Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 65: AWA Super Sunday
77 Plays1 year ago
We're back! Our latest series, Bash at the Beach, turned out to be an incredible look at basically the entire WCW career of one Hulk Hogan - so we figured, why not continue that theme and take a look at an earlier pivotal point in Hogan's career? No, not his time in the WWF - instead, we're taking a look at his time in the AWA, where somehow the sheer noise of the crowd reaction Hogan was getting did not clue the company in to the fact that they really should probably consider giving him the belt already. Plus - early looks at Bobby Heenan, Jesse Ventura, Ed Leslie, and Mean Gene Okerlund! For all this, plus some familiar faces (and audio and show design elements) from the early Starrcades, let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Okay, and my first greatest fear of the night is now past because I have actually hit start recording and did not forget to do so.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling Series by Series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and skipping out on a surfing competition with Stevie Ray to join me tonight is Alec Pridgen. In fairness, I shouldn't have agreed to that in the first place, so I don't know how to surf. I was gonna ask, have you ever surfed? I watched the episode of Batman, where he battles a Joker in a surf competition, but that's about it. I mean, that's all the training you need though, right?
00:01:05
Speaker
That's your cover, I think, probably. But just in case, I feel safer to do this way.
Hulk Hogan's Rise in AWA
00:01:11
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Al? Going great. How about you? I am doing quite well. I am excited because we are tonight taking one of our occasional forays away from WCW to have another look at the AWA. And those are always fun. Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:01:28
Speaker
Specifically, we're going to take a look at A.W.A. Super Sunday from 1983, featuring a very familiar name, Hulk Hogan.
00:01:39
Speaker
With Bash of the Beach ending up quite a Hogan-centric series and hitting so many major points in his career, we wanted to take a look way back and see Hogan in the early days of his rise to superstardom. Plus, frankly, a trip back to the 1980s is always good for some relaxation after watching 1999 and 2000 WSW Insanity. You don't listen to the interview theme just to calm you? No, that has the opposite effect. That sends me into a frothing rage.
00:02:07
Speaker
Ah, that that would be a problem then. Yeah, it's it's bad. And frankly, we are running kind of low on 1980s WCW shows to cover. So I think we just have like Great American Bash and Halloween Havoc that go to the 80s unless we eventually do all of Clash of the Champions or something. Yeah, that's true.
00:02:29
Speaker
AWA Super Sunday was held on April 24th, 1983, making it the oldest show that we have yet covered, beating Starrcade 1983 by about half a year. Yeah, this is the only show we've covered so far that I was not technically alive when it happened. That's true. Yeah, you, yeah, you were, uh, I'm a July baby. So yeah, hadn't thought of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was around, uh, I was March 1982. So a little over a year old at this point.
00:02:59
Speaker
It was held at the St. Paul Civic Center in St. Paul, Minnesota, in front of 20,000 fans, according to ProWrestlingHistory.com. Note that may be rounded, as according to Wikipedia, the Civic Center held between 16,000 and 17,800, depending on the seating arrangement. Although, to be fair, we do frequently see people standing in the aisles and in this kind of like odd back area and such during the show, so maybe they did overfill.
00:03:27
Speaker
In any case, it's a far cry from them filming their TV show in an empty black curtain room with footage of people watching a completely different show, right? Yeah, the fake crowd of the video walls was the best part of that pilot, for sure. It also blows Super Clash 3's 1,672 out of the water.
AWA Super Sunday Highlights
00:03:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it sure does. Wow.
00:03:51
Speaker
This was before wrestling shows were doing pay-per-view, but AWA Super Sunday got another 5,000 watching via closed circuit from the St. Paul Auditorium, which again is right at capacity. So it seems like this Hogan guy might turn out to be something of a draw. Yeah, we'll see. So will Super Sunday be as super as it claims? To find out, let's go to the ring.
00:04:16
Speaker
Speaking of Starrcade 1983, just like that show, we open with a match right off the bat. No show intro needed. Yeah. What's the video package? Yeah, they don't exist yet. The technology has not been invented. No. Yes. Yeah. I was just cracking up like, wait, again? What? Yeah. At least they do actually give the ring announcements on this one. As I vaguely recall, I don't think we even got ring announcements on Starrcade 83. I think they like literally started right in the action. I think you're right. Yeah.
00:04:46
Speaker
Speaking of our ring announcer, Mean Jean Okerlund is tonight's ring announcer. It's amazing to see early eighties Jean, as in WSW, we won't see him for another like 10 years. Yeah, that's true. So our first match is Tom Rocky Stone versus Brad Reinkens. The referee is Jim Pridgen. I mean, Bob Warren. It is a dead ring of my dad. It's amazing. You look so much like her. I did a double take when we started watching the show. It was amazing.
00:05:15
Speaker
The same came here, honestly, I was like, I don't think he was a ref in Minnesota, but, you know, he might have been the whole double life he had going on. Ali, just his sword in secret. I was a A.W.A. referee. He he never thought I'd find out because to be fair, it's an A.W.A. show. So, yeah, that's a sword in secret. So that that one's not bad. Yeah, that's true. Yes.
00:05:38
Speaker
Speaking of batch of the beach callbacks on the 1999 show, Tony mentioned that Reingans here trained swole, who was one of the participants in the eight man elimination tag match. So that's where we had heard that name before. So I did a bit of research. Brad Reingans is a pretty legit athlete from what I could tell. He won gold in 1975 Pan Am games, which essentially the precursor to the Olympics. It's a big thing, but it doesn't get the press coverage. The Olympics does obviously. Right.
00:06:08
Speaker
At the 76th Olympics, he won bronze in wrestling, which is no small feat. Third best in the world is pretty darn good. Yeah, exactly. I, nothing to sneeze at. He would go on to get gold at the Pan Am Games in 1979 as well, which is the next cycle of them. Unfortunately for him, this whole Cold War thing started to happen and we famously boycotted the 1980 summer Olympics. So he couldn't do that. Oh, but certainly he would have won some nice medal there. I'm sure.
00:06:37
Speaker
As such, he decided to go pro and got trained by Vern Gane, who himself was a Olympic contender wrestler. He never actually wrestled Olympics, but he did try to get in them essentially. And the fact that he would consider you for an Olympic position is impressive. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It takes a monumental level of achievement to even be considered. Yes. Tom Rockystone has no Wikipedia page, so I don't think about him at all.
00:07:04
Speaker
Presumably he's, uh, he's the human form of the squirrel from Rocky and Bullwinkle. That works for me. Yeah. Gene pronounces Brad's name as Ringans, where we've been saying, uh, Reingans. I looked it up on some other AWA footage and they say Reingans there. So I'm pretty sure we're correct. Yeah.
00:07:26
Speaker
As non Al's dad gives the wrestlers some pre-match instructions, we first actually hear tonight's commentator, Rod Trunkard. He will not actually think to introduce himself until a bit into the match. Yeah. Do we ever actually see him at all on the show? I don't think we don't think so. No, I don't think they ever cut to the commentary team. We might like get a shot from a distance when they're just filming the ringside area or something, maybe. But yeah, I don't believe that we ever actually see a shot of him.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, we're not at 90's WCW where they just cut to the announcers, even when they really don't want you to cut to them. Yes. Famously, Bash of East 2000. Oh my gosh, I still am so sympathetic to Tony, especially on that show. Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
Ryngans overpowers Stone, encounters charges and strikes, taking him down multiple times and working the arm, but Stone shoulder blocks him out of a leapfrog and goes for a few pins off of strikes as he works around a headlock. He gets Ryngans on the apron, then repeatedly smashes Ryngans to turnbuckles as the ref gets increasingly annoyed with him.
00:08:30
Speaker
How did you start feeling instinctively guilty then with the ref looking like your dad? I imagine the ref saying your entire name, your first last and middle name. That's when you know you. Yeah. That's worse than a four count. Thomas Rocky Stone, you sees that right now. Ron Gens finally shoulder blocks him through the ropes and lunges in, landing rapid strikes and a headcracker. Kind of like if you hold a guy like for a pile driver, but then you just jump on his neck.
00:08:57
Speaker
Ryan Gens hits a couple drop kicks and a gut wrench suplex, which Trongard, much like Soli, calls a suplay for the three count and the win. Thoughts on this one? That was a pretty good match. It's a pretty simple formula. Ryan Gens at this point, he's obviously a legit Olympic wrestler, as mentioned. So his whole thing is working holds and throws. Again, I don't know anything about stones. I don't know what his actual wrestling acumen, other than what we see on here is.
00:09:26
Speaker
But he definitely plays the more like standard pro wrestler where more about striking and especially in his, as a heel, he's cheap shotting. Yeah. The obvious story is legit Olympic athlete versus the guy, you know, taking cheap shots and striking him. Makes you really feel for Rankin to come back, which if it's kind of abrupt, because we had her mind herself, they're watching 93 wrestling. Yes. And we'll be a, I don't know, maybe a two count at best is the finish. So.
00:09:55
Speaker
I don't think it's anything like amazing. This isn't like a match you go. Oh, I gotta go track this down and watch it, but nothing bad happens. They all pretty good.
00:10:02
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was a perfectly acceptable opening match. There wasn't really anything surprising other than a neat slam where Runggens lifted Stone's full body by his arm from the mat, which was quite cool. Oh yeah. But everything was solidly done. Runggens and Stone handled the mat wrestling and grappling for position quite well, and the swings of momentum felt earned, with good solid hits in each case leading up to the turn. Runggens final flurry was nice too, giving an exciting finish.
00:10:30
Speaker
I think they did maybe go back to the apron turnbuckle smashes a couple too many times before Reingans was able to counter. It got a bit repetitive and made the ref look ineffectual as he worn stone over and over to no avail. But other than that, it was a solid and very fun opener.
00:10:46
Speaker
I think for a stroke of context, it's important to look at this match for the audience and as time again, as mentioned, because we're used to watching mid to late nineties, WCW where, right? Yeah. The slew of cruiserweights, you know, whether they're from Mexico, America, Japan, where have you. And that's your big show popping intro match.
00:11:05
Speaker
But this has been a soda in the 1980s, and this is especially this is for in Ghana. So having the straight on the aggressive or beat the guy striker absolutely makes sense as they're warm the crowd up for it. Yeah. And they get your reaction. So it's not like it gets no reaction, but it's just we got to remember that this is a show of its era for all the good and everything. Yeah. And it did have a it did keep quite a fast pace. So I mean, it had the qualities that they end up finding in the cruiser weights later on. Mm hmm. Just it was less flippy.
00:11:36
Speaker
But they have very less Sophia. It had the speed and the intensity of performance, I think, that you look for for a good opening match. So I think it did its job, but definitely. Yeah, if you compare it to a later match begin to show the singles ones, you can tell they pasted more as a hey, you guys have, you know, X number of minutes, pay your stuff and then, you know, boom and pop the crowd. So yeah, it definitely works. So after the ABA folded, Reigen briefly worked in the WWF and it is actually working in New Japan.
00:12:06
Speaker
We've kind of covered New Japan and Japan in general, but mostly New Japan. They had this real fondness for both big American wrestlers, you know, the Gaijin they liked, but also the ones with real like legit wrestling backgrounds. Yeah. Like those, those few Russians as we covered way back in the Starrcade show, but to really wish you had more of them. And the Steiners, of course. The Steiners, that's true.
00:12:30
Speaker
So it's not a surprise to find out this Olympic guy who is a pretty big dude. He's no small guy, worked a lot of them. Yeah. His last few opponents include such names as El Samurai, who we saw on collision Korea. Right. Yeah. Shinjiro Itani. Ooh, cool. One of our one show wonders, sadly. Yeah. I still hope that we get to see him again sometime. And John's favorite, Jushin Thunder Liger. Nice.
00:12:57
Speaker
The big thing, obviously, that Brian Ginn does, he sort of hinted at the past time he got mentioned is that he became a trainer for a lot of wrestlers. Noble names he trained include Tom Zink, Bradshaw, Jerry Lynn, and of course, my personal favorite, the Mastodon Vader. Very nice. If you can say, hey, I was the guy that trained Vader, you have made your name in professional wrestling.
00:13:19
Speaker
Absolutely. It's interesting too. Cause yeah. I mean, you look at it and think, okay, he trained Bradshaw and Vader. Absolutely. That makes sense. We're like, Oh, he does three Jerry Lynn. So the guy that trained both of them, that's interesting. Yeah. Quite contrasting styles. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a testament to his ability as a performer than to be able to give these guys with disparate talents, all a solid grounding, but then also be able to let them grow in their own ways. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:13:49
Speaker
We almost get our title. As Trongard says, let's go to Gene Okerlund in the ring. You know, if he was on more shows, we could call this our show that, but I don't think he's on enough. Yeah. Yeah. Gene is with Reingans. Ladies and gentlemen, I have with me here on the ring coming off a victory. I know you're winded, but Brad Ringans, I want to corner you momentarily.
00:14:15
Speaker
for the fans watching the closed circuit TV at nine thirty four. You got the pinfall over Rocky Stone out of Baton Rouge Louisiana. Tell us a little bit about that great move.
00:14:29
Speaker
I want to tell you, Gene, that's been my bread and butter all year. The soup side suplex. And I know one thing, it's just great to be out here in St.
Tag Team Matches and Women's Titles
00:14:37
Speaker
Paul again. These are the best people in the world right here. All right, well, Brad, I don't want you to get the wrong idea. We have other combatants that are entering the ring area at this time. Tremendous victory, tremendous ring for you. Thank you very much, and thank you, everybody. All right, thank you, your winner at 934, Brad Ringen.
00:15:01
Speaker
It's a very basic promo here, though I like the focus on the ending move. It helps give this a more legit sports feel, which I always like. And good quick thinking by Gene, making clear what the booing is about, that there's wrestlers the crowd doesn't like coming to the ring. Can't have the audience thinking that Olympic hero Brad Reingans is disliked by the crowd.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, people wouldn't boo an Olympic wrestler until like, what, 99? It's true. You do not boo an Olympic gold medalist. Exactly. Maybe the AWA should allow another, you know, 15 seconds between matches to avoid that kind of thing happening.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah. The thing you pointed out, I thought was I didn't actually catch it first. When we originally watched this is that part of the reason that Gina's all that recapping is because poor Ryan could you just wrestled about seven, eight minute match is catching his breath. Yeah. So it's giving him time instead of going, Hey, what do you think? And he's like, Oh,
00:15:56
Speaker
He recovered nicely during that time period that Gene recapped everything. Yeah. Yeah. Gene does that quite a few times on the show, does a little bit of an intro or kind of pauses for a moment to give the guy time to catch his breath. I think the in-ring interviews are a cool idea, but as we've noted on prior shows, you don't always get the greatest quality out of them. Yeah. Because the wrestlers are exhausted justifiably. So I think Gene definitely shows he has good interviewer chops by kind of helping them along that way. Absolutely.
00:16:27
Speaker
And this is, of course, in contrast to a show we watched a while back where it seemed like everyone came out and gave a pre-match promo rather than a post-match promo. Yeah. Oh, good. Another pre-match promo. The crowd does cheer audibly for Brad as he exits, thankfully. Yes. Our second match is Steve Riegel. Not that one. No. Versus rock and roll Buck Zumhoff.
00:16:57
Speaker
Unfortunately. Yeah. The referee for this one is Bob Warren.
00:17:03
Speaker
Zumhoff has been convicted since of some truly horrible crimes, first in 1986, again in 1989, and again in 2014. So just our unfortunately occasionally necessary note that anything positive we might happen to say regarding him is only a reflection of his appearance on this particular show, not meant as any kind of positive endorsement of the man himself. Correct. Yeah, he got sentenced to 25 years in prison about 10 years ago now.
00:17:32
Speaker
Notably, most folks on this show don't get any entrance music, but Zumhoff with a rock and roll gimmick is an exception. He comes out with a ginormous old boombox too. Yeah. I think it was huge. I really, yeah, you take the time. Like how many D batteries does that thing take? Yes.
00:17:50
Speaker
They're evenly matched to start, countering each other's holds, but Zumhoff lands on his feet on a monkey flip and dropkicks Regal. They trade slams, and Trongard notes that what sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, which is an interesting variant on that saying. Regal stuns Zumhoff with some solid strikes and works the arm, sneakily using the hair to keep control.
00:18:12
Speaker
Zumhoff fights back, but Regal wears him down with knee strikes. Zumhoff tries to escape with Eddy Greiro's knee sprint, if by sprint we mean stroll, but Regal easily catches him and earns two with a second rope elbow, as Trongard notes that a loss for Zumhoff might mean that Regal gets Zumhoff's planned match against light heavyweight champion Mike Graham, himself I believe in early starcade name.
00:18:38
Speaker
Regal runs Zumhoff into the turnbuckles, but Zumhoff counters one to take over and rapidly strikes and dropkicks him. Regal wants a timeout, but Zumhoff attacks. Regal stuns him with a knee, but Zumhoff slams him and hits a second rope swing out splash for the three count and the win.
00:18:55
Speaker
Zumhoff gets his boombox and the music starts up again. I love that they try to claim that the boombox is what's playing through the sound system. Yeah. Oh, he turned on the music and you hear it over the sound system. There's no way that that is what's happening. Yeah. There's a certain level that does seem to come from his boombox. Yeah, you hear it a bit when Gene comes over a moment later. Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah. Cause like heat new ox, like closer and during the ring introductions and then he steps away. It's slightly serious in the value. Um, but yeah, the idea that that someone filling the Reno is pretty laughable. Yeah. Thoughts on this one.
00:19:30
Speaker
Oh, it's a pretty decent match. It's slightly faster and not, let's say less technical, but it's definitely, they'll say different vibes in the last match. There's still a pretty simple formula that they don't deviate from, unfortunately. So hopefully not every single match plays out the same kind of way this one did in the one four did.
00:19:49
Speaker
One thing that I keep reminding myself, I'm watching a 1983 show. I'm not going to get, you shouldn't like her here. I'm not getting, you know, the parka. So that said, I still enjoyed it. It's got a good pace. Again, there's no real big, big flashy moves. I think the most you get is that second rope move, which is this finish.
00:20:05
Speaker
But the general speed of it's nicer. My only issue with the finish is that he hits it and gets the win and regals up very quickly. Like he didn't just get knocked out. Yeah. Yeah. Even the idea is that it's a splash the stomach. So it's more like knocking the wind out of them. Then I'd say a knockup will look a kick. It's still a little weird. They get some more annoyed that he lost and like actually taken out. Yeah, it is. It is an impact move in this case. It's not, you know, a roll up or something like that. Yeah. That does it. It's an impact move that stuns you. So you should sell it a little longer.
00:20:36
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I thought there was some good quick action between these two. They both got time to look good and showed some character moments in the mix, like some off being sure to go slam for slam with regal regal had some good sneaky heal exchanges with the ref too. But Warren felt more consequential in the story of this match, which was nice. I also really liked regal strikes in general. They looked good and solid. Yeah.
00:21:01
Speaker
I do think they maybe took a little bit too much time on Regal's armbar on Zumhof when arm damage never really became important to the match. That's fair. It was pretty clearly just a rest hold. Yeah. But a good solid finish to this one too. I enjoyed it. Mm-hmm.
00:21:17
Speaker
For me, it's just a shame that all the stuff that this guy did, that being Buck, not Regal obviously, Regal seemed like, as far as I know, he didn't do anything terrible. It's a shame he did all that stuff for, I mean, for a number of reasons, but especially because I'm watching and thinking, oh, this guy's actually not that bad. It might be interesting to see, see him more later. And I'm like, oh, no, nevermind. Yeah. Yeah. Like, no, I don't really want to, but.
00:21:38
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, we can compliment his performance on this show. I think he does. He, you know, for all his many other faults. Yeah, that's true. Was a talented wrestling performer. Yeah, we can say that, I think that's fair.
00:21:53
Speaker
Buck would actually win the title from Graham, although it appears to be not the match that they're talking about it. Cause it happens about a month after that. They are, you know, touring companies. So it's not surprising. They have multiple matches like that throughout. In fact, him and Riegel would seem to be the top two guys other than Graham himself, because they trade the title back and forth over the next two years. Okay.
00:22:14
Speaker
Obviously there's a sudden stop to his total rain when he sent, gets sent to prison for the first time. He would also win light heavyweight gold in the NWA slash Jim Crocker promotions. Okay. And he'd actually later become a job within WWF more after his return from prison, which would be around 89 or so. So Regal, when he wasn't, when JCP, he became a heel and he was tag team with Jimmy Garvin who we've seen a couple of times on the show. Yeah.
00:22:45
Speaker
No, that's my surprise. You surprised me reading it. I'm sure there's context to how this happened, but she's going through the title history. It shows that the team of Jimmy Garvin and Steve Riegel beat the road warriors for the tag title. Wow. I like to like, they like running him with a tank or something. I can't, I, I know offensive Riegel, obviously no offense to Garvin, but I was like, especially in like, in that eighties, I'm like, how did that happen?
00:23:10
Speaker
That is astonishing. Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know much of Regal's career, but I mean, in fairness, Garvin was a free bird. Yeah. So like he is a member of one of the storied tag teams as well. But that does still seem astonishing that that would happen. Yeah. Yeah. Has to be massive, massive cheating going on in that one. Yeah.
00:23:33
Speaker
The other thing it's unfortunate with Zemov is so he gets sent to prison and then he's released. It's like a D felony, but it's still a very bad thing. He did obviously, but he basically went right back to where he started, which is kind of kind of messed up. Yeah. That company's like, Hey, don't worry about that thing you did and head to prison for. Come on in, buddy. Yeah. I hope you got dirty looks in the locker at least. I would imagine so. Yeah. Yeah. So he would also work for the WVF.
00:24:02
Speaker
because his size, he was never going to be a top star. So he was just there to get beat up by the big names. He's, uh, his job actually goes up pretty far. Notably, he would be a jobber for the undertaker in his early days. Okay. And to see how long he's there. He's also a jobber from the new days of Triple H. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So he has guys that they come, they come into his area and they look up for a show. He wasn't a regular contractor talent. Gotcha.
00:24:30
Speaker
Zemhoff would also be the final lightweight champion for the AWA before they would close in 1991. And of course the only, I mentioned about his 2014 eviction, which is a note is that, so he's convicted of the crime and he decided, well, I might as well try to run out the courtroom. Yeah, that didn't work out as you could probably guess the fact that he's a prison. Yeah. So he got that added to a sentence, although they rank concurrently, but yeah, he tried to escape.
00:24:58
Speaker
Not the smartest move. No. Like I tell you things like I know obviously you don't have a lot of options, but that can't be your best option. Yeah. Yeah. Appeal. Appeal with maybe better options and try to run away. I think. Yes. Gene returns to interview Zumhof.
00:25:18
Speaker
Let's go to ringside and be local. All right, ladies and gentlemen, I have with me at this time the man with the music. You've got to be delighted. 11.05 at a big bull bond. Floridian stood Steve Riegel. And of course, you make your way. Rock and roll, Buck Zumoth, ultimately for a shot at the Light Heavyweight Championship. You know, this makes me number one. The Gorges.
00:25:59
Speaker
Some kind of seems to forget Graham's name there for a moment.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. It was a short enough promo to fit in the Russo era, but it makes more sense that these are going to be short since they're right as guys are finished with their matches and they're tired out and out of breath. Yeah. I'm fine with it for the sports atmosphere. It is interesting. Again, you don't want to associate stuff with a guy like him because of what he did his personal life, but
00:26:26
Speaker
He's oddly ahead of the whole rock and wrestling thing that would happen within the next couple of years. Yeah. In fact, involving people later on the show. That's true. So it's interesting that he started pushing that even if it's more of a Southern rock thing. Our third match. The show just moves along. Yep. Is the golden Greek John Tolos versus Jerry the King Lawler. Special referee, Steve Olsenowski.
00:26:55
Speaker
I like the blue and white color scheme that Lawler has tonight. Kind of stands out nicely. Yeah. I noticed there was some airbrushing on his, his outfit of pool. I'm wondering if he did that or if he has like a guy he knows that does that. Cause I know he has a long history of doing a lot of his own art. So. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say he does that, doesn't he? So that could be a King original. Yeah. At the very least he's like, Hey, did the sketch. Can you make an airbrush on my tights? Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker
Gene mentions that Lawler appeared some time ago on The David Letterman Show during his intro. This was in the midst of the famous feud between Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufman, including the on-air fight on Letterman in 1982, to which Gene is probably referring here.
00:27:38
Speaker
Tolos ignores a handshake, so Lawler turns away, only for Tolos to swiftly hit him from behind. Great spot there. Tolos lands heavy strikes, and works Lawler's arm until Lawler punches free. Tolos charges, but Lawler gets a punch ready, so Tolos quickly stops, earning a good laugh from the crowd. Lawler gets the crowd counting as he wrenches on Tolos's neck. Someone in the crowd yells, get the camera out of the way, which probably ain't happening as those are kind of essential to the show, pal.
00:28:07
Speaker
True, yeah. You may have a fundamental misunderstanding of what this thing is. Lauler earns two with a sunset flip, but they knock each other down for a six count, and Tolos uppercuts Lauler out over the top rope. The bell rings, but the ref quickly corrects the timekeeper that he is not disqualifying Tolos. Lauler stuns him with a knee strike on one pin escape, cool to see that a kickout was being used as offense.
00:28:33
Speaker
Lawler lands rapid ground punches to the crowd's approval and earns two with a diving fist drop. Several turnbuckle rams, but Tolos dodges a corner charge and goes for a knee drop, but Lawler dodges and hits the pile driver for the three count and the win. Trongard claims that Tolos was unconscious. He clearly wasn't as he was visibly trying to kick out, but he was definitely selling being at least badly dazed. Yeah, that's fair. Thoughts on this one?
00:29:01
Speaker
I thought this was a quite enjoyable match. There's not a lot of stuff you can like diagram like a Crispin wah match or Agatie grow match or like a Rick flair match where there's like there's subtle nuances to how you work this whole older than that.
00:29:14
Speaker
But it's the, got a fun old school feel. It only feels like the kind of match if you were watching the wrestling shows that would run on Saturday mornings, early afternoons in the eighties, which obviously that was the anyways, big thing. They had the SBN TV deal. So feels in line with that. I like that it feels different than the last two matches just by way of the character of both men. Yes.
00:29:38
Speaker
It's not to say that Reingens or Buck or Riegel or Stone were bad in there, but the pair is wrestled very similarly and the matches feel very similar. So this one having a different kind of feel, definitely less than my concerned after having two singles matches that felt very similar than the third singles match. I'm like, Oh, what's this show going to be like?
00:30:00
Speaker
Obviously we're talking with Lawler. He was got an amazing career. Got like 50 world titles if you count as Memphis promotion, which he ran.
Main Event Preview: Hogan vs. Bockwinkle
00:30:07
Speaker
So maybe you don't count those, but it's a lot of people do. I also liked that they went from more of a, not full on comedy, but definitely a comedic heel with Tolos. He did good spots. Like he's selling days. Like he, you know, he'd run us up to the corner.
00:30:25
Speaker
It never goes full on comedy. It doesn't go like full, like a, you know, late 2010 Santino Morello match or that kind of thing. Or can Eric Young match in TNA, but it was wonder, I think they can help make the match feel different enough. And Lawler being as weird as it sounds for someone who first started watching Lawler when he's the full on cartoon character announcer in WWF in like 2000, 2001. It's weird seeing him play the straight man, but he does a good job with it.
00:30:55
Speaker
Telus does some comedy bump. He's like, Oh, that works. You know, that kind of stuff. They seem like they're going to tease the sudden face, come back and then hit the finish and win. Like the last two matches did, but then they slightly misdirected by having like two or three more spots afterwards. Yeah. So it keeps a crowd on Ed, which is nice. You can tell both of these guys are quite experienced because there's a little bit more complexity to the finish of the match. Yes. A couple of like misdirects, like you said.
00:31:21
Speaker
I didn't like seeing the pile driver was nice and the sell of it was good as well. Yeah, I thought this was a surprisingly intense fight actually. It did have a lot of comedy as well though. Lawler's big personality mixed quite well with Tolos' quite brutal strikes, easily drawing sympathy from the crowd. And Tolos sold big for Lawler when Lawler got his offense in.
00:31:46
Speaker
Probably shouldn't but I really loved his over the top collapse from the late match fist drop Where he does the like get knocked down sit up in the days and slump again. Yeah It's pretty funny. It's it's more comedic than dramatic, but it was fun. Mm-hmm
00:32:02
Speaker
There was a good mix of intensity and comedy to this overall that blended better than I expected, and Lawler in particular showed a lot of character and some crowd interaction. Even little stuff like kind of a, well, now this is happening expression after Tolos' kick out as he clearly started thinking Piledriver. Oh yeah. So yeah, I had a lot of fun watching this one.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely not a match that you would swap out as like a main event match. What does the tension in the match from the wrestlers? There's not a big story intensity to it. Yeah. Like I said, it's a enjoyable match. I viewed again, watching TV. You're watching this on ESPN or like a WVF show. Absolutely enjoyable.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, and I agree with you. This had a different feel to the previous two matches. I think part of it is that these two did put more character into it. The first two, it's not like they didn't have character at all, but there weren't really notable moments that were just kind of a pause for character.
00:32:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. These guys had a little little touch more and we'll see a lot more of that in a later match tonight. But this feels like one that's maybe a little bit in that transition period of wrestling where we're starting to think more about character. Yeah. Tullos is entering career would mostly end by 1984. He moved on to do managing and color commentary. He would manage such teams as the Beverly Brothers, who we saw on the ABA repilot as the destruction crew.
00:33:28
Speaker
still the best promo of all time. Oh, yeah. So they're sort of waving their hammers at the backdrop and the building collapses like a mile away from it. That's wonderful. We did that, sir. Oh, go. He also managed Cactus Jack, as well as Cowboy Bob Orton and Kurt Henig across the WWF and the U.W.F., which is where he managed Jack and Orton. Oh, right. He was like the coach or something, right?
00:33:56
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's a brief period where he was the manager for Kurt Hennig and the barely brothers at the same time as well. Yeah. As for Lawler, he would of course be very important history of the AWA as he would be the champion in 1988 unifying it with the WCCW title or world class championship wrestling title and then quitting after over lack of pay. Yep. If you want to get the full star in that you have to watch the superclass three episode for context.
00:34:28
Speaker
we crosscut right from that match to the next match without any break. No. It feels deeply strange that we didn't get an interview with Jerry the King Lawler of all people. Yeah. But the AWA has something different in mind for that later. That is true. So our fourth match is Judy Martin and Velvet McIntyre versus the Texas Cowgirls, Wendy Richter and Joyce Grable for the Cowgirls NWA Women's World Tag Team Championship.
00:34:58
Speaker
Referee for this one is Bob Warren. So this actually does go back a bit of ways. The champions being Richter and Grable would form in 1982. So about a year before this show.
00:35:10
Speaker
put together by a manager who thought their styles would mix well together. They would actually wrestle in Stewart's Tampede wrestling in Canada against the very same duo, Judy Martin and Bill McIntyre. Basically, this isn't a one-off match with these teams. They're regular opponents. Probably, I would imagine, given the business work, by this point, they were touring between promotions, doing this match or similar matches across the US.
00:35:34
Speaker
You can kind of tell from the match, this is not a one off thing. This is aside from just, I think the smoothness with which they work together, not to spoil opinions on it, but this feels like there is more emotion in the feud. Yeah. As the ref is giving instructions, Richter just up and slugs McIntyre. So I guess we're off. Mm hmm. McIntyre versus Richter to start. But Grable sneaks in a strike from the apron. So Richter can hurl McIntyre through the ropes.
00:36:03
Speaker
McIntyre makes it back in, and dodges a second attempt, so Richter spills out. The four trade out against each other, with McIntyre and Martin getting the better of early exchanges, mainly focusing on arm work, as Grable and Richter complain to the ref and get lectured repeatedly.
00:36:18
Speaker
After some quick reversals, Richter tags Grable, who slugs McIntyre to take control. Shockingly, when McIntyre reports Grable biting her, the ref actually believes her. Yeah. That never happens. Grable and Richter wear down McIntyre and use her long hair against her, snapmarrying her by it, and standing on it to keep her down.
00:36:40
Speaker
McIntyre tags Martin, who beats up Richter and Grable in turn, but Richter knocks her into the corner and trades off with Grable, beating Martin up and sneaking in chokes wherever possible, until Martin clotheslines Richter and makes the tag. McIntyre runs wild with a monkey flip, drop kicks, and a flying head scissors, and everyone's in. McIntyre and Martin shove the cowgirls into each other, and each pins one of them, as Warren counts McIntyre's pin for two, even though Martin was the legal face.
00:37:08
Speaker
Everybody dodges, everybody splashes. Grebel sneaks in a strike from the apron, and Richter puts McIntyre in an inverted body vice, but McIntyre won't give up. Richter backbreakers her onto Grebel's knee, and Martin protests, but that distracts Warren, so Richter back-body drops McIntyre into a Grebel powerbomb for the three count and the win.
00:37:30
Speaker
Martin did actually get there in time to interfere, but everyone just kind of, kind of ignored it. Yeah, it was a little weird. I'm guessing Richter was supposed to stop the charge, but Mr. Spot. Yeah, it's very possible. Thoughts on this one? I thought this was a very good match. It's one of those kind of matches we don't get to see a lot of. We've had one or maybe two of these kind of matches, right? We had one, did we have one inclusion in Korea, I believe, between two Japanese teams? Uh, I think so. Yeah. And then I think it was on the Slamboree series maybe.
00:38:00
Speaker
I think you're right. Yeah.
00:38:02
Speaker
You know, I liked this match a lot is that they really did a good job of the sort of the classic old school tag team wrestling. Yes. Every time the face is near the corner, they're always trying to grab her. Yeah. Or charge strike or, or, you know, stop her from doing something. There's never a moment where it's like, they're not ready for something to happen. Like they're not in the corner and like, Oh yeah, that's fine. I just bought, you know, they're like, Oh, my spot's in another minute or so I'll just sit here. Right. They're never off. It is great.
00:38:32
Speaker
They keep the momentum going nicely as well by trading off between the one face coming in, getting, you know, a big house of fire and the comeback, but then being shut down. It keeps the mat from going in that same format of here's a big comeback. Now we win, which I liked as well. It's good to keep the show for us. But yeah, it's, it's pretty simple form. I mean, the heels are constantly cheating and constantly attacking the faces are just so strong, but you can't always watch your back.
00:38:59
Speaker
The most interesting thing to me in this match is seeing the finish that Richter and Graebel use. Cause I'm sure people have done it before, but as soon as I see that move, I go, Oh, it's the faces of fear. This is Megan Barbarian. That's literally their finish. Yeah. Yeah. Ming does the back by drop into Barbarian, I believe. And does the power bomb.
00:39:21
Speaker
It's the only connection between these two teams, but it's crazy to see that exact move like that. You'd be like watching a sixties match and then someone's doing the figure four. You're like, Oh yeah. So I said that too. Yeah. I mean, frankly, it's interesting to see a power bomb at all in the early eighties. That's true. I'm not used to seeing that until like, you know, the Vader or said vicious period. That's true. Yeah.
00:39:45
Speaker
Even though they don't do, like, promo content, I do like the characters of all four are very prevalent throughout the match as well. Yes, Grable in particular is so interactive with the ref. Yeah, so like even before, they're never being off. They're never a point where they're just wrestling the match or just having a fight. They never forget to emote and do their character stuff. They're just nice. Right. Holy crap, an AWA show with a women's match that's not an insult to the entire gender.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. This was a good fast paced tag match with a lot of nice heel tag tactics on the part of the cowgirls, including some very cool double teams. That finisher in particular was really neat and great toughness and fire from Martin and McIntyre. Richter had some particularly the creative moves. It's easy to see why she got very popular.
00:40:37
Speaker
The teams really got in each other's faces and the refs and brought a lot of emotion to the match too. As I said, I was not surprised when you said that this was a longer running feud because you feel that this has a longer rivalry behind it, watching it for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Very, very good match.
00:40:54
Speaker
It's impressive to me too, again, not being super familiar with the 80s wrestling audience, for a number of reasons, but I was worried that when they get deep into, like deep into the match, how the crowd's going to react. The crowd really does seem invested in the match happening. So you work on them, they keep the crowd into this, which is nice as well. Definitely. Yeah.
00:41:17
Speaker
The combination of the WWF leaving the NWA as a territory as part of their big plan to take over the rustic business, which they've done pretty well on all things centered.
00:41:27
Speaker
And apparently the Fabulous Mula technically owning the rights to the NWA Women's Tag Titles, which I'm not sure how that works legally, but I actually did. Wow. Yeah. So she definitely owned the NWA Women's Championship, which is why when she came over, she kept that title and they just made the WF Women's Championship. And why they kept this idea that she was, you know, the 25 year champion and all that.
00:41:49
Speaker
Apparently she also owned the tag championships as well. So she eventually sold them to WF. And then a lot of these people came over, Edward WF, notably the deal of the McIntyre and Prince's Victoria would be the inaugural WF women's tag team champions in 1984. Oh, okay. So about a year after this, notably the Italy would eventually recover their women's tag team championships in the year 2021.
00:42:17
Speaker
But yeah, that's part of the experiment. They ran what unfortunately at this point I believe is only one off. They ran a one off show called end of the way in power, which was produced by Mickey James and a bunch of other people. And it was an all women's pay review that ran through the end of the way. And as part of that, they reestablished the end of a women's tag team champions chips, which are still a thing. Oh, okay. As much as the end of the way is still a thing. It's kind of relative, I suppose. Okay.
00:42:47
Speaker
And obviously notably when to Richter, when she got to WF, she'd be a pretty big star at the face of the rocket wrestling movement. Yes. She's instrumental to the first WrestleMania. The WF ran an entire show one night in 1985, I believe it's build a WrestleMania. Only two of the matches were actually shown on MTV as a TV special.
00:43:10
Speaker
And it's like one of the highest rated wrestling things on TV. I think up until they did the title match on Saturday Night Made Event with Hogan and Andre. So yeah, her and I believe it was her and Mula main eventing that was like the biggest thing in pro wrestling, ratings wise, for quite a while. Amazing. Obviously it helped that she was being managed by Sadie Lauper. Yeah. But still, fair play to her. Yeah. Jean gets in the ring to interview the Texas cowgirls.
00:43:40
Speaker
All right, ladies and gentlemen, my guest, the success for the fans of the Ladies Tag Team Championship of the World, Wendy Rector to my right, to my left, Joyce Scrabble, Joyce McIntyre, and Martin truly testing the two of you tonight. Oh, you know, they're good wrestlers, but when you got the best, what else can you ask for? And Wendy and I are the best because you see who's got these belts, don't ya?
00:44:07
Speaker
We are the champions, and we're unbeatable. All right, well enough is enough. Ladies, I thank you for your time. Joyce Scrabble, Wendy Richter, successful title defense for the Ladies Tag Team Championship of the World, part of Super Sunday and the Giant Spectacular in St. Paul.
00:44:31
Speaker
Another quick interview here, but I do like Grable taking the time to note that their opponents were good on the way to noting that they were better. That's true. It's always good to see someone build up their opponent. I always appreciate that. Absolutely. Especially as they know that they're probably going to have some version of this match like six more times over the different territories of the next year or so. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to totally belittle the opponent really ever because as we've pointed out many times, you
00:44:58
Speaker
look better if you win then or you don't look as bad if you lose. True. But also, yeah, if you're going to do significant amounts of business with these people going forward, then keeping the crowd interested in the feud by building up, oh, they did quite well against us is important. Yeah, absolutely. Match five is Dizzy Ed Boulder versus Wahoo McDaniel. The referee for this one is Steve Olsenowski.
00:45:26
Speaker
Al, who is dizzy at Boulder? Well, when the, uh, certain blonde, mustachioed man entered the AWA, he entered as Terry Boulder and a guy who looks kind of similar to him and grew his hair out and mustache out the same color came his brother, I guess, cousin named Eddie Boulder. I were in the suing time since Terry Boulder became Terry Hulk Hogan slash the credible Hulk Hogan as we'll see in this show.
00:45:56
Speaker
And Ed Boulder also exists. I'm really not sure why he's dizzy. Like is dizzy like the least dignified and least intimidating nickname you can have in wrestling? It it is unless you've played, I think it's guilty gear, in which case it's it's terrifying. Oh, OK, gotcha.
00:46:18
Speaker
Like unless you're like, you know, Joe, the loser, Stevens, I feel like Disney's a pretty bad one. I'm not sure that you, uh, how you live that one down. Yeah. Ed boulders, of course, Ed Leslie, who would go on to have about 15 or 16 gimmicks. Insane. Good gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Also follow Hogan everywhere he goes, but you know.
00:46:42
Speaker
And of course we've seen several of those gimmicks that he eventually has on our show. We've seen him as the Butcher, the Zodiac, the Disciple. He was almost unrecognizable here. Yeah.
00:46:51
Speaker
Obviously this is before he had his face broken in the parasailing accident. That's true. Yeah. But like, even if you compare this to his early work in the WWF, I don't think you would recognize the guy. It's like a completely different appearance demeanor, you know, even like body shape. Yeah. I would never have called without someone having told me that this was endlessly. Yeah. If you look at the eyes, you can definitely see it because obviously, like I said, a lot of his face was damaged. The parasailing accident. Obviously the eyes didn't change.
00:47:20
Speaker
What's notable, I think we can tell is I remember that after poor and Leslie in character, mind you, was rejected for the NWO at, uh, that's the one hog wild show. He disappeared for a while. He went out and, you know, cut weight and got really, really jacked and grew his hair and beard out. And then suddenly became the disciple. Look at the, those two pictures side by side. You can see that's true. Yeah. It looks, it looks like him during that era. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
00:47:48
Speaker
So he's kind of returning to an earlier era when he goes with that. Yeah. During introductions, Trongard says that Wahoo is the favorite here, which yeah, sounds about right. The ref now has incredibly blue pants.
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's weird. He, same ref as the Lawler match and he was not wearing that bright, bright, like almost glowing blue. It did like, was he like sitting, sitting down and like spilled coffee? Like, Oh, I got to change. What do you, what do you guys got? All we have are bright blue track pants. You can see from space. Yeah. It's amazing. It's like, yeah, you, you have no trouble picking out where the ref is in the rain. That's pretty true. I'm pretty sure these would glow in the dark. If you turn the lights out.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah, probably. After a couple clean breaks, Boulder sneaks into knee strike only for Wahoo to counter with chops, trick him on a test of strength, and work his head and arm as Jerry Lawler suddenly joins Trongard. Yeah. But his microphone doesn't work. Wahoo McDaniel, failing microphones, so many Starrcade 83 flashbacks tonight. Yeah, I mean, well, the fact that the mic's not working makes us feel at home. Yes. Watching WCW shows. Yes.
00:49:05
Speaker
Tron Guard notes that Wahoo doesn't stand still for any shenanigans. I have missed early 1980s commentary. Yeah. Tron Guard shares his headset and Lawler praises the show and says he's glad there wasn't a disqualification in his match with Tolos as he wanted to win by pinfall. So there's your post-match promo for Lawler. Yeah, pretty much.
00:49:28
Speaker
Boulder eventually lands some quite nice knee drops and gets two with a leg drop as Lawler name drops Andy Kaufman in a conversation about his pile driver. Boulder gets some two counts with a flexing pin as Lawler joins in the actual match commentary and Wahoo darn near does a flare flip on a corner whip. That was surprising, yeah.
00:49:48
Speaker
Wahoo turns things around with more chops and gets one with a suplex, but Boulder distracts the ref to sneak in a close fist punch, only for Wahoo to fire back with more chops, run him into the turnbuckles, and hit the tomahawk chop and an elbow drop for the three count and the win. Thoughts on this one?
00:50:04
Speaker
It's, uh, it's all right. Obviously we have a certain bar at this point where we had Leslie matches. So it's better than his match with Kevin Sullivan, where he's the man with no name on those like ugly gray tights. He was wearing the, the one show. Yes. Yeah. And better than a Starrcade 94 main event, I would say it's, yeah, it's mercifully much shorter than that as well. This is also, this is also true. Yes. Yeah.
00:50:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's, there's no botches here, but that said, there's not really a lot of big spots. They tend to work through pretty quickly. So there's not a, I can eat hold. You can call out to.
00:50:40
Speaker
The only thing that really got my attention is, as we mentioned, Wahoo doing the A version of the flare corner bump, but it's interesting. Yeah. Really trying to sell Ed Leslie's, it's easier to call him that, Ed Leslie's power here, which he has a very good build here. So it's understandable that he could be that strong. I wish I had more to say about it, but yeah, there's really not much to it.
00:51:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's still a Wild McDaniel match where matches are all about hitting many chop, but then one chop is apparently more powerful because they're running, I guess. And he wins.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah. I wouldn't call this a complicated match by any means, but I do feel like you, I think that Ed Leslie was a better performer here than he was on other shows that we've seen him. Um, he seems kind of more together in general in his performance and keeps things moving much better than he later does anyway. You know, there's no bizarre leaned over stall. Well, he's supposed to be selling or anything like that. So yeah, definitely improvement there.
00:51:39
Speaker
It wasn't uncomplicated, but perfectly acceptable match. A little strike heavy, but a few surprising bits like, you know, as you mentioned, the dynamic corner flip there. Boulder had some nice knee drops, and they both did some pretty decent character work in the middle. I liked Wahoo's fire in the ending, even though I still, as with you, don't really like the Tomahawk chop as a finisher. It just doesn't feel bigger than any of the other stuff he did. No.
00:52:06
Speaker
But overall I would call this surprisingly fine. Yeah. For me, other than the novelty of. Early at Leslie, the only real notable thing here is that it's Jerry Lawler calling a wrestling match at night day three. Yeah. I wonder just like, is this where he got the taste for it? Yeah. I got to wonder cause I would imagine over the years before he came in full-time commentator.
00:52:31
Speaker
WWF that he probably do this kind of thing a lot in various territories. Yeah. So it's interesting sort of historical anomaly 15 years or so before he comes like really well known for doing commentary that here he's just calling this random match because he walked out and wanted to talk to the fans after.
00:52:50
Speaker
after his match. And it's it's interesting because his promo during the match actually is quite good. Yeah. Like he does a perfectly good job of like doing kind of a fighting champion kind of bit, wanting to win legit. You get his personality quite nicely through it. But then, yeah, he actually does a quite reasonable job of match commentary as well. It's no surprise the guy eventually got into it because he's doing good color commentary for a drunkard. And it's kind of like it's interesting because this is where you realize what has kind of been missing from commentary for the entire show.
00:53:19
Speaker
Mm hmm. As you know, someone throwing in those little additional comments and drunkard for the rest of the show has to do this on his own, which you definitely feel he does a perfectly fine job, but you definitely feel an absence. Yeah. And Lawler's appearance here is where you realize, oh, that's what we were missing. Mm hmm.
00:53:36
Speaker
Yeah, there's a definitely, there's a dynamic nature you want to have with commentary. You don't want it to be a distraction from the show, obviously. But you want someone, you want a pairing or a trio that they're this different voice. You don't want generic dressing announcer one and generic dressing announcer two. Right.
00:53:56
Speaker
Get A to A at this point is, again, they're going for real sport based with some bigger characters involved, but they're definitely fighting against the whole big dynamic characters in general. I still really prioritize the, I'm a legit wrestler, I'm a legit fighter, look at my background kind of thing. So I understand why they don't have a regular like secondary commentator like Lawler there with them.
00:54:19
Speaker
It'd be nice to have more of that than the show though. Yeah. Stronger is a decent commentator and I'd be curious to hear him on more shows. I've heard far worse commentators on the show. Looking at you, Mark Madden. Yes. Like even, even a really good announcer, like a girl monsoon calling a whole show by himself. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not bad at all, but second you get Jessica Ventura there or you get Bobby Heenan, it's suddenly just a different animal entirely. Yeah. And you realize what you really want to have.
00:54:49
Speaker
I was going to mention Ed Leslie would follow Hogan when he would leave. We'll more on that later and go to WF where we come first beefcake. And to be fair, he really did get over for quite a while on his own merits. Yeah. There's a brief period of time, at least between let's say 80, 45 and really up through like 1990, maybe where he's really a separate entity. He's in a heel tag team with big Valentine. He's a face.
00:55:17
Speaker
as himself and all these things really before he latches on like a remora to Hulk Hogan and goes back to that. Yeah, he has a good period during the mid 80s where he is solidly his own act. Yeah. And it's kind of a shame that he eventually abandons that and goes back to just being permanently linked to Hogan.
00:55:37
Speaker
Maybe he would have developed into more. I don't know. Eventually do a joke and make fun of Ed Leslie. It's not impossible. I don't think it's impossible that could have happened on the right circumstances and the right show with the right leadership. You have been mentored by someone with an experience like a Harley race kind of figure. It could have happened. I mean, it didn't obviously, but it could have.
00:56:00
Speaker
Uh, while I think Daniel would, you know, he would work, obviously, as you covered a couple of times on DCP, but he worked the way, but he really would hang around the AWA, especially. I don't know if he spoke on this, but he seemed like he, he really felt like he fit in there more because he had just a legit sport based thing. And they weren't going to the over the top comical, generally more broad stuff that WWF became once.
00:56:24
Speaker
They became the rock and wrestling era. He, I don't know if he didn't want to do that, but he definitely didn't do any of that. So he found a mole that he liked, you know, it's already like the late seventies character and he stuck with that to serve a tease for later, by the way. Obviously, Wahoo and Daniel was probably the most famous Native American wrestler, especially at least the we've covered in the show. Yes. However, there's another birth on the show that during a brief period of time was actually a Native American wrestler. Oh, I did read about this, I think.
00:56:54
Speaker
It's more for later though. Yep. Let's keep you listening. We cross cut right to the next match and Lawler is apparently gone without even a goodbye. Apparently so.
00:57:08
Speaker
Our sixth match is Jesse the Body Ventura, Ken Patera, and Blackjack Lanza with Bobby the Brain Hienan versus Ricky Martel and the High Flyers, Greg Gagne, and Jim Brunzel in a six-man tag match. The referee for this one is Larry Lissowski, who Trongard says was apparently imported specifically for this match. Oh, okay. Got on your shipping site and ordered yourself a Lissowski.
00:57:38
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Yeah, don't, don't spring for next day shipping, of course. Oh no. Yeah, no, no. This is another thing that's kind of notable historically. So there's things that people think of when they're done, like most famously, and they maybe don't realize that it happened other places before. Like, you know, the version you're seeing is the more finalized or crystallized version of this.
00:57:59
Speaker
So I say that because the reason Hienan is out there managing is that Hienan, even in early territories like AWA, formed the idea of the Hienan family, which has these three men as well as the world champion who we'll see later. And others that would come and go, like Masa Seido would later be involved as well. So it's interesting seeing arguably the prototypical version of what we really think of as his WWF gimmick of forming the family of wrestlers.
00:58:25
Speaker
Also worth noting that again, some of your missing because they seem to cut out entrances and a bunch of stuff in the show. Brunzel and Ghana are actually the ADA way tag team champions heading into the end of a two year run as tag champions. Okay. So it's weird. We don't even see them hold the belts at all. True. Yeah. I'm guessing as a chopping is done to put this on a tape. Uh, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, probably.
00:58:49
Speaker
We're, you know, we're not going to spring for an EP tape or extend to play if you, if you're old enough to know that. Uh, I almost went to bet money. That's what happened. So we get Bobby Heenan in manager mode and Jesse Ventura in wrestling mode. Yeah. Amazing. The crowd chants weasel at Heenan to his annoyance.
00:59:12
Speaker
Yes, that is. That is the thing even back then. Yeah. Incidentally, the Weasel Taunt apparently comes from another wrestler that we've actually seen, Dick the Bruiser. Oh yes, that's true. Martel, Brunzel, and Ganya use their speed to overwhelm Patera, Ventura, and Lanza in turn, earning some one and two counts, as Trongard notes that Ventura gets his haircuts from Opal Gardener in Pine Valley, a reference to the soap opera All My Children, of all things.
00:59:41
Speaker
That's what I looked up to. I was like, that's gotta be this guy more to it than this, but no, no. Yeah, I was like thinking that was something else. Like I was like, is that like an actor or something that has that look? Yeah, that's all I could find too. I'm like, I must miss missing something here. When Martel has Lanza in trouble, Ventura reaches in to try to tag, but Gonya and Brunzel bounce on the ropes in an entirely different corner of the ring. And somehow that makes Ventura topple over wrestling. Oh, okay.
01:00:11
Speaker
Yeah, it was funny, but yeah, like, how does that make sense? Fans taunt Ventura and Hienan.
01:00:19
Speaker
Lanza finally gets Brunzel into the heel corner for some double team strikes, but Brunzel tags Ganya, who takes out all three heels and gets a sleeper on Patera, only for Ventura to sneak back in to clobber him. The heels finally get some sustained offense in, including a Lanza brain buster, which is not the suplex-like impact move that you're thinking of, but basically a nugi. Yeah. Ganya manages to push Ventura across the ring to tag Martel, but the ref distracted by Patera didn't see it.
01:00:49
Speaker
The ref imported specifically for this match due to his skills, by the way. Yeah. It's funny, actually, Trongard, I think at that very moment is praising how well the ref is doing managing the match. And there's like, oh, but he didn't see that timing. He's only one man. Gonya eventually sends Lanza to a turnbuckle and tags Martel, who beats up Lanza and hits a double noggin knocker on him and Patera. But Lanza dodges a drop kick and the heels rapidly get several two counts on Martel.
01:01:18
Speaker
Martel eventually lands several big hits to Lanza, finishing with a dropkick, and tags Brunzel, who goes for the Indian Deathlock, but Patera saves. Everybody gets in to Brawl, and Henan gets to the apron, but Brunzel decks him. Patera checks on Henan, and Henan sneaks him an Object, so when Brunzel tries the Indian Deathlock on Patera, Patera knocks him out with the Object for the 3 count and the win. Gania and Martel, assuming that he was fine, were too busy fighting Ventura and Lanza to save.
01:01:48
Speaker
Trongard thinks at first that the ref disqualified everyone for the chaos, having missed the pin. Thankfully, they do have replay, so he gets another look. Ganya protests and the ref questions Patera and Hienan about a weapon, but they deny it. Fed up, Ganya, Martel, and Brunzel charge and dispose of Hienan and company. Poor Hienan gets the worst of it with multiple turnbuckle and apron smashes.
01:02:11
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? This was a really fun match and a real sort of chaotic nature to it. And it was very energetic. I have literally written, this was a fun, chaotic tag match. That's so fun. Yeah. That's my opening thing. Fun, chaotic, energetic match. Yeah.
01:02:27
Speaker
The thing that I think that really helps match is that there's an extra two people being a six band match instead of a center tag match. Yeah. So it really allows them to sort of play with the formula bit, have more people come in and out. You can do a couple of inversions because they would have got their own style of the, you know, the face and control and the heel and control. It's interesting. It's almost like a sampler. Like if you're going to show people like these wrestlers in this era.
01:02:55
Speaker
It's a great match because you see a little bit of what Chura does. You see a little bit of Patera, Brunzel, et cetera. It's a nice sort of medley, I guess, of a match in that they come in, give my big spots, you know, his gani with his drop kicks and his super hold.
01:03:09
Speaker
It's really interesting to see Ventura wrestling as well. Yes. He's not a huge part of the match, but him just being in the ring at all. So we have not gotten on this show, unfortunately. Mm-hmm. Yeah. As any ring career didn't make it past, I think 85 is a regular thing and 86 I think is where you kind of stop wrestling completely. Like I was, but Tara's not regularly around.
01:03:34
Speaker
I definitely liked the finish of how it all played out because everyone's in the ring and fighting. So it's understandable why the faces seeing their, you know, their partner going for a submission hold. Don't bother to like check on them until they miss the quick pin and then the heels running away. I don't know if you caught this, but the ref pre-distracts himself because he knows he got to look away.
01:03:57
Speaker
Like nothing is happening in the corner. He goes, I'm looking over here now before the attention is signaled by, I think it's like Brunzel and, you know, Lanza fighting nearby. That's why you imported him because he had perfect timing. There you go. Yeah. Yes. And if I was like, I didn't look over here now, I can't be looking at this.
01:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely enjoyed this match. It's one of the ones where I can't go, Oh, here's this one amazing spot, but there's just like a constant action. And again, it's just a great sample of all the wrestlers. You get to see them, you know, a lot of them at their peak and just a little bit to that.
01:04:31
Speaker
Yeah, we got a bunch of quick swaps to keep the situation changing before the inevitable face and peril segment. And as you said, having six guys let them really keep the action moving at all times. They do work a few holds, but never leave anything lingering for long. And blessedly, the couple bear hugs that they do are elevated, which always makes them better. Yes.
01:04:52
Speaker
Bronzel comes off as not too bright in the ending though. One attempt at a lengthy finisher goes poorly, so why not try it again when the situation is no better? They did a great job with the past the object finish with Hina and Patera. And it felt legit that Martel and Ganya were too occupied to realize what had happened. Plus, as you said, it was very fun to see Finchera in his wrestling days. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very enjoyable match. Lots of fun to watch.
01:05:19
Speaker
There's an art to wrestling guys. People like to say, okay. So the way the finish goes is he maintains the object to Patera. And then he, once he's down the hold, he puts it on and, you know, punches the guy. There's a little bit there where they're like, I'm going to let him put me in this hole. Cause I know I can punch him when his guard's down. There's a, there's an actual tactic to it. I know he'll lean in just right. And this guard will be down. Yeah, exactly. When he didn't be willing to take the shot, just so we could be on the apron past the object as well. Yeah. Yep.
01:05:49
Speaker
It's a fun little, uh, little gem, I think on the show. Obviously most of the people involved as sort of talked about would go to the WWF pretty quickly after this by 86. I want everyone in the mat to save Gane as on the WWF roster in some way, shape or form.
01:06:08
Speaker
Obviously some of them had longer runs, not as many as wrestlers, but commentators like Ventura are terrorists of the Fortunately Award by injury and being sent to prison for the Boulder incident, which didn't help. The Boulder incident definitely came up when, uh, John was with us. I think it was, I think it was Star Caden 90. Yes.
01:06:31
Speaker
lands himself, you know, he hung around on off and on. So he did well. Martel had a pretty good run as a heel. You know, he famously came up the model. Yes. Where he'd wear a button that says, yes, I'm a model. In case you did know, here's the model. The board announced your gimmick on your clothing at all times. And had a spray cologne that was named arrogance in case you didn't get that he was stuck up. Yes.
01:06:56
Speaker
It is notable, however, that before he exited AWA, Rick Martell actually became AWA champion. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's, it's interesting because he has this, again, he has a pre-lengthened career in WWF and a sadly brief rung to do injury in WCW, which we'll eventually cover. But his Wiki page picture, at least at the time I was looking at it is him holding the AWA title. So that's nice that that's sort of mentioned. Yeah.
01:07:24
Speaker
Jean comes in to talk to Martel and the High Flyers.
01:07:32
Speaker
How do you explain that? I've been hit a lot of times with a forearm and a fist, but that was something he had to add something to his hands. All right, the contention. He hit him with something. The first Lambza had something. He said Patera hit him with something. What kind of a win is that? All right, the contention of the High Flyers and Ricky Martell that there was a foreign object
01:08:01
Speaker
Well, I'm sure that Rod Trungard has the replay, and the fans will have an opportunity to see it. Like it or not, your winner, 17-03. We thank you very much. Stay tuned. More action will be continuing.
01:08:17
Speaker
This was pretty disordered, but it fits the end of the match. Brunzel, Martel, and Gania did a good job of looking incensed at the heal tactics, calling out for the fan's support, and getting across that something untoward happened in the time that they were allotted. Gania mixing up Lanza with Hinan as the source of the object is a minor flub, but it's fine. In a storyline Gania probably wouldn't have known for sure. Yeah, it's reasonable. If you argue that it helps sell the chaotic nature of the finish as well, that he's not sure who had it, but... Fair point.
01:08:48
Speaker
I do think it's funny in this kind of historical irony that Brenzel is the guy decrying the cheating, obviously, because he's the guy that hit, but he's the guy who famously would go to WPF. He would, you know, be part of the killer bees. Yes. Whose whole gimmick is built around cheating because they would put on masks so they could switch out any time. I guess he learned all the wrong lessons from this match. Somehow never a part of the killer bees sting. I mean, come on, man. Yeah. Natural combo. That's true. Yeah.
01:09:20
Speaker
Brunsell very nicely sells the hit still as they exit. He's nursing his jaw. I appreciate that. Didn't just forget about it once the match was done. Yeah. Trongard does indeed get the replay and points out the nefariousness, but notes that it's still a victory for the Hienan camp. Our seventh match is Nick Bockwinkle with Bobby the Brain Hienan.
01:09:48
Speaker
versus the incredible Hulk Hogan for a Bach Winkle's AWA World Heavyweight Championship. The special guest referee is Lord James Bleers. Hogan comes in to wrestling sort of the ATBA and their territories. He's a big blonde gentleman, so they make him a heel.
Hogan's Evolution from Heel to Face
01:10:10
Speaker
You know, he's real arrogant. He's got a, you know, he's got a cape and he's managed by Freddie Blassie. But
01:10:17
Speaker
while you obviously work a hill, as we've seen over a long period of time in WCW, he has a natural charisma that people sort of attracted them to him. So they quickly realized that this guy should be a face.
01:10:30
Speaker
As we'll discuss a little more later, the problem is that he never quite got the wrestling credentials that, that Vernegane really was after, but he was just so talented in what he could do and so charismatic is a great presence that he was undeniable as becoming a top star. So I had to do a bit of deep dive here cause I had to go through cage match, which when you're looking for a Hogan matches, he had a lot as you can probably imagine. So.
01:10:59
Speaker
That's a long process. Yeah. So trying to find civic Nick Bachman goal, Hogan matches is not the easiest thing to narrow down, especially cause as part of build two matches, they'd have, they would have a bunch of handicap matches where it's back up and heenan against Hogan or tag matches following Hogan and heenan. So narrowing down the singles Hogan Bachman matches took a little bit of work.
01:11:24
Speaker
So as far as I can count, the match on this show is the 13th time Hogan challenged Nick Bachwinkle specifically for the AWE World Championship. Wow. About two, three matches back, they did a gimmick where he was awarded the title, however, on review and conveniently by the next episode of their television show, they decided that, oh, well they both used weapons during the match. So the matches have returned and thus the title returned to Bachwinkle.
01:11:53
Speaker
So that was their first sort of test. Can we give them that? I don't want to see how people react to it, but then they either got cool feed or just just felt like dicking around with the audience and overturned it. Also noting that the rare exception, all the matches were won by Hogan, but they were won via disqualification or via count-out. There's like two matches you lost via disqualification, which I'm guessing were hitting with a tear after, you know, he didn't come in there or something. The point is that Bakwing Cole,
01:12:22
Speaker
doesn't hold an actual like pin fall as mission victory or Hogan. And mind you, there's so many matches cause this goes back to February of 1982, which as far as I could tell was the first Hogan Bach Michael title match. Okay. So it's been quite a feud. Yes. We're in April 90, April 83. Excuse me. So yeah, they'd be going to this for a while and says, yeah, as far as I can tell, this is the 13th title match.
Hogan vs. Bockwinkle: The Match
01:12:45
Speaker
So good luck.
01:12:49
Speaker
That in and of itself actually says something about Hogan's popularity because they've done this match 13 times. Yeah. But you hear how hot the crowd is for him still. Yeah. Coming out that despite this being the 13th time they've seen this match up, they're still ready for it. Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Hienan leads Bakwinkle out and yells at Jean a bit.
01:13:14
Speaker
Hogan gets actual entrance music. Yeah. And it is fairly obviously trying to sound like Eye of the Tiger from Rocky 3. Well, there is a reason for that. Hogan's AWA theme music was Eye of the Tiger. Oh, it actually was. So this is a replacement. Yes. Yeah. If it sounds like Eye of the Tiger, it's because it's supposed to. Nice. This is Network Dub, Eye of the Tiger. Now, as you know, this is Network Dub, or this could be, again, if I'm right about being a VHS release, taped up.
01:13:44
Speaker
It might be AWA not wanting to pay or it might be WWE not wanting to pay. We're not sure which. Yeah.
01:13:51
Speaker
I probably never worked up though, because it's definitely, it's a smooth dub. Yeah. It's smoother than some other Hogan theme dubs, like when they dubbed her a video child. Yes. For anyone who may not be aware, I'm not sure who that possibly could be at this point. Hogan was in Rocky three. Yes. During a segment where Rocky has a exhibition match against a pro wrestler. He has thunder lips. Thunder lips, yes.
01:14:18
Speaker
The crowd is very into Hogan. Yeah. Very, very into Hogan. The AWA evidently didn't have anywhere near the WWF's marketing department. So Hogan's shirt is just a black t-shirt with plain white text stating, we want the belt now or never. He holds up another copy of the shirt and then gifts it to Gene. How did he kept that?
01:14:47
Speaker
I hope so. Like Jean's grandkids wear that shirt. What's this mean? Eh, that's nowhere about it. Just wear the shirt. That's the thing I find interesting about, about that entrance as well. It seems like in a weird sort of way, Hogan is ahead of the curve with wrestler merchandise as well. Yes.
01:15:03
Speaker
Because that's absolutely a thing now. But anybody on a show with rare exception, they have a shirt they're selling you. Got their name or got their face. It's got some something with them on it so you know it to them and as you know, big WWE logo on the corner or a, a W logo or what have you. I mean, Hogan, I mean, in many, in many ways, I think.
01:15:24
Speaker
Not necessarily 100% starts that in the WWF, but he's a major, major factor in, I think wrestling merch becoming a big deal. Oh yeah. With the Hulkamania era stuff. So it makes sense that he'd be doing that kind of thing. Even at this point, my goodness, that crowd reaction.
01:15:43
Speaker
This is like nothing else on the show. No, the crowd has been loud for some of the earlier matches, certainly, and we'll be pretty loud for Vern Ganya when he comes out later. Yeah. But Hogan gets this tremendous reaction that is sustained for this entire match. Oh, yeah, it's it's amazing. Gene introduces the officials, including Stanley Blackburn, AWA president who commissioned Lord James Bleers to referee the match.
01:16:12
Speaker
while introducing Hienen, Jean pauses after saying Bobby, allowing the crowd to fill in Weasel while Hienen shouts at him to say the brain. Jean finally takes the middle road and just finishes Hienen. Very nice timing on that pause by Jean there.
01:16:31
Speaker
Hogan gets his entrance music again and another massive crowd reaction as Gene introduces him and of course tears his shirt apart. It doesn't go as smoothly as it will later. He's still clearly developing the method and doesn't have the traditional slices in the shirt yet. Yeah. Massive Hulk chant as the wrestlers face off. Yeah. Bockwinkle immediately flees. Twice. Mm-hmm. Tron Guard in a bit of absolute brilliance.
01:17:00
Speaker
blames the show's increased ticket prices on Bachwinkle demanding an exorbitant fee to fight Hogan again. Oh yeah, I love it. Oh, that was, that was amazing. Bachwinkle gingerly locks up and Hogan absolutely demolishes him with raw power, repeatedly knocking him flying until he retreats outside again for comfort from Hienan. Bachwinkle gradually wears Hogan down and stuns him for a few one and two counts, but Hogan's kickouts send him flying.
01:17:29
Speaker
Hogan gets a boot up on a charge to turn things around and get several two counts, including off a huge leaping elbow drop and a power slam, as the fans chant rabidly for him. Bachwinkle dodges a leg drop and does a tremendous job looking unsteady but landing big swinging punches. He even misses the first entirely due to just being that dazed. Nice touch.
01:17:53
Speaker
Hogan lands on top during a slam for two. It's unusual to see him on that side of that spot. That's true, yeah. Another two off an elbow drop, and the crowd really thought Hogan had him there. Mm-hmm. Bockwinkle dodges a corner charge and grabs a sleeper hold, and Hogan throws him onto Bleers. Yeah. Again, and Hogan rams him into the corner where Bleers had just started leaning to recover.
01:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny how much they build up that spot too, because Blair's knows he's got a way there in the corner and be hit, but they really sort of milk the anticipation of it. It feels like you can tell where it's going, but yeah, it takes like a good minute. I'd say of sort of positioning and aiming and then running backwards in the corner with blears down. Bachwinkle grabs the hold again, but Hogan stumbles to the ropes and Bachwinkle pitches over them to the outside.
01:18:42
Speaker
Hogan revives blears, then suplexes Bachwinkle back in and hits the leg drop for the three count and the win. Absolutely gigantic cheer from the crowd for that. Oh yeah. Heenan goes nuts outside and angrily climbs in, shouting at everybody. Yeah. Hogan appears to be in tears, pointing out at the fans as he celebrates with the belt. By the way, the AWA title looks great. It does. Nice design.
01:19:11
Speaker
However, as he celebrates, we see Blackburn on the apron, consulting with Bleers, and later, Heenan arguing with Bleers as well. Jean calls the crowd's attention and announces that Blackburn informed them that Hogan threw Bachwinkle over the top rope. Hogan immediately stops dead still. Yeah, mid-celebration, and glares towards Jean. Just amazing reaction there.
01:19:42
Speaker
Gene says Hogan is disqualified and Bachwinkle is still champ. Cue the crowd hurling trash into the ring. Yeah, poor Gene. He didn't do anything. Gene's always there for this crap. I know, right? Yeah. Hogan looks deeply upset and complains to anyone who will listen that he pinned Bachwinkle one, two, three.
01:20:05
Speaker
Gene and company leave the ring as quick as they can, but Hennen, Bockwinkle, and Bleers are slow, so Hogan beats up Hennen and Bockwinkle with the belt. Bleers takes the belt, but Hogan takes it back, throws it down mid-ring, and challenges a retreating Bockwinkle and Hennen to come and take it. Multiple referees get to the apron, but Hogan picks the belt back up and leaves with it. As Trongard notes, the Bockwinkle said, this was Hogan's last chance. Thoughts on this one?
01:20:34
Speaker
It's a good match. Like I said, it's got amazing energy purely from the crowd. Crowd is super into Hogan. They definitely don't like Bakwinkle, if nothing else for the fact that he represents.
01:20:46
Speaker
someone in the way of Hogan. Yeah. Obviously this is even pre major internet access, obviously internet existed, but not the same way it does now. So I don't think we have what they generally call smart fans who like, Oh, I heard about, you know, the newsletter said that Fern didn't want to get the title of Hogan. So I don't know if people were in the know on that, but same time.
01:21:10
Speaker
They've had 12 matches in various arenas or on TV where he's given the title and is taken away or he wins when they say it's a qualification. So. Bachwinkle beyond being just a heel represents the fact that their hero is not getting the title. Yeah. Over and over and over. Yeah. Mm hmm.
01:21:31
Speaker
I will say in the match itself, I was interesting because I was expecting a lot more of a technical match as far as Bakugo was concerned. Like I was expecting it'd be more like a flare match in a lot of ways. He gets in advantage, like, you know, he dodges the move, so he works the leg or works the arm, but his style here, I don't know if it's just custom work with Hogan or deciding to work a different way, but.
01:21:55
Speaker
It's a lot more of him striking low on Hogan, like, you know, him in the stomach or hitting him in the legs. More about that than like getting a hold other than obviously the super spot.
01:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, that is true. I will say it's kind of his comes off as tactical striking. Sure. Oh, yeah, for sure. It doesn't feel like he's just swinging. He is going for weak points. He's striking in just the right way to stun Hogan and stuff. So but yeah, yeah, I agree. I thought he would wrestle more like flair. Yeah, he is much more matching Hogan in the like brawling power style for this match anyway.
01:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. That said, Baekwung was often compared to Flair. And if you see him at this show, especially, I could see why. Yeah. Yeah. The look is, is very Flair. And even the match style self necessarily isn't the same. Like, you know, it doesn't fill up the figure four. I can definitely see, I could serve general air and presence as a real Flair thing. Yes.
01:22:49
Speaker
It's interesting looking back to think that they did this match so many times, that big Bakumagul and Hogan. And then this mass anticipation builds over the eighties to what's Hogan Flair going to be like. And obviously if you were in a certain audience, you have seen at least a version of how that could go quite a few times. That's fair.
01:23:09
Speaker
The ending, of course, is pretty blatant bait-and-switch. Yeah. Even if I didn't know the whole thing about how they refused to get the title, second, they go to our door, they're like, oh, here we go. And it's like, yep, there it is.
01:23:21
Speaker
And that spot is well done. Yeah, it definitely looks like an accident in the in the match. And that's a hard thing to do, like make something that's not an accident look like an accident. Totally looks like Hogan stumbles towards the ropes, kind of pitches forward because he hits them. Yeah. And that causes Bockwinkle to fall off rather than Hogan even throwing him off to try to escape.
Controversial Decision and Fan Reactions
01:23:41
Speaker
It's almost, I'm most surprised they didn't find a way to have heat involved. Like, you know, he goes towards the rope that he didn't like pulls Bachman go over. Yeah. Maybe that would create an air where they could might, could maybe argue that it's not a throw at that point. Right. Yeah. They needed it to be something where they could be blaming Hogan, even if it was unjust. Yeah. Hogan's reaction to the announcement that you said is really impressive. Mm-hmm.
01:24:05
Speaker
I say it was all the kinds of the world. I've seen Hogan act and not the greatest actor. So if he knows the finish and knows his other going with, you wouldn't necessarily tell. He's, he definitely feel, you feel this, this emotional change in him when it's announced. He's like, Oh, he does an amazing job with that. And, and the follow-up in general, as we'll, we'll get to in a bit, I think he's just Hogan's on, on this show for everything.
01:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, by all accounts, this is all pre-planned, you know, the boy with the finishing story. It's not a screwed up situation, but the fans, if they're just watching him might feel that legit nature of it, might think it's legit. Like, you know, Hogan been screwed in this match.
01:24:49
Speaker
Hope he gets a lot of crap, and rightfully so, about making matches that he doesn't win all about him. Well, we haven't covered it yet, but there's the famous WWE World War III incident. Right, yeah, yeah, that one. And he makes a big ol' fuss. You have another match that he's made from Rumbles, for instance, he makes all about him.
01:25:09
Speaker
Even when he loses to Ultimate Warrior WrestleMania 6, he makes it all about how, how does, how does Hogan feel about losing the title of Warrior and about he's there to give him the title and like put it around him. So he has this rotation to get justly earned by making everything about himself. That said, it definitely works here because the crowd is super invested. It feels less like an ego trip and more like what the crowd really wants.
01:25:37
Speaker
On this show, I think it's, it's the legit reaction of the match. It's not him doing something himself necessarily to make the camera pay attention to him. It's, this is the way this is going to go. Exactly. Yeah. It's actually earned in this, in this context and this one sentence. Yeah, absolutely. Give him credit for the one like I can make an easy excuse for it. I suppose in the other times we'll cover that we cannot. This was definitely a slower paced match.
01:26:05
Speaker
There's massive pauses after each move and quite a lot of retreats outside on Bockwinkle's part. But it was not a boring match. No. Part of that I'm sure is just the interest I felt in seeing this really early Hogan performance and seeing his style in this developing stage. But it's also just the fact that the two made every single move count. Yeah. There aren't many different moves to this match.
01:26:28
Speaker
but every single one feels big and powerful and is delivered with a huge wind-up, a big swing, or a tremendous slam. Yeah. They made the moves feel epic. Mm-hmm. Particular praise for Hogan's huge elbow drops and Bockwinkle's big swinging stumbling punches that looked off-balance and powerful at the same time. Yeah. Hogan's falling power set looked really nice as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was great.
01:26:51
Speaker
It helps, of course, that the crowd was so incredibly into this, hanging on Hogan's every movement and giving the biggest reactions we have heard on the show by far. This match feels like it's taking place in a different era from the rest of the show. Yeah. There's been some crowd interaction and response earlier, but in this match, that is the focus.
AWA's Business Decisions and Outcomes
01:27:11
Speaker
It amazes me after hearing this crowd reaction that the AWA had the guts to overturn the finish. Yeah. It's a pretty weak justification, too. It's hard to argue that what Hogan did is much more intentional than what Tolos did earlier. It legitimately offends the fans here, and of course the AWA's repeated refusal to actually make Hogan champion will not play well historically at all. No. But beyond that, it is just a deflating finish to an otherwise really enjoyable watch.
01:27:37
Speaker
Yeah, the closest comparison I could say as how the finish feels would probably be, I want to say it's Starrcade 84, the first Dusty Roach Flare one when matches called for exit splitting by the boxer ref. Yeah. Yeah. Just as he's like getting offense in on Flare, then it's just like, Oh, nope too much. Yeah.
01:28:00
Speaker
This is, as far as I could tell, Hogan's final AWE world title match. He would hang around the company until November when he'd famously signed with WWF. He'd suddenly form a random friendship with Bob Backlund. And of course, when the title of the Iron Sheik who just won it off of Bob Backlund at Madison Square Garden, December 83.
01:28:20
Speaker
For better or worse, this is the high point business wise for him in the ADA way. This is his last big show of them and he makes lots and lots of money for somebody else. Yes. So yeah, there's various talk that's been about obviously, why didn't they give the title? The idea that's often stated and never really been disputed.
01:28:39
Speaker
is that they didn't think Hogan was legit enough of a wrestler because, you know, he wasn't an Olympic wrestler. He wasn't like, you know, he wasn't an NCAA wrestler like Veron was and like Brad Ryan. Again, to go back to the beginning of the show was the other story, of course, that went around, I believe from the WV's documentary about the ADA from like chosen six, I think.
01:29:02
Speaker
was supposedly a verdant company wanted to deal where they might give Hogan the title eventually, but they wanted a big cut of merch sales. They want to like something slanted drastically in favor of the AWA. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard as, as low as 60% and as high as 80% of merch sales. If this is true, it feels like, yeah, we want you around to sell a shirt for us, but we're getting that money. You know, we're not, you're not getting that cut.
01:29:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Which in a lot of ways, well, it doesn't validate it. It does kind of explain Hogan's mindset towards contracts and things you see later. Cause we know if you talked about with Bashbeat 2000, his last contract is public record cause it was part of the lawsuit.
01:29:44
Speaker
So you could find it online. You can see how much he was making per show. He had a thing where he was making like a minimum, a minimum of like $50,000, I think per nitro appearance. He had a thing where they had to pay him like percent of the gate, but also it was a built in minimum. They had to pay him. He had a deal in place where he would make, I think it was like $5,000. If he went out in public wearing it to be able to merchandising and was photographed wearing it.
01:30:12
Speaker
You go to events wearing it, so I'd wear their shirt too, 5K. Looking at what happened here, or at least is alleged to have happened here between the repeated backing away from giving him the title and then the arguments over merchandise and salary and that kind of stuff that happened in the AWA does explain, I think, a lot of late WCW Hogan, especially. Yeah, for sure.
01:30:40
Speaker
Like, you know, I'm not sure how much evidence there is backing up the merch stuff. It does from other things that were stated about the A.W.A. and its relationship with other companies and things like that. It does sound like something that they would have tried to pull. Yeah. You know, with the super clash, the collapse, the alliance after that, because they're not paying anybody and that kind of thing. It's it's not out of character for the A.W.A. Unfortunately, I think that's pretty believable.
01:31:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. I'll find a little story I know you might find interesting as well. So again, going through cage match to refine, you know, get the number of Hogan matches here, I found, so it's after this, but he still worked with them and also working all Japan and new Japan during this time period as well. He would wrestle two matches for NWA related territories, which wasn't an NWA twice. He would actually challenge Harley race for the NWA world title.
01:31:35
Speaker
Oh, cool. So in an alternate universe somewhere, there's a universe where 1983 Star Kate is Hulk Hogan versus Rick Flair. I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing thing. Cause it, in our, obviously in our, our universe, our time, what have you, you had to wait 11 years from this show to as covered already bash the beach 1994 for the first official Hogan flair match. But yeah, in a weird world that could have happened at the beginning of our show, we could have been covered in that instead.
01:32:05
Speaker
My goodness, that would be interesting. Yeah. And a Hogan versus Harley race match sounds very interesting. I'd be up for seeing that if we ever found footage of it. I imagine it might be one of those ones that never got filmed, but. I found two instances of it happening, but I don't know. Depending where they were at in the circumstance, they may not be filmed. Yeah. Well, look, we can look for that stuff, I'm sure.
01:32:28
Speaker
It's also a period where he would wrestle both with and against Antonio Inoki. You know, there's that weird period around this time where they created the, what arguably becomes the IWGP or the New Japan belt, how you want to call it, a world title, but it's only defended at this one show every year. So it's an annual title. Like you show up, have this big tournament. So he definitely did win the first one of those, but he never came back for any other matches.
01:32:58
Speaker
You know, there's no defenses throughout the year for it. And he wasn't at the 84 show, I believe, because he's in WF at this point. So he claims, if you ask him and people have that he's one time IDP champion, but it's a little, little gray with that because it's not the same title on this whole weird circumstance. Yeah. One of those debatable, technically correct, but also misleading. Yeah. Which, which wrestling is so good at. Wrestling is full of that stuff. Yeah.
01:33:29
Speaker
And this, in a way by backup, at least one part of the theory about why they would give the title Hogan. Black and would drop the title in February of 1984. So about seven, eight months after this show to a man named Jumbo Saruta was a Japanese wrestler. Yeah.
01:33:47
Speaker
He was also a legit Olympian, like other people on the show. Oh, okay. He competed the 1972 Munich games, Olympic games, unfortunately more famous for an incident at them than the games themselves, but that's neither here nor there. Notably, Ricky Chosu, who was a big name in due Japan, also competed for his country that same year, for South Korea, if you didn't know, as did Ken Patera, who also competed that same Olympic game.
01:34:12
Speaker
And tying to Hogan, the Iron Sheik was a wrestling coach for the US team, not the Iranian team, where they are at the same games. Interesting. There's a lot of wrestling connections at this one, one Olympic game in 1972. Yeah. That is cool. Gene is with Hogan at ringside. Perhaps the most disappointed man. No way, me and Gene. This is your belt. I am the champion. This is your belt.
01:34:42
Speaker
All right, the Hulk has said, this is your belt. That is the proclamation of Hulk Hogan. He says you, the fans here tonight, this is your belt. Thank you. Hogan retreats into the crowd with the belt.
01:35:03
Speaker
Extremely short promo there, especially coming from Hulk Hogan of all people. It's really weird to not hear him go on for at least a few minutes and also to keep things pretty grounded and not talk about cracking the planet or riding tiger sharks or such. Yeah. Doggy paddling through a red tide, I believe the one show. Yes. Him and him and macho. But still, you can tell the connection that he's got with the crowd. Yeah. And he uses that expertly in the few moments that he gets. And honestly, a short, annoyed statement works with what just happened. Absolutely. Yeah.
01:35:33
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely, it's a different kind of hooker problem, but it definitely works in this context. Which one of the things, you know, at this point, there's no blurring of the lines with pro wrestling. You know, kayfabe is fully well and alive. None of the incidents that have broken kayfabe have happened and no shooting or using that kind of thing. But at the same time, you can look at this and go.
01:35:53
Speaker
Was this Hogan doing negotiations? Like even still, like if he's, he's siding, I'm not, he hadn't decided he was leaving the movie just yet. He's like, maybe one little more push here. And they'll change their mind, book a rematch, you know, let's say the next show and then give me the title. And then they will see where things go. At the very least though, when character absolutely makes sense for him to do this promo.
01:36:13
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, I can see certainly like if you're having the situation that he finds himself in here where you're doing well for your company, clearly attracting a crowd and they just are not giving you the focal position you think you should get and honestly, probably you should get in this case. Yeah. Then I can certainly see being like, okay, well, I'm going to just push harder. Maybe they'll turn around. Yeah.
01:36:41
Speaker
We don't do this, honestly, that often outside of it, though we did it fairly often, I guess, in the Batch the Beach series. Yeah. But to praise Hogan, that is actually the thing that I would want you to do. Yeah. Don't get downtrodden by the situation. Just, you know, be the bigger man in the situation, I think, in this case, where he's like, you know, he didn't sabotage the show or something like that. He did his job and still connected with the crowd. And I'm sure was hoping that things would turn around. But yeah, whether they did or not, I think he does a good job here. Mm hmm. Absolutely.
01:37:13
Speaker
All right. Our final match, because somehow that was not the main event. Yeah. Is the Sheik's Sheik Adnan Al Casey and Jerry Blackwell versus Vern Ganya and Mad Dog Vishan. The referee for this one is Larry Lisowski. After how I did last time, I was bringing him back.
01:37:37
Speaker
Wrestling is full of circumstances where you say, hey, you, you're Russian now. Or hey, you, you're French. Hey, you, you're Italian now. However, that said, Cheek Adnan O'Casey is actually a recce.
01:37:51
Speaker
The guy was legit Raki. In fact, he attended high school with, no joke, Saddam Hussein. Amazing. I don't know how close they were personally, you know, the people I went to high school with that I've never talked to in 20 years, but still that's kind of a big name to be associated with, obviously. Guy was, that's why I was running your country and would run it for the next 20 years. He would kind of come and go from Iraq.
01:38:16
Speaker
In the sixties, he came over to start wrestling and they said, Hey you, you're Native American. Yeah. I don't know. Casey wrestled as a Native American in the Minnesota area and like late fifties, early sixties. My goodness. It seems like his thing was he was really trying to bring pro wrestling as a thing in his home country, which is a noble thing in a lot of ways. And you see wrestlers do that.
01:38:44
Speaker
However, it seems like, and bear in mind, we're talking about Simon Hussein here, both a generally terrible person, but also demonized in so many ways. So his last visit there, trying to bring pro wrestling there was around 1981. And he said he felt like he was being threatened. He was getting really popular there as this hometown wrestling hero. Maybe he said, I'm Hussein didn't like it.
01:39:07
Speaker
And I mean, cult of personality type of dictators do not like anyone else getting attention. Yeah. So I think that, you know, feels pretty legit. Also noting on the face side, so we have Vern Gane and Bad Dog Vashaun. They are pretty notable as enemies for a long period of time. They would trade the AWA title between each other in the 1960s and later actually become tag team champions. They would tag team through the 1970s.
01:39:35
Speaker
So there's a whole sort of villain to be grudging friends to friends arc with them over 20 plus, you know, your period wrestling. I think honestly, they were tag champions native away in the mid seventies. Their title loss came when they were both to show up to an event and defend the titles against the East West connection, that being Jessa Ventura and Adrian Adonis and Vern Garnett didn't show up.
01:40:02
Speaker
The story Ventura tells is that he was on a European vacation and didn't feel like cutting the vacation early to fly back to Minnesota and wrestle. So they just gave the titles to them. Again, it's Ventura who knows, but it's a great story anyways. Yeah. Yeah. I open champion. I just feel like coming back to vacation to fight anybody. So we're good.
01:40:24
Speaker
And the general story here is, so you can probably imagine this is 1983. It's basically, hey, these UO foreigners are here and they don't like our customs and they've turned one of our own, this being Jerry Blackwell. And actually Camp Otero as well, this is not shown on the show to their side and against our country. So it's pretty standard 80s jingoism in wrestling.
01:40:45
Speaker
And there's also, as I understand it, the Sheikhs will soon be challenging for the tag titles. And so Vern is actually laid out a mission to stop them from being a threat to his son. That's true. Yes. It's more heel-ish actually. Like I'm taking this match explicitly to injure the opponents of someone that I am connected to, but you know, I guess maybe look at a little bit more favorably since it's his son. I don't know.
01:41:07
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, then USA USA. Yeah. Yeah. And it's ferned and he's pretty popular with the AWA crowd still. So.
01:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, he was AWA champion up through 1980 where he decided to retire and in a truly faced moment, give the title to his longtime enemy, which is Nick Bockwinkle. So in a lot of ways, he's responsible both behind the scenes and in kayfabe with Nick Bockwinkle being here as champion that the fans also hate. Probably don't discuss that with fans at the time. Cause you know, yeah, might, might be the narrative a little bit. Like, yeah, I don't want to wrestle anymore. So I'll make this guy champion.
01:41:47
Speaker
And of all people he fixed, yeah, he fixed it at Bachwinkle. That just puts me in a Bachwinkle funk. Yup. It's the worst kind. Blackwell is very large. Yeah. He and Al Casey wear casts on One Arm Beach. Mad Dog Vachon and Vergania get entrance music that sounds like what you'd use in, say, a 1970s police show for a montage of the cops searching the city in a semi-serious, semi-comedic way.
01:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, I can hear that. Yeah. It has lyrics, but sadly it cuts off after I just want to. I just want to what? I have to know. They do get a pretty good crowd reaction. So at least the previous events have not killed the show entirely. Yeah. And then we said there's some cutting involved, so we don't know how much time has happened between them as well. I'm sure they left themselves a few minute gap at least before they came out. Yeah, probably. Also does help having the heels come out first so they can sort of take that residual heat. Yes.
01:42:48
Speaker
Vashon bounces around like mad, clearly excited. The ring is his bouncy castle. Trongard notes that we won't get intros, as if time was taken for that, they would never be completed. I think he means that these guys' careers and honors are so extensive that there's not time to list them, not that the act of attempting to introduce these men would somehow bring about the apocalypse. I think the first one, not the second one, yeah. Seems more likely, but you never know. True, yeah.
01:43:18
Speaker
As the Sheik's stay outside, Jean says something about an ultimatum from Stanley Blackburn, and says that the match is underway. The ref starts counting, the Sheik's out, so they finally get in so Jean can do some brief intros. Vern gets some good cheers. Blackwell and Ganya start, and Ganya gradually wears the big man down with strikes and throws as Vachon helps him hold off Al Casey and joins in on Blackwell occasionally.
01:43:41
Speaker
Lord James Bleers joins Trongard for a bit to defend the ruling in the Hogan match and note his disappointment with having to overturn Hogan's win. They have actually a good discussion, but what weird timing. Yeah. Vashon in and he oddly bases his offense around tugging on Blackwell and Al Casey's beards and noses in between biting them. Well, you know, dogs love pulling out beards. That is fair enough, I guess. Sure.
01:44:08
Speaker
Pulling on things anyway, like they love tug-of-war toys and stuff, so. This is why I like cats better, they don't pull on beards. I'm sorry, go ahead. We used to be friends, Al. Ganya joins him from outside occasionally. Al Casey hits Vashon with his cast to knock him through the ropes, and Vashon repeatedly throws weapons to Al Casey and shockingly then gets hit with them.
01:44:34
Speaker
Oh, Casey is good at catching though. He is. He's very good. Yeah. Yeah. He like, he throws like the piece of like the rig bell into the ring. He catches like, like a frisbee in this. Oh, thanks. Wham. Bashan is bleeding and I have no idea what his plan was because it was patently obvious what was going to happen there. Ganya finally gets fed up. It goes to town with a chair himself. Somehow none of this is a DQ. No.
01:45:00
Speaker
Elkaeci and Blackwell overpower Vashon and Gania, earning two on each with a Blackwell power slam, but Gania dodges a Blackwell splash and slaps on a sleeper hold. Vashon utterly fails to stop Elkaeci from hitting Gania, but Gania just no-sells and keeps the hold on while Vashon beats Elkaeci up and forces him to hit Blackwell with his cast.
01:45:21
Speaker
Gonya tears the cast off and lays into Alkaeci with it, as Trongard notes that Gonya's real goal here is to prevent Blackwell and Alkaeci from being a threat to his son and Jim Bronzel. Vashon goes after Blackwell with a chair outside, and Gonya gets two with a slam. Vashon returns and holds Alkaeci's arm for a Gonya second rope knee strike for the three count and the win.
01:45:43
Speaker
Vashon throws out Casey through the ropes and they send a charging Blackwell over the ropes after a couple tries. Yeah. Trongard notes that if that had happened during the match, they would have been disqualified. So this was not a no disqualification match. So why wasn't anyone DQ'd for the massive amount of weapon shots, ignoring tag rules and double teams? Is this WCW in 2000? Thoughts on this one?
01:46:08
Speaker
It's a pretty decent match. Obviously I've been grading a bit on a curve. Fern Gani was not a spry young man at this point, having wrestled since the fifties retiring three years earlier and coming back for the show. He's not going to win technical awards for what he does. It definitely does a lot more striking. There's a weird bit where I don't think it's a miscue thing. Cause I don't think it was feasible, but it's like there's a bit where Blackwell runs off the ropes and he goes shoulder down. Like he's going to backdrop him. Yes.
01:46:38
Speaker
Then he has like a moment of realization, like, Oh God, this guy weighs twice when I weigh. And then just does like a shoulder strike to the stomach as well. I spotted that too. He starts like it's for a back body drop and then he does kind of an off angle shoulder block. What's interesting that might just be how Verne does those because he actually shoulder blocks Al Casey, I think later in the match too. Yeah. And he does almost that exact same start to it. Interesting. So I think that actually just may be how he does shoulder blocks. Interesting. Yeah. Very obvious. Yeah.
01:47:06
Speaker
I would shudder to think if he was trying to backdrop him, how that would have ended. Yes. It would be like the comical spot when the smaller but strong guy like John Cena, that guy tries to body slam like, let's say, a big show like a viscera and they fall flat, except with the back by a drop, he'd be landing on your back while your head is down. That could not end well. Significantly less funny and more lethal. Yeah, I would not have ended well.
01:47:32
Speaker
As you said, the rules don't make a lot of sense. Even if you accept the heal thing that, oh, we have these casts on our arm because we're definitely for real, our arms are broken.
01:47:42
Speaker
But yeah, we're wrestling and we're hitting you with them. He was going to wear that a lot. Obviously, Bob Ordon got with that for like 15 years, I think. Crazy amount of time where he has our work in one show and just kept it even up through when he came back to help his son fight their taker in like 2005, 2006. Wow. He might've taken off at some point, but he definitely had a cast on again, at least one appearance. I don't know how long his poor arm was messed up.
01:48:08
Speaker
Okay. So even accepting that as, Oh, that's not too cute. Cause they're, you know, they're wearing them. I just said, uh, Vachon's offense in, or I guess off, it's against him really falling weapons. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. What funny timing wise, and this might date the recording a little bit, but it's fine is so we want this show. And then I don't know, a week or so later, Russomania happened.
01:48:33
Speaker
And the Night One Made event was a tag match with Roman Reigns and The Rock against Cody Rhodes and Seth Rollins. And they're really into the story because The Rock is legit a board member of TKO. He's got millions in stock and everything. So at one point, him and Cody are fighting outside and the ref starts to count. And he, in very modern rock fashion, yells at the ref while also swearing and basically tells him, if you keep counting, you're fired. And then the ref has to go, okay, well, what do you want now? Because, you know, you're literally my boss.
01:49:03
Speaker
So Vern doesn't yell like that, but maybe that's implied. Yeah. Though I don't know whether it was ever like a storyline thing that Vern had company influence. No, it wasn't like a story thing in the sense that he like threatened the ref. I mean, but it's just, if you're roughing a match with Vern and they start using weapons, you know, and you know, the finish is not other team via the qualification victory. You just kind of don't count it. I don't know.
01:49:28
Speaker
I don't know what you mean, but I don't know if we necessarily needed to have a Vern match here. He's not terrible in the ring, but it's like watching later stage, Roddy Piper, who actually, by the way, is younger, I believe at that point. I'm referring to like in late WCW. He's still younger than Vern is. Think of the math, Vern's like in his late fifties when this show happens, I believe. He can still move around a bit, but all the talk of, oh, Vern's in great shape for this match. I'm like, sure, sure. Let's go with that.
01:49:57
Speaker
And to be fair, as they say, those are the city miles because, you know, being a pro player briefly to being a pro wrestler, it's a lot of wear and tear your body and don't take that away from him. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if other than the nostalgia of him being there and maybe to help cover the fact that you're never going to pick up the crowd with Hogan, how much you need this match necessarily, but
01:50:20
Speaker
Same time, you know, I'll cover a match that they don't necessarily think are great. If the crowd didn't do it, that does give them somewhat of a pass or at least grating on a curve. Let's put that way. Yeah. Yeah. For the part, Blackwell's fine. It's hard for the face to move them around a bit. I did laugh a little bit, unintentionally when.
01:50:42
Speaker
It's funny. So there's a part in Hogan's match with Bachwin. Cool. He does a brief little double stomp that I associate with Finley doing. Right. Yes. So it looked weird, but also looks very impactful with Hogan. Who's like, you know, three times a muscle hopping on Bachman stomach. So then like 10 minutes later, watching Vishon hop on Blackwell's big belly, like it's a bouncy castle. The ring is a little less substantial.
01:51:06
Speaker
Let's be honest, that was less about dealing damage to Blackball and more about just having fun, I think, for Vachon. Yeah. He clearly likes bouncing around. Yeah, so a guy like that, they really can't do all with them other than self-warm and... I don't know, we see quite a bit of El Casey, but I don't get a feel, let's say, for his style, because again, this is much more of a fight. Yeah. I will say all complaints aside,
01:51:31
Speaker
They have a decent sort of old school mentality here. They have the pretty simple story that the plucky, not young faces fighting against the teeny heels. They make a point of the cast being real dangerous weapons. So once they can take the cast off and then attack the injured arm, that plays in the finish real well, at least the finish.
01:51:53
Speaker
I'm still a little befuddled by the idea that you hit the guy's arm, broke it or not. And then he just, you just pin him off of that. It feels a little weird. Yeah. I feel like that happened on an early, that might've been a Stark 883 finish actually. Yeah. We mentioned it before. I didn't know what show it was from, but yeah, I could see you get the cast off and do that. And then he like quickly got an arm hold. He taps out because he don't want to hurt him. Yes. It just be weird. The jumping strike to the arm is a knockout blow, but we definitely hurt him for the legit, but still. So weird finish overall, but crowd tap you.
01:52:24
Speaker
This was a deeply strange tag match, though it was entertaining to watch. Why is no one DQ'd? Why does Vachon keep throwing weapons to his opponents? Why do the faces break the rules more often than the heels? Why do the faces have the story about trying to intentionally injure the other team? This is all kinds of backwards. I joked about WCW 2000, but yeah, this is WCW 2000.
01:52:51
Speaker
For all that though, Vern and Vashon come off as likeable and are clearly in the crowd's good graces and seem to be having a good time out there, which helps. It is a little strange to see Vern in this match considering his poor reaction to a hardcore match on one of the Slamburys. That's fair, yeah. But in fairness, this is still less chaotic than that and does stay mostly in the ring.
01:53:12
Speaker
All told, this was a bizarre, if fun, final match, but it does seem to have helped bring the crowd back after the reaction to the Hogan overturn. And while the lack of a DQ is confusing many times over in this one, I do understand why they wouldn't end this on a DQ, given what just happened. Yeah. It's odd, but entertaining all the same.
01:53:34
Speaker
Well, bad news, the plan did not work. That being Vern and, uh, Vichon's plan because they do in 26, a debris house show, the team of Jerry Blackwell and Ken Patera would win the eight away tag team titles. Well, I guess it did technically work a little bit because how Casey wasn't on the team. Fair enough. Although that said, if you got him kicked off the match and then Patera wins the match, then that definitely backfires. That that's fair. Yeah. Yeah.
01:54:03
Speaker
If Greg could have beaten El Casey, but couldn't beat Patera, then it was a bad deal. He's like backstage. Yeah. You sure him a little bit. Like weaken the arm up. Don't actually break the arm. Yeah. You break the arm. You can't wrestle. Oh, darn it. It's too far. I know you love throwing questions at me, especially in our wrap up shows. A brief little bit. I could, I can play with this for you. So I will tell you that Vergane had more matches after this.
01:54:31
Speaker
And that his last match takes place in 1986. Okay. How many more matches did Vern Gandhi have, do you think? After this match, how many more matches until 1986? Hmm. 25. Wow. You'd guess way higher than I was expecting. Oh, okay. I mean, it's Vern. He seemed unable to stay away, so. Oh, okay. The correct answer is seven. He has seven more matches. Okay. That's still pretty high. Mm-hmm.
01:54:58
Speaker
I get thrown a bonus thing for you here. So out of those seven matches, how many do you think involved cheek and non-L. Casey? Ooh. So out of seven. Okay. Say four. Very close. Five. Okay. Five out of seven last matches after this involved Casey. They were six man's or two on two tag matches. All right. Yeah. In fact, I'll give this one the freebie out of the last 10 matches of counting this match. Vern wrestled L. Casey and eight of his last 10 matches ever.
01:55:28
Speaker
All right. Clearly liked working together. Yep. Both guys with lots of experience out there. They've worked, they've been wrestling on and off with each other for quite a long period of time. And of course the gimmick is easy to work with. You're the homegrown Minnesota football player turned wrestler and he's the evil foreigner. So yeah. Okay. And Vern Gagne of course would later go on to have an adorable sleepy dog. Yes.
01:55:55
Speaker
Gene joins Gonya and Vashon in the ring. One fan still chucks another drink into the ring. It doesn't seem to be in response to this really, so maybe it's just lingering anger from Hogan. Yeah. The winners of tonight's Big Main event, the official time 1328. Obviously, Vern Gonya tremendously concerned about his tag team partner's condition.
01:56:19
Speaker
Mad Dog Vashon, back out of retirement tonight, Vern Gange, how did it feel? Great! How about that? How about that, ladies and gentlemen? Your thoughts, Mad Dog? It goes, it goes to prove you that Vern Gange and the Mad Dog is still man's best friend.
01:56:50
Speaker
It's Dogby Dog. Burn. There's only one mad dog, Vashon, in the whole wide world. Thank God. All right. And there is only one Burn, Ganya. Ladies and gentlemen from All Star Wrestling, the largest indoor wrestling spectacular in North America. We'll see you in Bloomington.
01:57:19
Speaker
Another very short promo segment here. If Vern had not come back for that comment about Vachon, he'd actually literally have spoken only one word. Great. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Still, both just had fun with this. And Vern, thank God about there being only one mad dog was a winner. Yeah, that's fair. They both come off as extremely likable guys again. I appreciate that.
01:57:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's a nice bit of levity after whatever that match was and whatever decision they made with Hogan to hopefully make the least of you and crowd at home happy. Every time we've seen for an on the show, even that little team challenge series intro that he did, I think you can see why.
01:57:56
Speaker
He was a popular figure. Yeah. And was able to build a company around himself because the guy, well, not a Hogan, raw charisma type of person, I think just has a natural likability and easygoing style in all of the interviews that we see with him that it makes sense that people were like, oh, yeah, I'll root for this guy. I would say, yeah, he's not a Hogan, but he's much more of a Bob Backlund type.
01:58:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think just easy to follow as a bureau character in a show. I agree with that, yeah. Varanganya and Mad Dog Vishan leave to music, and AWA Super Sunday is done. So overall thoughts on AWA Super Sunday.
01:58:41
Speaker
It's not as a super complex show. There's a handful of matches that feel very samey. That said, viewing this in 2024 or later, it's kind of fun looking back and seeing people that you get to see wrestle like Ventura, or just seeing people back again, or seeing younger versions of people like the early versions like Hogan and the like.
01:59:03
Speaker
There's really only one match that's not, I would say even that good, the Ed Boulder match. And it's not bad match. I mean, the worst match in this show is not the worst match on, I'd say the last two or three shows we watched. Yes. So again, grating on that curve, there's a certain air of the show because, you know, they build up the Hogan and then they just screw the whole thing up again. Well, they don't mess it up. They do it in purpose, but they make a bad choice. Let's put that way.
01:59:33
Speaker
But if you can get past that, it's still a very fun eighties wrestling show. It's got stuff you don't see all the time. Like the fact that these tag team wrestling is sadly very underrepresented in eighties through through 2000 wrestling. Sadly. Yes. Even though WF, they didn't have a women's championship until like 1998 again, after the other one, you know, the leaves and there's the belt and the trash. There's definitely an interesting show to look back on. I think if you're looking for a really great wrestling show, you don't quite get that here.
02:00:02
Speaker
There's a definitely enjoyable matches. I'd say both of the tag team matches, the regular and six man. And to a certain extent, the main event match as well are enjoyable.
02:00:14
Speaker
Old school fan definitely should check this out. But if you're, I'd say if you're a newer wrestling fan and you've never seen it and you're not necessarily in the mindset, maybe for looking at the wrestling and grading on the curb, I don't think it's going to sell you as some amazing show. And I'll be missing out and he's wrestling for so long by watching this instead. It's still enjoyable though. It's a good time capsule of a show, I'd say. Yeah, absolutely.
02:00:39
Speaker
I always enjoy our forays into the AWA and this one was no exception. Yeah.
02:00:45
Speaker
Like you, I'm not sure I would call this a great show, but it's definitely a really interesting watch. It's filled with classic stars and newer, well, still classic, but later classic than the first classic stars early in their career. It was neat to see Hulk Hogan, Jerry Lawler, and Ed Leslie in their pre-WWF days. And honestly, most of the matches were pretty quick and not very complex, though most were fine. There weren't really any major negative matches in terms of quality.
02:01:13
Speaker
It's an easy watch that moves quite quickly. In part, that's due to nothing much going on other than the matches. Yeah. We barely get any promo content, and what we do get is shorter than most Russo-era WCW promos, with the exception of Jerry Lawler's promo, which is delivered while giving match commentary, which was bizarre but kind of interesting at least. It was, yeah.
02:01:35
Speaker
Obviously, there are some things that are just a factor of the era that we're in, like the lack of huge video packages for matches building up feuds. But I definitely felt the lack of any major production elements on this show. It feels like a quick TV wrestling show rather than the big event of any kind. Yeah. Of course, we haven't even hit the first Starrcade yet, so that's not a huge surprise. Wrestling doesn't really know what a true supercard event is yet, and matches are clearly the focus, not storylines. Yeah.
02:02:05
Speaker
For most of the show, Rod Trongard was a one-man commentary team, which was a massive difference from what I'm used to. He did a perfectly fine job for the most part, but I definitely missed the interplay that a color commentator adds. Yeah. Trongard told the story of each match just fine, but alone he couldn't provide much beyond that. Mm-hmm. Production was pretty much not a thing. This was just a filmed wrestling event with no glitz, glamour, set design, pyro entrances. Heck, only three entrances even had music.
02:02:34
Speaker
Mm hmm. Again, just the era that we're in. It's fascinating to look at the show that way, actually, we're starting to see the transition between what pro wrestling was and what it will be in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, it's fair. Hogan's match in particular feels like it is taking place in a different era than the rest of the show, with far, far more crowd interaction and focus on character and personality than on the sports feel of the rest of the card. You can see the change of eras happening here.
02:03:04
Speaker
Yeah. But the AWA couldn't. Moments after holding back the man who will be a major focal point of the next era of pro wrestling, the AWA brought out the man who was a major focal point to the prior era of pro wrestling, Vern Ganya. I certainly don't begrudge Vern his return and the crowd clearly still likes him. And a return from retirement is one of the few things that I feel can be safely put after a world title. Yeah.
02:03:30
Speaker
And frankly, the AWA needed something that big to bring the crowd back, but still, it's almost a symbol of the AWA's attitude to change. You don't really need the new guy, right? Remember how you liked the previous one? Yeah. Change is happening, but the AWA does not see it. All told, this was a really neat show to watch, and I'm so glad that we did it.
02:03:53
Speaker
It's of pretty average to decently good quality as a show, but I think it's well worth a watch all the same for anyone interested in wrestling history, both for a look into a different era of wrestling and a glimpse at the coming shift that few other shows can so clearly provide. Match of the night and MVP. So Al, what was your match of the night?
02:04:15
Speaker
I think for me, for overall enjoyment and presentation, it comes down to either the women's tag team match or the six man match. Okay. There's a novelty factor, I suppose, to the women's tag match, as opposed to six man match, which keeps same magic pace and sort of twitches people out more. And definitely has that appeal of
02:04:39
Speaker
seeing people like Ventura and the company around. I think as a whole package though, I still have to lean towards the Judy Martin, the McIntyre versus Winnie Richter and Graybull match. All right. It's clearly a match they had put together and worked on over months, if not a year as stated, and getting all the spots where they needed to be and the timing and everything down.
02:05:04
Speaker
All right. Uh, for me, this was between the women's match and Hogan versus Bockwinkle. And I'm also actually going to give it to the women's match. Okay. I think that's just the highest quality of outright action on the whole show with a good mix of character and technical performance. And honestly, it just felt good to see the AWA do something good with a women's match for a change. Yeah.
02:05:28
Speaker
That and well, Hogan versus Bockwinkle was really big and epic. It's undercut by the awful decision to overturn the win, turning it from what would have been a likely historic achievement for the AWA to, well, one of the things that people point to when talking about is decline and demise. Yeah. It kind of can't escape that as a match. No, you can't, unfortunately. MVP?
02:05:51
Speaker
This is a hard one too. I mean, there's a lot of people that, you know, they don't do an amazing job, but they're nice in their own bits. Like Brad Reingans, Steve Riegel is a dark horse pick, I'd say. If he had any other to do, then just rest of the match. If he had a promo or anything else that could help push him, I'd say. Lawler for doing his match and being really good. And the sort of piece of commentary is nice as well. I did very much consider him, yeah.
02:06:15
Speaker
If I was going to pick someone from the women's match, it's hard to pick one particular. Obviously, Richter is really good. McIntyre was really like the core of that match, I would say. Not taken away from Judy Martin, of course. And obviously, everyone in the six-time match does a nice job, but because it's so many of them, it's more of a sample of what they could do, rather than what do you get if we had like a singles match? Like if we had a Ventura-Rick Martell match, then it could maybe do a Torbjorn Tell based on how we do there. But it's still nice to see them.
02:06:45
Speaker
I think I can't avoid the obvious for the person that stands out the most in the show, whether I like him or not for personal reasons or business reasons.
02:06:55
Speaker
Ultimately, the MVP of the show was still Hulk Hogan. Like he said, he feels like he he's trying to make the show in a different show. He's trying to pull them kicking and screaming into the mid 80s glitz and glamour of wrestling. Bring in the sort of casual fans. It's not I don't mean the negative terms, the people that don't watch the regular wrestling shows and might be injured if they got a chance. Yeah, yeah. Widening the fan base. Exactly. Yeah.
02:07:25
Speaker
He's really making use of the license, although not in this show, music, and really headed the curb on wrestler merchandise. Even if it is, you know, an iron-on black and white t-shirt. Yes. The fact that he's holding a second one to give to Gene, as if I might give it to a fan, you know, that really stands out on a show at midnight in 1983.
02:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, I have to give this to Hogan as well. Nobody, nobody on the show has near the crowd reaction that he has. Yeah, the crowd is there to see him win the title. Yeah, they are hungry for it. And Hogan uses every single moment of his performance to charge them up even more. You can see him dragging the Hulkamania era into being through his efforts.
02:08:12
Speaker
Yeah. Whether the AWA likes it or not, it is immediately evident why he would go on to be WWF's vocal star through the 1980s. No question. Yeah. He just has that extra something and he knows it and he uses it very well here. And that wraps up our review of AWA Super Sunday. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. A link will be available in the episode description.
02:08:40
Speaker
Follow us for episode announcements and other show details and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. You can subscribe to our show. Well, what was that word? A scribe? You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, YouTube Music, Audible, iHeartRadio, Spotify, TuneIn, or Pandora. And please, if you've enjoyed this one, give us a rating or review and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us.
02:09:11
Speaker
Many thanks to ProWrestlingHistory.com for attendance in closed-circuit figures tonight, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo. Next up, we start our next series. We've seen New Japan come to WCW at Starrcade 1995. Now it's time to see WCW go to New Japan at 1991's WCW-NJPW Super Show 1.
02:09:38
Speaker
I really enjoyed our previous looks at WCW and New Japan partnerships, whether full shows like Star Kid 1995 or one-off matches sprinkled here and there. So I'm really looking forward to this series and seeing some of our favorites again. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:10:13
Speaker
All right. He was born in 1926. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, sorry, English major trying to do math. So it's 57. Yeah. Yeah. 57. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.