So there's two distinct sort of Monkey. Well, noticed if you jump on the Willy the Boatman website now, it takes you to the Powder Monkey site for sales and stuff like that. Yeah, so so we're still working with how the websites will work. um yeah I think relatively separate is is pretty important. So the consumer doesn't need to know about ownership. yeah I think if you look at some of the big brands around the world that have multiple sub-brands, yeah a lot of time the consumer doesn't really need to know too much about the ownership. From the wholesale perspective, so we've got Powder Monkey Group, which essentially has all those brands underneath. It gives us the opportunity to go in as a single force to our wholesale customers yeah and offer them a full portfolio across all of the different brands from one source. And I think, and that's gone really well for us. That has been very well received that, We can walk into a pub um that we have a good relationship with and we can put multiple brands on multiple chats through one source and that's been very successful for us. It does sound a little bit like but like Mighty Craft and that that didn't seem to go so well for them, but maybe lessons learned from what happened there? Yeah, I think, look, yeah ah yeah I'm not going to sort of go into any...
00:30:36
Speaker
particular examples, but I think yeah we had a strong business case too of consolidation in the back end, which we've done most of already. And that had to be done quickly. um There's no point in bringing breweries into a group and then having them operate the way they did before. It's not it's not achieving anything. So that you know consolidation of all the different things, the departments, and even production to a certain point is important to lower the costs and and make the model successful. And we've done that very, very quickly.
00:31:04
Speaker
And with you now being GM of the Powder Monkey Group, yep how much how much time do you have to so dedicate to that as opposed to your baby, Akasha? it It was my baby. And and look, I always have a soft spot in my heart, of course. and And I love the Akasha brand as much as I always have. um it was it was if I take that back a step, For us to be part of the group, there was know I had to be comfortable um that that Powder Monkey and and particularly Ben, who's who's our local director down here. um He is a great guy. The entire company is made up of good people. um and He knows the other founders from outside of Beer, isn't he? from ah other so the uk Yeah, so you've got um Andy and Mike over in the UK and Ben um all worked together in previous lives before Beer and knew each other very well.
00:31:54
Speaker
um good guys and I mean and I'm not yeah it's easy with all you know they're good blokes but they are actually stellar guys that I like to go and have beer with and um it was important and it was important to to the other founders of the other brands um that they were going to recognize know the importance of of the legacy of those brands and they've they've been really good so It was an important, you know, i need to be comfortable with that, which I 100% was and I'm glad we made that decision.
00:32:19
Speaker
um But now I'm responsible for all the brands, not just Akasha. So um it really, yeah to put my business hat on, I need to treat all all brands equally and and spend as much time on each one as is needed. has that been easy
Dave Padden's Transition to GM Role
00:32:34
Speaker
just to sort of you know good treat everything naly for the first couple of months it's hard and and and you know we've got uh i was very lucky to bring across my entire team uh from akasha we only had a very small team anyway but um yeah they it's one of the big challenges not so much for me but more for my team was to say that the same we represent all these brands now and um you know no no one gets preference over the other and um yeah we're at we got to that point pretty quickly but yeah it's a it's a different mindset yeah of course And how are you finding yourself, I guess, in the your role as well? Like yeah it's got to be very different to running Akasha, right? yeah Yeah. Like how's it sort of from a, I guess, professional and as the GM, like like how are you sort of managing it?
00:33:16
Speaker
For me, the biggest challenge has been now that I'm responsible for, you know, five brands instead of one, um stepping back a little bit. you tend to, particularly during tough times, you tend to do a lot more on the ground than you used to.
00:33:29
Speaker
yeah um And actually learned a lot from from my directors now. very As I said, very smart guys, very successful business people. Ben spent a lot of time mentoring me around, you know probably don't focus on that because somebody else can do that. um yeah He needs me focusing on the business and working on the business rather than in it.
00:33:49
Speaker
And that's been the biggest challenge for me is I can't do five times what I used to do. And so being able to step back and make some intelligent decisions across the group, that's that's been the challenge for me. Not quite there yet, I will admit. Working too hard as always, but, you know.
00:34:06
Speaker
And you mentioned five brands in Australia, six breweries or other business in in the UK.
Global Expansion Plans for Powder Monkey
00:34:12
Speaker
Are there more acquisitions planned? like what's what's the What's the future look like for Powder Monkey? I guess in Australia it's been been a case of working out yeah you know how to get the the brands working together.
00:34:22
Speaker
yeah i guess existing brands working to essentially get this place open, but beyond that, what's the what's the goal? Yeah, and look, you know, there's certainly, this won't be it. I do, yeah, there will be, I think, further, well, I believe there'll be further acquisitions down the track. and We're certainly leaving the door open for that. I'd say... Within New South Wales? No, I'd probably say more interstate. I think, you know, we've kind of got enough going on in New South Wales now. I think it's been important with the the work that we have done to have the breweries close enough together to be able to do it properly. But um I dare say there'll be more in the future and probably further afield in interstate. So that's exciting.
00:35:00
Speaker
Hopefully give us a few more months just to get all this sorted out. But you were saying it's not just the UK and here. You mentioned there's a venue already in Hong Kong. yeah we do we do have a global strategy yeah um we're doing a fair bit in hong kong there is we have a partnership with a bar in hong kong it's called the powder monkey um brew house tap room um and so just stocking our beers we're supplying those from australia now which is um and they are going through a lot of beer um so we're also working with a chain of restaurants in hong kong um supplying to i think it's about five or six restaurants at the moment um that's going well off craft scenes
00:35:38
Speaker
had its challenges like ever in the world, but we're seeing a lot of beer over there at the moment. We're currently looking at opportunities in the US, in other parts of Southeast Asia, um Gibraltar, all sorts of different things. And we need some opportunities to...
00:35:53
Speaker
established Powder Monkey there or to buy other the brands? Is it an idea to ideally build one or two of these brands into a sort of global behemoth or is it more a case of let's kind of smaller scale breweries in a lot of places? Yeah, it's it's a little bit of both. I think it's yeah it's important that the Powder Monkey brand does grow around the world and that's why we have branding in the yuke in Hong Kong, obviously the UK, and yeah yeah down here in Australia by launching um the venue here in Camden. As I said, this will be the spiritual home of the Powder Monkey brand in Australia. it will be a Powder Monkey branded brew house here. Half the taps will be Powder Monkey. We'll have some guests, family members yeah on tap as well. But yeah, a little bit of both. So some acquisition and I think yeah getting that Powder Monkey brand global is is certainly on the draw code.
00:36:41
Speaker
And we're probably going to run this just before this Powder Monkey venue
Opening of Powder Monkey Brewpub in Camden
00:36:44
Speaker
opens. So it'll look a bit different to how people are watching on YouTube are seeing it. But do you want to give us a bit of an insight as to what is going to look like here? Obviously, we've got the long old bathroom there from Willie the Boatman. Yeah, it is beautiful. I think it's 150 years old. It came from the States as well. So I wasn't sure it was going to get here. This came in one piece from St Peter's in Sydney. So. The guys did a fantastic job again here. But this is obviously the main bar behind us, serving area and some booze and things like that. They'll be going in the next week or two. Probably the big thing for us is, I don't know they can see on the- Well, most people are listening anyway, but there's a nice tub of beer gardens. Yeah, yeah, there is a massive beer garden outside where probably up to two thirds of the setting will be. There's undercover as well. But it's a beautiful outdoor area and quite unique to this area. And of course, on the other side, we've got the brewery, making plenty windows and viewing platforms and things. I think it's important to make sure that people can, not so much touch, but see and experience the brewery because it will be an important part. And most of the beers, essentially, all the Powder Monkey beers will be brewed here as well. And I think for those that don't know the location, you're right in the heart of Camden town centre as well. It's really opportunity. Yeah. You're not, you know, it's not like a brewery opening in a industrial or brownfield site. You're actually, what was it? 10 metres, 20 metres from the door and you're on the main road. Yeah, down the main road. And it's a beautiful space.
00:38:12
Speaker
Probably won't be able see if you're looking at it, but it's been a long build. It's been going for quite a long time and it is a very, very beautiful, it is an older building, but it has been restored. It's absolutely stunning. Almost like a bit of an old church sort of feel with the big wooden pillars and white walls and old brick. Some of the original walls are part of it. It's a stunning space. But we'll be quite a unique addition to the area. We're very looking forward to it. Only four or five weeks away. A little bit today. Great. Well, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.
00:38:44
Speaker
Cheers.
High Country Hop Technical Symposium
00:38:50
Speaker
The High Country Hop Technical Symposium has become one of the biggest gatherings of independent craft beer professionals in Australia. And it's back again, even bigger and better from the 26th to the 27th of March in beautiful Beechworth in Victoria.
00:39:04
Speaker
Back to give us another update is organiser Ben Kraus of Bridge Road Brewers. Ben, thanks for joining me, mate. Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Now, mate, I understand you've just confirmed a pretty big name for your keynote speaker at the technical symposium. Tell me tell me more. Yeah, we've we've managed to to have Jeremy Moynier from Stone Brewing in San Diego as our guest this year. I've been trying to get him over probably for more than, at least more than five years to come over and and and brew with us.
00:39:38
Speaker
on the back of ah Bridge Road Brewers or I did a collab with Stone in 2015 at their Liberty Brew Pub and that was together with Jeremy. I can't remember the connection that hooked us up but yeah, we we were over in the States for Firestone Walker Festival. we were showing beer there for the first time and did a side trip down to San Diego and and we brewed a beer called Redstone Bridge which was a Stone and Bridge Road Brewers collab.
00:40:08
Speaker
that just got released through their through their brew pub. um And since then, i've I've bumped into him maybe two or three times judging at the World Beer Cup and always have a good chat, have a few beers with him and try to convince him to come down to Australia.
00:40:23
Speaker
And this year, he um he managed to get permission from work. And he also is part of the, he's the president of the Hop Quality Group in the States. um So he's sort of traveling with both hats on one stone brewing. We're collabing on a beer together.
00:40:38
Speaker
um He'll be presenting as our keynote speaker at the the technical symposium. And he's doing some work with Hot Products Australia while he's in town reviewing. um I think he has to do some approval process things for the new palletizing plant.
00:40:52
Speaker
So he's got a busy schedule. Yeah, nice. I understand. I've spoken to Jeremy before on the podcast. hes He's very heavily involved in kind of innovation and new products at Stone. Is that right?
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He's, I guess he's an old hat in that company and he's, uh, had lots of experience ah across lots of different platforms. um So, and I think, you know, just generally his interest in in innovation and new products and passion, you know, enough to volunteer time to to work for the Hop col Quality Group, it just puts him in a good position to, you know, i have eyes and ears across all things craft, especially being in in San Diego and, you know,
00:41:32
Speaker
you know but It was interesting working with him on coming up with a collaboration brew in that he he's certainly not a lone wolf. he He brought other people into the conversation around how he would develop things, which was for me was interesting to see how that process unfolded. yeah nice well thank you Ben that's a great update and listeners if you want to make sure you don't miss out on Jeremy Moynia as well as many more insightful speakers and industry sessions book your tickets now for the High Country Hop Technical Symposium register now at thehighcountryhop.com.au and we'll be back with more updates on the symposium soon thanks Ben thank you
00:42:16
Speaker
Welcome back.
Financial Challenges and Administration Experiences
00:42:17
Speaker
Um, obviously, da i mean, we've talked about the craft beers and the challenging years recently, but to kind of go back into it a bit more with Akasha and the voluntary administration, like, um, rather than saying what was the go there? I mean, how'd you sort of, I guess, navigate that period and out of it because You seem to be on a rapid rise with, well, you had the crowdfunding, you had the purchase of the Edwards, which yeah then had to close, which was a live music venue in Newcastle. Yep.
00:42:44
Speaker
Barrel Room opened in there as well. i'm I'm trying to keep my timelines all right, but I think I've already messed them up. Pretty close, And then it all kind of, I guess, felt like from the outside, it all came out. falling apart pretty quickly. Is that a fair yeah way to look at it? In the scheme of things, Akasha, the brand, will be celebrating 11 years this year. So um you know it it it was ah a pretty nice steady rise for the majority of that. um The crowdfunding was very successful. um you know and we've It's worth worth mentioning as well that we fought incredibly hard to make sure that they come on the journey with Powder Monkey as well. um Obviously, yeah that hasn't happened in some other cases where where the crowd funders have been dropped off. We've made sure that they're coming on this journey with us. So whatever they were sort of allocate or promise from Akasha will be carried across to the wider
00:43:33
Speaker
Correct, yeah. yeah So yeah obviously, you know we've got a little bit of um value to build back into into those share holdings, but even since um yeah the the Powder Monkey share prices has risen, I should say, so quite significantly in the last eight months, which has been nice. so It's a very, very long process of getting that all sorted out, but we've made sure that they were part of the journey across the Powder Monkey as well. So during that process, we did what we promised in the crowdfund. We expanded the brewery, which was important. We built the barrel room. We also purchased the Edwards. Again, yes, that probably was the thing that probably most disappointed about in that time. It was a number of factors that caused us to actually shut down the venue. But us being able to run it, I mean, yes, 200k's away doesn't feel like it is a long way away. Because originally you were thinking of putting a small brewery in there as well. Yeah, that's right. The venue was very, very large and you needed to fill that venue to be able to pay the bills and we just weren't quite getting there. So to ensure the safety of the group as a whole, we made the varied and I love that venue. And a lot of people in Newcastle did too.
00:44:48
Speaker
um it It had really, yeah with the difficulties in hospitality, I think those difficulties were felt harder in Newcastle than say somewhere like Sydney. yeah um And for the safety, as I said, of the group, we needed to just stop bleeding money in that venue. is it Did it impact your brand in Newcastle? Actually not too bad. And I think probably one of the things we didn't do well enough was really make it in a Karsha venue. um And so the upside of that is, yes, ah ah we don't think we still do plenty of wholesale business in Newcastle, which is great. so yeah But yeah, that tough times. And that's, you know, we started to feel the pressure as did the entire industry around that time. Yeah, not too long after the crowdfund. the pressures of costs on the business, whether it be wages in in hospital wages and costs in hospitality or the costs and excise and everything else, again, that we speak about in the brewing industry was was the perfect storm for someone else's. And it really started happen. It was quite amazing. how I think we had a chat in probably at Akasha around about the time of the crowdfund. And I don't think you actually take it on the bad news, but you were talking so excitedly about them. It's like, here's ah here is a brand and a brewery that's really on the up. And then, yep. It wasn't too long after i was met you were met with you just to kind of check you were okay because like just so much stuff had be yeah yeah have been happening. you know So it was a real here we go and then kind of crashing down.
00:46:05
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, and sometimes we hang on to businesses that, you know, we quite a diversified business and we honestly believe that diversifying the business was the way forward into hospitality, but geez, hospitality is tough. I don't, again, don't need to tell you guys that, but really hitting a tough period around that time and just needed to make some tough decisions. The Bower Room has been quite good for us. It sort of ticks along. It's a very valuable marketing tool for us as well as a wholesale brewery. But it's small enough to be able to weather those storms. And now it's a really important part of the Powder Monkey Group as well. For people that don't know, that was the, what was it called the Bitterfew Grice had Creek and Cellar or something like that? Yeah, that's Years before. But it's essentially, I guess, a restaurant and bar. Yeah, bar and restaurant. And we always say, bar and restaurant, I'm a restaurant. We make booze for a living. But it is an important distinction that we talk about. We do make beer and that's what we do and what we're proud of. It's the only place that you can buy a barrel of beers as well. Yeah. So it's been an important part of our mix and the Powder Monkey Group values venues quite considerably. And we talk a lot about that whole grain to glass journey and it's an important part of a profitable venue is being able to supply the beer to that venue. And I guess with any process of VA or the closure of the Edwards come, you know, job losses and cuts
Personal and Professional Challenges at Akasha
00:47:38
Speaker
you've had to make. And I've known you a long time, probably since the very start of Riverside, you know. two or three breweries ago, really. It's only about 15 years, Sorry. You're a fast mover. Way to make us feel old, yeah. You're fast mover. But you know, as I said to the question, you're very sort heart-on-sleeve guy. What's it like having known that you have to, you know, close a business, make people out of work, like deal with that kind of stuff? Like, you know, because I know you've been dealing with a lot stuff personally outside that as well. Like, how has it been going through that? It's been a few years. Yeah, because you get into beer going, I want to make some great beers and it's going to cool thing to be part of. And then you get faced with these realities where you've got to make, you know, I don't know, people, you know, redundant or, you know,
00:48:15
Speaker
overnight or whatever yeah so how how's that been for you yeah it's fucking horrible okay it is and i and and i love what i do and i still love what i do so i'm still still doing it um but those few years um yeah having to let staff go is never gets easy never gets easier um it's horrible and and it is because i do you know i put everything i've got into this and so does my team we do still have an amazing team having said that a lot of my team that are still that came across the powder monkey you know some of these guys have been with me for seven years um it's ah that's amazing yeah but there's also a huge responsibility on me and their families and and to have to let you know we haven't let that many people go but when we do
00:48:59
Speaker
yeah i hate it yeah if i did if i liked it i'd probably be a very different person um that that that has been a tough part um but again with the transition into powder monkey um i was able to bring across all of my staff as well um as you have stuck with me through thick and thin so that's been amazing right well i mean i guess we sort of focused on i guess The tougher times, the darker times,
Dave Padden's Brewing Career Highlights
00:49:21
Speaker
whatever. But obviously, you know, you mentioned it's been about 15 years from rich since Riverside started. There's been plenty of, you know, glorious times along the way. I think I would would have first met your, they got a phone call from me when you first came down to Mountain Goat to have a look at a piece of their gear that had Riverside off the ground. yeahp So, I mean, looking back over the time, you know, um you know anything you sort of look back on as a real sort of,
00:49:43
Speaker
highlights over the years, whether it's beers or, you know, just sort of things that really stuck with you. So many highlights. It's funny. So many highlights. I can't think of one. But it's, you know, I threw in the corporate towel, you know. I think I did the first year and a half of Riverside. It was a side hustle, as they call it. don't think it was side hustle. Because were you homebrew when you were working in the corporate world? Because you were in IT, wasn't it? IT's a business. In management of IT. Yeah, I can't fix your computer, sorry. Managing IT, okay, yeah, yeah. But yeah, working in IC business, particularly in the US, and that's where I fell in love with beer, spending so much time in the States.
00:50:17
Speaker
um Yeah, started Riverside, God, 15 years ago, would you believe it? And um and you know just building a brewery, really having no idea what I was doing at the time. And there wasn't that many people around that did at that time. um yeah Some of the same old names like Scotty Morgan yeah was there to lend a hand and and help me figure this stuff out. like, you know how do i I bought this 2000 liter brewery from Mountain Goat, who everyone knows who Mountain Goat was. And I've got this 50 liter brewery here that I've brewed on. What do I do in between? So I think the collaboration back then with the few breweries that were was the best it ever was. There was no real competition between us. There were plenty of people to help out. And, you know, just the pure learning curve was just blowing my mind for the first few years. I'm pretty much all the way through Riverside. Well, I guess people would probably want to help because you put out some absolutely banging beers straight away. The 77 and the 777. Number and the hottest 100, think. Yeah, yeah.
00:51:19
Speaker
I don't know what year that was, 2014. Was 44 the darker IPA? Was that all the brown? The amber, yeah. The amber, yeah. American amber. And we were putting beers out that a lot of people hadn't seen before. And we're doing them really well. I remember they were leaner than a lot of the WIPAs, W, double IPAs around at the time. And I think we got very excited.
00:51:37
Speaker
either the first or second good beer week that we were going to have the 77 what did you call it triple seven seven triple yeah so the 77 was the original ipa we launched with uh i'm pretty sure we made sure we got that for the festival 7.7 ipa yeah yeah single ipa but where they used to be having a little bit more booze than they do now yeah um launched with that and then um about six months later we launched the triple seven which was the double ipa at god i can't remember now eight point something yeah i had a few phones we're going we really want this to be on the launch tap lineup it
Future of High-ABV IPAs
00:52:07
Speaker
was maybe the first or second good beer week like yeah it was like we we must get this beer on if we're a serious beer festival yeah and it was it was great and you know festivals like that which we're only a year or two in um which is the pure excitement um i think you a little bit that shine a little bit there's a lot more competition around now we're all fighting for yeah probably the same amount of saps were available back then. um you know it's um that That just pure camaraderie between craft brewers back then um was amazing. Starting to see a little bit come back, I will admit. I think the last few years during the difficult times, we all kind of got very inwardly focused just to get through. well There was that time when you couldn't leave your house as well. Yeah, that didn't help. and So I think i think we're starting to see that camaraderie come back and certainly i am seeing that anyway, which is which is kind of because that is such an important part of of why we did it and why we continue to do it. so But yeah, look, it's it's it's it's been a thrill. yeah Even the last few years, yes, it's been bloody hard, but God, I've learned a lot. yeah know I've done three MBAs in the last three years. We've learned so much and I think um life is not easy. um I've always got a very positive attitude. You've known me long enough to know that. But um what I need to focus on and what my mentors will say to me is, yeah you've learned so much, use that now moving forward. you know don't Don't say, oh, we should never, shit happens. But now we've had a massive opportunity with Powder Monkey, we're all having fun again. And yeah, we'll learn a lot in the last few years. What about, I mean, with the Kasha as well as Riverside, people know you for those big hop forward beers in particular, at least hop lead if not big, but some of them have been massive in terms of ABV.
00:53:50
Speaker
Do you see much of a future for that? Because I kind of, I kind of miss those days when people were maybe experimenting quite that much or it feels like people don't want to sell that into the wholesale market or the wholesale market's gone. How do you sort of manage that within Powder Monkey or people still? Especially someone who once released a sex tuple IPA or something. No, it was a quad. It was a 16% or something for a GAV? Yeah, it was...
00:54:17
Speaker
It was a lot. I can't remember. I remember there was a lot of eyes. but It was frighteningly drinkable. It was remarkably balanced is my memory of it. I can't believe how. and that was and and yeah we certainly during the early years of Akasha were, and we we did that. We used our our Gabs beer each year. we were yeah Gabs beers are famous for being sometimes a bit silly, a little bit out there. We always use it as just an opportunity to push ourselves that little bit further. To just another eye. We did for three years in a row. Absolutely. So look, I think there's no doubt that the market is moving towards much less alcohol in beers. Our biggest seller in the entire group is the Wayward Hazy Mid.
00:54:54
Speaker
Amazing beer, tasty beer, three and a half percent alcohol. That's, you lots of I've got three lagers in the range. That is where our volume is. Having said that, my very first beer at Akasha was the Freshwater Parallel and that's second in the group. So it's still, it's actually had a massive resurgence. And what about the Akasha sub-brand, which I guess was designed to be a bit more that approachable thing as well as that sort of, And so we still have our what we call our project range um and Akasha and Wayward in particular were quite famous for their seasonal releases and it's a really important part of our strategy at Powder Monkey to continue that. So and that's where we see a bit more of that experimentation, usually an IPA of some sort or a double IPA. We're still we're not punching out a lot of our mainstream core beers in those types of beers, but we're still making sure that they're available through through our Akasha project. We've still got the Hotsmiths and Mosaic IPAs. on That's all still ticking along.
00:55:46
Speaker
just the volume will be a lot less than what it was a couple of years ago. And what's the ah Dave's favourite from all the beers you put out whether at Riverside or Akasha?
Dave's Favorite Beers from Riverside and Akasha
00:55:54
Speaker
I'm assuming there's probably some crossover in recipes between the two as well. Yeah, a really good question. I'll tell you, that there was one, we had a, um I'll come back to what the real answer is, but I think it was about, there was a guy yeah called Dirk Blau who was our head brewer a few years ago, a Dutch guy who's now moved over to France.
00:56:10
Speaker
um they They were giving me shit one day that I hadn't brewed a beer in probably three or four years, which was true. yeah you get You start as a brewer, you build up and you eventually start running a business, which I quite enjoy. So it was fine, but they said ah they were quite The brewers were saying, there is no way that you could brew another beer. So I said, right, let's have a competition. Head brewer at the time, Dirk me, we're gonna brew a beer each. We're gonna put them on the taproom for two weeks and whoever gets the most votes without, and the customers won't know who brewed what, is the winner.
00:56:42
Speaker
And so I brewed, and and i was very nervous, but i did I did, I brewed a beer, I called it, Is It A Banger? i' Named after a great little song from a few years ago that you may or may not know. And and I won. So that is kind of my... How often we do this. If you ever ask me what my favourite beer is, I come back to that one. It was Is It a Banger.
00:57:01
Speaker
Out of what we brewed, I think both the 777 from Riverside and the Corbin from Powder Monkey are right in the slot. If I could brew one beer for the rest of my life, that was it and would still be it. I love a good, drinkable, dry, double IPA. Yeah. And um they looked at the 777 has ah has a very um as a very soft spot my heart because it was a bit of a, it was something different at the time. There wasn't much around that was doing they were doing that. And we were teaching people what a proper double IPO was. yeah
00:57:32
Speaker
not Not this, you know, bitter crud that was on a, you know, warm boat from the US. Yeah, getting getting someone a jim murphy is like yeah that's not it. This is a double IPO. Oh, that's really good. yeah So those two double IPOs, definitely. And then I guess taking a step back, you know, whether from Akasha or from the wider Powder Monkey Group, you know, you've experienced pretty much everything there is to experience over the last 10, 15 years in in craft beer in Australia. What's your take on where we stand sort of now, you know, first half of 2026?
00:58:02
Speaker
I think like I've had the same opinion now for quite a few years. um You know, I certainly wouldn't be starting a wholesale focused brewery because you need the volume from day one to be able to sustain that sort of model. um You know, I think what we're doing, and I'm not just saying this because that's what Powder Monkey is, we need, if we've got a wholesale model, um it needs a fair whack of volume. We used to say a million leads, I think bit more than that now. um So I think the future will continue to be what're something like what we're doing here in Camden, which is that real like grain to glass scenario of brewing the beer, selling the beer and having a strong hospitality model behind that. So the brew pub, I think, has proven itself to be the right model over the last few years. And I think that will
Advocating for the Brewpub Model
00:58:47
Speaker
continue. I don't think we'll see too many new wholesale brands. and i guess it's evolved as well to become more public really over time or to offer you know more than just the beer you know it has become a more expanded offering as well yeah yeah yeah it's got to have the food it's got to have everything so um that's definitely from a startup position i think that's the model and that's what we're starting to see and be successful um around the place but um i don't think that that ah that's been my opinion for quite a while now yeah
00:59:15
Speaker
Great. Well, Dave, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. Thanks for coming down. It's a long way from home for you, sir. Yeah, and we need to wrap up because you're off to have your tooth fixed at the most perfect time. What time is your dentist appointment, Dave? My dental appointment is at 2.30. Thank you so much. Best of luck. Cheers, mate. Cheers. Thank you. Thanks, guys.
00:59:34
Speaker
Entries are now open for the 2026 Melbourne Royal Australian International Beer Awards, the world's largest annual beer competition assessing both draft and packaged beer. Entering the awards is about much more than trophies and medals.
00:59:48
Speaker
Competition organiser Kiralee Waldhorn tells us more. Medals are always a fantastic recognition, but brewers can get so much more out of entering the ABBAs. Obviously, every entry will receive really highly detailed feedback from judges, and that helps brewers understand how their beer is actually perceived outside of their brewery.
01:00:09
Speaker
So it's a great opportunity to learn, to grow, to refine their products, and also connect with their peers and the wider industry. Open to breweries and cideries of all sizes worldwide, the Melbourne Royal Australian International Beer Awards offers a fantastic opportunity to benchmark your products, gain valuable feedback and celebrate success.
01:00:29
Speaker
Entries close Friday the 13th of March. Full details at melbourneroyal.com.au forward slash beer.
01:00:41
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:00:55
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:01:11
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.