Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#289 Live at IMTS 2022
208 Plays2 years ago
John Saunders and John Grimsmo recorded this episode live at IMTS 2022 where they talk about new tools and great fans at this epic tradeshow!
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Good
Live Podcast at IMTS
00:00:00
Speaker
afternoon and welcome to the Business of Machining episode 289. My name is John Grimsmough. My name is John Saunders. And we are live at IMTS. This is only the second time we've had a 289-ish episode that we've actually recorded this live. Live and seen each other. Good to see you. Six years. Great to see you too. We
Podcast Growth and Business Confidence
00:00:19
Speaker
haven't seen each other in like four years. This is a much needed outlet.
00:00:25
Speaker
too. It's crazy. Great to be seeing people. Yeah. Like considering we haven't been here in four years, and in that four years, the podcast has gotten a few more listeners. Correct. But also, I mean, look, like I'm legitimately coming here for as a much more confident level business owner. Yeah. Six years ago that I bought my first cost to come back here with the shops that we have now. Yeah. And having discussions we're having in the industries.
Impact on the Machining Industry
00:00:53
Speaker
I think the industry is a better off place overall. I will say we've been a small part of making them better. I don't want to take credit for it, but it's true. And I hear it from people, from vendors, from machine tool companies that are like, you guys are making an impact. And my default reaction is like, aw, sucks. I don't know how to take this. It's amazing. I'd be lying if I didn't appreciate it. And it's part of why we do it. But let's talk about what he's doing at the show. Yeah, exactly.
00:01:22
Speaker
I
Networking at Willemin Booth
00:01:23
Speaker
went to the Willemon booth. I got my vice. They made a tiny little one inch machinist's vice. It's adorable. They're making it at the show eight a day. That's cool. That was really cool. I don't know. So far it's just been talking to people and going to the places I know. Kern, Tornos, Willemon.
00:01:47
Speaker
And from here, and for the next two days, I'm going to expand and dig around. So let's talk about that, because look, we're humans, and so it's comforting to find people that you know, that like you, and that's okay. Look, you can learn a lot, and I'd like to come back and talk about Willman here in a second, but it's also, there's something to be said for not hanging out with your friends, and not going to all the booths you know.
00:02:09
Speaker
Go poke in those corners and learn. Exactly. Just put your head down and learn new stuff, learn new technologies. Talk to people.
00:02:18
Speaker
That's what I want to do next. Good.
Deciding on New vs. Old Machines
00:02:19
Speaker
Because you just got in last night, so this is your first day. Yeah, I was here for a couple hours yesterday, but didn't see anything. Yeah, just running around. Is there anything here you want to look at specifically, like tool balancers or something? Yes, so I make my list, which I'm glad, because again, when you walk in the show here, you're kind of like shiny things every time you turn the corner.
00:02:40
Speaker
So we are at capacity on our Haas ST20Y. Okay, your lathe? Yes. That's like your one only lathe? Only lathe, yes. So reluctantly we would need to add another lathe. Right. So now we're back to the Willem thing. I talked to them, I'd really like to...
00:02:56
Speaker
I didn't know how I thought about it. This would be a 20-ish year old machine. It's the literal sister. It potentially was made the same year. I'm not a big company. Part of the John Saunders business owner would say, what are you doing? Why are you buying a 20-year old machine?
00:03:14
Speaker
blah, blah, blah. But when I look at the way that machine is programmed, is set up, is run, having seen it now and talked to Elaine and the team at WillaMin, I just told them, I was like, if you guys are willing to sell it and are willing to make this work, this is the machine I want. So that's kind of an open conversation. I realized I still need to take advantage of being here to look at other options. So, well here, let's talk about the other options. What do you think about the WillaMin thing? I mean, I know you're
00:03:43
Speaker
Oh, but you getting one? Or me having one kind of thing? Oh. Like, it's one of those, you know, he who dies with the most tools wins. I don't actually believe that, but I think it's hilarious. What does that have to do with anything? No, but I love buying new technologies, right? Like, I love that I have it. Now I just need to apply it and put it to use and reproduction parts. But exactly like you said, the way the parts are programmed and the way the machine holds the part and it's one and done, and it's 30,000 RPM spindle, like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:04:12
Speaker
The parts that CJ is making from bar are not bar parts, they're like milled parts. I
Willemin vs. Other Machines: Cost and Performance
00:04:18
Speaker
love it. But it's a brilliant machine. But a used machine costs the same as a speedio, like brand new. And a brand new machine is over half a million dollars. So you pay to play. But I think you're also very curious to see how I apply that machine.
00:04:38
Speaker
and how I like it. I mean, for sure, it's not a bad thing that you're going to have the identical machine. I can piggyback off of somebody you're learning. For sure. On the flip side, this literally has nothing to do with it. It's for sure not a Tommy Toppy or like, I want this machine. I mean, if you were willing to sell yours, I'd buy it tomorrow running.
00:04:58
Speaker
You know, the downsides are simply age, cost, I mean the cost of the used machine, or the cost of the new one, or downside, and it's a one piece flow machine. So if I have 13 tool changes per part, or 13 different tools, if we did something like a Swiss or a Turret lathe, you're not having to incur the time and expense and wear and tear, whereas a Willeman is,
00:05:23
Speaker
A physical tool change every time. Still worth it. Depends on the parts you kind of do. And I mean, some Wheelamans have a million tool changes or well over, and they actually track that. I haven't looked at mine yet. I don't know what the number is. You can't reset that on a fan machine, right? Like it's like the odometer. Yeah, exactly. Although, I don't know, if you replace all the parts, you would want to be able to reset it, but I'm sure that's a good point. I don't know.
00:05:50
Speaker
I learned something as well that was really interesting, which is that they are not limited to round bar. Obviously you can buy square and hex bar, but they actually were mentioning a fair number of applications of folks that are using bar feeders that have the ability to feed in flat bar, like true bubble gum trident or bubble gum profile, half inch by one inch flat bar, which could be really interesting for some of our parts, but for sure we would start with the round stuff.
00:06:20
Speaker
Then you treated like a mill, not a lathe. Really? Bingo. Yeah.
Versatility and Bar Shape Handling
00:06:23
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:06:25
Speaker
Any update on yours? I just need to put aside the time and work on it. Everything works, everything functions. I've made a couple little things. I'm still figuring out the vice and the transfer and all that, but I think I got it nailed. I'm psyched to get back after this show and dig into that. Me and Pierre, we're going to dig in. I want to teach him everything I can, because he's going to be the one operating it daily. I actually want to help him help me program it, and then he gets to learn more of that, and Angelo as well. That'll be really good.
00:06:55
Speaker
So the other machine that we looked at is, we have the chance, I think I mentioned this, to potentially buy a very old Niano, similarly aged 20 year old, and it's still a Swiss style machine in terms of having the fixed tools around the spindle like a Swiss, like your Tardos, but it doesn't have the guide bushing, it has
00:07:18
Speaker
some amount of travel in the spindle itself, like your Z is in the spindle. So I thought, well, I'm here at IMTS, I should go talk to the folks at the auto. And so I did, and they have a number of small turret lays that had a Swiss style, well, not really Swiss style, they're turret lays, but they're
00:07:38
Speaker
they have that sub-spindle like a Swiss does where I can pick it off and bring it back over to another turret like your Swiss does. And I like that better because I just think for us the way we would program it, we have nowhere near the need of Swiss volume. And so having a little turret lathe that's super precise and can bank this on these parts with the right mix of live tooling is interesting, but it's still gear-driven 6,000 RPM live tooling, versus the Wilhelmin that's 30,000 RPM.
00:08:06
Speaker
Tool change. That's where the Wilhelmin wins. So it's six to one, half a dozen to the other. Like,
RPM and Spindle Efficiency Preference
00:08:10
Speaker
do you want more RPM and a better spindle, or do you want faster cycles and more volume? Oh, I want the Wilhelmin all day long. And setting up tools, so much better on the Wilhelmin. Cake. Yeah, on the Swiss, it's very manual. You're literally shimming, touching off tools, or doing a test cut, setting the offset. The Swiss works great, super stable, but I'm so pumped to dig into that Wilhelmin and just start making parts and just watch it, see. Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker
What about you? Technically, I'm here. I want to learn more about the deburring, tumbling, vibratory finishing companies out there. I
Deburring and Cleaning Technologies
00:08:47
Speaker
kind of know about them. I just want to see them and talk to them more because that's a big part of our business that we're kind of struggling with right now. Cleaning parts as well. Ultrasonic cleaners. I'm not thrilled with the results we're getting from ours.
00:08:58
Speaker
The parts need to be cleaner. Interesting. And I don't know if we're doing it wrong, you know what I mean? Or if we need a more powerful cleaner or something. Multi-stage? Multi, yeah. So I want to dig into some of those companies. There's got to be 10 ultrasonic companies here. From Crest to all kinds of them. Yeah. So, I mean, those are some of the big ones. And I looked at that four years ago when I was here too. Other than that, I'm just really here just to poke around and like, see what's new. Like, how can I apply whatever I'm learning today to the next four years of business?
00:09:27
Speaker
What's the trajectory look like? I'm not really shopping for big machines, although they're fun to see and learn about.
00:09:34
Speaker
Most of this stuff, honestly, I'm just kind of walking by going, cool, not for me, cool. Like it's neat, so buy it. Yeah. Well, so that was the conversation I had with the folks at Niano and there was a company, Concentra Corp that would serve, would be the reseller for us. We talked to them a year, a year and a half ago. We were looking at a Swiss, but I was trying to look at a Swiss that could do everything. It could do our four inch reversible. It could have done our mod vice washer and traditional more traditional Swiss type parts.
00:10:04
Speaker
because the thought was I could justify potentially swapping a machine out for that. And that conversation didn't really go anywhere because it would have been an expensive machine that was super complicated with quirky requirements, quirky parts. And now we don't need that. We have the horizontal, the runs, some of those other parts. So now we have
00:10:25
Speaker
for the Swiss or whatever it ends up being, is a totally rightful shot. Because they were trying to sidetrack me, not sidetrack me, but I was like, nope, I don't need to broach, this is how we're doing it, this is exactly what I want, this is the machine, I want to look at the options, it's good to know, okay. And into their credit, they were very good about, and I don't even mean this as a comment about then so much as in general, much more, great conversation about the right machine, ballpark pricing, feature set availability, like good, we're talking to you, that's great.
00:10:56
Speaker
yep
Positive Feedback on Uline Floor Cleaner
00:10:57
Speaker
awesome related to your cleaning i have to laugh because uh we posted the instagram story of that uline parts cleaner that we just bought yeah and the floor cleaner yes yeah like i was in no way interested in making a youtube video about it because like i will the day i make a youtube video
00:11:15
Speaker
For the wrong reasons is the damn gonna stop doing it, right? But the Instagram DMS I've gotten asking how does it work? What model is it? What's your process? I'm like, wow, so we actually need to use it More so that I can not just say what we bought it rather show what we've learned already But the one thing I've learned I'd like to say we have a pretty clean shot but our floors We've used it enough to know that. Oh my gosh, our floors were just six years of Even though we mop a little and push a broom. It's right. I'm so glad we got that thing. Cool. Holy cow
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, I've been on the fence about buying a floor scrubber for years now. And it's like $5,000 or a little bit more. Three. Three? Yeah. Battery powered, but still you push it. Okay. And it's the Uline one, right? Yeah. And yeah, I've been thinking about it. I mean, we spend a lot of time cleaning our floors.
00:12:02
Speaker
either mopping or hands and knees kind of thing, sections. And especially after a big cooling spill or something. Like we're there for a while. But yeah, it's tempting. So I would absolutely, my whole team would watch a video if they made one. Well, what we've already learned is our floors are so bad that we're gonna have to do a really small section and then swap out the water because, and I suspect this is one reason why maybe you're having parts cleaner issues is that
00:12:32
Speaker
the whole beauty of this Uline machine is it has a clean tank and a dirty tank, but the water is getting so dirty so quick because of how bad our floors are that we're just going to have to do a big overhaul clean, and then we'll have to keep up and clean them every, I don't know, two weeks or month or something.
Challenges in Floor Cleaning
00:12:48
Speaker
Well, if you have two tanks, clean water to dirty water, your clean will go empty, right? No, it does. I don't know how, that's a great question. I don't know how and why that works. If it recycles a portion of the dirty, because otherwise it would be
00:13:01
Speaker
I don't know, but what I know is it's so dirty that we're gonna have to do a small area and then swap it out, do more, all that. But I'm glad we bought it. Yeah, for sure. Cool. Yeah. Should we wrap it? Keep it short? Yeah, I mean, I don't know what else to talk about. There's so much going on. What's your advice for folks that may come to a future trade show? I mean, we're rolling. We're live on the bum. We'll be done in like two minutes though.
00:13:33
Speaker
We're filming this, by the way. We hijacked Okuma's podcast booth. Yeah, did we not mention that? Sorry, I think we didn't. And so they were awesome to say, yeah, go ahead and use it. So we've never done a bomb where people can just walk up to us. We're staring at machines running right now. We're sitting in these fancy chairs up on a big stage. And people are walking by like, hey.
00:13:51
Speaker
And we're like, yeah, we're recording. It's cool. We'll leave it in. It's all good. Yeah,
Effective Trade Show Strategies
00:13:54
Speaker
oh, absolutely. No, my advice for trade shows are they are phenomenal resources, especially as you're getting started and as you know what you're talking about, but especially when you're beginning. I've talked to a bunch of kids already here, like high schoolers, that are like, oh, I love your videos. It's amazing. And I'm like,
00:14:12
Speaker
Awesome. You know, full support for me. You need anything. You know, what are you here for? What are you interested in? Just to be able to, you're like steeping yourself in the industry here. You know, you get to see everything. You don't get to see this anywhere. Even if you tour one shop, it's different than coming here.
00:14:31
Speaker
So I would say try to bring a part. For me, I brought a bunch of those turn parts. You can talk to people about what you do. You can ask them about a situation. And you come to a show like this and you hand the sales guy or the apps guy, you hand them a part. The wheels, just hand them the part and shut up. The wheels start turning. You let them tell you what they see. It's great. Yeah, exactly.
00:14:52
Speaker
that's exactly the reason I didn't bring any parts with me because flying in the border I didn't bring a knife with me or anything so I went to the current booth and I borrowed one of the rasps hilarious and just four of the staff yeah I have it right here four
Knife Borrowing Story
00:15:05
Speaker
of the staff at
00:15:07
Speaker
That's great. At Curran have knives and more of them have pens. So anyway, I borrowed that. I'm going to walk around, talk to the finishing people, the cleaning people, show them like points. I can be like dirt traps in here. Yeah. It's going to be good. That's great. Well, let's call it a wrap there. I'm glad that we made this work though. Yes. I'll see you next Wednesday. Yeah, absolutely. Back to normal next week. All right. Take care. Awesome. Take care. See you. Bye. Bye.