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S3 Ep243: Hedonism, and the Pilgrimage to Mountain Dew
76 Plays3 years ago
Join Dave and Jake as they talk about post-scarcity economics, hedonism, mountain dew, belief, the Matrix, and WWII in this week's episode!
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
you
Introductions and Podcast Timing
00:00:29
Speaker
How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Substone. My name is Jake and I'm joined by my co-host is always Dave. How's it going tonight, Dave? It's going. It's good. I feel like the day is kind of just breezed by and I don't know what I actually did.
00:00:46
Speaker
But we're here now, and the time now reads whatever the time is. I don't want to talk to myself. I think we have established in the Canicity of the podcast. I don't know about that, but I think we have said that we record at nighttime. Also, there's that little indicator of the opening and whether we ask if you're having a good night or a good day.
00:01:14
Speaker
which we mix up and lie about. So there's that.
Work-Life Balance and 'War Stories'
00:01:18
Speaker
How's your day of the week been? It's been pretty good, a little bit busy, but I didn't like hate it. It's like, you know, the proper amount of busy for work where it's like you're engaged, but you're not overwhelmed. Yeah. Where you're like, oh, I'm going to take lunch and you're lightly thinking about like the next thing you have. You're not stressed about it. Right. You don't have to do that after lunch. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:01:42
Speaker
I will say those days where I skip a meal, I'm like, I'm fucking killing it today, AKA just killing my will to live. But it feels good to have that, oh yeah, I had to skip lunch. I was pretty busy. We talked about this, the old days of work where it's like, I didn't sleep at all. I was working the whole time. I'm like, this is maybe not a good trait to have. Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
I still talk to it. Talk about that sometimes with people who have joined the company like since then. This is closest we're going to come to talking about work probably. Yeah. But just like the the idea that something did happen in the past, people might have stayed late working on it. They got stuff done together. There was a big project they pushed for whatever. You kind of have almost a war story about it. I call it like in the trenches. Yes. Where like when you're not in the trenches, reminiscing about being in the trenches can be
00:02:36
Speaker
somewhat of a bonding experience for the people that were there in that moment, but they're not worth it. That's, that's, that's the, the story, the life lesson at the end of it. Um, because even though it's, it's okay to bond over those stories, like if it happens, it has to be super, super occasional because you just don't want that to interrupt your work-life balance. And that's more important. Yeah.
00:03:03
Speaker
As I'm now just getting all these PTSD memories of those times. Yeah.
00:03:09
Speaker
Like I remember those and sometimes it's interesting to talk about, I remember that time that we like, we had to work late, like multiple days that week to get that thing done, push that thing out. And then like, I remember other times where it's like, Oh, I had to work on the weekend to finish something, or I had to go in the office and work with hardware or something like that. And I contemplated leaving, right? Like not as like a serious logical contemplation, but this is so,
00:03:34
Speaker
not what I want to be doing right now. Why am I doing this? Which is a natural human reaction, I think. Yeah. We should move to another topic because like I have so many stories I can just drop here, but I don't want to inundate strangers with.
00:03:54
Speaker
so sanitized that the story would kind of be pointless anyways. So we can move past it. Hope you guys are doing well in whatever work or day to day productivity you've got going on.
00:04:07
Speaker
Oh, OK. They're not going to answer. If it pays. I mean, also, if you just have hobbies going on, too, by all means, enjoy those.
Post-Income Fantasy and Productivity
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, there is something I liked about Star Trek is this whole like post income world, which is like fantasy, right? Literally fantasy, but also like so far away from what we have. But it's an interesting thought experiment to be like, what would people do if
00:04:36
Speaker
They had no obligation to work in order to meet their basic needs, have access to internet, have a home, stuff like that. What would you spend your time doing if you didn't have to do any of it? Masturbate, probably. I don't know. I think that's where most people start. He's talking masturbation. But it's an interesting take, because in Star Trek, their interpretation is if you gave people that, they would actually
00:05:07
Speaker
obviously masturbate for a while, but then once that was done, they would pursue things that they want to pursue, be that science or development or construction or whatever the crap. Now, maybe people who don't want to do a certain job at all, those jobs would be neglected, and they might have to be incentivized to go back for that.
00:05:27
Speaker
For the most part, people are pretty advanced in Star Trek, right? They're pretty far up there. And their picture is you would still have people capable of going to school, being a captain, et cetera, et cetera. Well, yeah. As a kid, everybody has that dream of I want to eat ice cream and play games and watch TV and stay up late and just do like pure hedonism is always like a child's dream. It's my dream to a degree as well.
00:05:55
Speaker
I currently am not the most swamped with work stuff and I find myself having a lot of free time and I don't really do too much. So I do feel that urge to want to do something productive or either do something for me or somebody else.
00:06:13
Speaker
not because of the specific work thing, but I've been wanting to try to go to the gym more or maybe do something constructive for people on Discord with DootDoot version 2 or maybe something else. I need to find a project or something because Dooter Dungeons. No. You almost invaded me into it.
00:06:37
Speaker
But yeah, even just doing stuff with people I think is more rewarding than just having that free time and doing nothing with it or just simply absorbing media and nothing else. It's kind of just like, I think a lot of people, at least in US culture, we have this distant, perhaps, depending on where you're at, memory of summertime as a kid. It's like, all right, we're out of school. We can do whatever the heck we want.
00:07:03
Speaker
And it starts off super exciting. And maybe have a good time. And maybe it caps off kind of exciting if you do some event or something towards the end. But you can only play so many hours of Kirby 64 Crystal Shards before your eyes start to bleed. Don't even say that to me. Like, it's a fact. That's a lie.
00:07:20
Speaker
I think I I say this because I remember renting the game and well parents rented the game I don't know if it was blockbuster or some other store that did functionally did the same thing back then we're just like borrow game for a couple days and Like straight up the weekend was just anytime we were not sleeping which was kept to a minimum
00:07:40
Speaker
crystal shards. Like I was like, I have to beat this game and I don't know how long it is. So let's get, it was pretty long. But like, at the point I was trying to make was like, if you do that, if you play a game a ton, if you don't take a break, if you don't do something else, it becomes less enjoyable. Weekends are enjoyable. Well, weekends are generally enjoyable, but they're more enjoyable if the week sucked, as long as you're not exhausted. If you're exhausted, there's not a lot you can do there.
00:08:09
Speaker
But like the difference between work and not work is why not work is more engaging. Yes. Because you know it's like a limited amount of time and you just get to enjoy that without the stress of work. It's a balance and also you need to have things in moderation.
00:08:29
Speaker
Because if all you did is work You would hate your life. Yeah, like literally never stopping not just like having a job And if all you did was not work just play Again, like you wouldn't find Enjoyment out of that after a point right because you're not there's no value in it Right, but again like a lot of people who might not like a more like grueling 9 to 5 find their own value in something like a
00:08:57
Speaker
Oh, a hobby that I can do. Oh, I can monetize that into something. Instead of just, hey, you have to pick from this list of 72 things, one of which is basket weaving for some reason. Or we don't have a major in it, but you can have a class in it. OK.
00:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's... It's... You gotta have the balance. I second what you're saying. You gotta have the balance. It's like a balanced diet. You can't only have protein I'm finding. I need vegetables. I want to poop again. I just want to poop again. Like an earnest 1930s Cary Grant.
00:09:38
Speaker
At the end of a Christmas story, not a Christmas story, a wonderful life. A wonderful life, yeah, yeah. That's what I was going for. I'm glad you got it. And nobody else grew up watching AIMS either. Who is this person? I mean, you don't have to grow up watching it. I think, I don't know. It's been a long time since I had TV, but the last time I saw TV, they had it on every single year. It was like the US Christmas thing.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, that and a Christmas story is a classic that gets played a lot. And then the year without a Santa Claus, I think it's played a lot. Yeah. But yeah, I personally.
00:10:17
Speaker
I subscribe a little bit more to the Star Trek School of Thought, which is, as a whole, if we elevated people to the top of Maslov's hierarchy of basic needs, then people were self-actualized. They didn't have to deal with all this other stuff. We would have a more overall productive society. Some people won't care. Some people just want to chill or whatever. That's fine.
00:10:40
Speaker
But I disagree with people who say the majority of people would just like fall into hedonism and, you know, that be completely unproductive or whatever, which a lot of people just legitimately believe that if you don't make people put people in a situation where they have to work, then they just won't do anything. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the unfortunate thing
00:11:04
Speaker
is that is like a really weirdly pessimistic statement coming from people and I consider myself to be who doesn't want to be considered pessimist calls themselves a realist. Listen, not being a wet blanket, just how it is. Yes. Yeah. But it's very much the assumption of like, hey, I look at a lot of people and I see them just trying to
00:11:29
Speaker
be happy in effect, but they're not taking it as that. It's like people are trying to like juggle all of their needs and wants at once because they are not elevated to that degree. They have shit they have to deal with, they have burdens in their life or they're underprivileged and that's like another thing on top of it. And people are just trying to get by.
00:11:51
Speaker
But imagine if you gave people the tools to succeed and everybody was on that same playing field and it wasn't even a field. It wasn't even playing field. It was just a field. People could just go there and hang out, right? How long does that mean? I don't know the theme song for that. No one does. I'm like, oh, I'm going to look out in the distance like a home run was just hit. Maybe the audience will pick up on my visual cues. Yeah.
00:12:17
Speaker
No, I think that's, that's where it's at. Like when I was in, um, community college and kind of just like working part time and stuff, and I'm, I'm not, I've never been like in a disadvantage state in my life. There was a point when I was on food stamps, uh, in college and I was great, very grateful for that. And I'm going to pay back into it forever because how did they taste? They were a little like gummy, but you know, it's all right. Um, got them. Yeah. Uh,
00:12:43
Speaker
But I was glad that those resources existed. But I remember all the way back then, you get a paycheck, and it's like, OK, should I fill up the gas tank? This is my go-to example between people that have and have not. It's like, do I fill up the gas tank with the money that I have right now, or should I not completely do that? That's absurd to people who have any amount of wealth or financial stability to even think about. Why would you not fill up the gas tank?
00:13:12
Speaker
People talk about shoes, but this is the one I think about even more. And I'm so far removed from
Diet Drinks and Childhood Snacks
00:13:20
Speaker
that now, right? It's like, oh, what do you feel like eating? Not what would be the financially safest thing to you right now. And if you can like elevate people above that, reduce that stress, they can be like so much more productive in all kinds of different ways. Better for kids, better for everything. And in all the scenarios, Jake is still eating Taco Bell.
00:13:39
Speaker
It's financially sound. It's what I want to eat. Although, depending on what you get at Taco Bell, it might not be financially sound. You can definitely spend more money there if you stray too far from the dollar menu. Value menu, I think they call it now, because inflation.
00:13:59
Speaker
I haven't been there in so long. So I imagine like certain things. I imagine it's like the same, the exact same menu that it has been. But I'm sure half of it has at least changed by now. Yeah. I mean, it's basically the same food for the most part. They just sometimes they have nacho fries. Sometimes they don't. But I think the prices have overall increased. They did add brisk passion fruit tea. But no brisket, I think. But yeah, the brisk passion fruit tea is pretty good.
00:14:29
Speaker
I will get that if they don't have Baja Blast Zero. But how is Baja Blast Zero? I really like it. But yeah, I mean, it really is dependent on your where you fall on the fence of non sugary fountain drinks, because it's I think it's excellent among the diet offerings that don't have sugar. But I'm a weird sweetener, though, I guess is the question. It doesn't to me. I like the taste of it.
00:14:58
Speaker
Hmm. Um, but maybe next time I don't talk about, I'll try it out. I think I would put it up there with Coke zero for like, whoa, hold up now. They're kind of, they're kind of making it work. Coke zero has had years of refinement of like 37 different diet Coke recipes until they're like Coke zero. And people be like, all right. Yeah.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, and Coke Zero is like their flagship brand. I'm pretty sure Pepsi owns Mountain Dew. I'm like 95% sure. Yes, yes, yes. For some reason, Pepsi put all of that R&D into this obscure Taco Bell Mountain Dew flavor. But I don't know. Speaking of Mountain Dew, and this is, again, where I like lost my faith in the world.
00:15:44
Speaker
Cause like the more I see things that are like commercials or like marketing, I'm like, dear God, it's so phony and over the top. Like how could anybody be interested or hooked by this one thing, right? And then I was at the store and they had Mountain Dew Black, but it's the energy drink version where it has like a like Mountain Dew startup or something. It has like a hundred and eight milligrams of caffeine.
00:16:07
Speaker
But it's, again, limited flavor, right? But I remember when Mountain Dew Black came out, again, probably as something related to Taco Bell or whatnot, they were like, hey, we're only doing this once. Mountain Dew Pitch Black, I think it was. Darker than black. Darker yet darker still. Let me go to the Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew the void. And then I'll check this out. But even when that came out, they were like, hey, limited time. Well, you know, not coming back. And they did the same thing with Live Wire.
00:16:35
Speaker
You'll be back. I 100% believe you'll be back. You're going to hold it off to build up interest so that when it comes back again, you'll be like, oh my god, it's back. They just didn't release this here for three years. It didn't go anywhere, right? Yeah. Do you want to hear some of the lore on this? Please. From the Mountain Dew wiki, which is an actual thing, by the way. So Mountain Dew Black Label, if that's what you're talking about. It's got the title, Deeper Darker Dew.
00:17:05
Speaker
It was apparently pre-released in 2015 on college campuses and universities, and then later officially released in March 2016. But people say it has a taste that's reminiscent of dark berry or pitch black, which was the other one you referenced.
00:17:20
Speaker
So I think pitch black is what it was. I'm going to have to check the can. It's my fridge. It's too far though. But black label looks like something else. Like they're trying to market a whiskey, but it's Mountain Dew flavored. A fine vintage of Mountain Dew.
00:17:36
Speaker
Which, if you didn't know what the drink was, you're like, mountain too. You're like, oh, that must be a very fancy water brand, even fancier than Evian. And you're like, oh, it's gamer water. It's soda. Yeah. Gamer water sounds pretty bad. I don't call it soda. Well, listen, Bell Delphine ruined it for everybody. We could have called it gamer water before that.
00:18:01
Speaker
I will say though, again, reminiscing back to summer or harkening back, I remember fondly having so much Mountain Dew Code Red. And of course, yes, like Cool Ranch Doritos or something like that. Right.
00:18:17
Speaker
That just being like, Ooh, that was like the good stuff. Yeah. It was the tough decision. Do you get the, the cooler ranch or the nacho cheese? It's like, are you the cooler ranch kind of guy or the nacho cheese kind of guy? These are both Doritos products. They all, they just have your business. It's not even a question. They don't care. But I mean, which, which side do you stand on, Jake? Uh, so I used to be cooler ranch.
00:18:41
Speaker
When I was younger, uh, in my older years, uh, I've leaned more towards nacho cheese. I think it's a more mature flavor. I was going to say the opposite. Okay. Well, I started that. No one agrees. Honestly, I just like sunships. I don't know. I mean, not wall or subway. I've done that to me, I think.
00:19:04
Speaker
Yeah. But you had a bunch of Mountain Dew back in the day, so you're completely sterile now. That's that's what I'm here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I stopped drinking it because my doctor said there might be a chance for you to have kids one day and I'm like, well, so I started drinking Mountain Dew again. So not about it. Get that down to zero. This is the men part of min max. Men. Oh, sperm count. Yes, yes.
00:19:31
Speaker
I imagine some are like the carbonation just doesn't get processed through your system. It somehow gets into wherever that's stored. Don't ask me. And it's just like killing them like what's going on. It's the stupidest thing. But man, if that didn't get passed around when I was a kid. Oh, well, yeah, you know Mountain Dew. Yeah. Any middle school or high school theory that you heard, you're like, that sounds bullshit.
00:19:55
Speaker
But I am pretty young and don't know too much about the world, so maybe? And then you hold on to that memory for like 10 years. And then you bring it up at like a party or social gathering, like, oh, I heard that.
00:20:06
Speaker
Sloths reproduce anally and you're like what who told you that? You're like I heard of the redo thing The one that was the one that got me I even still remember being corrected was like if you crack your knuckles, you know do a little knock you crack which I'm not gonna get on the audio right here, but If you crack your knuckles, it makes you more likely to get arthritis. Yep heard that and I remember I I
00:20:32
Speaker
Mentioned that at some point and like a gathering when my cousins were there was like a family gathering or something and one of my cousins She was like no That's been debugged. I was like, oh But that's the thing except this is the new truth It's literally a seed that's planted and you don't have enough of a reason to question it and it sits in festers I shouldn't say investors like you don't dwell on it But it sits there for so long until someone just says that is incorrect and you're like, oh, okay, right? Yeah
00:21:02
Speaker
And I also accept this with 100% authority, right? So belief is a stack is what we're seeing. But at least in smart now, and you know, we'll never make
Christianity, Faith, and Morality
00:21:23
Speaker
poor decisions or have an error in judgment because I'm so, I'm so tweaked out now, so perfected. We've got it down. Hope to be. All right. Well, I guess we should get to some of those pre-prepared topics that we had for this, uh, this talkcast episode. So yeah. What did you have in mind? What have you been reading recently? Well,
00:21:50
Speaker
Just for more of an anecdote, I don't really want to go into it. But I did receive a piece of mail, which got forwarded from my old address. So they really wanted me to get it apparently. But it's a Christian magazine. And the front cover is very much you could have put this in like the original Dark Souls. I would say that it fit. It's like this giant burning open doorway or just very tall fire that exceeds
00:22:19
Speaker
what a fire would normally burn out, burn at without like pouring two gallons of kerosene directly on top of it. And then like a man sitting in front of it. Yes.
00:22:30
Speaker
And a man sitting in front of it with the text, will you go to hell? So that, again, caught my interest, of course, because I am very curious whether or not I will go to hell. They're challenging you. Are you good enough to make it? Oh, shit. I got to commit some more murder. This reminds me of the, it's passed around a lot. And I'm sure a lot of people have seen it at this point. But the Satan Twitter account, which is also just tag S,
00:22:57
Speaker
the number eight and then in. And it's just like as a reminder, Jesus died for your sin. So if you don't get out there and said he's died for nothing. And I mean, a lot of religions might disagree with that kind of approach to theology. Christianity for sure does. But it's hilarious. I I'm going to try not go too deep into religion. But I remember that being a very fine sticking point for me when I was
00:23:25
Speaker
converting out of Christianity to be like, fuck this, doesn't make sense to me. Because like I would meet with a counselor, like somebody at the church like once a week as an alternative for like being apart with like the rest of the group like Sunday school and church. They're like, why don't you believe? You know, doing their whole thing. Yeah. But one of my points that concerned me was
00:23:48
Speaker
If you're like, once you've accepted Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior, right? That is the one thing where it's like you're going to heaven, right? He absolves all your past sins. Like you can still technically sin afterwards and you're good. Like you're locked in at that one point. So I was like, if that's true, what is preventing any of this?
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, it really depends on which, uh, which branching theology, right? Catholicism is a little less big on that. And they're more like, Hey, you need, we gotta keep covering this. You gotta, you gotta take care of this. Right. I don't hate that actually. Cause like,
00:24:27
Speaker
Like let's say it was between you and me, right? And if I did something shitty to you, I would feel like I should need to apologize for it before we can like move on, not just ignore it entirely and vice versa. So I think that makes sense as of an approach if you have like an active relationship. Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
I mean, it's kind of, I had to look it up, just verify it, but there's biblical precedent for this even, right? I have it right here. But if he's caught, this is Proverbs 6.31, he must pay back seven times what he stole, even if he has to sell everything in his house. Kind of the idea that there should be recompense for the wrong that you deal.
00:25:07
Speaker
Modern Christianity, certain branches don't take that approach as much and they lean more into the faith and the coverage of sin with no qualifications on top of it. It's just one and done to suggest anything else diminishes the importance of that coverage, right? You're saying like, oh, it's less powerful because
00:25:33
Speaker
You have to, what's the term for it in Catholicism for like, uh, it's like little payments or things you have to do. It's not reparations, but there's, there's time that you pay. Yeah. It's like, it's like, it's a word like atonement. I can't remember the word, but atonement is would be the, the general term for it. Um, but, uh, yeah.
00:25:56
Speaker
It really is a kind of a separate idea to think about it. And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that are like, hey, now that I'm good, it's literally there's a term in this in church. It's called fire insurance. Right. It's like, oh, well, once you're good, once you have fire insurance, why does it matter how else you live your life? Right. Well, you're not going to hell. I've already failed the challenge that Dave was issued in his magazine he received.
00:26:23
Speaker
And just to close the loop on the thing, I know the actual response to my question is if you truly believed in how Jesus Christ in your heart, et cetera, like if you had the mindset of I am a Christian, you would not want to behave that way. Yeah, it would change you within and without. Yeah. But I mean, that's naive. Well, yeah, it's not because it's not like you drink a magic potion. But I'm the perfect person now. That's not how that works. Yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah. People should not have the desire to do that. Theoretically. Yeah. But even then, cause I've heard that too, but even that is like, it's naive cause you're like, people don't fundamentally change that quickly. Right. Like people, I believe people can be better and they can do better. That's my positive outlook on life. Right. But if people are struggling with something, if they've made some mistakes and they're likely to remake those mistakes or dealing with addiction or something like that.
00:27:21
Speaker
It's very diminishing to say like, oh, no, we hit, we hit, we flip the bullying switch. You're, you're good now. Like, don't worry about that. That's taken care of. You're good. You won't do that anymore. I was going to make a joke until you threw an addiction. I'm like, oh, it's too serious to make that joke. I want to circle back to it when you're like, hey, if you ever been like struggling with something or I forget what else you said, I'll rewind it back. But I was like, oh, you mean like when I side beat a ledge? The joke is so perfect. Yeah.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. We periodically have these moments where we dive back into a discussion of religion and are constantly reminded that this was the alternative, right? We had like 99% vote for a religion-based podcast and 100% vote for the, this isn't how ratios work, but for the video game podcast.
00:28:15
Speaker
Um, we, we held two separate votes. Apparently one person just didn't attend the first one. Um, uh, respondents, 99 respondents said they want a religion podcast and a hundred said video games. So that's what we ended on. Very tight race. Race is actually what I call it. Um, it's, it's such an easy rabbit hole to go down because it's such a,
00:28:41
Speaker
deep, deep, deep topic that we both have some intimate intimacy with. I want to say intimacy with in that regard. We're not Catholic, it's fine. But it is like a very core part of us because it impacted however many years of our childhood. Like probably like 16 years for me. And that's roughly half my life now. So it's 18 for me before I moved.
00:29:08
Speaker
In the same way, I'll bring up Lincoln Park occasionally because I grew up with them and it's a core part of who I am now. Yeah, you're crawling in your skin.
00:29:17
Speaker
These wounds, they will not heal. I should see a doctor. But, yeah, now it's it's it's definitely you get people talking about a game that they like, and it's easy to just kind of like gush about it. Right. Dark Souls, too. Great game. But like this is just this is just bait for Dave. I'm getting the producer cut the mic.
00:29:43
Speaker
Um, but like he said, it's the same for religion. Cause like, if something is fundamental to your view of the world and morality and eternity and all of that for an extended period of your time of your life, like how can that be unimportant? Even if you distance yourself from it. Um, even if you disagree with it, even if your views fundamentally change, it's part of you.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah, I really like Pat and Oswald stand a bit about how he thinks religion got invented. I was basically so like a dweeby people didn't get beaten up and taken advantage of. Oh, yeah. So you have like a very strong person like like caveman era type stuff, like somebody who's just stronger and can like kick your ass, right? They can make the decisions because otherwise they will use violence. Right. Simple as that. The strong wins, the strong leads.
00:30:38
Speaker
And so the guy had to be like, no, no, no, don't beat me up because there's a man in the sky would be very mad if you did. And if he gets mad, you bad things are going to happen to you after you die. And then people get on board with this ideology of because again, like you have no concept of time initially.
00:30:56
Speaker
Or how long your lifespan is, let alone the concept of eternity. And you're like, huh? So it's such a, not thalassophobia, it's a fear of deep water. What's a megalophobia? Like a fear of margin. Yeah. I mean, certain Mega Man games, yes. Technically, it wasn't called Mega Man. It's called Mighty No. 9.
00:31:21
Speaker
Ooh, dark times. That's probably even more PTSD. Sorry, yeah. This is emotional damage to the podcast. I think it's megalophobia, which is like a fear of large things. It's like skyscrapers. Anything you're like, that's too big to physically comprehend and deal with and manage.
00:31:38
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's how they get you. Yeah, and you're correct. That is the phobia. I looked it up. I actually did the fact checking. Also, put in the edit of... Oh, do I have the edit? Oh, geez. I'm going to give you the edit just so you can put in Megalovania for my one joke.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, I agree, I agree with you. That's the fundamental of most religions, right? Maybe not all of them. But you know, from a lot of the big traditional ones is regardless of how powerful you are, there's something more powerful than you. Whatever you comprehend, there's something beyond your comprehension. If you can like get people to accept those two things, you can feed them anything.
00:32:22
Speaker
Spoken like a true DM. We get players involved in this story. And the players are the heroes in this story. With religion, that's dangerous. Yeah, but it's really cool when it comes in regards to fantasy. Again, one of the reasons I love Elden Ring
00:32:45
Speaker
I put in some audio of me blowing from soft here. I'm not making all these other. Nobody ever makes the edits when we say, hey, do this edit. Except for the ones we say, hey, cut this out. And then you don't even hear that part. We only leave in the, hey, cut this out. But we just have just a white noise for two minutes. But it's the grandeur in scale of so much that's in the world.
00:33:13
Speaker
Like when they have like, hey, here's a part of a ruined building from like a thousand years. It's like a giant fucking chunk of building or dear God, like what was the civilization before I got here? Yeah. Or even like the dungeons you go into like fucking gigantic or when you're in fair Missoula and you're going up to this building, I looked at the building like I never looked at this closely, but there actually is a good amount of detail in here. It's this giant detailed structured thing. Yeah. And I'm in all of it to a degree, because again, like I'm a little
00:33:42
Speaker
let's say like a six foot character who's fighting like gods and demons and other shit. And I'm like, man, this is really cool as a concept. Yeah, scale suits fantasy. Scale is awesome. And fantasy is perfect for that to have this kind of massive expansion. Because that's, I mean, there are different things that feed into a sense of wonder. And that was one of the biggest ones, right? Like your understanding of the world is through a small box. And here is the great beyond.
00:34:12
Speaker
everything outside of your box. And fantasy is really capable of that because you don't know what's at the top of the tree, right? Like you're working your way up these levels and you don't know what the next step is going to be. That's a sign that a game is really engaging. If it gets you curious and asking questions and you want to see what the next thing is, instead of just, you know, kind of autopiloting with a controller or something.
00:34:33
Speaker
PS spoiler, it's leaves. But yeah, it's like in the same way that I initially got hooked into the matrix, right? That was probably one of my first experiences of hearing
00:34:48
Speaker
Well, obviously Plato's allegory of the cave, but in a more broad sense, just the box opening up. Yeah. Because like they're like, hey, here's your defined thing, right? You're like, OK, that makes sense. And they're like, PS, that's only a very small part of it. You're like, what the fuck? And it just it blows out. So I like when stories have those twists and I wasn't expecting it. It's just it's a cool thing. Yeah.
00:35:15
Speaker
It's a way to get people. Yeah. It's a good one too. I especially, I really liked the example of the matrix because matrix opener is here's everything you're familiar with. It was just a guy going to work. He's tired. He's got, you know, whatever. Maybe he's, he's, he's a hacker or something like that. And then that way he's a little different than you and me. But, um, in a lot of ways he's very relatable. Okay. If we continued with a story like this, I would get bored. Right. But.
00:35:44
Speaker
Now we zoom back. Here's the fantasy element. I'm already relating with his character because we had those moments and I can understand him as an outsider in this position because I'm an outsider in this position, but the world is big and it is vast and it is here. Here there be monsters, right? The world is very dark. That's the end of that topic. Probably. I don't know. I can't think of anything else to add to it. Quick question. Sure.
00:36:13
Speaker
I understand the lore of The Matrix, but why did they turn humans into batteries versus clearing up that shit in the sky? If they're a very advanced AI and series of computers, why did they not just clear up the shit with the clouds covering the sun? Yeah. Even the explanation that's provided doesn't really make sense because it's like,
00:36:42
Speaker
Are people good batteries? Like if you gave them nutrition, their body process spends a lot of time not just generating energy that you can harvest in the form of like externalized heat. So does that really make any sense? No, like not really, like literally plants would probably be better. But to the point of clearing the sky, I don't think it's ever touched on. You could kind of maybe make a justification that like the nuclear winter is so harsh that they just don't have
00:37:11
Speaker
the means to clear the atmosphere in such a way that it would matter. Right. Even if they filled a gap, they made a gap in this guy. What are they going to do? Have fans constantly blowing out like massively taking all this energy to keep it from floating back in. How high up would those fans have to blow, et cetera, et cetera. Um, in the fantasy, I guess it made sense to turn people into batteries, but I don't know. I apologize to any listeners, but I have to say in the fan to see,
00:37:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's been great being on. Thank you for having me. Yep. If you were interested in being a co-host. Yeah. That's good, though. I think that's a good movie. Yeah, it was a good movie. We actually, we've hit Star Trek and The Matrix so far, for examples, I think. We're going to have what we're talking about. What are we talking about? The Star Wars next. Yeah.
00:38:04
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, those are great formative things. The Matrix is old now. Yeah, it's so old they made a fourth one and I'm mad about it and I haven't even seen it. I also have not seen it. I don't even... Was it reviewed well? I have no idea. It was one of those flash in the pan things where I'm like, I'm mad that this thing's gonna come out. And then it came out and I didn't really hear anything about it and it just disappeared. I was like, okay. Yeah. I am kind of curious to see it though.
Violence in Media and Historical Portrayals
00:38:32
Speaker
Cause like maybe they do continue it well. Maybe they really shit the bed. I don't think it's going to scar my opinion of like the older movies I grew up with, but I'm kind of curious to see the continuation of it. That's fair. I would, I would probably watch it as like, um, an evening or like weekend movie, not as like this high intensity theater experience of like, okay, this is a focused watching go into it with like the expectation, Hey,
00:39:00
Speaker
Like you watch it with friends over and like you'd have chips. Like there'd be conversation going on during the movie. It's at points. I think so. That's the kind of movie it is. I was going to say, the Matrix is actually so old that if I search for Matrix release date and it showed me Matrix Revolutions in 2003, it does also save you both the Matrix in 1991 or 1999, 1991. I was like, one is when I came out. No.
00:39:30
Speaker
I think we were, uh, we were eight years old when the matrix came out first. Yeah. Very, that's what I first watched at eight years old. Yeah. Very advanced. Uh, my parents, I don't think would have been big on the matrix. That came out. I will say like my parents were also conservative to degree, not as much as yours from the stories I've heard, but I'll always remember one of the movies I watched definitely probably too young.
00:39:59
Speaker
It must've been like 13, 14. And for whatever reason, like we got boondocks saints. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. From blockbuster and like, like it's an action movie. I didn't know what it was, but like I watched it. I think with my mom, I was like, this movie is really good. And she was probably like, close your eyes for some of these parts.
00:40:21
Speaker
But then when my dad came home, I'm like, damn, we've got to watch this movie. It's really good. And we watch Boondock Saints again. And I was like, why'd they let me watch that? Looking back, I'm like, no, that wasn't a movie for a young me. Yeah, no, that movie has a lot in it. I think I also saw it. I don't remember if it was. It definitely wasn't with my parents, but it was probably like a family's house or something like that, like a relative's house or something.
00:40:45
Speaker
That movie did have a lot in it, though. My story, if I'm also to relate, is when I was young, I could not stand violence. As many children, actually, as it turns out, cannot, which is the reason that when movies are rated like, hey, this has a bunch of violence, don't let kids watch it. It's because the kids might not have a great time if they watch it.
00:41:08
Speaker
Um, but I was particularly susceptible to violence and my family was watching Braveheart, which is actually a very violent movie.
00:41:24
Speaker
and No, no, it was Braveheart. What's the one? It has Mel Gibson. Patriot? Patriot. That's what it was. As soon as you said Braveheart, I'm like, why am I thinking of the Patriot? It's the Patriot. Yeah. Yeah. Patriot, which was a very violent movie. There's a lot of violent scenes and there's a scene where a man is decapitated by cannon. And I just could not take it. I just like I had to leave the room and like cry or whatever I did and
00:41:50
Speaker
I just could not understand how my parents who were like so against all of these other things you had no problem with violence and Like I still actually don't really get it But that's kind of an American thing where it's just like nudity all this stuff. Oh, that's terrible Don't let it's in a movie though. Don't let someone see a boob Like that that would ruin them. It lets us Barbara Streisand's boob It's in a movie. It's fine
00:42:20
Speaker
But no, they wouldn't. If there was an S in a rating somewhere, they would not accept that for a game or whatever. But am I saying S in a rating? It actually says sexual content or something like that. Or an S on the TV. Remember the TV ratings where it's like Y or S or D or V? It would give you a breakdown of what the content would be for the show.
00:42:43
Speaker
No, no drugs and violence and sexual content. Oh, yeah, OK. Yeah, it's it's been a very long time, but like I remember watching Law and Order and like a lot of that would come up. Mm hmm. Yeah, but they saw an S up there and they're like, I don't know if we can watch this. Violence is absolutely fine. The Patriot literally rated by. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that got me in the Patriot is when they they burned the chapel. That made me sad. Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, that movie was meant to just be like. There's so many like kick the dog moments. Yes. To make you root for the protagonist. Like the British general, captain, colonel, whatever the fuck he was, lieutenant. He was Mr. British. Yeah. Colonel Mustard. They made him such an over the top asshole. We're like, oh, this guy is evil to his core. Yes. Oh, I want the Americans to win in Mel Gibson.
00:43:42
Speaker
I don't think that's fine for the movie that they were going for. Like you root for the hero, demonize the villains. Um, things will work out in the end, except a lot of people die. It is very much like it is so tilted to an American audience though, right? Like I don't know if maybe it would be created that way. I'm not sure, but I recall I was seeing a video on, um,
00:44:06
Speaker
It was one of the many, many, many video essays on YouTube where they break down like a scene. Everyone does it. I've seen it. I'm so close to doing it at this point. But like they're talking about a scene in a movie where the original is based on a book and they're supposed to be an American tourist who is inadvertently shot.
00:44:24
Speaker
a case of mistaken identity and a tourist is shot. And they literally changed the scene so that the person wasn't shot. They did some smart things around there or whatever, but the shot was not taken, the person did not die because they did not want to offend the American audience. And my brain goes back to thinking about that when we're talking about the Patriot, where it's like the British
00:44:47
Speaker
Those guys were straight up comic book evil. I don't know if you've seen any American movie where Americans are battling another group of people. Yes. But we make the Americans look pretty good. Everyone else look pretty shitty. I don't know if you remember the 90s. But it was so comically over the top of like.
00:45:09
Speaker
I mean, if you go back even further, it's like, oh, who's the villain of this? Just get it. Just wipe out the Russian accent, man. Just. Yes. Yeah. Have you ever watched a kung fu movie? That's where they demonize white people. Oh, that's fair. Because again, it's always like over the top. It's like somebody who's being like blatantly racist and like, hey, karate is awesome. P.S., don't ask where I got the karate from. And yeah, you guys are shit and you're
00:45:39
Speaker
the shorter word for Japanese people or something else. Like it was always, again, like a very over the top villain where you're like, I hate this person again because they're just being a cunt. And that's it. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's interesting to think about those those portrayals and whatnot. I was talking with them. This is kind of just tangentially related, but back to video games for a brief brief moment. Like how how ingrained and attached
00:46:09
Speaker
we were to World War II. Technically, that is outside of games also, right? Like the History Channel existed because of World War II, like forever. But I was like, yeah, Call of Duty was in World War II, I think, for like three games before it left with Modern Warfare and then went back later with one of the spinoffs.
00:46:33
Speaker
No, well, you don't understand what the cool thing about the panther tank is that yeah Everybody has a dad who like watches the history channel way too much like if I was in the army I'm like you wouldn't be uh-huh. Yeah, but it is weird how it's so
00:46:50
Speaker
like, looked fondly. In the same way, like, hey, I live in Pennsylvania, right? I've been to Philadelphia, right? But anytime, like, Philly wins, anybody who's in Pennsylvania is like, oh, that's us. So I think a lot of Americans look at World War II that way, where it's like, we beat you guys. And they're like, who are you talking to?
00:47:17
Speaker
I mean, we still have that even with like British people and like the Boston Tea Party, like that still comes up as it's very, very mild at this point, but it still comes up as like a referential thing. Right. There's still just a little bit peeved that all of that tea went to waste. Yeah. Yeah. But but now I drink tea and who's the fool? Yeah, right. Yeah. I am now peeved that the tea went to waste, but
00:47:43
Speaker
I think world war two, one of the big parts of it going, or we're just assuming the role of the history channel here. And the reason it's so popular in media and games is because it's like.
00:47:54
Speaker
It's not the good war because terrible things happened, obviously, right? But it's one where it's like, hey, did we win? Checkbox. Were we fighting people that can still be considered evil? Checkbox. OK, good enough. Like we can reproduce this in popular media without aging.
00:48:16
Speaker
all the way out. Vietnam? Maybe a third checkbox. Were we the good guys? It's kind of hard to make a spin on some of the other conflicts compared to that. Well, yeah, again, it's very easy to put Nazis as a villain because
00:48:40
Speaker
Not everybody, but most people aren't fond of Nazis. It's true. Don't want to believe it, but it's true. So that will always be an easy villain or you can do an alternate history version where it's not the Germans, Wink. It's Cobra Commander and that group. Yeah. Cobra.
00:49:07
Speaker
Or you just do something else like that where it's, do they have an accent? Do they seem shifting evil? Do they carry guns? Ah, yes, it's the villains. Like even to the extent of like, I know this goes back to old comics, but like the newer movies for Marvel and there's been so many Marvel.
00:49:26
Speaker
I don't know the Marvel movies that happen anymore. There's like 30,000 of them every year, right? It's impossible to keep up, but like Hydra is a villain as a villain because Nazis, right? Like they don't need more depth than that. Their fashion sounds like that's all that's all you have to do. It's like there's a common phrase around the compound start with hail. Mm hmm.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah, unless someone's calling out inclement weather, be on the lookout, right? No, no, no, there's a monster. It's attacking the compound. It's a hail Hydra. It has multiple heads and it's hitting chunks of ice at us. No. Anyways, next topic.
00:50:20
Speaker
I didn't think of a good segue from Nazis. That's fair. Based off of the fact that that was what the History Channel stayed on and how Call of Duty cannot escape it, neither can they. Doesn't the History Channel also do ancient aliens now? I don't know. Didn't they pick that up or something? I don't really watch. I don't have a TV. But I would believe it. Do you remember the meme of that guy who'd always have his hands out explaining his hair is all crazy? Aliens.
00:50:49
Speaker
That was great. It was a great, great moment. But like, how do they move the heads on Easter Island? And then you watch a video of people moving it. It's not easy because it's fucking gigantic, but like people figured out ways to do stuff before modern conveniences, ways to pull, ways to reduce friction. All right. We can make the rest of this work. You probably don't have to fall back to literally magic or aliens at this point.
00:51:15
Speaker
Again, I don't know why anybody, I still think it stems back to a belief of wanting to believe there's more, like wanting to believe that you're a small part in something greater, or to think that you found information other people don't have yet.
00:51:29
Speaker
It's like I have found the treasure. I found the truth about the grays. That's not a slur. That's just a term for a type of alien. Yeah, I've played army men. I understand the gray. Well, no, the tans I thought were the enemy. Well, there's OK. So an army men lore.
00:51:49
Speaker
The greens are good. There's a couple different colors. Greens are the good guys, usually represented by Sarge. Sarge, Vicky, also I think is his daughter. A couple other people you'll throw in there. There's like a Colonel, I can't remember his name though. General Plastro is the leader of the tan.
00:52:07
Speaker
Uh, who is most obviously, uh, I think he's actually Castro. Like I think every time he's depicted, he's got a cigar. I think plaster was Castro. And I just put that together. I haven't thought about this one in a while. Um, but yeah, they're the antagonists. Um, blue is spies, uh, for both sides, actually. Um, most commonly they're kind of just seen as a sort of like neutral faction. You could buy them.
00:52:35
Speaker
Essentially, you're like, you pay them off, right? It's like, oh yeah, get the blues to get the intel or something like that. Buy spy with my little eye. I don't think purple really had much of a role. I think it was just like a multiplayer type faction. Purple wasn't big. And then gray was more represented in the early games for army men. They kind of, they kind of fell off a little bit, but I think initially they were like a third faction and then it's just like probably died to tan or something.
00:53:06
Speaker
Anyways, that's the army men lore.
Nostalgia in Gaming
00:53:08
Speaker
There's also space people. Army men toys in space to establish that in the canon. Okay. I didn't realize I went to army men in space as well. Yeah, they were kind of like the one before Sarge's Heroes or Sarge's Heroes and that was it. Yeah.
00:53:24
Speaker
They had a bunch of different types of games. Some of them are higher effort and some of them are lower effort. The ones I played the most were like top-down isometric games, PC games. I was on even one, two, three, which was toys in space. I think a lot more people played the higher effort like chopper attack type games or Sargis Heroes.
00:53:48
Speaker
I got triggered for a memory. I can't remember the specific name of it. My brain is jumping to something like desktop defender, which doesn't sound quite right. But essentially it was like this application that you would run. It would take a screenshot of your current desktop. And that was like the background for the game. And then like little ants would like crawl across the screen. And then you had a way to kill them with like hitting with a hammer and then like your screen would crack.
00:54:15
Speaker
a little bit or you could get out of flamethrower. It was basically like destroyed pixels in the background per the weapon selected. That's really cool, actually. It was so entertaining as a kid, and I can't remember what it was, but it was definitely like Windows 95 era. Yeah. But it was it was new and cool to me because I was sure I'd be like, Mom, something's wrong with the computer. Yeah, I could see someone who doesn't really understand computers like losing their mind in reaction to this going on.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yeah, especially if it's like a CRT or something. It's like, is there an ant in the screen, actually, what I'm looking at here? What's this big box for ants? Can't be for electronics, so it must be much more advanced. Windows NT. Windows Ants. Yeah. Yeah. Or Windows, no thanks.
Tech Frustrations and Preferences
00:55:10
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah, I haven't switched off of Windows yet. That's.
00:55:14
Speaker
Never going to happen. Life's too short. Yeah. Although I did when I loaded stuff up for the start recording the podcast tonight on the laptop. It's like, hey, full screen thing. And I was like, what does this mean? But obviously it's just being hijacked by Microsoft again. And it's like, do you want to update?
00:55:35
Speaker
to Windows 11. And I was frantically searching for the no button in all of the UI, listing all the features and things. And it's just later or no thanks or something like that. It starts a low commitment decline. Remind me later or something. And then there's another one, are you sure? You're eligible for a free upgrade and all this other stuff. And cars extended warranty. They give you more and more crazy options to decline.
00:56:02
Speaker
Uh, my, my cat's pregnant. My house is on fire. Oh, I'm not feeling well today. Let's, let's reschedule. Select a reason. It's like a radial, uh, series of radio buttons. You're just like, all right, my computer is on fire. Not right now. I have a big case coming up. Not right now.
00:56:26
Speaker
It's like you're not a Luddite until you have to update something. And then you're like, they've changed it and I hate it. Yes. I remember being so used to Windows Media Player and the visualizers and the custom Windows Media Player skins that I would have.
00:56:43
Speaker
I would listen to music in the coolest way possible. This is before audio surf came out and I was on top of the world. And then they took that away. And now music is boring and uninteresting to me. I definitely don't use windows media player anymore, but that's cause I'm just listening to Spotify. So yeah, Spotify, um, VLC, if I really had to pick a localized player, eh,
00:57:10
Speaker
Yeah, which just doesn't, doesn't matter as much. I think that this is, you're talking about switching versions of windows though. And I recall.
00:57:17
Speaker
The old magics, um, like the old days of being on XP and people are like, really? Vista? Like I'm freaking not going to Vista and a lot of people didn't. And then it's like, windows seven. It's like, eh, it seems better. I guess I'll go to windows seven. And then in the background, it was just like, it was Vista like the entire time, but they just made it like look a little bit better and be a little bit more performant. And.
00:57:45
Speaker
enough time had passed that people started to get, maybe subconsciously they were realizing that this aversion to Vista was actually not reasonable anymore and this gave them an out. They're just like, okay, there's that. So that's what's gonna happen. Windows 11 will come out and they'll be like, you have to swap to it. 10 is gonna be insecure or we're not gonna support it anymore. We ourselves are making viruses to tear it down at this point. I'm like, yeah, yeah, but just like,
00:58:11
Speaker
Chip 12. I remember when they were taking down Internet Explorer version six and having done some like web development and like having to support that to a degree, it was just like the oldest worst version where like it would just do weird shit for no reason. It didn't conform to any of like the web standards. You're like, I wish people would stop using it. And if you've been to any other company or just watched
00:58:39
Speaker
an adult who's a generation older than you on a computer, they do not understand how that shit works. They have one thing on their desktop that they click, and it brings up the Internet for them. And that's what they use. And Internet. I've entered the net. But yeah, like the same way. It's just that's what I'm used to. It's what I know. I don't want to change things up. I'm like, you have to. It's ruining it for everybody else because you don't want to click on the icon.
00:59:09
Speaker
Then they released edge, which runs on chromium. So that doesn't, they gave off basically. Um, and it's not too bad actually. I use a new browser though. Yeah. Chrome is getting too heavy. People, a lot of people are saying it's time to go back to Firefox. I probably will at some point. Um, I gotta make sure my everything's going to migrate. No problem. It's not even like a question.
00:59:37
Speaker
I do have it. I do have it. Remember some passwords for me, but that's probably the big thing. I'm sure that they probably also, there's like full time employees ensure that they can like crack the passwords or whatever. So they can import them from a different, different browser. Um, probably not necessary, but I use all three at some time, but the primary one's still Chrome.
01:00:02
Speaker
I've only ever used another browser when something's being shittily cached and I can't clear it on my own. And you know what? Fuck it. We're not even going incognito. We're going new browser. How about that shit, motherfucker? Super incognito. I don't have anything for you here. That's what I thought. Yeah, the NSA doesn't have access to Firefox. So you're good. Don't worry about that. It's funny how if I go to, let's say, a nice restaurant or cafe or something, and I'm a regular there, right?
01:00:30
Speaker
And they're like, hey, would you like your usual? I'm like, yeah, you know what? That sounds great. Thanks for having me in mind and having that prepared for me. When I hop online, and I'm trying to go to a web page, and you're like, did you have this timestamp in 32 seconds? I'm like, I will kill you. I will say this is a random aside. But one thing I actually do hold against Edge right now. I've been kind of giving it light compliments. We're going to take that all back.
01:00:57
Speaker
is recently when I was opening it as a new browser window, it's like, hey, we saw that you were already browsing. We figured we'd just do some of the work for you. And if I had a bunch of tabs open in Chrome, it will just like open them in Edge. I guarantee you there's a way to turn this off.
01:01:14
Speaker
Probably. I don't know. That sounds. But it sounds terrible, right? Like, why would you want that? Unless maybe you were browsing and you're like, Hey, I need this open an edge, I guess. But most of the time it's because I want to, I have to use a different browser for something. For me, it's like sessions, right? Like if I'm going to like log into virtual tabletop is actually the biggest example.
01:01:38
Speaker
I can have, like, credentials saved in Chrome, in Edge, in Firefox, and then just sign in as different people to test around as a player or whatever the crap. But, like, yeah, don't open all of my tabs back there. There's a reason they were in the other browser.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:02:02
Speaker
That's a podcast. That's a podcast. That's how we should close it. That's a podcast. Done. Wrap it up. But if you guys have good ideas for how we can end the podcast, it's got to be better than that's a podcast. We've established a very high standard in the last 30 seconds. If you can beat that, you're challenged to do so in the same way. Dave's magazines are challenging him to go to hell.
01:02:30
Speaker
Um, by sending in your suggestions to soapstone podcast at gml.com. Or you can join the discussion on Facebook, a company that we know is going to hell at facebook.com slash soapstone podcast. And as always, we'll see you in the next one in hell.
01:03:06
Speaker
you