Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. Hello everyone. It's been a big week um on Crafty Pint. I think Will, don't think there's been a fair bit chat about before we get to the main conversation this week?
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. um So, well, starting with Monday, we ran a story ah after some back and forth with a sales rep in the beer industry who's remained anonymous but wanted to point out some of the changes and challenges in the industry, ah they how they view it. And, I mean, it obviously struck a chord with people, I think. There was a...
Speaker: lot of reps that were pretty quickly to comment on it and business owners as well, and received some private messages as well saying that, yeah, this, this is basically how it is.
Speaker: Um, Yeah, which which is a bit devastating. yeah I mean, overall, it's just, yeah I think does show that the industry, um there is a real fuel relationships, I think, being built. And also while everyone is chasing a bottom line so much and while hospitality groups are emerging, that it's just harder and harder for independent breweries. and And this is another way.
Speaker: It's another challenge. Yeah, I guess the gist of the story was that, you know, this this person's been in the industry a long time, you know, built relationships with a lot of venues over the years and has found recently that even some of the venues that they had a great relationship with, owners that seem to support craft beer,
Speaker: have for whatever reason um seem to be, it's like, that doesn't matter anymore, bring your price down or I'm going to the next person. And also talking about, you know, the risks of small brewers of, ah you know, venues not paying the bills, knowing they can get away with small brewers because they'll, you know, if they ruin relationship, they'll go to the next one in the line.
Speaker: To be honest, Some of these issues have been there at least 10 years. I think we did our first price wars article. I think it a secret brewers one, to be honest, and maybe 10 years ago. Yeah. So, so it's been, it's been around a long time and and and a lot of the issues that were raised again, were, aren't new issues, but i think it's just another thing making it hard. There was some people on social saying, this is one reasons I got out of the industry. And, you know, we've talked to Jane on a different thing about sort of churn and burn in the industry as well.
Speaker: um And I guess, you know, the answer is probably we need people to, think about whether they they care about what they're selling. um But yeah, it's been interesting to get you know comments coming and going, you know best article read all year, which is kind of a sad thing to think when it's actually saying how tough it is out there.
Speaker: But I guess these conversations need to be had um you know to have maybe people thinking about what they're choosing to do. you know I'm sure you can still make a decent dollar, but you know paying a fair price and having a good relationship with independent breweries and offering a good service to people. think there's comment towards the end of the article where the rep says you can tell when a venue's got the right sort of you know ethos or whatever is about it. you know They're the ones to get behind and support.
Speaker: um And yeah, just it's... Yeah, like i said we a bit of back and forth to sort of get to the gist of it and ah some old issues and some new issues and just highlighting you know another way in which it's very tough for small breweries out there in much of the country at the minute.
Speaker: Yeah. And you know, maybe, I dunno, we don't know what the future holds, but I don't think tap contracts are going anywhere anytime soon. you know When you look at the rise of like Maryvale group from Sydney and Oz venue co and, uh, endeavors, ALH as well. Like these places are buying a lot of venues that they, they own so many taps now and you probably can't change that, but.
Speaker: There are venues that, you know, we spoke to Lingie at the start of the year um about the Lincoln and they found a lot of success by doing things authentically. and And there are venues who are finding ways to do that. So I still think there's a way to stand out by being very different from them.
Speaker: i guess part of this person's concern was that so they're sort of engaging in big business while still being owner operated when it it doesn't necessarily need to be that way. You can sort of build partnerships together and you know, rise together. A rising tide lifts all jet skis, as we'll hear from our yeah later in the show.
Speaker: show Yeah, it was interesting, actually, because I've been working on article which also ran this week with Derek and DT, the founders of Bad Shepherd. ah They turned 10 this week, um and they've had, you know, I guess one heck of a um story over the last 10 years, you know, that their business model evolved a few times. They obviously, they're one of the earliest or high profile business needs to go into voluntary administration. and i think they're pretty pleased that not just the 10th birthday is coming, but they're about to exit, you know, they're they're about to fu fulfill all the obligations of their Docker.
Speaker: um and have that sort of signed off soon as well. um But one of the, like you know, number 10 on the, you know, they're saying the most important thing and one of them was how you can't chase price. You know, that you you can't get into that sort of price wars kind of thing, which a number of businesses, especially a number of those that ended up in voluntary administration or liquidation have done.
Speaker: And so, you know, that's, They're not sales reps, they're business owners. And, you know, they're seeing it from that perspective as well. um But yeah, and then there was some, you know, some great insight from them as well. They both come from a corporate background. so I think, you know, they'll have a different viewpoint the way they've they see the the industry to some other people that might be, you know, home brewers have stepped up or, you know, a bunch of mates who've got together.
Speaker: But it was interesting to see that, you know, but when we were working on the final stages of the secret sales rep article that here was this other piece was working on that people knew nothing about and they were highlighting one of the same issues as well.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. it's It's a, it's such a constant conversation, particularly being from Melbourne, the keg price for flagship craft beer, independent beer in Melbourne has been sort of far too low for far too long. And I think pubs are, have built that into their business model as well. So again, I don't know if it's going anywhere, yeah,
Speaker: Yeah, there there are people finding success through other means, I think, and and by building genuine relationships, or at least that's how success came early on, I think, for craft beer too. So it doesn't mean it can't work that way in the future. And someone who's been on the road for probably longer than almost anyone else ah won't have to be maybe on the road so long with ah Joel from Venom Beer securing a home in the heart of the Melbourne CBD. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, a few more taps for craft beer back at one of the first places that have taps for craft beer in Melbourne as well. um So yeah, Joel, you're talking about how long he's been. I think the first time i met Joel, he was a Moobrew rep and he came wandering up my driveway with the big Joel grin on his face, holding a four pack of that year's Imperial Stout. So his first meetings go, was a pretty good one.
Speaker: um And he yeah he launched Venom, more I think it was a decade ago now. um He's got the district bottle shop A bottle store in Pascoe Vales, opened another one very close to to my house, which is sort of work in progress at the minute, trying to turn that into a um bar as well as a bottle shop.
Speaker: ah Bandwagon beverage as well, distributing a number of you know beer brands as well as um spirits and so on. um But yeah, so he's taken over the former Mrs. Palmer's, which closed a while ago, has had other owners since then.
Speaker: um And he's turned it into a Venom taproom, which will also be a showcase for um other independent brands as well. um So that's a sort of positive step because, you know as people have said in the, you know, in response to that article,
Speaker: it is pretty tough to find you know craft beer, independent craft beer in the city. Just considering the history that Melbourne has over the last 15 years in terms of helping drive craft beer, whether through things like Good Beer Week, you know the launch of Gabs was here and being sort of like,
Speaker: the the place where it was probably the most early success through venues um it isn't necessarily, you know, as easy as you might think to find ah range of, you know, independent beers around the city. So, you know, best of luck to Joel, hoping to be open ASAP.
Speaker: um He, you know, I think we were sort of, can we say next week? He's like, I'll just say mid-November. You're never quite certain of these things, but it's certainly imminent anyway. Yeah, and it it is very interesting to see the comments. It felt like we're evenly divided by people being stoked that Venom has a venue now and people being stoked by just there being a better craft beer offering in the city. It's like half and half people were just as excited about that as they were by Venom actually getting tap room. Normally it's the arrival of ah of a home or a spiritual home that that gets people super excited. And James, the story you' you're just finishing off from Western Australia as well.
Speaker: Yes, this is something that's come about through the guys at Frothcraft Brewery. and I was lucky enough to, we did a podcast interview with Pete, one of the founders, not long ago. Really lovely guys. Their head brewer, John Marcus, is an army vet.
Speaker: He's been with them a while. He found out about this organization called Pillars for Pilgrims, also a sort of grassroots WA organization founded by fellow vets, looking to kind of fill some of the gaps that they see in support for...
Speaker: um ex-forces people. um i won't go into too much detail, but you know they sort of really talk about the you know the number of friends, yeah i guess issue you know sort of i guess, issues they they're dealing with in their personal life, the number of friends they've lost, you know mostly more often through suicide after they leave the forces than when they're you know in in the forces themselves.
Speaker: And so this this organization, it's been started by this and these two mates and and one of their guys sisters and just all through fundraising trying to sort of support people to get what they need um create a community for wa vets they've been sending people overseas on tours sending people for you know um rare treatment that that's um having great results and so they've made a beer that's going to be launched at the freeo beer fest this weekend all australian ingredients uh some local suppliers i've got on board as well um and i guess i know fundraising beers aren't necessarily a new thing in the world of australian beer but it felt like this one you know it had a real um lovely grassroots thing about it and that connection the fact that you know john's got into brewing post you know 20 years in the military um with tours to you know afghanistan to kuwait over the years and yeah just it just seemed yes good good a good story to tell and you know and something i think you know um
Speaker: Often a spotlight isn't it meant maybe sort shown on just how you know tough it can be for people when they come out of the forces trying to you know re-assimulate, reintegrate back into, into I guess, what we'd call normal society. But for them, from some of the conversations I've had, like it's not normal. they you know but They've got so used to the normal of being in the forces like Adam, who's one of the founders of this of the organization.
Speaker: He said that once he got back, he'd like be walking through Bunnings and start having massive panic attacks and couldn't work out where he was and had to get out. Like it's, you know, for someone who's never been anywhere near the forces to sort of realize that's what people people can be dealing with is quite, you know, it's quite i'm remarkable, really.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's launching at Freo Beer Fest this week. So if you're there, make sure you give the beer a try. And on to this week's guest. A couple of people we've wanted to have on the podcast from the start, I think. um And a very exciting brewery in Seca from ah Wollongong. It's hopefully an easy listen because...
Speaker: A bit of warning, Jeff and Curtis are identical twins. So they do sound a little bit similar, but I think they do a good job of letting us know who's talking when. And if you watch it, you'll see that Jeff's wearing a hat.
Speaker: Curtis has put earrings in as well. Yeah, so a bit of background on Seeker. Jeff jeff started Grass Nolbering as a contract brand when he was still living in Sydney. Him and Curtis played in bands together.
Speaker: they They didn't mention the band name. I wondered if they wanted to, but after the chat, I gave Pira a good long listen on Spotify. That's P-I-R-R-A. It's a... Yeah, well, they they'll tell you they almost went on some world tours. So COVID really put an end to that.
Speaker: But once Jeff moved down to Wollongong, he started brewing at Bulleye Brewery, which had been around for some years beforehand. And then ah as the owner of that brewery was looking sort of... um maybe find a way to exit the industry. They took over and relaunched as Seeker. Obviously, Grassy Knoll is a Bondi, a famous place in Bondi. So it made more sense, but they sort of go into what the Seeker name is as well and what their focus is.
Speaker: Yeah. And they've managed to maintain, I think, that connection between sort of indie beer and indie music as well. They a lot of gigs at their venue um and not just sort of the sort of music they used to play. They were talking about flamenco, salsa, reggae gigs and whatever, and even a how you know, if they've had a tough week or whatever and just getting yeah down by the grind of running a small business, they'll come in you know on a Friday or Saturday night and see some awesome world music band playing and people drinking. and They'll be like,
Speaker: This is this a good thing we're doing. um And yeah, and they've they've also done some pretty innovative stuff as well with their Art of Flight, you know, big beers and small cans. they've They give us a bit of a heads up on some other new projects they're working on.
Speaker: And they're just a lot of fun to listen to. Like you could almost ask one question and set them off because as, I guess, identical twins, they just kind of prompt each other to keep going back and forth as well. Yeah, yeah. And shout out as well to Ben Bora, who was in a past article we did. he He's one of the founders as well and the heads up, he lives in Brisbane, but ah heads up the sort of wholesale side of the business and some marketing and events outside the brewery.
Speaker: And he was featured in our Chronically Crafty article from a few years ago, where we spoke to people, including spoke to myself about people um working in craft beer and uh with chronic health conditions so we'll include a link to ben's story in the show notes too good stuff and so yes the the chat with ah jeff and kurtz comes up after the break before we get to that and don't forget we're hosting a festive feast at molly rose and with without some of our friends from the brewing and distilling world uh we've got holly clintworth from baston flinner's distillery um jimmy krekelberg from goodland brewing goodland beer or goodland brewing i forget which one they
Speaker: they prefer and dunk gibson one of the founders of hop nation coming along plus of course nick sandry the founder of molly rose that's on december the 4th so we'll include a link to ticketing for that and there's obviously a discount for our crafty cabal members as well um also don't forget to get your nominations in for bluestone yeast brewery of the month we'll be announcing the next winner next week and later in this show we'll be um announcing the latest winner in our have you done a rallying's celebration of good beer citizens um so that'll be coming up in the middle of the chat with jeff and kurt So enjoy the chat. And if you do make sure you leave us comment, like, subscribe. It helps other people find the show.
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Speaker: Visit craftbrewingsolutions.com.au to support your next brewery move. Jeff and Curtis, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. I'm excited.
Speaker: You're our first twins on the podcast as well, which is very exciting. You know, if you're not last, you're first. well know as well has been Will has been at pains to point out that we should, as often as we can, for those that are listening rather than watching, saying, good question, Jeff, good question, Kurt, or good answer or whatever, just to try and make but add a bit of clarity for anyone as well.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. That's why I put the earrings in today just to, yeah.
Speaker: Thank you, Pat. yeah
Speaker: Excellent. Well, I guess, you know, starting at the start, um for the uninitiated, can you tell us a little bit about who and what is Seeker Brew? Yeah, so it's um I guess it's myself and Curtis with some lovely family and friends who've been involved. um Special mention to Ben, who's like heavily involved with this as well, and um a lot of supporters in the local area of Wollongong.
Speaker: So we've sort of focused in Yenindera, which is where the brewery is situated. And yeah, we although that we're like situated in Wollongong, we've always identified as a brewery that's kind of like pushed our beers like Australian white.
Speaker: So we focused a lot on wholesale as well as kind of, you know, a taproom experience. But wholesale has been a big, strong push for us. And why so why Seeker?
Speaker: Yeah. ah it's you know, it's like, we'll get into this, but I think it's like coming up with band name that sort of resonates with who you are, you know, and like what you identify with. And I think Seeker really resonated with the whole adventure seeking and surf seeking, music seeking.
Speaker: Also just beer seeking, like, you know, this cheesy as it sounds. We love exploring new things all the time and new, like new recipes and beers and like, like a lot of brewers out there, but,
Speaker: we just found that name really suited us as soon as we sort of come up with the name seeker it was like yeah this is like this is the one seeking for a name really like the the big part of it was especially um you know identifying ourselves as like a woollongong brewery you know we we tapped right into it and this is uh big credit to jeff tapped into like kind of the the um the adventure scene here you know the mountain biking the surfing and the um and I don't know, just the the outdoors lifestyle and and, you know, it kind of ah played into that whole script of us, you know, being outdoors and getting amongst the, you know, the activities that like this lovely South Coast has to offer. And it just, yeah, it just fits, you know, just fits.
Speaker: Yeah, the more we sort of talked it over before we started, it was like, yeah, it's totally like what we're about and what we want to continue with. and And even the name, and we might get into it later, but there's a lot of things we want to do with the brand and stuff.
Speaker: So maybe outside of the beer world, which is kind of cool. I'll make a note to ask that question and follow question later. and you guys from Are you from the um Wollongong area originally or is that where you sort of gravitated to?
Speaker: question. No, we're actually not. We grew up in the north coast near Coffs Harbour. um This little town called Barraville. Grew up on a dairy farm there and went through school there and both moved to Sydney to study music. We had scholarship to study music, which is like not our plan, to be honest. And then ah With the scholarship and the opportunity to study in Sydney, it was like, that sounds fun. So I went up doing that, lived in Sydney for 12 years.
Speaker: I moved down to Wollongong actually for the opportunity. Actually, no, I should say I moved down for a girl. so sir Classic. And then had the opportunity to like contract brew at a brewery here, which is what Seeker is now.
Speaker: But I ended up like I was brewing my own beers here, which is cool. yeah so so So when you were doing the Grassy Knoll beers, you were making them at at the same place you're in now? Yeah, at the end.
Speaker: The first, when we started Grassy Knoll was at Frenchies Brewing. Okay. yeah Grassy Knolls is a Sydney landmark, right? So you were sort of, obviously you thought at that time the focus would be on Sydney rather than Wollongong.
Speaker: Yeah, well, we both live in the city at the time and ah well, Curtis is mainly doing producing at this point, but I um started the grass and oil with another partner and he um he lived in Bondi. So he that was kind of his concept, I guess.
Speaker: And I had the opportunity to kind of get the license and get the branding going and brew the beers for it with Frenchies because I knew Vince. So I'd already like been in a few homebrew camps and sort of was connecting there with the commercial side of things.
Speaker: So that, that sort of all started it all really. And then, um, yeah, we moved, we moved on to like Wollongong. It was it as a it' definitely a natural stepping stone to come to Wollongong.
Speaker: I mean, I feel like my time in Sydney was coming to an end. You know, we definitely spent the best part of our, like, 20s and early 30s, you know, playing all the shows, going to all the venues, like, you know, just milk milking everything Sydney had. and um definitely the country was was calling out for us to kind of maybe move back north. But seeing as Jeffrey like met a girl down here, was like, man, like Wollongong, who moves to Wollongong, you know? And this was pre-COVID, got remember. And so when I came down here to like, you know, catch up with Jeff and
Speaker: um we went for a surf and checked out the area. i was like, oh my God, this is like, this is such a beautiful like um place. And it was, it just felt like such a, you know, natural progression, you know,
Speaker: on our way back to the country, but you know we're still connected to Sydney and we're still like you know they're still like there's atmosphere here, there's still industry, there's still lots of young professionals you know doing their thing, they've got the university here. So it was, everything kind of just yeah i don't know that yeah i i want to run for mayor for wollongong in the next couple years i absolutely love this area to the detriment of my family back home because i you know i i miss them and it you know i'm we've moved further away but wollongong's just got so much to offer i think yeah and the local wollongong people wouldn't would hate me
Speaker: you know, blowing its trumpet. But yeah, stunning. Is this your official announcement of you're running for mayor? Then can we put this thing out there? Yeah. Yeah. All the locals are like, sh don't tell anyone, you know. yeah we yeah And so have you guys sort of spent more time living together or in the same place than apart? You know, and what what's it like sort of, you know, obviously being twins, but then running a business together?
Speaker: but so good Good question. sweet We've always basically lived in the same area. So we both moved to Sydney, ah like long story short. And then when I moved to Wollongong, I think you moved six months, five months later.
Speaker: ah But, yeah, we I think we've always just gravitated to doing the same thing. So when we studied music, we were both into that and we were playing around the same bands and doing session stuff. So always around the same people.
Speaker: um And going back before that, we grew up in a small town, so there's not many people that you can – they be pick and choosy with so it's like we're all hanging out just hanging through but I mean I laugh because you know more to the point it's um you know but obviously we've spent ah when we were at uni we were living in a share house together played in bands together as Jeffrey mentioned but you know then we've gone off ah with our own partners respectively you know spent you know big chunks of life you know living with them but every now and again you know
Speaker: you know, those relationships will end and, you know, you've always got like a fallback. You're like, all right, bro, like, you know, you've got that, I'm on off that spare room, you know, it so we'll always come back together. Like it goes without question. It's like, you know, that's, there's always like a backup plan kind of thing. I'm ashamed to say I've stayed on his couch a few times after. Relationships gone bad. Yeah, so it's nice. It's fucking awesome, you know, really, at the end of the day.
Speaker: ah It's, yeah, very like very lucky to have that. But it's a pretty cool – I think it's pretty cool. I was heavily into brewing while Curtis was focusing on production, music production.
Speaker: he was like – I think you were more just annoyed that I wasn't putting the time into the band because I was like, you know, busy, like brewing a beer, selling beer. This is in the grassy knoll days. ah Drum machines were really taken off at the point ah that time.
Speaker: It really sort of hit a point, I guess, when like we had the opportunity to get the venue set up Seeker. I was like, you're going to need help. And it's just, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: You basically came on, joined the wave, joined the party wave. simple But again, like it was, Sika happened right at the, the the end of um COVID, you know, so um there was two years of just kind of like, wow, like the music industry was kind of, you know, in a state of confusion. i didn't know what was happening, you know, there was just, it didn't seem like there was much future, not to say that there weren't many options at the time, but like when when this opportunity came up, you know, through Jeffrey, all was like, wow, this, that's pretty
Speaker: you know incredible like you know we we could do we could do a lot here you know and i can see a live music venue here and i i feel like i can help out in in a way that allowed jeffrey to focus more on the beers and i could kind of help with the space you know in the in the tap room so yeah it seemed to work and Even to this day, you know, I mean, I could talk with the best of them with ah about beers, but still, you know, I don't know the science behind brewing. I don't know, you know, kind of the intricacies that go into it, you know. And I've always, i you know, sort of positioned myself where I don't want to get too involved because that's Geoffrey's bag, you know. and
Speaker: And being a twin, like, we're quick to disagree and quick to kind of like, you know, um argue.
Speaker: time We're all so quick to just get over it and you know move on to the next thing. So I've kind of like made sure that I've kind of you you know i focused on my lane, which has helped Jeffrey.
Speaker: I like to think focus on beers you know and like let him let him really stretch his legs there so i think like we kind of i'm sort of back of house and curtis is the front of house so he does does all the venue booking like the music booking and like organizes the bar and the pizza chakram sort of out the back brewing beers and organizing releases and all things brewing cold sale Well, the good thing is you're such a good double act. I feel we don't even need to really ask any questions because you just keep going back and forth and pushing the conversation forward as well. So this is great. did a hundred people run over the questions, so I think we're skipping. Bye.
Speaker: um Well, I mean, you talk you talk about the beers there. I mean, to people who haven't yet had a Seeker beer or those sad people missing out on your delicious full-flavoured offerings, you know, is there a particular ethos behind Seeker brewing beers, or you know, or ah you talked about seeking, you know, trying new things, but, you know, there something that's particularly close to your heart?
Speaker: Yeah, like I think, you know, i like yeah i was I was going to try and avoid saying we like making IPAs, but... I think really deep down inside, we're just like making full-flavored, unapologetic big beers, whether that be – even if it's a mid-strength, just packed to the rafters with hops as much as we can.
Speaker: It's drinkable. Or whether that be a huge stout or just a big IPA that – for new hop combo or like, you know, we've just recently got to spend some time in New Zealand and last year I got to go to the States. So there's some like hops that we've sort now got hands on that's just been so cool to use and and push the boundaries with. So and there's no half measures with this. I just, but so they like a lot of people ask me about brewing like a, you know, a sessionable payload and stuff like that. And I'm just, I don't know. I can't, I just can't bring myself to it. I think there's a lot of,
Speaker: is a lot There's a lot of breweries out there that are doing it really well and doing it like, you know, like that's the beers I'll probably drink too at a party. But I think for our for our thing, it's like, well,
Speaker: you know what what can we do that's exciting for us and and my point not a point of difference because a lot of breweries are doing this well too but something that you know sparks interest or gains a smile or like a bit of a wow or you know like we we just really we love like that reaction whether yeah but hopefully good I remember trying your first releases, you know, yeah and like the core range as well.
Speaker: And that was certainly my impression. It was like, the beers were all good, which was, you know, positive. You didn't have your first experience with the brand, but also like, was like, God, they're so hoppy and they're so big and flavoursome. It was like so much, yeah, so much crammed into them. Even if it was like your XPA or whatever, it was like, okay, there's an XPA with some real, you know, behind it.
Speaker: Yeah. That's sort of kind of, we sit in a really, I think we sit a good spot. I mean, probably our accountant doesn't think so, but just because we can, we're a smaller brewery, so we can like, we can push that sort of thing. You know, we don't have that sort of economy of scale where we really need to like, you know, cut 5% here and there. yeah.
Speaker: You know, it's like, oh, let let's just throw that extra bag in because, you know, I'm not feeling it in this beer. So if we can, it's not going to, you know, it's not going to turn our business on its head. So even with core beer, sometimes we, I mean, they they stay really consistent, but we've experimented with different yeast strains.
Speaker: um Some have been really good and we've improved the core beer, but some have, you know, obviously it's like, let's not do that again, but it's such a small run. You know, as much as I hate to say that, like, you know, we weren't consistent, you know, we're still trying to improve, like, you know, even our core beers all the time. And for instance, our we had a mid-strand called Little Hazy. It's now Ripples. We changed the hop combo.
Speaker: It's still essentially the same beer, but we're using one different hop. and ah The yeast has changed over the years because we now use Mogwai. Shout out to Josh at Mogwai.
Speaker: um There's little things like that. So it's so hard to sit still on a core beer for us. And I like shout out to breweries that can do it and made the same beer like consistently for 10 years and and and not get sucked into a trend where it's like this is not on trend now.
Speaker: oh Whereas... I would love to probably do a little bit more of that only because I love like exploring new things all the time. um I guess that's the Seeker ethos.
Speaker: This is a great segue for the other flight. first Yeah, well, was going to say before we even get into that, like, um you know, you haven't necessarily found a slowdown in limited releases because over the last couple of years, a lot of breweries have sort of gone, oh, no, we need to be more cautious. And smaller cans aside, it feels like,
Speaker: uh seeker has kept going really hard on big full flavored sort of higher end slightly more expensive beers like you really haven't broken away from that yeah i mean there's such small batches that we can afford to do that i think and uh we we have a lot of love out there from seeker fans i guess but um we've had i think from the start we've had just good success with limited so it's a big part of what we do and that sort of helps drive our wholesale mostly like we we actually maybe trying to move in towards pushing more of our core beer to like on-prem stuff but um our limit is such a big part of like i think our sales that it's hard to sacrifice that and do the core where i think you know like that's that's been our plan from the start but
Speaker: When you're looking at consistent keg sales, which is something we're trying to focus on a bit more, that's a core beer kind of thing. That's regular beer. That's on the menu, kind of tap-list beer.
Speaker: So, sort of accepting that kind of commercial role a little bit more. But one thing we don't want to do is change our limited schedule, which is roughly kind of four new beers a month.
Speaker: like it Like, and, you know, going back last year, I think, you know, the whole industry felt kind of the pressure of like the moving trends towards kind of low ABV, maybe kind of up lower carb beers.
Speaker: And that sent us into a little bit of a panic, to be honest, you know, we're like, wow, like, you know, our whole ethos is really just, you know, going, you know, more is more kind of thing. Um, you know, and that's how we came up with the Art of Flight, you know not a new concept, but like, basically it was an idea that I yeah put, put to Jeff where it was like, man, I want these guys to keep exploring and keep pushing the envelope kind of thing.
Speaker: But you know, like, man, no one had money. Like we, every, everyone was huckle pinching and ah Even me, you know, i I want to try every single new beer.
Speaker: It just becomes unrealistic, you know. But if everyone put them in little pocket-sized beers, that'd be fantastic, you know. We'd all win. We'd all be stoked, you know, like especially for a lot of people who live in more rural areas that can't get can't do the brewery circuit, you know.
Speaker: He says it in an inspiring way, but Curtis was just annoyed and like he'd just constantly just badger me like, man, I'm sick of trying everyone's beers in 440ml cans. I went 250, summer hit and miss. You've got to take the misses. But right it's a lot of there's a lot of amazing views out there.
Speaker: ah How did you go about sort of finding the right price point for that? Because um you know obviously there's less liquid and you could just go, all right, there's this much less liquid for compared to this. But I'm assuming there's higher cost...
Speaker: elsewhere, you know, with the smaller cans and having to adjust the, but you know, the canning packaging line or whatever. So how did you sort of work out where, you know, what's fair, but it was also going to make it worthwhile for you? know what's, you know, what's interesting, like you can drop the price on those smaller cans because you, you can can more of them basically per batch.
Speaker: So your cost of goods come down. That was actually a surprising thing because I straight away had that same thought. But once you really break it down, it's like, it becomes a little bit I wouldn't say it's quite as good as a sort of a 440 500 mil can, but it's better than a 375. Better than a 375. So we're quite surprised there. Yeah, go figure, right?
Speaker: But we we really wanted to, I mean, when we first bought it out, we we probably put on the lower price point of what we wanted. um And it was was designed to be mixed and matched, we tried to set a price point that,
Speaker: you know, the stronger, more expensive, typically expensive beers, you know, we'd lose a little bit on that. but We'd make it, not to talk like economics, but, you know, we'd sort of like average it out. So, you know, you kind of won on some, but, you know, you lost on others. and But that way it allowed people to just kind of mix a match it.
Speaker: And we just wanted to take the confusion out of it, you know. It was just like you just buy a bunch and you get a set price for it, you know, no matter what it was kind of thing. But we always make sure that it was within reason. It was like, you know, it was always above 7%.
Speaker: seven percent It's tough because there's that shrink shrink economy, shrinkflation idea. And that's what probably some of the backlash we had. But when you really broke down what how many standard drinks you get in those little cans and the price, like if you put that in a 500ml can, that's over $50.
Speaker: Yeah, it's about a $50 four pack, which is pretty standard. We wanted to make make it that like if you bought two 250ml cans, you're still paying the same price for, I don't want to say names, but like a 500ml can by one of the other big crop beer guys. same the day you know when when When a dairy's putting their butter out in a smaller pack, they're not making the butter stronger, are they? so Yeah.
Speaker: right not Yeah. i what did When you went in, did you think this is high risk? Is is anyone actually going to buy these or you know did you have a bit of confidence that it was going to, because you know, you obviously, they've kept kept coming at a pretty regular rate. So presumably they're, you know, they're selling through and it's worked out for you.
Speaker: Like some, some of our like regular, you know, vendors or they, but Yeah, it was crazy. They were like, no, we don't want to touch 250 mil cans.
Speaker: It's like a whole like feng shui in the fridge, you know. It's like, well, okay, no worries. um um Yeah, they they just didn't even think of, they didn't even look into the price. They didn't even look into the kind of the packaging. But other people really embraced it. You know, there is a little bit more that kind of...
Speaker: you know mix it like you know to do single 250ml cans and let people mix and match. There's a little bit more effort on the bottle shop side, on the retail side. don't know, yeah. it so a but but but Yeah, but it took off straight away, I guess. you know We've had really good reviews from people who aren't big craft beer drinkers and they've gone like, oh man, that's such a good concept. We could bought it for my dad and gave me a chance to try some beer.
Speaker: The whole thing is to try and get people to It's like, let's say it's not a novelty, but like there's a novelty factor because it's new-ish like for people. So it's oh, okay, like someone can like try like a fun-sized can like out of flight, you know, take away flight.
Speaker: So yeah, we we've had responses that have just like surprised us a lot. And then, you know, those guys who are like traditionalists, all like, you know, want that big can, big beer, like, you know, they might not like it as much, but...
Speaker: They're still buying it. um not Yeah. um madgie Maybe this is like from from a music gaze, but as soon as you're getting a little bit of that pushback or like some negative like commentary on your releases, I think but that's when you're starting to like hit like a real groove.
Speaker: yeah Not to say that you know it always has to be like you know love or hate, but you know I think that's when you know you start to... hey People are questioning your product. you know people There's confusion. They're like, what's going on? Is this going to change the whole industry? like Why are they doing small pants? I don't know. It starts the chat.
Speaker: and no yeah you like And it also helps you sleep at night when you do get some of those right yeah safe that know negative comments. But but like they're one in. 100 or 200, I don't know.
Speaker: I think it's a good point talking about like people thinking it's like this new trend. So suddenly they think all the beers are going to be 250 mil cans now because that's how breweries need to make money. But no, it's not that at all. Like we always wanted to just push big beers. Like we've got some butterfly beers coming out for Chrissy, so stay tuned. But like they're huge beers.
Speaker: but They're ridiculous in a full 40 mil can. you know, whether it be ABV or like just flavour, like super thick or sweet or bitter. So, you know, that's what the intention is to like explore, like, you know, push the envelope there.
Speaker: Not so much like, you know, how can we make more money and things? Yeah, it's funny because I got, I mean, I probably shouldn't divulge this, but, you know, every time I work the bar here at the brewery,
Speaker: you know when you know someone grabs a ah full pack of 440s and i'm putting a sale through it i'm like like you know does this guy know like what the craft beer market is like you know like you know this is going to cost you 45 let's say let's say yeah And it's always, you know, because I know what goes into it. I know the cost of goods. You know, I do all the back end and the book work.
Speaker: But, you know, at the same time, I'm sitting at a bar like selling this fork hack to like, you know, the unassuming customer. And I'm like, wow, you know, so it's like the state of conflict. So I try not to work the bar too much because don't know what it costs to run the business. But it really is like, a you know, you're sort of in the middle. You're like, okay, well, you know, what do we do here? And like,
Speaker: at the time like the 250 milk cans made sense because people couldn't explore but yeah you know i i think most people now like it's you know we're well past that that era of like people being shocked at the pass across fear but still i think there needs to be more like more needs to be done about especially in mullingang i think like you know with kind of you know what really goes into it and um and you know, what people expect in terms of price point and you know, what what is it, you know, what what but you should be paying for.
Speaker: Well, that or you find the team member with the best poker face to be selling those expensive games. Yeah, exactly. There's no flicker of guilt. It's just dead eyes as they take the money and hand them over. That's why I don't want to buy.
Speaker: It's guilt on both ends, you know what I mean? We're never going to make money if I keep giving 20% discount to everyone else in the bar. Oh, no. and like I guess before we sort come on to talk about, I guess, ah the other side of Seeker, the live music and, you know, your sort of lives outside of beer, I guess, you know, you seem to be really, bad a lot of collaboration takes place throughout the industry on a regular basis, but you guys seem to really pushed hard into that. You know, hey you have your regular and collaboration events.
Speaker: Is there any sort of particular reason for that? you know, have you just made some good mates in the industry or do you see that as something that's sort of core part of of what craft beer is about? Yeah, all the above, I think.
Speaker: Firstly, the collaborations that we've done, i mean, for me personally as a brewer, it's like, it's probably been the best way to learn new techniques, new tricks, like new recipes.
Speaker: So that's a big one. I mean, you get confidence to is explore your ideas. Yeah. And then someone telling you like, you know, like, let's go harder, let's do this. Like, have you tried this? Like, I think.
Speaker: Sounds like Nick called a skulls to me. 100%. 100%. Yeah. yeah That was a, yeah, we've had a fun club with him. I think that goes back to kind of playing music and it's, it's like, they always used to say, just like try and play with people that are better than you, you know, because like, you want, like that's how you get better. and You know, we've taken that approach with like collabs, but, i and you know, as well as like playing with people that you want to play with.
Speaker: like what brewing, who you want to brew with. So that's always been an approach. And like, as a lot of people know, collabs are like some of the funnest days you have is brewing. It's a chance to just get out of your own little like routine and go have a beer at someone else's brewery or they come to yours and you can like shout the beers while they watch you brew or you get to go to them and watch them brew.
Speaker: um Apart from that, I think i think that's getting into craft brewing like at the start was I've always felt that like that was the craft beer scene. It's like collaborating and hanging out and yeah, that's, we don't make a lot of money in this industry.
Speaker: So I think it's like, let's have fun while we do it. And that really is kind of like those sort of moments where you're like, God, I love this, like industry and loveless job, but yeah. Yeah. and Like the education from it's invaluable.
Speaker: I think that's helped us like, but But also collaborating with like nombraries, right? Yeah. Especially for Longwood. Yeah, at the start we collaborated with, um you know, shirt brand, surf brand and seeing how they market things and see how they go about things as well as like, you know, you sort of targeting their audience.
Speaker: It's, you can learn a lot from everything, really. And makes it makes fun. I think doing things on your own is cool, but, you know, it's better together, that kind of mentality. Yeah.
Speaker: Cool. Well, we might take a quick break and we'll be right back. Cheers. It's time for Have You Done A Rowlings? Proudly presented by the legends at Rowlings labels. For the very best digitally printed cans and cartons with no MOQ, visit rowlingsprint.com.au and chat to Brad and Paul today.
Speaker: Hello friends, Will and James here back with another Have You Done A Rowlings campaign. James, what a fitting winner we have for you right now. ah the Well, the nomination has come from a past winner, one of our earlier winners, um Michael Chihotsky.
Speaker: ah Pretty sure I've got his name right this time. he i think last time we saw him at his brewery in Tumut, he actually wrote it out for us phonetically on the bar because you wouldn't think it was actually pronounced that way.
Speaker: um But Michael was one of the earlier winners and he's and now become a nominat nominator of someone he thinks is worthy of being recognised as one of Australia's good beer citizens.
Speaker: So yes, we've got a past winner as a nominee and also a past guest as a winner and another Jeff as well. Not the Jeff you're listening to right now from Seeker, but ah from ah a bit of a drive away, Jeff from Cypher Brewing, Canberra's wonderful newish brew pub. If you want to hear more about their story, you can catch him in a previous Crafty Pint podcast episode.
Speaker: So Michael says that they were at Kangaroo Valley Craft Beer Festival a few months back, and after packing up the van and ready to hit the road for two minutes, they discovered that their battery was completely dead.
Speaker: No jumps that could fire life into the old thing and not too many mechanics around at 6 p.m. on a Sunday in the Kangaroo Valley. They were, you know, getting ready to set up camp or whatever, live the rest of their lives in the Kangaroo Valley, and just as they were looking to extend their stay, um...
Speaker: Jeff came along and not only was he willing to help, but he actually had a brand new, the right kind of battery. I don't know why he's carrying batteries on him, but he had one in his ute and he proceeded to install it ah for the Tumit team. And rather than, you know, packing up the stand or kicking off for a beer with the rest of the crew and relaxing, he he helped Tumit get home.
Speaker: um i want um And Michael signs off with bloody legend, which I think seems fair enough. So congratulations to Jeff at Cypher. Thanks to Michael for the nomination. ah Maybe Jeff will come up with a future nomination as well and we can keep sort of passing this down the line like a baton.
Speaker: um But yeah, if you know anyone that's gone out over and above to help anybody out in the craft beer world or is just a genuine, you know, good beer citizen, then please get your nominations in at craftypint.com slash Rallings.
Speaker: um Rallings offers ah a voucher as a prize to both the person who makes the nomination and to the winner, which can be used for any of their printing, labels, and stickers. They've got a wide offering.
Speaker: So um thanks to the guys at Rallings for supporting this. Thanks to again to Michael and thanks to Jeff for being a wonderful human being. Yeah, if you're ever at a craft beer festival, you got to hope that Cypher are there and have those batteries in their vans.
Speaker: and Enjoy the rest of the show. Cheers. Cheers. Need something printed, but it's only a short run? Talk to Rallings. Whether it's cans, cartons or coasters, Rallings has a solution for you.
Speaker: Visit rallyingsprint.com.au today. Welcome back. And, guys, we have hinted at it a lot and talked around it, but what about your relationship with music? Obviously, you were in a band together and I think still play together, right? Jeff, obviously, you were on drums by the sounds of things if a machine could replace you.
Speaker: Curtis, what were you doing? yeah bassist we both so we've been playing music that most of our life but we got an opportunity to go and study it uh in in Sydney so I studied bass Japanese studied drums and yeah contemporary art of what did we do music yeah yeah Yeah, that you know, this formidable twin section, as I say.
Speaker: Yeah, rhythm section. And you toured fairly extensively, is that right? I mean, you were still touring, I think, when Grassi Knoll launched, you know, the pre-Seeker brand.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, I was very much like had my finger in two pies there. So we were digging a lot. Like our band was... start to like get a bit of traction and you know some opportunities came up and stuff so it was like very much like gosh what am I doing like you know one minute I'm selling beer next minute I'm going on tour and trying to juggle all that I was trying to sort tie it all in together which easier than you think with you know the two industries really do like tie together a lot like beer and music i mean you know they're both like entertaining in their own sense so yeah if you can provide live music and
Speaker: get people drunk, like, you know, job well done. i know And it's something that you've been able to do with once why don't you've taken the venue as well. You've had some pretty big gigs there. You know, like we've spoken in the past about how you've been able to offer another platform for local musicians and local bands and in indie bands as well, because I mean, we had a chat to Jade at the Wheatie roughly about a year ago. I think, you know, and the Wheatie is an amazing supporter of live music and just challenges they've had running, you know finding independent venues that aren't tied to one of the, you know, the bigger multinationals now that, you know, own every every level of the touring industry. So, I mean, is that something that I guess you care more about, but you'd be happy to do through Seeker?
Speaker: Yeah, and look, it's funny, ah again, and i have to, like, you know might know, go back to what I was saying about, like, selling beer at the bar and then also doing the book work for the brewery. It's like, you know, i've I've been on the other end where I've, like, played the gigs in the hustle possible venues for work and now I'm, you know, booking musicians and bands for the venue. And it's it's a really – cetera really strange kind of position to be in because I want to support all my my friends, you know, all all the artists that up I've known over the years.
Speaker: But it's also you've draw the line somewhere, you know, and you've got to walk that fine line between, you know, kind of you you want to like, you know, pay these artists like what they're worth. but You need to bring bums on seats. Yeah, you also need to get people through the door.
Speaker: But I feel like especially in Wollongong where that there's a really – There's, there's, and we, led I lent into it like really early on where it's like, we have really pushed towards that like world music scene, you know, more so than the indie local scene. It's like that world music scene where a lot of these minority communities around the area, especially South Coast going down to Kiama everywhere, where we'll put on like, yeah, it's like salsa gigs. We'll put on flamenco gigs. We'll put on of, you know, could be, you know, Afro beat.
Speaker: gigs you know reggae gigs and it's you know there is such a thirst and hunger for that um we've seen a big turnout for like yeah quite obscure shows like yeah tomorrow night we've got a flamenco show and it's always done really well and yeah it's really cool to see like flamenco in a breeze yeah like it's you know it's dead silent and you're hearing every like every note every word like you can You can hear the um tanks bubbling in the background, you know, like the dancer steps up the stage. and You know, it's I think like it's in um it's amazing to see this space like become that for the community around us and, you know, not to get sentimental, but I think it's beautiful. It's great. It brings in such a diverse range of people. and And, you know, half the time, like a lot of those people aren't the, you know, craft beer,
Speaker: drinking, you know, demographic. But, you know, they're still coming to your venue and they're seeing what you're doing and what you're about. It's great. It still fills the room. and Telling Jeff to put less flavour in his beers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: what like Why is his beer pink? You know, that's crazy. All the black lager on that night or wine, basically. But that's okay. and I'm super passionate about it. It's just, it's crazy, like, to, you know, try and keep you know, nurturing that sort of angle with the venue, but also, you know, making sure that, you know, we're not, you know,
Speaker: um you know falling falling short in terms of how do you manage it logistically because i mean obviously it's a full production brewery at least you know part of the time and the venue is it a large enough space that you can go this is the bands in the hospital or is there a ton of moving stuff around every time you want to get a band it's chaos it's mental man yeah so we got one door in one door out and it's you know we put the uh The green room is the the brew house, like so we we painted the floor green in there. got The green is the green room, and, um yeah, we can put the bands back there. But, and it yeah, it really is chaos, you know. So, I mean, we're in an industrial area, so, you know, don't come with high expectations of, you know, getting pampered and, you know, having, you know, cheese and vickies, you know, in green room. But, I don't know, you've set that up.
Speaker: Yeah, I have set that up. But, yeah, also, Jeffrey's going to be, like, might maybe squirting with some, like, you know, you know, hops. but Better than Caustic. Well, I'd like to and like to know where you were touring in your band days. If you're staying, being pampered is getting cheese and biscuits. I thought it would, you know, it should be, chris you know, bowls of Cristal and caviar or something.
Speaker: i Cheese and biscuits. We'd signed to a label in the UK and we'd, yeah but we we' signed to a label in the u k and we you know our head the heads got pretty swollen at that point and this is pre-covert and we were we were ready to do the european tours but yeah we actually had a big european we had two european tours cancelled the first covert and then the second covert and it was kind of like wow the caviar dream was very bad yeah yeah ah you know yeah luckily the cheese and vickies are fine luckily we're we're full of dreams and now it's coffee yeah
Speaker: And then, yeah, it's a bit of a dream come true in another sense with, like, connecting music in ah in our venue. That's been a real, for me, like, also, obviously the beer is, like, you know, focus number one, but seeing amazing shows in the brewery and going, like, wow, like, we're still very much connected to, like, the local scene and stuff like that. So, I mean, we've sort of talked about, like, doing more gigs here ourselves.
Speaker: Like, there's a bit of a jam session. We're supposed to be playing tonight, but it's one those days where you're like, no, I'm not good. Like, we've been brewing all day. Curtis has been cleaning a peach truck. So, you know, we'll get there. But it really is fun to see, like, a brewery light up with music.
Speaker: I think that's actually what's kept us going through, you know, all this, like, hardships in the brewing industry at the moment stuff. Yeah, it's actually true. Like, you could just have,
Speaker: probably one or two heavy weights, you know, just plowing through, you know, you've got problems at front and centre. But then, you know, last weekend we had a reggae festival where we had these amazing bands from Sydney I'd never heard.
Speaker: And after a few beers on a Saturday night, and, you know, this fucking band just starts up and it's incredibly tight and freaking just blow you away and you're like, Yeah, you know, you sort of look at each other and go, yeah, this is why we're doing it kind of thing. yeah don't know. It's weird, yeah.
Speaker: do you Do you see much support, for um looking the other way, for like independent beer within the live music scene? remember we did a story a few years ago when The Forum, one of the best venues in Melbourne, they started supporting a bunch of local independent brewers, but that's since, you know, retreated, receded.
Speaker: um And it does, yeah, it doesn't, yeah, it feels like, there's so much of a connection between mindset and the people involved and what they're trying to offer to people. But I don't see much of it, you know, much support for craft beer or local brewers, you know, outside of really small venues or pub venues, you know? Yeah, it's tough because, I mean, indie supporters need that, like, or any sort of a big event needs that sponsorship and that comes with money. And that's where, like, macro breweries sort of come in, you know, Coopers who, yeah, we love Coopers, you know, but,
Speaker: that's where the support comes in for those indie brewers. It'd be nice if like we could support that with like, with without like putting monetary value on it or like, but you know, they'd support us. But I guess both like two indies don't make a ride, you know?
Speaker: Or don't make money anyway. yeah yeah And um is is there any genres or any like types of bands you get in where the crowd seems a bit more interested in the craft beer or something like that? I remember years ago bands used to, oh, band rooms didn't want to build emo gigs because emo fans didn't drink enough, whereas metal fans always did.
Speaker: Oh, the Limp Bizkit cover show was like amazing on the bar. Like that era, I mean, that's our era. Yeah, it's our era. It's the 90s. Late 30s, 30s, early 40s. Yeah.
Speaker: Anything that sort of, yeah, new metal, new metal's good. Definitely the rock shows. We moved away from a lot of that uni surf rock stuff.
Speaker: no Not that we wouldn't put it on, but we'd sell out those shows like some really like notable bands would sell at those shows, but then the bar would just be like, it'd be like a slow Friday because they'd just come, they'd watch the band, they'd go home and drink at home or, you know, they don't have the money to pay for, you know, $15 schooner.
Speaker: Which, well, we got cheaper schooners than that, but, you know, i mean, you know, like they don't have the money for craft beer, basically. Yeah, but that hasn't been happy. That's, so that's not our reason for,
Speaker: No, no. Yeah, we yeah, yeah. It's all good. Yeah. yeah But it is Yeah, certain genres are better. that was Funnily, like, world music's not the best for craft beer.
Speaker: We do see some crossover, but we sell a lot of wine on world music nights, and we do a, like, monthly salsa night, which is our biggest event of the month, and, yeah, we go through a lot of wine.
Speaker: um ah I was chatting to the guys at Moondog the other day and asking about, because they've got Doglands, yeah which only opens the full venue and when there's a big event on at Marvel Stadium. And they reckon the most perfect circle of a Venn diagram was when Pearl Jam was on at Marvel Stadium.
Speaker: yeah like Yeah, that would be perfect. yeah
Speaker: Anything 90s nostalgic, like, yes e yeah, is, yeah. It's good. and and And you hinted at, you know, sort of, you know, we've got a question there, just straightforward as what's next for Seeker. And you hinted earlier that the you got some, you know, maybe blue sky ideas out there. So ah not necessarily involving beer. well Can you tell us something about that?
Speaker: Yeah, just like sort of briefly, I think for us, like we've, ah we always get excited on new ideas and concepts. So that's something we've always like, we always strive for. I think when we sort of get caught in a rut with,
Speaker: nothing new on the horizon. That's when we sort of get yeah get a little bit sort of like, what are we doing? So I think our next thing... You walked in the other day going, all right, it's time for something new. Like, I feel like we're getting... Like, shit's getting boring. wait And then that's like three years after the brand started or three... You know, you're not even that old.
Speaker: You're still growing. And yet know it's like, right, come on, I'm bored. I'm doing something else. We need a new album. I'm just on the whiteboard. What do... Yeah, well, don't know you should give it away, like, fully yet, but we're looking at some functional sports drinks. No, man. Like a sport drink. We're looking at functional sport drink.
Speaker: Let's give it away, yeah. So, basically, it's ah like a hop aid. So, it looks like hot water. Yeah. Which is not new. It's not new. No, but we're going to focus on that. It's kind of in keeping with that whole ethos that you described right at the start in terms of, you know, what the Seeker brand means, I guess, and tying into the local outdoor, you know, adventure sort of lifestyle.
Speaker: We want to look after the athletes. We want to look after the hangovers. Yeah. We're there for everyone. And it's just a way for us to kind of, yeah, put our foot in the direction that we kind of want to align ourselves with. So it's like,
Speaker: yeah, that whole sport outdoors, like athlete, like section that you can't really do with beer. Like, I mean, you can to some extent, but I feel like with, you know, you know, you look at Gen Z and stuff like that, like there's a whole, there's that health trend.
Speaker: ah So we're, we're not so much want to do this for like sales on its own, right. But just to kind of promote our brand is like,
Speaker: what we like for like what our ethos is and what you know where we sit like you know like in that scene we also want to do can we talk about this wanted to leave happy we little we want do little beers in big cans right you had here first no one else should do it we're going to little beers in big bands yeah we're going to do little beers yeah So basically it's still going to be one standard drink, but you need to have 500ml. Yeah.
Speaker: like little beers great again. That sort of thing. But yeah, we want to explore that as well too. You know, like I think you can the other way.
Speaker: Um, Well, that would that would be kind of ideal. I'm just thinking, you know, to like, you know, music festivals, you know, i if it's the ones, you know, Will and I go to every year, you can take your booze in any way. But if it's ones where you're not supposed to take booze in, you need to take as much in as your folding chair bag on your shoulder as you can.
Speaker: And if you've got maybe smaller beers with more liquid, it's maybe less journeys back and forth to, ah you know, and still but maintaining a level of sobriety over the course of the day. Yeah. I think that,
Speaker: The bottom line for us is kind of exploring just flavor in like different different settings. So it's like whether it be the art of flight where it's like, let's go big, smaller volume or, you know, go big with like lower ABV or as well as just what a, like a four beer and a normal limited releases are.
Speaker: We like, you know, this, we like going to the, like the limit down both ends and, vietnam just having fun with it I think it's the big one for us.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. mean, there's like, there's no rules here. So see what people think. We can afford to do because they're only limited batches and, you know, people are vibing it. Great. If they're not, then like we've got others, you know, so that's great. Great thing about our business at this stage.
Speaker: Like kind of like, you know, you take a band like Arctic Monkeys and then, you know, they've they've got a sound and then they release this kind of like slow country album. well what did What did you make of that direction of theirs? I've tried to give it a few goes. I don't know.
Speaker: I personally don't like it. It's cool. I got to give it to i like their slow rock stuff. Like that was sort of in the transition period, but. Yeah. and i've i've got I've given you a couple of goes and it's just, it's just not doing it for me. I've got a mate who's in, no, you're wrong. You are totally wrong.
Speaker: It's a but Tarantino kind of the last album, but interesting but I think it's like, that's an artistry of going, okay, well, like, you know, what's interesting for us right now? Like we've been doing this, but like, what would be interesting for us to do this? And sometimes it hits the mark, sometimes doesn't, but we don't really, you know, we,
Speaker: We don't have like much to lose, apart from like maybe a reputation. But we don't have a huge thing. like People sort of at this point can go, oh, that beer wasn't too good. But like I know their beers are like pretty good. So like I'll get them again. like it's but It's nice to get to that point where at the start it was like, we can't like make it crappy, you know, because that's going to throw people it. Well, it's just that, like, yeah, like the risk.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. yeah take what risks? You've got to take risks. yeah
Speaker: And what about... way So there you go. typeship Sport drinks and little beers and big cash.
Speaker: And do you have any other sort of, I don't know, hopes or wishes for the, whether it's a local scene, local music, local beer scene? You obviously got a lot of great breweries around you as well that I'm sure you work with a fair bit.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, Just in the Wollongong area, we've just set up it's the Wollongong Brewers group. So we're about to put on a hop on, hop off class event. So it's the first sort of event for the local collective.
Speaker: So that's exciting. So I just yeah i want to see more sort of collaborative like events, where like whether it be sort of following the Marriottal Trail or like the Northern Beaches, stuff like that. So that's something we're focusing with a few key players here.
Speaker: a bit hard when everyone's super busy it's like get together and do something that might necessari not necessarily be super profitable but it's like we're trying to get that morale up that you know like you know craft brewers and breweries are like you know i still we're still relevant and cool yeah well i mean so so many people in woongong is still kind of they we're unknown in the world, you know, to a a huge demographic.
Speaker: And I think that's across the board for quite a year. and So I think there's still a lot of room to grow and move into that space. And I just hope that we weck can do it in a way that, you know, kind of, you know, stays true to our ethos, but we can kind of,
Speaker: Yeah, well, I think when people in the industry get together on a large or small scale, whether it is a collaboration with one other brewery or whether it's something like you're doing now, um you know, with the the Wollongong Brewers Collective, like that Scotty Morgan's been ah keep me keeping me abreast on.
Speaker: Like yeah and anything like that where you get together, whether things are good or bad, I think, you know, you're just reminded that there's other like-minded people out there doing good stuff. And, you know, hearing what other people are up to, i think it just it does help, you know.
Speaker: but yeah reminds you why you're doing it and just put a bit more you know um this is like any mengan put on it's like sometimes it can feel like a chore or like it's an extra job you got to do on top of your sort of normal job but as soon as you get to the event you see the smile people's faces on the event success it's like oh okay this is like this craft beer this is the industry and it's fun and Yeah, that's what we live for. like that It's all about the community. I think it's all about a community. and The rising tide raises all jet skis.
Speaker: I think time but it's all it's all about community. and I think like that's really special when you know you can resonate in certain areas of the community and you know have a good time.
Speaker: Well, that sounds like a wonderful note to end on, I think. So thank you so much for your time. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Thanks. thank you
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