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Episode 74: Halloween Havoc 1992
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The spooks - and Mad Max references - continue as we cover WCW Halloween Havoc 1992! WCW got a deal on a wheel so it's time to spin for real! Can Sting defeat Jake Roberts when he doesn't even know what match type he'll be competing in? Can Dustin Rhodes and Barry Windham overcome their differences to defeat Dr. Death Steve Williams and...Steve Williams? Can Rick Rude somehow win two title matches in a single night, or does he have a secret plan? Just how many faces will get booed against a Freebird this time? For all this, plus another wonderfully ridiculous WCW mini-movie...let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
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Transcript
Introduction and Halloween Havoc Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm sorry, my mic came loose for a second. and he say Oh, okay.
00:00:06
Speaker
So you're talking like I just touched it slightly and it rolled over and now it's like, that's my audio input.
00:00:13
Speaker
Okay. Sorry about that. It was just jarring because i just touched on the thing. Like, it spun over. You got way louder of a sudden and they're like ah what's happening?
00:00:24
Speaker
Look, let's just chalk this up to the curse of Halloween havoc, right? Exactly. like
00:00:56
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days, and not so good old days, of World Championship Wrestling series by series.
Host Introduction and Halloween Banter
00:01:05
Speaker
I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by a suspiciously Alec Pridgen-shaped masked figure, the Let's Go to the Ring Halloween Phantom.
00:01:13
Speaker
Oh, he's pulling off the mask. Oh, what what a shocker. It's Alec Pridgen. Really surprises our key to Halloween. I figured this would be the biggest I could give you. Yeah, yeah. know you you You being you is is is quite a shock.
00:01:26
Speaker
I mean, my mustache does show under the mask. It does help a little bit.
00:01:31
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Al?
Audio Issues and WCW's Mad Max Influence
00:01:32
Speaker
There you go. it's going okay i am i will apologize to our audience if the sound quality ends up not as good this time i am recording for the first time from a new apartment and i am not quite sure of the right position for the microphone and everything so hoping i don't have a tremendous amount of echo in the final edit but we shall see if it does just consider it spooky atmosphere hey go
00:01:57
Speaker
Tonight, we are taking a look at Halloween Havoc 1992, Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal. Another of your regular reminders during this series that the folks at WCW are really, really big fans of the Mad Max franchise, though at least they inverted Beyond Thunderdome's bust-a-deal, face-the-wheel chant this time instead of ripping it off wholesale.
00:02:17
Speaker
True. Ha ha ha ha.
Halloween Havoc 1992 Event and Matches Overview
00:02:21
Speaker
Halloween Havoc 1992 was held on October 25th, 1992 at the Philadelphia Civic Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in front of 7,000 fans, 5,000 paid. That's the same arena as the 1989 show, with about 300 less in attendance, so WCW has been reasonably consistent.
00:02:40
Speaker
And it's Philly, so I imagine the crowd is going to be consistent too. Consistently weird. Halloween Havoc 1992 received 130,000 pay-per-view buys, 10,000 less than last year, but the second highest WSW pay-per-view of 1992, behind only February's Super Brawl 2, which had 135,000.
00:03:02
Speaker
Before the show proper, there was one dark match. Eric Watts and Van Hammer versus the Vegas Connection, Diamond Dallas Page and Vinny Vegas. I am so very torn on my feelings I'm missing this one.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah. We miss out on very early DDP and Kevin Nash as Vinny Vegas, but then we would have to watch Van Hammer. Yeah, it's weird. I almost feel bad for Eric Watts here.
00:03:28
Speaker
I do. I do. Yeah. I don't really mind Eric Watts as much after that one kind of nice at work focus match he had with Regal at Beach Blast 1993. Mm hmm.
00:03:40
Speaker
But admittedly, his name doesn't fill me with enthusiasm either. But I mean, between him and Van Hammer, yeah, Eric Watts any day. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm balanced. I'm glad that we missed this one, but it's closer than you would think. Mm hmm. So, can WCW finally break the streak of, it's alright, I guess, Halloween Havocs?
Creative Video Packages and Event Themes
00:04:02
Speaker
To find out, let's go to the ring.
00:04:07
Speaker
If there is one thing that this series keeps nailing without a problem, it's the opening video packages. Once again, this one focuses around art of a haunted house on a stormy night.
00:04:19
Speaker
But this time we get Sting doing his stinger call to the moon like a werewolf. And Jake Roberts laughing in front of the special Wheel of Match types that we'll see later in the show before the door opens and ghostly Ron Simmons flies out.
00:04:32
Speaker
We enter the house and see the ghosts of Barbarian, Masahiro Chono, and Rick Rude as well, before the Halloween Havoc logo comes on screen accompanied by the flash of lightning. The ghosts even get spooky woo kind of noises this year.
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, they do, yeah.
00:04:49
Speaker
What's better, this year the order the ghosts appear in actually makes sense. Sting is facing Jake Roberts. Ron Simmons is facing Barbarian. Chono is facing Rick Rude.
00:05:01
Speaker
It's like someone backstage actually thought it through for once. I love these opening videos. We will have to see if this continues for the full series, because if it does, I think we might have to add an intro video package award for this series, Al.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. Though from my recollection, 1995 may be pretty hard to top. That's the ah vampire Tony Schiavone. Oh, that's, yeah. I knew that was 94, 95, yeah.
00:05:28
Speaker
Loads of fireworks greet us as host Tony Schiavone welcomes us to the show alongside the living legend Bruno Sammartino. Somewhere, Larry Zbisco is losing his s***.
00:05:40
Speaker
Kind of neat, almost medieval or gothic font choice for the show this time, so someone's thinking thematically there, too. Tony builds up the spin the wheel, make the deal
Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Match Types
00:05:50
Speaker
theme. Tony says that there's 12 possible matches for the spin the wheel, make the deal match.
00:05:55
Speaker
And there are lights out as in non-sanctioned by WCW. That term really confused you and me on our first watch because lights out is sometimes used as a match gimmick itself, right?
00:06:06
Speaker
Correct, yeah. Focus on the arena lights actually being dimmed or off for the match, or I think sometimes it means the blindfold match as well. I think there's instance where they do that for like an involving like a knockout as well. Right, yeah. Knocking someone's lights out would make sense, yeah.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah. I think there's a dug in that that involves that. Would make sense, yeah. Yeah. Sammartino says an unsanctioned match is very dangerous and could be career-ending for either man.
00:06:34
Speaker
The full list of match types is shown. A Texas Bull Rope match. A Spinner's Choice match. A Russian Chain match. A Dog Collar match.
00:06:45
Speaker
An I Quit match. A Barbed Wire match. A Cage match. A Match with Lumberjacks with Belts. A Prince of Darkness match, which I believe would probably be blindfold match.
00:06:59
Speaker
Probably, yeah. A Texas Death match, a Coal Miner's Glove match, and a First Blood match. Now, it's worth noting that three of those involve with the guys using or being attached by a rope or a chain. It's also worth noting that for some reason, Spinners in Spinner's Choice is plural.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah. We're only going to have Sting come out to spin, so presumably it would be his and only his choice, right? It should be Stinger's choice. Stinger's choice, right, yeah. Yeah. What's weirder is that at certain points they do talk about Spinner's choice on the show, and it sounds like it means that it would be Jake's choice, which is all kinds of incorrect for naming then.
00:07:39
Speaker
It should be Snake's choice. Yeah, yeah.
Cactus Jack's Training Video and Match Preparation
00:07:42
Speaker
Tony turns to the WSW World Heavyweight title match, and we see video of Cactus Jack training Barbarian by having large men slam him over and over.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yep. I could be wrong, but I think one of those guys was Ice Train, wasn't it? Correct. The last guy's Ice Train, yeah. Okay, cool. It's in there for a quick shot, but I like, that looks like him. As Tony points out, that was training to help Barbarian learn to absorb Simmons' power slam.
00:08:08
Speaker
Sam Martino advises Simmons to be cautious with Cactus Jack being at ringside. Tony also covers the Unified World Tag Title match. Dr. Death Steve Williams has lost his partner, Terry Bam Bam Gordy, but has a new partner, Stunning Steve Austin.
00:08:23
Speaker
So a couple years earlier when he broke an industry, Stunning Steve Austin came in and they said, look, you can't be Steve Williams, which is your actual name, because there is a Dr. Death Steve Williams, and he's kind of a big star.
00:08:37
Speaker
So Austin had think of another name and he thought of the six million dollar man, Steve Austin, and thus is born.
00:08:45
Speaker
That means we are getting the tag team of Steve Williams and Steve Williams. I love that. I love that.
Rick Rude's Dual Title Challenges
00:08:52
Speaker
The level of coincidence necessary for this to happen is great.
00:08:56
Speaker
I know, right? It's one thing if there's two wrestlers with the same first name existing just at the same time. where That's probably not that common, right? Yeah. Even Williams is a general kind of common use name. It's still a coincidence that they're both wrestling currently at the same time.
00:09:11
Speaker
They're wrestling different eras, different regions even. But they're in the same company and then some them in the same match just because of stuff we'll talk about. face a line to give us this very unique version of a twin tag team.
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely fascinating that that that that happened. I just adoring of that. hmm. They will face champions Dustin Rhodes and Barry Windham, who have been at odds with each other.
00:09:39
Speaker
We even get footage of them arguing at ringside during a match and trading slaps. Sammartino says it could be hard for Wyndham and Rhodes as they prep to face Wyndham and Gordy. Fortunately, he corrupts to Williams and Gordy a moment later.
00:09:53
Speaker
Wyndham and Gordy would be a cool team. Yeah. Tony finally turns to Rick Rude's situation. He is challenging Chono for the NWA World Heavyweight title, but he has to defend his own US title first.
00:10:05
Speaker
So he has to wrestle twice tonight. Sam Martino says it's a tough situation, but if he succeeds, he's going to be known as one of the greatest of all time. Tony says there's going to be two referees for the NWA world title match, one chosen by each side, and he throws to Missy Hyatt to ask if she has found out who Rude's choice is.
00:10:25
Speaker
Missy, who is dressed in a manner I can only describe as sexy gold statue of liberty attending a masquerade ball, has not. She does, however, imply that Roode may not actually be in both title matches tonight and throws to our commentary team, Jim Ross, and the man that she's voting for for President of the United States, Jesse the Body Ventura.
00:10:46
Speaker
We cut to JR and Jesse, the latter wearing a Grim Reaper cloak and mask, which would not make me vote for him for President, I have to say. Kind of a bad omen. You don't fear the Reaper?
00:10:57
Speaker
I do fear the Reaper, which is why I don't want him as my President. ah Fair enough. So people have a waste on fear. can I say?
00:11:06
Speaker
Jesse acts like he is scared of JR's mask. JR is not wearing a mask. Yeah. JR sarcastically knows sells. They talk over the spin the wheel situation and Jesse is excited.
00:11:18
Speaker
We see a clip from backstage where WSW has all the various special props for the matches lined up on the wall, revealing that planning for 12 possible matches is considerably more expensive than planning for just one.
00:11:30
Speaker
JR says they don't know what the spinner's choice is other than that Jake said his Cobra will be involved in it. But as we said, Jake is not the one spinning. Sting is. Why does Jake get to choose?
00:11:42
Speaker
Maybe if Sting picks, he'd make the Cobra the special guest ref.
00:11:48
Speaker
yeah to me You'd be curious to see how that would work. Honestly, that's not out of character for Sting. I can see him being like, yeah, I can totally trust a Cobra, right? Yeah. Well, based on the logic that if he brings it with them to ringside, I guess his second or his manager or whatever you'd call a snake in this situation, it could hurt him. Where if it's the referee, the referee can't betray him, you know?
00:12:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. There has never been ah a match in the history of professional wrestling where a referee betrayed someone. Definitely. Exactly, yeah. there's There's definitely not one in 1997 involving Sting himself and Hulk Hogan.
00:12:23
Speaker
No, can't think of one. No, yeah, me neither.
00:12:27
Speaker
JR says that there's anti-cobra venom on site. and Unless he means venom specifically meant for killing a cobra, I think he might have meant cobra anti-venom. Tomato Omato.
00:12:41
Speaker
And after that quite long introduction, it's finally time for our first match. Yeah, I checked. It's like a five minute intro for the whole show. I'm like, wow, that's kind long. Yeah, there's there's a lot they have to go through for for this one. It's pretty considerable.
00:12:54
Speaker
So our first match is Michael P.S. Hayes, beautiful Bobby Eaton, and the Enforcer Arn Anderson versus Johnny Gunn, Shane Douglas, and the Z-Man, Tom Zink, in a six-man
Pillman vs. Steamboat Match Analysis
00:13:07
Speaker
tag match. The referee for this one is Mike Atkins.
00:13:10
Speaker
So at this point, the Dangerous Alliance, which we got introduced to in the previous episode, is now mostly not a thing. They don't really team together after the the Russell War match that didn't exactly go their way.
00:13:23
Speaker
That's why we have the team of Eaton and Anderson, who are part of that group, teaming up with Michael P.S. Hayes, who is, as we kind of talk about in the match itself, sort acting as a manager, but also a commentator and sometimes a wrestler.
00:13:36
Speaker
Oh, OK. Notably, Zink and Gunn are a regular tag team throughout the, guess, B&C shows, as they were at this point. Although I did find an interesting right before this show, Zink worked a tour of Japan.
00:13:48
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah. tagged with Jim Neidhart, who was, don't know if he's technically a part of this roster. He might've just been aligned with new Japan. It's kind of hard to tell because, you know, his history of in out companies due to various personal and other reasons. It's hard to keep track of where he is at most times.
00:14:06
Speaker
The ah team for looking at cage match, which is a very helpful resource in these situations. Pre-Ride's lost every match they had. However, they did lose them to names you would recognize if you listened to our previous series about the WCW New Japan Super Shows.
00:14:19
Speaker
Oh, cool. Names such as Shinya Hashimoto, Roshi Hase, and Ricky Chosu all got the W over this team. So Tom Zenk is effectively an extended member of the Hart Foundation.
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:14:33
Speaker
Given that weird brief period where Owen Hart wrestled for WCW before WDF, it really does connect somehow. Yeah, yeah.
00:14:42
Speaker
but That's cool.
00:14:46
Speaker
Sadly, the entrance tonight is just a curtain. Hayes, Eaton, and Anderson are out first. With this lineup, they are obviously heels. We're in Philly, and it's Halloween Havoc, with a free bird on the team, so obviously they get massive cheers.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah. And the faces, entering second, get booed heavily, despite Johnny Gunn and Shane Douglas being from Pennsylvania. The streak continues. Gun is even from Philly.
00:15:15
Speaker
You know, that could work against you. If you have a good rep in town, that could hurt you. Yeah, it was a jerk to someone at sandwich shop the day before or something. and Yeah. Yeah, we know that guy. He's got unpaid parking tickets.
00:15:32
Speaker
Anderson and Gunn start, and Anderson pinches Gunn's cheek. Gunn angrily bats his hand away. Atkins breaks it up, so Anderson cheap shots Gunn, but Gunn somewhat slowly fights back, and they build to all three faces dropkicking all three heels, including Z-Man dropkicking Anderson off the top rope to the floor and posing.
00:15:52
Speaker
Taboos. Z-Man in, and he fights off Anderson, then eaten, as the crowd cheers the heels. then massively cheers for Hayes when he's tagged in. Jesse is in disbelief.
00:16:04
Speaker
Welcome to Philly, and Halloween Havoc in general with a free bird, Jess. Hayes struts for the crowd, but Z-Man, then Douglas, work his arm. Hayes tags Eaton, who quickly cheap shots Douglas, but Douglas counters with a nice delay head scissor and a kind of simplified dragon screw leg whip that Jesse dubs a leg drag for its resemblance to an arm drag.
00:16:26
Speaker
Jesse says he doesn't like Douglas as he thinks he's a right-wing Republican. Okay then. Tagged to Z-Man, but Eaton pokes his eyes, and he, Anderson, and Hayes trade off wearing Z-Man down using some quick tags.
00:16:40
Speaker
Eaton even tags Arn mid-being atomic dropped, leading to Arn clotheslining an unaware Z-Man after he just dodged an Eaton clothesline. That earns Arn massive cheers, so he just goes with it and pumps up the crowd before pinning for two.
00:16:54
Speaker
I don't remember exactly where it is, but there's one point where Arn visibly shrugs at the reaction he's getting. It's just like, oh, hell with it. but Yeah, pretty much. The double teams continue, but Z-Man counters a Haze suplex with his own and tags Douglas to virtually no reaction.
00:17:10
Speaker
Ouch. Yeah. Douglas runs wild, but as he tries to suplex Anderson, Eaton chop blocks him to massive cheers. Double ouch. Anderson works the leg with stomps and drops, tags Eaton, and holds Douglas for a top rope Eaton knee drop to the leg, and Eaton slaps on the figure four and gets leveraged from Hayes for a few two counts, as Z-Man and Gunn, whose name I had literally forgotten by this point as it had been so long since he'd been in the match, inadvisably protest and distract the ref, allowing for more cheating.
00:17:41
Speaker
Douglas turns the hold over, but Eaton tags Anderson to take over. Douglas dodges a punch and Atomic drops Anderson, but he bounces off the ropes and they knock heads. Tag to Hayes and tag to Gunn.
00:17:55
Speaker
Gunn lands punches, back body drops Hayes, and slams Eaton and Hayes, and everyone's into brawl. Z-Man dumps Anderson over the top rope and Douglas counters nothing in particular by Eaton off the top rope with a belly-to-belly suplex.
00:18:08
Speaker
Z-Man sidekicks Hayes, and Gunn hits the Thez press on Hayes for the three count and the win. The faces celebrate to the boos of the crowd. It's not universal, a lady in the front row is clearly pleased, but this was not the result that the crowd wanted overall.
00:18:25
Speaker
For crap's sake, WSW, at least don't have them pin the Freebird on Halloween Havoc, you have to know by now.
00:18:33
Speaker
Jesse expresses disbelief that the ref counted with so many illegal men in the ring, and notes the crowd's disapproval. Thoughts on this one? This is a pretty enjoyable match. It definitely helps in a weird way that the crowd is just so odd for it.
00:18:46
Speaker
Because in most cases, when the crowd is not into the match the right way, it can be very distracting. But there's a certain weird charm to this, especially because, and it's not really their fault,
00:18:58
Speaker
It's really the the way they're booked. But the face team is just really kind of generic white dudes in the trunks that do real basic stuff. So in a weird way, the heels are much more interesting just to watch.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah. Because they have their own characters and they have their own unique looks. The crowd at least is into the match in some way. Yes. So they they didn't decide to just ignore the match and play with a beach ball like we've seen on other shows. Right. They decided to cheer for the opposite side of what they were expected to cheer for, but they did decide to cheer for a side.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's definitely weird hearing people boo Shane Douglas in Philadelphia just about two years before ECW begins. Yes, like the the biggest star in Philly for a generous portion of ECW's run.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah. his Is getting just booed out of the building here. and And this is the second time. Yeah, it's true. Makes you wonder if that was a motivation and permit me becomes, you know, evil Shane Douglas, like as a heel champion.
00:19:57
Speaker
he just really embraced that, like uses that in promos about how he hates people here because like how they treated me when I was younger. i wouldn't doubt it. I mean, that's famously how Rock formed his heel persona, right? Was like, yeah, he was legit angry about the reaction that he got the first time he came in when he felt he was doing his best. But he just he decided to channel that into his heel side. So I wouldn't be surprised if Shane Douglas did the same thing.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah. And if it would would channel sort of petty aggression into a character, it definitely Shane Douglas. This is fair. but Yes. His own character for several years was I hate Ric Flair.
00:20:32
Speaker
but You didn't even meet for quite a long time. Yes. In general, I did like the match, though. Crowd aside, ah thought it was a good mix of action. The six-man aspect I discussed before allows for quicker tags in and out and more changing.
00:20:47
Speaker
So it's less of a, we're going to wreck this one hold for like three minutes and you struggle a little bit. It's more interchanging. I will say there's some inconsistency how the match story is told. It's like, oh, work on this leg. Oh, never mind. We're not doing that anymore. And now the heels are in charge.
00:21:03
Speaker
Leg's just fine. You know, stuff like that. And the finish was interesting because it's like there's this whole story of, you know, the real experience heel tag team. They can control the ring. They know these tricks.
00:21:16
Speaker
And then the bases just go, let's just all run the ring and fight at the same time. The ref will just let us do it. It's not an outright bad ending, but it does feel strange in two ways. I think number one, the, like you said, and like Jesse points out, why is the ref counting when all these people are still in the ring?
00:21:34
Speaker
the The tag team breakdown is kind of a well-established thing, but oftentimes it does still end with like the illegal men going out of the ring, or at least getting out of the way, for the ref to count the pinfall. But this time, yeah everyone's just active, and the ref's just like, nope, I'm going to count.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, Shane Nugent is literally giving a suplex to the guy next to the person being pinned. Yes. Is it weird to anyone else that the person who's being thrown over the top rope is outside, it's just not mentioned by commentators or anybody throughout the match?
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, that is very weird that at the end of the match, someone gets thrown over the top rope, which would normally be a DQ, and they basically don't mention it at all. Mm-hmm. It's enjoyable match. I just wish that the, and it wasn't just so sort of chaotic and sort of rushed in there.
00:22:21
Speaker
It kind of breaks up the whole story of the team that can control the rules and use the advantage because they face just, just come in a fight and they're like, yeah, rules of matter. Yeah. Yeah. Bizarro World crowd reaction aside, something we're growing quite used to on this series, this was a really nice opener with the usual fast six-man pace and frequent changes of action.
00:22:42
Speaker
The faces were pretty generic, but did their part to keep up the pace and show off some nice moves. Douglas in particular looked quite good at some points as he had his own unique style of moves that stood out, and Z-Man did his best at being face in peril.
00:22:56
Speaker
The crowd just didn't care. The bulk of the character work and therefore storytelling of the match, though, was on the heel team, which smoothly executed a vast array of clever strategies and dirty tricks that kept the match interesting straight through, probably bemused as each and every one got cheered.
00:23:12
Speaker
Billy, man. Credit to the heels, especially Arn and Hayes, for just going with the crowd reaction and playing to them after a bit. Hayes doesn't go as far as he did with the 1989 match, but he gives off the same vibe.
00:23:25
Speaker
All told, it's a good opener with fun heel tactics that I really enjoyed, even if the crowd's reaction makes it a bit of a strange watch.
00:23:34
Speaker
Shane Douglas would use the momentum of this win to challenge for the WCW Tag Team titles at the next class show, but who will be his partner? Spoiler alert, it's not Johnny Gunn.
00:23:45
Speaker
It's significantly better than Johnny Gunn, as I as i recall. Yes. JR throws to Hyatt, who is by Rude's locker room, unable to get in. She spots Harley Race and asks what he's doing there, and if he can get her in.
00:23:59
Speaker
He says he's there to watch a WSW World title match, and to answer her question, no. He goes in, she tries to sneak in anyway, and a very thick arm blocks her way. She says that's the first time she's not been invited into a locker room, and throws to Tony.
00:24:14
Speaker
Tony notes that Race is a seven-time former world champ, and Bruno says that if Race wanted to watch the match, he could just watch on pay-per-view. He doesn't have to go into Rude's room. He says something is up.
00:24:25
Speaker
Race has something up his sleeve. Tony gives us a let's go to the ring. Yeah. Let's go to the ring, fans, for our next event. So our second match is Flyin' Brian Pillman versus Ricky the Dragon Steamboat.
00:24:40
Speaker
The referee for this one is Randy Anderson. Pilbara turned heel pretty recently. But what happened basically was he was scheduled to challenge Brad Armstrong for the WCW Light Heavyweight title.
00:24:52
Speaker
However, Armstrong was injured for a little while. They use the rarely implemented 30-day rule where he can't defend the title, it's vacated. What's extra curious is they then decide, oh, well, due to complication to getting people to show up for a tournament, we're going to hold a tournament in February of next year.
00:25:12
Speaker
And it's like says September what's happening. So it's like, yeah, enjoy having no title for several months. Oh, my gosh. And also. Shortly after all this happens, perhaps when it comes back, it wrestles.
00:25:26
Speaker
So we stripped him of the title because he couldn't defend it for 30 days. And then we decided to not have the title for longer than he was away. Correct. Yes. he I mean, there's a lot to the whole you had of the title thing, but it's weird that then the title is vacant for like six months.
00:25:47
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. An interesting flip of fortune, however, on the exact same show, Registeinbo would win the TV title off of then champion stunning Steve Austin.
00:25:58
Speaker
However, his run would be fairly short as he would lose it to a then recently turned heel Scott Steiner. I'll get more into the Steiner issue later involving the tag match and just how complicated that gets.
00:26:11
Speaker
But essentially, they started doing a story where Scott was a solo act in fitting the champion as a heel. A proto example would be his later heel run we'd see when he'd become full on Lee Pump Pump Scott Steiner.
00:26:27
Speaker
You can tell Pillman is a heel now because his music plays for quite a while before he comes out, whereas last time he got to the ring before the first few measures finished. He brushes off the crowd as he comes out and gives a wonderfully sarcastic smile in the ring.
00:26:41
Speaker
Steamboat's triumphant music is super cool, and he gets a huge reaction from the crowd, so we're not in Bizarro World for this match, at least. Yeah. If they booed Steamboat, I might never forgive them. that's That's fair.
00:26:54
Speaker
Very cool, the dragon G for Steamboat, and cooled red dragon-themed tights. Mm-hmm, yeah. yeah Pillman still has the same outfit as last year. He has turned heel, but he hasn't really been re-gimmicked yet.
00:27:07
Speaker
Jesse summarizes this pretty well. Not two of the biggest men in wrestling, but definitely two of the most talented. Steamboat gets a couple early pin attempts off shoulder blocks, but Pillman shoves him over the top rope.
00:27:20
Speaker
But Steamboat skins the cat back in and rolls him up for two. Pillman sends him into the turnbuckle on the kickout and brags to the crowd, but Steamboat plays possum and slaps on an arm bar when he comes over, then works the arm with arm bars and arm drag, wrist locks, a chop, a hammer lock, and knee strikes, and slams Pillman.
00:27:38
Speaker
But Pillman rakes the eyes. JR and Jesse talk over Steamboat being more of the power wrestler versus the faster Pillman, whereas normally Steamboat is the speed wrestler in matches. Steamboat proves them right with a double-handed elevated choke and continues the beatdown, but Pillman collapses repeatedly on whips, so Anderson will check on him, then cheap shots Steamboat while he's distracted and lands some blows to the face, and counters a comeback with a headscissors that actually earns him some cheers for two.
00:28:05
Speaker
He quickly chokes Steamboat so the crowd won't treat him like a good guy for fancy moves. so Steamboat counters a hip toss with a backslide for two. More choking, and Pillman puts him up top and slaps him, but Steamboat throws him to the mat, but Pillman counters a second rope splash with a dropkick for multiple two counts.
00:28:24
Speaker
Pillman complains, and Steamboat back suplexes him. Both men are down, up at six. Pillman counters a whip into a sleeper hold and climbs on Steamboat's shoulders, but Steamboat fights back and eventually charges to the corner and ducks, sending Pillman face first into it, twice, to knock him off.
00:28:42
Speaker
Pillman stuns Steamboat with a rope snap, but Steamboat flare karmas him from the top. Pillman flees outside, gets Steamboat to chase him, and knees him when they re-enter, but Steamboat fights back, so Pillman flees again.
00:28:55
Speaker
Steamboat fights him outside, and Jesse says he hasn't learned anything, only for Steamboat to prove otherwise by waiting for Pillman to charge him as they re-enter, then knocking Pillman's legs out from under him. Pillman knee strike and second rope crossbody for two, but Steamboat backbreakers him, then hits a top rope sunset flip for two, reversed by Pillman for two, and countered again by Steamboat, for the three count and the win.
00:29:18
Speaker
Massive cheers by the crowd for that. Steamboat poses in victory and a dejected Pillman paces in the background. As we cut to replay, Pillman grabs Anderson to have some words.
00:29:29
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? thought this was a very good match. I mean, it shouldn't be surprise with the two people we have involved. As I mentioned, it's interesting to see Steamboat play a different role here. as like I said, he's often a smaller wrestler, or very least, he's not as in control. Even Flair is not bigger than him, so but obviously Flair works the leg, and then he's got constantly fight back up underneath of that.
00:29:53
Speaker
So seeing him work more of a power style is very fascinating to see here. Yeah, yeah. Pillman for his part as well, I thought did a good job of being heel. As you mentioned, he hasn't been re-gimmicked yet, so he's still normal Brian Pillman, but just doing heelish moves.
00:30:07
Speaker
So it definitely is. It's a step in the right direction. What really worked for me in this match is just how competitive it is. There's never a point for too long where one guy is in control.
00:30:18
Speaker
As we talked before, Steamboat's really good about constantly being active, even when like working through a hold or trying to fight his way out of something. Yeah, definitely. so there's never really a true lull in the action.
00:30:29
Speaker
I will say this match is also helped by a thing I should mention, which is that the top rope rule has been gotten rid of now. And I was going through watching Dubs 3 Saturday nights for information here.
00:30:40
Speaker
They actually opened a show where in great detail, Bill Watts goes through and explains what's legal and what's not legal. Basically, you can do anything on the top rope except knee drop someone to the head. That's automatically disqualification still.
00:30:54
Speaker
Okay. But you can knee drop into the leg as we saw in the previous match and that's fine.
00:31:00
Speaker
Interesting. I definitely liked just how back and forth this one was. I was curious how they handled because i said it. Pillman is a smaller wrestler. The question is, how is he going to work the heel style? And answer is just wrestling very similar. He wrestled as the face, obviously was the adding in the choking and, you know, other sort of heelish moves there.
00:31:20
Speaker
But there's interesting parallels between like the match we saw recently where it's him and Luger, but now he's a heel against Steamboat. Yeah, it kind of doesn't change up his actual in-ring style that much at this point.
00:31:31
Speaker
He just becomes more of a jerk. Yeah. You just constantly make sure that you know that he's a real jerk and an arrogant guy and too self-assured and cocky and everything. I feel like if this were the later 90s, this might not be enough.
00:31:45
Speaker
But in the early 90s, people are still reacting to just that type of character as a bad guy rather than a cool heel. The finish is interesting to me because ah totally get what they're going for.
00:31:57
Speaker
You're really leaning into the pure wrestling aspect and just debo getting the counter on the move. At the same time, it doesn't give you a truly decisive finish because it definitely feels like they're building up to more Pillman and Dean Boat action, which obviously have no problem with.
00:32:11
Speaker
But as an ending for the match, it's and it could be stronger, but it's effective for what it is. I think what works about the ending to me is that it it looks like, it doesn't look like Steamboat just got lucky, but it looks like it's just a matter of him having some more experience, but Pillman also almost getting there.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. So i think it's I think it's a good one for not crushing Pillman when he's trying to get started. If for whatever reason you don't want him to beat Steamboat here, and think it's actually a good way of having him lose that it doesn't feel like he got solidly, solidly beaten. It feels like in that moment Steamboat outwitted him, but it could have gone the other way.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, I thought this was terrific. Hillman had quite recently turned heel here and was immediately given one of the two best guys in the company to get booed against. Yeah.
00:33:00
Speaker
Ricky Steamboat. The other would be Sting, of course. Naturally, yeah. What a way to get to establish your heel persona, right? And establish it, Pillman does, doing a great job of showing the cocky, arrogant, jerk persona that he's later going to use as part of the Hollywood blondes.
00:33:16
Speaker
Steamboat, as one would expect, gives him a really good match, letting him show his stuff and playing the perfect, likable baby face to make sure a Pillman gets really good heel heat. It's neat, too, for letting Steamboat play pure power wrestler at times, as the commentators point out, and as you were talking about, Al.
00:33:31
Speaker
Steamboat's often facing guys about his size or larger, so while he's hardly a cruiserweight, he doesn't normally play quite as power-oriented as he does in this match. He gets to throw the somewhat smaller pillman around quite aggressively at times.
00:33:44
Speaker
Mm-hmm. If there's one minor complaint I have, I'd say that there's maybe a tad too much of the Steamboat Flare formula in this, including the Flare Karma spot and some chop exchanges, for instance.
00:33:55
Speaker
It's a formula that works, but it's a little bit recognizable. But again, Pillman is very new to being a heel, so that's forgivable. It lets him use a good outline and build off of it. Overall, it's a really excellent and very fun watch that lets Pillman establish his character while facing one of the best in the business.
00:34:13
Speaker
I talked about this when we watched this before, but it reminded me of example of a match that stands out for the the reason we talked about, which is someone just wrestling differently because of the opponent they have.
00:34:24
Speaker
The one I just remember was the Eddie Guerrero tribute show. It's the Raw after Fortunately Passed Away, where the main event match is Rey Mysterio and Shawn Michaels. Right, right. Yeah, i remember you talking about that.
00:34:36
Speaker
I mean, besides just being good matches, it's interesting because Sean Michaels is like Steamboat is playing the power wrestler. He's like doing power slams and suplex. And you're like, it it's always been fun for him to try get to do that. Because normally, even at that point, at best, he's the same height as some of these guys and still probably 20 pounds lighter.
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah, you you get the a lot of that from Rey Mysterio and WCW as well. I remember us talking about on some of his matches in like 96, 97, 98. You have him versus a guy that is normally the smaller wrestler in a match. But because he's against Rey Mysterio, he's getting to do the power bombs and heavier looking moves than he normally gets to do.
00:35:12
Speaker
Exactly. Pellman went into the Battle Bowl tournament because that was brought back for some reason at Starrcade 92.
00:35:21
Speaker
As you'll know if you listened to the episode, it is thankfully a much truncated or shrunk down version of the tournament. Yes. Mixed in with other non-tournament matches, so that show is a lot better for that reason.
00:35:33
Speaker
Yeah, Starrcade 92 was much better than Starrcade 91. It had a lot of quite interesting matches mixed in with the Battle Bowl stuff, and the Battle Bowl stuff itself was far more tolerable.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah, like four battle matches in the main event. Not, you know, 11. Yes. Or however many it felt like. ah Yeah, two thirds of eternity, I think. Fair enough.
00:35:56
Speaker
As steam buddy, I'll stay busy that night. And the two of them will cross paths, which I'll talk about a little more later. We cut to Teddy Long, who is with NWA World Heavyweight Champion Masahiro Chono and his entourage, including Kinsuke Sasaki, NWA President Sakaguchi, and New Japan Representative Hiro Matsuda.
NWA World Heavyweight Title Match Setup
00:36:17
Speaker
Matsuda, by the way, was also famous as a trainer of quite a few wrestlers over the years, most notably for our purposes, including Ron s Simmons, Scott Hall, the Great Muda, and and even Hulk Hogan, among many others.
00:36:32
Speaker
True, yeah. He actually resided in Tampa, Florida late in his life until his passing in 1999. Oh, neat. oh beat Long introduces the Japanese contingent and notes that Missy Hyatt hasn't been able to find out Rude's choice of referee.
00:36:46
Speaker
He asks Matsuda, who Chono will select. Matsuda confers with Sakaguchi, who indicates Sasaki. Matsuda gently says Sasaki will be the special referee. Long gets a little tongue-tied with the name.
00:36:59
Speaker
Not that I have room to talk since I regularly somehow screw up Long's name. What was the one time? Theodore? and That sounds right, yeah.
00:37:09
Speaker
Long also says there's been a ruling concerning Rude's US title match, and he throws to Tony Schiavone, who is with Bill Watts. Tony asks Watts about Sasaki, and Watts says he fits all the criteria, and that we know Harley Race is going to be Rude's referee choice.
00:37:24
Speaker
Wait, huh? How do we know that? His latest Teddy Long's part of this segment. No, we didn't.
00:37:30
Speaker
Watt says both have experience and will referee well. Tony asks about Dr. Death's choice of tag partner, Steve Austin, and Watt says that Gordy has been suspended indefinitely for breach of contract by the WCW.
00:37:43
Speaker
ah He didn't even come from the WWF recently, did he? No, I don't believe so. I guess he technically worked for like the UWF or something like that before this though. so Yeah. it just He has that kind of excuse anyway.
00:37:55
Speaker
That's fair. Watts says the fans are going to get a title match and Austin was Doc's choice. That didn't really say anything new, but thanks. Yeah. Tony brings up the U.S. title match and how Rude will have to defend that title in addition to challenging him for the NWA world title.
00:38:11
Speaker
Watts says Rude and Paulie's attorneys got involved and there was a judge threatening an injunction. So WSW has ruled that Rude can have a designated surrogate to wrestle Koloff for the U.S. title.
00:38:23
Speaker
Big Van Vader. Watts says, however, that it's still one fall, no disqualification, Medusa is barred, and if Koloff beats Vader, Rude loses the title. Well, that was a weird mix of saying things that hadn't been revealed like they were already known, and just repeating things that were already known without adding anything new.
00:38:41
Speaker
Yeah. I do like the official trappings of all of this, but they definitely could have polished up the storytelling a bit. Yeah. One thing I noticed in the first part, along, is it's clear that none of the people in the back, except maybe obviously the guy that speaks at the end, can understand what he's saying at all.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm not doing it, because if that was Switch and I was surrounded by Japanese people, I would be the exact same way. be like, uh-huh, yeah, okay, sure. There's not, like, reactions no to what he's saying in general. they You can tell they've just been told, stare at the camera.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yes. Not occasionally. Yeah, Chono just kind of stares straight ahead and not reacting anything I said about it. You know, it's about his title match and like his, you know, his friend, I would assume being his ref and just like, yeah, I'm also here.
00:39:30
Speaker
i do think like on a certain level of with Chono in particular, it kind of works that it makes him look very stoic and somewhat intimidating that he's just like staring dead at the camera the entire time. Yeah.
00:39:41
Speaker
But yeah, it is interesting. You can kind of tell. Yeah. Our third match is Nikita Koloff, the cookie monster himself, versus Big Van Vader, subbing for a Ravishing Rick Rude, with Rick Rude and Harley Race, briefly, in a no-disqualification match for Rude's WCW United States Championship.
00:40:01
Speaker
The referee for this one is Nick Patrick. Koloff wanted to win the U.S. title, going back to his glory days as a dominant champion. As you might recall, he held the U.S. title for roughly a year, back around 1985-86.
00:40:15
Speaker
He is also the reason why we have the current belt design is last year when he made his return as a heel, he attacked then champion Lex Luger and destroyed the belt. Oh, that was such a great shock attack. I liked that one. ah was That was at Wrestle War, wasn't it?
00:40:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. 90 Wrestle War 91, I think. Yeah, that does sound right. Yeah.
00:40:36
Speaker
There's also part of a story that gets built up a bit more later. It's established that they built this probably dangerously left an open contract for a US title match.
00:40:47
Speaker
I guess not expecting it to be taking place at Halloween Havoc. They do ah a interview saying with Tony Schiavone and one the shows about it. And he's very defensive about it because you could tell there's dissension in the ranks because he set up a title match with almost backfired in them.
00:41:03
Speaker
And I'll say now they're in a situation where we have to substitute because fictitious lawyers and judges are somehow interfering in the title match on pay-per-view for some reason. Yeah. That most dangerous of foreign objects, the injunction.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yes. Yes. That's interesting. Okay, so that makes some of the later events of tonight make a little more sense. Yeah. For how that works out. Okay. It's also mentioned Dangerously hasn't been around.
00:41:28
Speaker
hasn't been on CTV for a while, and he gets real defensive about how I'm investing our money overseas and yada yada. So there's more of that buildup going on. If you watch the buildup shows, which obviously we don't get any of that on this episode, but this pay-per-view event, but little more for there.
00:41:44
Speaker
Okay. Koloff comes out first in his World Peace jacket with the flags of the United States and Lithuania.
Koloff vs. Vader Match Recap
00:41:51
Speaker
I believe he had that at Reservoir 1992. Yes.
00:41:54
Speaker
He slaps hands with the fans to quite big cheers. Rick Rude's theme hits and mustache-less Rick Rude comes out, wearing a red Simply Ravishing robe, followed by Vader and Harley Race.
00:42:06
Speaker
JR points out senior referee Ole Anderson at ringside conversing with ring announcer Capetta. Capetta says that special enforcing referee Ole Anderson told him Rude and Race are barred from ringside like Medusa was.
00:42:19
Speaker
Jesse calls it abuse of power on Oli's part, but JR thinks it's a great ruling, and also suggests that race can't be impartial in the NWA world title match later, as there's clearly collusion between him, his client Vader, and Rick Rude.
00:42:33
Speaker
Jesse asks if he thinks Sasaki will be objective, and JR admits that's a valid point. Jesse says, politics go on all the time. Displeased, race and Rude retreat. JR says Vader is from the Rocky Mountains and Jesse corrects that Vader is the Rocky Mountains.
00:42:51
Speaker
Tap the Rockies. Koloff stuns Vader with massive punches, but Vader mauls him. JR claims Vader has a Super Bowl ring from when he was with the l LA Rams, but Jesse knows the Rams hadn't won the Super Bowl.
00:43:04
Speaker
JR suggests he tells Vader he's a loser. For the record, Vader has an NFC championship ring, not a Super Bowl ring. He was part of the Rams at Super Bowl 14 in early 1980, but they lost to the Steelers.
00:43:16
Speaker
Okay, there you go. Vader lands heavy blows, a body splash, and a clothesline that spins Kolov to the mat, then throws Kolov out. But Kolov comes back while Vader is posing and ultimately knocks him down with a charging crossbody for two to big cheers.
00:43:30
Speaker
Kolov tries a chinlock but gets mauled in the corner again, but earns one count off a rollup and two off a crossbody. JR notes how unusual this agile offense is from Kolov, and yeah, so kind of a contrast to the last match where Steamboat was unexpectedly power that getting Kolov unexpectedly speed.
00:43:48
Speaker
True, yeah. Kolov fights Vader outside, which proves a bad idea as Vader throws him to the barricades and hits him with a chair. Jesse criticizes a fan for bouncing a beer off Vader's head.
00:43:59
Speaker
And yeah, not only should you never throw things at a performer, but if you do, maybe don't do it to the guy with the size and temperament of a rodeo bolt. Yes, that's fair. Shockingly, Vader lets him live.
00:44:12
Speaker
Vader counters a sunset flip by sitting on Koloff and continues the beatdown, including a second hard clothesline, brushing off Koloff's blows. Vader chokeslams Koloff and hits the second rope splash for two, then stops a comeback with a rear chin lock, but Koloff keeps the arm up on the third check.
00:44:29
Speaker
Koloff tries a back suplex, but can't get Vader over, and also hits a pretty awkward vertical suplex. And it's likely he was just a little too tired to be trying those on a guy the size of Vader, but he made the latter work.
00:44:42
Speaker
Koloff builds to a flying shoulder block for two, then an elbow drop for two, and clotheslines Vader out and interrupts Patrick's count so he won't win by countout. He wants the title. He goes out, but Vader dodges the sickle against the ring post and Koloff clotheslines the post.
00:44:57
Speaker
Back in, Vader quickly power bombs him for the three count and the win. Vader celebrates retaining Rude's title for him, and Jesse praises the power of friendship.
00:45:08
Speaker
but Thoughts on this one? Yeah, I like this one. It's a true hard-hitting match. I mean, what are you expecting with Vader, let alone anyone else being there? It's nice to see Koloff here because obviously, due to the nature of of these shows, we don't always see him because he wrestled very civically for one period of time, then left, came back for a little bit, and then left again.
00:45:30
Speaker
Yeah. He's always like a special guest or every time he appears in the series. Like, oh, Golov's here. Yeah. And and and we we liked him every time he kind of showed and showed up. Like, even from the beginning, when he was quite early in his career, you could tell he had something.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah. I think the moment that John nicknamed him the cookie monster, I think he became a really endearing figure to me. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I look back at his Starrcade match for the 1987, where they unified the UWF title and the WWE version TV title. remember that one being really good as well.
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's had some really good matches over the years and just a good high spirited performance generally. So, yeah, it was really good to see him back. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
As I mentioned, it interesting to have these two contrasting matches where someone goes outside their normal style. Because obviously, just about anybody, other than maybe like if you're under the Giant or like King Kong Bundy, you're going to be the underdog fighting Vader. It's just how it works.
00:46:28
Speaker
Yes. That or Galactus, I guess, maybe. and i said the proper scale. I don't know. I'd give Vader pretty even and odds against Galactus. I would as well. Yes. Yeah. I do like, though, as powerful as Vader isn't throwing knocking Kolov around, that it's not fully one-sided.
00:46:47
Speaker
Like, I read someone talking this match, it's called a squash. I'm like, but what match are you watching? I saw the same thing. It's like, what what did you see? yeah Kolov gets plenty of pin attempts on Vader and and gets a huge reaction from the crowd all that and is on offense for a generous portion of this match.
00:47:03
Speaker
Yeah, whoever wrote that was really did not watch the match. No. He just fell asleep and woke up at the finish. Oh, well, he beat the power bomb. That's what beat up the whole time. Yeah. I thought I'd get into it a little bit later. Vader might have been a bit too stiff at times here, but otherwise, it's a very enjoyable match.
00:47:20
Speaker
I like that Kolov rides to the occasion trying different stuff and trying his approach of running and diving at him more. really to do that to fight someone the size of Vader. Yeah, this was a good, strong big man match with some quite good storytelling nuances.
00:47:36
Speaker
There's a few awkward moments in the middle where Koloff doesn't quite seem to manage a power move that he's trying on Vader, but other than that, he looked good against Vader, and both guys worked hard to get the crowd into this. The crowd seemed to really like both of them, cheering Vader at times, but never at Koloff's expense.
00:47:51
Speaker
True, yeah. Kolov did well with his comebacks, especially building to them very well. And I like that Vader would repeatedly spot one of those coming and go after Kolov quickly or grab a hold to stop the buildup.
00:48:04
Speaker
They played well with the idea that like Kolov was very visible when he was kind of like getting charged up and Vader would spot that and immediately do something about it. Kolov got to look good and get a lot of offense in this.
00:48:14
Speaker
And it felt as even as Vader matches get, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's a good match, despite having what, as you referenced, Al, and I imagine you'll get into in a moment, are some fairly unfortunate consequences.
00:48:27
Speaker
I wish there was a moonsault, but other than that, that's... Any Vata match is another moonsault. I'm just a little disappointed, matter how good the actual match may be. Yeah, and that's true. Well, he's defending for Rick Brood, and Rick Brood doesn't do moonsault, so he was like, I i can't can't show him up.
00:48:40
Speaker
that's That's fair enough.
00:48:44
Speaker
Unfortunately, Koloff would get injured in this match. It is the second clothesline you mentioned, I believe is the story. I thought would probably be the one. That one looks like it hits a little hindsight too. Yeah, he ended up printing a disc in his neck, unfortunately. ah Koloff would wrestle a handful of Houshra matches.
00:49:01
Speaker
Unfortunately, also be against Vader, which didn't help things, I'm sure. That's not going to help you. Yeah. Yeah, like, can I work with, like, I know, Pillman? Maybe it may relax a little bit more.
00:49:11
Speaker
Can I work with a soft block of cheese? That'd be my ideal opponent, yes. Yes. Yeah, so this would be his last match, unfortunately, to date.
00:49:22
Speaker
Aw. Yeah. It's a shame. i mean, obviously, it's a shame always when something like that happens, regardless of whether you were planning on going on or not. But it's a shame, especially in this case, because it really feels like pull off is still beloved by the crowd and could come off of this into a longer run.
00:49:41
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. It'd be interesting, like one of those many what ifs that you kind of get into in wrestling, like imagine Koloff around when like the NWR starts up or something like that.
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah. If he if he stayed in WSW and was able to keep things going, there's there's things that he could have done that would be quite interesting to see. I could definitely picture that now you mentioned that. Yeah.
00:50:04
Speaker
As for Vader, he would be a very busy manor in the next couple of months. He would take part in the famous King of Cable tournament, which would take place across the shows and I believe in one of the Clash of Champions.
00:50:16
Speaker
The idea being that they were celebrating 20 years of wrestling on TBS. Now, obviously not WCW specifically because it was Georgia Champions of Wrestling from other companies, but they're the ones on there now, so you get to take all the credit for it.
00:50:30
Speaker
He would also take part in Jesse Ventura's less famous arm wrestling tournament. If anyone would not be betting against in an arm wrestling tournament, Vader would be pretty near the top of the list.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Him and sa Scott Norton would be a terrifying sight. Oh my gosh. Like the table would explode if they fought each other in one of those. We need to yeah double reinforce the table. Yeah, exactly. like Oh.
00:50:55
Speaker
And worth noting with this whole storyline of Vader defending the title as a proxy for rude, he would unfortunately that be rude would be injured in real life. And thus, for the title, eventually right around the time of Starrcade, he does famous promo about doctors stabbed in the back by a neurosurgeon.
00:51:13
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. Oh, yeah. There's just a weird irony to the fact that he has a guy defending a title for him. And before the interview, he is actually injured legitimately and can't defend the title.
00:51:24
Speaker
Yeah, that is odd. yeah Oh, man. Just you mentioning that King of Cable match gave me warm feelings. That was such a good match between him and Sting at that Starrcade. That's one of the best things about Starrcade 92 is
Starrcade Event Promotion and Interviews
00:51:38
Speaker
just that. Agreed. That insanely good match.
00:51:44
Speaker
Speaking of Starrcade, we get a Starrcade ad. Quite similar to last year, since, of course, we're doing Battle Bolt again. They use the same Falling Cards gimmick, but they don't bother with the Glass Bolt this time. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure some of the clips actually are from Starrcade 1991.
00:51:59
Speaker
And if so, boy, did they work hard to choose only clips that made that show look actually exciting and interesting instead of, you know, like Starrcade 1991. No cups of Arachnid Man, sadly.
00:52:13
Speaker
We cut to JR and Jesse, and JR asks Jesse how the change from Gordy to Austin is going to affect Wyndham and Rhodes, who won't have prepared for Austin. Jesse says he doesn't think they were preparing anyway, as they weren't getting along.
00:52:25
Speaker
JR throws backstage to Teddy Long, who is with Dr. Death Steve Williams and Stunning Steve Williams, or Austin, yeah in a quite random interview set with a big Halloween Havoc banner behind some of those dead plants they drag out for most shows interview sets.
00:52:41
Speaker
It looks less like an intentional set this time and more like they forgot to clean up some garbage when setting up. Yeah, I see that. Dr. Death's cool white and red with flames hooded robe makes up for it, though.
00:52:53
Speaker
Austin has moved on from the Saved by the Bell tights to a purple and black set. In just a few minutes, these two gentlemen will be facing Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes for rematch for the unified WCW World Tag Team titles. And Dr. Delph, you know, there's one thing that concerns me.
00:53:08
Speaker
Do you feel as confident with stunning Steve Austin being your partner tonight as you would be if Terry Bam Bam Gordy was here? Ha ha ha ha, Long. Trick or treat.
00:53:20
Speaker
The treat is Steve Austin is my new partner. The trick is, Danny, you two men have to face us to beat us. Steve Austin, how do you feel about it?
00:53:33
Speaker
The original game plan goes right out the window, boys. We'll see in a few seconds. We'll certainly find out. Let's go to the ring. Thanks for the name drop, Teddy. Yeah. Short promo here, though to be fair, neither guy probably had a lot of time to figure out what the story was going to be, as this is by my understanding a very, very last minute thing, like literally day of the show last minute.
00:53:53
Speaker
Yes, I'll get into that, believe me. Given that, it's amazing how Compose both look, and how they managed to put together at least a simple quick promo just based on the concept of, Gordy is Austin, now deal with it.
00:54:05
Speaker
Also, take a shot for yet another trick-or-treat promo on a Halloween Havoc show that's about as big a tradition as faces getting booed against Freebirds. Pretty much, yeah. Speaking of, Terry Gordy used to be a Freebird.
00:54:17
Speaker
Yes. I wonder if Dustin Rhodes would have somehow gotten booed if he'd attended. Possibly. Is it me or did you get a lot of Terry Funk from Steve Williams that promo? Yes, that that that opening laugh especially.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah. Is it the sort of flow and cadence of how he talks? That sort of sarcastic tone really in all the best ways sound like a Terry Funk promo to me. I was trying to think what would thank you for that. trying to think who that reminded me of because that was like, that sounds so familiar and I don't think it's reminding me of an earlier Steve Williams promo.
00:54:48
Speaker
No. So... That's great. That's very much a Terry Funk thing. Yeah, absolutely. I also like hearing just a hint of this Stone Cold Steve Austin swagger, but the way Austin does his short promo as well.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yes. If you heard that and then heard like 1997-98 Stone Cold promo, you would. That's pretty, pretty close. Yeah, if he ended it ended that line with because Stone Cold said so. Yeah, it would not be out of place at all.
00:55:16
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:55:18
Speaker
We actually go back to JR and Jesse at ringside rather than the ring technically. JR builds up the problems Wyndham and Rhodes have had, and Jesse asks how they can be champs in the ring when they don't get along outside.
00:55:30
Speaker
JR throws to Missy Hyatt with Dustin Rhodes and Barry Wyndham in front of a blue curtain. Rhodes has his great shiny jacket now. Rhodes looks serious. Wyndham makes quite weird faces and seems distracted by something above him off camera briefly. Not sure what was going on there. He straightens up after a minute.
00:55:48
Speaker
Thanks, Jim. And the big question is, can you two men put your differences aside to prepare for a team you didn't expect? You know, first of all, the first order of business is to lay all rumors aside, Missy.
00:56:01
Speaker
Now, Dustin and I have no problems. And the second order of business is that Steve Austin is probably one of the greatest competitors in the sport. And I'll guarantee you, Steve Williams couldn't have picked a better partner.
00:56:12
Speaker
Well, I guess all the talking's over. Now, let's go down to the ring for the match. Almost Missy. So close. Weird that Dustin didn't get to talk here. He does briefly kind of look over after Wyndham is done as Missy's wrapping up, but it doesn't seem like he's miffed or anything. So I don't think that he planned to.
00:56:31
Speaker
I think they're sort of playing into the story with them as well. little bit here. That's fair. Kind of makes Wyndham look a little bit more arrogant by doing all the talking maybe. Yeah, I watched a handful of them doing the sort group promos as part the buildup. And there's definitely a lot of Wyndham doing the talking. And I think you have to get the that Roge used to him doing that. just kind like, yep, that's how this works.
00:56:53
Speaker
He's kind of got the ah Michael Hayes in the background of the one Jimmy Garvin promo. Yes. Energy going on there. Absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, this is another short ch promo, but it serves to very nicely cover what they need to cover, that Wyndham and Rhodes are claiming to have worked out their problems, or indeed not to have any, and their reaction to Austin, which was a quite interesting one.
00:57:13
Speaker
I don't know if it's because he's the guy on this team edging towards a heel turn or just because Wyndham knows if you build up your opponent, you look better, but I really like that his reaction to the partner switch was to compliment Dr. Death on his choice.
00:57:24
Speaker
It's kind of an unexpected and cool reaction to a short-notice event. Yeah, I can see that. yeah I could definitely see the whole, oh, you know, well, you maybe had a shot with Gordy there, but now you have no shot because, you know, you have Austin as a new partner.
00:57:36
Speaker
That angle would would make sense. This definitely does feel a little different. Yeah, it was an interesting take. Okay, the point where Wyndham said, putting the rumors to to bed, there's there's no problems between us, or however he actually put it.
00:57:50
Speaker
Was it just me, or did you also immediately flash to Shawn Michaels super-kicking Marty Jannetty? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not quite word for word, but it's very close to that line.
00:58:01
Speaker
Yeah. And actually, they're we are very close together with timeline wise, I believe. I think so. Yeah, I think 92 is when we first get heel Sean Michael. So it might be within few months of each other. Actually, I'll look that up later.
00:58:14
Speaker
That's so funny. Yeah.
00:58:17
Speaker
So our fourth match is Dr. Death Steve Williams and Stunning Steve Austin versus the natural Dustin Rhodes and Barry Windham for Rhodes and Windham's Unified NWA World Tag Team Championship and WSW World Tag Team Championship.
00:58:32
Speaker
The referee for this one is Randy Anderson. So this is a match whose buildup is genuinely confusing thanks to the combination of injuries and tape delay, as well as something else I'll cover a bit later.
00:58:44
Speaker
Uh, run early September. We did a match between the Steiners, the former champions against Gordon Williams. The show seems to end with them actually losing the titles to the Steiners, but then it's a return to the next show.
00:58:56
Speaker
It's not like a true dusty finish where they do it right away. Like the show just ends. We have two champions. Then the next show, they go, Oh, by the way, no, you don't have new champions. That is just the start of the confusion, however.
00:59:07
Speaker
So on the October 3rd episode of WCB Saturday night, which was taped in late September, we're, A pre-recorded hype video is played early on the show, hyping Halloween Havoc.
00:59:18
Speaker
And it mentions a match between the Steiner brothers and the new tag team champions, Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes. That match happens later in the show.
00:59:30
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my gosh. So they spoiled their own title change in their promo package on a pre-taped show. So to be clear, they ran a promo package that built up Steiners are going to face Dustin Rhodes and Barry Windham.
00:59:44
Speaker
But then Rhodes and Windham actually win the titles from the current champions later in the show. Correct. Oh, my gosh. WCW. Never change. Again, this is all pre-taped. So you have full control with the order. This whole thing airs. You could aired that match sooner.
01:00:00
Speaker
Gared that match the week before and then run this promo. But no, someone was just not paying attention. Further complicated matters would be an injury to Rick Steiner that would actually happen around the time that they taped the actual match that then ran out October 3rd.
01:00:16
Speaker
So they're taken out away as challenger for the tag titles. And that's how we get Winderman Rhodes as the replacement challengers. So the match that we get on October 3rd, the Steiner were supposed to be in that match, but Rick Steiner was injured in actual real time before that match took place.
01:00:31
Speaker
Gotcha. So they were a substitute challenger for the tag titles. Okay. So in spite of the fact they knew Rick Steiner was injured and couldn't wrestle, which is why Wyndham Rhodes were put in the tag title match, they then advertised the Steiner's challenging for the tag titles.
01:00:46
Speaker
I guess they thought Rick would be better and they didn't check with anybody because he was not. Wow. So how we eventually get to this match. Or actually, to be more specific, this how we get to Terry Gordy and Dr. Steve Williams in rematch for their own tag titles.
01:01:00
Speaker
However, as the day of the match approached, there was some dissension between Terry Gordy and people at WCW. The point of dissension seems to be that they wanted Gordy and Williams to work some New Japan shows.
01:01:14
Speaker
However, Gordy and Williams are very loyal, all Japan pro wrestling guys. They were very loyal to Giant Baba, who was still running the company and was like the face of it.
01:01:25
Speaker
So basically, they're asking them, hey, could you work for their the bitter rivals of your friend and longtime employer? And shockingly, he said no. Yeah. Tensions just build and build. I imagine losing the tag titles probably didn't help him. Didn't make him feel any better either.
01:01:42
Speaker
Wouldn't make me feel better. So that leads to the day of the show. He just no shows and tell them he's not going to work it. Oh, my gosh. So let's figure this out quickly, boys. Yeah, I knew it was day of the show. I could never quite tell if I no show. They meant the show is starting and he hasn't shown up yet. Or if he actually does still like contact them before it and say, hey, I'm not going to show up.
01:02:03
Speaker
But in either case, it's not a lot of time. Yeah, I couldn't find an exact answer whether he did that or, you know, he could have easily just told Dr. Steve Williams he wasn't going to show up and and Williams tells them. Hell, it's 1992. He probably sent a fax.
01:02:18
Speaker
For Bill Watson sitting down at his desk. Oh, my page is going off. What's this now?
01:02:24
Speaker
That's the 90s tech references. Yeah, yeah. and Send a singing telegram. Oh, yeah. Put your heart into it. Yeah, so we went from the Steiners versus Gordie Williams to Williams and Steve Austin, or also Williams, as mentioned.
01:02:39
Speaker
I get to Wendell Road in the course of about a month. Oh my gosh, that is wild. Okay, so just, yeah, to to make sure that i've I've got this straight in my head again, Gordie and Williams are originally tag champs.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yes. They're gonna face the Steiners. Yes. Yes. But the Steiners get injured. Yes. So then there's an ad on the show for the Steiners versus Windham and Rhodes prior to Windham and Rhodes winning the title off of Williams and Gordy.
01:03:09
Speaker
Yes. And even though WCW knows that one of the signers is injured and won't be able to compete at the future show. So that gets you to Gordy and Williams ending up challenging the people that beat them for the title.
01:03:23
Speaker
Yes. And then Gordy no shows. And so we get Austin slotted in. Correct. Yes. That is the most WCW of WCWing that I can think of.
01:03:35
Speaker
Oh, and just throwing a lot of bonus to that. Yeah, I mentioned the Scott Steiner-Hilton. That's part of how that came about. I think Bill Watts really saw them both as single stars, specifically saw Scott Moore as single star, which is funny because obviously would say we, as we know, Rick started first.
01:03:52
Speaker
Yeah, think and I think it's like both of them don't really want to do that at this point. Correct. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So in the brief period where Rick's injured, he throws a TV title at Scott Steiner, does your your heel and a singles wrestler, and at least him leading the company post-Arcade. Because I might have mentioned he's not on the show anyways.
01:04:10
Speaker
Again, it's just fascinating to see them doing Giel Scott Steiner as champion in 1992. When that's we're used to seeing like 1997 WCW, 98 WCW. Yeah. Obviously through 2000 WCW.
01:04:22
Speaker
It took him a long time to actually be okay with that idea. Exactly. Yes.
01:04:28
Speaker
That was a lot of complicated build up to a tag team match. Yes.
Thrilling Tag Match Chaos and Outcomes
01:04:34
Speaker
Austin and Williams seem quite comfortable and confident as they come out, and Williams even gives Austin a friendly pat on the shoulder. Maybe they bonded over shared Williams-ness. Yeah, sure. Rhodes and Wyndham come out to what will eventually be Wyndham's solo theme.
01:04:47
Speaker
Wyndham's jacket is less shiny than Rhodes, but it's a good red, black, and tan color combo. As we get ready to start, Jesse asks whether the edge is with Williams and Austin due to the surprise of Austin replacing Gordy, or with Wyndham and Rhodes due to Williams and Austin's inexperience as a team.
01:05:03
Speaker
JR says, Randy, don't call me Peewee, Anderson is the ref, and Jesse asks, why not? JR ignores the question entirely. Yes, he does. Rhodes and Williams start.
01:05:15
Speaker
Rhodes can't knock Williams down with his shoulder blocks, but asks for one more, and this time, Williams leapfrogs him and clotheslines him down. Careful, Williams, Barry Windham is in this match, you don't want a repeat of Starrcade 1987. Ooh, no do not.
01:05:28
Speaker
oh no you do not Williams hits a few three-point stance charges, but Rhodes counters the third with a massive clothesline that flattens him and works the arm with a wrist lock and an armbar.
01:05:39
Speaker
Jesse, meanwhile, taunts J.R. about Oklahoma losing to Kansas. Rhodes and Wyndham trade off working Williams' arm with strikes and varied holds. Williams fights back, pulling the hair when necessary, but Jesse notes that he's not attempting to tag Austin and wonders if he's not comfortable with his new partner.
01:05:57
Speaker
Williams reverses holds on Rhodes, and Rhodes, unable to counter a wrist lock, charges the ropes, leaps over, and snaps Williams' arm over them. A Rhodes dropkick sends Williams to his corner and he finally tags Austin.
01:06:08
Speaker
JR points out that Austin and Rhodes know each other well, but Rhodes lets Windham go first. Austin gets some early offense thanks to an eye poke, but Windham and Rhodes pinball him around with punches as Jesse criticizes Windham's take fist, which JR says is from a lingering injury.
01:06:24
Speaker
Is that from last year's door slam? Yes, yes it is. Dang, that is some long-term effect. Mm-hmm. Wyndham plays ah quite subtle, subtle heel in this, like faking Austin out on a test of strength.
01:06:38
Speaker
He doesn't go too overt with it, but you can tell he's kind of like playing that edge. Yeah. Rhodes takes over and Austin repeatedly gets two on rolling him over on a side headlock and wins the sort of rapid series of counters that would be hard if you had more than one day to prep.
01:06:55
Speaker
The crowd seems to be treating both teams as faces right now, cheering both. Rhodes and Wyndham earn two counts with a Rhodes elbow, Rhodes flying lariat, Wyndham flying lariat, and Wyndham beautiful vertical suplex.
01:07:08
Speaker
The form on that is amazing. Austin breaks the eyes and tags Williams, and Wyndham holds his own until Williams ducks a flying lariat, and Wyndham bounces and falls out under the ropes in a quite Dustin Rhodes style.
01:07:19
Speaker
You can tell they've been tagging. Yeah, he didn't he didn't get the distance that Rhodes does, but that's a hard hard thing to do for anybody. Yeah, but he at least gets the land bounce fallout. He does, yes.
01:07:32
Speaker
Williams drop kicks him back down when he tries to get in, and Wyndham grabs the ring apron on the way down, presumably not wanting to take a second hard fall on the concrete in under 10 seconds. Fair enough. Williams and Austin trade off wearing Wyndham down, earning two counts with an Austin second rope elbow drop, Austin suplex, Williams crossbody, Austin leverage off a hammerlock with the tights, and Williams powerslam.
01:07:55
Speaker
Wyndham stuns Williams with a drawbreaker, and we get a deeply unpleasant shot of Williams spewing out snot. Yeah. All the things that WSW misses with their camera work, and they have to catch that perfectly.
01:08:10
Speaker
Williams tags Austin, but Wyndham fights out of a superplex attempt and hits a top rope diving lariat for two. Austin goes for a clothesline and both go down, and Wyndham goes for Rhodes, tagging him even as he collapses from Austin grabbing his leg.
01:08:24
Speaker
Wyndham is amazing at tags like that. He is, yeah. I think part of it is he's so tall. Mm-hmm, yeah. He's able to like know for sure he's going to have the distance. Yeah. Yeah. rhodes runs wild on austin and williams with punches and elbows and hits the bulldog on austin for two as william says wyndham fights williams but anderson sents him out and while he's doing that rhoads leap frogs austin but eat's a massive williams clothesline turninging two for austin Austin and Williams trade off beating Rhodes up, including a Williams-Boston crab, an Austin knee strike for two, and a neat elevated backhold by Austin that's kind of a one-shoulder version of the torture back?
01:09:02
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. See that. Wyndham hits Austin to free Rhodes, who trades rapid pin attempts for two counts with Austin as 10 minutes remain. JR and Jesse discuss the change in the match.
01:09:12
Speaker
Now Williams and Austin are tagging more frequently and their teamwork has improved. Rhodes fires up and lands several strikes going for the bionic elbow, but Austin decks him mid-windup to mixed cheers and boos for two.
01:09:26
Speaker
He's caught grabbing the ropes there. More two counts off a Williams snap suplex, Rhodes' inside cradle, Williams' double arm bar suplex, and Williams' belly-to-belly suplex.
01:09:37
Speaker
Five minutes left, and Williams grabs a sleeper, but Rhodes keeps the arm up on the third check. Jesse jokes that Rhodes, as a Texan, doesn't need that much blood flow to the brain. Aw. Austin and Williams continue the beating and keep Rhodes away from Wyndham, but Jesse notes that Rhodes knows that time is short, and he so he just has to hold on.
01:09:56
Speaker
Rhodes manages a tag, but Anderson had to run over to stop Williams from getting in, so he misses it and tries to get Wyndham to leave. Behind his back, Williams and Austin throw Rhodes over the top rope.
01:10:08
Speaker
Wyndham disposes of Williams and slams Austin, but he hits Anderson in the process, sending him spilling out of the ring on top of Rhodes, who by now has to be wondering why everyone else is getting to do his gimmick of wildly falling out of the ring.
01:10:21
Speaker
Wyndham rolls Austin up as Nick Patrick runs down to check on Anderson, but Williams clotheslines Wyndham to reverse the pin, and Patrick counts three. Austin wins! Or not, as Anderson quickly signals the match is not over as Wyndham was not the legal man.
01:10:38
Speaker
Which is correct, but only because Anderson missed the tag that would have made him the legal man earlier. No, there you go It's hilarious that a correct call is correct only because of an earlier error. Yeah, that's true.
01:10:50
Speaker
Rhodes charges in and rolls up a celebrating Austin for two, then rapidly earns several more two-counts with strikes, a flying lariat, a strike combo, and a reversal of a tombstone piledriver into his own until time runs out.
01:11:03
Speaker
It's a time limit draw, so Rhodes and Wyndham retain. Wyndham checks on an exhausted Rhodes. The crowd boos the time limit, but cheers Wyndham and Rhodes retaining the title. JR says you have to make the right call, and Anderson made the right call, which is true, though it's the right call, only because he made the wrong call when he missed Wyndham's tag.
01:11:22
Speaker
Jesse says Patrick's call should have stood. Thoughts on this one? I thought I liked this match pretty well. thought it was a good, strong back-and-forth match. Credit record is due. They put together at least one quarter of a match they couldn't have known until again, the day of or the day before.
01:11:39
Speaker
Yeah. They might have suspected he wasn't going to show up, but that's still not a lot of time to put together ah match. Yeah. Yeah. Especially because Austin, well, Austin has done tag matches. Obviously we saw him.
01:11:50
Speaker
Circuit 91 and he was part of dangerous Alliance that would never really his forte. Obviously it would become his forte for quite a while after this. But it's definitely a good pick here because you have someone who is really used to working with Dustin Rhodes.
01:12:06
Speaker
Yes. He's not used to tagging match against Dustin Rhodes. If they can just work a singles match in the middle of his tag match, it'd be OK. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Like Austin is possibly the best possible person they could have picked for this match.
01:12:19
Speaker
hmm. As you said, he has such experience with Dustin Rhodes, they have had a long-running feud even at this point. Mm-hmm. So I don't know his experience with Barry Windham necessarily, but with Rhodes, they can probably put something together in their sleep between the two of them.
01:12:33
Speaker
Yeah. I was worried about this one reading the results before seeing it because i know we were split a bit on the Gordon Williams versus Steiner's match where they wrestled to a 30 minute draw.
01:12:45
Speaker
It's the same show where you have an actual the Iron Man match with Rick Steamboat and Rick Rue, which is so good going to 30 minutes by design. And then you have a second match also going 30 minutes, but not by design.
01:12:56
Speaker
Weird booking choice. My issue with that match was, and and obviously don't necessarily disagree on this, but I felt they worked that match based on the idea that we're going to work 30 minutes. So let's work these long holds. Let's work these sort of positions.
01:13:10
Speaker
This match, the whole time it felt like both teams are constantly trying to get a pinfall and win the match. They're not working like they they know they have to go through with no finish. They're working like this match can end any point to let you know in character obviously constant near falls striking going for pins everything.
01:13:29
Speaker
Yeah. So while the other match isn't bad this is what I was hoping that match would be like as far as the internal pacing that makes sense. Gotcha. Yeah. which Which is like, it's especially impressive for this match, right? Because again, this match above any match would probably have an excuse for being like, hey, let's just do a bunch of long holds and get to that time limit. Yeah, exactly.
01:13:49
Speaker
But they they somehow managed to come up with a 30 minute time limit draw match that feels like they're going at it constantly. When they had, as you said, like about one day to prepare at least a quarter of the match.
01:14:03
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Just incredible to think of that. There's also a couple of nice touches here. Again, we had Wyndham and Rhodes versus Gordie and Williams match. There's some nice callbacks in variation from that match, which I watched on MTV Saturday night.
01:14:19
Speaker
So like, for instance, the way Wyndham and Rhodes won the tag titles is there's a big chaos middle the ring. While it's happening, Rhodes hits a bulldog on Gordie while he's not legal man and then rolls out with Williams and thus Wyndham then pins Gordie.
01:14:34
Speaker
So that's why the spot where Rhodes hits the Bulldog and Austin and then it's broken up by Williams is a callback to that spot. Gotcha. Yeah. So it's a good like I'm watching for that. Exactly. Yeah. Something that is a nice thing to see was again with a match that they had so much trouble getting to.
01:14:49
Speaker
My only issue with this match is just how complicated they made the ending of it. I understand. Again, we talked about how convoluted the booking was to get here and maybe they were generally were not sure where they wanted to go.
01:15:01
Speaker
Do you want to throw the titles on to, you know, Austin and William, see what happens? Or do you want to stick with the champions? But they like have a false finish and then they work to a time withdrawal.
01:15:11
Speaker
It's a lot of things going on here. Two refs. It doesn't really ruin the ending because it's still a really good match, but it messes with the crowd a bit because they get a false finish. And then match restart, you think, OK, you know, we're going to finish.
01:15:25
Speaker
But then they work that false finish, fake out and restart to a non finish. Yeah, that's fair. It's a little complicated. I think the thing that gets me about it that that I was like, wait a second, when we were watching on the show was that while the referees are arguing, the onscreen timer is still counting down. I'm like, no, no, no, no. You should pause this until they figure out if the match can be on That's fair. Yeah.
01:15:47
Speaker
Yeah. But I agree with you on the ending being a bit confusingly booked. I can see it as interesting in one respect that kind of gives you a trial run of, hey, how notable can we make Austin?
01:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, sure. He gets to have a pinfall win effectively on one of the two tag champs. I can kind of see it as like maybe they're thinking of it as an experiment. Well, since we have this situation, inability, this is theorizing based on like the idea that that wasn't going to be a spot when it was Williams and Gordy. But sure.
01:16:19
Speaker
I could see that being an interesting trial run of like, hey, if we put Austin in the tag scene, will it work? But yeah, I think I generally agree on the ending of that they could have made that a little less complicated.
01:16:32
Speaker
hmm. Otherwise, this was a tremendous match for me. Yeah. Wyndham, Rhodes, Austin, and Williams put on a great show with a terrific storyline of Wyndham and Rhodes having the early advantage until Austin and Williams figured out how to work together and get some double teams and quick tags going, making great use of the storyline that they were basically forced into.
01:16:51
Speaker
Yeah. Austin was a great pick to bring in for this, as Rose in particular is very familiar with working with him, so he could get something together without a problem. But I'm still really impressed with how smoothly this all works.
01:17:04
Speaker
If they hadn't mentioned Gordy originally being planned for this match on the show, I don't think I would have spotted it. Yeah. As this entirely feels like it was originally meant to have Austin in there.
01:17:14
Speaker
Credit to all four guys for that. And let's just appreciate, again, the scale of this accomplishment. This is not just any tag match. It's a 30 minute time limit draw with fast action the whole way through, genuine plot and characterization, and not one but two face in peril sequences and a quite complicated ending, possibly too complicated.
01:17:32
Speaker
Basically, none of which would be easy when one of the guys involved in the match was not scheduled to be involved in the match until like that day. Exactly. Yes. Lots of great little nuances here from Rhodes and Williams football face off early on to Wyndham's little hints of heelishness to the little ways that Austin whit and Williams cut off the ring and kept control to that bit where Austin uses the delay for the bionic elbow showmanship to nail Dustin to one of the smoothest ref bumps off an accidental collision that I've ever seen.
01:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. The only complaint is that this is a time limit draw, really, and that's minor here as they even fight hard all the way to the end, making Rhodes, who could just stall for the time limit but keeps going for pins, look like one heck of a fighting champion in those final moments.
01:18:14
Speaker
It's a great match, even without considering that it wasn't the match that was planned. With that in consideration, it's incredible. That's fair, yeah. can see that.
01:18:23
Speaker
Well, the I guess you still call them successful, you know, complicated. The ending was duo of Winneman Road would lose the tag titles of the next show, which is the Clash of Champions. I believe it is Clash of Champions 20, maybe 21, perhaps. like I have written so many times my notes. I lost track, which number I'm on.
01:18:40
Speaker
I get the feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Anywho. Yeah. They would lose them to the, I guess, new tag team of Shane Douglas and Ricky Steamboat. Nice. We are two for two, by the way, in years of Ricky Steamboat as a surprise tag partner, because last year he returned to the company and won the tag titles.
01:18:58
Speaker
That's funny. So you've got a history with this. As part of story of that match, there'd be a bit where Ricky Steamboat was injured and... Dustin didn't go out and you attack him more on the floor, you know, Thurman Barricade.
01:19:11
Speaker
So when they lost the titles, Wyndham took that as a sign of weakness. And that's why they lost the titles. that's the attacks. Dustin Rhodes. So that team is over. Saw that one coming. Yeah, that makes more sense, though because I was at first like, hmm, that's that's odd that they lose the title to another face team. But then Wyndham is no longer a face at that point. So he's kind of playing heel for the match, I imagine.
01:19:32
Speaker
Yes, exactly. A rematch of the tag titles would occur with a slight wrinkle. It is the team of Ricky Steamboat and Shane Douglas as champions against the team of Barry Windham and Brian
Paul Heyman and Medusa Storyline
01:19:44
Speaker
Pillman.
01:19:44
Speaker
Okay, cool. He was aligned together determine the titles. So Windham works with Pillman as a replacement for his partner after facing off against a team that involves Austin as a replacement for a partner.
01:19:58
Speaker
Correct. So the the Hollywood Blondes are your replacement tag guys. That's true, yeah. That's interesting how that works out, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
01:20:09
Speaker
JR throws to Tony, who is with Vader, Harley Race, and Paul E. Dangerously. I'm going to take a little bit of a different tack from my usual with this promo segment because it goes pretty far with its presentation. And I do think that though it's clearly in character on all parts and clearly is supposed to make you hate Paul, it could make some listeners uncomfortable to actually hear.
01:20:29
Speaker
That's fair, yeah. Obviously, it's available out on the actual show on Peacock, but I'll just summarize here. Tony says that Rick Rude has retained his title thanks to Vader. Paul brags that it was all his idea and he paid half the winner's purse to race, half the winner's purse to Vader.
01:20:44
Speaker
It's unclear if he means one half of that went to the two of them or if he's given up the entire purse, half to each. Yeah. Paul says he's the reason for Rude's success, but Medusa shows up, shoves him out of the way, and thanks Race and Vader for their help in helping her and Rude win the heavyweight title.
01:21:01
Speaker
Race looks politely on, and Vader shakes her hand, but Paul says he has had it with her, and goes on a very misogynistic rant about how he's smarter, stronger, and superior to her because he's a man and she's a woman, outright saying that makes her subservient and stupid.
01:21:17
Speaker
As Race and Vader look deeply uncomfortable and withdraw behind Tony, who gives the camera can-you-believe-this kind of look. Medusa gets increasingly upset, looking close to tears, as Paul continues insulting her and calling her something I'm not going to repeat, and fires her.
01:21:34
Speaker
He calls her entire gender stupid again and shoves her, which is when she hits a beautiful and very satisfying roundhouse kick to his head, knocking him flat, then lays in punches and vicious kicks, really going for it.
01:21:47
Speaker
Vader and Harley Race quietly make their exit, leaving her to it.
01:21:53
Speaker
Doug Dellinger, referees, security, and officials separate the two and have to restrain both. As they're dragged away, Paul gets free and grabs a microphone and says he could beat her with one hand tied behind his back and challenges her to come get him, then runs the hell away as she gets free and goes after him.
01:22:08
Speaker
Even without a microphone, you can hear Medusa yelling, I hate you, at Paul over the roaring crowd. Yeah. We cut to Jesse and JR, and Jesse is enthused at the action. JR wonders how Rick Roode is going to react when Medusa isn't there.
01:22:22
Speaker
Jesse wonders if Paul will bring in someone else, but obviously there's not going to be any reconciliation. JR goes over Medusa's intense martial arts training and expertise, but notes that Paul says he can beat her with one hand time behind his back.
01:22:35
Speaker
Jesse says it's like Paul says, she's a woman. JR notes she's a very tough woman, and we haven't heard the last of this. He says it's time to spin the wheel, and we will make a deal.
01:22:48
Speaker
But first, first off, Paul and Jesse here are obviously playing misogynistic heel characters, not to the best of my knowledge, expressing any of their actual opinions regarding gender. Let's be very clear on that, that this is an in-character thing.
01:23:02
Speaker
Correct. Wrestling is always a kind of dangerous ground for this type of thing because of the blurring of reality and fiction. Yeah. But let's just be very clear on that. This is a fully character segment.
01:23:13
Speaker
Yes. With that in mind, this segment does exactly what it set out to do, which is make Paul an even more easily hated villain who isn't just greedy but also a misogynist, and then give Medusa an instant breakout hero moment by having her kick him super hard in the head and lay in a massive beatdown.
01:23:28
Speaker
The segment works. It really works for making you want to see Medusa destroy him and then giving you exactly what you want. At the same time, I'm not quite sure it had to go as far as it did.
01:23:39
Speaker
It's not any worse than you hear in some Hollywood films with similar themes, but honestly, some of those can get a bit tough to watch at times too. And this did get a little tough to watch for me. I wonder if they could have gotten the same level of reaction by just making it a personal problem between Paul and Medusa without active misogyny.
01:23:55
Speaker
But at the same time, I could see them worrying that because they've both been heels, that wouldn't be enough to make it clear which of them the crowd should cheer. Yeah. And this segment definitely makes that cheer as the crowd erupted for Medusa kicking Paul's head into the nosebleed seats.
01:24:08
Speaker
Yes. I feel like this probably could have been toned out at least a bit, but I can't deny it was highly effective at immediately starting a heated emotional storyline for Medusa. Mm-hmm. Also, it's one of the only times in WCW that you'll see Vader and Harley race slowly back away like they want no part of something.
01:24:25
Speaker
Yeah. Seeing the wait, what? Look on Vader's face is pretty funny. Yeah. And the two just walking off when Paul is getting his butt kicked, let you know which side they think is right in this situation.
01:24:37
Speaker
Paul is such an awful person that even the mega heels aren't willing to side with him. I would have liked if they kept that going with Jesse, if he did the same reaction in that part of the segment, instead of slightly agreeing Paul, because he'll stick together.
01:24:49
Speaker
It would have made the Paulie Dangerously character a full pariah, and that'd be kind of interesting. I can see that for sure, yeah. Yeah, from my book, effective, but maybe ah just a bit much. Yeah, for better for worse, Pauly Dangerously slash Paul Heyman, the idea of here's this line where you don't cross and let's cross it and let's get a big reaction.
01:25:09
Speaker
Hope for the best. Hope, you know, we don't lose sponsors or offend people. That's kind of his thing. That is true. That's true. Not defending or attacking it. That's just kind of how he he works. Yeah.
01:25:19
Speaker
and And also, to be clear, like, from everything I understand, Paul Heyman was a big fan of Medusa and really wanted her to have, like, a big moment. Yeah. And be a big star. So this is his attempt here to be a mega heel for her to kick the butt of, basically.
01:25:36
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. My only issue is that this is all building up to a later show's events. Yes. I would be nice if there was something else going on between them, because as we see, there's not really follow up on this show for what happens, at least following the two of them civically.
01:25:53
Speaker
So it's weird. is like this big chaotic event happens and then like, and anyways, let's move on. Oh, no, next show we'll talk about it. fact, genuinely later on this show, it kind of feels like this segment gets almost ignored.
01:26:04
Speaker
a certain an extent. Yeah. Which is deeply strange. Yeah.
01:26:09
Speaker
Well, before we get to the next actual show segment, which will be Sting coming out to spin that wheel and make the deal, WCW built this part up in a very special, very stupid way, right?
01:26:19
Speaker
They did, yes. The main event, as it were, of the previous Clash of Champions, that's Clash of Champions 20. Okay. So i get a i see yeah, 21 is the next show. I mentioned that, but removed that note because we're going to celebrate 20 years of wrestling, and we're going to end the show with this. Yeah.
01:26:39
Speaker
They've been building up to a match between Sting and Degra, which they'll get do more of the actual match.
Mini-Movie Build-Up for Sting vs. Roberts
01:26:44
Speaker
However, they decided, let's do a little vignette, a little mini movie. These little scenes the future always worked out for them and definitely weren't being made fun of constantly by people at the time. And then 30 years later by us.
01:26:57
Speaker
We get a long shot of a cliche smoke filled bar, a door you walk up to and you have this you special knock and a password. They pull the latch open and look at you.
01:27:09
Speaker
In fact, in the bar, we see Cheatham long before he learned to make bombs and tried to kill Sting and David Boy, and the British Bulldog, on a beach. Presumably, like, he found the bomb maker here to learn from, I guess.
01:27:21
Speaker
Yeah. Also, sort of muddying to your point. I didn't iron in that water, but it's just funny how it is for us. But in the point of that last segment, the lady going to the bar is also Medusa.
01:27:32
Speaker
Oh, it is. Yeah, it's Medusa. Wow. I genuinely didn't recognize her. Yeah, they sort of, guess for lack of it, were the 80s her hair up, you know, like 80s hair metal kind of groupie thing. Yeah, yeah.
01:27:44
Speaker
She knocks the door and she says to spin that we'll make the deal thing. Apparently that's why she's there. We also cut in reaction shots to Hannibal Lecter. Because that's thing that happens in this video as well.
01:27:56
Speaker
Because, you know, 1991 is Sansa Lamb. 1992, let's just have random guy wearing this, literally wearing the mask and strapped to a board. Yeah. Just looking around, reacting to scenes in this.
01:28:07
Speaker
It's so strange. Like the the theme of this bar is all over the place. Yeah. I really hope that Turner and the affiliate companies own the rights of those characters.
01:28:18
Speaker
ah Otherwise, they really stirred that line between parody. i mean, this is the same company that did Arachnoman one year prior or so. That is true. I don't think they get away with, oh, oh we're doing a satire, because they're not doing like a funny version of it.
01:28:32
Speaker
No. It's not like the the famous bit from the Oscars, with Billy Crystal being wheeled out in the thing, open the show, you know, ha-ha, that's the thing of the movie. They're just doing it. we need We need someone else for this bar who's evil.
01:28:44
Speaker
Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, he's here. Sure, why not?
01:28:48
Speaker
all this talk in me to random shots of Jake Roberts sort of looking around at things. You see the wheel. ands and The door is kicked open and apparently the sun exp exploded behind him because super bright spotlights are running behind Sting as he walks through the door.
01:29:03
Speaker
it's see it's He is silhouetted by like heavenly light. It's yeah the most blatant, this is the good guy! Law! Yeah. They couldn't give him a white hat to wear, but this is the best they could do.
01:29:15
Speaker
Yeah. He shows up wearing a very orange outfit. He has, I think it's orange and blue face paint and a matching orange jacket. It's funny because it's like, this is gritty and real, but I'm still going to put on my face paint and wear my matching colors.
01:29:27
Speaker
This just is how Sting goes to dive bars. You know, I can't just prove that. Me neither. I didn't think of this until now, but this is very much like the atmosphere of this scene. When the door is kicked in, you expect Pro Sting to walk in.
01:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, see that. But you get Surfer Sting. Yeah, it's very similar to, if you know, the famous biker bar scene from Who's Big Adventure. Yeah. Is that kind of sort of CD bar vibe?
01:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, just to note, so this entire thing is like five minutes long. Yeah. It's about two full minutes of this random nonsense before Sting shows up, centering on Medusa, going around and not actually pulling the lever, but repeatedly acting like she's going to pull the lever to this big wheel.
01:30:09
Speaker
See, caressing the yeah little handle, yeah. And then Cheatham, the evil little person, showing her various bladed weapons for some reason, and Jake like expressing an opinion on them. Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:20
Speaker
it's It's so bizarre. They could have done all that they needed to do here in like 30 seconds tops. Yeah. When Dick Roberts is in close-up shot somewhere else.
01:30:30
Speaker
Yeah. So it's it's like they just cut in reaction shots of him. Like, yeah, we're film five minutes, just react, and and we'll put it in somewhere later throughout the video. It's very much the Steven Seagal, I'm in shadows shot. Yeah, yeah, very much so.
01:30:41
Speaker
I also I love the cheesy reactions when Sting does show up, especially Cheatham's, who clearly reacts like someone pointed a camera at him and told him shocked face on three and then started filming at two.
01:30:52
Speaker
Yeah. Sting, I knew you'd come. It was just a matter of time. Yeah, I'm here. So what's the deal? <unk> I'm going to finish what I started in Baltimore. When I get done with you, you wish never.
01:31:14
Speaker
You talk too much. Get to the point. What's the deal? Sting, relax. What's your hurry? I'm gonna take my time and enjoy this moment.
01:31:26
Speaker
Cut the crap! Do I have to come over there and kick your... Sting, you don't get it, do you, man? You don't have a clue. Look around you. This is my playground.
01:31:37
Speaker
These are my people. I'm smiling, not you. It's come down to this. You see, the deal is on the wheel. In Halloween Havoc, your worst nightmare come true.
01:31:49
Speaker
Twelve of the toughest and most brutal matches in wrestling. That's right. That's right. Brutal. Brutal. You see, on the wheel, there's a cage man. There's a barbed wire match. There's a death match.
01:32:05
Speaker
Or there might even be a mystery match. But you see, the deal is, man, you've got to step up and spin that wheel. Once you spin it, where it stops, that's what you and are going to do. And what happens? Well, we both go in the ring.
01:32:22
Speaker
One man comes out. The other? Well... no You think I'm afraid of some wheel?
01:32:33
Speaker
You think I'm afraid of you? Step out the fog, Steve. Clear your head. You're not thinking. I'm the master of all these matches. This is no game for me. This is fun, but it's not a game. We play it on my turf and my terms. So good luck, Steve. You're gonna need it. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. what are you waiting for? Let's do it now. To be continued.
01:33:04
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I love it so much. Havoc 92.
01:33:15
Speaker
are oh to be continued oh my gosh i love so much havoc ninety two
01:33:31
Speaker
and Al, do you want to tell the people what that ah that last sound effect was? Sure, sure. Yeah, so we get all this build-up to Sting and Roberts. They finally come face-to-face, and then not in separate shots.
01:33:42
Speaker
They walk each other, standing with the wheel in the background. And then they cut to a freeze-frame shot of them, where they added in post lasers shooting from their eyes at each other, which causes a big explosion. Has to be continued at Halloween Havoc 92.
01:33:59
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I'd love they like just picturing them coming up with that ending. Yeah. How the hell do we end the video guys? We can't show the wheel stop. We want that for the actual show. Ah, hell just have lasers shoot out their eyes and cause an explosion. Whatever.
01:34:13
Speaker
Like lunch is here. I'm, I want to eat it. So what's we're after doing lasers? Yeah. That lasers. That's it. Yeah. I mean, i I'm no video editor, obviously, but the ending seems pretty easy to do, right?
01:34:25
Speaker
So they start the actual wheel spin. They don't show the result, obviously. Have them spin the wheel, walk up to each other, you know, face off, and then just do a slow pan or a quick pan. I would do it slow pan to the background of the shot.
01:34:38
Speaker
We see the wheel spinning. You see the matches go by and then to be continued. Yeah, just fade out to be continued. Yeah. Yeah. We don't need laser eyes. I say this all the time. We don't need laser eyes.
01:34:50
Speaker
I say this all the time. We do need laser eyes. But that's true. you do say that.
01:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's also weird. Like, OK, so let's analyze the story of this segment for a moment. sure So Sting has come in and been like, hey, Jake, what's the deal? And Jake's like, hey, spin that wheel. And Sting's like, OK, I'll do it.
01:35:07
Speaker
And he goes over and spins the wheel. And apparently that means nothing because he's just going to have to come out on this show and actually spin the wheel. Yeah. So why did they have him do it there? Why do they have that as part of the thing?
01:35:19
Speaker
Other than that, they've spent an enormous amount of money on this big, stupid wheel and want to show it spinning more than once. I think what happened is the explosion from the laser eyes knocked over the wheel.
01:35:31
Speaker
Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. There's a really awkward ending where after the explosion clears, they look. Oh, sorry. Wheel is knocked over. ah dang it. Well, I can't put it back up now. I guess let's skip it cross country to the next show.
01:35:44
Speaker
Jake's like, ja like thing i've who sorry, we broke it. It's really embarrassing. You know, it's really embarrassing, but um i'll I'll get it fixed up. I'll ship it into town for time of the show. It'll be fine. I'll just just see this see you later, man. Okay? Yeah, yeah. We're cool. Yeah, yeah.
01:35:58
Speaker
Maybe be for poker next Tuesday? Oh, yeah, sure.
01:36:03
Speaker
So there's so much stupid and ridiculous in this. But Dick Roberts, to his credit, was and as far as know, is a really good promo. yeah Yeah. He has the intensity, even even if it's weird, like, he tries to work around saying the two miniature one man leaves bit and just goes in. Other man, no.
01:36:20
Speaker
i don't I don't love that livery, but I kind of like it. One compliment I will give is I love that they cut the music for the no. Yeah, that's true. that's that's It was a good emphasis moment that I liked. I don't know why our music was random drumming to begin with, but it's cool that that like cuts out there.
01:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, it was weird, like 1930s jungle drum sound effects. Yes, yes. It's like Tarzan being chased by natives, for lack of better word, in one of those bits.
01:36:46
Speaker
Yeah. That's how you do those. That's probably stock music number 27 in the eternal library, which is why it's there. Yeah. but I agree. like it's It's standard Jake Roberts quiet intimidation. It's really natural.
01:36:58
Speaker
It's definitely him doing the best he can with a very silly concept. Yeah. One thing I i really liked that he called out on it was him claiming he's the master of every match that's on the wheel, making it clear that this is set up as a gamble, but it's not one Sting can actually win.
01:37:12
Speaker
Yeah. So it's very much in the Roberts, I've tilted everything in my favor kind of playbook. You want to play 21, I play 22. Yeah, the the better version of that, I guess. Yes, yes. It's definitely better show than that show.
01:37:25
Speaker
Yeah. If you know, you know. Oh, and and yet the the crowd. Yeah. Why did they react to everything going, ooh, like they're middle schoolers watching an argument in the cafeteria? Yeah, it's it's like it's the sitcom audience reaction to news.
01:37:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yes.
01:37:42
Speaker
It just clashes so much with like the atmosphere they're trying to set up and Jake's intimidating tone. This tattooed lady, this dangerous wheel, cheating with his eye patch. and Literal Hannibal Lecter. Little Hannibal Lecter is there as well, yes.
01:37:55
Speaker
I guess he got caught somewhere in Central America and shipped over here. Yeah. And then, ooh. Oh, Tommy just did a sick burn on Stevie. like Okay.
01:38:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's not quite as unhinged as Cheatham literally trying to murder Sting with a bomb on a boat, but yeah but it's pretty stupid. Enjoyably so. Oh, yeah. I think I would have been so annoyed at WCW for doing these in the time, but I am so glad that WCW did these incredibly stupid mini-movies now.
01:38:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um percent 100%. They're such a joy to watch. Yeah.
01:38:31
Speaker
Speaking of stupid, the actual spin-the-wheel-make-the-deal segment. Ring announcer Capetta announces that it's time for the first step leading to the non-sanctioned lights out match later, which is where Alan and I got very confused on our first watch as we thought he was declaring this specific match gimmick before it had been spun, which is what things going to be spinning for.
01:38:49
Speaker
Exactly. Sting comes out in his tremendous blue and white coat. It's really excellent. Yeah. And watches, trying to look intimidated, as WCW's beautifully stupid wheel slowly rises from the stage.
01:39:02
Speaker
It's topped by a skull with eyes that flicker with spooky lighting. Then the Halloween Havoc logo, which kind of puts doubt on the whole unsanctioned thing. Yeah. And then a wheel shaped like a giant circular saw blade with the names of matches written on various wedges and adorned with scythe and axe blades as well because one giant blade wasn't enough.
01:39:19
Speaker
Yeah. Then there's finally a big snake-themed base. Mm-hmm. So in storyline, did Jake actually design this thing? I mean, I would have to think so, yeah. He did have an unhealthy Blade obsession in that mini-movie.
01:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Predictably, Jesse references Wheel of Fortune inside of 20 seconds of the wheel appearing. Yeah. A stagehand has to run out on camera and plug a big lever on the stage into the wheel so that the thing will work.
01:39:45
Speaker
Yeah. I can't believe that WCW didn't work out a way to just have that hooked up to begin with. Yeah. Or, you know, just fake it. Yeah, right? JR says that Sting has been thinking about each of the options on the wheel for many weeks, and Jesse says that won't do him any good because he doesn't know what he'll spin.
01:40:02
Speaker
Well, Jesse, if he had been planning for every possibility, that would do him good, wouldn't it? Yeah, yeah. Tony comes out and says they're at the moment they've been waiting for. Sting, it's time to spin the wheel.
01:40:15
Speaker
Make the deal. The camera zooms in on Tony for some reason, and he gives it the look only one who knows he's contractually obligated to participate in absolute BS can give. Mm-hmm.
01:40:26
Speaker
And gestures at the wheel like, dummy, that's the whole point of this segment. Don't film me. Yeah, it's true. Sting comes over and pulls the lever and the wheel starts spinning. And keeps spinning.
01:40:37
Speaker
And keeps spinning. Fireworks go off to try to make it seem interesting. Poor Sting has to stand there while the thing slowly, slowly comes to a stop. Guys, maybe have him, I don't know, cut a promo during all the setup and spinning so that it's less boring?
01:40:52
Speaker
Well, no, the s spinning wheel is what they're paying to see, Bob. Yes, yeah, but you could still have him like talking off camera. The wheel can be the visual. No, the wheel is more important. don't know who this Sting guy is, but the wheel is, we spend as much money on this wheel as we paid Sting for this show.
01:41:07
Speaker
They are equal partners here. it finally stops on Coal Miner's glove. Sting tries to make it look like he's excited by that and completely misses Tony asking for a comment and walks off.
01:41:18
Speaker
so tony So Tony just awkwardly says, he's ready. Back to JR and Jesse, and Jesse helpfully explains what a Coal Miner's glove match is. There's a pole with a glove on the top, and there's hardened steel in the glove, and if you climb and get the glove, you can use it as a weapon.
01:41:33
Speaker
He says one punch will be enough to knock someone out. I'll just have Medusa come out and kick them instead. That'd do it. Yeah, that's true. JR notes that there's two refs for this next match between Roode and Shono and notes the presence of senior ref Ole Anderson throwing to Kipeta to find out what that was about.
01:41:48
Speaker
You know, I will say I was tempted to do research. I was tempted to try and look up the history of Kohlmeier's glove matches. And then I didn't feel like it. From what I understand, it's a match that Bill Watts was fond of from earlier territory stuff, and he wanted to bring it in.
01:42:04
Speaker
Gotcha. Gotcha. WCW somehow managed to make a segment with a giant saw blade wheel of fortune dull. Yeah. I can't imagine the amount of money that WCW blew on this segment for basically no emotional impact whatsoever.
01:42:18
Speaker
Yeah. They could have had Sting draw a match out of a hat for far less money and probably more interest, but that wouldn't have ripped off Mad Max. And that seems to be WCW's guiding principle for this series. Yeah. Yeah.
01:42:29
Speaker
Mad Max isn't even a Halloween film. They know that, right? Yes. ah i Yeah. Well, so the film they're they're ripping off so much. Beyond Thunderdome. Yes. It's about eight years old at this point, if I had my math right. I think it's 84 is that movie.
01:42:42
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, it still puts it in the nearer tier of wrestling pop culture references, though. That's true. Yes. By the way, there's a disagreement between WCW performers on whether the wheel was gimmicked to force it to stop.
01:42:55
Speaker
Jake Roberts, on one of his Snake Pit shows, says it wasn't, but on another version of it, he says he was told it wasn't, but seems to imply that he doubted that. Tony, on What Happened When, explicitly says that it was gimmicked and the match type was picked by Watts and Dusty Rhodes.
01:43:10
Speaker
And from the way the wheel ends up stopping, I think it looks pretty gimmicked, personally. Yeah. it kind of, like, keeps spinning and then quite suddenly comes to a halt. It does, yeah. It narrowly misses hitting another match as well.
01:43:21
Speaker
Yes. Just goes past it to cool on his glove. Either way, Jake is pretty clear that he was not enthused by the choice of match and was convinced that he couldn't climb the pole. Jake also said he was not told what type of match he'd be having until the wheel spun it, which would be weird but is plausible for WCW.
01:43:38
Speaker
That does track, yes. It would also explain why Sting just ran off right at the end there, if he had to go and meet Jake to plan right away. That's true, we yeah. I think it's one hour exactly from this segment's ending to their match.
01:43:51
Speaker
Gotcha. So not a huge amount of time. And obviously, as proven by Rhodes-Windham versus Williams-Austin, experienced guys totally can plan out an intricate wrestling match with big spots on quite short notice. True, yeah. So they might have figured like, okay, these guys can probably do it.
01:44:05
Speaker
Or maybe that they'd have like a general plan and then like work out how to bring in the gimmick to it. Yeah, I will say based on things I've read and I'll go over a bit later, i think Bill Watts was less interested in what Jake Roberts felt.
01:44:19
Speaker
Yes. Then other promoters
NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
01:44:21
Speaker
might be. So that's also a factor. Yeah, that is. I'm sure. Oh, darn. He's upset. Whoop-de-doo. Thoughts on the segment? Any? I love the grand entrance. I love the pageantry.
01:44:33
Speaker
I love the stagehand walking into and the shot to plug in the lever.
01:44:39
Speaker
Oh my gosh. They've got all this drama and then just like, oh, it's not plugged in. Quick, quick, get out there. It's like a show I watch is a great show from the UK called The Goes Wrong Show, where they're doing like serious plays. And and as you can guess the title, things constantly go wrong.
01:44:54
Speaker
And a recurring bid they love to do is like a stagehand walks into a shot or like a wall will fall down and you just caught standing there. So that was going to be flashbacks that the poor stagehand just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
01:45:07
Speaker
That's great. And we discussed it, too. Like, I get the idea that so they some reason they had this big entrance where the wheel where it's raised up to the floor like it's, you know, the brood coming up. So that's why it's not plugged in.
01:45:19
Speaker
And I get you stagehand, but couldn't you, like, dress a stagehand up like ghoul or something? Yeah, at least I do a Halloween theme or. Yeah. Yeah. Or like I said, just make it sting pulls the lever and some guy behind it actually turns the wheel on.
01:45:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. My other note was, Sting seems as thrilled with the Komar's glove simulation as we are, simply walking out. Yeah, he gives one little brief pump of his hands, and then he turns and walks the heck off.
01:45:43
Speaker
Yeah. I also did a little research with Sting. About a year earlier, a different series, mind you, Sting did have a Russian chain match against then-heel Nikita Kolov.
01:45:56
Speaker
He would have reaction to that kind of match, but obviously that wouldn't be the one Bill Watts wanted or be a Jake Roberts special. But even commentary could say, hey, you know, we had a rush tape match with Sting and he lost.
01:46:08
Speaker
He's got to be worried about what match has come up on here. Yeah, really, like going off of what Jake said, if Sting was also not told, then it makes everything make sense. What happens at the ending there with him just being like, OK, quick reaction.
01:46:21
Speaker
Now I'm going to go. Yeah. And being totally in his head and not paying any attention to anything else at that point, like not even noticing Tony come up. So yeah, exactly. Well, least the match be worth it.
01:46:35
Speaker
More on that later. So our fifth match is Rick Rude with Medusa. Wait, what? Versus Masahiro Chono with Hiro Matsuda for Chono's NWA World Heavyweight Championship.
01:46:48
Speaker
Referee for this one, or referees for this one, is Harley Race and Kintsuki Sasaki. As mentioned in an earlier episode, there was a split between the NWA and WCW.
01:46:59
Speaker
This, plus Ric Flair's infamous firing as then world champion, led to the belt basically it being a property of New Japan, with matches then being contested against WCW stars, but it's much more of their belt.
01:47:13
Speaker
Like you hatch while you have Chono as champion, readily defended on New Japan shows, sometimes with obviously guest people coming in for It's weird that this belt that represented the company that JCP, Jim Crockett Promotions, was like the top part of kind of become the secondary belt to their own belt.
01:47:32
Speaker
Very strange how things go like that. Yeah, especially like it's the big gold belt even. Yes. They gave the NWA the big gold belt. They didn't keep it. True. Yes. Yeah. So the way Tono became champion is he won a special tournament that took place at the annual G1 Climax tournament.
01:47:48
Speaker
That name continues to amuse me. I love that that is still being used to this day. It's a very popular tournament and a lot of people love that. But it's just that name is so interesting.
01:47:59
Speaker
So normally the G1 Climax tournament is a so round robin of event where you fight everyone into block A and block B and then overwind each block, then fight each other. This time it was just a standard tournament with all these people in it. So it's not even really sticking to the G1 format anyways, but and is what it is.
01:48:19
Speaker
Chono won the vacant belt in the tournament, which is a star-studded affair, putting names such as Shinya Hashimoto, who we've seen from previous shows. Mm-hmm. Kijimudo. Nice. Steve Austin.
01:48:30
Speaker
Cool. Arn Anderson. Ooh, nice. Our boy Scott Norton. Nice. The Barbarian. Okay, yeah. Bam Bam Bigelow. Yeah. And Rick Rude.
01:48:41
Speaker
Nice. Notably, Rick Rude would be in the finals against Chono and lose to him. Oh, okay. That makes sense. So thus, this is the rematch for the end of the title between these two. Gotcha. Okay. So it was like, hey, I got to the end of the tournament. You need to face me again.
01:48:55
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. Okay. That sounds like a a good collection of people. Yeah. I can see a lot of different styles that they got for it, too. That sounds like a pretty interesting one. Absolutely.
01:49:08
Speaker
As we start, Kepeda presents some dignitaries at ringside. NWA President C.G. Sakaguchi and Manabu Nakanishi, who represented Japan at the 1992 Olympics in freestyle wrestling and looks tough as nails.
01:49:23
Speaker
In 1995, he would do a pretty standard thing for New Japan wrestlers, which is they would send them overseas, whether it be Mexico or America whatnot, work somewhere else. You get able to experience with new people and you sort create a character and you come back and you're changed.
01:49:39
Speaker
He would spend about a year in WCW off and on where he'd wrestle as Kurosawa. Not the director. think Yeah. Yeah, I know for sure he's on Halloween Havoc 1995, at least.
01:49:49
Speaker
Oh, there we go. So we'll see him later in the series. I know there's some more for sure with him. Yeah. His time in New Japan, he would win multiple tag team championships. He would win the D1 Climax Tournament in 1999. Which was seen like that was going to be his big year. He's going to rise up the ranks and become a top star, but apparently never really went that way. He was around, but he never became the top guy.
01:50:11
Speaker
Gotcha. Well, tellingly, he would get one world title reign, but it'd be 10 years after his big coming out party in 1999. So it says something. Well, I mean, you if you make it there, you make it there.
01:50:22
Speaker
Yeah. Kepeda mispronounces his name as Wakanishi, by the way. I noticed that do Yes. Yes. He had actually debuted as a pro wrestler already at this point, just under two weeks prior to this.
01:50:33
Speaker
Oh, wow. There we go. Kaveta introduces the two referees, Ntsuki Sasaki, then Harley Race. Sasaki and Race in referee shirts, Sasaki's plain blue, Race's white and black striped, are wonderfully funny sights. Mm-hmm.
01:50:49
Speaker
These two big, beefy dudes. Yeah. Rick Rude is out next, still accompanied by Medusa despite the earlier segment. Do you notice Medusa's full body suit she's wearing when she comes out with Rude?
01:51:00
Speaker
Yeah, it felt very like X-Men or something. Well, she looks familiar. It's the outfit she's wearing in the Spin the Wheel Make the Deal video. Oh, it is. It's the exact same outfit. Yeah. I think she has like a jacket on or something over it at the time. Yeah, yeah. but That's funny.
01:51:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting that she comes out with him. And that's the part that I would say made more sense to me after your explanation of Polly dangerously being at fault for Rude having the US title match in the first place.
01:51:26
Speaker
Like, okay, Rude blames Paul for the earlier situation even happening, and therefore decides to stick with Medusa. Yeah. But it is very confusing in the information you have on the show that it's like Rick Rude is with Paul Heyman.
01:51:39
Speaker
Paul Heyman fires Medusa explicitly as Rick Rude's assistant. Yeah. Followed by Medusa comes out with Rick Rude as his assistant. And also Medusa appears to have turned face earlier in the show and then just comes out and is acting completely heel again here.
01:51:55
Speaker
hmm. Very, very strange. Yeah. Yeah, you also would think all that buildup is leading to Pauly Dangerous League coming out at some point, but no. Yeah, yeah. Rude does his usual routine, cutting his music and telling the inner city sweat hogs to shut up while he gives them a look at the next NWA champ.
01:52:13
Speaker
He takes off his robe and swivels his hips, as JR notes that Medusa and Rude are still together, and that raises questions about whether Rude is staying in the dangerous alliance. Paul's firing of Medusa may have majorly backfired.
01:52:25
Speaker
Chono is out next, wearing the big gold belt and accompanied by Hiro Matsuda. I believe they use the music they assign him for the New Japan Super Shows. That sounds right, yeah. Senior ref Oli Anderson, at the request of Hiro Matsuda, checks both referees for weapons.
01:52:41
Speaker
Then Oli tosses a coin, or more accurately kind of drops it, to determine which referee will be inside the ring, and which is outside. Rude wins the toss, so Race is in the ring and Sasaki outside.
01:52:53
Speaker
JR notes that Race, holding up the NWA title, was NWA champ seven times. Jesse says, no one knows that belt better, which is not strictly true, as all of Race's reigns came before the big gold belt was created to represent the championship.
01:53:06
Speaker
So he knows the championship very well, but not the belt. Also, the guy that knows that belt most is currently wrestling in WWF right now. This is true. But they're not going mention him for obvious reasons.
01:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. The crowd chants something, but I couldn't pick out what. JR notes that Rude retained the U.S. title thanks to a court injunction in Big Van Vader's powerbomb.
01:53:28
Speaker
Accurate. Yeah. Rude jaws at Chono, and JR notes that Chono speaks very little English, but Jesse claims that Rude can speak Japanese like all Minnesotans. He did not back that up, though.
01:53:39
Speaker
and No, he does not. Notably. Both get each other in the corner and break clean, but Rude breaks the eyes and beats Chono up, but Chono counters a headlock with a back suplex and they trade holds, with Chono dominating.
01:53:51
Speaker
The crowd is pretty silent, mostly amusing themselves with woos for some reason. Yeah. Rude resorts to more strikes and earns two off an elbow drop and a forearm drop, but Chono escapes a sleeper and works Rude's arm and back with a hammerlock, armbar, and sharp strikes, broken only by a brief retreat by Rude so Medusa can give him a massage.
01:54:11
Speaker
Chono slaps on the Boston Crab, Rude makes the ropes, so Chono goes back to working the back. Rude stuns him with a headbutt and jawbreaker and builds to a swinging neckbreaker for two, then works a chinlock as JR gives some genuinely great analysis of the pressure and leverage in their fight to manage it.
01:54:28
Speaker
Chono escapes and counters a Rude charge with a drop toehold and goes for the s STF, but Rude covers up and desperately fights to avoid the hold, as you can hear Medusa shriek in warning each time it gets close.
01:54:41
Speaker
JR points out that she has experience in Japan and might know the hold better than anyone in WCW. Chono gives up on it and trades blows with Rude, who rakes the eyes and hits a piledriver for two.
01:54:52
Speaker
Medusa spitefully pushes Chono's leg off the ropes after the pinfall. She's been arguing with Sasaki all match, but Race warns her for that too. Rude goes back to the chin lock, and Jesse and JR discuss an arm wrestling contest that you mentioned earlier, Al, that Jesse will be holding on a future show, with Jesse thinking he should have invited JR to compete.
01:55:11
Speaker
They also do a great job of analyzing the pressure and leverage of the hold again. The crowd, meanwhile, is more interested in something happening off-camera. Rude tries a dropkick, but Chono kind of half dodges, then goes for the yet-to-be-named Yakuza kick, but Rude dodges and Chono hits Race, earning a rare, really loud reaction from the crowd for this match.
01:55:32
Speaker
Sasaki checks on Race, and Chono shoves Rude to counter a turnbuckle ram and sends him over the ropes to the floor, bowling both refs over. Race actually saw it, Sasaki didn't.
01:55:44
Speaker
Rude awakening, but there's no ref. Race and Sasaki help each other stand, and Rude tries a top rope knee drop, but Chono dodges and swiftly locks on the STF. Sasaki gets in and signals for the bell, giving Chono the victory by submission.
01:55:59
Speaker
I think Rude is supposed to have actually submitted, but it's not super clear. yeah Sasaki raises Chono's hand to booze, but Race says no because Chono threw Rude over the top rope earlier and is disqualified.
01:56:12
Speaker
He raises Rude's hand to some cheers. Race's ruling stands, and Rude wins by DQ, which means that Chono retains. Kipete tries to give the belt to Race to give to Chono, but Race is busy arguing with Sasaki.
01:56:25
Speaker
Matsuda also gets involved. Race gets heated and punches Sasaki, but Sasaki blocks the second punch and slams Race, then catches a Rude kick and dropkicks him, and clotheslines him over the ropes, then clotheslines and suplexes Race, who rolls out.
01:56:38
Speaker
Sasaki rips off his referee shirt, and holy crap, the crowd got loud for the Sasaki action. hu Guess they're more of a striking and power crowd than a matwork crowd. Seems to be, yeah. Sasaki, standing there with a bare chest but with a bow tie and remnants of his collar, is hilarious.
01:56:55
Speaker
Sasaki and Chono stare down Rude Embrace, who retreat. Thoughts on this one? It's an interesting match because there's matches we talk about where we can go, oh, it's great because of this or it's really bad because of this. It's one matches where they don't really do anything wrong.
01:57:12
Speaker
There's a couple kind of odd bits. Again, the dropkick sort of misses and sort of doesn't. Maybe it works because Rude's selling the back landing. But still, he seems to actually dropkick the guy.
01:57:22
Speaker
But as a whole, there's no like obvious real major miscues. problem is just it's so dry it's so slow so methodical it's a thing like if you were watching legit amateur even olympic wrestling this is what it would to a certain extent would be like it's fighting over holds and these long things obviously there's no ropes in big wrestling i know but it's a very old school kind of match and i think they really misjudged the crowd here mm-hmm
01:57:54
Speaker
i think Well, there's a lot of problems, but the main problem, I think, is that their understanding and their guess of how the crowd react is definitely just all wrong. I think their logic was, Rude's a bad guy, but he's also the American here.
01:58:09
Speaker
So the crowd's probably going to cheer him. So let's have Chono control good chunks of the match, like a heel, like a flare, constantly trying to put someone in a hold, and they have to struggle out of it.
01:58:21
Speaker
Rude wrestles a lot like a face other than his intermittent heal his actions. But they don't really boo Chono here. And they don't really cheer Rude. So it's the worst case scenario here.
01:58:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of feel like the crowd is a little bit confused as to how to treat Rude. Yeah. In part because of that earlier segment with Medusa. Yeah, that's fair.
01:58:45
Speaker
but I really think that they gambled on they're going to cheer Rude to let's have him wrestle to the most part like a face fighting underneath from ah heel. It's also not helped that Shona's offense, while it is solid, is just not that exciting, at least in their interactions.
01:59:01
Speaker
There's moments where between like the long holes and fighting to them, there's some genuine intrigue in how they interact. This is obviously not the first time they fought each other. I've mentioned they fought this title before.
01:59:11
Speaker
you can go, oh, well, this is their first match. Maybe they're going to work these things out. This is the very at least the second time they've wrestled. They could have wrestled more on house shows for all I know. Mm hmm. you really get by on that. So it's one of those rare cases where both guys wrestle well, but somehow it's bad because just no one seems to really care.
01:59:31
Speaker
again, as I mentioned, it's not helped by the fact that the crowd, even as little as they were reacting before, outright just turn and look away from the match. For what I assume is people fighting or someone being thrown at the arena for doing something.
01:59:43
Speaker
We don't see it because our camera shot never tries to follow it. So it's everyone just suddenly turns and looks to like the right and they're just not paying attention. Yeah. Yeah. So rude thought process. I'm going to just hold this chin lock until they turn back and look at me, but they weren't exactly doing all that much while they were watching. So maybe not a great call.
02:00:02
Speaker
Mm hmm. It's also another match where they just overly complicate the ending, which is a shame. i don't think it's obviously not as good a match as the tag title match, but that also had that issue as well.
02:00:14
Speaker
Even logistically, there's some issues with it. like I honestly didn't notice that race spotted the toss of the top rope first time. And when rewatching it with that knowledge, it's hinted upon the fact that he's looking past Gensuke Sasaki, which is a big ass because he's a big dude.
02:00:31
Speaker
This is fair. He's like looking past his shoulder and he goes, oh, I see exactly what happened here. hmm. So it might have worked if the idea is he's going to try to use that to give the title to Rude, but it's going to make a disqualification.
02:00:43
Speaker
Yeah. He can't make Rude win the title off of that, so it's kind of weird that he does it. Yeah. Yes. Also, we've talked about before how the rules of the top rope move change. Remember what is still illegal?
02:00:55
Speaker
He drops to the head. Rigorid master plan is, I'll just move I know I get myself disqualified so I can win the title. Yeah. Maybe he figures that Harley Race will not disqualify him for that.
02:01:07
Speaker
But also, Kinsuke Sasaki is there, who definitely would. so Yeah, yeah. Recruit, I guess, not the master strategist he thinks he is. Yeah, that's fair. In a vacuum, we just watch this match. It's not bad. Like I said, they don't trip over each other. Nothing really bad happens. It's just so dry. And the fact the crowd has no interest just really makes it hard to bet yourself into watching it.
02:01:29
Speaker
Yeah. Unfortunately. So this is another one of those ones where I had a more positive reaction to it on second watch than I did when we initially did our watch. Sure. I found it quite interesting to a certain point, though we had some notable flaws, as you said.
02:01:43
Speaker
While there are quite a lot of long holds in this, they're all done with some real intricacy in storytelling to them. There's lots of fighting for leverage, attempts to shift pressure, and really important mid-match segment about whether Chono can get the s STF locked in that it quite effectively builds up how scary that hold is with how desperately rude fights to avoid it.
02:02:00
Speaker
So it actually does have a pretty good story to it. Unfortunately, that story is dependent on you picking up lots of little tiny movements and details that are only visible up close, which is, I think, a major contributing factor in this match, having basically zero crowd reaction for large chunks of it.
02:02:18
Speaker
The crowd just literally can't see the focus of the action. There's lot of start stop as well. That too, yes. Early on, yeah. Also, while the holds are intricate, they are, again, very long.
02:02:31
Speaker
There's a lot of segments of this match that are just one guy keeping a hold on while the other guy does subtle movements that do mean something, but aren't that visually interesting. Yeah. I suspect this would have been better if it was a 10-minute match with holds half the length.
02:02:43
Speaker
Still do all the little interesting details, but just less of them. Yeah. So two other contributing factors. One, I don't think the crowd has much of a clue who Chono is. Yeah. Or how they're supposed to react to him.
02:02:55
Speaker
And two, like I said, I think they're confused about how to react to Rude and Medusa. Medusa effectively turned face earlier in the night, but here she is managing Rude, who is still acting fairly heelish, but not super heelish.
02:03:07
Speaker
And then they've got Race as referee, but he doesn't do anything remotely shady. Yeah. Even his final call is actually correct-ish, just really late. Yeah. Yeah. But Chona's also fighting more like a good guy, just without much in the way of appeals to the crowd.
02:03:22
Speaker
And his ref doesn't do anything shady either. He basically doesn't do anything for the match. Yeah. So I think it's quite fair for the crowd to just be confused and unsure who they're supposed to cheer or boo or how to really react as they're not getting any strong signals.
02:03:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm. If I were booking this, and I'm obviously not, but what I think would have helped is for Rude and Race to just go ahead and dial up the villainy and do some bigger, more notable cheating more frequently to give the crowd something to react to.
02:03:49
Speaker
Yeah. The other suggestion I would have, move the Medusa and Paul segment to after this match so she can still get a full heel reaction for this match. And then Rude not winning the title in the end will give that segment an easy, clear reason for Paul and Medusa to start arguing, with him unfairly blaming her, for instance.
02:04:07
Speaker
can see that, yeah. All told, the action for this was fine and an interesting enough watch, but it ends up draining a lot of energy out of the show because it just doesn't work at all with the crowd. It's easy to miss some of the storytelling, the characters feel subdued, and the alignments are a little confusing.
02:04:23
Speaker
So it's not bad, but it's quite underwhelming. Which unfortunately is a bit of a thing for Chono and WCW in late 1992. See Stargate. car eight I will say I'm glad we did the New Japan Super Show series. Yes.
02:04:37
Speaker
Because we got that great match with him in Mudo. And i honestly, in luca his Luger match was good as well. Yeah, he had two good matches on the Super Show series. And it made me like see, okay, yeah, no, this guy is genuinely good.
02:04:50
Speaker
For whatever reason, he just doesn't click in the US at this time. Yeah, we'll see him later in some shows when he's gone full Yakuza with his look. Yeah. I'm curious to see some of those and to re-look at those and see how we feel them.
02:05:05
Speaker
Does the addition of really strong character segments really like help him or does it overwhelm what he does well in the ring? I don't know. It'll be interesting to see that. Yeah, remember on the super shows, I was so glad when we saw that match with him and Budo and just like, oh my gosh, that redeemed this pairing for me because it was so good. Mm-hmm.
02:05:23
Speaker
I think if you're going to pick a moment to point out the issues this match has, I think the SGF spot is good example of that. You get what should be really good drama where we've been told as an audience, as the SGF is inescapable hold, then it's really dangerous.
02:05:37
Speaker
So we get the initial buildup of Chono going for the hold and then rude counter. But rude counter isn't like to get out of the hold. It's just to cover his head up and lay there. So that's one things, like a lot of this match, that's a legitimate way to do it.
02:05:52
Speaker
Yes. But it's not interesting way to do it. Yeah, I think that segment, the drama rides on you already knowing how dangerous the STF is. Yes. Which they have been telling you a little bit here and there, but and And maybe you can answer this, I don't know, if Chono had matches on WCW-TV leading up to this at all?
02:06:11
Speaker
He didn't have any matches typically for because he's working through Japan's schedule. But they played video, like vignettes of him in matches. Pesana does, Roode and company are doing scouting. They referenced all the footage they had of him and they ran over Right, okay. So we as an audience would have seen some of it, but this would still be our first, I believe, experience seeing him wrestle.
02:06:31
Speaker
Because it feels like basically like if you understand intrinsically how dangerous that hold is, then you do kind of have a reaction yeah from that spot. But if you are only tangentially aware of Chono,
02:06:42
Speaker
yeah, you probably don't really have much of a reaction from it. I don't quite understand why Root is doing what he's doing. and So while it's good storytelling in the context of the match, it's bad storytelling in the context of the overall presentation.
02:06:55
Speaker
Exactly. egg And again, for me, the way he does it is not that exciting to watch. It's perfectly logical and probably what you would do because he does have your leg. You can't kick him off, but just covering up and sitting on the ground like that, can't touch me.
02:07:08
Speaker
It's not the most exciting to watch if you're arresting Kraut, fortunately. The part of it that I did like in that especially, other than I did like just the general idea of what's going on there, but sure um I did like that Chono, I believe, starts wrenching really hard on the leg then.
02:07:23
Speaker
He does, yes. So basically try to get Rude to have to let go to try and deal with what I'm doing to his leg. Yeah. Like said, it's a good example of everything that's right and wrong about the match, that there's some genuinely good storytelling going on with the intricacies of how they're fighting around this hold.
02:07:39
Speaker
But all of it is such small details that if you're the crowd, especially, you probably miss 90% of it. It's unfortunate because I like Chono and I like Rude and this match has some good ideas to it.
02:07:52
Speaker
It just does not come off right. And you can tell why it doesn't come off right. It's not one of those matches where I'm like, I don't get why the crowd isn't reacting to this. I get why they're not reacting to this. Yeah.
02:08:02
Speaker
And I had that same reaction the first time I watched it. So I get it. It's absolutely a match that does have merit. It's not a bad match at all. It's just everything ultimately works against it and just doesn't work for the crowd and it makes it hard to hard to watch because of that.
02:08:18
Speaker
As reference, we would get a return match involving Shono and Kitabudo, who would show up at Starcade 92 to challenge for the title. Not a fan of that match, unfortunately, for lot of the reasons.
02:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, I remember describing that one at the time as, I should love this match and I don't. Yeah. Because like everything about it, much like with this one, everything about it like that was technical was brilliant, but something was just not clicking with the emotion of the match.
02:08:45
Speaker
And as we learned much, much later when we watched the New Japan Super Show, those two can have a great magic in each other. So it's definitely not an issue of them. it just other things happen. Yep. And as I've mentioned, Rude would unfortunately have to drop out of his US title match, which will also affect his other action on that show.
02:09:04
Speaker
But I'll talk about bit more later.
02:09:07
Speaker
We get the Starrcade ad again. It looks the same as last time. Then cut back to JR and Jesse. Jesse agrees with the decision to disqualify Chono and isn't happy with the, quote,
Simmons vs. Barbarian Match Dynamics
02:09:17
Speaker
Japanese nationalism that they're getting in Philadelphia.
02:09:21
Speaker
Okay. ah What? JR tells him to calm down because it isn't the UN. Okay. Sure. Yeah. JR throws to a video of Cactus Jack training Barbarian for his match against Ron Simmons by stacking concrete blocks on his back and then hitting them with a sledgehammer.
02:09:38
Speaker
I guess the idea is he's building up pain tolerance in his back to deal with the power slam. It is, yeah. Jesse says it may not be traditional training, but it proves Barbarian is tough. JR says Cactus Jack could be the deciding factor.
02:09:50
Speaker
JR also proves the value of punctuation. I see Nick Patrick in the ring. Our referee Gary Capetta is ready.
02:09:59
Speaker
So our sixth match, which technically is our main event, because the following one is non-sanctioned and therefore technically not part of the show, I guess. Yeah, arguably. Yeah. Not quite sure how I'm going to count that for our wrap up, but we'll see on that.
02:10:12
Speaker
Is the Barbarian with Cactus Jack versus Ron Simmons with Teddy Long for Simmons WCW World Heavyweight Championship. ah referee is Gary Capetta, Nick Patrick. Yeah, that happens.
02:10:26
Speaker
Ron Simmons would make history on August 2nd, defeating Vader for the WCW title. In kayfabe, Sting was injured and couldn't show up for his match, so they held a raffle backstage and over one would to challenge Vader.
02:10:39
Speaker
See, that meant Ron Simmons. like that your reward is fighting Vader. Yeah. feel like if you lose a raffle, that's your penance. Yeah. It is a very important bit of history. We talked about before that he is the first African-American world champion recognized as a whole thing with but with Brazil winning the title, but not really counting. And then some the stuff like that.
02:11:00
Speaker
So this is officially the historic part of it. It's a legit huge moment. Yeah. As champion, he, of course, have many people going after him. Simply, he'd have Cactus Jack going after him. Jack at this weird point in his career where he's actively wrestling, but he's also sort of managing and recruiting people.
02:11:17
Speaker
Because he's suddenly a Manjibarbarian here and training him. But he's also managing Tony Atlas. Because i watched a match where he healed Tony Atlas' goatee is coming out. And Manjibar hacked his Jack. i'm like oh, okay.
02:11:27
Speaker
I guess he's doing that now, too. Civically, Jack would challenge Simmons for the world title on the previous class champion show and lose. So thus he would then start training his protégé, Barbarian, to get a title shot this night.
02:11:42
Speaker
Okay. As to why Barbarian gets title shot, I mean, are you going to tell him no? but Probably not. No. It's all yours, buddy.
02:11:52
Speaker
Barbarian is out first, led by Cactus Jack. His music is quite major key for the bad guy. Sounds quite heroic. Ron Simmons comes out to smooth jazz with his hands on Teddy Long's shoulders, surrounded by a whole bunch of security in suits.
02:12:07
Speaker
JR says that Burt Reynolds is an FSU alumni and a major Ron Simmons fan and is watching tonight. Jesse, referring to the Entourage, says it's the same thing that happened to Muhammad Ali.
02:12:18
Speaker
You win the title, and you get 40 new friends that all want a piece of your wallet. JR defends Teddy Long's integrity. The two repeatedly can't move each other on lockups and charges, so a Barbarian consults with Jack.
02:12:31
Speaker
One more double clothesline, and nobody moves. Barbarian wants another, but Simmons ducks the clothesline this time and knocks him down with a flying shoulder block. So was Jack's advice, just keep doing what you're doing until he does something clever to beat you?
02:12:44
Speaker
I guess so. Simmons wins another couple exchanges, and Barbarian keeps going for advice from Jack, who tells him to hurt him, then pin him, which is kind of like telling someone playing Dark Souls that you win by hitting the boss.
02:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. That part's obvious. The question is how. Mm-hmm. Fortunately for Barbarian, he thinks pretty quickly himself. When he gets on the apron, Simmons grabs him, but Barbarian snaps his neck across the ropes and beats him up outside and inside, including a run into the ring post that Jesse claims would be a DQ if Jack hadn't distracted the ref.
02:13:16
Speaker
I cannot think of a single match where that has ever been a DQ. Yeah, I don't think so either. Was it one of the things that Bill Watts listed in his list? It was not. Okay, so there you go.
02:13:28
Speaker
Barbarian rolls into the ring to break the count and just kind of lies there talking to Patrick, who I assume advised him to stop listening to Jack as the man thinks sunset flips to the concrete floor are a great idea.
02:13:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Barbarian sends Simmons to the barricade and forearms him as they get back in, but gets distracted roaring and sunset flipped for two. Barbarian locks in a cobra clutch, or shinonomake, per JR, and Jesse is highly amused by the latter and says it incessantly.
02:13:57
Speaker
Patrick checks the arm and Simmons keeps it up on the third check, then repeatedly backs hard into the turnbuckle to knock Barbarian free. Simmons' spine buster gets two and he hits a flying shoulder block, but Jack has Patrick distracted.
02:14:11
Speaker
Simmons decks Jack, but Barbarian Big Boots Simmons climbs the furthest possible turnbuckle from him. Yes. So Simmons nicely rolls towards him so he can hit his flying headbutt for two, then a clothesline for two.
02:14:23
Speaker
Barbarian, in disbelief, charges again, but Simmons counters with his power slam for the three count and the win. Watching Cactus Jack frantically gesture on the outside on that counter is hilarious.
02:14:35
Speaker
Simmons rolls out before Patrick can even give him the belt, so Patrick follows him to deliver it. Thoughts on this one? I thought this very enjoyable match. They knew exactly what kind of match was going to be. It's just a big power match.
02:14:48
Speaker
And they really leaned into it. And they did it with a lot of sort of nuance as well. So it's not just punching and you know like bear hugs. know you love bear hugs. ah But they mixed up the striking and the pacing.
02:15:02
Speaker
You have the added aspect of Captain Jack as an outside manager actually doing something unlike the previous match we had. I really got into the whole story of Ron Simmons. His whole thing is he's young and strong and powerful. And here's a guy who's arguably his equal, like a strong match for him.
02:15:20
Speaker
How can he beat someone that can match him up so well? If he's fighting, you know, Pillman, he's got a power advantage or you might have, you know, endurance advantage over someone who's bigger but slower.
02:15:31
Speaker
Here it's, it's closer they could get to like what they call like a mirror image match where you're fighting a close rival. That's fair. Yeah. So is this match complex? No. Is it amazing?
02:15:42
Speaker
I wouldn't say it's amazing. I will say it is quite enjoyable, though. Okay. I like that the submission holds didn't slow things down too much. And I thought the hard hits were nice and the extra effect of Jack interfering just enough.
02:15:58
Speaker
It never became an actual like handicap match. Like sometimes they overdo with newer or newish heel managers. They really need to constantly interfere because they don't. don't have the balance right. You know, like he's like, if I'm here, if I'm a manager, I got under fear and help my man. But you're probably have to read two minutes.
02:16:12
Speaker
It's very distracting. Right. Yeah. I don't know. I thought the match is very measured in the right way. Obviously, the bit with the I'm going to go to the far right thing and wait for you.
02:16:24
Speaker
I don't know who's at simply at fault there. I mean, it could be that Ron was supposed to be closer and probably just remembered, like, I got over here to this thing. And Simmons rolled to him. Yeah.
02:16:34
Speaker
It seems like that's what was probably what happened because, not to blame Ron Simmons, obviously, but because the angle, like the hard camera shot they used for the ring, it makes the most sense. They dive in that corner. It's such a weird thing for Barbarian to do that he must have specifically been told to go for that corner.
02:16:50
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. For some reason, they were like, we're going to get a shot of it or something like that, that we need you to do this one. Because otherwise, like you would just say, oh, Ron fell closer to this corner, I'll go to this one.
02:17:01
Speaker
Yeah. There's no reason he has to do it from that one. So that's such a funny point. Yeah. My only little critique, and it's pretty minor, is that I thought his snap on his Spine Buster we did earlier for a two count was really good, and obviously he'd be really well known for his Spine Buster.
02:17:18
Speaker
Yeah. Rivaling Arn Anderson in his own sort of way. Whereas his Power Slam wasn't bad. And I'm certainly going pretend that muscling a guy like Barbarian up over your head and down to the mat is easy.
02:17:30
Speaker
But I thought he had less snap on that counter move than he did on the Spine Buster. I think the Spinebuster he's more famous for than his power slams. Those power slams are good, but they're just like, if you think of of Ron Simmons and think of a single move, it's going to be the Spinebuster is so, so powerful looking. Yeah, it's kind of a middle ground between the real good that power slam like a Dustin Rhodes or Randy Orton uses now, where just real quick and just slam over real quick.
02:17:58
Speaker
And to get the impact is the key. Mm hmm. Or you get the other way, which is like a British Bulldog or even a Dr. Steve Williams version of the Oklahoma Stampede, where you're building up to like a run and then a fall.
02:18:10
Speaker
And it's the impact of this, the building up meant in that way. His is kind of between those two. It's not bad, but I kind prefer one or the other. It's a power slam without a strong identity in this match anyway. Yeah, I agree with that.
02:18:23
Speaker
So that's interesting. So you you ended up liking this ah a great deal, it sounds like. Yeah, I did not. oh all I didn't think it was outright bad. No. But to me, I found it a bog standard big man match.
02:18:36
Speaker
And it had, to me, a very slow pace and not much in the way of variety. Simmons has more than this and Barbarian has more than this. I've seen both of these guys in more intense, faster paced matches.
02:18:47
Speaker
What we got here, I thought, was some basic power contests and striking. One slow hold, though mostly from the wrong direction, which admittedly is not their fault. Yeah. And finally, a few of the sort of power moves that I thought we should have gotten for the entire match.
02:19:01
Speaker
Hmm. So to me, there just was not a lot to this. And I thought it was real shame, particularly given that the crowd who was kind of dead after the last match could have used some big, bold, hard hitting action to wake them up. They do make a little noise for Simmons, but not as much as I was hoping.
02:19:15
Speaker
And that's because this match, I don't think gave them that much to cheer for. It's a shame because I like Simmons a lot and I like Barbarian most times, but I just found this very underwhelming. I genuinely thought, oh, we're going to come in and both be like, eh, it was all right.
02:19:29
Speaker
But I mean, I can see what you're saying on it, that they do like lean into these are two big guys. Where I will definitely agree with you is they've done a good job with match of opposites. Yeah.
02:19:40
Speaker
I just think the one that Ron Simmons had that I think hit a lot of the same themes but did it better was his one against Steve Williams. It hits that similar like, we're going to run into each other. We're going to just like really nail each other.
02:19:52
Speaker
And I think that one had a disappointing ending with like a count out or something. But there's other Ron Simmons matches where you're just like, he's going to do big beefy hits with people and everything. And I just feel like this one doesn't quite reach the level that I want.
02:20:07
Speaker
I got you. For me, I watched, I broke up my viewing a little bit, obviously, in our second view, the first one we watched straight through together. Yeah. I watched the previous match, the Tono-Rude match, and this pretty much in succession. There'd be a little break but between the two of them. Oh, interesting.
02:20:23
Speaker
So I spotted a lot more of the little things that get crowd reactions, more fighting while you don't hold and getting out of them, rather than just sort of laying there and struggling a bit more, like in that previous match.
02:20:35
Speaker
And just more strike exchanges. For me, it felt like, I don't know if it was, but it felt reactionary to the previous match. Okay. Where they went, look, these guys are reacting to this more dry, clinical, sort of legit wrestling, like a Lutez kind of thing.
02:20:49
Speaker
So guys go out there, hate each other, you know, get some nice runs in there, you know, fight the outside a bit. All the extra little things I thought were missing the previous match, as good as it was on a heteronial level, for me, were in this one.
02:21:01
Speaker
That's so fascinating. So I made a point because I knew I would be somewhat down after the prior match. And I even despite my slightly more positive reaction to it than when we watched it, I still kind of was. Uh-huh.
02:21:14
Speaker
I made a point to stop there and watch this one in the final match on its own night, separate from the last match, purely so that I would be in a better mood coming into it. Hmm. And I don't know, maybe that backfired.
02:21:26
Speaker
don't know. Normally that tends to help me with things like that. But yeah, um I'll give it another look at some point and see if I pick up on more of it. Well, for me, it was about matching the way the show would be watched, whether it was watched the first time, you know, live or you've like me in the later days of wrestling, you go to sadly not exist anymore blockbusters and, you know, rent the VHS or DVDs of shows.
02:21:50
Speaker
So either way, whether you're watching it live or on delay of even years, you're watching a show straight through. So for me, going from the Chono Rude match to this one is the way it's going viewed, and there's the opposite reactions and different viewpoints of it.
02:22:06
Speaker
For me, worked in the favor of this match. But I could see the other point of view as well. Yeah, I think I had the same reaction to this match both ways that we watched it going straight through in our original watch and then in the let's put a break between them thing. So I was trying to give it the best chance I could and just didn't get there. But I'm kind of glad because like we rarely have massive disagreements on matches.
02:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. Hey, we got one. Yeah, I mean, there's a point where for covering the shame show and all we do is agree with each other a certain point, maybe not the most interesting show. True, yeah. Hopefully we make it entertaining, but I can see, you know, it's a different viewpoint sometimes, yeah.
02:22:41
Speaker
Yep.
02:22:44
Speaker
As hinted at before, Ron Simmons coming off of this match would begin a series with Rude, which would lead to, well, not a match. As noted, he was stabbed in the back by a neurosurgeon and had a dropout of challenging Ron Simmons for this title at Starcade.
02:22:59
Speaker
Tying everything together, they needed a substitute man to challenge Ronson for the title. And who do they get? The guy who needed a substitute tag partner at this show. Dr. Steve Williams, who would come in to challenge for the world title at Starca 92.
02:23:12
Speaker
He'd get to be the substitute guy for a change. Yeah, yeah. Good for him. I've been enjoying that match quite a bit as well.
02:23:20
Speaker
We cut to Tony, who is with Bruno Sammartino to start. Okay, Jim, thank you very much. And Ron Simmons is the man. Still the World Heavyweight Champion. Great match, Bruno. Tony, that barbarian is extremely tough, but Ron Simmons showing the whole world that he is the champ.
02:23:34
Speaker
I you, we are in the midst of a tremendous youth movement in WCW. I'm very happy we have some of the greatest young athletes in the world with us right now. Yes, and I see this Eric Watts. You know, I i wrestled his dad, and believe me they didn't come any tougher than him.
02:23:47
Speaker
But it does my heart good to see people like Eric Watts, Brian Pillman, Shane Douglas, Dustin Rhodes, because this is a future of professional wrestling. What a bright future with such great talent. Okay, let's bring Eric Watts in right now.
02:24:00
Speaker
And Championship Wrestling. Any good reaction for Eric
WCW's Youth Movement and Eric Watts Discussion
02:24:02
Speaker
Watts? Yeah. Well, it's good to be out here and thank you, Mr. Sam Martino, Mr. Sivani for having me out here. You know, the competition in WCW is the top around the world. and I think today it was just a part of what all these people have at home paid for in Philadelphia paid for. They got that that championship match and these people are very intimidating like Ron Simmons.
02:24:24
Speaker
Ron, fantastic match, brother. Thank you. Ron, congratulations. Still the man, the world heavyweight champion. I tell what, it was a tremendous encounter. tell you what, Tony, it's far from being over.
02:24:34
Speaker
I've got more matches. I'm sure in the future with the Barbarian. As you can see, the man is tough, quick, and agile, and it's not over with yet. It's never over with for a champion.
02:24:45
Speaker
This is just another step into a long reign for Ron Simmons' champion. And Eric, You got a long way to go, but you're on good road to be in there, brother. And that's one way of getting this.
02:24:56
Speaker
It's hard work. Hey, Ron, Bruno, I'm sure you got a question for the world champion. here You know, Ron, I got to say, I was watching that match and that Barbarians, Noisy Pickens, and then with that Maniac outside, Cactus Jack to come out on top.
02:25:08
Speaker
Ron, you're showing the whole world that you are the champ. Congratulations. Thank you very much, Bruno. Coming from you and your day, you were a great champion, and I take that as a compliment. Okay, the world champ Rod Simmons and of course Eric Watts along with Bernard San Martino.
02:25:22
Speaker
Let's go back to the ring. We're almost set to go with our spin the wheel, make the deal match. Jim, Jess? I kind of like this segment. It's busy, but there's a lot of nice camaraderie in it between Tony, Bruno, Ron Simmons, and even Eric Watts.
02:25:34
Speaker
okay Watts comes off a little clumsy in his phrasing at times, but as earnest and complimentary towards the champ. And Ron, for his part, does a great job of praising his opponent and then giving Watts some inspiration.
02:25:45
Speaker
Bruno and Ron's interaction is a great sort of respectful moment between generations as well. Even if it is a little bit funny that Tony says Bruno has a question just before Bruno very much does not ask a question.
02:25:56
Speaker
Yes, yes, I guess that. It's felt like the sort of thing that you would get with sports reporters at actual events. And, you know, I love when WSW goes more legit sports. So it's no surprise that I thought this was nice.
02:26:06
Speaker
Yeah. My only issue is other than again, Tony setting up Bruno, Bruno has a question for you. Oh, no, he doesn't. No, my only issue is that it's very transparent. They're like, Bill Watts in the back saying, hey, Eric, go out there. Hey, you guys, talk about good Eric is.
02:26:22
Speaker
Yes, yeah. It's super not subtle. I mean, look, it's a thing that happens in any business. Wrestling business is just very transparent because... It's a TV industry.
02:26:34
Speaker
And, you know if you're the guy running the company, your son wants to be in the sport, you're going to happily promote him. And um I don't disparage Bill Watt for loving his son and thinking he should be a star, but really coming on strong.
02:26:46
Speaker
Yeah, what I appreciate about this segment is that Well, Tony and Bruno do go ahead and build up Eric Watts. Bruno especially makes sure to name drop a bunch of other young talent.
02:26:57
Speaker
Yeah. As well. So he does a good job of making it more about a youth movement. And Eric Watts happens to be a representative of that youth movement rather than just let's praise Eric Watts.
02:27:09
Speaker
It's kind of like they got a directive that was a little bit kinky and then they kind of made it something useful. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. There are far a worse segments where it's very blatantly, you got to promote this person and say how great they are. Yeah. Yeah, the setup is definitely very much, this is my son, how great my son is.
02:27:28
Speaker
But he didn't seem to force what they had to say. So they got again, Bruno pushes the youth movement, and Ron's like, hey, you know, you got a long way to go. you know, he it's a very measured thing. Yeah.
02:27:38
Speaker
If it was really bad, you go like, you know, one day you you'll be talented for this thing or something. That would be pretty forced. Yeah. He basically says, hey, you're early in your career, you got some ways to go, but work hard and you could get here. Yeah.
02:27:49
Speaker
Which I think is a totally fair thing to say. It's not insulting. No. But it's not like overly praising, but it does build the guy up as someone who has potential. I think it's the best version of a worst case scenario. Yeah.
02:28:01
Speaker
Everyone in it handled it well. And at least they didn't have to do this after the ah Eric Watts dropkick at Stargate 92. Yeah. Yes. yeah eat eat yeah He'd worked a few televised matches.
02:28:12
Speaker
Nothing can make amazing from what I've seen, but nothing terrible either.
02:28:17
Speaker
We cut to JR and Jesse, and JR describes the pole for the coal miner's glove being attached to the ring, and Jesse covers the match concept again as we get a shot of the glove. JR says all the sanction matches have ended, and both guys have released WSW from responsibility for any injuries they receive in this.
02:28:34
Speaker
Jesse says if they can't get the glove, maybe he'll get it and use it on JR. JR asks why, and also doubts that Jesse could climb the pole. So our final match is a non-sanctioned lights out match.
02:28:45
Speaker
Jake the Snake Roberts versus Sting in a coal miners
Jake Roberts' WCW Transition
02:28:49
Speaker
glove match. The referee for this one is Mike Atkins. Jake Roberts left the WWF just after WrestleMania 8 because basically there was a position open for Ryder because Pat Patterson was fired over some illegal stuff that happened.
02:29:02
Speaker
We'll go into that. You can Google yourself. But he thought he'd get the right position because it was freed up. Mr. McMahon decided to leave the position open until he'd eventually rehire Pat Patterson. Jake did not like that, asked for his immediate relief from the company, which would lead to his final match in WF against Undertaker, he'd famously do the, they call the Jabra Jog, where you just run to the ring, getting in and out as fast as you can, kind of thing.
02:29:24
Speaker
Yeah. He wasn't bothered by this because, you know, w deb is a strong competitor. He's just going to go there, sign a great deal of management and charge, get a nice $3 million a year contract, to great.
02:29:35
Speaker
just got to wait these 90 days for my contract to end, my no-compete clause to end. Oh, apparently about three days before my no-compete clause ends, and I can officially sign this contract they sent me, there's new management, and that management is Bill Watts.
02:29:49
Speaker
But Watch doesn't like me because we had some issues when he was running UWF in Mid-South. So now my $3 million a year contract is now $200,000 a year. That's quite a bit less. I mean, I'd still take it, but that's quite a bit less.
02:30:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's 15 times smaller than it was. Yeah. Not great. Well, he signed a contract and, you know, it's not what he wanted. So now they debut on TV. He would do a segment where attacks Sting.
02:30:15
Speaker
The idea is going right for the top guy. That's not world champion. He would get a pinfall victory over Sting in a multi-man tag team match alongside Vader, Rick Rude, and of course, Super Invader. Everyone's favorite wrestler.
02:30:29
Speaker
One of these things, not like the other. That attack and that pinfall gives him leverage and will lead to the very famous as we covered segment. Spendin will make the deal and then that's where we are tonight.
02:30:41
Speaker
Roberts is out first to what will eventually be the Hollywood Blondes theme. Oh yeah. JR builds up that they've got anti-venom on site and a medical technician in case Jake's Cobra gets involved.
Sting vs. Roberts Match and Humorous Ending
02:30:52
Speaker
Sting is out next in his excellent blue, white, and gold coat with blue and white face paint.
02:30:57
Speaker
Finally, something gets a full reaction. Mm-hmm. Although one guy in a Rick Rude shirt is dismissive. Well, sure. He kind of does a, oh, I don't actually like Sting type of pose, but in a way that I'm inclined to think that he would be cheering his head off if the camera was not pointed at him.
02:31:13
Speaker
Yeah, very performative, yeah. Roberts directs Sting's attention away from the pole and immediately climbs, but Sting pulls him down and slams him, then makes his own try, so Robert pulls him down and lands a forearm.
02:31:25
Speaker
Sting and Roberts trade hard strikes, and Roberts checks the tooth. Roberts dodges a dropkick and throws Sting over the top rope. This is non-sanctioned and no DQ. Sting counters a ring post ram, then runs around and through the ring to surprise Roberts and pull him back into it a few more times, damaging his arm.
02:31:43
Speaker
Roberts manages to stop another climb with a belly-to-back suplex, but Sting works the arm with stomps, a hammerlock, and an arm bar. They each stop another climb, Sting by crotching Roberts on the turnbuckle, and Roberts flings him through the ropes and hits him with Capetta's chair.
02:31:58
Speaker
Roberts chokes Sting with his wrist tape. Atkins frees Sting, which Jesse questions as he has no power, but I guess technically murder is still illegal, so... The understanding doesn't cover everything.
02:32:10
Speaker
Yeah. Weird spot, as Roberts goes for a running knee lift in both he and Sting's cell, so it's unclear if Sting was supposed to have been hit or dodged. Mm-hmm. Sting goes for a stinger splash, but Roberts dodges, and Sting eats turnbuckle.
02:32:24
Speaker
Roberts, nursing his left arm, manages his short arm clothesline. JR says the DDT will be fine, as Roberts uses his right arm for that, then is surprised when Roberts uses his left arm to hit it.
02:32:35
Speaker
I was curious. So I looked up a compilation of Jake Roberts DDTs. And across two minutes of DDTs, Jake used the left arm every single time. Oh. Hilariously, this match with JR being surprised that he used the left arm was in that compilation.
02:32:51
Speaker
Of course. but now I'm not watching it now, but I i might picture him doing DDT. That's exactly what I see as well. I see left side. Yeah. Roberts goes to climb, but Sting recovers quickly. Presumably the DDT was weaker due to the left arm injury.
02:33:07
Speaker
Roberts elbows him away, but Sting leaps, grabs the pole, and swings around it to elbow Roberts down. Very cool and gutsy spot. Sting climbs and gets the glove, but meanwhile Cactus Jack runs down and hands Roberts his Cobra.
02:33:21
Speaker
Sting punches Roberts awkwardly in the back with the glove, and Roberts jerks the snake up to bite Roberts in the face, which it doesn't. No. He acts like it does anyway. Roberts falls, and Sting pins him for the three count and the win.
02:33:36
Speaker
That had to be the most awkward pin attempt in Sting's career. Imagine trying not to crush a cobra or snake between you and your opponent while delivering a convincing pinfall. Or just ignoring what's going on a pinfall as well. Yes, yeah.
02:33:49
Speaker
Roberts visibly pulls the snake away and pushes it back onto his face and finally manages to get it to nibble a little. You can see a little blood in later shots. Atkins flees the ring, and Sting stays well away from Robert's.
02:34:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Per Jake on the snake pit, he really wanted it to bite down on him solid so that he could let go and it would dangle from his face. But no dice. Aw.
02:34:13
Speaker
Roberts is pretty down on himself for this match on his show, far more than he should be, I think. He said he felt sick after the match and didn't feel like he brought enough to it and let Sting down, in part because he hated the stipulation, but also he says he was kind of struggling with his addiction at the time.
02:34:30
Speaker
He does have some mostly four-letter words for Bill Watts on the subject as well. I'm shocked. Anyway, Roberts escapes with Jack, doing a fair job of selling losing strength and control over his body due to poison, as he stumbles to the back.
02:34:44
Speaker
Per Tony, that was not a cobra, thus why Jake didn't die. I figured it was either that or it was made venomless. Jake didn't explain on his show that I could find, sadly, but I can't imagine even WCW would be stupid enough to put an extraordinarily venomous snake among a big crowd, with nothing but Jake Roberts' grip, keeping it from slithering off and biting whoever looked at it funny.
02:35:04
Speaker
Yeah, I see that. Yeah. Thoughts on this one? I thought this a pretty decent match. It's a neat pairing because, as I'll talk about, there' there's not a lot of times you see this pairing of people.
02:35:16
Speaker
They had pretty good chemistry. Obviously, they have to work with the gimmick. That's kind of a given. For me, the best part of the match, and honestly, most of the match, was kind of ignoring the actual stipulation of, hey, you gotta go get this glove. Mm-hmm.
02:35:29
Speaker
They mostly just worked a regular match. So for me, that helped. I've seen matches where they have a gimmick like you got to climb this corner to get something and like that gets their main focus wrestling or fighting is secondary.
02:35:41
Speaker
Thankfully, that was not this case. There's a lot of nice little touches that I thought Roberts did that find his character like the way he would sell was really, really thorough. And so we try to look intimidating. We do certain moves.
02:35:54
Speaker
he is His general mannerisms really good. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like I can understand him being down on himself because, I mean, he's been through a lot. He seemed like he's on the other side it, so I'm glad he's passed all that.
02:36:05
Speaker
So I can see if he has a maybe a sort of more skewed perspective. And, you know, most people are their own worst critics, so, again, understand that as well. The parts above and the finish are not great. I'm glad that someone in the match, civically in the match, could actually climb the pole.
02:36:20
Speaker
I'm reminded of the last time we saw it where there's Big Bubba and John Tenta. Another one could clearly climb that pole, which is like plastic strapped down to the thing like that. They're not climbing that thing. Yeah, I'm also glad that this pole looks a little sturdier than that one did because that one was terrifying.
02:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think that matches later. usually you learn something. You're unlearning stuff in WCW. Yeah, that was 1996. I to say, yeah, that is later, isn't it? Yeah. it's a case of where they have decent, a decenter good strong end point, honestly batch, but they have to do these pole spots. And ultimately the fish is predetermined spoiler alert.
02:36:58
Speaker
And they handled it about as well as you can, but it's just it's a bit of a comedy of errors. Cause it's like, So much of this is a hat on a hat. We have a pole and you got a weapon. And also here's a snake all in a big pile together here.
02:37:11
Speaker
It's very distracting and silly. Yeah. The idea that Sting is it going to pin him casually while he's being bitten by a cobra, quote unquote, just kind of funny. Yes. It may be a thing in mind is like, man, OK, I can't stop this snake. You know, I've got this big metal covered glove. I probably could stop the snake, but I'll pin him that way.
02:37:29
Speaker
He'll get help right away as fast as I can. and Maybe that's good guy's thing's logic. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It is interesting thinking of that, that you are a face, like the biggest face that WCW has, and a person is being poisoned to death in front of you, and you're like, I'm going to pin him.
02:37:45
Speaker
but Yeah, exactly. I hadn't thought of it that way until now, but yet that is pretty ridiculous. If you can watch the match just knowing yeah here's a really dumb pre-planned convoluted nonsense at the end.
02:37:59
Speaker
I think you can actually kind of enjoy the match itself. You know, it's not amazing, but it's better. The match outside the finish is better than interpretation because of the finish. Yes. I'm pretty much in agreement. I do not think the actual match here is bad at all.
02:38:12
Speaker
No. Sting and Roberts put on a perfectly fine contest with hard hits and a lot of emotion, and they woke up the pretty quiet crowd. Yeah. The arm injury angle preserves Jake's DDT somewhat, while letting Sting have a quicker-than-normal recovery.
02:38:26
Speaker
I'd still prefer it be sold longer than it was, but they needed to move fast to Sting's stunt, so at least they gave a reason for the DDT not being, as Jake was fond of saying, the end. Mm-hmm. The action is pretty good, and they make just enough use of things that would normally get them disqualified and get just about the right balance with the pole as well. They go for it a few times, but only a few.
02:38:47
Speaker
Considering Jake's story, they may have had as short as an hour to plan this, so if so, this is quite good for that. I imagine that what they would have done with that is just have planned out some stuff that works regardless of the match type, and then add match-specific stuff to whatever gets spun.
02:39:01
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But still. Yeah, what lets the match down is really just that ending. It just doesn't work. It comes off as comedic and obviously fake. Yeah. It's bizarre that Sting only punches him in the back, too, when the whole point of the glove is to KO the person with a punch to the head.
02:39:17
Speaker
Yeah. The presentation and the timing and the execution are all just terrible there, and they bring down an otherwise perfectly fine, if unexceptional, match.
Show Critiques and Mixed Reviews
02:39:27
Speaker
I generally agree with anyone, Jake included, who says that one of the other choices on the wheel would have been better.
02:39:32
Speaker
But Sting and Jake generally did their best with this, and it's a reasonable watch until the ridiculous ending. Given more matches, I think these two could have had a really good feud, but as I'm sure Al is going to get to, that is not really to be.
02:39:45
Speaker
Correct, yes. Just on the ending specifically, my suspicion is regardless of which match it was, that was always going to be the ending in some form. Yeah. In some versions of the match, I think they would plan for it to be Sting wins the match and Jake tries to go after him and gets bitten by the snake afterwards. Yeah. And in some cases, it's intermingled with the ending like it is currently. But I think Jake is always getting bitten by a snake at the end of this match.
02:40:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So unfortunately, I don't think they can blame that on short notice. No, no.
02:40:15
Speaker
um Roberts would go on to work a number of house shows afterwards and appear in the November 2nd episode of WC Saturday Night. We talk about participating in the King of Cable tournament. He would not be seen again.
02:40:29
Speaker
He'd do a video and say, I'm going really excited to go into this tournament and he would be replaced by Barbarian and leave the company. And of course, as mentioned, Sting would enter the same tournament. This probably was the idea if he kicked it around. They'd face other again somehow in this tournament.
02:40:44
Speaker
Maybe it would have been Sting and Roberts at Starcade. That's an interesting thought, yeah. Could have had totally different King of Cable final. I mean, the one we got was great, but it would have been interesting to see like more Sting and Roberts matches, definitely. I think they've got some real chemistry, like you said, so...
02:40:58
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. I think we do quite well on the road to Starrcade, beating Brian Pillman and Rick Rude in a non-title match to get to that tournament final.
02:41:10
Speaker
JR throws to Tony and Bruno, who think it is only the beginning between Jake and Sting. Tony thanks Bruno for being with him, and Bruno says he enjoyed it. Tony throws to JR and Jesse, and JR agrees that there's more to come between Jake and Sting.
02:41:25
Speaker
It's always funny to hear things like that after we've talked about the way that doesn't happen. Yeah. Jesse says, that depends on if Jake survives the bite. It may be over. Making me briefly wonder if the explanation for Jake leaving was that he died of snake poison.
02:41:40
Speaker
That would have been very dark. Yeah. JR says Barbarian deserves a rematch, and Jesse agrees, but says that there's a lot more contenders. JR builds up Starrcade, and Jesse takes a cheap shot at Atlanta for failing to win a championship two years in a row.
02:41:54
Speaker
JR signs off, and we get some fireworks. And Halloween Havoc 1992 is done. So overall thoughts on Halloween Havoc 1992? I think it's a pretty good show overall.
02:42:06
Speaker
It's a mixed bag of generally good action and then some weird nonsense thrown on top of it or to mingle with it. So you can go, wow, I enjoyed this, but oh, well, so this happens or this match is good, but maybe this finish isn't great.
02:42:22
Speaker
There's not a lot here that is just solidly. This is great. Period. The end. There's always a but or there's although or in spite of, you know, to it. General presentation is good.
02:42:34
Speaker
I wish they had more of the Halloween theme for sets and other things other than just the opening video package. They clearly cheaped out on other things when they spent the money on the wheel.
02:42:46
Speaker
There's generally some good matches. I think it's a show worth watching. There's definitely some nonsense you have to get through accept as part of it, whether it's the little snake bit angle or how they overcomplicate two title match finishes.
02:42:59
Speaker
But as a whole, it's a decent show. I think it could definitely be better. and think they really lean to the Halloween theme. It could either be goofier or just more fun, but it's still pretty good.
02:43:11
Speaker
I had a somewhat different reaction to it, and I'm betting that the reason for it is that I had a different reaction to the Ron s Simmons and Barbarian match than you did. So for me, WCW did not break the streak.
02:43:23
Speaker
This is the very definition of a it's all right show. It's not really bad. It's not really good. It leans slightly more towards the bad for me just due to the arrangement. The matches that struggled for me for one reason or another are all together.
02:43:37
Speaker
The last three matches on the show. So the show for me hit a point where it declined and it never quite recovered. You can see it as well in the crowd reaction. They're noticeably quieter for the final three matches than for the earlier ones.
02:43:49
Speaker
And while they don't entirely give up on the show, it's clear they just aren't as into things anymore. A reaction that I very much shared when we watched the show together, Al. Now, there are points on this show where the struggle is understandable given circumstances, but the struggle is still there.
02:44:03
Speaker
On rewatch, there were more things to like in the last three matches than I had first detected, but they were still a notable step down from the early content. It's enough to put the show solidly in middle-of-the-road territory for me, rather than outright bad, but that's all.
02:44:17
Speaker
Promos and general storytelling are also pretty variable. Some are simpler than expected due to circumstances not fully in WCW's control, like Gordy's exit. And some are just strange or outright missing due to choices WCW appears to made, like us so not getting actual promos out of Sting or Jake, possibly because they may be having to plan their match out backstage and don't have time.
02:44:38
Speaker
Yeah. There are some pretty notable segments as well, like Pauly and Medusa's brawl, but those are placed quite oddly in the show and interfere with other storytelling, like whether Roode and Medusa are still heels in the Chono match.
02:44:50
Speaker
Commentary is also a bit of a mixed bag. JR and Jesse have some great discussions and there's some points, particularly the Rude Chono match, where they draw much more story content than is immediately obvious. But they also make several jokes that just don't land.
02:45:02
Speaker
They don't seem to play off each other that well, and they fail to respond to each other's comments, make weird political references, and occasionally just get stuff outright wrong. I think they're more good than bad for the show, but I sometimes found them distracting.
02:45:15
Speaker
Hmm. Production was a serious downgrade. Yeah, yeah. Aside from the great opening video package and spooky font, we've lost any real sense of set design on the show compared to prior years.
02:45:26
Speaker
Camera work is downright erratic at times, focusing on the wrong things and even during promo segments, or showing action from precisely the wrong angles. And for some segments, they just don't seem to have planned things out or rehearsed properly, so you get awkward moments like Sting having to just stand there during the wheels segment, or Tony clearly going to interview him and Sting just walking away.
02:45:46
Speaker
There's no real standout moments of absolute awfulness on the show, other than maybe the ending to Sting vs. Roberts, but that's short. But the general feel is just awkward, poorly designed, and always slightly off.
02:45:57
Speaker
For one reason or another, things just start going slightly wrong on this one, and once they do, it never quite manages to get back on track. For me, like I'd say it's a conditional recommendation. ah Depending on you like certain matches, yeah, the last half of the show could be better or worse for you.
02:46:14
Speaker
I did enjoy the Barbarian Simmons match more than you did. So I think it gave me a bit of hope that was somewhat squashed by how ridiculous they made the ending and working around a Colmar's glove match.
02:46:25
Speaker
So slightly more positive Mayan, but this isn't a strong opening of a recommendation. I think there's matches and segments you should absolutely check out. Again, your mileage may vary on Shono versus Rude or Simmons versus Barbarian.
02:46:38
Speaker
But stuff like Steamboat and Pillman is really good and Tag Match is really good as well.
Highlight Matches and MVP Recognition
02:46:42
Speaker
So it's it's not not a lost cause, but it's definitely a mixed bag. There are definitely things on this show that I think if I was giving you individual matches, hey, go look this up. There's definitely Simbo versus Pillman for sure. The tag title match for sure are ones that I would comfortably include in a list of matches that I was giving to someone to say, here's stuff you should see from the Halloween Havoc series.
02:47:06
Speaker
Match of the night and MVP then. So Al, what is your match of the night? So as always, I try to look at the entire package. Sometimes there's matches where I might enjoy the action, but the finish might be bad or maybe it's lacking in sort of stakes.
02:47:20
Speaker
So it can be really good competitive match. But if it's not for anything, it's hard to be as invested as a bigger match, which isn't as good. For me, I think it leaned towards the big man fighting, I'd say as a whole, rather than the technical stuff, which I do love technical wrestling.
02:47:36
Speaker
But the weight presented in this show is not as great. Exception being, of course, Steamboat and Pillman. That is a really good match. But again, there's no stakes to it. It's justs just a good match that exists and you should watch it, but it's not for a title or tendership or anything.
02:47:52
Speaker
So for me, comes down to stuff like the Ikita Kolov versus Vader match, which, while rough for Kolov, obviously is very enjoyable as a back and forth big man fight match.
02:48:03
Speaker
I think it's a slightly stronger in that regards than the Barbarian Simmons match, although I did enjoy that one quite a bit as well. Other things just let down so matches to varied degrees, like how complicated they to finish for the tag match or the whole snake spot for Jake and Sting.
02:48:20
Speaker
It's a narrow victory, I'd say, for me, for the match I want to watch and never take part in, as the Kolov versus Vader match. That's probably the one I would have bet on going into this.
02:48:33
Speaker
For me, this came down to Pillman vs. Steamboat and Rhodes-Windom vs. Williams-Austin. I'm going to go with the latter. It's a really, really good tag match. It's long, it's intricate, it's exceptionally well-performed, with quite a lot of subtle story details.
02:48:46
Speaker
And not only is it not hurt by the replacement of Gordy with Austin on short notice, it actually makes that part of the story, turning a potential negative into a massive positive. So credit to all four guys. It would have been very easy to be thrown by the change or let it affect them and hurt their performance, but they really embraced it and used it.
02:49:03
Speaker
right Credit also to whoever picked Austin as the replacement as he was a good choice to be able to slot in due to his history of the roads. Yeah. If that match had a definitive finish, regardless of who actually won, i think it would have edged out Fader for me.
02:49:19
Speaker
I think I could have gone with something different if it weren't for the the story of how the match came to be. Gives it a little extra credit to overwhelm the fact that the finish is maybe not ideal. i can I can respect that.
02:49:30
Speaker
Sure. MVP? So for me, i want someone that stood out in a match that for one reason another didn't hit exactly where I wanted to, or if they had extra little bits throughout, like if they got a promo package or something.
02:49:45
Speaker
So I would mention someone like Ron Simmons, who I thought they just part well and even did that letter segment bit well addition to that. Pretty everyone in the tag match, again, hard circumstances and working through it pretty well.
02:49:58
Speaker
Seamboat and Pillman are both really good in their match. It'd be really easy to just say, Seamboat's great, here's his MVP. Believe me, I've done it many times. Yep. And with Merritt. Yeah. If i was going to pick someone from the sixth man, I'd probably lead slightly words towards Arn, although Eden and Hayes are both really good in that match as well.
02:50:16
Speaker
Arn for the extra edge of embracing crowd loves me and what's going to play up to it. It's a nice little touch from a veteran like that. It's nice show. Or even Koloff in, you know, Failing or Vader.
02:50:27
Speaker
i i got I love Vader. I think the fact that he literally injured the guy does kind of take him out of a P status because a little bit. Yeah, it's hard to ignore that. So i'm going to go with someone that was put in touch situation, really excelled and showed the company that he has drawing future, even if people that came in later didn't agree.
02:50:45
Speaker
So for me, my MVP is stunning Steve Austin. ah Well, my MVP is also stunning Steve Austin. Hey, there. It's good pick. He was slotted into Gordy's spot in the tag title match on quite short notice, and if I hadn't been told, I would not have been able to tell that it was anything other than a storyline thing.
02:51:06
Speaker
He plays his role as unused to working with Williams, but that fits the story, and they quickly get very smooth together. I'm sure it helped that Austin was very used to Rhodes in particular, but still, it's quite an achievement to be put in perhaps the day of the show in a 30-minute time limit draw tag match and not have that fact be easily detectable.
02:51:26
Speaker
Austin felt like he was always supposed to be there, and that was an amazing performance. I will say as a conditional thing as well, my heart goes out to Jake Roberts because this his only pay-per-view appearance.
02:51:38
Speaker
Yes. Unless we do the Clash Champions where he wrestles in that tag match, it's my only chance to really highlight him. And I thought his performance was good. And obviously even if you're counting the video, which is not technically on the show, get a good job on that. But it's hard to get past that lasting image of the ending that they forced him into.
02:51:56
Speaker
So he's my sentimental pick, but I'm still coming Steve Austin. If it helps at all with it, I have heard that the snake bite was actually Jake's idea. Oh, But I get what you're saying. Like, this is literally most likely our only chance to have picked Jake Roberts, and he's one of the greatest heels in pro wrestling. So let's give him his due, even though on this show it did not quite work out to get him to MVP status for one reason or another.
02:52:21
Speaker
Jake Roberts is a very, very good performer and absolutely this deserves a lot of credit for some amazing heel work over the years. I'm sure there's any number of shows that if we saw from his WWF career or something that Jake could easily have been our MVP.
02:52:35
Speaker
hundred percent It just happened that this was not one. So yeah. Yeah. um Also, I want to just just call out, if she had more involvement in the overall show, it's a fair shot that Medusa could easily have gotten an MVP from me on this one.
02:52:48
Speaker
Yeah. Her acting in the segment with Paul Heyman is amazing. Yeah. She visibly gets close to tears. Yeah. But still manages to look tough and like she's going to kick his butt.
02:53:00
Speaker
Yeah. And then kicks his head. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If she had a larger role or they figured out something more for her to do in that Rude and Chono match or something, I think she could easily have made it there tonight.
02:53:12
Speaker
Yeah, I see that. I'm set. And that wraps up our review of Halloween Havoc 1992. Yeah, that rhymed. Yeah. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. A link will be available in the episode description.
02:53:28
Speaker
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02:53:42
Speaker
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02:53:57
Speaker
Next up, Halloween Havoc 1993. Spin the wheel, make the bind the wheel make the deal Yes. Again. Why not? I guess WSW had to justify the enormous amount of cash they must have paid for that wheel. The early 1990s are not good for those who like WSW to abandon bad ideas.
02:54:17
Speaker
They're just coming off of two straight years of Starrcade being Battle Bowl 2. Yep. Though to be fair, we did like 1992's version better, so maybe the next spin will be better than this show's too. Fingers crossed.
02:54:28
Speaker
This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:54:46
Speaker
Rose. Rose for stuff. What the heck did I actually mean here?
02:54:54
Speaker
Not sure on that one. Okay.
02:54:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think he just, and I bumped my microphone now. Oh, let me let it stop wiggling. There we go. The curse of Halloween habit continues.
02:55:09
Speaker
Okay. Okay.