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Ep 113: Tackling Change: Emmanuel Smith’s Journey Beyond Football
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In this episode of The Abstract, Tyler Finn sits down with Emmanuel Smith, former NFL linebacker, Super Bowl champion, substitute teacher, and now legal tech professional. Emmanuel shares his remarkable journey from the football field to the classroom to corporate America, opening up about resilience, reinvention, mental health, and the power of community. From being cut in the NFL to rediscovering purpose while substitute teaching, Emmanuel’s story is a powerful reminder that setbacks can become setups for something greater.
Read detailed transcript: https://www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-113
Topics
Introduction: 00:00
What inspired him to play football and gives an overview of his career:02:00
The mental preparation, challenges in college, and lessons from his coach that shaped his journey:04:36
His most proud accomplishments from his NFL career: 7:57
Transition out of the NFL & mental health: 09:01
Rediscovering joy in football through teaching & mentorship – 17:38
Transition to corporate America & legal tech: 24:46
Joining Qualitas & sales approach: 29:31
What excites him about legal tech:36:58
Rapid-fire questions: 39:20
Connect with us:
Emmanuel Smith - https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmanuel-smith-a79650101/
Tyler Finn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerhfinn
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft
SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.
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Transcript
Emanuel Smith's Transformation Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
The battle struggles that you face are not just for you. a lot of times they're somebody else who you'll probably talk to or come in contact with that are struggling with those same things on the surface.
00:00:11
Speaker
And once they hear how you overcame, a lot of times that gives them victory for them to go out and overachieve in their life too as well. Right? And it's like, man, I'm here. I'm having fun. I'm running to the ball. I'm doing everything I can to enjoy this moment and be present where I'm at because I know it's not guaranteed for the next day.
00:00:27
Speaker
Music
00:00:35
Speaker
From pro athlete to substitute teacher to legal tech, today on The Abstract, I am joined by Emanuel Smith, a former NFL linebacker turned substitute teacher and legal tech professional who brings a really unique perspective sports.
00:00:56
Speaker
pushing forward, having the right mindset, embracing resilience. Emmanuel and I met at Clock. He showed me his NFL champion Super Bowl ring, and I realized I had to have this guy on the podcast.
00:01:15
Speaker
He's someone who's moved you know from the football field to the classroom, now to sales roles. We're going to talk today about how he's turned no's and pivots into opportunities, chance to be better, a chance to give back.
00:01:30
Speaker
We're also going to talk a little bit about his journey with mental health ah and how he's been able to reinvent himself and and leverage his support system to embrace really all that his personal and professional lives have to offer. so With that, Emmanuel, welcome to this episode of The Abstract.
00:01:51
Speaker
No, thank you so much for but inviting me out. I'm excited to be able to talk with you and and just share some nuggets. Hopefully it adds people's life a little better. Absolutely. um Okay, let's start with your career as as a pro athlete, something that has had a few sort of twists and turns or or winding ways to it. But, you know, you were you were a pro football player.
00:02:15
Speaker
Talk to us a little bit about, you know, what what inspired you to play football, why you decided to go pro. Give us a short overview of of your career. Yeah, no. So guess what?
00:02:27
Speaker
Originally, been playing football probably since the age of four. um So kind of got thrown in early. i was a big bobblehead. You see kids running around now with a helmet when we to figure out where they're going. Right.
00:02:39
Speaker
You'll see kids running. When the head goes one way, the body is soon to follow. that's why I play football. ma ah Me and my brother both played football growing up. My dad played in college as well.
00:02:49
Speaker
And then as we kind of got older, we're figuring out like, hey, we're pretty good at this. Like, do we want to play high school? played in high school. And the next step's like, all right. There's a video game. And it was the college football games. Me and brother used to play that like faithfully every night, like sneaking up to go upstairs try play the video game. Our parents sleeping. Like that was our jam.
00:03:09
Speaker
And then we realized like, oh, we have a chance to actually be on the video game. So I'm like, oh, we got to go for it. oh So that originally inspired us to actually want to go play college football was just to have the chance to be on the video game say, hey, look, mom, dad, we made it on the video game. This is super cool.
00:03:26
Speaker
oh Yeah. And so sought out. it was really focused on like, hey, can we get the big enough school where our name is recognized? was like, all right, perfect. We did it. We get into college and we both go to Barabos together oh and have a lot of fun playing there. But we get in and still they get in, they stop making the video game.
00:03:48
Speaker
So they were like, you got to be kidding me. And that was our dreams. Like, I got to able ah So when I started making the video game, were like, well, I guess there's another one
Mental Resilience and NFL Experience
00:03:58
Speaker
we could try to go for. So we still surely started trying to pivot and like, how can we make it to Madden's? So that kind of also ah inspired the journey to allow my brother to actually go play football.
00:04:10
Speaker
um You know, on that journey, we learned a lot about ourselves, but also about teams, the good people, bad culture, good culture, how I kind survive in those things ah that we could apply to our life. Mm-hmm.
00:04:24
Speaker
Talk to me a little bit, yeah, about the the mindset that's required to go pro and the sort of discipline that that's required. um I'm sure you have to make it, you know, in many ways, like your whole life.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, it's one of those things that's funny. actm Looking back at it now, it's like, how do you go to play pro? And I tell people, you got to have a little bit of earned luck along that journey. yeah oh Because it's it's not just you, right? It's like it's timing and everything else. You got to put a lot of work in on the front end. So that's what we got.
00:04:55
Speaker
Coming to college, you know, like, OK, cool. Going to college, didn't know you had to keep your grades up to play in college football, right? You don't keep a good GPA. Yeah. I can do the probation.
00:05:06
Speaker
We did all that. So we're like, Hey, your grades are important. Um, is a more of a mental game. Like as you start getting up to the higher levels of sports, it becomes a lot more mental because the talent level is, I mean, you'll have your few freaks of nature that you'll see like, man, God made you for this sport. Like you were just blessed.
00:05:27
Speaker
oh But a lot of it is mental. It's like, how can you handle the mental the mental battle between your mom, between the game, between the sudden shifts and like being able to hone those things in? So you continue to propel yourself forward to put you in a good spot to go and play professionally. So we were in college. That was one thing we had to really learn. I think my freshman year, struggled with that a lot because coming from high school to freshman year college, I was used to being the big fish in a little pond. And then I got to an ocean. I'm like, dang, I'm not the big fish no more. Right.
00:05:59
Speaker
So I had to figure out. How do you juggle that? Like balance all those things. And I was all lost. So my strength coach, Coach Dobson, actually, ah you noticed this. He gave me a book called The Mental Edge early on, like my first year.
00:06:14
Speaker
And I read that book and it taught me so much about like, I use those principles still to to say, but it's like how like positive affirmation, self-talk, all of these things that we hear about that you see movies and all this other stuff. is now that's That sounds cool.
00:06:28
Speaker
When he gave me this book and I started reading, I was like, I need to do these things. And from my sophomore year, probably to my senior year, really was using everything he told me in that book that I read to help propel myself forward, but mentally be sharp.
00:06:39
Speaker
Because I realized if I'd have had the mental game part down, was going to fail. No matter how good of an athlete I was, if I could understand a playbook or understand the moments in the game, I wasn't going to propel myself forward. I would have stuck.
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah. So that right there was a huge shift in eyes. And you get in the pro, you see it even more. And the pro level is like, they're ridiculous about it. They have like, hey, Monday, Tuesday, they we're doing this.
00:07:04
Speaker
Wednesday, we're going over a third down, first down, second down, whatever you want to call it. Breaking it down to film, but like segments and the sections. and like hey Here's the top three plays of this out of this formation that teams run. like This is who you go.
00:07:16
Speaker
And you see like your vets, which is really cool to see. They've been in the league for a while. they' all have playbooks. like They're all notes from a whole OC. This office of coordinators have been here, here, here.
00:07:28
Speaker
Here's his resume. Here's his play. Here's how he works downfield. So that way we go into the game. It's like, how can we be react be proactive, not reactive? ah For the mental side of things, there's a lot more than people realize when it comes to playing pro sports.
00:07:43
Speaker
ah If you look back on your career, your professional football career, is is the Super Bowl ring the thing that you're most proud of? Or is it something else?
00:07:54
Speaker
ah What are you most proud of accomplishing? ah but As far as like things that I received, the Super Bowl ring, yes, it's probably the most proud accomplishment because it's pretty cool to say you have one of those. or people happy yeah It's not easy to come by. oh yeah but but like My most proud accomplishment was actually...
00:08:16
Speaker
Being able to make it in the NFL, but also build relationships and be able to impact people.
Finding Purpose Beyond the NFL
00:08:22
Speaker
i That was probably the coolest thing. I'll get messages from time to time, but like, hey, you don't remember me, but like...
00:08:28
Speaker
We were in high school and like you talked to me about these things. and like I was just kind of ah like this random kid that didn't know you, but you were bigger than life. You actually took time to spend with me. It impacted to your mind. I was like, oh, that's dope. i I didn't know that. Bro, you go out and you're still meeting people in your community. Being able to have that really that impact on a broader scale, I think is absolutely one of my favorite things about being able to play professional sports that have that impact on people outside of the arena.
00:09:01
Speaker
I think that's really a thread as we were prepping, like you're your ability to have a positive impact on the people around you, something that really drives you and and motivates you. um You also shared with me that, you know, especially sort of towards the end of your time in the NFL as you were transitioning out,
00:09:19
Speaker
um That was really tough, right? Like having to having to let go of ah that career and think about something new. Can you talk us through that time and sort of how you came out the other side and how you found meaning actually working with a bunch of kids as teacher? Yeah.
00:09:39
Speaker
No, for sure. So, I mean, I guess all my life I've always told people, like growing up, hey, like, I'm not just a football player. So I always tell people, all right, because was like, i believe that deep down. But you were playing football from age of four to about 27, 28, that's more than your entire life. And it's been a part of your entire life.
00:10:01
Speaker
So when I got into the league, my first time ever getting told, like, hey, you're not good enough. to play this game anymore. and was my rookie year when was in Atlanta. And I was like, whoa, like, what? Yeah.
00:10:15
Speaker
like i I'm not going to continue to play the sport that I've been playing my entire life. And I've been pretty good at it. And that right there hit me hard because I remember we called the guy the Grim Reaper. He came in. He's like, hey, come with me.
00:10:29
Speaker
We got to go to the front office and just bring you a iPad. We're going to some things in. I'm like, okay. And they give you a black duffel bag, but a black garbage bag. and you just start packing all your stuff in a black garbage bag. You throw it over your shoulder.
00:10:42
Speaker
You go to your car wherever you go, and, like, you pack it up, and then drive home. And on that drive home, that was the first time I remember was in the car. I was crying on the way home from Atlanta to Tennessee because I was, like, I didn't who was. was lost. was like, who am I? Like, football was not who I was, but, like, when it got taken away from me, not by my choice, i was like, it was who I was. My identity was so – deeply enriched in football and like that's who I am and I was such like it was like a badge of honor that I was wearing that I didn't even know it finally got ripped off of me man did it hurt and I went through like a like it led to the season of my mental health struggles I was battling depression suicidal thoughts I mean I thought I failed in life I didn't want to go anywhere I went back home
00:11:31
Speaker
And all I did was go work out in the gym when nobody was working out. So I tried go back in middle the day when everybody's at work and kids are in school. oh i would do work out, come back home, and I would just sit in my room, my parents' room, or I guess my childhood room.
00:11:44
Speaker
ah there I wouldn't talk to nobody. I wasn't smiling. I really didn't care about life. was like, man, I failed everything that i was supposed to do in my life. Like, why I need to go out and even talk to people or be seen? Like, nobody cares.
00:11:57
Speaker
oh And so it was it was rough. i was I was at it in a really bad, in the bad spot. And my dad noticed this. Because, you know, I think it's cool when your parents have perspective or people who've been a little bit farther ahead, of you always have perspective.
00:12:10
Speaker
ah Yeah. He broke his neck twice in college. So he went down a similar path. um But he lost the sport, came back, and then happened again. he went down similar path like it was darkness and destruction. It kind of just the path that he was set on. And somebody had to pull him aside. And so he told me the same thing. He's like, look.
00:12:29
Speaker
know you need to but you got to get out of the house. He's like, global cover substitute teacher, go do something, but get out of this house because you stay here where your life holds your head to, it's not going to be a great spot. Right.
00:12:41
Speaker
And was like, all right, dad, whatever, you know, like, right, yeah, you're telling me what you said. oh I said, I'll tell you the heart. So I went there and became a substitute teacher and power to teachers everywhere because that is not easy.
00:12:55
Speaker
oh but So I became a substitute teacher. But all the reasons I became substitute teacher was one, like it was cool. It was flexible. If I ever got call, it it'll pick back up. I can leave or drop a dime. But the main reason like I wanted to go and impact kids. Like I wanted them to know like, hey,
00:13:09
Speaker
Maybe college isn't for you. Maybe we'll do a trade job or maybe that's not for you. Maybe we'll be doing our own business, right? There's a bunch of different things that you can do in your life that you can still go be successful that might not be the norm. So like if you get so caught up and it's like, I got to do what everybody else is doing,
00:13:24
Speaker
a lot of times you lose your passion and your your dream because that's not what you want to do so i wanted the kids to know like hey go dream big people still do care about you right and i feel a lot of times the younger generation kind of feels lost because they feel like i got social media i think a huge impact on them but like they got their own so i want to know that hey no people still do care about you right like and i want you to know that and i'm there substitute teaching And I don't tell him anything about my background. Like, nothing comes out at all. I'll be like, hey, Mr. Smith, here's your homework, here's your classroom today. Let's do theirs. If you have any questions, please come ask me and we'll be talking about it.
00:14:02
Speaker
And i'm probably I'm there for about so three months, substitute teaching. And the kids started to figure out, like, hey, you play in the pro football. i was like, yeah, yeah. We're not talking about that today. um And then they got around the entire school. So every day for about two and a half months,
00:14:22
Speaker
Excuse me. It went on. and They were like, hey, can we talk about football now? I'm like, no. That's not we're doing. And they finally broke me down. If you have kids or you've been around kids, you know like they are going to ask you the question until that question is answered. and You feel like it's sufficient enough.
00:14:39
Speaker
And, man, they finally got to me broke it down. was like, okay, look, y'all do your classwork and have time next year. We'll sit down and talk about what my journey was. i mean, I didn't know – that the impact that those kids, and I told them, ah they saved my life transparently because it's part of what thinking. It was like, man, I got going today, nobody really know or nobody really they care because like I didn't do what I was supposed to do in my head.
00:15:01
Speaker
And those kids, man, they he's put a whole new perspective in me. like, dude, you like you made it. like How'd you do this? like Of course, I didn't accomplish all the things I wanted to accomplish, it's like, you still had an air conditioning. You still played in the stadium. like You got to be around these people and like all the other stuff. And I was like, man.
00:15:21
Speaker
I guess I really did do a lot of cool things. And I realized, like, I wasn't a failure. Yeah. The biggest thing the kids taught me was, like, your perspective drives your reality.
00:15:33
Speaker
And my perspective was that I was like, I don't care. But I talked to them. I left. I got a call, actually, ironically. So, Ferris talked to these kids. I had a great time. So, teacher, I got a call to go back. I got a chance to play in Tampa Bay.
00:15:46
Speaker
So, I get a call. I'm like, cool. And that whole dream was crazy in itself, too, because I was – Flying from Nashville to Chicago to go do a workout with the Bears. I got off the plane.
00:15:58
Speaker
They're outside the airport. I'm like, hey, ready to pick you up and come take you to the hotel, your physical and all that. I get off the plane. My agent calls me. He's like, hey, you left the airport yet? I'm like, no. He's like, get back on the plane. You're going to Tampa Bay now. and I'm like, so literally turn around, told them, sorry, got to go. So get on the plane and ran back to table to Tampa Bay.
00:16:20
Speaker
And I got down there and my whole perspective was like, I don't care if I get cut today, if I get cut tomorrow, I am grateful for the opportunity that I have.
00:16:30
Speaker
And I'm going to smile and laugh and be my whoop who I usually all always am myself for the rest of my time playing pro sports. So I went out every practice, every everything I was doing, every game. It was always me laughing, me having a good time, smiling.
00:16:45
Speaker
And I actually started to really and find the love of the game again because I lost 11 for a while.
Mentorship and Renewed Passion for Football
00:16:50
Speaker
And yeah that right there, these kids brought that perspective back to me. they're like They were like, you didn't feel it right. You've still done a lot of things that most people dream without being able to do.
00:17:00
Speaker
And like i've I've told kids on my social media before, I'm like, look, y'all, I want to help you guys more than y'all know, but you guys saved my life more than you guys know. The impact you get on me was so much bigger what probably did for you guys.
00:17:12
Speaker
And it's cool because some of the kids now reach out be like, hey, I'm doing this now. I want to let you know. I'm doing well. I'm like, dude, I love it. i got It just lights me up. Just hearing other people's life. become better than pursuing their dreams. Something that was really big for me, because not when you lose that idea of hope and the dream and everything else, once you, once you re-find it again, it like, I want, I'm lit on fire. I want everybody else to be able to have that same passion and excitement for their own lives.
00:17:39
Speaker
I want to thank you for sharing your story. You know, I'm sure time, time makes it easier. Right. But like talking about when things were tough and how you come out the other side is never easy. So I want to thank you for sharing it with, with us.
00:17:54
Speaker
ah You know, I mean, do you feel like that different perspective also actually, you made you a better player and made you know made that sort of second act as a professional football player possible? like Was it the shift in perspective that made all of that really happen?
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes. No, I do. I think the shift in perspective from those kids, I mean, it changed a lot how I saw everything. like Honestly, I was ready to hang the cleats up. Just... I was going find a random job. Didn't know what it was going to be in, but I was like, just find something because I didn't need to do anything else. Like, what I wanted to do, I didn't accomplish.
00:18:29
Speaker
And doesn't respect me. It was like, dude, you are here. have air in your lungs. You have fun. and And you went through a tough season. And, like, through that tough season, you overcame a lot of type things. Like,
00:18:41
Speaker
the battle, the struggles that you face are not just for you. times they're for somebody else who you'll probably talk to or come in contact with that are struggling with those same things underneath the surface.
00:18:52
Speaker
And once they hear how you overcame, a lot of times that gives them victory for them to go out and overachieve in their life too as well. Right? And it's like, man, I'm here. I'm having fun. I'm running to the ball. I'm doing everything I can to enjoy this moment and be present where I'm at because I know it's not guaranteed for the the next day. I got to never know what's going to happen next. Right?
00:19:11
Speaker
And that that carried out through football. Every team I went to, it was always funny because i had I got a thousand different nicknames. I go by Smitty. and the last review Very honest team I was on had different nicknames for. So oh when I was with the Chiefs, it was actually fun because was here and I love this organization that they have here and regret what they all accomplished.
00:19:31
Speaker
oh But it was Club River Spagnuolo, D.C. We were just kind of walking in the hallway one day and he was like, Smitty? I don't know if I ever told you this. is if You come in every day with a smile on your face and you laugh and you're always happy.
00:19:46
Speaker
And he was like, when I walk in the building, and I said, I can count on seeing your face and know you're going to be happy and smiling. That much better fun to work with. Right? And I was like, Yeah, I love it, right? Because they didn't know the season I had when it was like, if you saw me, it was straight face frown, hat on, glasses covered eyes. like They didn't know that season. They just know the season that they see now. It's like, he's always happy. brings good attitude and good energy, and it makes me fun to be around.
00:20:13
Speaker
And was probably one of the coolest things I remember. We were just walking in of those cool conversations. He was like, yeah, I'm Just your spirit, man, is contagious. and we And we want you to feel like you're doing a great job. I'm like, just lighten the room up.
00:20:25
Speaker
So was like, OK, this is this the perspective from the kids really shifted a lot. And allowed me, I think, a lot of play a little bit longer than I probably would have. oh Yeah. I didn't think that, you know, as I left the Chiefs, got cut.
00:20:38
Speaker
um right, injury settlement. I said, right, think this might be the time. And I always tell young guys, now they still see this day, you are still playing or kind of in the bubble of that line that I was on.
00:20:49
Speaker
i was like, well, chase the dream, but don't chase the dream so long it becomes a nightmare, right? Because it can't happen. um, but but this is pro sports. So but it takes a dream, have fun living it out. But was like, for me, what I did, I got cut.
00:21:03
Speaker
always set a, I set a cutoff date for myself, which is always a year after I get cut. If I don't hear anything bad, any workouts for a year, not if I'm, that means like, Hey, it's your time is probably coming to a close because it's the, it's a young man's game. Next man's up.
00:21:19
Speaker
Um, So I set that year date, left my last time getting cut. And I was like, right, this is this is where it's at. This is the line in the sand. And I remember it was actually around my birthday.
00:21:31
Speaker
And I remember about two days out, and all I'm like, all right, I guess I'm typing up. my Hey, I'm retiring from the game speech. You know, the post on social media, like, you know, to close that chapter.
00:21:43
Speaker
And i i'm um I'm a man of faith. So I think it was one of those just God things that two days before my actual day that I was going to post everything, i got a call to go play again.
00:21:54
Speaker
out All right. This must be a sign for me to go play again. And I was playing in the XFL at this point in time just to kind of like show them I was healthy again. Right. So I had been allowed learn. Now, remember, I told God that point, my last time I was like, look, I'll play again. I'll give him a one last shot. But this is not for me.
00:22:11
Speaker
I want to go to an environment to where I can actually be a light to a lot of your guys because the things that I came to the league, that I seen and saw and some of the things that I didn't get great perspective to say, you're like how to go about life.
00:22:27
Speaker
Right. um And some of those things i just didn't really appreciate. so how can I help other guys, young men who are coming into that season in life actually it better and not have to struggle nearly as much as I did with just anything off the field and even on the field?
00:22:47
Speaker
And I think he put me, he asked that prayer about opening that door, put me right in the place where i needed to be. And I was able to meet. It was, the XFL was funny. It was unique thing. oh I lived in a hotel. Fuck your own cop again. got grown men.
00:23:03
Speaker
oh But it allowed us to get really close, right? It allowed us to actually impact other people. we would sit every morning, we have breakfast and like, we would be talking about life, right? And they're asking like a lot of young 21, 22-year-old guys to start figuring out how to go play pro ball navigate this stuff. Like, hey, like, we talk to you? Can we pick your brain? Like...
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, being able to impart actually good seeds into them. Like, hey, don't fall for this solution. You know, that you you see the lifestyle. It looks glamorous, but a lot of times, like, it's not what you want to be, right? Like, it's lot of turmoil behind those doors you don't see. And I thought, like...
00:23:36
Speaker
Do you want to be there? just, I think, stats like 85% of professional athletes in the divorce are there in the divorce. I have multiple women, multiple children. And was like, you don't want to do all those statistics. That's the best statistic. You don't want to be one of those.
00:23:51
Speaker
But here's the thing you need to focus on, how you manage those things. And even when comes to money, I think a good portion, too, as well, become bankrupt seven years after playing because they're still spending the money. Like they were earned no more. Right. So it's like a lot of the things like, hey, you make a lot of money when you're really young, but that money is this quick.
00:24:09
Speaker
It's a good amount, but it can also really quickly. You don't know how spend it. Right. So I wanted to give them a lot of perspective that I wish I got coming as a rookie. And so that was probably one of the highlights of being able to to those guys. Now I'm seeing some of those get played in the NFL, get picked up and go play in the NFL.
00:24:27
Speaker
Someone's still playing, but I'm able to be like, hey, I'm taking the thing you said. and I'm getting married. I'm like, sweet. Like, I love it. i like It's cool always see those little seeds when they do start turning around and start to sprout.
00:24:40
Speaker
and You have just a little bit of effect on like how somebody's life is going in a certain direction that you can shift
Transition to Legal Tech and Corporate America
00:24:46
Speaker
it. Talk to me a little bit about the transition from from pro sports to whether we call it corporate America or like, you know, the type of job that puts you in a chair that you're sitting in right now, right? um Talk to me a little bit about that and also how you found your way to to legal tech. um I can't imagine that there's that strong of, although maybe you're creating it in NFL to legal tech pipeline. Yeah.
00:25:15
Speaker
There's something that's funny. So while you're playing in the NFL, most people always so like, when you're transitioning out, you go like med device sales because a lot athletes go into real estate. That's the thing that you hear about all the time. So I'm like, I'm going med device sales. That's what I always do. I'm like, I know what I'm doing, what I'm doing.
00:25:31
Speaker
This is around. going everybody's all he talked about. And then I actually had a ah my wife's college teammate's mom reach out to me. I was like, hey, are you doing anything? And I was like, well, I actually got some time. So I'm always open to opportunities. So I was recovering from my injury.
00:25:45
Speaker
So I had six to eight months of injury settlement. So was like, yeah, I got a lot time. I'm like, so willa womanwin what are you doing? I thought about the time, I was like, man, opportunities come. You have to always be able to at least open at least hear out because I think every opportunity in my life has led me to where I'm at now. Like a handshake, you never know what a handshake can do to open that door for you to be able impact where you want to go.
00:26:08
Speaker
So like, yeah, I'm always hoping I'm always here. So sat down and it was a company many called Justice Bitton. I love them today. And still talk to a lot of those same people there, Omar, Adam.
00:26:19
Speaker
And they're like, hey, when you're talking about RFP and DEI type words. I was like, i don't know what an RFP is at all. Never heard of RFP. Yeah. I knew what DEI is because it was kind of going around the news. I was like, all right, cool.
00:26:32
Speaker
I was like, my mom's like, I can learn the playbook. I can learn any any system, any tool. I just got put the put time into it. I'm like, all right, cool, let's do it. So I go and I'm actually, I just, there's about a year. and I'm actually, I love it. There's ah such a great culture, great great fit and had lot of fun.
00:26:49
Speaker
Once clock named ACC was making my way around the legal industry. And I first remember I came into legal, I was like, oh man, did I really decide to come in legal?
00:27:00
Speaker
that was like, everybody's going to be sitting tied up with the briefcases and it's just like, just head down and just grind. And I'm like, man, i don't know if my personality is a fitness in this environment, but started making my way around the conference scenes and like actually getting to people.
00:27:15
Speaker
And I was like, you know what? This legal community right here, this is my, this is my people. act I fit in here really nice. yeah So I actually really loved it. Then I got healthy again.
00:27:27
Speaker
So i left Justice Bid to go play well and accept separate for a year. was having a lot of fun. and It was so much fun. was having a chance to go back and play in the NFL, but ended up tearing my Achilles.
00:27:38
Speaker
So in that happened, like, all right, this is now like the true pivot. Hey, what am I going to do? Like, am I going to stay illegal? Am I to something else? And so I ended up shadowing a couple of surgeons, and they were doing brain surgery and spine surgery, I thought it was freaking crazy.
00:27:57
Speaker
fascinating. Like to see somebody's brain and they're still living, I'm like, whoa, this is weird. But then to see their spine open and like, so it was a shadow. life not And I enjoyed the perspective.
00:28:07
Speaker
But I was like, man, I don't think I could stand operating room for 10 hours though. that's a long time to be in hospital. ah right for my god Maybe that's not for me. It was cool, but couldn't see myself doing that.
00:28:19
Speaker
So then I had some, the power of networking, man. And I had some friends that I met early on when I was in legal. They were like, hey, our company's actually hiring. You should go apply for it. I'm like, all right, sure.
00:28:32
Speaker
I ended going to apply and it it cracked me up. So I go apply. He told me he'd apply, put my name, put his name in for me. He was doing it. Tony's his name. I love her death too. oh that all pla I don't get the job.
00:28:46
Speaker
And if they they're saying, hey, you don't have another experience. And I'm like, granted, I get that. It was a sales role. So I'm like, I think sales, my like if somebody has the soft skills, you can learn everything else. But I was like, I know how to talk to people. I know how to buy pain points. Like, That was very natural for me. But i was like, the tool, I did go to law school. ain't got the law background outside my dad being a cop, right?
00:29:10
Speaker
So i was like, i don't much about it, was like, can learn I'm willing to learn and be studious. But i hey, you don't have enough experience. So was like, man, my resume is like my last six years of experience has been me playing football. You probably watched it on TV. Like, I'm not going to any sales experience. Right?
00:29:27
Speaker
It's like, how do you get a credit card? if i I can't even get the credit to start, right? So my hair was like, this is, was like, oh my goodness. So I called him back. So, hey, didn't get a job. Maybe I should just put your name out there for me. She just opened that door.
00:29:40
Speaker
So I go out, all right, we'll figure it out later. And I get a call back a month later. And he was like, they're going call you back. I'm like, okay. They call back a month later. You're like, hey, are you still looking? I'm like, yeah, I'm open for a job. So they told me, like, hey, we can't put you in outside sales just yet because you have enough experience.
00:29:59
Speaker
You got to go the inside sales route. And I was like, okay, you know what? I'll earn my keep. I had no no issue putting the work down or earning it. But I said, if I earn what I'm supposed to do, like, I want to moved out.
00:30:11
Speaker
And this is my first time seeing corporate America on that side of the spectrum. um
00:30:19
Speaker
My year comes up, I'm doing really well. The only thing said was going do, they let go the whole inside sales team. like right Oh, wow. You get on a call, like a normal Monday call, we hop on.
00:30:30
Speaker
It's like, hey, you guys don't have a job. And it's like, Insurance stops at midnight. I was like, man, this is brutal. I'm like, and I can be the same thing. was like, I told him, I've been cut, fired more times than I've had a job. that Hey, you got to go on a plane and go home between like in 24 hours. I'm like, yeah we'll figure it out. So I was used to like the, the instability just to play professional sports, but I got cool. was is supposed to be stable. I'm like, this is not stable.
00:30:59
Speaker
Um, that happened i was like wow it really opened my eyes like at some places they do see you as a number right and it's like you have no control over what that is i looks but in that season was like all right cool i'm gonna reach out to the same people inside sales team and like just don't there you have any help let us know us stay in touch because like i ah believe in its geo relationship connection and so um i'm not not employed for about probably three months I'm like, I'm not taking another job, but I know it's the right fit for me. or but I'm not forcing it.
00:31:32
Speaker
of I'm going to trust the man upstairs. going to lay out where I need to be in my season of life. And I had another friend, Jason Smith, who's my brother from another mother. So, you see ah you know, we are but you're all related. He's a good dude. He's a very good dude. Yeah.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah. ah He actually reached out to me. he was like, hey, you need to go talk to Lauren at Qualcomm time. She's a great friend. Great, great somebody for to learn from. They're looking to hire.
00:31:59
Speaker
was like, right. I trusted Jason. I mean, some ah outside of being a Cowboys fan, you know. Yeah. ah love my I love the death. was like, all right, cool.
00:32:10
Speaker
You said that. I trust you. And I always had somebody. think it was cool. Another fine thread in my life. I've always had somebody who was little bit farther ahead of me, who had different perspective, that gave me little nudges to go in the right direction to leave where I'm trying to get to in my life. Because otherwise, I never would have known to reach out to any of these people or part of any of these jobs. Because I just never knew about these things.
00:32:35
Speaker
He reached out to me and told like, hey, go talk to them over there and see if it makes me a fit. And looked at the interview process, and it was one of those things that was kind of, like, surreal. remember talking to my wife about I like, why don't they ask about my wife?
00:32:46
Speaker
I was like, hey, is this is this. This is... Maybe. I never heard of that in the interview questions. oh But ah that that told me about the values that they had. It was important to them. right I thought that was really, really cool.
00:32:58
Speaker
So we finished going through the interview process. and I'm like, this is actually a company that I can see myself really enjoying being at. right And like their process of how they talk to people, what they want to be able to do, how they want to help
Community and Growth in Legal Tech
00:33:10
Speaker
people.
00:33:10
Speaker
was aligned to a lot how I operate. Like I took a talk, I'm in sales. Yes. During the day. And I enjoy sales. It's very fun. I love talking to people of that. Just competitive side of it.
00:33:23
Speaker
But also I see everybody that talked to like a a future teammate. Right. So for me, it's like, I'm not going to to push somebody to buy something because it's not going to benefit them. Right now.
00:33:34
Speaker
Because I'm like, I'm going to do that, you'll turn around and look at me and it's like, it's 4-4-1 and you make me fall with the ball. I'm like, this is not what I want you to to me. I'm like, hey, this guy actually helped me out.
00:33:45
Speaker
And what he told me, actually, at this is what I needed. right And if it's not, if I know somebody else, I'm like, hey, go talk to these people. I'm fine with Senator and refer about Yes.
00:33:57
Speaker
as the equal to me in terms of like we're business partners business stature but also like as a human like i'm not goingnna try to sabotage you and your job what you're doing on your lock a so immediately get me some success no i rather i would fail at that point right ah yeah So a lot of times about that, it's like, so how do you go about It was super cool because it like, you know, relationships, you talk people and see if there's a need, there's a need that we can solve. Then yes, we will feel that. But if it's not a need that we can't solve, don't try to push and hammer them to go something that's not going benefit them.
00:34:29
Speaker
So at the end of the day we're in business to help people. And yes that was so re refreshing because its good most times in sales, it's like, I don't care. You need to get this done. Even if they don't need it, still push it. It's as close as you can.
00:34:43
Speaker
And sometimes that can taint relationships, right? And for me, that's not how I operate. And I took people all the time. It's funny. I read up people on LinkedIn. My thing is like, hey, um thank you for connecting with me, but I want to learn about your story, your journey.
00:34:57
Speaker
And that's just a general, like for it as people get to know me more now, it's like it's a general, like, curiosity. I want to know what your story is like, your journey, because I'll share some mine as well, but like I get to pull nuggets from everybody else. Like, hey, okay, this is what you guys faced with, how you struggled, how you overcame it. Now I can figure out when I do come to that point in my life or sometime in my professional career, I know kind of how to go about that because I talk to people who went through similar things.
00:35:22
Speaker
Um... So I was super happy I landed with Qualitas. And they're a certified women-owned consulting group, that I think is super deep. And they focus on but a couple of things, really three things, CLM, ELM, and change management. I think, to me, that was huge. like I've been around a lot of contracts that my agent read that I didn't read. didn't understand half the jargon, but now I'm being to understand but ah be in the legal side now. ah And I think it's cool to see like change management, too. I think change management like,
00:35:51
Speaker
one of the things that lot of people companies organizations struggle with is getting buy-in. It's the same in sports. You get a new a new coach coming to a team, he brings his old people and kicks out the old, right? It's like how you create buy-in and get that that no thatran with that that culture to be a fit for what you're trying to take the company to. So a lot of times being able to have that perspective of – pro sports, figure out how, like, I mean, I've been on some good teams who won Super Bowls, and I've been on some pretty bad, but oh
00:36:21
Speaker
yeah some good cultures, some bad cultures, but seeing, like, how we can take those same cultures and same things we talk about, like, my motto of the year won Super Bowl be great. That was the motto for the whole year. And you were like, hey, just be great. That's all we focus on. You be great. At your role, at your specific job, make sure you're the best you can.
00:36:38
Speaker
That was a simple motto, right? But the whole team bought into that. And now at that year, we took off the Super Bowl, right? So like how can you take these same little finite nuggets that people watching sports you get amazed by that I could take and pivot to corporate America and that somebody else can still drive and create a culture that actually goes and wins in their job?
00:36:57
Speaker
Absolutely. What do you think? I mean, i totally agree with your point about legal especially being very relationship-driven. What do you think you like about working in in legal tech? ah what What excites you about that?
00:37:11
Speaker
Oh, what excites? One, it's interesting because it's not that didn't know anything about. So it challenges me to like – figure out how to learn about it, how I can make it make sense to me, time it in. So like that's a challenge in itself, which is for, I think you should always be a ah learner in life. so um Yeah.
00:37:30
Speaker
Second thing about it is like I really enjoy the community. I got... It rocks. like It's one of the best communities that I've been able to be a part of in my young life. I've been able you but i would be a part of because the people here, man, like they really like they really do care. Like, hey, like I want to share with you. i mean help How can I help you along your journey? Right? like Everybody I've talked to in legal so far, nobody has ever been closed off, shut the door face, but hey, no, I don't want to talk to you. I've been in sales.
00:38:07
Speaker
Great. You might be having a rough day today. I get it. right like so When you see them in person, they're like, hey, I actually owe you a reply. We need to talk. I'm like, oh, man, I feel like I blush. I'm like, it's hard to make me blush the dark. So I'm they actually remember, and they they think about those things they want to help you out.
00:38:26
Speaker
So I mean, I absolutely love that. And it's one of the coolest things about it. took the whole time, like, I want more. professional athletes that have come into legal, the right ones, not- Yeah. Right? Like, I want the good fits that come into legal because it's in an environment that, like, it's a lot of fun. It's fast-paced, rounded people, but you have a lot of impact, like, on a huge scale, like, in and different ah companies organizations, but also, like, immediately what you're doing. And I think it's one of the coolest things can be able to do is- Impact other people and people that have legal impacted me like no other. And I don't even know. It's like, man, you said you should be at a conference and we get it off and it's like led to a podcast. Right. It's like, yes, it's like it's just like people.
00:39:07
Speaker
It's not to have ah a servant part. Right. And it's just cool to be a part of ah community like that. That's a big part of this, I think. I think a big part is is trying to give back and trying to create opportunities for for folks to learn from from each other.
00:39:20
Speaker
Emmanuel, I've got some closing questions for you that I like to ask all of my guests. yeah I think the first one, maybe you've sort of answered it, but what's your favorite part of your current day-to-day?
00:39:34
Speaker
oh man. Current day-to-day, favorite part. Yeah. The flexibility and and the emotional stability you have to have because you are having any else in sales, I think also than any job.
00:39:49
Speaker
but But right now, it says like you'll have somebody that is going great. And as you know, in legal, it has to touch about 17 people's hands. Yes. think So he was like, yeah, this is going really good. I'm happy. Like, hey, is Luther going close?
00:40:03
Speaker
And then, hey, sudden, sorry, change. We got to put some holes in this. ah It's like, the emotional high, like, yes, I'm i'm excited. and it's like, I don't know. We're back at the bottom of it.
00:40:15
Speaker
It goes back to that mental game in sports, too. You've got to have that emotional stability to kind of juggle the highs and lows in sports. If not, man, a roller coaster will kick your butt. You'll probably get sick in your stomach.
00:40:27
Speaker
It's the thing happens in the and our day jobs. I actually enjoy that part because it still gives you that competitive nature should feel for sports. um Yes. And the flexibility. i'm like man like you You can work anywhere, everywhere, but also still like...
00:40:42
Speaker
You can get a lot of things done and still be able to go and live your life as well. Which I think is super duper cool, but also the community. I have people reach out, if you ever come to my city, let me know. like Let's hang out. I'm like, you ever come to my city, let me know. We can go to the Chiefs game or football.
00:40:59
Speaker
Let me know. where is am like It's just cool to see that how many people open doors. Like, hey, if you ever in the city, let me know. Let's catch up. It's like... Man, that is so unique because it's like, for me in football, a lot of my friends were friends because we're all on the same team. We're on the same place.
00:41:20
Speaker
right But a lot of them, when we leave, everybody just goes God knows where across the country. So like, man, sometimes it's hard to kind of stay in touch. So having a community like that here in legal, like I know if I go somewhere and somebody's here in legal, if I reach out to them, like, hey, let's go buy food. Let's just catch up. It's like,
00:41:38
Speaker
It helps. It helps kind of with a lot in the work and it makes it worse because the relationships are that much more stronger. Dinner's on me the next time you're in New York City.
00:41:49
Speaker
ah Okay, next one for you. I think this one's kind of funny. Do you have a professional pet peeve? Oh, man, dude, yes. ah ah There might be a lot of people's pet peeve, but ghosty.
00:42:02
Speaker
ah The hashtag ghosty to me is like, We're all men and women at the end of the day, all grown-ups. You can like just tell somebody no. um Sometimes it's like the easiest things. I i have people do that. They'll tell me, hey, not interested. I'm like, no, what thank you for the update. I gotta really appreciate that. cause It lets me out. I don't know you tell me no, so I don't have to... I won't keep reaching out to you. would love to stay in touch. A lot of people are just like,
00:42:30
Speaker
If I don't say anything, eventually he'll, like, disappear. I'm like i'm kind of stubborn. So walk the line. I'm like, hey, every couple months, I'm like, hey, how you doing? I'm back. I'm like, okay. Just tell me no. its Just give you answer, right? I think that's, like, it's it's cool.
00:42:46
Speaker
When people who do do that, and that's my biggest pet peeve. Like, people just ghost you. And I'm like, man, like. That's like the worst feeling ever. You show up on a date, right you your date doesn't even come. It hurts a little bit. It's did something wrong with my breath stand or my dress?
00:43:00
Speaker
like Because like the same thing, it's I want people professionally hey, like no, not interested. Perfectly fine. Thank you. are like We should be able to hand it down with grain of salt and just keep pushing our day about.
00:43:10
Speaker
But that's not the case. Now, I also understand like they probably get hit a thousand times too. right that It's not just... their fault. theyre probably getting blown up and they're annoyed. don't understand that.
00:43:23
Speaker
But I told people look kind by range just want people to be authentic. Just be you. right That's my thing. You be you authentic. yep I think that the that allows actual shit to happen and people to actually talk about that. And I think that's the coolest thing about it.
00:43:36
Speaker
And I enjoy that. So that's my biggest pet peeve. Just be out there and be like, hey, I'm not ghosting you. No, right now at your time. You know what? yeah Thank you. All right, thank you, ma'am. And I think it's the culture today. I think ghosting is like a cool
Personal Development and Reflection
00:43:51
Speaker
thing. Like, social media makes it seem cool.
00:43:55
Speaker
and Hey, I'm ghosting somebody. money you're not They're showing up here, but I'm not to be there, right? It's like, oh, goodness gracious. So, but that's probably my biggest pet peeve. I can go on about that all day long. Yeah. I like that. And sales is not an easy job. i think I think everyone starts to realize that as soon as they start to work with sellers.
00:44:14
Speaker
ah Do you have a book that you'd recommend to our listeners? And I mean, this could be really anything. This could be on leadership, something that's helped you in your personal life, just something that you've read recently for fun.
00:44:27
Speaker
Oh, i can I can give you a books on every different season of my life that I would do. One of our favorite books in terms of just how like leadership or is like personal development, there's two of them. One is called Don't Eat the Marshmallow Yet.
00:44:41
Speaker
It's funny, but I love the presence in that book about delayed gratification, right? Because I think today's society, we live in um a microwave society. You want 30 seconds popcorn right now, right? And a lot times we realize like, man, you probably got to wait that three, four minutes before that popcorn is actually ready. Yeah.
00:44:58
Speaker
That Wake the Marshmallow is one of my favorite books. and so I like storybooks. It's a great story called Awesome Buddy. was on their journey of understanding things. I'm not going to spoil it. The next one is called Three Feet from Gold.
00:45:10
Speaker
um and that one That one I actually enjoy because it's about the power of networking. You never know who you can meet that can open a door for you are just how far away you are from the dream that you want to chase.
00:45:24
Speaker
Um, so that's, that's so my two favorite books from professional development side. um if you're looking at it for men, um, just like how they develop in their self. There is a book that I read.
00:45:37
Speaker
Give me a second. I'm liking now and I'm talking about it. Um,
00:45:43
Speaker
we can add the We can add the link to the show notes. I'll figure it out a little bit. They'll probably come back to me later. But then there's kind of like ah as a other couple. There's one called For Him Only For Her Only.
00:45:55
Speaker
i think it's really good understand just how relationships are, right? Especially when you're in that relationship. So those are really helpful that I really enjoy um that you'll see me talk a lot about.
00:46:07
Speaker
My last question for you, ah and i don't know, take this how you how you'd like to. you know Usually I ask people to look back on when they were a young lawyer getting started, but you could take this as like you know getting started as a professional football player or even just look a few years back to getting started in corporate America.
00:46:29
Speaker
One thing that you know now that you wish that you'd known back then But then I wish I knew God I wish I knew back then. oh That there's no failures in life.
00:46:43
Speaker
um Looking back at it, I think everything that you go through, every fail, every adversity, It's a lesson for you to learn and grow from. And that, to me, was one of the coolest things. I heard this at Washington, I talked about this at one of his graduation speeches.
00:47:01
Speaker
um He's like, people don't remember the strikeouts. they remember the home runs, right? So you're failing, fail big, fall forward, but have a lot of fun doing it.
00:47:13
Speaker
But don't get to the point where it's so caught up that it like crushes you because you're going to fail at something in life, right? Like it's inevitable. And like, no, looking back now, like knowing, okay, I didn't fail for my journey.
00:47:25
Speaker
There's just a lesson for me to learn myself for what's coming next. oh I think it's absolutely huge. And then and another thing is like, the true power of relationships and the impact you guys have on when you give them hope because,
00:47:42
Speaker
ah Hope is one of coolest things that I've been able to have inspired in me. oh Just from, I had somebody text this morning, actually, a mentor of mine. so was just looking back on all the time that we, he spent with me.
00:47:56
Speaker
oh And a lot of times, like, he would just instill hope in me and the hope to go out to believe for more, the hope that I can go do more. And that hope really that allowed me to continue to push forward, even when I was in dark seasons in my life.
00:48:10
Speaker
oh So I think, man, I want people all, and I took over time, I have a shirt that sometimes has hope still there. Because I want people to have hope. Because I believe, like, when you have hope, you'll dream big. You'll keep cheap going about the things you're really passionate about.
00:48:23
Speaker
And you you won't lose yourself, right? And I think of people today... have lost a lot of hope in just like their own dream. As we get older, it's like that dream's too foolish now. Come on, you're old, right? People probably keep down you and your dreams, right? It's like, i don't think any dream should ever die, right? Like, you know, when we ever, our time is the leadest place of of the world and earth. oh We all going to be on our debt base. And I think the one thing that we'll all look up and say is like,
00:48:58
Speaker
I don't want to say, i wish I had done this. I wish I pursued this. wish I to the risk. I want to be like, man, I really went out and ah lived the life that I wanted to dream and aspire to. And I might have failed at it. them um But through that failure, I learned so much about how to go do other things.
00:49:12
Speaker
But I don't want people just let their dreams just sit there and die because they feel like they got chase whatever. The world is questioning the chase. um So that's probably big for me because like I think I am unicorn because I'm like, I just...
00:49:26
Speaker
I didn't want to chase the dream, live it, have so much fun doing it because i know the journey is going to be so much worse before I get your destination. What an inspiring way to end this conversation.
00:49:38
Speaker
ah This has been so positive and really uplifting for me. ah Thank you so much for joining me and helping me create this episode of The Abstract, Emmanuel. oh Thank you so much for inviting me on it. I'm excited, and I'll continue to watch more of your podcast, too, as well. So if you're out there, please join this man's podcast and reach out to you.
00:49:59
Speaker
I appreciate the plug. ah To all of our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in and we hope to see you next time.