Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Reviving Game Masters: How Pearl Abyss Brings Player Engagement Back to Life
37 Plays8 days ago
Episode Overview:
In this episode of Player Driven, Greg talks with Gareth Weatherley, the Senior Customer Relations Manager at Pearl Abyss. Gareth shares his journey in customer support across the gaming industry, the resurgence of game masters, and the balance between automation and human interaction in creating unforgettable player experiences. With insights from his time at Blizzard, Kakao Games, and now Pearl Abyss, Gareth offers a unique perspective on community building and player engagement.
5 Key Takeaways:
- The Evolving Role of Game Masters
Timestamp: [04:30]
Gareth discusses the return of game masters in modern MMOs, reflecting on their role in early games like EverQuest. He explains how Pearl Abyss is bringing back game masters to foster direct player interactions and make in-game events more engaging and personal. - Balancing Automation with the Human Touch
Timestamp: [12:45]
Gareth talks about how automation and AI have improved efficiency in customer support but emphasizes the need for maintaining human engagement. He shares how direct player interactions, especially in critical moments, can enhance the overall gaming experience and build player loyalty. - Memorable In-Game Events
Timestamp: [19:15]
A highlight of the episode is when Gareth recounts organizing a virtual wedding for a player during the COVID-19 lockdown. He details how this event brought the community together, creating a memorable experience that went beyond the screen and became a cherished memory for the players involved. - Adapting to Player Expectations
Timestamp: [26:00]
Gareth reflects on his time at Blizzard and Kakao Games, discussing how player expectations have evolved over the years. He shares strategies for managing community feedback and the importance of being adaptable in response to player needs. - Looking Ahead: The Future of Player Engagement
Timestamp: [32:40]
Gareth envisions the future of player support as a blend of automation for efficiency and personalized touches for meaningful engagement. He talks about how Pearl Abyss is positioning itself to remain at the forefront of community-driven support and the opportunities that lie ahead in evolving communication platforms.
Episode Summary:
In this episode, Gareth Weatherley delves into the importance of direct player interaction, the return of game masters, and how balancing automation with human touch can make all the difference in player support. With heartwarming stories and strategic insights, Gareth offers a fresh perspective on creating a thriving gaming community. Tune in to learn how Pearl Abyss is setting a new standard for community engagement in the gaming industry.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:01
Speaker
Good morning. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. Greg here. We have a really fun episode for you today. We are talking to Gareth Weatherly, the Senior Customer Relations Manager for Pearl Abyss. He has been at Pearl Abyss for a little over a year
Career at Pearl Abyss and Kakao Games
00:00:18
Speaker
now. He was with cacao games for over seven years and has a lot of, a lot of experience in community management, things like the league game master, which I want to, I want to question and ask what that really means and break it down a little bit. Uh, and I'm excited to just talk about it. So Gareth, thank you so much for joining me today. Is there anything I missed or you want to say about yourself? Uh, no, I mean, it's a pleasure to be here and now to be on the podcast. So I'm looking forward to it and having the conversation.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah. I appreciate it. You have some cool backgrounds that I'd love to kind of dig into and understand what it was. And
Imposter Syndrome in Customer Support
00:00:51
Speaker
I wanted to just start off with the, uh, we call it the elephant in the room. I had to twist your arm to get on the podcast. I know you're, you're kind of quieter, more reserved. Um, can I just put ask you point blank kind of why are the hesitancy to jump in on the podcast? Um, I guess it comes down always to the imposter syndrome is like what I do. Interesting to enough different people.
00:01:15
Speaker
I mean it's community and customers support so it's not always the most glamorous thing but you know ah over the years tried to put my own twist on it. so Let's just see if the viewers enjoy that. Yeah, let's see if we have an episode. yeah And then I'd love to ask that question because, you know, I have it. We all have it. It's imposter syndrome. What are what are we actually doing? Is it really important? and I think when you sit in a role for so long and you just get so immune or I don't know, you just feel like you're just doing your job, but there's these little things that you do that you probably don't realize the impact that makes and the different lives that you can change and the things that you do. and i think
00:01:51
Speaker
We're going to talk through some of that today and things that you've done and I think it's important. So first off, thank you for having the change of heart. Thank you for jumping on and being here today. um
Role of Game Masters in Player Experience
00:02:01
Speaker
So let's talk high level. You today are a senior customer relations manager at Pearl Abyss. Pearl Abyss has been making some cool games for a while. You may be or my listeners, right? The listeners may be more familiar with games like Black Desert online. They're coming out next year with Crimson Desert, which was was I think announced that games come this year, and people are are hyped about that. um Can you kind of break down for me a what a senior career what a senior customer relations manager does? So primarily, it's it's the customers, of course. So it is dealing with the inbound tickets that are coming in.
00:02:39
Speaker
um but we also We have what we call Game Masters, which are a little bit different to your standard support agent because we actually try and get in game and we interact directly with the players. um We try and do cool things and host events with them. um So it's not just sitting in front of the emails coming in and processing the refunds and all of those things. we We really try and get out there with the community.
00:03:04
Speaker
And I see you've had that role at a number of certain places, right? You had it at Blizzard, you had it at Kakao, you have it now. Uh, is this something that's normalized that a lot of these, these publishers or development studios like that they have team members are in the game itself that you can talk to in the game? So I think in the early days of MMO, it it was a lot more common and and that's where the term came from. Um, looking back to games like EverQuest, um, I think They were, at least in my eyes, the first one that made Game Masters famous. And then Blizzard obviously called their customers the board agents Game Masters as well, and they had a bit of in-game presence. But a lot of games kind of moved away from that for a while. And to me, that was a shame, and it's something that I've always always tried to bring back in. So as we've gone through the history of Black Desert, we've tried to do as many cool different events and create meaningful experience with our players actually in-game.
00:04:00
Speaker
Is there a story or anything you can share on, uh, on how you saw the game master role provide a exceptional customer experience compared to just a normal support agent? Yeah. So, I mean, it it first started with, with Blizzard for me. Um, so we, knew there were a very few select amount of agents that were able to go in game, um, and reveal themselves to players cause you start off invisible.
00:04:29
Speaker
And then kind of interact and and do cool things with them. And they had a ah lot of tools at their disposal for that. They could turn people into gnomes. They could cause all these crazy effects in games and all of these different things. But it was actually quite rare to be able to do that. But what I saw when I was doing it is players absolutely love it. And I think it really creates a memorable experience for them, actually makes them, you know, feel more part of the game. Why the shift away from it then?
00:04:59
Speaker
Um, I think for a lot of people, then it's the resources. It means obviously you'd be doing that too. When you're answering a ticket, you can answer a ticket in a couple of minutes. If you're having to go in game and and create these experiences, then it takes a lot of time. So if you're trying to balance those two things, um, you know, you need to make sure and your basics, uh, in order, all of the normal customer support APIs, your response times and all these things.
00:05:24
Speaker
Um, and then if you've got those covered, then you've got this opportunity to to really go the extra mile and kind of show up for your players. Do you think, I guess, maybe that the push for showing KPIs and improving handle time and improving first touch response, all this stuff, like did that drive away game masters because of what you just said, like, Hey, it just, it's too long. You shouldn't be spending this much time with another player.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I mean, if you if you kind of look at the call center environments that have that been around for a long time before we really had them for gaming, then, you know, you really drive kind of hard on these metrics and call handling time and all of these things. And it becomes those kind of cost centers that really try and maximize those KPIs. And if you have certain people that are trained in that way and and used to doing those things and they may struggle to see the value that actually just getting in the game with your players brings.
00:06:27
Speaker
interesting, I can tell you from the help shift side of things, right in keywords is that we see a ah lot of our customers being more interested in these VIP types of services, making sure that your top players are getting those, those personalized, really great experiences. And it sounds like I always, you know, as you get older, you start to see like time is kind of a flat circle, right? Like, Hey, the same thing's coming back in, like,
00:06:54
Speaker
Is this the next evolution of this? Do you see the the concept of a game master evolving into a VIP support experience that might eventually turn back to ingame in-game game masters? Yeah, I mean, i I absolutely think that that's going to be the way the customer support goes. um I mean, especially as we see this rise in automation, into self-service options, AIs coming in and going to play a factor. The actual human connection and and human touch going to get lost or is in danger of getting lost. And I think that a lot of people will start to crave that a bit more. um As more and more of our actions become automated, um then it will become kind of exclusive to talk to people again. i mean Maybe it's going slightly too far, but I think you get the meaning. Let's talk about your journey itself, right? Because I want to continue this conversation that we're having, but I also want to let our listeners understand where where did Gareth come from, right? so
00:07:52
Speaker
kind of, can you explain how you got into the industry?
Journey from Retail to Gaming Industry
00:07:55
Speaker
And when you first got in, can you talk through kind of what was customer support like at that time? Um, so I think for me on my personal journey, like obviously gaming from a very early age in the old Amstrad Commodore 64 era, that's where I got into it. And, uh, the games that stood out for me then were games from fast and elite. They've had remakes, but the original versions and these were these, um,
00:08:22
Speaker
Closest you'd have now to ah an open world or a sandbox environment, games you could really get immersed in. So that kind of set my my gaming background. And then my first job that was connected to gaming was actually retail, um working for a video game retailer, the large brand in the UK at the time. And they actually, they built themselves up by having really, really good, strong customer service policies, got refund policies,
00:08:52
Speaker
And also now what I'd like into proactive engagement. So when you're in the shop there, they hated you stood behind the till. They wanted you out on the shop floor, talking to customers, talking about games, helping them with their purchase, not pushing hard ourselves, but just being out there and you know being available to talk to them. And yeah, as I said, they that's where I kind of learned the ah background into all the importance of having really strong customer friendly policies in place.
00:09:22
Speaker
um There was one story out of you remember the old Sims game that had a ah million expansions to it and a lot of our customers they weren't gamers they were the mothers and fathers of games so they didn't really know the product so just before closing we had a lady come in that had bought one of these Sims expansions for her daughter's birthday tomorrow it's like five minutes to closing and she's just had a phone call and realized she's got the wrong thing so I might explain in it to her and that she needs the base game before you can add the expansions on. And what I actually do, she bought this at ah another retailer that I knew had a very, very, very strict refund policy to actually basically return what she thought through our system and sold her the right things she needed. And I was still quite new at the time. And so I kind of went to explain it to my manager thinking I'm in all kinds of trouble for returning a product bought from another store.
00:10:23
Speaker
Um, so I kind of make my confessional quiet and, um, I'm expecting him to start screaming and shouting at me and fire me on the spot. And I have to go to the next town now to buy video games. He's never allowed in the store again. But, um, he actually just turned around to me and said, um, what you've done there is you've made a customer for life. I expect that to be the norm. And that's where what customer service meant kind of hit me. And it was my first experience on that journey.
00:10:51
Speaker
And something I've always taken with me and it's something that the story i often tell to people I'm training about, you know, just surprise the customer by making their life easier and and help them on the day and make this whole contact with you be as painless as possible. Because generally most people don't like to have the contact customers before, right? They just want everything to run smoothly. um
Community Management at Blizzard
00:11:15
Speaker
So yeah, after that I went to work at a few of the cost centers that I kind of described and I learned a lot there about how not to do things, um but then also I learned stuff about the KPIs and what you need to manage and all of those things. And and eventually and that led me to joining Blizzard, which was what I'd say my first proper job in the industry and supporting an MMO there. And obviously Blizzard at the time were known for exceptional customer support as well. I became even more fascinated with policies and, you know, why a
00:11:51
Speaker
certain policies put this way and how can we kind of find the flexibility in those to help the customer more. And then obviously the in-game interactions became part of that journey and saw the joy that that was bringing. And obviously, you know, World of Warcraft at the time, it took gaming into a new thing, at least for me, because suddenly you have these worldwide communities, which you didn't really have before. It was all just sort of single player games.
00:12:20
Speaker
that you kind of see the whole world coming together to play a game. And I kind of fell in love with the the community aspects. there um And yeah, eventually that that led me to cow games and where we prepared for the launch of Black Desert in the European and North American market. And that was my my first chance really to do things my way.
00:12:45
Speaker
So I was able to determine the policies we wanted to put in place and I was able to experiment with things. Okay, if we change this policy from 48 hours to 72 hours, what effect does it have on our customer satisfaction scores and all all of these different experiments that can run. um And obviously the launch of the game was very successful. um And when you have a ah successful time in a video game, customer support does not have a good time. either Players come in, tickets come in, you get the big backlog.
00:13:15
Speaker
Um, so it took us a little while to kind of get things under control and then it could really expand out. And that's when we, we started doing a lot more of these in-game interactions and, um, trying to create these memorable experiences for our players that went a bit above and beyond. So I think that was quite a ramble, but I think that it was, thanks it was a fantastic ramble. I feel like there are some great, great, great points there. One, I mean,
00:13:42
Speaker
just working at the game store, right? And I could imagine like, you're young, you're excited, because you're probably working what you think is your dream job at a video game store. And like, you know, you return the wrong product and you make this woman happy. You're just like, Oh, God, I gotta go explain you're probably like shaking and you know, your manager is right. You know, it's these customer experiences, these events that people go through when you help this person use her daughter's birthday could have been ruined because she had the Sims pets or whatever it was, but not the Sims. And all of a sudden, she can't play the game. And, you know, it probably cost the store nothing. And he realized that, hey,
00:14:19
Speaker
she'll be back and she'll probably come by this expansion pack as well anyway because that's what the Sims does and and like it hits you all of a sudden and then in it states here right we have like the story of Zappos where it's all about customer loyalty we have the brand Chewy I don't know if that's global I don't think it is but like how they just look out for their customers and their pets and like you know, working in customer support, I feel like, and I remember when I was in it, like, you don't really it's it feels like a thankless job. And you don't realize the change and the impact you can have on these people's lives for as little as you're doing, right? It seems like it's a nothing type of thing. And then you see the reaction that these people have. And you're like, Wow, like,
00:14:59
Speaker
It never really sinks in. It makes you feel like you feel until you look back at it or you talk through it years later and you get it. And I love that story. I think it's fantastic. And then go into Blizzard, right? And I want to ask you a little bit about the Blizzard side of things because, I mean, World of Warcraft was a ah phenomenon, right? It just took over the entire world. And, you know, that that's where you said you started to see that communities are building within these games. And it was easier to interact with your communities, right? It was, it wasn't all the aim or different ways of messaging people as hey, they all of a sudden, these groups are or working and then you go to cacao, right? And you kind of have your own, your chance to build your own system from what you've learned over the years. And I also want to dig into that as well. But I want to talk about
00:15:46
Speaker
Blizzard because, you know, what was it like when you started experiencing these communities, right? Because, you know, customer support was, here's an email, answer the email, or here's the form, answer the form. Now, all of a sudden, you have groups talking, right? And all of a sudden, you know, it's like, uh-oh, this whole group is kind of mad right now because they found a bug in the game, or maybe they love this, or they want to see this, like,
00:16:09
Speaker
Did Blizzard, and I don't know if you can answer this, right? Was Blizzard expecting this to happen and they were prepared for it or was it like, okay, we have to do something new because there's a new type of support that's coming out? Yeah, I mean, ah so I wasn't there right from the start. I joined Blizzard just towards the end of the Burning Crusade and and was there for about four and a half years. um But that was kind of their peak numbers. though um You know, the game obviously exploded out of nowhere. So they had to suddenly realize they've got to set up this this huge call center type environment. um But, you know, Blizzard had its values and it wanted to do things its way. So it's not just phone or email support. It's straight into the game. So although you won't necessarily know of an avatar, you were sending the message and it was directly into the the chat window in the game.
00:17:05
Speaker
um and then you had the option to go in with an avatar and really be there in the physical world. um So that was really, I guess, quite unique and and ahead of its time. um Maybe some of the smaller MMOs had done something similar, but certainly never had to do it to that scale. and So all the different policies and all the different rules and get into moderation and all the things you have to think about and have in place. Yeah, really, it
00:17:36
Speaker
must have been quite tough for them and and still, you know, they were changing and learning all the time. So that was um something you got to be part of as well. Because, you know, even as a, as a basic agent, you could influence things and get your voice heard and your policies changed. And, you know, I was always looking for that kind of gray area where the policy didn't quite match the player's situation. Okay, how can we spin it in the player's favor? Can we actually push and make this policy more flexible and these kinds of things that I just fell in love with about customer support. And then you go to cacao and you're able to build out kind of your own vision, right? You're allowed to play with new tools. You're allowed to experiment and try new policies.
Setting Up Support Systems at Kakao Games
00:18:20
Speaker
Is, is that nerve wracking? Are you nervous like being the kid again in the game store where like, I'm going to screw something up and get in trouble? Like what what's going on in your mind when you walk in and you're like, all right, we're going to do something here. Um,
00:18:36
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, I wasn't, when I initially joined, I wasn't expecting to have to build everything from scratch and and leave the entire thing. That was then kind of thrust upon me very quickly. Um, but I just got so absorbed in it and, um, you know, because I'd become so passionate about customer support, um, I kind of, and I now think this is the wrong mantra to have, but I went in with the mission, right? Build this support better than Blizzard and,
00:19:07
Speaker
probably shouldn't have been thinking in those terms to compete against someone, but, you know, this was the background I had. They had this excellent reputation. I thought, yeah, I'm going to smash that. So it was, you know, hugely exciting time. And obviously, you know, mistakes are made on the way as I'm learning, experimenting with things. But I was kind of, I was really lucky in that I was given free reign. So I was able to try things and didn't make any mistakes that were too catastrophic, but it was like, okay, that didn't work. We can try something else.
00:19:36
Speaker
Um, and as I said, you know, when we first launched the game, it was, it exploded overnight. We had a huge backlog and then, okay, crap, how do I fix this? What do I need to do? And, um, working with a ah vendor at the time, they kind of leaned on their experience and, you know, we upscale, we've got training processes in place and fixed the gaps in the policies because, you know, issues that I wasn't expecting come up. So we're not prepared for that. and You know, eventually we, we get it all under control and and then we start building it up from there and how, okay, how do we improve things? How do we get CSAT from 80 to 85 to 90? How do we bring our response times down? Okay. Now we're, I'm happy with where our KPIs are. Let's go have some fun with our players and do that, that in-game stuff that I really wanted to do from the start, but have to put on home. When you look back at it and if you had to do it all again, what what would be the first thing you do?
00:20:37
Speaker
Uh, better projections and better data on, on what kind of volumes we expected. Um, cause yeah, that the first few months really hit us hard and then it was, you know, a bit frustrating because I had these ideas I wanted to implement, but I couldn't straight away. So yeah, I mean, better preparation. It was essentially my first time launching a game as well and building the support up from scratch. So there's definitely.
00:21:07
Speaker
A lot of mistakes that I made there that I could easily be more prepared for, you know, had to do it again from scratch. Usually about halfway through the podcast, I like to do this fireball around, throw some questions at you and get your answers. You good to go? Okay. It sounds terrifying. What did you have for breakfast? Uh, I skipped breakfast. I'm actually just having one dinner a day and I'm drinking protein drinks. So I can do a bit of this. Intermittent fasting. Is that what you?
00:21:36
Speaker
It's not quite implemented fast and it's just meal replacement with protein. Okay. What is your dream vacation? Um, I think I kind of had it last year for an anniversary. So I love Iceland and really wanted to get in and see the volcanoes and the glaciers and things. And we we had a 10 year anniversary last year and we went there. So, and that absolutely took my breath away. Congratulations. Did you see the Northern lights up there now?
00:22:06
Speaker
No, it was a bit cloudy. So we didn't really get the lights, but yeah, I mean, we, we got to walk from a volcano to a glacier and all these beautiful waterfalls. And it's just a whole, I don't know if you've ever been there, but it's like being on a whole different planet. It's absolutely amazing. Beautiful. What game are you playing right now? Uh, I haven't played anything for a little while. I'm kind of waiting for the next before managers.
00:22:35
Speaker
If you had to contact customer support, would you choose phone, email, or chat? Uh, chat. And fine up and again what is that and i not having a game yeah yeah that you having yeah ah final question is what is the show that you're binge watching right now? Uh, when we just finished rings of power.
00:23:00
Speaker
I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan, but let's not get me started on that, because that'll take over the podcast. They just renewed it for season three, or was season two decent? A lot better than season one, in my opinion, but yeah, I'm a big Lord of the Rings nerd, so every little detail I'm going to cross my mind. I think they did the best they could. I heard there's like multiple writers and I heard some episodes or some storylines are fantastic and some storylines are just rubbish.
00:23:29
Speaker
It's a very difficult period of the, the talking University of Queensland to do the same reasons considering all of that and not doing bad. All right. Well, you're off the hussy. That was easy, right? Let's talk about memorable experiences, right? Cause we started with memorable experiences by talking about you helping the woman out at the game store. Can you talk to me about some of these memorable experiences that you've helped coordinate or set up? Because I think it's fascinating. Yeah. So.
00:23:58
Speaker
Obviously, yeah, with the in-game game masters and and having that presence there, there's a couple of different things that we do. So one is that we will host an event. So that could be it's Christmas, we'll decorate a house and someone will be there in a Santa costume and players can come up and we'll give them a little gift. But we've got a new ocean content that came out and we there was this big guild galley boat that was quite hard to obtain, you had to gather a lot of resources in the field. So it was brand new, no one had it yet. So we staled a group of people out into the ocean and we had a different set of GMs on a pirate boat attack so they could all get to use the cannons and we spawned sea monsters. So these kind of inclusive events that anyone can pop into, we just put a shout out, hey, we're doing this, come and join us, have some fun.
Creating Memorable In-Game Events
00:24:49
Speaker
But then the ones I like the most are the kind of more personal ones.
00:24:54
Speaker
um can be things like and weddings and proposals and on the the more sad side sometimes memorials players like to do things in game and we help support those. So I think the first one we ever did was a ah wedding proposal and we hadn't really got in game much in and done anything like this yet. So we wanted to test it out before we actually went in and maybe ruined this guy's life. I think we messed it up. But practicing on the private test server and we're trying to work out how we can make this proposal or help us play and make this proposal. So we figured, okay, what tools do we have? We have fireworks that spell out letters.
00:25:46
Speaker
um we find a nice little spot that we can tele up to and we just testing, sending the fireworks to make sure they all work on all these good things. So we have to set up like kind of on a slanted roof that five GMs in behind five because marry is the longest word. So you need five because they can only do one letter each. So we'd shoot up in fireworks, will you marry me? And you know, we're checking all that work, but GM five who's got one job, he only has to let off the Y in marry, lets it off in the first word.
00:26:20
Speaker
So the first word we write up in the sky in fireworks is Willie. So we're very glad we're testing this. um And yeah, and so it comes to the actual doing it live with the players. So we we have him up on on top of this castle here and one of the GMs goes and and finds the um the girl he plans to propose to.
00:26:45
Speaker
It starts having a conversation. The girl's terrified. Like, oh my God, GM's just approached me. Why am I getting banned? That's the thing, you know. And she's like, no, you have to come with me and we'll explain that. So we then teleport her up there together and then tell her to look out over in that direction and set up these fireworks. And, you know, the proposal comes up and there's a little emoting game. It's yes. And so we're like, we've got to win. Two people are getting married and we hope that happens.
00:27:16
Speaker
I think that's amazing, that you were able to test it out, that you did test it out, that, you know, as a player of games, right? Like, and I never really got into MMOs, but like, I never realized how in-game, in the community itself it is, and how big of a thing that is. And it blew my mind when you told me about the memorials, because I think that's beautiful. I think there's longtime players of all these games. and horrible things happen or age catches up to you or and the way you can you can show kind of appreciation for who that player is, especially if they're part of a clan or part of a group, right? And I think you make players for lives or fans for lives when you do something like that. It also blew my mind that you told me you can do stuff like this and you have to be in a lookout for competing tribes because
00:28:06
Speaker
Just because you're doing this in the game, doesn't mean it's actually a safe thing to be doing because you can be attacked. And that kind of blew my mind too. It's, and I think that's awesome. And I just think it's this wild thing that, all right, well you could be proposing and then all of a sudden and the enemy's clan is coming at you and you're like, Oh God, like what's going to happen here? And I mean, yeah, you can get bad actors, but but generally it's all right. I mean, we did have a player who.
00:28:32
Speaker
He made it a thing to go around and kill role players in the game and he was sort of posting on the forums and making them funny videos um So whenever we were doing these kind of events we knew he was notorious to show up and and try and ruin things and you know, you try and engage with them a little bit you don't want to go to the the band, but unless you really have to, um, I think, you know, there was one, we were doing a memorial and it was actually, you know, a really tragic, um, set of circumstances that we just were not willing to, to have him come in and try and mess that. So that one, you got a band, but most of the time people are pretty receptive. If they're unhappy with an aspect of the game, they might pick up and chat. and You can usually just kind of talk them down.
00:29:23
Speaker
you know sometimes you have to resort to chat bans and things but then you know we had one case ah probably going to a bit more detail later but we we were doing a wedding for a couple and um they've warned us um in advance that they had a rival guild they were all from the same countries but small countries so there were two guilds and they were completely you know uh always at each other in the game v but That's what it's all about, right? um So yeah, we're but about to start this wedding for them and this rival guild does indeed turn up and we think, okay, here it is, we're ready for them. But actually what they do is they they all form up and basically perform a guard of honor for the bride and groom and set themselves around and basically join in the RP. So that's one that turned from potentially trouble into actually a beautiful moment.
00:30:21
Speaker
It's awesome. I mean, I don't know if there's videos of this stuff. It might be private videos for these people, but I just imagine like, even for you guys who are setting this up and the game masters in it, when you see this stuff happening and you're probably sweating bullets there for a moment, then you're just like, Oh my God, is this really happening right now? It just must be like an Oh my God moment. They they can surprise you sometimes.
00:30:43
Speaker
You know, we're getting into a an age where AI is starting to enter the page. And when you talked about kind of. the game coming online for the first time, there was a big backlog, right? And when you want to look at a backlog and catching up on the backlog, it's not about automation, but it's about getting things done quickly. But it's really important to keep the human touch with all the things we just spoke about, right? How do you continue to see the human touch playing a role in customer support when you have to start supporting thousands and thousands of thousands of tickets?
00:31:17
Speaker
whether it be a day, a month, right, coming in and making sure that you hit those KPIs that are important. Yeah, I mean, automation, self-service on the rise. and And, you know, it's generally a good thing because it is efficient. And a lot of the times the players just want the answer to whatever question they're having so they can be on their way. You know, that you don't necessarily need to jump in on the personalization. you can a template answer that solves their problem is is is exactly what's needed. Um, and then it's, you know, up to the, the agent to, to work out what's the best thing to do that, you know, um, and also, you know, you're looking at your volume. We've got a big spike. Okay. We need the team to focus on, on getting as many tickets answered and making sure your players can get into the game and play and they've got all the things they need, you know, rather than pushing this kind of extra milestone.
00:32:16
Speaker
But then you have acquired a moment and that's where you can pounce on these opportunities. But, you know, even even during the heavy spikes, if there's an opportunity to really make an impact, then it's something I'll be on the lookout for. So um for us, that then after launch, the next biggest spike we ever had was just as the world was going into lockdown for Covid. um We also it was a third year anniversary of the game. So we had these big, I think we were free on Steam, all these crazy events going. Um, yeah, lockdown hits everybody says, Oh, lockdown gaming time. Um, tickets go through the roof again. Um, but obviously lockdown, we have a couple reach out to us. Um, because of the lockdown, they had to postpone their real life wedding and they want to do something in game.
00:33:12
Speaker
Um, so we kind of know the world's hurting at the moment. So we want to create a bit of positivity where we can. So decide to go out all out on this one, make this the best thing we can do. And this is of all the things we've ever done. This is my absolute favorite. Um, so we, we set them up in houses where we can go and we can do the full trying on your tuxedos and wedding dresses and do a photo shoot there. So we create that experience for them.
00:33:41
Speaker
We take them around various locations in the game so they can pick the exact spot they want to get married. um you know We're officiating the wedding, we're sending like small things to all of their guests, like fireworks and lanterns and things to let off. We set up another big house for all the guests to go to afterwards, with the like feasting party and celebration times. We obviously record all of this and and make it into a video that we can send to them as well.
00:34:11
Speaker
We even take screenshots, we get a physical photo album made up of those screenshots and we send that out to them. um So we turn that disappointment, obviously it doesn't make up for it, but the disappointment of having to miss your wedding into and another memorable occasion. I mean, we even had their parents making accounts for the games to turn that to their wedding. They're not gamers at all, just, okay, if we can't see you in real life, we'll see this one, you know.
00:34:38
Speaker
um so yeah that's So we were swamped in tickets, but we still put the resources probably more than we ever had into a single player experience, um, into this to make sure we were still taking care of those things and kind of bouncing on these opportunities. I think that's again, such a cool thing to do when, I mean, we've never experienced anything like 2020 when the whole world shuts down. Right. And.
00:35:05
Speaker
Even you all have to deal with your own stuff that's going on, right? Where are you working from? Are you set to go over a motor? Are you set to do this, right? But at the same time, you're still there to help the player when they're trying to deal with their own crises and trying to make it work. And you give them this phenomenal experience that only a handful of people could say they've ever been a part of something like that in their entire life. My question to you would be, how do you sell this internally? Do you have to go ask the engineering team like, hey, can you help set this up for us? Is it something you have the capabilities of doing? How does that communication internally work and is it
00:35:42
Speaker
a battle sometimes. Um, it's not too bad because most of it doesn't really require any dead work. We kind of have the tools in place. Um, and you can, you know, there's, there's certain events where they're making fireworks for those events. Okay. We can use that for this now. So it's, it's work they've already done. And it's like just making the best use of everything you've got. Um, you know, occasionally we need a small bit of budget. We need to create a physical,
00:36:11
Speaker
album, but that doesn't cost them much. So, you know, it's not too bad. um And then, you know, you just have to justify then the the resources, the human resources you have to put into it a little bit. But then when you, you know, that the COVID wedding, for example, that's presser picking preci and not up. It's also careers picked it up and their forms are a ah light with it, wishing good messages and things. And so, you know, that's just paying for itself there on the resources.
00:36:41
Speaker
Um, sometimes you get nothing more than a Reddit thread out of it. Sometimes you get nothing except a happy player, but you know, it's worth doing these things spread though. You know, players know you start doing these things. They know you caring about the community. Um, so yeah, it's so it's all good PR.
00:36:59
Speaker
Yeah. All right. That's the thing. It's the other positive side of it, right? You have a good experience. People are going to go talk about this experience and any news is good news, especially if there're especially if it is positive news. As a senior customer relations manager, you've been game master, you've been community, whether it be you or someone else in the role, like, well, what's the next step you want to take? Where do you want to be? What do you want to be doing in the industry? Um, I mean, for me, it's, it's all about care of players. You know, as I was preparing for this, I actually it really struck me how much the different parts of my life and my journey kind of shaped me into this. So I'm for life in with the communities, with the players, I think. um You know, where i I think it's going to go, as we touched on a bit um with AI and automation. I mean, I do see a future where those human interactions
00:37:59
Speaker
um can be left aside or forgotten. I think it's important that we prepare ourselves for that and actually make that something that becomes a differentiator, I guess.
00:38:12
Speaker
um
00:38:15
Speaker
So that, yeah, you don't lose touch with that with the players. And, you know, maybe KPIs don't become first response anymore because the AIs done that in a few seconds. So, okay. I'll make my KPI warm fuzzy feelings created if one thing, you know, I can work with that. If you were to go back to a younger Gareth and give him any advice, would you have any advice to give him? Yeah. I mean, I think take the risks earlier and and don't be afraid to step up. I think that was, uh, until I had the opportunity with the cower and really
00:38:56
Speaker
went into it and started creating my own thing. I was probably sitting on the backseat too much, so I wish I'd kind of propelled myself forward earlier. move Move out of the comfort zone, which is another reason why I'm here. There we go. I feel like that's an issue. I mean, I think it all comes back to this imposter syndrome, right? I think even if we never called it then back then, we all all felt unqualified to take that next step when in reality,
00:39:22
Speaker
you're probably more qualified than a lot of the other people that are available there, right? I think it's just weird. maybe it's a self-doubt we all have in ourselves where it's like, I'm not the person to be doing this, but you're also probably the best person to be doing this. you just you're You're the harshest critic of yourself um that there'll ever be. ah And it's a good thing because it drives you to try harder, but it's also a bad thing because it shouldn't hold you back. You should still take that chance. You should still go for that opportunity to see what comes of it. And and I think, I mean, talking just through the experiences that you've had, it sounded like you've
00:39:55
Speaker
absorbed these experiences that you've gone through. And I think the best of them are all coming out right from, again, I keep going back to the game store and helping this lady find the present to helping people in COVID with their weddings to providing these just amazing experiences. So, I mean, kudos to you and to whatever you want to do next. I think you're doing great stuff and you shouldn't have these feelings. Yeah, I mean,
00:40:19
Speaker
Maybe they, yeah as you said, they, they helped drive you forward as well. So, but it's, um, yeah, just being very, very ready.
Evolution of the Gaming Industry
00:40:26
Speaker
Just to go on more on what I was saying earlier, I think when, but I think the rate of change is getting faster in the customer support and community management. And I can remember a time community manager meant you worked on the forums and you know, that was about it. Um, but then, you know, social media suddenly springs up and then Twitch is a thing, so you have to have partner programs. Now you've got to have a Discord. TikTok means all your content can only be 10 seconds long now or nobody's going to watch the rest of it. And I think that rate of change gets faster and faster. So I think it's really going to be very challenging to try and keep up to pace with that and and keep ahead of things. Um, so I guess, you know, try and future-proof as much as you can. I think this is what we're trying to do to an extent with the,
00:41:16
Speaker
with the proactive engagement with the, trying to add the human touch. As I think, as I said, the human touch decreases. and We want to increase it. Um, and kind of fill that space up. Yeah. I think that rambled again. Now, how do you yourself keep yourself up to date and enabled with the latest stuff that's coming out? Right. I am a newish to TikTok, right? And I've been trying to create content for TikTok and I realized I am just terrible at this. Right. I remember young me was always on.
00:41:46
Speaker
the latest platform, reading what's happening. I think as you grow older, your time becomes less and less. So like, how do you stay up to date and current? Uh, I hire people younger than me and then get them to tell me what to do. Genius. Um, but I mean, I, I, I joke, but yeah. You know, some of the, the team members were bringing in their part of Gen Z. So they, they know what's going on. I mean, I, I definitely struggled to even up with the latest trends as well. Uh,
00:42:16
Speaker
I saw the work to Muir on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago and I thought that sounds quite insulting and then within the next 15 minutes I've seen it five more times. It must be one of those trends. So yeah, keep in touch with those around you and you surround yourself with different types of people and from different backgrounds and generations. and And let them inform you, I guess. Yeah. That's, uh, I think that's what I found to be the easiest to get people who are better at it than you and just, uh, especially the younger people and let them do that stuff. Oh, Gareth, I really enjoyed this. I love hearing your stories, how you got started, how you got to where you are. I think you're doing amazing things and I think you will continue to do amazing things with the help of your younger Gen Z staff that will ah help enable you for the future. But no, I think you are fantastic.
00:43:06
Speaker
I really appreciate our conversation. And I think you're creating these experiences that go beyond the game. And and there's something that are really touching that people will remember for the rest of their lives, whether you feel that or not. And I think it's something that's important that more studios, more not even just game studios, more customer support teams you need to look at, right? This is where loyalty comes from. This is what you're building in. Loyalty is one of the most powerful things, one of the most powerful KPIs, if you could even measure it, that is out there. so Kudos, credit, nothing but respect for what you're doing.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:43:38
Speaker
Before we do end today, is there anything you'd like to just say or talk about or shout out? Keep an eye out for Crimson Desert and watch the news.
00:43:49
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't pick yeah i didn't yeah didn't pick your brain on Crimson Desert, but I feel like I wouldn't get far, uh, any, any good sneaky details here, which is fine. And I respect that, but, uh, we will have links to Pearl Abyss. We'll have links to Gareth. We'll have links to everything that's important and that what we spoke about on our player engaged blog, as well as our socials. Again, I know it's late your time, Gareth. Thank you so much for doing this. I look forward to keeping in touch and I hope you have a great rest of your evening.
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah, thank you very much. It's a pleasure and a yeah lot of fun, very self-reflective therapy. There you go. Cheers and have a great day. Thank you. Bye.