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00:00:01
Sanja Komljenovic
110 Plays8 days ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Sanja Komljenovic.
To keep up with or connect with Sanja:
✨ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanjakomljenovic/
✨ Website: https://www.onacreative.com/
To stay in touch with Meredith and Medbury:
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Medbury on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/medbury_agency/
Subscribe to the Medbury newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Email Meredith: Meredith@MedburyAgency.com
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Transcript
Career Beginnings and Transition
00:00:00
Speaker
Thank you so much for doing this. You do so much. When someone asks you what you do, how do you describe it? So I think I'm first and foremost, a brand marketer by profession. That's like how I think of myself on a day-to-day basis.
00:00:14
Speaker
I'm a thinker, doer, and a creator. and then ultimately like the output is I make ads that make people want to fall in love with brands. But as a very functional, if somebody was like, Hey, so what do you do? I would say I own and operate a creative agency production company in a studio space in Los Angeles.
00:00:31
Speaker
I like that. So you've had an incredible journey. You started in sports marketing, worked at Nike, then you launched Ona. What made you decide to go out on your own? I think ultimately, I'm just not like a corporate girly. Like I think at the end of the day, i worked for the Los Angeles Clippers prior to working at Nike. I got recruited by Nike.
00:00:50
Speaker
I actually did not want to go, which is crazy because people are like, what do you mean you were going to turn down Nike? But I got hit up in three different ways, like LinkedIn, Twitter. And like I got a message in my email and I was like, no way am i leaving L.A. for Portland.
00:01:06
Speaker
And I love my job at the Clippers. So when I moved to Portland, like I left all my friends in l LA behind. Not that I lived there very long, but I already established a sense of community. and then when I worked for Nike, my life was Nike.
00:01:18
Speaker
All the people I hung out with, everything I ever did, day-to-day basis. And corporate culture is such that like you sit in meetings all day and then you end up working at night all the time. And that got really tiresome after a while. And i am not a good politician, right? I love my job now because I get to help someone who's on the other side dealing with the same thing. Like I get to make them look really good.
00:01:43
Speaker
And we get to give them all of the tools they need to be successful. But I don't have to do the part where I'm Trying to get people on my side internally and to understand what we're doing. And that I think was very difficult for me just because I'm a very transparent, slightly a little aggressive person.
00:02:02
Speaker
And so for me, it just felt like if I was really passionate about something, it was perceived as potentially negative. And for all the good work that we ever did, I had to really fight really hard. And it was emotionally tumultuous for me. Not everybody feels that way. Like, that's just not the way I wanted to operate. So when I quit, I just literally quit.
00:02:24
Speaker
I didn't have a game plan. i just said, hey, I'm going to give you guys a month's notice. My lease was expiring on my apartment in Portland. I really missed l la I had friends in Portland, but I really missed my like culture and my community in LA. And I literally told my parents, I said, if I have to bartend again or do whatever, I'll just go back to that for a little while until I sort it out.
00:02:46
Speaker
Because I was applying for other jobs and I was like ending up as the second, like out of sports. was like, I ended up, oh no, they called me back actually and asked me to potentially take that job. But it was like another Facebook sports job. ended up second at the NFL. Like I got just very close to getting in there and then moving back to LA and it just never panned out.
00:03:06
Speaker
Wow, that's so interesting.
Gender Challenges in Corporate Culture
00:03:08
Speaker
And what you said about the politicking really resonates with me. And I do think there's something where if you really care and you're really good at what you do and you're a woman, and I don't know maybe you won't agree with this, but I feel like you become a target of projection really fast.
00:03:24
Speaker
And like, it's almost harder for you sometimes in those environments. You just have to deal with other people's perception of you way more than the work in a complicated way. Yeah, and I'll say this, that once I left,
00:03:35
Speaker
And it was like two, three months. I ended up on a basketball project because i'm working in a male dominated field. Clipper, Los Angeles Clippers. And then I ran social digital for Nike basketball. So all of their like social integrated campaigns, let's say Kobe's coming back from an injury.
00:03:51
Speaker
Me and my team have to figure out like how that ad comes to life on social and like how do we make an impact? And So mostly male dominated teams, which is not an issue, but I felt like I either had to do good work or be liked.
00:04:05
Speaker
Like it was one or the other. yeah And again, very difficult for me. I've literally had people say to me in the meetings, and this person's a friend of mine now. We had this campaign called Summer Serious where we were pitching like, hey,
00:04:18
Speaker
The players were going to get drafted online. I literally had a colleague in a meeting say, well, i don't I just don't trust you to pick the athletes. It was me and another male colleague as well, to be fair. It wasn't just me.
00:04:29
Speaker
But they're like, yeah I wouldn't trust your guy. um this judgment And that's hard to hear in a room full of 20 people. So things like that would happen, which is fine. Like I get it. Like I understand people's perceptions and it's fine.
00:04:43
Speaker
at the end of the day, just not a fun working environment when you feel like you're always, and by the way, we executed that campaign. It went down in history. One of the greatest, best, most integrated campaigns Nike's ever done at that time.
00:04:56
Speaker
And it's still hailed as one of the best. So I don't know. It is a hard thing to deal with, but it is also, I think at the end of the day, probably like what drives me now to do great work.
Consulting and Founding Ona
00:05:06
Speaker
Wow. My understanding is that so you took this huge leap of faith. You're like, I will figure it out. I just can't.
00:05:12
Speaker
I don't want to do this anymore. But then it was like two weeks after that you got a call from Nike's US football team. Is that right? And so that must have been cool. Like, what was that experience like? What was that phone call like? Did you expect it?
00:05:26
Speaker
No, I didn't. And the cool part is one of the things that I talk to students now about is like life's about relationships. It's about connections. It's about who knows you. And it really is your reputation.
00:05:37
Speaker
And I think one of the things I didn't mention in my earlier comment, which I'll circle back to now, if you do great work, It like people notice, right? So the football team called me and asked me to come help on a project, did not expect it. So my last day at Nike was a Friday.
00:05:51
Speaker
and my first day at Nike as a consultant or a project manager, producer, et cetera, was a Monday. I knew the org inside and out. I knew how to get things moving, how to get things done.
00:06:04
Speaker
So not expected. But again, it was somebody who knew me, who knew my work product and felt like they wanted to bring me on because they're like, I don't think another agency person is going to get it like you get it.
00:06:15
Speaker
Similarly, the basketball team called me two months later to help with another project. And this is the part I wanted to circle back to is it was interesting because I had so many honest conversations after that ah about our interpersonal conversations.
00:06:30
Speaker
And everyone's like, it is such a different place, like place since you've left, like you've left such big shoes to fill. People who I had thought we didn't have a great relationship were starting to call me i like a couple of years later, but like starting to call me to do projects with me.
00:06:44
Speaker
So it really wasn't. personal, right? Like at the end of the day, it was never personal. And I think that's the other part that maybe I didn't get to really explain earlier. Like, I think we sometimes feel things so personally, like it's against me or I'm a bad person, not a bad person, but like, I'm feeling bad about this. yeah But really it is about like their point of view and them wanting you to accept their point of view. And when you don't, there's contention when you're outside of those walls and you're now helping from the outside, it's a much different relationship.
00:07:15
Speaker
Getting that call was instrumental to everything I did later, but it was a really big part of me understanding, again, that it wasn't necessarily me, it that people were having a hard time with. It was just how it was.
00:07:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting. Okay, i want to talk about the name a little bit because Ona means her in Bosnian. Is that right? So like beyond a cool name, how does that speak to how you're running the agency? Why did you land on that?
00:07:44
Speaker
So Ona means her because i think I had a 30-year-old crisis. Like I hit 30. And even when I was in Nike and I was considering leaving, I think I was like, what am I doing with my life? And I'm just, am I just selling sneakers? What's happening?
00:07:58
Speaker
and it wasn't until I started oha And even before I started Ona, when I just started my own thing and I was exploring what I wanted to do when I realized like what I'm trying to show is that a woman can make it in a man's world.
00:08:13
Speaker
But what i should be doing is helping other women elevate and accelerate. And so in my mind, when I created Ona, I wanted it be a space for not just women, but anybody who's been left out of a conversation.
00:08:27
Speaker
And that includes like, honestly, white men too, who might have never been given a shot at something, right? But have a really special talent and nobody got to see it for one reason or another. Like top line, like example here, I had an art director that had a stutter that,
00:08:44
Speaker
People like would never let him present. And I was like, he's so brilliant. Like, why would people not let him in other agencies present? Honestly, and if a client had a problem with that, whatever, not our client. So I think really seeing people for who they are is a really big part of what ONA is about.
00:09:01
Speaker
And it does stem from this like feminism angle. But it also is a connection back to my roots. I'm a Bosnian refugee. Ona means her in Bosnian.
00:09:12
Speaker
And it just holds a bigger meaning that kind of grew over time. I love it. Everything you just said is
Brand Campaigns and Authenticity
00:09:18
Speaker
resonating with me. And I'm thinking about similar moments in my career where there's been folks who for some reason or another they were thought of as not like client facing.
00:09:29
Speaker
And it was just a bias used. And also i now want to tell you, so Medbury, my agency is the name of the road I grew up on in upstate New York. But in old English, it means two things. One is a castle for maidens.
00:09:42
Speaker
And the other is a castle that's so strong that even a single woman could defend it. Like it's just such a fortress. Oh, I love that. <unk>ring So I loved when I saw Ona i was her, I was like, oh, I want a double click on that. It's very cool.
00:09:56
Speaker
A lot of what you're saying is resonating with me. Okay, so you work with brands like and Nike, WNBA, U.S. s Soccer, Ulta Beauty, WYN by Serena Williams. I'm sure I'm missing some really big ones. and It's Wynn by Cineria. Oh, is it? So like you're you're doing so much incredible stuff with really cool brands. Right now, what projects are exciting you the most?
00:10:19
Speaker
So i think, to your point, I work with some of the biggest, most exciting brands in the world. But for me, at the end of the day, it's really about the work. I love big, great creative ideas. I love seeing them come to life. I love telling honest stories, like truthful stories about humans, right?
00:10:38
Speaker
And sometimes the biggest friends don't always let you do that. Sometimes you've got to win their trust over time to be able to let you do that, right? So if you ask me like what some of my favorite work is, like in the past and coming up,
00:10:51
Speaker
I would say that they're not always the most well-known campaigns are brands. As an example, if you don't mind me going down this rabbit hole a little bit. so yeah So with Milk Stork, like we did this a very long time ago before it was a thing, but we helped free mom from a brand advertising lens, from societal expectations or being seen as just stay-at-home mom or just a working mom.
00:11:13
Speaker
But this idea that like women have interests like all the way in between. So we should represented it with a pumping hockey mom, right? Like a woman that's in hockey gear. It's just against the seamless, but she's hooked up to a pump.
00:11:26
Speaker
Again, it represents that like moms aren't one thing or another thing. They're all of these things in between. And even we had a model on set that had these stretch marks and she looked at me and she goes, are my stretch marks too much? And I go, no, they're absolutely beautiful.
00:11:41
Speaker
What are you talking about? it so I think just seeing people for who they are and being able to tell those stories is what, Us as brand marketers, at least I get the most excited about.
00:11:52
Speaker
Another campaign that we are coming up again, but we have done over time is this Nike and JD Sports. It's like not so insightful in terms of like we're shattering some societal issues.
00:12:04
Speaker
perception, but we were working with these like up and coming hip hop artists who have these like rabid communities. It's called the Global Air Collective. We've done a bunch of work with them and we're about to launch the next season of it.
00:12:15
Speaker
It's really fun and impactful, but also seeing these individual fan bases of this talent come together, one post and then the other posts. And again, these are not mega stars, but you're seeing like comments from fans and reactions and And that there's a community there. And that's super fun, too. Like the people are recognizing it. And then you get to tell this like amazing music story over and over again. And then I would say one of the ones that we just most recently did with Ulta was this HBCU you campaign. Because if you know anything about HBCUs, the historically black colleges, their band and their majorettes are a bigger story and more exciting than the actual football team.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah. Where it's not the same case, like where I went to University of Florida. But same thing when we did these like initial drops where we surprised majorettes with a shopping haul at Ulta. And then we did this coverage like of a classic game.
00:13:09
Speaker
So we like skipped homecoming because we knew all the brands were doing homecoming. And we did this like HBCU classic between two teams went out and did this beautiful photography. We had like film photography as well as regular digital. It was like digital is social first, but also at the same time, like elevated in every single way.
00:13:28
Speaker
Seeing the reaction from the community and feedback is just feels like such an incredible win, right? So I'm hoping to do more things like that. I'm really pushing brands to think moving forward in this community mindset. Like how do we move towards telling like these stories of people moving forward?
00:13:47
Speaker
And I can't say too much about what we're working on because obviously that I can't talk about campaigns haven't done yet. That's super cool. It sounds like you guys are especially adept at like getting really in the weeds with a brand and understanding the audience because that's so smart what you did and so nuanced.
00:14:05
Speaker
And I feel like if you're immediately getting fan reactions, like that's genuine, that's content that's really resonating. That's super cool. What's like your behind the scenes process when you're all just kicking off with a brand and trying to ideate on new content?
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know, you asked me earlier about just like Ona's mission and everything. And I think the very, very first most important thing is ensuring as much as you can that whatever you're working on, you have somebody who's an expert on it, right? Whether it's like culturally an expert on it or they understand not just the demographic, but like, I'm making this up again, like a movie audience type style, right? Whatever you're working on, you really want to tap into those like deep truths.
00:14:50
Speaker
yeah So whether it's somebody on our team or it's going and finding a human who really just deeply understands the space really getting them and multiple people on our team to tap in on what the insights are and really getting beyond the surface level insights into like deep human truths.
00:15:12
Speaker
Me and a woman that is my mentee, my mentor as well. She worked with me at Nike, her name's Ramonita Smith. And we talk a lot about like how to be completely transparent,
00:15:25
Speaker
really poor brand marketing is at a lot of companies and how a lot of companies don't understand this idea of human truths. I'm starting another company called The Focus Group with her, where we're going to teach brand marketers on how to market.
00:15:38
Speaker
why And because it really is like such a lost art, but it is really starts with that from a process standpoint. It's can we get a great brief from the client? And if we can't get a great brief from the client, how do we make our own brief?
00:15:52
Speaker
How do we make sure that we convince the client of the insights that we have coming at us? The very first setup of the deck is always like you're trying to get people to head nod. And say, yes, okay, I agree with that. Yes, that's like a human thing that people do.
00:16:06
Speaker
And then you dive deep into the ideas and ideas of them themselves from a strategic perspective may also have certain insights in them, if that makes sense. Today, we pitched this idea about people debating, people love to debate.
00:16:20
Speaker
So if you're going to use influencers, let's use like man in the street type. influencers and let's have people debate because that is their organic way of using that type of influencer. So everything we do, we try to be really intentional that it lines up with consumer behaviors and what consumers expect, even down to the tiniest details in terms of perfecting how the content comes to life or perfecting how that idea is actually executed.
00:16:46
Speaker
How are you guys sourcing influencers?
Influencer Marketing Insights
00:16:48
Speaker
is it are you Do you work with agencies? do you have your own giant list? Do you just look for people when you have a new client? You're like, all let's dig in. The main part is like, if we have a new client, we dig in from, yeah, just looking at who the right person is to line and up them up with the right brand.
00:17:04
Speaker
I think the influencer space is super incredibly oversaturated right now. So I always try to encourage clients to work again in that authentic manner where it feels good for the talent and it feels good for them on the other side. So they're not just like paying somebody just to post, but it feels like an authentic connection back to the brand. And i've I'm sure most influencers want that as well. Like they they truly want to feel like They are being seen, heard, and felt by the company that they're working with. And it's not just like a transactional relationship.
00:17:41
Speaker
To answer your question, we honestly just set a crew out to just start looking, Googling, and finding the right people. Sometimes we use tools, but for the most part, it's really about finding. like I have a thing on my phone, and every time I find somebody interesting, I like save them because I'm like, oh.
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I don't know what we can use this person for, that's a really cool story. And like, we may want to tell that story at some point through a branded piece of content. So interesting. i feel like as you're talking, I'm thinking of the ways in which sometimes the influencer, like if a brand's partnering with an influencer that's selected it can make consumers or customers feel so seen because they're like, oh, this is my person. This person is like so in the thick of it. They have such an affinity for them.
00:18:26
Speaker
And you can tell when an influencer is doing something that's like a pretty blanket bland brand partnership. And they're like, yes, versus when it's like the perfect fit and so organic and the audience gets so excited about it. So that's super cool.
00:18:40
Speaker
Sometimes the person with the biggest reach is not the best person for your brand. There had been multiple times where we have talked brands into working with someone they didn't necessarily think aligned.
00:18:53
Speaker
with who they were, but that has taken their brand to the next level in terms of influence, credibility in the space, and just the way we match the message.
00:19:05
Speaker
The client, right? Like it's the right campaign, right message, right time kind of thing, and the right talent, right person. Brands will be like, oh, I think that person might be too hip for us. But at the end of the day, I'm a personal believer that certain talent moves the needle more than certain other talent.
00:19:19
Speaker
And part of but that is the authenticity of the message. But part of that is also just personal. What do you go to that person for? Right. Just out of curiosity, are you guys like digging into Substack at all? I feel like it's just been so on my mind for various reasons in the last few months or weeks, really even.
Creative Platforms and Work Dynamics
00:19:36
Speaker
No. No, not at all. I barely know what it is. walk yeah Oh, wow. I feel like there's so much happening there right now. And so far as like creatives building up huge, super dedicated, pretty niche audiences.
00:19:52
Speaker
And I think they're going to be like the next wave of Instagram influencers. So that's my hypothesis. I'm sure someone on my team has, by the way, I'm sure someone on my team's like in it, on it, looking at it, but this is also where you got trust your people.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So like what does a typical week look like for you right now? Oh man, all over the place. So ah every week is based on, okay, let me back up. So the sad part of my life is that I feel like I can never plan.
00:20:18
Speaker
And you probably know this as like another founder, like you're in the middle of, oh, this is going so well, we're so organized and like everything just, yeah. topples because you get a call or a text or an email, whether it's new biz, or we got to make a pivot or etc. It like sets you off course.
00:20:38
Speaker
But like yesterday, as an example, I said I had from 8am in the morning to 11pm at night, I had a shoot. Today I'm recording with you. i had some client meetings in the morning.
00:20:51
Speaker
Last week, honestly, I was doing mostly like talent negotiations for an upcoming project, the hip hop work for JD and Nike. And then any other week I could be dealing with like office because we have a studio that we're standing up and anything new you ever do, there's always like all these little things that need to be done.
00:21:08
Speaker
yeah I'm not per se a micromanager, but I am in the weeds. Meaning that unless I feel like I can fully trust my team on whatever thing that they are on, more than likely I am sitting in the weeds somewhere being like, yes, no, you can move this forward. Let's think through this a little bit more and come back to me with more information before we make this decision. i'm not ready because of the information that's been provided isn't where I want it to be. So truly like any week can look like anything.
00:21:37
Speaker
And sometimes I'm sitting around concepting with the team. Like it's truly all over the place. Do you ever have a moment where you're like, you're in the thick of it and you're like, wow, this is it. This is what I wanted.
00:21:48
Speaker
Or do you always feel like you're chasing like the next goal?
00:21:53
Speaker
I more likely have a moment where I'm like in the thick of it and I'm like, why did I do this to myself? This is not what I wanted. What am I doing? Is this what I want?
00:22:05
Speaker
Am I sure that this is what I want? Yes, both. Like, I want to say that my moments are not like huge ups and downs. They're like more like this over time. Yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah.
00:22:19
Speaker
But yeah, I have a, my new year's resolution is no new things because I love to come up with new ideas and start them at all times, even shopping. I'm like, no new things. You don't need anything new. Just stick with what you got, make it work, make it happen. and then you can start something new.
00:22:35
Speaker
But yeah, I am very appreciative of my business. I am very appreciative of everything we do. So I don't want to make it sound but like it is sometimes so overwhelmingly much.
00:22:46
Speaker
like I can't tell you, like we are killing it right now, but it is also slightly killing me. You know what mean? and Again, I'm sure you feel this too from time to time. I'm sure all founders do, but there's times where I'm just like, it's a Saturday and I got to work and it's a Sunday and I got to work.
00:23:01
Speaker
And if this doesn't get done, because you so often feel like your reputation's on the line or whatnot. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, it both. Yes and no. It's funny. know what you said? That really resonates with me. I feel like the first year or so, it was like huge highs, huge lows.
00:23:17
Speaker
And then over time, it just like it settles out. There's still dips and valleys. But I also think everyone has days where sometimes they're like, I don't like my job right now. But when you're the one who invented your job, you're like, what's wrong with me? And then the next day, something amazing happens. So the next day, you're just in a different headspace. And I feel writing that out is helpful for me.
00:23:33
Speaker
I tell you, like, if I could take three months off, Like, yeah like I think the Patagonia founder like takes three months off a year and goes like, do stuff. I'm like, if I could take three months off the better humans that I would come back as the like more organized, thoughtful, better decision maker, more healthy human that I would come back.
00:23:51
Speaker
But as a founder, And an owner, you don't get that option. and And I'm sure there's going to be people listening who are like, yeah, sure. You just hire the right people. Do you know how hard it is to find the right people? You know, like how much, how expensive the right people are. And even the best people are not going to make the decisions you make.
00:24:07
Speaker
And at least you can live with your bad decisions. yeah God forbid somebody makes a bad decision and it topples something. You would never forgive yourself. Like you, You spent 10 years building this thing. You're just going to turn around and be like, whatever, who cares?
00:24:20
Speaker
Leave, let me keep my child in somebody else's hands and let them deal with it. It's just a different, like slightly unhealthy, slightly obsessive and slightly ego driven, but also an incredible thing.
00:24:31
Speaker
Right? Yeah. No, it resonates a lot with me. So is there something about running an agency that has come unexpectedly easy to you where you're like, wow, I'm just like pretty naturally good at this or attuned to this or have an affinity for?
00:24:47
Speaker
Probably like, I feel I'm a little bit of a jack of all trades. it's like It goes both ways. I'm a little bit of a jack of all trades. Like I can pick this up really quickly, if that makes sense. Like you show me once and I'm pretty much like, I got it. I'm a big talker, but I'm also a good listener. So I can kind of suss out where the client is or is not pretty quickly. And I can read the room pretty quickly. And again, it goes back to not everyone's your client kind of thing. Sometimes maybe if I can't read them, or I'm not reading them correctly, or i we can't give them what they need, we're maybe not just not the right partner for them.
00:25:24
Speaker
But I would say that's like a big part of our success is just being able to read the situation and like they actually want and how they want it Like that empathetic part. Yeah. From a feeling standpoint, I would say that. And then another thing that I thought is way, that's way easier than I thought it would be while a lot of work, production.
00:25:42
Speaker
Production is actually a lot of work, but it is not hard in terms of this part, right? It's a lot of problem solving. If you can problem solve on the go, and if you can stay calm and get things done, it's not as hard as like strategy or concepting. Like I feel like those parts are actually quite a bit harder.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree with that. Totally. It's funny when you're talking about the empathy thing. It's something I think about a lot because I think most people who do client work, they're good listeners to your point.
00:26:13
Speaker
They're really able to tap into someone else and kind of intuit. This is kind of what they want. You can read the room, you can attune. But one, and think if you're not careful, that can be very energetically draining.
00:26:24
Speaker
And my sense is that maybe there's some folks who can do that, like behind ah glass wall of like, this is my energy, this is your energy. That's not me. And I think that is tough.
00:26:36
Speaker
And then also too, sometimes I think agencies have a line to cross between how intuitive and tuned in are we versus where are we like over people pleasing here in a way that's not good. Yeah.
00:26:49
Speaker
and like I'm not articulating it, but like. No, you are. i think you have a question in there. It's like how do you know when to stop pushing? Yeah. Or when you stop giving, like, what's the percentage? Is it that the agency gives 70% and the client gives 30? Is it 80-20? Is it 50-50? Like, what do you think that breakdown is in so far as attunement and effort?
00:27:08
Speaker
And I know that's a random question, but i feel like you'll be like the perfect person to ask for that.
Client Relationships and Agency Life
00:27:12
Speaker
I'm going to answer this in two different ways. So one is the best relationships are 50-50. It's like when the client thinks of you as a partner and you think of them as a partner.
00:27:22
Speaker
And this is the way I treat my team. I want all the information. I want to know whatever. This is why we have a diverse team. I want to know all the lived experiences. I want to know what you're bringing the table. I want to know your ideas.
00:27:35
Speaker
I want to know if you don't like my idea. And I want you to tell me. But then I'm going to make the decision. Like at the end of the day, it is my decision. Clients need to do the same. They should be open and not make us feel bad when we push back on them.
00:27:50
Speaker
But then also be like, hey, guys, we hear you, but we really feel like in a kind way, we got to move in this direction. Thank you. Got it. Like. From an internal politics standpoint or from an internal sentiment, la, la, la, I can't sell this in, just an FYI. And it's that partnership that's the best.
00:28:07
Speaker
But I tell people that there's like three things. Two of the three things have to exist in a client agency relationship for there to be a decent relationship. And people will argue that one is more important than the others, but I think it's two of the three.
00:28:21
Speaker
One, that the budget is there. Two, that the project's a fun one, something you want to work on. and excited to work on. And three, the person that you're working with, like you love working with, or like, it's a great relationship.
00:28:36
Speaker
Two of the three have to be there. And some people will say that third one is the most important. And maybe it is. But like, honestly, if someone's not the nicest human being, but they make decent decisions, and I can get budget, and I can get a great fun project, we will make great work.
00:28:53
Speaker
We will, as a team, make great work. You know what mean? and But again, some people will say that third one is really the most important because at the end of the day, they are the ones that are determining whether you're done or not because they're like your gatekeeper.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah. No, I think that's super interesting. I feel like sometimes even if the work seems boring – But to your point, there's the budget and there's someone that the team just wants to like please so bad. Then all of a sudden you find ways to make the work fun because everyone's like they want it to be good and it gets there.
00:29:23
Speaker
Exactly. Like it really is two of the three really need to be there. Or if the project is so fun, budget sucks, but you're like, this is so fun. This feels like vacation for me. Like working on this feels like fun, not like a thing. And the client's great.
00:29:40
Speaker
We're good. I love that. I'm going to remember these three things. Thank you. All right. So on the flip side of what comes easy to you, what do you think the hardest thing about running an agency is?
00:29:51
Speaker
So it's the, I'm a Jack of all trades, but that's the hardest part, right? I think a lot of people want to start a business. Yeah. And any business, not just the agency, it's probably any business, right? One agency is time consuming.
00:30:05
Speaker
There's no way around it. You're selling your time, right? You're selling your time and your team's time. You're not making a product that can like exponentially get bigger. And then maybe you don't need as much of a team.
00:30:15
Speaker
i mean, you always need you have some efficiencies around product, especially tech, but in agency world, you're selling your time really hard to be good at all the things. And the liability is crazy, right?
00:30:28
Speaker
You are talking about, in our case, being good being a lawyer, a finance person, creative. And creative is subjective. It's not like when you go to your accountant and you ask them to do your taxes and there's a right and a wrong answer, and maybe they're getting it wrong and you don't even know.
00:30:43
Speaker
It's like, no, everybody walks in as an expert on the creative side and they're like, well, you know, and you're like, wrong, but that's okay. You're going to keep moving. Strategy, technical execution of art, technical execution of copy.
00:30:56
Speaker
What if you put up something that... is illegal, racist, sexist, and you don't even know, right? Again, this is where diversity of thought comes in.
00:31:08
Speaker
Liability is crazy. What if you have a production and a celebrity slips and falls and hurts themselves? And we're working with moms and And babies and pregnant women and like liability is nuts, right? But you have to be good or thoughtful about all these things. You have to carry the stress of it all. And I think that's the hardest part. And the things that people don't consider because they're like, I'm really good at coming up with ideas.
00:31:32
Speaker
That's like this part of the job. Yeah, you can be the best idea person ever. But if you can't figure out how to make that idea happen and do it in a way that's going to keep you and everybody else safe, effectively, both financially, legally, and like physically safe, it doesn't matter how many great ideas you have.
00:31:52
Speaker
So yeah, it's doing it all. It's just really hard. Yeah, no, it's true. All right. So I want to talk about this quote of yours that it was in an interview on Medium and it jumped out at me. I'm going to read it. It's a little bit long.
Societal Impact and Authentic Storytelling
00:32:05
Speaker
But you said, i use my success to bring goodness to the world by altering the subconscious. Sounds strange. I know. But the thing about marketing and branding is that it's all subconscious.
00:32:16
Speaker
If you see a racial minority represented a certain way over and over again, you'll likely develop a racial bias, which can sometimes be negative. My career path ah allows me to use what I know about advertising and communications to represent people in a positive light.
00:32:31
Speaker
With the right brand positioning and creative strategy, I can influence how people feel about a bigger societal issue, not just a product or service. I was so struck by this. I loved the way you articulated it.
00:32:43
Speaker
I think that more folks in advertising and communications than get credit for kind of feel the same. They're like, I'm trying to be part of the solution here, but I just absolutely loved it.
00:32:54
Speaker
And it relates to like, you know, in Medbury, we're doing like individual leader positioning a lot. We think about this stuff and brand positioning as well, all LinkedIn specific. Could you say a little bit more about this? How did you arrive at this? Is this something you think about all the time? And I just love to hear more around this. I love it.
00:33:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think like everybody has hopes and dreams when they're little, right? When they're like little humans and they're like, what do you want to do with your life? And we all go through these. I want to do this. I want to do that.
00:33:24
Speaker
Again, I think when I hit 30, I really sat down and dug deep into what matters to me. Who am I as a person? And am I just selling stuff to people? And I've already now at that time spent like eight years down a career path.
00:33:36
Speaker
And honestly, i sat down and thought about it, and especially starting Ona and having a couple of years at Ona doing what we do. I realized we sit in the ears of CMOs, VPs of marketing, and I don't have the budget that Nike does or Ulta does. I just don't. Like I could start a company and eventually it would get there. Maybe.
00:33:59
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not saying it would. like a product-based company and ah get there. But what I can do is use the power of advertising to tell the stories that we want to see in the media that ultimately impact everything.
00:34:14
Speaker
And again, i don't care what show you're watching, there's advertising impact behind that. Like you could be watching TV, quite literally Netflix, and there's some sort of an advertising impact behind that because the way for a long time TV got made, right, was through advertisers and sponsorships of not necessarily movies and TVs, but like the ads that run in between. That's what makes everything go is corporations.
00:34:38
Speaker
So if you can sit in the corporations into the ears of CEOs and CMOs and VPs of marketing and marketing directors and they want to tell one story, right, as an example,
00:34:48
Speaker
We're getting tapped for a Hispanic marketing campaign and they want to tell one story. You have the right and the responsibility to reframe that thinking from whatever they're telling you into what you think is going to be the best idea on how to tell that story.
00:35:04
Speaker
And I don't see a better way for us to make an impact with the tools that we currently have. I don't have billions of dollars, but I do have this like voice to the leaders, right?
00:35:15
Speaker
I think that's so interesting. There's this ghostwriter my network who had a conversation with, and he's written for some very famous actors and actresses, like very famous people.
00:35:27
Speaker
And I was asking him about what his process was for kind of attuning to stories. values their story. And he said something that struck with me, which is he's like, I think all good ghostwriters get like a 10% hall pass to kind of find ways to get their own values or messaging out the world.
00:35:49
Speaker
And I thought it was fascinating. i was like, there's a morality there too. Like what responsibility does a ghostwriter have to further and refine the story of the client? regardless of how they feel about it, verse where is it appropriate to slightly Trojan in a message that you think is important for the world at large, where someone's going to have like a greater platform than you would have. And as you're talking about it, I'm thinking, oh, it's super interesting. It's like the same thing, but instead of through an individual, it's like a huge brand budget or brand story.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah. And two things I'll say about that is maybe that person that they're doing their messaging through never thought about it that way. Maybe they feel that way. And maybe there's an inkling of that there.
00:36:30
Speaker
But like this person who's a writer, they might just have a much better way of articulating it, of seeing something in this person and then being like, I can use this person as a vehicle to tell the story because they already stand for this.
00:36:43
Speaker
They're already in this space because you can't. put a square peg in a round hole. Like there's got to be some sort of inkling of what they can do there. So maybe that person never thought about that. And I like to think that the Brands maybe just never had an opportunity or somebody to show them the way.
00:36:59
Speaker
Sometimes there's that. And then you also spoke about Ona's mission and like, how do we stick to the Ona's mission over time? And I think it's like, if you see our work, if you come to our website, if you sit through my pitch and you decide to hire us, this is the other thing that I get sometimes frustrated with brands when I'm like, you know what you were hiring.
00:37:19
Speaker
You did like, this was not like... yeah We weren't meek about it. wasn't like, oh, maybe we'll do whatever you was like, no, this is what we stand for. This is what we think about. And if you sat there through my presentation and you wanted to hire us, then you know what you're getting in bed with.
00:37:34
Speaker
Like at the end of the day, why would you hire us? Go hire somebody else if you want somebody to just check the box. So influencer marketing, but what I was saying earlier, i don't love every brand's running the same playbook.
00:37:49
Speaker
Every single one is coming to us saying, We want a bunch of influencers. Can we do this? And I just, think that is a very, in my opinion, shallow way to approach it.
00:38:04
Speaker
I think it's more about give me the brief and I will tell you what the best way of going about telling this story is. And it could be influencers. That very well could be the case and that could be the right thing.
00:38:18
Speaker
But I think it's like everyone's running the same exact playbook and it's so transparent. The other part that I think is ah part of that, that I think on the other side that we're going to see an influx of is this idea of community.
00:38:35
Speaker
Like how do we do a better job of telling community stories? And again, in my mind, it's not about influencer. It's about influential, right? You work with people who are thought leaders, right? And that is what you want. You want people who are leaders in the space, telling these stories who are influential and maybe their following isn't huge and who cares.
00:38:55
Speaker
It's more about their story's impactful. It's interesting. And your brand can like grab to a feeling and tell that story versus just like paying someone, sending them a product and asking them to post it.
00:39:09
Speaker
Again, i would prefer to do the latter where we get a clear brief about what it is. And then we decide how to fulfill that brief. So when you say community-led stories, do you mean like working with an influencer who's very...
00:39:23
Speaker
Tapped into a small but powerful community. It could be, as an example, the run clubs are all the rage right now. You could go get a run club leader. They might have three or 4,000 followers, maybe not that many on Instagram or something, but they're largely impactful to their community.
00:39:37
Speaker
And then spotlight that community, right? You might be able to find an artist that is a representation of culture of a certain area. And you can use that artist to tell your story.
00:39:49
Speaker
But again, they may not have some crazy social media following, but what they do is true and authentic and represents a culture. or a people and a way to tell that story. Or the HBCU work we did. That's a community. It was a group of majorettes.
00:40:05
Speaker
We didn't spotlight any individual human. We talked about the group or even the Global Air Collective. It's a group of bona fide musicians. that are very impactful to their audience.
00:40:18
Speaker
So it's stuff like that. It's just like really thinking through, you always need humans to tell your stories, or you should always try to use real humans, in my opinion, to tell your story. But the story of those real humans, I think it gets a little bit like what's their following and all this stuff. And sometimes even like the audience might not be a hundred percent, maybe like women's sports athletes over index on male followers.
00:40:40
Speaker
So when brands come to me and say, I want to work with women, like a woman led objective, right? On a product. And you tell me you want to work with a female athlete or a woman athlete.
00:40:52
Speaker
And then you look at the back end and you go 50% of her following is male. That's the case. That's going to be the case for almost all women athletes. Men watch a lot of women's sports.
00:41:04
Speaker
So it just gets to be a little like, what are you trying to do? Is her following more important than who she is as a human and what she brings to the table? Because to me, that's more important is that story.
00:41:15
Speaker
By and far, because you can use media to get it out there and inspire young women or however you want to do it. Inspire adult women, inspire men. i don't care. Just you can use media to get it out there. You don't necessarily always have to rely on their social following.
00:41:30
Speaker
I like that a lot. So like choose the right people and then pull whatever levers you need to to get it out there. I love it. saying so so much. It's like making me think about a lot of things. All right. Very last question. If you had to start over and do something totally different, what would you do?
Reflecting on Founding a Brand
00:41:46
Speaker
I would start a brand. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And i'm I'm trying to as well at the same time, which is really hard. But yeah, I would start a brand. I think like what I love about Ona is that I get to tell multiple stories over multiple brands. And it's very fun and interesting. But I mentioned earlier how taxing it is.
00:42:05
Speaker
yeah and emotionally exhausting and all that stuff. And so I think I'm in a space where I'm debating whether I'm ever going to start a new thing again, because I know the pain ah what it is to start something from nothing.
00:42:18
Speaker
yeah Let's say I sold ONA one day. i don't know. That's not in the plans by any means. If I would actually go out and start something again, but I love the idea of building equity in something over time. Honestly, maybe ONA is that because I think we have built a brand for ourselves.
00:42:34
Speaker
that is starting to get recognized externally. So maybe there's some sort of a pivot off that. Maybe the focus group is a pivot off that and we make it something bigger that's like consumer facing.
00:42:45
Speaker
But I truly feel like, and maybe I'm very wrong. It would be easier. don't know. I mean, service-based work is hard. And I know what mean too, the pain of starting something from scratch. Like sometimes I think about if I ever wrote a book, I mean, I want to write a book. I'm like, all right, what what am I focused on? New things, but yes.
00:43:02
Speaker
And I think that there's like a black hole. That's the first 18 months to two years of starting anything where it's just so brutal. But now when I look back, I'm like, I think I can't even remember how hard it was, if that makes sense. Like you just black out and you're just, it's brutal. And then one day you wake up and there's something malleable to work with. and you're like, okay, okay.
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah. How many times did you cry on like Christmas or Thanksgiving having to work? Like it was, it's awful sometimes. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I feel like I've been lucky in some aspects, but it's, it's really, really hard. I love what you've built and I'm so grateful that you talked to me.
00:43:41
Speaker
This was so fun. I'm congrats on everything with Ona that you've done. It's so, so impressive and so cool. I love the work you guys are doing. Thank you. Really appreciate it. It's so fun to have these conversations, especially with other brand founders and people doing similar things.
00:43:57
Speaker
I just want more people to be able to get involved. I say all the like kind of negative things just so people are aware of what they're starting before they start because everything has implications.
00:44:07
Speaker
But super fun, the work that we get to both do. Totally. And I appreciate you being authentic about it. Like, I feel like sometimes if we're talking to a founder and they're like, everything's great all the time. I'm like, I don't know if this is a great interview, you know, but you're so authentic and I really appreciate that.
00:44:24
Speaker
It's so silly. It's like it is what it is and it's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. I think as long as we all accept it, that it is what it is and deal with it. No perfect situation.
00:44:35
Speaker
Also, it's not perfect situation going to work for someone else either. There's no perfect situation. You just got to deal with the situation you're in and love it for what it is.