Transcript
Speaker: This is the fictional fighting championship podcast, the ultimate battleground where Hollywood's deadliest warriors collide. We're taking 48 of the most ruthless, skilled, and battle-hardened fighters from movies and TV and throwing them into a no-holds-barred tournament to see who survives.
Speaker: You've seen the movies, you know the legends. Now it's time to settle the score.
Speaker: Y'all getting any rain up your way? What way would that be? I've seen you was from Dallas.
Speaker: What business is yours? Where I'm from? Friendo? I'm Jordan Guerrero. I'm Christian Ducati.
Speaker: And I'm Steve Sadler. And this is a podcast about the greatest fictional tournament in the history of the universe. That is not an exaggeration. Chris, you're back from abroad, and I can think of no better way to welcome you back to the United States than to announce this matchup.
Speaker: Yeah, the fictional fighting championship has USA written all over it. What was it like being showered with praise overseas? Everyone knew who I was. They didn't know for sure until they heard my voice, and then they were like, oh, wait, you're that guy? i was ah sticking up QR code stickers that Jordan sent me everywhere. So those are all over the place. So fan base in Europe is going to grow even bigger, which is great.
Speaker: Every dive bar bathroom in Copenhagen, Denmark has one of those stickers now. Yes, yes. Well, I mean, this is ah such ah an ironic matchup because what do we have? Two Scandinavian fighters, both well-known legends.
Speaker: Wait, really? no I don't know. Not even close. That was my segue. Neither competitor today is Scandinavian Steve. We have today a second round matchup between the creepy coin flipping killer Anton Chigurh and the baby face assassin Jason Bourne.
Speaker: two more legends and let's introduce this the right way because this is an exciting one. We're down to four in this bracket, the chaos bracket and either Anton sugar or Jason Bourne is going to advance to the apex eight.
Speaker: Before we start, how about a fun fact? I want to hear it. I actually found this interesting because... Wait, wait. yeah Kurt Russell was going to be potentially Anton Chigurh. That's your fun fact.
Speaker: ah It seems like he's always the answer, but not yet. But it's very possible because we have the casting couch coming up and maybe I'll suggest that Kurt Russell should have been Anton Chigurh. Can you imagine Anton Chigurh in those pants?
Speaker: The eyepatch would be pretty awesome, though. Oh, he pulls off an eye patch. Yeah, 100%. But the one thing that I wanted to bring up too is that Jason Bourne and that franchise actually really changed the way action movies were made at that time. Bourne Identity came out in 2002, you'll remember. And it seemed like everything after...
Speaker: The Bourne identity got a little bit more grounded after that. And the protagonists aren't these untouchable, like superhero type guys anymore. um They're just more human. They get hurt. They're, you know, they're reluctant at times. And I think that that was just really interesting to to realize the timeline of that. James Bond. Casino Royale came out four years later, 2006, and it was just much more realistic fighting. He was more tortured. He wasn't like a a suave superhero type anymore. John Wick came out a few years after that, 2014. Taken, even Mission Impossible. I think the third one was coming out a couple of years after that, and that even changed.
Speaker: Yeah, I feel like Shaky Cam just absolutely took over. You couldn't watch an action movie without feeling like you were personally in it. Yeah, that's right. If you're a movie fan in general, I think you can really tell the difference between like a 90s movie and an early 2000s movie. And it's like, you'd think it would be more gradual, but I guess it really just happened right at the onset of the Bourne franchise.
Speaker: So really glad that happened. I'm i'm a big fan of... um realistic movies, making, making fight scenes and gunfights and other things very realistic is kind of a big draw for me.
Speaker: It's possible without born, there'd be no equalizer. And how sad would I be without my favorite franchise? What else would spike TV play at 2am? You know what? It's on right now.
Speaker: In fact, they played all three of them in a row. Equalizer three is on right now as we speak. Lisa's watching it. She, yes, she's probably, she's like anything but the equalizer. God damn it.
Speaker: This screams I'm at a hotel and they have HBO and I'm like, babe, look, equalizer's on again. if I'm in a hotel and equalizer's on, I'm so happy. Oh my God.
Speaker: Let's not go down to the bar or the pool. Let's just stay in the room watch equalizer. Exactly. Hey, Jordan, you have a message for our fans? Everybody, if you like what you're hearing, please give us a follow on Instagram.
Speaker: Even better, hit follow on Spotify or Apple Podcasts so you never miss a showdown. And hey, if you really love us, tell a friend, tell five, tell your weird uncle who watches The Equalizer instead of getting a tan when he goes to Hawaii. That's who we need listening to this podcast.
Speaker: We won't judge, but we will be grateful. So please send us a message. We'll read it on the air. fictionalfcpod at gmail.com. Why does the uncle have to be weird? ah
Speaker: All right, let's get to the tale of the tape. First challenger here is Jason Bourne. His debut, as we mentioned, is 2002 in The Bourne Identity, portrayed by Matt Damon. His fight stats. He's about five ten about $1.75, and at the time we met him, he was in his early to mid-30s.
Speaker: his home turf. I said, I think I used this phrase before. I don't even know. Maybe I invented it, but he's fighting out of burner apartments, kind of scattered all over the place. And his signature move.
Speaker: What do you guys think about this? Improvised violence at impossible speeds. Love it. Signature move, Sunday paper Pop-Tarts. Yeah, the toaster.
Speaker: He cooked it way too long.
Speaker: Vibe check. Here's what I got for a vibe check. I got the amnesiac apex predator. I'm not even sure if amnesiac is a word or if that's how you pronounce it, but I think you understand what I'm getting at there. Is it like celiac? If he eats to a bread, he'll forget what happens. I think that's what happened. He's waking up from a food coma. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah They actually had to scrap the first version of the movie where he went to Boudin, ate an entire loaf of sourdough and forgot where he was. That'd be an incredible premise to a movie. Let's switch to Anton Chigurh.
Speaker: His debut was 2007 in No Country for Old Men. Now listen, let's pause here for a second because have to bring this up. but No Country for Old Men.
Speaker: It was the winner of four Oscars in 2008. And I know we have other Oscar-winning films and franchises represented in this. Not a lot, but we do have others.
Speaker: But in 2008, No Country for Old Men, it won Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor, Javier Bardem, and Best adopted Adapted Screenplay. Can you guys guess...
Speaker: In 2008, the same year, which movie had the next most Oscars? Oh, man. it's ah It's a toughie. I want to say Casino Royale came out in 2008. I'm going to put that one out there.
Speaker: Casino Royale came out in 2006.
Speaker: So it probably would have been eligible for the 07 Oscars, not the 08. But good guess. Ooh, Rambo. Rambo. Well, listen, let's not get me started here on snubs. Yeah. But the answer is no. The answer is the Bourne Ultimatum won three Oscars in 2008 for film editing, sound mixing and sound editing. Isn't that cool?
Speaker: That's really cool. I love a good ah sound editing and sound mixing win or ah film editing. Yeah. Cinematography is another one that I love. Yeah, yeah. I remember watching um Mad Max in theaters, the one with ah Tom Hardy. Yep. And I just remember being blown away by the colors and the sounds. And that won the Oscar that year for for all of those categories. It did. It did. It won multiples, I think.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, it's good. You got to have respect for it It's not the most flashy, uh, category or or yeah award, but it is, you know, if you, if you like film, you should really think about it.
Speaker: So you're telling me this matchup went back 18 years. I have in my head, these two are on the same stage the same day. They thought they were just there for the Oscars. They thought that was the Zenith of their career, but here they are 18 years later on our podcast.
Speaker: finally duking it out for the serious championship trophy. Yeah, so many years later. And as as the legend Ray Flores, our awesome announcer at the beginning, as he would say, now it's time to settle the score.
Speaker: Yeah, that's what he was referencing. This is the award that you want. you don't You don't need an Oscar when you have a fictional fighting championship belt. All right, here's what we're talking about, guys. We were talking about No Country for Old Men, and we're doing the tale of the tape for Anton Chigurh. Anton was portrayed by Javier Bardem, who, speaking of Oscars, he won, as we said, Best Supporting Actor.
Speaker: And i think he's one of only two characters in our tournament that's won an Oscar for that role. I'm sure you can think of the other one. We've had him already. Supporting Actor? For, well, no, for the role of the character that's in the tournament. It it has to be Robert McCall.
Speaker: It's not Robert McCall. Denzel Washington did not win an Oscar for Equalizer. However, Anthony Hopkins won an Oscar for portraying Hannibal Lecter. course.
Speaker: Even fewer lines. Yeah, maybe fewer minutes in the in there for sure. um Okay. Back to sugar, his fight stats. He's about five 11, 190 pounds. And when we met him, he was in his early forties, give or take um his home turf. He's fighting out of West Texas and his signature move. I think we could all agree. It's the coin flip for your life.
Speaker: Vibe check. I've just got death walking at a very leisurely pace. Yeah. He doesn't hunt. He waits. He meanders. There's no hurry to anything that he does because he already knows the outcome.
Speaker: That's good. He's so effortless with his brutality. Effortless brutality. That's the vibe check. Yeah. No, that's great. That's a good one.
Speaker: All
Speaker: all right. Let's break these guys down. Want to start with Bourne? Absolutely. You know, we did the character breakdown already for both of these guys. We've seen them both before. So we don't have to do the same categories. But what I do want to talk about is how did they get here into the semifinals?
Speaker: I was going to say, I think we have to start with Jason Bourne's buy. Not a whole lot of people in this tournament get a buy. You know you're hot shit when you get one of those. You have to have a meme about you if you're getting a buy in this tournament.
Speaker: and When I was doing research today, i came, you know, I was trying to find some of the best born clips. um And I came across a bunch of YouTube shorts of very unathletic people trying to do parkour. And then at the end of the sequence, Noah Vosen from, uh, from the movies with the classic line, Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne. So many of those movies. I love those. Yeah. Me and my friend, Joanna send those back and forth to each other. Actually, I'm probably the one that sends them to her more often than not, but yes, yes.
Speaker: Yeah. Bourne, uh, beat Brian Mills. It was a very interesting matchup, I think, or just, It being so early on in the in the bracket, it was a real heavyweight matchup.
Speaker: Brian Mills, I think, was one of the top contenders for this tournament. And so having those two guys go against each other, it was a very difficult decision. Bourne came out on top. I had mentioned, ah you know, he had the upper hand with his youth. And then I thought that he was probably much quicker than than Brian Mills, more resilient.
Speaker: checking all the boxes and and being Mills in almost every category, despite Mills' is a yeah very strong stats. He's like a younger Brian Mills. And here's what comes to my head when I'm thinking of the two of them. You know that scene in Saving Private Ryan where Matt Damon, where they just show him aging at the end of the movie, and it's like him but aging?
Speaker: That is Jason Bourne turning into Brian Mills right there. That's great. That's great. I think we're all on kind of on the same page. We feel like, you know, is Bourne the younger Brian Mills or is Mills the older Jason Bourne?
Speaker: Mills is a older, more weathered version, maybe and even a more brutal version of Bourne, but an older version nonetheless. And for me, when you watch side-by-side scenes that are kind of similar,
Speaker: you really see that as good as Mills is, the speed and efficiency of Bourne is just next level. it's It's like, okay, if Mills is a nine in every category, I feel like Bourne is just a 9.5 in every category. Like he's just consistently better. And for someone of Mills' stature to get defeated unanimously, it has to be what we call an apex predator here. And I think that's what Jason Bourne was in in that matchup.
Speaker: Sorry, Brian Mills. We love you, but you had face Bourne. I think we're going to do a bonus segment because this chaos bracket feels overall more top-heavy than our first one, the mayhem bracket. And i I wonder, after it's all over, only two are going to advance, just like who advanced before and the other in the other bracket. And I wonder how many, if any, of the guys who don't make the Apex 8 could have possibly made the Apex 8 if they were in the other bracket. So maybe that's a good bonus episode that we might do when this season wraps up.
Speaker: Agreed. Yeah, that's a really good point. We should we should ah revisit that. So we think Bourne was well-deserved to advance here. And were we firing blanks? No, we didn't have any arguments from any of our listeners. we did we Of course, we had some Taken fans and Mills fans, but no one really put up much of a fight. I think everybody realized that Bourne was worthy of advancing here.
Speaker: Run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet. run the gauntlet
Speaker: Let's run the gauntlet. One of my favorite categories here, hell in a cell. So just your classic UFC hand to hand, no escape. Who's coming out on top.
Speaker: I think I've got a pretty hot day here. Okay. So, so in our last episode, we pretty much confirmed that Jason Bourne is one of the best martial arts hand to hand fighters. He revolutionized the game.
Speaker: I'm saying he loses seven out of 10. this Okay. Hear me out. His big thing is... Oh my God. His big thing is his weapon is your weapon, right? He turns random household objects. This man has no household objects. Anton Chigurh is fucking ginormous and he's absolutely brutal. You see him in one of the opening scenes choking the hell out of that guy.
Speaker: I think Anton Chigurh is just an absolute brutal force. And when Jason Bourne has no weapons whatsoever, I think he's getting taken down by the big guy. This is outrageous. Jordan is committing social suicide. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to put this on, on fucking Instagram and what am I supposed to do? It's a bad, it's a goddamn fact. I'm going to argue the contrary. Okay. I think throughout the film, we just see Anton Chagor working pretty exclusively with weapons, not really with his hands. I mean, he even chokes that officer out with handcuffs. So, It seems like he needs to have something in his hands to be able to take a guy out. Whereas Bourne is just so frequently using his hands, hand-to-hand combat skills, close quarters combat, just quite clearly breaking limbs, beating guys' faces to a pulp with his fists.
Speaker: That's what I would see Jason Bourne doing to Anton Chigarh, 10 out of 10 times. Insane. Jordan, do you want to change your vote before I go? I absolutely nailed it.
Speaker: So Jason Bourne wins three out of 10 times against Anton Chigurh, who you said was huge. He's 5'11", 190. He looks bigger than that.
Speaker: Okay. Well, look. This is not a good matchup for Anton Chigurh. I mean, Bourne, in my opinion, is probably the fastest, most agile striker that we've seen so far.
Speaker: Just this side of Chance Boudreaux. It doesn't matter if they're striking, if they're grappling, martial arts, you name it. I mean, whatever this guy does is just lightning fast. It's just devastating. Bourne wins this thing 10 out of 10 times. Anton Chigurh has no chance.
Speaker: In fact, I'm going to say a hot take here. Jordan has a better chance of beating Jason Bourne than Anton Chigurh. That might even be more psychotic than Jordan's answer.
Speaker: All right. Another great category here. Casting Couch. Who would or could play Jason Bourne in 2026? Well, I'll tell you who cannot play him. It's Jeremy Renner. I'm calling that one flop.
Speaker: That's fair. I like Jeremy Renner if you're asking, but um I have a great one. kind of hate to do it because and my wife has a crush on him, but ah Tom Holland. think he'd be great. he has He has the baby face. He's played in you know he's obviously played Spider-Man, he's Uncharted.
Speaker: So yeah, I think he has the skills and I think he could ah he's he's a great actor. I think he he would do it justice. Solid pick. I think I have one that's decent here.
Speaker: What about Barry Keoghan? I think we need someone who's not overly intimidating, kind of like you had Tom Holland. I think he fits the same mold too. I didn't think of him, but you know, he's not bulky. He's not super muscular, but I guess it seems like Keoghan's kind of sneaky athletic too. And he, they say he's got some boxing skills or whatever.
Speaker: He's pretty small guy. And I have to mention his face too. He kind of has that, you know, maybe I don't know who I am. Look to him that I think might work too. Yeah. That's a good pick.
Speaker: Next category, who should he have killed? I have one end of ah the ultimatum on the roof of the skyscraper. Noah Vosen. Yeah.
Speaker: As he's facing him down, he ah tries to shoot him. Would have been great if he didn't just run off the edge of the building and jump into the to the river or whatever. It would have been great if he just turned around and just fucking destroyed the guy. Yeah.
Speaker: With his hands. I had Noah Vossen as well. There's no reason that this guy shouldn't have been killed. Huge douchebag. Mine was pretty similar. I went with Ward Abbott played by Brian Cox. If the antagonist of a movie is Brian Cox, he's probably being a huge asshole to you and he deserves to die.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Logan Roy. Exactly. He was the mastermind behind Black Briar or something. He was the one doing all the psychological. He was an absolute shit stir is what he was.
Speaker: He's got to go. um Another one of my favorites here, ideal tag team partner, ah someone from the tourney or someone from you know any action movie that they would team up with in in a WWF style tag team. Yeah, I love this one.
Speaker: I have one I like. i think it's a fun one. What about Christian Wolf from The Accountant? Will we ever stop talking about them? God damn it you stole my thunder.
Speaker: Not only are they perfect compliments to each other, right? You got Bourne, who just nothing is like creates chaos. Wolf is overly structured. He's like super surgical, right? But, I mean, Damon and Affleck back together again. You got Will and Chucky kicking ass. um Only this time, Chucky gets to be the math genius.
Speaker: That's awesome. You completely... Pulled this out of my mail. Oh man. I had, I have Affleck Christian Wolf written down. Yeah. Perfect. You gotta love, you gotta love them. The team name that I would have given them is a good kill hunting. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Okay. That's nice. That's nice. That's nice.
Speaker: Oh, I had a team name too. I had just had calculated violence. I'm glad you confirmed that that was a good pick. Yeah. Good call. Same wavelengths same wavelength. Same wavelengths. I'm, uh, I'm seeing it slightly different, but pretty close to where you are.
Speaker: I'm seeing him with Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible. Very similar vibes, but I think Ethan Hunt is going to bring a little bit of planning, a little bit of teamwork to this that he doesn't necessarily have. The two of them are going to have a good dynamic. Ethan Hunt's going to kind of be the leader of the group, and they're going to work off each other really well.
Speaker: I'm calling them the impossible identity. oh yeah Okay. It's a good one. Yeah. Good. no No amnesia, no autism for Ethan Hunt. Yeah. It's a good, good pick for those are, those are good. Yeah. Ethan Hunt's a good one because, uh, man, two risk takers, they'd be like the Hardy boys when they first came into the WWE, wwe just totally taking risks and diving off the top of the cage and shit like that.
Speaker: It's awesome. There is one thing I wanted to bring up about born. Tell me if this means anything to you. I remember now.
Speaker: Does mean anything to you? Not at all. That doesn't sound like Jason Bourne. Does this mean anything to you? I remember.
Speaker: I remember everything. Okay. That's Bourne. That's Bourne. Okay, good, good. Do you know what the first one was? You do not? I guarantee you don't? It's from a 1988 heavy metal concept album called Operation Mindcrime from one of my all-time favorite metal bands back in the day, Queensryche.
Speaker: Okay? Get this. it tells um It's a concept album, like I said. So it tells a story of this guy, Nicky, and he's a recovering heroin addict. He's manipulated into becoming an assassin for some type of a revolutionary organization led by like a political demagogue. What? By the name of Doc. Yes, his name is Dr. X. And the narrative centers around like I'm i'm reading this part here. Themes of corruption, political manipulation and love as Nikki tries to break free from brainwashing and his role in killing political figures, including his love interest, Sister Mary, who's like a nun.
Speaker: It's one of my favorite albums of all time and one of my favorite heavy metal bands from back in the day, but fuck it's relevant, right? That's why you say the name my one more time. I'm about to ruin my Spotify algorithm.
Speaker: Queens. Right. Is the name of the band Queens. It's one word. And then Reich is spelled R-Y-C-H-E. Two funny dots over it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the two dots over it. And the the album is Operation Mind Crime. It's fucking incredible.
Speaker: So copyright infringement on the writers of The Bourne Identity. Maybe. Queensryche album. Yeah, how about that? I've fulfilled my lifelong dream of working Queensryche into a podcast about Jason Bourne and Anton Chigurh.
Speaker: Hey, they're going to get so many more followers now. Yeah.
Speaker: All right. Let's switch to sugar. Okay. Hold on, Steve. But before we hit sugar, i have a sneaking feeling that you and Jason Bourne may know each other.
Speaker: i want to hear it. Six degrees of Steve right now. ah Okay, let's do it. Yeah. I'm always down for this. What do you got? Bringing it back for the fans. feel like we'd really have to do this like more often.
Speaker: All right, so starting with Matt Damon. Okay, so Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio, both in The Departed, right? Okay.
Speaker: Leonardo DiCaprio, great movie released on Netflix. Don't look up with Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep, we all know her from what movie? The Devil Wears Prada 2. in theaters everywhere. May 1st, also the first one.
Speaker: But who did that co-star? Chris, do you know? ah Steve Sadler? Yeah. No, hold on. Wait, wanted to tell me more about this, actually. Yeah, we're break so this is breaking news to everyone, including Jordan and myself.
Speaker: It appears that Steve is going to be an extra in The Devil Wears Prada 2. I prefer background actor. So speaking of background actor, I have your contact photo set as your background actor and it's you with Woody Harrelson, except Woody Harrelson is a normal looking person. And I zoomed in and you're like seven pixels.
Speaker: ah I know the exact picture you're talking about. It's the courtroom scene. Yeah, exactly. In front of the grand jury. Steve up there on the rut on the Mount Rushmore of actors. We could have gotten to Anton Chigurh in one step because Woody Harrelson is in No Country for Old Men.
Speaker: We could have had him on the show if he talked to your friend Meryl Streep. Damn it. All right. Well, I'm glad you brought that up. Why don't we hit what you did? Yeah. Yeah. Let's go to sugar and we'll do the character breakdown. We know that he beat snake Plissken, which is kind of a cool matchup because what it did, it showed that it is not impossible to beat one of these special ops guys.
Speaker: Jordan. I want to ask you guys, you know, we always say, well, how did they win? How did they get to this round? I want to ask Jordan this question. Yeah. Hard disagree. He won because you had more people than me. So hear me out.
Speaker: Snake Plissken had the most important thing you can have in this tournament. And what is that? An eye patch. Throwing stars. ah no Not just once, but in the second movie, which he effectively used to kill people.
Speaker: If I am ranking the coolest weapons, obviously Anton Chigurh's captive bolt pistol is pretty up there. But ninja stars? Come on, guys. The ninja star in the eye patch was seemingly an unbeatable combination, but this is the FFC, man. Anything can happen. Yeah. Not even a ninja pirate can win.
Speaker: But okay, um I'll give it to you. you know It was a close matchup. And the the Snake Plissken's resume, it certainly made sense that he could advance. For me, though, the biggest factor was that I think you have to have something special to advance into the next round and start winning fights.
Speaker: Plissken, despite that resume and what I was told he had, i just didn't see it. you know I saw it on paper, but I didn't see it. And and I think Chigurh just showed me way more than I saw with Snake Plissken. So that's my justification. But what about you, Chris? You also had Chigurh winning.
Speaker: Yeah, I think you need you need two eyes to see Anton Chagot coming. And even then, if you have two eyes, you're probably not going to see him coming. The dude is so sneaky. He's so unsuspecting. he flies under the radar. And we see that throughout the film.
Speaker: Like I said, he's effortlessly brutal. And I just didn't see Snake Plissken standing up against that. Yeah, i I was just going to say, I think Chigurh has that one skill, that one thing in like a video game where you have different characteristics and and the scale goes up and down or whatever. I think he's got that 10 out of 10, which he's the GOAT psychopath. And I think that being unique like that helps. And I think that I i rated that highly and and had this dude moving on.
Speaker: We don't have to defend ourselves against you, Jordan. I think you do. You're the guy who said he could beat up Jason Bourne. All right, moving on, because clearly you're wrong, but it's goddamn fact. Okay, fair, fair.
Speaker: run the gauntlet run the garuntlet Run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet, run the gauntlet, the gauntlet.
Speaker: don't we run the gauntlet? 2.0, number one, casting couch. Who would play Anton Chigurh in 2026? God, that's a hard question. It's a good one.
Speaker: I have a real good one. a good a good two, actually. okay So I first thought Paul Dano. i don't know if I'm saying that last name. He plays the Riddler in the new Batman movies. yeah um He was the son in There Will Be Blood. yeahp he's a great He's a great actor. He played a serial killer in a movie with Ethan Hawke and Angelina Jolie taking lives from the ah very early two thousand s But...
Speaker: I think it's important, and Jordan mentioned this in the Hell in the Cell category, that Anton Chigurh is huge and he's formidable and overbearing and um scar you know pretty scary looking. So i don't think Paul Dano really fits that. He's kind of like nerdy, a little undersized. So then i moved on to...
Speaker: Adam driver. Oh, good one. Okay. which I think he is, he's massive. Yeah. He has the, he has a deep voice and he has the hair. He's got the hair. He could really, really pull off this, uh, this character for sure. I would love to see him.
Speaker: I like that one. Anton Chagut. That's good. I'd pay for that. Adam driver six, two. Yeah. He's a big, yeah. He's a big, lanky dude. I think I have a good one. What about Michael Shannon?
Speaker: I think he's kind of feels like he got a similar vibe to me. I think he could be terrifying without yelling, raising his voice. And i think he could do that kind of slow cadence to his walk, his speech. And I think, yeah, give him a wild ass haircut. And I'm ready to see that.
Speaker: He was, he was in boardwalk empire. He was in, what was that Guillermo del Toro movie about the late lady, lady in the water. shape like play a psycho Shape of water. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, he's been in a couple of films where he plays sort of like either ah a creepy killer guy or a or a hitman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, here's how well-versed in cinema am. I only know him from Superman.
Speaker: Oh, that's right, yeah. General Zod, pretty good though. All right, maybe I'm just toeing the party line and he's had too many films lately. What about Pablo Pascal? I feel like they have pretty a vibe if he were to try. Cut his mic.
Speaker: Cut his mic. if you were to try and put on the whole character of being like the weird psycho killer. And I think he has an intensity that he could try and bring it to the same thing.
Speaker: Okay. I'll listen to it. Yeah. I'm for sure. Anything Pablo Pascal does, I'm in it. It's Pedro, man. Pedro. ah See, this is why cut him. This is why he can't be in the tournament. Yeah. He's out. He's out because you didn't know his name. He might've, he might've got by Rambo if, if,
Speaker: right. Here's a question for Anton sugar. Okay. Who should he have killed that he didn't? It's very difficult to think of any, he kind of killed anybody he wanted to.
Speaker: Usually one that you bring up right for heroes and they're like, oh gosh, they would have been justified to do this. Anton sugar was justified to kill no one. Correct. But I think he should have killed the gas station guy.
Speaker: And here's why the guy at the gas station, has absolutely no sense of self-preservation. I mean, if I saw that guy walk in the door, I'd be like, fuck this, I'm closing down shop. This man was so painfully oblivious to the entire conversation. And every single person watching that movie at home was like digging their nails into their eye, like, oh my God, this is going to go so south.
Speaker: yeah That guy didn't deserve to die, but maybe he should have killed him. Yeah. Jordan, I actually had this written down as well. Just put the guy out of his misery. it just His life seems so yeah boring. He's just there because, i don't know, he he's in a loveless marriage and he got forced to work there because of his wife's family or some bullshit. why His wife's father owned the gas station, Chris.
Speaker: I mean, you even see the confusion from Anton Chigurh. Like, What are you doing? matt na Yeah, no. Yeah. mean, that's as good an answer as any. It's like, I didn't really have any because again, he shouldn't have been killing any of the people that he actually killed. They didn't deserve it. But I did think, wouldn't it be hilarious or grim if he killed the kids who gave him the shirt at the end? Oh my You are going on a list.
Speaker: I've gone too far. gone too far That is a doc comedy. is fine yes Yes. Totally. All right. Speaking of people that he should be spending more time with, what would be an ideal tag team partner and team name for Anton sugar?
Speaker: Okay. I have a good one. What about Michael Myers? That's a good one. From Halloween. Yeah, like the undead character. Yeah, he's he's ineligible for the FFC, of course, but but what a great tag team this could be, right? Like like the eerier version of like Undertaker and Kane when they teamed up. That's exactly what I thinking. They're both super slow. They're methodical. But if if they make a decision that that they're coming at you, it's over. And I'm going to call this Dark Fate.
Speaker: Because I think it matches these characters and because I think it's a fun call out too FFC legend Sarah Connor. Love it. i ah I had one that I just thought was kind of hilarious. It would be Machete.
Speaker: They both have sort of the ah Mexico connection, the the hair, and it would just be absolute mayhem in the ring. It's pretty good. We need Danny Trejo on this podcast. I guarantee no podcast in human history has talked about machete as much as we have.
Speaker: Yes. Oh man, that's a good angle. All right. Tag team partner. I'm taking a slightly different route, but it feels so right. His tag team partner is Hal, the computer from Space Odyssey.
Speaker: I feel like they have the exact same demeanor. though I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. I have to murder you. Right? Good. Same vibes. I'm calling those two the algorithmic Avengers.
Speaker: Nice. That's why this is my favorite category. We got to bump this up to gauntlet one. So every character can get this category. All right. Uh, last thing here, scale of one to 10. What's his hair?
Speaker: Six to six. Yeah. Six. Anton Shakur is six. It's a weird one. It's like a train wreck. You can't look away. oh my God. That's a hotter take than Jordan said that he would win seven out of 10 times against Jason Bourne.
Speaker: What were you, you want lower, higher? I thought he'd be a one. I thought he has the worst hair in the whole tournament. i don't know. It's like, it's conditioned. It's kind of, it's nice. Look, it's nice looking. Okay. hot take. All right. It's not that hot. This is a good take. This is a pretty good take. Okay. Okay. okay So we're talking about how he brushes his hair, right? You know what that reminded me of? It reminded me of who would be his actual ideal tag team partner.
Speaker: Someone who says it rubs the lotion on its skin. Oh, hello, Bill. Would those two not be perfect for each other? they They would be perfect for each other. Yeah. That's amazing.
Speaker: Rub the lotion on the hair. Exactly. Oh my God. All right. Style each other's hair. We just broke the record for the longest segment one and two in history, FFC history. So I may have to chop some out, but.
Speaker: He's been through a brutal war, survived a POW camp in the jungle, but nothing has prepared him for single ply toilet paper. When you're caught in a bind and need backup, reach for hero roles. Triple fly toilet paper. We're at number one when it comes to number two.
Speaker: More importantly, I want to get to the open discussion because we got to talk about this in the terms of who the fuck is going to win this thing. So let's talk about Chigurh. Let's talk about Bourne. Any favorite moments or signature scenes or key events that you want to talk about for either one of these guys now? Because we got to narrow it down. Only one can advance.
Speaker: I think before we get into them individually, we have to talk about how this is such an interesting dynamic. So hear me out. It's an interesting dynamic because we have seen this before.
Speaker: Bourne is used to being chased by hitmen and taking them out. Anton is used to tracking people and taking them out, including rival hitmen. We have two titans of their craft and they are colliding together, but both of them are in their elements.
Speaker: So I think this puts a really interesting position on the table here. I think that's a great take. and And yeah, I'll piggyback on that because I'm surprised that this that I realized this. But now I see that Anton is an elite tracker.
Speaker: And it's one of the most underrated parts of his game, I think. And you brought it up and I think it's perfect. He does. The way he hunts Llewellyn Moss, it's not really chaotic. It's not desperation or anything like that. He's very methodical. He's patient. He's relentless. And while I don't really have any indication of situation formal military training like a Braddock or a snake Plissken or anything like that. um Or even any you know military adjacent survival type background, like more like Sarah Connor or Joel Miller. But he operates with that same mission first mindset. He locks onto a target and it's that's his mission. And he doesn't stop until it's done. He does it just like Brian Mills did it. So yeah, I think that puts him much closer to those elite hunters than more like the civilian killers like Jax Teller or Dexter.
Speaker: I think it's a sleeper skill highlight for him. Yeah, I think this is a matchup made in heaven. And to see a film where Anton Chagot would be chasing down Jason Bourne would be absolutely epic.
Speaker: You know, both incredible at their crafts, you know, with Anton being the tracker and Born being the Aveda, it's almost kind of like an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. Yeah, so it's kind of difficult to see one of them coming out on top if you know they're just kind of running in circles around each other.
Speaker: like I'm trying to see what how I can differentiate the two. one of the things we talk about is like close calls and brutal injuries. And when I'm thinking of that category, God, I'm thinking these guys are evenly matched.
Speaker: Both of them have scenes where they get horrific injuries. They can't go to the hospital and they perform field medicine on themselves. Right? Like that, that was in, that was in the first born movie. And then Anton Chigurh had to fucking burn a car down to rob a pharmacy to do his own field medicine. like These two are absolutely brutal. Like Jason Bourne can get shot jumping off of a building. Anton Chigurh,
Speaker: can get absolutely demolished in a car crash and walk it off like it's nothing. Like these two have no pain receptors left in their body. So if we're talking about guys who can take a punch, oh my God, i don't want to be in the ring with either of them.
Speaker: even though that can be Anton Chigurh as confirmed by Steve Sadler. Yes. Yes. No, that's a good take because what is, what does Bourne love to do? Snap people's arms, snap their limbs. What if he did that to Chigurh? We already know he would just walk it off. That's interesting. Yeah. Rub some dirt on it. Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, showing the similarities between these two while also at the same time, they seem to be so opposite to each other is really interesting. I want to get to X factor, but I also, before I do that, I want to talk about a scene that we didn't talk about in the first Bourne episode, but I think it demonstrates something that we need to talk about. It's an incredible scene. It's the Waterloo station scene in Ultimatum.
Speaker: I don't think there's maybe two others in the FFC who could accomplish this mission. And I don't even know who the other two are. I'm just guessing that's how elite he is. But here was here's Bourne. He's dodging CIA surveillance teams, field agents on the ground. and the local police all at once.
Speaker: And this alone is impressive, right? Because what we're going to have is Chigurh alone by himself stalking down Bourne in this, a similar type of environment. But what makes Bourne's accomplishment here so next level is that he's simultaneously guiding a civilian reporter through a completely different route of the same maze.
Speaker: And I saw him, he's identifying CIA agents just by their behavior, somehow keep himself and the reporter invisible. It's like he's running live, um like a counterintelligence operation inside enemy lines, right? And what I love is that he's out thinking the exact system that built him in real time. And we're watching this. And while he's doing this, he's protecting somebody who has no idea what they're doing.
Speaker: And it's like he's beating 10 chess masters all at once while he's coaching a beginner to win on another board that he can't even see. So what an incredible scene right there that I think goes directly towards this matchup possibly.
Speaker: Yeah, he's he's playing 3D chess. Totally. And i'm really I'm really glad you brought that up because some of the most favorite scenes for me in any of the Bourne films is when he's evading um capture from you know any of these people that are chasing him. And i I think I'll get into that in The X Factor or the The Path to Victory. I wanted to talk about something that we hadn't discussed previously. Jordan, though, I don't want to get into it yet if you had something to say.
Speaker: I was going to say. Chris, do you think that you're coachable enough to where Jason Bourne could have coached you through the Waterloo station? Do you have elite listening skills? I like to think so.
Speaker: ah Yeah. I think Chris would trust Jason Bourne. This reporter freaked out and decided he saw an opening that Bourne didn't see. That was his death. That was the death blow. Said, I'm going to run.
Speaker: Yep. Don't ask my wife if she thinks I have elite listening skills. Yeah. the The thing with that scene, Steve, and you mentioned Bourne being able to pick out CIA agents and et cetera, et cetera. um I just don't see Chigurh even being able to get close to Bourne. And he flies so under the radar in um No Country for Old Men. like People just kind of look past him like he's he's nothing and don't suspect anything of him. But Bourne is going to see him ah coming from a mile away. That's a really good point. Especially with that hair. Yeah.
Speaker: Another one for me that we didn't talk about in the Firstborn episode, the mini car chase, a real kind of callback to the Italian job.
Speaker: with Bourne driving the Mini through the streets of Paris and evading police and and CIA. And something I think we don't talk about enough on the podcast within our matchups is the ability of the fighters to control vehicles. Ooh, I like that. The only person i can really think of who's a strong candidate is Rambo. and We've seen him drive tanks and helicopter helicopters. So yeah, like he's definitely way up there, but seeing born in, in this, in this scene, controlling the car and driving it downstairs and, you know, using it to evade was, i think a big factor for me. Being different makes you good in this. And and that's a different skill you're bringing up. That's, that's really good. yeah He's like the original baby driver. Baby face and all.
Speaker: You know, there is an X factor that I'd like to give Chigurh, and it might be a bigger deal than I originally gave him credit for. But if you remember our mailbag episode, somebody asked, you know, is there a difference between like having ah taking a moral high ground and having um actual human feelings and things like that? Will that help you? Will that hurt you? And I think we were all unanimous in thinking that, no, that could probably only hurt you. What I want to bring up about that is Chigurh just has no problem walking up to an innocent person and executing them without any hesitation at all. um We saw him. He killed Carla Jean. He killed innocent people, innocent women. We think that we heard a story about him killing a 14-year-old girl or something. We didn't see it, but we heard about it.
Speaker: Bourne doesn't operate like that. He feels things. He actually does know right from wrong, even though he is a trained at assassin. He tries to avoid collateral damage. He's even hesitates around bystanders. And i think that he would even change his plan if it turned out that he was in public, you know, in order to protect innocent people. But Chigurh, no hesitation. He has zero conscious. And in this case, that's his X factor that he's just willing to do things that Bourne wouldn't be able to consider doing.
Speaker: I think you hit the nail on the head. Jason Bourne has to suppress his emotions. But that's part of the humanity the movie, right? You see him contending with it later. You see him saying, like, why am I doing this? Why do I have these skills? He has these emotions and he has these guilt.
Speaker: Now he's an absolute expert at separating the two. like i feel like you never really see him in the moment just waiting and not quite pulling the trigger or not quite doing it. But you compare it to Chigurh, he has no emotions. He has more cards to play, right? He sees the world and he has a he has a hand of cards that Jason Board would never even consider. Yeah, and he's also not going to hesitate.
Speaker: And I think Bourne, his girlfriend in the first film, Waterloo Station scene, um it's odd because he has these you know slight connections to people that he doesn't necessarily know that well, but it's it's an emotional connection and he is trying to save them And you just wouldn't see Chagall worrying about any of that. True.
Speaker: Well, um let me talk a little bit about an X factor for Jason Bourne. We know who Jason Bourne is. He is an apex predator. But I want to mention something that's a little bit more general, and I'm calling this his X factor.
Speaker: I just think we have to talk about his willingness to take extreme calculated risks. Think about Born out Ultimatum. He's cornered in a parking garage. What's he do? He drives off the roof in the car. The same movie, he jumps out the window of a building across into the window of another building. Absolutely incredible scene. Then later, he jumps off a building into the East River while shots are being fired at him. These are not lucky escapes. This isn't like Indiana Jones floating down
Speaker: you know, on an inflatable raft from an airplane and hoping for the best or anything like that. Okay. This is not Jason Bourne relying on luck. He's relying on instinct and adrenaline and of course training to do things that feel impossible to a normal human being, but they're actually probably just barely within the human limits. And that is what I think his X factor is that he will do things that no one else could even attempt Maybe Ethan Hunt. I mentioned him before, risk taker. But he'll pull him off because in his mind, he knows he can do it. That, for me, is his X Factor.
Speaker: For me, Bourne's X Factor is his evasion. Anton Trigurh is almost completely inescapable. He tracks down his target and kills them. Anyone in in his way is...
Speaker: getting obliterated. and ah Bourne, on the other hand, is the the kryptonite to that ah with his evasion skills. You know, you see it throughout all of the films. um I love seeing him trying to get away. The scenes always just really a very, there's a lot of tension and I love seeing his techniques for distraction, his ability to improvise. He, for example, blows up the propane tank to evade Clive Owen, who's trying to kill him. Another scene in The Supremacy, he he's escaping the the hotel. And then in The Identity as well, he's escaping the embassy by scaling the walls.
Speaker: for For him, his X Factor and, i guess, Kryptonite against Chigurh in this specific matchup is his evasion skills. That's good. Well, we're close to the verdict. I think I'm close to mine. Do you guys have a path to victory that you want to mention for either guy before we get to our verdicts?
Speaker: Yeah, for me, Path to Victory, just kind of going off of, you know, my X Factor explanation for Bourne, it would be evading Chigurh and then sort of immediately turning it around on him, surprising him, which we see him do in the last film. You know, he he has the evasion skills and throughout the three films, he's evading, evading, evading, and then he turns it around on them and becomes the hunter. And so that's how I see him defeating Anton Chigurh. And Anton Chigurh is such a strong hunter. I just, I see him being completely ah taken by surprise by Bourne, if Bourne is able to to get to that point.
Speaker: And I just want to mention there is a path to victory that, that we haven't mentioned that I want to talk about really quickly for Anton Chigurh. I think he has a hidden skill and it's patience. So let's just say that, that Chigurh has good enough tracking and stalking ability that allows him to find born. I think that's believable. Yeah. So once he finds Bourne, what's going to happen?
Speaker: Can he beat him in a straight up fight? No, absolutely not, Jordan. He can't out-wrestle him. He can't win a firefight. He just can't do it. But what he can do is out-weight him. So Bourne is always moving. He's always reacting. Chigurh doesn't need to do that.
Speaker: He'll sit there. He'll watch. He'll wait as long as it takes for the to find the right moment. He'll fucking die there waiting for the right moment. And that's kind of the danger. He doesn't have to beat Bourne at Bourne's game. He just has to sit there and force Bourne into his and wait for that one moment, which is that that's all he needs to get him. So I just wanted to bring that up before, you know, we make up our minds here.
Speaker: Now it's time settle the score.
Speaker: Should we get into the verdict? I think I'm ready. Yeah. I'm good to go. Jordan. I feel like, God, what was his name from the Dune movie? I feel like Paul Atreides looking at a thousand possibilities for the future.
Speaker: And I see all the paths to victory and everything leads to here. Jason Bourne is on the run. And just like he does in all the previous movies, this guy needs to get a haircut because we know getting a haircut is the only way to change your identity.
Speaker: And who does he run into at Great Clips? Anton Chigurh. They're getting a perm at his favorite barber, waiting him out. So here's the thing Chigurh. Of course it's at Great Clips. Yeah.
Speaker: Am I projecting? That's the only place I go. 1599. See, Shigur likes to kill, and I think that's one of his weaknesses.
Speaker: He sees Jason Bourne there with no weapons because he never has a weapon. He's bigger, he's badder, he's a murderer, and he sees him as prey. Shigur feels inevitable, but he has never met Jason Bourne.
Speaker: He sits down in the barber's chair next to him and he monologues. Turns to the chair, looks him dead in eye. Anton Chigurh flips the coin, but he's never met a Jason Bourne because Jason Bourne can call the coin. it Doesn't matter where it lands, it's fucking heads. And this guy is a master of picking up on vibes. He catches the coin out of the air and he pulls some Sweeney Todd shit right there and kills him with the barber's scissors.
Speaker: Chigurh never knew what came for him. perfect way to go we'll say it who's winning jason born well done painted a picture there i like it one vote for jason born i mean we've spoken about how this is just a perfect matchup for our tournament a very interesting one an unstoppable force meets an immovable object anton chigur incredible tracking skills incredible brutality.
Speaker: He just leaves a wake of death in his path. You know, someone that Jason Bourne should definitely be afraid of, despite Jason Bourne's incredible stature in this tournament.
Speaker: If this was going to get made into a movie, I think it would be incredible watching Anton Chigurh trying to track down Bourne. It would be utter chaos. Anton, I know for sure, would clip Jason Bourne a few times, you know, get some shotgun pellets ah to his leg. and Bourne would be bleeding. he'd have He'd have to improvise. Bourne would have to come up with improvising distractions, trying to get away from the relentlessness that is Anton Chigurh.
Speaker: I could really see Anton Chigurh tracking Bourne down, getting him into a corner and trapping him. and unleashing fury on him. That being said, despite Bourne's evasion skills, I do think there would be a point where these two would have to meet in a room. And does Anton Chigurh have the hand-to-hand close quarters combat skills that would be required to take Bourne down?
Speaker: And I absolutely think that he does not. Shigua requires a weapon, I think, to take his enemies out. Really see no hand-to-hand combat from him throughout the film. And once he's in that room with Bourne and he's finally tracked him down,
Speaker: Bourne is the ultimate the ultimate expert at disarming his opponents. He would do it with ease against Anton Chigurh. Despite Bourne being injured from this incredible chase, he would ultimately break all of Anton Chigurh's limbs and then choke him to death.
Speaker: It would be an absolutely incredible thing to watch these two try to kill each other. But at the end of the day, Jason Bourne is just Way too elite for Anton Chigurh. And he's coming out on top here.
Speaker: Stellar take, Chris. Yes. So here's what we have, guys. Two votes for Bourne, zero votes for Chigurh. Even though it's already decided, my vote counts. So I'm going to do this. and And here's where I land. Chigurh does have an uncanny ability to kind of be both unnerving and invisible at the same time. We've talked about a little bit and we talked about it like his last episode, too.
Speaker: We've seen him walk right up to people. put a weapon on their forehead and they don't even react. They're just mostly confused and they kind of freeze. This is a real strength for him, but Bourne has something even more dangerous.
Speaker: He has like this supernatural ability to sense when something isn't quite right. Jordan talked about this in the previous matchup. Chris talked about it in this episode and we see it again in the consulate scene.
Speaker: There's no way he would be like the guy at the gas station. but Oh my God. Yes, exactly. And that's my point here. So think about this, the consulate scene. He's in custody. He's just sitting there, but he's giving them nothing. He's very calm. He's not nervous at all. He's not twitchy. He's just sitting there. And then something small changes. We can't even see it on our screens, right? But the tone of a phone call, maybe um a shift in behavior, he just picks up on it instantly. And I want you to watch that scene in slow motion.
Speaker: That field officer reaches for his gun at the exact same time that Bourne's already moving and reacting to it. There's just no delay. It's almost at the same exact time. And within seconds, both of those field agents or guards or whatever they are, both of them are down. Bourne's already transitioned into escape mode.
Speaker: That's the difference. There's no confusion. There's no hesitation. There's no, oh, what's going on here? What's that thing you're pressing on my forehead? He has none of that in him. So while Chigurh thrives on kind of catching people off guard and confusing them, Bourne is the absolute worst possible matchup for that kind of an attack. Bourne is just not getting surprised. He's not going to freeze. He's just going to react and he and he's going to do it immediately. Chigurh has some unique qualities, but I'm going to be real honest here. I can't draw up a realistic outcome where he beats Jason Bourne.
Speaker: Bourne is an apex predator and he's going to advance into the apex eight. Jason Bourne wins this and he wins it big. Nail in the coffin. We've had a few of these in the past, obviously, where it's a unanimous decision, three out of three for you know one particular fighter. And I know it's not it's not as intense as when we have the back and forth or a split decision, but the fact that Bourne is just running through people is really telling.
Speaker: Bourne is no Llewellyn. And that's, Steve, it's a goddamn what? That, my friends, is a goddamn fact. It's a goddamn what? It's a goddamn fact.
Speaker: New ringtone.
