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S2 Ep53: VGBD - Community
80 Plays6 years ago
Join Dave and Jake as they learn that the real reward was the friendships they made along the way!
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Transcript
Introduction and Weather Chat
00:00:00
Speaker
Soapstone
00:00:26
Speaker
Come along and see what's new, we're doin' the things that gamers do. You, Gamer, brings the scene. Gamer, jumps is the place to be. You draw people, booms are leaping, wild dogs runnin' and nobody's sleeping. Me, and you, and some soapstone. Come along and see what's new, we're doin' the things that gamers do. Me, and you, and some soapstone.
00:00:56
Speaker
How's it going everyone welcome to another episode of soapstone my name is Jake I'm joined by my co-host as always Dave. How's it going? I Dave It's gonna right you good. You're talking kind of quick like you're like you're nervous Yeah No, it's pretty well a little bit warm, you know
00:01:16
Speaker
I mean, it's been warm in a good way. Yeah. Did you guys get the flash rain today? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like three times where it's like you just look outside. You're like, oh, it's so sunny out. You blink. It's raining like pissing down. You blink again and it stopped. I'm like, is Mother Nature gaslighting me? What's going on?
Community in Video Games
00:01:35
Speaker
I'm liking a cube right next to the road. Essentially there's a window and then the road.
00:01:46
Speaker
But yeah, I just hear out of nowhere rain just starts stops starts But yeah, I mean I don't mind it I'm indoors so that's fine
00:02:02
Speaker
It's a good way to be. It is a good way to be. And it's very comfortable out right now. You wouldn't be able to tell because we're inside, but it is a good temperature, nice breeze, cool evening. I understand why people in your apartment complex just walk around. It's inconvenient for me because I'm trying to drive through where they are while avoiding kids.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, like they'll just fucking like be outside and like with their their toys. Yeah, it's usually like small like little Plastic bikes that has like the pedal bike. Yeah, there was scooters. All bikes are pedal bikes, but it's like a shitty plastic tricycle Yeah, and then they just leave in the middle of the road. I'm like I'll run over this without fucking blinking So keep your shit at least a skew in your fucking yard at least. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't go that far but I
00:02:54
Speaker
I did mentally think of like how slow do I need to go past these kids? My brain evaluated very slow because they're like kids on scooters and stuff and who knows what they do. I don't know if they have NOS in there or not. They might sneak up on me. They might gank me.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely an interesting little community here.
Dota 2 Friendships and Stories
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah. Speaking of being ganked by the community, today's episode is the next part in our kind of video game breakdown community in games.
00:03:27
Speaker
Which I gave you such a softball of a segue. I know I I hit it twice, too I hit it up in the air and then I hit it um, but uh, this is this is kind of another essential function or um, something that really contributes to the longevity of games especially is uh being able to cultivate a community of friends or sometimes rivalries and uh working off of that, um
00:03:55
Speaker
Definitely the games I played the longest have been because I was playing with or against people that were equally invested. Or equally not invested, depending which game you play. True, yeah. Like Monopoly. I'm just like, I'm not buying property. I'm poor, I'm poor.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, play an austere, that would be the word, run through a monopoly where you refuse to buy property. I'm just here for the social interaction mostly.
00:04:27
Speaker
You just land on free parking. You're like, I'll be all right. That's nice. I like to live without possessions. Land on free parking. You're like, all right, I'm going to sleep in my car. This is my only safe spot. Um, but I mean, we, we, we both grew up in a community of, of gamers, gamers Republic or whatever that is. Gamer Republic, I think is the brand. I don't fucking remember.
00:04:52
Speaker
I don't know. It's it's cashed in now, but I mean, for me, at least I played a lot of like single player games, but as soon as I got in the multiplayer, that was like, this is something I'm going to come back to. Like, I'm not I'm not leaving the scene. Yeah, because. I feel like very early days, early doors, it was just like a single player CD ROM reboot up some shit and you showed your friends when they came over. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
And then you were able to do, like, local play for, like, certain games. You're like, what? Bring your whole computer. I don't care how heavy the CRT monitor is. And, like, you played together that way and you developed very localized relationships. But then once online games started becoming more of a thing, you could play with somebody in another fucking country and be like,
00:05:41
Speaker
what up yeah yeah so like i know we've talked in the past some about like that first part that local co-op aspect you know having friends over playing golden eye or perfect dark or you know one of those other uh games that's golden eye or perfect dark
00:05:59
Speaker
Um, but I think uh for for a lot of this we're going to be talking about the the community aspect on a more macro level or like larger friend groups, um kind of in online games and things like that And what better game to kick it off than? Uh your life's obsession dota 2 dota 2 thank you um
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, dota 2 has been A huge community on its own. Let's take myself out of the picture for a moment. Right? That's been it would collapse if you're holding it up Where's dave been guys? I don't know. Let's play league And it's made up of a bunch of relatively die-hard fans you have people who are on there who are
00:06:48
Speaker
They just don't give a shit and they're just there. Right. But the core percentage of people are people who have cared about and they've learned the 100 plus characters. Right. And how the game works and like the map and they care about the patch notes because it changes the game. Oh yeah. It's played.
00:07:05
Speaker
But I developed this... I shouldn't say I developed. I became ingrained in... I developed Dota 2. I got to become a part of this Dota 2 community of these boys. And they know who they are if they're listening. Sad boys. And I did mention them in the Dota 2 episode if they go back and listen to that. Right. You'd think if they listened to one, that would be it, right? Yeah, there's no way there's no 2 episodes.
00:07:31
Speaker
But like it was at a time and place my life where I was very depressed. I would come home get not sober and just play dope online. Right. And then somebody who I played a game with invited me to another game. They linked me to Discord and I got on. I was just talking to these at the time complete strangers. Yeah. Who I didn't know in real life.
00:07:52
Speaker
I had never met them. They lived in different states or different countries. But we were just there to play Dota and dick around. And this friendship grew. And my investment of the game deepened because I had these people who I wanted to play with and enjoy playing with. And then even outside of that, I was playing a pubs game last night.
00:08:16
Speaker
I was not sober. Not a depressed not sober. It was a fun not sober. Right, right. It was like pretty late at night. And there's guys on voice chat saying like, hey guys, kind of drunk, so please carry me. Which is just him asking for help in hand. And I was like, hey man, I'm there with you. What's up? And we were just, we were buds and we were hanging out. And like we, there was an understanding between me and this complete stranger. Right.
00:08:44
Speaker
It's kind of a I don't know if it's it's sort of like an alcoholics anonymous thing nothing This actually doesn't relate to the sobriety and the previous example just the game itself But like I feel like dota beats you up to a certain extent like it's easy to go on like have a losing streak a bad night or something like that and I wonder how much that actually contributes to the long-term enjoyment and friendships that result from it and
00:09:11
Speaker
Because if it was just like cheap wins or things come, like wins come more quickly. Yeah. Fucking no friends are made in turbo mode. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when turbo turbo turbo mode came out, I, uh, I quite enjoyed it because it was the more casual mode and, you know, rest in peace hots, you know, I still, it still exists, but, um, kind of feels like a similar role, really short, more basic.
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, you just kind of pick up and go. Yeah, exactly. But like you interact with those people for like 15-20 minutes. It's not the same thing as like a shared struggle. Exactly. Whether you're like a co-op thing or just like a grueling hour from Dota 2. Yeah, like some of our some of the matches I remember most from like when our group was playing so we had like
00:09:57
Speaker
Dan, yourself, me, AJ, and we had the techies anti-mage game where I was trying to carry his anti-mage. And they had troll warlord and he was like kicking my butt for 75% of this.
00:10:16
Speaker
Just for people who aren't familiar with dota 2 yeah techies is more like a siege character where he just plants mines all game He's playing his own game. You're right of minesweeper. Uh-huh And it's just like have people fall in the traps and blow them up and he's a very defensive Person whereas anti mage is like this very very late game carry You pump stuff in and then he can go blink around and like murder things or split push. Yes, so we're like two opposite ends of the spectrum and
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, so Dan was playing techies and you are also you're playing support I think in that one and We basically I got stomped through like the mid game I think I did okay early got stomped in the mid game
00:11:00
Speaker
Like we should have lost if not for techies. So the way I've heard this described is like the other 100 or whatever characters in dota 2 are playing dota techies is playing Vietnam and That's basically what Dan did and that circumstances like every time I just got destroyed the team died trying to defend me Dan defended high ground with like stupid mine Stacks and stuff that like he shouldn't have gotten away with but he totally did. Yeah
00:11:29
Speaker
And then like we came back in the end and actually I still died a couple like essential times And then we didn't lose because of techies But eventually we actually ended up killing the troll troll warlord twice who's another kind of late game carry, but he's better early than anti mages
Long Game Experiences
00:11:47
Speaker
And it was a freaking 90-minute game and yeah, and we won it and we won it after like 70% 70 80% of the game being categorically losing And I just remember that to this day because it was just like man It really sucks for the enemy team, you know Just an hour and a half in a game. They showed a lot of them they lost I
00:12:13
Speaker
That's the thing like it feels bad. We're just like man. This has been a long time. It's going downhill I wouldn't even care if I did lose. Yeah, and I think that's what happened to them. There's like fuck this games long I know right and we really didn't Win them and beat them as far as skill. We just broke their spirits down enough. That's exactly it It's like we can't win, but we won't lose
00:12:35
Speaker
But taking it back to community, I remember that game as freaking hilarious for us once it was done.
00:12:43
Speaker
And the other thing is like, I don't remember being on bad terms with the enemy team at that point. Oh no. Cause we were both, you can have like your own chat amongst your own teammates. Usually if you're playing with a group, you're in like a voice chat. Yeah. You can also like message your enemies to say like mean comments or just be like, Hey, how's it going? What's up? Yeah. Or that's a lot of times like, fuck, this game is longer. Like, can you guys push and win or do something? Yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker
The thing is that's always bait anytime someone says like push and fast or whatever it is. It's a hundred percent bait They buy back they just yeah, they only rip you out or whatever But yeah past a point I think that kind of game For those really long matches you both realize that you're in the shared experience half of you are gonna lose half of you are gonna win, but you've all made a terrible mistake and I think that
00:13:37
Speaker
that collectively over a lot of games, the losses that hurt, the wins that feel really deserved and earned, and then just the fact that your friends are there through it all, it cultivates those relationships like what you have there.
00:13:55
Speaker
I don't actually have much to talk about in this game in particular, but I actually think about WoW. For a lot of people, they played WoW. They made friends. Some of them developed actual romantic relationships, or they moved across the country and hung out with people. They just crashed on somebody's couch of a guild member.
00:14:15
Speaker
Um, do you want to talk about it? I didn't do any of that. I didn't, I didn't play well, but, um, but it's a similar kind of thing. I think you can develop in Dota where it's like, Oh, like if one of your friends, this is a question to you. Like if one of your close friends in Dota that you like play matches with was in the area, like, would it be okay if they crashed on your couch or something like that?
00:14:39
Speaker
Oh my God, they wouldn't even need to tell me. You would just know they're around. No, I mean, like they wouldn't need to like ask or wouldn't be weird. Like when I went, I was coming back from I think Christmas vacation. We were out on like West coast for mom's side of the family. Yeah. So I flew back through North Carolina.
00:15:00
Speaker
I forgot the airport. Yeah, North Carolina Airport. North Carolina Airport is the one. But my one friend lives in North Carolina. I was like, yo, do you want to like meet me at the airport? Because I haven't been like layover time. Yeah. Dude, some dumb plane stuff did not have as big of a window as we would have liked. Yeah. But he also showed up late and high.
00:15:25
Speaker
But it was really cool to like meet him and hang out and we drove over to this place called Bojangles I was like a fast food joint, but they have like fried chicken biscuits and other stuff Yeah, and so I ate that and then got on the plane. I'm like mistakes were made But again don't as I was used to it right but like that was really cool thing. Mm-hmm
00:15:46
Speaker
To answer your question shortly, yes. That'd be cool. That'd be fine. Yeah, and I think that that's really the takeaway. That's the peak, I think, of these friendships you can make in games like this.
00:15:58
Speaker
Also, to cite a pretty specific example, before I was a Dota 2 main, as you knew, I used to play a fuck ton of League of Legends. Right, yeah. Much more so in college days. And through some mutual friends, we ended up playing with this guy, Robbie. Right. Not sure if you remember it. Did you play League of Legends? Robbie Rotten, I think. Robbie Rotten!
00:16:20
Speaker
But now he lives with our friend Dan and her friend Shane. To be fair, it was Dan and Robbie and I who used to play a lot of League. But they ended up meeting in person and then lived together as roommates, which is a really cool thing.
00:16:37
Speaker
I just imagined i'm i'm sorry I got most of what you said but as soon as we got to Robbie Rotten and it's the playing league I just imagine like he's he's in a bush teaching you about the game he's like now here's the little lesson in trickery we're gonna invade yeah Robbie Rotten is shaco but uh but yeah it's like um I think college was a good time for that too yeah it's like we we all realized that grades were important
00:17:07
Speaker
ish, but, um, not as important as, as playing video games together. So important, important, uh, it was just a bonding experience. It didn't really matter what you were doing. It's just who you're doing it with. So like once a week, we had our ACM meetings and we'd all grab dinner together at the commons or some actual good eatery place in town. Yeah. Or order pizza sometimes. And
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, it was just like a group activity is fact, you're doing it together and developing relationships with initially people who you weren't friends with. You didn't know them, right? But like the relationship builds over time.
Gaming Friendships IRL
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah. And it's just so it blows my mind and also warms my heart to know that that's possible through online games. So like people who I either didn't think I'll never meet or people who I will never meet, but we'll still be friends. And that's cool.
00:17:59
Speaker
right and i think like another another aspect here is like um as we grow older you know we're approaching the the 30 something approaching death yeah yeah it's yeah it is a chart and it's declining right but i watched a lot of logan's runs
00:18:17
Speaker
But it's harder in our space in particular. I mean, we're both like computer science, spend a lot of time online. It's harder for me than it is for you, I think, to go out and meet people, or at least tangentially make those contacts. But in either case, I know you started a new job. It's hard to just break through and make friends, especially as you get older. There's less alcohol between you to break down the barriers.
00:18:47
Speaker
Oh, uh, side note, get this. So next week we have a, like a work happy hour for like a release that happened that I wasn't really related to, but I worked there now, so whatever. But we're actually going to round one for like two hours. I don't know what that is.
00:19:04
Speaker
Round one, um, it's like this big arcade. They have bowling karaoke, DDR, Justin plays there. Yeah. I believe that. Yes. Um, that's cool though. Yeah. Yeah. But that can be the alcohol in between the friendships.
00:19:21
Speaker
We're I think we're allotted one beer I saw oh really is it actually that's that's kind of interesting but But yeah, I mean now that we play games things like that. It's like people drop out of your life all the time it happens and
00:19:37
Speaker
or the trip or it was an accident. Right. You push the things I do for love, but, um, the, uh, uh, it's, it's harder to like net positive game, you know, contacts that you consider friends, things like that. And gaming kind of provides that opportunity if it is in the persistent kind of space. So like.
00:20:00
Speaker
Dota allows you a persistent space. You know, you're going to be able to like jump into a discord server. People are going to jump on. We'll be like today's sock. Let's go play games. Yeah. Um, or like an MMO, which is something like I've done, you know, more in my time. Um, but, uh, much less recently. It's still your time. Yeah. But like what MMOs were you playing back in the day?
00:20:21
Speaker
Played a I put I played quite a few I had like a teenage Korean MMO spree played a lot of those to really yeah, but Start off like Star Wars galaxies and I actually still have friends or a friend my guild master actually from Star Wars galaxies Ended up I added him on Facebook and we literally never talked but we tell each other happy birthday. Oh, that's good enough, right? Oh
00:20:51
Speaker
And that's just, I don't know, some of those connections you can make in persistent games are really awesome. I played an architect, I made houses for people, and there was this person who was a friend of the guild and stuff, and she's like, oh, I'll pay you this much. And I was like, I will accept less than that amount and gave it to her.
00:21:10
Speaker
And it's just like, it just, it felt cool to be part of those, um, those communities and like a guild and an MMO before it was, I mean, it probably still feels cool, but I feel like there's also a little, there's a nostalgia edge or there's a first experience edge to it. The first time's always your best. Yeah. I think it's more when we were starting, it was still newer. Yeah.
00:21:40
Speaker
and less common to like make friends online. And now it's like, there's a lot of online games. There's a lot of MMOs. So if like your kid came home, it's like, Oh, I made friends on the guild. You'd be like,
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, I have friends in the guild too. Yeah. Because we're in a generation where it's much more common. Yeah. I think also people didn't really, for that first kind of wave, not first wave of MMOs, because they were around for a while, but once they started getting big, there was a lot of people playing those games that didn't know how they worked. I remember for Star Wars Galaxies reading a story about a guy that, um,
00:22:16
Speaker
He stayed on for like 12 hours or something like that, running around asking people how to save his progress. He's like, I need to, I've been playing for so long. I need to save my progress before I quit. And it's, it's so, it's just so great. You know, like you hear about that less now, but, um, also played games like Eve, we're head of corporation. And again, friends from that ended up on Facebook.
00:22:42
Speaker
Um, this is how you, this is your metric of friends. It's like, or even from Facebook, I've aggregated from online games. And they're usually, they're usually the guild leaders. It's actually kind of funny, but, um, your brown nose and chick, but I remember like, um, so like I used to do some, some like YouTube video edits and things. And I had one for a Phoenix's song 19 it's on 1911. I paid 14, something like that.
00:23:11
Speaker
No. Oh, it was Fences as the song, actually. They did have another one that was a year. It was named after a year. The year is 19... was it 1942? Is this Pendulum? I don't know.
00:23:24
Speaker
Look it up afterwards. Yeah. But I noticed that the song kind of sounded like the mining lasers are like, it like has that kind of pacing to like accelerate it. But in the background of the song, I'm like, this would be perfect. So like we would just sit out there and mining and Eve is the most boring activity known to man.
00:23:50
Speaker
Is it just like an auto routine? So the mechanics are, I can literally describe the entire thing in very short order. Oh, God. You activate your lasers on asteroids. They cycle automatically. Every time they cycle, you get ore. For large ships, this can be three minutes. You will be periodically attacked by NPC pirates. But if you have your drones out or something, they can probably just fend them off.
00:24:16
Speaker
Um, and players come around and F with you because they know that you're, you're AFK because like no way you do this well. Um, and so we would do this as a corporation. Honestly, a lot of the reason people quit Eve, myself included, I've played like three times is because I go back to mining and I'm like, what am I doing with my life when I quit the game? Um,
00:24:39
Speaker
People are actually recommended not to go into mining at all like don't touch it. Just don't touch it Just go to like low security space and blow people up But as a corporation we just go out and we would talk about stuff. We would laugh a Lot of like you playing like League or Dota or something like that to a certain extent It behooves you to talk about things going on in the game
00:25:02
Speaker
To a certain extent, depending on your. Yeah, it's like a matter you want to share information with your team. Exactly. Like it matters somewhat. Literally doesn't matter for mining. It's the most boring activity known to man. So we just talk about whatever. And so I'd like record these, do some editing. We had a.
00:25:21
Speaker
Uh, our, our, our clan was, um, it was like Ryou Oni, which is like super Japanese edgy stuff. And we had our own like YouTube channel that I maintain and put videos on. And it was just like us sitting around talking, be a bunch of like clips mashed together to a song. And I just had a lot of fun with it. It was like, that was fun, not the mind, which is the most boring activity known to man.
00:25:47
Speaker
Um, but that, that community literally carried and those interactions with like my friends in game literally carried that experience. Cause there was no other reason to be mining any, I can't trash talk that one aspect about this game. Again, going back to that shared struggle.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah, and it wasn't even a struggle. It was just like a It was the equivalent of like everybody kind of like You know like the teenage kind of like high school a bunch of like high school girls that are like each out there each like at their house No, like you split camera view on their bed. Yeah on the phone on the corded phone exactly It's literally that same but for
00:26:34
Speaker
In their case probably like full-grown adult men and in my case like a 13 year old But that was fun To that end though, could you talk about 13 year olds? Yeah when I was playing in yesterday When I was playing a halo to show would have been like late high school Yeah, I was playing with some kids online who were
00:26:59
Speaker
Like 12 or 13 as like the younger brother of like another person who was playing with as well But like you get on with like people like I've played with
00:27:07
Speaker
Adults yeah, I wasn't adult that time. I was playing with like guys were in their 40s right? Yeah, and stuff and it was just Cool looks like I know like they came home. They're like I want to play some Halo 2 I'm like I go home from school I'm gonna play some a little too right? Yeah, I also got home from work I also got home Which is probably 30 pounds because textbooks you don't have the bond structure for that
00:27:36
Speaker
your mom like hands you a cookie but it's it's it's kind of funny actually right like a lot of these games like they have a very wide audience
00:27:54
Speaker
so like we're on the other side of it now where we're the like jaded salty old men by comparison and there's like a bunch of kids and teenagers uh like playing some of the games we play yeah um and it's kind of funny to be on the the opposite side too because now honestly i feel like people that are my age
00:28:17
Speaker
this isn't this is just not across the board but they're more upset than like the teenagers are that are playing the same games oh yeah because we we have limited time yeah so we can't afford like you to fuck up and not push and just win the game instead start out under 20 minutes until we got like a divine rapier
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah, we definitely have a level of investment. Which is, it's appreciated when other people share the same level of investment. Right. Otherwise you get mad at them for not caring as much as you do. And they're like, calm your tits. Why are you so stressed?
00:28:58
Speaker
Which is probably one of the reasons like works for your group because you go into it and you will you all know that This is gonna be like a casual laid-back match. Yeah, we'll communicate. Yeah, but like It's very uncommon for someone that like leave like fuck this. I'm so mad I'm just gonna do some discord. Yeah. Yeah, cuz you just you have fun with it and that's really the point you want to go to have fun and
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. Some people want that. Yeah. I mean, I know people are like, I need to get my rank up in a certain game, but not as much. Yeah. If you share your expectations with the people you're playing with, then you're in a much healthier spot.
00:29:38
Speaker
Yeah, I've definitely been on the the wrong side of that exchange before what? Yeah. Yeah, I know But yeah, I took a break from as our listeners I think I talked about a little bit before but like I took a break from Dota when I Started just become a really salty person and like we would play, you know, like after work with friends whatever and I'm just like, oh my gosh These people are pissed me off so much and like we're not winning and I don't know I just made myself miserable. So yeah
00:30:08
Speaker
And that was because of a difference in expectation. There were people who just wanted to hang out with friends. And then there was me who only cared about winning and like the lamentations of the opponents. I've tried to move past that. And now I'm back.
Nostalgia in Gaming Communities
00:30:25
Speaker
I'd like to believe I'm back to playing games for fun.
00:30:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually true So I was gonna ask to make it to make myself pretend that it's a themed episode Yeah, what do you think are some good examples of online communities?
00:30:44
Speaker
Like, I wouldn't use Dota as an example so much. There are a lot of good people in it, but usually MOBAs are not the friendliest space. Yeah, MOBAs and first-person shooters, I think, could probably be the two I would expect tempers to kind of like... Flare up? To flare up, yeah. First-person shooters because they feel really visceral. And, I mean, we talked about this a little bit in our Mature Radiance episode, but like, it's easier to get angry.
00:31:13
Speaker
when something happens rapidly or surprised, when you feel like things are tilted against you. Those are all things that come up in MOBAs. Or the difference between your perceived outcome, how it should be, and reality, what it actually is.
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah, so you another part of that is because you're playing with teammates. Mm-hmm. You're like So they fucked me over. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I'm sucking low hell. Yeah, it's always not a Turning their cog in the machine. You're like this person's broken everything It's like you you you go in and you're like I am a brand new shiny gear and you look to all of your allies and they're like fully worn smooth
00:32:01
Speaker
It's easy to see that though Visually, yeah, I'm doing a good job. Yeah, no, it's easy to it to in the heat of the moment blame absolutely anyone else which is also the path to toxicity as it is like the path away from it or like some way I've helped my therapy, you know in competitive games is to focus on self-improvement and
00:32:27
Speaker
be like it's not a waste if you lose as long as you found something to do better or you found a place to focus on improving.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah. So that's my advice. So what community do you think is a good example of a good community in online video games? Yeah. I mean, I already talked about MMOs, but I think they stand out as probably the best. There's, you know, likely other exceptions, but it lends itself to long-term relationships that are meaningful.
00:33:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's again, it comes back to you're typically playing with a team. You can't for most of the most, cause it is MMO and not SSO. Like you have to work with people to beat a raid or do a dungeon or something. Why I'm a magician with my hands. They can't see that. They can hear it now.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah. What's that rustling sound? That's the Dave moving his hands. Yeah. Or like a lot of MMOs have casual activities too. Like, um, so I still think that like, in my opinion, the best modern traditional MMO is like Final Fantasy 14. Um, and they have like wood cutting or fishing or like all of these like social areas and spaces and things you can do. Um, the PvP aspect of that game barely exists.
00:33:52
Speaker
It's like, it's there. I'm sure there's a hardcore community for it. Nobody knows about them. It's like literally Fight Club. I did it again. But it's just, it's the kind of thing where you can log in. And this is also kind of my issue with MMOs to a certain extent.
00:34:10
Speaker
is it feels like in downtime for your life, you should be in the game. Like you get home and you're like, all right, well, I'm just going to log in and I'll see what I want to do. Um, which is completely different from like, I really want to play that single player game. So I'm going to go do that. So I just spent time in MMOs, like talking to people and chat or whatever, and like running around in a circle. I'm really guilty of that. Well,
00:34:36
Speaker
So like I think that's fine in a way because it's it's like when we hop on a discord we're talking with people not everyone's playing the same game right but we're there for the social aspect it's cool when you can communicate with somebody in the game about the game like you're playing but also talk about other things you know
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah, I'm talking like in particular if your default state is being in the game And then you determine what you want to do within the bounds of the game. That's what burns me out Yeah, and I'm I like a hundred percent play games like that hashtag destiny too Yeah, it's like destiny at least you don't have the subscription fee to feel like you need to be playing But that's that's why I fell in them at most
00:35:17
Speaker
I was like, do I should I really play the Witcher three if I'm subscribed to like Eve or something? Because I got to get that 15 bucks a month. You know, that's it. That's like two coffee. But I do think that's probably the stand out community.
00:35:34
Speaker
I also, when I was younger, I played MUDs or multi-user dungeons or multi-user dimensions, which to the history buffs are kind of like the precursor to MMOs. And that was almost entirely social interaction.
00:35:49
Speaker
Oh, just like uh, this is all a new space for me. Yeah, it's basically like chat room plus So like if you think about like a tech space game where you're like north south east west kill goblin, whatever Um, that's what those type of games were but they were that in a multiplayer space Okay, so like the og ones kind of like ran over windows telnet
00:36:13
Speaker
Yeah, you would connect to the server over Telnet and it would be like log in or create an account. Then you would do that. And then that would be your character, basically, like for the game. So I played like a lot of different ones. But I played, so I had like Christian upbringing. I actually played Christian ones as a kid. I played, there's one called Ark of the Covenant, which I don't think exists anymore.
00:36:41
Speaker
Um, and then there was another one, but then I played age of chaos, which was a wheel of time based one. That was also good. But like anything, like chat room, there were weird ones too. Like they had one for everybody. So I stayed away from those for the most part is, um, but I, I still, you know, made friends in that. Um,
00:37:11
Speaker
Sounds almost like an earlier subreddit. Mm hmm. Yeah. Like lower community count. Like the most popular ones would have like around 50 people at a given time.
00:37:21
Speaker
but you'd have all these channels for communicating to everyone at once. Ooh, I actually forgot about the one. One was browser-based, kind of like RuneScape or other games like that. It was called A World Called Hollow. And you literally had to hit spacebar, I think, anytime you wanted to reload the text on the screen. So you wouldn't know if people were saying things or responding to you or whatever unless you actually hit spacebar, because you had to send a refresh to the server manually.
00:37:49
Speaker
I would like messages, please. Yeah. And I'll get off this topic. But the thing I liked about the world called Hollow is it was very roleplay focused. So people actually had permadeath roleplay battles, essentially, where it was just a creative writing competition. Like you would describe the move your character was doing and how it affected the other person.
00:38:14
Speaker
This is like early like which superpower do you have? I have this one Well, I have this one which beats that one. Yeah But there is a there is a I did I remember distinctly I had a Practice role-pay battle with another guy. We're doing all this stuff like Surrounding on the sand and turning into glass and like all of these moves that sound like it should kill the other person Then they would like have some sort of counter
00:38:40
Speaker
Um, and it was, it was freaking funny. Later I revisited the game and the main like town, uh, was completely covered in like human viscera. And what someone had done was they went through and role play battled, um, like an entire clan.
00:38:59
Speaker
Basically and killed Everybody in the clan and if you lose that also a neutral like GM wouldn't arbitrate your battle to choose the winner But like the whole clan was wiped out essentially so to demonstrate that the
Diablo 2 and Unique Experiences
00:39:16
Speaker
The guy puts away his pen, explosions of blood behind him. But yeah, the game master has changed the description of all the rooms in the town to make it, to demonstrate how gruesome this was. I thought that was really cool. That is kind of cool in a way, in a very nerdy, dark, weird way.
00:39:36
Speaker
We've come a long way since then, though. Yeah. So how do you prefer to communicate with, I mean, obviously now I'd say, I would assume voice chat. Right. Yeah. That's where we ended up, I think.
00:39:50
Speaker
But like, how much did you do in text chat before voice was the thing? What was your first voice? Like a lot. I mean, like, so first text chat for a long time, programs like Xfire, MSN. I know we talked like you had the, you were Yahoo, right? I was as a Yahoo boy. Yep.
00:40:07
Speaker
I was part of the the MSN clan And then that was probably the first voice too because they had like the the voice chats there And then I remember you could like hold f2 and it would just record your mic and you could release and it would send the sound clip to them immediately Yeah, they got rid of that eventually. I don't know why probably because it's a horrible idea for like privacy but Yeah, that was that was the early the earliest for me
00:40:35
Speaker
Mostly text also if you're a kid And you feel like you want to be treated more maturely Playing a game where you interact just with text removes That top layer assumption if I hear someone go like somebody would top
00:40:52
Speaker
I think going back to Dota 2 is my example for all games. The one game. But yeah, I'd be like, oh, it's a kid. And I would definitely think of them in a different space where I'm expecting them to be less experienced and that they might be annoying or childish.
00:41:07
Speaker
Or as if it was, if someone typed out in chat and text chat, they're like, gentlemen, I believe it would be in our best interest if a top was warded well or something like that. I desire farm in the top lane. Uh, then, you know, you think you're up with a weirdo. I was definitely guilty of that as a kid too. I tried to enhance my vocabulary a little bit, um, to.
00:41:35
Speaker
to fit in with the adults a little bit more. One thing I learned as an adult, adults don't actually care. Like, fancy big words. That's more suspicious than anything else. But, you know.
00:41:52
Speaker
I know you played other multiplayer games back in the day, so I got into Diablo a lot after you did. Diablo 2 was your jam, as I know. Did you make any long-term friends there, or did they all scam you?
00:42:08
Speaker
Wow, that's a that's a poignant comment So no, I definitely did get scammed a lot. Yeah, as I mentioned in a previous episode Diablo 2 was my gateway to the internet. Mm-hmm. So I fell for every trick in the book at least once and Now I have a heart of stone. Yes but like I did make friends online with people and
00:42:31
Speaker
It's usually people who are like a higher level level who will like befriend or be benevolent to somebody Oh, yeah much slower level mentor. Here's a piece of gear exactly And that's cool. And then like you level up and then you're like doing the same level content together Yeah, you meet another friend or you do the same thing. So you have like this group of like a couple people Who'd go online with and you need to go online for Diablo 2 like at least once every 90 days Otherwise your character would be removed. Yeah
00:42:59
Speaker
Because they want to allocate that shit. But yeah, I remember having different high level friends and you just have like guys who are like rich beyond what they should be. Yeah. They found duping early or they actually spent money to buy somebody's account for some weird shit. Yeah. But like I knew a guy who just tried like these random builds. My favorite example is always the one guy who is the shout barbarian. Uh huh.
00:43:25
Speaker
So barbarian has masteries for different types of weapons, has some combat skills, and then has shouts usually to like buff your teammates. Yeah. Um, your abilities will be a level stronger. You have more armor. Was it one at a time or could you stack certain ones? Like I know you could have armor and like the plus skill and something else. You can have a couple at the same time.
00:43:50
Speaker
They're like alternate between the ores But there was one Um war cry which did like a little stun in aoe. Yeah did shit damage But it was just meant for like he kind of interrupted in the combo But he had such a high level and like fast cast ability Where he would blink onto somebody and just go ah
00:44:12
Speaker
You just watched their health bar drain and they couldn't move It was the dumbest thing and like god, I love the internet it's like just being able to experience people who are
00:44:27
Speaker
Going outside the box to do shit. Yeah, and then being a part of it or playing along with it. I remember Again using the Diablo 2 as the example. Mm-hmm. There was a time I was online with a friend and we were like So one mechanic about the game is if you drop an item it shows on the ground. Yeah, it's global Yeah, but you can do that with items and eventually be like hey, there's not enough space near me I'll put that over here where there's free space, right? It moves it to the closest free space. Yes. Yeah
00:44:57
Speaker
another good game so we're like hey how many pieces of gold you think would take to fill up the rogue encampment I don't know how many pieces it was but it took about two hours but we did that we filled the whole thing and then we took a picture of it I'm like
00:45:15
Speaker
This is, this did nothing for my life, but it was just such a fun time to do that stupid shit online with somebody. Yeah. And the other person was just in the same head space of like, Hey, I'm coming on here to have fun with these cool people. And most people in that game were, I mean, they're obviously like the scammers and the dicks, but usually when you're getting onto like Duke group content, people are like, Hey, I don't know you, but let's do this thing together as a team. Yeah. Fucking great. You can immediately jump into it. It feels really cool.
00:45:45
Speaker
I also know that you going back to our Diablo 2 episode, you were that person for other people and that like you had the pot kicker character who literally just went into worlds. So again, just to recap for people who are less familiar with the game. In the act two towards the end of it, you have to find this specific Tal Rasha's tomb and there's like eight different ones, but one is correct and will lead you to the level two boss.
00:46:11
Speaker
Yeah, there's like a symbol you can match or something to find the right one. Yeah. Yeah, nobody does it anyway So I just made a character like I had gone through the game main content many times the different characters But I just picked this barbarian and I named him earn kicker I got him up to that level and usually people would make lobbies or rooms for saying hey, we're doing this and
00:46:35
Speaker
Yeah, so it's like hey doing tall rasha runs. So if you're at that level range You can get a lot of levels quickly, right? You just go to the party and then once you've cleared that you make a new instance do it again. Do it again. Mm-hmm So I would just join these things and I would say like I am urn kicker and then as we go through the tombs Because it was like a tomb like ancient Egyptian tomb. There are lots of like urns and sarcophagi and
00:47:01
Speaker
Now I just go around kicking every single arm. I wouldn't engage in combat, but people found it amusing, which only fueled me more.
Gaming as a Medium for Connection
00:47:12
Speaker
No, I, I completely get that. Um, something I thought about while you were talking about the, um, the high level, low level kind of dynamic, the mentoring is, um, I played, um, an MMO called city of heroes, which is now defunct. It's been shut down, but, um, the, the game had like a lot of potential for that. Um, you kind of like D level the high level people so they could hang out with low level people.
00:47:38
Speaker
And that had a very strong social aspect. I accidentally won a fashion contest once because I was just in the area where it was happening and I got like 50 million of whatever the game's currency was. More money than I've literally ever had in that game.
00:47:53
Speaker
on this burner character that was just a really buff man, like 70% chest. He had a pink skin-tight outfit and a heart, a white heart was his emblem on his chest. I think he was named Care Bear Stare. And his weapon was a melee shovel.
00:48:18
Speaker
I was just standing there like talking to one of my friends like trying to get a group or whatever going and Someone walked over and messaged me like you won the contest. He gave me like 50 million Influence was the currency in that game. Okay, and people were pissed. They were like, that's like a no effort costume Like, how did he win this? I'm just like this guy It was freaking great
00:48:42
Speaker
They also had like, um, like for the co-op side of it, you could like soul bind your character to another one. That was the same level essentially. And what would happen is all experience that you or they earned would be shared, whether they were online or off. So if you're working together, you're leveling like same speed, you know, kind of in a group. If you're, um, on your own and he's offline and he hasn't been online for two weeks, never going to forgive you for that.
00:49:10
Speaker
Then that you're getting half experience because he's lovely enough a lot flying But it was a nice it was a nice touch for people who wanted to go through strictly co-op I Think that's that's really cool. They really nailed the the social aspect on that it's really just it is the social aspect and especially when you have like a
00:49:32
Speaker
spectator sports as well now too. Yeah. As I heavily throw my body as I lean into fighting games. Right. That scene, because I've watched like a lot of smash videos online. Oh, yeah. Just like.
00:49:46
Speaker
Pro tournaments are just like spin ups. They're usually like little day things, but like everyone in there is like super chill and the people are casting because they want to and they are also players. Yes. Yeah. And then you have people like judging from the community who are like in the audience, but also like cheering them on at the same time. Yeah. Cause everybody's there for the same thing.
00:50:07
Speaker
You get like a baseline mutual respect kind of like across the board and you break that and you get called out for it, right? Like you like don't fist bump somebody. You're just disconnect your controller and walk out and like people are actually upset or they'll boo or they'll be like, ooh, or you know, whatever. It's all about the all about the game and those cases. So.
00:50:30
Speaker
Like who you are, like whatever your ability, your aptitude, if you're there to play the game or to enjoy the game, then you're part of the community. Yeah. And that's, that's awesome.
Listener Engagement and Wrap-up
00:50:41
Speaker
I think one of the best things, if you're talking to somebody about a game and you find out that they like the same game.
00:50:46
Speaker
Is like you might mention like a certain class of character, a certain character somebody plays. Yeah. And you're like, man, I fucking hate when people play this such a gimmicky character. They're like, yeah, me too. You get it. Yeah. Uh-huh. And then you immediately have that shared hatred against one thing, but shared enjoyment of the game.
00:51:04
Speaker
Yeah, I actually um, so part of it's just because I'm a nerd, but I'm also kind of less Socially inept than I was like in the past and I don't mind talking to people anymore It's a good place to be in life that I recommend getting there At least you I actually don't talk to anyone outside of the use therapy session This is as comfortable as he gets
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah. But, um, like if, if say we get like a new coworker or something like that, I'll like ask them like, Oh, do you play games? What games do you play? Cause that's immediately. That's, that's the best icebreaker for me. Imagineable. Unless you say I don't play games or games, not really my thing, in which case, like I'm just like walls go up. I'll see, uh, I'll respect your, your space, but I'll just never respect you.
00:51:55
Speaker
So I'm just kidding. I mean, like that's kind of you wearing your heart on your sleeve. That's your comfort zone. You're saying like, Hey, do you share this love that I have? Right? Exactly. It's like, even if somebody plays so like, um, Mobas, but they don't like dota, like they play league of legends or something. I'm just like, cool. I mean, like, I can, I can empathize with that on a certain level. Like you like PlayStation games or something like that. Or do you have like a favorite genre?
00:52:24
Speaker
I've played a lot of games over the years and I can pick a point there and try to connect to the person in some way. Not all of them because some stuff's just weird, but for the most part there's a lot of options there. That's basically my icebreaker.
00:52:46
Speaker
If they're outdoors, you type, then I'm just like, good luck. You know, like I could still, I could have fun braving the elements. Just go back and being pasty and in my room reclined on a bean bag stomach. I must suck to be you. It's.
00:53:14
Speaker
It's nice though, it's nice having something that kind of breaks through like that. And I can tell when I talk to somebody and they do play games, it's immediate for them too. They're just like, oh yeah, I really like Rocket League. I'm just like, oh yeah, Rocket League.
00:53:29
Speaker
Do you like doubles? Do you like solo? What do you play? Whatever. Someone said new characters. New hires. New hires. Yeah, new hires. He's like a Grandmaster Rocket League player. I'm just like, well, I'm never going to play with you because that would just be demeaning for me. But we can talk about it. We can talk about it. And that's really cool.
00:53:54
Speaker
It is, it is true though, that if you open with that and they're like, I don't really play games, it's hard to transition off of that into something else. I mean, you can be like, Oh, what if you're, what are your hobbies or whatever, but you're back to small talk, you know? Yeah. You're not going to break through straight into that. Uh, like we just become best friends sort of, uh, what was that? What was that movie? Stepbrothers stepbrothers. That's what it was. Yeah. Um, so.
00:54:22
Speaker
Anyways, play games. Yeah. Trying to think of an example of like a really shitty community as like a very late counterpoint. That's not a MOBA and not a, uh, yeah. Cause like my immediate thing is like, Oh, uh, heroes of new earth. Yeah. It's one of the most toxic things I've ever heard of. Yeah. SPS is kind of hit or miss.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yeah, it really depends on the FPS you're playing, too. Because some games have really mature communities. Battlefield 2 had a mod, Project Reality, which was entirely trying to make the game realistic. You die when you're shot, you have to stick with your squad, you all have roles, and if you're not playing your role, then you're actively sabotaging your side.
00:55:08
Speaker
Yeah, like it was freaking awesome And everyone took it 100 seriously and that made it better because people were just sitting there like like on comms I think you could hear enemy communications if they were talking. Okay, which is like really freaking cool Um if they were close to you And so like people are like, all right, like let's let's cut comms. We know the plan. Let's execute
00:55:31
Speaker
And like, I remember just literally being like a, a little sniper position and I wasn't even shooting anyone. I spent like 20 minutes, like overlooking this airfield, just calling out Intel over the radio to like my squad. I was like, this is the most fun I've had like ever. Um, and that's not something that exists in a modern, like, I would say arcade shooter to this very extent, like call of duty or something.
00:55:57
Speaker
What you're describing is very, um, it definitely lacks action compared to a lot of the current games. Yeah. But it makes it more impactful. It does. Cause like you die after 20 minutes or you have like a three or four minute respawn timer or something. Um, and you're like, crap. I, uh, I have time to like think back on what led me to this situation. Oh, right. The drugs. Oh, right. The mergers. Right. Um,
00:56:28
Speaker
But yeah, there's, there's, even within those genres, there's a pretty big, pretty big gap. We're like, um, I can't remember that, uh, that third person MOBA paragon. Oh yeah. Obviously the community for that game. Super mature because they never played with players. Like they literally never trash tagged me. But.
00:56:50
Speaker
Yeah, usually the more mainstream something is, the more diluted the community seems to be. Um, I don't know what that means. Again, I think it comes back to it's, it's nice to play with people who have the same level of investment because you're going to the same expectations.
00:57:12
Speaker
And there's like, there's a group understanding. Yeah. Like, you know, if you're there as a group for fun or if somebody is being tryhardy or if you're all like, they're like, we need to win. Let's coordinate type thing. There's actually a, uh, one more kind of.
00:57:29
Speaker
I can't remember words but an example I have is my father-in-law actually played or may still play World of Tanks which is like advertised all over the place people have seen ads with it even if they never played the game
00:57:43
Speaker
But literally had the same deal like group of friends all you know 40 50 something's on team speak they would log in they would like call each other by their call signs or whatever and Just had tremendous amount of enjoyment and satisfaction from that because everybody was committed to the same extent and
00:58:05
Speaker
Um, and yeah, that's, that's where it's at. When I'm, when I'm 40 or 50, that's why I want to be, thanks. I don't know. I don't know if I'll be on world of tanks. It's locked in, but whatever I'll do. Um, I hope I still have, you know, friends playing those games, um, which I think is probably pretty likely because our generation is largely hopeless and addicted to electronic media. So should be good.
00:58:32
Speaker
Well, that gets dark. You should have had that last episode. I agree, though. It is fucking awesome. Like when are you telling me these stories that seem like maybe trite to other people? Yeah. I'm like, that's right. My eyes twinkle and I have this smile because I know what you're talking about. Exactly. You just you get head first in this thing with people.
00:58:58
Speaker
That's 100% true. If somebody doesn't get games, they don't get any of those stories like we talked about. They're just like, yeah, but you're just, you're just wasting time. Like they could compare the same thing to like, uh, Tetris or something like that. They're like, yeah, but I mean, you didn't really do anything. Yeah. It doesn't matter whether you did anything or not. It's like what you felt, what you experienced, what you got out of it. And the friend you made along the way.
00:59:27
Speaker
It's an old trope, but I still... I guess I'm bemused by it. Begrudgingly bemused. That's probably the best level of amusement I can aim for, I think. Okay.
00:59:47
Speaker
Oh, man. I think that it's, like you said, we've transitioned to kind of a more, we're using voice chat a lot more, things like Discord, which isn't only voice chat. It's also like a dropped a message in this channel and someone else will see it like eight hours from now when they log in.
01:00:08
Speaker
Something. Sorry. Can I completely interrupt your story? Sure. Yeah. I wasn't going anywhere with that. Fine, dude. Were you actually? Oh no, not like anywhere important. I was just saying that's the nexus for communications now, like for playing games. Yeah. That's it. So off of that, I was thinking of other video game communities that I got, I've been able to be a part of that don't use texture voice. Can you?
01:00:37
Speaker
Oh, okay. Um That one's actually that one's actually kind of tough. Oh jake. What's the name of our podcast? We don't we we don't use voice Uh, soapstone. Yeah, I mean you still can to a certain extent use text but it all is all procedural. Yeah. Yeah, so for dark souls you obviously can leave messages off of some like, uh Some static text you can rearrange to like make silly jokes
01:01:02
Speaker
But in the same way you are communicating, or if you have a phantom, you use gestures. But there's an understanding in the community. When I got to experience my first fight club in Dark Souls 3,
01:01:17
Speaker
I was happy for three days after that because I'm like, this is the coolest thing. And again, to explain for people who are less familiar, um, you have somebody who's a host and they summon the other people to the world. So some friendly phantoms, then like some enemy phantoms, let people join. Um, and you have somebody who's like sitting kind of like watching and like the arbitration for the fight. And then they have somebody who's like, right.
01:01:45
Speaker
Circle what you assumed to be and you'd be correct an arena. Yeah, and like you gesture to each other and then you dual it out. Yeah But there was no communication. Like there's no one who's like, hey We're gonna do fights. Yeah, you just looking for group fight club Yeah, like you knew from the exact position of where people were what was going down, right? I
01:02:07
Speaker
And that to me was so cool because like that hive mind understanding. This is like Boreal Valley. Yeah, specifically right over the past. Right after the bridge. Bunch of red sign stop zones and they were all fight clubs. Not past the bridge. I was thinking past Pontiff.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah in the invasion area there. Yes a lot too. Yeah, those are you those are two very very top areas there and Dark Souls 3 made it cool too because they had the the mad phantoms the purple ones Yeah, where it's like they invade your world and maybe they help you and maybe they kill you Or maybe they just kill like an invader like as long as they kill something. I think they get their reward but it's a
01:02:52
Speaker
It's an experience for murder. If nobody invades you, I'm the invader. Right. Yeah, exactly. Get you to the end, run you to the end, right? And at the Boston max, but yeah, that's that game's a perfect example of it kind of now that we've oversaturated communication to a certain extent or it were as saturated as we want to be. Dark Souls is like, let's not just take it all away and have people develop their their communication outside of that.
01:03:21
Speaker
Which is really cool. I want to end it with a quote, if I can. Okay. No. Okay. Let's just wrap it up. I've been vetoed. Sorry, guys. Whatcha got? The quote is from Aesop Rock. I forget the song offhand. But the line is, we're all just a bunch of weirdos on a quest to belong. Our songs are echolocation up in impregnable fog.
01:03:51
Speaker
It's true. No, it's just like, yeah, I know. Yeah. But it's just like people want to connect. And for our example, since this obviously video game podcast, video games has been like an amazing medium for that. Yeah. And throughout so many games, I've had like these cool last experiences with just playing with fucking strangers online who a lot of times never interact with again. Yeah.
01:04:18
Speaker
That's the, uh, what is it? Like strangers in the night. Yeah. Any port in a storm where you know, that's, that's, that's a different one. Yeah. Now there's, um.
01:04:30
Speaker
I think talked about it, but the Sonder or the idea that each person you encounter is a Entirely unique individual in their own right like that applies 100% to games It's like that's that's why I still look back fondly on all those friends I made in MMOs and those experiences I had because I know that was just like a touch point That was a little moment in their life That I got to share with them and that's really cool
01:04:54
Speaker
If you think about everybody's, uh, individual lives as different drivers of different vehicles, that's bumper cars, then you're at the, Oh, Jake, that's an, that's an analogy for sex. I think I was going to say though, um, it's like you're, you're waiting at the red light and then, uh, your blinker overlaps briefly. You're like, is it going the same? Is it on the same frequent? And then it shifts away, but you had that moment. Yeah.
01:05:26
Speaker
Yep. I got nothing. We should probably wrap it. I think if you guys want to.
01:05:34
Speaker
Listen to us in the future. I was thinking about how I should, should, uh, ended up, but thank you guys for listening to this episode of soapstone. If you want to reach out to us, uh, you can feel free to do so at our Gmail soapstone podcast at gmail.com or reach out on Facebook and join the discussion there. Facebook.com slash soapstone podcast, where we post all of our audio boom links.
01:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, I would post some other places, but I don't have many accounts. Right. Just direct messages to anyone who's ever liked the page. Hey, got a new episode. You should really check it out. How's like a random string generator, like an SMTP client. I'm like, Hey, check this out. Click this link.
01:06:20
Speaker
Hopefully, if you're listening and you're part of our friend group or you want to hang out and play games, then that's what we do. Maybe we'll see you in the next one or we'll see you online. Bye.