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00:00:01
Karyn Schoenbart
94 Plays9 days ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Karyn!
Connect with Karyn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karynschoenbart/
Read Karyn’s book:
https://www.amazon.com/Mom-B-Essential-Business-Advice-Generation/dp/1628654597
Him for Her Organization: https://www.illumynimpact.org/
To stay in touch with Meredith and Medbury:
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Medbury on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/medbury_agency/
Subscribe to the Medbury newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Email Meredith: Meredith@MedburyAgency.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Karen's Career Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
Karen, I'm so excited to have the opportunity to talk to you and ask you these questions. Thank you very much. You wear so many hats. I'm almost not sure exactly how to introduce you.
00:00:13
Speaker
How do you describe what you do and who you are? Well, I usually say that i left my full-time position as CEO of NPD recently, but I'm still working full-time just in a very different way.
00:00:25
Speaker
and Meredith, i first of all, thank you so much for having me. and like to say, this is a quote that's not my quote, but I really like this one, that the first third of your career is mostly learning, the second third is mostly earning, and the last third is returning.
00:00:40
Speaker
And what I love about this point in my career and in my life is I have an opportunity to kind of pay it forward in a way that's very rewarding. So I have met you through Aliza Licht, who is also on this podcast.
Importance of Networking and Support Among Women
00:00:52
Speaker
I love Aliza.
00:00:53
Speaker
And before we jump in, I will say i'm I'm so glad to have you in my network. And I think there are so many women who kind of talk the talk about supporting other people, but I feel so grateful to know you. And I feel like you've really been incredibly supportive of Me and Medbury. So I'm very, very grateful to have you on my network and I can feel you and you're giving backstage for sure. group Feelings are definitely mutual. It's been a pleasure getting to know you and your team. So you have built an incredible career.
Career Milestones and Management Challenges
00:01:20
Speaker
You started an entry level role. You eventually became the CEO of NPD, which was the eighth largest research firm in the world. When you think back to your early years, what stands out to you as a really big turning points in your career?
00:01:37
Speaker
I think there are two, Meredith. One is i used to volunteer for everything. I'd raise my hand and that gave me the opportunity to get involved in some things that I wouldn't have gotten involved in and set me up well for promotion.
00:01:50
Speaker
The other thing was making the transition from an individual contributor to a manager. I was a salesperson when I got the opportunity to be a sales manager. Initially, I was terrible, terrible at it. i thought my job I still had clients and my job was to get rid of people as quickly as I could so I could get back to my real job.
00:02:10
Speaker
And it it showed me that we're not born to be managers. You have to learn how to be one and you have to decide that you want to be one. there' nothing wrong with being an individual contributor, but that was a very conscious effort to move from being an individual contributor to being a manager.
00:02:26
Speaker
And as a manager, your success isn't based on your own accomplishments. Your success is based on the accomplishments of your team. It's a completely different mindset. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you saying that because I think a lot of people feel that if they're not great at something from the jump, perhaps they're just not, they don't have the ability to do it.
00:02:46
Speaker
And I love what you just said about how no one is born a manager. It is a weird role telling other humans what to do sometimes and learning how to do it is is hard. It's nice to think that even you maybe weren't like immediately perfect at it.
00:03:01
Speaker
Is there an unexpected decision that when you look back, you think, oh, wow, that had a huge impact on where I am today?
Navigating Unexpected Career Paths and Interview Insights
00:03:10
Speaker
Well, it starts at the very, very beginning. Neither of my parents went to college.
00:03:14
Speaker
I was an education major. I didn't have any role models in business. But when I graduated from college, there just weren't teaching jobs. So I answered an ad in the newspaper that said, work with computers, interesting work, no typing necessary. Now think about that for a minute.
00:03:29
Speaker
I mean, this is when computers were like rooms. Anyway, I went on the interview. it wasn't right. The guy liked me. He brought me back for an interview as a gal Friday. Believe it or not, that was a job.
00:03:40
Speaker
And then that wasn't right. Because he liked me and because he saw something in me, he ended introducing me to the president of the company, who offered me my first real job in market research as a project director. Oh, wow.
00:03:53
Speaker
And I remember saying, project director, well, that sounds interesting. When I come into work in the morning and sit down at my desk, what will I do? and he said, don't worry, we'll teach you. And the lesson learned for me there was that you need to always kind of bring your A game.
00:04:07
Speaker
Even if it wasn't the right job, even if it wasn't the right opportunity, by bringing my A game, by still taking the interview seriously, it ended up leading to this unbelievable career that I never expected.
00:04:19
Speaker
Wow, that's a super interesting story. Gal Friday, was that the name of the job description? A gal Friday was actually like below a secretary. You are basically a gopher. You know, you'd go for coffee, youd go for things.
00:04:32
Speaker
And I didn't take that job. But again, the fact that I even was in the room and had the opportunity for the interview led me to what became a ah career that I never expected. What do you think happened in that interview that this leader saw something in you where he thought, we can train her to do the job, but she has something really special?
00:04:54
Speaker
you know i It was a really long time ago, so I don't remember, but it goes back to always bringing your best self. Always come prepared, come with thoughtful questions. One of the most important things I find in an interview isn't questions you answer, but it's the questions you ask.
00:05:10
Speaker
And now you can, of course, you know, Google or you use use ChatGPT to ask what are some really good questions, but they should be beyond the basics. You know, do your homework, find out about the company, ask pertinent questions.
00:05:22
Speaker
I think that's always a good tip for interviewing. You were one of the very first female CEOs leading a major global company. What was it like stepping into that role?
Balancing Authenticity and Mentoring
00:05:34
Speaker
And do you think you felt pressured to lead or be perceived in a certain way?
00:05:40
Speaker
No, I was very, very fortunate that NPD was a fantastic company. And now it's merged with IRI to form Sikon and it's still a great company. And we were very supportive of women all along the way.
00:05:51
Speaker
The other thing is I was able to be authentic because I had a T. It wasn't just me at the top by myself. There was three of us basically kind of running the company Todd Johnson, the founder, the CFO, and myself. And we each brought different things to the table.
00:06:11
Speaker
And so I was able to focus on the things that I was best at while relying on my team to do some of the things that they were better at And so I never really did feel lonely and I did feel pressure.
00:06:23
Speaker
And I had also been with the company a very, very long time before I became CEO. I knew where all the bodies were buried. I knew everything. i had worked in many different areas of the company. But I didn't actually feel pressure. I felt excited and motivated.
00:06:37
Speaker
At what point in your career did you realize that mentorship and leadership development, especially perhaps for women, might be a key part of your mission? You know, it's funny, Meredith, that you should say that. I always lived it. I didn't wave a feminist flag, but I just lived a feminist life.
00:06:55
Speaker
And it wasn't until my daughter started working and she kind of called me out on it. She didn't feel that I was doing enough specifically for women because I hadn't focused on that as a specific thing. And it wasn't until I ended up writing a book called Mom B.A.
00:07:12
Speaker
with her. She was the inspiration for And then I went on the speaking circuit, speaking to many different women's groups, women in auto care, women in technology, women in food service. Once you get on the women's speaking circuit, and that was the first time I really felt I was doing something beyond my day-to-day mentoring, but on a bigger scale.
00:07:30
Speaker
And it was really my daughter who kind of pushed me and was the first time i felt that she was disappointed in me. And I didn't want that to be the case. Wow. That's interesting.
00:07:41
Speaker
In Mom MBA, one thing I wanted to ask you about, since you brought it up, is I feel like in the book, you talk about how first impressions are so critical in business.
Professional Presentation and Preparation
00:07:52
Speaker
And it's something I've been thinking about a lot. i actually have a few other content people episodes with like fashion stylists. I did one yesterday, a few more coming up. And I would say it's something when I look back in my own career I would say to go back a little, you know, I grew up, we were always financially stable, but we didn't have a ton of extra spending money and clothing, for example, is something that we would not spend a lot of money on.
00:08:18
Speaker
And then when I first started in a professional environment and then was in my first C-level role, I felt in some ways out of my depth when it came to how to present myself. And I think for women, or at least in my experience, it's hard because especially if you have some internalized beliefs about how much to spend on clothing, how much it's appropriate to spend on hair or even time, it can cloud the fact that it actually really, really matters how people perceive you and how you feel about yourself.
00:08:49
Speaker
And I've loved all of the advice you've given about first impressions. So this is a really long way of me asking this, I suppose. But when it comes to presentation, Are there mistakes that you think professionals, especially women, sometimes make in how they present themselves?
00:09:05
Speaker
If you say wearing brown turtlenecks, it'll break my heart. so yeah You know, dress is only one piece of the puzzle. Yeah. And dress has changed so much. I mean, I remember way back, you know, and women wear dresses to work, men wore suits and ties.
00:09:20
Speaker
Things have certainly shifted. Yeah. In terms of dress, I like to say dress the way that matters to the people matter. Mm-hmm. and dress the way that makes you feel most comfortable while being authentic, while dressing the way that the people that matter.
00:09:36
Speaker
So for example, when my daughter and I present, if I'm presenting, I need to be in heels. Like that makes me feel confident. She needs to be in flats. That makes her feel confident. Either of those are fine. When I went to present to Dick's Sporting Goods to the team there, had to wear sneakers. I've never in my life presented in sneakers, but that was appropriate for that audience. So dressing is really, and and you don't have to spend a lot of money to dress clean and tailored and neat. But again, now, if you're applying for a job at a music company, you know it's a whole different thing.
00:10:10
Speaker
way that somebody might dress. But back to your question, I think it's more than just how you dress. How you show up is the presence that you bring. And I do think the mistake that women make sometimes is to be too weak, is to speak too softly, to sort of, you know...
00:10:27
Speaker
themselves smaller and they need to learn how to shake hands as simple as that my father because i had a brother he taught my brother how to shake hands and i happened to be in the room and so he taught me to shake hands i don't think he would have if i didn't have a brother frankly but you know you put out your hand you give a nice firm grip you pump once or twice you look somebody in the eye and too many women they do the little fish thing that to me is a mistake that a lot of women make So being too meek, not speaking up, not standing up straight, not shaking hands, looking people in the eye, that's a big part of how you show up. It's not just how you dress.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I think that's all really good advice. You've been on major industry stages and in very high profile rooms. Do you have any specific advice for how to be taken in seriously in those settings if someone is new to that type of environment and feels a little out of their depth at times.
00:11:23
Speaker
Well, again, we just talked about showing up and being present. And if you're in the room, if you have a seat at the table, own it. That's, that's number one. The other thing is preparation.
00:11:33
Speaker
No matter what I do, I always prepare. Maybe it goes back to the interview we talked about, but if I'm presenting, I practice, I practice in the shower. i make sure if I have slides, I go over them multiple times.
00:11:46
Speaker
If I have a difficult conversation I have to have with somebody, I practice. I sometimes role play with people. i think preparation is key to the way you can establish credibility in the room, be knowledgeable, do your homework.
00:12:04
Speaker
All of those things, I think, make you more successful, whether it's in a boardroom, in a presentation, in a difficult conversation, in a sales situation, any of those, all of them require you know good preparation.
00:12:19
Speaker
Great advice. I really agree with it. It's making me think once when I was a VP of product at an agency at the time, and one of the women I managed was the director of our social media team.
Leadership and Decision-Making
00:12:31
Speaker
And I remember she had to have a really difficult conversation with a young woman who reported into her. So we were working it through. we were coaching how she'd approach it how she'd structure it, what she'd say.
00:12:43
Speaker
And I remember she felt very uncomfortable with it because she said it made her feel fake to go prepped in that way. It was a moment that made me double down on it because of what you're saying. And I was like, there's nothing fake about preparing and trying to approach the conversation in like the most kind, but direct and clear and effective way possible. So I really appreciate you saying that. I think for some folks in certain situations, preparation almost feels like and counterintuitive to them. And I think it never is.
00:13:18
Speaker
No, not at it all. There's a whole chapter in MomBA about dealing with difficult client situations. And preparing is one of them. There's also, if you're doing an employee, there's the sandwich method. I'm sure you've heard about this. We start with something positive.
00:13:33
Speaker
You deal with difficult conversation and then you end with something positive. Now, unless you're firing somebody, the sandwich method is usually a pretty good way. And if you come at it with honesty, with a desire that you really are trying to help somebody be better, then comes across.
00:13:51
Speaker
You know if you're just trying to play boss and be bossy, that's a whole different thing. You're trying to give somebody difficult feedback, but in place of caring, and they know that you care. and I think that, again, the preparation just helps you be sharper. It doesn't take away from the fact that you're still being authentic and you still care and you're still trying to help that person.
00:14:10
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I had somebody once, Meredith, tell me that I wasn't giving him enough constructive feedback. And I said, you know, I am You just don't realize it ha. Instructive feedback doesn't have to feel bad. Yeah.
00:14:24
Speaker
The objective is to change someone's behavior. it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. What in some ways a compliment to you as a leader or manager. They don't even realize it.
00:14:35
Speaker
To stay on MomBA a little bit, the book is framed as career advice from one ah generation to the next or you to your daughter. Is there a lesson that you feel like you learned the really hard way that if you could go back to your younger self, you you'd give her?
00:14:51
Speaker
It's a hard one. i think that one piece of advice that I was given was sleep on it. I was once offered a promotion. I said no. Who says no?
00:15:02
Speaker
Trust me, men don't say no. But I love my job. I love my clients. I love my team. And this would have been having all my peers report to me. And my knee-jerk reaction was no.
00:15:13
Speaker
And my boss at the time was smart enough to say, you know, Karen, I think you should go home and sleep on that. Wow. Wow. And I went home and i cried the whole way home. And I was talking my husband when I got home and I said, you know, I love my clients, I love my, and he said, I don't to stand. Clearly you're the best person for the job. You have the highest revenue growth, the highest profits, the highest client set, the highest employee set.
00:15:35
Speaker
You're the best person for the job. And I was like, I don't know. And then he said something that changed my life. He said, you don't care if you don't take that job, someone else will.
00:15:49
Speaker
And i realized that I thought about my peers and i realized that I was the best person for the job. And I have to tell you, even it feels weird for me to say that. I don't know if it's a generation thing or a gender thing.
00:16:03
Speaker
I was the best person. And I went in the next day and I accepted the job. And of course, that led to my career trajectory. However, it wasn't a natural thing. I had to really do some soul searching to get comfortable with that. So sleep on it was probably a good piece of advice at the time. That's interesting.
00:16:22
Speaker
We've worked with and managed so many people.
Traits of High Achievers and Effective Delegation
00:16:25
Speaker
Do you think there's one particular skill or trait that separates high achievers from other folks? And I realize you might say preparation.
00:16:33
Speaker
yeah Actually, um I would say initiative. initiate yeah I think you can really tell the people who have star power by the ones who not only identify a problem, because as as a manager, I'm in the day-to-day anymore. I need people to identify when there's a problem, but then take it the next step and say, how can I help?
00:16:54
Speaker
What can I do to fix it? you know Again, i built my career by volunteering and going the extra step. And to me, people who take initiative, who go that extra step, who don't just swim in their little lane.
00:17:07
Speaker
Now, again, there's times in your life when you just had a baby or two babies where you really just need to get your job done and and so on. But there's other times in your life and your career where you ought to be going that extra mile and raising your hand and taking initiative.
00:17:20
Speaker
And I do believe that that's what sets high achievers apart. They're self-motivated. Yeah. Do you think there's ever a time where as a manager, you have to then pull back from that instinct a little? i think sometimes you you see folks who take that initiative, they are helpers and problem solvers, and they have so much accountability.
00:17:44
Speaker
They get into management or director VP level roles and they struggle to not do everything and to kind of ask for that type of support from their teams. Do you know what I mean? Or does that make sense as a question?
00:17:58
Speaker
No, I mean, I think that new managers struggle a lot with delegating. And because let's face it, we could all do it better than our subordinates. That's why we're the managers. But we really have to learn how to delegate properly. That's the key.
00:18:11
Speaker
aspect of moving up the ladder is being able to delegate and let go of certain things. So there's that. I also think as you start managing more senior people, i don't know this is quite answering the question, but as you manage more senior people, one of the mistakes that I think people make is to not let them make their own mistakes.
00:18:30
Speaker
Now, I don't mean bet the company things, but one example would be, let's say you want to hire Jake. Right. And I don't think Jane's the right person. Now I'm going to say to you, hey, Meredith, I'm not sure Jane's right for this job, but this is your call.
00:18:45
Speaker
This person's reporting to you. This is your call. Now what's going to happen? If I told you not to hire Jane, you're going to resent me. We're never going to know. Yeah. If you do hire Jane, I could be wrong. always, but I could be wrong and Jane could work out great or Jane doesn't work out.
00:19:01
Speaker
And now you've learned a really valuable lesson because you've made that decision. You've lived with that decision. and if it did work out, you've probably learned way more than you would have learned if I stepped in.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really great advice. I think the way that you can manage the senior leaders under you is in some ways determined by who's managing you too.
Company Culture and Imposter Syndrome
00:19:22
Speaker
i know there are times when I was in C-level roles and I felt that if I did let an employee make a mistake like that, sometimes my own boss would be critical of me for it. Does that make sense?
00:19:37
Speaker
And I think that was actually a sign that it was a difficult relationship with that particular manager for me. Or it wasn't the right company. Yeah. That has to do with culture. I had a saying, go learn, iterate. I encourage people to take risks.
00:19:50
Speaker
and that It didn't work out Again, let's learn from it. Let's iterate. Let's move forward. So, you know, one thing I've learned is you can change a lot about your job. You can change your job. You can change your position. Sometimes you can change your boss. You can change your location. Sometimes you can't change culture. And so if you're in a company where you really don't feel that there's a cultural fit,
00:20:10
Speaker
Now, if that was specific to your particular manager, that's one thing. But if that was the culture of the company that they didn't like risk taking or they were very critical when people made mistakes, that just might not be the right culture for you.
00:20:23
Speaker
Yes. Thank you. i think that you've articulated something really, I think, will resonate with a lot of folks there and definitely resonates with me. Also, you've talked about imposter syndrome a bit, and I've really loved what you've said about it.
00:20:37
Speaker
i feel like you've been really open about how you've been at really high levels of success. That's something that at times you felt, especially earlier in your career. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with imposter syndrome and what you wish more people knew?
00:20:52
Speaker
So laughing because I still suffer from the imposter I've learned that this is just always going to be the way it is. So I was working with one of our portfolio companies and they asked me to get together with them to give them advice on some reseller agreement they were working on to myself.
00:21:07
Speaker
I'm like, no, I don't know that much about this industry. I don't know that much about resellers. I don't can really help them. But the most important thing is don't let imposter syndrome stop you. Don't let it get in your way.
00:21:18
Speaker
I took the call. I got on the call with them. After five minutes, certainly I was able to help them It turned out to be great. It was very satisfying. I felt very valuable to them.
00:21:29
Speaker
And I just didn't let that little voice get in my way. So I've suffered from the imposter syndrome. When I heard it was a thing, it was like this giant weight being lifted off my shoulders that this was a thing that other people felt and it wasn't just me. And there's many tips, but the top three, I would say, is number one,
00:21:47
Speaker
People should start a fan file. Every time you have some accomplishment, your boss gives you a compliment, your client gives you a compliment, you work on a project you're really proud of, put it in your fan file.
00:21:58
Speaker
And then if you're feeling down or if you're going for a job interview, you can use that fan file to make you feel better to build your case for why you should get a promotion or go on a new job interview. The second thing is finding people who not only believe in you and like and care about you, but who are going to push you out of your comfort zone.
00:22:17
Speaker
Even my mother, i had an opportunity to do some work internationally. I didn't have to move there, but I'd have to go to Europe like every month for 18 months for a week at a time. And I was intimidated. Oh, I don't speak any foreign languages. i don't really know. and and Imposter syndrome, imposter syndrome.
00:22:33
Speaker
My mother was like, Karen, you're crazy not to do this. What a great opportunity. You're nuts not to do it. And that pushed me over the edge. So find people who will push you out of your comfort zone.
00:22:44
Speaker
And that the third one is very interesting. We always focus on our weaknesses and we try to improve But the other thing is to focus on your strength and figure out what you're really good at, what you really like, because what you like is usually what you're good at, what you're good at is something you like.
00:23:02
Speaker
And if you can hone those skills and make it a superpower, that will set you apart from other people It will make you more confident. And it's just something that we don't focus in on enough.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I tell a little quick anecdote about tennis. I'm a tennis player. ah My backhand's my weakness. I have to able to hit a backhand. But one summer, I took all my lessons on my forehand. and Instead of just a cross-court shot, I practiced it down the line. I practiced an angle. I practiced a drop shot.
00:23:30
Speaker
And I won more games that summer than any other summer by focusing on my strength. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. So fan file. So like, remember the nice things, find people who will push you outside your comfort zone and focus on your strengths and build on your strengths. I suppose. And most important, don't let it get in your way of doing something.
00:23:51
Speaker
What's the worst that's going to happen. You won't succeed. Chances are women are overqualified for any of these opportunities. When my boss offered me the promotion and i initially said, no, thank goodness. I finally said, yes, don't let it stand in your way.
00:24:07
Speaker
going to write all these down after.
Board Seats and Post-CEO Ventures
00:24:08
Speaker
you great So I wanted to ask you a bit about board seats, because I think for a lot of people, when they first get into C-level roles, a board seat is something aspirational in their future as, oh, this could be a cool next step for me. so But it also can be little mysterious as to how they happen and then what's expected of you when you're in that role.
00:24:31
Speaker
Do you have any advice for people who are curious about that, but feel maybe a little on the outside right now? Yeah, first of all, I think it starts with some self-reflection on what's the objective.
00:24:42
Speaker
Is the objective that there's something you feel passionate about, some charitable organization, you want to help and you want to do that as a volunteer? Is it something that you want to get paid for it and you want to get on a board where you're going to be paid as additional income or as the next chapter in your career?
00:25:00
Speaker
after you leave a full-time position? Is it that you just want to continue to learn and and get involved in new things? So I think it starts with what's your motivation for wanting to be on a board? And then setting realistic expectation.
00:25:13
Speaker
You're not going to get on a public board, most likely unless you have a CEO or CFO title in a pretty substantial company. So you know you want to set your expectations. There are organizations that I often recommend that people get and you know reach out to. One is called HimForHer.
00:25:30
Speaker
It's a nonprofit organization that is focused on putting qualified women on boards. Oh, wow. And now they have some additional services that they provide where I think you have to pay something in terms of board readiness and helping advise you.
00:25:44
Speaker
JPMorgan has something called Director Advisory Services. where they matchmake at no charge, corporations looking for board members, and people looking for board seats. So there's an a lot that's available out there for people.
00:25:57
Speaker
And one of the most important things is networking. You know, that's what Him for Her is all about, is helping women work because most board seats, many, many board seats are placed because somebody knows somebody who knows somebody.
00:26:08
Speaker
And that's why it's still so male-dominated because the men know the men. And that's why the women have to do more networking and get out there and make it known that you're looking for a board seat.
00:26:20
Speaker
Thank you. That's all great advice. I'll look up the Him for Her and we can put it in the show notes for anyone who's this feels relevant to or interested. You had a really long corporate career and you had a really successful exit at NPD. And I think a lot of folks might have permanently been at the beach or played tennis all day after that.
00:26:40
Speaker
But you have co-founded Duo Partners. What made you... feel like, nope, I'm still really in the game. Let's start something totally new now. I really didn't want to retire. i felt that it was time to pass the baton at NPD.
00:26:56
Speaker
I like the idea of going out on top. You know, you think about it, athletes that you admire. You don't want to overstay your welcome. It had been a very, very, very long career at NPD and i loved it, but I just felt it was time to do something different.
00:27:11
Speaker
Todd Johnson, who was NPD's founder, was wearing a lot of different hats in terms of philanthropic things. And I promised him that selling the company didn't need to mean retiring.
00:27:22
Speaker
And so duo Partners started with three early stage disruptive data companies. We were going to invest in one to two a year, and we're failing miserably because we're up to, I think, 12.
00:27:35
Speaker
And it's incredibly gratifying. It's a way of paying it forward, as we talked about earlier. It's a way of getting involved with these new technologies and AI and young founders who have great technology, great ideas, but could use some mentoring, can use some connections.
00:27:53
Speaker
And I have a lot of flexibility. I really like working. I'm practically working full time, but I have a lot more flexibility. If I need to take a day off, if I want to spend some time my grandkids, if I want to take a walk on the beach, I can do those things.
00:28:07
Speaker
There's almost never something I can't miss ah unless I'm speaking at a conference or running a panel or something. But I like the flexibility that I have, but I i like to work.
00:28:18
Speaker
I like tennis and I like the beach and I love to read, but there's always so much of that I'm interested in doing in a given week. I do. I get it. I understand. A lot of our listeners are their founders and their entrepreneurs.
Evaluating Founders and the Importance of Diversity
00:28:30
Speaker
And um one thing I wanted to ask with an eye toward that is that when you're evaluating founders for duo partners, what are some characteristics that you look for? What signals success to you?
00:28:42
Speaker
For us, frankly, it starts more with the product than the person because that's what we have to offer. It's not just about providing capital. It's providing our input, our advice, our consulting. So it needs to be a disruptive data company. What I mean by that is always on data, new technology, AI, something unique in the marketplace, something that doesn't compete with Serkana or with our other other portfolio companies.
00:29:09
Speaker
So kind of starts with the business model and the product and the service. Then we certainly look for a founder or CEO who's 100% in the business. This isn't a side gig for them. This is what they do.
00:29:25
Speaker
Somebody who is knowledgeable about their industry, is a good listener, you know, is interested in us because of what we have to offer, not just because of money, and who's capable of building a Because sometimes there's great technology and a great idea, but if you can't build a team that can help support that and grow it, the business is destined for failure.
00:29:47
Speaker
So those would be some of the criteria that we would be looking for. It makes a lot of sense. When you say build a team, do you look for folks who've had experience building teams in the past or there are certain elements of them that you feel like this person could do that?
00:30:04
Speaker
That's a good question. I think that they have always had experience. It's better if they have had experience, but if they're open, if they're not the kind of people who feel they can do it all themselves, Because again, you need complimentary skills and holding onto a team. You know, sometimes people have hired people and then they keep turning over people. That's not a great sign.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah. If they've hired people, they've got some loyal employees who are with them who want to build the business with them. you know, that's a good sign. And if they haven't, but they're a good listener and they really are willing to take advice.
00:30:36
Speaker
You know, buddy, one thing I've had to learn how to do, Meredith, is yeah as a consultant or a board member, I can say, okay, this is what you have to do. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. That's what I you know might do as an operator. Even there, I try not to be quite like that. But now I have to do, have you considered?
00:30:55
Speaker
What a big office. What about this? And that's still a skill I'm working on. Do people, do they ever ask you directly or do they say, Karen, I know you know what to do. Can you tell me I was just on a call this morning with an association that asked me for some advice on something they were doing.
00:31:14
Speaker
And I laughed about it. I said, okay, here's what you should do. And I'm like, okay, let me replace that. Have you considered? So I try to laugh at myself over that. But I have to remember that I'm not there operating the company. I'm there to provide advice.
00:31:28
Speaker
don't always have to take my advice, but I do want somebody going to ask good questions, be a good listener, not just be kind of a know-it-all. you know That would be a turnoff an investor for a founder.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. It's interesting. As you're talking, I'm thinking of the ways that you know I have no experience with investing. I do have experience, less than you, but experience with hiring and the ways that there's probably overlap in finding good employees who would also be good folks to invest in. Then there's in the Venn diagram, I'm sure there's very separate things too, but it's it's so Thank you. oh That's all so interesting and it makes a lot of sense. when hiring One of the mistakes people make, back to not letting somebody make their own mistake, another thing is hiring a mini-me.
00:32:11
Speaker
Hiring somebody who's just like you. and i had that at one point and it was so great because we you know we talked alike, we walked alike at times. you know and we we just it we we were so in insane. Maybe that's okay if you're a salesperson and you're hiring another salesperson, but if you're trying to build a team,
00:32:28
Speaker
really want is diversity. And when I say diversity, I mean diversity of everything, diversity of thinking, experts versus introverts, people who are into finance versus people are into product, people who are into clients, people who come from different backgrounds and experiences, because that's what's going to make for a much stronger team.
00:32:47
Speaker
Yes, I appreciate you saying that. I think that's great advice. I think at times I've skewed in that direction myself, even in just an an agency environment. Or sometimes I think in hindsight, I was actually projecting things onto the person I was hiring. I was seeing aspects of myself that maybe weren't even necessarily there. I was in la-la land and not really seeing the person.
00:33:10
Speaker
i think that's fantastic advice. Thank you. When you think of the the founders that you're advising or the companies and the products themselves, I suppose, what do you think the biggest challenges that some of your leaders might face in the next couple of years are?
00:33:27
Speaker
Or what are they navigating right now?
Modern CEO Challenges and Exciting Projects
00:33:29
Speaker
So I think not just those leaders, but CEOs. Wait, this one I have to like book up because I'll tell you there's so many. So geopolitical tensions, tariffs, new changing regulations, the impact of technology,
00:33:44
Speaker
I mean, all of this is is today's current CEOs are just, their heads are spinning because there's so much coming at them. And I was just on a call with a group. This isn't just for founders. This is really for existing CEOs.
00:33:58
Speaker
And what we were talking about, it was a peer sharing group, was that the most important thing right now for people is to pace themselves for senior, senior people. This is going to be yeah not something that's going to be happening over the next week.
00:34:13
Speaker
There are going to be changes. There are regulation changes. There are tariffs. There are all sorts of things. And just pace themselves, talk to their peers so that they can understand what other people in their industries are doing about some of these challenges.
00:34:27
Speaker
And the other advice for CEOs was to not necessarily stand out and take a stand on something right now to sort of stay a little bit below the radar until we sort of see how a lot of things shake out as opposed to really coming out guns blazing, because that is likely to backfire in today's environment.
00:34:50
Speaker
It's a challenging time for anybody in a leadership position. Interestingly, the small company founders have less of would that to worry about. They're just keeping their heads above water, trying to build their companies, trying to hire people, trying to make sure that they're getting exposure in PR and things like that. I think it's the CEOs of the large companies, the big retailers, the big manufacturers in the country that it's a tough job right now. It's always been a tough job, but it's a tough job.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, I love that advice about actually staying a little under the radar right now. I think it's in some circles almost contrarian because for years it was CEOs need to take a stand, big point of view, your company, your employees, your customers need to know your values and It's really tricky. And sometimes you're inadvertently alienating folks you don't want to or things shake out. And you're like, oh, actually, it's not that's not really my view anymore, especially for Medberry. Thinking about LinkedIn and messaging. I think that's fantastic advice, but it's advice that people don't always give.
00:35:58
Speaker
We were just talking about that exact thing, how five years ago CEOs were it was irresponsible not to speak yeah on topics and No, you know, silence wasn't acceptable. Like you had to take stands on many issues.
00:36:13
Speaker
And now again, what we were talking about is to try to just kind of stay, as we talked about, a little bit under the radar until things sort of shake out. And then be prepared, though. We talked about preparedness.
00:36:24
Speaker
Have your statements ready on whatever the topic is. Write it all out. Get your board approval. Have it ready. So in case you're put in a position where you have to, have a point of view, then you know at least what you plan to say, what you want to say, what your board supports you to say. So you're ready for it, but not necessarily in a proactive way.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yes. In some ways, going back to what you said earlier about, I think, really being a really, really good listener right now and just trying to to absorb the landscape as opposed to draw a line in the sand.
00:36:58
Speaker
I didn't clock preparedness is such an incredible through line for you, but I feel like I'll be thinking about it a lot after this conversation. What is the most exciting thing or several that you're working on at Duo Partners? What's really got you focused right now?
00:37:14
Speaker
Well, there's a few. i mean, I hate to pick out any particular one of our companies because they're like, you know, i love them all. i am really excited about Charm because they're tracking TikTok shops data.
00:37:28
Speaker
And in last year alone, in the US s alone, it was $7 billion. dollars $7 billion. dollars So that's a really important marketplace. There's a company called Reviews out of Israel that I love because they're turning using AI to create hubs around users like the marketing people, the product development people, instead of just having a one-size-fits-all product.
00:37:51
Speaker
And these marketing hubs will be driven by AI. So the marketing person or the product development person could ask it or the retailers can ask it specific questions and get answers using consumer reviews data. I find that very exciting.
00:38:06
Speaker
i could go on and on. I also run these networking events. something called Conversation and Cocktails that I started during the pandemic with executive level women getting together on Zoom. And now we've started doing some in-person events.
00:38:18
Speaker
I'm doing a Galentine's Day event next Monday for a small group of women. And I just love, love that. I like matchmaking, being able to take some of these companies and some people who could use their services and kind of put them together. Yeah. And when that happens and the magic happens, it's very rewarding to be able to do that kind matchmaking.
00:38:41
Speaker
right, i have a few kind of rapid fire closing questions. The first is I know you're a really big reader. Is there one book that has changed the way that you think about business?
Influential Books and Personal Organization
00:38:53
Speaker
Not so much. I did like Radical Candor ah lot, but there are two books that changed how I think about life and health. And I cite more so than business. Okay. One was called Younger Next Year. Okay.
00:39:05
Speaker
And the gist of the book is work out six days a week and don't eat junk. And the second book is called Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Oh, I've read that. Both of these books have a lot of research in it. I like research in Why We Sleep. It'll take every single one of the benefits of sleep and then go into all the research as to why it's true.
00:39:24
Speaker
And I just love and found it to be, you know, both of them really motivating for for my own health and well-being. I really like Radical Candor. I haven't read the second. I'll read that.
00:39:37
Speaker
I want to tell you a story. When I read Why We Sleep, my husband and some of our friends, we were all on a group vacation and it was my plane book. And it did something that made me suddenly so nervous about not sleeping. I had my first bout of insomnia ever for like three days and then I was over it. Like, I think it's a great book, but man, like we really need sleep. It does a lot for us.
00:40:01
Speaker
Exactly. What is a habit that has been essential to your success? Not preparedness, maybe. This is very tactical, but I i take i make lists and my lists have lists. And and to me, once I put something on paper,
00:40:17
Speaker
or in my you know my iPad or whatever format I use, that's out of my head and don't have to worry about it. I'm not a worrier by nature. So if if there's something on my mind, as long as I make a list and I have it all down on paper, then I can just start attacking it.
00:40:32
Speaker
And I also color code my calendar so that, you know, I talk about how you can never get balance in a day or even in a week, but if you color code your calendar, client things, personal things, family things, external versus internal when I was working.
00:40:48
Speaker
And then I can look at it out a month at a time and make sure I kind of have balance a month at a time. And if there's so any too much of any one color, I try to adjust. That's very cool. When you, for your list, do you have any specific systems that you use or is it just lists across like the various mediums you're using?
00:41:08
Speaker
It changes. ah Right now, I'm kind of back to paper and pencil. Sometimes I was using my iPad, but I always have a personal list and a business to-do list, and then I have some way of prioritizing. So right now, you know a star, two stars, three stars, based on which things have to really get done, either because they're time-sensitive or they're really important.
00:41:27
Speaker
I love it. I love when really successful folks give really simple advice like that because, you know, sometimes it's like there's this idea that, oh, there's like eight different tandem calendars, lists, processes, project management systems, quadrants, just a list.
00:41:45
Speaker
And I'll show you my cat my color follow calendar as well. Oh, you print it out. Wow. Very cool. And you can see, I basically can see at a glance if something's amiss.
00:41:56
Speaker
So you could see like maybe say if purple was like exercise and you're, and you noted, you'd be like, oh next week, like and need to get more purple in there, for example. Yeah. I mean, things like family, friends, work things, client things versus internal work things, pick whatever colors make sense for your business. But making sure when people talk about balance, again, you'll never get balance in a day or a week, but strive to get it at least in a month.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, I like that. All
Advice for Future Women Leaders
00:42:23
Speaker
right. Final question. If there was one piece of advice you could give to the next generation of women in leadership, what would it be? I have to go back to what we talked about earlier.
00:42:33
Speaker
Unfortunately, i don't think there's a vaccine for the imposter syndrome. And i can't believe that we're still talking about it 20 years later, but it seems alive and well.
00:42:43
Speaker
And so I would just say, don't let it stand in your way. Take the risks, go for it. Take the promotion, take the job, take the risk, because the worst that could happen is it won't work out. You pick yourself up and go learn and iterate.
00:42:59
Speaker
Thank you. Karen, thank you so much for this. I'm so grateful and really excited and energized by a lot of things you said. Is there any final things that we didn't cover that you would want to say mention?
00:43:12
Speaker
No, no, i I think you're terrific. I love what you you and your team are doing. And i look forward to watching you continue to be super successful. Oh, man. Thank you.