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#17: First year safety pro syndrome
87 Plays7 years ago
Series host Jill James connects with Katie, a safety specialist in manufacturing from the Milwaukee area. Katie is one of the few who began higher education with a focus on occupational safety, earning a Bachelor of Arts and Masters in health and safety. With 6 years of experience, Katie is a member of the new generation of safety professionals who benefited from increased access to formal education in the field. Podcast fans will learn from Katie’s story about maximizing internship opportunities, where mentorship may be found along your career, and the importance of business-skill fluency in the safety job. Her words of wisdom? Priorities change; values don’t.
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Transcript
Introduction to Katie's Safety Journey
00:00:10
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by Vivid Learning Systems and the Health and Safety Institute. This is episode number 17. My name is Jill James, Vivid's Chief Safety Officer, and today I'm joined by Katie, who is a safety specialist from the Greater Milwaukee area and works in the manufacturing industry. Katie, welcome to the show.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Katie, I am so excited to have you on as a guest because you are very new to safety and very new by way of haven't been doing it for that many years. But also you recently completed your master's degree in safety. So congratulations. Thanks. Thank you. Finally done.
00:00:53
Speaker
So, I mean, when I say recent, I mean like you just like within days, right?
Childhood Influences on Career Path
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, right. Like the, I think the Friday before Christmas, I got the email that I had passed and I was finished. So congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a big deal. It was great.
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, Katie, I'm interested to lead with the question that we always ask in the podcast is how did you find yourself interested in safety? And I know I've heard a little tiny bit about your story and I can't wait to hear the rest of it. So share. How'd you get into safety?
Impact of Miller Park Crane Collapse
00:01:36
Speaker
Well, you know, like I had told you when we had our first conversation, you know, I don't think anybody goes to kindergarten and says, this is what I want to be when I grow up.
00:01:44
Speaker
You know, when I went to kindergarten, all the other kids wanted to be, you know, a firefighter or a princess or a doctor. And I wanted to be a cow cleaner at the Wisconsin State Fair. That didn't really work out for me. I found out that that wasn't really, you know, the most, um, desirable career path. Okay, Katie, we've, we've got to just, we've just got to clarify, like.
00:02:06
Speaker
How did you find out about a job maybe as a cow cleaner and what does that mean in your little girl mind? When we were growing up, I have one brother and we would go to the state fair with my mom and dad every year. When you go through the livestock barns outside of it, these people are washing their cows.
00:02:29
Speaker
I guess walking through the livestock barns, I thought that looked like the best job because I would see people bathing their cows before the cow shows. I guess that was where I got the idea because I hadn't really remembered that I said that until a little later on in my life and my parents were like, oh yeah, no, that's not what you wanted to be. You wanted to be a cow cleaner.
00:02:53
Speaker
I was kind of like, wait, what? So I got over that pretty quickly, thankfully, I think to my parents' relief. But I figured you wouldn't necessarily be able to sustain a living and pay the rent. Yeah, I wasn't going to be going to. Simply by washing cows.
00:03:08
Speaker
Yeah, you know, cow washing does not, you know, on its own, I'm sure, you know, pay the bills and whatnot. But I did work in like a horse barn for a while. So it, you know, I did get to try it out. And, you know, I did like brushing the horses. So it was nice. Is something very therapeutic to working with animals? Absolutely. It is. It is. But yeah, actually, I was thinking a lot about this over, you know, over the weekend since we talked about how I got into safety. And it's kind of always been
00:03:36
Speaker
I think something that was a very natural progression for me, my earliest safety memory is something that is actually kind of special I think for myself and my brother. When I was seven years old, the big blue crane collapse occurred at Miller Park.
00:03:55
Speaker
You know three people were killed in that accident and it was just it was a huge deal and the day I think it was the day afterwards my my mom took my brother and I up to the park nearby and we surveyed the scene and it was just such a profound moment for me and I just I could not believe that had happened.
00:04:14
Speaker
I was pretty little, but it was just like, wow, it was nuts. In the summers, my mom would have us keep journals just so we could remember how to write and whatnot. I recently found my journal from that summer, and it said a little bit about how sad that was. I just said, oh, it was really sad that people died at this accident. I've never really forgotten it, and I think about that quite often.
00:04:39
Speaker
And I didn't know what safety as a job was at that time. And the older I got, I would just think about that every now and then and be like, man, why did that happen? And how could this have occurred? And these people are still dead. It's horrible.
00:04:53
Speaker
And every time I go to Miller Park, that's what I think of. Yeah, because it's hallowed ground there.
Shift from Ecology to Safety Studies
00:05:00
Speaker
It definitely is. Yeah, it was really kind of crazy. But when I was a little older, I remember being on a carnival ride with one of my friends, and I was pointing out how I thought some of the bolts were rusty or how... I'm not a big thrill ride person. I'm afraid of pretty much everything, scary heights, speed, etc.
00:05:20
Speaker
Risk adverse. Risk adverse. I really like that term. But I pointed out all these flaws and my friend goes, you know, someday you should be like a safety inspector.
00:05:31
Speaker
because you could find these things." And I was like, oh yeah. And she goes, and you'd be the most feared safety inspector. And now looking back like, that's not really how it should be, but yeah. And of course, like many people when I turned 17, 18 years old, I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life.
00:05:51
Speaker
I thought I wanted to study ecology because I love it. I think it's so interesting and I really love the outdoors and wildlife. I really wanted to go to school for that, but I'm very bad at chemistry and other math things that you need to be good at science. Someone that I knew that had studied ecology said to me, it's a great field and if you have passion for it, you can be very successful, but I would recommend it as either a minor or something.
00:06:21
Speaker
So you can, you know, have other options. And I was kind of like, Oh, okay, whatever. But, um, my, my brother actually was a freshman at UW Whitewater for occupational safety and health. And yeah, so I learned safety people in one family. Yeah.
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of the double whammy. But through that, I found out that Whitewater offered a new environmental emphasis that would allow me to take the science classes that I really wanted to take, but still, you know,
00:06:52
Speaker
be in a more active field where I wouldn't have to be outside year-round in Wisconsin. I don't want to say have a job at graduation because I don't really know how that works for ecologists, but I wanted something a little more guaranteed. I entered my freshman year of college as a declared safety major.
00:07:14
Speaker
Had a few existential crises after that, but I stayed the course and I got my bachelor's in safety and health and then a few years later my master's so
00:07:25
Speaker
That's how I got here. That's a great story. And I'm just thinking about your friend who was kind of calling you out on your expertise and, you know, being a predictor of the future when you're still really pretty young. Yeah. Yeah. I, like I said, I was afraid of like everything. So, you know, it was, I think it was like the Ferris wheel or, and I commented on how, you know, anything that can be taken apart that quickly is probably not that safe or something. And, you know, Oh, I don't want to ride on this, but I did it anyway. And I survived. So.
Early Career and Mentorship
00:07:55
Speaker
Well, I can tell you a little Ferris wheel story. I had a yeah, right. I had a co-worker in one job ago who he told I was asking him he was from South Africa.
00:08:12
Speaker
And originally, and I said, tell me your story. How did you get to the United States? And we were both working in the poultry industry at the time. And I said, how did this path happen for you? And he said, I was a ferris wheel inspector. Really? Yeah, safety ferris wheel inspector. And he followed this particular ferris wheel that's set up at different state fairs like you're talking about where you wanted to be the cow cleaner.
00:08:39
Speaker
And yeah, right? And so his job was to travel around and inspect them. And when he, when they would get set up, he'd have to ride the Ferris wheel and do his inspection, of course. And so he jumped on it one day and sitting across from him and the Ferris wheel was his future wife. Oh, wow. That's so great.
00:08:57
Speaker
Right? And so there was a romantic story along with the Ferris wheel in addition to there really are safety inspectors that go with the traveling Ferris wheels. So you and I can be, we can breathe a little bit better about our risk aversion because I share that with you.
00:09:14
Speaker
The Ferris wheel is a scary thing. I mean, those seats, they rock and it goes up high. So, yeah, it's a little scary. Yeah, that's very cool though. Maybe someone listening to this is like a real Ferris wheel inspector and they'll want to be a guest on the podcast. So if anybody here has that expertise, Katie and I want to hear all about it.
00:09:35
Speaker
I absolutely do. So Katie, you finished your bachelor's degree. When you finished that, is that when you kind of dropped into your first job as a safety specialist or you need an internship? Or yeah, what did that what did that look like for people who are maybe just starting out?
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I can really only speak to my program. But that was a really big draw for me was that to complete my program, I had to complete an internship for, I think, 13 credits. And I don't know if that's still the same credit amount, but that's what it was when I was a student.
00:10:12
Speaker
And so I had my final semester of school as an intern up in the Fox Valley region of Wisconsin. And I loved it. I mean, it was just the best time. We made military trucks. And so it was just super fun. And we got to drive them sometimes. It was just really cool. And I graduated and got a job offer from this company on the same Friday. I've never been that productive on a Friday.
00:10:41
Speaker
Since then. That's awesome. But it was a good day. That's awesome. Did your program help you find that internship or did you seek it out on your own? Yeah, it was a result of a guest speaker that came to our student safety organization and I interviewed with him afterwards. So, you know, participate in those kinds of things because that's a great way to seek out opportunities and network and
00:11:05
Speaker
You know, even if you don't want the internship, because I mean, my interview with them was supposed to be a practice and they sucked me in. You know, I don't even want to say I drank the Kool-Aid because it was a really wonderful experience. It was fantastic. And so did you accept the job?
00:11:20
Speaker
I did, yeah. I was very, very fortunate in my early career. And I don't think I know anybody else that has had this opportunity where I was overseen by a safety professional who had many years of experience. And he supervised me, he was there every day and so was I. So I had a lot of guidance. And then I also had multiple other safety professionals that I could spend the day with and
Career Satisfaction and Value Alignment
00:11:45
Speaker
learn from.
00:11:45
Speaker
right in the same town. Oh, in the same town, okay. Yeah, with the company. We had a big team and it was, you know, so I was able to learn and I was able to really get wonderful guidance. So, you know, I would have been kind of silly to not accept the job. And it was a great ride. Unfortunately, the defense industry does have layoffs in it. So I was laid off about like a year or so, like a year and a half afterwards, but that's okay. You know, I have, like I said, I have nothing but wonderful things to say about that time.
00:12:15
Speaker
After that, it took me quite a bit to find where I needed to be and where I felt happy.
00:12:23
Speaker
in this field and where I felt like was the right place for me. I really love where I'm at right now and I feel like this is where I'm meant to do my best. It's great. Did you have a couple other stopping points after the defense one to where you are right now? Yeah, a few.
00:12:46
Speaker
It's funny because I was listening to the most recent episode of this podcast on my way home today and I noticed that the gentleman was saying something about how he was
00:13:00
Speaker
spoiled because he had an opportunity to start over and work somewhere where it seemed really easy all of a sudden. I think he was going from a chemical plant to a hydro plant or something. Yes, that's his name. Thank you.
00:13:19
Speaker
Um, so I, I kind of felt like that at first where I got to join, um, a company where I was the only one that did what I did. And looking back, I'm like, that was, that was really stupid. Um, I was very young and while I, you know, I have what I call first year safety pro syndrome where, you know, I thought I knew everything and I was super smart. Well, yeah, when you have somebody that you can default and ask questions of every day who can tell you when you're doing something wrong,
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, your job is a lot easier than having to make those decisions and tell people- Wonder if it's right. Yeah, exactly. That was really, really difficult and I knew it wasn't for me. Then I had another brief stop after that and that really wasn't for me either. Where I'm at now, I feel so much better. I am the only one that does what I do, but I'm okay with that at this point. One of the biggest things that I've learned
00:14:14
Speaker
is that mentors come in all sorts of forms. They don't have to be a safety professional to teach you how to be a good employee. Yeah, tell us more about that. I agree with you 100%. But tell us more about that, especially if someone's just getting started and they're looking for those mentors. When you say it's not necessarily somebody in safety, talk about an experience or what you learned. That's valuable. Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
A few years ago in the company I worked for, I had started out working for one safety manager who is someone I respect very much. He is super funny. We get along really well. We still talk every now and then. But he left the company to seek a different opportunity.
00:14:59
Speaker
And, you know, he gave me really wonderful advice. He was kind of like, you know, I'm grouchy and I can grumble that all, you know, safety is dumb, but that's why I do it because, you know, I want to make sure I do my best so that people don't have to grumble about it and whatnot. And he told me, you know, you're too young to have that attitude. Make sure you, you know, stay positive and whatnot.
00:15:17
Speaker
So I was like, oh, yeah, great. And after he left, I started working for somebody else. And I kind of looked to that person to be my mentor. And that really didn't mesh. I felt like we didn't have the same values and we didn't practice the same way. And that person didn't really try to get to know me.
00:15:32
Speaker
which was really frustrating because I felt like it didn't understand me. I feel like I sound like every parent is like 16-year-old. They go, you don't understand me and you don't like the things I like, but it was difficult because I wanted to be my best for this person. I felt like we weren't really clicking.
00:15:55
Speaker
Having a mentor in the manufacturing engineering manager at one of my locations and he Turned out to be a fantastic mentor for me He would take me aside after meetings and be like hey I know that you're trying to pitch this right now and I wanted to you know give you some feedback I think that you know this is
00:16:13
Speaker
maybe you know this way of pitching this idea i don't think that's gonna work because of xyz but i really i think it's a great idea and i think if we tweak that a little bit we can really get some success and be like oh yeah that's great so you know he helped me a lot to get like you know a really expensive order of security cameras you know approved and
00:16:31
Speaker
and all kinds of really great things like that. He's still someone that I look to a lot. On my last day with that org, I sat in his office and I was like, my exit interview is coming up and I'm really glad that you were here for me and you looked out for me quite a bit. We're still friends as well. I talk with him quite a bit still, but that was really when that stood out to me that I was able to learn something
00:16:58
Speaker
about my career from someone who didn't talk to me about safety. So that was cool. Yeah. And he taught you some business skills. He really did. He did. And one of the things that was really great for Whitewater is they had a program when I was still in school for my bachelor's degree, where they set us up with mentors, if you were interested.
00:17:19
Speaker
And my mentor was fantastic. We still speak like maybe like once a year, but he would really talk to me about, you know, what not to, I guess, let me restart.
00:17:35
Speaker
My mentor that I had through Whitewater would talk to me a lot about how not to lose myself in this field. That was the best advice I could get. I think I know what you mean by that, but tell me what it meant to you when you heard that, how not to lose yourself. He told me priorities change, but values don't.
00:18:03
Speaker
is the most profound advice I think I've gotten in my entire career and it applies to my life, my work, everything. And he said, your values may not change. Because I remember he asked me something about, what do you care about?
00:18:18
Speaker
I said oh you know like my family and you know my dog or whatever and and he said no you know what what matters in life to you and I had listed off a few things and he just said okay though you need to write those down and you should never accept an opportunity that you know would challenge those values you know for example like if you care a lot about the environment you should make sure that you don't
00:18:42
Speaker
Except work with a company that does fracking or something. Something that would be averse to your beliefs. Correct. Yes. That was beautiful advice. Thank you. That was beautiful advice.
00:18:59
Speaker
I've written about that in a similar way before and sometimes I call it the line in the sand and knowing what your line in the sand is and knowing, especially when you're trying, we don't win everything when it comes to safety as you've probably picked up.
00:19:18
Speaker
even though you haven't been in it that long. But we don't, right? And so we know that there's business decisions that have to be made. Sometimes they're shades of gray and it's not black and white and easy. But if you know what your value is, you know what your values are rather, you know what that, you know, this won't happen on my watch, here's my line, then it makes it easier for you to know when you should dig in and when you shouldn't. And yeah.
00:19:44
Speaker
I recall from your episode of the accidental safety professional that you had said that during your time with an organization that you realized that it was time for you to stop collecting a paycheck because your beliefs did not align. That really resounded with me really strongly because I'm sure so many people have been there and it's okay to part ways to say, I can't do this anymore.
00:20:12
Speaker
After that, you know, don't let it ruin your view of safety. I mean, I've had so many existential crises within my career where I'm like, Oh, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, what am I doing? And, you know, is this even gonna be, you know, worth my time, but, you know, never forget why you went into it in the first place. And, you know, what matters to you?
00:20:32
Speaker
Yeah, right. And it goes back to those values. I recently did an exercise on determining what your two core values are.
Pursuing Advanced Studies in Safety
00:20:41
Speaker
And you think, two, whoa, like, how do you get your values down to two? And it was an exercise I did in a leadership book I just finished, called Dare to Lead. And it's by an author that I really admire, a social scientist named Brené Brown.
00:20:57
Speaker
And so I went through this exercise and I had a team go through this exercise with me a couple of weeks ago too where you come up with your two values. And my two core values ended up being dignity and perseverance. And I'm like, okay, perseverance, that makes total sense to me. Like I do persevere through things in my life and I can come up with all kinds of personal and professional perseverance stories in my head. And then dignity,
00:21:27
Speaker
that's why I get kind of riled up at certain things. If I feel someone's dignity, whether it's my own family members and employees, people aren't being treated the same or fairly, that kind of gets under my skin. And so since I did that exercise, when I'm really into something, whether I'm thinking this is the best, this is the most fun, I'm so
00:21:51
Speaker
I'm so dedicated to this. I want to see it done. Or, oh man, time to dig my heels in. Line has been crossed. I look at it and go, huh, which value is this? Oh, yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
That one. I really like that. Yeah. Anyway, so I took a team through it and everybody came up with something different and we shared stories about why did you pick that? What does it mean in your life and how do you live it out in your home life and in your work life? I really like that a lot. I'm definitely going to pocket that idea for later. I've got some places that we can certainly use that.
00:22:30
Speaker
That's very cool. Thank you for sharing. Oh, yeah, you're welcome. So I'm interested to hear you've been so you've been a practicing safety professional for how many years now?
00:22:42
Speaker
I am coming up on my sixth year in June, but I still feel like it's only been a year sometimes. Yeah. The line is, hello, my name is Katie. I'm just getting started. Hello, my name is Jo. I mean, that's it. That's life. It's always a chapter, chapter next, chapter next. So at what point did you decide that you're going to go back to grad school? And why did you decide to do that?
00:23:10
Speaker
That's a great question. I decided about three months after I got out of school that I wanted to go back to grad school and I think my big
00:23:23
Speaker
reasoning for it. It kind of goes back to that saying that you do your undergrad because you have to, but your graduate work is for yourself because you want to. And I think that's really true. I chose to go back to school because one of my long-term career goals, hopefully all things go well, I would love to teach someday. That's quite a distance someday. And in order to be a credible professor,
00:23:51
Speaker
You need to, you know, have, you know, quite a bit of acronyms after your name, if you will. And that's felt like the most natural choice for me. In addition to, you know, I love to learn and I'm sure, you know, some of my professors are hearing this and they're probably chuckling because they remember how horrible of a student I was at times. I'm not a great student. I'm really bad with due dates when it comes to my homework sometimes because I get really caught up in wanting to find this one answer or
00:24:21
Speaker
overloading a certain topic and whatnot. I would have to back up and that was something that I learned in time, thankfully for grad school. I wanted to learn more and I was looking forward to taking version 2.0 of my classes from the professors that I so admired.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so it sent you back to, it sent you back to grad school. So how, how, so you've been trying to, you've been successfully doing a job and going to grad school at the same time for anybody who's maybe thinking about that. How did it go for you? And do you have any advice for people who might be in the middle of it or contemplating it? I mean, do it, you know, the only person that can hold you back is yourself. Um, you know,
00:25:09
Speaker
you you have to make the time you really do and i i can't i can't really say it was that difficult for me i mean it was i guess but i don't have children uh... you know i'm married but we don't have kids so i look at some of my classmates who have kids and a job and you know have so much more on their plate and they they made it work very very well for them uh... but what i would say is use your calendar make time for your schoolwork uh... and you know of course
00:25:39
Speaker
You know, make sure you apply, you know, your work to your schooling and your schooling to your work. But yeah, I mean, you know, if you want it, go get it. Wonderful. And so while you were in grad school, were you able to apply? What you were just saying, like, were you sort of using your current job for a test ground to test out new things that you were learning?
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I have a couple examples of how well it went. I guess I'll pick one. I had learned through my job how to do 5-Y analysis. In my system safety class, we were having a discussion about how a particular accident could have been prevented.
00:26:24
Speaker
And I don't remember the exact boat name, but it was like a boat that sank in England and they had to, you know, they opened these bay doors to vent out some smoke and the boat got swamped and sank. And I remember being able to use that 5Y tool really was a lot of fun too. And I felt like I was like, yes. And I got to the conclusion that, you know, they shouldn't have to open those doors. Like the smoke is the problem.
00:26:51
Speaker
And my professor was like, there you go. You know, you got it. I was like, yes. So that was, you know, a little win. It was good. Yeah, I definitely had a hard time with like, I remember I was very young still. It feels weird to say that.
00:27:08
Speaker
sometimes, but I was like only like a year or two into my career. And I was taking a class on disaster response and recovery, which was amazing. I loved it. And I had to kind of like write a business continuity plan. And I didn't do very well because I was like, oh, my site doesn't really have an emergency response plan that is like really thorough. It was kind of like, oh, if there's a fire, everybody leave. So that I struggled a lot with.
00:27:38
Speaker
And looking back, I would have reached out to some of my resources a lot more and I would have asked for help. But I was, you know, young. And like I said, I thought I knew everything. So I was like, oh, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. It was not fine.
00:27:48
Speaker
And then on the flip side, did having the experience you did in the career, the years of experience you had and the fact that you were actively working in the practice, do you think that enriched or helped your pursuit of your master's degree as well? Absolutely. Compared to being in undergrad.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely it did because I remember being an undergraduate student and not knowing what the heck we were talking about sometimes because like many fields, I'm sure, you know, in safety, we
00:28:24
Speaker
we don't always understand it on paper, but in practice it's like, oh, that makes sense. So yeah, that was kind of a lot easier the second time around to be able to say, oh, here's my example of this, or I can apply that particular tool to this.
Building Credibility and Self-Improvement
00:28:43
Speaker
It was a lot easier and more fun.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, so Katie, I'm interested to hear how have you worked on building your street cred as someone as someone new and female in our industry, you know, young rather. And yeah, yeah, what what sort of things have you done? Can't believe you did or, you know, was a was a great win or something that might plant a seed for someone else.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. I was just talking about this with someone today about how, you know, being a female in manufacturing can be kind of weird, but I'm okay with it. I mean, a lot of my good friends are boys. So, you know, I was often one of the only women in my class at school or, you know, whatever. So I was kind of just used to it. But for me, I think the biggest thing that has really helped me build my credibility is to always be myself.
00:29:38
Speaker
I have tried to be other people, you know, to make, you know, a boss happy or a plant manager happy. And it just, you know, there's never really a role you can play as well as you can play yourself. So, you know, that really helps me. And I've had people say to me, one of my mentors said to me, he was like, you know, you're kind of out there. Like you can be a little weird sometimes, but it works for you.
00:30:04
Speaker
And it works for us because you're always yourself and you're a real person. Um, I don't try and, you know, act like I know things I don't know. I am the first person to say, Hey, really don't know what that, you know, what you're talking about. Can you, you know, can we go look, can you, you know, talk me through that a little more and that seems to help. Yeah, that seems to help a lot. Cause people see that, you know, I do genuinely care and, and whatnot, but you know,
00:30:29
Speaker
I need them to teach me a little more and I think that kind of helps because it gives, you know, they see that, you know, I don't care what your job title is, I respect you if you, you know, are a respectful person. And I'm, you know, I know that every person has a lesson they can teach me and that seems to have helped the most. You're being authentically yourself and that's your value. That's wonderful.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's great. And you know, so true, everybody has something to teach us, right, whether it's whether it's the thing that we would never replicate, and we go, Oh, I would not do that. Or that is a great tip tool, you know, learning, whatever it is, someone's tribal knowledge that they share with you. And, you know, we kind of file all that stuff away.
00:31:15
Speaker
Yeah, I had a gentleman stop by recently after a training and it was so fantastic that he did this for me. He's, I think he works in like one of our assembly departments. He's a great guy for listening. Thank you. He stopped by and he said, you know, I think you're very young, but you're very smart. And he said, but I noticed he's like, I think you have a nervous tick where you like,
00:31:39
Speaker
like play with your hair a little bit. And I was like, oh, wow, hey, that must be really annoying. And he was like, yeah, a little bit. I was like, thank you so much for telling me that I actually really appreciate it. And he was like, I can't tell if you're like saying that because you want me to leave or I'm like, no, I really appreciate it. Thank you.
00:31:57
Speaker
I'd be a fool not to listen to you because obviously it was memorable and I don't want you to just remember that. And now I'm very mindful of that. I'm really glad that he said that to me. That's awesome. I personally try to remember that about my Midwest accent, but it just doesn't work when I'm working on trying not to accentuate my O's.
00:32:20
Speaker
Oh, me too. It happens all the time. Both of us being from the Midwest, yeah. Yeah, I didn't think that was a thing until I listened to a training I recorded and it was like, oh God, that was painful. It was like so Wisconsin. That's awesome.
Strategic Decision Making in Safety
00:32:38
Speaker
Katie, with regard to business acumen, because you started telling a story earlier about the mentor who pulled you aside when you were trying to do an ask for something that you needed to acquire some funds for and get approval for, what are some best practices or things that you've learned or that you'd like to share, things that are outside of safety but impact our practice so much?
00:33:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I've learned when it comes to, you know, being good at sales is especially when it comes to safety because there's not always a really obvious return on investment for that. Pick battles that are small enough to win, but big enough to matter. And that I think is thank you. I wish I came up with that. I don't know who did, but it is so helpful to me. You know, there are,
00:33:31
Speaker
Battles that are really important to fight and you know, sometimes you have to win something else first I know recently we had wanted to purchase some fall protection and someone was really frustrated like oh I've tried to do this like three years ago and they said no and it was like well, you know so-and-so is
00:33:51
Speaker
you know, has just gotten the purchase approved. Like we should have asked her forever ago because she, you know, was able to get that done. And it's okay if you need someone else to fight the battle for you. You know, I accept all the help I'm offering. So, um, that, that helps a lot. But then also I think, um,
00:34:08
Speaker
You know, it's okay if you have to change your mind and say later on, uh, you know, actually I want this or actually this could work instead. I'm going through some of that right now, um, with a learning management system where, you know, it, it isn't necessarily going perhaps as we'd like it to, but my view on it is changing, you know, Hey, it would be really cool if we, instead of buying all these courses, if we made them ourselves, because we can brand them and we can, you know, have, you know, various
00:34:37
Speaker
employees from around the company participate. And it's fun when you hear your friend in your training. It's like, oh yeah, that's awesome. So that was really specific, sorry. No, it's really good. So essentially, you're talking about triaging. Like you said, you're trying to figure out what is big enough to matter. But at the same time, you're going to find those. You might change your mind on the process because you're learning more as you're moving through it.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, you gather new information and you change how you process it or what you do after you've processed it.
Teamwork and Collaboration in Safety
00:35:16
Speaker
I remember in the beginning, I used to want to do everything my way instead of prescribing to wherever I was at that time. Sometimes it's really nice to
00:35:31
Speaker
not be such a control freak and to sit back and say, yeah, what you have is fine. If it meets the requirements, it's fine. I'm not gonna force you to change if it's not broken. And that helps a lot for me. Yeah, pick something somewhere else where you can have a, what did you say, a small enough to win, big enough to matter, where you can have a bigger matter. Yes, small enough to win, big enough to matter, definitely. That's great, that's great.
00:35:59
Speaker
I'm curious to know since this crane collapse in Miller Park was so impactful to you when you were little, have you had any opportunities to work with or around cranes in your six years yet? Not with those cranes. My brother did for a while. He was in construction safety for quite a few years.
00:36:26
Speaker
He decided it really wasn't for him anymore. He actually got to work with a gentleman that was, I'm not sure how familiar you are with that whole story, but Osha was on site the day that happened and took the video of it falling. My brother has worked a lot with that gentleman. He's so wonderfully smart.
00:36:50
Speaker
But you know, that definitely kind of made me afraid of big, big cranes. Um, but I, we, we talk about it every now and then in our crane training courses that, you know, Hey, you, you know, if something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Um, so, you know, I kind of refer back to that scenario sometimes, even if I don't mention it, it's definitely on my mind that that's what I'm remembering. How interesting it stayed that close to your family. Oh yeah, definitely very, I mean, you know, we're, uh,
00:37:17
Speaker
were all Milwaukeeans and so that was kind of always there. And I remember as well, kind of even crazier, a company nearby to that accident had a serious explosion when I was in high school.
00:37:33
Speaker
And I ended up actually working for that company later and I was able to kind of learn how that affected them. And that was really, really interesting to see the impact that it had even 10, 15 years later on these people and really how they did safety as well. It was just, it was crazy.
00:37:53
Speaker
So big safety memories for me. Yeah, right. And really how it impacted individual human beings. And it seems like that's a part of what drives you in your career. Absolutely, it does. I think we all, sometimes it gets tiring to say to yourself,
00:38:12
Speaker
Or to others, you know, I want you to go home the same way you came in. Like, I don't want to say that anymore sometimes. And I'm like, do you like having fingers? Because I do. Or, you know, what do you care most about in your life? Is it, you know, your kids or your grandkids? Like, you know, do it for them, or, you know, whatever. But I tell people when we talk about
00:38:34
Speaker
really serious accidents and like you know they got up that morning just like you and I did today and they may have hit snooze on the alarm just like we did you know they packed their lunch just like we did and they you know they did all these things they were real people and that just that is something that never is lost on me is that these are people with real lives and everybody is a people with a real life
Diverse Roles and Continuous Learning
00:38:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely a driving force. Yeah, it is. It is for me as well. So Katie, I'm interested to know what is, what is your favorite piece of safety or what is your favorite or task? Like what do you, what do you really love doing? Since, I mean, I mean, maybe hard to narrow down because our, because the scope of our responsibility is quite great, but what's your favorite thing right now?
00:39:21
Speaker
Um, I can say my least favorite thing I would say is, is ergonomics. I'm really bad at it. Um, I'm good at the problems. I'm just bad at the solutions. Uh, so I like to contract that out, but, um, I think my favorite thing about
00:39:37
Speaker
safety isn't any one individual thing. It's that I get to be every single thing I ever wanted to be, except for the cow cleaner, every day. I get to be a little bit of a lawyer or a nurse or a teacher or- Any colleges. Yes. It's funny. I don't like doing environmental. I'm really bad at it. I really wish that I loved it, but it's so hard for me.
00:40:05
Speaker
So I'm happy to pass that off to someone else. But yeah, I get to- Those laws are hard. They're so confusing. It's tough. But yeah, I get to do everything I ever wanted to do. I get to, you know, be an investigator and play Nancy Drew and do all those fun things. And it's, I really love that I can, you know, I love, I'm one of those people that like, you know, I get lost when I'm really learning about something. I want to learn everything I can possibly know about it. The whole plate of knowledge.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah, I click on like the references on Wikipedia all the time. I love them. So, you know, I, I really love that aspect of safety, that becoming that subject matter expert, or even, you know, just diving into a problem and, you know, realizing, Oh, I have to learn about this before I can fix it. I really love that part of my job.
00:40:55
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, lifelong learner. It's what's setting you up, Katie, probably to be the professor that in your long-term goal, your long-term goal of being a professor, right? Yes. I think I'd like to mention here as well, you and I are talking about your education and safety and how you've gone about it and what the path has been for you.
00:41:19
Speaker
And you've mentioned your alma mater, the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater campus. And in episode seven, for anyone who's been following the podcasters just starting, I have a conversation with one of Katie's professors, Dr. Todd Luchene.
00:41:37
Speaker
And in that episode Todd really takes a deep dive into how do you educate yourself and safety whether it's whether it's a formal education like Katie's talking about right now or whether it's how do you self educate or maybe it's doing some of the things that you're talking about Katie and it's reading and reading and reading and teaching yourself and becoming an expert in a particular area but
00:41:57
Speaker
episode seven really kind of takes a deep dive on different ways that you can educate yourself in safety, whether it's with a formal education or outside of that.
Importance of Professional Networks
00:42:09
Speaker
Oh, definitely. And Dr. Lucian is like my he's
00:42:13
Speaker
He's kind of like my, whenever I have a really bad day, I'm so excited now that I have this podcast that I can listen to because he is such a motivator for me. I mean, on like my worst days, I remember the time that he told me, he was like, yeah, there were times I thought you were going to fail out, but you did it. And I'm like, yeah, I did. So, you know, I was, like I said, I was not the greatest student when I was younger, but, um,
00:42:37
Speaker
He's such a great resource. I know he said you can reach out to him, but he's so passionate about education and so helpful in answering those questions. It's great to have. It's great to have a collection of mentors and people you can reach out for different pieces of advice in different chapters of your life.
00:43:00
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I feel very spoiled as well to have kind of grown up in this profession at this time because I feel part of my friend Jason and I, he went to Whitewater with me. He and I like to say we're like the new school of safety where we are fortunate enough that we are really never alone. We have each other and I have other friends that are in safety and it's a very
00:43:27
Speaker
small group because you know you got to be careful what you say to people. You know you don't want to divulge too much to the wrong person or what have you but you know those friends that I have in safety are so fantastic for me because you know when you want to talk about it
00:43:41
Speaker
You know, like my poor husband, I'll come home and be like, and this guy was hand polishing on a lathe. Can you believe it? And he's like, that's bad, right? Like, yeah, that's bad. But I can text that to my friend, you know, Alicia, who works across the country and she'll, you know, are you kidding me? And what did you do? You know, and I'll be like, oh, do you have ideas about this or whatever? And it's so nice, but we're in that time where we have
00:44:05
Speaker
classmates or co-workers that did this with us and we get to grow up in this field together. And I feel like that's rare, but it's really starting to become more common and I'm so grateful for that. Well, you're right. Our practice is small. We're a small cohort compared to other professions like accountants or something. Oh, yeah.
00:44:24
Speaker
And it's true, many of us do know one another. And Katie, I think you're right. Ours is one of those jobs that's a little bit tricky to bring home because people don't understand it. I do the same thing with my family.
00:44:41
Speaker
How was your day? Well, you know, if I really went into this, you might fall asleep. So, but I can call one of my friends in safety, though we may not work together and we can talk about it, like you said, and we can problem solve. And, you know, same thing happens with me. Safety professionals from around the country will say, you know, I'm kind of stumped on this one, or I just need somebody to run this by. This is what I'm thinking about doing. Can we talk about it?
00:45:07
Speaker
And it, you know, I think it's really important for our profession that we, that we keep those professional friendships alive because we're there to help one another in the end because our work isn't proprietary. Oh yeah. And, and it's, I can't tell you how fantastic it is. Um, you know, in, in this part of Wisconsin, especially, I'm not sure how true this is like nationwide. Um, but you know, there it's a growing field for sure.
00:45:34
Speaker
But in Wisconsin, it's kind of like if you didn't go to Whitewater for safety, nobody knows who you are. But I didn't really realize how everybody went there. And so it's kind of like you really can't burn your bridges and you've got to be careful what you say. But also, usually it seems like if people are still in this field that went to Whitewater, it's because they love it. And they're good at what they do and they're good people.
00:46:00
Speaker
You got to keep those communication lines open and I mean, if someone's already done the work, you know, ask them for help. Like today I asked my friend for a, you know, Hey, could you send me this PowerPoint that you have or, you know, Oh, do you have any, I like a lot of like, I like to try to be funny a lot. So I'll like, if I make something safety funny, I'll like send it to.
00:46:20
Speaker
know, one of my safety friends and it can be really nice because they're like the only ones that get the safety joke. And it's, it's so nice. I can't tell you how nice it is to, you know, have that network and to end it and still to have, you know, this podcast as well to be able to hear from
00:46:36
Speaker
these seasoned professionals that I can learn something from every single one of them. It's just fantastic time to be in this field, especially as a newbie.
Persistence and Supportive Environments
00:46:45
Speaker
Yes. As we're rounding out our time together today, Katie, is there advice that you have for someone who's maybe just getting going or someone who's at their same career place as you that you'd like to impart? That's a big question.
00:47:07
Speaker
I think the biggest piece of advice that I would give myself, especially, that's kind of what I look at it as, don't give up. If this is what you want to do, it is not always easy. Sometimes you need to go to your car and cry or say bad words or something because it can be really hard. But don't let a bad incident or a bad
00:47:34
Speaker
workplace culture, you know, really ruin the field for you because you went into this for a reason because you care, you know, because you, nobody goes into this because they want the money or because they want, you know, like the street cred, if you will, like everybody groans when they see us coming. Nobody wants to, you know, you know, it's not, it's not like a field where it's a thankless field. Let me say that it's a thankless field and you can't let that wear you down. You know, you gotta,
00:48:02
Speaker
If you love this field, you'll make it work, but don't be afraid to search for those places that make you feel at home and make you feel like, yes, I can do this.
00:48:12
Speaker
I do feel like I'm making a difference because you might not be in that place and that's okay. It's okay to walk away. Great advice, Katie. Great advice. I hope it made sense. It did make sense. I think that's a great place to leave it as well as the quotable quote that you said that you can't take credit for.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:48:35
Speaker
Fight for things that are small enough to win, but big enough to matter.
00:48:40
Speaker
Yes, pick your battles. Yeah. And to remember to mine out those mentors wherever they are, whether they're within your own workplace or within your own discipline, mentors certainly matter. Well, thank you so much for being a guest today, Katie. Really appreciate it.
00:48:59
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. You're welcome. And thank you all so much for joining in today and listening. And thank you for the work that you do in safety to make sure that people are going home with all of their fingers, as Katie alluded to earlier. And you can listen to all of our episodes at vividlearningsystems.com or subscribe in the podcast player of your choosing.
00:49:23
Speaker
If you have a suggestion for a guest, including if it's yourself, please contact me at social at vividlearningsystems.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.