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Episode 75: Halloween Havoc 1993
2 Playsin 8 hours
We're back with more spooky goodness! WCW got a deal on a wheel so it's time to spin for real! No, I didn't accidentally reupload our previous episode - WCW really decided that spinning a big wheel should be the focus of not one, but two Halloween shows! This time, Vader and Cactus Jack face the wheel of fate. Plus - Tony outdoes the Phantom of the Schiavone outfit, WCW has another go at a Sid Vicious vs. Sting match - surely they can't screw up the ending again - Dustin Rhodes and Steve Austin unsurprisingly have a great match, and astonishingly, no unsuspecting faces get booed against a Freebird for once! For all this, plus possibly WCW's greatest ever show opening...let's go to the ring!
Music by Michael Gary Brewer at https://www.instantmusicnow.com/
Follow us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/LetsGo2theRing/
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Again, this great case of being starved for choices, which I love. Wait, no, sorry. Yeah. the Opposite. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
Introduction to 'Let's Go to the Ring' with a WCW Theme
00:00:34
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days and not so good old days of World Championship Wrestling, series by series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm here with Alec Pridgen and a large, ominous wheel.
00:00:50
Speaker
How's it going tonight, Al? ah Good. yeah Wheel's doing alright too, thanks for asking. Yeah, yeah i thought i thought it might be. You won't you want to give it a spin? Um, don't have the plug-in for it. The wrong adapter, so... Oh, oh, oh, okay. yeah um like ah Let's see. i Oh, think I left it over here.
00:01:07
Speaker
There it is. There it is. I'll just have the stagehand run out, and yep, he's got it plugged in now. All right. Spin the wheel, make the podcast. Spin the wheel, make the podcast.
Coal Mining Wheel Spin: A Humorous Detour
00:01:18
Speaker
And let's see It says...
00:01:22
Speaker
coal mining right so for the next couple hours and i are going to talk about the history of coal mining and some famous coal miners so al you start looking up famous miners and i'll start on the history and we'll try and you know cobble together a podcast somehow about this totally random subject and share what we find out i'm sure that's going to be an interesting show and better than anything we could have planned ahead of time right i'll be honest it's kind of what i'm really trying to take this show in the direction of anyway so kind of worked out I thought about that, you know, the the time you brought the canary in for that one episode.
00:01:50
Speaker
I thought that was a little weird. And then it all makes sense now. Yeah, it made through the episode to be done. All right. all right. now Nobody leave. We're just kidding.
Halloween Havoc 1993 Unveiled
00:01:59
Speaker
Tonight, we're taking a look at Halloween Havoc 1993. Spin the wheel, make the spin the wheel make the deal No, we didn't accidentally upload last month's episode again.
00:02:09
Speaker
WCW really thought the big wheel of matches went so well it was worth repeating. Can you imagine if this ran all the way until the company closed, Al? I mean, this is WCW, so I could easily imagine this, yes.
00:02:20
Speaker
I mean, presumably it would have closed by, like, 1996 then, but still. Yeah, I could just picture, like, Sting and Hogan spinning the wheel.
00:02:31
Speaker
Starcade 97, got a dead serious NWO angle and they come out and spin the giant wheel. Oh, it's the Prince of Darkness match. That's everyone really wanted to see after 18 months of buildup.
00:02:43
Speaker
Honestly, with how that ended up going, maybe that would have been better, but who knows.
Event Details and Attendance Figures
00:02:48
Speaker
Halloween Havoc 1993 was held on October 24th, 1993 at the Lakefront Arena in New Orleans, Louisiana, in front of 6,000 fans, 3,000 of which paid.
00:02:58
Speaker
three thousand which paid More formally known as the Senator Nat G. Kiefer University of New Orleans Lakefront Arena, which is a mouthful, the Lakefront Arena holds up to 8,933.
00:03:12
Speaker
While I think a wrestling show probably doesn't have all those seats available due to needing room for entrance and set, WSW definitely didn't fill the arena this time, despite them repeatedly calling it packed on the show.
00:03:24
Speaker
Halloween Havoc 1993 received 100,000 pay-per-view buys, 30,000 less than last year, but in the middle of the pack for 1993, in which several shows dipped below six digits.
Speculating the Big Wheel's Role in WCW
00:03:36
Speaker
It is not a good year for WCW. Didn't sound like it. Second time was the charm for Battle Bowl. Will that hold true for spinning the wheel as well? To find out, let's go to the ring.
Halloween Skits and Tony Schiavone's Spooky Antics
00:04:04
Speaker
I'll take you to Hershey's for some gum. I'll take you all my eminem's. Oh, I want some eminem's. Hey, guys, I've got this great idea. Matt, I'm tired and I want to go home.
00:04:16
Speaker
Besides, Halloween Havoc is about to start. Look, you have been picking houses all night long. Now it's my turn. Yeah, that's only because we ended up with two pieces of last year's Christmas fruitcake from the last one you picked.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah! Whatever house you pick better be good. Good? You want good? This will be better than good. This one will be great. And I want
00:04:53
Speaker
Cool.
00:05:04
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:05:13
Speaker
This place is creepy. What are you guys, babies or something? This place ain't that bad. Well look at it, Matt. It looks like it's haunted. Let's just go home and watch Halloween Habit and forget all about this one.
00:05:27
Speaker
We've got plenty of candy already. Wah wah, who cares about candy? I came here to see something scary.
00:05:39
Speaker
Cool. think I hear mom calling. Sisters, what a pain. Who brought her?
Elaborate WCW Intro: A Comedic Highlight
00:05:58
Speaker
kids. Wow, it's Tony Schiavone. Hey, shouldn't you be at the pay-per-view? Um... I have a helicopter waiting to pick me up in a few minutes.
00:06:10
Speaker
What's that smell, Tony? It's my wife. She's baking. Cookies. Would you kids like to have some? What kind are they? Only a kind of mother could make.
00:06:23
Speaker
Why don't you come inside and have a bite of her cookies? We have enough treats already. We came here to see something scary.
00:06:33
Speaker
You want to see something scary?
00:06:36
Speaker
I'll show you something scary.
00:06:54
Speaker
inside. So, you kids want a little fright in your night, huh? Gee, Mr. Shivani, how did you get up there so fast? Don't you kids know? All things are possible on All Hallows Eve. Frightening.
00:07:11
Speaker
Chilling things like spin the wheel, make the deal. Just one haunting spin will lock Cactus Jack and Vader in combat when it lands on one of its many ghoulish haunting matches.
00:07:27
Speaker
That's not gonna be scary. If you can't come up with something better than that, we are leaving.
00:07:43
Speaker
Okay, okay, I've had it all right you guys want to be really scared? Get a load of this.
00:07:53
Speaker
Let's get out of here!
00:08:00
Speaker
are
00:08:07
Speaker
are
00:08:20
Speaker
So, last show, I recall saying that 1995's intro would be hard to beat. That's because I mixed things up. This is the intro that I was thinking of. As I recall, 1995's is pretty wild, though, with a ludicrously over-the-top buildup of the Hogan and Giant feud.
00:08:37
Speaker
As for this show, what you just heard, and I highly suggest watching it yourself as audio does not do it justice, is potentially WCW's most elaborate show intro of its entire run, featuring four kids going trick-or-treating at a big spooky house inhabited by, apparently, Tony Schiavone.
00:08:54
Speaker
They're dressed like a vampire, some kind of witch, a lazily assembled Frankenstein's monster, and Sting. After the lead vampire kid throws shade on the spin-the-wheel-make-the-deal concept,
00:09:06
Speaker
like no one else was doing that. Yeah, right. Tony morphs, mostly off-camera, but with the same unmasking motion that they use in the Mission Impossible films, into a weird, hairy monster, and chases the kids, presumably to murder and or eat them, or both.
00:09:20
Speaker
But they get the door open and presumably escape as we cut to the arena. This thing had to be terrifically expensive, and Tony recounts on what happened when, that the shoot was a generally unpleasant and very long experience, including what sounds like several retakes of the stairs shots.
00:09:36
Speaker
Tony says by the time he started filming those, he'd had enough for the night. He also notes that his kids were there who were planned to be used as other trick-or-treaters who run by, but they didn't actually film that footage until 2 a.m.
00:09:50
Speaker
He said the kids were
The Absurdity of WCW Halloween Show Intros
00:09:51
Speaker
pretty pretty upset and yeah being kept up that late, and then they didn't end up even using the footage. I imagine that's because the kids by that point looked less like excited trick-or-treaters and more like they were going to fall asleep mid-run.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Still, I adore this introduction. I've been looking forward to it all series. Like WCW's many movies, this is peak endearing stupidity from WCW, putting together something unnecessarily complicated and expensive, but really putting their hearts into it so that you just can't be mad.
00:10:25
Speaker
WCW is a professional wrestling company that frequently puts on very expensive kindergarten plays, basically. That's fair, yeah. Thoughts on the segment, Al? Oh, I really enjoyed it. It's real piece of horror movie cheese.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yes. I'm a big movie buff, obviously, if anyone knows me outside of this. So I love seeing people attempt to do this kind of thing. Obviously, there's really good movies that can do this. And then there's stuff like this.
00:10:53
Speaker
Thankfully, as a short little bit, it is very funny. I like that the one kid who's sort of the Frankenstein's monster is not fully copyright infringing. He has the green on and the headpiece, but not the neck bolts.
00:11:06
Speaker
True. Yeah. It does also make it look like the world's laziest costume. But yeah. Yes. Because in case you don't know, the character Frankenstein and the monster that follows it are public domain because the book is very, very old at this point.
00:11:21
Speaker
However, Universal civically designed their own makeup. This is not based on the book really at all. If you read the book, it's nothing about being green or neck bolts or any of that stuff. So they held, even in this day, hold a very strong copyright on that design.
00:11:36
Speaker
So if you want use that design, you have to pay them. Surprisingly, WCW didn't waste money on this, although they wasted a lot of money in this segment in general. Yeah, yeah. I'm genuinely shocked they didn't try to get away with like having a Frankenstein so monster that had the neck bolts or something, but it was just like colored off white or something like that instead.
00:11:56
Speaker
Like they did with Arachno Man. Yes. I was trying to think about the influence for this one as well. I did a little Googling of it and background stuff because for me, this felt a lot like a Goosebumps segment. Yes.
00:12:09
Speaker
It's very much kids horror TV show. Yeah, that or like Are You Afraid of the Dark is the one of that I come mind as well. I couldn't tell you a single episode of that show, but I know that title, like it's a grain in my brain.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah. Midnight society and they throw the sand into the fire and the story starts. Good. Couldn't tell you any of the stories, but I remember that so vividly. It would not be out of place for this to open with that sequence.
00:12:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So the books had come out. They were a big hit about a year so before this. So by 93, basically late 93, there's been a bunch of books. The show didn't start a couple years later, so they're not copying the style of the show.
00:12:46
Speaker
But this whole idea that you're basically making scary stuff for the younger demo really does feel like inspired by goosebumps, even if just spiritually so. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:58
Speaker
The Tony Schiavone thing is funny because you could have just made him a vampire. Yes. The way he looks. And it's so much cheaper. He's doing a massive vampire. I guess they figured the the main kid they had dressed as a vampire. So maybe they didn't want to repeat the concept.
00:13:12
Speaker
But there's like synchronicity there then and stuff. You know, all that all that stuff like filmmakers like. Yeah, yeah. Those are words that they use. Yes. Yes. So, yeah, i'm I'm a little shocked that they went through this. Like, what would you describe that costume as, Al?
00:13:29
Speaker
He basically turns into a giant bat. i think that's what they're going for. Yeah, like it's a werewolf concept, but as a bat. That has been done in some movies. I can't remember how close they got to that in Bram Storky's Dracula, which had been about a year before this movie.
00:13:42
Speaker
But it's definitely something I've seen at some point. Yeah. It is one of the more famous deleted scenes from Batman Forever, which came out in 1985. He imagines the bat as like a giant bat.
00:13:54
Speaker
It's cut from the movie, but you can see these really weird out context stills where it's Val Kimmer posing with like an eight foot tall bat. You're like, what what is this from? Like, that's Batman, but what? Nice.
00:14:06
Speaker
But overall, it's quite fun. i mean, obviously they cut a lot of corners for the transformation. Like you said, they do sort of the neck pull up bit, like you're pulling the mask off. Then it cuts the kid's reaction. And then you just suddenly fool the creature. Yeah, there's no morphing effect or anything like that.
00:14:21
Speaker
i do want to I do want to call out, I think Tony actually does a respectable job of acting in this. does. He plays just slightly off. He pauses a little too long on his sentences and says things with a slightly weird rhythm and and things, clearly intentionally. So it's not him being a bad actor, it's him intentionally acting that way to portray a strange version of himself.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah. So... I give him some real credit for like, this is a weird thing the company is asking you to do. And as as often is the case, Tony is just like, yeah, sure, whatever, I'll do it.
00:14:55
Speaker
thank Yeah, pretty much. I do also like to point out that his excuse for why he's still at home, like the show is about to start, is that they're sending a helicopter form. If any company would actually fly a commentator via helicopter to show, it would be this company.
00:15:11
Speaker
I was thinking the same thing the moment he said that. I'm like, well, that's plausible. Yeah. Yeah. this is perhaps the best intro that WSW has ever done or will ever do in their run on a show. It is so wonderfully, stupidly elaborate and thought out and shot with consideration for angles and staging and all this stuff. And if you have never seen it, it is well worth just looking that up and just having some fun with it. It's,
00:15:41
Speaker
Look, by no stretch of the imagination is this a good production, but it is so wonderfully, endearingly cheesy that you just fall in love with it. it's It is one of the best things WCW ever did in its run, I think.
00:15:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Agreed. Yeah, there's a weird sort of goofy charm that really doesn't quite, if you really think about it, doesn't quite gel with this, we're super real, this is like a real sport kind of thing.
00:16:07
Speaker
Because they've been pushing against WWF for so long about that. They're like, you know, we're sport real sports one, and they make fun of Hogan and such and such. And yet, suddenly, our lead commentator is a man-bat, apparently, and they're going kill children to open our show.
00:16:22
Speaker
i love that they do it, but it makes absolutely no sense with the rest of the show. I mean, you get away with it a little bit because it's the Halloween show, I guess. Of course, yeah. Like even a real sports broadcast will be silly sometimes for like a Halloween show or a special holiday show and stuff. and Oh, yeah. And do some skits with their commentary team and things. So it's well worth your time. So if you want any evidence of how much fun it is to watch, we've talked about it now for, I believe, going on 10 minutes on just the show intro segment. Yeah. i don't know how long it'll be on the actual episode, but it clearly got us engaged.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. As for the actual show that we're here to discuss, because we reluctantly have to move on from that. Yeah.
Costume Highlights and Banter
00:17:00
Speaker
Host Eric Bischoff welcomes us to the show, as presumably Tony needs time to change back to human form and board that helicopter he mentioned.
00:17:07
Speaker
Eric, unfortunately, is dressed as a Confederate soldier. Yeah. Kind of, as I'm pretty sure the sparkly gold and white cowboy hat wasn't standard. No, i don't think so.
00:17:18
Speaker
He runs down the card and shows off the redesigned wheel. Uh-huh. Yes. They spent more money on it. Yeah. It now features less blades and some big bullhorns, but it still includes the snakes, which seems kind of like the one thing you would remove yeah since that directly ties to Jake the Snake Roberts.
00:17:39
Speaker
Come on, WCW.
00:17:43
Speaker
Oh my gosh. We also have some wonderful Halloween decorations on the stage this time. We have a scary cartoon devil cactus. Oh, yeah. Some tombstones and a logo of a carved pumpkin face and then a tree with a noose hanging from it.
00:17:58
Speaker
And the wheel is also backed by some ah kind of like old wood or something like that, like old building side, like kind of partially rotted. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting look, especially considering they're in New Orleans, not Texas. And this is Halloween Havoc, not Spring Stampede. But they're kind of going for like spooky old west.
00:18:17
Speaker
It makes sense. Yeah, we're in that period where they're they're doing this kind of thing because we had Beach Blast 93 earlier in this year in the timeline. And then we have, like I said, have Spring Stampede, which would slowly really embrace the ludicrous nature of its set design theme.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, I was I was really enthused to see that this one was among those that had like a genuinely fun set on there as well. As we'll see later, they actually will use it a little bit as well, which is great. Absolutely.
00:18:44
Speaker
Eric throws to Tony Schiavone and Jesse the body Ventura, who are tonight's commentary team. The hits just keep on coming from Tony as he's dressed up as Jesse Ventura.
00:18:55
Speaker
h It's amazing. Jesse, on the other hand, is dressed as a creepy doctor with a long, gross tongue, and he's wielding one of the arms of the weird bat creature that Tony turned into earlier. Tony accuses him of dressing up as Tony and and the creature for that movie.
00:19:10
Speaker
He's already disavowing it. I love the logistics of how that would work, by the way. Yes. So he'd have to wear the bat headpiece to cover his actual head.
00:19:23
Speaker
he did He'd have to wear a lifelike Toi Shivani mask over the bat mask that would be unaffected by the much larger head underneath it. Yeah, presumably in Tony's world, that has just happened and was live. Yeah. Not a pre-taped thing. Yeah, so Jesse would have to have both costumes, or he's implying that Jesse really is a strange bat creature and you know also has the shape-shifting ability to turn into Tony Schiavone.
00:19:47
Speaker
The Tony Schiavone have been a mask, and then he really transformed the creature as well. The camera didn't happen to catch the brief moment where he was unmasked as Jesse Ventura before turning into bat creature, yeah. yeah Equally plausible, I think. we We can agree those are equally plausible.
00:20:02
Speaker
That's my headcanon.
00:20:05
Speaker
Jesse claims that he's dressed as a gynecologist, and Tony looks away to not give him the pleasure of a reaction. Yeah. A couple ladies in the front row get pretty big laughs out of it, though. Tony and Jesse discuss spin the wheel, make the deal.
00:20:19
Speaker
And Jesse says, whatever the match is, it'll be good because anything can happen at Halloween Havoc, including gooses. What? And goblins. Did he mean ghost? He definitely says gooses.
00:20:30
Speaker
Now want to play untitled goose and goblins game. Yeah. That'd be fun, actually. Just let loose and and fight all the monsters. Jesse sticks a thermometer in Tony's butt, well, against his pants anyway, and says that he's heating up for Halloween Havoc.
00:20:45
Speaker
And Tony gives us a somewhat annoyed let's go to the ring. So our first match is Harlem Heat.
00:21:02
Speaker
so our first match is harlem heat Stevie Ray and Booker T with their questionable names of this period, Kane and Cole, and The Equalizer, Dave Sullivan, versus Ice Train, Charlie Norris, and The Shockmaster in a six-man tag match.
Recap of the Six-Man Tag Match
00:21:20
Speaker
The referee for this one is Randy Anderson. The Shockmaster had his famous, or very much infamous, debut for the last pay-per-view. He also managed to get the win over one half of Harlem Heat in that net. So there's some through line with that.
00:21:38
Speaker
Amusingly, because the debut of the Shockmaster is so legendarily bad, believe me, we will cover that at the appropriate time in full. But basically, it goes so poorly that they abandoned the plan for the character, but also keep the name, which is a little weird.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yes. So they lean into this idea that he's now Uncle Fred, which is referenced in commentary, and a sort of lovable goof that falls over all the time. But then when he gets in the ring, he's really talented and coordinated.
00:22:04
Speaker
Notably, they would do an at home segment with him where he's showing how he interacts with Dusty's kids. Oh, which means we get the proper debut of Cody Rhodes. Oh, wow.
00:22:16
Speaker
With his Uncle Fred hanging out. Yeah. Actually, before we thought was his debut, he shows up in this pre-tape as well. That's genuinely cool. 1994, Cody hanging out with Uncle Fred, playing video games, watching TV.
00:22:31
Speaker
See, even though we're doing show about a company that hasn't been around for literally 25 years now at this point, we are still topical because I'm with Cody Rhodes on this episode. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:22:43
Speaker
I do have to say, I don't think that the Uncle Fred thing is the worst gimmick. Yeah. Like, if if you're accepting, like, this one explicitly targeted more at the younger demographic and everything, and you would not take him seriously as a world title contender with that gimmick.
00:22:58
Speaker
No. But I think that's a perfectly acceptable, like, mid-card gimmick. The problem with it is that it comes after his initial gimmick completely tanked and failed because he trips coming out of a wall.
00:23:09
Speaker
hmm. Yeah. It always looks like a retreat. Yeah. If you had started him with that gimmick to begin with, it might have been an endearing comedy goof. hmm. But as it is, I don't remember how long this actually goes on for, but probably less time than it could have.
00:23:26
Speaker
I'll get into that, but not long. OK. In case you hadn't figured it out, the most direct influence for the whole Uncle Fred thing is the movie Uncle Buck starring John Candy. Makes sense. Mm hmm.
00:23:38
Speaker
Harlem Heat and the Equalizer are out first. I'm going to just call Booker and Stevie by their later names in part to keep it straight and in part because the names they go by here are kind of problematic. Stevie and Equalizer threaten to rip their opponent's faces off, which I think would probably be a disqualification.
00:23:56
Speaker
They could start with Tony first. it'd be okay, though. Yeah, yeah. Just might make it a little hard for him to commentate. Yeah, probably. Shockmaster, Ice Train, and Charlie Norris come out next.
00:24:07
Speaker
shockmaster famously debuted in a glittery star wars stormtrooper helmet but he's wearing a plain white hard hat now as wcw abandoned the mysterious part of his character after he face planted during his debut yeah poor guy norris from what i can find is one of the rare native american themed wrestlers who actually is native american yeah true apparently he was also in the running to play tatanka in the wwf oh time that makes sense yeah Meanwhile, Tony redirects from more talk about his temperature by asking Jesse if he liked Tony's costume.
00:24:41
Speaker
Jesse says, yeah, pauses for roughly a million years, and adds that they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but he's not so sure. Tony jokingly pretends to be surprised that Jesse thinks he looks like him.
00:24:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Tony discusses a surprise tag title change on the preceding WCW Saturday night, but almost words it so it sounds like Ice Train, Norris, and Shockmaster won the titles before quickly realizing it and clarifying it was too cold Scorpio and Bagwell.
00:25:10
Speaker
Well, there's a cold person in both matches. That's fair. That's fair. I wonder if it ever happened that Ice Train and Too Cold Scorpio teamed up. I don't know. Aside from their similar you know gimmick names, I could actually see that maybe working as a team.
00:25:24
Speaker
You'd have the really huge beefy guy who's an ice train is pretty decent, honestly, at at that kind of role. And then Too Cold Scorpio doing all the agility stuff. Now that I say it, I kind of would like to see that.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah. Would he be even colder Scorpio at that point? ah Presumably because he's he's been in yo know the the ice train the whole time. just I mean, yeah. Alongside him, he cools him down. Yeah. Well, he started out too cold, so he's even colder than he was before.
00:25:48
Speaker
And he was already too cold. So now he's hypothermic, I guess. Yeah. Let's go with that. Sure.
00:25:56
Speaker
Ice train and Booker T start and Booker tries to get the crowd on his side, but gets booed. Ice train does his to to call and gets cheered. then easily overpowers Booker, so Booker tags Stevie in the most wonderfully petulant way that he possibly could.
00:26:12
Speaker
Train stuns Stevie and tags Norris, but Stevie pokes the eyes and slugs him, then tags Booker, who immediately gets arm dragged. Norris, Shockmaster, and Train work Booker's arm.
00:26:24
Speaker
Shockmaster gets a particularly big reaction from the crowd, until Booker floors Train with a dropkick and roars for the crowd's approval, two boos. Mm-hmm. It's really neat seeing Booker use the same kind of like call outs and things that he'll later use as an actual face to portray kind of a delusional heel that thinks the crowd likes him.
00:26:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Booker and Stevie double sidewalk slam train for two, then tag Equalizer. Equalizer beats train up, including quite a bad headbutt and a very loose chop.
00:26:55
Speaker
But Train escapes with a face buster and tags Norris as someone in the crowd uses a very loud and annoying warbling noise maker that Al can tell you got be increasingly irritated throughout the night.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yes, yes it did.
00:27:10
Speaker
Norris fails to fell equalizer with shoulder blocks, so he tags Shockmaster, who quickly succeeds. We get our first of many whoop there it is chance tonight, proving that it is the Yes.
00:27:23
Speaker
yes Shockmaster and Ice Train hit a somewhat disappointing double back elbow. It looks fine, just not what I was expecting for two huge dudes. and Norris is tagged to get two with a double chop.
00:27:35
Speaker
Booker saves, and Norris inadvisably confronts Harlem Heat, leaving him open to an Equalizer double axe handle. Then, one of the worst clotheslines that I have ever seen in my life. Equalizer hits more with his chest or shoulder than the arm.
00:27:50
Speaker
Equalizer, Stevie, and Booker trade off wearing Norris down and earn two counts with a Stevie slam, Booker knee drop, and an interesting Booker spinning axe kick that I guess kind of predates his scissor kick.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah. It's cool, it just doesn't quite have enough snap. Yeah. Delusional Booker keeps trying to get the crowd on his side. Norris dodges a Booker second rope headbutt and tags Shockmaster, who runs wild with clotheslines and punches on all three heels, briefly gets stopped by a Booker club and eye gouge, but reverses a whip and hits kind of a bear hug shin buster for the three count and the win.
00:28:27
Speaker
I'm not really sure how to describe that movie, like grabs you in a bear hug, drops straight down and then falls forward. so yeah, yeah. yeah Both Train and Norris appear to be late or forget spots in the ending, as Stevie has a clear path to stop Shockmaster, but pauses, glances at Train, and runs over to fight him instead, as Train belatedly enters. And Equalizer also runs over to fight Norris instead of stopping the pin, despite Norris showing no inclination to get into the ring.
00:28:56
Speaker
Equalizer comes over to brawl with Shockmaster after the bell, and Shockmaster floors him with an awkward clubbing forearm to knock him out of the ring. I cannot say that I'm thrilled about that tease of a feud.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair enough. Thoughts on this one? It's a pretty nothing match, to be honest with you. We have a handful of guys that have not been wrestling a real long time. Ice Train's like it is, I think it's in his first year of properly, like fully wrestling.
00:29:23
Speaker
Obviously, we saw him back in 92, Fallen Havoc, as part the training video for Barbarian. So he's been training for a while. But as far as active wrestling, it's been about a year. Obviously, some of the people like Shockmaster have lot more experience, which kind does show when you see the actual match. People that wrestle longer and just are generally more talented, so not equalizer, really could do more in the match.
00:29:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The way I wrote my notes was a lot of like first year wrestling school stuff. Real basic drop downs, you know, strikes and stuff like that. There's no like complicated sequences of like blind tags or any that kind of stuff. It's just real simple stuff that's probably easier to remember, but also not that exciting.
00:30:04
Speaker
Booker is definitely the highlight here for the most part because he has his fun character moments throughout and does little flourishes of what we know he will do much better. This is more experienced and he's got a thing better to work with.
00:30:17
Speaker
We have our decent temps at heat by, well, Harlem heat. So it is worth noting that we have a finish in a six man tag match where four the six people are at a position. Yes.
00:30:28
Speaker
Statistically, that is not good math for this match.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. it's It's pretty poorly done at the end there. I think it's pretty solidly on Ice Train and Charlie Norris. Yeah. I think that Equalizer and Stevie Ray both expect them to be charging the ring. Yeah. And they're just not. But yeah.
00:30:51
Speaker
I could almost see as well if um like, see Ray's thinking that the bear hug into whatever they finish that finish is supposed be would have been longer. Like he, cause he won their match against them, but just actual regular bear hug.
00:31:04
Speaker
Gotcha. So maybe he starts to come in and then suddenly he does the dropdown turn into, I guess, sort the boss man slam kind of thing. Maybe he's like, oh, he's going for the bear hug. I should run in like I'm going to interrupt it.
00:31:15
Speaker
And then he drops it down. He's like, oh, going for a pin now. And there's no one to stop me. So he has to then immediately change plans. He does. that He does make the best of it to fair. Like I said, it's probably on the face team side because they're just not ready either for the finish. So it's not a case of where like one person's wrong and else is right. It's kind of a lot of blame to go around.
00:31:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. We definitely had better six-man matches open this series of shows with, though, for sure. Yeah, like you, I found it quite basic. But I will say, aside from when Equalizer was in the ring, it was capably performed.
00:31:49
Speaker
Yeah. It kept a pretty good pace for an opener. These are bigger guys than WSW will normally call on for these sorts of matches, and thus they're slower. But they made the right decisions in having the quickest, Booker, be in there for most of the match.
00:32:03
Speaker
It got a good reaction from the crowd, particularly with Ice Train, Shockmaster, and Booker. And I was particularly enjoying Booker's act for this, as he he plays like he really, truly thinks the crowd is going to come around and cheer for him eventually.
00:32:15
Speaker
He appeals to them despite being booed every single time. Yeah. Overall, a decent, if simple, opener that gave some less experienced guys some screen time and only got sloppy when Equalizer was in there.
00:32:28
Speaker
And even then, it kept a good pace, and they managed everyone's time pretty well. weird mistimed ending but other than that i didn't really have a problem with it if anything is that they they took long enough than that where i was thinking oh maybe they're not gonna tag an equalizer oh never mind there they did it you wish al now i know i know steve is a heel because he tagged equalizer in you weren't sure until then and then oh he brought in that guy yeah there's fun fact for
Discussion on WWF Hall of Fame Rings
00:32:57
Speaker
you.
00:32:57
Speaker
There are four w Hall of Fame rings distributed amongst the people in this match. Okay. Do you know who they belong to? So probably Harlem Heat. Right. Plus two.
00:33:08
Speaker
I'm going to probably say that Fred Ottman, Fred Ottman, or is Ottman or Ottman? Ottman. yeah Anyway, Shockmaster, I would imagine. He won it this year. Yeah. I kind of figured he would. Okay. Him and Tenta.
00:33:22
Speaker
Hmm. Does Booker have one on his own as well? He does. There you go. said, if you forget the phrase, I said there's four rings. They didn't say four people. Yeah. I kind of feel bad for the other guys in this match that Booker having two rings seemed more plausible than one of them having.
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Especially since i I don't, I was going to say I don't dislike Ice Train. I actually, um I'll go further than that. I like Ice Train. I think he's actually a pretty good performer and has a great personality.
00:33:52
Speaker
But he just, I don't think ever became, no pun intended, big enough yeah to get to that point in kind of the wrestling hierarchy, I guess. It's a bit of a dark horse, but see at some point they're trying to add people in the Hall of Fame and then want to sort of go into WCW.
00:34:07
Speaker
I could honestly see just certain extent doing Fire and Ice. Yeah. If you want to put Scott Norton in and you don't want to put him in based on his new Japan run, you know, he held the world title there. If they came up, I wouldn't be opposed to. it Yeah, I mean, I think it was a reasonably notable tag team for a period in the mid 90s. Yeah.
00:34:25
Speaker
Norton obviously is prominent enough that at some point he should probably go in there. Yeah. And then Ice Train, you know, I think could get in there. I feel so bad saying it by association, but that is what it would be, I think. Yeah.
00:34:39
Speaker
and Unless, I mean, I've not looked up the guy's full career. Maybe he had a longer thing after WCW, but you know. No, he he literally retired from wrestling when Debs had been closed. Oh, well.
00:34:51
Speaker
Anyway, Ice Train, just know that I liked you. Mm-hmm.
00:34:56
Speaker
So, you'll be, I guess, not happy is the wrong word, not surprised to learn that two of the winners of our match will be gone by January of next year. Norris would not be contract renewed, unfortunately. He gave them one-year contract contract He was guys. He was a Meyers standing reading up on him.
00:35:13
Speaker
It's the only time I really seen him, unfortunately, due to his his nature of his push in the company. He might be on that battle. So I really want to I know I have to watch some point. So maybe I'll go with more chance to see him.
00:35:25
Speaker
It's just really to be cringing at battle and not so at him because he's fine. Oh, yeah, yeah. You you did. OK, yeah. He didn't have much better luck than the last day American duo that we had on the the same series, unfortunately. He did have better luck in one way.
00:35:37
Speaker
e They didn't put him up against the free birds on Halloween Havoc, so he got cheered. That's true, yes. He got the right reaction he's supposed to. Shockmaster would leave the company starting around January. So the whole Uncle Fred push doesn't go very far.
00:35:52
Speaker
get to see him in Battle Bowl. And then we got to see him in that interesting match at Starrcade. So he got a Starrcade match up as a push. And he got that famous moment from it. But yeah, he didn't take around much like that.
00:36:05
Speaker
He obviously kept pressing quite a while after this. Yeah, yeah. Ice Train actually got the other company in about May, June, July. hard to put in the exact time because his last big like TV match, they had him lose on a classic champion show.
00:36:20
Speaker
And he has three other matches listed on Cage Match through the syndicated shows that ran up to July. But of course, given nature of how they did those shows, you could take all those back in April and they just kind of spread them out.
00:36:32
Speaker
Right. It's hard to tell when he actually got the company based on when his matches aired because of how that worked. So Ice Train would go from WCW to the CWA, which is the wrestling company based out of Austria. We've talked about a couple of times before. Yes. Yeah. By Otto Vons, which is where Vader was also popular.
00:36:51
Speaker
Given the body type, if you know what a Vons looks like and Ice Train looks like and what Vader looks like, kind of see what they're going for. The kind of guy they like to push there. Well, there he'd wrestle a bunch of people, including Fit Finley.
00:37:03
Speaker
And funny, so this match features C-Race, who's in-ring this point is Kane. Ice Train would actually wrestle Kane before he was Kane, that being Glenn Jacobs.
00:37:14
Speaker
Oh! In the CWA as well. That's very funny. To add another little weird easter egg aspect to it, he wrestled Kane and his gimmick as Spartacus. And if Bartik is famously the gimmick that Jim Hurd wanted to give to Ric Flair, know, involving cutting his hair and putting earrings on and not being world champion anymore, didn't leave the company.
00:37:38
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. That is a lot of interesting coincidences there. Yeah. And just in general, ah through a through line for this show as well is going to be that Battle Bowl is chock full of people. So it's hard to guarantee that you see some of the show. They're probably going be in Battle Bowl.
00:37:53
Speaker
I'm sure we won't have any reason other than your your stuff to mention Battle Bowl tonight. So thanks for making sure that that name got on there. So we're aware that it's coming. Absolutely.
00:38:05
Speaker
Tony throws to Bischoff, who is backstage with Terry Taylor, the special second referee for Ric Flair versus Rick Rude tonight.
Terry Taylor's Role and Teased Storylines
00:38:13
Speaker
Thank you Tony Schiavone, you are absolutely correct.
00:38:16
Speaker
We will indeed have two referees in this critical matchup with Ravishing Rick Rude and Ric Flair and joining me now, Terry Taylor, the man who was chosen by the WCW Board of Directors to be that second referee and Terry Taylor, let me ask you, a lot of people wanted the job that you have.
00:38:31
Speaker
Why did you politic so hard? Why did you want this opportunity? Well, you very much. This is not Halloween outfit. I really am going be referee. And people say, why, Terry, do you want to be referee in a match of this magnitude?
00:38:44
Speaker
That's exactly why. Ric Flair, Ric Rude, they hate each other. They both want that gold belt. They want the prestige. They want to prove they are the man. Is this the end of an era with Ric Flair and the beginning of another one with Ric Rood? We're going to find out tonight. And the thing that makes me feel so good that I've done a lot of bad things in the past, and I think everybody out there knows it. Here's a chance for me to do something good.
00:39:05
Speaker
I'm going to make an unpopular decision, maybe. I'll maybe make a popular one. I'm going to call it right down the middle. Take it away, General Custer. All right, let's get back to the ring to Tony and Jesse. Just to note, General Custer was on the Union side in the Civil War. Yeah, was going to say, that didn't sound right.
00:39:21
Speaker
Yeah, Bischoff clearly has not. Otherwise, decent promo that builds some interesting intrigue. Is Taylor seriously looking for redemption by doing a good job, or does he have a hidden agenda that's going to come into play in the match?
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah. He kind of plays just the right type of tone to make you question whether he's being genuine or not, but you can't be sure. It's not like you feel like he's definitely not genuine. It feels like, oh, he might be, but I'm not sure I trust him. Yeah, I could see that.
00:39:51
Speaker
What will come of this? Will he favor one side? Will he do something shady as a referee? Will he prove worthy of redemption? Or will this promo build to absolutely nothing as he just acts like a totally normal referee for the duration?
00:40:03
Speaker
We'll see, I guess. But still, fine promo in my in my book. Yeah, I'm thinking it's a little early in the show for it, maybe, though. That'd be my only real critique. I wouldn't have a problem with it being this early if they were going to do Rick Rude promo and a Ric Flair promo later.
00:40:20
Speaker
But they don't. Yeah. Spoilers, I guess. But they don't do that. So it does feel a little bit weird that this is this early in the show. That's, I think, the seventh match of eight. Yes. So we're quite far from that match still.
00:40:32
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, if this promo ran now and like two matches later, we've got a Rick Rude or like Ric Flair one, then, you know, if these were spaced out and that gets a common story that's going throughout the entire show, that's fine. Which basically this one up promo and then the main event happens.
00:40:48
Speaker
Seven main an event, I guess, happens. I would put a later in the show if this is literally all we're going to get for it. Yeah. Not right before the match itself, but maybe before the match before that. So before match six, something like that.
00:41:02
Speaker
It's just odd placement because it's like, here's a match. and Here's this thing. Now we'll talk about it for quite a while. Yeah, I agree. Like said, it's a decent promo by Taylor and he's never been bad at promo. So fair play.
00:41:16
Speaker
Okay, so our second match is Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff with The Assassin versus Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. And the referee is Nick Patrick with Nick Patrick's mustache.
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah. So originally this match was booked and presented as Ricky Steamboat versus Yoshi Kwan. They cast this guy who's not Asian in any way, I should point out, and said, you're going to be this character. We're going to give you this big old hat right out of Big Trouble in Little China.
00:41:46
Speaker
And they gave him a big old Fu Manchu. He was portrayed by, I'm going to say his full name here for effect, Christopher Dennis Ashford Smith.
00:41:58
Speaker
So I'm not saying that like he was bad in school. Just really emphasis, he's a very British man playing this character. Now, granted, there's a long history of cultural appropriation of China and Asia, so this is not surprising.
00:42:11
Speaker
And also, I'm pretty sure wasn't his idea. I will say he did play this character later, so maybe he was? He did this much longer than you would think he did.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, so he was booked for this match, and I'm not glad that this guy got hurt, obviously. But in a way, I'm glad this happened because we would get a better match out of it, and it'll be less awkward for all of us involved to have to talk about it the entire match rather than just getting out of the way here.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yes. Unfortunately, he will come back up again when we cover Fall Brawl, looping back around skin so we'll I'll cover him at least one more time, but for now, we are done, thankfully, with Yoshi Kwan. Dodging a bullet there for this show anyway, yeah.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yes. I'm not sad we're missing that gimmick of his. I am sad that we're missing, apparently, an earlier gimmick of his, where he was a time traveler from a future in which Dusty Rhodes was president.
00:43:01
Speaker
That's true, yes. Which it sounds absolutely hilariously awesome. Yeah, I feel like I mentioned that like real early in the show. I feel i feel like you you did at some point, yeah. in like 8586 Starcade or something.
00:43:14
Speaker
so it's been a while since that guy mentioned as well. Yeah. That I would really have loved to see. I don't think it ever makes a pay-per-view of any kind, but oh my gosh, that sounds amazing. Yeah.
00:43:27
Speaker
Now, so the substitute here is Paul Orndorff, which does actually play in the stories a bit better anyways.
Setup for Steve Regal vs. British Bulldog
00:43:33
Speaker
Notably, Steamboat beat Orndorff for the TV title back in August at a previous Clash Champions event.
00:43:39
Speaker
But Lin later lost it. If this sounds familiar, this happened to him last year as well, winning the TV title on Clash Champions and losing it before the pay-per-view Halloween Havoc. There's a lot of deja vu throughout this show, which is spooky, so that is appropriate.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And this is another case of that.
00:43:59
Speaker
As Orndorff enters in his quite nice dark blue and silver robe, accompanied by the assassin, Tony wonders what the assassin is doing with Orndorff. Jesse theorizes that it's Halloween, so you hang out with people with masks.
00:44:12
Speaker
He also, somewhat sarcastically, talks about what good shape the assassin is in. As John once noted, he's the cuddly one. Yeah.
00:44:24
Speaker
Tony says this adds a new dimension to the match, and Steamboat needs to be careful. Yes, especially with Assassin's son as the referee. Yes. If anyone surprised me, the Assassin, it's yes, it's Nick Patrick.
00:44:37
Speaker
So don't worry, I'm sure good old Nick Patrick wouldn't ever do anything unethical as a referee, especially about four years later. No, that's a really specific thing to say. But no, I don't think so either. love i love we've we've already done that episode, but we're still.
00:44:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah, we're keeping up. Gotta keep digging further, you know, we'll find more gold somehow. Steamboat gets a tremendous ovation as he enters and does his fire-breathing act.
00:45:03
Speaker
The crowd chant Paula at Orndorff. For now, he largely ignores them and instead ambushes Steamboat as he's encouraging the chants. Orndorff presses the advantage to start and beats Steamboat up, interrupted only by a Steamboat roll-up for two when he does get distracted by a Paula chant.
00:45:20
Speaker
Orddorf gets Steamboat on the ramp, but easily dodges a Steamboat dive over the ropes back in, then earns a couple two counts with a belly-to-back suplex. Steamboat finally comes back with a wild aerial whip-around arm takedown into a hammerlock and works the arm with hammerlocks and arm bars, rope-assisted drops, and ring post rams, broken only by a Steamboat crossbody for two, until Assassin gets in his face outside and Patrick keeps them apart, probably thinking, geez, Dad, I'm trying to work here. Yeah, right.
00:45:49
Speaker
Jesse questions why Patrick hasn't disqualified Steamboat for running Orndorff into the ring post, and Tony says the rule is headfirst is a disqualification, but anything else is fine. I've never even seen headfirst be a disqualification myself.
00:46:02
Speaker
No. Steamboat is increasingly aggressive and even grabs Patrick and gets in his face and uses an illegal hold, wrenching on Orndorff's fingers. Tony says that Steamboat must be angry about their months-long conflict.
00:46:17
Speaker
Jesse just thinks Steamboat knows he can't win clean. Two guys in the crowd are wearing sports caps that happen to be the exact right colors for Mario and Luigi's hats. I was so excited for a moment.
00:46:30
Speaker
I am, bro. Orndorff tries an inadvisable elbow drop with the hurt arm, and Steamboat dodges, but Steamboat keeps knocking him flat until after Steamboat runs Orndorff into the steps and then slugs him, Patrick warns Steamboat, and Orndorff takes advantage to repeatedly ram Steamboat into the apron.
00:46:48
Speaker
If this was anyone but Honorable Nick Patrick, I'd think he was supporting his dad's client there. He is beyond reproach. Orndorff beats Steamboat up outside. Back in, Orndorff hits a top rope elbow, which WCW shows from the one angle that makes it clear it doesn't hit Steamboat in the face.
00:47:05
Speaker
Good job, WCW. Two count off an Orndorff elbow drop, and they crossbody each other and both go down. Orndorff pins for two, but Patrick catches him using the ropes and repeatedly kicks his hands stop him, and Steamboat rolls him up for two.
00:47:22
Speaker
Tony says, the referee kicking the feet of Orndorff. I don't think that wherever Tony studied anatomy was accredited. No.
00:47:32
Speaker
Steamboat fires up and earns two counts with a big flying chop, a double chop, a back body drop counter to a pile driver, a counter sequence ending in a catapult to the turnbuckle, and a top rope crossbody while Patrick is distracted talking to his dad, presumably about tonight's dinner.
00:47:47
Speaker
Orndorff slugs Steamboat while he's protesting, but Steamboat still earns a couple two counts with flying shoulder blocks and gets him in the ropes for punches. But Patrick breaks it up, so Steamboat shoves Patrick so hard he nearly goes clean over the ropes.
00:48:01
Speaker
Orndorff ducks a charge and pulls down the ropes, and Steamboat spills outside. Orndorff distracts Patrick, and Assassin puts an object in his mask and headbutts Steamboat. Stunned, Steamboat is unable to return to the ring before the ten count, and Orndorff wins by countout.
00:48:19
Speaker
Assassin poses with Orndorff to celebrate. Tony accuses Assassin of loading his mask, but Jesse says the mask is far too tight for that. Fair point. That thing does seem to be really uncomfortable.
00:48:30
Speaker
Ha ha We do definitely see him pull out an object and load the mask on camera, though. It does miss part of the tuck, but I'm pretty sure he actually did get it in there. Yeah, I think so. I think the better question is, how did he get it back out?
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah. Thoughts on this match? That was the pretty enjoyable back and forth match. Obviously, in contrast to the last match, we have two very seasoned veterans here working match that they know they can do.
00:48:58
Speaker
It's interesting pacing because you get real aggressive and assertive steamboat controlling for quite a long time in the beginning, really until Order of takes over. And she's like a quick flurry and then take over depending how match is going to be.
00:49:12
Speaker
And then you back and forth bits. It's interesting how much steamboat's really controlling and being assertive throughout the match. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. As Viteria points out, he's the one that is almost all the time, except for once or twice, taking the action outside the ring as well.
00:49:29
Speaker
know Which is interesting change of pace as well. For me, this was a pretty good match as far as Orndrup goes, because even aside from his obviously understandable technical prowess, I thought his slower, more deliberate pacing worked well with Steamboat, because Steamboat has ways of making even regular holds interesting by constant motion. Yes. And little things that make it seem like he's not just laying there to catch his breath. He's always doing something. Like you said, he's really a consummate pro and he makes everything look better.
00:49:58
Speaker
and that's not to say Orndorff can't make things look good, obviously, but the two them together, I think, really accentuate each other quite well. Yeah, they gel quite nicely in this match, I think. I think you've said before that Orndorff is a sort of performer that is is always reliable, but he's better with guys that have, like, a ability to speed things up.
00:50:19
Speaker
He kind of sets a deliberate pace and gets you excited for seeing what they'll do. Yes. So there's times that we haven't liked his match as much because he's with a guy that doesn't necessarily have that burst of speed energy.
00:50:31
Speaker
And Steamboat definitely has that. So their two styles just mesh together so well. yeah Absolutely. Yeah. I do have a question about the finish, though. Assassin number one loads the mask up and headbutts Steamboat, but then doesn't roll in the ring to get pinned?
00:50:48
Speaker
Like he knocked him out. Why don't you roll him in so your your man could get the pinfall of victory? That's fair. Yeah. I mean, all I can think of, unfortunately, is that maybe he doesn't have as much confidence in Orndorff as we do.
00:51:01
Speaker
He's like, you know, I knocked guy out Orndorff, probably going to not hook his leg right or something. ah Okay, God, then all my my work of 10 seconds will have gone to waste. Or conversely, I think you could maybe see it as he has more faith in Steamboat.
00:51:15
Speaker
He's seen this guy come back from crazy things. And if I go for a countout win, there's no way he can immediately turn that around with like a lucky roll up or something like that. He has to be down for longer, but also there's no way he can magically turn this into a win.
00:51:30
Speaker
Where if you roll him into the ring and he's just conscious enough, he could manage to somehow get like a roll up or something and turn it around. Thinking of it that way, maybe it's a slightly less risky thing where you you're going for levels of certainty.
00:51:44
Speaker
Yeah, it still makes it seem like you don't believe that Orndorff can get things done. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, heels are not known for their confidence. Otherwise, they wouldn't cheat, right? So that's fair. Yeah.
00:51:58
Speaker
Also point out that this is around the time where Orndorff's visible difference in one bicep versus the other is really noticeable. Yes, that's true. There are times where it's not so much, but like watching this match, it's very obvious.
00:52:12
Speaker
And again, knowing the story of how it happened, as in case you don't know, he was booked in big angle with Hulk Hogan in the WWF. He's guaranteed like a whole summer, if not in a fall, of house show matches, getting a nice cut of the profit, main eventing every show.
00:52:26
Speaker
Right as that starts, he injured his neck and he could do what for me would be the same thing. It just drop out and get your neck fixed and then come back. But he decides to work through the injury instead, which I'm sure was not pleasant.
00:52:39
Speaker
me And unfortunately, that led to the situation he got himself injured, which is that the one arm just got smaller the other. no matter how much he worked out, it was just very noticeable. You know, it was one of those things that I think he just he was like, oh, my gosh, I've i've hit the big time here.
00:52:53
Speaker
I've got what I want. I've got a good position, a good spot on the card. Maybe I go away and come back and they don't ever put me at this point again or something. And yeah, I can see that that thought.
00:53:06
Speaker
I don't think that's the decision that I would have made, but I'm not a performer. I can't say that without being in that same place, what I would have said, honestly. Like I said, to someone who's not a pro wrestler, it feels like the insane choice.
00:53:20
Speaker
It feels like, there's no way that you should be working with your neck injured like that. But yeah, from a pro wrestler standpoint of I'm going to make so much money main eventing all these shows, TV and house shows with Hogan.
00:53:33
Speaker
I understand why he did what he did, but it definitely caused long term effects like this. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It basically is that the one arm somewhat atrophied, I think is the right term for that. hmm.
00:53:44
Speaker
You would never accuse him of not working out really, really hard. oh No, no, no, no. He's a big dude. Oh, yeah. But so when you see his non-atrophied arm and you see how so big it gets, and then you see his smaller arm, it makes it stand out more.
00:53:59
Speaker
Like if i if I had that, make it would make itself deprecating because I don't feel like I'm making good fun of the guy. it happened to me, it would not be as noticeable because my one-armor is not that big. You have to be that big and strong and that committed to working out so much.
00:54:14
Speaker
For it to stand out. Yes. yeah as far as the match, I really liked it. I thought there was a really interesting general plot, as you were getting at, Al, that Steamboat actually goes quite far in bending or even outright breaking rules because he's just so fed up with Orndorff.
00:54:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So he actually almost wrestles as the outright heel for the match, even manhandling the referee and getting caught by his opponent because he's too busy protesting counts, spots that are normally reserved for heels.
00:54:43
Speaker
They're careful to keep his actions explained, though. For instance, he grabs the ref because the ref got in his way when he was going to dive, and he approaches the count because the ref was distracted by assassin and missed part of the pinfall.
00:54:54
Speaker
And of course, he still keeps his positive relationship with the fans while Orndorff is still adversarial. But still, the idea gives the match a really interesting atmosphere and a quite different flow. It's almost reversed from the norm.
00:55:07
Speaker
Orndorff gets the hot opener, Steamboat wears him down, and Orndorff makes the comeback until in the late match we go back to normal with Orndorff and his manager doing a whole bunch of cheating. The countout, I think, mostly works for me since it's a clear direct result of the Heel's plan rather than just happenstance.
00:55:25
Speaker
But only if this isn't the end of the feud, and I'm not sure whether it is or not. I'm sure you'll tell me. Otherwise, it's a good overall match between two very experienced guys with a good story, quite a few innovative moves by Steamboat, and a very nice counter fest towards the end.
00:55:43
Speaker
I liked it. Same.
00:55:46
Speaker
So as was mentioned, both of them would be involved in Battle Bowl. And you know, Battle Bowl is 100% legit. It's purely random drawings. And it's just random chance to have it. They would both be involved in the same match at Battle Bowl.
00:55:58
Speaker
Who would have guessed? Cross the ring for each other again. it's amazing. As far as Starcade goes, of course, Steamboat would be challenging for the TV title, a title he really liked going for and then losing quickly, it seems.
00:56:09
Speaker
While Orndorf would be moved in a tag team scene with his new partner, Paul Bruma. We're generally less fond of than Bollardorf. Pretty wonderful as the tag team, right? Mm-hmm. I do like that, at least.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yeah. So at the very least, Battleworld does give us like one more match between them that maybe will kind of serve as the feud ender, I guess. But I think if this is the last big match of the feud, then I feel less good about the ending.
00:56:34
Speaker
But if they kind of like plan to do a little bit more with it, then I'm okay with it. yeah It definitely feels like were leaving his open to do more matches. Yeah, yeah. Which doesn't always happen in wrestling, like the actual follow up in it.
00:56:46
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:56:50
Speaker
We cut to Jesse and Tony Jesse. And Jesse says it's the best that Tony's looked in years. Tony's goatee starts coming off, so he tries to fix it, but Jesse just peels it off, giving us mustache Tony.
00:57:02
Speaker
Now he kind of looks like he's cosplaying quite early as NWO Hogan. Oh, yeah. Tony talks about the big gold belt and mentions WCW guys going on a tour of Europe and mentions that the WCW International Board of Directors recognizes Rick Rude's big gold belt as a world title, so WCW is following suit, giving us the origin, i believe, of the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship, which we both adore.
00:57:30
Speaker
He explains that WCW International is a group of international promoters worldwide. He says that means that Flair versus Rude isn't just for a belt, but is for a full world title.
00:57:41
Speaker
Jesse says he recognized it that way all along, and Tony agrees and says so did the fans. He starts building up the next match, but Jesse rips the center part of his mustache off, leaving Tony with just the short parts on the sides of his lip.
00:57:54
Speaker
It's kind of a pencil mustache with an absurdly large gap. A bit of Ra's al Ghul thing going I'd say. Yeah, that's what I was trying to think of. Yeah. I want to point out briefly that the first W in WCW stands for World.
00:58:08
Speaker
Yes, it does. So World Championship Wrestling International. Yes. That makes sense. Yeah. Actually, f let's let's go to fully. it's the World Championship Wrestling International World title.
00:58:18
Speaker
Yes. It truly is the American Dodgeball Association of America.
00:58:24
Speaker
Tony gives us a let's go to the ring area. Maybe that's a follow-up podcast we could do about the ring crew. Okay, yeah, I can taxi that. and Actually, I'd listen to that, I think. Probably some interesting stories there. Yeah, get lot Gary Michael Pettis stories, I'm sure.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah. Our third match is the British Bulldog, Davey Boy Smith versus Lord Stephen Regal with Sir William for Regal's WCW World Television Championship.
00:58:51
Speaker
Referee for this one is Randy Anderson. I'd like to point out that we're about a month removed from arguably the most famous moment in WCW involving the British Bulldog David Boy Smith, which is his response to the Shockmaster debut.
00:59:06
Speaker
but Oh, yes. When the whole incident happens, he's off camera because the camera is ready to show Shockmaster's debut and his big promo. You can clearly hear Navy boy because it's very thick, deep voice and his very thick accent of camera.
00:59:22
Speaker
He says, and I paraphrase, he fell on his arse, right on his effing arse.
00:59:31
Speaker
He does a very loudly behind the camera so everyone can hear it. Yeah. And he's so distinctive. Like there's no way that anyone doesn't realize who said that. Yeah. He can't go. That wasn't me. That was sting.
00:59:42
Speaker
Yeah. He just rolled their eyes.
00:59:47
Speaker
Oh, it's just the funniest. Also questionable knowledge of anatomy because he falls on his face. Yeah. I think he studied at the same school of anatomy as Tony.
00:59:58
Speaker
That he he didn't think kindly of Fred's face. It is also possible to be fair. I'm not saying I feel that way. I'm saying that's how he might have felt. Which is me because he couldn't even see his face under the helmet. but That's true, yeah.
01:00:11
Speaker
Anyhow, outside of that... we would have Steve Regal winning the TV title, as mentioned, off of Ricky Steamboat, which is the move I'm not opposed in any way. He would begin his reign by having his first defense against Arne Anderson successfully, which is really good.
01:00:27
Speaker
The general story they're going for here is that they're both British, so it's the Battle of Britain. But of course, Regal is really snooty and British, has the you know his brother Sir William, whereas British Bulldog is the man of the people, if all people were gigantic and had had hair like that and were, you know, arm capes.
01:00:48
Speaker
There's a funny bit I got from Video Package where Sir William comes out and insults British Bulldog while doing a promo. And as part of the thing where he's going to beat him up, he lifts the guy up and he's holding him over his head like he's going to press slam him somewhere.
01:01:00
Speaker
Regal, thankfully, runs in helpers man, hitting Bulldog in the back, which makes him drop Sir William, which didn't really help him that much. very yeah I still took quite a fall because this guy's huge.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, you made him drop me the way he was going to drop me. So thanks.
01:01:21
Speaker
Yes, but I got to hit him in the process. So it all works out for me. Exactly. It's how it was when we play wrestling games. I would run in, like hit the guy. He's like mid suplex of you.
01:01:32
Speaker
Like I'm saving you. You're like, oh, stop saving me. I like fall on a chair that's in the ringer. Yeah, exactly. I think it was worse. Yeah, I learned for the best.
01:01:45
Speaker
We get some quite fun match graphics showing the words World TV title on a tombstone, above which are Regal, Plester William, and Bulldog's pictures in coffin frames in front of a haunted house.
01:01:57
Speaker
Some good emphasis of theme all throughout the show this time. I appreciate that. They haven't made the gimmick just for the introduction like they do some years. so Absolutely, yeah. Bulldog is out first with his terrific Union Jack cape.
01:02:10
Speaker
It's so sparkly. It is. Tony notes that Lord Stephen Regal refers to Bulldog as a commoner, and Jesse says that's because he is. He's down with the street cleaners and Jack the Ripper.
01:02:21
Speaker
It's amazing that those were the first two things that came to mind. Also, all lore points to Declan being you know ah member of high society, perhaps a doctor. I guess maybe because he did his work, o you know, out there.
01:02:35
Speaker
I suppose so.
01:02:38
Speaker
Regal's next let out by Sir William. Regal also has his quite nice cape. I really like his. It's less sparkly, but it's really cool. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jesse name-drops a little girl in Minnesota whose favorite wrestler is the British Bulldog.
01:02:52
Speaker
wonder if that was a relative or something. It's a cute moment. Most likely, yeah. A guy in the crowd holds up a sign stating that New Orleans welcomes Halloween Havoc 1993. in which the letter E in welcomes is inserted from above in quotation marks for some reason, and the N in Halloween is on the next line for the rest of the word, as not enough space was left, and 93 is in quotation marks for some reason.
01:03:15
Speaker
Kind of sort of feels like you maybe should have taken that as your first draft and tried again, buddy. Those boards are very expensive, though. can flip it to the other side. You've got two sides.
01:03:26
Speaker
That's true. Mm-hmm. Michael Buffer gives us our ring introductions, speaking of expensive, calling this the Battle of Britain. Regal grimaces at Bulldog throughout.
01:03:39
Speaker
Regal initially complains about even touching Bulldog. They fight over a wrist lock in every single way it is possible to do so, including an amazing Bulldog breakdancing spin reversal, a Bulldog front flip free of a throw, and dueling cartwheels Bulldog first, Regal second, with Bulldog punishing Regal with a monkey flip.
01:03:59
Speaker
Regal moves to other holds, a chin lock, armbar, and cravat, but Bulldog whips him into another monkey flip, but they don't get the full flip. No. It still looks fine, but it's just not quite what they wanted. Regal kind of goes up and down.
01:04:11
Speaker
Yeah. and He doesn't go forward and away, Yeah. yeah Five minutes have gone by. Bulldog locks in a Mexican surfboard hold. It takes a while, but it looks great.
01:04:22
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But breaks it to glare at a protesting Sir William, so Regal nails him from behind. Bulldog flying body press for two, but Regal counters a charge with a hard knee strike for two and earns more two counts with a Regal roll and a corner whip into a stomp, in between wrenching hard on Bulldog's neck and landing hard strikes.
01:04:43
Speaker
He calls Bulldog swine, and his veterinary school must not have been accredited either. guess not. Bulldog sunset flip for two, but Regal knee drops him for two, then locks on a cool sideways arm and chest hold. It's Kind of like a horizontal bear hug, but better than that sounds.
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, I can picture that. Five minutes remain. Bulldog drums the mat with his foot to get the crowd clapping as Sir William tries to shush them. Four minutes. Bulldog elbows free, but Regal catches him with a knee strike and locks on a half-Nelson, tying the legs up too.
01:05:19
Speaker
Three minutes. Bulldog to his feet, with Regal on his shoulders. But Regal slugs free, trips him, and pins for two. Half Nelson cross-faced by Regal.
01:05:30
Speaker
Two minutes. More annoying noisemaker. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bulldog lifts Regal again, but Regal escapes over the ropes, clubs him, and gets repeated two counts off stomps.
01:05:42
Speaker
But Bulldog kips up and does a crazy roll and flip for two. One minute. Bulldog pours it on. Clothesline. Suplex. Regal tries to escape, but Bulldog catches him.
01:05:54
Speaker
Sir William tries to interfere, but Bulldog knocks him off the apron with Regal's legs, then hits a charging body slam for two. Bulldog is shocked. Fifteen seconds.
01:06:06
Speaker
Bulldog pile driver, and Anderson vaults over to count one, two, and the bell rings, halting the count. Anderson double-checks that time ran out and declares it a draw.
01:06:18
Speaker
Buffer announces that Regal keeps the belt, and the crowd boos huge. Tony says the Bulldog did a great job, and there will be another day for him.
01:06:29
Speaker
Exceptional timing by all three guys on that ending, especially Randy Anderson, who, more than any of them, had to get exactly the right speed for everything he was doing to have his last count be halfway down but not actually strike as the bell rings.
01:06:42
Speaker
They're counting down live during that, too, so it's not like they can just change up the timing too easily. I love when they do gutsy time limit draws that have to be perfectly timed and it and make it work for this belt.
01:06:53
Speaker
Yeah. Thoughts on this one? thought was a really good match. The one thing it really did well was highlight Boltman's strengths and hide the weaknesses. Mm-hmm. Bulldog could do really impressive power moves and surprise acrobatics. And he when he's really motivated in the right headspace, he's a really good technical wrestler.
01:07:14
Speaker
Yes. You can see flashes that throughout his career in various companies. His downside is that he's larger size and conditionally not being as great as time goes on.
01:07:25
Speaker
He couldn't do that for long periods of time. Right. So they wisely have him work really strong in the beginning and then get worked over for quite a while by Regal, which also works in the time limit aspect because he's really trying to just eat up time.
01:07:37
Speaker
He's almost not trying to beat Bulldog. He's trying to last till the match is over and then just leave and never face him again. yeah I think Tony points that out explicitly mid-match when Ligrego locks on one of his longer holds and he says, oh, I can tell he's running out the clock here. He's not trying to do this to win. He's trying to get to the time limit.
01:07:55
Speaker
Exactly. I thought they did a really good job with that aspect of it. Regal finding little ways to counter and just survive as the flurry starts and in the last few minutes was nice. It was an interesting choice to have Bulldog not get the win with his, what was the delus point, his main finish, though.
01:08:12
Speaker
Like, his running power slam was like his, that's his finish. So it's interesting that they didn't have that be the finish. I have heard that that was an error. Oh, interesting. Like, third hand, so take it for what you will. But Conrad, on what happened when, says that Meltzer reported that that was a mistake where the timekeeper gave them the wrong time left in the match.
01:08:35
Speaker
oh And then they started the live countdown, so they had to go with the live countdown. Oh, interesting. And so Regal has to kick out, and then they improvise the Piledriver finish, which, if if so, makes that Piledriver finish timing even more impressive, because they're kind of all timing that out themselves.
01:08:53
Speaker
Yeah. Like you said, it feels weird that Bulldog doesn't win or get cut off on the running power slam, because that is what he tends to use. Yeah. it It would make sense that that would be where the ending was supposed to be.
01:09:06
Speaker
Yeah, I would have thought like Sir William grabs Regal's legs as he goes to move and like pulls him out of the hold or just stop the hold, his momentum going forward by holding the feet or something like that.
01:09:16
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I will say the only kind of giveaway that they're trying to get the time right with the pile driver is that he gets them up for the pile driver and kind of stalls for a couple of seconds. Yes. It doesn't look like he's put his hand up to check the watch or anything.
01:09:30
Speaker
and You can definitely think that, oh, he's just sort like bracing himself, but he definitely holds it longer than most people. Even Jerry Lawler is like, come on, speed it up.
01:09:39
Speaker
But again, it's a great case of them using the whole gimmick of this title, which is fight to the time limit. They have to beat the champion. Part of the timing that's interesting about how it works is that Randy Anderson has to do his little dramatic jump over the pile of people to count the pin.
01:09:55
Speaker
If he had just got down the ground where he was, we have new TV champion. Though where he was was on the wrong side to see. i know. Rico kicked out. But yeah. It's funny. The time is so precious. He stopped to do a little vault and land and then do his count.
01:10:10
Speaker
Yeah, I thought this was a great match. They really varied the action in this one, which the commentary team did an excellent job of highlighting. The first portion of the match is heavily focused on holds, honestly mostly on one hold, a wrist lock, but it turns that into an exciting and deeply technical exploration of everything you can possibly do with a wrist lock, including various tricks, acrobatics, and a ton of strategy.
01:10:33
Speaker
The match gradually moves into more varied throws and holds and striking before becoming a regal-led submission clinic, and then finally moving into Bulldog's more traditional power exhibition just in time for the comeback at the end.
01:10:45
Speaker
It's truly impressive how many different things they packed into 15 minutes here, all of which are performed with a lot of thought for the specifics and the reasons that the two would do every move. Plus, there's loads of character work mixed in and great crowd involvement.
01:10:58
Speaker
A time limit draw is easily forgivable for a TV title match, especially when it's put together as perfectly as it is here. They planned it well, got the timing just right. An excellent match that proved both guys exceptional talents.
01:11:12
Speaker
Bulldog would, like, prevent everyone in the roster except, like, one guy would end being a big and battle bull. However, that also be his last WCW show, because as we talked about, I believe, before probably back when did Stargate 93, he was released by WCW to do legal stuff about him outside the ring.
British Bulldog's Bar Fight and UK Wrestling Return
01:11:29
Speaker
Short version is he got in a fight with a guy and a bar, i believe is the story I read. And the guy got hurt because, you know, the British bullet was gigantic and certainly powerful. So as things got worse, like, yeah, we kind of can't have you on the roster because of we don't know how this is going to go. so i kind of get it. But it's an unfortunate way for his career there to end, albeit for like three, four years. He guys he comes back post Montreal.
01:11:53
Speaker
Yeah. He would go right from WCW to wrestle in his native UK. He wrestled a lot of people he recognized, including Finley again. But he also would wrestle Paige's dad.
01:12:05
Speaker
Just that was interesting. Because Paige's whole wrestling family is all wrestlers. Her brother or her father. sorry, sorry. Okay, that makes more sense now. Paige from the w WWE, not Diamond Dallas Paige. No, no. Oh, yeah. actually but Yeah, no.
01:12:19
Speaker
Paige slash Shariah. Yeah, she's there. I forgot forgot this is like there's other Paige, but yeah.
01:12:27
Speaker
Well, that's that's cool. A nice little nice little tidbit there. I can picture on Bulldog matches with Finley as well. That would probably be quite interesting. yeah Absolutely. Yeah. Again, two two styles that are, I think, somewhat different from each other, but would probably work quite well together.
01:12:40
Speaker
Yeah, Finley being much more grounded and striking definitely work. You know, you get Bulldog down, you can work him over. Still with holes, but obviously more striking holes and just straight holes like Rego did here. Yeah, yeah. yeah i could I could almost see it being ah an interesting case where if you wanted to make Bulldog the heel, if it'd be like Finley trying to find a way to make his strikes work against the guy that size.
01:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Could be a a cool story. I can picture a lot of ways that that match would be interesting. yeah If I could find any footage of it, I'll see if I can post it through our social media.
Vader's Wheel Spin and Match Type Confusion
01:13:13
Speaker
Tony introduces this show's spin the wheel, make the deal segment as Vader's theme hits. Hopefully they planned this one out a little better than last year, which is to say at all. Bischoff stands by the redesigned wheel. I still can't believe they spent even more money on this thing and brings over Vader and Harley race race tells Vader to give it a spin.
01:13:34
Speaker
Vader spins, manually this time, no leper or stagehand has to run out and plug in. Pyrotechnics and fireworks go off to waste even more money on this segment. Goodness. It comes to rest on the Texas Deathmatch.
01:13:48
Speaker
Now to note, the wheel design makes that all kinds of awkward to spot, as apparently the actual indicator is a small knife to the right that blends in with the color of the wheel, while the much more obvious pointer is the extended V in the Halloween Havoc logo on top.
01:14:03
Speaker
which the eye is much more naturally drawn to and which is pointing at Texas bull rope. Yes. I'm glad that wasn wasn't just me that had that problem. Yeah. You can even almost catch the cameraman briefly heading towards the top of the wheel before he catches himself and goes to the right.
01:14:17
Speaker
It's just like a weird slight sway in it that I think was him being briefly mistaken as well. I can't believe that's not the pointer because it's actually such a great design concept.
01:14:27
Speaker
Yeah. I was like, that's cool. They made the V the pointer. That makes a lot of sense. And then it's like, oh, it's not? What? Yeah. Yeah. It's a plastic knife that Vader slaps to start to spin the wheel, and you can see it wobble.
01:14:40
Speaker
Yes. That thing shakes all over the place. Genuinely surprised it didn't come off. Yeah, it's true. The stopping of the wheel is less blatantly suspicious than last year anyway. Yeah.
01:14:52
Speaker
As it slows down gradually, but I still would imagine that it was gimmicked. Vader reacts with excitement and says something growly, and Bischoff sends us back to the ring. Bad wheel design aside, they thought through how to present this better than last year, and it's a smoother segment overall.
01:15:10
Speaker
Vader was clearly actually told how to react, and there's no awkward moments or weird pauses, and the entire thing feels quicker and tighter. It's still a strange concept that didn't really need to be repeated, but I appreciate that they at least did a better job with the segment than last time.
01:15:24
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. I still would have liked an actual promo from Vader afterwards, though. Yeah, even Race, speaking on behalf of Bigot as well, yeah. For a second year in a row, we managed to avoid them ending up on the Prince of Darkness match.
01:15:38
Speaker
Now, I would assume based on the name that the Prince of Darkness match is a match where you two have to wrestle while resisting the power of concentrated evil in the basement. I mean, it's that or a blindfold match.
01:15:50
Speaker
I know which one I'd rather watch.
01:15:53
Speaker
I know this is like the last of two times they do this gimmick type and then the segment, but I wish there was some consistency. Halloween Havoc 92, Sting comes out. Sting, the face in the match, comes out and spins the wheel, or pulls the lever that spins the wheel by proxy.
01:16:08
Speaker
But this time, Vader, who is the heel, comes out and actually spins the wheel. Yeah. It's an odd thing. Also, statistically, it's funny that, like said, we have two possible pointers, one being the V and one being the actual pointer.
01:16:22
Speaker
And of all the matches, it's both matches that have Texas in the name. That's true. That's true. There's like 12 matches and they tell Nesley point to the two matches that have Texas in them.
01:16:34
Speaker
it's It's amazing.
01:16:37
Speaker
So
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin: A Heated Rivalry
01:16:38
Speaker
our fourth match is The Natural Dustin Rhodes versus Stunning Steve Austin for Rhodes' WCW United States Heavyweight Championship. The referee for this one is Nick Patrick.
01:16:49
Speaker
This is another battle in the long-running feud between Dustin Rhodes and Steve Austin. We previously saw Austin stub in stubin as a tag partner to wrestle against Dustin Rhodes for the tag titles.
01:17:00
Speaker
That was amazing. Absolutely. This time is Austin as a solo star going after Dustin Rhodes' US title. Fittingly, in very recent history, in like the last couple of weeks, Dustin Rose just won a singles mid-card title similar to the US title in AEW, where he currently wrestles.
01:17:18
Speaker
Okay. It's like right before we cover this match, he wins the TNT title, which is essentially the US title as far as ranking on the card goes. Gotcha. See if he still has the title win by the time I release this episode.
01:17:31
Speaker
That's true. It also speaks his longevity as a wrestler because this show is 1993 and he's still winning titles in 2025. Yeah, yeah. Dustin has had quite a career. Absolutely.
01:17:43
Speaker
As we get the graveyard match graphic again, Tony asked Jesse for his thoughts on the Texas death match between Vader and Cactus Jack. Jesse gives a somewhat tortured reference to The Price is Right by way of joking that they'll find out if The Price is Right for Vader and Cactus.
01:17:59
Speaker
Not his best work. No. Austin is out first to Jake Roberts theme from last year. Tony mentions Colonel Parker saying that he got Austin this title shot, but Parker doesn't appear to have accompanied him.
01:18:13
Speaker
Rhodes is out next in a great glittery jacket to The Natural, and all is right with the world. Mm-hmm. There's a shot of someone in a monster mask in the crowd, and Jesse asks Tony what his wife's doing there.
01:18:25
Speaker
Tony gives a nervous chuckle, and I'll call that reaction digging your own grave. Mm-hmm.
01:18:32
Speaker
Michael Buffer gives the reintroductions again. Rhodes gets a pretty massive cheer. The crowd is actually pretty hot for this show. They may not have filled the arena, but they got a loud crowd for it.
01:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, fair play. They circle tentatively until Austin slaps Rhodes twice. Rhodes chases him and Austin flees, but Rhodes wisely doesn't follow outside.
01:18:56
Speaker
Austin taunts the crowd to do something about it if they don't like it. Back in, Rhodes counters a Boston crab by flipping Austin. Austin narrowly dodges a revenge slap and cowers in the corner.
01:19:09
Speaker
Austin backs off a test of strength, but lands several hard blows and some closed fist punches. Rhodes returns fire, and Jesse claims he went to close fist first. Patrick repeatedly warns both guys.
01:19:21
Speaker
Austin whips Rhodes to the corner, but Rhodes dodges the jumping knee, and Austin hits his knee on the turnbuckle and spills out over the ropes to the floor. Austin writhes and clutches at his knee, and Tony and Jesse agree that they don't want the match to end like this.
01:19:36
Speaker
Tony, however, thinks Austin might be faking like Pillman often does. Austin eventually gets back in, and Rhodes aggressively works the leg with kicks, a shinbreaker, a knee drop, and an ankle hold, earning a one count when Austin collapses.
01:19:51
Speaker
Austin makes the ropes and Rhodes breaks, but goes for the leg again. But Austin pokes his eyes, then listens to Patrick's lecture while sneaking in a kick to Rhodes' crotch for good measure. Very smooth there, I have to say.
01:20:05
Speaker
Jesse's sure it was an accident. Austin keeps selling the leg really well as he beats Rhodes up, including making sure to use the good knee for a knee drop for two, then again later when he predicts a Rhodes counter and uses the momentum to go up in the corner for another knee drop for two.
01:20:21
Speaker
Rhodes wins a slugfest and builds to his flying clothesline for two, then tries the bulldog, but Austin counters by crotching him on the top turnbuckle and lays in strikes. Rhodes slumps over, and Patrick frees him as Austin films.
01:20:34
Speaker
Austin catches Patrick's hand with a kick while Patrick was checking on Rhodes, and Patrick glares at him. Rhodes gets the crowd cheering for him. Sadly, that includes the noisemaker.
01:20:46
Speaker
Two counts off a Rhodes roll-up, Rhodes cradle, Rhodes punching counter to the stun gun, and Austin kick out into a counter pin. Austin tricks Rhodes into a takedown and pins him with his feet on the ropes for the three count and... not the win, as Patrick saw him using the ropes and signals the match isn't over.
01:21:05
Speaker
Austin is too occupied looking for the title belt to listen, so Rhodes rolls him up from behind for the three count and the win. On the bright side for Austin, he does find the belt after the match and delivers it to Rhodes face first.
01:21:17
Speaker
How considerate. Yeah, exactly. Austin takes the belt with him as he leaves. Shockingly, a member of the Rhodes family is now bleeding on the wrestling show. That is surprising.
01:21:30
Speaker
Jesse questions repeatedly why Patrick counted three if he saw the foot on the ropes. it's It's a fair question, but I mean, he might have noticed literally as the hand came down, right? Yeah.
01:21:42
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? I thought this was really enjoyable match. Obviously, these two are great together. We've covered couple times now. So it's not a surprise to see them deliver, but it's always a good thing to see.
01:21:55
Speaker
Even when you're expecting two to it to work work together, having a great match is always a great match. Yeah. Besides that, just the good story to it, because you have two very strong characters opposed to each other, which similar enough styles that they can work together well, but the personalities are so different.
01:22:14
Speaker
The way they use their moves and the way they interact with the crowd that, again, it just really makes you want to root for Dustin and really not want to root for Austin. Austin is such a spoiled brat in this match. It's great.
01:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. But at the same time, he's so good that you're like, man, I hate that guy. Like you hate him, but you respect him kind of thing. Yes. Yeah. He might just very well. This one I thought had a really nice flow of action.
01:22:40
Speaker
Other matches,
Tag Team Match Dynamics and Outcomes
01:22:41
Speaker
while they've been good, they might have a clear like start point for you know the face being controlled and the heel being controlled or vice versa. This one I thought had a really even back and forth effect to it. Obviously, you'd have some smaller bit for one guy with control for longer portions, but it was never like a hard cutoff. Here's the face in peril section now, which I liked.
01:23:02
Speaker
It's surprising that of all people, Nick Patrick would mess up a pinfall on a major pay-per-view like this.
01:23:10
Speaker
it's It's just so surprising, especially again on the same show where he saw miss multiple interferences.
01:23:18
Speaker
It's a really good match that mostly cuts to the finish and everything plays out. It really makes you want to see more, which is what a match like this really should do. Yeah, what a surprise. Dustin Rhodes and Steve Austin have a match together and it's really good.
01:23:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's genuinely one of the best feuds of the early 1990s. These two never disappoint on a show. By this point, they have over two years' experience fighting with each other, and they put that history into this match in full, with each countering each other's big moves expertly, innovating new surprises based on predictions of what the other will do, nicely pointed out by commentary, and showcasing the anger and frustration that they felt at each other over the years, with some very hard strikes and the refusal to give the other a moment's rest.
01:24:01
Speaker
this match feels right for the feud that these two have had. Mm-hmm. I think you you hit the nail on the head there. that there's In other match, you can see kind of like the dividing lines between segments.
01:24:12
Speaker
Yeah. like The Bulldog match, as we pointed out, is is a terrific match, but you can definitely tell, like here's the introduction. Now here's Bulldog's portion. Now here's Regal's portion. Now here's Bulldog's portion again.
01:24:23
Speaker
Exactly. In this match, it's much more of a just like fluid back and forth. The situation's constantly changing. It feels very, very natural and real. Yeah. I think the only thing that does let it down a little bit is the ending.
01:24:36
Speaker
It's performed just fine. No one really screws up or anything, but it's just kind of an awkward finish. It never really feels right to me for a face to take advantage of someone who legitimately thinks that the match is over.
01:24:47
Speaker
I could see that, yeah. Though, to be fair to Dustin on this one, Austin did just try to cheat big time, so you can really sell it that Rhodes is probably just crazy ticked off at Yeah.
01:24:59
Speaker
It's an excellent match. It's just kind of a dull ending, disappointing ending. Yeah, there's a common theme in this show of a match being strong to various degrees, but then something about where the way the finish plays out lets it down a little bit. Yes.
01:25:13
Speaker
For me, this isn't as bad as other the ones we've had before and ones we'll see later. I would agree. Like this is a relatively minor quibble. It's just one of those like, oh, I don't know if you had to overcomplicate it quite as much as you did, but.
01:25:25
Speaker
Agreed, yes. It works okay. Mm-hmm.
01:25:29
Speaker
Obviously, both men would be involved in Battle Bowl. However, random drawings and all that, they don't actually fight in the initial portion of Battle Bowl. But of course, you know they're going to cross paths in the main event, as it were, Battle Bowl.
01:25:42
Speaker
It, of course, also leads to a rematch between the two at Starcade, which, given the ending, obviously that was going to happen. you know You don't have the heel attack the face, hit him with their own belt, leave bleeding, and go, well, see you later. don't want to fight you anymore. Steal the belt, for a good measure, yeah. Exactly, yeah.
01:25:59
Speaker
They would interesting thing where Austin would join up with Colonel Robert Parker as his manager, but then lead to a feud with Brian Pillman, who, even though he was a heel when they were together, he's now face because Austin is fighting against Pillman didn't say, oh I feel bad about a all the things I did as a Hollywood blonde, but now he's fighting Austin, so he's a face.
01:26:21
Speaker
Just classic Greg's wrestling tradition. You're just the kind a kind of face by proxy.
01:26:28
Speaker
Speaking of Battle Bull... Tony talks up the next pay-per-view, Battle Bowl. Ah, just what I needed a reminder that we still have one more of those to cover. I know, I know.
01:26:39
Speaker
least they did do that Starrcade again in 1993, I guess. That's true. Honestly, if they had, we might have given up on our show midway through that first series. That would have been four tag tournament shows in a row.
01:26:51
Speaker
oh yeah, true, yeah. We already had three. That may have killed me. I could see that, yeah.
01:27:00
Speaker
Tony and Jesse talk about Bagwell and Two Cold Scorpios title win the previous night. Well, it was actually taped earlier and aired on the previous night, but, you know, in the show's reality app in the previous night.
01:27:11
Speaker
Correct. Showing footage of the win in which Sags of the Nasty Boys has a chance to pin Bagwell, but pulls him up. Sags lifts him for a slam, waiting for Missy Hyatt to enter with a chair. But Teddy Long stops Hyatt and Scorpio leaps off the top rope to knock Sags down, Bagwell on top for the three count of the win.
01:27:28
Speaker
It looks like it got a pretty good reaction from the live crowd at the time. Yeah. Jesse heavily criticizes Sags for that error, noting that you can always beat the guy up more after the match, but you should always win the match if you have the chance.
01:27:41
Speaker
He also criticizes Tony's feather boa, and Tony does an impersonation of his voice in response, stunning Jesse. Nice. So our fifth match is the Nasty Boys, Jerry Sags and Brian Knobs with Missy Hyatt versus Marcus Alexander Bagwell and Too Cold Scorpio with Teddy Long for Bagwell and Scorpio's WCW World Tag Team Championship.
01:28:04
Speaker
The referee
Sid Vicious vs. Sting: Franchise Clash
01:28:05
Speaker
for this one is Randy Anderson. So as we hinted at earlier, talking about the whole WCW International thing, and as we'll talk about with the actual Flair Rude match, we had the second and final break between WCW and the NWA, which was interesting situation where the Nasty Boys, who won the tag titles in mid-September, according the taping schedule, are the final team to hold both belts and then go to just being the WCW Tag Champions going forward.
01:28:34
Speaker
Ah, gotcha. So, less belts to take through airport security, which I'm sure they appreciated. I'm sure they get enough attention going through the airport as it is at this era. That's true. They are kind of one of those groups of people that you see them in the airport and you're like, well, that's a pro wrestler.
01:28:52
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. Like Road Warrior Animal. 100%, yes. hundred percent yeah
01:28:58
Speaker
A mini feud would go on between the Champions Nasty Boys and the fairly new tag team of Bagwell and Tuchel Scorpio. Bagwell and Scorpio are the young, fresh tag team.
01:29:09
Speaker
like i think they're on the second year of Bagwell as the rookie of the year. think they really held out way too long. me It's the second year, man. He's not the rookie of the year again. but one You get one year of rookie of the year. That's it.
01:29:22
Speaker
It's a hard cutoff, man. But yeah, there would be a few between those guys on WCB Saturday night. Basically, the new team would beat them in non-title match. That would embarrass the champs, and they agree to a title match, which in storyline takes place the Saturday day before the show, where, as you mentioned, they lose the titles.
01:29:41
Speaker
So they're invoking their immediate rematch clause. Very immediate rematch clause. Yeah, exactly. We get the nice title match graphic again. and Hyatt leads the Nasty Boys out, and Nobbs proclaims it's time to take back the belt.
01:29:58
Speaker
Bagwell, Scorpio, and Long come out to Scorpio's theme, dressed in Halloween orange and black. They do their stereo entrance and a little dance. Scorpio is significantly better at his solo dance part.
01:30:09
Speaker
100%, yeah. Michael Buffer is back for a third match. Goodness, he must have gotten quite a paycheck for this one. Mm-hmm. I don't think I've ever noticed this before, but the Nasties each have arm tattoos.
01:30:22
Speaker
Nobzis says Nobz, but Sagzis just says Sag. Yeah. It's missing the last S. Well, he's a member of Sag. That's why. You know I remember all the great dramatic films that he was he was in. Yeah.
01:30:37
Speaker
you You didn't see him during the Sag strike on the picket lines? No. Oh, no, I did not. Surprising. Must have been back in the crowd a bit. That's all. You know? Yeah. get in he He usually stands out in a crowd of people, especially writers. Yeah.
01:30:51
Speaker
Though actually, k Nob's, his tattoo only has one bee instead of two. So, don't know, there must be some kind of story to those, but who knows what those do.
01:31:02
Speaker
Buffer also introduces Hyatt on the Nasties' side, but doesn't introduce Long on the Bagwell and Scorpio side. Tony quickly notes that they're accompanied by Teddy Long, perhaps having noticed the omission. The Nasties take the belts, so Bagwell and Scorpio attack, take them back, and use them to knock the Nasties flat.
01:31:20
Speaker
The Nasties roll out, and the Champs pose. Then Bagwell goes and just forcibly kisses Hyatt, which is something of a theme at this time and is not acceptable. No. The crowd even gives it a woomp-there-it-is chant, which, no.
01:31:33
Speaker
Just no. Something was there, but not not that. Yeah. We start with Sags and Bagwell. Sags and Nobs trade off landing heavy strikes against Bagwell, but Bagwell slides under a double big boot and hits a dropkick to both simultaneously, then tricks them into charging into a Scorpio crossbody to both.
01:31:51
Speaker
Bagwell and Scorpio clothesline Sags and Nobs out over the top rope for another woomp-there-it-is chant that's more acceptably timed. Hyatt checks on the Nasties, but flees as Scorpio leaps off Bagwell's back to dive out onto the Nasties.
01:32:05
Speaker
Bagwell and Scorpio trade off against Nobbs, then Sags, earning two with a Scorpio rolling pin, a double-team diving shoulder block, Bagwell-Thez press, and double-team hip toss and elbow.
01:32:17
Speaker
Scorpio hits a rebound crossbody off a whip. He slips off the top rope, but recovers and completes the move off the second, which is almost more impressive. Yeah, that's true. He works an arm bar, but Sags grinds an elbow into his face, so Scorpio calls him a son of ah loud and clear.
01:32:35
Speaker
Tony ironically chooses that moment to praise WCW adding microphones in the ring to capture more of the sound. I'm not sure he actually heard what was said. Probably not. Yeah.
01:32:46
Speaker
Scorpio tags Bagwell, but Bagwell gets caught in the nasties corner and beaten down by both nasties. The nasties use Scorpio's protest to lift and throw Bagwell out to the floor, and knobs further distracts Anderson so Hyatt can slap Bagwell hard.
01:33:01
Speaker
Bagwell angrily crawls after her, but Sag suplexes him on the floor. Back in, the Nasties trade off against Bagwell and earn two counts with a quite nice Nob's suplex, a Sag slam and leg drop, a Sag's elbow drop, including grinding the elbow into the back, a Nob's double axe handle, and Sag's charging clothesline, also using Scorpio to distract Anderson, who misses a switch without a tag that stops a Bagwell comeback.
01:33:26
Speaker
k Nob's, unfortunately, does a bear hug at one point, but at least it's elevated. Mm-hmm. Bagwell finally stuns Nobbs with a vaulting takedown by the hair, but Sags gets in without a tag, and Anderson misses Bagwell's tag trying to deal with that, so sends Scorpio back out as Sags whips Nobbs at Bagwell.
01:33:44
Speaker
But Bagwell dodges, Nobbs eats Turnbuckle, and Bagwell jumping clothesline Sags and makes the tag for real. Scorpio runs wild with rapid kicks, a drop kick, and some jumping spin kicks, then hits a top rope moonsault to Nobbs for one, breaking to dodge a Sags elbow drop so Sags hits Nobbs.
01:34:01
Speaker
everybody into brawl, and Hyatt gets on the apron, so Long gets up to deal with her, so Sags grabs Long, so Bagwell hits Sags, who knocks Long to the floor. It's like a complex equation here. Yeah, a Rube Goldberg spot here.
01:34:15
Speaker
Yes. Bagwell double noggin knockers Hyatt and Sags, while Scorpio hits his.450 splash on Nobbs, but while Anderson is showing Bagwell out, Sags slips his boot off and clobbers Scorpio with that most deadly of weapons.
01:34:30
Speaker
and Nobbs slumps on top for the three count and the win as Bagwell is a second too late to save. Nobbs helps Hyatt walk as Sags takes both title belts, and we get a replay of Hyatt's fall and the 450 in ending.
01:34:44
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? I thought it a pretty enjoyable match all around. It's a case where they don't do too much to really distinguish it or really innovate the tag formula. they All the stuff you expect, the fake-out tag, all the usual shortcuts and chicanery, all that kind of thing.
01:35:02
Speaker
That said, it helps that you have someone who is very expressive, even he's not the most talented wrestler in Bagwell. And you have someone who is very talented Tukul Scorpio.
01:35:14
Speaker
So when the comebacks and like
Flair vs. Rude: Character Work and Wrestling Skills
01:35:15
Speaker
the hope spots are really excited to watch, it's a more interesting comeback because he's just wanting to watch, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Scorpio's style is different from every other performer in the match.
01:35:26
Speaker
So when he comes in at the end, it's this very big like, oh, that's different moment, which is nice. It definitely made the right choice having Bagwell a face in peril, even if I'm not as big as fan of his work.
01:35:39
Speaker
And obviously you you like him less and less the more he starts wearing that hat. Yes, especially him as a sort of lovable, pure white me baby face at this point works really well to get beaten up by the nasty boys in the storyline.
01:35:54
Speaker
As you said, he's very expressive. Yes. He puts that to good use in this match, actually. It's rare for me to compliment Bagwell much, but but um I think he does a genuinely nice job in this match, yeah. Yeah.
01:36:05
Speaker
I would not have liked this match if they reversed If it was Scorpio being worked all time for Bagwell's finish, it would not have been the same effect. I don't think so, no, yeah. It would have been bad, obviously. It was not going to be terrible, but they did the right choice here with this combination, I'd say.
01:36:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm, yeah. yeah was think that If you've seen enough tag matches, you can predict all the stuff going to happen. It's not elevated in the sense of what the story itself is. It's elevated by Scorpio, how he moves around his big moves like that.
01:36:35
Speaker
As you try explain, the fish is very busy by multiple people coming up on the apron and then strikings and all these things happening. If Sags had just run over and kicked Scorpion in the face one time, would that have knocked him out?
01:36:47
Speaker
I'm going say no. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that never get about the stupid boot spot is like, how does that hurt worse? Yeah. Than roundhouse kick to the face or something like that, where you have more weight, presumably in the object.
01:37:04
Speaker
Yeah, especially a lot on the ground like that. You just run up and boot a guy in the face, like legit, it's gonna hurt. Yeah, the Randy Orton punt, basically. This is sold as like that.
01:37:14
Speaker
Yeah. But the Randy Orton punt has, you know, the full weight of Randy Orton's leg in that boot, where this is an empty boot. I'm sure it would hurt. Sure. Yeah, that's not going to feel good. You're going to get c clonked on the head and go, ow. Yeah. But unless you are saying that there's like a steel block in there that he somehow slipped in, which they clearly are not. No, I don't get this repeated use of if I take the boot off, it hurts worse.
01:37:41
Speaker
Yeah. Would make sure you wonder why you bother wearing the boots to just take them off and swing them like weapons. Yeah. Should be a boot fighting style. That's a legal part of wrestling or something. I don't know. Yeah. Like the the thing with that one Duggan match where you're allowed to tape your fists and punch each other.
01:37:55
Speaker
No one wears shoes and just take your boots off to get a match and whoever gets them most wins. Yeah. It's also a little strange to me. I know it has to be for the finish. Nobs takes the 450 and Sags runs and hits him with the boot.
01:38:08
Speaker
But I don't think the Sags actually pull him over like for the pin. Not that I noticed. No, I think Nobs is just conscious enough to slump over on top. You'd think that Sags would have bothered to make it a little bit more certain as well. But just I'm like, i'll I'll roll you on there, buddy.
01:38:21
Speaker
Yeah. So the way it plays out is that Nobbs is hit by a 450, but because he has a second or two of Scorpio being dead weight after the move, he's recovered enough to roll him over on his own and pin him.
01:38:32
Speaker
Yeah. He's selling like he's knocked out, which I get, but you weren't knocked out when you rolled him over a minute ago, were you? They're just like a couple of parts away from this being like a really good and clever finishing sequence for me.
01:38:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Opening bit that I've already criticized aside, this was a perfectly fine tag match. It's very much the standard formula, but it does it well. The Nasties work well as big bullies here, landing some pretty brutal shots and clearly taking their earlier loss to this team personally, and have a few nice double team moments.
01:39:04
Speaker
Bagwell does fine as face in peril and generally fights back just enough to make it clear he's not down yet. Scorpio is in this match less than I expected, but when he was in there, he pulled out some quite exciting moves that highlighted the contrast between his acrobatic style and the nasties, big burly power style.
01:39:19
Speaker
hmm. The ending, as you said, Al, is quite busy, and I also don't get how a boot that hits you with less weight in it is a knockout blow, and it's deeply strange to have the Bagwell Scorpio team win the titles the night before, well, in air date anyway, then just lose them right back at the pay-per-view.
01:39:36
Speaker
Yeah. The story of this match is basically, can Bagwell and Scorpio prove they deserve to be champions? And the answer is no. Yeah. It really was just a fluke is what you come out of this thinking.
01:39:48
Speaker
And obviously they throw a lot in that finish, so it's not like they lose clean. But yeah, they definitely do just lose and kayfabe the day after they won the titles. And that I think is what people are going to remember coming out of it is not necessarily so much how they lost, but just that ha these guys had a one day title reign.
01:40:04
Speaker
Yeah, it really would have made more sense with this feud they were going for to have the non-title win happen on WCB Saturday night to prove that Bag One School Bro in theory can beat the Nasty Boys.
01:40:16
Speaker
And that's why they get their title shot on this show. Yes. I don't want to take their title right away, but I kind of do in this circumstance. I'd rather give him an actual title right afterwards. Yeah, I think if you had done it as they win the titles here and then we build to like a battle bullet, that they have room for other matches or Clash of Champions or i Clash of Champions or Starrcade or something like that. And that's when you give them a bit of a longer reign and maybe they get to do one or two title defenses before the nasties get in there again.
01:40:44
Speaker
Then I think that... devalues them less it does yeah it it really feels like it hurts this team having that quick of a uh rain i think obviously it's not the shortest title reign we've ever seen since some people have had negative title reigns but you know that's correct yeah
01:41:02
Speaker
Honestly, I came into this one with a bit of trepidation because this is like two months before that really, really bad and awkward nasties versus Sting and Hawk match at Starrcade 93, which did at least give us the Scorpio Hawks.
01:41:15
Speaker
Yes. But I was expecting this to be really bad. And it was actually ah decent, to even I would say good match. Not complicated, like you said, but it's ah it's a very solid tag match.
01:41:27
Speaker
Mm hmm.
01:41:29
Speaker
Well, I hope you enjoyed Tugo Scorpio's only title reign in WCW history. Wow. That was it. Genuinely a bit surprised there. Like, he's quite a talented performer. Yeah. So I really thought they would have.
01:41:41
Speaker
I could see him in, like, the TV title, for sure. Which is where he was in ECW. Makes sense. When he goes to ECW, they make him ECW TV champion and for quite a while, as I recall. Now, he would avoid the January curse, but he'd be gone in April. So it's not that that much better, but slightly better.
01:41:58
Speaker
At least him and Bagwell get a Starcade match out of this team and his run. Although, as you said, it was a shame that it's not them defending the tag titles at Starcade. Yeah. Instead, they're just another tag team match. It's not for the titles.
01:42:12
Speaker
We cut to Eric Bischoff, who is with Colonel Robert Parker and Sid Vicious. Thanks guys. As you can see, I am here with Colonel Rob Parker and Sid Vicious in just a few moments.
01:42:23
Speaker
The match that everybody's talking about is going to take place. The man they call the franchise. Stepping into the ring with the man who says he rules the world.
01:42:34
Speaker
It's Halloween Havoc time here. A real scary time for you, Steve. What time is it for you, Sid?
01:42:43
Speaker
For you still to wake up from the nightmare that you've been experiencing, it's time for you to step into the room. It's time to face reality. Yeah, some people call me Psycho Sid, but the night at Halloween Havoc,
01:42:59
Speaker
Great timing on the Peacock ad here. It time. Let's go to the ring. Ladies and gentlemen, they follow.
01:43:15
Speaker
great time we on the peacock ad here
01:43:28
Speaker
Eric gives us a let's go to the ring. Isn't waking from a nightmare normally a good thing? and In most cases, yes. Shouldn't he be like, Sting, tonight you'll descend into your worst nightmare.
01:43:41
Speaker
I think the idea that they pitched to him and maybe didn't come out properly in execution in the final draft. No, si Sid screwing up a promo. We're live, pal.
01:43:53
Speaker
But no, I think the idea is that in Sid's mind, like the idea of seeing having to face me is a nightmare scenario for him. He hasn't been sleeping this whole time because he's afraid of fighting me, knowing how bad it'll be.
01:44:06
Speaker
And then I wake up for the nightmare and discover that he actually does have to fight Sid. I think that's the idea. Sting's been been having nightmares about this for months, but now he's going to find out it's actually true.
01:44:18
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. Which is probably how he should have said it. Yeah. Yeah. i I do appreciate, though, that these two managed to do a Halloween-themed promo without ever using the words trick-or-treat.
01:44:29
Speaker
Oh, yeah, true. And I love Sid's, as you have put it in the past, Al, volume range test on your TV kind of delivery. Yes. He's so quiet for most of it, and then suddenly just bellows as loud as he possibly can. I'm sure WSW's sound team loved the guy.
01:44:45
Speaker
but Oh, absolutely, yeah. Somebody had their hand ready on the gain knob on the soundboard, for sure. Yes. Audio levels have been peaked.
01:44:56
Speaker
So our sixth match is Sid Vicious with Colonel Robert Parker versus Sting to see who's the franchise of WCW. The referee for this one is Nick Patrick. So Sid made one of his many returns to the wrestling company, this case being WCW, early in the year, and he would immediately target Sting.
01:45:16
Speaker
They face off in various matches, including one we covered back in episode 55, Beach Blast. He's part of the Masters of the Powerbomb, him and Vader against Sting and David Boy Smith. Yes.
01:45:27
Speaker
Somehow him trying to kill Sting and David Boy with the bomb on that show, listen to that episode for context, is not the peak of the feud. So we've got to go further past this, I guess.
01:45:39
Speaker
It's continued, obviously, through various matches following that. And now the whole crux of it is who's the franchise of the company, who's the main guy. i mean, i obviously love Sid more than you do.
01:45:50
Speaker
It's just in general, guess that's fair statement. But given how Sid has left and come back a little times and Sting hasn't, feel like it's already been answered. Yeah. Even 1993. I don't think you can be the franchise, whatever that means in the company and to begin with.
01:46:06
Speaker
But I don't think you can be the franchise if you... haven't stayed with the company. Yeah. Yeah. So this whole thing is about being the franchise. I mean, you just imagine facing your entire character about someone calling you the franchise?
01:46:19
Speaker
What kind of moron would do that? Who would do that? That's unheard of. Oh, but I bet he hates Ric Flair for undefined reasons. Yes. Look, the way Shane Douglas holds a grudge, it might help us out. You know, he might say bad things about us and get us some publicity.
01:46:35
Speaker
So,
01:46:38
Speaker
Ball's in your court, Shane. Just actively trolling Shane Douglas. Yeah. Oh, God.
01:46:45
Speaker
Sid comes out first. Another sign in the crowd that bears noting, Sid Vicious rules the world, but the I in Vicious is crammed in really tightly between the C and the O, like if, say, the writer forgot the I at first and didn't have the time or material to make a second sign, so just stuck it in there and tried to call it a design aesthetic.
01:47:04
Speaker
Look, my brother that made the Halloween Havoc sign thought it looked great, so I don't what to tell you.
01:47:10
Speaker
Sid gets some real cheers, which is unusual for someone fighting Sting. Sting, however, gets an absolutely massive cheer that blows that away, despite coming out in one of the strangest Sting outfits yet.
01:47:23
Speaker
Green and blue with a bejeweled denim-looking blue jacket with green designs complete with green pockets. It looks very much like he was out of Spangly Coat, so he just grabbed a jacket he had lying around, threw some sparkles and green highlights on it, and ran out of that.
01:47:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's not his best look, for sure. No, no. But he is out to Man Called Sting, so everything is wonderful. That's true. The crowd is so loud for him that you can barely hear the song.
01:47:50
Speaker
We get a shot of an absolutely terrifyingly enthusiastic Sting fan in the front row that screams for him so loud that if this were a 1990s slasher film, that guy would be the psycho killer that became obsessed with Sting and wanted to kill him and take his place.
01:48:03
Speaker
Seriously, watch your back, Sting. but who Speaking of watching your back, Parker yells at Sting, so Sting yells back, which lets Sid attack Sting from behind and club and choke him.
01:48:14
Speaker
But Sting ducks a clothesline, slams Sid, and clotheslines him flat. Stinger call and Sting beats Sid up outside the ring, including briefly in the crowd as the two get swarmed by fans, revealing one of the many reasons that sort of segment is a bad idea.
01:48:29
Speaker
Jesse rightly questions why they weren't counted out and Tony doesn't really have an answer. Back in, Sting gets in the ring, goes back to the apron, climbs up and hits a top rope clothesline for one.
01:48:42
Speaker
Did he forget the spot briefly?
01:48:45
Speaker
Sting has a bad bruise or scrape on his left shoulder. Later, Jesse will try to attribute it to Sid hitting him with a chair, but it's already present. Yeah. As Sting bounces off the ropes, Parker grabs his leg, distracting him so that Sid can grab him and hit a massive choke slam.
01:49:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Sid roars to the crowd for mixed cheers and boos, then beats Sting up, mostly by shoving him hard into the corners, stomping and choking. Parker sneaks in some choking as well, and Sting goes after him, but Sid saves Parker, and while Parker distracts Patrick, hits Sting with the thick cushion of a chair, which I'm sure Sting appreciated, then dumps him on the barricade, which he probably appreciated less.
01:49:25
Speaker
Yeah. More striking from Sid, and a chin lock, but Sting gets the crowd chanting, including psycho Sting fan who yells that Sid sucks. Sting escapes, but Sid catches a crossbody and power slams him for two, then works an incredibly boring bear hug to burn some goodwill.
01:49:42
Speaker
ah Yeah, that's that's fair. Attempting to imply effort by quick toe-stepping, which kind of makes it look like he has to pee. he He might have. don't know. Jesse attributes Sting's back welt to the very padded chair shot around this time as well.
01:49:58
Speaker
Patrick checks the arm, but Sting keeps it up on the third try, to the joy of the annoying noisemaker. Yes. Sting claps the head to get free, and rapidly attacks Sid to a huge reaction.
01:50:09
Speaker
One-handed bulldog, Stinger call, and two Stinger splashes, but Parker gets to the apron. Sting decks him, and Sid basically no-sells the Stinger splashes to spring up and attack, and they grapple on the ropes while Parker tries to help, but somehow mixes up Sting's leg and Sid's, tripping Sid and holding his leg down as Sting falls on top for two.
01:50:29
Speaker
Totally reasonable confusion. It's not like Sting is wearing bright neon green tights or anything. They're both wearing black boots. I don't what else I can say. They are, but Parker's eyes are level with their knees.
01:50:41
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So we should absolutely be able to tell the difference. Listen, the man cannot see killer. That's why he dresses in all white. He thinks he's wearing a really elaborate outfit, but it's just an all white coat.
01:50:52
Speaker
He has a real problem and he doesn't like you shaming him for that. Also can't tell the difference in textures. Yeah, it's a serious condition, man. It really is. Sid does at least give an excellent, irritated reaction and just glare at Parker.
01:51:06
Speaker
But as he then grabs Parker, Sting rolls the distracted sit up from behind like a big hero for the three count in the win. I don't know why that finish type is bugging me so much tonight. It normally doesn't annoy me as much.
01:51:18
Speaker
But I think this one's bugging me just because Vicious wasn't even the one that really tried to cheat here. He was probably fine with it, but Parker's the one that Sting should be directly angry at for trying to cheat, not Sid. So it feels less theoretically justified in my mind for Sting to kind of take a shortcut than with Rhodes and Austin.
01:51:34
Speaker
I mean, Sid did hit him with a chair. That is fair. That is fair. But that was a while ago. And you know Sting doesn't have a good memory for that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's true. If Sid had, at this point in the match, said, hey, Sting, let's be buddies, Sting would have been like, sure!
01:51:47
Speaker
Let's go for the tag titles together, I believe you. Yeah. Sting gets to the ramp fast, where he celebrates his win to the cheers of the crowd. Back in the ring, Parker uses amazingly intricate and elaborate motions and miming to try to explain to Vicious that he couldn't tell whose leg was whose in one of the funniest things I've seen all series.
01:52:06
Speaker
This is the very definition of playing to the back rows. Yes. The crowd chants, whoomp, there it is. Vicious yells at Parker, but leaves without attacking him. And Parker walks after him, still pleading for forgiveness.
01:52:19
Speaker
The replay of Parker grabbing the wrong leg gives Jesse the giggles. Thoughts on this one? It's a pretty basic match, which is kind of a shame because we've seen them work, ah I think as a whole, a generally better match in the same series.
01:52:34
Speaker
Yes. Obviously, the finish and how ridiculous the finish of their previous match in Alien Havoc years back was really hurts that match. But if you look at the finish as one segment and the match itself as a segment and then compare these two, match-wise, there's a lot more going on and lot more interesting the first time, unfortunately. In total agreement on that. I think the last time i was, I believe I said something along lines of this is one of the best Sid matches I've ever seen. And I felt so bad for him that it ended the way it did because I thought this was them really having a chance to make something huge with like a Sid title win or at least like a better storyline for a loss. But he came out looking like a chump in the end after a really good performance.
01:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. and And this one is just not to that level at all. Yeah, I could excuse him more of like if this was his big comeback match ago, maybe it's ring rust or this or that. But no, he's been wrestling since the about the early part of this year, 93. it's not that for sure. Unfortunately.
01:53:35
Speaker
It's a case where Sid doesn't do a whole lot as far as variety. I think there are moments where he does really good stuff, though. So I don't think it's all a lot. think it's chokeslam is really good.
01:53:45
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, the yeah. The chokeslam is an amazing spot. Absolutely. his catch of the cross body and then slam is also quite good. Absolutely. Yeah. Even much of it's not as interesting, like shoving things the corner, the sort of way he does it with his whole body and his posture and how he throws himself into it. i think there's a high points there.
01:54:04
Speaker
Yeah. Not the most complicated spot in the world, but adding little things that make it different between that Sid Vicious doing this spot in but and random wrestler number six doing it are there all the same. Yes. As usual, Sting elevates the match with his comebacks and just the way he really sells even pretty basic offense or distractions and the like.
01:54:23
Speaker
I mean, he's Sting. That's just ah just a given. Yeah. Yeah. The finish is a bit messy, which is, I know, nothing's an understatement, but I'm a little nicer, I think, than you are. i still think it's pretty silly. It kind of makes more sense if you think about it as the Parker, he initially starts up trying grab the legs.
01:54:43
Speaker
For the storyline purpose, anyways. Bear mind, common sense takes a backseat in this scenario. I think what he's going for is that he grabs the feet and then he's trying to look innocent. He's grabbing for looking away. So like the ref look his direction. He's not looking him, staring at them next to the ring.
01:54:59
Speaker
Again, not the best logic, but I think that's what he's trying to do anyways. I'm not saying it comes off. Well, like said, he's trying to like, I grabbed him and I looked at looking away. So that's why he grabs one. is's the idea It's not an absolutely terrible concept.
01:55:13
Speaker
Yeah. In, in general terms, I think it's the wrong manager to do it with. And it's a bad execution. He clearly is looking, figures out which leg to grab, and then turns around.
01:55:25
Speaker
Where I think, like like you're saying, probably more the intent was for him to get kind of confused and mixed up, but then do a quicker snatch while he's not fully looking. Yeah. And that would come off maybe a little bit better. But yeah, it's a complex spot to do. I don't want to sound like I'm particularly down on the guy. i like Colonel Parker. Yeah, I get you.
01:55:42
Speaker
And I don't blame him really for this spot. I think someone at WCW was like, oh, we'll have the manager go for grabbing the legs. It'll be fine. He'll be roughly eye level with the boots and they'll both be wearing black boots.
01:55:53
Speaker
Forgetting that Colonel Parker is a former wrestler himself and is quite tall. Yeah. So he ends up eye level with a clearly different part of their body. Yeah. There's a very visible difference between what they're wearing rather than like if you had Missy Hyatt doing this spot for it i was going to say that example i would use as well. Yeah.
01:56:10
Speaker
She'd be exactly eye level with the part of their outfits that is virtually identical. Yeah. They have made sure in costuming to make this at least somewhat work with both of them wearing similar styles of boots and the same color of boots. Yeah.
01:56:25
Speaker
So it would work with like Missy Hyatt or someone around her height. But Colonel Parker being a former wrestler, as we've seen on our AWA shows, it just it just doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah.
01:56:36
Speaker
Yeah, for me, the blame really goes to whoever booked it. Like they didn't do like a dress of this. No. And Dusty comes out and goes, wait a second. Let's find another to this. Parker does. He tries to tell at the start of it like because they're walking near him, facing each other.
01:56:51
Speaker
He's kind grabbing at the feet, trying to figure out who's who. So then when he looks away and grabs Sid's by accident, that type person to understand that. He's sort reaching, grabbing everything he can. And then just happens to grab the wrong one.
01:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's just that, again, one is wearing neon and he can clearly tell. So you either needed Sting or Sid to happen to be dressed more like each other, or you needed the manager to be shorter.
01:57:13
Speaker
It's at least a slight subversion of the way that Sputton normally goes. Yeah. Where the heel-manage grabs the face's foot and that costs them the match because of that. So credit for trying, I guess. yeah Oh, yeah.
01:57:25
Speaker
I see what they were going for. Definitely. The other thing that might have worked for it is that they had explicitly booked it for him really trying to hide. So it's actually kneeling at ringside. Yeah. And then he'd be just above the ring apron and grab. And I could see it working then.
01:57:40
Speaker
Yeah. Now, the reason they're doing this is because they don't want to give Sid a straight, clean pinfall loss to Sting because they have plans. The FQ should just a little silly.
01:57:51
Speaker
Yeah. This match had terrific crowd support, but it was a lot simpler and not nearly as intense and entertaining as the match the two had back of the 1990s show. It's still way better than the Road Wild 1999 match, though.
01:58:05
Speaker
Absolutely. Vicious put a lot of big power into his moves, so but he takes too much time between them. Some of that is him, you know, making it dramatic and everything, but i think it just, it goes a little too far. It makes it feel slow and kind of repetitive.
01:58:19
Speaker
The two bear hugs don't help. No, they aren't that long, but nothing of real interest happens during them. Add to that the simple nature of most of his moves, the quite basic match structure and the meaningless brawl in the crowd.
01:58:32
Speaker
Admittedly, it was kind of interesting to see that happen in 1993, since it's going to be a staple of the later 1990s. And I just didn't really find this that fun of a match. The ending is an improvement over the 1990 match, but only because the 1990 match's ending was one of the most infamously stupid things WSW ever did.
01:58:49
Speaker
Yes. This comes off as equally unbelievable, but at least it only sacrifices Parker on the altar of stupidity, not the entire Four Horsemen faction. Yeah. An unfortunate downgrade from their prior match this series, which gets by as entertaining, mainly just because the crowd is super into both guys. Mm-hmm.
01:59:06
Speaker
It is a strong example of how a good crowd can elevate a match that's not as strong. At least it's an interesting thing to watch from that perspective.
01:59:16
Speaker
The plan here is that Parker costs Sid the match, and then Sid turns on him, thus turning face. Gotcha. The plan, as you may recall going back when we covered the 93 Starcade quite a while ago at this point now,
01:59:32
Speaker
It's been a bit, yeah. And yeah. The plan was Sid was going to challenge for the world title at Starrcade. However, a little thing happened three days after this show.
01:59:44
Speaker
They went to Europe. Oh, it's that point, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it is. The infamous Sid Vicious Arne Anderson fight would happen, which would involve scissors and other influence to lead the both very wounded, but Arne more so. Mm-hmm.
01:59:59
Speaker
Apparently, by all accounts, Tuco Scorpio basically came in and broke up the fight so they could then get both of them help or especially more help because he was apparently stabbed 12 times, I believe, with scissors. is What the story goes.
02:00:11
Speaker
It's it's it's bad. It's bad anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So unsurprisingly, they didn't keep Sid around. They, course, brought him back. But, you know, that's WCW.
02:00:22
Speaker
Give a few years up for attempted manslaughter, you know, but but but we'll forgive you later. So this would lead to what pretty sure is the pivot, which is Sting and Royal Warrior Hawk challenging for the tag titles of Starcade.
02:00:36
Speaker
um My suspicion, enough has been confirmed, is that Cid was going challenge Vader for the title. So it was probably going to be Sting and Ric Flair together challenging for the tag titles.
02:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, I could see that being interesting. Yeah, that's my best guess based on how things are going. Yeah. but Okay. Because they quickly pivot in the wake of the said incident to Vader and Flair feuding through Battle Bowl and beyond. So I'm pretty sure it's the substitution in that point.
02:01:04
Speaker
That would make sense. Yeah, I mean, and and obviously the Sting and Hawk team still makes sense because they have the whole Brothers in Paint thing going on, but it does feel a little bit out of nowhere on that show. So makes sense if that wasn't like the original plan.
02:01:17
Speaker
Absolutely. So ah see you again, 999, Sid.
02:01:23
Speaker
Tony and Jesse agree that Sting remains the franchise. Jesse is still confused by Tony's outfit, and Tony proudly proclaims that he looks pretty good. Tony recaps the earlier wheel spin and throws the footage of Vader and Cactus Jack individually preparing backstage, Vader by throwing punches like a boxer with his coach Harley Race, and Cactus Jack by rocking back and forth with a little bag in his hand, saying, you can't hurt Cactus Jack over and over.
02:01:49
Speaker
Turning to the next match, Tony says it's now for a world heavyweight title. Jesse says it's one they've been waiting for, then pats Tony's bald head.
02:01:59
Speaker
So our seventh match is The Nature Boy, Ric Flair, with Fifi, versus Ravishing Rick Rude for Rude's WCW International World Heavyweight Championship. Yes!
02:02:11
Speaker
you The referees for this match are Randy Anderson on the inside and Terry Taylor on the outside. So just like the Nasty Boys, Ric Flair is the champion going into September when the WCW-NWA split happens.
02:02:27
Speaker
That's when they come over the Interesting like idea of having a separate body called WCW International somehow then being in charge of this belt, as opposed to a different international body of people that was in charge of the exact same belt the day before.
02:02:45
Speaker
So now where we have the WCW International World Heavyweight title and the plain old WCW World Heavyweight title going on. Flair would, of course, lose this belt in controversial fashion to Rick Rude bit earlier.
02:03:00
Speaker
The story would involve Flair and his manager Fifi, who would later become his ex-wife in more recent times, both being attacked. And the fact that she's targeted makes it more personal, which gets Fleur off his game.
02:03:12
Speaker
He reacts less to the controlled nature boy. The scheming always as ah has a plan with a plan of a plan wrestler, and that allows Rude to utilize the title from him. So now Flair is still mad at him and some reason still brings Fifi down to ringside and challenges for his belt that he had lost.
02:03:32
Speaker
WCW apparently didn't actually have the name for this championship yet. So the title match card just says match for the belt instead of a formal championship name on the tombstone part.
02:03:42
Speaker
Yeah. Flair is out first in his purple and silver robe as Tony again goes over the whole WCW international situation. Jesse and Tony have a bizarre conversation about Fifi looking good despite her job being a maid and therefore presumably scrubbing floors at some point. I guess. And Jesse attempts to get Tony into even more trouble with his wife by asking if he'd let Fifi scrub his floors.
02:04:06
Speaker
Tony is silent and ultimately, after more prompting, refuses to answer. Too late, Tony. You're already in trouble from earlier. Yeah. Rude is out next in a sparkly black robe to huge booze.
02:04:19
Speaker
He has to cut his music and does his usual entrance spiel and dance. His tights today have a bruised Ric Flair on one leg and Fifi dressed in maid garb on the other. It also has a jack-o'-lantern on the butt, which is a choice.
02:04:34
Speaker
ah Yeah, I'm not sure it'd look better in the front middle either. So probably would be even worse. Yeah. So, you know, but a lot lot of options here. I again hope that somebody has the entire collection and does a show on those sometime. Absolutely. He always has the the most interesting designs for those.
02:04:51
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Michael Buffer does the introductions, which begs the question, would he have been called out for this match if WCW International hadn't recognized this as an official title?
02:05:01
Speaker
That's good question. Did WCW have to spend even more money on paying Michael Buffer because WCW International snuck that ruling in? Maybe. Buffer gives us his let's get ready to rumble this time to really bring in the cash.
02:05:17
Speaker
We get some fireworks for Flair's introduction, but not for Rude's. Seems a bit odd since Rude is currently the champ. Rude goes to yell at Fifi, so Flair attacks with varied strikes and a beautiful suplex for one.
02:05:30
Speaker
Interspersed with woos, of course. Naturally. Tony references Rude cheating with a foreign object in their prior match. Rude gets a knee up on a charge, but Flair dodges a top rope knee drop...
02:05:42
Speaker
and Rude hurts his leg, pleasing the annoying Noisemaker. who Flair hits a shinbreaker on the opposite leg and locks on the figure four for repeated one and two counts before Rude grabs the ropes to force the break.
02:05:54
Speaker
Flair continues working the leg, but Rude throws him through the ropes to the floor, then grabs the ropes on a Flair sunset flip to sit on top for two before Taylor gets his hands off the ropes, and Flair completes the roll for two.
02:06:07
Speaker
A Flair crossbody sends Rude and Flair over the ropes to the floor, where Rude lands butt first on a chair, which could not have felt great. No. Tony, when he's calling that, actually sounds a little bit upset, so I kind of wonder if somebody put that in the wrong place.
02:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, might be able to happen, yeah. Flair actually hits a top rope clothesline to the floor. Yeah. But don't worry, he tries again, and this time Rude slugs him. Same Flair karma, different expression.
02:06:34
Speaker
Yes. Rude grabs a chair, but Taylor takes it. Thankfully, because it had unfolded as Rude went to strike. Oh, yeah. Jesse criticizes Taylor as favoring Flair.
02:06:46
Speaker
Rude runs Flair into the barricade, and back in, Rude backbreaker for one, and he works around a camel clutch, as Jesse and Tony argue whether Flair's age has affected his stamina. It is hilarious that Flair might be getting old as a plot point back in 1993.
02:07:03
Speaker
Yeah. It's what, 15 years before his supposed career-ending match against Shawn Michaels? Correct, yeah. And then, of course, like nearly 30 years before the Ric Flair's last match pay-per-view?
02:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's like 2023, yeah. Which it clearly should have been earlier than that, but from how that went, but still. Yeah, mm-hmm. Roode continues beating Flair up, but limps around, has trouble climbing, and sells the leg after jumping moves.
02:07:30
Speaker
Roode whips Flair to the corner, and Flair flips to the apron and collides with a cameraman who has evidently never seen a Ric Flair match before. Guess not, yeah. Giving us an unfortunately great view of Flair's flying buttocks.
02:07:42
Speaker
Roode earns one and two counts repeatedly off flying axe handles, a clothesline, bear hug, dang it, and a couple face-first ramps to the mat, asking Flair if he wants more between them.
02:07:53
Speaker
Whenever Flair kicks out, Rude locks down what he used to kick out and tries again immediately, only for Flair to kick out in a new way. I love the technical work on the pinfalls in this match. Tony references Flair's win at Starrcade 1983 as proof he can make big comebacks in a match.
02:08:10
Speaker
Blast from the past there. Oh, yeah. Rude counters a Flair sleeper, but Flair dodges Rude's dive and hits the Rude Awakening for two. Jesse is aghast at what nearly happened there.
02:08:22
Speaker
Two count off a Flair backslide, but Flair suplexes Rude, carefully positions him, and goes for nothing in particular off the top so Rude can get his boots up, almost like he positioned him specifically so that Rude could do that.
02:08:35
Speaker
Rude accidentally throws Flair into Anderson, and then Flair accidentally shoves Rude into Taylor, just as Tony was expressing thanks that there were two referees. Yeah. Oh, for crying, Tony mutters.
02:08:48
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Rude produces a weapon, but Flair ducks a punch with it and back suplexes Rude, who drops the weapon, which a well-meaning ring crew member nicely moves out of the way, except that Flair is actually supposed to use it, so he goes and grabs it from the corner as a cameraman shoves the ring crew guy aside to try to get the shot.
02:09:06
Speaker
Yes. ah love it. Flair decks Rude with the weapon and hides it as Taylor counts one, two, but stops just before three as it appears that Anderson may have grabbed his leg.
02:09:18
Speaker
It's hard to tell exactly from the camera angle. Yeah. Anderson informs Taylor that Flair used a weapon and disqualifies Flair, awarding the match to Rude. I am unclear how Anderson found out, as he doesn't appear on camera during the weapon sequence at all that I could spot.
02:09:36
Speaker
No, he did not. I double checked it. I'm like, OK, how does he see it This isn't like the Rude versus Chono match where like one of the refs really clearly is shown actually being able to see what's going on.
02:09:48
Speaker
In this one, like Randy Anderson, as far as I can tell, is lying on the floor on the opposite side of the ring from where everything is happening. So the ring would totally be in his way. Yes. Jesse says Taylor wanted to give Flair the win, but couldn't pull it off.
02:10:02
Speaker
The crowd chants bull as Flair goes and grabs the belt before it can be handed to Rude. The crowd cheers the sight of Flair with the belt. Rude, in revenge, kidnaps Fifi, notably right next to Michael Buffer. Thanks for nothing, buddy.
02:10:16
Speaker
Yeah, right. Flair rescues her and locks in the figure forearm Rude on the ramp, but is dragged off by the two referees, and Rude retrieves the belt and flees. Thoughts on this one?
02:10:28
Speaker
I thought this was a pretty adorable mesh of styles. I was concerned because sometimes you have people that seem like an obvious fit, but then' some reason it just doesn't work out. My concern was that it's like it's too good to be true with Matt, basically. Like, there's no way it's to be good.
02:10:43
Speaker
Like, something's got to go wrong because this seems too obvious. Thankfully, I was wrong. I'm happy to say that this match, while feeling very similar in a lot of ways with the finish, at least to last year's match with Brood and Chono and two referees and reversal of the finish.
02:11:00
Speaker
Thankfully, it's way more crowd interaction than that one did. Yes, yes, it did. Again, as you said, that really seems to be a fault of booking and the fact that they booked Shano, who is relative unknown in America, as the face against a much more established guy. So they thankfully made a much better call with a much stronger face in flair to really counterpose Rude, who is, as his name would apply, not a nice person.
02:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think rude goes much further with his act at this match than he did with last match, too. Yeah, you've got a combination of them having a face that there sure is the face and that they know already and are really behind.
02:11:39
Speaker
And then the heel who also just plays up being even more dastardly. Everything about this is better planned from the crowd's perspective, for sure. hmm. There's some repetition in the match.
02:11:51
Speaker
They'll do a dive successfully, then a dive again and it's countered or stuff like that. It's not real repetitive, but there's a couple of spots throughout. We're like, you did that already. I'm not sure why you do that again.
02:12:03
Speaker
But as a whole, i yeah, I really enjoyed it. I thought they worked holds well. I thought the striking was done well. rude continued to work over the match in being control even while you're supposed to have injured leg early on which that would make a certain like wait you did the leg injury in the figure four real early is he gonna be able to keep this up like is he gonna be able to keep the selling well it'd be i'll sell for a minute and then i'll just completely forget my legs injured But I'm happy to be wrong. im happy that he, for the most part, really worked it well.
02:12:31
Speaker
He's still a heel and he's still, I'm going to knee drop with my injured leg. Like, see, Orndorff, I'm going to an elbow drop with injured arm. Yeah. It's just a heel thing, apparently they do. They don't know which limb is injured and just autopilot takes over, I guess.
02:12:45
Speaker
With the exception of Steve Austin, who successfully knee dropped with the uninjured one multiple times in his match. That's true, yeah. like the i likerieque yeah There's some repetition in the moves itself.
02:12:57
Speaker
And speaking of repetition, again, we have Ruined a match involving this exact same belt with a different name on it. yeah And a second referee. And the finish being overturned, although it's disqualification to a top rope to the outside, which the other ref visibly notices. which They show you on replay how he sees it.
02:13:16
Speaker
Whereas this one just feels like, oh, well, the ending is that he sees it. Doesn't matter how he saw it. He just did. Yeah. I understand that this is built up for more, possibly more Flair and Rude, but it definitely disappointing to give them this big moment where they think Flair's won.
02:13:31
Speaker
And there's a return. It's not like Flair's caught with the weapon. They don't even do that. No. If it was like he drops it or something, and like, wait a second, that would be in worse than just the ref somehow will sit at the floor, see the punch.
02:13:43
Speaker
Yeah, clearly what has to have happened here is somehow Randy Anderson did see this happen, despite seemingly the laws of physics itself indicating that there's no possible way that he could. Yeah.
02:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm in I'm in agreement, though. This was a very good match between two excellent performers with big character. It's got an unfortunately somewhat crappy ending. I feel like I've said things like that before tonight.
02:14:07
Speaker
Yeah. But Flair and Rude put on a really good, solid, well thought out contest for the majority of this with a lot of big spots and nice twists. I particularly have to praise Rude's excellent selling of the leg for the whole of the match.
02:14:20
Speaker
As you said, they brought in the leg injury story really early, so had to go for the majority of the match runtime selling this injury, and it brings it back in constantly and limps expertly all the time. Mm-hmm. also really loved the work they did around pinfalls with Rude just trying to stop however Flair last escaped, but Flair always finding new ways.
02:14:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. They thought about things a lot in this match, and it shows. Mm-hmm. The ending lets the match down a lot. It doesn't make either guy look good, and it's really confused by the kerfuffle with the ring crew.
02:14:50
Speaker
Yeah. It doesn't even really pay off the Taylor story. No. If you had him clearly see, but then ignore one of the weapon uses, maybe, to give some genuine intrigue.
02:15:01
Speaker
But instead, he's basically just a normal-ish ref for the match. He makes the call like a normal ref would at the end, and he's corrected in totally normal ref argument fashion. Yeah. Yeah. So at no point does Taylor's prior characterization or need to redeem himself seem to matter to any of this.
02:15:17
Speaker
It's a good match, but a poor ending and a major drop story point that work against it. Yeah, it's funny Ventura says that he tried to give the title flair, like not like a cheating manner. He just called a pinfall the what he saw. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
02:15:31
Speaker
Taylor's just a normal referee. You could have had Nick Patrick in there as the secondary ref and the entire match would have played out exactly the same way. Yeah, there's a lot of setup and very little payoff, unfortunately, the way they do this.
02:15:42
Speaker
Yeah.
02:15:45
Speaker
Well, even though the show ended in 1992, Rick Rude would find out who's the boss but at the next arcade, where he's defending the title against definitely not the big boss, man. Please don't sue us.
02:15:58
Speaker
the boss slash big boss man slash Ray Traylor, where you want to call him, was a sub for the British Bulldog, who was being pushed towards a talent before they let him go because of legal issues and other things going on.
02:16:10
Speaker
British Bulldog versus Rick Rude would have definitely been an an interesting one. i I am curious about that type of match. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Interesting. There's a lot of what might have been this show. I know, right?
02:16:22
Speaker
As far as Flair goes, it's arguably a lateral move because he goes from challenging for this title, which I guess is a real world title now, to challenging for the official actual WCW world title at Starcade.
02:16:35
Speaker
As noted, he's pivoting towards a feud with Vader, who would fight wrestling in the next match is not defending his title. Because reasons.
02:16:45
Speaker
Tony builds up the Battle Bowl pay-per-view again because I need reasons to fear the future. Jesse checks Tony's heart with his stethoscope, and Tony is amused. Tony goes through the rules of the upcoming Texas deathmatch.
02:16:58
Speaker
There's no disqualifications. Falls don't count. There's a 30-second rest between falls. Falls can be done any place in the building. And the match continues until one man can't get to his feet before a 10-count after a fall.
02:17:10
Speaker
So basically, when you pin a guy, it starts a 30-second timer, which afterwards starts a 10-count, and if he's not to his feet before that 10-count, so 40 seconds after the fall, he loses. So really, falls do count, just not in the normal way.
02:17:25
Speaker
Falls count on a 40-second delay. Yes.
02:17:29
Speaker
If you're thinking, boy, that sounds complicated and like it might slow the match down, well, let's see. Yeah. So our final match is Vader with Harley Race versus Cactus Jack in a Texas death match.
02:17:42
Speaker
The referee for this one is Nick Patrick. This one goes back a ways. Early in the year, there'd be a series matches between Vader and Cactus Jack. As part of the culmination of one of those matches, Vader would uncover the mat on the floor and legit powerbomb Cactus Jack slash Mick Foley on the concrete, which from his book he talked about was his idea and also really sucked.
02:18:08
Speaker
I'm surprised by neither of those facts. Yeah, Mick Foley thought a great idea that involved hurting himself. Yeah, it is very surprising. That would lead to a very long angle where he would disappear, like a legit injury angle.
02:18:20
Speaker
But then he would apparently have amnesia, and then he comes back and says actually, i just kidding about amnesia. I was apparently lying to the lady that you said was my wife, but obviously wasn't my wife.
02:18:32
Speaker
He would have a bounty put on him by Vader, which would lead to a match with the guy we unfortunately talked about earlier but named Yoshi Kwan. had to fight for the control of a bag, which is apparently very important to him, although we don't really know what it does.
02:18:45
Speaker
It's referenced in commentary as well by Shivani. I'm getting his bag back. Yeah, so after a legit injury and this very convoluted plan, apparently to fool himself and also Vader, I guess, Texas Jack is back for a match.
02:18:57
Speaker
He doesn't actually get to decide because a random spin of a wheel decides it. And also it's not for the title, which you think you want take away from Vader as part of revenge plan. You would think that the entire idea would be like, you nearly took something very valuable from me, so now I'm going to take what you care about the most or something.
02:19:14
Speaker
At the very least, you know even if you sell that Jack, as a wrestler, just genuinely doesn't care about titles, he just wants to get in there and fight people, and wrestling is like an outlet for violence for him or something like that, you would think that from a revenge perspective, he would want the title.
02:19:30
Speaker
For many reasons, it's bizarre that this match is not for the title. Yeah, I could easily see, especially with a deranged character like a Cactus Jack going, I don't care about myself have the title, but I want you not to have it.
02:19:41
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Because I know this is important to you. Yeah, it's not so much that Jack necessarily wants the belt as that he should want Vader to not have the belt. I guess his agent was the same agent that our old pal Roddy Piper had in 1996.
02:19:54
Speaker
Exactly. i like, I want to beat you, Hogan. I also want your belt because it's not that important to me. Bischoff is on both shows, so maybe he was involved in both weird contracts. If I could blame Bischoff, I'm all for it.
02:20:04
Speaker
Vader is secretly a member of the NWO all this time. It's the first ever one. That's a real long con. Be the NBO then. Oh, yeah. i like that. The new Vader order.
02:20:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I'm down with that. It wouldn't involve taking the logo that much either, would it? No, no. The top half of the the W off, yeah. Yeah, basically. Ring announcer Capetta says, we spun the wheel. Now it is time to complete the deal, which is not as catchy.
02:20:32
Speaker
No. He lays out the rules similarly to Tony. A camera focuses in on a tombstone on stage, reading R.I.P. Vader, which one would think might be a bad omen for his success in the match, but we'll see.
02:20:45
Speaker
Yeah. Vader enters first with race and bellows that it's Vader time. He's the champ. He has no fear and he feels no pain. Tony suggests that everyone at ringside get ready to run as anything could happen in this match.
02:20:59
Speaker
Jack is out next, giving his traditional bang-bang routine. Tony starts reviewing their history, and we're already off. Good thing they didn't bring Buffer out for this one.
Vader vs. Jack: Chaos and Brutality
02:21:09
Speaker
Vader gets on the ramp, and Jack tackles him, and they trade blows.
02:21:13
Speaker
Vader has already taken his mask off. That might be a record. It's gotta be, yeah. Jack dodges a punch, and Vader hits the ring post, and they continue brawling around ringside, where Jack hits Vader with an object from a fan, Tony says it's a camera, then clubs him in the face with a chair.
02:21:30
Speaker
Back in the ring, Vader gets a boot up on a charge and mauls Jack, knocking him out to the ramp, but a bleeding Jack blocks a suplex, and suplexes Vader out. Jack belly-to-back suplexes Vader on the ramp, and Dex race when he sneaks up with a chair, then uses the chair on Vader.
02:21:46
Speaker
They brawl on the stage in fog and both fall into an opening in front of the Vader tombstone. Patrick outright refuses to follow. You can actually hear him like, I don't care, I'm not going down there.
02:21:58
Speaker
ah from Yeah. Wise man, Nick Patrick. Cactus, then Vader, reemerge, both bleeding. Tony notes that that's Vader emerging from his grave. Jack clotheslines Vader flat for the three count and our first 30 second rest.
02:22:14
Speaker
Then Patrick counts, but Vader's up at three, only for Cactus to hit him with a cactus to Tony's delight. Vader rolls off the ramp, realizes a table is in the way, thinks carefully, shoves it away, then collapses, just in time for Jack to hit an elbow drop off the apron for another three count.
02:22:31
Speaker
Vader had no real choice there. It would have gotten Cactus hurt if he'd left the table in place, but it's still really funny to see Vader do something with careful thought and consideration for positioning and then go, yep, I'm totally unconscious.
02:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. We get our second 30-second rest, a strong Jack chant, a lesser Vader chant, and Patrick counts and Vader's up at four. Jack greets him with boots to the face, and they brawl at ringside some more, as Jesse notes that they're both a mess, but it's not a big loss as they were both ugly to begin with.
02:23:00
Speaker
I hope for his sake that Vader and Jack basically didn't hear that. Yeah, would hope so. Jack props the table against the ropes in the ring, with the metal baits facing out,
02:23:11
Speaker
So Patrick, caring more about their safety than they do, turns it over. Meanwhile, Vader mauls Jack in the corner by the commentators who note that they're being splattered with blood. Tony jokes that it makes Jesse look like he just performed surgery since he's dressed as a doctor.
02:23:25
Speaker
Fair enough. Jack reverses a whip and flings Vader belly first into the table and Vader bounces off. That gets two. Jack's sunset flip to the floor, goodness fully, but Vader keeps his balance but fully dodges the butt drop.
02:23:42
Speaker
Jack dumps Vader on the barricade and he topples into the crowd and Jack tries a dive, but he just kind of bumps into Vader and splats on the concrete. It kind of looked to me like Vader might have been supposed to catch him and do a move, but was a little too slow to react.
02:23:56
Speaker
But I'm not sure. It's a bit like the one to the outside with Rick Steiner. Yeah, was reminding me of that. Yeah. he's supposed to catch to me. Guy just bounces off me He kind of looks at him like, yeah, cool. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. and any case, it did not look fun.
02:24:10
Speaker
No. Also not fun, Vader dumps him headfirst over the barricade to ringside with a thud, then swings a chair at him, which hits with its legs. Mm, yeah.
02:24:21
Speaker
Ah, that had to absolutely kill. Meanwhile, race can be seen testing out a taser and pushing a cameraman away. Back in, Vader moonsault for three for a third of the 30-second rest periods.
02:24:36
Speaker
Patrick counts, but Jack is up at three. Vader rewards him with a mauling and hurls him to the ramp, where Jack climbs on his back, but Vader just falls on top of him. Race kindly moves a chair out of their way first.
02:24:48
Speaker
yeah Vader home run swings said chair into Jack's head, then DDTs him on it, but wanders off rather than pin Jack as Race calls out for him to pin.
02:24:59
Speaker
Trainers check on Jack, and Vader comes out, scares them away, chucks their medkit in the chair, and pins Jack for three and our fourth 30-second rest period. Jack is up before the 30 seconds are up, and Vader advances, but Jack hits his own DDT on the chair.
02:25:15
Speaker
The previous 30 seconds end, and despite both guys having been up during it, Patrick still starts counting because they're down now, I guess. Sure. Jack goes to stand, a race tasers him, and he spasms and falls, and Vader makes it to his feet as Jack stays down for 10.
02:25:32
Speaker
Vader wins. Weirdly, Capetta announces it as Vader won because he rose to his feet first. Uh-huh, he did do that, yeah. that's That's not why. It's because he's on his feet at all, and Jack is not.
02:25:46
Speaker
If both got to their feet, the match would have continued. Don't make this more complicated. Yes. Vader, his face a mask of blood, poses in victory with race.
02:25:57
Speaker
Vader walks down the steps, and Jack gets up and catches race, hitting his double-armed DDT to the ramp on race. Race rolls off the ramp and stumbles away, and Jack gives us more bang-bang taunts to a Jack chant.
02:26:10
Speaker
Thoughts on this one? This is pretty enjoyable, but it's definitely a case of it being a very different match. Mm-hmm. Much like the one-off appearance we had where we got Vader St. Hanistad appearing and then you not ever again in that series.
02:26:24
Speaker
This one really stood out to me because it felt so different, like so visceral. I thought the really good job with the there's no rules. Let's just actually make the most out of it for obviously better worse than the long-term health, obviously.
02:26:37
Speaker
And short-term health. Yes. That's true. Well, there's some WCW match with no disqualification and they do like nothing with it. You're like, ah why'd you bother? Yes, they absolutely use the gimmick here.
02:26:47
Speaker
Absolutely. It's definitely a case of the match gimmick itself being certain they have to both fight with and against because they have to like build momentum, but then go for a pinfall.
02:27:01
Speaker
The crowd got to use the fact that a pinfall doesn't end the match right away. It ends it theoretically 40 seconds later after two events happen. Yes. So it takes the crowd to get used to, like they pop real big for a pinfall, then like, oh, right, this actually didn't didn't matter, or at least not in long term.
02:27:19
Speaker
There's a lot of really impressive spots throughout this match. Seeing Vader get suplexed is something I'll never get used to. Mm-hmm. I understand fully how wrestling works and how this cooperation involved.
Taser Incident: Critique and Realism in Wrestling
02:27:31
Speaker
Except for branches where it's someone just actually just pure gut wrench and power lifts the guy up. So I know it's not a case of like purple dog is so strong. He can suplex Vader.
02:27:42
Speaker
I know it. Package Jack is not as strong as British Bulldog, but it's still really crazy to see this guy, this big game thrown around period. Yeah. Yeah. If this was on a show where there was any other match like this, it would have the same effect because we worked pretty much all straight wrestling matches with a lot of nonsense happening around the end is usually at most matches.
02:28:09
Speaker
But nothing like this. This is a real anomaly. And it really does feel like something special. Yeah, the closest you get on this show to something like this match is just the brutality of the Nasty Boys offense. And that's still within the context of a totally normal tag match.
02:28:25
Speaker
It doesn't go to this level with it. So yeah, this becomes a totally unique thing on the show. So much like when you go back to 85 Star Cape, where you that crazy I quit match, and we're like, this is amazing, and this is terrifying, please don't ever do this again.
02:28:40
Speaker
Yes. This isn't quite that bad, just because of why they did some of the blood spots in that match. It's definitely one where i'm like, I really hope they didn't make them do this kind match multiple times in a short period of time, because that would be really a pleasant.
02:28:53
Speaker
Yes, yeah, definitely. I will say the finish plays out better on replay because I lost track of who was had last been pinned because of the way it all plays out because Jack is pinned, but then he's up during 30 seconds and also knocks down Vader.
02:29:09
Speaker
Like when we're watching that, I legit lost track of the fact that Jack was the one that take a pinfall. So Jack is the one that has to take it up or he loses. Yeah. And like, but Jack got the pin, didn't he? And then he was, oh, no, he didn't.
02:29:20
Speaker
He just did the exact same spot to Vader that faded to him. Yeah. But Vader pinned him. So, yeah. It's little convoluted. It's not like the taser spot is interesting as a one-off, but like most times they try to a taser in wrestling, you have to gimmick it and make it fake, and it doesn't look that great.
02:29:39
Speaker
You could have, like, hit him some other way where he goes down that would have looked a little less silly. They actually get closer with this than with some similar spots that you'll see race turns on the taser gets it quite close to jack's leg and then appears to take his finger off the button basically yeah and jack sells the thing but he does actually like get shockingly close to actually giving jack a shock yeah honestly with it being fully i'm a little surprised they didn't just say hey yeah do it yeah Yeah, this was about as brutal as I expected it to be.
02:30:13
Speaker
Jack and Vader beat the crap out of each other, landing ultra hard shots, including with chairs, pulling insane dives, especially Jack, and generally not having much regard for their own safety.
02:30:25
Speaker
Yeah. A few spots don't appear to go quite right, like Jack's dive over the barricade and Vader ending up hitting Jack with the legs of a chair. I think he meant it to be folded. But they keep going and they never let anything throw them, which is good.
02:30:38
Speaker
They definitely put their bodies and health on the line for this. I'd say more than they needed to, though that's par for the course with Jack especially. But it gives us a big, exciting, hard-hitting brawl that still has good flashes of strategy and plot rather than just being big weapon shots like later hardcore stuff.
02:30:54
Speaker
Yeah. I just don't like the win condition. I don't begrudge Jack and Vader a break in a match this harsh, but the 30 second periods do halt the action a bit awkwardly. Yeah. And I think it might have been better if the rule was just that the ref issues a 10 count whenever someone was down and not moving maybe, or do an Iron Man match.
02:31:11
Speaker
Well, do it last man standing, which I don't know if they were doing at this point in the where it's just a knockdown and then you count. Yeah. Yeah. Remove the pinfall condition. Remove the 30 second rest period. Just have it be anytime someone's down and not moving, the ref starts counting.
02:31:26
Speaker
See as if it gets back up. That's, I think, the less complex way of doing this. hmm. The guys never seem totally comfortable with the gimmick either. They kind of wander during the 30 seconds or come back too early.
02:31:37
Speaker
Part of that's just portraying people that are ready to fight. But I think part genuinely is, oh, what do I do during this? Yeah. The ending is a little bit messy.
02:31:49
Speaker
The guys start fighting before the rest period is up, but somehow there's still a 10 count just because they went down again, which makes very little sense. Shouldn't standing up during the rest period count as answering the 10 count?
02:31:59
Speaker
You, like, didn't even need the 30 seconds. Well, I guess the 30 second period is hard set. So what happened in the 30 seconds doesn't matter, I guess. That doesn't exist as far as the space-time continuum, right? it's Yeah.
02:32:11
Speaker
As far as Nick Patrick's concerned, they cease to exist during that period. Mm-hmm. Plus the whole thing with Vader wandering off, seemingly forgetting to pin Jack and trainers coming out and needing to be driven off.
02:32:22
Speaker
I don't know if that was Vader legit for getting a spot or if that was all part of the plan. But either way, it's a very weird moment. The whole thing could have just been done a lot simpler. Just have Vader DDT Jack on a chair, pin him.
02:32:36
Speaker
Jack almost gets up, but race zaps Jack. It's simple. Instead, WSW overcomplicated things again. It doesn't ruin a good match, but it makes for a really confusing finish. Yeah. You don't even really have to have race hide the fact they tased Jack. It's a no DQ match.
02:32:51
Speaker
I was going ask that question. Like what happens if the ref sees it? Because Vader does distract him. Yeah, I mean, I think you could maybe argue, refs do have some power on rulings still as far as the finish, so you could maybe have him say, okay, race, you clearly interfered there, I'm just not going to count this one.
02:33:08
Speaker
Maybe, yeah. Or restart his 10 count or something like that, but he clearly can't disqualify him, at the very least. race could literally just go up to jack and just start plugging the taser into his leg and just stand there and doing that and there's nothing nick patrick can do about it yeah until you know he calls 911 and reports them for murder eventually but still sure sure great match bad ending am repeating myself yeah a little bit and it's that' that's the theme of the show isn't it yeah coming out of this jack would form a team with max pain for some reason
02:33:45
Speaker
They would have a tag team match at Starrcade.
Overall Show Analysis: Creative Themes and Booking Complexities
02:33:48
Speaker
As mentioned before, Sid will be out of the picture between this show and Starrcade, so they pivot to Flair starting in the build-up to the Battle Bowl show. They build up Flair once to challenge him, and that comes into play during that show and leads up to Starrcade.
02:34:05
Speaker
Tony and Jesse wrap up, with Jesse checking to make sure Tony is still breathing. They say that Jack is bloodied, beaten, but not unbowed. Unbowed means refusing to submit to pressure or demands.
02:34:17
Speaker
So if he's not unbowed, he's submitted. He's bowed. Yeah, they they actually insulted Jack rather than praising him there. Mm-hmm. Tony says it's been a treat, and he hopes that we'll join them for Battle Bowl.
02:34:30
Speaker
Eventually, man. Mm-hmm. We're going to take our time. oh yeah. Jesse checks if he has hair under his bald cap, and we get credits over the spooky house from the start with some absolutely wonderful horror movie music.
02:34:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I've forgotten that. And Halloween Havoc 1993 is done. So overall thoughts on the show? Overall, it's a pretty strong show, honestly. Match quality is pretty strong across the board.
02:34:55
Speaker
Opening match isn't terrible, but it's not that impressive. It's a weird case where a lot of times they give you a really strong match to open, and then it kind of drops off on, like, match two or three or four. In this case, it kind starts out so-so, and generally, I'd say gets better.
02:35:10
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The problem is that they overcomplicate like every match on the show. Yes. It's like, let's say eight different people or the producer slash agent, whatever you would call them for these matches.
02:35:22
Speaker
And they all separately went to Dusty Rhodes and presented some elaborate screwy finish. And somehow a Dusty didn't know. It's like, wait a second. They all did that. He didn't go back and tell one of them.
02:35:33
Speaker
Actually, dude, here's a straight finish. Yeah. So he just let it all happen. yeah There's no oversight. Everyone went and pitched crazy, complicated, screwy finishes throughout the show, and no one tried to adjust it any way, shape, or form.
02:35:48
Speaker
And with most of them, you can kind of see like, okay, it it does make sense for what you're trying to accomplish here that you kind of want to have some wiggle room in this or give someone an excuse or that kind of stuff to keep someone building up that you want to be building up.
02:36:03
Speaker
On any individual match, it always feels like there's kind of a reason, but just the fact that it happens over and over and over and over on the show just really makes it stand out. Yeah. It also predominantly leads to the faces being screwed out of some sort of prize, losing the title they're going for, or one they had.
02:36:21
Speaker
So it's a fairly heel-heavy show throughout, which makes it feel like you're watching a setup show for the next show, more than, hey, here's a big blowout between person A and person B. The good guy wins, and now someone else is going to challenge them.
02:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, there's very few matches on the show that feel like definitive. This is it type of matches. Yeah. So the show can feel kind of like a stopgap between where they were earlier in the year with, say, Fall Brawl and where they're going with Starcade.
02:36:48
Speaker
And it's a shame because the match qualities themselves are pretty good across the board. Some even get really good. But because of the way the overall show is booked, it affects how you might view it, I'd say.
02:37:00
Speaker
Credit where credit is due, though, they had some fun with the theme and set dressing. They had that crazy intro we went on about, which is quite great. And even just having commentators dress up, even if really it doesn't really matter that much, it's a nice little touch throughout the show.
02:37:13
Speaker
I love that we've reached the period now, I think, where WSW realizes that they're doing a Halloween show and has decided to embrace the fact that they're doing a Halloween show. Yes.
02:37:24
Speaker
That's really what this series should have been from the start. Yes, absolutely. It just took them an unfortunate number of years to fully, fully realize what they were doing. Mm-hmm.
02:37:34
Speaker
Yeah, as a whole, I'd say it's a strong show. You're going to come out of but having real questions about the booking decisions at WCW, but and no point will you question the quality people they have and matches they can really deliver if they're just allowed to play out normally.
02:37:51
Speaker
Yeah, this was so close to being the show that finally broke the streak of Halloween Havocs that were either middling or just fun but had problems, you know, that we've had so far.
02:38:05
Speaker
But it just keeps screwing up the finishes. Yeah. There's eight matches on this show, and seven of them have finishes that are some variety of awkward, overbooked, confusing, or poorly executed.
02:38:17
Speaker
Even though most of the matches are actually quite good, it's hard to feel great about the show when so many can't stick the landing. In that respect, it's a lot like Halloween Havoc 1989.
02:38:27
Speaker
There's a lot of things to like, but I always have to follow it up with, but... Mm-hmm, yeah. But at least they didn't have a free bird against a hapless face team that got booed by the crowd this time. That's true.
02:38:39
Speaker
The promo content was extremely limited. We got two, one of which was from a referee, but it worked fine for what it was. Still, though, it's surprising that we got no promos from Ric Flair, Vader, Cactus Jack, Rick Rude, or Sting.
02:38:52
Speaker
Yeah. Guys, spinning a big wheel does not a storyline make. I do at least appreciate that they appear to have actually bothered to plan out and maybe rehearse the wheel segment this year, as opposed to making it an exercise in uncomfortable awkwardness like last time.
02:39:07
Speaker
It also didn't help that Taylor's promo, while good, doesn't really seem to bear on the match much. He's involved, but not in a way more notable than another ref would be. Commentary was generally good with Tony and Jesse having some interesting discussions, though, as often with Jesse, I have to caveat that with some jokes that don't quite land right and some moments where he becomes a distraction rather than a supporter of the show.
Final Thoughts and Reflections on Halloween Havoc 1993
02:39:29
Speaker
Still, the two do a respectable job of bringing across storylines. It's just that sometimes they also can highlight what's weird about a match, as there's points where Jesse will raise a question and Tony either agrees with him or doesn't have an answer. And we really need an answer.
02:39:42
Speaker
Yeah, right. I adored Tony dressing up as Jesse, though, and it was fun to see Jesse occasionally genuinely thrown by what Tony did. Normally, Tony's being stunned by the color commentator, not the other way around.
02:39:55
Speaker
Tony seemed to really like enjoy and relish that role tonight, so it was fun to see him having fun. Absolutely, yeah, I gotcha. Production generally went well, though there were, as usual, some missed camera shots or awkward angles, including, of course, the one where a camera was so in the wrong place that Flair hit it.
02:40:12
Speaker
Yeah. Plus the weirdness around the ring crew taking a prop for Flair's match when he still needed it. Otherwise, WSW felt competent this time, which is more than you can say on some shows.
02:40:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Thematically, the show was crazily strong, one of the best in the series so far, with its strongest, weirdest intro yet, great emphasis of theme on match graphics, some fun stage design with a weird, spooky Western vibe, and Jack and Vader actually using the set for their match.
02:40:40
Speaker
It was great to see WCW embrace the Halloween theme again. i like when they don't let these shows be normal. Overall, I did like Halloween Havoc 1993, but as with 89, most stuff has a qualifier on it.
02:40:54
Speaker
It is a fun watch, but you're going to be annoyed at most of the endings.
02:40:59
Speaker
All right, match of the night and MVP. So Al, what's your match of the night? All right. So I guess that this is overall a pretty strong match card as far as quality. So it really comes down to the question of the booking how convoluted they got it and basically how much it bothers you, I would say.
02:41:18
Speaker
Do we, for instance, have the Nasty Boys versus Bagwell Scorpio match, which was much more attention than thought it would have been on paper, which is a nice surprise. steamboat orndorff honestly most of the matches i would say except the opener which again wasn't terrible were some form of contention for me some of them definitely had the silliness overwhelming things like sting and sid being disappointing with that as an extra thing on top of it i think for me the best quality match and ultimately let me feeling the best is no surprise dustin roach versus steve austin
02:41:54
Speaker
But Rick Rudin, Flair, with the better finish, is strong contention. Even with the finish you have, it's still strong contention. But it's hard to get around how much they ever booked that and how it's repeated last year's booking.
02:42:07
Speaker
For me, this was between Regal versus Bulldog and Austin versus Rhodes. the The Flair versus Rudwin was, again, like you said, so close as well. But just that ending brings it down just enough for me that I i couldn't justify voting for it.
02:42:22
Speaker
Yeah. Both Regal versus Bulldog and Austin versus Rhodes are really great matches. Regal versus Bulldog features some intricate stunts and a terrifically timed ending, but it has a little bit more of a my turn, your turn flow, as we pointed out.
02:42:35
Speaker
But Rhodes versus Austin has a smoother, more free-flowing structure and a ton of emotion from a long feud. I didn't really like the ending. it's really close, but I'm still going to go like you with Austin versus Rhodes.
02:42:48
Speaker
It's just a terrific match. There's a ton of emotion. It's let down a bit by the ending, but it's so well-performed otherwise, and it builds really well on top of years of history. and MVP.
02:43:00
Speaker
It's a great case of having just too many choices, having a full bag of candy, not like five small ones. And you got to really pick. You got all the good houses on trick or treating this year. Yeah.
02:43:12
Speaker
More than one mountains bar. So yeah, absolutely. lot of people drawing attention. Like I said, Regal does a really good job. I thought he did the best to highlight Bulldog and covering his weaknesses really well.
02:43:24
Speaker
Both Austin and Rhodes obviously do very well in their match, which doesn't get the amount of hype that you think it would get, especially compared to later match in the show, but really delivers strongly. Thanks mostly to them.
02:43:35
Speaker
They really power through on that for sure. Steamboat does really well, but showing a little more interest his character, which is nice. Honestly, if he was in the match a little bit more, i would make a strong pick as a Dark Horse pick for Tukul Scorpio.
02:43:49
Speaker
Yeah. Because what he does in the match is really good, but he's just not quite enough, I think, to edge out people that work a whole match due to the way they did the tag formula. Yeah, that's fair. I could always go and give it to Sting for making the best out of the match he had with Sid and being the least affected by the blemish of the weird way they did that ending. Yeah.
02:44:09
Speaker
Flair or Rude will be good picks because they're both great wrestlers. If you just take their actual compliments, like how well Rude sells throughout match or how Flair really sells, but also adjusts his offense to the story.
02:44:21
Speaker
He sort of fights against the critique he's gotten, who like say Brad Hart, where he wrestles the match every time, no matter what's happening. This is a case where that's absolutely not true. That's a very different Flair. Yeah.
02:44:33
Speaker
So I'm tempted to give to him as well. And again, for main event-wise, Vader and Cactus Jack really deliver strongly. Yes, there's some blemishes here and there, and they really fight against the match setup, but they do well.
02:44:48
Speaker
It's a real tough call, just so many choices. I think when go to somebody who does really strong moments at night, more importantly, doesn't get a lot chances to make a vent to show, so he really gets to stand out and deliver so well.
02:45:01
Speaker
So for me, my MVP is Cactus Jack. Absolutely fair pick. Yeah, I mean, yeah look, the guy definitely put it all on the line tonight to do the best performance he absolutely could. And probably too too many risks in the process, but that's that's him.
02:45:16
Speaker
And you cannot at all say that he did not give his all for this match because he poured it on. Absolutely. I'm in agreement this was a very hard show to choose MVP on, which I'm so happy to be able to say.
02:45:31
Speaker
there's There's two ways that you can have a hard choice. One, because the show was awful. And two, because the show was quite good as far as quality of performances. And we prefer the latter by far. Yeah, we we we't we don't know a show where we're giving a beef to Glacier for not even appearing on screen, but having a video package run with a name on it. i forgot. but That's great.
02:45:51
Speaker
Yeah. and And that both of us were like, yeah, yeah, we see why you did that. Yeah, i'm what I understand it. Yeah, I know. There were a ton of excellent performances on this show. Rick Rude and Steve Austin both did excellent selling of leg injuries.
02:46:04
Speaker
Wrigel and Bulldog put on an amazing stunt field performance. Steamboat and Orndorff had their really interesting, almost swapped alignments match. Yeah. Jack and Vader put their bodies on the line for a fun final contest.
02:46:15
Speaker
It's a really hard pick. and I have gone back and forth on this frequently as we've been discussing and all through the prep for this show. I feel pretty good on this one. i think I'm going to go with Rick Rude.
02:46:27
Speaker
Okay. he He just puts so much detail into his match with Flair from how well he sold the leg, which Austin did as well, but then to the intricacies of his pin attempts that I that i found myself noticing and just being drawn into of like, wow, there's a lot of strategy to that that he's thinking through. And Flair's part of that as well, of course. But obviously, yeah.
02:46:46
Speaker
Rude really portraying that well of like, oh, he used this. I'll i'll go for that. There's a lot of tactical portrayal of something that doesn't normally get a massive tactical portrayal in a match. And I think a lot of that you can credit to Roode in that one. So it was really, really interesting.
02:47:01
Speaker
I really found myself just fascinating by how he was portraying that match specifically. Even just a little character choice at the end when Flair grabs his belt. So he just immediately runs and grabs Fifi. It's kind of funny.
02:47:11
Speaker
That's a very Rick Roode thing to do. Yes. I belt final. Just grab the woman he brought with you. Yeah. He is in many ways like a Snidely Whiplash type character, isn't he? Oh, absolutely, yes.
02:47:24
Speaker
I do want to give a triple honorable mention as well, though, to Regal, Bulldog, and Randy Anderson for their epic collective timing on that time limit draw. Yeah, fair play.
02:47:35
Speaker
And that wraps up our review of Halloween Havoc 1993. If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can find us on Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. A link will be available in the episode description.
02:47:46
Speaker
Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, so and share your own thoughts about each show as we go through. You can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, YouTube Music, Audible, iHeartRadio, Spotify, TuneIn, or Pandora.
02:48:01
Speaker
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02:48:15
Speaker
Next up, Halloween Havoc 1994. Witness the terrifying rage in the cage. That feels like somebody wrote that tagline, realized belatedly that it was a Halloween show, and added terrifying to try to fit the theme.
02:48:30
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. like, let's take a trip to the spooky grocery store. Yeah. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen, signing off. Good night, everybody.
02:48:40
Speaker
Happy wrestling.
02:48:53
Speaker
Vader is currently world champion, as you said, but but as you said, this is not a non-title. I'm just going to cut that line because you established that perfectly well. Go on, Boppy. It's all good.