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Episode 72: Halloween Havoc 1990
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Join us in the haunted arena for our look at the second WCW Halloween show, Halloween Havoc 1990! This year, WCW even realized they were making a Halloween show, so that's a plus! The Freebirds face another generic face tag team - can they get booed this time? Ric Flair joins Arn Anderson for tag team action! Lex Luger faces Stan Hansen! Sting faces Sid Vicious for the world title! This show should be pretty good, unless, say, WCW cuts four full matches, forgets to write an ending for a match, has somebody else dress as Sting seven years early for that, and/or has a low budget stage magician for their latest villain. You know, purely hypothetically. For hopefully none of that, let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Morning Recording Discussion
00:00:37
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling Series by Series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by a guy who would not get booed mercilessly by the crowd when facing the fabulous free birds, Alec Phrygian. That's true. They would be very confused. They wouldn't know who I am. They were like, huh? It'd be more of a huh reaction than a boo reaction. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. They would know me well enough to boo me yeah just yet. Yeah.
00:01:07
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Al? ah Or today, Al, we are recording in the morning for like the first time in a long time. It's going well, how about you? It hasn't been a long enough day for anything to go wrong yet, right? That's true, yeah. So far so good. Well, I hope the rest of the day continues as good as it has been so far. Or even better. Yeah, that's great. Tonight, or, wow, I clearly do not prep these show notes for daytime recordings.
Introduction to Halloween Havoc 1990
00:01:33
Speaker
Today, we're taking a look at Halloween Havoc 1990, Terror Rules the Ring. If that title is any sign, WSW has now realized it is actually doing a Halloween themed show and will hopefully embrace it a little more of this time instead of just throwing up some cheap decorations backstage. I look forward to our new world champion, Terror.
00:01:55
Speaker
Halloween Havoc 1990 was held on October 27th, 1990, at the UIC Pavilion in Chicago, Illinois, in front of 8,000 fans, 7,000 of which paid. We've seen two other shows at the pavilion so far. Starrcade 1987, which had 9,000 attendees, did a little bit better than Halloween Havoc 1990, but not by a ton. Do you remember what the other show was, Al?
00:02:20
Speaker
Ooh, I feel like I should, but I do not know. It was AWA Super Clash 3. Oh, right. All right. And that did far, far worse with only one thousand six hundred and seventy two in attendance, not even a quarter of what the show gets. Yeah, yeah, that's not good.
00:02:41
Speaker
Halloween Havoc 1990 received 200,000 pay-per-view buys, not quite as strong as last year, but still quite good for the era. This is, in fact, the last WCW pay-per-view that will hit 200,000 until Bash of the Beach 1994.
Edited Version and Cut Matches
00:02:56
Speaker
Oh wow.
00:02:58
Speaker
It is worth noting that we are watching the peacock version of the show, which in contrast to the norm is a significantly edited down version of the show that cuts several matches. It appears to possibly be based on the 1990s VHS release rather than the original broadcast. So what are we missing? First up, there were a couple dark matches that weren't on the original aired show either.
00:03:22
Speaker
Tim Horner versus Barry Horowitz. Yes, that Barry Horowitz, the legendary WWF Chopper. He got around. And then we had Rip Rogers versus Reno Riggins. That's a very R centric match. Yeah. Pirates love it. Then we have the matches that were cut from the actual show. We have Terry Taylor versus Bill Irwin.
00:03:47
Speaker
JW Storm versus Brad Armstrong. I admit to being very sad to lose a Brad Armstrong match. Well, I'm a little sad too, because JW Storm's gimmick is based on late 80s, two minutes ago. I really want to see it. Oh, my gosh. Are you kidding me? I'm not the other Jack in the ponytail, like right off of a hard to kill. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Oh, I'm really sad we lost that match then. I know, right?
00:04:10
Speaker
And then we had the Master Blasters, Blade and Steel versus the Southern Boys, Tracy Smothers and Steve Armstrong. Not only does this rob us of another Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome reference on this series, so but it also prevents us from seeing a young Kevin Nash who portrayed Steel with an orange mohawk. What a loss to the world. Also, from reading on the Wiki page, it does does rob us of follow up on the show we actually see as well, which I'll cover. Yes, yes, that's true.
00:04:39
Speaker
And finally, we lost Junkyard Dog versus Moon Dog Rex. If those guys formed a tag team, presumably it would be something like Junk Moon Dogs or Moon Junk Dogs or Moon Yard Dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of those kind of sound like anime titles. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Or 1990s crime movies. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. So will Halloween Havoc 1990 feel as chopped to shreds as it actually is?
00:05:09
Speaker
To find out, let's go to the ring.
Opening Video and Costume Theme
00:05:13
Speaker
We open with a video intro even better than last year's, featuring cartoon visuals of a dramatic approach to a creepy haunted house, zooming in on the decor before the camera moves to the door. The door opens and the wibbly wobbly ghosts of Sting, Sid Vicious, Stan Hansen and Lex Luger float out, presumably to beat the crap out of the Ghostbusters. I'd watch that. I'm genuinely surprised that WSW didn't have a Ghostbusters tag team in the early 1990s now that I think about it. Yeah, I'm actually surprised by myself.
00:05:44
Speaker
considering all the other properties they were ripping off. Yeah, right. The show logo finishes it off with the same great dripping text logo as last year. Host Jim Ross welcomes us to the show, claiming that the arena is sold out. As noted, no, it isn't unless they completely reconfigured between 1987 and 1990 and cut a thousand seats, which seems unlikely. Yeah.
00:06:06
Speaker
After a few moments, we get a look at him, along with his co-host, Paul E. Dangerously, and they are in costumes. yeah Yes, WCW, yes. JR is a mobster, and Paul is a vampire. Paul mugs for the camera with his fangs, but spits them out almost immediately when it's his turn to talk, claiming he can't speak with them in. Paul uses Halloween and Havoc in the same sentence almost immediately, and builds up the four title matches while holding up his hand in Sign of the Four Horsemen.
00:06:36
Speaker
I cannot express how glad I was to see the costumes. Immediate acknowledgement that WSW is doing theme this time. That's after a pretty disappointing set and acknowledgement of it actually being Halloween last time.
Midnight Express vs. Morton and Rich
00:06:51
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. yeah We cut to the stage where Tony Schiavone is dressed like the Phantom of the Opera, and I could not be happier right now. The Phantom of the Schiavone. Yes, it's amazing.
00:07:05
Speaker
The stage set isn't very complicated yet, but it has some scattered pumpkins and a skeleton, along with a hanging pumpkin logo higher up with WSW on it, proving that they didn't buy everything from the party store this year. Nice. Tony is with Ricky Morton and wildfire Tommy Rich, who is still wearing nothing remotely suggestive of fire. It just... I'm sorry, it just bugs me. What? That's what's so wild about it, Bob. I guess so. It is pretty wild to have nothing to do with fire and call yourself wildfire.
00:07:34
Speaker
Morton's hair is done in a ponytail, which shook my reality. Morton without the mullet is just wrong. Yeah. Okay, Jim Ross and Pauly Daintersey, we're all in the Halloween spirit here tonight in our first encounter, the Ricky Horton of the Rock and Roll Express and Wildfire Tommy Rich together. That's right, Tony. First of all, I'd like to say hi to my partner, Robert Gibson, which I know you should watch this show and it won't be too long before Bad Street is under bad construction.
00:08:06
Speaker
But, you know, it's Halloween time. It's time for Trick or Treat. And baby, we're going to trick the Midnight Express tonight. You know what somebody says something about? The big treat's going to be. All the people out there tonight is going to see the greatest night of professional wrestling in the history of wrestling. All right. Yes, sir, daddy. OK, and here we go to the ring.
00:08:33
Speaker
Almost, Tony. Almost. Yeah. This was short, but it was nice to see the shout out to Gibson, who is out injured. And I liked the two making references to the Halloween theme. Morton does a good job of covering multiple subjects in a very short time without feeling like he's actually shortchanging any of them. Yeah. And both guys had good energy. Oddly, the lights went out briefly during the promo. I guess somebody bumped the wrong switch. They don't let it shake them, though, so that was good. Well, this is one day you're not going to get spooked, Bob. It's Halloween.
00:09:06
Speaker
That's true. Maybe the arena is haunted. And that was the ghost expressing his opinion on the show. but Yeah, there you go. I was fine. It was interesting to to start with an interview right at the got the ramp and then go right to a match. That is true. Yeah, that's unusual. Not a bad format idea, but it's just still different. It's better than um oftentimes them having the interview right after the match when the wrestler is out of breath and trying to remember what the heck he wanted to say. Well, he tries to catch his breath.
Sting vs. The Black Scorpion's Magic Trick
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah, that last A to B way, uh, show Loma Toga on that. Yeah. Like everyone. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we give these guys are like a ah water or something. Yeah. So our first match, which we had to immediately is Ricky Morton and wildfire, Tommy, rich versus the midnight express, beautiful Bobby Eaton and sweet Stan Lane with Jim Cornett. The referee for this one is Nick Patrick.
00:10:01
Speaker
So Robert Gibson would go down with the legit knee injury and they would turn into story with the free birds. The ideas of free birds are attacking people and trying to injure them figuring a TV needed to beat them that they just can't actually wrestle you, which fair enough. Can't argue that logic. Yeah. The pivot here is that instead of giving us the big match between the free birds and I guess one half of the rock and roll express, the mini express figure, this is the best time to challenge the rock and roll express to a match. Cause Hey, yeah, there's only one of them.
00:10:30
Speaker
They're convinced going into this early on, at least when they pitch it, that they're gonna fight Rick and Morton in a handicap match. Like, Hey, let's get back at our long storied rivals while they're down and weak. Exactly. Ah, the noble competition. But then surprise, surprise, he finds a former, albeit for like two days, world champion to help fight alongside him. Morton and Rich are out first to basic classic rock.
00:10:59
Speaker
Tommy Rich looks like he belongs in the team right until he takes the jacket off and is just Tommy Rich. Yeah. You couldn't get him any kind of Rock and Roll Express tights, guys, or even a matching color version of his normal gear. Yeah, it should give him some frills or something, the little tassels that hang on the pants. Yeah. Yeah. The Midnight Express have nice red, black and gold robes, and Stan Lane has exceptional hair tonight. Mm-hmm.
00:11:24
Speaker
That's true. Bobby Eaton brushes off the crowds booing, but Lane smiles and blows kisses like they're cheering him. Excellent delusional heel work. Mm hmm. Cornette in a purple suit looks like he's trying to cosplay as the Joker.
00:11:37
Speaker
very possibly. yeah Speaking of color, the ring is a really interesting color scheme tonight that I don't recall us seeing on any other show. Mm hmm. The blue apron is pretty normal, but the ropes are orange with the middle rope mixing in the black stripes, which fits the Halloween theme. Yeah. But the ring mat is a deep burgundy. Yeah, it's it's not a bad look. It's just really unusual. And it kind of messes with the color palette of the show.
00:12:05
Speaker
I almost feel like they have, you know, they have a guy that makes a ring, like, Hey, can you make an orange ring match? We have an orange ring and everything. They go, yeah, i had no problem. I can do it. Whatever. Then like the day of the show, it it gets delivered and they go, Oh, well, guess we're stuck with it. Yeah. Do we use this one or the one, the one we have storage, which is definitely not orange. more More likely somebody was, uh, holding a pre-match party and accidentally tripped with a hopeful barrel of wine. Drench the thing.
00:12:35
Speaker
The third option is of course, that there was an hour long match between Rick Flair and grit and Buddha. It was a nice, a nice white ring. Now it's just that color. yes Oh It just, I just kept noticing it throughout the show. Like I said, it's not bad. It's just so unusual that you can't help but be drawn to it. Yeah, exactly.
Freebirds vs. Renegade Warriors
00:12:57
Speaker
Cornet does the intros for the Midnights, noting that they scare more men than Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi combined. Yep, we realize it's Halloween this time. Yes. We don't realize it's 1990, but we do realize it's Halloween. Lane gives him a cheesy thumbs up as Cornet is introduced afterwards. Lane it seems to be in a great mood tonight. He does. As we start, JR claims there's not an empty seat. As we discussed before, Starrcade 1987 had a thousand more people, so there's at least a thousand empty seats.
00:13:27
Speaker
He wishes Gibson a speedy recovery. Paul wants to know why Morton selected Rich and says Rednecks can't rock and roll, getting in a jab about JR's Oklahoma in the process. Morton and Eaton start. JR accidentally calls Eaton Gibson, inadvertently predicting the future feud between Gibson and a corrupted Richard Morton next year. Yeah, that's true.
00:13:49
Speaker
After an initial shoving match, Eaton frustrates Morton with hip tosses, but Morton punches him in midair on a top rope move, and later gets a Hurricanrana. Rich sneaks in an elbow from outside, and Lane gets in to challenge Morton, but Patrick maintains order. Morton wins a slugfest with Eaton, but Eaton sneakily tags Lane while being knocked to the ropes, and Lane jumps in to double team the unaware Morton.
00:14:12
Speaker
Ricky Morton does what he does best. Take an extended beatdown in an exciting manner. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Paul questions why the Midnights are working on Morton instead of Rich. That's kind of up to Morton, Paul. He would have to tag out for them to work on Rich. Yeah, yeah. Rich, who hasn't even tagged in yet, repeatedly accidentally distracts the rep with his protests on Morton's behalf, allowing copious cheating and even causing the ref to miss a smooth Morton sunset flip.
00:14:39
Speaker
If the angle was that Tommy Rich was a traitor, this would be the perfect setup. Yeah. He's an awful partner. Mm-hmm. The Midnight Express earned two counts with a lane drop toe hold into an Eaton elbow drop, lane pin in the ring off an Eaton rocket launcher on the ramp, and Eaton rope rebound backbreaker, which was so cool. Oh, yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
Morton fights back with a Hurricanrana outside and gets an inside cradle for two in the ring, but Eaton hits his top rope leg drop, then asks for a ten count, wanting to humiliate Morton. Morton gets up at eight. JR says that was a big mistake. He wanted to humiliate Morton, but
Steiners vs. Nasty Boys
00:15:18
Speaker
he might have passed a chance to win with a pin. Lane lands his terrific kicks, but Morton runs him into the turnbuckle and fires up with a punch combo, but collapses from fatigue.
00:15:30
Speaker
Lane tags Eaton and slams Morton, then Rocket launches Eaton at him, but Morton gets the knees up. Eaton tags Lane, but Morton tags Rich. Rich, in the match for the first time, runs wild with punches, a slam, and a thespress on Lane for one, broken by Eaton. Everybody into brawl, and Rich goes up, but with Patrick distracted breaking up Morton and Eaton, Gornet nails Rich with the tennis racket.
00:15:56
Speaker
but then the southern boys suddenly appear on the ramp, allegedly dressed like Jim Cornette. One has a fat suit on and both have brightly colored suits, glasses, and rackets. One of them hits Cornette. Meanwhile, Lane pins Rich for two, but while Patrick is distracted by the chaos, Rich gets the racket and hits Lane. Morton leaps off the top rope to hit Eaton on the ramp, preventing him from breaking up the pin, and Rich gets the three count and the win.
00:16:23
Speaker
Morton and Rich walk off as Morton makes some hand gestures. Looks like a one, a five, and a hug. Maybe a message to Gibson. Oh, yeah, baby. Thoughts on this one? As a whole, I thought this was a pretty good match. Thanks to four people. One of them was not Tommy Rich, of course, but you know, I'm including credit because this was definitely a great showcase for him. Cause even we'd not actively in the match and he's not necessarily as assertive. Like the one match we we we covered where, you know, he tries to fight the ref and all these things. Oh yes. That was so funny. There's still a lot of good with him, a character on the outside and you're fearing constantly in little ways.
00:17:00
Speaker
Obviously Morton is a great face in peril. He does his keep fighting, keep fighting thing really well. The express are really good at being just really mean heels. The key to this match is you have to really think that they're just truly evil and truly just mean because they could definitely paint him as noted, but they keep painting moves just because it's, I guess cause it's fun to hit moves on him and because they really want to humiliate him.
00:17:24
Speaker
I think after this many years of beating up Ricky Morton, they've just like got a taste for it. So yeah, that's fair. Yeah. So the whole thing really hinges upon the fact that you accept that they just don't actually try to win the match. They really just want to extend punishment in him, which I can buy to a certain extent, but it goes on a little bit much, I think, but it's still quite enjoyable as a whole. It is impressive how ineffectual as a partner, rich is.
00:17:51
Speaker
It's amazing.
Horsemen vs. Doom Tag Team Championship
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah. He's in for a little bit and he's immediately taken out with a racket shot and almost loses the match for them. Like I said, if the angle was that the moment that Ricky Morton turns Tommy Rich in, Rich is going to punch him or just charge in and get pinned immediately. Either of those, that the setup would be perfect for. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a lot more of a one sided beat down than even the normal express matches are with Gibson in them, but still quite enjoyable.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah, I would say this was three quarters of a really good Rock and Roll Express versus Midnight Express match. All it's missing is Robert Gibson's part of the match. Not just Robert Gibson, Robert Gibson's part of the match. Yes. Yeah. Tommy Rich does basically nothing for the entire match. They virtually entirely skipped the usual starting segment where Morton and his partner start strong, and they just go straight to Morton getting in trouble, and that's the whole match.
00:18:43
Speaker
I think we joke well watching the first time that either of us could be as good a partner because he's not doing anything. Yes. Yeah, I i could do Tommy Rich's role in this match. Yeah, I could say I could stand here. I'm good. Yeah, I think either of us could do what he does for, you know, 90 percent of this match. Honestly, even his ah you know running wild segment after he gets tagged in, I'm pretty sure I could do most of what he does. I could definitely fall the top rope. Yeah, that too. Yes.
00:19:09
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I don't normally say that about wrestling. i I respect the effort these guys put in and I'm sure that Tommy Rich is very capable of things that I would not be capable of, but I don't think you really get to see that in this match at all. No. Yeah, I'm hoping we get like a really good Tommy Rich match somewhere in these because our experience recently has not been great. I would love to see what the guy could actually do. I don't think we've gotten to see that.
00:19:32
Speaker
And I kind of wonder with this one, considering the incredible lack of use of him in this match, did they just not have time to rehearse with him, not to have time to plan with him? Were they not aware of what he could do? It it feels like they have him out because they're not sure of that many spots with him or something. They don't think they can work with him yet or they didn't have time. I don't know. It's a very strange feeling to this match.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah, I get you. ah Now I will say this match, I checked the timing on and it's about 14 minutes long from the opening bell to the end. But according to Wikipedia, this is over 20 minutes long.
00:20:15
Speaker
So it's entirely possible that there was rich content in the match at some point and it was cut. Maybe. It's clearly not just the entrances being counted in the time as the whole show was only at about 18 minutes in when this match ended. Gotcha. Obviously it's entirely possible that Wikipedia is just wrong. Sure, yeah. Someone didn't get the time right or grabbed it from another show as I believe has sometimes happened. Mm-hmm. But it's also entirely possible that this match was trimmed down and we just didn't see where the seams were. and Maybe. It's very possible, of course.
00:20:44
Speaker
In any case, while I really love me some Ricky Morton selling, it feels really strange to have that to be the entire match. It's still really entertaining to watch. After all, it's Ricky Morton versus the Midnight Express, but it's a seriously unbalanced match. It is a testament to the men involved that it does not get monotonous. But there is much better rock and roll versus midnight stuff. Still, it's a decent opener.
00:21:09
Speaker
So most notably, the Amina Express would leave the NWA after this show. It would basically come down to pay dispute. They more money to cover road expenses, et cetera, et cetera. Man of it doesn't want to pay them that, so they left. Now notably, Eaton did not leave right away. Eaton actually stays around for about a year or so, and then he's out.
00:21:29
Speaker
But this is the last time in this straight timeline that is that we'll see coordinate and Stan Lane in the interview at all. They never make wow make a return at any point. That's so sad because, well, this is not a bad match by any means. It's sad that they couldn't go out on a match against the legit full rock and roll express. Agreed.
00:21:53
Speaker
but I think we know why they really left. They were afraid of Tommy Rich. You know? His raw power. It's very possible, yeah. They couldn't take the wildfire. Yeah, I'm sure that's probably what it was.
00:22:09
Speaker
As far as you expressed, we'll cover more of their stuff later because that relates to a later match. Okay.
00:22:15
Speaker
We cut to the side of the stage where Phantom of the Shivani brings in Sting to a massive, massive cheer. Sting's pink face paint clashes with his not at all pink shiny tiger stripe coat. Yeah.
00:23:44
Speaker
I'm waiting for my cue. Why haven't they started the next day
00:24:00
Speaker
I wanted able to show you a sample of my black magic. I have waited state for this moment.
00:24:14
Speaker
come a you
00:24:23
Speaker
right The black scorpions black magic will be too much too powerful for you say hi
00:24:45
Speaker
a
00:24:48
Speaker
a here
00:24:59
Speaker
Uh, so what happens there is that the Black Scorpion grabs a stagehand and takes her into a frame which he covers with a curtain. Sting runs to the rescue, but is stopped for no good reason by security guys who really should probably be stopping the kidnapping rather than stopping the guy trying to stop the kidnapping. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker
They don't say it, but there might be a possible excuse for this. They did a thing very recently on TV, recently to the show, obviously, where the black woman said he he could possess people. So Sting was like oh paranoid and he was looking for somebody. And then this lady that definitely a real crowd number ran him and started punching them till the skirt took him away. So maybe he possessed them, but they don't say that. So it it looks like security is like, wait, wait, what are you doing? Don't, don't stop that kidnapping.
00:25:48
Speaker
Yeah, it would be nice to have, like, if if J.R. or Paul had said, oh my goodness, he's possessed the security team. Watch out, Sting, or something like that. If that was the intent, that'd be nice, yeah. It would also, like, make it for, like, a scary magical trick than what we are getting here, but... Yes. In any case, Sting finally breaks free, and Pyro goes off on the stage as the curtain falls, revealing that the Black Scorpion and the woman are gone. More Pyro goes off, and Scorpion and the woman just reappear where Sting had been talking with Tony. Yes.
00:26:17
Speaker
Scorpion throws the woman into the arms of a charging Sting and retreats, telling Sting that they will meet again. Sting is amazed and befuddled, as apparently he's never seen a basic stage magic act in his life. David Cobbfield is a mystery to him. JR is confused, and Paul sounds like he just witnessed the arrival of Dred Cthulhu himself and failed several sanity checks in a row. he really He really sells that segment. His reaction? I have to play his reaction, it's so funny. Oh yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
Paul sounded like a bewildered kindergartner there. It's great. Yeah, it really is. it's it Yeah, it's like if you're we do the like coin behind the ear trick to a kid i like when they're when they're like five or six and they've been like the rest of the day just trying to figure out in their mind how that happened. Oh, my gosh. I have a hand. No, it's the coin. But it was a coin. And it's like where the coins come from. It's so funny. Yeah.
00:27:56
Speaker
Okay, so taking this in parts. We got a perfectly acceptable Sting promo with some good energy, a few odd word choices, but generally good. Sting does a great job of building up Sid, and I love his cheesy joke when Tony's listing Sid's stats and he says, and he's vicious too. yeah Good dad jokes, Sting. He and Tony have to stall a bit at the end for the Scorpion segment to start, but they do fine.
00:28:20
Speaker
The Black Scorpion segment is so wonderfully goofy. I'm so glad we finally got to see an actual one of these because we had Black Scorpion obviously at Stargate 1990. But all we got was him coming down in the weird UFO thing. They didn't do like a full narration and and ah stupid magic tricks and and that kind of stuff. So yeah, I'm always disappointed that we didn't ah get to share a true Black Scorpion thing with John when he was hosting with us. Absolutely. Yeah. Love to send him this segment.
00:28:49
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, for sure. The timing for this is all wrong. Yeah. Sting is going to get there too fast. So he kind of has to awkwardly stand there for a moment before the security guys get there to actually hold him back.
00:29:01
Speaker
Well, he eat waits a minute before he hops down from the podium as well. Yeah. He's like, I want to see what this guy's doing here. I kind of feel like Sting recognizes, OK, the security guys that are supposed to be there to interrupt me aren't there. So I'm going to hold out here for a second. OK, now they seem to be moving. I'll i'll go down. And then he's like, oh, crap, I've gotten there too fast. I have to have to wait for them again. It's just like everything feels like it goes wrong in that segment. Yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
And then everybody acts like a basic stage magic trick is a mind-bending encounter with Eldritch Horror. Genuinely, I have to ask, why is what happened scary? Even if you assume that the Scorpion legitimately has teleportation powers rather than is doing a stage magic trick, let's embrace the reality of the show for a second and say the Scorpion actually has magic. He actually did teleport with the woman. All he did was teleport with someone about 20 feet and give them back to Sting.
00:29:57
Speaker
He didn't kidnap her. He didn't make her disappear fully where she never comes back or anything like that. He was just like, here, take a short trip. Here you go. Back to Sting. That's not terrifying.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah, there's a, what there's one, they did, I think it's on one of the clash, the champion shows, or it's it's on the clash or it might be on the regular TV. They do one where he like throws someone in a cage and they do that all the stalling. And then when the curtain moved away as a tiger in the cage to the person. So that at least as weird as that is, at least it's like, okay, that's different. You turned a lady to a tiger, I guess.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, if presumably the person is still an animal and living in a zoo somewhere, then that's terrifying. Yeah, that's that's a scary thing that happens. But being teleported 20 feet and just tossed back to Sting is.
00:30:45
Speaker
It's interesting, it would be a fascinating thing to see someone actually demonstrate teleportation abilities, but it it's not a terrifying thing. it's It's not like, oh my gosh, this guy is so frightening. It'd be one thing if there was any chance that WSW could actually use teleportation in a match, but since the Black s Scorpion cannot actually teleport, especially since he's actually Rick Flair, though not at this point. Hey.
00:31:13
Speaker
there's no way that there's going to be any payoff to this magic stuff so actually that this this in story and is a very important moment for starade bob yeah so doing this trick doing is using his power is here i' say use this doing this trick but using his powers here the black cor realized that Can't think of a new strategy for his match as darkade coming up because his plan was going to be to teleport with sting, but he realized, okay, so I could start the magic and lock up a sting. I think a teleport is both outside the ring and then we'll both leave the account out. Wait, no, that wouldn't work. I went with the title. All right. Plan B, plan B. so And so, so he realizes that later tonight, actually. Yes. Yeah. Correct. It all fits together. Exactly.
00:31:57
Speaker
I have to say, this this goes right around from stupid to massively entertaining, thanks largely to Paul D. Dangerously. He oversells that with just such beautifully earnest dedication that I could not help but love it. Yeah. Say what you want about these bits. They are stupid in the extreme, but everyone really does try their best to make them work. It's an entertainingly awful idea in the best WCW tradition.
00:32:21
Speaker
Yeah, the thing is, if if the rest of the show was terrible, like if every match sucked, but we still had this segment, it still wouldn't be a waste of time to watch the show. So like, I'm glad we watched this bizarre, stupid thing happening. Yeah, yeah. It's it's so weird, isn't it? Like sometimes the worst stuff that WSW does in terms of actual quality is yeah sometimes like the best reason to watch their show. Yeah. Because they're so earnest about it. Yeah, exactly.
00:32:47
Speaker
It's it's it's the funniest thing that, like, if I'm completely honest, this segment sucked. Like, it was absolutely awful. Of course, yeah. But I would watch this segment again like 10 times in a row today because it is so funny. Mm hmm. Plus you have Ole Anderson's yes ridiculous voice. Oh, my gosh.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah. Oli Anderson trying to sound like not Oli Anderson, but sounds scary, which he can only do while sounding like Oli Anderson. Yes. Well, bear in mind too. So Oli Anderson did the voice for these bits, but the black scorpion and all this teasing vignettes. And yet three years later, they didn't learn how silly this was. Yes. When they brought him in to voice the shock master, which, Oh my gosh, I forgot that. Oh, that's also him. Yes. Oh, that's so great. Never learned from your mistakes. i said You never learned from your mistakes.
00:33:38
Speaker
Nope, nope. So a second that begins with Sting botching a line from Top Gun to his I'm so excited, i' you know, it's always his cover when he messes up a line or gets out of space. I'm just so excited. Yes. And people will just go, yeah, OK, sure, it's fine. Because I mean, that it kind of is what what is happening. It is a good cover. Like it makes sense. If you're really energized and excited, you're more likely to stumble over your words a little bit. And Sting is a high energy guy, so it sounds totally legit, honestly.
00:34:08
Speaker
Actually thinking about it, this might be a key reason why for the longest time, Black and White Scorpion Sting didn't talk. Because if he messed up a promo as Crow Sting, he couldn't do that. I'm so excited to have her for it because, you know, he's, he's brooding and moody. That that is true. Yeah. I could see that being a thing. and Like I think 90% of it is probably them wanting him to be mysterious, but of course. Yeah. But I could see, yeah. If Sting gets a little bit ahead of himself on a promo or something, he doesn't have his normal excuses.
00:34:38
Speaker
ah One other detail I really like to point out as well is, so right before the end of the segment where the black woman reappears and on the other side with the lady, you can see Tony Schiavone look, see him coming and then move out of the way so he's not there because they're coming at his side. In case you didn't figure out, they literally just run around the the stage and come on the other side. Just in case, you know, the he children listen to this, they're going to figure out how the trick works. Or Paul Heyman.
00:35:05
Speaker
That's true. Yeah. The second that curtain is down, they book it up the back and they're running around the other side. Now you can do that same kind of trick for like on a bigger stage. What you do is you would have twins, but this is going to be the same lady and him just running the other side. If Copperfield, you know, or someone like that does a trick like that.
00:35:25
Speaker
And an actual professional magician. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll appear on the stage and then they'll appear like on the balcony or something. And that's what you have. You have a twin of the person and and they can swap back and forth like that. You just proceed your way through. But yeah, this segment would is just it's all gloriously dumb. Yes.
00:35:44
Speaker
So our second match, which somehow we go to a match after that madness, is the Renegade Warriors, Chris and Mark Youngblood versus the Fabulous Freebirds, Michael P.S. Hayes and Jimmy Jam Garvin with Little Richard Marley. The referee for this one is Randy Anderson.
00:36:03
Speaker
Quick note, by the way, just for timing. We covered all the matches that were cut. Three of them all happened right between the first match in that segment and then this match. Assuming the times are right on Wikipedia, which we covered May or not be, you've got about almost 12 minutes for Terry Taylor, another five minutes for Armstrong, and then close to seven to eight minutes for the masterclass. So you have a good 25, maybe 30 minutes if this time is right and then with intros cut and just rip right out of this show.
00:36:32
Speaker
So the crowd and Paul Heyman are no longer as shocked and stunned and in awe of the Eldritch Horror that they just witnessed as we are. Yeah, if this order was true, like if this was the legit order of the of the show, you think during the Renegade Warriors match, they'd be talking about what just happened, but it's been like 30 minutes or they're past it. Yeah, I assume that Paul was just catatonic for the next match afterwards.
00:36:56
Speaker
Honestly, I would love to be to confirm that. That but that would be a great selling. If it's just yeah like, I think I called Matt by myself. My partner's still just get populated or something. Anyhow.
00:37:07
Speaker
As I know before, the storyline with the free bridge is that they're at a kick of injuring people. Nobody, they do Robert Gibson. They also do Alan Iron Eagle, who is not actually Native American, by the way, as it's a shock to you, that is a fake Native American in wrestling, or just a fake person of and know general ethnicity in wrestling, I should say. Cause there's a lot, fair that covers a broad spectrum. Whole, whole bunch of fake Russians too. So yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually Joe Gomez.
00:37:35
Speaker
ah who you would know later as as Joe Gomez. Well, I see you know, the Joe Gomez, if you watch Nitro all the time in the late 90s, he was always a tag part of the Renegade after they dropped the whole character, the Renegade. He just kind of hung around losing. that It all connects. Yeah, I know. Right. The Renegade. Yes, exactly.
00:37:57
Speaker
But yeah, so it's another year where there's a young team that plans for the Freebirds. Now, these is a little more story to this one, because in this one, I had noted there was a six-man tag match where Alan Iron Eagle was teaming with the Renegade Warriors against the Freebirds and Bear Horowitz, coming up twice in the show. That's a big record for him. Nice. And then the match they injure him. So this is a revenge angle with the Renegade Warriors. Little note I found as well while researching them.
00:38:25
Speaker
They actually had a pretty lengthy career before, after this in the WWC or the world wrestling council in Puerto Rico. Notable because they worked there for a while. And then they left after the whole bruiser proteins. And it happened where none of the people in charge when were going to testify, but the, let's say it murder that happened there. So they, uh, like, yeah, I don't want to work here anymore. Understandable. Yes.
00:38:50
Speaker
That's probably why they're here. That happened about two years before of this show. So that led to them leaving that company and coming here. The Renegade Warriors sounds like a tag team between the Ultimate Warrior and his WSW ripoff. Yeah, yeah. Rather than the Native American themed tag team that it is. Mm hmm.
00:39:09
Speaker
By the way, we have seen Mark the Youngblood before. We saw him way, way, way back on Starrcade 1983, our first official episode. Yeah. He was teaming with Wahoo McDaniel against Bob Orton and Dick Slater. That's right. His brother, Jay Youngblood, was also on that show teaming with Ricky Steamboat against the Briscoe brothers. Mm-hmm. But the other brother, Chris, is new to us. Yes. They come out in pink Native American themed outfits with drumming as their entrance music.
00:39:38
Speaker
one of them carrying a drum, drums to the rhythm, but the illusion falls apart when he stops drumming as he nears the end of the ramp and the music keeps going. yeah It is their first pay-per-view per JR. yes The Freebirds come out in very flamboyant outfits, including some quite random glam rock makeup.
00:39:56
Speaker
yeah JR points out that Marley, who he calls Rocky King, his original ring name, is dressed in tights like Robert Gibson's. So that's why Tommy Rich couldn't get them. JR is disgusted with the Freebirds for taunting Gibson after injuring him. He realizes moments later that Marley is also acting injured with a bandaged leg and cane, which does not improve his feelings towards the Freebirds. No, it's not. Hayes really enjoys his music. He does, yeah. The glittery suspenders are an interesting look.
00:40:27
Speaker
yeah So, let's see if the crowd turns on another young babyface team in favor of the Freebirds, shall we? Yes, let's see. It's Hayes versus Mark to start, as JR aggressively criticizes the Freebirds and Marley, and yells at Paul for even slightly defending them.
00:40:45
Speaker
Mark dominates the early going with chops and turnbuckle rams and Chris dives off the top to close line both free birds. Paul accuses JR of taking pleasure in this and JR says that unlike Paul, JR has friends in wrestling and one of them is Robert Gibson who the free birds hurt. Paul says JR is taking things personally and JR says you're right. I am. There you go. Excellent work by JR. It's cool to see the the normally professional JR get personally invested.
00:41:11
Speaker
huh A frustrated haze eventually tags Garvin as Paul namedrops Ray the Crippler Stevens, who we saw as commentator for AWA Super Clash 3. Oh yeah. I think he was also on one or two of the early slamberees as one of the honorees. I believe so, yes.
00:41:28
Speaker
Mark tags Chris, who continues dominating. Chris gives some very strange yells with his moves. He does like it this along and like, oh, that sounds more like he's reacting to someone giving a particularly clever insult. Yeah, yeah it's it's really strange. Mm hmm.
00:41:45
Speaker
Garvin rakes the eyes, but Chris floats over a slam and rolls him up for two, only for Garvin's kickout to send him right into Haze's excellent left straight, allowing Garvin to take over. Garvin, Haze, and occasionally Marley work together to wear Chris down. JR tries a wordplay joke about Marley being a gopher for the free birds, linking that to the animal gopher, and saying that he sees his shadow, only to realize midway through that that would be a groundhog.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yes, yes. Impressively, Paul doesn't pile on that. Yeah, yeah. The Freebirds expertly cheat, and whenever the ref lectures one for cheating, the other cheats behind the ref's back. Mark accidentally distracts the ref a few times, too. The crowd starts chanting for the DDT, and there's some noticeable cheers for the Freebirds, but at least the Warriors are not getting actively booed like the Dynamic Dudes were. That's true, yes.
00:42:37
Speaker
Two counts off a Hayes running elbow drop and a Chris crossbody. Hayes signals and everybody thinks that he's going for the DDT, but instead he goes up top and Chris Flarekarmas him down. Tags to Garvan and Mark, and Mark runs wild with back body drops, double axe handles, and a double noggin knocker as Chris joins back in with a flying double clothesline. They do get some slight cheers and polite applause.
00:43:02
Speaker
Marley gets to the apron, so Chris throws him in and they struggle, forcing Anderson to come to try to separate them. Meanwhile, Mark floats over a Garvan Slam and rolls Garvan up, but Hayes takes advantage of Anderson's distraction to DDT Mark. Chris chases Marley, not realizing that Garvan is pinning Mark, and when he figures it out, Marley grabs him so that Garvan earns the three count and the win.
00:43:25
Speaker
Marley celebrates exuberantly. Hayes quietly walks to the ramp, perhaps trying to figure out just how much of a heel he's going to have to act like to stop crowds from cheering him over young face teams. Thoughts on this one?
00:43:40
Speaker
It's a decent match. The main problem is I would say is that I don't know if they had this whole thing planned out really well, because there's a lot of let's stop, do a long chin lock and it's good that we prepped the next section. Just either mind what we're doing, blah, blah, blah. We're not going to worry on a bad team per se, but other than their look and that this sort of identity they have.
00:44:03
Speaker
You don't really get a feel for how unique their style is. No. As much as the anime dudes got booed and understandably and respectfully earned at the last show, they had their own unique moveset. So it's not just, hey, we're we're just guys in this weird outfits or different outfits. I didn't really get that much of a feel of how unique a wrestler or a team, the Renegade Warriors really were in this match.
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah, it felt to me like this was a match that you would have with a rookie tag team. Mm hmm. But we know that at least one of these guys has been wrestling since 1983. Yeah. So it feels very strange that the match is laid out this way. Yes. It feels like this is a match where the free birds have to carefully lead them through the match and pause frequently to say, OK, this is the next bit. Here's how you do it. Mm hmm. It feels like this team should have more experience than than that.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah, Christian blood. I believe he started teaming with his brother after Jay died, unfortunately. So I think even this isn't like they're new to being a team as well. I think they've been wrestling together for quite a while. Yeah. Yeah. I will get one positive note.
00:45:11
Speaker
We didn't mention the last match, but the big hot tag to Tommy Rich in that match had the commander roll into tag, which is great. Yes. This match also has the commander roll into a tag. We're two for two. Very nice. We are truly being spoiled on this show.
00:45:30
Speaker
Oh no, it's not a bad match. I think the pacing is just kind of off. The regular Warriors are good, but they don't have anything to really stand out match wise. And ultimately the finish is kind of prolonged. Marley is distracting for quite a while before anything actually happens. He's got to be there like before the rope even starts. So it feels like at a certain point, the ref should really have gotten to leave and you know, the other guy in the, the face teams really should have stopped paying attention to him at a certain point.
00:45:59
Speaker
They excuse it a little bit because Chris grabs Marley. Yeah. He's like he's he's incensed at him too, so he actually intentionally goes after him rather than it all being on Marley's part. That's true. yeah And Marley just takes advantage of that and kind of like grabs him in return.
00:46:15
Speaker
which one means that he's just defending himself and don't get the team disqualified and two serves to kind of like prolong his involvement a little bit. So I didn't have a massive problem with it, but I do see what you're saying. Like it feels like it takes a little bit of extra time to get where they're going with it. Yeah, exactly.
00:46:34
Speaker
This was a standard but capable tag formula match. It's basically take the previous match, add an opener where the faces actually get some offense, subtract Berkey Morton, which is a big thing to subtract admittedly, yep and add glam rock makeup. WSW has got to stop putting the very interesting and charismatic free birds up against generic face teams that barely have a gimmick.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. The crowd didn't turn on the Warriors near as much as with the Dudes last year, but large chunks of the crowd were pretty clearly more interested in Haze and Garvan than in the Warriors. The Free Bridge used too many chinlocks, but they did a fine job as heels otherwise, and Chris was an acceptable face imperil for the most part, though he never seemed to get particularly close to tagging out until the end.
00:47:18
Speaker
He also really seemed to undersell Hayes' left punch. Normally that sold as a total game changer that shakes someone up for a long while, but he kind of sold it just like it was a reasonably hard punch. It's a momentary stunt, not a signature move to him. Yeah, I see that. And like you, I didn't feel the Warriors had much that they did that was distinctive in any way. I can't recall any cool double teams or much teamwork in general. They're good at what they do, but it feels totally standard. Exactly, yeah.
00:47:47
Speaker
This might have gone over a little bit better on the original show. On this, Chris has to follow the master of face and peril, Ricky Morton himself. But on the original show, as you pointed out, three full matches were between this and the first match. So there's a little bit more time to get some distance between a reasonable tag match and, you know, an absolute master class face and peril performance that we got like immediately before. Mm hmm. Exactly.
00:48:13
Speaker
Not a bad match still, but notable more for JR's excellent emotional commentary than anything else. So I mentioned before, Tommy Rich and Ricky Morton would go and have the red match against Free Birds at Darkade, this time with the injured Robert Gibson at their side. So he's on the show, you know, he's not fully out of recovery yet. Unfortunately, this is also like being the first pay-per-view match for the Renegade Warriors. It's also the only pay-per-view match for the Renegade Warriors. so Yeah, they ended up leaving in WSW in May, although the last Hellfire match would actually be a loss on TV in January. Dang it January. Yeah, I know, right? So the Starrcade 1990 match, that's the one that broke John, isn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't understand what's happening.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah, I forgot that. Speaking of people having a reaction like they've seen it something of Eldritch horror. I'm going to have to go back and listen to John's reaction to that match again. That was so funny. Oh, yeah. Every every time ah that was good. We cut back to Tony of the Opera, who is with Rick Flair, Arne Anderson and Sid Vicious. Flair has his sparkly robe and Arne has his best dad glasses and WCW crew shirt.
00:49:29
Speaker
Was Arn helping set up the ring earlier or did he just forget to pack a four horseman shirt and borrow that one instead? It's also interesting I noticed on when I was doing my notes, he has it tucked in at the front and hanging loose in the back. So it's like, did you I think he just like pulled it on real quick just before they went on. Yeah, probably. Crap, I forgot a shirt.
00:49:50
Speaker
All right,
00:50:01
Speaker
In a short time, four men get to enter that ring with no good guy, bad guy scenario. Four men in front of the entire world get to be all men. No strings attached. The prize, the World Tag Team titles.
00:50:22
Speaker
Dude, don't rethink it, we are gonna ask anything from you. Just be there, be all the man you can be. Just remember one thing, if you wanna duck out the back door, the life you saved may be your own.
00:51:08
Speaker
take get out alive. And this is your treat, Sid Vicious, the man that rules the world. Force me forever. Alright, let's go back to ringside.
00:51:24
Speaker
So close, Tony. Yeah, I know. Maybe that's our follow up podcast about the ring crew. Oh, yeah, I'm sure people would love to hear that. Actually, that would be kind of interesting. Yeah, I in no way am qualified to host that, but but it would be interesting. Yeah. A good segment here, I think, aren't built up the match and the toughness of all four men very well and ended with a truly excellent line in the life you say, baby, your own. Mm hmm. That was great.
00:51:52
Speaker
Flair actually didn't say much, shockingly, but he came off as self-assured and did his job of cueing Sid, and Sid did a nice bit of wordplay with the Halloween theme. I will say, though, I don't think either he or the Wharton Rich combo get that the phrase is trick or treat, not trick and treat. That's true. They've all treated as you get the trick and you get the treat. Yeah.
00:52:14
Speaker
Also, how is Sid a treat for Sting exactly? I will say it's still one of the better bits of promo work from Sid and that's not intended as a backhanded compliment. No, I got you. He was intense and he was threatening and that's what he needed to be. This promo segment is a really good way to test the volume on any devices you're listening to us on.
00:52:34
Speaker
aren't your baseline aren't as cool calculated. I'm trying to figure get the source of that ending line. I feel like that must have been from like a commercial or something. Yeah. Um, there definitely were some around that time. I think they use that line. It might've been like a drunk driving commercial. I was thinking the same thing. Yeah. I can't remember exactly, but I definitely have heard that exact phrase. so The only thing you'd find was that there's a book by a guy named Flannery O'Connor. That's about that. I'm like, I don't think it's way referencing, but probably not.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah. Again, aren't your baseline, that Flair is just a little bit louder. Flair is just his natural, if aren't his 10, Flair is a 12. Again, this is cool, confident Flair. He's just, he's just inherently louder. Especially at the start of his promo. He's always getting attention right away. That gets loud and then evenings out. Yeah. And then Sid is about a 15 or 16. Just from the get-go. Just bellowing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:32
Speaker
i'd Like you, I did enjoy Sid's promo as well. It's not a lot to it, but it really does fit his character and everything. Everything worked. Yeah. all All three of them did a good job. It is notable that this match was supposed to feature very Wyndham early on, but then they switched to Flare, which may not be important later. I'm sure it's nothing. Yeah. It probably took one since the plus side is that we got a Flare promo out of that switch. Yes. Yeah. Even if it's a short one. Mm-hmm.
00:54:03
Speaker
Our third match is the Nasty Boys, Jerry Saggs and Brian Dobbs versus the Steiner brothers, Rick and Scott, for the Steiner's NWA United States Tag Team Championship. Referee for this one is Mike Atkins. The Nasty Boys were going to be in August of this year, dominating and beating up jobbers for quite a bit. They made it very clear in promos that they want the gold.
00:54:25
Speaker
They do have an angle about a month before the show, which is mentioned in commentary of how after a Steiner Brothers match, they get attacked by the nasty boys beaten up with chairs and then taken out and stretched out of the arena. So really selling them as a threat, thus setting this match up properly. And this is interesting because this is the nasty boys, I think three years before any other match that we've seen them in, because they're they're only in here for a short period, I think at this time. Correct. Yes. Mm hmm. So teaser things are to come.
00:54:54
Speaker
During the Nasties entrance, we get a really good look at the stage design, and it's quite a nice early effort. We have the big, slightly crooked WCW logo of this time, plus a bunch of scattered pumpkins, plus another WCW logo, straighter, as the mouth of the jack-o'-lantern inside the sea in the big WCW. So would that be WCWCWW?
00:55:16
Speaker
ah Yes. Yeah, I think think that was the CW's website address.
00:55:22
Speaker
World Championship worthy competition, wondrous wrestling. Oh, yeah, that'd be that' that's their name in Japan, I think. Probably, yeah. Wrestling at the big egg. Mm hmm. Exactly.
00:55:35
Speaker
It's a pretty simple design overall, but it's good to see them going for the theme more this time, and we will see some truly wonderful sets down the line. Mm-hmm, absolutely. The Nasties get some rather nice pyro as well. A dude in the crowd wearing an I've Been Steinerized t-shirt has a Frankenstein's Monster Mask. JR takes the opportunity to build up the Frankensteiner. Good job all around there. Yeah. The Steiners also get some good pyro, in their case sparkly rather than fiery.
00:56:02
Speaker
Thank you, Al, for giving me a bit of a gift here, writing much of this match summary for me this time. No problem. So I didn't have to do four tag matches in a row. I figured you want a little bit of break there. Yeah. The Steiners rush the ring to fight and they immediately go to fighting on the outside. Record time. Scott takes a nasty shot to the back of the head, but still manages to counter a SAG superplex with a belly to belly from the top rope. SAGs also takes the super bulldog, but knobs break his up with a chair shot to take control.
00:56:32
Speaker
They work over Scott's back for a while with all the usual holds like an abdominal stretch and... Bare hugs? hu Swapping without tags whenever the ref gets distracted and getting two counts with a knobs power slam and sags powerbomb. They spike piledriver Scott as well but knobs breaks up sags pinned by mistake by stomping Scott. Rick gets frustrated and sneaks in the chair shot bloodying sags.
00:56:58
Speaker
JR references an earlier upset tonight, Brad Armstrong versus JW Storm, which was cut. Nothing like showing the seams, WCW. Scott finally Steiner line sags and tags Rick, who strikes hard and fast with Steiner lines and a double noggin knocker. Poor sags takes a flying clothesline to the back of his already injured head.
00:57:21
Speaker
Scott helps from outside to get Knobs alone and spikes him with the scariest Frankensteiner ever for the three count and the win. Scott wasn't legal. Yes. Knobs kind of like failed to complete the flip and landed right on his head there. Mm hmm. Yeah. The Stiners celebrate with their belts. WSW starts to go to replay, but the nasties attack. So the replay window amusingly flips back away so that we can watch.
00:57:48
Speaker
I love how WSW had a video transition perfectly queued up for this unexpected attack. That is amazing. Yeah. They're always so prepared. The Nasties use the title belts to beat up the Steiners and fling Atkins down hard, then run Rick shoulder first in the ring post, twice, before retreating as Scott recovers and goes after them with the belts, then turns back to check on Rick. Unfortunately, we get a replay of the worst Frankensteiner ever.
00:58:14
Speaker
So what looks like happened to me is that Knobs maybe be jumped at the wrong time anymore collided with Scott, then went over with him. So he lost all forward momentum and couldn't fully flip. Yeah. You can clearly see his head bounce off the mat. He is so lucky. Yeah. It's like if you've seen like, what's the early clips of Jake Roberts doing DDT? Like WrestleMania 3 I believe is the first one he does it to.
00:58:40
Speaker
Most people don't like roll over or roll through with an ET on his. They just go straight down. Obviously he, he covers their arms. So they, in this case, they're not really hitting their heads, but same effect abrasively. Just lean straight down into the into the mat and just take it hard.
00:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, the more common way of doing the DDT from other folks and ah and the way you see like Arne do it later is the guy doing kind of a flip. So they are allegedly hitting their head. But what they're really doing is flipping over and landing on their back. Exactly. But with Jake Roberts, one. i Yeah, I think you're right that he kind of kind of tends to do more of just like a straight down thing and he just carefully shields them so they don't actually take damage from it. We're going to take a stunt pile driver almost. damn Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:22
Speaker
And yeah, this looks uncomfortably like that, except that also Scott isn't aware it's going to go like that. So knobs goes straight down on his head and makes full contact. He is so lucky that he did not break his neck or end his career or end his life. It's one of the scariest things I have ever seen watching these shows. Yeah. Thoughts on the match?
00:59:46
Speaker
That was a pretty good match. One thing you can definitely say, it's very hard hitting. Yes. There is no pulling of punches or shots or anything in this match. Or Frankensteiners. That's true. Yes. ah There's an occurring theme, it seems like, of hanging people with chairs or the rest not looking. Good old nasty boys do it at some point and then the Stiners do it in return. Poor Jerry Saggs takes a pretty hard shot at the back of the head and is busted open, which is really rough looking.
01:00:10
Speaker
I will tell you another recurring theme in the match is Rick Steiner punching Brian Knobbs full in the face. Mm hmm. That is also true. Every time Knobbs interferes, it seems like Rick just slugs him really hard at the face and he falls through the ropes. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, as I mentioned, that is really rough for poor Jerry Saggs. The Steiner brothers jump off the rope for the double clothesline to the nasty boys.
01:00:37
Speaker
And knobs turns around in time. So he takes like, you know, I take the clothesline Sags is a little behind on that. So he just takes a flying clothesline to the back of the head and his neck, which has already been hit by a chair and among other things. Yeah. So he takes it the worst way. It's impressive that he was able to do anything else after taking those shots. Yes. Yes.
01:00:59
Speaker
I mean, as noted weird, but B cell, I want to pay for you. I know that I'm not a big nasty voice fan. It's an accurate statement for me as well. Yes. I gotcha. But just, yeah, speak for myself. I just never liked their style that much. The fact that they're finished with WWF and later was sticking someone.
01:01:16
Speaker
it's facing the armpit, you know, that kind of stupid stuff. That said, they are legitimately tough for getting through matches. Well, just coming it through a match with a Steiner improves you're pretty tough. Yes, especially this match. So I can not like their style or you know looks or music or much about them at all. But I get to respect them as a former is for getting through stuff like this and working as long as they did.
01:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, I really wish we didn't have so many tag matches in a row, but this was not bad overall. The Stiners and the Nasties really went at it and went for big impact on their moves. And I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Nasties did a great job with some Anderson style teamwork yeah to keep Scott controlled, moving faster than I have ever seen them move. hu Of course, this match is about three years earlier than the earliest nasty boys match we've yet seen. So it makes sense that they're moving better and more fluidly. Yeah.
01:02:09
Speaker
The main complaint I'd have here is that their holds are not particularly exciting, though only the bear hugs overstay their welcome. The other holds are short. And to be fair for me, bear hugs overstay their welcome after about a second. Yeah. Additionally, aside from some chair shots, there's nothing really different about the formula of this tag match versus the earlier ones. I don't get why so many of these were left on the show if they were trimming it down anyway. They're basically all variants on the same match outline.
01:02:36
Speaker
This one makes sense to leave on, to be clear. yeah yeah I would propose cutting one of the earlier two. But this one makes sense. It's for the titles. But if you're cutting matches, why keep both the matches there for nothing? Yeah. Still, there's nothing really wrong with this other than that horribly botched Frank designer. And it is one of the better and nastiest matches that you will see that is not a wild weapons brawl. Mm hmm.
01:02:56
Speaker
you know they They tend to do better with the matches that are beating people up with props around the ring. and wasn't it I think it was them versus Jack and Sullivan at one point yes that we were pretty okay with. yeah If this were the first tag match on the show, I would be like, oh, this was good. It's a Nasty Boys match, so I'm genuinely a little bit surprised to be saying that, but I enjoyed it.
01:03:18
Speaker
Unfortunately, I think as we discussed before, cuts like this were done based on the tape cell yeah and trying to make the show fit two hours. So I don't think they really thought, oh, let's let's make this show flow better. No. I think it was just, who who's not as famous? They cut their matches. Probably. Yeah. I think that's really what it comes down to. Can't confirm that obviously, but looking at who they cut and who they don't cut, it seems like that's the case. Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:43
Speaker
Yeah. Credit to credit. Do they have a simple story where they injured Scott's back and they do recover that back for a quite while? Well, so, yeah, I can't argue with the way they do it. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I think this is probably my favorite of the nasty nasty boys matches that I can think of right now. And that's not nothing. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with you on that one for sure. So outside of the house show loop, the few basically the end here, obviously the rest of which times on shows after this, but not on TV.
01:04:12
Speaker
The Nasty Boys would go on to sign with the WWF in December, debuting just two weeks after Starrcade would air. Okay. As you mentioned before, they would return to WSW in 1993. As you have before, it's notable that they're always associated as the Hogan buddies, and to be fair, they are, but they actually do debut for WSW before Hogan shows up. yeah Yeah, well before. In a rare case, it's a coincidence that Hogan's here and the Nasty Boys are here. Yes, that's true. Yeah.
01:04:40
Speaker
As far as the Tigers go, they would of course represent the U.S. in the Pat O'Connor Memorial Tournament, which will have you place as Darkade, being the U.S. tag team champion to make sense of the U.S. team. Fair enough. JR throws to Tony, who is with Scott.
01:05:09
Speaker
congratulations. Thank you very much, Tony. Just like I promised the people of Chicago. And all across this great nation, I told everybody there's gonna be blood and guts, and it's not our blood that's on my uniform. Nasty boys, I told you before, you bit off more than you could chew when you messed with the Steiner brothers.
01:05:36
Speaker
And nasty boys, what you did to my brother afterwards,
01:05:50
Speaker
what's that a consent that Suddenly, Sags, who wandered by dressed as a concession worker with a hilariously faked beard and poofy wig, batter Scott with a drink carrier. Sags and Knobs beat Scott up, including with a title belt, and Knobs grabs a microphone,
01:06:24
Speaker
baby! J.R. calls the attack totally uncalled for, but Paul is highly amused. Paul says that's what happens when you mess with New Yorkers. J.R. says the situation isn't over.
01:06:39
Speaker
ah this was a good intense promo by Scott leading to a pretty nice semi-surprise attack. You can see Scott look directly at Sags as he's approaching, and there is no way that that hilarious costume beard was doing anything to hide who he was. He was an Amish popcorn vendor.
01:06:54
Speaker
yeah
01:06:57
Speaker
Also, why exactly would the concessions guy be on the interview stage when that has happened literally zero times on a WSW show to my recollection? Yeah, exactly. Despite them being WSW shows and therefore not wonders of organization. Yeah. Still, the attack itself was good and escalated the feud quite well. Nob's promo was largely indecipherable though. Yeah. I could swear he says, you think you're scared. We are not scared.
01:07:25
Speaker
Oh, he yeah, he didn't. He said that he did. OK. Oh, yeah, he did. And then I think he says something next about Rick not knowing his name. Yes. I think it was a sound like he'd been beating him up so much. He forgot his name. Oh, is that what he's going for? I thought it was either saying, yeah, Rick doesn't know his own name or saying something about Scott's brother and then realizing that he forgot his name midway through. I think he's trying to say that we beat him so badly. He's forgotten his name, but it was all yelling. So hard to tell. Still works for the energy, though. So fun segment.
01:07:51
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's definitely an interesting way to do it. It's interesting to have a match and then post-match attack, and then a second post-match attack during a promo. This is true. Yes. It's like the horror film thing where you think it's all over, but it's actually not over. The monster sits up one more time. Yeah. The one last hurrah cliche. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a shame that, as you know, he says this is an over at ETL. This isn't over a bunch of times, but it it is actually, at least as far as maybe he was concerned.
01:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunate considering that they did a pretty good match together and then did a very nice setup for a future feud that but like the one time, the times that WSW actually does set something up really well. They don't get to follow through on it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm trying to think if things are going differently, like if the nasty boys had stayed, it's okay. It has the, the Pat O'Connor tournament. If you want to have them wrestle, it's arcade. You have to take the sirens out.
01:08:47
Speaker
I would assume they keep the Steiner's in the tournament with the nasty boys who cost them the tournament. That would work. I think otherwise yeah you get to have them attack them and like take them out of the tournament or something, but yeah. Yeah. And you could do something to keep the feud going in the meantime, like maybe the nasty boys challenged the Steiner's for the right to represent the US in the tournament and the Steiner's beat them there and that serves to further the anger. That could work, yeah. So you don't like put the feud on hold for the month. Right, yeah.
01:09:14
Speaker
So our fourth match is The Horseman. That's the Nature Boy, Ric Flair, and the Enforcer, Arne Anderson, versus Doom. Ron Simmons and Butch Reed, with the Godfather of Professional Wrestling, Theodore R. Long, for Doom's NWA World Tag Team Championship. The referee for this one is Randy Anderson. No relation.
01:09:36
Speaker
So, uh, earlier in the year, the four of them were riding really high. You know, you had world champion Ric Flair and you know, everything like that. But of course now we have world champion sting. So this is sort of caused the forest men to pivot. So they reset themselves. And their goal is they want to win all the titles, get all the power, all the control. Yeah. Ric Flair definitely doesn't care about the world title anymore is not dressing up like a crazy magician person to try and freak sting out in preparation for trying to take the title back. None of that going on whatsoever.
01:10:05
Speaker
So weird thing to say I'm prompted, but yes, that is correct. So weird, the exact thing to say I'm prompted in fact, but no, that's a general storyline is they want to regain their past dominance. You know, you see the pictures where it's world champion, Rick flair, you know, TV champion, our Anderson, Barry Wyndham, and someone like Ollie, for instance, as a tag champion, something like that. So yeah, they have their big man, Sid going for the world title. And so originally this is going to be very Wyndham and our Anderson who generally teamed together more on TV and on pay-per-view than.
01:10:36
Speaker
Arne and Flair would going for it. Then fairly, that's going to do a pivot. And now it's brick Flair in the title match. And that part of the story is pool. And then brick Flair is a tag team wrestler because, you know, he's been world champion and like a single star so long. So now it's sort of another aspect of the match in that way as well. Yeah. He's a great singles competitor, but can he adapt to a tag formula type of thing? Yeah. So you want to guess when the last time brick Flair held the tag championship? Ooh.
01:11:04
Speaker
It's probably been a while. Um, is it pre 1983? Yes. Okay. Let's say 1977. Oh, you were so close. 1979. Oh, I almost did that first that I was like, I need to do a little more distance. Okay. But yeah, he has, I believe three tag runs before he comes a single star. Oh, cool. Flair and Arne come out first with pyro. We're getting a lot of that on this show.
01:11:34
Speaker
Flair has a nice blue and silver robe. Arne has his wrestling gear. Yes. Just once. I would love to see how ridiculous it would look to have Arne come out in the robe, too. Yeah, they really should like that in that brief here where they're refuting in the 94, 95, I think it was. Yes. Had him do it mockingly. Very least he should have done it during the house show loop. Switched outfit for a show. That'd been great. I'm sure they would have loved to do that, too. So. Yeah, exactly.
01:12:01
Speaker
Doom are thankfully unmasked now, which will make it easier for me and for JR. Mm-hmm. They get Fire Pyro. It seems like we only have two varieties of Pyro, but I'm not used to seeing this much of it during this era anyway. The smooth jazz is still an interesting fit for big, tough, scary heels. Yeah, yeah. Paul jokes that all the chaos that has been happening on the show is because they named it Halloween Havoc instead of Halloween Greetings. What about Halloween Hello, so we still have alliteration? Halloween Hooray!
01:12:30
Speaker
There you go. Paul asks for a prediction, and JR says he's not sure is too close to call. Arne and Simmons start, and Simmons evades Arne and overpowers him. Paul claims that FSU's Bobby Bowden is a fan of him, but JR notes that Bowden has never heard of Paul. Paul challenges JR to a fight, and JR deadpans, yeah, right. ah Honestly, my money would be on JR in that fight, I think. Yeah, I'd say so.
01:13:00
Speaker
Flair and Reed both sneak in knee strikes from outside. Both members of Doom dominate with power, earning two with a Simmons power slam. Flair gives us a Flair flop on a tag attempt, and nearly takes out a cameraman on a Flair flip over the turnbuckle, presumably the cameraman had never seen a Rick Flair match before.
01:13:18
Speaker
I believe that is our buddy, Jackie Crockett as well. I believe so. Yes. Of the notable fat guy step. Yeah. He doesn't have it on this show, which is part of his problem. He has to stand on the apron and be right in Flair's way. Yeah. I feel for that guy because he's he you're holding this big camera setup. Those things gotta be 50, 60 pounds at that point in 1990. Yes. And so he's on a mall sort of standing area. And I think he's holding the ropes with one hand generally so it could lean back. Yes. So he's one handing this big old rig. Yeah.
01:13:47
Speaker
Fair play. Yeah. And I imagine that once you realize that Ric Flair is running at you and going to do the flip over the ropes, it's kind of hard to dodge in with that thing. Exactly. Yeah. Like, well, I'm here. Yeah, pretty much.
01:14:02
Speaker
Arne finally catches Simmons telegraphing a back body drop and elbows him, and Flair lures Reed in to distract the ref so that Arne can boss and crab Simmons for a Flair knee drop. Cool double team. Arne and Flair trade off to wear Simmons down, earning two off of Arne's beautiful spine buster, but Simmons catapults Arne skyward on the kick out. Arne's expression there is priceless.
01:14:25
Speaker
Flare and Arne work to damage Simmons' leg, awesomely turning Flare's normal build to the figure 4 into a tag team strategy, and continually lure Reed in to accidentally distract the ref, allowing Flare to lock on the figure 4 and repeatedly get leverage from Arne. Simmons eventually turns the hold over, but Arne just stomps him and grabs a leg hold of his own, getting leverage from Flare.
01:14:45
Speaker
Arne looks smug. I love this team. Arne dodges the Simmons dropkick for repeated two counts and headbutts him for another, but Simmons gets his knees up on a drop. Tag to Flair, who tries to shoulder block Simmons but just bounces off. Flair looks shocked. But he's with Arne so he knows to immediately lock his legs around Simmons to stop a tag. Simmons fights back and even sunset flips Arne for zero as Arne tags Flair mid-fall.
01:15:14
Speaker
Simmons basically slugs Flair in the jaw on a leaping clothesline. His aim is a little off on that. And later catches Arne with a double-handed facebuster. Arne tags Flair, but Simmons tags Reed. Reed runs wild with punches and a dropkick, and gets two with a jumping shoulder block to Flair. Everybody in, and Flair ends up outside with Reed, as Arne tries to pile-drive Simmons, but Reed stuns Flair, and hits a diving shoulder block to Arne for two.
01:15:42
Speaker
Arne floats over a Reed Slam and DDT's him for one as Simmons saves, pinning Arne for two and nine tenths, despite neither guy being legal. Yeah. Sadly, they all end up brawling outside and the ref counts to 10. It's a double count out. Yeah. Ring announcer Capeta says both teams return to fail before quickly correcting that highly, highly depressing statement to fail to return to the ring.
01:16:11
Speaker
The crowd is not happy with that ending. It seems a bit deflated. Yeah, for sure. We get replays of some of the near falls, most notably the very nice DDT by Arne. Though Paul's the best DDT I've ever seen is a tad much. Jake Roberts does exist. That's true, yes. Thoughts on this one? I thought this is a very enjoyable back and forth match. Would this match really did well with Showcase Doom? Yes. Arne and Flair really go either way to make them look good.
01:16:39
Speaker
Actually, they could be in control for long periods of time, but every time Doom either tries to get out and fails, or actually does seem to get out, then they look really good. Like they can no sell chops. They can, you know, do the shoulder block spots, press, land them around, which are really good as well.
01:16:56
Speaker
Possibly the coolest part in the match is that bit where flair shoulder block Simmons who is doing an excellent job of selling his injured leg And it does stumble from the shoulder block, but flair still goes down rather than him. Mm-hmm It just like that's such a great way of being like yeah, this guy is really tough and really big exactly Yeah, you can injure him but even with an injured leg. He's able to keep his feet and you go down and Yeah. say I think Simmons come out really the best in this match, which is not not going to read really looks really good as well. He gets his moments to shine as well, but you definitely see like backstage people watching this match, watching Ron Simmons through this run going, yeah, this guy's got something we can use. We can push him single. And I think when this is done, it'll work. Well, I was thinking the same thing. This feels like a let's test if Ron Simmons can eventually turn face and go singles. Yeah. And the answer is yes. Absolutely. Yes.
01:17:49
Speaker
I thought the teams mesh really well as well. I get to see a match with this where it's the pure power against the techno expertise thing sometimes. It can either make the techno guy look weak because they're constantly getting countered by pure strength and tossed around, or make the pure power guy look really bad because they're constantly wrestling and just, you know, running at him and punching them, for instance. I thought they did the balance really well where you could see the techno expertise that Flair and them have, but also do know enough to keep themselves in play. So they're truly, truly being out-wrestled for long periods of time. They did a good plot for this, that they have the horsemen at the early going make the mistake that JR especially does a great job of highlighting, I believe.
01:18:33
Speaker
Jared and Paul both do a good job with it of trying to match Doom power for power. Yes. And so they start off with, you know, not trying to use their technical side. They want to like try and beat Doom at their own game and they get beat up for it. Exactly. and So then they move to the technical side. But by that point, we've established, hey, Doom are really good and powerful. So it doesn't feel bad when they start getting maneuvered with the horseman's increased technical ability. Mm hmm.
01:19:00
Speaker
And even then, it for me, it's never truly unbalanced as well. No, no, no. Yeah. The way they fight out of moves is not just shoving or punching. I like that. No, yeah, absolutely. Ron does not feel like he's only surviving due to his strength. He feels like a good wrestler who's not as good as Arne or Flair at the technical side, but still good, but is just massively powerful as well. So he mixes that together quite well. Absolutely.
01:19:25
Speaker
and redo. Like you said, like, you I don't want to undersell Reed's performance either. It's just that Simmons is the face in peril during that segment. So you see more of him. Absolutely. So now the other side of the match, the finish. Yeah.
01:19:38
Speaker
ah So I have a theory on this, and obviously I can't possibly confirm this. So my theory is that they decided from the get-go, we're gonna do a multi-match series between Doom and the Horsemen of some variety, at least two shows. And of course they do, we they wrestle against Starrcade. Which was good, as I recall. It was, yeah. But I think they ran into a problem where they go, okay, so we we don't want a title change. We're not gonna hotshot the titles back and forth between the teams. We want a nice long reign for Doom.
01:20:08
Speaker
But then how do we have Flair Anderson come in and not with the titles? You could really make something out of, you know, Flair being pinned by someone like Simmons, for instance, but they're not ready to do that yet. Yeah. Let's say the Doom, you know, actually beats the Horseman this show. Ron Simmons, you know, gets a pin on Rick Flair, and then the next month they lose the titles at Sarcade, and then you just split Simmons off. You set him up, you say, hey, I can beat Flair, blah, blah, blah.
01:20:33
Speaker
But they obviously prolong it a little bit longer, a few more months, at least after that. So they're like, how are we going to get out of this situation we dug ourselves into? Yes. And unfortunately, the reason they came up with was double count out. And it's not that good.
01:20:48
Speaker
I will say when I first watched it with you together, it really did feel like they were supporting that. Okay, now time to leave the ring and to start fighting. Yes. I was looking for that when I re-watched it for my show notes. Okay, here's the spot where they do it. I'm like, and they you kind of do it, but it's not super obvious. It's not like they just stop fighting the ring and decide to fight inside the ring. They get to a point I don't like, at least in a reasonable manner. So it's a measure of compliment.
01:21:13
Speaker
It does a little bit still retain that feeling of, well, it's time for the match to end, but they don't like just stop fighting and leave the ring. They all get out of the ring in a reasonable fashion. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you have, I think it's Reed and Anderson are finding the outside. I think so. Yeah. And then Flair goes, Oh, I got to help Anderson. I'm going to help him. And then Simmons follows them. So it's it's a good way to get to where I don't want you to get to, but yeah, and fair is fair. And to be fair as well. Doom are at this point also heels. Yes. So both teams are heels.
01:21:43
Speaker
If this was a face team, they'd be like wanting to be the noble faces and win legitimately with pinfalls. But because it's doom, you can say, oh, they have no compunction about just going and fighting them outside. They're fine with getting a double count out because they're heels. They don't care as much about that. It makes sense to it a certain extent that they just like all go outside and just fight. And even if Arden Flair realized, oh, crap, we need to get back to the ring.
01:22:09
Speaker
which I would have appreciated a little bit more portrayal from them on. Mm hmm. Yeah. Doom would probably just hold them outside and be like, nope, this is how it's ending. Yeah, that'd be fine. As fine as I would like a double counted, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. For my part, fourth tag match on the show. But it's Arne Anderson, Ric Flair and Doom, so it held my attention just fine. It was really cool to see Flair and Arne tagging together. It is rarer than you would think with them being in the same faction so often. Yeah.
01:22:37
Speaker
They have excellent tag work, which is no surprise with Arne in there and some nice double teams and teamwork overall, particularly the late match segment with the two working together to set up for the figure four. The match plot is good overall, with the horsemen starting out trying and failing to match Doom's power and brawling skill, then succeeding as they turn to their more technical style, using swift tags, precise strikes, and working the leg. And, of course, cheating a lot to keep control. Yeah. If I have a complaint on the match overall, it's that Reed comes off looking like a moron, with how many times he jumps in and gets Simmons in more trouble. Yeah, it's fair. It's a bit much, even though it's really well explained most of the time by Flair, or aren't getting him to react.
01:23:17
Speaker
This match builds up both teams really well, showing the sheer power of Simmons and Reed, and the tactical brilliance of Flair and Arne. As with UL, the only real real flaw is the ending. The double ganna was not surprising, but it's still disappointing, and as is often the case, it doesn't emerge totally naturally. They just kind of end up fighting outside, in part because it's time for the match to end.
01:23:39
Speaker
Still, other than that, it was a really fun match with a better opening segment than most of the rest tonight, great tag work, a clear storyline, and some excellent character moments. Lots of fun. Agreed.
01:23:51
Speaker
as will be brought up later in the promo cover, doom does not want to fight the horsemen again. However, so their hands kind of forced, you know, the heat feuding. So they do is they have a singles match between Rick flair and butch read at clash 13. And the idea is that if flair can win, then they'll get a title shot at starcade. And if read can win, then they don't obviously flare ends up winning. So the horsemen get their title shot at starcade, which we've covered already. Yeah, I recall that match being quite nice.
01:24:19
Speaker
Yeah.
Stan Hansen's Promo and Match with Lex Luger
01:24:20
Speaker
Oh, and notably the Starrcade match is set up as a direct rematch from this show. So it's Anderson and Flair, but then at the last minute they switch from Flair to Wyndham back in. What could possibly be occupying Flair's time on Starrcade? I don't know. We have to rewatch the show and find out I guess. Was he like getting fitted for an ill-fitted mask backstage and working out how to work a UFO or something? I mean,
01:24:43
Speaker
I guess that could be what's happening. I'm not sure why, again, why your brain goes right to those with exact things. But yeah, maybe.
01:24:53
Speaker
We cut to footage of Stan Hansen holding a little pumpkin and chewing lots of tobacco. I guess Fantonia the Shavapara didn't want to interview him in person. Fair. I still remember Tony's face as he tried to dodge tobacco spew the one time he did. So I get it, Tony. I get it.
01:25:09
Speaker
Let's look at it in just a few seconds! You're gonna have to deal with me once and for all! And this represents little ol' Lexi!
01:25:21
Speaker
You made me sick. You get ready for the bell and not be ready for the jack-o-lantern and all these other things because in just in a few seconds I'm bringing that bell out there and I'm going to take that title and I'm going to take it all the way back to Texas.
01:25:43
Speaker
Hanson gets briefly thrown off for a moment, as when he says, get ready for the bell, he accidentally knocks some of the dry plants he's standing in front of back into the backdrop, and he gives a look back like, oh crap, did I break the set? Yeah, his eyes break character for a split second, it's great. He does a good recovery to finish strong though. I still can't look at Hanson when he speaks because there's so much tobacco crammed in his mouth and it is gross. Yeah, no, I agree.
01:26:10
Speaker
Weirdly, when he spits at the pumpkin, only a little seems to come out. yeah I was really expecting that to be more blatantly disgusting. True, yeah. It also sounds like a fart. A little bit, yeah. A little splatty sound it makes, yeah. Overall, perfectly fine, disrespectful heel promo though. He made me want to see Luger beat him so he accomplished his purpose.
01:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. For the most part, I think it's good. Not a lot of lot of detail. It's just raw hate to hear my character because you couldn't tell ring ding ding with the bell and the spit. He definitely for me feels like an 80s movie villain. Yes. Like the guy that Swayze fights in Roadhouse, for instance, I bet. Yep, I can see that.
01:26:51
Speaker
Weirdly, with minor modifications, I could also see him doing a role like Ric Flair did on Baywatch, where he's the arrogant, in his case, Texan property developer or something. He's like a Texan oil tycoon or something that's going to buy the beach or something. Yeah, and he's like, I'm taking over your mall because there's oil under them, their fields.
01:27:10
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that for sure as well. Yeah. This is something about his tone sounds right for that. He'd also be good in like action films in Japan, you know, where you wrestle a lot. I can see like, you know, you have where your lead would be. Let's say you're like a shokusui kind of guy. And he's fighting him up to guys and then, you know, door burst open. He comes out. He has this big swagger. He's like, I get you. And you kick him like in the face once he just falls over. You know what I mean? I could picture that 100 percent. I could see him doing that kind of role. Yeah.
01:27:39
Speaker
So our fifth match is Stan, the Lariat Hanson versus the Total Package Lex Luger for Luger's NWA United States Heavyweight Championship. Referee for this one is Mike Atkins, pre-match. Yes. So Stan Hanson started working part-time in WCW due to the tape delay aspect of their show where you tape match and then they would sort of, they sprinkle it over the next few weeks or month or so. So he could also fly back and mark Japan where he was working in all Japan, progressing civically.
01:28:09
Speaker
He quickly built up a reputation in WCW for beating up jobbers and also Tommy Rich. As they know in commentary, he, and his when his first match is in, he beats up the ref and gets suspended, which I think was excused for him to go back to Japan anyways. He has a big ivit reputation in Japan and he's won a bunch of titles there. So that's really all you need to set up. Here's why he can challenge for the US title.
01:28:32
Speaker
Noted, he is also currently at this point, the All Japan Triple Crown Champion. Oh wow. That is a unified belt that represents the NWA International Championship, the PWF World Championship, and the NWA United National Champion. So he's technically NWA United National Champion going for the NWA United States Championship. So if he wins it, he'll be the NWA United States National Champion.
01:28:58
Speaker
Yes. And also international champion. He's also that too. Yes. Yes. That's true. Yeah. You get get a big belt and you get a trophy. Looks really nice. as I find a picture of an online. What's the most confusing way to say that? NWA United States international national champion. Yes. That's good with that. It'd be nice if he had his belt with them, but I kind of get the big Texas bully look would be weird, but this fancy gold belt he's wearing. So I kind of get why it's not wearing it. Yeah, fair enough.
01:29:26
Speaker
As Hanson enters, JR mentions him destroying the set, and I thought for a second that he met the accidental bump during his promo, but it's actually Hanson running around on stage smacking stuff with his bull rope. yeah JR says he doesn't even like to sit close to Hanson. Lex Luger gets a really good reaction from the crowd. does yeah His hair is very mullet-ish today. yeah JR assures us that this match won't be scored on a point system as though most wrestling matches are.
01:29:56
Speaker
Yeah. Even when W. Sibia does judges, they don't tend to have a point system that they're openly judging on. So that was a weird comment. Yeah. The closest is the last year's Starrcade, right? With the Iron Man tournament. Yeah. And that's they're receiving points for how they did in the match. Yeah. Not that the match is being decided based on points assigned by judges. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's referencing obviously collegiate amateur wrestling, but still it is weird in a show with no point scoring to go, well this is oh no point scoring in this match. Yes. Yeah. that Thanks. like um I figured that.
01:30:27
Speaker
Luger a champ from the crowd, so Hanson goes out to yell at people. Atkins takes a while to manage to get Hanson to put the bull rope down. JR demeans West Texas State University, noting that Hanson didn't go to class, but that's nothing new for West Texas State. In keeping with our usual, I assume that West Texas State has recently beaten Oklahoma at a football game. That makes sense, yeah.
01:30:52
Speaker
Hanson sneaks in to kick around the ref and clubs Luger, but Luger fights back and drives him from the ring. Paul asks if JR would like him to get his notebook and name every neck Hanson has ever broken, and JR says, sure, so long as Paul's notebook is 30 or 40 miles away. Sick burns from JR tonight. Yeah. They're going for a Gordon Soli, Bobby Heenan vibe, which i I'm all for. Yeah, yeah.
01:31:16
Speaker
Hanson Eyerake gets a loud Luger sell, and Luger later sells his own kick out of a pin off a Hanson elbow drop. ah His kick out. Yeah, that's right. ah That's new even for him. They brawl around inside and out of the ring. There's a very awkward Hanson elbow drop off the apron where he just kind of gently rests his arm on Luger's shoulders, but the rest looks hard and brutal. Luger of course sells Hanson's strikes and his own with precisely the same noises.
01:31:46
Speaker
If you were just listening to this match, you would never know if Luger was on offense or defense. Yeah, it's true. Two counts off Luger elbow drops, a Hansen screaming elbow drop, knee drop, bulldog, and double leg takedown, and Luger's suplex. Hansen beats Luger up in the corner and intentionally K.O.'s Atkins with an elbow when he tries to break it up. Hansen goes for the Lariat, but Luger catches him with one of his own.
01:32:11
Speaker
While both men are down, dangerous Dan Spivey sneaks to ringside and throws in Hanson's bull rope. Hanson tries to hit Luger with the cowbell, but Luger ducks and back body drops him, then hits a one-handed bulldog a la Sting. Luger signals for the torture rack, but goes for one more charge first, and Hanson nails him with a sudden lariat for the three count and the win.
01:32:35
Speaker
Evidently, Mike Atkins had lost all memory of the last few minutes and forgot that Hanson clearly intentionally decked him. It should have been disqualified. I mean, CT work comes on really fast sometimes. Yeah. The crowd is not happy as they really liked Luger. A couple of guys mimic Hanson's hand signal though. Paul tries to claim that Hanson did it all on his own and JR calls him out on it. So Paul admits that he cheated and got help from Spivey, but says he still has the belt. Doesn't matter. Fair enough.
01:33:04
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? I thought it was a pretty simple but enjoyable clash of styles. Obviously, Hanson is not going to be working, you know, long armholes or figure fours or any of that stuff like a flare match. What he does is hit you really hard and sometimes harder than he meets you, because as you've talked before, he is not quite legally blind at this point, but he is very not good at seeing at this point. Let's put it that way. He is seeing poorly enough, he should probably not be doing striking moves, but but that's what he does. so Yeah, given that his little repertoire is built around you run at me and I throw my arm at you. It's a dangerous combination. Yes. The positive about that style and how he wrestles is that gives us tons of Luger selling. Oh my gosh, yes. Luger selling really elevates this match for me more than if the same match for a play with him against say like a Brian Pillman, which would be good in its own right to be fair.
01:33:56
Speaker
The interference aspect is weird, right? Because he gives him the cowbell and the rope and it doesn't work. But then he went separately from that. Yes. It'd be one thing if it was like, there's a split second delay between you after he does the backdrop that literally goes, okay, I gotta make sure this rope is all the way out of here. and Like he stops and like throws out of the ring and then turns around into a layer or something. He's just fully in control and then just gets countered and loses the match. As clean as you can get with attempted interference earlier.
01:34:23
Speaker
Yeah, it is interesting, JR's comment to Paul about, well, he cheated. Well, technically he tried to cheat. Yeah. I guess, ah okay, so technically he cheated, but the cheating didn't actually matter to the finish in any way whatsoever. He does actually win and clean, yeah. Yeah, just a very confusing interference that doesn't actually, doesn't really pay off.
01:34:41
Speaker
I'll be honest, I really wouldn't want to see the visual of him with Hanson in the torture rack, even if it's broken up somehow. Like if, you know, handsome, that kicks the ref and then you set up the spy interference. We'd like to see that, but I think they're saving that for the rematch, which I can't remember if it happens in the rematch or not. But if it doesn't, that'd be disappointing too. Yeah, I don't recall how that ends. if If you, if they go a whole match series and don't have them put Hanson in the torture rack could be really, really shame.
01:35:07
Speaker
probably wrestling in how the biggest stars, they take a little bit from other people, you know, the rock takes a bit from Rocky Johnson, his dad, and you know, so on and so forth, all these people. I was thinking watching, enhancing him out, him going with that vest. Stone Cold Steve Austin. Stone Cold, yes, yeah. Yep. 100%. Obviously, visually, it's a big difference between the two of them in that, you know, the belly region.
01:35:30
Speaker
Was crazy Texan in a black vest coming out to fight you? Yeah, I was getting that a lot. I would be shocked if that wasn't intentional. Oh, yeah, 100 percent. I would imagine Austin was like, Hmm, what can I do from a new look? Oh, I remember Stan Hansen. He was awesome. Let's do that. Exactly. Yes. This was a strike heavy match, but it was still a lot of fun. Luger really threw himself into this and sold very well and loudly for Hansen and for himself.
01:35:57
Speaker
and the two worked well to give the feeling of a feud with big emotions and intensity. There wasn't much complexity to what was going on, though Paul did a nice job pointing out how much Hanson was wearing down Luger's neck and upper body to set up for the Lariat. Even so, the match is short, and it doesn't wear out its welcome, and they put in a little bit more wrestling-wise slate match to evolve things a bit before the finish.
01:36:19
Speaker
The cheating segment, I agree with you, is is kind of like it doesn't really go anywhere. The actual finish, though, is quite nice. It builds up how sudden and devastating the lariat is as Luger seems fully in control, but suddenly gets caught by it and pinned immediately. Yeah. It's the striking version of like the diamond cutter. Exactly. Yeah. An uncomplicated but fast paced and intense brawl. I wouldn't want every match to be like this, but it worked.
01:36:45
Speaker
Yeah, I would say I go back to, I guess, Wrestle War a couple months after this, when we get that big out of control fight between St. Anson and in Vader. And i was like I said, similar thing, that I don't want every match to be like this, but this match feels interesting because it's so different. As mentioned, Luke would get his rematch at Starrcade for the belt. And just to keep this curse alive, I should mention that St. Anson loses his Turbo Crown Championship in January.
01:37:15
Speaker
JR asks what else could happen tonight, and throws to Ton Tomm of the Apfone, who is with the World Tag Team Champion, Teddy Long. He's standing there holding both belts. Although technically, Simmons and Reed are on his t-shirt, aligned perfectly with the belts, so maybe that's how he's showing that they're the real champs.
01:37:36
Speaker
I don't know, we still got that on your face. Well, let me say something about the smirk on my face. One thing I want everybody to know is homie don't play that and you know what that word is. Now I have proved to the national wrestling alliance, I have proved to Ted Turner, I have proved to Chicago.
01:38:04
Speaker
team for presidentresley a
01:38:20
Speaker
I'm not sure what that word is and I'm not sure Tony knew what Long was getting at either. Yeah. otherwise a perfectly acceptable promo from Teddy, striking a good balance between being vindicated and being arrogant. He kind of goes with the almost face role that Doom played in the match, but without losing the character that he is going to be using going forward with the more heelish attitude. So a good job of bridging the gap there.
01:38:45
Speaker
I do like the, uh, dated nature of this promo by doing a in lemon color reference. Yes. As someone who watches them in color or as a kid, maybe I shouldn't have at that age, but I did. I don't know what word he means either. Cause I watch a bunch of those sketches. Yeah. I, I don't understand what he's going for there at all.
01:39:04
Speaker
Like I said, it's a good balance of vindicated and overconfident cocky. Absolutely. I always say it'd be nice to hear from actual doom. Yeah, yeah. Like bragging about it, but I tell you long is a good promo so I can complain.
01:39:15
Speaker
I don't mind them having Teddy Long do the bulk of the promo. I just I know on other shows that we've seen Reed and Simmons do promos that they're both quite good as well. It would have been nice to have like Teddy Long start, get a little bit from Reed and Simmons and then Teddy Long finish. Yeah. That they've done sometimes and get those guys out there, especially because I love Ron Simmons voice. That's true. Yes. That just mega bass voice he's got. Mm hmm.
01:39:41
Speaker
We cut back to JR and Paul, who have been joined by Missy Hyatt. Paul is yelling into his gigantic old cellular phone. JR builds up the match between Vicious and Sting, and says, all that Misty and Paul have in common is that they both predicted that Sid Vicious will win. Missy takes care to note that she predicted it first, as Paul gestures that it was him. Missy says, after the black scorpion messed with Sting's head, it's gonna be easy.
01:40:08
Speaker
So our final match is Big Sid Vicious versus Sting for Sting's NWA World Heavyweight Championship.
Sting vs. Sid Vicious
01:40:15
Speaker
Referee for this one is Nick Patrick. I had noted before, after returning from entry, teaming with Robocop briefly and fully recovering, Sting would win the world title off of Ric Flair and those go on a run he's on now.
01:40:29
Speaker
un Understandably taking the hat off. Flair makes your target for the four horsemen. Also being sting makes you a target for the four horsemen. That's true. I mean, even now in his retired life, he probably looks on the corner. He walks places like is aren't coming. Aren't might jump me if I turn this corner too fast. It's just hardwired in his brain now.
01:40:49
Speaker
I had noted the group was going for full dominance. So with the others going after the tag title, Sid is thrown in there as their big and enforcer. I think he's got the best shot at being Sting. He's big and scary and likes to yell. so And he's vicious too. Oh, is he? I got that. Yeah. So it's a, it's a pretty straightforward story. Group sends their hardest hitter out to take the title off the guy that took it from them. I can't imagine why you need to overcomplicate this, this at all.
01:41:16
Speaker
This will probably be a very straightforward batch that has nothing complicated going on. Exactly. By the way, ah is it true that Barry Wyndham was getting a haircut for some reason ah earlier in the day? I've heard that was that was a thing. I do i think using check for a lice, you know sometimes you just do that. Oh, okay. Part of it, yeah. WSW kind of operates like an elementary school sometimes. so Exactly, yeah. Projection values. That's true.
01:41:41
Speaker
Sid is announced as from anywhere he darn well pleases, which is one of the best intros ever. Yeah, if I ever became a wrestler, that's where I'd be from as well. Yeah, yeah, I think that just says it all there. Mm hmm. Some kind of baton or pencil or something gets thrown in and bounces off his shoulder as he walks down the ramp and he ignores it. Good man. Can't blame them. Yeah. ah Sting is out next and his pyro is almost almost synced to the rhythm of his music, but not quite.
01:42:11
Speaker
To be fair, i' I don't think they were trying to. I think it's just a coincidence, but it's a very funny coincidence. Absolutely, yeah. JR mistakenly calls Sid Sting's partner before quickly correcting two opponents. An opening stardown effectively demonstrates Sid's side's advantage. Sid turns away to pose, so Sting turns away to give a stinger call, so Sid quickly whips around and batters him. Dear sweet stupid Sting.
01:42:39
Speaker
Sid easily catches a Sting crossbody and backbreakers him, but Sting no cells and rapidly lands strikes, then goes for the figure four, but Sid escapes. Back in, Sid breaks the eyes, but Sting ducks a clothesline and Sid spills out, where he tries to run Sting to the ring post, but Sting sends him into it instead. Paul nicely points out that Sid gets right back in anyway, having learned from the Horseman's earlier match that you can't win the title outside the ring.
01:43:06
Speaker
Sting works the arm, and we get an adorable shot of a preschooler in Sting face paint shyly waving at the camera. Oh yeah, over there. He was super cute. J.R. says Sting's motivation is the kids who believe in him. Sting counters a Sid headlock takeover with a head scissors, but Sid kips up and clotheslines him flat. J.R. oddly calls Sid's powerbomb a variation on the body slam.
01:43:31
Speaker
which, sure, in that your body does slam to the mat, but otherwise the move is almost entirely different. Yeah, it's a very weird way to say that. Pin attempts off a Sting sunset flip that Sid countered with a punch but then stood there until Sting rolled him up anyway. Sid clothesline. Sid loose power slam. Sid turning his back like an idiot after knocking Sting outside so Sting can crossbody him. And Sid running apron clothesline. Sid also works a nerve hold for quite a while.
01:44:00
Speaker
As they dodge each other's elbow drops, Paul notes that the kids are also Sid's motivation as he feeds off their tears. They end up on the ramp and Sid close lines and slams Sting, but goes back to the ring. So Sting charges down the ramp and clears fully half the ring on a dive to tackle him to the mat. ah Sting drop kicks it out through the ropes and dives out onto him, actually kicking at Patrick when he gets in the way briefly. Sting and Sid brawl, and suddenly Rick Flair and Arne Anderson appear and argue with Patrick. Sting pursues Sid backstage.
01:44:35
Speaker
16 seconds later, Sid returns pursued by Sting, who is suddenly a few inches taller and a little bit bulkier. As Back turned the camera, he first arrives as well. Yeah, yeah. They get in the ring and Sting ducks a clothesline and tries a slam, but Sid falls on top for the three count and the win. Sting immediately rolls out as Sid gets fireworks and balloons and everything, but suddenly the real Sting resurfaces with rope tied around one wrist.
01:45:04
Speaker
Sid tries to hit him with the big gulp belt, but Sting ducks, punches him, hits him with the belt, and hits the stinger splash for the three count and the actual win. I guess Nick Patrick figured, eh, what the hell, you get a DQ credit for being kidnapped and imitated? Exactly, yeah. Sting poses outside with his belt and even more balloons fall. Sid looks dejected. Thoughts on this one?
01:45:26
Speaker
This, like a lot of matches in the show, was pretty simple, but it's still quite enjoyable. It's not a complex formula, obviously, with the Cid versus Sting match. You really just nail the fact that Cid is so big and powerful. Sting is constantly fighting. He never gets full Reki Morden, even in like, even in tag matches. His energy level is always so high that it's a different feel in that way.
01:45:48
Speaker
There's definitely a point where Sid is obviously not at Stig's level, which is a common thing throughout his career. That said, I thought he did a really good job with sir timing on a bunch of spots, like just waiting a couple of seconds to do certain moves. Like when he waits a moment, then does the running clothesline on the apron, for instance, even his timing on like catching and stuff like that. Yes, there's a two person match and they're both working together, but I think it's important to give Sid credit for what he really does well. Even if, again, he's not going to work a completely see like a lucha match where they drop down duck, you know, at that, that, and they end up a pose off. You're not going to get that with, with Sid, but he does his part really well. I thought this match was built around him quite well. Now, if this was the whole match and it was just that happening, that'd be great. The problem is, yeah, they confused in the overbook the entire finish.
01:46:41
Speaker
what if What I believe happened is, Sid goes to the outside, Sting pursues him, tell you the horse runner there. The horse runner there to keep the ref from counting. Yes. Is the idea. Yeah. Because he's talking with them so he won't do a count out to the back. Sid runs to the back and Sting runs out. Apparently, I said in seconds, Barry Windham in full Sting makeup and get up.
01:47:03
Speaker
grabs Ding and like ties into a bar, I guess, and then send him run out, do the finish to try and steal the title. But Sting also quite easily just rips off the, I guess off the bar he was tied to, comes back and wins the match. It's the same because these guys can have good matches. I know you didn't like the match they have about nine years later. and Yes. and walk In fairness, it is nine years later. yes Yeah, yeah.
01:47:31
Speaker
But they can have a good match together. I think they're a good pairing. So it's a shame that they just so over complicated this thing. And much like the black scorpion stuff with the crowd. We weren't sure what's going on. They weren't sure how to feel. Yeah. They don't give them like a replay or anything because it's both so complicated, but also so rushed. It's like quick run back, do the thing, quick back up out here again, do the fake finish. They did the real finish. Oh, we're all set to talk. What happens ding?
01:47:58
Speaker
What I will tell you is I think the biggest indicator of what a bad idea this is, is there's indication on the show of what an amazing reaction they could have gotten if Sid did pin sting. Yes. There are fans in the crowd that because it is relatively quick and Wyndham actually does a good job of looking like Sting pretty well, honestly, if you aren't super duper familiar with Sting and aren't seeing it from his clothes, i.e. like the crowd. Yeah. So when they get that pinfall,
01:48:26
Speaker
You can spot fans in the crowd that are staring open mouth like they just watched Brock Lesnar break takers streak at WrestleMania. Sure, yeah. I mean, there are some people that are dead silent just staring in amazement that this has happened. Yeah, sure. Not like a bad reaction. Like, I can't believe they've done this. but Like, ah oh, wow, I'm very invested in what happens next. Yeah. And then it turns out that this was just a weird fraud and immediately gets undone. So they wasted a massive crowd reaction. Mm hmm.
01:48:56
Speaker
Well, in the way that the thing plays out as well, they only, in the recap of the end, or they get the shot where you see the two stings cross path. Yes, yeah. They really should have had Wyndham as fake sting, you know, roll outside after he can pin, but not actually run to the back. Each of they stay down, selling like at ringside area, even in the hard camera side, for instance. So when Sting runs back in, they can grab him and throw him in and they can, the crowd can see both of them together and then you can, you know, chuck Wyndham out and then do the whole thing with Sid.
01:49:26
Speaker
You either do that and get a bigger reaction of like Sting actually getting to beat Windham up for it or something like that and make the entire thing bigger. Or you actually do just Sting is unconscious backstage. He does not come back out on the show and you resolve this tomorrow on TV. Yeah. I just think if they had them even just in the same shot in the middle of the ring, it would have made a lot more clear. Yeah. If you're going to stick to this silly idea of Windham as a fake Sting and everything, you got to do it better. Simply put.
01:49:56
Speaker
You know, I don't tend to like Sid matches. Yes. As you mentioned, I was pretty open about this pairing being one of the bad parts of Road Wild 1999, for instance, less bad than the rest of the latter half of that show, but still bad. Yes. So trust me when I say this match was great. Yeah.
01:50:13
Speaker
Stink made Sid look like a million bucks here, and Sid was up to the task of looking like a million bucks. He did his part very well, with hard strikes and big slams and just the right mix of intimidation and arrogance. The nerve hold is a bit long, but otherwise this is one of Sid's very best performances.
01:50:30
Speaker
He seems to be aware that he is in a big, important match and it really pours it on. And the impact he gets on some of those clothes lines in particular is great. Yeah. Sting, of course, is a dynamic performer with a great mix of speed and power as usual, but he pulls out all the stops to not only make Sid look great, but give the audience some really exciting stunts. That ramp sprint dive is amazing.
01:50:52
Speaker
The match has a great rhythm between Sid landing really hard hits to Sting, and Sting regaining enough energy for spurts of offense. Never fully out of it, but always on the defensive. It does a ton to build Sid up.
01:51:05
Speaker
Which is why it's so incredibly disappointing that WSW chose to end it with such a ridiculous, convoluted finish that overshadows the match. Yeah. With Barry Windham dressed up as Sting, taking a false pinfall, only for a Sting to come back, beats it up, and win the match in a matter of seconds. I get that a belt shot is involved, but come on, it not only makes the audience forget all about the match, as they're too busy screaming, what? What? At the television. It also makes it look like a loser who isn't hard to beat after all.
01:51:33
Speaker
It's a massive disservice to Sid after the match did such a great job making him look big and powerful and threatening. Now, not only does he need a cheesy trick to win, he loses the moment the trick is revealed. I know that disqualifications make for really crappy made event endings, but it would have been much better for Sid if Patrick had just reversed his decision and disqualified Sid for horseman interference after the trick was revealed. Or, you know, if WSW didn't pull such a silly trick to begin with. Yeah.
01:52:02
Speaker
Great scouting by the Horsemen, by the way. Figuring out what Sting, who has approximately a million different outfits and paint color schemes, was going to wear. Getting a set of the pink Sting gear in Barry Windham's size, and carefully mimicking Sting's face paint, which by the way had mostly worn off by the time this had happened. Does Sting have like a daily planner where he records what he's going to wear in advance, and the face paint he's going to use for the next few weeks at a time? Along with an instructional document on how to properly apply it?
01:52:30
Speaker
Did the swordsman steal those? Or did they just make a Wyndham sized outfit of every single thing that Sting ever wore and just hope that he didn't debut a new outfit tonight? Or did they raid Sting's closet for duplicates and just kind of hope it would stretch a little? I need to know. I need to know. Also, as as as we hinted out before, the timing of this.
01:52:55
Speaker
Sting and Sid go backstage at one hour, 51 minutes and 11 seconds into the show as it airs. Windham as Sting and Sid reappear at one hour, 51 minutes and 27 seconds. So that means that somehow Windham and Sid got Sting, a world champion fighter, tied to something backstage and got all the way back out to the ring in 16 seconds.
01:53:16
Speaker
And obviously they need time for the transport there. So we're probably talking them dealing with Sting backstage in 10 to 12 seconds probably. And then assuming they sprint back to ringside, yeah even assuming that they might've had only backstage to help too. That seems extreme if you're not knocking him out, which given Sting reappears totally conscious at one hour, 52 minutes and 10 seconds. So 43 seconds later doesn't seem to be the case.
01:53:42
Speaker
The rope actually makes things feel less likely to me. If he didn't have the rope on, I could see the claim being that Oli just held onto him backstage and staying decked in and came back out. But the rope complicates everything that had to happen. WSW trying to explain things made things harder to explain. I was thinking again you you could done it with handcuffs.
01:54:03
Speaker
having Stink break handcuffs is a different thing I know, but that could explain the quick thing. Like, you know, in this real fast amount of time, Sid runs backstage, Stink follows him, suddenly a bear wind up pops up around the corner, like, or open the door. And he's like, I was thinking, he's like, wait, what's going on? And then Sid handcuffs him to like the pole back there, and then they run back out.
01:54:22
Speaker
Yeah, and then yeah, you could have stink presumably just he's a superhero. So you just have him have broken the handcuffs as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a little easier to justify happening quickly than rope. rope feels like it's more complicated. Yeah, there are those though plastic zip tie things that work as well. Yeah, yeah like zip tie into like a beam or something. Yeah.
01:54:42
Speaker
yeah the other The other explanation which does make sense just because it's Sting is that Sting saw Barry Windham dressed as himself and kind of had a control-alt-delete moment where he just was like, oh, Sting.exe has shut down. yeah yeah They took advantage and roped him up in that time. Sure, sure. Because he's like, wait, but it's me betraying me. I don't understand. I get betrayed a lot, but I i surely have never betrayed myself. I truly am my own worst enemy.
01:55:10
Speaker
Anyways, it was a really good and fun Sting vs. Big Man match with one heck of a crappy ending. Yeah, that's the telling thing about it, right? We can talk about how there's a there a good Sid Sting match, but then it's so easy to get sidetracked ridiculous of how they do this finish. Exactly. Every time you talk about it, it takes away from the actual work they did in the match. Yeah. when When you bring up this match to someone else, you're not going to talk about Sid's good performance or the way Sting built up Sid really well. More likely, you're going to be like, yeah, that's the match where Barry Windham dresses up as Sting and everyone's supposed to believe it's Sting.
01:55:44
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. That's what that's what this match is known for. Mm hmm. It's not known for being a genuinely good contest between Sting and Sid. Yes. And it should be. And it's a massive shame. Absolutely. Yes. Sting would be challenged for his world title at Starrcade by the mysterious Black Scorpion. See your episode on that for the disappointing reality of how it plays out.
01:56:07
Speaker
As for Sid, so he wouldn't actually leave the forest and they wouldn't like turn faces and leave them, but basically he wouldn't hang around them for a little while. He would meet up with Dan Spivey and they would rustle cold matches on TV, building up a Starrcade match. They have at that show. Oh, that match. Yeah. It's the, yeah actually everything goes wrong. Match literally every spot. It's like one minute long and they bought every move. Yes. And I like Spivey.
01:56:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, me too. Yeah, and that match ended up being the last time that the skyscrapers team up as as well, which I can see why after seeing that match, I'm sure people backstage were like, oh, God, and this right now. Yeah, it does. It does have the great promo afterwards, though, where they threaten Paul Heyman and he stammers through his his part of the promo. Oh, yeah, that was good.
01:56:59
Speaker
JR notes that obviously it wasn't Sting in the ring and calls Sting over with 30 seconds left in the show. that obviously was not in a ring we've only got thirty seconds here you've overcome every obstacle what do you think about this situation black scorpion
01:57:22
Speaker
It's not one thing, it's another, Rossi. I can't believe this. I never thought defending the world title would mean all of this. That doesn't mean that I'm turning away from it. I'll always be here to defend it no matter what happens, Rossi. There you're here for the champion of the world. What kind of pneumonia? That was, I don't know who that was that came in. job freak running
01:57:50
Speaker
Poor Sting. He gets saddled with having to sum up angles involving the Black Scorpion and a silly sting duplicate while he's just trying to go backstage and have a rest. Yeah, right? He does better than I would have done in part because he doesn't actively start swearing into the microphone after the ridiculous crap dub used to be put him through. Yeah. But there's only so much you can do with this. Just expressing disbelief and walking off is probably the best move. Mm hmm.
01:58:14
Speaker
I do also like, you know, so he's cutting this promo while the pyro and the the fireworks are going off. Yes. It sounds like if you're talking to someone in the kitchen while their world's loudest microwave is making popcorn, it's popping, popping, popping, popping in the background. That is true. That is true. Yeah. I liked, uh, Rossi as well. Yeah. What, what is that? ah Just stings cute nickname for Jim Ross. The good buddies, apparently.
01:58:41
Speaker
Yeah, your name is. OK, so Jim Ross, like your Jimmy. Now that everyone does Jimmy. Oh, Rossi. Yeah. I didn't want ah him to be confused with Jim Cornette or Jimmy Jim Garvin. So. Oh, OK. Yeah. Ranger Ross, though, he might be compared to so. Oh, yeah. That's a tough one.
01:58:59
Speaker
I do have to say they make a habit of going to Sting for promos when the show is ending, don't they? They do. They did that to him on Starrcade 89 as well. Oh, yeah. I think we actually like lose the Sting promo on that show because they it actually cuts to the credits before they get to him. Yeah. Because the Road Warriors are doing their promo and then like Flair does a promo, I think building up Sting and then Sting comes on and gets to say like one line and then we don't hear the rest.
01:59:27
Speaker
So this is better than that. Yeah. Yeah. I will say historically, that seems to be a tradition with Sting because when he had his last match in 2023 at AEW, same thing happens. Are you kidding me? No, I'm not kidding. Oh my gosh. He has this big retirement match and as he's talking, someone tells him I'm running a little on time and he keeps going and it cuts off.
01:59:47
Speaker
it's And now in that case, they played the rest of it on like the next show they had. But yeah, it's just funny. He does entire matches cut off by the runtime. Wow. It's so great. Time your show is better, people.
02:00:03
Speaker
As Sting walks off, Paul protests that the celebration had already begun and the match was over.
Show Conclusion and Thematic Credits
02:00:09
Speaker
JR signs off and we get some nice credits with a spooky house and thunder and lightning effects. And Halloween Havoc 1990 is done. So Al, your overall thoughts on Halloween Havoc 1990? I think it's a good show as a whole.
02:00:23
Speaker
The problem we run into is that the only version available anywhere. And I, I looked around and see if there's like a live version of a show or anything. I couldn't find anything. I tried to find the matches that were cut separately. Cause I really wanted to watch, you know, Kevin Nash's master and blaster, you know, all that stuff. So the only version of show you can watch anywhere, unless you somehow work for the WSB or WF finds the like master tape somewhere, which please, if you find it, put it online. We want to see this.
02:00:50
Speaker
The only version you can see is this chopped down one with almost all the singles matches cut out. And all we're left with is lots of tag matches that feel very similar. They all have their high points. You have good people involved across the board with those matches, but without the singles matches to break them up, it really makes the show clump together a bit. A lot of the matches are okay. I used the word enjoyable a lot, but I didn't use the word great a lot because there was a difference there.
02:01:17
Speaker
I think the show never quite reaches the heights it should in a lot of matches. It almost gets there and they do something like book a double count out or book whatever the hell they did here with the main event match. They're constantly shooting themselves as a foot in some way, shape, or form in these matches.
02:01:36
Speaker
That said, the show had a fun spooky feel. It has the ridiculous black scorpion segment, which is one of my favorite parts of the whole thing. And there are good matches buried in here, so it's not like a show where, oh, here's a really funny segment, but everything else sucks on it. Everything else is fine to good to almost great in a lot of cases or really close in so many cases.
02:01:57
Speaker
I like that they finally embraced the theme. And as a whole, it's certainly more enjoyable than the last one, just for the total package of it. No pun intended by having to look super on here. Though he was an enjoyable part of the show too. He was, yes, absolutely. Yeah, this was okay.
02:02:17
Speaker
Unfortunately, as you said, we only have the cut down version of the show to watch. And while I don't think the things that were cut were necessarily major, no, their inclusion, aside from giving us a Be Mo Hawk to Kevin Nash would have added some very necessary variety that this shows seriously lacks. The cuts mean that we get four lengthy tag matches in a row. Even with the missing matches, we would have had three tag matches in a row as Nash's match was also a tag. But the first and fourth matches on our show would have been broken off by a few singles matches.
02:02:47
Speaker
Yeah. As it is, the show just feels very repetitive. The matches are largely fine mind endings aside in some cases. Yeah, the action is reasonably solid to actively good. Most matches have a decent storyline to them. And there's some big character work by folks like Morton, the Freebirds, the Horseman and Doom, Sting, Sid, Luger and Hanson. Yeah.
02:03:08
Speaker
It's just that so much of the show is variations on the same thing. It's a little tiresome to watch the early part of the show. Things improve with the Horseman vs. Doom, which is just so full of character and energetic enough to pull things back, even with it being yet another tag match. But man, was I glad to see a couple singles matches pop up for the final two. Yeah.
02:03:27
Speaker
Like you said, none of the matches are bad at all. All of them, I would say, are acceptable to good. But you're you're watching and you're like, I've seen this match basically. Yeah. If I watched any single one of the tag matches just on a single night on its own, I'd be fine with them. These are well done tag matches, but there's four of them in a row and they mostly do the same thing. Yeah.
02:03:52
Speaker
Promo work was fine, mostly short, but generally energetic and emotional. The Horseman promo, I think, is the standout, with some really great work by Arne in particular. Of course, the promos also included some notable interruptions tonight, too. We got a good beatdown by the Nasty Boys after a bit of a silly disguise, and less positively, the utterly ridiculous Black Scorpion nonsense that just served to redistract from the main focus of saying storyline tonight. The fight was Sid.
02:04:18
Speaker
Poor Sid, he gets overshadowed not just by Barry Windham dressed as Sting, but by a low budget Criss Angel act as well. Yeah. I mean, the Black Scorpion is gold in all the worst ways. Yeah. But looking at it in terms of the actual show quality, it's definitely a downgrade. No, 100 percent. Yeah.
02:04:36
Speaker
Commentary was good, though with some missteps. I really like the way that JR mixed it up with Paul. They have an openly antagonistic relationship without any of the mixed aggravation and camaraderie that Tony would later have with Bobby Heenan, which made for a really interesting atmosphere as JR got quite angry with Paul at times and vice versa. Yeah.
02:04:55
Speaker
They did a good job telling the stories of matches regardless, but I do have to say Paul has a bit of a habit of exaggeration that would fit better with year 2000 WSW commentary than with this era. He's always saying things like, oh, I've never seen or that's the best sure yeah kind of thing that just feels like you don't need to go that far. We know this is good. It doesn't always have to be the best and the brightest and the thing that's never happened before.
02:05:20
Speaker
It sometimes makes him come off as just unfamiliar with WSW history or just trying to say something big for surprise value. He's not bad, far from it. He has some really great moments at times, particularly his reaction to some of the show's silliest events that help pull things back. But it's just an uneven performance. On the production front, though, the show was a marked improvement from the prior year.
02:05:44
Speaker
We got actual set design, some fun graphics for the intro and outro, spooky music, and people in Halloween costumes, yeah both fans and staff. Love it. After last year, where it barely seemed like people realized it was Halloween, this was an amazing improvement. Credit to the camera team in a few notable ways as well.
02:06:03
Speaker
Number one, as ridiculous as the Black Scorpion bit and the Windom S. Sting bit were, the camera crew captured both of them pretty well. Most importantly, intentionally not giving a long frontal view of Windom S. Sting to give the game away more than the game was already being given away. Right, yes. They also got a good shot of Sting and Windom S. Sting crossing paths on the aisle as Sting came out, though for whatever reason we only got that on the replay. Yeah. They also did a nice job catching people in the crowd dressed up for Halloween, which added to the show theme.
02:06:33
Speaker
This is still WSW, so there were still some awkward or missed shots, but the good outweighed the bad on this one. Overall, I did enjoy this show, but it was much easier to do that with matches 4, 5, and 6, despite shoddy and overcomplicated endings, than with the very samey 1, 2, and 3. I'm not sure that I would recommend watching it straight through as it gets a bit tiresome, but there's definitely some cool moments on the latter half, and let's face it, the Black Scorpion bit is worth watching for all the wrong reasons. 100%. Hardly bad, but here's hoping that we see improvement with future shows.
02:07:09
Speaker
Match of the night and MVP then, so Al, what is your match of the night? All right, so not a lot of great options in the show, unfortunately, because you mentioned a lot of the field samey. For me, I think it comes down to main event and Sid versus Sting. I could see making a case for Luger versus Hanson, or even the Steiner's versus he is Nasty Boys. But for me, I think in spite of the finish, the overall action and storytelling in the Forest versus Doom match just pulls ahead a little bit. And so for me, that's my medicine.
02:07:42
Speaker
Uh, I'm going to agree with you the four horsemen versus doom. Despite a disappointing ending. It's a really fun match to watch with lots of big character and great tag team work by flair and art. It may be overuses the read accidentally distracts the ref thing a bit, but otherwise it's an enormously strong match. That's easy to watch and enjoy. Just, you know, crappy ending. Yes.
02:08:05
Speaker
Runner up for me is Sid Vricius versus Sting, which is also very strong, but has a bit of a slower middle section that hurts it just a bit and doesn't get quite as much fun character work in there. It's still close enough that if that just had a good ending, it would have taken it. ah Agreed, yes. MVP.
02:08:22
Speaker
So I'm going to go back to the way John used to pick MVP. Okay. Which is and MVP is the most important person to show. Like the person that does the most on the show, right? All right. So that is why I'm picking brick flare. Okay. So throughout the course of the show, if Kayfabe is to believed he is dressed up like the black scorpion and for magic, which is pretty impressive. This guy learned magic. That's, that's impressive, right? He does all that.
02:08:50
Speaker
He then goes to the back and prepares for his tag match. Then after that, he goes to the back, helps Wyndham get made up as Sting, waiting back, presumably doing the final touch ups, like making sure that the, the makeup face paint matches everything. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. If anyone would be very familiar with Sting's face paint, I'm like the four horseman to be brick flare.
02:09:09
Speaker
Exactly. So before, before they come out to ringside for the interference part, it's Arne and them back there with Wyndham and they're just making sure everything looks right. Then it's like, could you come out and distract the referee for that all segment? And they leave also just in time. So yeah, the person who does the most in this show is in fact, Ric Flair, if kayfabe is to be believed.
02:09:28
Speaker
All joking aside, he really puts over Simmons and Reed really well in the match. Yes. So on pure quality could pick him as well, but he's just so important in the storyline of the show as well. Yeah. Flair was definitely in contention for me, even for the stuff he legitimately did on the show. Yeah, of course.
02:09:46
Speaker
definite credit to him and to Arne for working together to turn Flair's normal formula into a tag formula very well. Yeah. That was really nice. I loved that Arne even also had his own leg hold to use after the figure four to continue the work. That was cool. Oh yeah. There's a lot of great performances on this show, but I'm going to go with Ricky Morton. Okay. For his excellent work in basically doing an entire team's worth of work on a tag match by himself. Yes. Never letting it get monotonous. Yeah. I can see that perfectly fine.
02:10:16
Speaker
It is a testament to how good he is at playing his role in a Midnight vs. Rock and Roll match that he can just go with that and give fans something fun to watch, even if his partner is less animate than the ring post. Yes, yes. And that wraps up our review of Halloween Havoc 1990. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. A link will be available in the episode description. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. it You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, YouTube Music, Audible, iHeartRadio, Spotify, TuneIn, or Pandora. And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review, and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance and pay-per-view figures, and Gina Trujillo for our logo. Next up, Halloween Havoc 1991. An evening of terrifying destruction. Oh!
02:11:16
Speaker
That sounds more like a 1940s radio news broadcast about a horrific disaster than a tagline for a wrestling pay-per-view. An evening of terrified destruction. I knew, if I said that, that you would go into your headline voice. Well, that was that was my cue, right? if Pretty much, yes. Yeah. This is Bob Moore for Alec Phrygian, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:11:53
Speaker
Well, what happened? Or was he in a cage, sir? He was somewhere the crowd.