In this episode of Beacon Voices, Akshay Verma speaks with Susan Packal, Head of Global Legal Operations and Chief of Staff at Avalara, about the creation of a first-of-its-kind documentary on the history and evolution of legal operations.  


Susan shares the inspiration behind the project, the three-year journey to bring it to life, and the stories of the pioneers who helped shape the profession. Together, they explore how the documentary came together, what it reveals about the growth of legal operations, and why preserving these stories matters for future generations of legal professionals.  


The conversation also touches on the challenges of producing a film while leading global teams, the role of leadership and creativity in driving meaningful change, the importance of taking career risks, and how legal operations continues to evolve in the age of AI.  


Topics:
Introduction: Susan Packal on the Legal Operations Documentary: 00:00
Susan’s winding career path into legal ops and watching the community evolve: 01:56
Why Documentary Filmmaking Was the Perfect Medium: 04:56
Capturing Authentic, Unscripted Stories from Legal Ops Leaders: 07:59
The Origin Story: How the Documentary Idea Was Born: 10:02
Taking Risks, Career Transitions, and Building Something New: 12:45
The Risks Participants Took to Share Their Stories: 14:39
Inside the Four-Part Legal Operations Documentary: 17:25
Why Susan Hired a Documentary Coach and Filmmaking Team: 18:21
The Biggest Challenges of Producing the Film While Leading Legal Ops Teams: 22:49
The Creative Process Behind the Documentary: 27:51
What the Film Means for the Future of Legal Operations and Legal Leadership: 30:19
Final Reflections and Launching the Documentary to the Community: 32:49


Connect with us:
Susan Packal  -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanpackal/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 12:  Behind the First Legal Operations Documentary: Susan Packal’s Journey

In this episode of SpotDraft’s Beacon Voices podcast, Akshay Verma sits down with Ron Bell to discuss the evolution of legal operations and the future of legal teams in the AI era.  

Ron shares how his experience at Apple and Yahoo shaped his thinking around collaboration, systems, and legal strategy, and reflects on the early days of legal ops alongside pioneers like Connie Brenton. The conversation explores how AI is changing the role of lawyers, why legal teams must think beyond legal advice, and how legal ops professionals can drive smarter, more scalable business processes.  

They also discuss the need for law schools to evolve, the importance of systems thinking, and the story behind the upcoming documentary on the rise of legal operations.  

Topics 

Introduction and Ron Bell’s journey in legal operations: 00:00
Early legal career and the growing need for collaboration in legal teams: 01:40
How paralegals shaped operational thinking in legal teams: 04:54
The origins of legal operations: Connie Brenton, Yahoo, and building the first legal ops community: 08:34
Advice for legal ops professionals on getting leadership buy-in: 13:22
Rethinking legal education, AI, and the future role of lawyers in business and legal operations: 15:07
Apprenticeship, hands-on learning, and preparing future lawyers: 18:58
Comparing the impact of AI to the rise of email: 21:30
Using AI to automate procurement and legal intake workflows: 24:40
Why people and process must come before technology in legal ops: 26:34
How AI will reshape legal careers, legal teams, and legal operations: 30:24
The story behind the legal operations documentary and the future of the profession: 42:27  

Connect with us:
Ron Bell - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronsbell/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 11: From Yahoo to AI: Ron Bell on Reinventing Legal Operations

In this episode of Beacon Voices, Akshay Verma (COO at SpotDraft) sits down with Kunoor Chopra, Co-founder and Vice President at Elevate, to explore the evolution of legal operations and why it has become central to the modern legal function.

Kunoor shares her journey from traditional law firm practice to building one of the earliest legal process outsourcing (LPO) companies, and how that experience exposed the inefficiencies in legal services. She reflects on the early days of legal ops, before it had a name, and how a growing community helped turn it into a global movement.  

The conversation also dives into AI, legal education, talent gaps, and the future of legal teams. Kunoor explains why AI is accelerating transformation, not replacing lawyers and why aligning people, process, technology, and data is key to turning legal from a cost center into a strategic business partner.  



Topics
Introduction: 00:00
Kunoor Chopra’s background, upbringing, and decision to pursue law: 02:20
Law school experience, community, and personal growth: 04:06
Early legal career: law firm journey and exploring different paths: 04:56
Realizing inefficiencies in law firms and questioning the traditional model: 06:37
Entrepreneurial leap: starting an LPO in India and early challenges: 09:06
Building and scaling a legal outsourcing business (services, clients, operations): 13:48
Learning business fundamentals: SLAs, processes, and global delivery: 15:05
From selling the company to co-founding Elevate: 17:17
The emergence of legal operations and early community-building (pre-Corporate Legal Operations Consortium era): 19:34
Growth and impact of legal ops as a function: 21:25
Future of legal operations: people, process, technology, and data: 26:49
Talent gaps, legal education, and preparing the next generation: 30:34
AI in legal and key takeaways on the future of the profession: 35:20  

Connect with us:
Kunoor Chopra - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kunoorc/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft  

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 10:  AI in Legal Ops: Hype vs Reality with Kunoor Chopra

What does it take to turn legal into a strategic business driver?

In this episode, Oyango Snell, President & CEO of CLOC, shares his journey from law firms and public policy to leading the legal ops movement. He explains how discovering legal operations changed his approach—helping legal teams move from a “department of no” to a function that drives efficiency, alignment, and business impact.

The conversation covers the growing role of legal ops, gaps in legal education, and how AI is reshaping the profession—along with what legal teams must do to stay relevant.

Topics  
Introduction 00:00
Early life, upbringing in Chicago, and inspiration to pursue law: 00:56
Law school journey: rejections, persistence, and transfer to Ohio State University 06:00
Law school experience and focus on securing a job early: 08:09
Entering law firm life: expectations vs reality and early learning curve: 10:37
Transition to in-house and building legal ops function: 14:22
Journey to CLOC and leadership motivation: 18:50
Why legal operations matters: bridging law and business impact: 21:10
Gaps in legal education and the need for tech + AI integration: 23:59
AI in legal: ethical considerations, risks, and governance: 28:09
Future of Legal Operations & the Profession: 33:30
Standardization & Challenges in Legal Ops: 37:55
Evolution of Legal Ops Talent & Skill Gaps: 41:41
Legal Ops Documentary & Industry Storytelling: 45:24

Connect with us:  
Oyango Snell - https://www.linkedin.com/in/oyango-a-snell-esq-cae/  
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/  
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 09: Legal Is Broken. Here’s How Legal Ops Fixes It

What does it take to turn legal from a bottleneck into a business enabler?  

Sean Rayani, Global Head of Legal Operations at Twilio, shares his unconventional journey from aspiring prosecutor to legal ops leader. He unpacks how early exposure to inefficiencies shaped his mindset, how Twilio’s rapid growth influenced his career. From manually handling contracts to building scalable systems at a high-growth company, he breaks down how legal teams can operate smarter, faster, and with real business impact.  

The conversation covers practical frameworks for legal ops, the right way to think about tools and AI, and why the future of legal isn’t about perfection, it’s about progress.    

Topics
Introduction: 00:00
Early life, family expectations, and ambition to become a prosecutor: 02:14
Motivation to pursue law and desire to create impact through justice: 06:35
Rethinking law school and exploring alternative career paths: 10:06
First role at OpenTable and discovering inefficiencies in legal processes: 13:32
Joining Twilio: early responsibilities, scaling, and IPO experience: 18:15
Building confidence through international experience (Dublin): 23:16
Learning to make decisions with imperfect information: 26:59
Transition into legal operations and expanding scope: 30:52
Building scalable contracting systems and reducing friction: 35:37
Legal ops framework: people, process, data, technology, and AI: 37:30
AI in legal: mindset shift from perfection to assistance: 48:11
Advice for legal ops professionals: intake, problem-solving, and focus: 54:25
Career lessons and long-term vision (COO, public office): 59:29    

Connect with us:
Sean Rayani - https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanrayani/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 08: The Real Role of AI in Legal Teams

What does it take to succeed as a lawyer in a world shaped by AI, speed, and constant change?  

Natalie Kim, VP of Legal at Omnidian, breaks down how modern in-house lawyers must go beyond legal expertise to think like operators. She shares her journey from Big Law to in-house, the shift toward building legal as a product, and the biggest inefficiencies holding legal teams back today.  

The conversation also dives into AI’s growing impact on legal work—from automation and productivity gains to leadership challenges and trust in AI systems—along with practical advice on building a future-ready legal career.   

Topics
Introduction: 00:00
Early interest in law, public policy, and problem-solving mindset: 01:41Law school expectations vs reality and desire for practical work: 03:53
Experiential learning through clinics and internships: 06:19
Big Law decision: training, constraints, and early career expectations: 09:40
Reality of Big Law: skill-building, pressure, and volume-driven learning: 12:21
Transition to in-house: timing, trade-offs, and unlearning law firm habits: 14:32
First in-house role at Cisco and becoming a generalist lawyer: 20:04
Building legal as a product: process, scalability, and long-term thinking: 25:44
The biggest problem in legal: inefficiency, context switching, and reactive work: 28:13
Why legal work becomes suboptimal: volume, accessibility, and manual processes: 31:39
AI and productivity: doing more vs doing better work: 36:56
AI adoption strategy: leadership, governance, and building the right foundation: 42:16
Will AI replace lawyers? Workstream shifts and new roles emerging: 45:29
Advice for law students and future career outlook in an AI-driven world: 53:13   

Connect with us:
Natalie Kim - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nekim1/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 07:  The Real Problem with In-House Legal Teams

In this episode of Beacon Voices, Natalie Salunke shares her journey from law firm challenges to becoming a fractional General Counsel. She talks about shifting from academic law to business-focused legal work, the rise of legal ops, and why modern lawyers must think beyond traditional roles.  

The conversation also explores the impact of AI, the importance of data-driven legal teams, and why “selling the human” matters in today’s legal landscape. Natalie closes with practical advice on resilience, mindset, and building a flexible, future-ready legal career.   

Read a detailed summary: www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-06  

Topics
Introduction 00:00
Early career choices: why Natalie chose law and diverse academic interests: 01:09
Legal education systems (UK vs US) and evolving access to the profession (SQE): 03:55
Law students today: post-COVID learning gaps and practical vs academic law: 07:36
Changing legal career paths: beyond law firms to tech, ops, and alternative roles: 10:24
Law firm experience, toxic culture, career pivot to in-house, rapid growth, and early leadership journey: 13:18
Early legal ops, leadership transition, and building a structured, service-driven legal function: 18:55
Data-driven legal teams: aligning legal with business metrics and operations: 23:10
Journey to fractional GC: burnout, misalignment, and redefining career control: 25:28
Fractional GC model: portfolio work, pricing philosophy, and “selling the human”: 32:02
Technology and AI in legal: evolution, adoption, and impact on legal work: 41:23
Advice to law students and future outlook: mindset, resilience, and career vision: 47:49   

Connect with us:
Natalie Salunke - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliesalunke/?originalSubdomain=uk
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 06: How Natalie Salunke Reinvented the Legal Career Path

What does a successful legal career look like in the age of AI, and does it still follow the traditional Big Law path?  

In this episode of Beacon Voices, Akshay Verma speaks with Wei Wang, Associate General Counsel for GTM and Strategic Partnerships at TRM Labs, about her unconventional journey into in-house law. Wei shares how starting at Google during law school shaped her career across companies like Stanford, Accenture, Uber, and TRM Labs.  

They discuss what it takes to succeed as an in-house lawyer today, from thinking like a business partner to adapting to the rapid rise of AI in legal work. The conversation also offers practical advice for law students and lawyers navigating the evolving legal profession.   

Read a detailed summary: www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-5-10  

Topics
Introduction: 00:00
Wei Wang’s background and move from the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe: 03:11
Discovering law through speech and debate and early career motivations: 05:19
Law school expectations and the pressure to pursue Big Law: 05:40
Getting an in-house start at Google and entering the tech legal world: 07:17
Trusting your instincts vs following traditional legal career paths: 09:37
Career growth through Google, Stanford, Accenture, Uber, and TRM Labs: 12:03
What makes a successful in-house lawyer today: 19:14
How large companies differ from startups in legal roles and culture: 26:22
Developing operational thinking and legal ops skills in-house: 30:57
Choosing legal tech tools and why process should come before technology: 35:31
How AI is being used in legal teams today: 41:22
AI’s future in law and advice for lawyers navigating the AI era: 44:38
Experimenting with AI responsibly and building AI literacy: 52:08
Advice for law students and the future of legal careers: 55:17  

Connect with us:
Wei Wang  - https://www.linkedin.com/in/weiwang1/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 05: From Google to Startup: A Lawyer’s Unconventional Path

In this episode of Beacon Voices, Akshay Verma speaks with Sachin Bansal, former President of SecurityScorecard and a seasoned cybersecurity operator, about an unconventional legal career journey.  

Sachin shares how he moved from Big Law to in-house leadership, and ultimately into senior operating roles: navigating pivots driven by market disruption, technology shifts, and the rise of AI. The conversation explores what modern legal leaders must unlearn, how legal operations and AI reshape efficiency, and why business judgment, not just legal accuracy, is now the defining skill.   

Read a detailed summary: www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-04   

Topics
Introduction: 00:00
Current role and advisory work in cybersecurity and private equity: 01:38
Growing up as a first-generation immigrant and discovering a love for language and problem-solving: 03:08
Choosing law school, early inspirations, and the realities of legal careers: 04:41
Big Law realities: elite training, partnership pressure, and the cost of not having a niche: 10:04
Career pivots in practice: banking secondments, market shocks, and adaptability: 13:19
Learning to pivot: why linear legal careers don’t survive real-world disruption: 15:36
From lawyer to operator: filling business gaps during hypergrowth and COVID: 29:14
Letting go of the GC title and stepping fully into an operating role: 33:33
Developing business judgment: mindset shifts from advisor to owner: 36:41
Legal technology’s evolution from eDiscovery to revenue-enabling infrastructure: 45:39
AI in legal teams: saving time, cost, and risk while keeping humans in the loop: 56:45
Advice to law students and young lawyers: MBAs, AI fluency, and staying adaptable: 1:01:00
Looking ahead: growing as an operator and measuring impact beyond titles: 1:02:57

Connect with us:
Sachin Bansal  - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachinsbansal/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues.   Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 04: When Legal Judgment Becomes Business Judgment

In this episode of Beacon Voices, Akshay Verma sits down with Louis Shansky, General Counsel at global FinTech company Tilt, to explore what modern in-house legal leadership really looks like. From surviving the 2008 financial crisis at a top law firm to building lean legal teams across multiple countries, Louis shares how judgment, operational thinking, and adaptability matter more than rigid legal frameworks. The conversation dives deep into legal operations, AI-driven efficiency, law firm economics, and why today’s lawyers must think like business partners—not just risk spotters.   

Read a detailed summary: www.spotdraft.com/podcast/episode-03

Topics
Introduction: 00:00
Louis Shansky on leading the global legal function at Tilt and overseeing multi-jurisdiction operations: 01:07
Early career motivations: music, logic, and choosing law school later than peers: 02:12
Lessons from touring as a punk rock musician and how logistics shaped operational thinking: 04:06
Entering Big Law during the securitization boom and learning structured finance on the fly: 10:24
Experiencing the 2008 financial crisis inside a capital markets practice: 12:35
Surviving Big Law layoffs and carving out value through diligence and adaptability: 16:51
Why success in Big Law led to partnership—but not long-term fulfilment: 25:09
Moving in-house at a FinTech startup and leveraging niche expertise to reduce risk: 30:27
Learning to recalibrate legal advice for business realities and risk tolerance: 33:09
How Louis builds lean in-house legal teams around core business risks: 37:13
Legal operations without headcount: tools, efficiency, and rolling up sleeves: 44:26
AI’s role in automating legal workflows and reshaping law firm value –49:50
Rapid-fire round: 56:40     

Connect with us:
Louis Shansky - https://www.linkedin.com/in/louis-shansky-b501246/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft   

SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.

EP 03: From Punk Rock to General Counsel: Louis Shansky on Building Modern In-House Legal Teams

Savvy and strong legal leadership is only becoming more critical in a complex world.

On The Abstract, we'll be interviewing leading legal executives about how they’ve nurtured their careers, grown in their roles, and become true operators within their businesses. At some points, we’ll deal with the pressure of leadership.

We care deeply about helping in-house counsel grow alongside each other. Join us for insightful and interesting conversations with legal leaders.

The Abstract

Beacon Voices is SpotDraft’s podcast spotlighting the people shaping how legal really works today. Hosted by Akshay Verma, it features candid conversations on leadership, legal ops, and the real-world impact of AI in legal teams.

Beacon Voices

Akshay Verma - COO at SpotDraft and Host of the podcast "Beacon Voices"

Beacon Voices

Shows