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Episode 62: Bash at the Beach 1999
37 Plays1 year ago
Happy New Year! I don't know about you folks, but our resolution here at Let's Go to the Ring is to never watch WCW's Bash at the Beach 1999 again. Why? Two words: Junkyard Invitational. Plus: Piper vs. Bagwell in a boxing match evidently plotted by someone who'd never actually watched a boxing match to its conclusion, Nash and Sting vs. Savage and Sid in a match where Sting can, somehow, win Nash's world title - don't worry, I'm sure WCW will give a logical explanation at some point on the show - and some of the lengthiest video packages since a cowboy explained the Bunkhouse Stampede. For all this and more, let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
As noted, we would get a Scott Steiner, should we? As noted, we'd get a, is that playing close? Yep. Okay, now it's starting to rise up. Got myself. Good thing I
Mixed Feelings About Bash at the Beach 1999
00:00:11
Speaker
met that first lineup.
00:00:39
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days and not so good old days of World Championship Wrestling Series by Series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by Alec Pridgen, a man with just what he needs to be a champion podcast host. Lungs. That definitely helps, yeah. I heard from no less than Kurt Hennig that that's important in all careers.
00:01:03
Speaker
That's the perfect advice, right? Legally not the perfect advice. Yes, it's the headache advice. Thank you. Yeah, don't get the lawyers on. It's always shocking that they never came up with like another descriptor for him. Yeah. I didn't try Mr. Perfection to get by with that. Yeah, Mr. Ultimate or I guess that would have gotten in trouble about the Ultimate Warrior. Yeah. So it's like all the good adjectives are taken. Yeah. How's it going tonight, Al?
00:01:27
Speaker
Good. How's it going with you? Doing all right. Despite what we're about to discuss. Yeah, I think I'm looking ahead to being done with this show because. Well, I'm looking forward to next show, of course.
History of the Event's Venue
00:01:40
Speaker
Not so much, but looking forward to the intervening time where we get to celebrate Christmas and have lots of things that make me actually glad to be alive, unlike Bash of the Beach 1999. Fair enough. Which is what we are discussing today. A tidal wave of trash talking, body slamming tsunami fury.
00:01:56
Speaker
So yeah, not to spoil our thoughts on this show or anything, but it's quite appropriate that the tagline mentions a few natural disasters. Yeah, we'll take the word talking out of trash talking, maybe. That might be good as well. This is also true.
00:02:09
Speaker
Bash of the Beach 1999 was held on July 11, 1999 at the National Car Rental Center in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, presumably so that anyone who wanted to flee could be assured of available transportation in front of 13,624 fans, 11,397 paid.
Event Details and Dark Match Discussion
00:02:27
Speaker
The National Car Rental Center, now the Amarant Bank Arena, has gone through quite a slew of names, including the Florida Live Arena, the BB&T Center, Bank Atlantic Center, and you'll like this one, Al, the Office Depot Center. Hey, there you go. I thought you were going to say the La Parka Center. That would be the best, though that's presumably the parking structure next door. Yeah, there you go. Parka. Yeah. You're that of the winter clothing store.
00:02:57
Speaker
Right. A lot of demand for those in Fort Lauderdale, for sure. Definitely. The center had actually opened less than a year prior on October 3rd, 1998. It holds between 15,207 and 22,457 people, depending on the exact arrangement. While we don't have another WCW show to compare to here, we do have a couple WWE shows in the same arena. OK. Armageddon 1999 and Armageddon 2002.
00:03:26
Speaker
1999 got 17,054 attendees, making it pretty clear that WCW missed the market, filling the available seats by a fair bit. Yeah. But WCW did at least trounce 2002's version, which is listed at only getting about 9,000 people in the then Office Depot Center. Oh, OK. Bash of the Beats 1999 earned about 155,000 pay-per-view buys, a drop of about 370,000 from last year's 525,000. Whoa!
00:03:55
Speaker
In fact, it is the lowest number for a bash at the beach so far, though the two Beachblast shows had less buys, so there's that at least. Yeah, that's
Spotlight on Jet Jaguar
00:04:03
Speaker
something, I guess. Before the show, there was one dark match. C.G. Affy, later Tony Maranera and Tony and Mama Luke, and Jeremy Lopez, beat Jamie Howard, later Jamie Noble, and Jet Jaguar.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah, I looked that up. I was very disappointed if I'm just like some white guy. Yeah, he's not dressed like the thing from the Godzilla franchise. I got my hopes up so much. According to Cage match listings, by the way, this would be both Effie and Howard's first WCW match. OK. The same for Lopez and Jaguar, but they don't go on to have WCW careers, though they are listed as having at least one more match each. OK.
00:04:41
Speaker
I was also curious about Jet Jaguar since he's named intentionally or not after a robot from the Godzilla franchise. Cage Match had a section on his page warning, this text is hidden because it is only available in the German language. Please click this line if you do not care and want to view it anyway.
00:04:57
Speaker
Okay. I did so, of course, because I was very curious.
Opening Show and Storyline Setup
00:05:00
Speaker
And it informed me that the former Jaguar Arbitite als website Gestaltor, which translates to works as a website designer. Ah, kind of seems like they could have taken the two and a half seconds necessary to translate that rather than having a warning up there. But that's just me. Yeah. Anyway, best of luck in your website design career, Jaguar.
00:05:21
Speaker
So, will I find more opportunities to butcher the German language on this show? To find out, let's go to the ring. WCW's terrible logo brings us in and cuts to an opening video package featuring generic hard rock that is too long for the footage that they've chosen, so they just set up an extreme fast-forward loop of footage to close it out. Nice
Humorous Exchanges on Matches
00:05:44
Speaker
transition to the WCW Bash of the Beach title card, though.
00:05:47
Speaker
And this logo is one that the crappy late 90s, early 2000s, WSW logo does kind of work with. They've got it positioned well centered at the top of it, and it has similar, like, pointiness to it that the overall Bash of the Beach logo has this time. The video package covers, such as it does, the buildup to our main event, Kevin Nash and Sting versus Sid Vicious and The Macho Man, Randy Savage.
00:06:11
Speaker
Host Tony Schiavone calls out the spaciousness of the national car rental center, which probably isn't the best idea when you're far from filling it up. Hey, guys, we booked an arena that was too big. Yes. He's joined by Bobby the Brain Hienan, just a two man team tonight. Both are in good beach themed shirts and Hienan is wearing sunglasses indoors.
00:06:35
Speaker
Tony and Eden build up the main event and note that if Nash is pinned by Savage, Vicious, or Sting, he loses the world title. Sting, it must be noted, is Nash's partner. Meaning that it is impossible for both him and Nash to be legal at the same time. Thus, no, Sting can't pin Nash to win the world title because Sting can't pin Nash.
00:06:58
Speaker
Now, maybe if it was a false anywhere match, you could go outside the ring and pin them while you're legal. Yeah, or like tornado tag. Yeah, that would work. I mean, it'd
Ernest 'The Cat' Miller vs Disco Inferno: A Special Challenge
00:07:07
Speaker
still be nonsensical that you can pin your own partner, but at least it would make sense how they could be in the ring together. Right, exactly. This is ironically a situation that would be aided by WSW's rules from what was it? Bash 1995. Oh, the one where they had the tag teams they could tag even if they weren't on the same team. Yes. Yeah.
00:07:27
Speaker
Tony also notes that T'Nay is out in a junkyard. Hienen jokes he should be. Yeah. T'Nay is covering an unsanctioned match, hardcore hacks, junkyard invitational. Hienen asks if Tony's been to a junkyard and Tony says, of course he has. Hienen says he hasn't, and Rapidfire repeatedly asks why Tony would ever go to a place like that, getting Tony to crack up as he tries to move the show along. He really specializes in that tonight. He seems to make a game of it. He's asked about that for sure, yeah.
00:07:56
Speaker
Tony manages to cover Piper vs. Bagwell in a boxing match, refereed by Judge Mills Lane. Lane famously refereed Holyfield vs. Tyson 2 on June 28, 1997, the bite fight. I'll be honest, I was not expecting to reference that multiple times in a single WSW series. Lane was also an actual courtroom judge, and had a courtroom TV show, Judge Mills Lane, from 1998 to 2001.
00:08:21
Speaker
Tony throws to Jean, who is also dressed for the beach today, it's a rare casual Jean. He praises the crowd despite some jerks shining a laser pointer at him, and shills the hotline stating that there are people backstage that would have repercussions around the wrestling world.
00:08:38
Speaker
1-900-909-9900. He throws to Tene at the junkyard. Tene claims that we could tell from his attire that he intended to be in the arena. He's wearing the same suburban backyard barbecue outfit from last year, I believe. Yes. But his spies tipped him off about the location of the junkyard invitational, so he brought the camera crew out to film it. Text on screen hopefully notes that he's at the junkyard. Oh. Very specific.
00:09:05
Speaker
Behind, a car hood reads, happy birthday,
Match Analysis: Miller and Disco Inferno
00:09:08
Speaker
Charlie. Tine covers WCW president Rick Flair banning hardcore matches. No word on if Vern Ganya and Luthaz broke into spontaneous applause. No doubt. He covers Hack and Jimmy Hart recruiting competitors for the invitational and suggests there may even be wrestlers not associated with WCW. Back to the arena and it's time for our first match.
00:09:33
Speaker
So our first match is Ernest the Cat Miller with Sonny Ono versus Disco Inferno in a special challenge match. Referee for this one is Randy Anderson.
00:09:43
Speaker
It's the battle over dancing. Who is better? Who cares? When they go home thunder, they introduce a stipulation amongst the competitors that whoever loses them at can no longer dance in WCW ever again. Don't get too excited because between shows, that being the end of thunder in the beginning of this show, they said, actually, that we don't want to do that. We don't agree to that stipulation. So if you wanted even lower stakes for Ernest Miller disco inferno, you've got it, baby. It's like,
00:10:12
Speaker
It's like anti-storytelling. Yes.
Interview with Judge Mills Lane
00:10:18
Speaker
Kat has a very nice robe with leopard print lining. Speaking of the stipulation being removed, Tony implies Ono bribed the board of directors, then claims he wasn't trying to imply that, and then Hienan just outright says they're all on the take, and so is Hienan, nearly breaking Tony again. That's twice now. Keep this up, guys, and I'll have at least one thing to entertain me. There you go.
00:10:39
Speaker
Cat gets a microphone and tells the crowd they make him sick, then accepts a You Suck chant. He claims to be the greatest dancer in the world, and says if he had time, he'd beat up everyone in the crowd. He says they'll have a dance contest, and then he's gonna whoop somebody. Disco comes out, and somehow he's the face? Yeah. This is the year of people that shouldn't be faces being faces. Yeah, disco and then buff Bagwell later on. You're like, what?
00:11:05
Speaker
Cat demands to cut Disco's music and offers Disco the chance to beat him at dancing, and apparently the match won't happen if Disco wins or something. Cat does some dancing to a James Brown sounding backing track that's better than his entrance music. He's okay, a little random, but the splits are nice and it's fun watching him slide around the ring.
Rick Steiner vs Van Hammer
00:11:23
Speaker
He does a good job of, like, gliding. Yeah, it's not quite moonwalking, but it's a similar feel where, yeah, he's not taking full steps on his body sort of sliding, yeah.
00:11:32
Speaker
He gets booed, of course, as Tony notes that his routine was good, but he lost the crowd with his insults. Disco is next, and he tells Cat to watch how it's done, then does his basic disco points and gets cheered. Cat charges, but Disco ducks and lands kicks and punches, and we're off. Disco stomps on Cat's cap and continues attacking, and Cat retreats outside for comfort from Mono. Cat says he's gonna have to register his hands and he's gonna whoop somebody. Anyone in particular, Cat? Maybe your opponent?
00:11:59
Speaker
Can they have like a stipulation wherever loses, does it talk anymore? Could that be great? It saves a lot of time.
00:12:06
Speaker
Back in, Disco lands punches and atomic drops, and earns two with a clothesline, but Cat throws him out for Ono to land his excellent kicks, while Cat distracts the ref. Cat and Disco send each other to the barricades. Back in, Cat slugs Disco in the crotch, and they trade two counts with a Disco sunset flip, Cat sidekick, Disco knee drop,
Controversial Win by David Flair
00:12:27
Speaker
Disco Russian leg sweep, Cat sidekick, and Cat sidekick. There's a lot of those. So is there an Echo in here?
00:12:35
Speaker
Cat rakes Disco's eyes and goes for his shoe, as Ono distracts the ref, but Disco stomps his foot, steals the shoe, and clocks him with it for two. Disco hits the last dance on Ono, but as the ref checks on Ono, Cat sneaks the shoe on and kicks Disco, then discards the shoe and pins for the three count and the win.
00:12:54
Speaker
Ono drapes a cape on Kat and helps him stand until Kat breaks into spontaneous dancing. Ono puts a different cape on him as we cut to the replays. Not sure why multiple capes were necessary, but more power to you, buddy. Absolutely. Thoughts on this one?
00:13:09
Speaker
So it's better than I thought it was going to be. In case it wasn't clear my like of Ernest Miller, especially at this point in Disco Inferno, it's not that high. So it's a pretty low level. So I'm sort of working at. To be fair, I think they do a decent job, at least in the first half, first three quarters of the match of doing a good variety of actual moves.
00:13:30
Speaker
Disco as much as I don't like him in general, he's good at doing the moves he knows how to do and he has a decent variety. Yeah. So it's not like watching guys. All they do is close line and punch and so on and so forth. You can do those moves. Well, I just don't like him. Yeah, it's not really a problem with his in ring capability that gets in the way on him. It's just the personality gimmick and general repetitive themes of his matches that seem to bother you more. Right. It's something of the overall package. Yeah. Yeah. You can take different parts. Oh, this is good. This is fine. But yeah, together.
00:14:00
Speaker
Yeah, all his moves seem generally capably done.
00:14:03
Speaker
What even on Miller's part, for the most part, he does a good job of selling the moves. He does his kicks really well as that's kind of his old thing. The problem is once you get to the third part of the match, really the last part of it, they get repetitive. Like I said, there's two psychics in a row like that. The finish is about setting up a kick and then countering and then getting two kicks kind of kicked out at this point. I wasn't entirely clear why shoes he wears normally to watch the ring are weapons. Yeah.
00:14:32
Speaker
Why isn't he just wrestling them? I've never gotten that with him. Like he doesn't do the thing you sometimes see people do when they're trying to signal like, oh, I've now loaded the shoe
Elimination Tag Match: No Limit Soldiers vs West Texas Rednecks
00:14:43
Speaker
or I've now loaded the glove. Yeah. Like shake it around. Not that that makes a lot of sense to begin with, but he doesn't have like the theatrics about it that make it clear that now it is a weapon. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:14:54
Speaker
The finish, as we'll see a lot, is a bit complicated, and it's designed to be a little screwy, let the heel win. I think they do it fairly well. I can appreciate subtle things like the fact that because Kat only wears no shoes, he goes to put one of them on and he gets stomped on his exposed foot. Yes. So then when he finally gets the other shoe, that's why he only puts one on and tries both of them on.
00:15:17
Speaker
Someone, I'm guessing like a DDP-like person, laid out this thing in a nice binder to explain why. This shoe here, this shoe there.
00:15:25
Speaker
I still don't necessarily like the idea that his whole finish is distract before you put on shoe and kick you, but at least they do that well. The overall plotting of it, I think is fine. Yeah. It needs that extra bit of theatrics to say, ah, now it is loaded. We're like, oh, no, doing something to it or something like that. Or something you wouldn't know would be dangerous. Like it'd be like if they do the shoe thing, you know, lay shoes, but instead of turning it so it's simply the heel and like aiming at like the eye or the forehead, if it's just holding the shoe and just like punching them with it. Yeah.
00:15:56
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was a perfectly acceptable match. It's not the sort I would have expected as an opening that's normally reserved more for cruiserweights doing really acrobatic stunts, and this was pretty simple in design. It's mostly striking whips to the ropes with a few throws mixed in, but Kat's kicks are quite good, and after some initial stalling, they kept a good quick pace. Disco had some surprisingly intense punches at times, too. Yeah, sure.
00:16:19
Speaker
The crowd did seem pretty into it, probably due to the audience participation pre-match, so it did its job. I don't think I'm going to remember much of this one tomorrow, but as we'll find out later tonight, sometimes that's better than being memorable. Yeah. Sadly, we're later why the Cruiserweights are not in the opener. It's not a good reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:41
Speaker
As we've already covered officially already, but in the timeline on the very next show as Road Wild 99, we get the match between Buff Bagwell and Nurse Miller, which is worse than this one. So so bad. Yeah. As much as I don't like disco, they don't botch anything in this match and they definitely botched a few things in that match. And there and there's more action in like a few moments of this match than in that entire match. Agreed, yes.
00:17:12
Speaker
Tony throws to Mark Madden with Judge Mills Lane.
00:17:16
Speaker
Holyfield versus Tyson is one thing. Piper versus Bagwell might be even crazier. How in the world are you going to maintain order in there? Well, there's certain protocol. I expect them to get it on a bit, and I know they have a little leeway, a little more leeway than even pressing a prize fight a boxing match, but I can look to tell you this, I'm not going to put up any crap. If I got to chase one on my will, that's the name of the game. There's certain protocols, certain things you can do, certain things you can't do. So we'll just see where the chips fall when they get it on. Now, you don't seem to like Roddy Piper very much, do you?
00:17:45
Speaker
Well, I don't dislike any athlete. I mean, I respect the athletes, but I don't put up any crap from athletes. I think if you do that, you'll let them take the fight from me. How much leeway will you allow in this fight? I mean, Tyson bit Holyfield not once, but twice before you called for the bell. How much will you let go? It depends. The people that set out here to chase Tyson
Future of the Soldiers and Rednecks
00:18:03
Speaker
after the first fight make a good case for him. But the doc said he could go on. If so much is on the line, I let it go. I'll cut him a little slack, but I'm not gonna cut him a lot of slack.
00:18:11
Speaker
There's a lot on the line here, one at WCW. All going on right now at WCW.com tonight. Justice, you can trust in the ring. You know why he let the fight go on? Yes, Holyfield. He said, are you in trouble? He went, huh? I'm surprised saying this, but this was one, a good WSW Internet table segment that got enough time to be a value for the show. Yeah. And two, a good interview by Mark Madden of all people.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, the guys had a long radio cure after this company. He must do something right. This is him actually showing what he can do if he stops being a pervert idiot for his character.
00:18:52
Speaker
Yeah, this is the observer effect. Put it back differently than they were being filmed. I wonder if they tell them, oh, we're going to cut to you now and film this, or do they just keep talking the whole time? Let's say 20 minutes. Is this Mark Madden not in character because he's just doing an interview? Yeah. Or have they just legit not started the Madden craziness character yet? And this is just Mark Madden standard interviewer. Yeah, it's interesting.
00:19:15
Speaker
But he gets some good insights out of Lane, and he presses him with questions about the famous incident that surely got Lane his role on this show, and also delved into how he would referee the unusual boxing match later on. And Lane, for his part, seemed very comfortable with the interview format, not surprising since he's been a public personality for a long time in both sports and the courtroom at this point. Yeah. So yeah, this was good. It doesn't change how weird it is to have a boxing match on a wrestling show, but it was good.
00:19:40
Speaker
I will say there's some ominous foreshadowing with him saying he'll give him suddenly not too much. As with many of these things, the interview doesn't quite correspond with what actually goes on in the match. But yeah, but the interview is still, I think, a solid part of the show that I liked.
00:19:55
Speaker
You remember when we were watching this for a time, we kept waiting for them to suddenly cut away and like they didn't. Yeah. Like, Oh, you're actually letting them explain a point. Yeah. Cause we're like, what was it? Too short or might've been last show actually. I don't know. They just would like chop in the middle of a sentence just as they were getting to the point of, yeah, it was last show. Cause it happened with perfect too, where he's just, just getting to explain his point and then they're bare. Well, they don't give too much to the show away, Bob. You got to pay to listen to radio, Deb. CW or whatever the hell they call it.
00:20:26
Speaker
We then cut to a video package showing a combined buildup to our next match, Hammer versus Steiner, combined with Flair banding hardcore matches. Ban Hammer is not particularly good at setting up tables. He is apparently better at asking for title matches. Hey, it's been a rough. I can see you guys are busy. Mr. President. Yeah. Mr. Vice President. RPVP. RPVP. Okay. Little nach.
00:20:53
Speaker
I can see you're busy, this won't take long. But I've been on a roll lately, winning some matches. What about a title shot? You're the man that can give it to me, right? A title shot? A title shot. Oh, I think I got it.
00:21:25
Speaker
I'll let Al go over the details next, but I do want to note that I love the overall vibe of Ric Flair's presidential cabinet, as it were. With Flair, Piper, and Charles Robinson just happily chattering away, while Arne chills out like their cool, relaxed, very chilled dad.
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah, I see that. Art's entirely uncaring shrug when Flair asked him if Hammer has been on a roll is the absolute best. Yeah, yeah. At most we would respond to Van Hammer. So our second match is Rick Steiner versus Van Hammer for Steiner's WCW World Television Championship. Referee for this one is Mickey J.
00:22:05
Speaker
So a couple months back, uh, Rick Steiner turned heel and rejoined his brother, who, if you recall your Mississippi history, spent about, what, eight months trying to get a match with Scott Steiner, which they would constantly bait and switch. We covered one of them, but there's like two more shows where they bait and switch the audience. Oh, Halloween Havoc is the big one. We'll get, we have so much discussion with that show. It's like, it's endless.
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, after all this time, trying to find just five minutes to be his brother up, they reunite because they both were able to win the TV and US talent, respectively, Scott being the US champion up until very recently as we'll cover. Meanwhile, some of the back realize that that hammer still existed. He's kind of been in a limbo over since the whole flock angle ended. That was a big return. It was being that random flock guy. Now there's no flock, which he going to do.
00:22:52
Speaker
Well, he went from dressing like hippie guy to putting no peace on his singlet. So that's how you know he's different. Yes. It's important to spell out literally spell it out for the audience. That is that is character development. You will find that in any writer seminar. Make sure to have your character wear their life mission statement on a T-shirt. Yeah. Yeah. So he's been on a brief role in the company victories over people like Mikey Wiprick, which I imagine being very boring, but we'll cover that later.
00:23:19
Speaker
So this leads up to the segment, Bob, sort of hinted at, where Van Hammer, after doing fairly well on Nitro and Thunder, goes into the casual office of the president and vice president, asks for title match. Flair's like, yeah, sure, why not? He doesn't actually say what title he wants a match for. It's like any of them, whichever one. Whatever you got, yeah. I'll challenge for the tag titles if you want on my own, you know, whatever. Sure. He doesn't actually say that, but I mean, you might as well have. By default, yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker
So apparently it's some form of punishment, it seems like, because they sort of, they give him a match and then laugh about it after he leaves. Yeah, I can't tell if it's intended to be an insult to him that they're like, this this chopper asking us for a title match, let's give him the worst one possible, or if it's just meant to be the chaotic atmosphere of the Ric Flair presidency.
00:24:07
Speaker
Or just backstage at WSW in general. Yeah. Life imitating art or art obtaining life, either way we look at it. But yeah, so he gets the title match against Rick Steiner because he's been doing fairly well by fan hammer standards. Yes. Steiner is out first, oddly, given that he is the champ. His beware of dog jacket remains great.
00:24:29
Speaker
Hienan notes that the whole state of Florida is a junkyard. I take exception to that, but it would explain why they didn't feel the need to label Tanae's location any more specifically. Yeah, yeah. Steiner grabs a microphone. This is gonna be one of those shows, isn't it? Oh yeah. Steiner says things have changed and he and Scott do whatever they want. He says if someone has a bad attitude, he'll shove it where the sun don't shine. You want some, come get some, you don't like me, bite me. Basic catchphrase promo, let's move on.
00:25:00
Speaker
Van Hammer is out next. He definitely has a good look, very tall and athletic. The last time we saw Hammer as a competitor, by the way, was on Slamboree 1993, losing to Sid Vicious in 35 seconds. Oh, yeah. So he can only go up. Yeah, yeah. To be clear, he's had other matches since then. That's the last time we saw him for the show. Oh, yeah, no.
00:25:25
Speaker
Steiner gets some cheap shots, but Hammer mostly lands closed lines and a big boot to send Steiner through the ropes, and earns one with a suplex when he comes back. Steiner has enough of that and beats Hammer up inside and outside the ring, exposing the concrete and DDT-ing Hammer on it. Hammer is nowhere near that. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:44
Speaker
So we're supposed to believe, obviously, that he's got Hammers, you know, his head in his armpit and he's like spiking at least his forehead on the concrete. But in reality, what's happening is Rick Steiner is just taking a flat back bump on concrete and going, I win. Yeah, the camera angle was not particularly good at that. And I mean, at least it got the point across. But yeah, still could have been done better. Yeah. Agreed.
00:26:07
Speaker
He goes for a pin outside, and Jay reminds him that's not allowed, so Steiner throws Jay down. Hammer slugs Steiner in the crotch to briefly turn the tide, but Steiner soon just absorbs a clothesline and continues the beatdown, earning two with an elbow drop. Hammer gets a chair and smacks Steiner, and gets two with a top rope clothesline.
00:26:27
Speaker
Hammer lifts Steiner, but Steiner bites him, punches him in the crotch, Steiner lines him, and hits a top rope bulldog for the three count and the win. Hienan and Tony say the DDT on the floor turned the match away from Hammer. Thoughts on this one?
00:26:42
Speaker
It's not great, for sure. It's funny, we complain about Scott Steiner matches where the story is like he does what he wants because he's big and scary and the ref refused to dequeue him and they've used to punish him. I kind of thought that was a Scott Steiner thing, but apparently that's just a Steiner thing. Yeah, at least in this match for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen a lot of the Rick Steiner solo matches during this period is the thing. We've seen the Goldberg one, obviously. Right. Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
And when it's part of the overall weird vibe, they started in like 98 were sort of looser rules about what qualifies as qualification or not. Yeah. But he directly shelves the referee. He does match. Yeah. Which I mean, at the very least that should definitely do it. Well, his first, I guess first ball shot is somewhat to Skype. The second one is just a running kick. Yes. It's a penalty kick to a goal. Right between the goalposts. Yeah. Yeah. Right in the nails, I guess.
00:27:35
Speaker
I'm just confused by this match. I like the booking. Because they spend a couple months building a Van Hammers like a decent threat for a mid card guy. He's got a good look. He's not good in the ring, but he has to get looked you can kind of get by with that. But they have very little against Rick Steiner and lose in fairly convincing fashion.
00:27:54
Speaker
I guess you could argue that the how is this not Deque aspect sort of protects him, but he gets involved in that as well. So it's not like he's fighting ferrets with cheating against him to get advantage. Yeah, exactly. They're both doing it. I will say he's not truly terrible. Like is there some bits he doesn't his diving clothesline is actually not bad. Some of his strikes are not bad either. The suplex too. Yes, that was good. Yeah.
00:28:19
Speaker
I do at least appreciate the overall package, I guess, that Brixton has going, because he looks like a big intimidating guy who will throw you around and punch you and kick you.
00:28:31
Speaker
That said, that's not the most exciting match. When you have someone that's not a real exciting person, offense wise, you need like a more vibrant, interesting character and wrestler against him. So like when he shuts down like a cruiserweight, for instance, it stands out. He gets them around really well. When they're in control, it's a more interesting match.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah, or someone who's really, really good at the selling and getting sympathy like Sting. Sure, yeah. You have been beating the crap out of Sting. Vader showed you could do that for an extended period of time and Sting can keep it interesting. But as it is, it's two guys that do fairly basic offense. I mean, Ricks is better, obviously, because he's Rick Steiner. It's a real short match where people just hit you really hard and then one guy wins. Yeah. Doesn't really do him a lot of good.
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah, there's not a ton to this match. It's only about three minutes long. And there's a few awkward strikes in the midst of it, but the two did manage a short but energetic fight.
00:29:25
Speaker
The late match plotting is just weird. It's unclear why a chair shot or repeated strikes to the crotch don't get one or the other DQ'd. This was surprisingly okay, but like you said, what did it actually accomplish? If they're trying to build up Hammer, having him lose to Steiner in such a short match hurts that effort. If they're trying to build up Steiner, having Hammer do as well as he did in the beginning kind of undercuts that.
00:29:50
Speaker
If they're trying to showcase either or both, they didn't allow very much time for that. So action-wise, this works out well enough, but the story and purpose don't make a lot of sense. What if I too, this is after we've had a year plus of Goldberg squash matches. So they know how to book those. Someone in the back or some people in the back know how to book this kind of match and they didn't do it here. Yeah. It's just non-committal enough with Van Hammer in control against Diner that doesn't really work either way.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah. The one thing I will give this, though, is this is significantly better than the Rick Steiner versus Goldberg match at Road Wild 1999. Yeah. Which is not something I would have expected to be saying. We're two for two on those, by the way. Yes. Yeah. Bash 99, calling cards so far. Not as bad as Road Wild. Yeah. I don't think that's a tagline they'll want to use on any posters. WCW 99, it gets worse. Yeah.
00:30:46
Speaker
that we are yet to touch certain matches on this show. So that's true. We'll see if that maintains. As noted, we would get a Rick Steiner versus Goldberg match. In kayfabe, the idea is that back at the same show we covered where Rick Steiner turned heel, him and Scott beat up Goldberg so he could go off and film the classic movie. You versus soldier the return, which you've also covered. Yes. I think we agree it's still better than this show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A hundred times better than this. Yes. Yeah.
00:31:17
Speaker
worth noting that Hammer would mostly not recover from this as a singles competitor. This is actually his last appearance of pay-per-view, by the way. Wow. Unless maybe we kind of like standing by the group with the misfits in action. But as far as a here's a Van Hammer match of pay-per-view, this is the last one.
00:31:33
Speaker
But yeah, so he would sort of disappear for a while until with K-Fei storyline, he would be fired by the company along with people like Hugh Morris and they would form the Misfits in Action. The famous bit with him, of course, is that so the Misfits in Action, they're all military rank. The general is a captain, the lieutenant, the lieutenant loco, all these things.
00:31:52
Speaker
And they rebrand him, I guess going back to his hippie, Peace Days. He's called Private Stash, which is a joke on people that like their weed and like to hide it so you can't have it all for them. Supposedly, he complained backstage about his rank being lower than other people. Because he's a private. A fictional private. Yes. And a fictional militarization in a wrestling company. So he became Major Stash, which is still a joke, but not as clear a joke yet. No, no.
00:32:21
Speaker
Tony throws to Tenet at the junkyard. The sun has gone down. Tenet can't tell us who's going to be involved. He doesn't really tell us anything he didn't tell us the first time, but we do get a shot of poor Scott Dickinson holding the crappy hardcore champion trophy, which bears the WSW logo, which is a bit odd for an unsanctioned match. Yes. We close out with a helicopter shot because WSW knows how much I love those.
00:32:45
Speaker
So Scott Dickens is technically refereeing the junkyard match, right? Yes. How? Yes. I know there's no good answers to that question. I know. Unsanctioned is such a strange thing as this company uses it. It's something that the company has not approved. Yeah. And yet they will provide referees for it, air it on their show, provide a trophy for it that has their logo, all sorts of different things. And you're like, do you understand that this is meant to be an expression of your disapproval of this match?
00:33:15
Speaker
I will accept them having it aired on their shows still just because we get into the is this really happy on camera or not type of thing in wrestling all the time. It's dumb, but it happens all the time for various things. But you shouldn't have your logo on the trophy and usually have like some referee that we've never seen before.
00:33:33
Speaker
Yeah, or have him like not an official uniform and say something like, oh, I'm being paid by by a hack. Yeah. I mean, I heard a hack. Yeah, I think as well. Yeah. Because hack appears to be organizing this entire thing. The idea of Sandman organizing anything, but yeah.
00:33:49
Speaker
Do you think this is, um, Karma getting back at Scott Dickinson for that? Him refereeing the Chavo and Stevie Ray let match last year and not having to do any work at all. Oh, right. Yeah. Guess what, buddy? This year you have to referee the junkyard invitational. Yeah, that's true. I mean, still, he doesn't have to do very much, but you know, he does have to sit there watching the junkyard invitational. Yeah. He has to enjoy the smell of the whole area. Oh yeah.
00:34:15
Speaker
We cut to a short video of WW president Rick Flair giving his son David the US title and telling him that women will like him despite his total lack of charisma. Rick didn't actually say that last bit, mind. Our third match is Dean Malenko versus David Flair with Tori Wilson, Rick Flair, Asia, Arne Anderson, and Charles Robinson for Flair's WCW United States Heavyweight Championship. Referee for this one is Johnny Boone.
00:34:44
Speaker
Rick Flair has gone a bit mad with power, which is surprising. He's usually a very level straight-laced character. But yeah, in about six months, he's gone from wrestler to president for 90 days, to president for life, to fired, to back to president for life. So wrap your head around that first off. President for life means about as much as end up you owe for life. Exactly. But you're going to come to the giant. Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
As one of his acts, he would strip Scott Stone of the US title. This happened on July 5th, Nitro. So July 5th, 1999, which is my 16th birthday. Okay.
00:35:20
Speaker
I did not get a U.S. title for my birthday in case you're asking. I wasn't. Well, and it's letting you know I did not. I was trying to, you know, it's funny, I was, when I was writing my notes, I was trying to think, what did I get for my 16th birthday? I honestly do not remember. I'm sure it's something in this room because they keep everything I've ever owned in my life. I'm guessing it's probably a PlayStation games that are in 64 maybe at that point, but still, yeah. I was going to make a joke when I got this birthday. I actually can't remember what it was. So, so folks, you know, just, just in case you're wondering, never buy Al anything for his birthday because he'll just forget it.
00:35:52
Speaker
message. I was going to do that like disclaimer where the opinions data for not those let's go rerock Bridget. At this point, there is no horsemen. It's just Ric Flair's cabinet, which we'll see all of the next match.
00:36:09
Speaker
Malenko is out first. Tony notes that he wanted to rekindle the Four Horsemen, but Flair let the power of the presidency go to his head and dissolve the Four Horsemen. David Flair comes out in a Flair-style silver robe, arm in arm with Tori Wilson. Honestly, walking out wearing a Flair robe is the most comfortable I have seen David Flair look on camera. Yeah. It makes sense. You've got to figure he probably tried some on and pretended to be his dad while growing up. Yeah, for sure.
00:36:37
Speaker
Brick Flair and company follow behind. Tony is grateful that Boone is the ref, rather than Flair's pal Robinson. Malenko easily dominates, even tossing David to the ground after David manages one bit of offense, a waste lock. Malenko repeatedly lectures Brick about David. David eventually shoves Malenko, so Malenko stomps him flat, suplexes him, and sets for the cloverleaf.
00:37:02
Speaker
Brick in, but Malenko slugs him. Arne in, and he spinebusters Boone, and Robinson takes Boone's ref shirt. Malenko disposes of Arne, then Asia, and puts the latter in the Texas cloverleaf, but Brick hits Malenko with the US title, and puts David on top for the three count and the win.
00:37:19
Speaker
Tony calls it a blemish on the United States title. Rick and Tori check on David as aren't Stomps Malenko outside. Flair gets into Stomp 2 as the group makes their exit, and he reminds us that Malenko used to be a horseman. Thoughts on this one? I mean, this isn't really going to match, is it? Not really. My note was that this is a nitro angle on pay-per-view.
00:37:41
Speaker
It's like maybe it's a timing thing, like they just ran out of nitros. Like, let's do this on this nitro. Oh, wait, Sunday's pay-per-view. Well, we can't ignore this for another extra day. So let's just do a pay-per-view. That's what people pay for to watch this, I guess. Yeah. I feel like it's a little bit of a, well, we got to have the US title on pay-per-view kind of thing, too. Yeah.
00:38:00
Speaker
I get that they want, even if I don't like it, that they got to push this angle. Let's show how crazy Flare is. We put the title on his kid who has no, as they talk about, has no offense as champion, which is definitely a stat to have. Yes. Not a good one, but definitely a stat. But yeah, it's barely even any action in it because it's Blinco constantly knocking the poor kid down until like six people run into the ring and do stuff. Mm hmm.
00:38:26
Speaker
The real loser here, it's funny, it's like David Floyd doesn't look great here, but he didn't come in looking great. So it's not like this is downhill. Morales is the same baseline he's been at. Weirdly enough, it's not even Blinco because it's so against him. You can't really weaken him. He looks clearly strong in the opening going like he easily dominates. So this is a straight match to be over in 30 seconds. Yeah. Now, the one that really looks weak here and this is an odd, odd book decision is Asia. Yes. I don't know if you've covered on a show before or not.
00:38:55
Speaker
I think we've mentioned her before. Yeah, basically, W.E.S. W.E.'s version of W.E.S. China. Yeah, she was a bodybuilder. So she had the big physique of a China. The problem is she wasn't very big, like as far as height goes. So she goes in the ring like China would go and like try to intimidate, let's say, I know one heart or someone like that. She goes in the ring and she's the exact same height as Dean Malenko, who is not known as one of the largest wrestlers. Yeah.
00:39:21
Speaker
Famously called a vanilla midget by Kevin Nash. Yes term I don't like, but it is notable for this situation. She goes in the ring and does nothing at all to him. He actually hesitates for a moment before attacking her because, you know, the whole don't want to hit a girl type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So he even gives her a moment to potentially have done something to. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to think that she forgot a spot or something, but it's just it's just weird because he comes in and doesn't do anything.
00:39:48
Speaker
I guess she's distracting him. Sure. Yeah. But she's like, I'm in the ring now, so you can't do anything. And then he just buy slams her. I will say Dean looks a little dumb for putting her in the cloverleaf. Why? She's already down. Yeah. Yeah. I would wager that it was we can't put Arne in the cloverleaf. Yes. Of his injuries, probably. So she's the natural option if you're going to have him put someone in the cloverleaf and then still lose because he puts David in the cloverleaf. He's winning. Right. I mean, you could put a couple of flares in the cloverleaf.
00:40:16
Speaker
I think that's probably if I were going to rebook this, I would have him knock Flair down, knock Arne down, put Flair in the cloverleaf. Then Asia comes in, knocks him down and drags David on top. Yeah. It is weird to book the muscle character and does nothing. Yes. Max muscle bodyguard for DDP did more. Yes. It's amazing. Not good.
00:40:37
Speaker
I will say I thought that this would annoy me a lot more than it actually did. David is clearly not prepared to be a wrestler on pay-per-view, but that is actually kind of the point of this story. Malenko just easily dominates the match, which feels entirely right and proper, and it's only through blatant cheating and corruption that David, quote-unquote, wins. The commentary team, Tony especially, openly mocks the idea that David is champion.
00:41:01
Speaker
I still wish there was more actual action to a pay-per-view match, maybe Malenko getting to face off for a longer time against Rick, for instance, as part of the interference. But this works as part of the power mad Rick Flair angle, and there's definitely some potential interesting story from this. It's only once they try to make David a regular wrestler later on, while he's still not prepared, that things really get bad. Still, like you said, this was more angle than match, and I don't really think we needed an unpaid for view.
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah. If you look ahead from my memory, anyways, the only WWE appearance of David Flair is in the building, getting beat up by Undertaker. Yeah. Wrestling 18 build up. Yeah. Rick Flair's son, David is, you know, trained via wrestler in order. That's three years after this show that's happening. Yes. And he gets beat up. That's the only thing he's ever did there as far as I know. So they put multiple championships on him.
00:41:55
Speaker
From what I understand, David did not really want to be a pro wrestler. It's pretty clear he didn't know. I do feel like I'm pecking on David Flair because he's just, in real life, just shouting the situation. Yeah, I think that's he's kind of put in this situation. He's not prepared for it. He's not really wanting to do it in the first place. But, you know, dad says or whoever's booking at the time period says, hey, come on, it'll be cool. Yeah. And like, OK, fine. So that's kind of the vibe you get from him. His appearance is the OK, fine vibe.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, but what's funny too, you think about it, the whole thing, they had Charles Robinson's little niche, which is the thing they realized, because they realized he was a lifelong player fan, or at least a longtime player fan, and a referee anyway, so they played a part of the story. You could have made David that character, and that would make a lot more sense, little nature boy, because it's literally his son, not a random guy.
00:42:47
Speaker
Flair's reign mercifully end, a statement I feel weird even saying now. Cause you think I mean Rick, but it's definitely David. Uh, he would end on NYTR about three weeks later with a title to go to someone else. A guy who actually is a wrestler and wants to be a wrestler, so that's a step up. Okay. It is funny. I think that it went from Scott Steiner, David Flair, by the way, the reminder.
00:43:07
Speaker
That's so weird. That is odd. Chronology. WWE loves to do this little timeline thing where he has all the champions. I wanted to see if they had one for the US title. Just so Scott's daughter flexing into Dave Flair awkwardly sort of staring at the camera because he's not sure what to do. Poor guy.
00:43:23
Speaker
As far as Lincoln goes, him and Benoit of course out of the horsemen can no longer exist. So they would form alongside Perry Saturn and Shane Douglas. They formed the revolution. Three of those four would then be a six man tag match on the next show, which thankfully did not suck. And the remaining one would be pretty much abandoned by the remaining three for his match. Yes. But somehow they're a group.
00:43:51
Speaker
Tony throws to a video package covering Kurt Hennig's views on rap music.
00:43:57
Speaker
Hey, Master P, how you doing, man? What's up, Kurt? How you doing, man? You are the king of rap. I love your music so much. I love your music more than anybody in the world. I'm true to the game, man. I'm bowdy-bowdy all the way. You are unbelievable. Love it a bad day? I'm just, you know, you... You're body-body, huh? Oh, all the way, man. I love rap. I love rap music. Maybe an autograph or something, man. I got something special for you, since you're true to the game. You got one of them too, big baby? Right here, right here. Oh, man. This your special autograph sound. You don't know how much I appreciate this. I mean, this is...
00:44:29
Speaker
Man, this is the best keeps. This is the greatest gift that I have ever gotten. I am going to keep this. In fact, I respect this. Let me show you how much I really respect this. That's about how much I respect it.
00:44:45
Speaker
Hennig does a really good job with the opening bit sounding enthusiastic, but just a touch insincere before he breaks the CD that he's given by Master P. That is the name, right? I don't know rappers. I was about to say, do you even know what Master P is? I hate rap. There's only one thing that I hate because it's a bunch of crap. I hate rap.
00:45:16
Speaker
is crap. Rap is crap.
00:45:28
Speaker
I adore the music video segment of this promo package with their anti-rap song Rap is Crap. Yeah. Largely because Henig and company are so clearly having a good time making a music video. They are, yeah. It's one of those infectious enthusiasm segments. The song definitely would not be winning any awards. No. But it was a lot of fun watching them. But what is it with WSW songs in this era that are just lists of things that the singer likes? They did that with three count too. Oh yeah, that's true.
00:45:59
Speaker
Right now, we're gonna give you what you all came to hear. That's that number one song. It's all the way to the top. It's called Rap is Crap. And it goes like this right here. All right.
00:46:15
Speaker
Weirdly, the video cuts off quite suddenly as Hennig's announcing another performance of it, which I thought at the time was going to be interrupted by their foes. But I listened to the WSW Mayhem album today again against my better judgment. You poor man. Yes. The intro he's giving here is identical to the one that they play on the Mayhem album when they go into the song, which sounds like it was recorded at that time. So I think they actually do get a full performance there. I'm not sure. OK.
00:46:44
Speaker
But quite suddenly, the video cuts off and we get Dave Penzer in a look behind the scenes as he announces match in five. Oh, yeah. So our fourth match is the no limit soldiers. That's Conan Ray Mysterio, Jr. Swole and B.A., otherwise known as Brad Armstrong in one of his less ridiculous and copyright infringing gimmicks. Yes.
00:47:09
Speaker
with Chase and 4x4, versus the West Texas Rednecks, Kurt Hennig, Bobby Duncan Jr., Barry Windham, and Kendall Windham, in an elimination tag match. Referee for this one is Nick Patrick. Haven't I learned any lesson from booking JLNO, Des Rodman, or Kiss, for that matter.
00:47:30
Speaker
The company would spend a small fortune having Master P to appear on television. To be fair, it was a big deal for him to be like a celebrity at this point, $9.99. Even if we necessarily don't know him that well or at all, he is generally well, well known, especially then. And his son, of course, has done very well for himself as well.
00:47:49
Speaker
They paid him a lot of money to show up on Nitro alongside his 1,000-person entourage, or so it seemed. They would, of course, run afoul of famous cowboy Kurt Hennig, because Minnesota is definitely a cowboy town. Cowboy state, I should say. I'm sure they have fields, and I'm sure they raise cattle, but that's not my first thought. There's a reason that the group was named the West Texas Rednecks, not the West Minnesota Rednecks. Yes, exactly. I was going to joke that Minnesota is west of Texas, but I don't think it's actually true.
00:48:17
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that I made that exact confusion. Road Wild 99, I think. Yeah, OK. You corrected me on that. Yeah, I was like, I was going to at least try to make it make sense. You know, he would tell you with the Wyndham Brothers and Bob Adagam Jr. The interesting thing with this story plays out and you see a bit of it in the video packages. So in the earlier package with Master P, as he runs in a backstage event to be a phantom, as people give him a CD and he smashes it and he's confronted by like a large sum of people.
00:48:46
Speaker
It is the no limit soldiers, so there are no limits to the number of them that will show up. Yeah, presumably it's like a clown car limo. It's like those segments where you've got the boss in a video game and until you beat the boss, the ads just keep coming in.
00:49:00
Speaker
Yeah. Every health segment more just come in. Yeah. Gotcha. So Hennig is supposed to be the heel in this story, but here he's standing up to a large army of people. Yes. And then later in the second and last appearance of Master P, they got to just go up on Nitro to celebrate his son's birthday. Hennig then comes in the ring and surrounded by people, gives medicinalist gift of a cowboy hat, but to get stomped on by the son, he's still kind of a heel because he's giving someone a gift they don't want. The worst kind of person in the world, of course.
00:49:30
Speaker
But again, he's confronted and attacked by all these people. So we find three of the guys that are like minded, but not for the same state. It seemed like a face like forming a faction to fend off another group. Yeah, yeah, it's like just odd.
00:49:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's the trouble. And as we'll see is a problem with the match itself to some degree as well. It feels like it's booked not entirely backwards, but a little bit backwards, where it's always the heel that's outnumbered. It's always the heel that's getting beaten down.
00:50:02
Speaker
He's being insulting, like he is being insulting, but he's being beaten up by guys who have the numbers where they could just brush him off and, you know, laugh at him or something instead. It definitely feels like what he's done is not enough to justify what they've done in response. Well, in fact, he's always fighting against the bigger odds. Right. Yeah.
00:50:20
Speaker
If you had him the first time he shows up, he meets just Master P himself backstage, maybe with one other guy. Sure. Because you probably want someone there that it's OK for Henning to beat up. Yeah, yeah. And then he beats that guy down just unprovoked after breaking the CD and then again shows up with larger numbers. He's already organized the rednecks. Yeah. Only then do you have the much larger group show up in response. Then I think it goes better. Right.
00:50:47
Speaker
I actually did do some research on Suol because he surprised me, has a Wiki page, which is what I thought he would have to be honest with you. Four by four does not, and Chase doesn't have one, but it's okay. He started training for wrestling back in 1991. He was trained by Brad Reingans, who was an Olympic wrestler that was also a pro race wrestler.
00:51:05
Speaker
Incidentally pro wrestler trained by Vern Konya. Oh, that's true. Thank you. That's true. Yeah. It all connects. Well, what's really weird about think about this connections you have here in the very, very dying days of anyway, that being 1991, but they close at like September that year. They took on a few shows, even after the terrible team challenge series and their failed repilot. Yeah. She also covered. Yeah. He actually wrestled two matches for the eight of the way back in that 21. Nice.
00:51:33
Speaker
So if you ever thought the AWS connection being Swole and Kurt Hennig, you would have not guessed that. No, no, that's, that is shocking. Yeah. Yeah. You also wrestled come back to the ultra pan before going back to the football player. And there's kind of a big gap in his resume and some Wikipedia cause that obviously not the most thorough source. It shows him from playing football through 93, 94, and then just kind of reappearing here. So. Unsurprisingly, his name isn't actually Swole. Yeah.
00:51:59
Speaker
What a surprise. I know. However, his actual real name, as far as Wikipedia goes, is Randy Thornton. That is awesome. So close to being like the most famous third generation wrestler. Yes. And a match full of second, third generation wrestlers. I would love if he had somehow gotten a job with the WWE during that same period. Yeah. And you had the Thornton and Norton. Oh, yeah. There you go. Bob Warden. Junior says, you know, it's not officially your brother, but you know, wink, wink, nut, nut. Yeah.
00:52:30
Speaker
You know, I traveled, I traveled the country a long time. Oh, we're getting into the Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko angle again. Oh, that or the Kurt Angle is the legitimate son, Jason Jordan angle as well. The rednecks enter first to their song. Rap is crap. Things that I notice. Penzer announces Dunkum between the two Windoms, which means he has to say the Windoms hometown of Sweetwater, Texas twice. Yeah. Efficiency man.
00:53:01
Speaker
A fan holds up a sign. Rap is crap, but country is worse. Well, buddy, this is your snack break. In fact, skip the next match too for unrelated reasons. Probably, yeah. The No Limit soldiers are out next. 4x4 is absolutely massive. I don't know why Maskless Ray Mysterio continues to insist on wearing clothes or hats that are so oversized that he looks like a child playing dress up. Yeah.
00:53:29
Speaker
Swole is apparently from No Limitsville. Yeah. Does No Limitsville cover, like, the whole universe? Inherently, I would think. Conan's hat spells his name with a C rather than a K, which I'm sure gave WSTB's legal team some cold sweats. Heenan, regarding the soldiers' outfits, notes that you could avoid all that if you put a light in the closet.
00:53:56
Speaker
Notably not accompanying the No Limit Soldiers, Master P. Conan gets a microphone and talks about salads and potatoes for a moment before running through his usual catchphrases. Ray apparently goes backwards through puberty to yell the No Limit Soldiers catchphrase. His voice goes off several octaves.
00:54:24
Speaker
Apparently that's how you're supposed to do that, or at least a lot of them do that. Why? I'm not saying it makes sense. It's grown men making owl noises, so I don't know where logic you're expecting, Bob. What have they done to you, Ray? Barry and Mysterio start, and Mysterio dodges around until Barry catches him on a moonsault, but Mysterio slips free and whips him to the turnbuckle, then gets two with a moonsault.
00:54:49
Speaker
Hen Egg in, and Mysterio ends up on the apron, where he tags Armstrong, which is apparently legal. Armstrong vs Hen Egg would be great, but we only get a taste as Armstrong lands a few quick throws and showboats. Credit to him, he's really going for this gimmick. Yeah. And we switch to Dunkum and Swole. Dunkum gets two, with a couple elbow drops, and Mysterio saves.
00:55:10
Speaker
Kendall in with heavy hits, but Swole dodges a splash and tags Mysterio, who walks in right beneath his arm without ducking. Yes, true. Swole is tall and Mysterio is not. Kendall lands hard strikes and catches a springboard Rana, but Mysterio lands punches until both spill outside, knocking poor Dunkum off the apron in the process.
00:55:33
Speaker
Tag to Conan, and Henig in without a whisper of a tag, which Patrick allows even though he really should be counting Kendall out. Yeah. Conan and Henig fight, and Rey and Dunkum interject, the former much more acrobatically, and Rey and Conan hit some fast-paced double teams. A confused Swole appears to reach for a tag from Rey, but gets one from Conan, as apparently Dunkum is legal now, too, somehow. Sure. Swole pins Dunkum for three, off of Rey's springboard leg drop, for elimination one.
00:56:03
Speaker
Dunkum tries to get back in, so Chase and 4x4 beat him up. Barry gets 2 on Conan with a suplex, but Conan later escapes Henig, and tags Armstrong who aggressively attacks, but a Henig clothesline sneaky hit from the apron by Barry, and the Henigplex put him down for 3. Elimination 2. Someone audibly yelled, s***, there.
00:56:25
Speaker
Conan in, and Heddig pokes his eyes and tags Kendall, who beats him up and gets two with a leg drop. But Conan dodges a second, earns two with a facebuster, and gets three off of Ray's springboard dropkick into a Conan... sort of... frontside crucifix or DDT roll-up? He's going for, like, a small package, I think, with the forward roll into it is the idea, but yeah. Yeah. A bit off. Elimination three.
00:56:49
Speaker
Barry earns two counts with a back suplex and a DDT as Kendall, trying to reenter, is held off by Chase and 4x4. Henik sneaks in some strikes, and Barry gets a diving clothesline for two, but Conan hits his rolling lariat and clotheslines Barry and himself out over the ropes. They fight outside and Chase just comes over and carries Barry away, followed for no good reason by Conan, so Patrick counts Barry and Conan out for eliminations 4 and 5.
00:57:17
Speaker
Seriously, why did Conan go over there? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure what you would do in relation to the Barry Winden part, because I mean, who you get is qualified in a multi person match for that happening. But yeah, Conan's like, oh, let's see where he's going with this. Yeah, literally. We're down to Henig versus Swole and Ray. Swole lands punches, but suddenly Barry charges back in and Swole fights him and Henig until Chase comes in and is true to his name, chasing Barry off.
00:57:44
Speaker
Henig retreats, but 4x4 blocks his way and Henig gives him this great, oh what now kind of expression. Back in, Swole lands a nice palm thrust and tags Mysterio. Mysterio dives off Swole's shoulders to splash Henig for the three count for elimination six and the win. Two against one, Henig complains. That's not right. Tony points out they also had the advantage with Chase and 4x4 outside.
00:58:13
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? So I think the format of this match kind of works given the experience level they're dealing with with Swole and the way they're kind of booking everyone in general. It means constant tags in and out and constant action. So it's less, there's no time for chin locks and such, for instance.
00:58:32
Speaker
I still am not going to say it's a great match, but I think they manage certain people the right way. Like Swole comes in, looks strong a little bit, but doesn't hang around real long. They know that he's not that experienced. He's the least experienced person in a match, as they say. So it's smart not to have him say, work 60% of the match like they did in, I don't know, the last batch of the big show with two NBA players working in long holds with each other. Yeah, maybe.
00:59:03
Speaker
The real, like the star of this match is that he's very Mysterio. In spite of how they've butchered his look with the no mask, that can be no horns yet. Yes. And just, yeah, the fact that he's wearing like Conant clothes, other than the fact that they've butchered his look, he's still wearing Mysterio, who is still good even in this day, 24 years later now, practically, a little over. So I like that he has so much involved in this match.
00:59:31
Speaker
It is weird that they make a point of such pre-brand Brad Armstrong as BA, and he has so little in the match. It's surprising. Yeah, he doesn't have a huge part. He's good while he's in there. No, yeah, he's not bad in the match. I mean, it's Brad Armstrong, so that's not a surprise. No. But yeah, it is funny that they bothered giving this guy a new gimmick and then basically don't use him that much. Exactly. Yeah. Especially when, like I said, I would love to see a Brad Armstrong versus Kurt Hennig match. Yeah. I imagine that'd be pretty cool.
01:00:00
Speaker
I think they manage the time well here as well, because no one sort of stays in too long. There's no time for long sort of boring holds. And I think it's really drawn out. So I think it's based pretty well. Yeah, I found this quite fun. It's a good mix of different wrestling styles that blend surprisingly well. In particular, I am not sure that I would have called that 80s and early 90s great Barry Windham would work so well with the lucha style of Ray Mysterio. Yeah. But they for the short time, they're in the match together. They blend really well.
01:00:27
Speaker
Except for a minor slip up here and there and an awkward build to the finish, the action was quite solid and entertaining. They managed a good flow and a back and forth feel. And there's a good bit of action between each elimination. I've seen others where they just suddenly come fast and furious at the very end. And this was definitely preferable. I love the actual ending spot too. It's a great spectacle. Yeah.
01:00:47
Speaker
That said, the booking is deeply strange. Yeah. With the no limit soldiers, the faces constantly the ones with the man advantage. Yeah. They're always up on the heels when you normally want the other way around to build tension. Plus, they have two extra guys outside the ring and Ray is constantly jumping in to get people from behind. Ray is really playing like us in tag matches. Yes. The game where he constantly just started to drop the guy when they're going to come back.
01:01:14
Speaker
They totally look like the heels here, and the crowd sometimes seems a bit confused as a result. Yeah, thankfully they love Ray and Conan, so it helps. Yeah. To be fair, there are several cheap shots and heelish taxes from the rednecks, and they're the ones constantly trying to come back in after they've been eliminated. But to be less fair, one of those eliminations is literally that Chase, i.e. not a match participant, carries Barry Windham out away for a countout. Yeah.
01:01:38
Speaker
Once you've noticed it, it's hard to ignore the backwards feel and just enjoy the action. Yeah. If you can, though, it is a genuinely enjoyable match. Someone must remember this finish in more recent history because I want to say about 10 years later, it's the 2009, 2010, maybe might be off exactly in the year. There's a Survivor Series match where it's Team Shawn Michaels. So you got a match that involves Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio and the Great Khali.
01:02:07
Speaker
OK, I can see where that's going. Yeah, so that yeah, they do. They do this exact finish where Ray Mysterio climbs on Kali's shoulders and dives off and gets a splash. Good use of the great Kali. Yeah, obviously Ray remembered the spot because he's the one in both matches. Yes, yeah. It's like, you know, I did this and all those soldiers matches really good.
01:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great spot. I mean, I really like that as the finish. Yeah. I just wish the match were a little bit more intelligently booked, getting to that point. Yeah. But the actual finish is really hot. Yeah. It's never really to the match simply, but it's something I find amusing timing wise. So the overall thing with this angle is rap versus country and more generally rap fans, the country fans, they don't get along how different they are, you know, trying to know their differences, but they can't.
01:02:56
Speaker
About two months before this illegal starts, in April 1999, a young man is born named Lil Nas X, who bridges rap and country. This is true. Is it a coincidence? Probably not.
01:03:10
Speaker
one minor credit to the WSW Mayhem album, by the way. They have positioned the Rap as Crap song immediately after Conan's theme, which is a rap song. Of course. And of course, Conan is part of the No Limit Soldiers group, so they have at least emphasized the feud with their music album. Still doesn't change the fact that that album is a piece of crap, but
01:03:34
Speaker
At least you're the one that bought it. I'm the one that bought it, I just gave it to you. I'm the villain here, clearly. Yes, you definitely are. The West Texas Rednecks would fight the Revolution team I mentioned in the previous match, and a six-man match at Road Wild. The duo would also briefly hold the tag titles as the duo of the Wyndham Brothers. So it's kind of a weird bit of a look when you look at it, because they work a four-on-four match here. Next year, they work a three-on-three match.
01:04:03
Speaker
And then they work a 2-1-2 match with the tag titles. Slowly deducting. Yeah. Eventually get down just Kurt Henig and think we're good. As far as the limited soldiers, they would quickly stop being a thing, unsurprisingly, given the whole angle is Master P and he's gone and his son is gone. And it's just wrestlers that either actually rap like Conan or just are adjacent people that rap like Ray, or just work backstage like Red Armstrong. Yes.
01:04:30
Speaker
Ray and Conan would eventually, fairly quickly after this, unite with Eddie Guerrero and Billy Kidman. That's how we get the filthy animals. Right, right, right, right. Which is kind of a Jason gimmick. It's like they took the no limit soldiers idea and just were like, oh, we don't have Master P anymore. Let's just jam them in the same kind of thing. Yeah.
01:04:47
Speaker
Curiously, it would then lead in a way to a rap versus rap match because that same road wild show. So the six man match where it's Eddie Guerrero, Kidman and Ray against Vampiro in the ICP. Why you got to remind me of these things, man. History is weird. The existence of the ICP. I didn't want to remember that. As far as the so the remainder of the group, you're looking at the a swole chase and four by four.
01:05:16
Speaker
They would just kind of hang around a bit longer, about a few weeks. Honestly, it's not even like a month goes by. The last appearance by the Noem soldiers on the August 31st episode of WSW Saturday night, which is probably pre-tape anyways, because Saturday night. That's the last time they would appear, and it's also the last time Swole would wrestle.
01:05:34
Speaker
It's kind of a shame they spend so much time building up. Well, he's this big guy. He's got a future. I'm curious where he's going to go when he doesn't when he doesn't a month later. It's a shame that he doesn't because he was not bad in this match. You can tell he's not as experienced as the other guy in the ring. Sure. Yeah. But he definitely had some good moves. I really loved that palm thrust at the end. He like got a good.
01:05:56
Speaker
He has the drop for the knee down for his bow. Yeah, he got good emphasis of the force. Yeah. And I don't think by actually adding legit force to it, he has a good look, a good, impressive build. And yeah, it seemed like he had stamina and an ability to move in the ring. Yeah. I would have liked to see more from him. It's kind of a drop ball, really, from those Debbie that they had this guy. And for a reason, I don't know why he's that brussel. I don't know if he just didn't want to anymore. It could be more to the story. But if they could have kept him and they didn't, it's a shame.
01:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Upcoming Matches and Storyline Questions
01:06:24
Speaker
He definitely had some potential, I think. Agreed. We cut to the commentary desk where Tony goes over the upcoming matches. Tony notes, again, that Sting and Nash aren't really a tag team because Sting could pin Nash and win the world title. How? How can they both be legal at the same time? You have to address these things, WCW. Space is warped in time as rail to Baba to tell you.
01:06:53
Speaker
Tony and Hienan discuss the junkyard invitational, and Hienan lists off things we could see, which appears to include Rottweilers. Tony cracks up as Hienan struggles to describe the match, and agrees that it's going to be unique. Hienan starts a story about a fight in a car at a drive-in movie theater involving a speaker on a post as Tony shakes his head and laughs, but Tony finally reclaims control to talk up the toughness of the match competitors. That was far more entertaining than the match itself is going to be. Yeah, exactly.
01:07:22
Speaker
Tony throws to video of Hacks Challenge to other wrestlers from Nitro. Weirdly, it opens with a heavy, like, grainy effect, but then fades to normal quality moments later. I think they're emulating the ECW vibe. They had that sort of feel where they would shoot in, like, the backstage area. No, I get that, but it's just, like, they do this, like, aha, it's crappy camera quality. Oh, suddenly, it's perfect. Oh, yeah, that's what I mean, yeah. They're not doing it well, but that's why... Just, like, keep that effect on for the entire video, and it would make more sense.
01:07:51
Speaker
I'm calling out every single tough man on this planet. Knobs, you want to meet me in that junkyard? You go ahead. Bigelow, you got him big enough? You meet me in that junkyard. Raven, I know you're all licking your wounds. You, Morris, sign on the dotted line. You want to get extreme? I'll show you extreme. Bass is the beat, junkyard max.
01:08:18
Speaker
It's an okay short promo, kendo stick to the forehead aside, but it's a bit weird to play it here since two of the four people mentioned, Bigelow and Raven, will not be in the match. Yeah, true. Just kind of strange that you're built up to this, you have a 50% success rate. Yeah. Our fifth match, and apologies here, as we don't get entrances for this match or any kind of list of competitors, so I have done my best to list them off based on who I saw.
Hacks Challenge Setup
01:08:45
Speaker
is Brian Knobs, Jerry Flynn, not Lynn, Flynn, LaParca in Flannel, Jimmy Hart, it's unclear if he's actually a competitor or not, Fit Finley, The Public Enemy, Rock O'Rock and Johnny Grunge, Silver King, Hugh Morris, Lord Steven Regal, David Taylor, Horace Hogan, Hardcore Hack, Mikey Wiprek, and C'Clipay in a junkyard invitational match for a crappy looking trophy. Referee for this one is Scott Dickinson, who I'm sure was loving it.
01:09:15
Speaker
My, my description was way too many people and they jumped in every national match. I have a database. I have to try to, I know you can't put way too many people in database. Yeah. I understand. EC dub EC dub WCW wanted some of that ECW fan base to hop on over to their shows since they were exactly winning in the ratings, that whole a three weeks thing. That's the past. Yes.
01:09:40
Speaker
As such, they hired a bunch of ECW stars over the ensuing year, such as Raven, Mike Wiprek, and Sandman. They renamed Hardcore Hack and made a weird, like rich guy that lived down in California Hills for some reason. And they started doing hardcore matches. As Notif and Vue packages randomly run throughout the show, Ric Flair does not like hardcore matches, which is weird for a guy who bleeds so much. A little bit, yeah.
01:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, so as such, this is a non-sanctioned match that takes place outside the arena, because the best match to take place outside the arena, like the super truck monster truck match. Can't even say it properly. It's so dumb.
01:10:20
Speaker
We also have the people fighting by a lake, like the middle of the woods, the demon and Vampiro. Yeah, that is next year. I know. I know. Why are you bringing up things that just make me dread the next show? Well, you know, it's like building up scar tissue to repair you. Trying to help you out.
01:10:45
Speaker
So if you're wondering who set up the ring of cars they fight in, was it Sandman, Jimmy Hart, Kaiser Soze? Oh, also worth noting, as you mentioned, Stephen Riegel's in this match. This is his re-debut in WCW. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Riegel.
Regal's Return and Junkyard Match
01:11:04
Speaker
Rigo was fired from WCW for allegedly shooting on Goldberg in their match. He went to WWF. He unfortunately had a lot of personal demons. He got as far as working a match on Soraya series, 1998. So about six months before this show, to seven months, he got fired right after that because it was not getting better. And he's back here now and he's a random guy we see wearing like sweatpants and a sweater. Yeah. Florida junk garden summer.
01:11:34
Speaker
But yeah, so it's a bunch of people fighting a junkyard to win a trophy. Hooray. So here's the rules as I understand them. The competitors start in the center of a ring of junk automobiles. To win, a competitor has to make his way to a specific fence at the edge of the junkyard and climb up and over to escape, and the first competitor to do so wins. Yes.
01:11:57
Speaker
Dickinson blows an air horn to signal the start of the match and somehow manages to look the most bored anyone has ever looked while sounding an air horn. It's true. Yeah. Come on, man. Take pleasure in making noise. Exactly. I'm not going to try to summarize this match. It is dark. It is chaotic. It's darn near impossible to follow. And to be frank, 90 percent of it is people hitting each other with things or running each other into cars anyway. Yeah. But at least here are some things that occurred. OK.
01:12:28
Speaker
Lots of helicopter shots, just to make sure we have to see this from as far away as possible. With a spotlight. With a spotlight, yeah. Yeah, that didn't help. No. The public enemy push a car off another car while absolutely no one is in any danger, which I do prefer, but maybe renders the spot ever so slightly pointless. Yeah. Jerry Flynn jabs a wire into a car, which several seconds too late causes sparks to shoot out, and someone I think Silver King pretends to be electrocuted very poorly. Yeah, it takes about three tries to get to work.
01:12:56
Speaker
The camera focuses on Morris while he's clearly looking around for whoever he's supposed to do his next spot with, and remains focused on him until finally Hack wanders over to walk him away. Yes.
01:13:07
Speaker
Hack, Taylor, and I believe Flynn brawl by a pile of cars, and Hack can be heard blatantly notifying them that someone is preparing to dive. And then even more blatantly calls to a nearby knobs and crunch. Come on, come here. Hey, come on, come here. Yeah. Someone in sparkly boots dives off onto them. I believe that it is Cyclope, as Tony later mentions his name when someone in similar boots is on screen. I think it's Silver King. Definitely not Silver King because definitely a guy with a mask.
01:13:33
Speaker
OK, so that's what's the problem. So they shoot this at ground level. The way that spot works inside and, you know, not under spotlight is you shoot at level with them and then sort of tilt or pan up. Yeah, they never pan out. Yeah. And see a guy diving. I also thought superking is the last time you see him, he was up on the carpet and be executed. So I thought maybe. Yeah, it's not silver king's boots anyway that I see diving. And the guy definitely has a mask. So I'm pretty sure it's sickle pay.
01:14:01
Speaker
Alt worth noting, it's actual Sequel Play and not Demolinko. It is actual Sequel Play, yeah. Demolinko did not get saddled with this crap. Thank God. Laparca has brought his trademark folding chair to throw at knobs. Of course he did, Tony Notes.
01:14:15
Speaker
Morris throws Silver King onto a windshield. I believe the same one that Horace threw Rock-O-Rock onto earlier, and King clearly jerks in pain and checks his shoulder. Later, we see him with a very bloody arm as, shockingly, throwing someone onto a windshield somebody else already broke is a terrifically bad idea. Yeah, his back on his right side and up under his arm is bleeding very badly. Yeah, yeah.
01:14:38
Speaker
Morris later hurls himself at Mikey Whipwreck on the same Cars hood, but Whipwreck dodges so Morris eats Windshield too. Maybe he felt bad about Silver King, I don't know. Yeah. Horace can be heard telling Finley to block a punch. Shockingly, Finley blocks. Yeah. Finley hits him a few times, and I believe Horace can also be heard saying one more. Tony claims that Finley, wielding of trashcan lid, is like Captain America.
Critique of the Junkyard Match
01:15:02
Speaker
There goes Tony's chance at MVP. Yeah.
01:15:06
Speaker
Regal, probably wondering what the hell he's doing in this match, has to bend over and hold someone on the roof of a car for a very long time, as he clearly waits for a very late Silver King to punch him in the crotch. Yeah. For the first time, we see folks actually wandering over near the fence that they're supposed to care about climbing, as Rock or Rock and Horus walk each other that way. Rock runs Horus into it and tries climbing, but Horus drags him back down in about the most boring way it would be possible to do that. Yeah.
01:15:33
Speaker
Bloodied Silver King beats the ever-loving crap out of Brian Knobs in the only legitimate intense shot of this match. Hack puts Finley in a trunk and signals for someone to drive a forklift over. I don't know who was driving, genuinely. It wasn't one of the wrestlers. Yeah. Finley escapes comfortably 11 or 12 seconds before the forklift can get the car into a car crusher. Tony talks about it like he escaped one or two seconds before. Yeah.
01:15:57
Speaker
Also, the forklift driver could clearly see him escape, but put the car in anyway. Might as well, right? Yeah. The car crusher has a logo of a son wearing sunglasses. There's a couple of companies, honestly, around our area where we live. They're like that. Yeah. Yeah. The car being crushed is obviously not crushed. And a little puff of obvious pyro goes off from behind the crusher. It's absolutely laughable. It's terrible. Yeah.
01:16:22
Speaker
Finley knocks over a flaming barrel near an already flaming car and wanders over to the fence completely unopposed. More pyro goes off by the car, and Tony says that'll stop people from interfering even though Finley was already over the fence and home free by the time it happened. Yeah. Finley escapes, putting this match out of my misery. They're not so tough, Finley bellows. Tony claims that he set the car ablaze with the barrel, but that's clearly not what happened. Thoughts on this piece of garbage?
01:16:49
Speaker
It's pure chaos. In theory, that could be fun. Like there's a level of chaos that could go. Oh, this is interesting. This is different feeling. I could see in the very basic stages of trying to make this match idea. Let's have a bunch of guys who are used to working hardcore matches. We'll get some lucha guys so they can do fun jumps and dives. And you know, make a unique area like this is a video game. And we're playing it could be fun.
01:17:15
Speaker
You can say that about so many of WSW is really bad matches, can't you? Yeah. Like, this would be awesome on a video game, but oh, my gosh, it's horrible to watch. Yeah. Yeah. They don't treat any of the stars properly because they don't explain who's there when they the match has started. They were already fighting. Yeah. They're like 30 seconds into the match, apparently, at least everyone's just fighting and they go, wait, oh, look, it's rock and rock and Johnny Grunge. And oh, look, it's Steve Reagunz and him in a while. You know, all these things that come up.
01:17:44
Speaker
We can literally see because I would badly choreographed in film. This is they don't plot things out. Right. Like you can see people go, oh, I'm going to do this to you now. Like you hear them actually talking like they're calling spots. Even in better plotted matches, wrestlers will obviously call spots. But the most plane I've ever seen is still, hey, come on, come over here. Yes. I nothing is going to top that so far. Yeah, I believe moments where I can't hear it as clearly, but I believe he's saying he's about to dive. I think so. The two guys he's actually fighting with that. He's like, hey, come here, come here.
01:18:13
Speaker
He actively drags them over so that they can pick her by and catch it. It's amazing. And so I could see again, we're playing this idea of a match out and calling a match is very generous. I know that sounds fun, but it's not shot well. None of it's done well. Unfortunately. I love public enemy and I love the parka and they would bolt them in one match. And it's this, this had to be torture for you. It was not fun. No.
01:18:41
Speaker
We have seen this match before years, probably years ago at this point when we were watching it before we started our podcast series. So I remember how bad this was. So I went into this match first time with you and then again when I rewatched it thinking, okay, I know this is not good. Can I find good stuff in this match?
01:18:57
Speaker
I really tried because it needs you to go. Oh, yeah, this is famously bad match. Of course, it sucks. I wouldn't like the park. I want I guess you would share a spot once. But by the end, it's just him and I think Brian knobs or someone just throwing stuff at each other. It's like really not great. I think I have three compliments to this match that I will give. OK.
01:19:17
Speaker
One, LaParca wearing flannel is hilarious. Uh-huh, sure. Two, LaParca gets to do his tear shot. And three, that one bit where Silver King is beating the crap out of somebody and it actually has a motion for a tenth of a second. I do get some joy the fact that with his black tire and like spangly boots, that Silver King looks a lot like Randy Savage. Mm-hmm. That helps a bit. Probably never says that again, but it did service people like Brian Knobs.
01:19:43
Speaker
Like if this was done in 2023, or even in the last few years, when we got into the whole cinematic thing, which started obviously before COVID, but obviously during and around it, that sped up a lot, because you could film stuff safer and quicker and just run it. This happened now, they would just cut out where they call spots. Yeah. Like you see hack in them, and then you see the dive, you wouldn't see the buildup. You cut around the terrible attempt to spark a car somehow. Yes.
01:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, I really wanted this match to be better for all who involved and it's just, it's so bad. They could have done it in a stage area. It would have looked less real, like gritty. The trailers, of course, people got legit injured in this match because they're slamming on car hoods and car windshields and bleeding and it's concussions. A lot of people got hurt in this match. It's so ridiculous. It is not worth it. Yeah. No, no.
01:20:38
Speaker
This was all the worst parts of bad hardcore matches. The pointless endless brawling with weapon shot after weapon shot and obvious visible setup for any big stunts without any actual plot or build, but with the added bonus of being extremely poorly lit, poorly shot, and intercut with helicopter shots to make extra super sure that the viewer loses all track of the action.
01:21:00
Speaker
It's impossible to draw any sense of progression or story from this at all. It's just random crap being hurled around at people, or random people being hurled at random crap. Yeah. It's all the more annoying because the goal of this match should make it easy to give it a plot. The goal is to reach a specific fence and escape.
01:21:20
Speaker
We don't get a single shot of someone going over to the fence until Horace and Rock go there, four minutes before the end of the match. Yeah. The match times list is 1351, so we've got nearly 10 minutes of pointlessness before someone gets around to the actual goal of the match, and they're the only two that try it before Finley goes over completely unopposed and wins. Yeah, it's true, yeah.
01:21:41
Speaker
At a mix of extremely dangerous stunts that were accidents waiting to happen, and in some cases did, flat out stupid moments like the Car Crusher debacle, and several moments where wrestlers audibly called spots, and you have a disaster of a match that, again, dragged down for nearly 14 minutes, which felt more like 14 days. This was one of the worst things that I have had the displeasure of watching for Let's Go to the Ring.
01:22:06
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know where it ranks in my like bottom 10, I guess, or bottom five. Again, have you ever seen this match? I knew it's gonna be bad. So when it's as bad as I expect, it's less of a disappointment then match I go, Oh, this is interesting. And it's like, crap. Yeah. And that that does defend the match because it's still bad. But when you think to me bad it is, you're like, well, yeah, so I thought
01:22:30
Speaker
The reason that I call it among the worst is I think twofold. Number one, actually threefold. Let's go with three. So number one, the complete lack of visibility. Yes.
01:22:44
Speaker
Number two, the complete lack of a plot, despite the fact that it would be easy to give it one. And number three, length. Agreed. We have had crappier action on the show. Agreed, Dan. Not by a ton, but crappier action on the show. Generally, it has not gone on for this long. Yeah.
01:23:02
Speaker
That's when a bad match goes into my worst matches of the series type of thing. It generally is when it combines bad action and length. If you make me suffer for two minutes, I'm going to be annoyed at you. But generally, you're not going to get my worst matches of the series. I'm sure I'll look back now and see two-minute matches that I think were worst matches of the series. I would say the exception is that skyscrapers match. Right. When you botch literally everything at one minute. That's an understandable exception.
01:23:31
Speaker
But generally, it's ones that I'm just like, oh, my gosh, this took so much of my my time on this planet. Yeah. I mean, as a whole, I mean, I've watched it three times now, kind of the original time we viewed it and then twice for the show. Yeah. I don't know if you end up watching. Actually, I managed the same purely because I refused to summarize it. There enough. Yeah. That was a good decision. My part.
01:23:57
Speaker
Even if this one fix happens, there's still a bunch of problems, but I had one idea that would at least make this match have an actual flow to it in theory and deal with some of the issues. Space out the entrances. Yeah, yeah. Right. Knob start because they're the two faces of this just sad thing to say.
01:24:16
Speaker
And you have people show up, whether it's a timer thing or you, you can have fun with like, instead of the buzzer from the more rumble, we'll have some sort of junkyardy trashy sort of sound effect to play signal. Yeah. That gives you a still silly, but an explanation for why public enemy pushes the car over. Like we're doing the match. Here's the car. We just shove it over. Look how tough we are. You know, it's still dumb. Cause if there was two exits and they blocked one exit with that fine.
01:24:44
Speaker
If there was someone at least like coming towards it that was like, I'm trying to get to the fence and they're like, aha, no, you're not. Yeah. Even if like we know that he's actually like 50 meters that way on camera because he should be and you don't want someone anywhere nearby when you're pushing a car over. Right. But there's just like no suggestion they're walking. But yeah, people coming in and truncated entrances would let you know who's here. Sequel play, if he's one of the doing the dive of the car, that's entered to the match. Yes. And the sequel plays join the match and like you sell these things.
01:25:13
Speaker
And you probably would need to rejigger the wind condition a little bit if you're doing staggered entrances and stuff. Do it, do it worrying style where you can't win until it wins in there. There you go. Yeah. That would also explain why no one tries to win for the first 10 minutes of the match. Yeah. Like you said at the start, I can understand them thinking, hey, let's try something like this. It is an interesting idea. And I could see some way of doing this match and making it a neat thing to watch. Yeah. This was not it. No.
01:25:42
Speaker
This was like the exact opposite of it. Well, that's the greatest irony of this match, too, is so the story is Rick Flair, a hardcore will have happened in a show. Hard cracks like, oh, yeah, Rick Flair, you know, old man, you know, like this stuff. We're going to show you what hardcore is. And he's right. And then, yeah, and they give him this match is like, oh, Rick Flair is right. Yeah, I can prove my point. Yeah. The only way they could have made it more appropriate is bringing Vergania and Luthez back out to openly mock hardcore again. Yeah.
01:26:13
Speaker
going back to spring to be 2000. I remember the one that, that no do the most. And that's saying a lot with that show was the cruise weight match where everyone just suddenly, everyone just suddenly runs and makes starts fighting. They never announced who the legal people are. Yes. Not telling me who's in the match is, is a pretty clear indicator that I'm going to dislike the match most likely. Yeah. It does not help things. Yeah, for sure.
01:26:37
Speaker
So, unfortunately, about two weeks after this, at a house show, there would be a hardcore match. I guess those would happen at house shows. Under Rick Flair, go figure out how that works.
01:26:47
Speaker
would be hardcore match between Brian knobs and Finley. Finley would take a cable bump and a force table broke the wrong way and cut his leg very badly. Oh, dang. That put him out of action until Starrcade. Like with the Goldberg arm wound that he had. Also, I think in 99. Yeah, they had a 99. It was like the inches from having to cut the limb off thing. Oh my gosh. So thankfully, both recovered for that.
01:27:14
Speaker
A while after this, I think by the end of the year, they finally go, you know, we had this hardcore trophy piece of crap thing here. Let's make an actual hardcore title, which they had for about two years. Guess we never won that title. Finley. Come on. Yeah. The inaugural like hardcore invitational winner never wins the hardcore actual title. You make him participate in the junkyard invitational and you don't give him an actual title. Yeah. That's like kicking him while he's down, man. I know, right?
01:27:45
Speaker
Bizarrely, one of the ads that came on Peacock while I was doing my notes was an Acura ad using Voodoo Child, which of course was Hogan's theme during his NWO run.
01:27:56
Speaker
Tony throws to a video package showing, at length, the Jersey Triad beating Benoit and Saturn up backstage, followed by Benoit, Saturn, Malenko, and Bagwell putting Figure 4s on Flair, DDP, Canyon, and Piper, and a bunch of other random shots from a match involving those eight Ambigolo. We finally get a short bit of a promo from Flair, setting up Benoit and Saturn, challenging the Jersey Triad for the tag titles. Goodness, that was long.
01:28:20
Speaker
Is it really worth showing us Buff Bagwell pinning Ric Flair in that match?
WCW World Tag Team Championship
01:28:24
Speaker
It doesn't affect this door at all. No, nor does it really affect his later story. Yeah, not really, no. Our sixth match is the Jersey Triad, Diamond Dallas Page, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Canyon versus the Crippler, Chris Benoit, and Perry Saturn for the Triad's WCW World Tag Team Championship. Referee for this one is Billy Silverman.
01:28:47
Speaker
So a few months back, as we recall, on a previous show, they built a long angle to where Crispin, while at D'Molinko, had to really fight underneath and finally win the tag titles off of Barry Windham and Kurt Hennig, before they realized they hated rap. It's sad that they would not have longed to enjoy the title reign, unfortunately, as it would end in about a few weeks, for notably ending up in the hands of DDP, Chris Canyon, and Bam and Bigelow, clubs of the Jersey Triad, because they're all from Jersey, and there are three of them. It all fits.
01:29:15
Speaker
As part of the chaos of this, we would get the new team of Benoit and Saturn instead of Benoit and Millenco. They would sort of go their own ways as far as teaming, not totally clear why. They do actually briefly hold the tag belts, in fact, beating the triad before losing the back of the game on a pay-per-view, unfortunately.
01:29:33
Speaker
So since they helped them flare, the corrupt president of WSW would allow them to use the free bird rule, which means they could all take part in the match. Oh, it was actually the expanded free bird rule because, so that one allows you to switch out people to pick in a match. Like the same way they did it when they wanted to recover for Kevin Nash beginners. So six a tag in form.
01:29:54
Speaker
Because in this one, they actually just swap out during the match. Yeah. So it's literally a three man team and it's a two man team. All their stuff is handicap matches, three versus two. Right. It is the P-section between picking which two are fighting is they're all fighting. Yeah.
01:30:08
Speaker
It is interesting that they ostensibly do it as there's always a two-man team. Yeah. Because they almost always have only one person in the ring, one on the apron, and then one at ringside. But then the one at ringside will just occasionally trade with the one on the apron. So realistically, it's a three-man team, but there's only one available to tag at any one time. Yeah. I like to think that probably has something to do with the obsessive-compulsive nature of DDP. Most likely. It's like three people on there. No, no, no, that matches work. I'll be down near the floor. That's fine. I'm not doing this.
01:30:40
Speaker
Save this show, guys, please. Tony starts noting the Jersey Triad's ability to switch out, as you just discussed, but is interrupted by the Triad cutting a promo. Of course it did. Who's better than Canyon? You people really disappoint me. All the time I've been there for you. At one time you loved me.
01:31:10
Speaker
Now you hate me. One thing's for sure, you'll never forget me. Because DDP is the greatest
01:31:23
Speaker
Two-time, two-time, two-time heavyweight champion in the world. And together, the Triad is the greatest trifecta ever. Ain't that right, Canyon?
01:31:46
Speaker
It's another short promo here, but I loved page regretfully adding the former to the two time world champ line. Yeah. Just does a good, like uncomfortable saying it. He looks at a Canyon versus. Yeah. Still confused why he says that three times though. Yeah. You're a two time world champion. Say it twice. I guess because of the triad. Maybe. Yeah. The ending bit with the three of them cooperating on the catch phrase is quite fun as well. Yeah.
01:32:13
Speaker
Saturn and Benoit enter, as Tony completes his earlier point, and Paige and Saturn start. Saturn wins some vicious slugfest. Benoit and Bigelow in, and Bigelow clubs Benoit down, but Benoit turns the tide and dropkicks him out. Canyon versus Saturn, and Canyon repeatedly escapes T-bone suplex attempts once by grabbing Silverman, who rather clearly ran into position just so Canyon could unexpectedly do that. But Benoit chops Canyon, so Saturn finally succeeds.
01:32:42
Speaker
Benoit and Saturn trade off wearing Canyon down with some nice double teams, earning two with a double clothesline, as Paige gently encourages Canyon to make the tag, you idiot! Further two counts, off of Benoit backbreaker and Saturn top rope leg drop, as Paige saves.
01:33:00
Speaker
Saturn fights off Page, chases Canyon, and decks Bigelow, but Page hits a diving clothesline from the apron, and Bigelow smashes Saturn to the barricade. Back in, Canyon and Bigelow trade off wearing Saturn down, earning two counts with a Bigelow falling headbutt and Canyon leg drop, and one with a Canyon knee drop as the crowd amuses itself, playing with a beach ball and chants, when staff take it away. Sigh. Bigelow and Saturn stall with a chinlock while that nonsense goes on.
01:33:29
Speaker
Benoit in, and he fights off Bigelow in Canyon, but Paige hits a top rope diving clothesline to stop that. Paige goes up top to taunt, but slips off, but lands on his feet and brilliantly immediately yells at the crowd, turning a funny botch into heel heat.
01:33:44
Speaker
Bigelow gets two off the clothesline and all three Triad members trade off wearing Benoit down, earning more two counts with a page elbow drop, Canyon Sunset Flip, Canyon clothesline, Canyon Alabama Slam, Bigelow Headbutts, Canyon Swinging Neckbreaker, and Page elbow drop. Meanwhile, the crowd amuses itself chanting you suck at somebody unrelated to the match instead of watching the show most of them paid to see.
01:34:07
Speaker
Paige puts on a front face lock to wait that out, and Saturn tries to get them involved by stomping so they'll clap for Benoit as he excitingly fights through his corner by lifting Paige, but they ignore it. Silverman, paying about as much attention as the crowd, misses the tag and sends Saturn back out, so the Triad earn more two counts with a mighty Paige powerbomb and Canyon's second rope leg drop. Paige finally manages to get the crowd's attention by drumming hard on the mat and shouting so that they cheer for Benoit briefly, but they get distracted again.
01:34:38
Speaker
Bigelow gives them a moonsault that they do not deserve, but Benoit dodges and tags Saturn, who runs Wild and clotheslines Page, Canyon, and himself out.
01:34:47
Speaker
Back in, Saturn top rope splash and Benoit swan dive headbutt to Bigelow for one for Benoit. Page and Saturn were legal. Saturn counters Page's diamond cutter attempt with a northern light suplex for two and a half. Silverman blunders in the way and gets KO'd as Saturn lifts Page for the Death Valley driver so Canyon throws powder in Saturn's eyes but a similarly blinded Page thanks him with an accidental diamond cutter for two for Benoit.
01:35:14
Speaker
Neither were legal. The crowd did count along, so they're finally back into this. Yeah. Benoit, German suplex for two. Paige sends a metal trash can in, and Silverman tries to take it, but ends up between. Ends up between Bigelow and Canyon, when Saturn and Benoit whip them at each other, so he's KO'd again.
01:35:33
Speaker
Paige hits Benoit with the trashcan, then tries Saturn, but Saturn ducks so he hits Canyon. No bother, his big load lifts Saturn for a double team diamond cutter, then wakes Silverman up so Paige can pin for the three count and the win. As the triads celebrate and the crowd actually does finally give some applause that I think is for the competitors, Tony talks up just how hard it was for Benoit and Saturn having to fight three men, and praises the two as two of the greatest for their efforts even in defeat. Thoughts on this one?
01:36:03
Speaker
Thankfully, by comparison, it even is on its own. I think this is a really strong match. I'd not say there's not issues with it, but I think they feel with such a diversity of action and moves. It definitely gets a bit busy at the end when five people have to be going in and out of the ring and yet that rough bumps and powder and the trash can, all these things moving parts. But thing for me is that they booked this match as going around 30 minutes. Was that 25 minutes or so? I think it says I think it's about 23.
01:36:31
Speaker
Okay, so they book it as a longer match going around to say 23 minutes. But it's not. I've had this before where they when you book it, you know, match is going to book long and you work it like you're gonna have to work that long. Because there's five people, they're able to pace it more. Yes.
01:36:47
Speaker
There are definitely some wrestles here, given the length is still understandable. And as you've noticed, probably part should do with the wait for the crowd. Yeah, I think it's a lot less to do with them needing a break and more with them saying, can we let the crowd work this out of its system and actually pay attention to us? Yeah, I definitely have issue with the crowd here.
01:37:06
Speaker
To be fair to them, putting something in their shoes though, because they basically had to sit and watch a screen and they had to watch that hardcore match we just watched. And if they were doing this in front of the junkyard invitational, it might be more forgiving. I just mean, I think that does not help a crowd when they sit and watch the screen for 15 plus minutes. It should wake them up with D.P. and Ken and them coming out and eventually does. But yeah, I'm just saying there's certain circumstances I understand why.
01:37:33
Speaker
Let me put it this way, because you and I have had this discussion on modern wrestling shows as well, where I get really ticked off at the crowd sometimes on modern wrestling shows because they do the, we are awesome, and all this kind of crap. Yeah, and frequent enough with battle. Here's my problem with what they're doing. It's less that they're not paying attention and more that they are engaging in behavior that are actively disruptive to anyone who is actually trying to pay attention. That's fair.
01:37:55
Speaker
They're chucking the beach ball around, they're chanting at random people, they're getting annoyed at security for doing what they're supposed to do to keep the show moving. If you are not enjoying the show that you've come to see, there are things that you can do. Number one, walk out. If you want to send a strong message to the company that you are not enjoying the show that they have put on, them seeing a heck of a lot of empty chairs all of a sudden is a darn good message.
01:38:24
Speaker
But don't start doing things that disrupt the people that are actually enjoying the show. Yeah, no, I agree. And I'm not just talking about myself. I'm talking about people like in the arena, sitting next to you, trying to pay attention to the action going on in the ring. And you're sitting there chanting out of security guard for taking away a beach ball. That sort of thing is just amazing in this match. Oh, great. Yeah, it's not good. It's not just the fact that I think that this match is actually quite good and I'm annoyed at them on behalf of the wrestlers in the match. But it's very poor behavior. Yeah, of course.
01:38:55
Speaker
Rant over, sorry. The thing that's interesting of the match is because of the length, you get a prolonged section early on where Saturn and Benoit kind of work the heel side of a tag team match. They isolate Canyon and like they work a limb. Yes. It's not bad, but it just feels weird at the face of doing that. And then you see the heel do it and you're like, oh, hmm. Yeah, there's there's some interesting booking decisions in this one, definitely. Yeah.
01:39:22
Speaker
We've done more discussions before. That's a tricky thing when booking, especially longer tag matches. How long do you keep faces in control? How long do you keep heals in control? You go back to the two different outsiders matches from Road Wild and Hog Wild. Yeah. The second one, the one with the Stiners. For me, they definitely draw out a little long. Yeah, that's the Scott Stiner apparel bit. In contrast to the Luger and Sting one, where I think that's definitely better done.
01:39:48
Speaker
I think they do a good job here as a whole. I like that even other than when they wrestled to sort of wait for crowd issues to wear down, there's always something new happening. In contrast, that very first match where the cat runs out of moves and it starts kicking again and again and again, more kicks. Everyone involved has a fairly varied amount of offense. It was nice. I'd say it's definitely a good showcase for Saturn as well. It gets a longer moment to shine here as well, which I liked. Yeah, definitely.
01:40:17
Speaker
I mean, the finish is, it's WCW and it's $9.99. I expect 8 million things to happen at the end. In fact, there's two ref bumps, it's a little absurd. One is the part where the ref, they ask the ref to check the time so they can be distracted. Really ref? Were you born yesterday? They have fun with the tag format, but they definitely draw it out a little bit too long, I think. Bad crowd aside.
01:40:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a really, really great match in here. You can definitely see that in the amazingly intense opening minutes and the similarly intense and complex closing minutes and the Christmas and precision of the moves as well as the well plotted tag work. It just suffers for two things. Firstly, it's about 23 minutes long and it just feels a little too long. Yeah.
01:41:04
Speaker
It loses momentum, not because the action ever really slows down, but just because it keeps going and going. You keep getting swells in the emotion and energy of the match, but they don't actually resolve. Yeah. Because there's still 10 or 15 minutes left. So they kind of peter out and it gets a little harder to stay fully invested as the match goes on. It does maintain itself a lot better than other matches might, because as you noted, there's three men on on the triad side rather than two. So they can change up the action quite frequently. Yeah. But it still just feels like it drags a bit in the middle.
01:41:34
Speaker
that probably contributes to and is exacerbated by problem number two, the crowd. They just kind of decide to do everything but pay attention to the match for a large portion of it, dragging down the atmosphere of what must be said is a good energetic fight even if it is a bit overlong. The wrestlers repeatedly clearly just pause to let the crowd get something out of their system, but by the end of the match they're just going ahead regardless of whether folks are watching, which is probably the right call.
01:41:59
Speaker
This was still a fun and good match. Just with little editing, it could have been great. Yeah, it's a four binder match that should have been three. Yeah, I think it speaks to an overall time admission with the show, because like they book a three minute match with Van Hammer and Rick Steiner. Not that he won a 10 minute match, obviously, but somewhere between three and 10 maybe would be good. Again, the David Flair one is about the same. Also, yeah.
01:42:24
Speaker
They seem to run their promo content and video content longer. I think I hit this set deadline. I said time and that shows me this long or it's not official show, I guess. So then they get to this match like, well, how much time left the whole show? Okay. So I got to work on their five minute.
01:42:39
Speaker
Yeah, it feels like they put a lot on this match. We're doing a bunch of of short stuff because we're not sure about being able to give a longer match to the folks involved for reasons of experience or plot or, you know, what have you. Yeah. So you guys need to work quite a lengthy tag match. Yeah. Because there's only so much that we can do with stretching the video package out until people just get tired and walk away. Yeah. Right. It is still a good match. Oh, yeah. It's just.
01:43:07
Speaker
you can definitely tell that it's a little longer than it should be.
01:43:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's hard to put into words how it feels long because it's not the usual thing. Like you said that it feels like they had a timer and they they booked for the time. It feels like all the action is legitimate. It just feels like they put in these these these upsurges that would normally lead to a resolution and they don't. Yeah. And to a point, that's good because it plays with your expectations. But after a few of those happen, you're like, OK, you you guys just aren't doing an ending. Yeah, yeah.
01:43:39
Speaker
Fortunately, right about the time where I think I was actually commenting to you. Oh, this one feels quite long is when they actually do start to move to the ending. So it's not over by a lot. No, no. A little little touch of let's let's pull it back a little. Yeah.
01:43:55
Speaker
So at the next show, Road Wild, Ben Wao at this point is now the U.S. champion. Thankfully, I've taken off a David Flair will be challenged for his title by DDP, which was definitely a high point of that show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. By a mile. I remember being so glad that match existed. Yeah. As far as the tag titles go, they will remain on the waste of Canyon and Bigelow, who in that show work a straight two on two match because DP is obviously busy.
01:44:23
Speaker
or they would be downed by Harlem Heat for the titles.
01:45:10
Speaker
They could have cut that.
01:45:17
Speaker
Then WSW just abruptly cuts the video package again mid sentence as Michael Buffer is in the ring. It's less surprising to see Buffer doing the intros for two matches on this show since one of them is a boxing match after all. Yeah. So our seventh match is Buff Bagwell versus Rowdy Roddy Piper with Ric Flair in a boxing match. Referee for this one is Judge Mills Lane.
01:45:40
Speaker
1999 was the year of face above Bagwell. Heaven help us. Betrayed by Bolsteiner brothers, he'd become a face to challenge the rule of Flair and Piper, who at one point were feeding with each other over the presidency. But then when Bagwell interfered and actually cost Piper the presidency, Piper turned heel on Bagwell and joined with Flair because logic.
01:46:04
Speaker
The challenge for the boxing match would come via Piper. The idea being in kayfabe that he has actual boxing experience, albeit not as a pro, but as an amateur. And of course he had a boxing match, not a good boxing match, but a boxing match at WrestleMania 2. So any chance we can reference WWEF slash WWE material in this company, the better.
01:46:26
Speaker
Mm hmm. But that will also has amateur boxing experience. That's true. The thing that slightly destroys kayfabe is the timing of how they did the announcements. Flair and Piper in the ring and they announce we're going to this boxing match because Piper is, you know, they'll say undefeated or some nonsense. He's obviously lost via disqualification. That's made to the boxing match.
01:46:46
Speaker
He actually does a wrestling move in that match, Body Slam, and gets DQ'd for it because it's a wrestling move and it's a boxing match. Yeah. So it makes sense. Absolutely. You can't have those in boxing matches. Yes. So immediately after making this announcement, JJ Dillon comes down and says, well, if you have a boxing match, I have the perfect guy for it and sends out Mills Lane. Who just happens to be there? Yeah. Well, you know, Mills Lane, he often visits every night for a show in case they need him.
01:47:13
Speaker
He's been campaigning to be a WSW referee for the entire time, but Nick Patrick's been holding him back. Yeah. Dare we get a Mills Lane, Nick Patrick match on pay-per-view? As his show has shown, they will book worse things. I was going to say, genuinely, do you just almost have a morbid curiosity of how that would have gone? I do, yeah. Yeah. You didn't mention Mills Lane's greatest credential. He is also the referee from Celebrity Deathmatch on MTV. Yes.
01:47:43
Speaker
Honestly, people, my generation, especially people that didn't follow boxing. That's what I think of us as the story that match guy. And I've done insult. Actually, I was a really popular show. Yeah. Yeah. And he was he was a good part of it. His kiss or gravelly. Let's get down. Yeah. His gravelly voice and his demeanor really worked for as silly as that show got with the clay nation. Everything lastly, as highlighted by the video package, but I will pin Rick Flair. Yeah, no big deal thing that happens.
01:48:14
Speaker
Buffer does our introductions, informing the crowd that this match will be like no other. I mean, no other on a wrestling show, maybe. Yeah.
Boxing Match: Buff Bagwell vs Roddy Piper
01:48:23
Speaker
Only one man can possibly referee it, apparently. Judge Mills Lane. Little-known fact, there are no other boxing referees. Lane does every match just in a variety of masks. I wondered that. I thought they all sounded similar. Lane enters to what I assume was the theme for his TV show, dressed in his judge robes and gets big cheers.
01:48:43
Speaker
Tony goes over Lane's history, noting that before he was a judge and boxing referee, he was a boxer himself. Hienan adds that when he was four years old, he was a kid. Yeah. Dead silence. I assume because Tony has muted his microphone to cover bursting out laughing. Yeah, probably. You legitimately do not hear him speak again until Roddy Piper has entirely finished his entrance alongside Ric Flair. Not a whisper from him and Hienan is still talking. Oh yeah, yeah.
01:49:08
Speaker
Bagwell is out next. He has a boxing robe made for the match, featuring his own image, and one and two painted on his gloves. There's a good pun sign in the crowd. Buffy the Vampiper Slayer. Ah, yeah. I'll take it. Buffer introduces him as ready to show the world another facet of his combat readiness. Should go talk to former airborne ranger Perry Saturn Buff. Yeah, right?
01:49:35
Speaker
It was, by the way, hard to stop myself from writing the wrong name in a sequence involving Buff Bagwell and Michael Buff her. Yeah. This match is just too buff. It occurs to me that this is probably the first and only time Bagwell had his match introduced by Buffer. Yeah, probably. Buff gets a microphone and says, Roddy and Flair double team and triple team whenever they can. Apparently one has mastered ninja duplication. Yeah.
01:50:01
Speaker
He calls out his corner person, Judge Judy Bagwell. OK, I get the Judge Judy reference, which I'm sure Lane loved Judge Judy being a competing show to his own. But Flair is Piper's corner man, not Lane. Yeah. So shouldn't it be like Nature Girl Judy Bagwell? Oh, yeah. Former tag champion. Judy comes out wearing a T-shirt with some absolutely awful art of her and Buff. He is drawn like Perry Saturn with hair.
01:50:32
Speaker
Yeah. And she is drawn like the leprechaun from that horror series. Yeah, yeah, I see that. She's even drawn wearing Buff's top hat, which only strengthens the comparison. Yeah. She trips at the end of the entrance ramp, but thankfully catches herself. Heenan jokes that she forgot to tie her shoes. Flair gets a microphone and tells Bagwell that no one will think any less of him for quitting now. He can go back and apologize and it'll all be accepted. Buff tells him to rewind the tape three weeks ago to where he took the blockbuster and wooze.
01:51:02
Speaker
Referee Mills Lane will now give the instructions. All right, get over here, come on. All right, good luck. Hey, hey, hey. All right, and we're going through all the crap and all the instructions. I expect a tough, clean fight. Protect yourself at all times. Any questions here? Here, let's get it on! Let's get it on.
01:51:29
Speaker
You want to give Judge Mills lane? Let's get on. Yeah, that's pretty good too. Buffs bothered to get a boxing outfit while Piper is just in his normal wrestling gear with boxing gloves. Kind of looks weird. It does, yeah. Round one. Piper lands rapid punches and taunts Bagwell, but gets slugged in the chin. They trade blows and Piper knocks Bagwell down with a right hook for zero. Don't know why he didn't count there, but Lane, I'm sure, knows more about boxing refereeing than I do. Yeah.
01:51:58
Speaker
Bagwell lands solid hits, but as the round ends, Piper sneaks in a headbutt. Lane sends them to their corners. Toni notes Flair spraying something on Piper's gloves.
01:52:15
Speaker
Round two, Piper hits Buff in the face and Buff's eyes get irritated by whatever's on Piper's gloves. Tony theorizes is red hot, which he says wrestlers use all the time backstage, which seems like an unsafe working environment. I think the idea is it heats up like that people are limber is the idea of that. Oh, is that. Oh, I thought he meant like red hot like the hot sauce. No, no, no. OK. It's like I see how the thing that. Oh, OK. Gotcha.
01:52:42
Speaker
It creates circulation, yeah. Gotcha. Flair wipes the gloves clean to hide the cheating. Judy tries to clear Buff's eyes with her sponge, but Piper easily beats him up and floors him with a right hook for three. Buff manages to reverse Piper into a corner and land rapid punches to knock him down for six. Piper lands punches as the round ends. Lane, oddly, slaps Buff's butt to get him to move to his corner.
01:53:08
Speaker
He's just a big fan, I guess. Lane checks on Buff's eyes and goes over to check on Flair. Flair argues with the crowd. Round three. Piper attacks before the bell, so Judy bites his ear for the obligatory bite-fight reference, then slaps a bucket on his head. Buff lands a right hook on bucket-headed Piper, decks an entering Flair, and hits Piper with famous boxing finishing move, the Buff Blockbuster, and pins him? Yeah. For the three count and the win?
01:53:39
Speaker
That's the right tone for that, yes. Judy stops Flair from entering. Presumably he was trying to remind Judge Mills Lane that this is a boxing match and pinfalls are not a thing. Judy chases legendary multi-time world champion Rick Flair around the ring and splashes water from a bucket at him.
01:53:58
Speaker
Hienan notes Piper was cheated. So what? says face announcer Toni Schiavone, pointing out that cheating basically happens all the time in wrestling. Toni ironically says this was just as you can trust from Judge Mills Lane. Thoughts on this? Honestly, it's funny. So I went to this show remembering the one terrible match we've talked about at length, and I remember thinking this was not good either. I will say I kind of enjoyed it to a point.
01:54:24
Speaker
First round really shows you that, you know, none of them are really blocking or actually doing evasive defense like you do with an actual boxing. Piper is clearly the more experienced boxer. So, you know, youth is on buff side by quite a bit at this point. He's not as strong because he's just not hitting as quickly and as, as often as Piper is.
01:54:45
Speaker
So then they introduced the whole thing with the matching with his eyes, with the spray. Now you work sympathy for Buff, so either you think he would be the stronger person because he's younger or more youthful and more fit. Now you've turned that around. And then they pretty much just crapped the bed. Yeah. You get the biting, you get the bucket. I also love a lot of, hey, so put a bucket on a guy's head, hit him with the boxing glove on your hand. That would hurt even less than being punched with the boxing glove, no?
01:55:15
Speaker
I mean, yes, but that is something that's done in a lot of films, so I'll give them a pass on that bit. I have definitely seen that idea before in comedies. No, I know, I know. But they're going for like, look how legit this combat is with this boxing. Yeah, the third round, as you said, completely craps the bed. Yeah, they go full cartoon. To a point, you could be a good buyer that if they did a prolonged rep distraction,
01:55:38
Speaker
But then, of course, you have Buff go the second blockbuster. Wearing boxing gloves makes the movie hard to do. Yeah. You can't grip or anything. And then mostly season go for a pin kind of shrugs inwardly and count to three. The boxing referee counts a wrestling pinfall. He does. Yeah. What is this company? Yeah.
01:56:05
Speaker
Again, I could appreciate as a general thing. They kept the round nice and short. There were two minute rounds. They tell these stories. Just the last part. This is so dumb and so bad. Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. So if they found a way to do this, where it's buff bagel versus brick flare in a boxing match and to really fact out against him, you make the referee, Marty Piper, arguing that the only one that could call a boxing guy between two wrestlers is the guy has done both. Yeah.
01:56:34
Speaker
That works in Storyline. And so, and then he gives you a sort of pinfall of the other issues involved, but it's different than having, going your way to hire an actual boxing ref. And then I'm kind of pinfall. Yes. Yeah. It is so, so bizarre. I don't think it exists, but I really hope this footage where they're talking about like laying out to that two mils lane, like, yeah, then buff doesn't move and you have to pin. It's like, what? You know that, you know, that's not a thing, right? Yeah.
01:57:02
Speaker
I think I'm in general agreement. I thought the actual boxing was okay. They kept punches flowing pretty well. They had an interesting little subplot with the substance on the gloves. It didn't make famous boxing ref Judge Mills Lane look very good with blatant cheating that happens on his watch, but okay with it, so fine. I thought both of them did a good job of making their punches look pretty good.
01:57:23
Speaker
You can tell that Bagwell has actual boxing experience. It is apparently debatable whether Piper actually does or not. Yeah. But at the very least, he's done this type of match before. Yeah. They both have an idea of how a boxing match should go. Yeah. At least in a cinematic sense. Yeah.
01:57:40
Speaker
It is plotted backwards though. Which we've said multiple times tonight. Buff really should dominate round one because Piper is going to then cheat in round two and that will make it more of a turning point. But Piper has quite a strong round one as well. You kind of question why he needs to cheat in round two. The real problem of course is the ending.
01:58:04
Speaker
Not only is there blatant and ridiculous cheating from Judy Bagwell in the beginning of the third round, the match ends with a buff blockbuster and a three count, which is not how boxing matches end. At WrestleMania 2, Piper lost a boxing match by doing a wrestling move. Here, buff one by doing one. How did this manage to make less sense than the WrestleMania 2 match? It's amazing, isn't it?
01:58:27
Speaker
I would even maybe have accepted Lane not seeing the blockbuster and just counting Piper down for 10, assuming that he'd been punched. But the pin was absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe that they booked that and all of them went, yeah, that seems fine and logical.
01:58:46
Speaker
What's amazing, too, if you look at his like his whole career, Piper was very good, whether you get there or not, of some situations where he's not pinned a lot in wrestling matches. When he showed up to fight Hogan 96, he's the only guy I've never beaten. That's of course a lie, because Piper has lost a bunch of matches via count out as qualification. Right. But what he means is you've never actually pinned. Yeah. And that's why that's OK. Yeah.
01:59:14
Speaker
So I was reading some stats when I said, they said that it is WWF career, at least before this, obviously you came back later. Piper's only pinned three times on camera. So half show matches don't count. And two of those were matches that they only released on VHS on through the Colosseum video stuff. So the only match he actually loses via pinfall on camera in WWF officially is WrestleMania eight him and Bret Hart. Gotcha.
01:59:40
Speaker
Then you bring him WCW, and again, they book him fairly well, like the one where that pinned him is Hogan in that second match. They kind of dropped it a little bit, like he's pinned by Scott Hall earlier in 99, but it's just crazy to think of the smallest people that got to pin Piper in matches. Even this weird boxing match that ended via pinfall. Here's Buff Bagwell. And it's weirder that.
02:00:02
Speaker
he has a pinfall in a situation where he definitely should not have a pinfall. No. Yeah. Like if you're a guy who's famously defensive of being pinned in in his career, then why would you allow a pin in a match where pinfalls are not a thing? Yeah. It's so strange. Again, just have him knocked out by the blockbuster and then counted out for a normal boxing 10 count. I'm cool with it. Sure. But the the pinfall is astonishingly bizarre.
02:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's a bizarre little cherry on top of whatever the hell this match is. Yeah. It's kind of a shame because the first two rounds actually are pretty nice. Like they've done a lot better with the boxing than I thought they were going to.
02:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's a point of greatness scale as well. Like if you're a legit boxing fan, you watch the box, you're like, oh, they're not blocking and they're not. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is definitely cinematic boxing, not real. Yeah. And this is like wrestling boxing. Yeah. As where as that statement is. But yeah, it's bizarre that they could go in really well and then that. Yeah.
02:01:01
Speaker
So on the very next Nitro, Ernest Miller is bragging about how great he is after he beat Disco Inferno, which would bring out Buff Bagwell to set up the match that we all know and did not love on Road Wild. Oh, man. Again, he's pinned Ric Flair and Roddy Piper in the last month. He's like, now what a fight, Ernest Miller. Go for the top. Yeah, exactly. Nowhere to go but up from Piper. Sorry. Maybe he got confused and thought that he was in a karate championship.
02:01:32
Speaker
Oh, okay. As far as Piper himself, he would be off TV a bit after this, understandably, after losing via pinfall in a boxing match. They will bring it back a few months later, where they would make the whole story that his contract is controlled by the powers that be. Setting up is interesting, I guess the word for it, contribution to the Starrcade99 main event.
02:01:53
Speaker
The only time that John was ever angry at Roddy Piper. Yes, I know. That's amazing. You ruined Piper for John. Have you did that? We cut to another video package, yet another video package. Yeah. Building up the main event, which features Savage demonstrating with the aid of Gorgeous George and Medusa how he would pin Kevin Nash. Nash challenging Sid, who says he will start with and end with Nash. Sure. All right. Yeah.
02:02:22
Speaker
Savage getting involved, Sting making the save, Piper and Flair setting up Savage and Sid versus Nash and Sting, Nash claiming Sting drove the Hummer, Flair asking Savage and Sid to work with him to beat Nash in a match Nash has versus David Flair, Nash saying if he wins he gets Tori Wilson for 72 hours, which is not okay.
02:02:40
Speaker
and Nash stealing a taser from David Flair and using it on everybody, then taking Gorgeous George and Tori Wilson via her walking along. But we see probably not actually Sting sitting in a Hummer, but then we cut to definitely not actually Sting beating up Nash during another match. Looks like Dale Torborg, the demon in the Sting get up, I guess.
02:03:00
Speaker
That was an overly long video package. But thank goodness it was the only long, boring video package tonight. Oh, wait, it wasn't. Oh, one more detail at that, by the way. The initial Hummer angle began to the white Hummer attacking Kevin Nash. The Hummer that fake sting is sitting in the what they see in the window. Yeah. A black Hummer. Yes.
02:03:22
Speaker
At least this video package did not unceremoniously cut off. They managed that at least. Somewhat justifiably not included, by the way. The infamous bit with Savage apparently legitimately slapping Tori Wilson when she accidentally got the giggles during an intense confrontation from the July 5th, 1999 Nitro. Somewhat surprisingly, that's still on the Peacock version of Nitro, by the way. Yeah, it is. Two hours, seven minutes, 42 seconds in. Just kind of thought that they would have cut that after some of the other things they've cut or edited.
02:03:52
Speaker
I'm not campaigning one way or the other for cuts on old shows, but it just is odd given some of the other things they've edited on WCW shows that that one is still in there. Yeah.
02:04:03
Speaker
So our final match is the Macho Man, Randy Savage, and the Millennium Man, Sid Vicious, with Gorgeous George, Miss Madness, and Medusa, versus Big Sexy, Kevin Nash, and I Don't Need a Nickname, I'm Sting, in a tag match for Nash's WSW World Heavyweight Championship. Referee for this one is Nick The Mustache Patrick. Um, isn't it the icon, Sting?
02:04:26
Speaker
Yeah, probably. I don't think he ever actually calls himself. No, he does the thing. Everyone does that. Tony does it. Yeah, everyone else calls him the icon or the franchise. That's true. I don't think Sting ever calls himself anything but Sting. No, it's true.
02:04:39
Speaker
While champion Kevin Nash is targeted by the duo of Randy Savage and Sid Vicious, known as Team Madness, or Team Savage, they can't make up the mind. Personally, Team Madness sounds better. Yeah. Because it connects to his valets that are already Team Madness, so just making Team Madness bigger, quite literally with Sid Vicious in this case. Softball player, Sid Vicious. Yes.
02:05:00
Speaker
This would be one of those stories where all the Heagles are working together because I guess those are all Heals. They would try to help David Flair have it help us be world champion in a bizarre setup, which will lead to the taser again, kidnapping whole thing.
02:05:15
Speaker
And yes, this is the origin of the send for the man clip, which is Randy Savage run back in slapping Tori Wilson when he's supposed to be scared because he's yelling at Gorgeous George. She has the giggles and he just smacks the crap out of it. Just and not OK. Not OK. No. Yeah. But it's notable clip because it's so prevalent. Yeah. It was used in. But it's used in botchomania to represent other cases where someone has an inappropriate emotion during a during a scene. It's more like the running up and yelling at everything, not the slap. Yeah. Yeah.
02:05:46
Speaker
You know, again, that's that's not a no, no. This is not the only time they would involve the kidnapping of Gorgeous George in an angle, which is a thing. But yeah, let's just get to the tag match where somehow someone could pin their not legal partner while also legal or vice versa. Michael Buffer does the introductions again and claims this is the first time a world champ has put his title on the line and a tag match. It's not the last, sadly. No.
02:06:16
Speaker
But for again, notes that Nash's partner, Sting, could win the title off of him. How? How? Please draw me a graph. I would love it. Screw it. Let's get ready to rumble. Savage and Sid enter to Macho's horrid 1999 theme with Medusa, Miss Madness, and Gorgeous George. Sting enters next, then Nash enters separately, so... And a Bua Wolfpack theme count? One.
02:06:43
Speaker
No, it's interesting, though, is their themes are separate, but the video played on the walls is a mix of the two of them. Oh, interesting. So they just kind of did one video, but separate themes. Yeah. It's not like highlights them as a team or anything. It's just like here's Stig in the bottom left and Nash the top right and it sort of moves around. OK. There's a sign in the crowd reading Nash Sting beat the maidness. Mm hmm. They switched the E and the N. Spell check your signs, folks. Yeah, right.
02:07:13
Speaker
Gorgeous George removes some sunglasses that she'd been wearing, revealing a shiner. I'm sure that an abusive relationship angle will be handled with the seriousness it deserves by WCW. Of course. Sting and Savage start, but Savage notices Gorgeous George going to stand behind Nash and goes to retrieve her. Nash gets in the way and Sting beats Savage up, then Sid, including kicking him up into the turnbuckle in defiance of all known laws of physics.
02:07:40
Speaker
Sid finally stuns him with kind of a clothesline punch, and Sid and Savage trade off wearing Sting down, distracting the rift to cheat with occasional sneaky help from Miss Madness and Medusa, including a kidney punch from Medusa that hits so lightly, Sting doesn't even notice a cell. Yeah, yeah. Sting eventually blocks a Savage punch and fires back, dropkicks him, and tags Nash. Nash decimates Savage and Sid, and emphatically tags Sting, which Tony says shows trust.
02:08:08
Speaker
Sting almost immediately sets up the stinger splash against the barricade that people nearly always dodge, and shockingly, Savage dodges. So Sting eats barricade. Maybe shouldn't have shown as much trust, Nash. Yeah, yeah. Back to Sid, Savage, Miss Madness, and Medusa, teaming up to beat Sting up. Something comes spinning into the ring like a frisbee, but it's rectangular. I never got a good look at what it actually was. Yeah, I didn't notice either.
02:08:33
Speaker
Sid puts on a rear chin lock and Patrick checks Sting. Sting's arm stays up on the third try, which is good for Sid, since if he beat Sting, he wouldn't win the title, correct? Yes, I think. Yeah, why would you try to beat Sting, Sid? Sting elbows free, but he and Sid collide, so Sting can dazedly fall and headbutt Sid in the crotch in Sting's favorite 1990 spot. Sting makes the tag! Nash runs wild on Savage and Sid and sets for the jackknife on Sid, but Savage breaks it up.
02:09:02
Speaker
Everybody into Brawl, including Medusa and Miss Madness, so Sting does a double noggin' knocker on them, which shocks Patrick. It gives a really big reaction to it. Woah! Stinger splashes on Sid, Medusa, Miss Madness, who had clearly forgotten her spot and had to be directed to the corner by Savage, and finally Savage and Nash, as Savage was punching Nash in the corner. Sid chokeslams Sting to put a stop to the Stinger splashes, but Nash knocks Sid out of the ring.
02:09:29
Speaker
Nash sets for the Jackknife Power Bomb on Savage, but Gorgeous George sneaks in and punches Nash in the crotch. Twice. Yeah. She either misses the first time or hit too lightly for him to notice the first time. Yeah, I noticed that as well. It's very funny. Yeah. She does the really big exaggerated one too, so you cannot possibly miss that she's doing it unless you're the person that she's doing it on and she doesn't make any kind of contact. Sid slams Nash and Savage goes up top for the big elbow for the three count and the win.
02:09:58
Speaker
Generous of Sid there since that won Savage the World title. Savage celebrates with the belt, but lets Sid hold it so Savage can lift George on his shoulders and Sid gives her the belt to hold. Thoughts on this one? It doesn't suck, which is a good thing. Because we've had, let's say, some badminton events recently. Yeah, especially last year. Uh-huh, yeah. So that's a positive.
02:10:21
Speaker
I think my idea of this match is unfortunately when it takes place. If somehow circumstances align and we have this exact same match, even if it has the silly tag team match with the world title line thing, if this is 1997, it's that version of Brandi Savage and that Kevin Nash.
02:10:38
Speaker
I think this would be really, really good. Yes. But unfortunately, as we cover Ray Savage's knees were just a shot to hell, unfortunately. He worked really, really hard doing all those dives for like 10, 15 years. And he had them fixed twice, especially after that one Hogan match, or as soon as the Sting match, and then also Hogan match. So he just could not do what he could do before as a cover. And it's not a knock on him. It's just a fact. It's fortunate his body was just wearing down and that's just something that happens to you.
02:11:07
Speaker
connection thing is that it didn't really work as much in 99 as he did 97. So for it is going back to 1996 bachelor's speech. Nash is clearly trying to oppress you know, like we said, that match is designed to show why him and Scott Hall got all the big money. And like that is big contract and they got the favorite nation clause and all that.
02:11:26
Speaker
he's really trying to form here. 99, it's not to say that he can't work, it's just he just chose not to work, though. Yeah, there are exceptions. Like I remember the DDP versus Nash match from I think it's Slambere 99 being quite good. But yeah, there's a definite difference in his ring style in 99, I think.
02:11:45
Speaker
Well, and for better or for worse, he realized that I'm getting paid, let's say a million and a half dollars. It might've been two even at this point. Whether I work 20 minute house show matches and work prolonged matches on pay-per-view, or if I just don't, I'm not paid extra for working harder. So I can't necessarily judge you for that. He does the company that allowed that to happen and didn't adjust for that.
02:12:08
Speaker
It's almost more an indictment of WSW for somehow letting that happen. Yeah, it's a very lax mindset. What's telling about this match for me, I went back and watched it, is that the only one to really do wrestling moves in the match is Sid Vicious. Mind you, they're not complex wrestling holds.
02:12:27
Speaker
But everyone else is punch, punch, punch, running clothesline, elbow, sting or splash is still a strike. Yeah, kick. Nash does have a sidewalk slam, but Nash has roughly four or five moves in the entire match. So it just weird and match with Sting and Ray Savage, no less. He doesn't do it like Tony does the elbow drop at the end. He doesn't do anything other than punch and kick and clothesline. He does those well, but it's just it's weird that that's just not what does anymore, I guess.
02:12:54
Speaker
So the whole thing is a buildup. So they try to trick him not trusting Sting. He's still interesting, even after the blatantly obvious fake stings there. And you see the real thing at the same time. Give this match is a trust him until halfway through. Like, really? You know, he didn't betray you. That's just so bizarre. It's fascinating, by the way, that Kevin Nash believes in a fake sting. Yeah.
02:13:19
Speaker
Kevin Nash, who was fake Sting himself at least once. At least, yeah. Friend with the fake Sting is Scott Hall, and also at least once. Yeah. Working in the Anyboo hired a fake Sting. Yeah. More than almost anyone else on this show.
02:13:35
Speaker
You, Kevin Nash, should know that there is a large possibility that if a sting shows up and does something that seems out of character for sting, yeah, it's probably not staying. Yeah, the free of the first guy to do CD of a fake sting betrayal is the end of you. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Arguably him. And yeah. Yeah, that's that's that makes this doubly strange. Yeah. But then they set up the gorgeous Georgia Trail and her execution is that as you said, it is not great. Yeah. Yeah.
02:14:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's disappointing as a whole for the match, but it's not really terrible. I just was hoping for more with everyone involved, but it is what it is.
02:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, action-wise, I thought this was acceptable. It's pretty much bog standard tag match with these four, perform capably. Sting plays face in peril as well as it usually does, and everybody gets their moments to shine. The problem, though, is how standard
Sting Pins Nash: Confusing Storylines
02:14:27
Speaker
this is. Yeah. The story here is that Savage and Sid, and somehow impossibly Sting, have the chance to win the world title if they pin Nash. Right? Yeah. I'm not missing something there, right? No, no. Okay.
02:14:39
Speaker
How much does that affect the storytelling? Not at all. No, none. Savage and Sid seem perfectly happy to beat Sting rather than Nash. And there doesn't seem to be any disagreement or tension about which of them gets to pin Nash like you'd expect with the world title on the line. So it just sets up for Savage's finisher. I think that you're trying to play the story that Sid really is just like a henchman. Yeah, but it is just like you'd expect some small level of tension there and there's just none. Yeah, like a tease or future storylines. Yeah.
02:15:09
Speaker
Sting and Nash, for their part, ignore the nonsensical idea of Sting somehow also being able to win the title off of Nash and just act like a normal tag team. It's probably the right choice, but it makes all the buildup around that point tonight, of which there was a lot entirely pointless. So it's a decent match, but it needed to be something more for the story to be worth anything.
02:15:31
Speaker
Really, they just needed to make the story as a tag team match. Nash is so upset with everyone involved because he believes fake Sting that he put the title in line for his team. So if Sting is pinned, then you can bend Sting to win the world title. Yeah, yeah. That would be fine. It's still a little silly. I don't trust you, but I'll let you be in charge of being a World Champion or not. But it's less dumb than you can also pin me somehow won the match.
02:15:57
Speaker
That's the thing. Like you can definitely do a distrust among the tag team angle without adding that extra gob of crazy. What he didn't even disappoint halfway through. He didn't says, you know, actually when Nash tags in finally and actually works the match, says, you know, if I were him, I wouldn't, I'd never tag him. That'd be a sting all day. Yeah. Which is a good point. Yeah. Yeah. If you're, if you only lose your title, if you are the one that gets pinned, why would you tag in? Yeah.
02:16:21
Speaker
that works if you're saying he deeply respects Sting or likes him as a friend and therefore doesn't want to just see him get the crap kicked out of him. Yeah, sure. Then that's a noble, I'm coming in to save my friend, even though it could be a risk to me. If things have been going well with Scott Hall, for instance, in his real life and in his career, to where he was the partner, that'd be an interesting angle.
02:16:44
Speaker
Yeah, they have a deep enough relationship that Nash could be like, wow, I can't let this keep happening to him. Yeah. You know, Hall tagged me and Hall and you could actually do something there where like Hall's like, no, no, no, no, I can let me let me do this. And they just keep beating Hall up to torture him. Right. If you want to put even a hint of mistrust, do a thing on like Nitro or Thunder where Savage goes, you know, would I win the world title off of Nash? I'll give you the first title shot.
02:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely ways you can do this admittedly strange way of defending a world title and have some interesting tension or an interesting storyline with it. Yeah. And have it work even with them only being able to win the title off of Nash. Yeah. But it's definitely easier with the other approach you propose as of just if that team loses, the title is. Yeah, the others. Yeah. The other simpler way would maybe if somehow things are reversed and Sting was actually world champion.
02:17:38
Speaker
and bustings the always gobble babyface. Yes. So Sting as a real champion goes, you don't trust me fine. I trust so much that I'll open my title line this tag match. So if you lose, I'll lose the title. You can see that being the Sting personality that would actually do that.
Hulk Hogan's Return and Title Impact
02:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. On the next Nitro, Randy Savage would put an open challenge, challenge anyone to defend my title against, except Big Sexy Kevin Nash. Well, he never calls Kevin Nash. He always says Big Sexy Kevin Nash.
02:18:07
Speaker
in the contract, you don't get big sexy, you can't say my name. I can see him having that close. So anyways, hey, challenge anyone except Kevin Nash or Tuttle Match. Suddenly who comes out but Hulk Hogan, who have been gone since Spring Stampede selling the injury in that prolonged format match. He tries to back out of the match, but of course that doesn't happen. And ultimately the July 13th nitro would end with Hulk Hogan winning the world title off of Randy Savage again. Yeah, always seems to happen.
02:18:36
Speaker
It's Spring Stampede 1998 all over again. I'd say this is the worst thing to have in the World Town 1999, but no. It will still be vacated two more times in 1999. Wow. Okay. Plus we had the finger poke of doom earlier this year as well. Uh-huh. Yeah. My goodness.
02:18:57
Speaker
So coming out of this match, we would have the singles match between Sting and Sid Vicious, the Millennium Man at Road Wild, which we are mostly split on though. We mostly also kind of agree on it. I think we both agree that it's, it's not like an awesome match, but yeah, I guess like how far down the ladder does it go? We've had worse debates over match quality than that one by a mile. Yeah.
02:19:18
Speaker
In contrast, we would get Kevin Nash would turn heel because of course he has to, to fight Hogan who in the midst of this run would also fully erase his Howard Hogan entity and become the true red and yellow Hulkster, which I think is also on that same CD.
02:19:36
Speaker
They play like the entire Nitro commentary? I think they do. I think they do on that one. Yeah. That CD is like 50% Nitro commentary, 40% songs that are tangentially connected to wrestling played in their entirety, and 10% entrance themes because you get like a few seconds of each one.
02:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. As for Randy Savage, his reward for putting up our Hulk Hogan yet again for the world title after winning it would be a match with Dennis Rodman. Yep. Oh, that was bad. Thankfully, but also, unfortunately, we've already covered that match. Yes. So that's not in our future. That, that was awful. Yeah. Oh.
Mixed Reviews of Bash at the Beach 1999
02:20:19
Speaker
Tony signs off, and Bash to the Beach 1999 is thankfully done. So overall thoughts on Bash to the Beach 1999? It's a real mixed bag of quality, unfortunately it tends to lean more towards the negative than the positive.
02:20:35
Speaker
There's matches that are okay to disappointing to whatever the junk gravitational match is. We've said plenty about how bad that one is. There's matches that just boggle the mind, like the boxing match and how it fully plays out.
02:20:50
Speaker
Ultimately, it's a very aggressive show in the way they promote everything, with like the loud music and just action instead of commentary explaining what's going on in stories. Everyone, like every heel is safe for like one, cuts a pre-match promo, which is weird. Yes. And then that face cut the pre-match promo instead that won the time. It's an odd time management show because they have a bunch of matches that run short.
02:21:15
Speaker
They were in these prolonged video packages and promos that don't really add anything or add too much. They just keep going. And then match that scene that goes stretched for time to fill that gap. So far, I think it's the worst bash of the beach in the series. Oh, undoubtedly. Yeah.
02:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, this was a very poor showing from WCW and a massive downgrade from the prior shows in this series. Obviously, the worst part is the Junkyard Invitational, which murders the show and stuffs its corpse into a car crusher. But even leaving that aside, this just is not good.
02:21:49
Speaker
The other matches, save for the Soldiers vs. the Rednecks and the Triad vs. Benoit and Saturn, range from just about acceptable to entirely unnecessary to just plain dumb. Plot holes abound, stipulations are abandoned or impossible in the first place, and a boxing match ends with a wrestling pinfall. I'm surprised Judge Mill's lanes didn't explode.
02:22:10
Speaker
There is good to be found here, but you have to wait through some real 1999 WCW crap to get to it. The promos and video packages largely hurt things. The promos mostly just take up time and add nothing in particular to the show. The best are probably Pages or Judge Lane's internet table segment, and the fact that I'm including a boxing ref among the better promos of the night says a lot. Yeah, that's true.
02:22:35
Speaker
The video packages were very long, which badly hurt the show's pacing, and generally could have told their story in a much shorter time with some editing. They were frequently cut off at random points too, which contributed to the show's sloppy feel.
02:22:49
Speaker
Commentary was better. Tony and Hienan do their usual good job playing off each other and being funny while still telling the stories of the matches. Their interactions are a bit repetitive at times on this show, like with Tony's occasional, why do you ask me stuff like that, retort? Yeah. But it's also sort of a running gag, it just doesn't always quite land right. Agreed. They're also dragged down by the storylines and matches that they have to support, but that's not their fault.
02:23:13
Speaker
There's only so much you can do to sell the junkyard invitational is great, or to build up that Nash's own partner could somehow be legally in at the same time and pin him for the title. No, I will not let that go. Or should you?
Technical Issues and Show Quality
02:23:24
Speaker
It definitely helps that Hienan does quite well at his favorite pastime, trying to get Tony to crack up on camera. Uh-huh, yeah.
02:23:31
Speaker
Production was highly variable Aside from the aforementioned video package difficulties cameras missed a number of notable moments in matches tonight And that's before we consider the junkyard invitational which was filmed outdoors at night with poor lighting and often from a helicopter Ensuring that it was difficult to even see the terrible spots and dull crawling or even tell who was in the match for that matter At least the beach set was again nice though It didn't get used in any matches this year probably because the hardcore match was in a junkyard
02:24:01
Speaker
Yeah, I Definitely do not recommend watching this one The couple good matches have their own pretty notable problems and the rest of the show is at best entirely missable and at worst well One of the worst matches I have yet witnessed. Mm-hmm This series is drowning and the Baywatch lifeguards are nowhere to be seen. Yeah, that's fair Match of the night and MVP then so L you're matching the night
02:24:27
Speaker
There's really only two matches I can tend to for a match the night for me. That's the elimination match and the three on two tag match. Agreed.
02:24:34
Speaker
There's a lot to enjoy, I think, as a whole package with the elimination match, because it's so quick. But lots of doesn't make sense. Like you talk about Chase just dragging up or when him and Conan's like, yeah, sure. Why not? I'll go to, I want to lose this match. Might as well. So in spite of its flaws, they go to fight against the crowd or just the time to stretch too long. Easy match the night is the triad versus Bedouin cider match. Easy.
02:24:59
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it was between the same two matches, the only two outright good, albeit still flawed matches on this mess. I will also go with the triad versus Benoit on Saturn. Well, I think the action and flow of the soldiers match is maybe actually a tad better. I struggled with the backwards booking and some strange eliminations. The triad match is a little too long, but it makes sense and has a particularly intense opening and ending.
MVP Choices and Highlights
02:25:22
Speaker
And the three versus two gimmick makes for some really good heal antics. Yeah, I'm going to go with that one. Okay. MVP.
02:25:29
Speaker
I would usually try to find someone else to highlight in the show, unless there's just someone that's amazingly stand out in the tag match. And to be fair, Ben One Sider will be really good. DDP is really good in this match. It'd be easy to give DDP, but I want to try and find someone else. For me, I'm going to VP a little differently. Gotta go, we're silver king.
02:25:50
Speaker
No, I mean, I think life and limb that match would be nice. But no, for me, it's the best part of the second best match of the night. That is Ray Mysterio in the mission match. That's entirely fair. He was definitely on the list for me as well. Yeah. Well, and he's part of every single pinfall elimination on his side. Yes. They literally could win the match without him. Yeah. He definitely adds a lot of excitement to that match. He's part of a number of really big spots. Yeah. And nails every one of them. So.
02:26:19
Speaker
Like I said before, they butchered his gimmick and his look, but he still wear Mysterio in that silly outfit and no mask. So he still missed you. Well, uh, I am taking what I believe you just identified as the easy way. Fair enough.
02:26:34
Speaker
I'm going to give this to Paige. Sure. I think all the guys in the Triad versus Benoit and Saturn match do their best in the face of a disinterested crowd. But Paige in particular really gave it as all trying to get the crowd back and he almost almost succeeded. Yeah.
02:26:50
Speaker
Besides that, he had some just excellent brawls, some great diving clotheslines. His diamond cutter spots were excellent. Yeah. And he was clearly having a good time playing a cocky and self-assured heel. I remember that from Road Wild 99 as well. That was a reason I really loved his performance there. He's just clearly having a ball. I will say runner up is Bambam Bigelow for being willing to do his moonsault for a deeply undeserving audience. Yeah. And he was really good in that as a whole as well. Yeah.
Outro and Teaser for Next Episode
02:27:20
Speaker
And that wraps up our review of Bash of the Beach 1999. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. A link will be available in the episode description. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Audible, iHeartRadio, Spotify, TuneIn, or Pandora.
02:27:46
Speaker
And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a rating or review, and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover us. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance in pay-per-view figures, and to Gina Trujillo for our logo. Next up, Bash of the Beach 2000. It ain't no picnic.
02:28:06
Speaker
Double negative, so that means it is a picnic. I'll bring sandwiches, Al, you bring the chips. Agreed, yeah. I assume Sting will bring the soda. This is around the time he had that amazing Sprite commercial. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Get some surge as well, yeah. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody. Happy wrestling.
02:28:36
Speaker
back in Saturn top rope splash and Benoit swan dive hell sweat head hellbutt. I think I've made that flood before and comforted that that would be a great move name. Yeah.