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Five Barrels. Ten Years. One Family.
215 Plays9 hours ago
“We built a business that was really there to be connected directly to the community, and I think we succeeded in that.”
There are plenty of family-owned and run businesses in the local beer world, but few in which so many family members are as directly involved as Five Barrel Brewing in Wollongong.
As if to prove the point, on the day we visited to record this podcast, Jane (mum) and Mike (dad) were setting up the bar and beer garden. Meanwhile, two of their three kids working in the business, Phil and Lucy, took a break from work to join us upstairs above the brewpub where, at various times, both Phil and his parents have lived. And it wasn’t long before brother Tim got a mention too, in relation to a new side business he and Phil have just launched (which we learned about from Mike).
The O’Sheas first opened Five Barrel in December 2015, just the second brewery in the Illawarra. Now, as they celebrate their first decade, they’re part of a far larger local beer scene, which itself forms the start of an ever-longer South Coast Ale Trail stretching most of the way to the Victorian border. It’s a scene in which they helped pave the way for the others, the evolution of which is just one of the topics covered in this episode.
As well as reflecting on the ten years-and-counting – from the early days pouring samples in a restricted tasting room, releasing Hoppy Amber, and winning best brewery at the 2016 Sydney Craft Beer Week – right through to the launch of brewery software platform Abbl and plans to find a new home in the coming years, Lucy and Phil share insights on all manner of subjects relevant to anyone working in the craft beer community – all in typically thoughtful style.
Prior to that chat, our look back on the week that was takes in our man in the South West’s day spent soaking up the sights and smells of Margaret River Hops, part two of our Metro Tunnel Crafty Crawl, the new-look Molly Rose, and our jam-packed, inspiring trip to NSW.
If you enjoy the show, please feel free to like and subscribe, rate and review wherever you watch or listen. And feel free to get in touch with ideas and feedback.
Start of segments:
- 0:00 – The Week On Crafty
- 12:56 – Lucy & Phil Part 1
- 34:21 – Bowimi: Managing Multiple Drinks Brands With An All-In-One Sales CRM
- 39:37 – Lucy & Phil Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Sydney Adventures: Beer, Podcasts & Events
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and how are you Will? Two or three days back from our ah full-on trip to Sydney to get back into the swing of things. Yeah, it was ah it was great, wasn't it? Great trip. Wonderful, I think as an overarching thing, I was thinking this morning, ah wonderful to just go to a lot of busy beer venues.
00:00:27
Speaker
Yeah, i I think that was one of the most rewarding things. For people that aren't aware, we flew into Sydney, what sort of at dawn last Thursday, went to record a few podcasts caught with the Dave Pardom from Acacia, now the Powder Monkey Group, then down to Milton to Dangerous Ales. What did have for that? Then a night in Milton, on to Seeker, on a vi five barrel for this week's podcast interview. but yeah we went to seeker brewing for their collaborative event on the friday night and caught up with heaps of people from around the beer industry not just locally but pete from garage project was there who i'd not seen i reckon properly in more than a decade but we certainly made up for it talking about uh all manner of things but i think you know then heading into sydney the following day um you know we sort of popped into a few venues in the afternoon just that we hadn't been to before we hadn't been to But to go into filter whenever it was about 3.30 in the afternoon, and I think Jason, who works for the Inner West Ale Trail and does a bit of stuff for us, he'd said, like, filters always pumping. And, you know, I think a lot of the venues in Marrickville are.
00:01:26
Speaker
But just to walk in somewhere at that time in the afternoon and, like, outside be pumping and really loud, and then inside to extra seating around the tanks. Upstairs was busy, you know, a dozen women playing pool, and then people out with frozen pina coladas on the... the balcony and there was just like a real buzz and it was a really mixed crowd as well which was sort of you know i know I'm sure not everywhere is like that but I guess it's testament to a the quality of their beers but also the way they've set up the venue and very sort of encouraging in what's ah a tough time for hospo and brewing to go into a place and just like I feel good about you know craft beer industry
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah.
Craft Beer Industry Insights & Challenges
00:02:02
Speaker
I think it's true in other places as well. Like, you know, the pubs that are doing well in Melbourne, we talk about this a lot. They're doing really well. Like if anyone who can sort of capture the right audience can still get people out. I was talking to someone who said, you know, they, they used to say when their venue was quiet, they were like, oh, it's all cost of living. But, uh, they said, you know, they looked at it in hindsight and were like, well, actually we got the offering wrong at some point. So, You know, you can't always blame that because people do still want to go out. They do still want to drink beer often. just whether or not you can capture that audience, it's a tricky thing to do, but some people are still doing it quite well. Yeah, and we sort of, we continued the trip. We caught up with Megan Clay at One Drop. It was great to... see them and try a few of their, I guess more normal beers for the most part and then popped heads into Slow Lane later on and then I guess that technically the reason we were there in the first place was for the event with Wildflower, with Topher and with Pete again from garage project on the sunday morning um the event started at 11 30. it was all about the theater of beer and yet there was a packed room out the back of what 40 odd people were there it was nice stew from voyager and chris from organically greenwood popped in to help pour some beers but you know we were sort of busy in there with know pete taking taking his time pouring know layered beers with two different colors two different beers together and serving lagers different ways but the main venue i know they had a sort of event on to launch the garage project and wildfly collab and they had a couple of top chefs but they did two 200 people seatings I think back to back and it was just pumping again and you wonder how much of the we've only got three months left to get to Wildflower plays into that but again it was a very diverse crowd that was there and just yeah good see and even when we popped into you know grifted briefly afterwards that was a was pretty busy for a Sunday evening as well. So yeah, either, you know, just sit, know, New South Wales or that part of Sydney is kicking goals or, you know, people are still seeing the appeal in going out and drinking good beer in fun places.
Adapting Venues for Market Changes
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think people are often, you don't, it's hard to measure sort of how much beer is being, craft beer is being poured on tap at every craft beer venue.
00:04:14
Speaker
It's a lot really still, I think ah it, yeah. It remains a large amount and um I know there's challenging time for the industry, but it was also nice to be on the road and talk to a lot of people who were like, well, we're not really seeing that actually, or we never really saw that. It it shows that it like we talk about a bit, it's a maturing industry and it means Some people are still finding wins in different ways. It's just not everyone is sort of rising up at the same time, which is what we experienced pre-COVID. yeah. And I still need to find ways of remembering that i need to recharge an electric vehicle before things get too low. It's not the easiest thing in the world but if you don't have a regular setup. But i know thanks to everyone who hosted us over those few days um and to all the people that came to the event. um Yeah, it was ah the usual sort of full on trip that we tend to do. We've got what about 10 days before the next one now to, or three weeks for the to rejuvenate. um But anyway, I guess, you know, we're talking there about sort of people weighing up their offering. and Molly Rose, who I guess we followed their stories since before Nick even opened his venue in Collingwood. know know the team there really well. um They've just sort of finished their reworking of their, not the old brew pub, which, you know, but theyre I guess the place they opened two or three years ago, it was i guess that it was almost sort of the perfect example of doing something really ambitious and really good just at the wrong time in terms of, you know, not just the the cost of the build at the time of doing it, but trying to to really elevate
00:05:45
Speaker
the position of beer and food pairing and all that stuff at a time when it that was the absolute crunch time for people stopping going out. And I think they've yeah they've they've just sort sort of just opened up, made the place more relaxed, sort of made it a bit more pubby, I guess. And I think, you know, I've i've talked for you talked to someone over the weekend about it that,
00:06:01
Speaker
Inns and taverns have been around over a thousand years offering certain things and I guess maybe that's sort of what people kind of still still like. I think it's much harder to be really pointy and especially at a time like this and I think you know maybe that's the way that we'll see you know more people having gone or going.
00:06:18
Speaker
Particularly in the beer space, I think like there's fine restaurants in Melbourne that have been around for a long time and probably will continue to be because they're institutions, but trying to do something new and ambitious at the moment with beer, you're sort of in this pretty big valley of death, i think of things that ah that are a challenge. So yeah, I kind of think of Molly Rose that the menu more European, more kind of It's kind of less brew restaurant and more brew pub, I guess is what they were going for. They've opened up the space a bit more, larger tables, that kind of thing, kind of making it easier to know that it's a place you can go to and you don't need a booking and ah a place that's sort of always there for you in a way, rather than being a like special occasion kind of place.
00:07:05
Speaker
Don't say too much, though, because are hoping to get Nick on for a chat on the podcast before too long. um And I guess sort of stepping away from drinking beer right back to, I guess, to the almost the start of the process, Jono Outred, who's been writing for us for a number years in the southwest of WA.
Hop Farming Ambitions & Brewing Successes
00:07:21
Speaker
also now got ah a role with the IBA, engaging members, all that kind of stuff. um He was keen to do a piece on ah one of the hop growers in in the Southwest. there's ah There's a few of them there. And i think Dirk and Tara at Margaret River Hops, although they they abbreviate it to M.R. Hops. I always think of him as Mr. Hops now. She should be Mrs. Hops. um
00:07:41
Speaker
they you know they're They're kind of ambitious. They've already put pelletizer even though they've only got four acres with binds at the minute. So yeah, John just went and spent a day wandering the wandering that the the hop farm with some some brewers from a couple Southworth brewers, just getting an insight you know into what it's like trying to start that sort of business. A bit like when we chatted to Ryefield Hops at the start of the year. you know Again, Dirk and Tara, they're not first generation farmers as such, but they've never grown hops. And just that's you know that way leaning on to other people's knowledge trying to pull people together um so if you want a bit of a feel for it's it's almost like a bit of a travelogue piece the the first few paragraphs before he even really gets to Dirk and Tara is just him cruising through his home region in the southwest having a lovely time and and enjoying the enjoying the ever-changing landscapes um so yeah that was uh yeah just ah a more pastoral piece shall we say and uh beautiful photos as always from Jono
00:08:34
Speaker
Yes, yeah, he sent plenty from which to choose. I could have run a whole whole lot more if I wanted to. And speaking of hops, ah a lot of people will already know in the industry that HBA have some very exciting news on March 3. They're giving one of their hops a new name, which means it sort of, i guess, enters into the the the world in a realer way in the core range. say It's no longer experimental. yes it's It's genuine. It's a real thing. No more will you know her by the numbers. So we'll have a story about that on Tuesday early-ish in the morning and we'll also have a special episode. So keep an eye on that in your podcast feeds.
00:09:07
Speaker
Good stuff. Well, I guess that brings us to this week's main chat, which is with um Phil and Lucy from Five Barrel Brewing in Wollongong. um They were, the i guess, almost the first of the new wave of small craft brews to open there. Illawarra Brewing was already established. There had been five islands before, which had been a bit of a... um sort of fertile breeding ground for some of some great brewers around the country now. But I think so they came in and sort of really, yeah, ah guess almost started changing the changes the face of the the craft beer scene in Wollongong. They turned 10 last year. They remain a pretty small operation, but I think the there's many beautiful things about that. But as family-run businesses go, theirs is about as family involved and family-run as they come. Yeah, the space we were recording actually while they were building the brewery, Phil lived in and then later on their parents lived in the same Oh, while they were downsizing or whilst they'd sold their house
Family-Run Brewery Dynamics & Community Engagement
00:10:02
Speaker
or whatever. Yeah, yeah I'm pretty sure the table were sat at maybe had been used for many family family dinners as well. But I think, you know we were there. We took Phil and Lucy upstairs for the chat and then, you know, mum and dad were left downstairs still running the business and, you know, picked up on a few things that and led to some questions we were able to ask from the parents um and the younger brother, tim obviously still works around the brewery. But I think the other thing I really about these guys is they've been very thoughtful um about the industry, about their own business. They have able their brewery software, which they, i guess, is something that Phil was developing to help their business, which they've now rolled out. As he says, it's for sort of smaller, more hands-on breweries designed to save you time with things like tax returns. So they're sort looking to give back, but there's a lot of insight there on the challenges that they've faced, the challenges you might face, at how they sort of um you know rode or have been riding.
00:10:55
Speaker
through the tough times, um right down to the fact that, you know, they're saying they're probably going moving out of their site soon because they've realised their rent hike is going to be so significant and saying this is something that breweries probably aren't you know, a lot of breweries who've been around a number of years need to be aware that, you know, if you've had a longer lease and it's going to come up, be prepared, you know. And so i just think that it felt like there were it was almost like a bit of an advisory board at times, as well as telling the story about, you know, the family relationships and their favourite beers over the years.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, they're two really thoughtful guests. they They really, you can tell they come at every question we ask with some really deep insights, i I thought, and I really enjoyed the conversation.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. um Yeah, for sure. So do enjoy the show. if you have any feedback, we're always keen to hear from people at podcast at craftypint.com, whether that's about new guests, you know, upcoming guests you'd like to see, things you like or don't like about the show. um so feel free to send your emails in.
00:11:46
Speaker
And if you want to let us know your thoughts any other way, you can always like, subscribe or leave a comment on the platform you listen to this podcast. It helps people discover the show. So please do that. Cheers.
00:11:57
Speaker
Cheers.
00:12:01
Speaker
Melbourne's favourite local brewery, Stomping Ground, is now accepting shareholders. Having been part of the Melbourne community for over a decade now, Stomping Ground Brewing Co. has always been about more than beer.
00:12:12
Speaker
It's about culture, community and a reason to gather. Beer halls where beer aficionados and beer curious drinkers can sit side by side. A place where everyone is welcome. Now, they're looking to the future and it's looking like more venues, more taps, more tinnies, more iconically Melbourne moments and delicious beer in the hands of more people than ever before.
00:12:33
Speaker
This is your invitation to be part of the fun and own a piece of Stomping Ground. To find out more and express your interest, head to onmarket.com.au.
00:12:44
Speaker
Community built, community owned. Don't miss your chance to join the Stomping Ground journey. Always consider the CSF risk warning and offer document before investing.
00:12:57
Speaker
Lucy and Phil, thank you so much for joining us. No trouble. All good. late last year, you ticked over turning 10. I think by the time this is out, we'll almost be at your 10th birthday. Official celebration, probably didn't want to celebrate it in December, but how's it feel to be celebrating 10 years of Five Barrel?
00:13:15
Speaker
It's definitely been a wild 10 years and I think that's a reason to celebrate. um We're still here. We're still a really strong family. We're still a really strong business and we still love beer and the community and the industry. so Yeah, I certainly think that the last 10 years has you know made us like tighter as a family and you know we've we built a business that was really there to be directly connected to the community. And I feel like we've succeeded in that. So yeah. yeah
00:13:50
Speaker
And when you started as well, there'd have been just the one other brewery in the Illawarra at the time, obviously Illawarra Brewery or was it first still Five Island then or had it become Illawarra by that stage? It was it was Illawarra Brewing Co. when we started, um Dave McGrath. um yeah Back then, um you know it was still ah tasting only. you could do growler fills. He didn't package any product. um And yeah, we we kicked off with him. He he he was a great source of you know of advice. and knowledge back when we first started and unfortunately is, um, uh, you know, uh, shut down at the moment, but, uh, yeah, there's rumblings that they might be, uh, coming back at some point. So we'll see. but Essentially you know, cause there's so many breweries around the, the, the Gong and the wider region now, but you were the the first, you know, apart from the first, guess, smaller micro craft breweries coming the time. Yes. 2015, when we first started talking to Wollongong Council, they didn't really understand what a brewery was. yeah Like they, they the the meeting that we had with them, they thought we were going to be the next CUB. And they asked us about the number of truck movements that we'd have coming up going, you know, were we going to invest in road infrastructure? And we were like, well... Think a lot smaller.
Navigating Local Challenges & Recognition
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and and Five barrels isn't that much. And they, ah yeah you know, so one of the, one of the restrictions, so the advice to us when we first started was whatever restrictions they impose, you just say yes to it, get the doors open and then you push back. from yeah And that was great advice because we managed to get the doors open. And I think within...
00:15:28
Speaker
Within 18 months or so, we managed to do more than just 100 mil samples and and whatnot. So, you know, the the those first three, four years were really just about chipping down those barriers and, um you know getting council to understand what we were doing. um I think that it took a trip for them ah to Marrickville.
00:15:47
Speaker
for them to really kind of see what the brewery scene could be. Did you drive some councils up there or they were just like, oh, we know, we know that there's breweries kicking off in other parts nearby in Sydney. and yeah Yeah. That that's what it was. So it was, it was us pushing, saying, look, there's, you know, this is a thing it's coming, be part of it. Let us, you know, kind of be part of it. And, yeah, so we kind of helped break down those barriers for the other breweries to kind of pop up and, um, we've helped them um you know, in any way we can along the way, because it's it's an amazing community down here. You know, 10 years has has seen Rube Goldberg, Dusty Lizard, Bulleye Brewing now, Seeker. uh, and, and first light and then some of the southern ones as well. So and principal sorry. Resident principal. Yeah. yes There's plenty of you guys around. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. The list is getting. you never and anymore And it was good timing for us as well. Cause, uh, you know, Nick Oskoski had just moved down to down the road as well. So, move you know, yeah he would have come to visit you the first time I'd have been here not long afterwards. and
00:16:53
Speaker
I'm thinking back then it was, you came in, you didn't have any of the full venue, that you sort of came in and you were hit by the wall where the taps were and and it was just tasters that first time we came in. Yeah, so one of those restrictions from council was that the public space could not be more than 15% of the floor space. So it wasn't because you needed that space for product, it was like that was why it was cut off so short. I think we got 20 people in that was it. And we wouldn't have people, we weren't allowed.
00:17:19
Speaker
the public in the brewing space, but there had to be a physical wall between the public space and the brewing. So people who walked in, they weren't greeted by a brewery. it was a white wall and with some taps on it. Yeah. yeah and yeah And they were only allowed to have tasters yeah and we would...
00:17:36
Speaker
theoretically get into trouble if we served somebody the same two tasters in a row. Okay. Surely once you'd had your first mouth of the Hoppy Amber, you were like, you were hooked. You needed more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Hoppy Amber, like that was, that was back when, so before IPAs were a thing, right. And we felt like we couldn't sell IPA because no one knew what one was. But people were brewing amber ales and we were like, all right, well, we'll just do a super hoppy amber ale. So we did a hoppy amber, six and a half percent. And that really kind of became our kind of flagship. Such a good beer. And it really helped like people in Sydney straight away who were sort of in the know, just knew you guys as well. Right. It really helped you take off in the capital. Yes. Yeah. Well, we, we won brewery of the year for Sydney craft beer week or when? Yeah. 2016. Something like that. And then, um.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, like we, we, we started doing really well in the Sydney, um, you know, we'd, uh, load kegs in the back of dad's, uh, X trail, um, uh, to the point where it was overloaded and broke down, you Spilling kegs over the freeway. And then good idea and then that's when we had to, we decided to, um, to buy a van and so I had to trade my 370Z in which is very impractical for deliveries. so ah So yes, we got rid of the sports car and got a van. well I'm thinking then you think about this at the South Coast Trail now, yeah you know, the South Coast Ale Trail has got what maybe 30 breweries between Wollongong all the way down to the the coast, like Longstocking down that way. um
00:19:15
Speaker
Back then it would have been you guys and tim at hot dog was that about it and then nothing further south than that i don't reckon that would have you know it would that would have been the extent of the trail come and see it all a brewery five barrel head down to hot dog beer works and then or brew works was it and then you done yeah yeah and and uh tim tim was great as well like he you know we we started off and he was uh you know a massive um you know uh world of advice to us um we had a great relationship with him and we're we we'd
00:19:46
Speaker
You know, yeah, the ale trail was like people come down, go to Illawarra Brewing Co., come to Fire Barrel, go down to Nowra. This is I could manage the website on my own at that stage. Now now probably 10 of me, 10 of us. Yeah. i'm Great. And did you sort of have an inkling that maybe this were where the wider scene would be 10 years down the line?
00:20:07
Speaker
I think so. There was definitely a shift in alcohol and the approach. Wollongong definitely needed it, because and and and especially Sydney, because they were going through like the King's Cross lockout laws and and all of that. And I think...
00:20:23
Speaker
We just needed a new approach to alcohol and drinking and the reason for going out. And I think craft breweries were definitely a part of that change because it's a more social and experience. You come out, you try new beers, you enjoy them, you talk to your friends about them. Um, and yeah, you get to learn, learn about beer and, um, I think it's definitely changed
00:20:58
Speaker
the face of alcohol as an industry in the last 10 years. And I think it's something that we definitely needed. Yeah. And obviously it took the council a while to get on board, but did locals, I mean, if they're all trying to drink your beer and you can't have to turn them away a little bit, but did they sort of get what you're trying to do pretty quickly that take some work and education? So until, yeah until we could serve schooners, people didn't understand. Right. Right. Like, and, and Dave at Illawarra, um had a bit of creative license with his concept of tastings. So when- Just tasted out a jar. essential Essentially. So, so they didn't understand that, you know, they could go to Illawarra and drink a schooner, but they couldn't come to us and drink a schooner. Cause we- We're to we too yeah good. We're too honest. So, so we we tried to do the right thing, you know, it, you know it's a very regulated environment. And last thing you want to do is,
00:21:57
Speaker
is irritate the wrong people. and so Were you a newcomer as well, whereas Dave and his family, they'd
Growth & Evolution in Craft Beer Scene
00:22:02
Speaker
been established for a while, so so they probably had Probably weren't looked at as closely as a new you know new business, owner but I would have thought.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, those those first couple of years, it was very much finding our fate, you know trying to introduce the concept of craft beer to the locals. Especially Wollongong is a very blue collar area. So the the concept of craft beer was reasonably unique. Yeah.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah. And, um, obviously it's family business when we cut in, yet both your parents are here on shift today. know your brothers or yeah other brother's also involved in business, Tim. He's doing deliveries. Okay. He's always, doesn't seem to be allowed to leave the brewery. Doesn't want to.
00:22:48
Speaker
is So is it tricky? I mean, how do you find it as a family? Do you think it's led to your lasting success over 10 years or has it been trickier? Like it's a different thing to navigate than most people who would be listening to this and in business. And your dad did just say to forehand, he's going to try and retire for a third time. So clearly the two of you are sort of, you know, keeping on as fairly tight, right? No, he just won't leave. He just won't leave. Kick him out the door and he won't leave. Yeah. look the the reality is that like we're all we've we've all got the different components that the business requires and i think that we've all just slotted into those spots and and we're all way stronger together um you know because we've we've been able to just get in and get stuff done um so what were the roles right at the start so so you were making the beer like how did you how did you all sort of work it out from
00:23:38
Speaker
I came over from KPMG, so I'm the finance guru, essentially. Phil roped me in because he was working seven days a week and wanted a day off. So I got my RSA. How dare he? I know. And took over on a Sunday, which was boring. But you, you were, you were writing labels, you know, you were hand dating labels and hand, hand labeling bottles. So yeah, like everybody's just been slowly roped in. So I kicked it off with dad and then yeah, had to get Lucy involved, had to get mum involved. Um, and then Tim was running another business and he sold that.
00:24:18
Speaker
and then needed a job. So he came and came and took over packaging and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's, it's from the outset, it was always going to be a family business. Um, everyone was always going to have a spot and we, um, yeah, we, we've made it work.
00:24:34
Speaker
And what about having your parents to draw on and that kind of thing? Because they, they used to own a business, right? I don't know you guys were very involved with that at all, or but it must be nice to be able to sort of talk to them about it.
00:24:48
Speaker
Definitely. um So mum and dad have been in business for as long as I've been alive, I think. um So they've had a lot of experience with ah different industries and it's always just handy to be able to give them a call and get some advice before writing an email or having a blow up with a staff member. Well, I remember chatting to you maybe a couple of years ago. it wasn't all after you'd taken the Bureau of New Zealand. We'd done peace on it and then you were like, you know,
00:25:17
Speaker
you had to let them go reasonably soon. And we chatted and you were like, my mom and dad have been through previous crunches. They can see what's coming. And it's like, you need to do this now. And Phil, um you have to get back on the tools. like It's going to be all hands on deck and that's going to set us up better for the future. So that kind of advice would be invaluable, I guess. And I'm assuming it has set you up well because you're keep a little bit of a you know rainy day fund or whatever you want to call it for when it was needed. For sure. um You know, no one gets in business to make really crap decisions like like letting people go, you know. But the reality is business is a cycle of ups and downs and you need to be able to weather the downs as well as your as you handle the ups. We all like spending money, but you know, you've got to have that rainy day fun. So when you look forward and see something coming, you're best to take positive action for the business as soon as you can. And and realistically, we, yeah, we we made those decisions probably a year before a lot of other people did. And as a consequence, we we got through relatively unscathed. I've spoken to other business owners as well, did kind of simmer, and they were rumours started going around the industry. i got These guys are in real trouble because they've cut all this stuff and they're like, no, no, we just had some advice that this was the best thing to do. This is what's coming. And we're actually more profitable now as a smaller business than we were back then.
00:26:45
Speaker
And could imagine how it might have looked from the outside when and you know when people have been let go and it's like these guys are going down it's like no no we're just trying to get ahead of the curve we we did so we made the decision probably on a tuesday or wednesday something like that and then the following weekend we did husky beer festival and so it had enough time to kind of make its way through the local community on yeah yeah and and i i was doing the festival was dad and i and everybody was coming up to us and saying What's going on? are you guys okay? And, um, you know, we, everybody I spoke to then said that they were doing it tough, but no one was prepared to, you know, me about it do anything about it. And, and, um, I think that's the problem. Like everyone kept saying, you know, we just need a good summer, but yeah a good summer is never good enough to
00:27:42
Speaker
boost you from a bad winter and get you through the following winter. And I think that was probably what we noticed pretty early on was that summers weren't as good as they had been and well there was there was like you you had like so much rain it was yeah it was outside of covid there was that one awful wet summer of just loads rain there was remember down in melbourne there was other issue ravict was other issues as well it's like no one's actually getting a good run at summer no one no one's getting that three months of nice warm drinking weather so yeah it's not you know you can't keep crossing fingers hoping for the best and and breweries are really difficult
00:28:18
Speaker
um business because you've got the wholesale side, which means that if venues out there are doing it tough, you're doing it tough. But if your taproom is doing it tough, you know, you're getting it from both sides. so And what else did you sort of try to do? Was it also about pulling out of certain markets and things like that and keeping your beer more local or you try and keep the wholesale going? Yeah, we we kept we kept sales and marketing.
00:28:43
Speaker
So we found, you know, they're the two skills that, you know, as a family, we kind of lack. So the the sensible thing to do was to keep that going as much as possible. So that was kind of what we had identified through that process. You know, ah these these kinds of businesses, breweries, are you know, they're very time intensive, very labor intensive, you know, so you need, you know, if if you want to keep wholesale going, like, you know, maybe you could, you know, wind your sales team back, but sales will like lag as well. And, you know, yeah, you're just going to find a way of staying busy basically. So yeah, we, we kept, kept sales marketing going and we just got back into the business and
00:29:28
Speaker
I was ah trying to maintain revenue while cutting cost. it's it's if It is impossible, but you know we tried. and How did you feel so bringing in a brewery going, I can step back, work on the business now, change my role after all this time and then within a few months it's like, all right, guess I'm making all the beer again.
Operational Decisions & Economic Impact
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah yeah honestly, it was it was a bit of a shock to the system, but you know we we had a really good run with Brent and then Andrew and we'd They'd set us up for success really, you know, they'd put a lot of processes in place, you know, and and even that that period of, you know, i think it was like 18 months, maybe two years where i was able to, you know, um do more management of the business rather than working in it. that was That was a really positive thing for us. So we set up a lot of internal processes and and then that's that that's just helped us overall. so
00:30:18
Speaker
And how how do you sort of see things on the other side now? We spoke before about how you felt like the end of the year was actually surprisingly good and a lot of people are feeling that way potentially as well. Do you think it's sort of weathered a bit of a storm or tough out there as it's ever been? I think it's always really hard to say that we're coming out of anything, especially with the last interest rate rise. um You definitely see ups and downs.
00:30:45
Speaker
a lot sooner than i think we did in the past. It would take a few months to see downtrend and now it's... Still thin ice. Yeah. Well, pre-COVID, you could have set your watch by our customer base. You know, on ah on a Thursday, this group of people would come in. On a Friday, it was the Blue Scope people having knockoff drinks and and there was always, you know, 30 40 people you know, at four o'clock on Friday and, and now it's, I feel like it's boom or bust. yeah You know, it's, we, we're, we're standing around twiddling our thumbs or we're absolutely chockers and there's very little in between. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. You can't, I remember having a chat Luke, uh, the union hotel in Newtown, maybe 18 months ago. And he's like, we've no idea. yeah Like we'll have a Wednesday night where there's nothing on and we're pumping and we're like, okay, we've got a really cool event on this weekend. and Let's get some extra staffing cause we're going to be smashed. And then you're like going,
00:31:42
Speaker
Where is everybody? It's like, well, it doesn't make any sense anymore, you know? Well, people kind of still want to go out, but they can't afford it. It's sort of what's going on. And and breweries are not the sort of venues that you book for. So people don't book tables. um People don't plan events until that weekend. So you might have. you know, no ticket sales and then all of a sudden you sell out within a few days, which is kind of crazy. but Yeah, and and um it it makes staffing really difficult. You know, we've we've got a phenomenal group of casuals um and they all need hours to keep, you know, a roof over their head and food on the table and, you know, you'd love to
00:32:23
Speaker
you know, give them more hours and whatnot, knowing that there's going to be heaps people coming in. But we, we keep the roster really tight now. You know, it was probably one of those lessons that we, that we learnt, um, you know, like coming out of COVID, like not, not overstaffing and you, you put a bit more pressure on your, on your staff that are here. Um, but it's just what it is. and Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker
And what about, uh, other sort of major moments or highlights or anything like that to that? Given the 10 year anniversary is coming, you knowlthough the part the celebration is coming, maybe has it given you a chance to reflect and look back and go, you know, they would they they were they were killer beers or they were killer moments? we we we don't do to We don't do enough reflection. i reckon it's just Too busy looking forward. Just moving moving on to the next thing. but Look, there's there's plenty that warrant like celebration. um you know like like Marty's on this, um our brewer and and Daniel, um they're on this mission to um like improve some of our process around yeast, right? So um we get all these little wins all the way through
00:33:33
Speaker
is the Is the customer going to notice these difference? I don't know, you know, but but, you know, ah he sent me a text last night saying that he'd hit odd this morning um that we'd hit 95% viability on a repitch. um And, you know, that's awesome. You were running around the lounge high-fiving the kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And i think I think... You know, breweries, you know, certainly for us, you know, we're made up of truckloads of little successes that that all end up being, you know, uh, um, you know, really fun at the end of the day, but do they mean anything to the average person? not I don't know.
00:34:12
Speaker
That's great. Well, we'll take a quick break now and then we'll come back and talk a bit more about the business, the beers over the years, the the wider community and everything as well. So see you in a sec. Cheers.
00:34:26
Speaker
Selling drinks to the wholesale trade comes with a lot of unique complexities and it helps to have a CRM that understands the market. For Proof Drinks, a distributor of Australian and international craft spirits, that solution was Bohemi. I'm chatting with Drew Dutty from Proof to find out more. Drew, thanks for joining me, mate.
00:34:45
Speaker
No, thanks for having me. This is ah this is great. Yeah, no, it's good to good to have you on the show. um Mate, i want to know more about Proof Drinks. You guys are managing multiple spirits brands. You've got reps all over the country, a national footprint.
00:35:01
Speaker
I guess, what are the biggest challenges you find day to day from a a sales perspective? I mean, it's probably the same for across a lot of wholesalers, whether you're a distributor that's small or large distributor.
00:35:13
Speaker
you know Keeping contact with your team in a country the size of Australia is is difficult. And in real time, you know you have people running all over the place all the time, multiple wholesalers, you know and thousands of customers to try and and keep track of. So um for us, the challenge is how do we communicate with our team and how do we do it efficiently as well as still achieve our goals as a business?
00:35:36
Speaker
Did you find like yeah before Boemi, did you have like lots of little, you know, WhatsApps here and Slack and emails and met text messages and everything kind of going on or? Oh, 100%. I feel like we've tried everything out there um just the, you know, it a progression of the business as we're growing. But yeah, we've tried Snapchats. We've tried, i mean, we do use Teams and Microsoft in our business every day, but even then, It doesn't capture information about the customer. It's more about the day-to-day conversation. So how do I know that that customer in that region is getting the service they need or you know seeing what the team's doing? And that the only way to do that is with a a good sort CRM. And I think this is about our fourth one that we're giving a try. And we're very so far very happy with it. the way Boemi has been doing his job. Yeah, fantastic. um We mentioned up front, Boemi is built specifically for drinks sales. um I guess, how does this work and what kind of information are you getting on on each of your customers?
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, built for drinks sales, it understands the customer's needs. So, you know, we're talking about deals, we're talking about contracts with customers, um right down to SKUs. A lot of CRMs, you know, just couldn't track the way that Boemi tracks. Plus, on top of that, we're actually able to see in real time, we can put tasks in place for the team. We can put surveys. The team's able to upload their photos in real time for each of the outlets. um it's It's kind of taking the best of all the worlds, but putting it into one that is going to be good for our drinks. And now with the integration of the data,
00:37:12
Speaker
We actually have a full data set being fed into Bohemi on a regular basis so we can see what customers are doing, how they're doing it, what their repetition is like, how often they get visited, and we're able to lay our marketing in on top of it to make sure we maximizing every call.
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah, wow. You mentioned surveys. These these aren't your kind of um traditional pop quiz surveys. These are more surveys where you're looking at what what's happening in the venue, like what point of sale they've got, that kind of thing. Is that right?
00:37:39
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. So um we up those those from a sales perspective and a marketing perspective. So if we want to know, you know, are we making sure that every customer is taking in this specific product that we need to focus on, we can add that into a survey and we can make that every call from the team has to tick that box to say that they've done it. From the marketing perspective, we're able to put in activations or key targets and track has this target been achieved? How many customers we offered it to? Who we've offered it to? Who accepted it? Who didn't accept it? What deals were included on it? I mean, it's, yeah, it's pretty impressive.
00:38:16
Speaker
my I guess when it comes to CRMs and field sales tools, there's obviously, you've mentioned there's loads of options out there. um What made you ended up sort of choosing Bohemia instead of something else?
00:38:28
Speaker
Well, we looked through a lot of different ones that were on the market. And like I said, we've tried a few in the past. um We ended up going with Bohemi partly because our our business in the UK recommended that it was a good platform to get started with. But once we dug deeper and actually did the research ourselves, just seeing that drinks integration, seeing the data being able to be manipulated and just the customization that we can do ourselves, but also with the support of Bohemi, nothing else on the market was parallel to that. Like it was, it was, yeah, quite a bit ahead of everything else. So Hence, yeah, we've given it a try and we're very happy with it.
00:39:05
Speaker
It was an easy choice. Mate, thank you so much. That is a fantastic insight and great to have your experience working with Boemi. Guys, if you're looking for a field sales solution that understands the intricacies of selling drinks, book in a demo today with the Boemi team. Head to boemi.com. That's B-O-W-I-M-I.com forward slash crafty hyphen pint and get yourself a demo. Cheers.
00:39:31
Speaker
Cheers, thanks.
00:39:39
Speaker
Welcome back, Phil, just before you were talking about getting that those yeast repitches almost perfect, 95% of the way
Local Sourcing & Storytelling in Craft Beer
00:39:46
Speaker
to perfect. what about I know you've always been a really big advocate, both of you, about working with local ingredients makers. You obviously use Mogwai, which yeah I think it is that made in Wollongong? Yes. Yeah, so down the road, right? Down the road. Yeah, and work closely with Ryfield and one of, I think, Voyage's early customers as well. why has that been a part of Five Barrel?
00:40:08
Speaker
Uh, well, i think that, um, the, the downstream economy of, of brewing is like just really interesting. You know, when someone goes to a pub and they buy a beer, uh, like brewed by a local craft brewery, there's a really, really good chance that, that, that dollar goes into, you know, the hands of a, of a you know, a local family. And, know, we found that message really important, you know, if we're trying to drive people to support a local, you know, brewery, then we need to support, you know, the people that support us. So, um, you know, wherever possible, we try and use local, um, you know, Mogwai, they're, they're great. Um, we're doing our best to transition away from dry yeast, um, to using him, uh, using Josh and, um, Elle exclusively. So that's, that's basically part of this, this, uh, project. Um, you know, uh, so we, we, 90% of our grain is from Voyager.
00:41:11
Speaker
um And yeah, we use a lot of hops from Ryefield. We've been transitioning our call range to to use a lot of theirs. When I chatted them a few weeks ago down at the farm, they were very excited about the fact that they're making enough hops now and with enough consistency that brewers them their core range beers, that was the thing that's been exciting and then the most. good They felt like we we've made it. like People are putting our hops in core range beers. That means they but you know they believe in us so that we can deliver enough and consistently as well. Yeah, well, the the other thing is that, you know, um less than 15% of the cost of a can of beer is the ingredients. So, you know, if using a local supplier costs you, you know, an extra 10 cents a can, you know, it's not the end of the world. and So, you know, I think that... that using local is, is you know, a message that that we need to follow through with because we we want people to support us being a local, you know, business too. So practice what you preach. And I think it's really great because, you know, we can go to Voyager and we go down to Ryefield as often as we can. You get to talk to them, you know you get to then share their story with your customers. And I think that storytelling of beer is something that we try and push a lot. um You know, you go get a bottle of wine and there's a story about it, why it's named the way it is or where the grapes are from. And I think that's really important to follow through with beer, especially to try and elevate the experience and have it as a more premium product as well. Yeah, I think so much about those early days of craft beer where people, you know, you'd take someone to a pub and that you're like, oh, that beer's actually made like around the corner by these people and it can, could really blow people's minds. I'm not sure it does in that way anymore, but like ingredients, you can still potentially do that. I think if the brewery's telling that story and being like, oh, well we use this, it's, you know, three hours away, which is a nice drive and all those kinds of things. I think it's a powerful story. And to be able to have a product that is completely made in New South Wales from the grain to the hops and to the yeast and then to our staff who make it, think it's pretty important. I think even the community as well. So we'd obviously, I've been chatting to Scotty Morgan about saying we're going to be here and we we're going to pop and see you guys and pop to the Seeker event.
00:43:33
Speaker
And word must have gotten, because then Stu from Voyager called me. goes, oh, I hear you're going to be in Wollongong. I'm driving down with Chris Greenwood. He's all there, all their organic grain. He goes, when are you in town? oh, we might miss you then, but we'll see this other event. It's just, you know, it's nice to have that.
00:43:48
Speaker
sort of community out there, that the little network of you know people looking at oh, can we catch up with you then? That goes beyond just the brewers or whatever, like their suppliers are really part of it as well. you know Yeah, for sure. And you know we we're a family business, but you know working so closely with so many people that we know on a first name basis, um yeah they feel part of the family business as well. And and it is a really nice community to to be in. you know Like I'm, you know, we were talking about the family stuff before and, you know. Have you had any big blowouts over the years, have to say, with the family have you managed to sort of keep lid on it? Nothing really. Tim and Phil usually. Yeah. Usually when the canning line's dying. But no. It's equipment failures, not family relationship failures, yeah. No, like in that regard, you know, we're all like, you know, emotional creatures and we, you know, we sometimes have our bad days and whatnot, but the good thing is that we all prop each other up, you know, and we keep, keep it, keep it all going. And, and so, and, you know, I feel like sometimes the, the relationship that we got with our suppliers is very much like that too. You know, you can just ring them up and, Just have a chat, you know, you don't even need to have a yak about anything, you know, important, you know, it's just, you know, Hey, how are you? You know, what's going What do you want out of this? You're not paying on time, is it? No, no. It's just, yeah. Look, I really love that we get to catch up with a lot of our suppliers. It's phenomenal. And sometimes there's organized events and then sometimes Stu just rings you up and says, Hey, you want to catch up for a beer? You know, and, and,
00:45:28
Speaker
I reckon that's great. Yeah. It takes the pressure off, I think, running a small business when every conversation you're having isn't about business, yeah right? it mean It means you can sort of, you've got that connection, you can step away from it a little bit. um What about working with the yeah local breweries
Collaborations & Technological Innovations
00:45:43
Speaker
as well? I know you sort of, we've worked with the team at Seeker last year, you are sort of forming a bit more of a, I guess, formal alliance, I guess, looking at some of the other ones out there.
00:45:53
Speaker
Yes, yeah. So it's been, this sort of thing's been in the works for for ages. tried to kick something off a few years ago, but but really just didn't have the time to do it properly. um Scotty Morgan of of various brewery kind of fame, um American canning it. All manner of businesses that he seems to be associated with. It's a good old hustler. um So he has ah kindly volunteered to put more time and effort into into doing more organisation of the organisation. So yeah, like collectively we're all trying to work together basically to to highlight Wollongong and the Illawarra as a destination for craft beer as much as
00:46:40
Speaker
you know, Marrickville and the inner west and and some of the other ale trails and and things around. So, you know, we've we've got so many amazing breweries down here and we're all doing, we're all having a really good crack. um So why not, you know, do more to work together to, to you know, promote it. same and There's quite a bit disparity as well because like some may be selling beer further afield. the People focusing on different styles. Some some of you, very like Rube Goldberg, it's essentially come to our brew pub, drink our beer kind of thing. So I guess there is enough diversity there that there's, you know, you probably mostly dovetail together pretty well rather than actually bash heads. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, like if if someone was coming down from Sydney to the Illawarra,
00:47:23
Speaker
Um, you know, Reson and Rue Goldberg, they're in the, the Northern kind of areas, and then they can snake their way down to Principal, Dusty Lizard, us, uh, First Light and then Seeker. And that's a pretty amazing, you know, afternoon, probably, you know, Too many to actually do in one day. So come down for the weekend. He's your ad. Yeah, for sure. you know Like, like Rube Goldberg, they, you know, like you mentioned, they're a small brew pub and you you go there and they're incredibly well supported by their locals. And that is perfect. That is, that is the absolute perfect, you know, model for craft brewing moving forward. um
00:48:04
Speaker
in my opinion. um And, you know, I think we just need to see more of like that sort of stuff so that people are compelled to, you know, get out and come and, you know, drink at the source. And is the Wollongong sort of Brewers Alliance, is it? Wollongong Brewers Association. Is it about sort of a marketing, sort of promotional thing are you seeking funding from you know a sort of city you know bodies or whatever? So it's really like genuinely um set up to to do more to promote the fact that we all work together. um if there's ah so it's going to be incorporated and you know all officials so that you know if there is government assistance to do anything down this way to promote brewing and manufacturing, then we'll we'll seek that out. Yeah, because you wouldn't necessarily be to do that as individual private enterprise. It has to to be an official organisation. Yeah, so to to the point where if if any one of us was to go to Wollongong Council and ask for anything... you're, you know, one of a thousand. Whereas if you're ah a formal association and whoever is talking to council represents, you know, a body of of breweries who employ collectively one hundred people who, you know, bring, you know, $10 million dollars plus to to the local economy, you know, and, and, and then there's more weight behind that. And I think that that's really important because, you know, where it it shows that the
00:49:38
Speaker
you know, council and and you know local government that um you know we're an industry that should be supported. And obviously you've got another business as well. I'm not talking but about the new hobby shop you've opened Phil. I'm wondering about both of them actually. Do you want to tell us about the other business that you launched a couple of years ago within the beer industry?
00:49:56
Speaker
is that more Is it lucy Lucy's time to shine? No, no it's not my time to shine. um Yeah, so a couple of years ago we launched Able, the brewing management software. um So essentially, when when we first started, ah we got sick of um constantly having to add add-ons to things like Counter and all of that. essentially just to run the business. And Phil has always loved computers and he developed, was it the point of sale first?
00:50:32
Speaker
Or was it? No, no, the zero, like the exise but excise bit. Excise, yeah. So to save me hours and hours and hours, um he developed an excise little tool.
00:50:45
Speaker
And it just sort of snowballed from there. And a couple of years ago, we decided that we've got this really great product. it's something you were just using in in-house. Yeah. yeah internally or Initially, sorry. Yeah. And sort of adding more and more to it. Yeah. ye Until we decided that it was a almost a fully-fledged product. And Phil and I, um we went to the University of Wollongong. We went through their iAccelerate program, which is like a startup program.
00:51:12
Speaker
sort of program and we spent... is where Mogwai comes from. Yeah, they have it. Yep. And binary yeahary tech. Yep. So they helped us develop it into an actual product and we launched and, we've taken on quite a few breweries and we're helping them. And I definitely think that AWOL has been one of the reasons why we've been so so successful.
00:51:38
Speaker
You know, nobody gets into brewing to spend all week at their computer doing tax and all of that. So, yeah, it's been instrumental in our success, think. And I guess the target audience for Able was what sort of breweries more your size, you know, sort of smaller end, sort of set up for those sort of businesses. Yeah, I reckon it's mostly for like hands-on brewers. So if you're like pretty closely tied into, you know, aspects of your brewery, like sales or operations or production, then it's that it enables the kind of software that speaks to you. You know, once configured, um it really is like a time-saving tool you know whether whether you stop using excel spreadsheets to calculate excise or um you know figuring out you know what ingredients to to buy to brew your next beer you know just the ability to save time using system like able is is um yeah it's pretty important especially if you're so hands-on
00:52:48
Speaker
And what about your other business that your your dad just let slip? yeah You've started. Yeah. So, I have nothing to do with that. So, so Tim, Tim and I, um, uh, like we've, we've played lots of like tabletop games and and card games and things over the years.
Community-Centric Ventures & Future Moves
00:53:07
Speaker
Um, Not so much recently, um but ah yeah, an opportunity ah ah came up and Tim had the wild idea to to start a hobby shop basically. So um he's always been into
00:53:23
Speaker
to Warhammer and Magic Gathering and painting as figurines painting figurines and things like that. So as as a bit of a side project for him, he's he's gone away to to start this store down in Wurrwung. What's it called? It's called ah Tabletop Commons. Okay. Um, so essentially like we, this is the, this is a really good way of like tying it into the philosophy that we've got for the brewery is that, you know, um, that, that concept of third space, you know, like more and more, I feel like we need people to get out into the community and engage with people. Um, breweries are a really great way, you know, to, to connect and to sit down with a friend and, and, uh, you know, chat over a beer. Um, and, you know, tabletop gaming and, and Dungeons and Dragons, Magic, Warhammer, these kinds of things, board games, like they're really great too, you know, to go out into a space and to just engage with other people, you know, to have those, uh, kind of meaningful connections is really important. um So, you know, it ties in, the philosophy ties in really well with what we're trying to achieve with with the brewery. So yeah it actually, yeah. Are you sold on this, Lucy? I could see a little bit of like, you know, the odd grin and maybe shake of the head going, really? ah look i As long as you don't have to be involved in it. Well, yeah, except I'm doing the accounts for it. And she keeps coming up with ideas. yeah You know you've been drawn in. used to want to be the games master, I get it. For sure.
00:54:55
Speaker
so But it, uh, some breweries at some their business, they have busy nights with games nights as well. Like it does, it does work. It it is a, it's a big fandom and a big area you can get people inside. Well, I guess that we hadn't really connected the dots until now. And we, we would like to do more collaboration in that space in the point of, you know, trying to, you know, get more board games and things into the brewery. But just randomly, completely randomly, we had someone ring up and ask us, you know, if is there a time limit on the tables because they want to come in and play like and some card games. And it's like, well, no, that's great.
00:55:34
Speaker
bring Bring your friends, sit here. You know, if you nurse a MIDI, you know, for two hours, it's not the end of the world. You know, just come in and be present. Yeah, and I can tell you where to get the board game from well, by the way. But they might come back and i tell the friends that you guys are really open to that. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, so i think I think just like having these spaces where people can come and be comfortable and be part of the community, yeah, really important.
00:55:58
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. And, I mean, what's what's next for Firebarrel? What else is going on with the brewery? our Our long-term plan is to find like a permanent home for for the brewery. yeah Which is not quite so long-term.
00:56:12
Speaker
More like in a few years. Oh yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. So the, the lease, the lease is coming up in, in a couple of years and. Two years and three months. Yeah. You can tell you do the books. You've got a countdown. And, and we've, we've got a, we've got to find a permanent home for the brewery basically. I think that this is what yeah a lot of people are going to struggle with in the brewing industry over the next few years. Um,
00:56:37
Speaker
You know, rents are just getting astronomical. um You know, the the amount of rent that we pay would would cover nearly a $3 million dollars mortgage. So, you know, wait it's it and it's it's just and dead money. Middle of nowhere, Wollongong. I can't imagine what the guys in Sydney are paying.
00:56:55
Speaker
um And, yeah, so we've just hit 10 years. So we've been through the the lease negotiation, which Phil's done a talk with the IBA about. And, yeah, it's the writing's on the wall. we We can't stay here. So I guess...
00:57:09
Speaker
watch this space, yeah we're we're not going to be here for the next 10 years, and um which gives us a fun few ah road trips planned. But you've got to caveat that. Like, we're not going to be here, but we are going to be some somewhere. Somewhere. We'll be here. Five barrels. Five barrels. We won't be a 318 Q Restrict forever. Yeah. Yeah. We can't get rid of this easily. I wonder if you thought you'd be here for this long when you opened, you know, did you I guess it's hard to envision when you open. Signing a lease for five years is
00:57:41
Speaker
Seems like a long time Terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. But it flies by. Definitely. Yeah. I feel like, I feel like if we, if we do hit our eight year mark and being like, all right, in two years, the lease is up.
00:57:56
Speaker
Are we going to stay here? We may have had a different conversation, yeah you know, like we, but, and but if, if you're having that conversation three months before your lease is due to roll over. You're way too late. You're way too late. so so yeah. little tidbit of advice to anyone out there who's a couple of years away from a lease rollover. Um,
00:58:20
Speaker
Have a plan. Have a plan. Yeah, because there's good chance the hike's going to be yeah significant on your bottom line. Yeah, horrific. Ours went up nearly 50%. Wow. 50%. At a time when the cost of of everything else is going up and there's a more challenging market, et cetera, et cetera. And in that five-year lease period, we had CPI adjustments all the way. there So, you know, the the the market grows 10% year on year. If your lease doesn't go up 10%, your market review is going to be huge. so you know If you've got a good landlord, you know yeah you're one of the lucky ones. yeah
00:58:54
Speaker
Awesome. and i guess but you know so You haven't done too much reflecting, but we'll throw this at you now. Your favorite beer from the first 10 years for each of you. i know I know mine.
00:59:06
Speaker
Because it was a small batch and we've never been able to do it on a larger scale. It's a lemon cream ale and we used whole lemons, real lemons, and we just haven't been able to get that same flavor with like lemon essence or you don't want to use, you know, three, 400 kilos of whole lemons.
00:59:30
Speaker
So that's my favorite. Yeah, I don't know, geez. Uh, I'm, I'm really digging lager these days. I, I, I think we did a Czech pilsner, um,
00:59:41
Speaker
ah last year that was probably one of my highlights but actually actually it was was a beer that I brewed, yeah no bias on that. It was a grisette. We did a collaboration with four florists where they all, so so I had this like stupid idea. Matter of fact, in terms of the beer series you've done over the years, there's been some pretty wacky stuff. Yes, wacky stuff for sure and this this was the the dumbest idea that I ever had. But it was the hardest execute. So we had this idea where like, like florists do art, like, like floral arrangements as an art form is a thing. And some of them are just absolutely stunning. So I had the idea of of approaching four local florists and getting them to do an arrangement. And then we get some art done and stick it on the can.
01:00:31
Speaker
We'd tell them what beers we were making and they had to do something that was, you know, that links back to that. And one of them was a Grisette and this was like, uh, uh, you know, a three and a half percent, you know, really light, just lovely Belgian style table ale. And that was incredible.
01:00:48
Speaker
And the, the artwork was awesome. The beer was awesome. And it was the worst seller because nobody knew what a grisette was. Correct. Lucy's gone, you can never make that again. No, but that was deliberate because he was like, just want to drink it all myself. Well, well interestingly, when, when, um, I offered Marty the job, the grisette was on tap and I poured him one and he sat down and we just talked for like an hour about how good the grisette was. And he was like, yeah, I'm sold, you know, so. By the way, Marty, you'll never be allowed to brew one. Yeah. You can brew one. You just have to change the name. Or wait till Lucy's on holiday.
01:01:24
Speaker
Or drink it all ourselves. yeah yeah Well, Phil and Lucy, thank you so much for joining us. No trouble. Cheers. Thank you.
01:01:34
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:01:48
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:02:04
Speaker
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