Transcript
Speaker: Hello, and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
Speaker: I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker: This is the podcast about art, decorative arts, and antiques, the stories behind them, and what they can reveal to us about ourselves and the people who came before us.
Speaker: Now, think back with me for a minute to when you were in grade school, maybe 10 years old.
Speaker: It's a sunny afternoon, you're back from recess, and your teacher is hopelessly trying to get the class to pay attention to the lesson.
Speaker: Your head is in the clouds, you're bored to tears, and you just want that bell to ring so you can go home.
Speaker: You've got to pass the time, and I bet I know what you're doing.
Speaker: You have your notepad out and your pencils and you're doodling.
Speaker: Maybe it's random scrolling or maybe it's little messages.
Speaker: Maybe it's that funny little S symbol we all learn to make.
Speaker: Or maybe you're drawing a picture of something.
Speaker: Now, if you've ever been in that situation, potentially even more recently than grade school, then you already understand a lot about today's curious object.
Speaker: We're talking about Scrimshaw.
Speaker: And if you don't already know what that is, it's basically the antique maritime version of your doodles.
Speaker: Sailors onboard whaling ships would take primarily whale bones and teeth and engrave them with designs and illustrations.
Speaker: And they had a lot of time to do it, so some of them got very good at it.
Speaker: Today, those pieces of scrimshot can be extremely collectible, and you can find them in museum collections and at auction houses and with high-end antique dealers.
Speaker: And in some cases, they can actually tell us a lot about the sailors who carved them and what they were thinking about.
Speaker: And today we're going to be exploring one especially interesting piece of Scrimshaw.
Speaker: It does what the very best curious objects do, which is to expand our idea of what people were like at certain moments in the past.
Speaker: How in some ways they were so relatable to us and in other ways so alien.
Speaker: And this particular piece of scrimshot is going to open up questions about gender and sexual identity that, as you might imagine, were especially potent out on the open sea.
Speaker: And they might not have used those exact terms at the time, but yes, I promise, gender and sexual identity were real things in the 19th century.
Speaker: In fact, it's a great example of something that's tough to investigate through written records because it wasn't often openly discussed.
Speaker: But that's where decorative arts are so important.
Speaker: With me to talk about scrimshaw, but of course, first to answer some rapid fire questions, is Marina Wells.
Speaker: Marina is a curatorial fellow at the New Bedford Whaling Museum and a doctoral candidate at Boston University.
Speaker: Marina, thanks for joining me.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker: What's the oldest object that you personally own?
Speaker: Is it a t-shirt from middle school?
Speaker: Probably.
Speaker: It might be a family ring, maybe.
Speaker: One that belonged to my step-great-grandmother, I believe.
Speaker: Can you remember the first time you saw a piece of Scrimshaw?
Speaker: Ooh, yeah.
Speaker: I can't remember it, but it was probably around, I don't know, fourth grade or something going on a trip to the Provincetown Pilgrim Monument Museum where there is Scrimshaw.
Speaker: And I can imagine that's around the time that I was struck for the first time with what that was.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Because you grew up on Cape Cod, right?
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Marina Wells, maritime kind of watery name.
Speaker: That's exactly right.
Speaker: So Scrimshaw is kind of deep in your bones then.
Speaker: Yes, in my bones, if you will, definitely.
Speaker: Okay, so here's a time travel question for you.
Speaker: What historic voyage or historic ship would you join the crew of?
Speaker: I mean, not to be so stereotypical, but I think sailing with Melville in 1841 would be pretty cool.
Speaker: You know,
Speaker: at least a few interesting conversations happened on that trip.
Speaker: So that would be maybe a top one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: First thing that comes to mind, at least.
Speaker: Sounds like a strong choice to me.
Speaker: And actually, speaking of Melville, what did Moby Dick get most right and most wrong about whaling?
Speaker: Yeah, well, I think, yeah, the first thing that comes to mind and related to my interests is about just this sort of expansive understanding of masculinities and different kinds of guys' bodies and relationships and strange, unexpected ones in that context and the sort of literal slipperiness that happens in relationships between men at sea.
Speaker: I think that's something that it gets right in a right way.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: And wrong?
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: I mean, Melville just gets some things wrong within his own universe, which is really interesting.
Speaker: Mary Kay Burkaw Edwards often draws attention to the fact that there are just differing numbers of sailors on the Pequod, according to Melville's own accounts.
Speaker: And sometimes Ahab has lost his left leg and sometimes it's his right.
Speaker: You know, there are different things going on there.
Speaker: But yeah, it's kind of like, you know, leaving the Starbucks coffee cup on the table in the Game of Thrones set, you know.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Yes, precisely.
Speaker: Continuity problems.
Speaker: Were 18th century or 19th century sailors, were they as gruff and, you know, and hardy and hairy as we think they were?
Speaker: I think it depends on the guy.
Speaker: You know, some people went to sea and rioted when they couldn't access sex workers at the port that they happened to be stopping in at the in the Pacific.
Speaker: And other men go to sea to be reformed and reformed.
Speaker: Margaret Creighton has written about this, but I think it really depends on the person.
Speaker: And there are definitely diverse approaches and types of masculinity at sea in that period, definitely.
Speaker: And it changes over time, of course.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Marina, you've been banned from your current field and you're being forced to pick a new specialty.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: But like in general, I
Speaker: In general, you can no longer study maritime decorative arts, material culture.
Speaker: You can't work at the Whaling Museum anymore.
Speaker: I'm not going to speculate as to why, but it's up to you to figure out something new to do.
Speaker: What is it going to be?
Speaker: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker: I think I'm destined to grow into an old man who runs a tea shop, like an herb shop.
Speaker: shop that seems like a space for me to create cocktails of different medicinal herbs and things.
Speaker: That's my future, I can imagine for myself.
Speaker: From the decorative arts to the potable arts.
Speaker: Yes, yes, indeed.
Speaker: What's one book that a newcomer should read to start to learn about the material culture and of the age of sale?
Speaker: Oh, that's a really tough one.
Speaker: But I think an important, impactful one for me that I think is also just kind of a beautiful, enjoyable book to thumb through is Stuart Frank's publication on Scrimshaw, which is called Ingenious Contrivances Curiously Carved, which is a quotation from Moby Dick, of course.
Speaker: And it's sort of, it is kind of an account of the New Bedford Whaley Museum's collection, which is the largest collection of American scrimshaw in the world.
Speaker: And he does an interesting job, just a wonderful job of sort of accounting for the different types of scrimshaw that I think...
Speaker: is a great sort of scholarly source.
Speaker: Pictorial source can also be a wonderful coffee table book.
Speaker: So I think that's a, that's, it's got everything, you know?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So water world is happening.
Speaker: You know, the planet is flooding.
Speaker: Kevin Costner is off doing his thing and you Marina are rushing off to a rescue boat.
Speaker: What one object are you bringing with you to save?
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: Well, I have been working with the daguerreotype collection here at the museum and I'm sort of obsessed now with the fact that these objects are sort of the only record of so many people during this era and they're just so magical and have these kind of
Speaker: energetic resonances, I feel like I would, I've thought about this in terms of, you know, there were a natural disaster, I would feel compelled to, to, to snag a few diaryotypes, because they're so special.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What's your favorite museum to visit?
Speaker: Of course, aside from your own?
Speaker: Ooh, the Provincetown Art Association and Museum is a favorite.
Speaker: They always have something fun and exciting that spans all different styles and eras, largely 20th century, but...
Speaker: They've done a lot of great work with, you know, abstract expressionists who spend time in Provincetown, Motherwell and Frankenthaler and others.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm going to release you from the torture of the rapid fire questions.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: We'll be right back with Marina Wells.
Speaker: If you don't know already, we always post images of each episode's curious object at thememagazineantiques.com slash podcast, and today's is no exception.
Speaker: Now, there should be a picture in your podcast app too, but if you go to the website, you can see bigger and often more pictures.
Speaker: So if you'd like to have a better mental image while you listen, that's how to do it.
Speaker: If you have questions or comments for me, you can reach me at CuriousObjectsPodcast at gmail.com or on Instagram at Objective Interest.
Speaker: If you're listening right now using a podcast app, chances are you're using either Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and both those apps support ratings and reviews for your shows.
Speaker: It's a little different for each app, but if you go to the Curious Objects show page, you'll see an option to give us a star rating and write a little review.
Speaker: And I really enjoyed reading some of these on the air, so to speak.
Speaker: So here's one someone recently left on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker: Fantastic show, much fun.
Speaker: Curious Objects hits all the right notes for me.
Speaker: It's well-produced, good listening, full of interesting facts and historical notes all revolving around Curious Objects.
Speaker: Even when I don't think I'll be terribly interested in an episode, I will find that it captures my interest.
Speaker: Thank you so much to the person who wrote that, and to all of you who have taken a second to help us out by leaving a review of your own.
Speaker: And by the way, I know what you mean.
Speaker: Sometimes objects that seem dull at the outset turn out to have the most interesting stories.
Speaker: I happen to think today's is totally fascinating, so let's not put it off any longer.
Speaker: Let's get back to Marina Wells.
Speaker: Music
Speaker: Our curious object today is a sperm whale tooth in the collection of the New Bedford Whaling Museum that was intricately carved in the 19th century with an illustration of a figure described as a female pirate.
Speaker: Now, I have a lot of questions for you about female pirates, but for starters, let's figure out what this object is.
Speaker: And the kind of decoration, the style is called scrimshaw.
Speaker: And I'm wondering, Marina, if you can just give us a quick crash course on scrimshaw.
Speaker: You know, what is it?
Speaker: Where does it come from?
Speaker: Who was doing it?
Speaker: What does it look like?
Speaker: All of that good stuff.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So scrimshaw is a kind of 19th century practice of carving whale bone, ivory, and baleen, which is a kind of substance that is in
Speaker: non toothed whales mouths.
Speaker: And it was performed traditionally on shipboard after a whale ship had successfully captured a whale and it's processed for oil that is used for kind of lighting and lubrication.
Speaker: Huge industries in the U.S. in this period.
Speaker: But there are these byproducts, these physical byproducts and kind of gross materials left over.
Speaker: And for a while during 18th century whaling, often these would either be discarded or traded.
Speaker: But
Speaker: Later on, you know, as American commercial whaling sort of develops in the 1820s or so, there's a kind of burgeoning art where sailors take these byproducts in order to make scrimshaw.
Speaker: So rather than sort of tossing sperm whale teeth into the ocean as trash, they take them on shipboard.
Speaker: They're incredibly bored on their way home.
Speaker: This is kind of how this is often framed and they fill their time.
Speaker: by carving and inking bone ivory baleen with scenes, pictures often drawn directly from print materials that they also carried on board and would either keep these or give them as gifts, maybe exchange them with each other.
Speaker: And it's created a really interesting sort of archive of what American whalemen were up to in this era.
Speaker: and the different materials they were interacting with and different imagery that they had interests in.
Speaker: So did they have any functional purpose or are these purely decorative objects?
Speaker: So it depends on the object.
Speaker: There's a whole category of useful utilitarian scrimshaw.
Speaker: Sailors would carve objects for themselves that they used in sailing, like fids, which were used for working with rope.
Speaker: And they would also create gifts that were useful for other people.
Speaker: So for their ladies back home, they would carve things like
Speaker: sewing bodkins and yarn swifts for winding yarn, knitting needles and pie crimpers, things like that.
Speaker: But there's also an incredible amount of just kind of decorative work that I think it takes a little more speculation to figure out what its exact use, whether cultural or otherwise might be.
Speaker: Yeah, so it depends on the piece.
Speaker: Okay, so we need to picture a bunch of absolutely mind-numbingly bored sailors.
Speaker: They're on these months-long voyages.
Speaker: They have nothing to do a lot of the time other than singing sea shanties, I guess.
Speaker: And so some of them decide to get creative and draw these pictures onto the body parts of the animals that they're hunting.
Speaker: I mean, is this more or less an accurate picture?
Speaker: That's basically the image that I get from Moby Deck, right?
Speaker: Yes, I think it's accurate.
Speaker: I also like to put myself in this conversation a little bit by arguing, you know, yes, they're incredibly bored, but this isn't a passive process, right?
Speaker: They're not just kind of tossing whatever imagery they want on here.
Speaker: I like to say, you know, of course, there's significance to each and every one of these men in this situation are sort of having a lot to say about their identities.
Speaker: Okay, so...
Speaker: The curious object that we're talking about, this particular example of scrimshot is really fascinating in part because it has this figure carved on it that is labeled a female pirate, but that label is a little misleading, isn't it?
Speaker: Because doesn't the actual original inspiration for this figure come out of sort of an ancient mythology?
Speaker: Yeah, so there are a couple of major figures that come out of the print culture of this era that give inspiration to this particular tooth and a lot of other designs that are related.
Speaker: So the first major one, there are two major ones.
Speaker: The first major one
Speaker: is Alwilda, the female pirate, as this character is called, by Charles Elms, who produces the pirate's own book in 1837.
Speaker: He is a Boston publisher, kind of copying and pasting stories, compilations of things like pirate stories or
Speaker: you know, oceanic disaster stories into these books that sell quite well in this period.
Speaker: And so this story about Owilda actually takes up like less than a page in his Pirate's Own book.
Speaker: And it comes from a significantly earlier story about the fifth century princess and how this character is framed by the marital conventions of the time, is set up
Speaker: with King Al, who has a lot of power, and Awilda, this person, goes to sea sort of dressed as a man.
Speaker: Awilda basically is running away from these cis heterosexual conventions and goes to sea with a group of women, is my understanding, primarily.
Speaker: And Alf sort of attacks this ship, eventually beats Wilda in this maritime battle and wins over her hand is how it's framed.
Speaker: So it's an interesting thing that, yeah, and in the same sentence, basically, they get married on shipboard.
Speaker: What a courtship.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So the figure on this screenshot, is that, do you think the person who carved that meant for it to be Elwilda specifically, or is it more of a generic idea of a female pirate?
Speaker: This is a great question.
Speaker: So Elwilda is very similar in this illustration to the frontispiece of a book, a sort of dime novel novel.
Speaker: a few years later in 1844 called Fanny Campbell, the female pirate captain.
Speaker: It's a tale of revolution about the Revolutionary War, but this figure appears very, very similar to Awilda.
Speaker: And sometimes there is a sort of lack of naming in general, and there is a sort of just a label, the female pirate captain, which could be either of them.
Speaker: according to the sort of framing of the time.
Speaker: So if you look at them individually, you can kind of discern which image they're based off of, if any.
Speaker: There are a few where it looks like, okay, they really just had an idea in their head and they weren't even really looking that closely.
Speaker: at the sources, but there are some that are clearly actually traced.
Speaker: And you can see the stippled marks of a needle probably going through paper where they were actually traced directly.
Speaker: But it depends on the piece.
Speaker: And I will say there are over 30 of these
Speaker: that have circulated, you know, that you can find across different museum collections and auction houses, private collections, that kind of thing.
Speaker: So at least 30 plus whalemen were very taken with the story.
Speaker: Unless all 30 were carved by the same whale man.
Speaker: Which I would find hard to believe just given how very different the hands are that carve the different imagery.
Speaker: Okay, but there actually were some quite famous women who engaged in piracy, right?
Speaker: Yeah, there are, I mean, in the same era, Charles Elms, in the very same book, brings up a couple of these characters, Anne Bonny and Mary Read, from a little bit earlier in history.
Speaker: And there are some interesting approaches to how these characters are described, how they are kind of mythologized.
Speaker: I mean, these stories of piracy are just told over and over again.
Speaker: And I find most interesting how the representations of them change over time or are sort of highlighted because clearly there's cultural interest in them and they are a sales point.
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Speaker: To come to terms with, like, you know, as this carver is going to town on this sperm whale tooth and is thinking, gosh, you know...
Speaker: I could carve a picture of a really beautiful ship that I love, or I could carve some, you know, dashing heroic scene of me harpooning a whale or something really narrative like that.
Speaker: But instead thought, no, you know, I want to do a depiction here of a female pirate.
Speaker: What is going on in this person's head as they're doing that?
Speaker: I realize that's a wildly speculative question, but just based on your research and your exposure to this art and to the people around it, what do you think is going on there?
Speaker: Well, this is one of the big questions, and this is what I love to speculate about.
Speaker: Whaling ships are gone for months to years at a time.
Speaker: The longest whaling voyage clocks in at around 11 years from Northeastern port.
Speaker: So there's this really interesting aspect of temporality and sort of social isolation from these ships.
Speaker: New England ports that many whale ships are leaving from.
Speaker: So you can imagine that there's an aspect of proxy of personhood or a figure, especially these so-called female figures present on a whale ship by proxy.
Speaker: And so I would say there's a way of reading these so-called female pirates as doing a similar thing in a queerer way
Speaker: Yeah, wait, so hold on.
Speaker: So because I've been using the word female pirate, but now you just said so-called female pirate.
Speaker: So that's it.
Speaker: That feels to me like an important distinction.
Speaker: Could you play that out for me?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: We can talk about this.
Speaker: So the female pirate captain is kind of how these are labeled by their contemporaries.
Speaker: I put it in quotes because I think that there's a complicated relationship to gender here, right?
Speaker: So
Speaker: The people pointing that out by deliberately saying female are suggesting something about actual gender and
Speaker: as if it's something immutable or natural.
Speaker: And I just like to throw that into question that of course there's a queerness, a transness happening, a transing of gender, if you will.
Speaker: And that's a term I borrow from Jen Mannion and others before them.
Speaker: There's a transing of gender as a kind of act or way of living that I think is taking place even in these fictional lives.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, I mean, is it fair to say that gender roles were a bit more fluid in maritime culture in this period than they were, you know, on land?
Speaker: Sometimes there's a distilled conception of how maritime culture was incredibly sort of masculine in these very specific ways.
Speaker: And
Speaker: It is complicated by a number of factors of sexual contact, even exploitation, often of indigenous women between American sailors and people in the Pacific imports that they're touching down into.
Speaker: And then there are also women on shipboard
Speaker: After about the 1820s or so, it becomes more commonplace for captains to bring their wives and sometimes small children aboard.
Speaker: So, I mean, zooming back into our scrimshaw, our curious object for today, what does this whale tooth and the representation on it, what do you think this can reveal to us?
Speaker: about those sort of complicated questions of gender identity and roles being played on board these 19th century ships.
Speaker: Well, I think at the very least, we can all agree that there's an interest, a fascination, perhaps even an obsession with gender in this way.
Speaker: And we can extrapolate that in a number of ways to sort of sexuality and how that was playing out, especially as it relates to the presence of different genders on shipboards.
Speaker: So, of course, homosexuality is not...
Speaker: a very accepted thing in mainstream culture at this point.
Speaker: But there is a kind of playfulness in these characters.
Speaker: And especially if you look at the kind of texts that are associated with them, there's an interest in relationships between men.
Speaker: That maybe took place on ships as well.
Speaker: And we have very little evidence, unfortunately, of this kind of thing, except, of course, you know, most commonly in sort of court records and things like that.
Speaker: Court records involving what, accusations of homosexual conduct or activity or...
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And once in a while, you know, you get in a ship blog, some kind of comment about someone being punished, you know, flogged for activities that are too terrible to mention.
Speaker: can assume different things.
Speaker: So there's one case of a sailor in the Navy, actually, but whose name was Philip C. Van Buskirk, who is a sailor who writes in his journals.
Speaker: He writes very explicitly about sexual activities going on in a way that throws into question any assumption that
Speaker: sexual relationship between men wasn't normal the way that he talks about it.
Speaker: So it's a big question that right now I don't personally have answers to, but maybe someday.
Speaker: So this is really interesting because we've just done an episode with the Independent Seaport Museum in Philadelphia, which involves a watercolor by a boy named Cornelius Van Buskirk, who was studying navigation at the time.
Speaker: And I wonder if there's a family connection there between the Buskirks.
Speaker: Oh, I would love that.
Speaker: So you mentioned that there are quite a few examples, you know, around 30 examples of this subject matter depicted on Scrimshaw.
Speaker: And I have to imagine that there were probably many more that didn't survive for whatever reason.
Speaker: You know, in the larger context of Scrimshaw production in the 19th century,
Speaker: you know, there are, I mean, huge, huge quantities of material that was produced in this format, right?
Speaker: So what sort of prevalence would you say these depictions of potentially gender challenging or gender bending subject matter, like how popular of a subject would you say it was really?
Speaker: That's a good question.
Speaker: And it's something that I would like to have a firmer hand to love.
Speaker: But I think, you know, if I'm being completely honest, I don't think they're a massive presence in Scrimshaw practice at large, but they're significant enough in the maritime museum world.
Speaker: You know, each kind of major institution that has a Scrimshaw collection has one of these.
Speaker: I will just say if there are this many of them, I forget how many exactly, I've found 36 or something like that.
Speaker: It's significant enough to indicate a cultural interest.
Speaker: There are also other, I found a few other illustrations of pieces from the Pirate Zone book and other stories by Charles Elms.
Speaker: that are on scrimshaw teeth, but not too, too many and actually a busk as well.
Speaker: But actually now come to think of it, there's a box that I've seen and a walrus tusk as well with this image on it.
Speaker: I mean, does this scene possibly in some instances relate to these stories that certainly I've heard about in terms of women dressing up as men in order to be allowed onto a ship, which was restricted to male crew only?
Speaker: Is there an idea of a kind of maybe this person was sort of flying under the radar?
Speaker: And I don't know.
Speaker: Tell me about that.
Speaker: The best documented example of this that I have found is surrounding a person named George Johnson.
Speaker: And this takes place in around 1848, 1849 on the Nantucket ship Christopher Mitchell.
Speaker: And this is an example of a story that takes place off the coast of Peru.
Speaker: And then the newspapers in Nantucket, New York, New York,
Speaker: then spread to the Midwest.
Speaker: The story goes all the way to Australia, I think is the farthest I've found.
Speaker: But a story of this kind as a news story is really a big deal.
Speaker: And so I think it probably spread among whale ships at sea.
Speaker: There are folks who it's called gamming.
Speaker: when whale ships would meet at sea and kind of exchange letters maybe that they were carrying, but of course, verbal news, maybe even gifts between captains, that kind of thing.
Speaker: Okay, well, so I think we've jumped around quite a lot, which I apologize for.
Speaker: It's kind of the nature of the story and the context around it, right?
Speaker: I guess it is, yeah.
Speaker: Anyway, but before I let you go, you mentioned seeing quite a few of these examples are scattered around.
Speaker: And for listeners who are interested, our curious object, of course, is at the New Bedford Whaling Museum.
Speaker: But where else might an interested listener look to find another example of this kind of scrimshot?
Speaker: Oh, there are a number of collections.
Speaker: I've seen examples of this imagery at Mystic Seaport.
Speaker: The Providence Public Library has a pretty solid collection of whaling materials.
Speaker: And they have an example.
Speaker: The Peabody Essex Museum has one.
Speaker: Nantucket Historical Association, you know, you can see them in a variety of maritime museums.
Speaker: And you'll also see them come up at auction relatively frequently.
Speaker: So yeah, keep your eye out for the female pirate captains.
Speaker: One of these could be yours.
Speaker: Fantastic.
Speaker: Well, Marina Wells, this has been such an interesting adventure.
Speaker: Thanks for navigating us through it.
Speaker: Of course.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: I hope that listeners learn something interesting here.
Speaker: Today's episode was edited by Julian Minerva and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support by Sarah Bellotta.
Speaker: Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
Speaker: Our music is by Trap Rabbit.
Speaker: And I'm Ben Miller.
