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Episode 40: Spring Stampede 1998
36 Plays3 years ago
It's Spring Stampede 1998, and there's trouble down at the nWo-K Corral, brother! Hogan and Nash must face Piper and the Giant in a Baseball Bat on a Pole match...but should the two nWo members fear each other more than their opponents? Can Prince Iaukea avenge his defeated mentor, Dean Malenko? Can Saturn best the rising phenomenon, Goldberg? (Uh...no.) Just how much of the arena will remain after DDP and Raven do battle? For all this, plus a wrestler debut Al has long awaited, let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/letsgo2thering , or on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
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Transcript
Guerrero Family Dynamics
00:00:00
Speaker
Friendly spat between the two Guerrero's one being the older uncle and ending the younger cousin That for you either nephew. Sorry
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:38
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling, series by series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by, oh, wait, look over there, the NWO might be doing something in about a half an hour. My goodness, that's so interesting, I think I'll just discuss that at length, instead of doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'll just, I guess I'll be here when you're done.
00:01:05
Speaker
Oh, oh, hey, hey, Al. Yeah, you're here too. I guess I ought to mention that. Yeah, I feel so, I feel so, so welcome. So important in the grand scheme of things.
Spring Stampede 1998 Overview
00:01:19
Speaker
Well, tonight we're taking a look at Spring Stampede 1998. The biggest, the baddest, no bull.
00:01:29
Speaker
The poster for the event features a jet black bull with red eyes blaring at the viewer with the universal no symbol over it in barbed wire. Good to know that WSW has discovered the proper mystic symbol to protect us against horrible demon bulls. Yes. Although it is worth noting that. So your tagline is the biggest, the baddest, no bull, and what would you put on that cover? How about a bull? Yeah. That makes sense. Fair point. Fair point. Yeah.
00:01:59
Speaker
Also there's definitely one on the stage. That is true. Yes. There actually is a bull on the stage and it's not like destroyed or anything. Even during one of the matches, they take something from it at one point, but I don't think it actually gets broken even. No, I don't believe so. Maybe they meant that they will not use a bull in the match. I guess they kept that promise then. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Mentor was sadly not involved in this one. Yeah.
00:02:30
Speaker
Spring Stampede 1998 was held on April 19th, 1998 at the Denver Coliseum in Denver, Colorado, in front of a sold-out crowd of 7,428, which oddly enough is the exact same number Arsaurus has for paid attendees last year. Huh. That's a heck of a coincidence there. That is.
00:02:52
Speaker
The Coliseum, which unlike a lot of our recent arenas has not yet been renamed for a corporation, was opened in 1951, and it seats about 8,000 to 10,000 people for various sporting events or concerts. So again, assuming that you cut off part of the arena for the wrestler's entrance, that sold out feels pretty reasonable. Yeah. Spring Stampede 1998 earned 250,000 pay-per-view buys. That's over 100,000 more than last year.
00:03:21
Speaker
That is actually on the lower end of WSW's scale for 1998 though, with six of the shows earning more than 300,000 buys. Wow. 1998 is a very good year for WSW buy rate wise at least. That's true. But was it a good year creatively as well? To find out, let's go to the ring.
NWO Power Struggle
00:04:13
Speaker
No power struggle. There is no hostile takeover simply because
00:04:32
Speaker
That seems like a prime reason to worry about you. I'm very worried about him now, yeah.
00:04:53
Speaker
We open with a video package done in kind of Sepia-style but faded red. So, Redia, I guess? Yeah.
00:05:02
Speaker
It covers the NWO power struggle between the macho man Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan, with Savage soon to challenge world champion Sting for the title, and trying to use that to claim leadership of the NWO from Hogan. Meanwhile, Kevin Nash will be teaming with Hogan tonight, but he's aligning himself more with Macho in the NWO feud.
00:05:26
Speaker
There's not much detail in the video, but it does provide enough clips of the tensions in the NWO to be intriguing. I just wish the actual world champion, Sting, was more than kind of a background prop in it. Also, why would Hogan be at the bottom of the pecking order if Macho won the title?
00:05:47
Speaker
I think the idea is that Savage would be in charge of who's challenging next. Is that how it works? That's what he thinks, apparently. I guess so. It's just a weird line, because Hogan, regardless of what happened, would still be a multi-time former world champ. I don't think he's suddenly going to be ranking lower than, say, Mike Enos. Right, right, right. Now, he's below La Parca, obviously, but, you know, other people know. He's always been below La Parca to you.
00:06:37
Speaker
Our set this year is a big barn entryway with some massive bullhorn suspended over it. As in actual horns, not like megaphones. Yes. Our host, Tony Schiavone, welcomes us to the show alongside co-host Bobby the Brain Heenan and Iron Mike Tine. No offense to Tine, but man, you couldn't even give me two years of dusty commentary on the most Texan series WCW has ever done. That's true, yeah.
00:06:40
Speaker
Oh yeah, is that not a common thing across everybody?
00:07:06
Speaker
The commentary desk looks great, but it seems a little less suited to the Western theme than before. In fact, with the gray stone lit from within, it looks more suited to maybe an apocalyptic or sci-fi theme. It's a very serious stampede, I guess. Yes. To this back hundreds of years. As Tony talks, the commentators' names pop up, preceded by Western-themed logos. Tony gets a cowboy face, Heaton gets a bottle of booze, and Tenet gets a sheriff's star.
00:07:36
Speaker
Tony builds up the problems in the NWO and the multiple titles on the line tonight. He throws to Tanay, who says that Randy Savage, who had an injured arm, has healed enough to get the cast off for his title match against Sting, and that they've agreed to no-DQ rules. Tony says that Savage, even injured, will do well in a no-DQ match, and he then builds up the baseball bat match. That's Hogan and Nash versus Piper and the Giant, and gleefully says the NWO guys are afraid.
00:08:06
Speaker
Tony throws to our first match and he then sneaks in a play ball. So our first match is Perry Saturn, accompanied by Kidman, versus Goldberg. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick.
Goldberg's Undefeated Streak
00:08:22
Speaker
So at this point, Goldberg is full into his undefeated streak. He's been going for quite a few months now. We have a 97 starcade, correct? Yeah, I believe that's his first starcade is 97. Right. And he's not new, new, but he's fairly new at that point. So it's been, let's say six months or so, give or take. So he's undefeated still at this point. One of his recent victims is Perry Saturn.
00:08:47
Speaker
At the same time, he was recently named the no more contender to the US title. Imagine the announcement take place on Nitro after this pay-per-view. Though they don't civically state it. It's kind of clear that Raven, presuming he's going to win the title, cause you know, he's the bad guy. Of course he thinks that. Once Perry Saturn to beat up Goldberg in case he's got to face him. I kind of wish it was more clearly stated, but at least infer that pretty easily.
00:09:16
Speaker
Makes sense in storyline, so he's basically like sending his henchmen out there, say, and soften him up. Exactly, yeah. Saturn's entrance music with very whiny siren is just plain irritating. I bet. He comes to the ring in a hooded vest, accompanied by Kidman in full drug addict mode. Goldberg's music hits, and I do not like Saturn's chances. No.
00:09:41
Speaker
Goldberg isn't yet doing the full walk from backstage or stand in the fireworks bits. This is only seven months in Tenet notes. Oh, there you go. Okay, that's pretty close. Yeah, you were quite close there. Yeah. As we cut back to the ring, we see that Saturn has hair. Mm-hmm. It shocked the heck out of me to see that. Yeah, it's true. This was the first time I think I've actually seen, you know, Saturn with luscious locks, so. Yeah.
00:10:09
Speaker
It's not as most iconic look, for sure. Yeah. It will make it much easier to tell these two apart than at Slamboree 1998. Oh, right, yeah. They both were two beefy bald guys that both wore black. That's true. Oh, go. Saturn lands early strikes, but Goldberg suplexes him, and Saturn gives an excellent spinning sell.
00:10:34
Speaker
Goldberg spins Saturn into an ankle lock, but Kidman tries to drag Saturn out, only for Goldberg to chuck Kidman out onto a retreating Saturn. Saturn flips over Goldberg, back into the ring, and hits a kick combo, rebound leg drop, and second rope elbow. For one. Barely. Yeah. Saturn keeps it up, but Goldberg demolishes him with a spinning neckbreaker and press slam, then chases off Kidman again.
00:11:01
Speaker
Saturn finally stuns Goldberg by snapping his neck across the ropes and uses a great suplex and sidekick, then sends him outside with one of those jumping knee strikes that's more of a shove.
00:11:13
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Savage always does those best. Yeah. Before hitting a drop kick from the apron that sends Goldberg into the steps, then mashing Goldberg's arm with the same steps and even hitting an apron Hurricanrana. Today builds up Saturn, noting that he's been more successful than anyone else who's faced Goldberg yet. Saturn tries a moonsault, but completely fails. Yeah. He gets no rotation at all. It just falls to the floor.
00:11:42
Speaker
It's rough, yeah. Goldberg does try to catch him, but he was clearly expecting something else, so he just kind of manages to slow his fall just a little bit. Tony nicely does cover it by calling it an attempted back elbow instead, but even he has to admit it just kind of missed. Back in, Saturn hits a top rope, spinning wheel kick for one. Saturn works Goldberg's arm, but Goldberg counters a charge with a side slam, though Hienan points out that he is favoring the arm.
00:12:10
Speaker
A Saturn dropkick is slightly mistimed so Saturn hits the chest. Goldberg nails a sidekick, and Tanay asks, how do you defend against that? Leave, it equips.
00:12:23
Speaker
Goldberg's spear, and the crowd erupts. But as Goldberg goes for the jackhammer, Kidman distracts Patrick, so Saturn slugs Goldberg in the crotch. Saturn puts Goldberg up top, but Goldberg suddenly presses him overhead and slams him down. It's a great spot, though you could definitely see both of them prepping for it, but I don't blame them, that was pretty risky. Oh yeah, no for sure. The Vlock runs in, but Goldberg fights them off, only for Saturn to hit him from behind while he's busy decimating Kidman.
00:12:54
Speaker
Saturn locks on the rings of Saturn, but Goldberg gets an arm free, lifts Saturn up on his back, and after a couple attempts, shoves Saturn airborne, then mostly hits the jackhammer for the three count and the win. The jackhammer was a little bit touch-and-go, but he got control of it after an initial scare and landed it fine. Tony says Brute Power won that match, and Goldberg is officially 74-0.
00:13:20
Speaker
We get replays of the spear to Saturn, the second row press slam, and the counter into the jackhammer. It looks a lot better from the replays angle where you can better tell that Goldberg did get it totally under control before going down. Oh yeah. Bang, Hienan says. And today, nicely segues to talk about the possibility that Goldberg, challenging for the US title on Nitro, might face DDP if DDP retains his United States title tonight.
00:13:46
Speaker
Thoughts on this one?
Chavo Guerrero Jr. vs Altimo Dragon
00:13:47
Speaker
That was a pretty solid opener. It was good to have someone like Saturn against Goldberg, I think, because if you're going to have a longer Goldberg match, especially at this point in his career, you need a real experienced guy, but you also need a guy who can do a lot of things.
00:14:03
Speaker
If you just get a guy who's like really good technical, you'll get some of that, but it's come pretty one note, especially in Goldberg. Does his limited, albeit very flashy touch and lose like that leg take down and he likes to do with that knee bar. He does at this point. So having a guy of Saturn who can mostly do his flying moves really well and aerial stuff as a nice layer to it. So you can have some very competitive striking match, but then here's this guy can fly now and then he can also do the suplexes which are nice.
00:14:31
Speaker
He's got a lot of variety. So yeah, he can kind of mix it up. The other thing that's really nice with Saturn is he's big enough that you can buy him stunning Goldberg, but also he's still a little bit smaller than Goldberg. So you can do the, he just kind of like bounces off of him and Goldberg just absorbs his strikes. So he like fits right nicely in, I think like the butter zone for an early Goldberg opponent.
00:14:55
Speaker
You can buy him as a possible threat, but also that Goldberg can just keep looking superhuman against him without feeling like he's devaluing Saturn. Yeah, I can see that for sure. He's also a good size that Goldberg can mostly, you know, throw him around really easily. Yeah. And it looks impressive. He's big enough that it looks impressive for Goldberg to do it. Yes. But slim enough that
00:15:20
Speaker
Goldberg can do it without looking like he's struggling. Exactly. Yeah. If you have Goldberg fight, you know, Mark Curtis, I would say, oh, it's a Kidman. Yeah. Or even Kidman. Yeah. It's he'll be able to fling them around like nobody's business, but it's not going to look as impressive. Right. But Saturn's beefy enough that it looks impressive. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
It's nice to see the little bit for Goldberg does try to do new stuff or variations of stuff. Like I'll give them credit for trying to do the segue into the jackhammer like they do. Yeah. A little point is I'll offer execution. I feel like it's almost a case, for better or for worse, of Saturn trying to add more stuff to the match. Because you know, at this point, Saturn worked with a lot of guys and he's just generally worked longer. So I can see him pitching, oh, we can do this. Oh, we can do this. Oh, we can do all these things.
00:16:09
Speaker
and Goldberg going along for it and being really up for it, but maybe not having experience to do all the stuff correctly. Yeah, and there's a certain factor of tiredness after a bit of a chunk they do point out on commentary, which I think is also accurate that this is one of Goldberg's longest matches at this point. Oh, yeah, sure.
00:16:27
Speaker
When he's doing the jackhammer at the end, when he's pushing the leg, his hand seems to like slip off a little bit. Yeah. So I don't think it's so much that he didn't have the power as that he... It's a form, yeah. Yeah, it was the form that he didn't have. And it's actually, it's impressive how well he manages to get it right back under control. When he brings Saturn down, it actually is totally safe. Oh yeah, no. He has him totally under control at that point, so he doesn't go down until he knows he's got it. Mm-hmm. You're all thought it was a pretty good match, yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was a nice little match as well. Saturn controls the flow of the match, as you might expect given Goldberg's less than a year into his career, but though you can definitely tell that Goldberg is still green like we pointed out, some flubs here and there, he more than does his part in this. Yeah. He sells enough to give the crowd some doubt and to build to a comeback while still looking monstrously strong.
00:17:15
Speaker
It's a tricky balancing act that he actually manages quite well. So Saturn comes off looking notably good against him without at all damaging Goldberg's unstoppable persona. I actually feel like this match actually does a fair amount to build up Saturn as well. Just being able to do as well against Goldberg as he does. Right. You could run with that. Like, okay, I didn't beat him, but I got closer than anybody.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah, even just the fact that he doesn't go down to the spear-jackhammer combo. Right. Obviously with some help still. That's, yeah. It makes him look better that way as well.
00:17:51
Speaker
They do have a few botches and some close calls. Some I think you can probably blame on Goldberg's inexperience as his timing just isn't there a couple times, but others are just poor luck or bad footing. But the match is still fun regardless, and it really kept the crowd's attention as they roared every time Goldberg even hinted at a comeback. It was a fun and a rare non-cruiser-weight way to warm up the crowd in this era that actually worked. The crowd's really into this one. It is, yeah, for sure.
00:18:22
Speaker
That stated Goldberg would challenge the winner of the US title match coming up later in the show. He would ultimately go 176 and 0, so you can probably guess what happens. And as Bob mentioned, the pair would have a match next month at Sambury as well. Which was also pretty good as I recall. It was, yeah. Our second match.
00:18:45
Speaker
is Chavo Guerrero Jr., accompanied by Uncle Eddie Guerrero, versus Altimo Dragon. Referee for this one is Charles Robinson.
00:18:55
Speaker
Going back a little ways, there was a bit of a friendly spat between the two Guerrero's. One being the older uncle, one being the younger nephew. They had a match for the gentleman wager involved. And ultimately Chavo lost, thus he had to do what Eddie said for a while. They don't put a finite like time limit on it. It's just until you can prove yourself kind of thing. So Chavo was not officially restricted by this. He was restricted by his word and his bond and family and all that stuff.
00:19:25
Speaker
Yeah. It wasn't an official match stipulation, it was just theirs. There's even a point in the build to this on a, I think it's Nitro with Thunder, because they watched, you know, like 10 of them for this. Thank you for writing a second show in 98. I really appreciate it. Chavo is booked to have a TV title match against Booker T. Eddie in the back tells him that to show him how it's done, he's going to take his match instead. Oh, God. Eddie was booked to wrestle Ben Wall that night.
00:19:54
Speaker
he forced the switch on and which obviously annoyed Benoit, as you can imagine, annoyed Chavo and annoyed Booker T. It's actually weird, more of an angle than a match. You would think an Eddie Guerrero, Booker T match would be a big thing. And then if they have one on the previous paper review. But basically it's this prolonged angle where Eddie knocks him out with the generic thing wrapped in tape in his fist. Oh yeah, of course. But it's never explained how it's supposed to work. Like is that metal? What is that?
00:20:24
Speaker
It's a rusting thing. He knocks him out, but the referee's tracked too long and Chavo throws it back into the ring to him when the ref sees it and this just qualifies him. Even though he didn't actually see a strike, which is kind of nebulous rule wise, but you know, referee's got a referee. Yeah. Yeah. So they're not getting along. So this match, according to Eddie's, we'll give him his freedom if he can win it though, though he has no high hopes for his nephew. Oh, okay.
00:20:53
Speaker
Chavo's entrance music is kind of cool. It's kind of a bass guitar solo. He comes to the ring with Uncle Eddie, both wearing shirts that read, Eddie Guerrero is my favorite wrestler on front and cheat to win on the back. Those are great for the gimmick and also would be terrific merch, I'm sure. The cheat to win thing definitely would carry over years later when they were together as Los Guerrero's. Yeah. You're not cheating, you're not trying.
00:21:23
Speaker
Altimo Dragon's outfit tonight is in the colors of the Mexican flag, with his cape even being styled after the flag itself, complete with the coat of arms in the center. It's unusual to see Dragon do an outfit that's not primarily one color, and it looks really cool. Tony, incidentally, does call him Altimo this time, so they finally straightened that out.
00:21:47
Speaker
The commentators, meanwhile, discuss the no DQ match between Sting and Savage. Hienan says, in a no DQ match, Savage will have the advantage and he'll be able to use weapons to keep Sting away from his injury. Tine agrees, saying, the most dangerous wrestler just became more dangerous. Which is a very good tagline, actually. If they were doing a poster and wanted a tagline for it, that's the tagline, not the noble thing. No, for sure, yeah.
00:22:16
Speaker
Eddie, with towel, has some words with Chavo who has a complicated expression. Dragon and Chavo rapidly counterwrestle, and Chavo gets the better of that, but Dragon wins a quick striking sequence with a leg sweep to a big crowd reaction. Chavo dodges a charge in the corner, but Dragon headstand kicks him to send him butt over teakettle. Dragon kicks Chavo hard in the back of the head, and Tony says, that'll knock the taste out of your mouth from the back of your head forward.
00:22:47
Speaker
Is there another direction something would get knocked out of your mouth? I don't want to picture that. I guess it could pierce your cheek and go sideways. I don't know. Dragon pretzels Chavo and Eddie encourages Chavo by asking if he's going to quit.
00:23:05
Speaker
Chavo counters into a bridging deathlock chinlock, it's similar to the one that Dragon himself uses, but Dragon gets the ropes. Tony asks, why, if Eddie cares, he doesn't cheat for Chavo. Hienan asks, are you saying that cheating is okay? And Tony says, no, but Eddie cheats for himself all the time, so what's the double standard? Hienan says, the double standard is, there's two guerreros.
00:23:32
Speaker
Tony asked Tenet to take over talking to Hienen, but Tenet says he's all Tonys. I thought it was a pretty good job by Tony actually asking about cheating without actually really advocating for it. It's a hard thing to kind of get across story-wise that you're not okay with cheating, but this guy cheats, so why isn't he?
00:23:53
Speaker
Chavo counters Dragon's moves and gets him in another chinlock, and Eddy yells at him to use the ropes or use the mask, but Chavo refuses. Unbelievable, Eddy grumps. Chavo elbow drop gets one and a half, then two. Chavo and Dragon trade ground holds, with Dragon using a neat camel clutch sleeper and a brutal backbend. I'm trying, Mom, Eddy says. I'm trying.
00:24:20
Speaker
An excellent rapid counter sequence ends in a dragon-la-mahistro cradle, but Chavo keeps the roll going so they end up in the ropes for zero. Chavo Lariat gets two and a half. Dragon Herakirana gets two, but Chavo reverses for two and a half. Tony thinks if Chavo won, Eddie would beat up Eddie.
00:24:42
Speaker
Chavo and Dragon fight in the corner, and Dragon ends up on the apron. Chavo tries to suplex him in, but Dragon counters to suplex Chavo out instead. Then hits the Asai moon salt. See Saturn? That's how you do a moon salt.
00:24:57
Speaker
Eddie tells Chavo if he loses, it'll be double as hard for him. Chavo's son's dragon goes in and hits an amazing somersault flip over the ropes to the floor, getting so much hang time, he almost overshoots dragon entirely. It was quite impressive, yeah. Yeah, even Eddie looks just shocked by that one. Like, I didn't know you could do that. Yeah, right. Back in, they clothesline each other down, but they're up at a six count.
00:25:24
Speaker
Dragon ends a giri, and he tries his top rope splash, but Chavo dropkicks him. Right in the crotch. Eddie screams for Chavo to get Dragon while he's hurt, but Chavo realizes what's happened and backs off, letting Robinson check on Dragon. Eddie loses it, kicks the steps, and lectures and slaps Chavo hard.
00:25:47
Speaker
Dragon recovers, so Chavo goes back to dropkick him and tries a Brainbuster. But Dragon inside cradles him for two and a half. Tenay praises Chavo's sportsmanship, but Henan says he should do to Dragon before Dragon does to him. Chavo Brainbuster, and he says that was for Eddie, as Eddie commonly uses that hold. Eddie tells him to pin Dragon. What are you waiting for, Christmas? Oh my god, I can't believe you!
00:26:16
Speaker
Eddie is gold in this match. Chavo wants to win with his own move, so he lets Dragon stand, then tries his Tornado DDT. But Dragon counters it into the Dragon Sleeper for the submission victory. What great sportsmanship, huh? And he lost, he then says. A furious Eddie climbs into the ring and stalks over to Chavo, asking, what do I have to do to make you win?
00:26:44
Speaker
Eddie amusingly points at Dragon and Mimes being hit in the crotch, bouncing around, then points at Chavo and walks around aimlessly, burbling his lips with one hand. Oh man, Eddie is great in this. Chavo protests, earning a slap, but he still says, I am not cheating to win. We get replays of the kick on the top rope, the brain buster, and the attempted tornado DDT counter into the Dragon's sleeper.
00:27:30
Speaker
Eddie is really good at getting heat on the outside and pointing to the camera, but so much of the time, with the exception of some of the big moves like that dive, Eddie basically steals the heat from the match itself, which is for the crowd. It's not like there's no reaction for the match. It's just, it's one of the things, it's like we talked a long ago with what people would do the, let's go see, no, see, no sucks chant. Okay.
00:27:36
Speaker
Great sportsmanship, whoop-dee-doo, Henan says.
00:27:53
Speaker
Because you go to Eddie Sucks chant through the match. And Eddie is around, and he's trying to tend to the match, but if it's just going to him, then it's not going to people in the ring. I get it. So from the crowd itself, you're saying, yeah, I can see that. They do throw a lot of abuse at him. Exactly. But that means they may or may not be actually paying attention to what's going on in the ring.
00:28:14
Speaker
So, I can say it's kind of weird because it's a critique of Eddie for being too good at getting heat, essentially. So I was like, don't be so good at that, I guess. There's little things here I kind of wish will be touched upon. I kind of feel this point of saying you missed some obvious stuff. Like they don't, they don't really comment on Dragon's outfit at all. It's done in a major way. Yeah, they don't really talk about that. They don't talk about the point where Chavo uses a hold that I'm pretty sure we see Dragon use all the time.
00:28:43
Speaker
Uh-huh. So they miss out on a few things on commentary, but they do a good job of highlighting some of the story elements as well. Basically, the Eddie and Chavo angle they're talking about in good detail through the whole thing, which is great. So I think maybe they're too focused on that side and not necessarily on some of the other aspects they could be pointing out. Yeah. But you're right, it does feel weird, especially for T'Nay to not have hit on some of those points. With the fact that Dragon is a camel clutch, it's kind of notable as well.
00:29:13
Speaker
It's the Camel Clutch was invented by Gory Guerrero. Oh, okay.
00:29:18
Speaker
So it's got a complicated history. The name mostly is known from the original Sheik, aka the Uncle of Sabu. But it was originally invented by Gori Guerrero, who of course had six children. Sundoro once of course being Mondo Guerrero, Hector Guerrero, Eddie's freakishly twin brother. Yes. It's very eerie. Almost 17 years after Eddie Guerrero died and seeing his practically his twin walking around. Yeah, I remember when we saw him. I believe it was Starrcade86.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yes. And does all of us looking like, wait, is Eddie Guerrero on this? Oh, wait, no, that's not him. Yeah. And of course, he also is to his sons are Chavo and Eddie. Chavo senior and Eddie. Yeah. I thought today we will accept them and keep going. It's not the biggest thing in the world, but yeah, it's it's a really good match. I think between two. It's just, yeah, there's so much going on that I think they miss details along the way. And Eddie's maybe too good at drawing attention to himself.
00:30:18
Speaker
I thought this was an excellent match, combining great action with a great story. Chavo and Eddie's complex relationship is used very well here, and I'll agree with you that for the live crowd, I think that Eddie draws too much attention to himself, but how they use it on the actual broadcast, I think it ends up just highlighting the reaction rather than ever distracting from it.
00:30:41
Speaker
I guess it may be because the live crowd can always see Eddie. Yeah. But on the broadcast, they're able to show Eddie only when they need to because he's highlighting something. They actually do one of the better direction jobs that I've ever seen in WCW, managing to highlight him when it's important and then cut away from him to the match to keep the focus on that. It's a rare good WCW direction job highlight, I guess, for us here. Yeah, actually.
00:31:07
Speaker
It'd be really easy for the actual in-ring action to become a sideshow to the family feud, but it didn't to me. Instead, they kept the focus on what was going on in the match, and Eddie just served to emphasize certain moments and get across Chavo's honorable personality.
00:31:22
Speaker
We combined that with some simply amazing hold sequences and counters and some terrific acrobatics by both, and you've got a great match. I think my only real complaint in this is that it felt like maybe they switched holds a little too quickly at times. It didn't always feel like they gave time for a hold to actually do any work or see if their opponent might submit. They just kind of ran through them.
00:31:43
Speaker
They have a checklist where I got this hold to someone that's what's to now and they're all amazing It's just like give give another like five seconds in each hold to be like, oh, okay This isn't accomplishing something or he's resisting me or something like that and then move on where instead they just kind of like transition sometimes
00:32:00
Speaker
Yeah, quick holds work when it's emphasis. Like if Chavo puts, you know, that back bridging move on Dragon, Dragon Cook, the Ghost, the Ropes, it shows how strong the move is. Right. Or if it's legitimately you're trading out because the other guy countered or was about to counter. Right. But in this case, it just feels like sometimes they flow to another hold really quickly just because they'd like to do another hold now. Sure.
00:32:26
Speaker
Aside from that, though, these two worked really, really well together, and I felt this was a masterclass emerging story and match in a way that benefited both. Again, though I'll agree with you that commentary missed some potential interesting points, like historical points. I thought they did a great job highlighting the match story. It definitely gives you plenty of great healing clips. Yes, that is definitely for sure. He's on good form tonight, overall. For sure, yeah.
00:32:57
Speaker
The following month, we'd have the flip side of the match where Dragon would then be taking on Eddie Guerrero. So in this match, the deal was if Chavo won, he'd get his freedom from Eddie. The same breed match. If Dragon won and beat Eddie, then Chavo will get his freedom from him. Right. We go to Lee Marshall, who is at the internet chat table with Diamond Dallas Page.
Diamond Dallas Page Promo
00:33:24
Speaker
Tomorrow, it's going to be you and Goldberg. He's never faced anybody like you before, the Diamond Cutter and all. You know, I'm not thinking about Goldberg right now, bruh. I mean, tonight, it's Spring Stampede. A year ago, today, I hit Savage with the Diamond Cutter. Nobody, nobody thought that was going to happen but me. Tonight, it's Raven. Bottom line is the way I see it. He's got something to mind. I'm coming to get it. He's got the belt. I'm coming here to get it back for me and end all his charades.
00:33:54
Speaker
A nice little promo by Paige here. I love that Spring Stampede has deep meaning to him after last year gave him his first shot at the big time. It's always cool when wrestlers reference history beyond the immediate moment. For sure, yeah. He nicely portrays keeping his eye on the ball too, recognizing he can't just look beyond Raven to Goldberg. He has to beat Raven before he can even think about being able to fight Goldberg. Right. So this was short but very good I thought. A great idea.
00:34:21
Speaker
My only critique is that their website is called wcwwwrestling.com. Yes, yes. Other than that, no, I'm good. It is interesting. I guess there must have already been a wcw.com that just was something else. Yeah, must be. Because otherwise you really would have thought that they'd just get that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Because you want, you know, some dumb teenager like I would have been at that point. How do you find wcw's website? Wcw.com? Yeah.
00:34:51
Speaker
Our third match is Chris Benoit versus Booker T for Booker's WCW World Television Championship.
Booker T's Rise as TV Champion
00:35:00
Speaker
Referee for this one is Mickey J. So at this point Booker T has been TV champ for a little while now.
00:35:08
Speaker
He's taken many people. The key thing as TV champion is he's wrestling pretty much almost non-stop between Nitro and Thunder, which was a big thing for the higher contract wrestlers who suddenly have to work twice as many shows for their guaranteed dates. Oh, God, I'll bet. If you mind it, he didn't make it very obvious, so he liked a former, I'm guessing, at this point.
00:35:30
Speaker
That is the thing like Booker is trying to break out as a single star at this point. Yes. So it may not be the best thing contract wise, but it definitely is good for his exposure and making clear that he is a very valuable performer for the company. Yes. You definitely get a feeling from this point and going forward that they recognize, holy crap, we've got something really good here.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, so in the buildup shows, he fought a slow opponent, including Barry Darso. Yes. Whoa. That Barry Darso on Thunder. Was he in hole in one gimmick? He was not. He was in, I'm Barry Darso wearing plain red trunks gimmick. Oh, okay. All right. Not very exciting. I noted Eddie Guerrero and the one I just talked about. He did have a separate match against Chavo as well. And in the go home night show, he fought the
00:36:25
Speaker
wearing a classic white and black outfit, not as yellow and black as you'll see later. The flip side is Benoit has been a real strong character on WSW, but he had never won a title. Which is just fascinating to think. It's just one of those things, I'm sure, that just things never lined up with the right angle and the right moment. But that is amazing thinking of just the caliber of performer that he was for them at that time.
00:36:44
Speaker
Best person on the show, La Parco.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah. And just that he had not won any title. No, not just like Sigils thing. You would have thought like he would have at least had a brief tag run or. Yeah. He just has the misfortune, I think, like a lot of people have coming up just before the start of the end of your angle. So you have him caught up in. OK, the Dungeons of Doom thing is going on and we're all caught up in that. And then you have the end of your angle is starting up. So now we're all caught up in that. And it just never lines up.
00:37:21
Speaker
Yeah. And he was stuck in that very prolonged thing as an offshoot of that with Kevin Sullivan as well. Right, yeah. Who doesn't really need to be involved in a title feud himself, therefore his opponent doesn't get to be. Yeah, exactly.
00:37:35
Speaker
But yeah, in the past few shows, he had been in the mix with DDP and Raven. They have an uncensored match, which I recall being pretty darn good. Yeah. Also with noting in the build-up on other shows, Benoit has fought Booker T twice, but the TV title matches only go 10 minutes. They had two matches go to a time limit draw. So like the old TV title time limit gimmick, but even shorter now? Yes. Okay.
00:38:01
Speaker
And in this case, it's not like the heel trying to escape, it's just they're fighting so competitively. Neither one can get an edge and get a victory during that time period. So for this one, the time limit's been retracted. Yes, correct. Sadly, no horseman theme for Benoit this year. We're back to his crappy, basic guitar riff. I don't know who thought that was a good theme for anyone, frankly.
00:38:26
Speaker
Booker has the Harlem Heat theme, but he's now in his Singles Mode duds, which do nicely carry on the Heat's single color plus flames design motif. In this case, it's white with flames, which really pops. He just did a great job carrying forward his history, even as he was changing his focus with his design and his general look and mannerisms and everything. He carries forward enough of the Harlem Heat version of him while also establishing a new identity. I thought Booker did a great job with that.
00:38:57
Speaker
Booker slaps hands with the fans as he comes down for the ring. The commentators do a great job building up Booker, particularly Heenan, who highlights a conversation that he had with the late Houston Harris, ring name Bobo Brazil, who proclaimed a year prior that Booker T would be a champion and a massive star.
00:39:16
Speaker
Totally right. As Henan notes, that's high praise coming from Harris as well, an African-American wrestling star who, in an era of segregation, worked to break down barriers to rise to the top and pave the way for later great black wrestlers. He even challenged for the WWF and NWA world titles and actually won the ladder, though his win is not officially recognized because in storyline, he refused the title because champion nature boy Buddy Rogers had suffered a low blow.
00:39:43
Speaker
Incidentally, because the WCW title had split off from the NWAs by the time Ron Simmons won it in 1992, the first recognized black NWA World Heavyweight Champion is actually Ron Killings, who won it in 2002. Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's about 40 years after Harris defeated Rogers. Wow, yeah. It took them a while. It did, yeah. At the time of this show, Harris had actually just passed away earlier in the year.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, I just re-watched it. I was like, why? It's interesting we mentioned the IPath win in January. Lockup, and Jay struggles to separate them as they roll around the ropes. Booker gets the better of an early exchange, and Benoit rolls outside, so Booker calmly waits. Tine notes, as we noted, that the TV title Time Limit has been removed, and Heenan claims he said that.
00:40:38
Speaker
Tony tells Tanay not to argue with Hienan. He'll never win. It's like arguing with your wife, he says. Hienan asks when Tony's argued with Tanay's wife. He's so quick with it. He's always on ball. It's amazing. Back in, Benoit dodges a Booker spin kick and slams him on his knee. But Booker lands a spin kick and Benoit rolls back out. Booker beckons him in and holds the ropes for him. Nice little taunting there.
00:41:08
Speaker
Rapid counters, and Booker dodges a Benoit clothesline and lands his own for two. Booker armbar, as Tony asks if driving Benoit to the mat is good strategy. Heenan says the best way to drive him to the mat is with a truck. Booker arcing kick for two, and an armbar, but Benoit gets to the corner to force a break, sneaking in a kick and stomping Booker in the corner. Booker counters a Benoit charge with a backbreaker for two.
00:41:36
Speaker
Tony and Henan nicely discuss the impact of Denver's altitude on the match, and Tony points out the Booker came two days early to prepare. Henan jokes that he actually just read his ticket wrong. Then segues into an extended and excellent riff on frequent flyer programs. He just rattles off this lengthy, lengthy series of gags all around that idea without missing a beat. It's wonderful.
00:42:03
Speaker
Benoit drops Booker chest first on the ropes, then knocks him outside onto the barricade. Booker back in, and Benoit snaps suplexes in for two and a half. Benoit hits a big back suplex, then the swan dive headbutt, but Booker gets the ropes at two. Benoit grabs his leg for another try for two. Booker counters a snap suplex with a beautiful vertical suplex, and both are down for five.
00:42:27
Speaker
Benoit back elbow, snap suplex, and back breaker each get two and a half, as Tony notes that we have just passed the normal time limit for the TV title matches. Good highlight point there that, hey, it made a difference, the rule change made a difference. Benoit rolling German suplexes and a superplex, but he lands hard himself. He covers at eight for two and nine tenths. So close there.
00:42:54
Speaker
Booker gives a great, glassy-eyed look as he starts to sit up. Even the announcers point that out. Benoit whip, but Booker counters with a spinebuster, which Tony accidentally calls a sidewalk slam. Booker flying forearm, and he flings Benoit skyward, and does a spin of Rooney. Booker tries an axe kick, but Benoit pulls Jay in the way. Booker checks on the fallen Jay, but Benoit locks on the crossface.
00:43:21
Speaker
Booker slaps the mat, but then grabs the ropes, and the commentators wonder if he tapped, but regardless the ref is out. Benoit goes to drag Jay to his feet, but Booker suddenly rises and leaps over Jay's head to land a Harlem sidekick to Benoit. That took some faith on Jay's part.
00:43:46
Speaker
Booker pins Benoit and a still dazed J counts 3, giving Booker the win. Holy crap what an ending spot that was, right? The fans are split on the outcome.
00:43:58
Speaker
Booker celebrates with his belt, and an angry Benoit glares at Jay, as WCW staff, including refs Charles Robinson and Mark Curtis, come out to help Jay exit the ring. The replays highlight the axe kick, with the commentators only now realizing that Benoit pulled Jay into it. You couldn't really tell from the initial camera angle. Yeah. The cross face, and Booker's final sidekick. Thoughts on this one?
00:44:23
Speaker
I thought this was a really good match. These two work a great pace. They hit moves really sharp and crisply. It's very precise with them. And it's not even just that they hit their moves well, it's that they hit them with the good force. Yeah, it's a balancing act, like you talk about with other things, because you can do this big run and hit a guy. And if you hit him legit, it can look really, really good.
00:44:50
Speaker
But at the same time, you can actually hurt a guy really badly doing that? Right, yeah. You want your move to look like it could have knocked the guy out without actually knocking him out. Correct. It's kind of hard to carry out the match then. Yeah, exactly, yeah.
00:45:05
Speaker
So yeah, they make it look like they're really beating this, not out of each other. And to sort of hint, they probably are, but it's always cooperative and it's always done well. Booker makes a great face that constantly fights no matter what's going on. Taking three different suplex and then countering a move.
00:45:23
Speaker
Not in a way that no-sells the suplex, it's just in a way that says, like, I have a little energy left and I gotta use it now. Like, he knows his timing. Yeah. He never devalues any offense he's taken. Exactly. He's like a Ricky Steamboat, I think, in that way. He never devalues the offense that he's taken, but he always keeps the fight in him. Yes. That's it, though. So you always believe that he can keep fighting, but you can see the damage he's been taking. Right. Exactly.
00:45:50
Speaker
The ending is definitely a bit complicated because you have to have the timing of the ref bump, you have to have the cross face put on, then the ditty tap or diddy bit or he's been for the ropes. And then obviously, as you mentioned that the precision and adolescence and used in that finish. Oh, God. Yeah.
00:46:08
Speaker
So while it is very complicated, they nail every aspect of it, I thought quite well. Been well put in the reference since it's not too obvious in the first camera angle. No, yeah, I think you and I actually both missed it at first. We both were like, wait, why did Jay even get in there? Yeah, I thought, why is the ref there exactly? Then you see it, he pulls it by the belt really quickly.
00:46:27
Speaker
So it's one of the ones where, yes, it is perhaps an overly complicated finish, but it put together so well and executed so well, it's hard to really be mad at it. Yeah. It's one of those ones that I think if any part of it had gone wrong, we'd be making fun of it as a bad finish. Right. But no part of it goes wrong in any aspect whatsoever. So it's a great finish. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I thought another good match on this show. We're off to a very good start here.
00:46:57
Speaker
I like how they plotted this out as an exception to normal TV title rules, so it makes Booker look like a fighting champion that wants a clean, solid win over Benoit. The controversy over Booker's possible tap-out keeps some intrigue, too, though the ref was out, so it wouldn't have counted anyway. Still, these two put on a good athletic performance, and they had a solid match story the whole way. There were some really excellent counters mixed in and a high intensity the whole way, as you pointed out.
00:47:25
Speaker
And yeah, what an ending spot. Perfectly timed, perfectly executed, and a really creative finish that made use of Booker's incredible vertical leap. This one was a ton of fun and left the story with some really great possibilities, I thought. Absolutely. Okay, so it's important that you know for this that the date of Spring Stampede is April 19th, 1998, because
00:47:52
Speaker
On April 30th, they held a house show as they were wanting to do. On said house show, Benoit would finally win a title by beating Purgatee for the TV title. Oh, there you go. And then on May 1st, they held a second house show and which Purgatee would win its title back. May 2nd, we have another house show and guess what happens? Benoit won the title again. Okay. May 3rd. Good news, Purgatee champion again.
00:48:18
Speaker
Weekend's all done, let's go to Night Show on May 4th, and Boogatee will look settled to fit Finley. All clear on that? Okay, all right. That's an interesting gimmick they tried. So on one hand, it's a great selling point of, you should go to the house show, look what happened when you're not there. But at the same time, there's no follow through with it. Right. Because everything just defaults to normal again.
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah. Like if Benoit was still champion, you go, wait, what happened? Oh, we see the house show. Right. Exactly. Yeah. If you're going to make one of those title changes on a house show, it needs to not be reset before Nitro. Exactly. It's a gimmick to sell the idea should go to live events, but same time an insult to people that attend live events because then we'd see actually a matter of their accounts. Right. Yeah.
00:49:05
Speaker
So that leads then into the Benoit Finley match that was at the Slamboree, as I recall. Our fourth match is the British Bulldog, Davey Boy Smith, with Jim the Anvil Nighthart, versus Kurt Headig, with Rick Roode.
Impact of the Montreal Screwjob
00:49:23
Speaker
The referee for this one is Mark Curtis.
00:49:26
Speaker
So I don't know if you notice, apparently in November of 1997, there was some incident called the Montreal Screwjob. Apparently that affected wrestling in a lot of ways. It's just a minor thing. I'm sure no one will ever reference it again. Yeah, yeah. Or imitate it five billion times a year. No, especially not say three weeks later at the Starrcade. Yeah, no, yeah. They wouldn't be crazy enough to do that. That'd be stupid. So anyhow, Starrcade's on the side.
00:49:53
Speaker
The Montreal Screwed Up happens because of Bret Hart leaving WWF for WCW. Because of the way it was handled, many people weren't happy and left, including Rick Roode. Left the WWF to be clear. Yes, too, yes. Left the WWF, not just the guy that was actually leaving and set the whole thing off.
00:50:11
Speaker
Also, a lot of Hart's friends and family, if they could leave, they left. Owen Hart's family was not allowed to leave, but I'm sure he definitely wanted to. Yeah. So of course, among that group, you have the British Bulldog and Jen Damenite Hart, who both married into the Hart family. Sort of ancillary Hart's.
00:50:30
Speaker
So the story coming off of this arcade was, of course, that the NWO was trying to recruit Bret Hart and he was sort of around them, but he joined them. He helps them here and there, but never really joins. Because at this point, they've already abandoned Bret Hart as a face. He's just a heel now. But he's not a heel at the NWO officially.
00:50:51
Speaker
Bulldog and Nighthart were sort of stuck in the pool there. So they get in a series of matches involving themselves. Kurt Henig, who of course betrayed the Four Horsemen, joined the NWO a while ago. Although he never stopped wearing his colorful singlets, which I'm a little glad for, but also does seem off-brand. Yeah. I will join the NWO, but I'm not banishing color from my repertoire here. Exactly. As well as Brian Adams, who we'll see on Slamboree.
00:51:21
Speaker
In the buildup to this, they healed with handcuff Niteheart and helped be a fresh bulldog. That same was a confusing scenario where we have a singles match between Hennig and Bulldog and their managers, because Rick Root at this point is officially injured and getting his Alloys of London insurance payout. Yes. Which means he cannot wrestle, although he can do everything but literally sign and wrestle a match because he
00:51:47
Speaker
Clearly gets involved in the ring all the time. It's kind of funny how he kept getting the payoff for that. You don't think the people that write insurance policies actually watch WCW, right? I feel like if you should at least check on the guy you're paying, I think I'm going to take lots of money too. You should, but that would require watching WCW. That's true. Fair enough. But yeah, so the idea is that Nighthard and Ruby handcuffed together so Nighthard can stop Ruth from interfering on Henny's bath.
00:52:20
Speaker
Bulldog still has his Union Jack cape, but his outfit is otherwise somewhat plainer than the elaborate one he used at Slamberry in 1993. Though he does still have leg tassels in a general Union Jack theme to this. It's just the 1993 one was so good. Yeah.
00:52:35
Speaker
You know, the fun aside, it never actually happened. It'd be interesting if Bulldog had joined the NWO, where he just had a color-free version of his outfit. It would be interesting, the black and white Union Jack. Yeah, I want to see that now, actually. That would be kind of neat. Nightheart has a Bret Hart-style jacket just with anvil on the back. NWO theme count, one.
00:53:00
Speaker
Kurt Hennig makes his entrance alongside a be-suited Rick Rude. I kept trying to figure out what was on Rude's tie for this whole match, but never got a really good look. This might be money, I'm not sure. Hennig has a leg brace on his right leg. Tenay says, for once he doesn't have to worry about Rude kicking him off the commentary desk to take his place. And then Hennig starts trying to call Rude to do just that. Tony comforts Tenay.
00:53:28
Speaker
A police officer comes down to ringside and Tony accidentally calls him one of Detroit's finest before Tanay reminds him that they're in Denver. Maybe he's a big fan of Robocop. Tony corrects himself and jokes maybe they flew him in from Detroit. There you go. Hienan gives Tony grief and Tanay says it's the altitude. Hienan says Tony was a lookout at Pearl Harbor. Jeez man.
00:53:55
Speaker
Rude and Nightheart are to be handcuffed together outside of the ring to prevent interference. Rude's reluctant, so it takes roughly 75 years to get them actually handcuffed. Yeah. Nightheart at least amuses himself laughing like a maniac and stroking his goatee. He's very good at that. He is, yes. Curtis finally threatens to declare Bulldog the winner, and that gets Rude to agree.
00:54:20
Speaker
The cop puts the cuffs on, and the match begins while the camera is still on Rude and Nightheart. Ah, there we go, this show was feeling far too well produced to be a WCW show. Bulldog beats Hennig up and wrenches his leg, and Hennig slides out to limp around. Nightheart prevents Rude from going after Bulldog as he rolls Hennig back in. Hennig pokes his eyes and land strikes, but hurts his own braced leg with a knee strike.
00:54:47
Speaker
Bulldog, Headbutt, gets two, and he works the leg. Henig nicely spins to try to keep his leg away, but Bulldog drags him to the center for a knee lock. Rude tries to reach in, but Nightheart keeps him back. Hina jokes that the bassuited Rude looks like Nightheart's lawyer, and Tony cracks up. Henig elbows free, but hurts his own leg with a kick. Tony points out that sort of error is unusual for him. That is normally perfect.
00:55:20
Speaker
Bulldog works the knee and goes for the sharpshooter, but we cut to the outside where Nighthart is choking a police officer. Rude has gotten the keys and unlocks himself, then cuffs Nighthart to the turnbuckle and land strikes.
00:55:37
Speaker
Unaware that the camera's still on him, because it really should be focusing on the match again, the policeman talks quite calmly to Nightheart. Hennig escapes the sharpshooter off camera. Bulldog tries a slam in the corner, but Rude grabs his leg. Bulldog turns to confront Rude, but Hennig sends Bulldog face first into the ring post. Rather nicely, he does go a little high so he'll miss the pad and hit the post specifically for the three count and the win.
00:56:08
Speaker
We go back outside, and the cop's hat has finally come off, revealing that the earlier police officer has actually been replaced by the NWO's Vincent. I thought this was actually quite a good job on their part. There's a couple shots earlier where you can get a clear enough look that if you're paying attention, you can spot it before the reveal, but they actually got a cop with a pretty similar build and overall look to Vincent, so it's actually fairly easy to miss the switch.
00:56:35
Speaker
Vincent Evelyn manages to keep his hat kind of tilted forward to cover much of his face while Nightheart is choking him, which helps hide the switch from the audience for a little bit longer. Yeah, I think for me, there's a cop-a-brink side for the intro, the very, very long intro, and then there's just not a cop round at all until suddenly he's being choked. Yeah. So I don't see a switch happen so much as they cover it, as this cop magically appears there to be assaulted by Nightheart.
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah, I do think it raises the question of, uh, wait, where'd the first guy go again? Yes, that is a very good question. I was asked that question as well. Yeah. But I thought they did a fair job of not making it obvious. Like when Nighthart's choking the guy at first, you do think, wait, why is he suddenly assaulting the police officer? Yeah.
00:57:20
Speaker
In the ring, Rude and Headig beat up Bulldog. Nightheart gets Vincent's nightstick, but he's handcuffed so he can't do much. Vincent gets the nightstick back and gives it to Rude, who chokes Bulldog with it as Vincent beats up Nightheart. And then Rude comes over to choke Nightheart with the nightstick as well. The bell rings incessantly through this whole thing. The NWO finally leaves. NWO theme count? Two.
00:57:47
Speaker
Henig nicely limps all the way up the ramp, but he tries the old Mr. Perfect thing, tossing the nightstick skyward to try and catch it, and just flat out misses. He does, yeah. He very sheepishly scoops the nightstick up and retreats.
00:58:02
Speaker
Refs Silverman and Curtis free Nighthart with a spare handcuff key, as Charles Robinson checks on Bulldog. And Heenan advises them to just leave Nighthart there and pack him up in the truck with the ring parts at the end of the night. Thoughts on this one? I don't know. On one hand, okay, so it's the Kurt Hennig and British Bulldog match. I should be like, this is gonna be great, because it's Kurt Hennig and the British Bulldog. But at the same time, I'm realist and I know it's 1998.
00:58:31
Speaker
It's not bad, it's just, it's very slow. There's plenty of technical skills shown, well, when there's not punching. There's very few moments when there's not punching. Even working punches in the technical holds is creative, I guess. You know, punching a guy who's wearing a leg brace is maybe questionable, given the brace part of it.
00:58:52
Speaker
I guess they have to lean into the fact that Henig is legit injured, by the way. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, this is not gimmick. He's trying to, you know, get us one more payday and on people's views, so he's going to work through it. And, you know, he's hurt him and he's going to work through this kind of stuff. It's a bad history of British Bulldog and matches with slow, methodical leg holds. This is not quite that bad, but it's definitely not great.
00:59:18
Speaker
I know 1998, I know it's lower my expectations quite a bit for this, but it's still a little disappointing seeing these two working a so-so TV match where there should be no stakes. To be fair, they try to work the crowd in little ways here and there, so I can't fault them for lack of effort. It's just, I think there's only so much they can actually do. It's not like they don't want to try.
00:59:42
Speaker
There's just not a lot they actually can do at this point. Especially, like you pointed out, with Henig actually injured. That explains a little bit more of it to me because this is not far removed from his 97 match against DDP. Yes. That I recall being really, really good. Oh yeah. That explains a little bit more about how kind of basic this match felt. Right. And even seeing him a couple years later with we have a Slambry 2000, which wasn't an amazing match, but closer to the Henig of old in that match.
01:00:13
Speaker
The finish is interesting. I wish I could see where the cop went during all this and where he supposedly went off too. Because yeah, like I said, it's, there's a cop there does the handcuffing and then he's a non-factor until suddenly he's seemingly being choked by night after no reason. And they got this whole prolonged finish. I'm kind of disappointed they didn't do the perfect plaques. Maybe he couldn't because of his knee being messed up. I don't know. Possible. Yeah. Might not have wanted to risk it.
01:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of a lame finishing move. I do get your point that he does push him past the pads with not just head into the turnbuckle pads as a finishing move. It's a little better than that, but it's kind of disappointing given who's involved. Yeah, I didn't think this was very much of a match. It's basically just Bulldog kicking Henig in the leg for most of it, punctuated by Henig, oddly repeatedly making the mistake of using his injured knee to attack.
01:01:10
Speaker
I get once to get the point across, but several times it just doesn't really work. They do a fine job with the outside angle aside from the camera and pointing the camera at Vincent while he's talking calmly to Nighthart, but it isn't the sort of angle that should get that much focus. The camera should have just been on it to show that Rude got free and cuffed Nighthart, then gone back to the match. We actually miss like 90% of the match finish.
01:01:52
Speaker
We were supposed to get Bulldog and Rude. Yeah, who'd he end up fighting? It was Boss Man, wasn't it? Uh-huh, yeah. Okay, so the 93. 93, yeah. Yeah. I only mentioned that because, yeah, like I said, Bulldog's replacement because he was fired involves the not-Boss Man known for his handcuffs and nightstick. And seeing how prevalent suddenly this happens almost five years later.
01:02:02
Speaker
Coming from Bulldog and Hennig, both of whom I really like, this was very disappointing.
01:02:17
Speaker
History eventually gives you sort of the match you're hoping for, even if it's not as good as you would have hoped five years later. Yeah.
01:02:27
Speaker
And he would go out, finally get his actual knee worked on shortly after this. He'd be up for a couple months, but come back in time for the storyline, I believe it's around Green American Bash, involving who's going to pick which side in the upcoming NWO split. So he's back for that, but he's thankfully out for a while to get better. Take some time off, dude. Exactly.
01:02:50
Speaker
Our fifth match is Prince Iakea versus Chris Jericho for Jericho's WCW Cruiserweight Championship.
Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko Feud
01:02:59
Speaker
Referee for this one is Billy Silverman. So in the recent months, Jericho's had a very personal feud with Dean Malenko, and he's been victorious on every occasion so far, leading to Malenko saying that he has to, quote, go home.
01:03:18
Speaker
Jericho is very cocky now that he's best as rival in Senate packing Jericho, it's gimmick where he would Keep trophies from his fallen opponents including hooch and Guerrero who we beat in a math course a title match In the bubble this he would also beat of all people Marge and Eddie Oh Wow, he was a a jobber who was we do see on Sam Brielle It doesn't really do much in that battle royale to turn who gets to fight Jericho here in the show. Yes Rock Rock never stopped my did you know? Absolutely
01:03:48
Speaker
Mario generally would prove very unsuccessful against Jericho, so unsuccessful in the fact that he's able to cut a promo afterwards, the famous Man of 1004 Holds promo. Would it be interrupted by Prince Iakea, his opponent tonight? One of the best promos of all time, right? I mean, I think we can agree on that. It's definitely up there for sure, yeah.
01:04:10
Speaker
Famously, I believe Jericho talks about this. I think it's in his book. He talks about that he starts the promo before commercial break, starts listing off all these holds that he can supposedly do. Every third one is Armbar. Yes. But it goes to commercial. He quickly insults every possible local figure in sports team. They works the audience into a fury. When it comes back from commercial break, they are screaming bloody murder at him.
01:04:39
Speaker
And he goes on like he's been reading the list the entire time. Correct, yeah. Brilliant, brilliant work. Absolutely brilliant. Ayakea comes down to the ring with a sarong over his wrestling duds. Chris Jericho's WSW theme has been overdubbed with his WWE theme in this version. It's always funny to hear that. It is, yeah. Tony says, Hienan and Jericho have a lot in common, as they are both blonde-haired liars.
01:05:09
Speaker
Keenan adds they're also both very attractive. Jericho blows kisses to the crowd and acts like they're cheering for him. They are booing. Majorly. He has a microphone and he cuts a quick promo. You know what? You know what? I want you to want me!
01:05:35
Speaker
He's goofy. You know, I always love coming to Denver because there's always thousands of streaming Jericho holics chanting my name similar to right now. And I would like to dedicate today's match to our fallen comrade currently residing in the where they now file Dean Malenko.
01:05:59
Speaker
And Dean, as you're sitting at home on your couch eating potato chips and drinking Coca-Cola, you can be rest assured that you can always live vicariously through me, the real man of 1004 Halt's Daddy-O! Thank you!
01:06:20
Speaker
great little promo there wonderfully sarcastic oh yeah I do I do like the mental image of Dean Malenko just chilling on his couch chugging a Coca-Cola while eating a bag of potato chips oh yeah for sure this is like one of those things you Jesus don't picture but that probably does happen
01:06:40
Speaker
Hienan claims that he saw Malenko the other day in St. Petersburg, Florida. Tony asks about it, then immediately regrets it as Hienan claims that Malenko had a sign saying, will wrestle for food. Tony criticizes Jericho's desire to be called Lionheart, and says that represents perseverance, determination, and hard work, and Jericho doesn't represent any of that.
01:07:06
Speaker
Weirdly as well, Jericho seems not to have a lion, but a saber-toothed tiger on his tights. Maybe it's just an overexaggerated lion, but it definitely looks more saber-toothed. Jericho uses the belt as a mirror to check out his looks. A sign in the crowd reads, Jericho is a wimp, but is misspelled Jericho missing the H. For crap's sake, people, the internet is a thing now. Check your spelling.
01:07:33
Speaker
Jericho shoves Ayakea to the ropes and breaks clean, but Ayakea slugs him. Ayakea repeatedly counters and strikes an angry Jericho, then takes him down with the side headlock. Silverman lectures Ayakea a bit more extensively than the single cheap shot he took seems to deserve. Jericho manages brief escapes, but Ayakea keeps taking him back to the side headlock.
01:07:56
Speaker
The commentators get briefly derailed by discussing the upcoming baseball bat match, but Tony calls their attention back to this one. Tine brings up Jericho's victory over Milenko, and the Ayakea was trained by Milenko himself, so he's avenging his teacher here.
01:08:12
Speaker
Ayakea dodges the charge and shoves Jericho over the top rope, but he skins the cat, only for Ayakea to hit a sliding dropkick to a mid-flip and knock him back outside, then somersault onto him from the apron. Nice. It was nice, yeah.
01:08:27
Speaker
Back in, Iakea keeps working the side headlock, but Jericho gets free, and DropToll holds him throat first onto the ropes, then pins him with one foot on his chest for two. Tony notes that has never worked yet, and he's pretty sure even Jericho doesn't expect it to. Nice touch on a Jericho rear chinlock. He takes time to brace Iakea's arm under his knee, so he can't use that to escape.
01:08:53
Speaker
Jericho slam and he showboats as he goes up top, so Ayakea gets the feet up when he finally dives. Ayakea standing fireman's carry and a springboard somersault splash gets two. Jericho turns a forward roll into the lion tamer, but Ayakea grabs the ropes. Jericho thinks that Ayakea tapped, but Silverman clues him in.
01:09:14
Speaker
Jericho's second rope sunset flip, but Ayakea kneels on top for two and a half. It's a huge awe of disappointment from the crowd there when Jericho kicks out. Ayakea is getting good reactions, though part I'm sure is that the crowd really, really hates Jericho. They fight on the top, but both fall out to the floor.
01:09:34
Speaker
both in and they trade blows. Ayakea counters a Lion Tamer attempt into a pin for two and a half, then a DDT into the Northern Lights suplex for two as Jericho gets the ropes. Jericho gets Ayakea up top, but Ayakea elbows him down and tries a top rope sunset flip, but Jericho rolls through and locks on the Lion Tamer. Ayakea submits, giving Jericho the win.
01:10:01
Speaker
Silverman puts the belt back on Jericho, and he steals Ayakeya's sarong as a trophy, proclaiming it his size. I always wanted a mahi-mahi, Jericho joyfully proclaims. Heenan cheerfully sings Aloha. Thoughts on this one? That was a nice, fast, fun match, I thought. We've got a real peak Jericho heel here, for sure. Yes.
01:10:27
Speaker
What's nice with him and interesting with him is he's not playing like this super confident, super evil heel like some people like to do. He's playing this like weird cartoon character Jericho. Yes. Where he thinks the crowd is cheering for him and they're booing to his face. He thinks the roles fans and they hate him. So he's a different kind of heel which is nice to see.
01:10:51
Speaker
Especially we have the NWBO, we're all grim and, you know, we have people with bats and we're black and everything. Jerker really stands out among that group for sure. This is both a good and a really bad match, I think, for IKEA. I think move-wise, he does really well. With the exception of the one part where they fight on the top rope and they both fall, which I'm still not sure how much that's a bot. I'm not sure how much that was a planned thing. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing on that. It feels like
01:11:20
Speaker
maybe that was a botch because they kind of seem like they might be losing their balance but they recover so fast and so well from it and the commentators talk about it you know just as part of the match storyline so easily that i kind of thought okay maybe that was actually the intent they just struggle hard and fall but but i could see that being a botch too for me i think it's because they move past so quickly and they don't like go back the top where we're doing else like that
01:11:47
Speaker
No. It's like, oh, we messed up. Let's just keep, let's go to the next thing. Yeah, I think it may be just one of those cases where it's a botch, but they handle it really well. Yeah. The landing was awkward for sure. Yeah. Oh yeah. Other than that, IK's move and delivery is really well. But the other thing is that he's a real competent as a performer, but especially when he's with Jericho. Jericho has so much going on and IK just kind of doesn't.
01:12:13
Speaker
not not his ability at all. It's just he doesn't have that sort of extra factor that a lot of wrestlers, you really have to especially in a competitive time like this, we're basically in the attitude era and the midnight wars. There's so many people doing so many outrageous things. And some of them can actually also work like Jericho at this point.
01:12:34
Speaker
So, fortunately, for a guy that can work matches well but just aren't very interesting to watch, it's a negative on you more than it would have been, say, four years ago maybe, or even three, two years ago. Like you say, he doesn't have the huge persona of a guy like Jericho, but he also doesn't have the ability to take a non-persona and make it his persona like his mentor Dean Malenko. Yes. So he's in this middle ground where he doesn't actually
01:13:02
Speaker
get to either angle strongly enough to be notable. Yeah. But he is solid enough to make up the numbers in the cruiserweight division basically. Yeah. He's the sort of guy that you're always going to have a place for him probably, but you're never going to really highlight him. Right.
01:13:19
Speaker
Like, I don't know how they decide who to get promised or whatnot, but given that the Conders mentioned the Blanco connection there with the training, it's a shame we don't get even as a short bit of IKEA mentioned that himself, letting the crowd in on that. Now, I do think he does bring that into his performance tonight, though.
01:13:41
Speaker
He seems much angrier than in earlier matches. I could see that a little edgier in how he he like toes the line much more on the rules and like I said He like cheap shots Jericho at first and everything There's definitely ways that like I aka I think has actually leveled up his character portrayal this year but as you said, he never quite reaches that level of
01:14:04
Speaker
Having his own big character. He's good with portraying emotions. Yeah, but that's only part of an actual character performance Yeah, I would have really liked if they could have given him even just like a 10 20 second quick promo Yes saying you know I was trained by Dean Malenko and Boris Malenko who Jericho had insulted in the build to this as we see on slam Brie as well. Mm-hmm
01:14:27
Speaker
have some good line about, you know, slapping the respect back into him or something. And then go to Matt type normal. That would have helped, I think. Yeah, I think in general on this show, the lack of promos is a little bit surprising and unfortunate in this match, especially. I think it could have done a good bit to highlight the story.
01:14:46
Speaker
As we noted during the match, the crowd hates Jericho. Yeah. I think they're kind of for IKEA, but it feels like a lot of their cheering and booing is because they want to see Jericho lose, not so much because they want to see IKEA win. Exactly. Yeah, I agree with that.
01:15:03
Speaker
The overall match story was good, though. No, agreed. Iikea managed a nice combination of enraged and disciplined, like I was saying. He's showing emotions better here, keeping control of the match while still pushing the limits a bit. But the actual moves, I felt, did get a little bit repetitive. In particular, he just keeps working that same side headlock for a lot of the match. Though at the same time, he never spends too long on the hold, and they keep things moving.
01:15:28
Speaker
Jericho, I agree, plays his character to the hilt and is a wonderful jerk for the entire time he's out there. He's tremendously punchable and I mean that in the best way. They do work in some very nice counter spots and some more complicated concepts in the late stages of the match. And the repeated counters of the lion tamer were cool and also helped build up how bad that hold would be if it got locked on. I immediately counters out. This goes back to what you said earlier on how to use the short hold. Yeah, exactly.
01:15:58
Speaker
I could have done with a little more variety from Iakea, but overall it was quite a nice showing.
01:16:05
Speaker
I had to highlight Chris Jericho's Flying Nothing, the one where he gets booted by IKEA. Yes. Okay, so IKEA is on the ground, and you could do a splash or something, but Jericho just sort of jumps and lands on his feet. Like, what was he going to do? It's like he's going for a double axe handle or something like that. The guy's laying down. It's one of those cases where, like, okay, yes, I know I'm being countered, so I'm not going to go for anything in particular. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:16:32
Speaker
I get that, like, trying to splash and having him hit you would be more painful, but yeah, just like, what would happen if he didn't counter you? You just landed there and, oh, well, I guess I'm doing on. Like, even, like, raise one knee or something, so it looks like you were going for a knee drop, even if you blatantly would not have hit? Sure, yeah, that's fine.
01:16:52
Speaker
Now I'm more confident and with new fashion gear, Jericho would continue to go to the Absinthe Malenko, leading up to the Slamboree show, in which he would introduce all the new creditors for a battle royal, where the winner would then face him. I don't know, it'd be my money on the sequel pay. I just really feel like it's got to be his show. I bet you guys the park is not in it, which really wasn't great when he covered that show. Yes. Yes, I know it was.
01:17:18
Speaker
We cut to the internet table where Lee Marshall is now interviewing Raven, who has a stolen United States title draped on his shoulder.
01:17:34
Speaker
Revenge is a dish best served cold. And tonight in Denver, Paige, there will be no haven. There'll be no sanctuary. There'll be no place for you to hide. You will feel the even flow. Hold the raven.
01:17:52
Speaker
Again, a perfectly good short promo here. I do love him just flat out ignoring Marshall's actual question. And Marshall, again, gives a great annoyed reaction to it. Marshall's actually quite good at these little internet table promo spots in general. He has a lot of good reactions over the shows that we've watched.
01:18:09
Speaker
It's kind of this look of pure disgust on his face. I always wonder with those, like, do they have like a timestamp thing and you're like, okay, we're going to cut to you now. So make sure you're talking about such and such, or did they like pick a bit where that happened and just play that? How mapped out is that? I wonder. Yeah. I mean, I would wager that it's the same as them throwing to like Mean Jean for a promo segment. They're just like, Hey guys, we'll be on you in five or something. And I could see that. Yeah.
01:18:37
Speaker
But yeah, I can see it does, on this show especially, frequently sound like they're in the middle of a conversation. Exactly, yeah. It's not like, oh Raven's here, I'm gonna ask him a question. It's where I've been talking to Raven for five minutes now, believe me. I mean, my soul's eating my body, but I need... Here's this part that has happened while you happen to be here when you show up.
01:18:55
Speaker
But at the same time, Raven then cuts a very standard Raven promo, even ending it with this quote, the Raven-Nevermore line. Right. So to me, it feels like it's a regular promo segment that Lee Marshall is just actually very good at disguising. Could be. To look like he's had a longer discussion, but I could see it the other way too.
01:19:16
Speaker
I'd like to picture, so assuming that it is actually like them just cutting in the middle of a conversation, you picture that, that actually is just, is how Raven ends every statement he makes. It's like Lee Marshall has had a half hour conversation with him where every question Raven has responded with something and then quote the Raven nevermore, quote the Raven nevermore, quote the Raven. It's like, stop it, stop it. I know when they're going to cut to us. I got to make sure I'm ready.
Scott Steiner's Heel Turn
01:19:46
Speaker
Our sixth match is Scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell versus Rick Steiner and Lex Luger with Ted DiBiase. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick. So earlier in the year we had the unfortunate breakup of the Steiner brothers as Scott Steiner would turn on his brother during a tag team title match. I guess then that was back at the NWO.
01:20:10
Speaker
And thus would begin the slow turn to him being this insane, muscular, goatee madman. Yes. That we all know and sometimes love. We mostly love him when he's doing math. That's true, yeah, yeah.
01:20:26
Speaker
Throughout all of this and the time following his turned-in VO, Skystone will be regularly teamed with Buffbag while they're considered natural duo because they both love posing and flexing and I'm guessing sheer supplements and or whatever else they would say they're taking alongside quote-unquote supplements.
01:20:44
Speaker
The other part of the story is that ever since The Betrayal works down an assembly, is upset, and wants to fight his brother, but Scott has constantly been dodging fights with him, and so far this is the closest they've gotten in recent memory to having a match. So Scott's willing to do it as long as Buff is there, and even as we'll see later, he's still not really willing to do it, but he'll at least show up physically for the match if they're together.
01:21:10
Speaker
Buff Bagwell, is this a security blanket? Yeah, yeah. When I read my summary, I wrote that Rick Steiner found an alliance with second tier dubstep hero Luger. Both a compliment and an info, probably, the more I think about it. Especially given that he did briefly win the world title last year. Yeah. As often as that is ignored. NWO theme count? Three.
01:21:35
Speaker
Bagwell and Scott Steiner make their way down to the ring. Bagwell has his right hand wrapped, and Scott tremendously awkwardly kind of braces Bagwell's arm with his shoulder, touching it several times along the way in precisely the sort of way you definitely wouldn't want to do if the hand was actually broken or something because putting such random pressure on it could really, really hurt. Yes, it would. Speaking of experience. Nobody ever let Scott Steiner be your doctor. No.
01:22:02
Speaker
The commentators, as is entirely proper, immediately doubt the Bagwell is hurt at all. Tony says, if any doctor put a cast on like the one Bagwell is wearing, he'd lose his license. Or work for us, heenan jokes. At least I hope he's joking. The cast does look absolutely wretched. Tony notes that even ring announcer Dave Penzer doesn't buy it and, quote, he usually believes anything anybody says. Oh wow.
01:22:32
Speaker
Bagwell grabs Penzer's microphone and, gesturing with his supposedly injured hand the entire time, says Penzer needs to announce that the match is cancelled. Bagwell claims he and Scott did come dressed and ready to wrestle in spite of his injury, but right before he came through the curtain, his lawyer advised him not to wrestle because Commissioner JJ Dillon had sat on a prior show that no injured wrestlers could wrestle without a doctor's release. Scott takes the microphone and says he was ready to wrestle Rick, but Rick didn't want to face him.
01:23:01
Speaker
Not sure how you got that, but okay. Yeah, he didn't say no. You're the ones turning the match down. Yeah. They threaten Penzer to try to get him to cancel the match, as JJ Dylan and Gene Okerlund come down to the ring. Bagwell and Scott try to leave, but Okerlund stops them and asks Dylan to speak. Dylan questions Bagwell about his supposed injury as the commentators mock Bagwell's supposed cast, with Henan saying he's seen a sub-sandwich wrapped better than that.
01:23:31
Speaker
Dylan reluctantly agrees that Bagwell needs a doctor's release, but informs him that for Randy Savage, they flew a leading orthopedic surgeon, Dr. Michael Cappello, to the arena. He brings Cappello in to inspect Bagwell's injury. Bagwell agrees, and Cappello enters, though Scott does kind of half-heartedly protest that they'd prefer an NWO doctor.
01:23:53
Speaker
Cepelo carefully inspects Bagwell's injury, and Bagwell hams it up, faking pain, and finally lets out a yell for unclear reasons. I think maybe Dylan had reached a hand-in again to touch the injury, but it's hard to tell due to the camera being mostly blocked by Dylan at the time. Bagwell angrily grabs Dylan by the tie with his injured hand.
01:24:14
Speaker
Dylan asks if he realizes what he's done, and asks the doctor his opinion. The doctor says he's clear to wrestle, and Bagwell and Scott throw tantrums as Lex Luger's wonderful music hits. Well, that was a bit of a waste of time. It was a little amusing at points, but it didn't really make much sense. No. Luger and Rick enter to Luger's catchy theme. I guess Rick can't really use Steinerized now since that's about both Steiners. They're accompanied by Ted DiBiase.
01:24:43
Speaker
Rick doffs his jacket on the ramp and charges the ring as Tony warns Penzer to get clear. Rick charges for Scott, but Scott flees the ring and Bagwell hits Rick from behind as Luger nails Scott outside, flinging him to the barricades. Bagwell hits a crappy snap mare. A crap mare? Yeah, I'd go with that. Hand strikes. Tony notes Bagwell's hand seems fine, and Hienan sarcastically calls it a miracle.
01:25:09
Speaker
Rick catches a leapfrog and hits a high-angle fireman's carry, then a Steiner line, but Scott escapes Luger and hits Rick from behind. Patrick forces him to his corner. Bagwell and Scott trade tags, wearing Rick down with Bagwell choking, Scott awkward Steiner line, he kinda trips leading into it, and slams and punches. Bagwell stomp gets two, as does a Scott elbow drop. Tony points out that whenever Rick seems to get some energy to fight back, Scott runs to tag Bagwell.
01:25:38
Speaker
Tine notes that Bagwell is the only four-time WSW tag champion with three different partners. Rick pushes for the corner, but a Bagwell poke to the eye stops that. They keep trading off, and Scott hits a crap mare too. This is so exciting. Yeah. Rick counters a Bagwell charge with a huge back body drop that's almost a Soam Owen drop. Even Patrick sells that one.
01:26:08
Speaker
Scott sneaks in, but Rick kicks him away and tags Luger, who runs wild and sells his own clotheslines, sending Scott over the ropes. Luger hits a flying clothesline to Bagwell, if by hits we mean gently brushes Bagwell's hair as he flies by. But Bagwell sells anyway.
01:26:29
Speaker
Luger tries the rack, but Scott grabs him for a Bagwell kick, but Rick Steiner lines the ever-loving crap out of Bagwell. Yes, he does. Rick stares down Scott, so Scott runs the hell away, and Rick gives chase. Heenan jokes that Scott could win the Triple Crown. Buff goes for the Buff Blockbuster, but Rick suddenly returns and shoves Bagwell off the second rope in the nick of time, and Luger puts Bagwell in the torture rack for the submission victory.
01:27:00
Speaker
Tony points out that Rick came back to help Luger, but Scott ran away, and says that seems unlike the NWO. Hienan disagrees, saying the NWO guys only care about themselves. Tony, considering that, says he stands corrected. Thoughts on this one? It sure was a lot of nothing. Yeah.
01:27:23
Speaker
The thing with this match, which is really weird to me, is that they spend, I don't know, I didn't actually time it, but it feels they spend at least, it felt like 10 minutes or so, with all this doctor nonsense and drawing out the start of the actual match. They sort of treat the match to like, if that was all action, they book like the inside of the match like that.
01:27:43
Speaker
Except like five of that was, again, the nonsense with the doctor and the hand wrap and all that stuff. So we have like the hope spot of escaping with your tag bit after like 40 seconds into the match or something. Yeah. It's like way, way too soon.
01:27:59
Speaker
This is almost like before you have a big Matt HyperView, you'll have like trial versions of the match, workout, how the matches are going to go, but you're not going to do the roll roll big spot because you're saving like the big drops or slams for the cameras. Right. So you're sort of working out the basis of a match. And then, you know, you're going to go on Spring Stampede and that work a big, high impact, exciting tag team match.
01:28:23
Speaker
Except we got the practice match. Yeah. And not the actual match. They got it backwards. Felt exactly the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. The House Show fans got a really great match we didn't get. That or they just don't care. Yeah. I felt like like the Bulldog Henig match earlier, this is more angled than match. Yeah. But that doesn't free you up from having to make whatever part of a match you've got entertaining. And they pretty well fail that here.
01:28:51
Speaker
There's nothing to this but Bagwell and Scott landing very basic strikes and chokes to Rick. They do build to the tag to Luger just fine, and Scott handles the story of being unwilling to truly face Rick quite well. The character side of things is perfectly fine here. It's just that the action is almost entirely uninteresting. They don't put on any cool holes, they don't use any neat suplexes. This is a Steiner's match. It's just punching and choking and chin locks.
01:29:18
Speaker
has really seemed like something that could have been done for a few minutes on Nitro, or like you said, on a house show, not on pay-per-view. Like you pointed out, it's the build to a more interesting match, not the interesting match itself. Exactly. Like I said, if I, you know, this was 1998 and I attended a WCP house show,
01:29:35
Speaker
I could see them promising you with this tag team match and then Steinerbag will work in the crowd and then Dylan comes out and do all that and then you get a short version of the match and you know, oh, because next Sunday they're going to have the big match. We just got the practice. Right. So yeah, that's the best reason for this, but the more latter reason just they didn't want to work a long match for some reason. Didn't feel like it. I don't know. It's pretty disappointing.
01:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with you. I think it's a pretty disappointing one, considering at least three of the four people involved, and even, like, Buff has his moments, you know? Yeah. All of them seem like they should be capable of putting on a better match than this, and I don't know why they aren't. I know we've talked about before Scott Steiner never seems entirely right in his heel roll. Mm-hmm.
01:30:27
Speaker
He manages the personality side of it fine, but he kind of seems to think that being a heel is about being slow and not doing interesting things. To some extent, or at least pausing for a long time between interesting things. And this is very early in his heel run, obviously, so it might explain part of it that he just doesn't know what's okay to do. Maybe he's afraid he'll get cheered if he does his cool suplexes or things like that. But it just doesn't really work.
01:30:53
Speaker
not something we could put on any one guy, honestly. It's really all four of them. Something is not right with this. You raise a good point. It really seems like this is their prep match. Let's figure out how we're going to do it, figure out the outline, and then we'll stick in the interesting stuff to this basic outline, but they just haven't gotten beyond that.
01:31:15
Speaker
This is one of those bad matches, or at least disappointing matches, that also retroactively affects another match in a negative way even more. This tag match goes like, what, four and a half minutes total? Yeah, it's like four to five minutes. Yeah, yeah. Half of this match is Lex Luger and Buff Bagwall. Right. We had them on another show we already covered. That's true. Where they go like, what, 20 minutes?
01:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, they shouldn't have. So like, hey Lex, you can beat him in like less than four minutes and you didn't on that show? Yeah, please do that next time. Yeah, thanks buddy. Actually, you realize that he beat him in like two minutes because he didn't tag in until the end of the match. Right, yes. It was just super easy, barely an inconvenience to beat him up by a wall.
01:32:00
Speaker
Speaking of Luger, he would, of course, wrestle Bryan Adams on the next review continuing the Lex Luger fights people that are important in the NWO, but not that important to the NWO story. The other part I gotta talk about is interesting. On the Thunder following this, we got a rematch of sorts. Sadly, it's not the exciting version of the tag match we were hoping.
01:32:22
Speaker
So we get a tag match involving Rick Steiner and Lex Luger back together against Buff Bagwell and Scott Norton. Ooh, switched on you. Okay. With of course Scott Steiner hanging around. So the finish involves Buff is in the inside of the ring, he's been beaten up.
01:32:40
Speaker
Rick Steiner goes a second rope to his bulldog. On the outside of the ring, Scott Norden grabbed a chair and is about to hit Rick Steiner while his back's turned, how he's intercepted and stopped by, of all people, Scott Steiner. And you're like, whoa, that's where he stopped his guy from attacking his brother. Maybe he's not so bad after all.
01:32:58
Speaker
Rick Steiner then uninterrupted, does the bulldog to Buck Bagwell, whereupon while the referee is still distracted by what's happened, Scott Steiner then runs in and hits Rick Steiner with the chair afterwards. So he just wanted to do it himself. Correct.
01:33:12
Speaker
And he rolls but bag over for the ref to count the pin. However, it becomes very apparent, unfortunately, that Buff is not doing so well. Oh, gosh, that's when it happens, huh? Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. So basically what happens is, yeah, Brickstarr's move is a jumping bulldog. So basically you jump with a guy, you should grab him in a headlock as you go, and they fall with you. That's the gist of how his version works anyways.
01:33:37
Speaker
For whatever reason, things just go wrong. So what happens is Rick jumps and does get the headlock part, but for a reason, Buff slips out of his grasp.
01:33:50
Speaker
So he falls forward and does his normal, you know, butt bump landing on the ring. Bagwell's head is not going forward with him, so it's behind him. So basically, he runs into the back of Rick Steiner. Oh, go. Because the movement still goes, but he's not controlled. Mmm. So forward.
01:34:09
Speaker
It's not super obvious at first. The nouns are confused as to why it's not moving. He's selling the bulldog more than you expect. Yeah. Because he's a bit injured. He's not moving around and he eventually does the signal that we're free and people nearby. It gets to the point where even people that are just fighting him like Lex and Rick are there looking on and making sure he gets taken care of. Yeah.
01:34:32
Speaker
Oh man, so that's that moment. Gah. Yeah. Two, three days after this show. Yeah. Geez. Thankfully, both Bagwell was not paralyzed and not really, really severely injured. He would be out till about July to come back and view this storyline to a certain degree with Rick and Scott Stoner. Yeah. It's fortunate that he would not hurt worse.
01:34:52
Speaker
one of those freak accidents, but yeah, thankfully he wasn't put out permanently or even killed or anything. It is another reminder that this is a very dangerous art. Even with people that know what they're doing very well in it, things can happen.
01:35:08
Speaker
Yeah. Autics has one sip like that and then that basic move that anyone could do to someone else just becomes dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how many times have we seen a bulldog done on these shows, but any move can be dangerous if there's a slip up in the middle of it. Exactly. Yeah. Just very thankful that he was okay. Yeah.
01:35:30
Speaker
Tony throws to main Gene Okerlund, who stands in front of the barn entrance set. Gene shows the hotline, talking about tradition and a mysterious individual who showed up and an NWO member that might reappear in the near future. 1-900-909-9900. Whammy guitar music hits, leading to our next match.
La Parca vs Psychosis Match
01:35:50
Speaker
So our seventh match is...
01:35:53
Speaker
La Parca versus Psychosis in a special unadvertised match. The referee for this one is Charles Robinson.
01:36:04
Speaker
What they try to build up, and what little loop there is, is that the Lucidors mainly work these six-man, eight-man matches, which have lots of flips and crazy dives. So Lucid tag rules basically state that if you're the legal man in the ring, and you, say, do a jumping double somersault to the outside on a bunch of people out there, that counts as a tag along someone else taking your place. Yeah, basically, if you leave the ring, your tag partner can come in. Exactly, yeah.
01:36:33
Speaker
LaParca has not exactly been the greatest of teammates. He'll often get into a fight for the teammates and cross the matches one way or another. One of the recurring partners this keeps happening with, some degree directly or indirectly, is psychosis. And they sort of imply that there's some more to the feud that we don't know about, but we also don't know it, so it doesn't really count. Right, yeah.
01:36:57
Speaker
You look at so many points for applying something you're not actually going to explain. That doesn't count if you just say that there's a story, right? Man, if you knew what was really going on, you'd be impressed. Yeah. Could you tell me? Yeah? Okay. La Parca, wrestling's Skeletor, comes down to the ring playing air guitar on a steel chair and dancing. This is the first time that we have had La Parca in a match, Al. I know. How does it feel? Feels amazing.
01:37:26
Speaker
Feels great. And even more special, he's not even in his standard white skeleton outfit, but he's in a yellow skeleton outfit. I know. Did he ever ever red one out? Oh, of course he did. Oh, okay, yeah. That would have been a good choice. According to Castlevania, you could never permanently defeat him then. Oh. They just keep getting back up. Well, he's still resting to this day, so I guess it worked. Yeah, there you go.
01:37:49
Speaker
His opponent, Psychosis, has music that sounds like the middle-level stage music in a side-scrolling brawler game. It's like a stage set in a casino or maybe a CD bar district? Yeah, I can do that, sure, sure. The commentators discuss the fact that these two have been tag partners, but Leparka has frequently attacked Psychosis with his chair after matches, regardless of the result. Leparka asks Psychosis to kindly move aside so he can do a little dance, annoying Psychosis.
01:38:18
Speaker
La Parka spits at psychosis while wearing a full face mask. Yeah. It's a thought that counts. That could not have been pleasant afterwards. Psychosis charges, but Parka knees him and slaps him, dances, and uses a, shall we say, slang word in Mexico for coward? Yeah. And other things? Yeah.
01:38:41
Speaker
Psychosis shows Leparka up on a running sequence, then slaps him hard in return. Parka sends Psychosis to the apron on a charge, but Psychosis vaults over the ropes for a great head-scissor takedown. On another charge, and Parka sends Psychosis up top, but he springs off with a Hurricanrana. Parka rolls out, but eats a suicide dive over the top rope. Parka back in, and he beckons to Psychosis, who lunges in, but Parka boots him in the knee just as he's climbing in.
01:39:10
Speaker
Rapid counters lead to a parka closed-line for two. Parka to the apron, and he bodies his psychosis outside, then hits a springboard moonsault. Tenay claims it was split-legged. It was not. Yeah, his legs are stationary. Parka rolls psychosis in for two, then gets two off a snap suplex, but psychosis counters parka charges and puts parka up top.
01:39:34
Speaker
only for Parka to knock him back out to the floor. Parka does a dance on the second turnbuckle, as you do. Psychosis back up, and Parka tries a kick, but Psychosis catches it, waggles his finger, and crotches La Parka on the top rope. Psychosis springboard Frankensteiner, but he nearly loses his balance and Parka visibly has to help him keep his balance. Yes. It gets two and a half. Tony says they need to come up with a new name for that now because Scotsteiner's a jerk.
01:40:05
Speaker
Psychosis drop-kicks Leparka out and follows with an amazing twisting corkscrew moonsault. But back in, Leparka dobs as a top rope splash for two and hits an Alabama slam for two, pulling Psychosis up both times. Hienan and Tene are perplexed. Psychosis counters a parka powerbomb, parka bomb? Yeah. With a Hurricane Rana for two.
01:40:30
Speaker
parka yells at robinson but then wastes time posing on the ropes so psychosis drop kicks him in the legs he falls and gets caught in the ropes but momentarily slips free and puts his legs back on the ropes yeah psychosis hits a guillotine leg drop for the three count and the win psychosis poses in victory and tony says la parka needs to rethink his strategy we get replays of psychosis suicide dive and guillotine leg drop thoughts on this one
01:41:01
Speaker
That was a pretty good match. Obviously, given the nature of it being a purely Lucian match, it's a bit spotty, which is being generous, for sure. There's a lot of moments where cooperation is pretty clear, like the bit where Psychosis is going into the ring, then the handhold flip in, and at night's a parker did not let go, so he doesn't just fall out.
01:41:25
Speaker
the Frankensteiner bit is the most notable part. And to be fair, it is very clear that psychosis actually did just lose its balance. Oh, yeah. And that's why it stands out so much that they're helping each other on that one. I think if the spot had gone as planned, it would have looked a little more natural. But yeah, no, it's not the worst thing in the world. But yeah, it gives the way to game a little bit for sure. Yes.
01:41:47
Speaker
I will say, putting aside my obvious envoy level, the parka, I actually enjoyed that he did more than just being another quote unquote, another lucha guy and just, you know, the flips and, you know, the running moves because you see a lot of his character in this match. He's very aggressive and disrespectful to say the least. Yes. At the beginning.
01:42:10
Speaker
He really plays the power game, which he often has to do in six fan matches to stand out from the guys that can do a lot of the creative thing move that he can do, but he doesn't have to do as much.
01:42:22
Speaker
Obviously there's a bit of a problem with the ending because yeah, he's supposed to be stuck in the ropes. To his credit, he tries to cover like he's trying to pull himself up rather than just dropping down and moving your legs free, which would have been a lot easier. He does about as good a job with that as you could do considering what happened. Yeah.
01:42:41
Speaker
I can't think of another way that you could cover that, that is better than that. You're kind of stuck with what happened and you have to get yourself back in position because the guy's about to go for the move. So you just kind of have to go with it. No, for sure. And the other thing, to be fair with the parquet, is that because he's so tall, especially, again, by lucha standards,
01:43:03
Speaker
There's a tricky part of that finish, so once you hit the move, he's right next to the ropes. There's no getting around it. So if he'd moved his right leg even a quarter of an inch, he would have had rope break. That's fair, yeah.
01:43:17
Speaker
I guess you can argue that it's not a pinning move. It's like a knockout blow, so it's hit him so forcefully. He's just out. Yeah, yeah. So you can't really use it, but yeah, it's WW, so they have the camera and go like really close. Like at his legs, you can see just how close his leg is to the ropes, unfortunately.
01:43:36
Speaker
Going back to him, I do like what he does a lot character-wise. The match is a little held together at points with some loose screws, let's say, but it was enjoyable for what it was, especially given that there's no storyline built on the show or promos or anything for it. A special and advertised match, as they say. Yes. Yeah, this was the first La Parca match we've gotten.
01:43:59
Speaker
And it was good. It told a very nice story, I thought, and I appreciated the differences between the two Luchadors. Leparka, like you noted, played a very good bruiser character. He could still pull off traditional lucha acrobatics. Well, Psychosis played a great acrobatic character that could also trade heavier blows when needed. So each kind of had a specialty, but was also able to work in the other's domain.
01:44:23
Speaker
It really felt like an uphill battle for a psychosis with him having to take risks to wear down the more resilient and stronger Leparka. But Leparka's inability to take his opponent seriously repeatedly gave psychosis openings he needed.
01:44:36
Speaker
parka actually breaking his own pins maybe went a bit too far with it one one would work i think yeah one would work the twos a little bit like he should break one get punished for it and then realize he needs to take him seriously yeah but otherwise they did a very good job with their story for the short time that they had so yeah some minor flubs on a mover to a side and some points where maybe the veil is broken a little bit my side it's a very fun watch
01:45:03
Speaker
There's always a little bit in my experience with luchador heavy matches of you being able to see the puppet strings, I guess, a little bit, see behind the curtain a little bit. But that's the price for getting some truly elaborate and interesting spots. So you go from watching a simulated fight at times to a ballet, but it's a very good ballet.
01:45:27
Speaker
Right. There's a balance with pro wrestling of being like a stunt show. And sometimes the stunt shows are really transparent about, you know, you see the guy jump before the explosion and that kind of stuff. Right. Other times it's just a seamless show and you don't notice any of that.
01:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think your mileage may vary on whether you would prefer them to do less intricate things and be able to pull it off as more realistic, or whether you think that the intricacy and complexity that they're able to add is worth seeing behind the curtain a little bit too much. Yeah. Deep down, I'm still looking at hope that we'll do the, assuming it's on the new version of the network, that Festival de Lucha pilot they made.
01:46:12
Speaker
even though it's like eight matches and all but one of them are six to eight man tag matches. I may force you to write the match recap. But if that is on there, I will admit I'd like to see it.
01:46:28
Speaker
I think it is a coincidence a little bit. It's kind of funny to note that on the go home nitro Booker T and the parker had a match. It went to the parker challenge of the TV title and obviously didn't win it. So on the nitro following this, the TV title matches between Booker T and psychosis. Oh, okay. It was also pretty good. But it's kind of funny. Like is that, did you plan that or did you just book these matches in a row and didn't think about it? They, uh, they book in the match. Yeah. Yeah. And then Booker uses that as a finisher. That's very true. Yes. I saw that coming a mile away, by the way.
01:46:59
Speaker
I hate you thought he snuck that on me. You did not sneak that on. I knew that was not particularly sneaky, but I had to be done. Okay, good. Thank you, sure. Tony calls Colorado one of the greatest sports cities in the world, praising the success of the various teams. Hienan taps him on the shoulder. Nuggets, Hienan says, and gives a thumbs down. Three out of four is not bad, Tony concedes.
01:47:26
Speaker
He builds up Sting vs. Savage for Sting's world title, and says, Sting has agreed to a lot of conditions in his matches lately that aren't in his favor, including the no-DQ skip tonight, and insisting the powerbomb be reinstated before a match against Kevin Nash earlier. T'Nay agrees, questioning what's on Sting's mind. Heenan says Savage is even more dangerous when he's hurt, and he'd rather be in a match with him when he's 100% than when he's hurt because a wounded animal is more dangerous.
01:47:56
Speaker
Tony turns to the bat match and asks about strategy and motivations. If Nash gets the bat, believe and try to win the match or just go after Hogan. Hienan says there seems to be friction between Nash and Hogan, but you just don't know, it could be an act. Tony reluctantly agrees, as does Denae. Tony says they've seen the NWO do a lot of dastardly things, and Hienan cuts him off, saying he's tired of listening to him, and throws to the next segment.
01:48:28
Speaker
Tony asks him if he wants to go to the truck to direct and leave them alone and he says he hears anybody can direct as we fade to our next match while they bicker.
Baseball Bat on a Pole Match
01:48:37
Speaker
So our eighth match is Hollywood Hogan and Kevin Nash versus Rowdy Roddy Piper and the Giant in a baseball bat on a pole match. Referee for this one is Billy Silverman.
01:48:55
Speaker
There's a bit of power struggle going between the two unofficial leaders of the group, that being Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan.
01:49:03
Speaker
Obviously, Scott Hall would be there, but Scott Hall is literally not there, because they're discussing the slam-breeze show. It kind of vanishes for a while. While holding the tag titles, by the way. It's real great. So yeah, they're both trying to be in charge, and obviously they're any savage stuff is causing a split between them. So there's a brief period of time where Buddy Piper is made interim commissioner because J.D. Dillon is kayfabe-injured.
01:49:26
Speaker
So while he's commissioner, Piper sets up this match figuring that he can team them together and their infighting will tear the individual apart. And plus he wants to be Hogan up, so he gets the giant on his side. The bat aspect comes into play multiple times throughout Nitro and Thunder, even involving Sting's bat, among others, which is kind of strange.
01:49:50
Speaker
On the go-home nitro, Piper would show off his advantage of the reason why he picked Giant by riding the Giant's shoulder mecha-shiva style to the ring for a promo, which generally includes riding his shoulder the whole way down, which means while he climbs up the steps and while he climbs over the top rope,
01:50:12
Speaker
Piper sort of jokingly, probably half jokingly, half seriously, sells that he was scared for a second, like, that I'm so relieved sort of face he makes. But then they cut the promo like this whole time.
01:50:24
Speaker
Originally, it's Okun's trying to talk to him and hold the mic up high enough. Eventually, he just takes it and holds it to his own mouth. He cuts the entire promo on his shoulders? Yes. Oh my gosh, that sounds awesome. Yeah. It's shown so much in close-up on him, which kind of ruins the effect a bit. But towards the end, they just sit down. But yeah, there's a long promo where he's talking about what he's going to do and how he's going to win this match because he's got the giant on his side.
01:50:49
Speaker
man. I know the giant is obviously a big dude, thus the giant. Yes. And very, very strong. But even for him, that's dang impressive. Yeah. Like carrying a guy all the way down the entrance ramp up the steps into the ring and standing there with him on your shoulders for the duration of a promo. That is a feat of strength. Oh, for sure. 100%. Wow.
01:51:15
Speaker
So, in this match, a pole is elevated from one of the ring posts, high up in the air, and a baseball bat dangles from the very top of it. The match, however, is oddly contested like it's a normal tag match, except that the bat's legal if you can get to it. Yeah. So, it's not a tornado tag match. It's a standard tag match. Yes. That feels a little bit strange for this, right? Very, very yes.
01:51:39
Speaker
Also, it's a little odd that, as you kind of mentioned, this is a baseball bat match that does not involve the man who uses a baseball bat more often than anybody in this period. Correct. Sting is associated with the baseball bat more than anyone since mid-96 and is not a part of this match. It's a little bit strange. It'd be like having a weightlifting belt on a pole match and Hogan's not there. Right, yeah.
01:52:07
Speaker
NWO theme count? Four. Yep. Kevin Nash comes out on his own, doing baseball batter poses on the entrance ramp. A sign in the crowd reads, Big Sexy Hollywood Slayer. The fans definitely don't think the dissension is an act, anyway. Tony notes the different theme songs that the two have. Nash uses standard NWO, while Hogan uses a version of Jimi Hendrix's Voodoo Child.
01:52:35
Speaker
The very tall Kevin Nash brilliantly demonstrates just how high up the bat is by climbing up the turnbuckles momentarily to indicate that even he still can't reach it, and complaining to Silverman about the height. Pretty excellent use of Nash's height to emphasize the theme there. Heenan says he thought a bat match would be about Mean Jean's ex-girlfriends fighting. Tony gets a good chuckle out of that that apologizes.
01:53:02
Speaker
On the original broadcast, Hogan came out to Voodoo Child, as Tony indicated, but this is on Peacock, so NWO theme count, five. Yeah. Curse you, Peacock. It's funny to have the switch out of themes highlighted so clearly for once. Yeah, right. Announcer David Penzer says that Hogan's accompanied to the ring by Bischoff, but he's not, as Tony points out. Yeah.
01:53:28
Speaker
On the Peacock version, there's some awkward audio as they cut in entrance camera audio for just a moment so we can hear Hogan say, I'm the man, before silencing that again so we don't hear music they'd have to pay extra for. Tony and Hienan wonder where Bischoff is as we occasionally do hear quick little snatches of Voodoo Child through the overdubbed NWO theme. Hogan and Nash have some words as Hogan gets in, but they do seem to be getting along so far.
01:53:54
Speaker
Their opponents, Piper and the Giant, which sounds like a children's fairy tale film, both come out to Piper's Bagpipes theme, which I suspect is less because they're a cohesive team and more because Giant has no theme song anyway. Today he says only a demented individual like Piper, and he means that in the nicest way, could come up with a match like this, and this is Piper's match. I wish he kept the special collar match instead. Bad trade.
01:54:25
Speaker
Hogan tells the Giant not to mess with him because Giant's got enough problems with Nash. Piper swiftly starts climbing the pole while Hogan and Nash are still talking. Hogan runs to stop Piper while Nash bemusedly looks on and climbs out to the apron. Hogan and Nash trade off beating up Piper. Piper revives, so Hogan tries a back rake. Sure, that'll do it. Oh yeah.
01:54:49
Speaker
Piper punches, and I poke, but a blinded Hogan accidentally goes to Giant's Corner, where he receives not a tag, but a headbutt. Piper pulls Hogan's hair, and heenan jokes it won't take long for him to pull all of it out. An ill-advised Piper headbutt dazes him, too, and Hogan whips him with his weight belt, then tries for the bat, but Piper tags Giant, who drags Hogan down and whips him with his own belt, then spanks him. Yeah, that happened. Mm-hmm. It did.
01:55:20
Speaker
Nash gets in to stop that, but Piper and Giant drive the NWO guys outside. Piper and Giant celebrate rather than, you know, going for the bat. Yeah, you know. Piper drags Hogan back in with the belt, and belt clotheslines him for two. Giant asks for the tag, but Piper goes back for Hogan, but gets slugged in the balls. He does, perhaps the best sell of a ball shot ever.
01:55:45
Speaker
His legs slowly go weak and he kind of crumples to one side. It's pretty good, yeah. I really wish they got a shot of his face during that because I'm sure his expression was gold. Right, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, giant bellows. Tag to Nash, but he lets Piper stand and points to Giant. The crowd roars, so Piper tags Giant.
01:56:13
Speaker
we get an excellent shot of Giant and Nash going face-to-face, showing off their sheer size. Giant's strength overwhelms Nash, but he manages to get a boot up on a charge and lands big strikes and a boot choke. Piper, for his back by Silverman, audibly calls Nash a son of a bitch. Hogan sneaks in some choking, and Nash clotheslines a reeling Giant down. But Giant gets right back up.
01:56:40
Speaker
Hogan gestures wildly to catch Nash's attention, making sure folks in the nosebleed section know what's going on. Really, really funny to watch that, actually. Nash and Giant do perhaps the best version of the simultaneous big boot that I've ever seen. It's a tricky spot, yeah. Yeah, they both clearly, clearly make contact with each other, where normally it kind of looks more like they kicked past each other.
01:57:06
Speaker
Silverman gets to nine before Giant tags Piper and Nash tags Hogan. Piper wins a slugfest, but Hogan pushes him to the NWO corner and turns away, expecting Nash to grab him. Nash does not, so Piper escapes and beats up Hogan.
01:57:22
Speaker
Nash comes in, but Piper Mule kicks him in the crotch. He then blames it on Piper's trick knee. Everybody in, and Giant lands the mother of all drop kicks to Nash, sending him out to the floor. Holy crap, that looks solid. Just absolutely incredible to watch that. Piper Sleeper on Hogan.
01:57:44
Speaker
Piper, assisted by Giant, gets the bat, but Nash beats up Giant, and Hogan grabs the bat, but throws it away. Hogan's compatriot, the disciple, otherwise known as Ed Leslie, otherwise known as the man with no name, otherwise known as the Butcher, Brother Rutai, and a billion other things. Yeah, maybe you're all day of doing that. Yeah. Comes to Ringside with his own bat, which he gives to Hogan, who hides it behind his back.
01:58:11
Speaker
Why? Yeah. Is this even a DQ match? No. Unless only that one bat was legal. I guess maybe that's the idea. I don't know. Hogan KOs giant with the bat and Nash holds Piper for Hogan who aims for Piper's surgically repaired hip. But Piper escapes and Hogan nails Nash. Hienan actually sells that almost as loud as Nash. Oh yeah.
01:58:37
Speaker
Piper beats up Hogan with the bat and knocks him out of the ring, then clubs Nash and chases Hogan. Hogan begs for mercy, but Disciple has the actual match bat. He grabs Piper's bat and flings the match bat to Hogan, and Hogan clubs Piper with the match bat for the three count and the win. Snarkly, Tenay proclaims that a victory for the team of Hogan, Nash, and the Disciple.
01:59:03
Speaker
Silverman raises Hogan's hand, but Nash won't join in. Nash glares at Hogan, angry about the inadvertent shot. Tony says he's pretty sure Hogan didn't mean to strike Nash, but he doesn't care, he wants to see them fight. He then agrees. Hogan swears he didn't mean to do it, and gets Nash to go for a jackknife powerbomb on the giant. Then, when Nash turns his back to do so, Hogan clubs Nash with the baseball bat, knocking him out.
01:59:32
Speaker
Giant awakens, and Hogan freezes. Giant slowly turns, glares at him, and roars, and Hogan gets the hell out of the ring as fast as he possibly can, dropping the baseball bat in the process. Giant picks it up and snaps it like a twig, as Hogan and the Disciple flee.
01:59:52
Speaker
Giant checks on Piper, who explains the nefarious deeds that happened, and Giant calmly says that Hogan will pay, then turns to the ramp and roars after the fleeing Hogan, you're gonna pay. Holy crap, that's gonna haunt my nightmares. Giant and Piper walk up the ramp, leaving the unconscious Nash in the ring.
02:00:15
Speaker
NWO theme count six, as we get replays of Giant spanking Hogan, Hogan accidentally clubbing Nash in the gut, and Hogan hitting Piper for the win. Presumably that NWO theme might also have originally been Voodoo Child? I'm guessing since it's celebrating Hogan's. If anyone would make sure their theme gets played, it's Hogan. Yeah. Tony says the most important hit of the match was the one after the match, and points out Vincent and Scott Norton helping Nash up in the ring.
02:00:43
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? It's a weird one for me, because I honestly didn't like it that much. It's so much silly, so much pantomime, like you mentioned. The trade-off, though, is that the live crowd is like super into this match. Oh, God, yeah, they're loving it. To me, like the dumbest, silliest things get the biggest reaction. So it's like, OK, interesting. We've talked about this before on some other shows, and I think it's a good house show match. Yes, for sure.
02:01:11
Speaker
It has so many spots for the crowd to react to. So react to it, they do. I think it actually would be a very, very fun match to be there for. Yeah. It's kind of like people talked about with like a blindfold match. They're really not exciting to watch on pay-per-view, but like if you're in the crowd, you can look into it. You can like try to warn them or something like that. Yeah. Audience participation. Exactly. Yeah. So seeing one of those as being in the crowd is more interesting than watching any of those.
02:01:41
Speaker
So the whole idea is that they have to climb this very long and dangerous pole that's way too high up there to get the bat. And what, a non-factor in 80% of the match? Probably more than that. Yeah, they don't use the bat stipulation very much at all. It's weird. I think it's something I would criticize about this, yeah. Yeah. And there's a whole misdirection thing where Hogan throws out the regular bat because the disciple brought a different bat out.
02:02:08
Speaker
I was waiting for, like, the reveal of what's different about it, like... Like, did it have a metal core or something? Yeah, right. That's the invocation, I think. They should've done, like, a thing where, like, they pulled it off and, like, look what we did, ha ha! Like, you'll do, like, when they do the, um, someone's hit with a bag or a purse and someone goes down way more than you think they would. And as the heels will go up the ramp, they open the purse and reveal bricks inside of it. Right, yeah. You're like, oh, so, yeah, with the payoff, it works.
02:02:34
Speaker
I think you don't get that partially because it's actually not their extra bat that downs Piper in the end. It is the original match bat. That's true. The extra bat downs Giant though. Right. So maybe they need the, I guess, stronger bat to take out the Giant? They bring out the bat composed of depleted uranium to take out the Giant. Yeah. You got to use the poison bat called poison bat obviously to take out the Giant. Oh, I wonder if anyone else knows that reference.
02:03:02
Speaker
I kind of hope they do, but I also hope they don't. And the finish, so it's so overly complicated with this misdirection with the two different bats and throwing it in and out. Like you have to trick the referee, which you don't. And of course, Hoegen, LOL Hoegen wins, you know. And it's like these matches don't really matter. But of course, don't worry, we have to have Hoegen win because of some shenanigans with two different bats and outside interference and a match with no DQ, as far as we can tell.
02:03:32
Speaker
It's bizarre. I'm gonna slightly disagree with you, I think. Okay. I rather enjoyed this one. I do think this was better than it had any right to be. Okay. It doesn't have a lot of variety, and I agree it barely uses the bat stipulation for most of it, but there's really, really strong character work by all four men, and it's mixed with a honestly interesting NWO dissension storyline that changes up some of the usual heal double team spots.
02:03:59
Speaker
like the point where Hogan clearly expects Nash to grab Piper, but Nash just leaves him alone. That helped keep it entertaining and it didn't really overstay its welcome. Giant and Nash were good choices for inclusion as their very dramatic showdown in the middle served as a very good advertisement for a future singles match.
02:04:17
Speaker
So for what it was, this was quite fun. In the ending, I thought it actually was pretty interesting. I actually thought that ending spot in particular was very smoothly done, much more than I would expect to be saying, given that it involves the disciple.
02:04:33
Speaker
And it left us in a very interesting storyline place with the NWO and Disarray just as they've made their opponents even angrier. I actually think you needed Hogan or Nash to win this one, to get the storyline there. You needed them to win and tick off the other one.
02:04:50
Speaker
So it could have been Nash doing the same thing, but I think it works better for Hogan to do it actually because that makes him the bigger heel of the two, which sets Nash on his path to becoming the kind of sort of not actually heel that is the Wolfpack version of him. So for me, this happened the way that it needed to happen.
02:05:10
Speaker
I think this match for me is one, like, if you're so in sections, like, oh, it's kind of funny. Oh, let's just show down as a leader. This bit here is good. I think for me, the whole thing together was a bit much. But yeah, I can see there's strong points in the match for sure. Yeah, I can see that. I think I just ended up being able to just kind of get in that mindset and like the live crowd clearly is, just be like, okay, this is silly, but it's fun, silly.
02:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think it gets to that more often than I thought it would, but yeah, I didn't quite get to reword, but I might, if I watch it again later, it might feel differently. Obviously, there's tension between Hogan and Nash after all this, which we'll play more a factor in the show later, and I'll cover some of that for the main event part. As far as the old giant wants to destroy the interview thing, before the next pay-per-view, he would join the interview-o. Yeah. So, yeah, so much for that.
02:06:07
Speaker
Again, there's frequently things after a show that kind of let down an interesting ending, but I'm not gonna hold that against the existing show. Oh, no, I get that. The fact that they screw up their angle after Spring Stampede does not mean the Spring Stampede's angle was bad. No, I get that. I can see that. Sure. As we get an extreme close-up of Kidman and Raven's flock in the crowd, Tony throws to an ad for Slamboree.
02:06:36
Speaker
Funnily enough, that's right where Peacock has placed an ad, so Tony threw to a State Farm ad for me.
02:07:15
Speaker
It's good to know that there's not going to be any more misfortune.
02:07:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. We're back to pretty standard ads after last year's really brilliant one. Not that this was bad, it just didn't do anything special to stand out. The choral music was kind of neat, though. Bit over the top, perhaps, but... Yeah. It's like a... it's like a Starrcade. The... nothing will be the same ever again kind of ad. Right. It's... it's kind of... Slippery98 has a few important things happen on it, as I recall, but...
02:07:47
Speaker
Again, it goes back to what we discussed way back when we did our Starrcade wrap-up, that everyone calls Starrcade, WCW as WrestleMania, but I'm not sure it ever actually was. So you get other shows throughout the year kind of getting built up even more than Starrcade at points. And it also goes to something that WCW likes to do, which is sell every last thing as the biggest thing that's ever happened, or in the Tony Schiavone terms, the greatest night in the history of our sport.
02:08:13
Speaker
yes obviously you want to advertise the show and make it sound like it's going to be important even if you don't know that you're putting anything important on it so be that as it may but it is a little sad to have a bit of a come down from last year's uh really nice commentators talking up the threat of the nWo bit oh yeah for sure we go back to the ring for our ninth match
Raven vs DDP Rivalry
02:08:38
Speaker
which is Diamond Dallas Page versus Raven in a Ravens Rules match for Page's WCW United States Heavyweight Championship currently stolen by Raven. Referee for this one is Mark Curtis.
02:08:54
Speaker
So in the recent past, Raven has been a couple of different matches against DDP, as mentioned before, one or two involving Benoit, which are quite good as I recall. He has not been able to rest the title off from DDP's hands. So he does the next best thing, which is attack DDP on, of all things, MTV TRL. Okay. Yes, I posted a clip to our Facebook page, a cheap plug there.
02:09:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's a weird clip where DDP's on just promoting wrestling in general, Carson Daly, the host at this point, and Dave Grohl, the Foo Fighters is there, like between the two of them, which is kind of funny, DPs, there with his belt, and then you're talking to Dave Grohl. Presumably having a wonderful discussion about their respective musical influences. Raven's cutting a promo on a television they have in there, and doing his usual Raven stuff about What About Me, all of that.
02:09:48
Speaker
after he stopped talking something appears behind him on the couch and hits him with a stop sign with DDP cells like super cartoonishly like he could picture the little bird over his head and like his arms and legs nice numb and poor person daily and uh the world don't seem like they were expecting this to happen
02:10:08
Speaker
like they move out of frame and there's sort of like an awkward sort of laughing initially because like wait what what's happening here and as if sort of to silence that Raven grabs DP and giving the even flow sort of to the table mostly you know himself to the table yes and then leave with the belt this this happened like two weeks before the show so he's been walking with the belt for a while just interesting thing about and no point DP seems to catch him I guess
02:10:35
Speaker
Or he's just relieved to not have to carry that thing through airport terminals, probably. Like, oh no. Well, DDP once failed to track down his stolen Lord of the Ring Battle Bowl ring for like two months as well. So not the best detective, DDP. I guess that's true.
02:10:53
Speaker
Also notable, it's not the last Thunder, which one the Thunder is building up to. I forget which one, because I watch so many. There's a famous bit where Raven is sitting in the corner with the belt in his lap and touching a promo when a random fan grabs him and pulls him out of the ring and attacks him. Yeah, I've seen that bit, yeah. Yes. He fights off the guy and the security takes him away, and he goes back and sits down, but the microphone was busted up because he was in his hand when it happened.
02:11:19
Speaker
So he starts counting up promo and no one can hear him. The microphone is just broken. The camera guy eventually figures it out and gets close enough, probably for some stage hand, or it's coming in the back to him to get closer. You can get to the very end of Raven's promo on the microphone, on the camera itself. He's kinda like the best promo of his life, but no one can hear it because of that. Some d**k, basically. Hits it for no reason during a promo. It's like the Dusty promo back on Starrcade83? Yes.
02:11:48
Speaker
It's amazing. Oh, poor guy. In a bit of a neat touch, Penzer actually brings up the winner of this match, faces Goldberg on Nitro, which builds up Goldberg's importance quite a bit. Facing him comes off as just about as important as the title itself. Paige has a very shiny silver and black vest today. Looks pretty cool.
02:12:12
Speaker
Raven comes out to no theme and holds up Paige's title belt like he's the champion. Flock member Lodi holds up a sign proclaiming him US champ, which he is not. Tony points out that Raven takes his time getting to the ring, but that's because Sick Boy is sneaking into the ring. Sick Boy grabs Paige from behind and Raven lunges in with the belt, but Paige dodges and Raven nails Sick Boy.
02:12:39
Speaker
Paige beats the crap out of Raven, and angrily yells, waving the belt, but cast it aside. A back suplex and a great charging forearm send Raven to the floor. Sick boy helps Raven up, but Paige dives out onto both. Throwing Raven back in, Paige goes to climb in, but Raven knocks him off the apron, and Paige strikes the apron on the way to the floor. It was a pretty ballsy bump there.
02:13:04
Speaker
Back in, Raven lands heavy blows and goes for the evenflow DDT, but Paige drives him to the corner, hits a neckbreaker for two, and goes for the diamondcutter. Raven rapidly slips free and flees. They brawl up the entrance ramp and Raven climbs the stagecoach, but Paige flings him down onto bales of hay and poor Mark Curtis.
02:13:26
Speaker
Paige climbs the stagecoach, and Tony quotes the music man. The Wells Fargo Wagon is a coming down the street. Nice. Paige hits a kind of splash slash knee drop onto Raven, and Tony calls it a double axe handle. It was not. Still, awesome spot.
02:13:47
Speaker
Paige destroys Raven with the aid of wooden fences, trash cans, wagon wheels, and even the WSW website table. But Raven boots him through the WSW website set backdrop. Hienan jokes that they're doing so much damage to the set that before long the building will just look like a garage.
02:14:07
Speaker
I will say that weird bit wherein they're fighting near the table and DDP like seems like he's got to give him a regular suplex through the table but then he like I think he realized if I do it I'm gonna fall with him. He does not want to do that yeah. Yeah so he kind of turns him and drops him. It's a good sort of change up in a move but yeah it's like you were definitely doing something else two seconds ago. Yeah you can picture Raven as he falls saying wait but on page 63 it said you do ah. Yeah.
02:14:34
Speaker
Raven shatters something, the commentators aren't even sure what, over Page's head. Then sets him on a table in the VIP area, which immediately collapses. Someone in the crowd swears loudly at that. Raven puts Page on another table and dives off the crowd barrier. This table does not break. Make up your mind's tables. Also, ow.
02:15:02
Speaker
Paige crawls away, but Raven beats him up with a bull rope and trash can, then drags him to the ring, where Sickboy helpfully offers a kitchen sink. I get it. Raven clubs Paige with the sink for two as the faucet goes flying. Tony and Hienan absolutely delight in kitchen jokes. Tine is no fun.
02:15:26
Speaker
The fans chant mightily for Paige, who struggles to his feet, trades blows with Raven, and drop toe holds him onto the sink to a huge cheer. Both men are down for nine, and Paige pins Raven, but spots Kidman diving at him and breaks, so Kidman nails Raven for two for Paige. Sick Boy smacks Paige with a crutch for two for Raven, but Paige manages to roll Raven up on a suplex attempt for two. Raven calls to the flock.
02:15:55
Speaker
Hammer accidentally nails Raven when Paige dodges, for two for Paige. Reese, double-handed choke slam, earns Raven two.
02:16:02
Speaker
Lodi gives Raven a stop sign, but Page sends it into Raven's face, then disposes of Reese, Hammer, and Sickboy. Kidman leaps on Page's back, but Page suddenly shoves his knee to swing him backwards and smoothly hits the diamond cutter. Absolute perfection there. Mm-hmm, that's a great spot. That may be my favorite diamond cutter. It's up there. It's right up there, yeah. Yeah.
02:16:26
Speaker
Paige goes after Raven, but a guy in a WCW crew shirt and Cap gets in and clubs Paige with the stop sign. Raven even flows Paige onto the kitchen sink for the three count and the win. The bell rings really late. Yes!
02:16:44
Speaker
The commentators question who the guy that helped Raven is and spot that he's dressed as Spring Stampede crew. He comes to help Raven out of the ring with what's now legitimately Raven's belt. As we get replays of the awesome diamond cutter to Kidman, Paige's attacks with the stop sign and the finish. He then questions how long Raven's reign will be since in 24 hours he faces Goldberg. And how the mystery man was? Horace Hogan. Yeah.
02:17:12
Speaker
AKA Horace Boulder, who on the Nitro afterwards, they have Tiney explain that he figured out how his person was. They do this like video detective work where they- Nice. They play like these clips like you see him back here, just like guy with cable and Tiney's like, I thought you looked different. The implications like Tiney knows every single on the crew, which I don't know if that's true or not. That seems like a stretch.
02:17:38
Speaker
like a weird flex there. Oh yeah, I know all the guys in the crew. That guy's different. But I didn't have time to ask him. Yeah, I don't know. They really amp up his credentials too, because they have to explain that he knows them from working really dangerous hardcore matches, which is actually somewhat true.
02:17:57
Speaker
So Horace Hogan as Horace Boulder, which he's currently built as Horace Boulder. We don't get the Hogan family reveal until towards the end of this year, 98. He actually did work in FMW, AKA Frontier Martial Arts Wrestling, which is a great name for a promotion. Yes, it is. The company most famous for exploiting ring death matches and electrified pool matches and all sorts of craziness.
02:18:23
Speaker
So while he did actually work in there a lot, having seen the lyrics of him, it's hard to picture him as this big, scary death mat guy. None of that transferred over to WCW. Maybe he still had it in him, but he didn't do any of that in the company. WCW hardcore doesn't tend to be that hardcore in the first place. But I don't think he's even involved in even their hardcore stuff. Yeah. So it may have just been that he's like, well, I could do stuff for you.
02:18:50
Speaker
what i'm able to do you really don't want to put on your tv so right right it's like they boom like you know saboo is doing the company you're like yeah right that's no thoughts on this match
02:19:03
Speaker
I thought it was pretty fun. It's definitely very, very chaotic. Yes. The first part of it, for me, is maybe the strongest at least early on when they're fighting in and around the ring. There is some interference, but it's not like the main thing. It kind of loosened me a bit as much as I enjoyed the spectacle than fighting up in the front area. It's just them sort of walking around and fighting in the front area. If they're my favorite part of matches, I'm pretty sure it's not yours either based on public enemy matches and the like.
02:19:33
Speaker
I think this particular one, they actually do a good enough job keeping the intensity up the whole time. They largely, like any time, and this is, again, probably a DDP thing, you get a real sense of him having a clear plan in each moment, like, okay, I've stunned Raven, now I'm going to throw him into this to stun him again, now I'm going to knock him with this to stun him again. It has a better flow than those types of matches often have.
02:19:59
Speaker
I agree, it's definitely a better version of that, but for me it's still a version of that, which is not my most favorite part to watch in a wrestling match. The ending section is good, but through a caveat. There's so much outside interference constantly. It mostly works. I like the idea that people come in and a lot of their stuff backfires. If you need something done right, don't call Van Hammer. That's kind of a rule.
02:20:26
Speaker
It's just a good, hard, fast rule for you guys. I do love when he screws up and then he was like kneeling over him like, I'm sorry, dude. Yeah. You could actually hear him saying that it's hilarious. He does a good job with that part, but then it's like, okay, so Reese comes in and takes DDP out, but not enough for a pin. But he's like, I'll just leave and wait for him to call me again. Yeah. There's little moments where like, shouldn't he have stuck around and yeah. Yeah.
02:20:50
Speaker
For me, having so much interference in this final part makes one more guy interfering less impactful. There's like six people that interfere in this match overall. And just the last one is more important, because you don't know who he is and he gets the final shot in. I get the story that you fight Raven, you have to fight the flock. For me, it takes away because there's so much happening is I could see
02:21:15
Speaker
doing their winter in the ring where they think attack them and then they ultimately fight to the front area. Maybe have all the interference happen in that part of the match? Yeah. Keep all this room and all these areas so you could have, you know, Reese get thrown through the fence and all this stuff.
02:21:30
Speaker
Maybe sick boy goes to the announce table or the internet table, whatever you want to call it. And so they're mostly a non-factor. So you have inflation. Hey, they're all down and they're over here. Yeah. 20 feet away from the ring. So Page's guard is truly down and that's when the last one comes in. Yeah. I can see that.
02:21:50
Speaker
And there were like six people in a row attacking him. Makes the six guys attack less impactful for me because he's just another guy doing it. You need a little more reason why Paige in particular gets caught by this guy. Yes. Rather than it just being, oh, there's one more guy. Yeah, exactly. For me, though, I thought this was a very, very fun brawl. They used a progressive ramp up of violence to aid some excellent storytelling.
02:22:15
Speaker
It was Paige's sheer heart and determination against Raven's trickery and allies, and it really felt like it could swing at any moment. Objectively, there's not a lot of straight wrestling moves in this, but there's some very innovative spots that make up the difference and some terrific use of the set.
02:22:30
Speaker
I hope they didn't want to use any of those props next year. I appreciate that even if this was heavy on the brawling, they never lost sight of the storyline. They built up both the Evenflow and the Diamond Cutter well with early counters, making both front and center in viewers' minds, and made good use of props to set up increasingly complex spots in the late match, until Chekhov's Kitchen Sink sent Page's Chances of Victory down the drain. I got it!
02:22:57
Speaker
I thought this was worth the price of admission for that diamond cutter to Kidman alone. No, that was definitely enjoyable. I found it very, very entertaining. And I think I can see where you're coming from that yes, it is a walk and brawl. And yes, it is a chaotic series of interference spots at the end. But I think the strong character work and the really great timing for most of it makes this like the best version of that type of thing. It's definitely a well done version. I will not take that away.
02:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, just for me, the part when it's DEP and Raven directly wrestling were really enjoyable, and their parts weren't as enjoyable, or at least as a whole. When I think about it, I can go, oh yeah, it's the whole thing is enjoyable. I won't take that away from it, but definitely it's a lot going on, and I would have liked more DEP and Raven in that. Obviously, as noted at the first match, we have the Goldberg-Raven match. Unsurprisingly, Raven would lose.
02:23:56
Speaker
making him, I guess, the not greatest WWE US champion in history. An important one, arguably. He's the guy that gets Goldberg the US title, but... Yeah, yeah. He's important for being at the right place at the right time. That is definitely historically important. Yeah. That position does matter. Yeah.
02:24:13
Speaker
They will only give that to a person that they trust to be able to pull it off properly for such an important moment. I don't think that you should take Raven had a 24-hour title reign as an insult. Yeah, the key thing with being known as a traditional champion like Raven is here is that you really have to have a full resume outside of that one moment. Yeah, you gotta pick a guy that can survive it.
02:24:43
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing, like, this happens, and then we see on Slambree 1998, Raven has an epic match against DDP. Right. He's not being buried, quote unquote, by this, yeah. It didn't hurt him. No, no. He's still Raven. Right. Obviously, as you mentioned, yeah, the DDP Raven has that crazy cage match, which I still maintain should have been fought for control of a diamond Raven. Yes. That would have made us an extra star right there.
02:25:13
Speaker
We go back to the commentary desk, and Tony isn't sure how much of the arena remains intact for the last match. Heenan says, if you think Raven took a beating in this match, just wait for his match against Goldberg. Tony builds up Sting vs Savage, but is cut off by production and told to throw to the ring, so it's time for our last match.
02:25:33
Speaker
I've never seen that happen. I don't think this. Tony's in the middle of making a point and pauses dead, stopped, and says, oh, I'm being told that we have to go to the next match right now. He uses the opposite. He uses the radio code in the next match and they have to stall. Right, yeah. We got to cut back to so-and-so in the back, interviewing someone else. Yeah, that was interesting.
02:25:54
Speaker
So our final match is The Macho Man Randy Savage with Elizabeth versus Sting in a no disqualification match for Sting's WCW World Heavyweight Championship.
Savage vs Sting Main Event
02:26:06
Speaker
Referee for this one is Charles Robinson.
02:26:09
Speaker
So Sting would be the person to finally dethrone Hogan for the WCW title back at Starrcade. You know, except for that brief period where it looks like he did it also and no one talks about it. Yes. It was just a bad timing for that. It was as we'll discuss when we cover the show related to that. Hogan is now the forward champion, so in the meantime other new members like Scott Hall would challenge Sting for the bell unsuccessfully.
02:26:34
Speaker
Next his line is Renny Savage, who openly fights the NWO rule, saying that Hogan should always be champion. He's gonna win the title for himself, and he's gonna buy himself. Okay. Hogan's response is to nearly kill him, in kayfabe.
02:26:49
Speaker
They don't show it for obvious reasons, but they show Savage laying out outside the arena. They do the earlier night graphic, and the implication was that he was hit by a truck. Oh, jeez. So some sort of vehicular assault happened, which I think is a way of them trying to cover his legit injuries going into this match. Oh, okay. Where they build up his shoulder and his concussion and all that. Like, yeah, that's what happened.
02:27:14
Speaker
Presumably we should be looking for an accomplice or advisor looking at Bobby Heenan based off of the advice he gave earlier tonight. That's true, yeah. And as mentioned before, this part of the split with the NWO, Savage is often being aligned with Nash, even though they're both in the group and they really should be getting behind the whole idea of Hogan and get to be champion again. But they are not.
02:27:39
Speaker
Michael Buffer does the ring introductions, selling this as a rematch between two men who despise each other, but also respect each other. I'm not sure that that's actually possible, but sure. He does his usual spiel, name-dropping the Denver Broncos for more cheers, and it's time for entrances. NWO theme count, seven.
02:28:02
Speaker
Savage and Elizabeth make their way to the ring. Savage makes extraordinarily random hand gestures on the way to the ring. Some look like he's communicating that his right arm, which is wrapped, is fine, but others I just couldn't figure out at all what he was trying to get across. Sting's dark and broody theme starts up, and he slowly walks to the ring as fireworks go off behind. I'm normally all for Pyro, but those seem more suited to Bright and Cheery Sting than Crow Sting. Yeah.
02:28:31
Speaker
I kind of wish with Crosting that they had done the like fog gimmick that they do for like The Undertaker and stuff. Oh, yeah. That would be more proper for his look.
02:28:42
Speaker
Savage attacks before Sting even has his coat off, and Sting expertly discards the coat while absorbing blows. Savage sends Sting outside and into a barricade, then rolls him in as the bell finally rings to start the match proper. Savage chokes Sting and lands punches, but sells his own injured arm, and Sting blocks a punch, then floors Savage with a single punch. Sting sends Savage outside and beats the crap out of him with the aid of the wooden fences, a camera cable, and a bale of hay.
02:29:11
Speaker
Tony, bless him, explains that the hay could be the best weapon here because you might inhale it and combined with the thin air in Denver, that would put you down. Massive points for trying, Tony. Yes. Sting tries using a bale of hay as a weapon and because of the nature of it, he can barely hold it because it's sort of falling in and of itself. Yeah. Like flops behind him awkwardly and then just kind of gently maps macho on the top of the head. It's not the most impressive spot.
02:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, I would have done some of like, body slam him through it or something. Right, land him on the hay, not the other way around, yeah. Exactly, yeah. In other words, what DDP did. Yes, correct. Back to ringside, but Savage dodges a stinger splash and Sting eats paracade.
02:30:00
Speaker
Savage sends him to the ring post and takes him in for two with his feet on the ropes. Savage punches and a clothesline each earned two. Sting back body drops out of the pile driver, but Savage dodges an elbow drop and chokes him on the ropes for two. Sting sends Savage out again and suplexes him on the floor mats. Sting waits calmly as Elizabeth helps Savage back in. Sting attacks, but Savage slugs him in the crotch.
02:30:28
Speaker
Savage crotches Sting on the top rope for two and a half, but Sting slugs Savage during a top rope double axe handle. Stingers flash, but Savage dodges and throws Robinson in the way. Sting seems to stop just in time, but Savage clotheslines him into Robinson who gets flattened. Savage pile driver, but Sting gets right up. Elizabeth hits Sting with a chair, but he just glares at her.
02:30:54
Speaker
Stinger splashes to Savage, but he pulls Elizabeth in the way. Sting is shocked, so Savage smashes him over the head with the chair. Savage sets Sting's head on the chair and goes for the big elbow drop, but Hogan appears and shoves Savage off the top rope. Savage lands on his knee hard. Hogan walks away, theatrically dusting off his hands.
02:31:18
Speaker
Savage goes for a suplex on the chair, but his leg gives out and Sting reverses into the scorpion death drop. But Robinson is still out. Kevin Nash enters, and clubs Sting from behind, then hits the jackknife powerbomb to Sting. He drapes Savage on top of Sting, then lifts Robinson with one hand and drops him by the two, where the barely conscious ref counts three to give Savage the win in the title.
02:31:47
Speaker
NWO theme count? Eight. Savage is too busy selling his knee to celebrate. Nash takes the belt and boots Robinson in the head a couple times, which isn't the best way to wake someone up. No. He eventually gets Robinson awake and Robinson dazedly gives the belt to Savage, who Nash has to help up.
02:32:08
Speaker
Astonishingly epic selling job by Savage, Sting, and Robinson here, as all of them are basically incapacitated and Nash basically has to engineer the whole belt ceremony himself. Mm-hmm. Hogan and the disciple come back through the entrance, and Hogan is shocked. That's my belt, he yells. Nash can't do that. What's going on? Kevin Nash, disciple contributes. Very, very helpful, disciple. Yeah.
02:32:34
Speaker
Well, now you know who's in the ring. Yeah, yeah. I was in the shirt before. Yeah, you know, it could have been any of those, like, near seven-footers. Yeah. Everyone wears that many tassels in their legs. And everyone has perfectly beautiful hair like that. And has Nash written on the front of their shirt. Yeah. I mean, it could have been Dean Malenko. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You've got hell to pay, Hogan yells toward Nash, as Tony abruptly shills Nitro and signs off in this band of, like, five seconds, and we fade out. Yes.
02:33:05
Speaker
Thoughts on this match?
02:33:11
Speaker
As I mentioned from the previous match, I wasn't a huge fan of the walk-around brawling stuff in that one. I will agree with you that was a strong version of that. So naturally they followed up with this match, which is not as good a version of that. Yep. I mean, the hay spot. And there's a lot more of the walk and brawl. I'm gonna put my arm around your shoulder, Randy, and walk you over here to do this thing next.
02:33:36
Speaker
The thing to bear in mind in this match is a lot of us have injuries are actually real. He is just working injured for this show. I really wish he hadn't for a number of reasons, obviously for his own health being one of them.
02:33:51
Speaker
There's a lot of ways this is like, I think it's wrestling at 15, if I'm in the right show. It's like the middle match between Rock and Steve Austin, if I'm getting the timeline on that right. At that point, Austin had not fully recovered from his neck injury. He could work, but he basically could work a walk around fighting kind of match, not an actual wrestling match for 20 minutes. So that's what their match is. It's not like shot for shot with this, but it's very similar how they fight at the outside and walk around a bit a lot.
02:34:20
Speaker
So there's a lot of overlaps here, and it's because of the same reason. Sting, to his credit, other than stupidly trying to use a bale of hay as a weapon, looks really good here. One thing I notice watching more sting matches from this time period especially, like the top star sting matches, have you ever seen him hit his stinger splash on the outside? Not that I can think of, no. It's normally the, that's the moment when he's gonna get countered, yeah.
02:34:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, yeah, that's his climb to the top rope get thrown off all the brick flare spot. Yeah, much like the flare karma spot, I'm sure there must be one point where it actually does work. Yeah. That justifies him continuing to try it, but... Okay, so the best case scenario, Rainy Savage is laying against the guard rail and he hits them. And then what, they flip over the guard rail because they're half leaning against a rail? Probably, yeah. Yeah, there's no good outcome here.
02:35:19
Speaker
The finale of the match, I get there's a whole big story with Hogan and Nash, and unfortunately the disciple has to be around too for all this. To Kevin Nash! Exactly. To point out who's in the ring. What I love about how he does that is it is genuinely like he's just realized that that is Kevin Nash.
02:35:39
Speaker
I know, right? It's like he doesn't say it like he knew Kevin Nash. Right. It's not like that. It's not like Kevin Nash. It's he comes out and he's like Hogan is already talking about things and disciple points at the ring. It's like Kevin Nash. You're like, you just realized who this person is. Yeah. Okay. It reminds me of a bit we didn't mention in the previous match.
02:36:03
Speaker
Um, he didn't start to set up the Goldberg match. Right. And it's like, he won the title, but he's got a face and he waits for someone to finish that. And then Tinego's Goldberg? Yes. Like he didn't know that? Yeah. Like was Goldberg behind him all of a sudden? Is it Goldberg? I think what he's going for there that kind of comes off right is incredulousness at the
02:36:26
Speaker
even prospect that Raven could be healthy to face Goldberg. Yeah, I guess. But yeah, it's there's just a little bit too long of a pause before where it just genuinely sounds like he's just realized in his astonishment that Goldberg exists. Yeah, Goldberg. Our apologies to Mike Dene for comparing him to the disciple. No, OK, fair enough.
02:36:47
Speaker
It is worth noting that in that bit with Hogan where he shows him off the rope, Savage that is, he did let it injure his knee even more. Oh, okay, so it's actually- Yeah, he is not super selling that. Okay. Yeah, no. Jeez, ow. Another question I have about this finish, and it's kind of a thing throughout other Nebio stuff, like with the bat match.
02:37:08
Speaker
Where are the other WWE guys during all this? That's always the question during nWo and interference spots. Yeah, Luger and Rick Steiner don't want to stop disciple from interfering during that match. Yeah, that's the thing that always comes up with this that they've always sold it as it's a war between WCW and the nWo, but it rarely is. It's almost always a war between
02:37:29
Speaker
the NWO and whichever WSW guys happen to be there as actual match participants. Yeah. Because WCW does not ever send down additional guys in any but like the very rarest of cases. Yeah. So so much of the story is if thing was the title, the title goes back to the NWO and that's a big deal. We've established this is a very bad thing. Yeah. Yes.
02:37:53
Speaker
So Lex and Rick, I guess, are just already gone. Maybe Scott and normally the back challenge them all to arm wrestling match and they're all waiting around trying to beat him. You know, there'd be some prestige in that I could see. Yeah. Good. The actual match. That's kind of disappointing because poor Savage is already working hurt in there and can't do the normal Savage stuff. Like, you know, he doesn't do his diving ax sandal, the outside stuff, you know, like he normally would do because of his like being already messed up. Yeah.
02:38:24
Speaker
I would say this was a perfectly acceptable, even maybe good, no disqualification match, but it had the misfortune of following Page versus Raven. Sting and Savage did, I thought, a fine job here and made good use of the ringside and ramside props, but 90% of what they did out here, we just finished watching two other guys do a tad better and a tad more creatively.
02:38:47
Speaker
I don't know whose brilliant idea it was to put both of these matches on the same show, much less right next to each other, but it does this one a real disservice, taking a solid match and making it feel dull. To their credit, Sting and Savage mixed up the formula with more in-ring action than Page vs. Raven, so that helped differentiate the two a bit. Savage repeatedly countering the Stinger Splash by pulling someone else in the way is good fun as well.
02:39:12
Speaker
The interference spots by Hogan and Nash are intriguing, though I do wonder why Hogan thought one little push was all he needed to stop Savage. I mean, Sting was still unconscious when you left, brother. Yeah, right?
02:39:25
Speaker
So I did actually think this was a good match. It just felt underwhelming because of the previous match. I feel like taken in a vacuum and I really should have tried that on my rewatch. I did watch these two in the same night. I should have tried separating them by a night because I feel like this one would feel better if I hadn't just watched Paige versus Raven.
02:39:48
Speaker
I will tell you, the last match I watched, to have it fresh as my mind, and because it was important, was this one.
Critique of Match Order and Storytelling
02:39:54
Speaker
I watched it by itself today. Oh, okay. And I still, yeah. But I get your point, though, about it being very similar, for sure. Whether you feel this is a good match or feel it's a poor match, it coming after Paige versus Raven hurts it. Mm-hmm.
02:40:10
Speaker
This match, I think, clarifies for me why I liked Page vs. Raven so much. Because this match, as you pointed out, does more of the let's just walk to our next spot stuff. It kind of looks like let's visibly look for the next item to get where Page vs. Raven, it felt like more of a this is Page's strategy. Yeah. Is going item, item, item, item, item really fast. It's also kind of like when you play the video games and you do the backstage brawl.
02:40:40
Speaker
You have to, like, walk a guy over to where, like, the luggage case is and then you slam him on the luggage case. Right. You walk him down towards the mirror or something, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what this feels like, is there's that awkwardness to it. But yeah, I do feel like if this didn't have the misfortune of coming after a nearly identical match concept, then it would come off better. Your mileage may vary on just how much better, but definitely better.
02:41:05
Speaker
Alright, so, first thing out of the way is they play a bit we didn't see on the pay-per-view on Nitro at the beginning as part of the summary of what happened. Apparently, some point a few minutes after the show ended, New Champion and Savage and Nash walked towards the back and of course they turned away from the interway to greet the crowd whereupon they were hit by a bat by Hogan.
02:41:29
Speaker
So, going into the actual show now, there's an obvious rift because Hogan is not just once hit or even twice hit Nash with the bat, but three times. Yes. It's definitely not getting along at this point. It's definitely a two to one ratio of on purpose versus not on purpose now. Correct.
02:41:47
Speaker
Hogan, of course, comes out to open the show, says that he should be champion, savage to get in line, yada, yada. He claims he has the whole building locked down. Like he has Scott Norton watching a door and like Bagwell watching a door or something. They don't show, which I kind of wish they had done, honestly, like cut to a back. They didn't see them. Presumably Scott Norton is, again, challenging everyone to arm wrestling contest. Yes. You can enter as long as you can beat me in arm wrestling. Scott stars make them ask him ask like a math riddle.
02:42:17
Speaker
Can you solve this? So he comes out saying that he's going to get a title match tonight, and then he leaves. So then Savage comes out separately, like in the next segment, and says that he has no problem fighting Hogan, and he's not afraid of him, and all that stuff. But then we get a third segment where Roddy Piper comes out, who I think is still a commissioner, but Dildan's definitely back, so it's a little unclear. I think they try to say on some point in Spring Stampede that
02:42:44
Speaker
He's an advisor to the championship committee or something. Piper is, I guess, because of his resume, they go, well, what do you think we should do for matches? And after the third time he says bad in a poll, they stop asking him. Which is good. But anyway, so he agrees that Matt sets it up and says this match will also be no DQ. Because of course it is. Piper says, so I'm going to take it with me here. Piper says that it's no DQ, but also no NWA members are allowed to run in.
02:43:12
Speaker
but the punishment for that would be a DQ. Yes. Which you can't do. Correct. Okay. All right. Yeah. Again, Piper has some issues working on matches work.
02:43:23
Speaker
Also, just to go back, Savage had no problem facing Hogan. Correct. Despite the fact that in the intro video package, he said that if he won the title, Hogan would go to the bottom of the pecking order. Correct. Okay. Good to know we're being consistent in our storytelling. Yeah. Well, he's extra mad, I guess, after another bad shot. Who knows? Fair. Fair. But yeah, no, it is a good point to bring that up, though. Yeah. I'm thinking about that.
02:43:45
Speaker
So they have the match you expect they would have, especially with knowing that Savage's leg is injured from last night and just other injuries compiled in the working hurt this whole time. During the match, referee Dick Patrick is knocked out, whereupon the interview runs out. The disciple does his finish, which is apparently called the apocalypse. Cool name. Yeah. Which is, it's a really bad stunner. Kinda saw that coming.
02:44:09
Speaker
Yeah, but he does the upgraded version though. While he's interfering in the match, he puts the Deb CB title over his shoulder, which is place that belt should never be, by the way, for the record. And then gives Savage is sort of soft stunner onto the belt. It's kind of creative, but yeah. Should've called that the apocalypse NWO, you know, as a play on apocalypse now.
02:44:34
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's good. I think that, yeah, that makes sense. That's too clever for them, unfortunately. Of course Kevin Nash is like this. He comes out and put stop to all of that because, you know, it's easy to get rid of the disciple. Come on. Yeah. However, one more person in a few years in the match, hitting him with the belt from behind. That person, Bret Hart. Okay. Hogan wins the belt 24 hours after the title change at Spring Stampede. Yeah.
02:45:01
Speaker
This, of course, would lead to the Renny Savage per Heart match, which we covered at Slambere 98. Right. Which was good at times, but not great at times. Yeah, it definitely had its moments. As for our champion, who's not involved in any of this stuff, which is interesting.
02:45:18
Speaker
because he's gone back to his raptors. He's, of course, dragged into the Indibio mess, as we cover in Slambree, where he ends up in a match team with the Giant, who, before Slambree joined the Indibio, and they're challenging Hala Nash, who are Indibio, but also trying to split away.
02:45:35
Speaker
It's all a mess, is what it is. Yeah. Again, I can't hold what happens in the future against this show. I think this show leaves WCW in an interesting place story-wise with the NWO and everything. The execution going forward could maybe be better, but the place this show leaves it is very intriguing. No, I agree.
02:46:01
Speaker
We get the Slampery ad again, and Spring Stampede 1998 is done. That was sudden. Yeah, right. So overall thoughts on Spring Stampede 1998.
02:46:13
Speaker
Uh, first part of the show is really good. You have really good singles matches, uh, evolving really good talent, whether up and coming talent like Goldberg, established stars like Dragon, Ben Wahl, Parker T. There's some weak points in there because the Henig Bulldog match just doesn't live up to what you expect, even with the lower standard, given the time and injuries involved. It picks back up again with the Jericho match that was good.
02:46:39
Speaker
We get the very nothing tag match, kind of palette cleanser, I guess, for the whole show, clear everything out. We get enjoyable and rare, La Parque, a pay-per-view match. And then we get to the last part of the show where all the important matches happen. Of course, the booger standpoint, all the important matches happen here. You have a match which is all built around using a weapon on each other.
02:47:03
Speaker
followed by a Raven's Rules match, where it's about using weapons all the time with people interfering, and then a note of cue match where it's about using weapons and people interfering and notice qualifications. Yeah. All together.
02:47:18
Speaker
So, first half great, some hit or miss in the middle, but your opinion may vary on whether all three of the matches are good, or two of the matches are good, or however you feel what the match is. There's a lot of redundancy, both in Storyline, because you have the Hogan and Nash stuff happening so quickly before they made an event, also on Hogan and Nash, and there's a lot of redundancy in the match types.
02:47:42
Speaker
I'll agree with that. I enjoyed each individual match, one less than the others. Yes. But I did definitely feel like, wow, this is three things with a very similar theme right next to each other. Yeah. Like at least distribute them throughout the show a little more. What I would have done, honestly, looking at this back of those cards, I would have put the Raven DDP match first on the show.
02:48:06
Speaker
I could see that being a really, really big, maybe, maybe you want to have the Goldberg match first. But yeah, I can definitely see that being earlier in the show being a good charge up the crowd thing.
02:48:16
Speaker
Either way, moving that match from 7-minute event to either 1st or 2nd match or even 3rd match, if you do it first and then last, you have a bookend of these NoDQ matches where they're spaced out like 2 hours, almost 2 hours apart. So maybe sort of freshen up a bit that way. Yeah. Yeah, just would make this any part less redundant, I would say. Mm-hmm.
Spring Stampede's Impact on WCW
02:48:40
Speaker
But overall, it's a strong show, I think. It's just uneven with some of the order of the show.
02:48:46
Speaker
This is not an absolute home run like 1994 and 1997, but it is still quite a good show. Of the ten matches, I thought eight were solid, good, or great, and the other two were hardly bad, just a little disappointing, but, blessedly, both quite short.
02:49:04
Speaker
There's some really interesting angles mixed in as well, with the NWO tension angle reaching its breaking point over the course of the show and nicely moving into a new stage of likely open warfare as we see the NWO splitting into two factions, which will soon be the NWO Hollywood and NWO Wolfpack.
02:49:22
Speaker
As much as the NWO should have ended back at Stargate 1997, it didn't. So this is a good and interesting spin to put on it. And it serves to make this one of WSW's most massively consequential shows, as it sets in motion the angle that'll define WSW for the rest of the year.
02:49:41
Speaker
I think that's the general theme of this show, actually. It serves as an excellent pivot point for a number of angles. The NWO, Page vs. Raven, Goldberg's Rise, the Jericho-Molenko angle, the Guerrero story. All of those either get major twists or huge increases in tension on this show. It feels impactful. It's kind of surprising that it manages to do that with virtually no promo content, though.
02:50:07
Speaker
Yeah. We just get a couple super short bits with Paige and Raven at the internet desk. Nothing from the bat match participants, nothing from Sting or Savage. Maybe they wanted to play it safe after last year's Harlem Heat bit. Yeah. Maybe. On the bright side, the performers pick up the slack with an excellent job of storytelling in the ring and in the immediate aftermath of the matches. And many have learned to bellow things at the top of their lungs. Yes. Everyone's rather tense tonight, especially Giant.
02:50:36
Speaker
Commentary was a little uneven. They had good discussions, and there were some real winning jokes, especially from Hienan, but there were some occasional awkward silences, and it felt like Tony and Hienan didn't always play off each other quite as smoothly as usual. Tine remains a bit of a strange addition to the team. He's a great play-by-play guy, and he does show personality here, but it's always been a little odd having him and Tony kind of playing the same role, and this show is no exception. Neither of that, yeah.
02:51:04
Speaker
It just feels like he and Tony haven't quite worked out how to trade off with both doing play-by-play and playing the straight man. Still, I enjoyed the three's work, and today was more involved than he is on some shows, chiming in on the Tony heat and squabbles quite naturally. Yeah. There's few production flubs to speak of, either. Indeed, this show carried on from last year with a great thematic set. Not quite as elaborate as last year's, but still one of WSW's best.
02:51:30
Speaker
It even gets involved in some of the matches, which was really fun, particularly Paige and Raven using the stagecoach. It's great to see how much fun WCW was having with this theme. I think that's one of the things I'm definitely going to take away from this series. This was definitely a good show, just not quite to the level as the prior two in this series. There's a few bits of slowdown, a few more awkward bits that are more noticeable, and the ending feels a tad flat just because of the mistake of putting two no-DQ brawls right next to each other.
02:51:59
Speaker
But overall, Spring Stampede 1998 is still a very easy, entertaining watch, so we're three for three.
02:52:06
Speaker
The other thing I'd say is you're also getting at the point of WCW where you see the reliance upon certain older stars or established stars, not being a major detriment, but maybe being less of a useful thing than it was before. Cause some of them, for one reason or another, either can't keep working at this fast pace with so many shows, their body breaks down, like with Savage or the Hennig. Yeah.
02:52:29
Speaker
Or for the reason they can't perform as well, like Bulldog, or I guess this don't feel like performing as well, like Scott Steiner, but Bagwell, apparently.
02:52:38
Speaker
Yeah, I can definitely see that it's like they are trying to build up new stars. I mean, you definitely get a sense that the show is trying to make some new people. But there's also just a reliance on the previous stars, not necessarily past the point where you should have, but approaching the point where you need to really be thinking about new things.
02:53:00
Speaker
Well, I say just think about timeline wise, not to pick on the guy, but okay. So it's a big deal when Marty Piper shows up to set up a big match Hogan and December 9th, 96, here we are almost a year and a half later and he's still fighting Hogan the same way. Yeah. And again, it's a case where this was a rehash of the feud from the original WrestleMania. Yes. Which was at this point, what would it be like 13 years prior?
02:53:30
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, I don't think that they've yet started to be punished for relying on the same people over and over, but they're getting to the period where you can see that coming. Right. I think the show is an indication that they haven't gotten the idea that that's coming down the pipe. Right.
02:53:50
Speaker
which I think is indicative of 98 as a year in general. It's still actually quite a good year for WCW, but it's the year where you start saying, huh, the NWO angle is getting a bit long in the tooth. We're not quite making new stars. The same people are at the top that have always been.
02:54:04
Speaker
We're going back to a few we've already done as new things in this company. We're bringing in yet more people that have done things and other feds that were interesting and hoping it'll hit for us again. Right. Things are still going strong at this moment, but you're seeing the signs of things that will bring it down ultimately. Yeah, we don't hit that peak until Halloween Havoc of 98. Right. All right. Match of the night and MVP. So, Al, you're match of the night.
02:54:33
Speaker
Thankfully, this is a very strong show overall. Um, obviously we disagree a little here and there, which is fine. For me, the match that had the best level of sort of the high work rate, but also the sort of crowded response, cause there's some that I thought they worked really well, but I'm going to be doing it as much as a crowd response that I'd hope, or, you know, to sort of match what they were doing in the ring.
02:54:56
Speaker
and just sort of deliver it all around. It's actually early on in the show. For me, Madison Knight, I want to say is Ben Wahl versus Booker T. Kind of thought you were going to end up going there, honestly, though I admit there's a little bit of me that is shocked that you didn't just hand it to La Parque and psychosis just don't think I'm not tempted. Yeah. Honestly, if we had gotten the crazy like six man lucha match with La Parque and them, that'd be a no brainer. Yeah.
02:55:23
Speaker
For me, I had three matches that I decided to rewatch, was Guerrero vs. Dragon, Booker vs. Benoit, and Paige vs. Raven. I thought all were great in different ways, which was a really nice treat. This is one of those shows where it's a hard choice for good reasons. I think, though, I'm going to go with Guerrero vs. Dragon. I thought it was a great in-ring match with a great story beyond just the in-ring action as well, played to perfection by Dragon, Chavo, and Eddie.
02:55:50
Speaker
He had some nice family drama that was played up in addition to the exceptional action and that put it just a tiny bit above the other two to me. Okay. MVP? That's a tricky one. I mean... It is, yes. Yeah. And a lot of people step up whether to show that they're on the rise or just sort of earning their place. I mean, Goldberg does quite well here. I thought Chava was nice in that moment here.
02:56:13
Speaker
Tim to give it to Jared because he's so ridiculous in his character and his real breath of fresh air with the N.W.O. story still going on to this point.
02:56:24
Speaker
Some people just deliver in their usual way like Raven and DDP of course. Laparca is an easy cop out if I really want to be that way. Believe me, I am really tempted. I know, I know. Yeah. But to be perfectly fair, I want to give it to the person that I thought had all the little intandibles there and delivered a really hard finish in a really well done way.
02:56:45
Speaker
So for me, I'm good to Booker T. Yeah, he definitely makes a strong case, even if you left aside the entire rest of his match base purely on that final kick. Yeah. And the pure athletic ability involved in that is amazing. But he did a great leading up to that too. Yeah, great fighting beneath. He has great facial expressions, selling injuries and he keeps fighting against a guy who's very relentless. Yeah. Yep.
02:57:09
Speaker
Yeah, again, there were a ton of good choices on this show. Booker T is definitely a great one. Paige and Raven, I really liked for some exceptionally timed spots. Giant for being a very large and very scary man. Hogan and Nash, actually, for interesting NWO infighting, I thought. Mickey J, for thinking, yeah, I'm sure Booker can clear me on a jump kick.
02:57:30
Speaker
But I'm going to give it to Chavo Guerrero. I thought he did a really great job in the in-reaction against Dragon, but also excellently played off Uncle Eddie at ringside, emphasizing the storyline without letting it overshadow the action that he was putting on in the ring. It was a really tough and very complex performance to manage, and I thought he did it really, really well.
02:57:53
Speaker
And that wraps up our review of Spring Stampede 1998. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Twitter or Facebook as let's go to the ring. Links will be available in the episode description. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through.
02:58:12
Speaker
You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, High Heart Radio, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, TuneIn, Verbal, or Audible. And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance of pay-per-view figures, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo. Next up, Spring Stampede 1999.
02:58:41
Speaker
The good, the bad, the showdown. Kind of surprised that it took them four shows to finally do a Western film reference. Yeah, it's kind of surprising, honestly. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:59:13
Speaker
Referee for this one is Nick Patrick. As I was waiting for my lead in there. Oh, sorry, storyline for this. There you go. Sorry, I actually always cut that out of the actual broadcast. So I just stopped thinking of saying it.