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Episode 59: Bash at the Beach 1996
31 Plays1 year ago
Bash at the Beach 1996. Challenged by Outsiders, WCW has put together a team to fight for the company's honor...but the identity of the Outsiders' third man will change WCW forever. That's right - it's time to look at the birth of the nWo. Plus: Rey Mysterio and Psychosis put on one of the most mind-blowing match finishes we've yet witnessed, Arn Anderson teaches division, Kevin Sullivan is a face (!), and apparently, Konnan is Dean Malenko per Ric Flair. For all this, plus the wonder that is Crab-Cam, let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/letsgo2thering , or on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
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Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Speaker
Our fifth match is Disco Inferno versus Dean Malenko for Malenko's WCW Cruiserweight Championship. Let me try and say WCW without being weird this time.
00:00:38
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days and not so good old days of World Championship Wrestling Series by Series. I'm your host Bob Moore, and joining me fresh from his beach themed training montage is Alec Bridgen. I feel very refreshed and in a very succinct manner.
00:00:59
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Al? Good, how's it going with you? Doing good. We are fresh from having a hurricane pass through the region, and thankfully for us anyway, it passed us by. Obviously sending our best wishes and prayers to anyone who was affected by that storm. Of course, yeah.
Event Set-Up: Bash at the Beach 1996
00:01:17
Speaker
Tonight we are taking a look at Bash at the Beach, 1996. This is no day at the beach.
00:01:25
Speaker
What a weird tagline for a beach-themed show. Yeah. It's like if on the Road Wild series they'd had a tagline like, where we're going, we don't need roads. Yeah. It could be like not just a day at the beach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That's a better one.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I get the idea, you know, the idea of the beach is supposed to be a calm, relaxing thing of, you know, nothing important, you know, it's just, it's what you do in the summer, you know, or if you're in Florida all year round, because it's, you know, never cold here. Pretty much, yeah. So I get the idea, but it's like, it's weird that it's on your beach themed show. Like, if you did that for the next chapter of Bash the Beach 95, I totally get it. Especially because I was literally on the beach.
00:02:08
Speaker
But would that have been at the time? Fall brawl probably? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. So that would that would make more sense. Yeah. Or if you're trying if you're trying to make like the nitro post bash of the beach one that again, that would make sense. Yeah. But here it's definitely very confusing. Yeah. Bash of the Beach 1996 was held on July 7th, 1996 at the Ocean Center in Daytona Beach, Florida. So this is a day at the beach, actually. Yes.
00:02:37
Speaker
in front of 8,300 fans, 6,400 paid, which is recorded as a sellout. The Ocean Center holds anywhere from 6,176 to 9,440 depending on the arrangement, so WCW did a good job filling it up this time.
00:02:55
Speaker
According to our usual source, Bash at the Beach in 1996 earned 175,000 pay-per-view buys, which is actually significantly less than 1994 or 1995, which earned 230,000 and 210,000 respectively. Interesting. Yeah, it's surprising considering what's going on with WCW at this point.
Preliminary Matches Overview
00:03:15
Speaker
Obviously, going into the show, the fans didn't know exactly how important this event would end up being, but even so, I really would have expected this to earn more buys than 1995 at least.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, right. We're actually right at the start of Nitro's famous winning streak in TV ratings versus Raw, which started on June 17th, 1996. So we know that they're attracting an audience. Now, I should note at this point that there's a ton of different sources for wrestling pay-per-view figures. And in my experience, they many times disagree. OK.
00:03:47
Speaker
Some only have the buy rate, not an actual number of purchases, and based on my understanding, translating that into a straight number of purchases requires knowing the total potential audience at the time, and I don't. Ah. That said, just for the sake of argument, ProWrestlingHistory.com has listed buy rates for Bash of the Beach 1994, 1995, and 1996, which are 1.02,
00:04:12
Speaker
0.82 and 0.71 respectively. So unless the total potential audience is wildly larger in 1996 than in 1995 or 1994, it seems like it did have at least some audience decline, which feels weird. Yeah, it's interesting because I obviously, my part of this is I watch the Nitros.
00:04:33
Speaker
and they're really selling you on. If there's one show you have to see, this is the most important show, you gotta see this. They are hard-selling this, and as we sort of speaking, they are correct. Yeah, justifiably, this is an absolutely enormous show, so it's shocking to me. It's very surprising. I would assume it was maybe down from an earlier show in the year, perhaps, but not down from the previous year. Yeah.
00:05:01
Speaker
Prior to the pay-per-view, WSW held one dark match and then four matches on their main event television show. Jim Powers bested Hugh Morris in the dark match. On main event, the Steiner brothers beat Harlem Heat by disqualification in a match for the Heat's WCW World Tag Team Championship. I know the title doesn't change hands on a disqualification, but that really still feels like it should have been on the pay-per-view.
00:05:27
Speaker
does, yeah, or a nitro thing as well. Yeah. Because yeah, well, that's all cover during the follow-up bit. There's a bunch of stuff that happens that they pre-taped before hog wild. Just logistically, you can see all this time expense traveling there. So I can get why they have like 20 matches that take place before the show, but not really the issue here. That is very odd. Like they decided what matches matter and what matches didn't.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely matches on this actual show that I feel could have been swapped to the TV show so that the World Tag Team Championship could be on the big event. Yeah, I will say there's definitely a general feeling of making that title, or guess those titles in this case, seem less important. Not necessarily devaluing them completely, but it's definitely feeling like
00:06:18
Speaker
There are things to have, but the storyline with N.B.O. as we know to come about and, you know, world title situation, that's more important.
00:06:27
Speaker
At the same time, I mean, when the NWO ends up taking the World Tag Team titles, trying to take it back from them is near as much a focus of the following year's storyline as trying to take the World Title title from Hogan. Oh, agreed, yeah. It's just odd to me that not long before that, you're seeing the title kind of devalued like that. Right, yeah. One of those I'll cover later, the title change that happens to build up that you don't actually see.
00:06:53
Speaker
is done in a very weird manner, just more to that point. Okay, absolutely. Otherwise, Bobby Walker beat Billy Kidman, The Rock and Roll Express beat Fire and Ice, and Eddie Guerrero beat Lord Steven Riegel. So, this is a massively important show for WCW, but will the quality hold up? To find out, let's go to the ring.
Main Event Presentation and Commentator Insights
00:07:39
Speaker
We open with a video package covering the hostile takeover set to a guitar theme that sounds like that moment in an 80s action film when the heroes had a setback but now they know the stakes so they're headed for the bad guy's base to turn everything around.
00:07:52
Speaker
it does yeah it's like it's a very specific tone yeah it'd be funny if that was like stock turn music which probably it is yeah like it'd be like if when we recover those Hulk movies you've actually at TNT be funny if those get reused like oh it's that thief again yeah as we know they do reuse themes
00:08:12
Speaker
The gravitas of the video package is slightly spoiled by the fact that the video opens with a surfboard themed logo and a CG shark fin swimming through the water, but good effort on blending some very different themes, guys. Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
There's no narration and not even any sound from the clips they show, but that actually kind of helps this have a very different feel. We even get a closeup of a cop's hand on his sidearm, which certainly emphasizes that this is not a normal wrestling angle. At least the gun wasn't drawn and pointed in Hulk Hogan's face this time. I was going to say, it's been a while since we've had a gun drawn on the show. Was that Spring Stampede 2000? It was, yes. One of many, many things about that show that was very weird.
00:08:53
Speaker
Hoke, yeah. Hoke facing down with a cop when he tries to get to Bischoff and... Yeah. Still have never seen Hogan look that legitimately terrified. Yeah. I mean, he's not a good actress, though. Yeah. Host Tony Schiavone welcomes us to the show alongside co-hosts The American Dream Dusty Rhodes and Bobby the Brain Hienan. Sadly, everybody is dressed up rather than wearing beach wear this year, though Dusty's all black suit looks badass.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah. I will say to that point, I totally love the beach outfits, whether or, you know, Tony's having his stuff on his nose. Yes. On the beach blast ones. I think they remember they were worried about how the footage would look out of context later. The mood. Yeah. Yeah, well, in the mood, like, it's like they're replaying stuff on Nitro or, you know, later on Thunder when that comes to thing, or just historically speaking in general. And it's like, this is a serious thing and Tony's got that, you know, orange nose stuff on again. Right. Yeah.
00:09:50
Speaker
outside the show and be like, why is he dressed like that? Yeah, you'd kind of need if you were going to do the beach where you'd need it to be something where they could take off a goofier part of the outfit to look more serious after the events of the show. Like if you had them with delays that they wear at some points, you could have them going into the main event, remove those. Oh, yeah, there you go.
00:10:11
Speaker
I could see it being interesting to try to do because it could cause, you know, a very interesting like tonal dissonance. Yeah. Like it would set it up as them not expecting things to be as serious as they become. But I agree with the way that they do the commentary on the show. I think it is better that they dressed up because they're clearly not going for that tonal dissonance. They actually are treating this as a majorly serious event. Yeah, for sure. Speaking speaking of things looking deadly serious, but, you know, the reverse.
00:10:40
Speaker
We're back in an arena this year, but they've done a very nice job with the stage. It is set up with sand, surfboards, beach tents, a ginormous beach ball, and even those faded birds from earlier years, though I think they might have been repainted. They look a tad brighter. One of them looks a little better, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:57
Speaker
The walkway I really liked, it's even set up to look like a wooden boardwalk leading up to the ramp. Tony notes that Eric Bischoff is nowhere to be found.
00:11:24
Speaker
The three discuss the main event. A six-man tag with the WCW team of Sting, Lex Luger, and Randy Savage, facing The Outsiders, Kevin Nash, and Scott Hall, with a mystery third partner. Hienan says that WCW is full of energy and ready to face The Outsiders, and Dusty says it's tempting to say they should just start with that six-man match and get it done. Dusty openly wonders if Bischoff might be a hostage.
00:11:54
Speaker
and wonders who the third man is. Tony throws to our first match.
Key Matches Recap
00:12:00
Speaker
So our first match is Psychosis versus Ray Mysterio Jr. and the referee is Jimmy Jett. Mike Tenet joins the commentary team for this one.
00:12:11
Speaker
On the previous show, Ribeistero debuted against Di Malenko and failed to win the title. He got a rematch on the subsequent Nitro, which he would also lose. This is really kind of the start of them trying to bring in more outside talent like that and more importantly, signing them.
00:12:28
Speaker
So as far as I saw on any Nitro, mind you I didn't watch all Saturday nights, Psychosis is a brand new character to the shows. Now obviously he's not a new person to Rey. They famously fought about a year earlier, numerous times in DCW, which is basically the reason why they had this match on the show. Because they, you know, they tore the house down, as they say, two or three times on DCW, so let's just do that again but on a bigger stage.
00:12:53
Speaker
And Tene does a pretty good job during the match of building up that these two have a longer running rivalry, you know, in former federations and everything. So he gets shy of saying ECW, but they try to lean into the next class, which is which is easier to deal with. Psychosis is in his paladin colors today, all silvers, yellows, whites and golds with a couple of red parts meant to look like gemstones. It looks really cool. It does, yes.
00:13:20
Speaker
Hienan asks Tenet, who he thinks the third man joining the Outsiders is, but Tenet doesn't know. Mysterio has a red, white, and blue color scheme, and a mask with an open back that reveals his shaved head. Hienan jokes that it looks like Demi Moore's hair. The film G.I. Jane came out in 1997, but looks to have started filming in April 1996, so she probably would have been going around with that haircut.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny because a lot of times we joke about how they have very dated references or references don't necessarily hold up and you have to explain them. That one probably needs a less explanation given the whole Will Smith situation that happened to the Oscars. That's true. So I know the rare cases where by sheer accident, the reference came back around to notoriety. So that's true. You'll actually get it. Well, and it's a rare case of like Heaton was actually referencing a current event at that time rather than something that was happening like 20 years prior.
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah, it probably didn't make reference to stripes or something with the shaked ads. Yeah. The two trade a variety of leg, back, and arm holds, with Mysterio earning a two-count after he slips free of Psychosis's bow and arrow hold. Tine notes how well replica Luchador masks sell in Mexico, which Eric Bischoff must have missed, given how he unmasked several of these guys. Yeah, right. Probably could have kept the company open with the mask money alone. Uh, yeah, probably.
00:14:40
Speaker
Psychosis and Mysterio acrobatically dodge around until Psychosis nails Mysterio with a spin wheel kick, and Mysterio ends up outside, where he thankfully tosses a chair aside just before Psychosis dives out onto him. Both of them would have landed on that chair had it still been there. Yeah, it's very good timing, yeah. Psychosis does still hit the railing head first. And Mysterio might as well, so they understandably take a few moments to recover.
00:15:06
Speaker
Back in, Psychosis works Mysterio's neck with leg drops and a figure four necklock, and earns two counts with a leg drop and a massive clothesline. A rapid counter sequence ends with Mysterio on the apron, where Psychosis knocks him down, but Mysterio monkey flips Psychosis into the ring post. Mysterio hits a Hurricane Rana to the floor, but appears to clonk his head on the ring post in the process.
00:15:30
Speaker
Back in, Mysterio gets two with a springboard Hurricanrana, and works Psychosis' leg with a variety of holds, earning another two with a dropkick. Psychosis uses the ropes and drops Mysterio on the outside railing, and hits a crazy sentence to the floor, but keeps having his holds broken for cheating. Mysterio hits some absolutely wild Hurricanranas, including a top rope Rana from the apron to the floor that has Dusty actually warning him, be careful kid.
00:15:57
Speaker
To his credit, he does that really well. Yes. He rotates himself towards the ring apron rather than with his head down. Yeah. Like Lita would famously do all the time. And unfortunately, one time specifically did not end well for her. I believe that's what she was doing. She's injured off shooting a TV show, which is where an actor came from.
00:16:18
Speaker
Mysterio backflips Springboard Splash gets two, and he nails a variety of dropkicks and an acai moonsault, but Psychosis counters the Springboard Hurricane Rana with a powerbomb for two. Psychosis goes for a top rope Splash Mountain powerbomb, but Mysterio counters in midair with a Frankensteiner for the three count and the win. The timing on that finish. Yes.
00:16:44
Speaker
Love picturing them planning this match out and one coming up with that idea at all and Two being able to be sure that they could do it because they're just that good. Yes Thoughts on this one
00:16:59
Speaker
I thought this was a really strong and exciting match. It was ones where some of the crowd knows Rey or at least they've seen him between his Nitro matches or maybe they saw the previous pay-per-view. But he's not someone they have a long history with. He doesn't cut a bunch of promos. He's got a couple.
00:17:15
Speaker
And psychosis is really new here, at least to this audience, for the most part. So other than maybe the hardcore people that might have seen him ECW or know him through as they would do back in the day, tape trading thing. No one does anymore. Obviously they're sort of a mystery to a lot of people. No pun intended with the serious name in this one instance. Anyhow, so to their credit, they really draw them in with the moves. They tell a great story. Psychosis overpowering them and essentially bullying him in a lot of ways works really well.
00:17:44
Speaker
One thing I've noticed, it's really not a marking, it's a match, but just a general observation. For me anyway, there's a weird visual when the larger luchadores, whether it's psychosis or my man, LaParca, who loved doing dives, it's weird seeing a bigger guy diving on a smaller guy like that. I can see that.
00:18:05
Speaker
The Senton one works that actually advantageous because he's larger. You can throw his little body at him like that and squish him. But just generally the visual of the guy diving at him and Ray catching always seemed it's different to how we're used to it. It's just a case of that's how they all work matches there. Yeah. It just happens that Ray is so much smaller than any of them that that can lead you to a little bit of dissonance.
00:18:29
Speaker
until you realize that, like, most of these guys, if you put them in a match against, you know, like a Diamond Dallas Page or somebody, are gonna be visibly smaller. Yeah. With the exception of La Parque, because, yeah. We know La Parque is about the same size, but, yeah, they fit. If it was one for that joke, yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
For the most part, they do these really dangerous spots, whether it's the Hurricane one on the outside, or these ones on the outside, or even the Senton. They do them in ways that obviously are still hard to do, not trying to devalue them, but little subtle ways that make them more safe. Like you mentioned, they're pushing the chair away before the dive.
00:19:07
Speaker
Or the way, again, the way Rey rotated aside in the Hurricane Rana so he could grab onto the ropes, rather than rotating with his head down and risking talking enough or talking too tightly and hurting himself. Or the way he's sent on where he lands flush on Rey, so he really has very little body contact directly with his body, which would be where he'd injure himself.
00:19:28
Speaker
I think this little thing I thought was notable is that in that bit where they do the monkey flip toss bot, they do it civilly in the corner where the elevated pole is for the next match. So there's a rare instance of that kind of thing being used, especially because a few of the timing of this. So that's for the next match, and then it's taken down. So it's not like the fall brawl shows where they'll change rings, and they'll make ready to use the double rings, which are there all night. Right, yeah, yeah.
00:19:57
Speaker
They, they, what's it like when they were planning out that, so like, Oh, we're on first and it pulls there. We do something like that. They probably even called that in the moment. The other thing I really like about there are various stunts in this one is I feel like they gave them all room to breathe. Yes, exactly. That's the thing. Thank you.
00:20:14
Speaker
I'm sure part of it was them needing a bit of recovery time after, you know, a long fall or something, but it just felt really good to be like, okay, there's a stunt that happens, but that I get time to appreciate that the stunt happened rather than the really hyperactive matches you get sometimes, especially as we go into the later nineties. Yeah. Like those three teams or later one to the young dragons and a three count where due to the nature of being tag team match or the multi-man matches, they, yeah, they lose no break spot for sure.
00:20:45
Speaker
There can be mind-blowing stunts in there, but you just don't get to appreciate them as much as you do in a match like this. Exactly. That's a good point, yeah. They give each one a little emphasis in time, really react, and then be ready for the next one. It's absolutely it. What a surprise. The Cruiserweights are here, and we have an amazing opening match.
00:21:04
Speaker
Mysterio and Psychos has absolutely nailed this. Getting the crowd supercharged with the high energy, exciting contests filled to the brim with crazy stunts without ever losing the feeling of it being a good intense fight. I appreciated that this was not just stunts. There's a good solid story to it with early setups for later important counters. Cap it off with one of the most amazing ending spots I have ever seen. And you have a real winner.
00:21:31
Speaker
Absolutely. I was thinking about this and I realized that we've seen this match before, but we saw it later. Yes. I was going to see if you remember your thoughts on the World Wild 98 match. I don't think I was as fond of it. Like I didn't think it was a bad one, but I just remember feeling like that it was underwhelming for the two involved for me. Okay. I think you liked it better than I did, but yeah, I think you and I probably agree this one feels superior to that one. I think so. Yeah.
00:22:01
Speaker
So we have an underlying idea here that whoever wins is going to challenge the Cruiserweight title, which comes true because Ray challenged him for the Cruiserweight title on the very next Nitro, and he actually wins it. Okay. And as we've already covered in the show, he would have defended at Hogwild against Ultimo Dragon, which I remember also being a really good match. Yes, that was fun. We cut backstage where Mean Jean Okerlund is with Conan.
00:22:26
Speaker
I cannot believe it. We were just talking about that match we just saw very quickly. Conan is U.S. champ, but describe for me what happened in that last match. What was that final move? Well, Psychosis brought him up for a top rope splash mountain and Rey Mysterio caught him in the air with a top rope Frankensteiner.
00:22:42
Speaker
All right, I know for a fact that last night you wrestled in Mexico. You've had a hard day of travel in jetting to Los Angeles, then back here to Florida. Tonight, I talked earlier on with the Nature Boy, Ric Flair. He seems to me to be very confident. I might even say, Conan, he is overconfident. This title is on the line. Flair wants it badly.
00:23:03
Speaker
Well, maybe he's got reason to be overconfident. You know, he's done it all. He's won that world title 13 times. Nobody else has done that. But tonight, I'm overly cautious because everywhere he goes, he has an entourage. I haven't been here long enough to form an alliance. I haven't been here long enough to be afforded that luxury. But I'll tell you something, Ric Flair. If your manager gets in the match, I'll cripple him. If one of the women get into the match, I'll clothesline him. If that football player gets into the match, I'll chop block him. But Ric Flair, I'm going back home with this US title.
00:23:31
Speaker
Alright, I would say this man has got his act together after a long day of travel. Conan with a title offense coming up here at the Bash of the Beach. Right now, let's get you back up to the ring for more action. I thought this was generally a good promo save for a bit of a weird wording calling himself overly cautious and a bit where he openly talks about being willing to hit women. Admittedly, it's in the context of the woman trying to interfere in his match, but still.
00:23:59
Speaker
Yeah, I'm torn on the idea that Gino Glenn asked him to explain the finish of the match because I get that he, and maybe it's not part of the actual script. He's just like, they're both watching the Matergo and he goes, whoa. And he decided just to ask him. It just feels weird that you're asking like the other Hispanic guy explained the last match.
00:24:18
Speaker
I don't think he means it in any bad way, which is funny. No, I think he's just like, I know Conan works in this style, so he'll probably know what's going on there. And Splash Mountain is one of the moves that Conan uses, right? Correct, yeah. Makes sense.
00:24:32
Speaker
I genuinely liked that. You know, I love every time in promos that people talk about matches other than the one they're in. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it just seemed like a cute thing. Like, oh, you guys were both clearly watching. Gene was like interested in that move and Conan was able to explain it. OK. Yeah. I also liked the bit of accidental foreshadowing got his line about how he has been along at the former entourage. That was the later in this very year, he would join the Dungeon of Doom.
00:25:00
Speaker
Right, you could see that as a correction of what he saw as a mistake here, yeah. Yes, and of course you join a slightly more famous group a year later as well. Yeah. I particularly like his opening where he really builds up Flair and acknowledges his legendary career. Conan, like Flair, gets it. If your opponent looks better, you look better.
00:25:21
Speaker
This is the most flare Conan buildup that I saw watching all the nitros. So it's going to get something if it's weird that it's in a backstage promo on the show itself and not anytime before that. Yeah. At least you got something, right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Timing, timing aside, I'm glad to get something. Our second match is big Bubba with Jimmy Hart versus John Tenta in a Carson city silver dollar match. The referee for this one is Randy Anderson and Mike Tenet has left the commentary team now.
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, so this takes a little explaining, especially as you'll get into how Tenta looks in this. Yes. Tenta was brought in as part of Hulk Hogan coming in and getting all his friends hired and getting all his contracts. He came in and became the shark, as I believe he got foreshadowing on the last pay-per-view episode. In the time between those shows, the plan to destroy Hulkamania has failed in very spectacular fashion, as we'll cover when we get to cover more of those shows, especially Uncensored 96.
00:26:21
Speaker
So that has led to Tenta being kicked out of the group. Even though, as you've liked to note, he spent a lot of time and money getting his Clemson tiger tattoo on his arm chained to that of a shark because he's the shark and he didn't want a tiger on it. It was an absolutely dedicated dude. Yeah. And they rewarded him with a with approximately one year or less in this role. Yeah. That's definitely less than a year for sure.
00:26:50
Speaker
It's part of that he beat up and BigBubble would decide to just cut off comments of his hair for some reason. I guess sharks or former sharks are very sensitive about how much hair they have. Over subsequent weeks and shows he would cut off after his beard and at one point he cut off all his hair on one side of his head. I think this is, I want to say it's the right side but by the left side. It doesn't matter.
00:27:13
Speaker
And they even, at this point, on a previous nitro, they attacked him and cut off the rest of his beard on one side. So he has the balding head full of hair on one side, but only on the one side, but pretty evenly down the middle. So CreditorCreditor2BigBubba is a very precise trimmer. Yes, trimmer. And he has a mustache, again, on one side of his face. Now, by this point, I think the facial hair has grown back in. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, but he's left the hair the way it was. Yes.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's one thing that you really feel for that guy. That ain't counting the tiger at tattoo thing. You know, he certainly went through his daily life not wearing a toupee or a wig to cover the stuff. I really hope he didn't have any like major events like he didn't like go to a friend's wedding or like daughter's graduation or anything.
00:28:02
Speaker
Well, I mean, you got a picture. I mean, the dude's going from city to city for the shows. He's probably taking at least a few flights. True. Imagine being on an airplane and this massive dude sits down next to you with that haircut. Yes. I was like, do I say anything? There's a story there, but I'm not going to ask because I want to live. Exactly. So as a final part of this build, he would be attacked on nature, which is where they did the last bit of shaving on him.
00:28:30
Speaker
with a bag of silver dollars, which I believe was a callback directly or indirectly to when Big Bubba was, well, Big Bubba back in the NWA JCP, or we covered him back in, I want to say 86, is it that match? He's there with Coronet, he famously does not match him. So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's 86.
00:28:50
Speaker
I guess that must be like a game with these regional wrestling things that, like if you're a territory guy and you lived in like, they already get a national wrestling like, cause you know, like in the pre eighties, like maybe that's the thing they did all the time. Like the silver dollar beat down thing that comes off as really, as really weird and dated, still enjoyable at least, but a very civically, like territorially dated thing on this show and on television, like, Oh, a car say super dollar match. Of course. One of those. Everyone knows what that is.
00:29:21
Speaker
So, speaking of a Carson City silver dollar match, in that match, a sock full of silver dollars is suspended above one of the ring posts by a very tall steel pole that looks considerably thinner than it would be necessary to be for either of these massive guys to climb. Yes. I really would not want to be sitting in the front row when John Tinto or Big Bubba got to the top of that pole and it snapped like a twig. Yes. Bubba is out first, accompanied by Hart. Sadly, Hart does not have a Big Bubba jacket.
00:29:51
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's true, he doesn't. He does have a great one with his own face on it, though. Oh, true, yeah. He and him wonders how Tenta's going to get up that pole, and Dusty and Tony agree. Tenta's out next, and as you noted, he has half the hair on his head shaved off due to the earlier matches against Bubba. Notably, during entrances, the wrestler's names are all accompanied by shark fin animation. Oh, yeah. I'm sad they didn't vary it up and give only Tenta the shark. Yeah, or only give him not the shark.
00:30:20
Speaker
That's true, yeah. He's the only one that's explicitly not a shark now. That's true, yeah. There's no question about whether or not he's a shark of this. Yeah, Bubba might be a secret shark, we don't know. That's true, yeah. What kind of shark would Bubba be? I think they're like a bull shark? I believe that would be appropriate. Yeah, probably, yeah. And obviously Tenda was a tiger shark, as established. Yes.
00:30:45
Speaker
Tenta chases Bubba around the ring until Anderson manages to get Bubba to come back in. Tenta wins early brawls as Heenan knows that Bubba should just distract Tenta so Hart can climb up and get the sock. Prophetic. They trade off going for the pole and throwing each other down, including poor Bubba getting crotched twice, once off camera. Bubba finally gets a leather belt, chokes Tenta, and tapes one of Tenta's arms to the ropes.
00:31:10
Speaker
Bubba cuts Tenta's hair with some scissors to taunt him, but Tenta slugs him in the crotch because Bubba was too stupid to tape up both arms. Which Kenan noted. Yes. Then uses the scissors to cut himself loose, and cuts one of the straps securing the pole. He realized he's not gonna climb it, so he's trying to cut it loose so he can get the sock that way. Yes.
00:31:30
Speaker
Bubba interrupts and beats up Tenta, nailing a spinebuster, and Heart nervously climbs the pole for Bubba. Heart gets the sock, but... Tenta recovers and power slams Bubba, and takes the sock from a surprised Heart, shoving him so he comedically spins around the pole and slides to the floor. Tenta nails Bubba in the jaw with a sock full of silver dollars for the three count and the win.
00:31:54
Speaker
Tenta spills the silver dollars out onto Bubba and places two of the coins on his eyes. I was not expecting to get references to ancient burial practices on a wrestling show, but hey. Worth noting this is often associated with the myth of the fairy men of the dead in Greek mythology, but apparently there's little actual evidence that this was a Greek practice. Instead, they tended to use a coin in the mouth of the dead. Thoughts on this one?
00:32:17
Speaker
So this is a pretty fun match. It's a very simple old-school format. As I noted, this really does feel like something we would have seen in the Daisy Piera for sure. Yes, absolutely, yeah. So the thing with this match is you have to know what you're going to get. If you're looking for lots of move variety, like holes, looking for like cool dives or good running attacks, you're like misdirection stuff, don't watch this match.
00:32:42
Speaker
If you want to see two people that are very large, but to their credit, very agile and have relatively quite strong stamina, because they're throwing themselves around, they do it in bursts, which they do in a more controlled manner. That would have been a big move in rest, or maybe two big moves in rest. Whereas obviously brain psychosis could jog around the ring in the same amount of time and not be out of breath at all. Right.
00:33:06
Speaker
To the credit, they also use it as the big send-off for the storyline. As silly as, again, a match where you're climbing a pole to get a sock full of silver dollars to punch somebody with, or whack them with a flapjack, this is to pay off to a multi-week, almost multi-month storyline. And they give it a proper ending. They don't half-heartedly have a non-finish or anything. It's very clear this is the end of this thing.
00:33:35
Speaker
There's definitely some repetition here. I mean, both men have a spot where they try to climb up to the pole and they both get back suplex out of the exact same corner. I mean, obviously there's only one pole in one corner, so it just makes that spot seem to be more redundant with literally the same location. I think the second guy would at least know that's coming, but you know.
00:33:56
Speaker
I mean, for what it is, it's like, it's quite good. And it's an interesting case of how you can really do a wrestling show like, you know, like a Shakespearean play, just weird to, again, describe your cards in city server dollar match with, but where, you know, there's something for everybody. It's all different in his variety. Right.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was a perfectly good big man match. Ray trailer works really well with other big dudes, as we've seen with Vader. And Tenta is more than capable of holding up his end of things. The hits feel big and the slams feel powerful. And there's not really any lengthy pauses. Like you said, there's a rhythm to the match, but it never feels like they're stalling or ever particularly winded. They don't go like a big long chin lock for a tooth. No, no.
00:34:42
Speaker
I do wish they spent a little less time with the two trading attempts to climb the pole, as you noted, since it was patently obvious neither was going to actually get up there. Yeah. But I do really like the twist of Tenta trying to cut the pole straps instead, and Hart ended up climbing instead of Bubba. Good storytelling overall, and this was a fun watch. Yeah, like I was saying, it is a case of three guys, including Hart, and Vumu's over-helped produce the match outside of that.
00:35:10
Speaker
They know, look, here's the guys we have. We know what they can do. And they're experienced enough to get the rhythm and down. They know their strengths and weaknesses. They know how to play the crowd the right way. It's not one of those matches where you look back like we are now in general and go, wow, this is a great match. You got to see again, like, you know, we were to say about the previous match. But same time, it doesn't really attract from the value, like people at the show, because it's one of these matches that's done as well as it's ever going to be with these people because of their experience. Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's genuinely entertaining. Like they put on quite a nice show and like you said, it feels like a strange concept as this match is. It does genuinely feel like a good solid end to a feud. They don't cheap out on it. Absolutely. Surprisingly, neither one of these men is actually on the card for Hawkwild. Bubba is the closest one to being involved. It is funny too because we think of him as
00:36:06
Speaker
especially later with this sort of biker related gimmick, but yet he's not involved in the one biker angle on the show. That's true. Yeah. I guess if he was a face, he could have like been like working with Medusa, maybe that would have worked, but obviously he's playing heel. Yeah. So he does make it onto the show technically in the sense that he manages the dungeon of doom alongside Jimmy Hart for a match on the Saturday night taping. Right. Which is more than, unfortunately more than Tenta does. So what's that?
00:36:35
Speaker
We cut back to the commentators and Tony now has what looks like a Hawaiian lei on his tux. I genuinely have forgotten that until I reread my notes. Yeah. Sure. That all fits together. Yeah. Tony mixes up his words a little, noting how we have to focus on the match at hand, but we can't help forgetting what's going on here tonight.
00:37:00
Speaker
Dusty says butterflies are taking over and he wants to get it over with. Hienan says he's asked everyone who the third man is and no one knows. Tony says by the end of the night, everything may change. He's not wrong. Yeah. It is weird to make such a strong statement. Like that sounds like it's an affirmative statement, but then qualify it though. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. By the end of this show, something might happen. Oh, oh, okay.
Promos and Storyline Developments
00:37:29
Speaker
Good.
00:37:31
Speaker
We cut backstage where Jean is with Sting, Luger, and Savage. Everyone is wearing Sting style face paint in their own outfit colors. Luger's black and white, Sting's black, yellow, and green, and Macho's is yellow and purple. I love when teams do that kind of thing. I know, me too.
00:37:50
Speaker
Again, gentlemen, I thank you very much. It is very tense back here in the locker room area coming up tonight, a match that many have labeled as a hostile takeover match. These outsiders are going to have a third man joining them. They're going to be facing the macho man, Randy Savage, former tag team champions. They've held numerous titles. Of course, the current reigning WCW World Television champ, the total package, Lex Luger Sting. Guys, I don't think I've addressed this. I'm assuming everybody is in the building right now, macho.
00:38:17
Speaker
And who do you think their third man is gonna be? You know what? I don't care. I know it's gonna be somebody, so that's really all that matters to me. Because he's gonna get hurt just like those other guys are gonna get hurt. This is equal opportunity, equal war type situation. We're gonna take him out, are we not? Lex Luger, it's gotta be very, very difficult to prepare when you don't know who this third man is.
00:38:44
Speaker
That's very true, Gene, but we are prepared. You know, we've waited a long time for this. They've made a lot of noise, haven't they? A lot of loud noise. They're coming in and talking trash. The WCW, it was an honor and privilege to be chosen for this team. I speak on behalf of all of us. And we will represent it well. We will represent it to the best of our abilities. And you know what, guys?
00:39:05
Speaker
What is it? You know what point needs to be made here? Make the point, what is it? You've thrown announcers through stages, you've talked real loud, but now actions speak louder than words! Isn't that right stinger? You know what the unknown does mean, Gene? The unknown gives me a real dry mouth. The unknown...
00:39:26
Speaker
Makes me a nervous wreck. The Unknown puts chills right up and down my spine. The Unknown gives me goosebumps all over my body. And you know something? It does the same thing to the macho man. It does the same thing to the total package. We are a team and we are pumped and
00:39:47
Speaker
We're up for this one. You guys better do it. Let's just go do it. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for the total package. Lex Luthor, Sting, and the Macho Man, those three men collectively tonight to represent World Championship Wrestling in this gigantic hostile takeover match. I can never recall a match of this magnitude. It is big. Let's get back to the ring.
00:40:12
Speaker
excellent, very fun promo by these guys, a neat mix of their traditional styles that still acknowledges that this match is different. They kind of each get responsibilities here. Savage gets to charge up the listener, Luger gets to go over the plot so far and remind everyone why this is happening, and Sting is set to building up a sense of danger.
00:40:31
Speaker
I think Sting in particular does a great job here, managing to talk about his nerves and worry about the situation, while still feeling like Sting. He can look charged up and ready to go, even while he openly admits not knowing who he's facing is nerve-wracking. It's true, yeah. I love this. Yeah, it's definitely, let's say, it's a promo with three parts. Savage is his usual fun, crazy self.
00:40:55
Speaker
As we got to see the two weird versions of from the Batch of the Beast 95, actual promo he did which was insane. And the slightly more sedate and cut down one we saw in the Baywatch episode. Yes. That's good to see more of that. His intensity just really helps a situation like this.
00:41:13
Speaker
To his credit, Luger does try really hard with this one. There's a bit where he doesn't really mess his words up, like I do all the time obviously, but he kind of stumbles a little bit and you can see Sting like put his hand in his shoulder telling him that it's okay, just relax. It's a nice little thing because To is their friendship as well.
00:41:29
Speaker
which probably knows to have gone on today. So that's what I see to see. And I think there's a bit where he seems to have maybe not entirely blanked, but needs to think for a moment on the next part of his line. So he says, you know what point needs to be made? And they pause this for a second, says, you know what really needs to be said or something on that line. So he does a good job of giving himself the time he needs to go on to the next bit.
00:41:55
Speaker
Sting's parades was really good as well. He's only hampered a little bit by the fact that Luger's scenes to give will be the closing line about how actors think louder than words and then it cuts Sting with more words. That's true. I don't know if maybe that was something Luger was supposed to say later and he just sort of jumped ahead, which is things we'll do. It's not a big deal. Could be possible. Or I mean, you can think of it as Sting is referring to the actions of getting goosebumps and butterflies in his stomach.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, sure, sure. And that was like, that was a drawback. Cause you, like I said, you get at the tent Savage, you get the, the more controlled here's what we're gonna do during the Luger. And then Sting has sort of a nice middle ground where he, he's really in touch with his emotions and discomfort and the issues that Savage is dealing with as well.
00:42:46
Speaker
but he's not so out of control that he has to like shout or yell or you know gesticulate wildly so he's a good balancing point between all three because if you just had savage you'd be like well it's a fun memorable crazy savage promo but maybe don't get out the content you want right it doesn't make it feel different yeah right sting is the part that makes it feel different right like if you got a Luger you again would have gotten the point across but maybe felt it be a little flat because this is a good balance for that for sure yeah
Match Highlights
00:43:18
Speaker
Our third match is Diamond Dallas Page versus Hacksaw Jim Duggan in a taped fist Lord of the Ring match for Page's Lord of the Ring ring. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick. So back on, again, a previous episode of the show, they had a big battle bowl tournament, which was something that was ultimately won by DUP, the winner getting the Lord of the Ring and a title shot.
00:43:45
Speaker
they would very reasonably give the title shot to Luger, who as a brief reminder was in the opening match in which all four men lost via double count out. So of course he gets the title shot because reasons. Yeah, because DDP did actually get thrown out of the ring, but no one noticed. Yeah. Right. There's a reason why DDP doesn't get it. It's always bogged me as you can tell that Luger gets it based on absolutely nothing.
00:44:12
Speaker
Anyway, but without the title nut shot, it's still something for DDP to use because he has a status symbol and now he has a ring. As part of the story, DDP would find out that Duggan was getting a match for his one ring. He would declare it a, quote, a conspiracy. Meanwhile, but that's eight silver, Chris Jericho was getting some ideas for later. The final bit of buildup is a very strange one.
00:44:39
Speaker
The people would come out and say he's very upset, and his ring was stolen. He'd interrupt the announcers in the Gene O'Carlin who's doing a promo, and O'Carlin would be really annoyed in his midst of like, you know, why are you buying him this ring? Who cares? I don't know. Don't know where it is. Then they'd cut to a couple of times throughout the show where he'd be somewhere yelling at someone else about the ring. We'd later have a promo where Doug in the backstage again talking to Gene O'Carlin and would say, oh yeah, I just found this ring on the ground somewhere.
00:45:06
Speaker
Paige would of course show up having watched the monitors in the back. Duggan wouldn't say he doesn't even want the ring, which is weird that he's in the match for it. So he would drop it, and as soon as DDP got back up with the ring, he would hit him in the face. As a reminder, Hackshater Duggan is the face in this match, and not the heel. So DDP is Gollum, and Hacksaw Jim Duggan is Bilbo Baggins? Yes.
00:45:32
Speaker
That's definitely not the way we booked him. We did the WCW of Lord of the Rings for sure. No, no, no, definitely not. But that's the way we were going with that one. But yeah, it's just bizarre way to do the story. Yeah. Doug legit steals his ring. And then he goes, Oh, I didn't want the ring. And then then beats him up after he gives it back. The face legitimately is a thief who uses his thievery to get in the cheap shot on the heel. Mm hmm.
00:45:59
Speaker
We even reached the infamous Shades of Grey promo that I believe it's McMahon would give on Raw, which I think is 97 on Danny Gay. I believe so, yeah. But I mean, clearly, some of that with old school faces like Duggan, who just does, quite frankly, cowardly and mean things to people who are also cowardly and mean. So I guess that makes it all right. As we're being a tape fist match, it's not really built up that much in story other than basically they gave Duggan the match he wanted and he won a tape fist match.
00:46:29
Speaker
Paige is out first to his late 90s theme as we get crab cam. Oh, yeah. To go along with the beach set, they actually have a little mobile camera rolling around on the sand with crab claws attached to it. I don't know who came up with that ridiculous idea, but I hope they got a huge raise. Yes, absolutely. It's absolutely wonderful. It's amazing.
00:46:52
Speaker
Tony talks to the main event and says WCW is a team, and he didn't get himself in trouble by saying it's too early for him to say that, then rapidly back pedals. Duggan is out next with his usual 2x4 and American flag, and Dusty tries to call this show WCW's Independence Day. Okay, number one, it's not Great American Bash. Yeah, you just had that show. And number two, the Outsiders don't currently have power over WCW, so it's more like, I don't know, the War of 1812?
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty accurate, I'd say, yeah. WSW is trying to stop an outside invading forest, not rebelling against the current ruling power. Yeah, this is more Red Dawn than anything. Tony explains that a taped fist match is a normal wrestling match just with taped fists, but there must be a winner, so I think that means this is no DQ. Yeah, I have questions on that little cover after the match.
00:47:46
Speaker
Duggan easily overpowers Page, but Page breaks his eyes, pulls him into the ring post, and tapes his feet around it, stomping the helpless Duggan as Patrick tries to free Duggan's legs. Page pulls the tape off of Duggan's fists, too. Once Duggan's free, a Page headbutt goes worse for Page than for Duggan, and Duggan beats Page up inside and outside the ring, and suplexes him back in. Page holds the ropes to stop a suplex and get a brief advantage, but Duggan hits the ropes when he goes up top, and Page crotches himself.
00:48:15
Speaker
Duggan rams Paige to the turnbuckles in sequence and clotheslines him out to the floor, bidding him up outside. But as Duggan rolls Paige in and follows, Paige kicks the ropes into his crotch and hits the diamond cutter for the three count and the win. Paige celebrates as Duggan recovers rather too rapidly for the diamond cutter. Yes, yes he does. He at least doesn't kick out right after the three and he does look dazed, but still, you should be selling on the map for at least 10 or 20 seconds, Duggan, not immediately sitting up when Paige lets go.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah. Milly taping her fist up as well. Yeah. Duggan crawls to a roll of tape in the corner, tapes up his fist, and decks Page. As Duggan leaves, Patrick brings the ring over to Page, who sells being knocked completely loopy by that. You know, like Duggan should have done for him. Yeah. I mean, cut to a year later when Renny Savage sells a diamond cutter like Death. Yeah. He's down to like a minute and a half. Like, maybe he might be overselling it, but you know, it really emphasizes the move. Yeah. Thoughts on this one?
00:49:15
Speaker
I don't think this isn't a bad match. There's definitely a case of DDP, as P.I. did say, doing his best in the situation.
00:49:22
Speaker
That's not to say Doug can't wrestle because obviously he can. He's got, at this point, he's been wrestling for almost 20, I don't know, probably around 20 years. I don't know exactly when he started, but 15, 20 years is a pretty solid bet. He's wrestling in the eighties. So that he doesn't know what to do, but he clearly just didn't want to do much more than certain things. You know, he'd do a suplex or two, but he wouldn't work technical style. He just liked to brawl and yell hoe and hit you with the, you know, his fist wrapped in tape in that two by four, but he has the two by four still.
00:49:50
Speaker
So it's a case of someone who understandably is a control freak with matches but generally gets good results so I don't complain about it. And a guy who basically does three things and does them all pretty well at least.
00:50:03
Speaker
I think they get about everything they could out of this match. You have in the ring brawling, you have out of the ring brawling, you have standing in with the tape, and then the tape being removed from nugget. So the thing is, he's afraid of the tape fist, so he takes the tape off. Yeah, yeah. It's still not clear how much impact the tape has on his fist and why. Because the question you have to have in a match like this is, why don't you just immediately hit him with a tape fist and win?
00:50:27
Speaker
Yeah, at least the tape fist has been built up at this point as increasing the power of his punches somehow. So, you know, it makes sense why Paige goes to remove it. Yeah, in universe, it's explained. But if you're like, if you're someone watching for the casual viewership, go, wait, why is he knocking out because it's taped in a fist? Yeah, it's just not explained very well.
00:50:50
Speaker
I do think I said they think they did what they could with the time they had. There's nothing really amazing this match, but it's perfectly functional. I think they covered all the angles they could as far as the match work itself. And I'm glad the right man won here. Even if, as you noted, Duggan does not fill a diamond cutter very well and immediately needs to get his heat back, which is a little disappointing, but also not surprising.
00:51:12
Speaker
Yeah, Duggan's weird refusal to sell the diamond cutter as a big hit at the end aside, I found the actual match quite fun. As usual, we get a lot of story beats in a match with Paige, with him working a lot of tricks and big moments in to make this more than just punching in slams.
00:51:28
Speaker
Some of the spot ideas, most notably a wibbly wobbly rope punches spot, were a little silly. And this probably would have been a little better if they let some of the spots breathe a bit more. But the actual content is quite fun. And this is far and away the best Duggan match I have seen. Diamond Dallas Page does it again. Yes. On that note, I have questions about the rules of a tape fist match. Yes.
00:51:55
Speaker
In Lucio, in Lucio Libre, if someone takes off an opponent's mask, and it's not a match where you're fighting to demask them, it's an automatic disqualification. Like, it's a rule you cannot break there. The mask is such a major thing. So, in that logic, does that mean that DDP should have been disqualified for moving the tape in a tape mismatch?
00:52:15
Speaker
I don't, I don't think so. I think it would be more of a, um, the analog would be more like a, what's the chairs match for a ladder match where it's declaring this weapon is legal for this match. Not declaring you have to wear this for this match. That'd be if it were like, you know, pillows on your fist match, then I could see a disqualification for removing the pillows. Okay. Should Doug and then be disqualified? Cause he's wrestling a tape fist match without tape fists.
00:52:42
Speaker
No, I think it's like if he got disarmed when he had a chair, you know, chairs match. Now, my solution here is simply put in a standing 10 count to put his tape back on. If he doesn't put it back on in time, then he's not following the rules. And I mean, we do know that Duncan's quite fast at getting the tape on in some respect, at least. True, yeah. You know, he could probably do pretty well. I could actually see, especially DDP, making that a plot point in a match like, hey, you can put your tape on really fast during the match, right? Why don't we do that?
00:53:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. Maybe if they had another meta, he would have added that too to the binder. Yes, absolutely. Like many people in the show, DEP does also not have a match, fortunately, on the Hog Wild show. Although he would work a Saturday Night match on that same taping. Unfortunately, he doesn't make the main show. Fortunately, he does win. But unfortunately, he wins by beating Renegade. So, I mean, I'm glad he beat Renegade, but also he had to fight Renegade again.
00:53:41
Speaker
Well, it was probably one of Renegade's best matches, so. Oh, like 100 people that watched Saturday night maybe saw it. We cut backstage where Mean Gene is with Jimmy Hart, the Giant, and the Taskmaster, Kevin Sullivan. Gentlemen, please come on in. Jimmy Hart, you little twerp.
00:54:04
Speaker
the seven-foot four-inch four hundred and seventy one-pound heavyweight champion of the world representing world championship wrestling the giant kevin sullivan tonight arn Anderson chris benoit two out of the four horsemen and considering well considering you mr. sullivan no disrespect
00:54:21
Speaker
Things don't look real good for you personally. I don't think they're going to let this guy even get in the ring. They're going to double team you if they get a shot. They're going to double team me. They can bring all four horsemen out. Let me tell you something. This is home court advantage. And there's something burning in my gut. You think I'm the weak link? Well, ask the giant and he'll tell you exactly what I am. Giant, be honest with us. Do you consider the Taskmaster the weak link of the Dungeon of Doom?
00:54:48
Speaker
I never and once in my life would ever consider the Taskmasters a weak link. He is the backbone of the Dungeon of Doom. He is the one that brought the giant to WCW to reclaim my birthright and put an end to all that Hulkamania stuff.
00:55:06
Speaker
And you talk about the Horsemen, the Elite, this, that, and the other. They're not the Elite. I am the World Heavyweight Champion. I always will be. I am the Elite. You come after the Taskmaster. You come after Kevin Sullivan and his home down, his home court. Looks like we're going to have some horse stew later. All right, they are thorough, Brad. Make no mistake about that, Jimmy Hart. The best of the Horsemen go against the best of the dungeon. We'll see who wins.
00:55:35
Speaker
Can you do me a favor? I don't want to offend you, but will you brush your teeth? Stop it with me. All right, ladies and gentlemen, the bash at the beach. Absolutely electrifying. Good solid work by Giant and Sullivan here, I thought, in an almost babyface promo. Yeah. It's a really interesting atmosphere that's kind of starting to edge towards how Giant will be seen between now and Hogwild. Yes.
00:55:59
Speaker
Sullivan comes off as willing to fight despite possible disadvantage, and Giant quite nicely defends him against accusations of being a weak link. They're both still healed, so they do come off a little disingenuous in all of this, of course, which holds it back from being a full face promo, but it's still a neat tone. I also really like the Giant's response to the Horsemen being called elite. Uh, no, I'm the world champ, and they aren't champs at all, so I'm the elite.
00:56:27
Speaker
Also notable, that bit where Giant calls Sullivan the backbone of the dungeon, which Sullivan decides means he needs to stand at attention and salute for some reason. What do you think a backbone is, Kevin? Still, good promo. Yeah, it's fine. It's fairly nothing promo as a whole.
00:56:46
Speaker
It basically just gets storyline across. Hey, you know, the horseman think, yeah, Sullivan's a weak link. Well, you know, he's stronger than anybody, blah, blah, blah. And then really just building up that he's kind of his point. He's the elite because he's the champion. As a modern wrestling fan, it's weird hearing the word elite thorns so many times, but he has to sort of give it context.
00:57:07
Speaker
The other thing I do like about this, and we'll see this when we get to the actual match, but this is a good case of the promo actually foreshadowing the match, that Gene is entirely right in his analysis of what the Horsemen are going to do, and Sullivan is entirely right that he's going to be able to take it.
00:57:26
Speaker
You don't often get the promo so directly related to the plot of the actual match like that. You get a bit of that with Conan as well, where he has declared his intention to physically oppose attempts to interfere. So I think on this show, there's a strong feeling of the promos getting tied a little more directly to the match than you sometimes get, which is cool. Yeah, I can see that.
00:57:49
Speaker
Jane throws to Lee Marshall, who is on the beach set Boardwalk with Chris Benoit in his usual duds, and Arne Anderson in the amazing combination of wrestling tights, light blue WSW t-shirt, and dad glasses. Yes.
00:58:03
Speaker
Thank you very much, Bean Jean, standing here with two of the four horsemen, the Canadian Crippler, Chris Benoit, the enforcer, Arne Anderson, and it boils down simply to this, Arne, if you can beat either the Taskmaster or the Giant, one of the four horsemen gets a shot at the heavyweight championship of the world on TNT Monday Nitro.
00:58:23
Speaker
Before I get to Sullivan and the Giants, I wanna talk about the outsiders briefly. Yeah, Eric Bischoff stood up to you and you shoved him through a table, big deal. Tonight I think you're gonna find a little rougher road with Sting, Luger and Savage. Now I'm no big fan of theirs, but I just want you to understand whoever you are, what kind of fights you're in. And maybe if you survive it, you can jump on the horseman. But the fact is, first things first, Sullivan,
00:58:52
Speaker
We're looking at this thing as a vehicle to get the world title back where it belongs. Now I've been walking these streets of Daytona Beach for a couple of days and all I'm hearing is, boy, what a beating Kevin Sullivan's gonna give you. He stuck his hand out to you in friendship and drew back a nub. Well, that's the way of the world, the world the four horsemen live in. Giant, we chop you down in half, you're only three six.
00:59:18
Speaker
I gotta think Chris Benoit that you've got some unfinished unsettled business with a taskmaster Kevin Sullivan silent but violent Kevin Sullivan Giant the horsemen have tolerated the dungeon of doom far too long tonight We're gonna finish off what you started Sullivan I'm gonna leave you for dead
00:59:47
Speaker
Giant, you've given us but another opportunity for the Horsemen to reign supreme in the WCW. Coming up, tag team action, the Giant and the Taskmaster, Benoit and Anderson. You talk about some tag team action. You're not going to believe what's coming up. In fact, let's get to the ring. Lee gives us a let's get to the ring there. So close. So close.
01:00:14
Speaker
As for this promo, Anderson does some amazing work with comments on the Outsiders that help build them up as a mega threat by showing that even WSW's big time heals hate them. I love how openly dismissive he is of them throwing Bischoff through the table. He does a good quick coverage of the Horseman Dungeon story as well and has the absolutely wonderful Immortal line. Giant, if we cut you in half, you're only 3-6.
01:00:41
Speaker
Then Benoit gives his weird catchphrase that sounds like he's calling himself a fart. A little bit, yeah. To be fair, he does perfectly acceptable promo work after that, though there's some weird long pauses in there that I think he meant for emphasis, but that honestly kind of make it sound like he forgot what he wanted to say at points. Yeah, thanks for that. Overall though, another really good promo segment tonight.
01:01:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think if you really sort of focus on the Arne part more than the Benoit part, then it comes off a lot better because he has that current line. It is nice that he ties the Oregon story of the show into this because obviously their focus is on winning this tag match to get a title shot, but they're not wearing blinders, or I guess horse blinders in this case, as far as the rest of what's going on in the company.
01:01:25
Speaker
So it's a nice little bit there when people reference something that really shows how important it is. It's not like, oh, you know, I'm fine with the tag files later. I don't care what's going on with the whole company being in some sort of theoretical peril, whatever. Yeah. Arne does an amazing job with that. From his perspective right now, these guys are, you know, they're trying to be another horseman style group or something like that. So he's like, big deal. You throw an announcer through the table. I mean, we do that kind of stuff. I'm used to that.
01:01:57
Speaker
Call me when you do something exciting, son. Yeah, right. Our fourth match is the Public Enemy, Rocko Rock and Johnny Grunge, versus the Nasty Boys, Brian Knobs and Jerry Sags, in a four-man dog collar match. Oh, joy, my favorite two tag teams in the universe. And your favorite format, a match. Yeah. Referee for this one is Jimmy Jett, though Randy Eller comes out to help hook the collars on.
01:02:25
Speaker
Here we have two teams that love fighting, and it's just as they love plunder. I mean, we're expecting a narrative here, like some sort of story of love and betrayal and, you know, innocence lost or something. They don't really build up the whole, oh, we got to have this, these dog collards tied together thing. So it's a gimmick match that seems to exist just because. Which, I mean, it's the nasty boys, so not terribly surprised.
01:02:54
Speaker
The public enemy barely even bother to do their out-of-sync hand waving during their entrance. You complain when they're not in sync and now they're not doing me. They're doing what you want, Bob. They're not... No, what I want is for them to be in sync. I'm just saying, if they don't do it, then you don't know whether I'm in sync or not. Surrender's cat. The commentators have an extremely detailed discussion about exactly what turns something from an object into plunder in Dusty's definition.
01:03:22
Speaker
The nasty boys enter next, and in one of the weirder competing crowd support demonstrations, a chunk of the crowd chants nasty with knobs, and other parts of the crowd oppose it with out-of-sync waving. Maybe it's just really hot in there, and they're trying to get the fanning effect going. They're not very good at it. Yeah.
01:03:42
Speaker
Rock is hooked to sags, and Grunge is hooked to knobs. The Nasty choose the chains to send the enemy outside, and the teams brawl around the arena in WCW's absolutely awful split-screen view, in which two thirds of the screen are taken up by Ocean Graphics and the show logo, and one third by two tiny screens that each show one pair of the competitors so you can't follow a dang thing. Dusty nearly saves it by dubbing it the Double Trouble Bash of the Beach bubble.
01:04:10
Speaker
Yeah, that reminds me of the formatting. There was some games we could play when you play single console multiplayer, like the split screen. And I can't remember which game it was, but one we would play specifically where for the reason we were playing at three, because some wasn't available, you'd have the evenly split up script screen on the top row. And then over a third player got the whole bottom part of the screen because it didn't like split evenly. It gave them the whole section that would have been two parts. I think it was Borderlands.
01:04:39
Speaker
It might have been. I just remember we're all wanting to be third players if we get the bigger screen. Yeah. It's hard to follow this, but here's some highlights. Knobs uses an inflatable rubber shark as a weapon to Dusty's sheer delight.
01:04:54
Speaker
Sags uses a surfboard, and Rock a life preserver. Rock climbs a lifeguard stand, but Sags pulls him down by the chain, but Rock hits a front flip kick anyway. Rock goes up again, and this time Sags pulls the whole darn thing down, trapping their chain underneath the stand, so Rock has to move it to free them. Sags pile drives Rock on the concrete. Back in the ring, Rock sets Sags on the table, but Sags pulls the chain to send him down onto it, and it doesn't break.
01:05:21
Speaker
Rock angrily shoves it away and nurses his aching back. Sag sets him on the table and tries a second rope, chain-wrapped elbow drop, but the table still doesn't break.
01:05:34
Speaker
Sags whips Rock to the ropes, but his foot catches on the chain, and he goes down hard. Knobs throws Grunge over the ropes, and holds his own chain taut, for Sags to fling Rock into it for an improvised clothesline, and Sags gathers up his own chain, which came off Rock's collar, probably when it got caught in his foot, and hits Rock with it for the three count in the win. Heenan dubs that the greatest Greco-Roman power match he's ever seen.
01:06:01
Speaker
The public enemy attacked the nasty boys after the match as they're trying to unhook. Eller comes back out to help unhook things, and Rock finally uses Sag's body to destroy their true enemy, the Table. Then drops an elbow from the apron onto him for good measure before they leave. Thoughts on this one?
01:06:18
Speaker
So look, these two teams can have a fun, chaotic match where they go around and fight, go outside the ring, so they probably get a different view from, I suppose, everyone constantly fighting in the ring space. It gives the match a different feel in a lot of ways because they go onto the set and they get the props involved. They use the rubber jaw and tenta, so that's great. That's the problem. That almost slipped behind me, man. I was wondering about that one. I was worried.
01:06:48
Speaker
That's actually kind of fun for a few minutes. Unfortunately, the match is more than that. And as noted, there's definitely some issue with the finish. I don't know if I've heard anything from any of the four involved about civically what the finish is supposed to be. Presumably that bit where he's throwing off the top rope of the table would be the finish. I'm sure it felt like it.
01:07:12
Speaker
It's not clear if they had a fairly succinct match set up and then the table didn't cooperate, so they kind of improvise and then, you know, optimally improvise and so on and so forth. They don't always go well. And plus, to be fair, you're evolving props, like a chain that's like eight or nine feet. It's a pretty lengthy chain. And multiple people doing things. So I'm not going to tell you that. Trying to come up with a new finish in a match like this is easy.
01:07:38
Speaker
because obviously I've never been in an actual match before. So I feel for them in that case. Oh yeah, yeah. That was tough. Yeah. That said, the match thanks in part to the double turbo bashes of each bubble, as it is called.
01:07:55
Speaker
It's hard to follow. It's hard to focus on what's supposed to be important. There's weird bits where they're really far away and it makes sense why they had the full split screen, but eventually they fight near each other. So like if people walk out of one split screen briefly into the other, like part one, which is a weird visual, like Sag goes just to the right, for instance, and almost seems to jump from one screen to the other just because the camera shots are so connected.
01:08:19
Speaker
It seemed they never actually fully leaves. Like it actually looks like they jump from one screen to the other. At least they got out of fun with that. The camera actually does put that. We know from the beginning, even without the double dog car stipulation that Nasty Boy's public money match is not going to be our cup of tea. Obviously they have a pretty dedicated fan base from the ECW audience, both before and after the show. But obviously we were not part of that. And again, the formatting just doesn't really help them.
01:08:50
Speaker
The Nasty Boy is in a fairly controlled brawl. You can have some fun with that. Like we had with, I believe it's the Max Payne, Cactus Jack one. Not my favorite match ever by any stretch of imagination. But that had some adorable spots and stuff in it. So you can do stuff with that. Everything seemed to be working against them. The cameras, the chains, the beach tower, and even the table especially. So there's an uphill battle.
01:09:18
Speaker
I may be about to surprise you here. We'll see. OK. Considering I don't much care for the teams in this match, I enjoyed this one more than I expected. They use novel weapons, the inflatable shark being a ludicrous highlight. Yeah. And they work in some more creative spots with the lifeguard stand and tables, which helps. Some unnecessarily dangerous hits take away points, though, as does the horrid split screen. The failed table smashes looked like they absolutely hurt a ton. Oh, yeah.
01:09:48
Speaker
Like you, I think Rock going through the table from that first pull off with the ropes was the intended finish, probably. But when that didn't work, twice, they did what feels like a pretty respectable improv with that chain clothesline. So good work, if so. Honestly, if it weren't for the double trouble bash at the beach bubble making it so hard to follow,
01:10:11
Speaker
I could genuinely have said that I actually enjoyed this one. With that, it's harder to say that outright, but I can say I appreciate this a lot more than normal matches with these teams. Gotcha. I think they got much more creative than usual. Oh, yeah. I'm glad this happened on the Bachelor of the Beat show and not a more generic show where they don't have that. Right. Yeah. Them having all the props to work with, I think, was a massive benefit to them. It was like what we got on Spring Stampede. I want to say 97.
01:10:40
Speaker
The DDP. Yeah, DDP Raven. That might have been 98. But yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one for them just using the set like really well. Yeah. That's why I remember because they had a really good time using that. Then like two matches later in the main event, Sting and Savage go out there and let less with that. Yeah, they have less of a less creativity in the use of Rob's. Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:06
Speaker
Yeah, I've again, if listening to these, you know, we're in general, not big fan of Nasty Boys. I think it's in person. I'm sure they're nice fellows that have actually met them. I've seen one of them as mentioned, seen one of them briefly in passing at the Publix I used to shop at. So I think it's in that way.
01:11:22
Speaker
I know they've had matches that really played their style more. There's the famous one with Harlem Heat where they fight in session stand and it's all even with stuff having them slipping on ketchup mustard from fighting session stand. Because they weren't doing the split screen and wandering around stuff as much, it made it a lot easier to follow a chaotic fight in a weird environment.
01:11:49
Speaker
Both teams would appear at the Saturday Night Taping, again, at Sturgis, but not on the proper show itself. On plus side, both have actually won their matches. Probably going to be beat rough and ready, while the nasty boys beat high voltage, effectively. OK.
Backstage Tension and Security Concerns
01:12:07
Speaker
Mean Jean is backstage in a hallway guarded by several police officers. He says he's in front of the outsider's locker room and he has security. And if the outsiders have the unmitigated gall to attack him, he'll go right to a lawyer's office. I love, I love Mean Jean's random vocabulary. Yes. I'd imagine he'd go to the lawyer's office after the hospital visit, most likely though. Yeah, probably.
01:12:35
Speaker
Gene says he was hoping to interview the outsiders about the third man. Notably, he claims the cops there are his security, not cops guarding the outsider's room. Remember that for later. Yes. Gene says the electricity is so thick you could cut it with a knife, which seems like a pretty bad idea considering metal is pretty conductive. It's an interesting view of how elements work as well.
01:13:01
Speaker
What I really enjoyed about this segment, as brief as it was, was Okun really, again, he's really leaning into the, this is the most important show of our lifetime and everything. He gets right on the verge of being very melodramatic about the whole thing. It's like, I think on a little longer, they would have just almost gone into accidental parody, but it's just right on the edge.
01:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, he's doing a good job on this one of building up, like you said, the importance of this show. I appreciate that. Like everyone from the wrestlers to the commentary team to the backstage interviewers and all are treating this as a little different.
01:13:40
Speaker
In a lot of ways, Okerlund, with his mustache and his glasses and just his general, real dramatic reading and delivery here, reminds me a lot of Gary Owens. Most notably, he's the narrator in the second Dr. Five movie, recaps the previous film.
01:13:57
Speaker
But that was the thing you would do a lot. You'd hire him for your movies or shows. You'd go, here's the thing that happened previously. It's very important you know this thing. He had to serve the same kind of livery. If I can find a good clip, I'll post it to our Facebook page. But yeah, it just reminded me of him a lot in a fun way. I do have a question about security though. So if they're open security and they're here to protect him against the outsiders, why are they facing away from the door? That's a good question.
01:14:27
Speaker
Right? Yeah. It's not very good security if they could just walk up. It'd be funny if they did walk by, and it's curious, looking ahead towards the camera, and Oakland doesn't see them, the camera guy can't get them away, so he just walks out across the hall, getting underwater, and they don't notice them at all.
01:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's a good point. Yeah, probably means that they are not, in fact, his security and they are the role that they're stated as in later in the show. But maybe Oakland is just delusional. It's very possible. Our fifth match is Disco Inferno versus Dean Malenko from Malenko's WCW Cruiserweight Championship. Referee for this one is Randy Eller. So first off, slight correction. He is the Disco Inferno. Don't care.
01:15:15
Speaker
Okay, just saying. I don't care either, but I just feel like I'm pointing that out, because it's a weird thing to give them such a name like that. They're adding these to WSDW all the time on this show, so I'm going to just assume they're deducting them from Disco Inferno. Okay, fair enough. On Nitro, about two weeks out from this, there's a match between Dean Mlynko, who's my champion, and his apparently top contender, hard work, Bobby Walker. Nice.
01:15:44
Speaker
Disco decides to wander out towards Ringside area with his closing gold record. He also gets the number wrong a couple of times, saying how many records he sold to have a gold record. Just as an aside, by the way. Yeah. So Disco Inferno has a gold record. Yeah. Yes, he does have his own theme song, but he doesn't sing on it. He dances to it. So, like, skilled dancers can have, like, DVDs or things, sure, but a gold record is more of an actual musician thing, right? Um, generally speaking, yes.
01:16:13
Speaker
So yeah, that's very strange. Also the idea that they sold a million disco inferno CDs is really want to check those receipts. That's blatantly not the case unless disco bought him himself. But I mean, I'll accept that as wrestling exaggeration. Sure. But the fact that they apparently think that just because he is a gimmick that has something to do with music, that he would have a gold record is bizarre. Yeah. He's no Jeff Jarrett, obviously. Yeah.
01:16:41
Speaker
But yeah, so he wanders around and just causes a general distraction on how great he is, while the match is going on. Least we're briefed over Walker almost wins, although, of course, you know, they really gotta win the title. Mike ultimately wins, but he's very annoyed at him. After the match, Gino-kun's there, because of course he is. Disco says that he's there because he thought the match was boring and clearly what else did, so he just wanted to liven things up. He went to brag about selling his million CDs.
01:17:09
Speaker
Uh, the champ responds to this insult by town and do a match on pay-per-view. Okay. So it's a good lesson for you kids. I know someone and you'll get what you want. Yeah. I, I, I would say that that lesson is undercut slightly by this match itself, but well, he wanted the match. She didn't want the beating he gets in it. That's a different, different, you know, expression about careful what you wish for. There you go. Yeah. Yes. But he gets both.
01:17:36
Speaker
One last bit of buildup. Disco is fighting a different jobber. And it's not going this favor. Going this favor because, you know, he's a heel. They would suddenly play Disco's theme again. Disco himself seems confused, and the guy in the ring definitely seems confused. A different guy in a, like, white Elvis jumpsuit comes down to the ring. They're dancing around to the theme. And they lower Disco ball, like, in the middle of the ring during all this. The ref, of course, you know, goes to get this random guy away from the ring side.
01:18:04
Speaker
Well, that's going on. Disco takes the disco ball and smashes it of the guy's head, and wins the match. Okay. So, the disco inferno wouldn't match by hitting that disco ball. That's a sentence I just said. That's a more plausible weapon than some other ones will get on this show, so... Right. It's true. By the way, I'm now picturing Dean Malenko as the Wishmaster. Oh, okay. Be careful what you wish there were things. Yeah? See that?
01:18:33
Speaker
Disco's out first, and as he enters, Tony falls deep into paranoia about the third man, noting that he could be anyone, anywhere, even in the stands, even among the people around the commentary team. Disco calls for a microphone. He says everyone came to see him dance, and after he beats Mr. Personality and wins the title, he'll welcome everyone to his disco dance party. Malenko comes out to his JRPG, Evil Imperial Army music, and walks purposefully to the ring, getting in Disco's face.
01:19:03
Speaker
Malenko slaps Disco, throws him outside, and beats him up, then utterly dominates with a massive variety of moves, including two counts with a Leg Lariat, Brain Buster, Leg Bar, Drop Kick to the back of the head, and Roll Up, and wildly varied holds, mostly targeted at the legs. Disco eventually manages to land some punches and get two with a front Russian Leg Sweep, having wasted a little time checking his hair. Tony notes that he spent less time checking it than usual,
01:19:29
Speaker
I love that there's an honest-to-goodness plot point in this about Disco still being a moron, just less so than usual. Yeah, that's true. Malenko just sends him to the turnbuckle and presumes beating him down and stretching joints that Disco did not know he had. Hainan and Tony credit Disco with at least having perseverance. Disco barely escapes a kind of crucifix necklock by stretching out to touch the ropes with his toes. Dusty isn't quite sure that should have counted, but Eller gives it to him out of pity.
01:19:59
Speaker
Milenko earns two with a springboard leg drop. Disco earns two counts with a reverse neck breaker, back body drop, and swinging neck breaker, but keeps wasting time before pins. Hienan says he just needs a manager, and Tony expects Hienan will offer his services. Milenko tries for the Texas cloverleaf, but Disco rolls him up for two, and gets another two with a clothesline, but Milenko clotheslines the crap out of him.
01:20:24
Speaker
Disco dodges a dropkick and tries a backslide, but Malenko escapes, hits a double underhooked powerbomb, and locks on the Texas cloverleaf for the quick submission victory. Malenko accepts his belt and shouts to the camera that it represents the best of wrestling. It's not a dance. Thoughts on this one?
01:20:44
Speaker
Honestly, it's a decent match. I think a lot of that credit goes to Milenko, obviously. Arguably a generational talent that never quite got what he deserved because he just couldn't go to promo and didn't have those things you can't control like his height, you know, mass and such.
01:21:00
Speaker
This is still the early days of Cruiserweight Wrestling, you know, as a big thing again. So it's less of the lucha or lucha-adjacent style, like, you know, Malenko and a lucha guy, for instance, or other people wrestling summer styles. So it's no matter how Vactomatico is not just personally not the one I like as much. That said, they do an interesting job, I think, again, really on Malenko's part.
01:21:24
Speaker
of making the idea that disco for all his faults and silliness could be legit contender for a match like this and for a title. They really build up that, you know, he he's getting beaten up and get beaten up, but he's not giving up. And if he just, you know, just gets a chance maybe and really focuses, maybe he could actually pull this out. It's not, you know, a predetermined thing and storyline. Yeah.
01:21:48
Speaker
So it's a weird bit where they really try to make, at least in this one match, when it's in the disco kind of a face. He's still ultimately not completely because he's still in the disco stuff and he's dancing and checking his hair. So it's not like a face turn for him, but the match is laid out a lot more like he's a face fighting underneath like you get with like a Billy Kidman later on.
01:22:11
Speaker
It's an interesting kind of oddity, and it really speaks to how well people like Mlynka can do, is Mlynka could almost make me care, just go fight back and possibly might be able to win this match, you know. No part of me ultimately really wants him to do that, but in the match story itself, it kind of does work.
01:22:28
Speaker
I think they're I think they're doing it to show like this guy does have potential. Yeah. He's not there now. Right. And the match demonstrates quite clearly that he's not there now. But it also demonstrates that if he does become a more serious character in the future or at least be able to take a match seriously, he does have the talent and the perseverance to be able to potentially win. Now, yeah.
01:22:55
Speaker
Which I think is I think it's good for a character that is comedic. They're only going to be able to go so far if you keep them 100% comedic. Right. But if you can have the suggestion that if only they turn that off, they'd be able to go further, then at some point you can potentially. I don't think they ever really do with disco, but no.
01:23:16
Speaker
But they're setting up the potential here for them to be able to say, Disco, when he gets in the ring, turns it off and becomes an actual serious competitor. And boom, you're able to actually make him someone that the crowd can believe being a champion. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of love this one, actually.
01:23:36
Speaker
Disco does a great job of making it a genuine, if massively ridiculous, plot point that he has to remind himself to stop dancing and go for pins. Milenko beats the ever-loving crap out of Disco and demonstrates the massive amount of ways he has to take opponents down. Sure. So it actually comes together as a very nice story. Milenko is clearly the superior fighter, but Disco does have hardened determination. It's just that, as Hienan says, he needs someone to get him focused and help him hone his craft some more.
01:24:04
Speaker
Despite Disco's comedic character and despite Milenko never really feeling like he's in danger of losing his title, it really did a lot to build up Disco even en route to a loss, so I liked it a lot. Yeah, I can definitely appreciate what they're going for and how well it was done. Even if ultimately I'm not danched it in the payoff, which is Disco being a challenger for not the top title, but a title.
01:24:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm less opposed to disco inferno than you are, but he's also not my favorite wrestler. But I think you and I can both appreciate like what they're trying to do here is done well. Yeah. No, absolutely. Free for this a bit. I noticed originally when I noticed again in the rewatch Blanco was beating up disco inferno in the match and he doesn't do like the normal leg drop. We usually jump on leg drop.
01:24:52
Speaker
He steps towards the ropes, bounces off just like a little slight hop with one leg and a leg drop. Oh, right. Yeah. It's just a slight variation. I'm like, oh, that's different. Another good little variation by Milenko. Yeah. Yeah. Every time you think that you've seen the way that he doesn't move, you'll see another match with him and he just does it in a completely different way. It's a little thing, but it's a sign that there's so much more he can do than even we've got to see at this point. Absolutely amazing.
01:25:22
Speaker
Wanko's brightness champion would end the next night to her to her stereo. In turn, he booked into a match against Chris Benoit at Hogwarts, which we saw was good. Oh, yeah, that was great. Our sixth match is Joe Gomez versus Mongo McMichael with Queen Deborah. Referee for this one is Randy Anderson. They just recently brought in Mongo as the fourth horseman.
01:25:50
Speaker
At the same time, Joe Gomez is tag teaming with our favorite wrestler, the Renegade. But three weeks out from the show, harness and Ric Flair are booked against Gomez and Renegade, but they decide to beat them up backstage instead of having a match. Which I'm not upset about at all. Can't object to that, honestly. Yeah. Later on in the show, Forest may be in the ring and they'll be doing stuff, beating up, I believe, Savage or someone else at this point. Gomez would bravely run in and also get beat up some more.
01:26:21
Speaker
And he wants his revenge. He's not very good at getting his revenge, but he wants his revenge. You gotta want it first. You gotta want it first. That's true, yeah. You work at it, buddy. Yeah. This actually leads to, believe it or not, Joe Gomez and Renegade being in the main event of the go-home nitro of We're Back to Be 26. The last thing on the show was an eight-man tag team match involving all four of the horsemen filing a hands-to-wrestle together.
01:26:45
Speaker
against the team of the Rock'n'Roll Express, whom the horsemen beat up the previous week when Gomez ran to help them, and the team of Renegade and Joe Gomez. The finish would go horribly wry. The planned finish of the match is that one of the horsemen I want to say is down. So Renegade is going to take advantage of all the fighting on the outside and God being down. He's going to go up top and do a big splash and try to win the match.
01:27:14
Speaker
He knows he has to jump. Also, he knows he's supposed to be hit. And he's got to be hit in the back. The way he does it. He basically just does the jump. Either he's early or Mongo's late. It doesn't matter. Mongo tries to swing the briefcase at him, but he's already jumped. Which basically means he kind of just throws the briefcase basically past the air where he would have been a minute ago. And bring it to just a full farm flip, land from his back, and gets put in the figure four.
01:27:45
Speaker
OK, so it's possible Mongo might have been late there, but still, let's wait. Yeah. If you know you're supposed to be hit, then just like fake having your balance off a little bit. Yeah. Stand there, wait for the hit and then fall for it. Yeah. Like, you know, you're supposed to feel the hit first.
01:28:00
Speaker
Yeah. So don't jump. Yeah, it's just hilarious because he jumps and Mongo just kind of chucks the briefcase in the direction where he was. So just like flies into the ring. They've lit in anybody. Just bizarre visual thing. Wait, what? I actually want to watch like three times to figure out what's to happen. Awesome. Also note that Conan is normally seen during all this. Well, as he said, he hasn't been around long enough to build an alliance. So. I know you couldn't have said everything to be injured and Conan just takes his place.
01:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, or have him come out and make the save from Horseman Beatdown or something like that, yeah. Yeah, anything would be great. Yeah, Conan, it might not be time that's your problem. It might be your unwillingness to be helpful. That's true. But then again, he would be helping Renegade, so... Oh, right, yeah. Say what you will about him, but Joe Gomez has some awesome music. He does. Sounds like what you play for a gunfight in a Wild West movie directed by John Woo. That's fair, yeah.
01:28:58
Speaker
Mango, of course, has the amazing horseman guitar theme. Deborah comes out with a little poodle and has quite a nice purple and black dress. Tony notes that the poodle is a different dog from Mango's beloved Pepe, and bemoans the fact that Pepe is no longer good enough for Mango now that he's a horseman. Hienan jokes that Mango uses Pepe as a doorstop now, which gets a shackle out of Tony. That's a good line, yeah.
01:29:24
Speaker
Mongo hits an early three-point stance clothesline, and Dusty bizarrely thinks that Tony, calling that move, meant that that was the poodle's name. He then claims the poodle is named Dickka after the famous coach, and Tony can barely protest through laughter. Mongo yells at Gomez, but Gomez fires back with strikes and a crossbody for two. Mongo's lip is bleeding.
01:29:48
Speaker
They trade strikes and shoulder blocks until Mongo boots Gomez in the crotch, and lays in with choking and kicks. Hienan claims he always liked Mongo, and when Tony notes that basically every nitro ever serves as video evidence that that's not true, Hienan claims it was Eric Bischoff burying Mongo, and the dub was edited. I mean, in good credit, you gotta go to something. That is bold. That is very bold, yeah.
01:30:14
Speaker
Mongo earns two counts of the backbreaker and reverse neckbreaker, but Gomez rolls him up on a figure four attempt for two. Gomez's back body drop sends Mongo leg first into the ropes, which could not have felt good. No. Gomez hits strange running jumping chops and a couple drop kicks, then tries a sunset flip, but Mongo awkwardly sits on him for two. Gomez further awkwardly rolls him over for two. Mongo counters a charge with the tombstone pile driver for the three count and the win.
01:30:44
Speaker
By the end of the match, Mongo's ponytail had come loose, so he and Gomez had similar black outfits and similar loose long hair. Yes. Fortunately, one was wearing shorts and the other full pants, but I did have to pay close attention to make sure I was keeping track of them. No, I had the same issue as well, yeah. Hienan claims the poodle is Mongo's ferocious guard dog who could tear the cuff right off your pants.
01:31:07
Speaker
Tony impressively no-sells that to build up Mago as a force in WCW. The replays show a good move from Gomez, who recognizes that his feet are actually too close to the ropes after the pile driver, so he smoothly writhes in apparent pain to move them away so the pink can clearly count. Nice little touch there. Thoughts on this one?
01:31:28
Speaker
I mean, it's a pretty sloppy match. At the same time, it's longer than you think they would give this match and these competitors. This is longer than DDP's match, by the way. Yes. Not by a massive amount, but the fact that they threw Mongo out in his third ever match, practically, and it's low in that he's had, and gave him so much time against a guy who nothing against Gomez. Apparently, I looked up, he had been wrestling for about five or six years at this point, so it wasn't a complete amateur.
01:31:57
Speaker
But it's weird that like, oh, yeah, you're sure, you know, you're not experienced, but don't worry, this guy will walk it through. Not who I would have picked. Goma seems OK, but he does not seem like the sort of ring veteran that you put the absolute newbie in a match with and expect it to go well. Yeah. Yeah.
01:32:14
Speaker
They don't botch a whole lot, thankfully. But the actual action is not super exciting. There's a lot of, what are we going to do next? I'm going to whip out the ropes, then we'll do something. What now? We'll be off to do something again. Comparing other matches, even on the show, you can see how you can make a more natural flow than stop. Let's have a brief little chat so the next move is I'll throw you out the ropes.
01:32:37
Speaker
Well, and again, we've seen on previous shows, like DDP and Equalizer on 95, how you can get a performer that can take another performer that's generally regarded as not as strong in the ring or an actual rookie and make a genuine match out of it. Yeah. And this is just not that type of performance.
01:33:00
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like if they booked this more like a squash match, then actually as a competitive match like it is, they could have a lot of fun with that. They could have, you know, Amago just beats him up for a bit. Maybe he starts to make a comeback and Deborah interferes, he gets dragged to take the tombstone. Yeah. I think they are genuinely at this point trying to build up Gomez a little bit as well, which is probably why you don't get the squash match thing. Sure. But yeah, this is a rare case where I think you probably would have been better off with the squash match. Right.
01:33:29
Speaker
It's weird to, as you mentioned, seeing the attempt figure for counter enderolipin match and it's not Flair. That's true. And it's not Jeff Jarrett. Yeah. Like the two people you associated that with, it's very weird. They clearly just like tried to give their greatest hits to Mongo. Flair is probably like, you know, you have the right spot. And he just tolls on that spot and they just do it.
01:33:51
Speaker
As you noted, it's funny. To his credit, it's good in his part watching Gomez move his legs away from the ropes. It's very congenial of him to let the guy beat him like that. Well, what I like about it, though, is that he does make it look like it's a movement out of pain. No, it's true. Like he's just writhing on the mat and it just happens to go away from the ropes. That was a case where I think you actually could see his experience shining through.
01:34:15
Speaker
That's fair, yeah. Yeah, it's not a knock on him that he had to do it. It's just kind of funny, when you look for it, like, huh, if you just stay exactly where you were, he couldn't have beaten you. Yeah. At the same time, he would just pick you up on Tomb Tender again, which I don't know would have been better for you. Why is this not a nitro? Mm-hmm. Like, why is this not a nitro? This is on a pay-per-view, but as you mentioned, the Steiner's Harlem Heat Mask is on.
01:34:38
Speaker
Yeah, this is the match more than any because it sounds like the Steiner's versus Harlem Heat was not particularly long. I think it's around the same length of this match. Right. Perhaps even shorter. So I would have swapped them. I would have put this on the pre-show and and the Steiner's versus Harlem Heat on this show.
01:34:57
Speaker
The other question they have, and this is a more general question with Mongo, he always wears the same generic black and white, definitely pants, but they're between shorts and pants. They're the football shorts that folks wear under the uniform, yeah. Okay, so I get that he wears those and I get the numbers on them, but why doesn't he wear bears colors?
01:35:19
Speaker
Well, maybe because he's a bad guy now. So he's like, I'm more important than than anything. So he doesn't he's not like associate himself with his old team. Hmm. Yeah. Well, he's wearing a number of his old team. Yeah, but that's his. I know.
01:35:34
Speaker
I just think that would make him look less generic and made Elijah track in this match, especially where they had basically the same haircut and almost the same outfit. It's really confusing to have with this match, especially when they're just getting grouping up for an Irish whip throughout the rope spot and falling down to try who's who in that match. Yeah. Yeah, this was OK. The match ended up pretty basic, and I don't feel it should have been on pay-per-view.
01:36:03
Speaker
There's a few really awkward points in this and some quite dangerous looking falls as well. But at the same time, Mongo's charisma is obvious. Gomez shows some good babyface fire. So it's not like it's some kind of disaster. It's just not really an interesting watch. Agreed.
Ric Flair vs. Conan Analysis
01:36:21
Speaker
I still can't believe that they gave complete rookie Mongo the tombstone pile driver as a fixture either. Absolutely terrifying every time. Yes.
01:36:32
Speaker
Well, if they were pushing Joe Gomez, they are not anymore. He would be one of the many people that would wrestle on the Saturday night taping at Sturgis, where he'd be on the losing team in a six-man tag match against the Dungeon of Doom. Okay. We cut backstage, where Jean is with Rick Flair in Pink Robe, alongside Elizabeth and Woman, who is, one must note, actively seducing Mean Jean. Yes.
01:37:00
Speaker
I'm joined once again by Miss Elizabeth. I'm joined by woman. And please, you distract me. I can't do a job as a professional if you're going to constantly do that to me. Ric Flair, you've got to have other things on your mind this evening. An opportunity of gaining, yet, as I said earlier, another trophy for your large trophy cake. You can never have enough trophies in life. Now, Mango did it once.
01:37:26
Speaker
The Nature Boy will do it twice. And then Double A and the Crippler will take down the devil and the giant and tomorrow night at Nitro. I will be a man with a US Championship and a World Heavyweight Championship. Me and Gene LaCucaracha. Brother, it's Bash at the Beach and we are here in Daytona to
01:37:55
Speaker
and profile take a look at what's not south of the border brother but right here in Daytona it is about I'm very curious what kind of man they say that you're a man with a thousand holds
01:38:12
Speaker
Tonight, brother, you gotta meet a man that has unlimited knowledge of the greatest sport in the world. Right, Mean Jean? Do you mind if I talk to the ladies? Don't mind at all, brother. I would assume across the street at that big, large hotel overlooking the Atlantic Ocean, Elizabeth, you're gonna be throwing a little party. I know you've got some extra money in your pockets these days. Oh, absolutely. There's gonna be a great big party. A great big party? Yeah. Is it something that I should be included in?
01:38:41
Speaker
Oh, I think a woman would like that. Woman, is that true? Yes, I would. I'd have Liz tap into that big source of money she's got so we can have a private party, Jean. A private party? Yes, yes. I have no idea what you're talking about. Please, don't embarrass me. We make reference to one more point. Macho Man!
01:39:02
Speaker
We know you're focused. We know you've got great plans for later tonight. But, macho, never stop looking at that camera. Never stop thinking, wondering, and praying that someday the lovely one could be back home. Because, brother, it's never going to happen. Woo!
01:39:25
Speaker
I think, uh, Ric Flair, you have said it all, as they say in the beer commercial. My friend, not only said it all, done it all. Whoo! Conan, grab your best hold, kid. Nature boy, coming your way. Whoo! You know, woman.
01:39:41
Speaker
If anything, you know, I've got a commitment elsewhere, but I must say, if anything were to happen, you have been very, very kind to me, very attractive. I just don't particularly care for the people that you hang around with these days. Is that true? Well, I just don't believe that, Jean. I believe you have it bad for me, and you don't care who I hang with or what I do. Isn't that right, darling?
01:40:01
Speaker
Mean Jean, bottom line is, woman makes one more advance towards you. You won't be able to go back to Sarasota. You'll be across the street on the penthouse with the nature bar and the girls partying in Natona. Woo! All night long. Tell her, Mean Jean, Conan, we're fixing. Thank you. Lock that aisle. In addition to wrestling, we're going to have a little pole vaulting competition here. Let's get you back up to the ring for more action. Well, this was completely nuts. Yeah?
01:40:31
Speaker
Between a woman continually seducing Jean through the entire promo, Flair randomly singing La Cucaracha, Flair mixing up Conan and Dean Malenko, and repeated references to one or more parties and money taken from Macho Man, Flair still manages to somehow get in a lot of story, effectively building up not only his own match against Conan, but the WCW vs. the Outsiders match and the other Horsemen's match against the Giant and Kevin Sullivan.
01:40:56
Speaker
Considering just how much is going on here, it's incredible how well they do at getting the necessary points in there in a clear manner. Yeah, that's fair. I'm guessing I really don't want to know what Jean meant with that pole vaulting joke at the end there, though. I don't think you do, no. Yeah, I could do with less, you know, kind of being horny just in general in my life. That'd be great.
01:41:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny, but this is less bad than what they do in ninety nine and two thousand is. Oh, yeah, it's just more like he's a dirty old man. So true. Yeah. I just love that he mixes up Conan and Dean Blinco. Yes. I mean, you put him in a place like you can't tell him apart. That's the sad thing is it's a great line that he has. He's like, you know, they call you the man of a thousand holds, but you're facing a man with unlimited knowledge of the sport of wrestling.
01:41:48
Speaker
You know, so it's a terrific line. He just has the wrong guy entirely. He's ready for a match with Blanco. I can tell you that. Which would be cool. I mean, that would be a great match. Yeah, absolutely. Our seventh match is Dean Malenko versus, I mean, Conan versus the Nature Boy, Ric Flair, with Elizabeth and Woman for Conan's WCW United States Heavyweight Championship. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick.
01:42:15
Speaker
The post Great American Bass Nitro involved Rain Savage being reinstated after being off for a while, both of these things too dangerous. So they, at least for now, blow off the Flare Savage stuff while obviously they're still mentioning it. And then they're building up the horsemen fighting the Rock and Roll Express and later the team I've dubbed Renee Gomez. I put a T in my notes as well, so that holds. Yeah, I think that's legal. I believe so, yeah.
01:42:46
Speaker
On Nitro, there's no Conan. Just on the go-home Nitro, other than the tag matches of, you know, bottom of the stage promo, where the horsemen are just all talking about their matches. So, you know, hey, we have this tag match, we're gonna title shot. Oh, you know, manga's gonna beat up Joe Gomez there, and, you know, I'm gonna win the US title. And you're like, oh, apparently you are. That's a thing you're gonna do now. I wonder if this is partly because at this point, Conan is still working both AAA in Mexico and here.
01:43:16
Speaker
might just not have the time to do a build-up, really? Yeah. He is, in fact, still their North American champion. Which is funny, because he's got that and the US title here. So it's possible it's that. I did look up him working house shows. Thankfully, CagedMatch.net is a very thorough resource. I did find that he worked the house shows in the previous weekend before this pay-per-view. Weirdly, they gave him three house show matches to prep, and they had him fight Kevin Sullivan three times.
01:43:47
Speaker
Interesting. I guess that preps you for flair, apparently. I don't know. I know I just didn't have him fight flair three times just to prep the match for. Yeah, yeah. Little weird. Conan comes out in basically a drum major's coat, black and red. It's an interesting look. Better than a lot of his entrance gear, though, honestly. Yeah, it's true. Dusty repeatedly calls him Conan.
01:44:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's so weird. I don't know why. Why is that? It's like, have you ever heard of the Conan the Barbarian movie, Dusty? Yes. It was pretty big. Yeah, that'd be two of them. Yeah. Yeah. Dude in it called Arnold Schwarzenegger, you might have heard of him. Yeah, right. Flair, making his entrance with Woman and Elizabeth, delights in his own entrance video as it shows him doing the figure four.
01:44:35
Speaker
Notably, discussing the upcoming Horseman vs. Giant match, Tony claims that Giant is 7'4", which would mean that Arn's division was a little off. Still a great line though. It is, yeah. Conan's actual ring gear is pretty neat, with fringe on both the boots and the singlet. It's just that those fringes are different colors, so it doesn't look as unified as it should. Yeah, that's true. Still, I appreciate the effort at an interesting outfit. Yeah, sure.
01:45:02
Speaker
Interestingly, the ring gear expels his name K-O-N-A-N, missing another of the middle ends. Correct, yes. Which I think is what he did in Mexico, but I think they probably gave it two ends here to make it less likely they'd get a copyright. Yeah. The one and it's more of a one-to-one comparison for Mexico, where, yeah, I think it's just a copyright thing. Put a second in, like, oh, what are we talking about? We remember thinking, what movie? Who are we talking about? This is Conan here. What do you mean?
01:45:30
Speaker
That's what Dusty's doing, is trying to protect him further. It's Konaad. It's not Konaad, it's Konaad. He lured his lesson after arachnoman, clearly. Yes. Handshake to start. Flare gets Konaad in the corner, backs off, and gives a woo. Konaad gets one with a side headlock takeover, but Flare rolls him up for two. Konaad eventually gets Flare in the corner, but backs off, and Flare shoves him, so Konaad slaps him hard and gives a woo that's actually closer to a stinger call.
01:46:00
Speaker
Yeah. He does a more accurate one a bit later, and works the back with a surfboard, kicks in some press slams before clotheslining Flair and himself over the ropes. Elizabeth and Woman help Flair up, but Conan dives on Flair anyway, then chases Woman. Conan goes up top, preparing to leap at Flair, but Woman shakes the bottom rope, which somehow makes Conan fall, even though there's no conceivable way that should have shaken the top rope.
01:46:27
Speaker
She took it so hard, Bob, that it went down the rope and to the pole itself you're standing on. The solid metal pole. Yeah. That does not move. It's vibrational frequencies. It's very complicated stuff. Sure. Flair hits a knee drop for two and wears Conan down with help from a sneaky kick to the nuts by woman. It's a good kick too. She really winds up for that one. Yeah, she'll get 20, 30 yards on that kick for sure. Yes.
01:46:55
Speaker
He calls Elizabeth to the apron and points her out to Patrick so that he can hurl Conan over the ropes behind Patrick's back. Love it. Hey ref, she's about to cheat for me. He'll yell at her so I can cheat. Yeah. That's why you have two managers there. You might as well use them. Every heel should have two managers. Absolutely.
01:47:15
Speaker
Flair gets 4 2-counts with a stalling suplex, but Conan fires up and earns a Flair flop with strikes, sends Flair flipping to the apron, and Springboard dropkicks him off. Back in, Flair begs for mercy and sneaks in a kick as Patrick is trying to separate them. Flair tries the figure 4, but Conan small packages him for 2, then gets Flair with his own figure 4.
01:47:38
Speaker
Flair gets the ropes, but Patrick kicks his hand off. I believe he saw Elizabeth standing there and mistakenly thought she pushed the ropes towards Flair, which to be fair is a spot they often do. Flair gets the ropes again a moment later to break. Conan gets two counts with a suplex, a Flair karma into a single-hand bulldog, and a rolling clothesline, but Elizabeth distracts the ref on a Conan roll-up.
01:48:03
Speaker
Flair counters a side headlock with a backbreaker and slumps over so while Patrick checks on him, Woman somehow KOs Conan with a high-heeled shoe. Flair pins Conan with his feet on the ropes for the three count and the win. Patrick lets Woman present the US title to Flair and she gives Flair a smooch. Flair struts out with Woman and Elizabeth as Henan delights in Woo! Thoughts on this one?
01:48:32
Speaker
That was a pretty good match. I mean, you have Flare, who at this point, you know, he's not his physical prime, but obviously he's going to keep wrestling for another way longer than this. So it's not like he's on his last legs.
01:48:44
Speaker
Conan, at this point, physically, he can still go really well. He's not as used to American style, although he's been wrestling in WCW several months now, so he's got plenty of practice in late 95 when he's just starting out. I think, for me, the problem is that, as I mentioned, they didn't have these two work-out show matches as far as I can find records of.
01:49:07
Speaker
I really, really should have had Flare work those three house shows and the buildup really helped this match because there's lots of times here where like with the Gomis and Mongo match, they have to stop, do the brief little chat you do between wrestlers and then push out the ropes or push out the corner. A lot of that, they haven't worked this match five, six times and they got anything down to a science.
01:49:30
Speaker
It's definitely better than the Mongo Gomez match because of all people involved. But it has that same kind of problem where it's just not as fluid and as smooth as I would like. And in a way, it stands out more because it's flair and because it's Conan. You expect more. Yeah, you expect more from them. Yeah, exactly. There's just a little bit where they repeat. There's two different press slam spots. There's multiple bits where they
01:49:55
Speaker
Flair's managers come up on the apron, they try to distract him. And again, as they joked about, Flair does the, I'll play the figure four, oh, you reversed it into a roll-up move, which he gave to Momgo in the last match. That's why Conan knew it didn't affect him, he's taken the match before.
01:50:11
Speaker
If we had a series of Flare, Conan matches, fortunately we don't as far as I can tell, I think they could have a really good match between the two of them. If this happens, say, two years later, if we get Flare and Conan, when he's full heal and he's real experienced playing the heal like that, I could see the match being really good.
01:50:30
Speaker
Here, there's definitely the hint of what they could do. And you have Conan Mortis' physical peek just not worn down with injuries. It's happened by being a wrestler. So it is that going forward at the same time. It's just not as fluid as I would like. OK. That said, I do want to credit them for how they booked the overall D of Conan. They really protect him very well. I mean, Flair is super cheating with both his managers and the high heel shoe. And he's doing the cheap pin after he's ever been knocked out by his manager.
01:51:00
Speaker
So they really are building up that, here's all stuff I gotta do to beat Conan. So even though the match as much, the way they did it, it was good for Conan. Yeah, there's a string of kind of neat matches during this period where they put Flare up against wrestlers he didn't normally fight, and they're generally quite nice. And for me, this was no exception. Conan and Flare put together a good contest that let Conan show his stuff and blended their styles quite well.
01:51:25
Speaker
It built nicely off of Conan's earlier promo, too, with him clearly willing to go after Flare despite his managers trying to manipulate the situation. It does make Conan look quite strong in that it takes so many different cheats to finally take him down, as you noted. But there is probably a bit too much of it. Yeah. It just gets a bit funny by the end rather than tense. The ending is a little weird, too. The high-heeled chew is normally dangerous because they swing it for the eye, not because it's a knockout blow by my recollection. Yeah.
01:51:55
Speaker
Still, overall, I enjoyed this, and even if the cheating got a bit much, it was fun seeing Flair in full trickster god mode. Well, Conan did a nice job keeping up. The overall format of young, less experienced, playing a straight face against Mega Heal with his two managers and willing to take every shortcut. Flair works well as a whole. Yeah. I just think the two of them don't have enough experience working together to sort of work the kinks out.
01:52:22
Speaker
I'd agree, yeah, this is not quite the polish that you want, but like you said earlier, you can see the potential of what this pairing could be. Yeah, and the fact that we have a Conan Flare Match 96 is a definitely interesting historical note, nothing else. Yeah.
01:52:38
Speaker
One thing to note briefly is that Conan is also holding a championship in Mexico. I've seen before, he'll come out with both belts. Yeah. To look out strong and I have two different belts. On this show, he comes out with just the US belt. Unfortunately, just leave with it. But when you see him on Nitro the next night, one, he has the eye patch. Apparently they are selling the eye as the injury, apparently. Very clearly did not hit him with the eye, but and he doesn't sell the eye in the match, but no, he doesn't.
01:53:06
Speaker
Anyway, so yeah, the next show you see him with an iPad and with his other belt, so he doesn't have it. Yeah. I looked at him, he didn't lose the title for like a year and a half. Maybe he was worried that he'd leave the wrong belt there if he brought him both. That's a video, they could have had fun with the two belts and they could have had, you know, Flare tried to use the US belt and while Thruststracked to get rid of it, he takes Cone's other belt. That'd be fitting, yeah. Yeah. Have both ladies take a belt each and pin Cone in between them.
01:53:33
Speaker
Oh, there you go. Yeah. Right to itself. Weirdly, as I know, there was really any story with Conan and flair. However, there's a brief bit of story building up a match that we don't actually get. So in the buildup on nitro, we have a long match that he grow and barbarian. And afterwards, Eddie, Eddie wears the 10 minute match and then has to do a promo. So good on him. Yeah.
01:54:00
Speaker
Gene interviews him, they talk about back at Uncensored, he had a match against Conan for the U.S. title. Right. He's like leapfrogging Conan and Conan actually headbutts from the groin, which we saw in that 87-star arcade with poor Dr. Justine Williams. Oh, yeah. That was a legit one, because, yeah.
01:54:18
Speaker
But it was that and storyline leads to him losing the match. So he randomly, like three months later, he's like, by the way, I'm really annoyed with that finish. I've released tickets to get another shot at you, Conan. You know, if you win on the next show and I want to challenge you for the title, Conan. Of course, Conan's not a champion anymore, but that would lead into Eddie getting his rematch against Flair, the new champion. OK. Which is a match we saw at Hogwild. Yeah, which was quite nice aside from the one suplex spot, as I recall. Yes.
01:54:48
Speaker
Now, if you want to see an interesting case of someone being as high as you can be with that big world champion and not as low as you can be within a month period, Conan does not work hog wild. I know not champion. Instead, he works the Saturday night taping. Not quite some event, defending a US title against Rick Flair won the greats of all time to wrestling a essentially a pre-show match in one month is a pretty drastic fall. Yeah, at least he has a match, I guess. That's true.
01:55:18
Speaker
There is one slight wrinkle that does help elevate a little bit, though. So it's Conan in Chavagor Jr. before he made it big with Eddie. OK. And guess what move Conan uses to win the match? Splash Mountain. OK. Your move, Psychosis. There you go. Yes. Look what I could do. I can win the match with this. I can actually win. Yeah, see? I don't think it's a story, but that would be a good story.
01:55:48
Speaker
Backstage, Gene is in front of a door with a restricted areas sign, but walks down the hall with the cops again. He says he heard the mysterious third man speaking, and the voice springs in the subconscious. I love Gene Okerlund. But he can't quite place it. Considering he spent like a decade or more interviewing the man it turns out to be, he really should have an easier time recalling the voice. Yeah.
01:56:15
Speaker
Hienan suggests bribing a cop to find out who they saw going in. Note that these are the same cops who Jean earlier said were there to guard him, not the room, but apparently we've all forgotten that and now they've totally been guarding this room the entire time. Right. Jean goes to talk to one of the cops, but stops and accuses Hienan of getting him involved in a scam. Oh, okay. Jean, I get that bribing a cop is a bad idea, but you could just ask.
01:56:41
Speaker
It's not like they're the secret service guarding the president. They can tell you who walked through the door. Yeah. This isn't like a show in England, and you have the beef eaters standing at the door, and they're not allowed to talk. Yeah. You could just say, hey, buddy, I've been hanging out with you the last hour I started watching the match on the monitor. Can you tell me who came in there? It'd be great. Yeah. Like I said, it's just
Giant, Sullivan vs. Horsemen Dynamics
01:57:01
Speaker
funny that Gene can't recognize the voice. Yes. I really wish we could have gotten a visual for it. He walks up the door and tries to talk to the person. He knows they're in there.
01:57:11
Speaker
And, you know, like most of the dwarves, like, yeah. They just start doing their usual response from me and Dean asking the question. But both the doors like, feel so familiar. Alas, we don't get it. Our eighth match is the Horseman, Chris Benoit and Arne Anderson versus the Giant and the Taskmaster, Kevin Sullivan of the Dungeon of Doom with the mouth of the South, Jimmy Hart.
01:57:40
Speaker
If the horsemen win, one of the four horsemen, read Rick Flair, gets a world title shot against the giant on Nitro. Referee for this one is Jimmy Jett. You know, you seem so sure that Flair would get the world title shot. Why not Mongo? Uh, it seems unlikely, let's just say. You can't picture them trying to book a match where Mongo's goal is to try to tombstone pile driver the giant. No, no, no, not really. Physics don't work that way. No. Nor do Mongo's knees. Very true.
01:58:09
Speaker
What's been going on in the last few months is that there's a personal feud between Kevin Sullivan and Chris Benoit. It's really awkward to talk about, so we don't really go too much in depth with that. And this isn't one of those shows where that's as important, so we don't need to go as in depth on that. The key thing to mention is that this is the same time that Benoit has been made one of the horsemen. So because him and Sullivan are fighting and they're both parts of groups, whether one's a member and one's a leader, their respective groups are now involved.
01:58:38
Speaker
Also key dynamic is that the Giant won the world title off of Rick Flair a few months back, and is the protector of Kevin Sullivan. The D is Sullivan's like a father figure to him. You know, obviously, Sullivan's father figure is that weird stone guy, yells everything. Yes. I really miss that guy, don't you? He needed to be on so many more shows during this era. They should have had him on commentary. Oh, nice. Yeah.
01:59:05
Speaker
Yeah, so this really building up the idea that the Horsemen want a towel shot for definitely Rick Flair and nobody else. And the Giant is so confident in himself and Kevin Sullivan as the backbone slash, I guess, military man of the of the Dungeon of Doom that he wouldn't have put a towel shot on the line if they beat him or if they beat Sullivan.
01:59:26
Speaker
There's also, I think it's in the go-home nitro. There's only so many, you know, horse references you can make, and you know, from the horsemen and everything. They gave a giant line about gelding them, and I'm like, eh, they would not. Don't Google that, kids. Yeah. More Four Horsemen theme for me tonight. Oh, Batch of the Beach, you spoil me. You know you're gonna get so much of that theme you hate next show, so enjoy this. I know, yeah, yeah.
01:59:55
Speaker
As Anderson and Benoit enter, Sullivan and Giant charge down the ramp and hit them from behind. Hilariously, Sullivan does a full-on forearm strike on Anderson, but Giant just kind of like jogs up to Benoit and lightly pushes him from behind like he's catching his attention, not trying to hurt him. Okay, you dropped your phone, buddy. Yeah.
02:00:13
Speaker
Sullivan beats Anderson up and hits him with a chair while Giant beats up Benoit, but Mongo suddenly appears and hits Giant with a briefcase. Giant chases Mongo backstage, leaving Sullivan alone with the Horseman, who give him a kicking and roll him in to start the match proper. Benoit and Sullivan start, and trade blows until Benoit rakes the eyes. Giant strides purposefully down the entrance ramp, but Benoit and Anderson isolate Sullivan on their side of the ring and quickly tag in and out to wear him down.
02:00:41
Speaker
Sullivan fights back as best he can, but either a quick Horseman tag or the classic Arne Anderson fall but grab the opponent to stop a tag bit keeps him in danger. Sullivan does get a two count when Giant close lines Anderson during Anderson's DDT attempt too close to the ropes. Dusty notes that Giant almost won the match for his team without even getting in. Yeah. The Horseman meanwhile concentrate more on hurting Sullivan than going for pins, but do earn two with an Anderson counter to a leg hold.
02:01:10
Speaker
They keep blocking Sullivan's chances at a tag, but Sullivan counters a pile driver by throwing Anderson back into Benoit, though they kind of lose all momentum midway and Arne has to visibly throw himself the rest of the way. Yeah, that's true. Sullivan backs suplexes Anderson and finally tags Giant, and the crowd absolutely erupts. Benoit, too late to stop the tag, boots Sullivan out and beats him up outside.
02:01:34
Speaker
Anderson meanwhile flees from Giant, but finally sneaks in some strikes. Only for Giant to no sell, Big Boot him and Suplex him. Benoit and Sullivan fight behind the commentary team, and Sullivan slams Benoit and ramps his head into the ground, as Giant easily chokeslams Anderson for the three count and the win. Sullivan tiredly walks back toward the ring, but Benoit dives off the commentary stand onto him, hits him with a chair, and takes him back to the ring.
02:02:01
Speaker
Giant is already left, so Benoit ignores the barely-conscious Anderson and beats the crap out of Sullivan until Woman comes out and begs for him to stop before he does real damage. Giant and Heart return, and Benoit, Woman, and a dazed Arne flee as Giant hauls Sullivan to his feet and carries him on his shoulder, out of the ring, and up the ramp. For some reason, WCW's camera crew decides to film that by pointing the camera right at Sullivan's butt. Yeah, they do.
02:02:28
Speaker
Dusty wonders what woman was doing, and Henan says maybe she didn't want them to be DQ'd, suspended, or fined. Dusty shoots it down because the match was already over, which, yeah, kind of opposes the first of those three to some extent, but the other two were totally possible. Yeah. Tony points out in the replay that as Giant comes in, Arne reaches out to Sullivan, but Sullivan slaps his hand away. Tony theorizes Arne might have been checking on Sullivan. I kind of wonder if it was muscle memory for Anderson tag work.
02:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's very possible. He's down grabbing. Yeah, right. Thoughts on this? This is another interesting case, kind of like the Blanco and Disco Inferno match, where in this case it's because of the location that the heal, in this case Sullivan, really is the face of the match. Yes, yeah, very much so.
02:03:17
Speaker
Because they've been doing this thing where the giant is a heel, because the other doom are all heels, which left him at this point. But he's so strong and dominant. There's a match where it gets hit by the wooden chairs by Scott Steiner of all people. It breaks through his back and he fully no sells it. It's like, here's this unstoppable guy, and even if he's not a good guy,
02:03:40
Speaker
you just want to see him do so well. And he's a good promo as well. So he kind of slowly becoming face while Sullivan, I guess just by default in this area is, and they work to match as if he's the facer.
02:03:53
Speaker
Sullivan had a long history in Florida wrestling. So that's correct. Yeah. Worked with the grams and, uh, FCW that version of that. So I understand the reason why way. If you're like the normal, like viewing audience, thankfully with the explanation helps a little bit, definitely go weird. Like the face and peril, Kevin Sullivan fighting against the horseman is interesting.
02:04:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's good that they incorporated Sullivan's different reputation in Florida into their promos because I think that helps the viewer. That's not from the actual live crowd. No. Okay. That's why he's getting these kinds of reactions. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that they had giant mentioned it in their promo and arm mentioned it as well with nice touch. Yeah. Yeah. For as little as he actually does in the match. This definitely is the showcase for the giant. Oh yeah.
02:04:40
Speaker
They build on it very strongly with his outside interference being so powerful when he finally gets the tag. It's a no brainer that he's going to win. It is kind of funny you think about it though. Okay, so this whole match is we can just beat up Sullivan and get a towel shot. Like, yeah, but you got to beat the giant if you win a towel shot. That's true. You clearly can't beat the giant. So well, I mean, to be fair, the guy getting the title shot is Ric Flair, who we have not seen demonstrated can't beat the giant.
02:05:06
Speaker
Well, Flair's the guy that lost the title of the giant. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, that was, that was months ago. Yeah. Does that bring me to another question? Where is Flair doing all this? I know he's celebrating his win, but this whole match is to get him a title shot, right? I mean, it's probably like four champagne bottles deep in the back at this point. So. But don't worry a lot. You think he, he would have some sort of input in this match that's all about getting him a title shot. Yeah. Yeah.
02:05:32
Speaker
I do appreciate that they did the brief separation bit by using Mongo, which is nice. Again, I don't want so much interference like we got in the previous match with Flare, because like I said, that was a bit much. But having the least of presence deferred briefly is a bit more interesting. His absence is just notable. I could have dispatched his ultimate design to have the giant look really strong, see how good he is. He says it's the natural talent he has, so it gets to the point across.
02:06:01
Speaker
It does have that weird prolonged bit where they're just also beating up Sullivan more when then nothing matters at this point. But other than that, it's really good. Yeah, this was basically just Arne and memoir beating the ever-loving crap out of Kevin Sullivan for several minutes, but it was done well, especially on Arne's part. Feels so good to see the classic Anderson tag team tactics again. And we got a lot of that from this match. True.
02:06:24
Speaker
It probably could have been cut down by a minute or two, but it definitely worked to get the crowd charged up for the eventual tag to the giant. And they absolutely erupt when he gets in there. I love how dominant he ends up being once he gets in. Like you said, it makes him look incredible taking Anderson down like that. And it shows how smart the horsemen were being to try to keep him out of the ring. It justifies all the work that been building that up in the promos. Yeah.
02:06:51
Speaker
I also like the implication that Benoit's personal feud with Sullivan got the better of him towards the end, as he doesn't even look back despite knowing that Arne is now facing off against the Giant. True. Great from a storytelling perspective, good but slightly too long as a match. I agree with that.
02:07:09
Speaker
I'm wondering if they did need to have the two of them fight so far away from the ring, because they create the bivver distraction. I don't know, I guess the idea is that they're far enough away that he doesn't see the choke slam, and then we get through each other's care. I think it's a little hard to follow as well.
02:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that. Like I said, I think it's emphasizing how distracted he is by his feud with Sullivan personally. Sure. So that he allows it to go that far away from the ring. There's blatantly no chance he could get back to help Arren, and he has to know that. Yeah, that's fair. Well, since he is not fighting Arren or Chris, or as you noted, Rick Flair, for the next show, the World Champion, the Giant, will have a different challenger at Hogwild, which we will get to later.
02:07:53
Speaker
As for Benoit, I've noted he would fight Dean Malenko at Hogwild. Well, Arne would work the Saturday Night Taping when a 40 second match against you Morris. Yes. Easy payday, I guess. Tony says he doesn't know where to start in telling what's happened over the past few months, but he does know where it ends. It ends tonight. He throws to a video package covering the hostile takeover.
02:08:21
Speaker
It has the same music from the intro, but this time we do get very quiet audio from the clips that they show. Yeah. It features some text portrayed like newspaper headlines, or I guess maybe like stuff from a wrestling magazine. Yeah, I guess the idea. We see Hall's first appearance, Sting confronting Hall, Nash showing up, Hall and Nash attacking Bischoff at Great American Bash, clips of Luger, Savage, and Sting, and then the Outsiders causing trouble on multiple nitros and facing off with cops.
02:08:51
Speaker
As we fade out, text ominously ask, who is the third man? So our final match is The Outsiders, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, and a mystery partner versus Sting, Lex Luger, and the macho man Randy Savage. The referee for this match is Randy Anderson.
02:09:16
Speaker
As noted, there are key elements about the story that they really emphasize, both in the intro and especially here. You have the invasion, you have a hostile takeover, and who is the third man? After the metaphorical shots are fired, and Bishaw is taken out at Gremaker Bash,
02:09:33
Speaker
They'd sign the next Nitro to have a random drawing from a bull that would have the top six names of WCW as decided by, I guess, the fish-eating people. And they would pick the three people that would challenge the outsiders and their mysterious third man. The names in the bull were Lex Luger, Randy Savage, Rick Flair, The Giant, Sting, and Hulk Hogan.
02:09:57
Speaker
Now, we don't actually see them draw the name from a bowl. We are told that in the back, they drew the name from the bowl. You would think this big mantis thing would give some surveyor time. And that is the passing. Oh, by the way, we do the name for the team. I'm just saying, if you don't show me a bowl, the bowl is a lie. I don't believe it happened. But Al, that's how they handle almost every war games coin toss. That's true. Those are so clearly legitimate. I don't understand how you can question this.
02:10:25
Speaker
It just, it just happened that the heel was lowest when every coin toss, yeah. Notable in the buildup, not the final night trip with the night trip before. There is a three team tag title match involving the Stiner brothers, R.L.M. Heat and Lex Luger and Sting, who are the current WWE World Tag Team Champions.
02:10:46
Speaker
The outside would sort of walk out to the ringside area, which would get all the attention of everyone nearby. The rest of the ring would stop wrestling, and the armed security would surround the ring to scare off these guys with bats. While that's happening, in the back corner of the screen, you would see Stevie Ray roll up Lex Luger for the pinfall. And they also cheat, not that anyone's actually watching this happen.
02:11:09
Speaker
The pinfall happens, they roll Lex towards the ropes, and I believe it's Booker is actually holding his feet there as well, so they're guaranteeing this. Wow. So the bell rings, Luger kind of gets up annoyed that they interrupted and they distracted him. It's like when someone starts watching a show and you gotta call them to the kitchen, like, what? I'm busy. Not, oh, I just lost the world, tagged all the hope for six months. Whatever. Too many important things going on, I guess.
02:11:34
Speaker
Fair enough. At least it is Lex, the guy who accepted a Chicago street fight with people without knowing what a Chicago street fight was, and missed his own world title match because he didn't get to the arena in time and storyline. I could actually see Lex being clueless enough to not realize he just lost the title. Yeah. It took him three months to get to Summer of 793 to find out where the match was. They played bars game with them, yeah.
02:12:01
Speaker
It's just funny, like, in the middle of all these things, oh, by the way, we gotta take the tag titles off of Luger and Sting. Yeah. But not to the outsiders, cause not, well, not yet. Yeah. So let's just have this match happen and the heals win in the middle of all the chaos that no one seems to even notice it. And then let's book the tag champions and fame the titles on the Saturday Night Taping before this. Oh, well, that's important.
02:12:23
Speaker
Just because we haven't really covered the full intro to this, this all obviously opened with Hall appearing out of nowhere on Nitro despite just recently been working for the WWF and kind of implying that he was still working for the WWF. Nash shows up the next week. They continue that on until Great American Bash where WWF has now threatened to sue. So they dropped that part of the angle.
02:12:45
Speaker
Yes. Now, mind you, Scott Hall still acts like Razor Ramon. He's a hundred percent doing Razor Ramon. He still says Meng, as you love. And as we'll hear, he even uses the Scheme Gene line, which is from the WWF parroting WCW. Yeah. And it represents the Nacho Man and Trillionaire Ted, all these inside references.
02:13:07
Speaker
The implication is that there's this outside organization of some kind that's come in to try to destroy WSW. Now there's nothing actually like a hundred percent on the line with this match, right? No, correct. It's just like coming into our territory. They beat us. We look bad. Yeah. Okay. But there's no, no actual stakes. Okay. Michael buffer does our ring introductions. Probably thankful that the show isn't outside this time. So he doesn't melt in his tux. That's true.
02:13:34
Speaker
He notes that a group of outsiders, he says it that way, outsiders have threatened the sanctity of the WCW with a hostile takeover. And he says that this fight is to defend the honor and possibly the very existence of the WCW. Yeah, man, this WCW sounds like it's in big trouble. I hope they'll do okay. Yeah, right. The outsiders make their entrance to the pay-per-view theme.
02:14:04
Speaker
Heenan says he's got butterflies and compares this match to watching the verdict in the O.J. Simpson trial of all things. Buffer apologizes as despite being told that there would be three of these men, there appear to only be two. Nash and Hall. The commentators are extremely confused and worried. Sting's music starts up, but quiets down as Mean Gene makes his way to the ring and gets Buffer's microphone.
02:14:31
Speaker
when he wants to know. That's what it is. Absolutely. We need to know, right? Go, Gene, go. Yeah, there you go. Gentlemen, if I could have your attention. I don't have police protection with me at this time, but I want to confront you in front of this full house here at the Ocean Center and millions of others across the country and around the world. I don't see three men here tonight. Where is your partner? You know, scheme, Gene. Chico.
02:15:01
Speaker
You know too much already. All you need to know, little man, is he's here and he's ready. Well, if he's- Wait a minute. Where is he? Is your partner telling me that your third man is in the building? Oh, he's here all right, Gene. Let me tell you something.
02:15:21
Speaker
We got enough to handle it right now, right here. Oh, for quite, come on. Oh man, I'm gonna take a look. Come on! They cannot handle that three guys. Yeah, okay, let's send three out and just kick their teeth in and get it over with. There you go. Sting's theme starts up again, as Heenan asks if WSW has been scammed. Luger, Sting, and Savage make their way down the ramp, looking determined. Even Heenan cheers for them.
02:15:51
Speaker
Hall and Luger get in a shoving match as the WSW team clearly questions where the supposed third man is, heeding questions that the outsiders really think they can win with a 2 vs 3 disadvantage, and Dusty smells a plot.
02:16:07
Speaker
Luger and Hall start,
Team WCW vs. Outsiders Tension
02:16:08
Speaker
and Luger knocks Hall around and even slugs Nash, but Hall subs him through the ropes. Nash grabs him from across the turnbuckle. Sting comes to the rescue with a stinger splashed to Nash, but that presses him down onto Luger onto the turnbuckle. Sure. Luger and Nash fall off the apron, but Luger is out cold.
02:16:28
Speaker
As Savage beats up Hall in Nationalized Dazed, Sting goes to check on Luger. EMTs come out with a gurney and load Luger onto it. We get a replay, and Dusty claims that Luger hit his head on the ring post. The replay has a better angle for that claim. In the original shot, you can tell nothing of the sort happened, but in the replay, they shoot it from behind Sting instead, so you can't clearly see what happens to Luger, so they can claim whatever they want. They really should have shown it from that angle to begin with.
02:16:59
Speaker
Hall sneaks over to try to attack Luger, but security wards him off, and Sting stands guard as the EMTs retreat with Luger. Hall and a recovered Nash wait for Sting to return. It's Sting versus Hall now, and Hall slaps Sting. So Sting gives this amazing, well, time to beat the crap out of Scott Hall kind of expression. And proceeds to do just that.
02:17:23
Speaker
Tag to Savage, but Hall punches him out of midair and uses Stink to distract Anderson, so Nash can hit Snake Eyes on Savage. There's a great bit there where Anderson goes over to get in Nash's face and question him, but to get in his face he has to climb up on the ropes. Savage manages a clothesline on Hall for two. Hall tags Nash, and Savage lands punches, but Nash slams him down and tries an elbow drop.
02:17:49
Speaker
Savage was clearly supposed to dodge, but the timing is off, so Nash lands ribs first on Savage's head. Oh, yeah. Absolute miracle that Savage's neck wasn't broken there. Yeah. And it didn't look very pleasant for Nash's ribs either. Yeah, remind me a lot of that Starrcade one. Oh, the Vader and... The Nightstalker where he starts to sit up for Vader to splash him at him. Oh, it looked like it hurt so bad.
02:18:17
Speaker
Savage understandably tags out immediately, and Heenan brilliantly makes the botch part of the story by worrying that Savage might now be out like Lex Luger. Yeah. Dude, I think he was supposed to make the tag anyways. Probably, yeah. I think that he was supposed to dodge, cleanly make the tag, but he definitely needs the tag now. Yeah. Nash catches Sting with a knee strike and beats him down as the commentators talk about sending a wrestler out to replace Luger, which would be massive cheating. Tony openly says to ignore the rules.
02:18:47
Speaker
Nash chokeslam Sting, and Henan says, we're in deep sh... sand. Good save, Henan. Yes. Hall and Nash trade off beating Sting up, using Savage to distract Anderson for some double teams. Hall earns two with a fall-away slam. Sting hits a nasty dropkick on Nash's thigh later on, but Nash tags Hall to stop Sting. Sting rolls him up, but Savage accidentally distracts the ref, so that only gets one.
02:19:16
Speaker
Tony roots for Sting and Savage to injure Hall or Nash. Kick a man while he's down, he cries. They're easier to reach, Heenan adds. Hall gets leverage from Nash on an abdominal stretch and even switches places with Nash behind the ref's back, but Sting keeps his arm up on the third check.
02:19:37
Speaker
Hall and Nash earn further two counts with a hard Hall clothesline, Hall discus punch, and Nash sidewalk slam, but Sting, even in a daze, just won't stay down. Sting finally manages to stun Nash with a kick, then lands chops and punches while dodging Nash's swings. Sting decks
Hulk Hogan's Heel Turn
02:19:55
Speaker
Hall, dives at Nash, and drives him back just far enough to tag Savage. I love that spot.
02:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, the positioning is very perilous, though, because he's diving the corner. He almost gives himself this stun gun to make the deck. They actually do go down on this one rather than him just driving him back. So yeah, it's a little perilous. Savage hits a double axe handle. It looks like Hall was in position a tad too soon for it. So there's a bit of an awkward pause. Yeah. And he runs Hall into Nash, then throws Hall out over the top rope as Anderson quite suddenly looks away for no reason. Yeah.
02:20:31
Speaker
Savage continues beating both up, but Nash slugs him in the crotch. With both men down, Anderson starts counting. Suddenly, there is a massive cheer. And we cut to the ramp, where Hulk Hogan is striding purposefully down. Tony and Dusty celebrate. Yeah, but whose side is he on, he didn't ask, to Dusty's consternation. Hogan climbs in and tears his shirt as Nash and Hall retreat.
02:21:01
Speaker
Hogan pauses, slowly walks along the ropes, and looks out at the crowd for a long moment. Then Leg drops Savage twice. A small few fans actually cheer, but most of them seem shocked. Hogan welcomes Hall and Nash into the ring, tosses Anderson over the ropes, Leg drops Savage once more, and pins him as Hall counts three.
02:21:30
Speaker
Dusty says, Hogan flushed the career of a lifetime down the drain and made a deal with the devil. The match is officially a no contest. Hogan, Nash, and Hall pose in the center of the ring as booze start spreading through the crowd and people start throwing trash. Hienan is happy to see people throwing trash at Hogan. Tony thinks Hogan has been planning this since 1994.
02:21:58
Speaker
Sting and Anderson help Savage out of the ring as garbage rains down. Notably, the WWE Network version edits something out. A fan rushes the ring, gets past security, and approaches Nash. So Nash decks him, and Hall stomps him as the outsiders kick him out. Oh, I don't know what the guy was thinking he was gonna do. He gets in the ring, he's, you know, face to upper torso with Kevin Nash, and Nash just clocks him. Yeah, right.
02:22:29
Speaker
It's like, I don't know what you expected, dude. Good move by Dash there because you don't know what that guy was going to plan. Oh, yeah. No. You know, when someone rushes the ring, they had to do what they had to do. Absolutely. Why don't we talk about the match up to the ending first and then do comments about the ending separately? They're kind of separate things, right? Yeah. And I decided with that. All right. So thoughts on the match itself?
02:22:53
Speaker
As a whole, I liked it with the extra tough beginning, like the promo bit and just how they really sell how serious it is. It definitely continues this feel that even again, even though there's no actual stakes to this match, that this is this big moment and this is a big fight. It's really well done the way they do that. Even if you know, you're not the biggest fan of how, what they do with the anime story, the way they sell the beginning of it is very impressive. Absolutely. Yeah.
02:23:23
Speaker
As to the actual match itself, it's fairly uneven in point. I still call it really good though. So for instance, it's smart that they make all of Nash look really strong and a lot of it is done through cheating. Like when they switch out or they're abstracted and they body slam. Staying French is probably some savage. For the most part it's not, hey, we're this indomitable force you can't beat, at least without cheating. You need to really emphasize that with them.
02:23:50
Speaker
But there's little moments there where, I don't know if it's timing issues or what, but like, okay, so for instance, after Savage's failed roll out of the way of the elbow drop and tag out, Sting comes in and you're like, okay, Sting's gonna take over and then he kind of looks at Nash and just get knees in the stomach and goes down like, oh, you didn't have a plan really, did you?
02:24:10
Speaker
That's one where I imagine that Nash was probably supposed to be up faster, but I think he's legitimately nursing some hurt ribs too. Sure, sure, yeah. And again, this is not the most important part of the match, but this little thing where it just feels like they build to a tag and then it just doesn't really go anywhere for a while. I think with the second tag out there was Savage goes for a bit until the image is nice. Other than the feel of it, there's nothing too different. I mean, you still have the abdominal stretch assistance spots.
02:24:41
Speaker
You have them switching without even making a fake tag, which is a little weird. They just switch out and afterwards, they're like, each tag, he's like, yeah, of course we did. Like, but, ref, you could've heard it. This is Kevin Nash, though, man, that would later convince someone that he powerbombed someone, so. That's true, yeah. He has a plus five proficiency in charisma, so I guess that does help.
02:25:04
Speaker
As a whole, again, I still like the former of the match. They really sell that these guys worked together. They managed to get Savage who's, you know, the unhinged one in the group to constantly try to get in and then you take advantage that way. And I like that the final like stop point isn't them legit taking over for Savage again. Cause if they feel like they legit took Savage down again, then it looked like Savage couldn't possibly ever stop them.
02:25:31
Speaker
It leaves it in an even place. Right. Yeah, which is kind of cool. That said, as you know from the time we watched it originally and time since, I take great issue with how they pulled off the whole Luger is knocked out situation. Yeah. They don't do it well. They have to plan this really important spot for a major match. Don't take away from how hard that is to do and how to pull it off correctly.
02:25:56
Speaker
But it's also so important to the batch and story, and it's like, you stinger splashed Nash, who had a front headlock on the guy. Nash takes all of the impact on his side. But Luger, like, the shock waves not come out? That's... Yeah.
02:26:11
Speaker
I like Dusty's explanation for it, but for me it really is just a camera angle thing. If they had shown the initial hit from the same angle that they showed the replay from, where you can't see what happens with Luger's head, then Dusty saying, oh my gosh, he hit his head on the ring post.
02:26:29
Speaker
That would work. I think that would work for me then. But the problem is that they initially show it from an angle where you can absolutely tell that all he gets is like he gets some of Nash's weight down on him for a bit, but which is probably not pleasant. But sure, it doesn't it does not look like a knockout blow, even with it being the Stinger Splash. Right. It's a case of in the moment, I don't think it played out like they wanted to. So you want to do an angle where the guy doesn't look like he takes a serious injury, but obviously you don't want him to take a serious injury. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
02:26:58
Speaker
But yeah, as it is, I try watching like, yeah, that doesn't really look anything half. But OK, point A is Stinger Splash and Corner and point C is Luger taken out and can't be the match. It's just getting between those two points doesn't quite play out for me. Yeah. But I'm willing to accept that as part of the match itself. It's not a deal breaker. It's a it's a fine story concept. Yeah. And like even the plan for it, I think, is actually OK. It's just that it doesn't go off quite the way they wanted it to.
02:27:29
Speaker
The Commanders tried to sell the idea that they were taken out inadvertently by their own men as a real psychological disadvantage. I get that. I don't think Stigness really wrestles like, oh, I'm conflicted about what I accidentally did. But at the same time, he's already got to wrestle this match that's supposedly for the fate of all mankind.
02:27:48
Speaker
And to be fair, he does look more ticked off against the outsiders. So I think he I don't think he necessarily portrays, I blame myself, but he definitely does portray, I blame the outsiders for them having Luca in that situation or something. Yeah. I think you get the you still get the sense from him that he reacts to that spot.
02:28:08
Speaker
Right. And it's also a case of where, because as a recall, they don't do too much with that. It's not like there's hostility between the two of them or there's doubt and stings mind because this all happened because, you know, I messed up or. Yeah. Because there's no real follow up to this. It's just a way to have Luger in the match. And to his credit, we get to hear Luger's ex Luger selling for his brief. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah.
02:28:31
Speaker
if shouting full force while punching and being punched. That's great. It's just a shame that they, again, this key moment in the match and the story isn't played off right because they focus on his safety, which I 100% agree with. And there's no real follow up to it. It's just a weird moment to excuse to get Lugar out of the match super quickly.
02:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely a moment that feels like it is bigger than it's actually used to be. Right. There's also a little bit in the aftermath before Dusty decides that it was some horrific injury. So you can hear in his voice, you kind of think he thinks something is up with this, like Luger is still taking out really quickly. He's like, wait, what's going on here? This was more about the moment than the match, but they actually put on quite a good tag match here all the same. Yeah.
02:29:21
Speaker
There's some strange moments, notably, as you said, Luger's elimination. And there's a few botches, but the match as a whole is exciting and all four guys, Sting especially, do a great job showing the emotion of the match. Sting is also no surprise, an amazing face imperil, managing to look out on his feet in the later stages, but still hit every spot perfectly. This really builds up Hall and Nash, which is very necessary, considering they're going to be huge villains for WSW for the next year and a half at least. Yeah.
02:29:52
Speaker
They come off as powerful, able to immediately, believably face WSW's best fighters, and beat up Sting to an almost Vader-like degree. But, still without Sting or Savage ever feeling weak. It's a really good main event, and the emotion attached to it makes it really intense. As you pointed out, I like that it kind of ends evenly rather than one side looking like they have the advantage before the ending kicks off. Absolutely, yeah. Speaking of the ending, what's your thoughts on the ending?
02:30:22
Speaker
It's interesting having Hogan to run out because he hasn't been mentioned other than he's one of the six people in the drawing. I think he's been away from Nitro for at least a month, I believe. I think the most they give you is like there's a little video package of what he's been up to while he's been away. Right.
02:30:39
Speaker
But there's no, like, bitch where he's, like, talking about, you know, her what's going on in the dubs to be brother and I gotta come back and take care of this. Yeah. I absolutely see the heat in mindset. Plus the fact that he, you know, famously hates Hogan in character. Hogan just appearing out of nowhere running out there.
02:30:57
Speaker
You know, he's not coming out after Luger's down. He's at their far after Luger's down. He's just kind of running out at the end and is still missing a third man. It's absolutely understandable why. He goes, yeah, but whose side is he on? That famous line. Which, as you know, they cut from the immediate video release, like the VHS releases, because they thought it spoiled things. But it's been restored in every other format since, because it's so notable.
02:31:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, people claim that Hienan accidentally gave it all away with his butt whose side is down, but I think that's just hindsight talking. Like, yeah, agreed. I really doubt anyone watching this live heard him say that and thought anything more of it other than Hienan always hates Hogan and always implies that he's untrustworthy. He talks about that for every Hogan appearance that he commentates from Hogan's first appearance in 1994 to now.
02:31:46
Speaker
Right. Also, notably, it's important for context. He's saying that in commentary. He doesn't say that in an interview. So a live crowd doesn't hear this. Right. That's also true. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a big thing because he said it somehow the audience there hears, which is obviously not true. No. Yeah.
02:32:06
Speaker
anyone who says, like, oh yeah, he didn't give us it all away there. It has not paid any attention to Bobby Heenan for the past two years. In which case, shame on you, you've missed some good commentary performances. Have, yeah. Well, the other thing for context is that, so he's saying that while Hogan's jogging out, time from Hogan jogging out to the leg drop is like... It's short, yeah. Yeah. You might go, that's for when he says that. Wait, what?
02:32:33
Speaker
I don't know, it's interesting, you made a point to note that he sort of, he has that pause, he looks around, and then his leg drops a nice bit as well. Like, that's probably Terry Belay of the actual man going, I'm really sure I'm gonna do this? All right. Yeah, yeah, I don't think that's part of the act. I think that's Hogan having a last thought of, is this really right for my career? Right.
02:32:57
Speaker
It's interesting because you do have to consider for a moment that the monumental changes is going to be. Oh, yeah. That Hogan has been a face for I think about 15 years at this point. Yeah. Like not just a face, but a super face.
02:33:11
Speaker
Obviously we know that the NW angle is a massive success for WCW in the end. Their shirts and their stuff sell like hotcakes, make a ton of money. Sure. But at the time, think about this in context of a Hogan heel turn. Think about what a heel has been for Hogan. You get a good run, you get a few paper views against whoever the top face is, which is usually Hogan. Yeah.
02:33:34
Speaker
But then you're vanquished, you go back to the midcard. And if you're lucky, your character gets tweaked and you get popular in your own right again, but there's no guarantee. Right. So, yeah, I don't think there's any surprise that Hogan might have needed a moment to think, am I really about to do this? Well, yeah, well, look at even the very recent booking that was done for him. I mean, Ed Lessing's his buddy, turns heel on him, gets that terrible Starrcade man. Oh, the worst.
02:34:02
Speaker
And then he comes to Zodiac and then Bootyman, he's gone through three or four of these things after he healed and they went nowhere. Even with Hogan's support, you know, as politicking for his buddy, there's nothing happening to that. Or you look at the very same thing with John Tenta coming out, you're the, you're the shark and you lose and yeah, no, absolutely.
02:34:22
Speaker
This is one of WSW's most famous and justifiably praised twists. It isn't 100% perfect, and I'll get to that, but Hogan coming out, getting a huge crowd pop, only to portray his pal Savage and WSW as a whole, is an absolutely amazing moment. Yeah. The weird thing about it is, why does Hogan throw the ref out? Yeah. He is technically a legal participant in this match.
02:34:51
Speaker
He could just get a legit tag from Nash. I'm pretty sure he was the legal man at the time. Or, you know, just ignore that because that always gets ignored. Yeah. And then pin savage for the actual three count. There's no reason WSW can't just straight up lose this match. It's okay. They got betrayed. Absolutely, yeah. It even make the forthcoming NWO even bigger villains.
02:35:13
Speaker
It would make sense that he throws the ref out if Anderson more visibly refused to count for him. Yeah, sure. But he just seems distressed and confused, not actually refusing. Well, yeah, I could picture it playing out. OK, so Hogan comes in, does his two leg drops when he goes with what are you doing? You know, what are you doing? You make either crowd can hear him or he can, for at least you can see him. You know, it's big, rough, pantomiming. I know it's like I'm third man, like really flash the back three, like the fourth ensemble. You know what I mean? Yeah.
02:35:42
Speaker
having like, sort of cockily walk over to the corner, tags Nash walks over and, you know, put the foot on him or does a straight pin on. Yeah. Yeah. And the reference like getting this like dirty look but has to count the pinball. Yeah. It's interesting to note that this is like this huge moment defining moment for the company, for better or for worse, how throw them to play out. And there's no finish yet. It's true. From how the pin goes, it's pretty dang evident it would have been a legit three count. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.
02:36:09
Speaker
But still, it's bizarre that they decided to go that way with it, that they didn't just give their new massive heal faction a actual win. No, that's a good point. I think about that as well. Yeah, why is this a no contest? It's just very strange. Otherwise, I really liked this ending. I really like how it went. And it's fascinating psychological analysis of Hogan as well. No, absolutely, yeah.
02:36:33
Speaker
Mean Jean climbs into the ring with the drink cups and other trash still raining down and approaches Hogan. Hulk Hogan, excuse me, excuse me. What in the world are you thinking? Mean Jean, the first thing you need to do is to tell these people to shut up if you want to hear what I got to say.
02:37:06
Speaker
I have been with you for so many years for you to join up with the likes of these two men absolutely makes me sick to my stomach.
02:37:20
Speaker
And I think that these people here and a lot of other people around the world have had just about enough of this man, this man, and you wanna put yourself in this group, you've gotta be kidding me. Well, the first thing you gotta realize, brother, is this right here is the future of wrestling. You can call this the New World Order of Wrestling, brother.
02:37:47
Speaker
These two men right here came from a great big organization up north. And everybody was wondering who the third man was. Well, who knows more about that organization than me, brother?
02:38:04
Speaker
I've been there, I've done that. You have made the wrong decision in my opinion. Well, let me tell you something. I made that organization a monster. I made people rich up there. I made the people that ran that organization rich up there, brother. And when it all came to pass, the name Hulk Hogan, the man Hulk Hogan, got bigger than the whole organization, brother.
02:38:30
Speaker
And then billionaire Ted Amigo. He wanted to talk turkey with Hulk Hogan. Well, billionaire Ted, promise me movies, brother. Billionaire Ted.
02:38:46
Speaker
Promise me millions of dollars. And billionaire Ted, promise me world caliber matches. And as far as billionaire Ted goes, Eric Bischoff and the whole WCW goes, I'm bored, brother.
02:39:05
Speaker
That's why these two guys here, the so called outsiders, these are the men I want as my friends. They're the new blood.
02:39:18
Speaker
of professional wrestling, brother. And not only are we gonna take over the whole wrestling business with Hulk Hogan and the new blood, the monsters with me, we will destroy everything in our path, me and Gene.
02:39:36
Speaker
Look at all of this crap in this ring. This is what's in the future for you if you wanna hang around the likes of this band, Hall of this band, Nat. As far as I'm concerned, all this crap in the ring represents these fans out here. For two years, brother, for two years, I held my head high.
02:40:04
Speaker
I did everything for the charities. I did everything for the kids. And the reception I got when I came out here, you fans can stick it, brother. Because-
02:40:21
Speaker
If it wasn't for Hulk Hogan, you people wouldn't be here. If it wasn't for Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff would be still selling meat from a truck in Minneapolis. And if it wasn't for Hulk Hogan, all these jotty cum lately's that you see out here, wrestling wouldn't be here. I was selling out the world brother while they were bumming gas to put in their car to get to high school.
02:40:50
Speaker
So the way it is now, brother, with Hulk Hogan and the New World Organization of Wrestling, brother, me and the new blood by my side, what's your gonna do when the New World Organization runs wild on you? What's your gonna do? What are you gonna do? Don't touch me, I'm gonna flee the lawyers. Cody, Bobby, Dusty, dammit, let's get back to you. All right, we have seen the end of Hulkamania.
02:41:23
Speaker
for Bobby the brain. He didn't for Dusty Rhodes. Gene Okerlund. I don't know. I'm Tony Schmani. Hulk Hogan you can go to hell. We're out of here. Straight to him.
02:41:43
Speaker
Hogan delivers this massive, industry-changing promo. While trash is raining down, so does splashing over him, Gene and the outsiders, and just after a fan was incensed enough to actually rush the ring. To say that it's a distracting environment would be an understatement. Absolutely, yeah. And that's without taking into account the fact that, again, Hogan is taking a massive, risky change to something that had worked well for him for 15 years. And it's a great promo.
02:42:13
Speaker
It is. Yeah. It's bitter, angry and arrogant, instantly turning the Hogan character from superhero to super villain and naming and accidentally briefly renaming and setting up the NWO as the heel faction for WCW. Say what you want about Hogan. The man can talk.
02:42:32
Speaker
He's very confident, yeah. Yeah. I particularly love the improv on Gene and Hogan's part of involving the trash that's getting pelted into the ring in the promo. Yes. Really great work. And bonus points to Nash here for playing bodyguard and batting sodas out of the air.
02:42:50
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny. Nash we've covered has a very understated integral role in these kinds of things. Cause he's the one that's got to hold that cake at the next show. Oh, right. Right. Right. Yeah. That whole time that they decided to put it in the corner in a box and he's got to hold it there. Yeah, that's true.
02:43:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, again, regardless of how you feel about how the end of the story plays out over the next three, four years and how, you know, all these things that we did wrong because they wouldn't change or they change too much or all these things that happen. This moment as a whole is Hogan becoming this new character.
02:43:27
Speaker
taking the shell off of Hulk Hogan's baby face, say your prayers, you know, your vitamins, all that, and just becoming this bitter, angry guy. It's done in a way that his anger is not warranted, which is what makes him a good heel. Yes, yeah. His anger is that, look, you know, I made company a bunch of money, which they paid me.
02:43:50
Speaker
And then I came here and he paid me more money, but he don't give me enough stuff to do, so I'm bored. So I'm going to retrade the company that is still paying me, by the way, and for a new company that's going to apparently destroy there from the inside out and or take over or replace them.
02:44:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating, the look at this character that he's developing here. And just to go back to our earlier thoughts about the Hogan psychology here, it's interesting. He shows a lot of hesitation before the leg drop, but once he's decided to do this, credit to him, he goes all in.
02:44:25
Speaker
Like he could have done this promo in such a way that there was some wiggle room. Yeah. Where he didn't like really get on the fans or anything like that. But I mean he goes full tilt. I hate WCW. I hate you Mean Jean. I hate the fans. I hate the WSW wrestlers. I hate Eric Bischoff. Like he just bulldozes his entire character to this point.
02:44:50
Speaker
If this didn't work, you could not have just like gone, you know, oh, a month later, oh, this isn't quite working. Let's just turn him back into regular Hulk Hogan. Yeah. Right. You can't do that. Like they can manage it kind of like, you know, what is it? Two, three years down the line that they've done. Yeah. Yeah. Late 99. I think that right before road wild. Yeah. They can turn him back then. But that's like two years down the line from this moment or three years down the line from this moment. Yeah.
02:45:19
Speaker
And that's how long it takes for there to be enough distance between this promo and Hulk Hogan that you can have fans potentially treat him as a good guy again. He's the guy at the party who trips and everyone laughs at him. He goes, screw you, screw you. He's yelling and swearing and saying, I always hated you. I never liked you. And breaking a lamp and then running out the door and slamming it shut.
02:45:44
Speaker
There's no, you can't be that guy and go back and go, gosh, I was really sorry. I was drinking. Is it okay? Can I go back in? Yeah. It's that same level of, let's say, scorched earth of this character. And this mindset that had been his for, yeah, again, like 15 years.
02:46:01
Speaker
which I think is necessary. I think they had to go this far with it, right? Cause you see actually like in the last moments of the match, as I pointed out, there's a few fans that actually do cheer briefly.
Post-Match Reflections and NWO Impact
02:46:10
Speaker
And I think for those fans, it probably is. Oh, Hulk Hogan just did something. Hulk Hogan's the good guy. Of course it's right. So yeah, I think him cutting this promo ensures that he fully turns the crowd on him except for the bikers at Sturgis, who apparently missed all of this. Apparently so.
02:46:28
Speaker
I think him going this far was really bold, but also really necessary. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. There's no shit to the grade of this. There's no nuance to it. It's, you know, I've given him everything I wanted, but now I'm bored. So I'm going to join these two strangers and just wreck your company. Yeah.
02:46:50
Speaker
I'll give a brief shout out to our former president George H.W. Bush for coined the phrase New World Order in a speech I believe in 1992. If I can find the audio clip, I'll post it. It's important to remember in a weird way that this guy who won nothing to do with the Simpsons, let alone wrestling where they were swearing in violence, indirectly gave them the name of their biggest organization of all time.
02:47:18
Speaker
History is weird like that as well. Yeah. Yeah. So coming off of this, of course, Sting is very off at the outsiders for what they did, uh, he did sort of, but so that leads to a big tag match at hog while between the outsiders, staying in Luger, who recovers from this horrific, not really an injury in time to wrestle a match.
02:47:41
Speaker
Meanwhile, on the Fall of Nitro, the Giant would call out Hogan because he's the guy I wanted to be like, which is ironic because his storyline is, my dad under the Giant was screwed by you so I want to kill you, but apparently I also wanted to be you. It's an awkward line, he tries to walk in that promo. But basically Hogan is the prototypical wrestler he wanted to be like. So he takes it really personally.
02:48:06
Speaker
giant gives the, the wrestling equipment of the I'm two weeks away from retirement, uh, line. He challenges Hogan to the top match. It's not Hogan that challenges him. And he says, you know, look, as long as I hold the world title, everything is going to be fine. Yeah. Oh boy. He just started having the foot, buddy.
02:48:25
Speaker
Yeah. I love some of the promos that happen over the next few weeks, not just the ones we've covered with the giant that are amazing. I know there's one that Ray Mysterio gets where he says he betrayed us. He takes it really personally. He does, yeah. And Kevin Sullivan's, I think, is great, where he's like, I wanted to destroy Hulkamadia, but I couldn't because he destroyed it himself. Yes, yeah. He's like, he's really hurt. Yeah. I didn't get to kill you. Yeah, right.
02:48:54
Speaker
I appreciate that this again goes to the making the end of something very different. The whole company reacts to this, to Hogan's turn and the formation of this Mega Heal group.
02:49:07
Speaker
in a way that you don't really see happening for any other factions in WCW. Even the Four Horsemen, their treaty has a big deal whenever they form, especially the early incarnations of them, but the Four Horsemen even don't get this whole, the company stops to consider the magnitude of what has just occurred, because the Four Horsemen are not trying to kill WCW.
02:49:30
Speaker
That's true. They're trying to dominate WSW. They're trying to have all the titles, but they're not trying to end the company. The NWO are trying to end the company. That's their stated goal. Exactly, yes. It makes sense that it is like this monumentally huge deal for people in the weeks to come.
02:49:47
Speaker
Yeah, like the forest men, you know, they'll, again, they'll control like the titles. Someone who's going for those titles will care. But if you're outside in your own thing, you know, if you're Ron Bass and someone else, you aren't going to cut a promo on Jimmy Valiant, for instance, and go, but that flare, I can't even betray the end of the way that I'm going to take him out. Anyways, that's this thing. Yeah. It's definitely different.
02:50:09
Speaker
And like Flair always has a pretty good relationship with the commentators or announcers, backstage interviewers and stuff. Yeah. So they're a huge faction and they're really dangerous, but they're also fundamentally they are part of the company. Yeah. That's the difference with this angle. Agreed. Yes. All right. Let's take a look for a moment at some what ifs.
02:50:33
Speaker
I think the one you and I have both heard as a possible backup if Hogan had decided in the end not to do it is at least rumored that the backup plan was Sting. Right, correct. Yeah, so what's your thought on that as a possibility? It would have been a harder sell for sure. Again, the angle is here's these two guys that came from WWF and we implied that they worked for them until very recently. We had to change our mind.
02:50:57
Speaker
So Hogan being a recent hire connects well onto that. You'd have to find a really good explanation for Sting to say why he's a train in the company. Like, because, you know, it's not like he's been depushed or, you know, he's not on the shows. Obviously he's named when this top six are in the company and he gets strong with this match. It's not like he could go, Oh, you know, you guys don't care about him anymore. I haven't had world title shot in six months.
02:51:24
Speaker
Yeah, closest you can get is maybe there's a few points because of the whole Sting and Luger best buddies angle, where Sting gets a kind of a mixed reaction at times, but people still clearly love Sting. Yeah, I think the most you could do is essentially the detached Sting they eventually get with this angle. I could see that, like, you know, you guys don't trust me, so I'm just gonna go off my own and maybe I'll help Luger, but yeah, you'd have to really find a creative pitch for this. And I'm not sure what it would be.
02:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, I'm in agreement on that. I think it would be hard to justify from a story standpoint. From a reaction standpoint, it would be massive. Yeah. He's the only guy that I think you could do as the third man who would get as big a reaction as Paul Kogan. Yeah. You could theoretically done like a flare or something like that, but flare people are used to booing. Right. Sting, they don't. Hogan's the superhero. Sting's the superhero. Right, yeah. The third man, I think, has to be a superhero for this to get this big reaction.
02:52:24
Speaker
It has to be a dagger in your side, yet twisted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, storyline, I could see a pitch for flair if you had no other option. You know, flair is so self obsessed that he, he's willing to destroy the company or very least join these guys or form the NWO and take over and replace the company. So we'll, we'll, we'll make this company in my image, these people and the other serious backers and whatnot. Yeah. But to your point, it wouldn't have the same crowd reaction. It's not betrayal.
02:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, it wouldn't be this huge impact. It'd be surprising, but it wouldn't be this huge impact. I think the NWO under Flair would end up a slightly more intense version of the Four Horsemen. Yeah. Where the NWO under a Hogan or Sting is this shocking betrayal type of thing. Yeah. But like you said, Hogan has the much better story justification there. Okay, so one person I can make a pitch for, I think it's a little rejigging as they say, but
02:53:21
Speaker
We could do it with the same storyline, just moving the match bit around. Match starts out the same way, but the guy in the opening salvo actually taken out by friendly fire is Savage. Okay. Hogan obviously has a really strong claim to how he came to the company, but Savage definitely came after him, so he could make that claim. Savage would be that person. He's going to be taken out, but then he, instead of Hogan running out, he comes back out. And it's like, look, you know, our hero has come back to help us.
02:53:51
Speaker
Savage runs in, climbs the top rope, then a double drop to Luger instead of Nash, and then the whole thing plays out. I could certainly see that playing out quite well. That's probably the superior version of the other possibility. I don't think I've ever heard this discussed as an actual rumor that it was going to happen, but it might have just been something you and I theorized on years ago, that Luger would be the other interesting option. Correct.
02:54:15
Speaker
and just going off of him being taken out in that kind of weird way in the match that- Yeah. And his joint notification is that, you know, he came in, you know, he had to petition to get a title shot and then they got the one and then, you know what I mean? And he's come in, no one trusts him, no one believes him. He has a more rich history with WCW, you know, leaving WCW to come back. So it's almost a more personal betrayal because he did work there before. Yeah, he actually is a WCW guy originally.
02:54:44
Speaker
Right. Whereas Savage and Hogan, these scenarios just came in as big stars. And so they have less of a personal connection to the company. It's interesting to think of the Luger possibility. I think that probably plays out similar to what you proposed as Savage in that case, that he gets taken out early on. He comes back by surprise at the end and, you know, ends up doing a big move to probably sting to really twist the knife in that case. I think the Luger possibility is very interesting.
02:55:13
Speaker
I don't think that it gets you the same levels as the Hogan one would. For the faction, what it does have that would be really interesting is a very, very deeply personal sting viewed with the NWO then.
02:55:27
Speaker
Because, you know, obviously Sting has for the entire year been doing this, you know, I trust Luger even though nobody else does. If he was paid back for that by Luger stabbing in the back, porting the torture rack on and betraying the entire company, that would be huge.
02:55:44
Speaker
Right. And if the fall brawl bit with fake Sting comes out and, you know, it's like after all this, you guys still hold Luger against me because I trust him with my friend. Those are the famous turns back on them promo and leaves. Yeah. I think all that can still work. I just don't think that the NWO faction itself is quite as big. It becomes more of a, I feel like it actually becomes more of a Sting storyline than it does rather than a company storyline.
02:56:11
Speaker
I think the closest approximation you have to what we got with the NWO, as far as the Hollywood persona, the crazy self-centric promos, and you know, all that stuff. I think the closest you get to that is Savage, if you ever really saw him pull out. I think Savage has the Indian Gravitas, he has the promo skills to do all that and get as close as you can to Hogan.
02:56:37
Speaker
All to reality, I could see Savage and Hogan's place and doing those twisty camera black and white and real promos.
02:56:45
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean obviously Savage does eventually. And we do get those so we have some reference for that. Yeah. I think he's probably the best second choice if they hadn't got Hogan for me. And Sting I think is a strong third choice. You really would have needed to set that up in the weeks leading up to the show to prepare the crowd for it. Because as we've seen in 1999 they try and turn Sting and the crowd just like continues treating him as a face because he's Sting and they love him.
02:57:12
Speaker
Yes. So, yeah, even when he blatantly joins up the Luger as a heal, I think they have Hogan with the bat to take the role title from him. It's still like, yay, yeah, he's staying. Yeah. You want my alternate pitch? Oh, sure. Yeah. So my alternate pitch is what gets us to the same point, but just differently.
02:57:30
Speaker
So you do the drawing, and they draw Sting, and you draw Savage, and then you draw Hogan. Hogan is drawn as a third person for Team WCW against the Outsiders, and a mysterious third man. Now, given his filming schedule and as part of the story, you still keep him absent, don't have him come in, you don't have him cut promos with the other teammates. You can maybe have a video of him where he says, you know, be there, bash his beach, has a date, you know. But the key thing is he's not around like with the rest.
02:57:59
Speaker
Now, the way you get him out of the match is, so the announcers are talking about how important the show is, and suddenly they're told something happened in the back. We were told what happened, we don't see it. This is the point of the story. We found Hogan, you know, laying on his dressing room. He says the outsiders attacked him. We said, oh, we'll send the WSU medical team to attack him. He said, no, no, no, I got my own doctor. I'll be fine. As it gets nearer to the match, maybe with that second Mean Gene promo,
02:58:26
Speaker
He gets an update saying Hogan's injury is worse than he thinks. He's not going to make up for the match. So it's just at the go on with Sting and Savage in a 2-1-3 scenario. Then of course, third man doesn't show up. We obviously don't have the Luger spot because Luger's not involved. Right.
02:58:42
Speaker
It's just straight two-on-two match until we get to the big finish after the big low blow by Nash. Suddenly Hogan's coming out, but say come on and crutch, because that's something you can just get around easily. And he gets in there, he swings it around and makes sure that Nash and Hall stay away. Suddenly he drops a crutch to the outside, shakes his leg to show that it's not injured, and does leg drop. Boom. That would work. It removes the need to do the awkward Luger removal spot to get a two-on-two match.
02:59:12
Speaker
Right. And yeah, I'm not saying my story idea is better than, you know, Bischoff or that thing. Just another way you could approach it with, you know, 20 plus years of hindsight and also ways to look at it. The nice thing with your angle on it is it makes it not just a betrayal of WSW, but direct betrayal of the team, which is kind of nice. Yeah. I like that.
02:59:35
Speaker
Tony starts signing off, tells Hogan to go to hell, finishes signing off, and adds straight to hell as a parting shot. Best sign off in WCW history. Yeah, it's gotta be up there. We get some credits over the Ocean Wave graphics, which seem a little too cheerful for what just happened, and Bash at the Beach 1996 is done. So overall thoughts on Bash at the Beach 1996?
03:00:01
Speaker
As a whole, it's a pretty strong show. Match quality-wise, it's pretty solid throughout. Promos are nice enough to build up the matches throughout and constantly set up the main event, the main angle.
03:00:14
Speaker
Like any of the things they do with the individual in future, there's bits where I really wish they would focus on the match that they're covering. See, instead of going, Oh, I wonder what's going to happen. And this, this made a mention, like, you know, Hogan's going to do, blah, blah, blah. Like they did a lot. That's a general WWE problem. And do you fear a WWF problem as well? It's just a wrestling problem. But it's, that's a pretty minor thing. If you just watch the show as a single thing, I think you get all of the information you need. Mm-hmm.
03:00:42
Speaker
You maybe don't get full context like why John Tenta's got half his face and head shaved off of the little things like that, or why certain people were feuding, but... But even with that, they actually make sure to make that part of the match too with Bubble like cutting the hair. True. So you can be like, oh, that's why. Yeah, that's fair. I think it's a fully contained thing that builds up, obviously, lots of feature shows with the angles and how they play out.
03:01:06
Speaker
Obviously, there's something that's not as good as the rest. The Public Enemy National Boys match is hampered by number of actors being covered. I still don't know why Mongo and Joe Gomez were on the show with the match they did when we have getting the tactile matches not on it.
03:01:22
Speaker
It's not a thing where, oh, this show is a porn historically, but it sucks, which is good. There's, fortunately, some shows like that, where the other card is pretty un-unmarkable, but something major thing happened, so you gotta watch it. It's still an adorable show as a whole, without that, if having some point in even matches like any show does. And ultimately, they set up this massive angle that sets them on a course for better or worse for the next three years than the future.
03:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, I called this one of WSW's most consequential shows, perhaps the most consequential show, and it is. It starts off the NWO angle that will, no exaggeration, change WSW forever. Yes. Even beyond the point when it probably should have changed back, but that's a story for another time. Yes. It's a historically noteworthy show and a massive pivot point for the company.
Event Review and Conclusion
03:02:19
Speaker
It's also quite a nice show.
03:02:21
Speaker
There are nine matches, and I enjoyed all but one, though some certainly more than others. The one I didn't enjoy, Gomez vs. McMichael, isn't that long, and it's not like it's a huge disaster. Yeah. The gimmicks of the matches are often odd, and the double trouble bash of the beach bubble idea should have been chucked in the trash can the moment it was proposed. But from start to finish, I found the matches entertaining.
03:02:43
Speaker
The promo content is almost universally excellent. Hogan's promo is the historical highlight, of course, but we get a lot of standout promos tonight, particularly Flair, Sting, Savage, Luger, and Arne Anderson. People just seemed on, ready to build up their story as well, even if a few word flubs come up from time to time, like Flair mixing up Conan and Malenko, or Hogan accidentally renaming his newly created heel faction. Those don't spoil the promos, they're just too good.
03:03:13
Speaker
add to that some truly great commentary work from my beloved team of Tony, Bobby, and Dusty. They do an excellent job of covering the individual matches and getting across their stories, all while building up the big story of the night. I do agree that they mentioned the Outsiders angle a lot. Yeah. But for me, I didn't feel that they ever let it overwhelm a match that was going on right then. No, I think it's fair. Yeah.
03:03:34
Speaker
And it probably helps that this show is justifiably huge. Like the commentary justifiably comes back to those points a lot, wherein other N.W.O. shows it feels like it's overdone. Yeah. It makes the Outsiders match feel significant and it builds intrigue without making the rest of the show feel like an afterthought.
03:03:53
Speaker
The one real complaint I'll level, and this continues from much the NWO era, is that Tony and Dusty both openly suggest breaking the rules and advise WSW wrestlers to fight like heels against the outsiders. It's fine for Heenan to do that, but it shouldn't be okay for Tony and Dusty to do that. Good guys are good guys because they're righteous and noble even when it's hard to be so.
03:04:16
Speaker
We do have some production flubs, from awkward camera shots to missed important moments in matches, but it isn't enough to disrupt the show. Otherwise, WSW did a great job with the show's look and feel, with an excellent beach set that got used well in some matches, the amazing crab cam, and good use of graphics to emphasize the theme.
03:04:36
Speaker
The video packages I could go either way on, they do cover the story well, but they're quite long and the lack of narration just makes them feel longer. Doing just one of the two would have been better? Yeah, I think so. Overall, I found this an enjoyable show that probably punches a bit above its weight due to its sheer importance to the company. WSW had a big, important night, and they probably honestly could have slacked off for the rest of the show because frankly no one was going to remember much other than the ending.
03:05:05
Speaker
Yes, but they didn't slack off. They put on a good, solid show that was worthy to have such a huge angle on it. All right, we've reached match of the night and MVP then, so Al, what is your match of the night?
03:05:20
Speaker
So for a few drama purposes, the main event is really strong. Obviously there's no finish as discussed. There's certainly high points in the previous tag match with the Giant of Solvents, which is darn it. Benoit has a strong moment as well in Flare and Conan. Some enjoyable basic stuff in front of the DDP match as well as the tend to be bow and match. But for me, the best match going to end is the Renner's Stereocycosis match.
03:05:46
Speaker
Ironically, on a show that's so much about here's this major build to this angle that's gonna change wrestling forever, you gotta see it. This opening match with no actual story in it seals the show. It's a credit to how well they worked around the fact that no story or buildup for the match really happens. Yeah, for me, it's close. It is between Mysterio versus Psychosis and the main event.
03:06:14
Speaker
Mysterio vs. Psychosis is amazing with a mind-blowing finish, but I think I still have to give the edge to the main event. The sheer importance of that match combined with good storytelling, a big angle to finish, and some darn good tag team action in the middle makes for a justifiably famous match to finish off one of WSW's most notable shows.
03:06:35
Speaker
Right. Fair is fair. For a match with no finish, it is a really close call for me then as well. Yeah. Yeah. Normally that would be such a huge point against a match, but just the sheer noteworthyness of the angle and where and where it goes outweighs my normal dissatisfaction with it not really having a finish. I agree. Yeah, absolutely. MVP.
03:06:57
Speaker
MP is a tricky choice. On one hand, I could see if it could Hogan for just going through with this big angle, but obviously he doesn't, I didn't do anything other than come out and hit a leg drop into that promo, which is still keeping attention obviously.
03:07:11
Speaker
Brain Psychosis is both a really good match. DDP and whatever he did out of Duggan truly helps. Gene, honestly, meeting Okerlund, starting to sell everything throughout, and doing the in-character interviews with other people throughout is actually really, it's rare I mention Nautious Ford, but honestly, he's a good, could be a fair choice as well. Absolutely, yeah.
03:07:32
Speaker
flair for his absolutely insane promo and points in the match and according to that giant for his limited a very strong points in his match and the fact that he carries Sullivan on his shoulder will climb on the steps is impressive with ease like with ease yeah yeah 200 plus 50 pound man on his shoulders and he's going over the ropes down these these big steps yeah
03:07:55
Speaker
As far as the main event goes, Luger doesn't have enough to count unfortunately and his promo is not that great. Savage is part of the match, it's really good. His promo content is also really good. The Outsiders don't have promo content, but we see them build up in the show and their points in the match is strong.
03:08:12
Speaker
It just probably feels like Chinga that's done so often, but honestly, he's so good in his promo in the buildup to this. He's so good in the match itself, and he's just so important to everything on the show. I had to go with my easy pick, which is Sting.
03:08:27
Speaker
I will say he was my runner up. Figured that, yeah. Sting does tremendous emotional performance in the match and the promo, sells like mad to get the outsiders over and gives a great buildup to the match overall. So a very worthy choice for sure. Absolutely. For my part, I do have to give this to Hogan. Fair enough.
03:08:48
Speaker
He's not in the match itself, but for the ending moments. But my goodness, that promo he cuts afterwards. It is literally career changing and company changing. It kicks off an angle that will redefine WSW for most of the remainder of its run. I will give this to that promo for the historical significance alone, but it helps that it's also an excellent promo. Yeah, I will say this is definitely the closest I've ever gotten to picking Hogan for MVP.
03:09:16
Speaker
It's rare for me to pick someone as MVP when they aren't really in the match. And are like a show-wide role like a commentator or something, but it's just such a notable, notable thing.
03:09:29
Speaker
Right. Cause part of the reason the turn works so well is that there's like no mention of Hogan, like anything at this. So when he appears, you're just like, Oh, hope it's here. Great. Yeah. You don't know that I got like Hogan talking about what he's going to, if he has to come out and help her or something, you know, if any build up to him being here, let alone seeing him. So what he shows up, you don't like, look at a previous promo, he'd been invincible. That's a weird, what he said there. I wonder if he's a bad guy. Why would you think that he's the bad guy? But, but at the same time, it doesn't feel like you've been cheated.
03:10:01
Speaker
And that wraps up our review of Bash at the Beach 1996. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Twitter or Facebook as let's go to the ring. Links will be available in the episode description.
03:10:16
Speaker
Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, High Heart Radio, Spotify, TuneIn, Verbal, or Audible. And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance and pay-per-view figures, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo.
03:10:45
Speaker
Next up, bash at the beach 1997. Hollywood Hogan and Dennis Rodman crashed the beach. Gosh darn it you two, now my beach insurance rates will go up. I'm never lending you the keys to my beach again. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night everybody. Hey Bob, you can go to hell. Straight to hell. Aww.
03:11:23
Speaker
Where are you going to tell me to go straight to hell, man? Oh. Go straight to hell, I guess, if you have time. Do you want me to do it again so you can get that in? Oh, OK. Yeah, sorry. I know why that didn't occur, maybe. So you teamed me up for that. I was just ready for my line. I'm like, oh, yeah. That makes sense.