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Just like the Simulations! Looking back at Star Wars: Battlefront || Star Wars Month
105 Plays7 months ago
Welcome to our very own podcast in a galaxy far far away as we take on the sci fi franchise that launched a thousand laser swords: Star Wars! From the three main trilogies to a lively discussion about one particular game franchise in the series, this is one themed month you will not want to miss!
In our fourth episode of Chatsunami, Satsunami and Andrew go back 20 years in the past to discuss the iconic shooter game Star Wars: Battlefront (2004). But does the trailblazing game still hold up today? Does it compare well to it's sequel as well as the reboots? And what are Andrew's TRUE thoughts on the series?? Without any further ado, let's find out!
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Transcript
Excitement for Star Wars Month Launch
00:00:00
Speaker
Well Andrew, I cannot wait to show the listeners our video on Star Wars Month opening text crawl. Um, Satsu, you do realise this is a audio-only podcast?
Introduction to Episode 4 of Star Wars Month
00:00:13
Speaker
Noooooo! Welcome to Star Wars Month.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the fourth episode of Star Wars Month. My name's Satsunami and joining me today is none other than the one and only Tripper himself, Andrew. Andrew, welcome to the fight. Roger, Roger. How are you doing today? Wait a minute.
00:00:36
Speaker
They've replaced him with a droid. A DROID! Oh wait, now that's Lord of the Rings, doesn't it? I thought you were going more Hot Pies there. It's just the one, actually. Just the one Battlefront, actually. Yeah, how are you doing tonight, Andrew? I'm good, thank you. How are you? Not too bad. I was saying this to you before we started recording, but any eagle eared, if that's even a word, eagle eared. Yeah, they're very well known for their ears. Yeah. Eagles, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to call the listeners that eared, am I?
00:01:02
Speaker
Sonar-enabled individuals. Yes, to all the sonar-enabled Mandalorians out there, you may hear in my voice that I have a bit of a cold. I have no idea where it came from and I swear this isn't like a bit or me trying to do a general Grievous impression to go, general Andrew. Good, good, let the cold flow through you. So yeah, if you hear that, that is why I have just been struck terribly with the lovely chest cold as usual.
00:01:32
Speaker
I apologize for my voice too. I don't have a call. It's just what it's like. Don't apologize for who you are, Andrew. You're amongst friends here. It's okay.
20th Anniversary of Star Wars Battlefront
00:01:42
Speaker
Speaking of fights that we're inevitably going to have later, today we are going to be going back to, oh God, 20 years ago. I can't believe I'm saying that. I'm crying into a pillow right now. 20 years ago, we were treated to quite possibly
00:01:57
Speaker
one of the greatest Star Wars games of all time, that of course being Star Wars Battlefront, which was a 2004 shooter game that was developed by Pandemic Studios. Before we go into this game, because I know we've got a lot to talk about the wonders of it, the maybe not so wonderful of it, but before I go on, what is your experience overall with Star Wars games and did you come across this in your Star Wars game journey?
00:02:25
Speaker
I do have a pretty extensive, well, I say extensive. I have played a fair amount of Star Wars games. The two that stuck with me, one was a game for the Game Boy, which was I think just called Star Wars. I think it was an adaptation of the original kind of arcade game where you were Luke Skywalker. It was like a side scrolling platformer, I guess. I played that game a lot in my kind of early youth on my Game Boy. And then the other one that really kind of sticks out to me is Rogue Squadron for the GameCube.
00:02:53
Speaker
I've mentioned it before during our original trilogy podcast about the scene on Hoth with the AT-ATs and the cable ships trying to trip up the AT-ATs and how I was having Vietnam-style flashbacks to my time constantly trying to do that and failing when I was maybe seven or eight years old. You weren't there, man. You weren't there. You don't know, man. I saw some things. I saw some stuff. Wouldn't recommend it. Two out of ten would not go back.
00:03:18
Speaker
Actually, those games were very fun. I did enjoy them quite a lot. But those the two that we stuck out, I've played some Lego Star Wars, I had Star Wars forced unleash the Wii back in the day, which I loved, actually, I thought that was really fun. And it was one of the times where I kind of got really involved and rather invested with a Star Wars story within a video game context.
00:03:37
Speaker
And so I had those, I had another game for the DS that I don't think I really played much of. I think it was given to me as a gift and I didn't replay much of it. And then with regards to Battlefront, I don't know that I ever played the first Battlefront game growing up, but Battlefront 2, I'm almost certain was the Battlefront game that I played with
00:03:54
Speaker
friends when I would go over to a certain friend's house that you would have this game and we'd play it quite a lot that we'd kind of just interspersed between playing Call of Duty 4 or this game like those are the two games that we would play and I was rubbish at this and so I'd always have like a sense of resentment towards the Battlefront game because I just wasn't very good at it because I hardly ever played it my friend had the game played all the time but
00:04:14
Speaker
Then in preparation for this episode, I was very kindly gifted both games by a certain generous sponsor. It's a bit like my great expectations situation. Anonymous Benefactor gave me Star Wars Battlefront 1 and 2 and so I played them in preparation for this game.
Andrew's Journey with Star Wars Games
00:04:30
Speaker
Do you know that is very scary. You made a great expectations reference because I was about to hop in and say the guy's name and then I thought nah, nah, too niche. But I'm glad we're on the same wavelength.
00:04:43
Speaker
I assumed it was Miss Havisham, but it was Satsu all along. Hey, that wedding dress belonged to me, dammit. It was the rogue podcaster that actually gave it to me that I met all those years ago. I assisted him with one episode, and he's given me these games. I just nod and then go back to my Victorian factory, which clearly I have. How do you think we get all these episodes out weekly? The content mines. Probably good reason that's indeed a joke.
00:05:08
Speaker
That's how they go on. Yeah. And so in preparation for today's episode, I went through and played a good chunk of the first one and some of the second one. I'm not going to pull the wool over your eyes or ears listeners as eagerly as they are and say that I completed both games because I did not. We'll get into this a little bit further on, but I did not particularly enjoy my time playing either of these games. But again, we'll get into that a little bit more. I've been blathering on for a little bit. What is your history, Satsu, with Star Wars games in general and in particularly these two games?
Satsu's Experience with Star Wars Games
00:05:37
Speaker
Well I'm glad you asked Andrew because my god I have such an extensive history with these games. It began in the 18th number which I'm actually trying to remember the very first game that I must have played for a Star Wars game because I remember having the Phantom Menace game for the PlayStation 1 and it was like a kind of RPG one. I don't know if you've ever come across that. It's such a weird game. Fascinating but so so strange and
00:06:07
Speaker
I've come across a couple of others during that time, like I had the Game Boy game. One of the ones that I did have, which was really weird, was one called Jedi Knight Outcast 2, I think. And at the time, it came free with my computer. Or I say mine, it was like the family computer in the early 2000s. This is how long ago it was, but it came with a bunch of other games. I have to say, some of those games were absolutely classy, other than was the original medieval Total War game. Nice.
00:06:36
Speaker
That's what triggered my addiction into that series but that dear listener is another. That is another episode in the making. So between that and between getting into the prequel trilogy at the time and then had the toys and everything, the only logical conclusion was that I was going to go for the games. And I ended up coming across Battlefront. I'm going to be honest, I think I came across this in a blockbuster.
00:07:01
Speaker
That dates it a little bit, doesn't it? Exactly. As I've said in past episodes, for younger listeners who don't know what a blockbuster is, it's a physical Netflix, okay? You go into the shop, you take the film or game that you want, then you have to rent it out and pay for it. You know, it was a different time, but I remember playing it, absolutely loving it, and there was a couple other games up
00:07:23
Speaker
late during that time like Star Wars Bounty Hunter, Star Wars Jedi Fighter, even Star Wars Clone Wars which I think that one came out in 2002 or when they say. But then also the ones you mentioned as well with Rogue Squadron 2 and 3. Never played Pod Racer though which is a shame because I heard that was a great one but
00:07:43
Speaker
just never got round to playing the Pod Racer game. But yeah, as I said, I've also played the Wii version issue brought up there of Force Unleashed and I have to say it wouldn't be until I got an Oculus set and played Vader Immortal that actually did feel like a Jedi, swinging my lightsaber around because you do feel as if you are a Jedi.
00:08:04
Speaker
I still love these games to this day, but going back
Battlefront's Release Context
00:08:12
Speaker
to Battlefront. Battlefront I remember playing a lot when I was younger. I remember really getting into seeing the gap
00:08:20
Speaker
that it would fill in the story and things like that. And it is interesting to see, and we will talk about this in the main part of the episode, but it is quite interesting to see how these games try to do their own thing, if that makes sense, because this game came out at a very particular point in the prequel trilogy. So it came out just after the Clone Wars had come out, the 2003 animated series, but
00:08:45
Speaker
it came out before Revenge of the Sith, so it came at this kind of middle purgatory point. So it didn't really have all of the things that we would get in the sequel a year later in Battlefront 2, but at the same time it's got a lot of good things about it, especially for the time it's got a lot of amazing things, but at the same time it's got things that maybe don't hold up as well. But yeah, that's
00:09:11
Speaker
It's really my history with the games. See without any further ado though, while we just jump into this and explore what makes this game... I don't want to say dated, but yeah. It's not not dated. Yeah, it's not not dated, but it's 20 years old. Come on guys. You can hear its knees cracking in the background. Yeah, while we just jump into it. Choose your class and respawn into the next part after these messages. And yeah, we will be right back after we capture this command post.
00:09:38
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and journal interests. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:09:57
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:21
Speaker
Howdy Beans, and welcome to my podcast trailer. Now you're probably wondering, who's this weird English fella talking to me about beans? Well, great question. I am the host of the Nerd Statute Podcast, Luke the Human. Nice to meet you, hope you're doing well, hope you're all good, as always. Now, you're probably wondering, what is the Nerd Statute Podcast? Well, another good question, let me answer that for you.
00:10:42
Speaker
The Nerd Stagit podcast is a variety podcast talking about all things nerdy and nostalgic, from books to video games to movies to TV shows, basically if it is nerdy and even if it just has the smidge, the hint of nerdism to it. Rest assured I will cover it.
00:11:01
Speaker
I'm on all platforms from Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, and YouTube. All you do is search no target podcast and you'll find me. So I hope to see you there really soon.
Listener Feedback on Battlefront
00:11:16
Speaker
So before we jump into what makes this game both a classic and maybe not a classic in some regards, would you like to hear some of the feedback that I got from our amazing Pandalorians at home? Yeah, it'd be great to hear what they have to say about these games. It'd be interesting to hear their perspective.
00:11:34
Speaker
So I was quite curious about the reputation of this game nowadays because I have to say there's some Star Wars games that do really hold up and to this day they're still played, they're still modded and I think even nowadays this game falls into that category but I was quite curious to hear what of course our lovely listeners and fellow podcasters thought. So our first comment comes from shoottheflick
00:12:01
Speaker
who says, God, the first and second battlefronts were amazing. The amount of game time I had on them was massive. And I have to say, I do agree with that. I do think that you do spend a lot of time on these, especially me. I spend ages even so I got my own copy of it. And no, it wasn't the blockbuster copy. It was a genuine copy. Genuinely, I played this almost religiously. It was so good at the time. But again, we'll get onto that.
00:12:27
Speaker
Marie from the Two Giddles One Reusable Cup podcast and fellow Podpack member. In fact, all of the next couple of people are from the Podpack Collective. Amazing group. Check us out at Podpack Collect on Twitter. She says, my brother never let me play. Aww, that's sad. Isn't it? I think you'll be getting another mysterious donor being like, there you go.
00:12:50
Speaker
It's like, you know that Hulk meme where it sees Holden out there? They're buried out. Yeah, it's just like you going, here you go, here's a copy of the game. Seismic Cinema says, Me and Colin used to play this on multiplayer endlessly. Galactic Conquest was just the best game mode. I used to cheat and get high kill counts by using the starships slash vehicles and the loading screens were also just so iconic. Actually, before I go into the last one, what were your thoughts on the loading screens?
00:13:33
Speaker
I don't know what it is about them, I just feel as if they're really iconic. And that sounds so weird to say this, see from if you've just played this for the first time in 2024 or you're coming into it from an outsider's perspective, but see when you are waiting for the game to load and everything and you saw the planet and you saw it slowly zoom in and it was as if it was like a tactical screen saying, oh we're going here, we're going there, we're going there and then it would load you into the game. I don't know what it
00:13:43
Speaker
It sounds like such a weird question, but I'm quite curious.
00:14:01
Speaker
was. Maybe it was the sound design, maybe it was just the hype that it built up per game but I know it sounds so weird to say that about a loading screen because in hindsight it's not anything overly special I would say but I don't know. I think it's absolutely fantastic.
00:14:17
Speaker
Fair enough, feed to their own. If loading screens is what excites you, then all power to you. I say I have horrible flashbacks to Sonic 06, but anyway. You always find a way of bringing Sonic into it. Oh, I do. Sega, hi, everybody. Please, I've got nowhere left. So our final comment comes from the game cop pod who says, I remember seeing it at a friend's house and playing it with them on their original Xbox, but I had no idea what was going on or anything since I had never seen Star Wars at that point. That is quite interesting.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, I can't imagine going into this game with no knowledge of Star Wars. That seems baffling to me. In terms of games, I have to say, this was one of the few Star Wars games at the time I remember seeing more or less everywhere. A lot of people knew about it. Kids in the playground would be playing it or talking about it. Very poochy of you there. When kids aren't playing Star Wars Battlefront, I wanted to be talking about, where is Star Wars Battlefront? Why aren't we playing more Star Wars Battlefront? Why aren't we capturing that command post, you know?
00:15:16
Speaker
I guess, why aren't you? God damn it. Oh god, the AI. We'll get onto the AI because I had so many positive things to say until I replayed this game and then I had thoughts. Oh dear. We'll get onto that. Oh, I'll get to you. Did you play the basement level? You're the Cloud City? Yes. Sorry, is that when Star Wars Battlefront 1 or 2? 1. Then yes. Yeah, fuck that. I mean, well, technically it isn't 2, but it's like me standing at the window there just looking down at the courtyard being like, I'll get to you.
00:15:46
Speaker
I'm gonna get to you. That one was annoying. I did fail first time and got it second time, I believe, but it certainly was not the one that I struggled with the most. Oh, we'll get to that. Does it begin with a G by any chance? I don't remember the names of the levels, unfortunately, very well. I should have that available to me to sort of to reference.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah before we go on and totally tank our reputation this credible podcast, I have to say one of the things I find absolutely fascinating about this game is not only the fact it's 20 years old and the passage of time is slowly approaching but the fact is that this game, although it's so old, is still so revered
00:16:26
Speaker
within the community and it's so revered that to this day I really don't know if they've managed to capture the magic of the game since.
Battlefront's Legacy in Shooter Games
00:16:36
Speaker
They've had reboots with the EA, Star Wars Battlefront games and I have to say I played not the first one again because I have played that years and years ago and I really wasn't a big fan of it. I didn't like the changes. There wasn't really a good single player attached to it
00:16:52
Speaker
I played the second one, and I've decided the second one had a good single player and a good multiplayer and everything, but it's weird to think that this is a game that people go back to. I feel as if out of the two of them, Battlefront II is probably the one that's a lot more polished and well revered, but this is the one that kicked things off. This is the one that people said, oh, I love this type of game. And whenever you see a similar game, it's like, oh, we want a game like Star Wars Battlefront.
00:17:20
Speaker
It seems to have built its own legacy. You can appreciate what it has done for shooter games, for Star Wars games, but more generally for team shooters, multiplayer shooters, commanding action games where you're controlling a group or a troop.
00:17:35
Speaker
can sort of have it as almost like the benchmark but like how they sort of everything's a Breath of the Wild clone or a Cheers to the Kingdom clone or something like that or Back in the Day Skyrim clone that you kind of had that to Battlefront as well and there was kind of comparisons made between each of these games so yeah I can certainly understand that kind of perspective.
00:17:51
Speaker
But even in 2024, as I said, there is a little bit of an elephant in the room before we go back into dissecting this wonderful
Issues with Battlefront Re-release
00:18:01
Speaker
game. I don't know if you heard much about this, but there was a, I don't want to say, remaster. You're on this Rebook Council, but we don't grant you the rank of remaster here. Thank you.
00:18:13
Speaker
That's why I was laughing to myself. So yeah, actually, as of recording this episode, it was only a couple of months ago that it came out where the Star Wars Classic Collection was really released. And everyone rushed to the game store to go buy it, and they were so excited to be playing their favourite Star Wars Battlefront game remastered with all the things they remembered, nothing changed, and it would be great.
00:18:36
Speaker
It went so well. I remember hearing so much positive feedback about it. Everyone was saying, well done, LucasArts. I think as a community, I remember everyone getting up and clapping, and you could actually hear the clapping as people said, LucasArts, you've done it again. That's what happened, wasn't it?
00:18:53
Speaker
That's why I remember. Yeah, absolutely, Andrew. You're 100% correct in that. And do you know how faithful they actually were to this game series? No, tell me. They were so faithful that they actually brought servers from 2004 and decided to use them. Oh, it's the little touches you like to see. Well done. And as you know, Star Wars fans are the most cordial fans.
00:19:18
Speaker
They're known to be very forgiving, they're known to be very progressive as well, and just generally very favourably thought of. So, yeah, I can only imagine that they were like, good job, well done. And if you didn't pick up on that, then we vealed.
00:19:34
Speaker
Oh yeah, the classic collection bombed on release, you know, it had graphical issues, it had server issues, it just had a whole host of issues. And to add insult to injury, usually when Battlefront and Battlefront II comes in sale, it's usually between the old £2 to £3 maybe, and in The Good Day it's usually about, I don't think you pay more than a
00:19:59
Speaker
in there maybe? I mean give or take it's not expensive to rebuy the old games but they really start at £30 a list here. Seems excessive. Seems very steep and for all those issues and things totally not worth it so yeah well done Spire, well done for that.
00:20:16
Speaker
Absolutely. You had a home run just sitting there. You decided to play dodgeball and said well done, but that kind of marred the release of that. But again, that just shows the absolute power and the reputation that this game has over people. The fact that it is such a beloved childhood classic for a lot of people. But before we go on to talking about the slightly aged aspects, what were the things that you actually liked about this game?
Battlefront's Game Features Discussion
00:20:44
Speaker
I thought, and again, within the context of when it came out visually, it was very interesting. I enjoyed being able to switch through the different classes of characters, whether you're playing as the separatists or the Republic clone army, you got a chance to sort of play through that. And the fact
00:20:59
Speaker
that the first game and the first level, unless I played this wrong, you start off as the bad guys. And I was like, oh, wow, they're immediately throwing us in being like, screw you, Gungans, because that was very odd. And I can't think of many games that would have come out around the same time, at least that would have been as popular where you were playing the bad guys. I know there are good guys and bad guys on both sides, George Lucas, but when you're a robot gunning down an alien race or trying to protect their home planet, you aren't the good guy there.
00:21:27
Speaker
here, my defense, they shot first. Gungun shot first. Jar Jar shot first. Jar Jar's dad shot himself first. Can't help with that comic. Anyway, sorry, come on. That was really intriguing, that like immediately it throws you in, you're the bad guy and you're the bad guy for the first few missions, I think, in the initial Clone Wars campaign. And so that was unique, being able to sort of be a trooper and also pilot
00:21:53
Speaker
vehicles and cop and turrets. It took me so long to figure out how to do that, by the way, because I'd hopped in, maybe there was an explanation of the controls. I didn't pay attention. And so it took me several missions to realize that I could control the other guys around me to a limited extent, we'll get into that I could mount a turret. I remember going up to the turrets and be like, I must be able to just like hitting some buttons and it didn't work. And I was like, Oh, well, and I moved on. I did not fully understand the controls for a while. And I kept pressing the wrong button where I would try and look down the scope, like you would in Call of Duty and I'd throw a grenade and I'd be like,
00:22:22
Speaker
I didn't want to throw a grenade. That all being in Battlefront 1, of course, because it was controller optimized. Battlefront 2 was not controller optimized. And me being a complete gamer noob was not prepared for the fact I'd have to use WASD controls and my mouse to like shoot and click, click and shoot and stuff like that. So that was a new one for me. I had to kind of figure out how to do that because I could maybe count on three fingers how many times I've played games that involved that. So there was certainly a learning curve there for me.
00:22:50
Speaker
But it was cool being, as I say, and cool being those characters. Cool very briefly being a Jedi. I didn't get to be a Jedi much, but it was a cool experience. And I liked the story they were going through that weaved in with the prequel trilogy. You can kind of see from one element to another sometimes like,
00:23:06
Speaker
this is where this happens in the movie and I've assisted in ensuring that this group won this battle and so I quite liked that kind of involvement but again what were kind of your main highlights of this series? I know you've played a lot more of it than I have so I'm keen to hear what you kind of saw as being the main or the best parts of it. Now I don't want to be hyperbolic here and say that this was our generation's hail divers
00:23:29
Speaker
I feel like this was our generation's Helldivers in this sense. I think that's quite complement to Helldivers to be honest. Oh yeah, Helldivers, you're prone to virtually with Sony, with Standing. A lot of people praised that game because they were like, oh, when you die, you become a different character and everything because they purposely give you like a different voice. You die in the game, you die for real.
00:23:52
Speaker
is such a great episode, I don't mind. But yeah, when it came to this, you know, they're all clones, so they all have the same voice anyway. I'm going to be honest, you probably died hundreds of times over and just came back as a different clone and you'd never know. But yeah, I genuinely feel as if it captures the lore aspect of Star Wars perfectly. I genuinely think for the time, I remember being so enraptured by just the different
00:24:20
Speaker
planets you got to go to, the different vehicles you got to ride, just the landscapes being able to be part of either these massive sprawling battles or small scale ones, the fact that you could pilot vehicles, the fact that you could basically play this game what
00:24:38
Speaker
ever way you wanted. Like if you wanted to flank an enemy command post, you could totally do that. If you wanted to, you know, go at them head on, you could also do that. There was just so many ways that you can play this game, and I have to say it's something you kind of touched on there, but it wouldn't be until the second game, which I feel as if improves things greatly compared to the first game, in terms of you can play as hero characters, like
00:25:07
Speaker
Jedi as opposed to this game where you could have Jedi heroes but at the same time they were very much computer controlled and I have to say one of the funny things was that the game had two campaign modes. It had one for the Clone Wars and then it had one for the Galactic Civil War and you know they were all really cool and everything but in some of the levels they would give you a Jedi or a Sith
00:25:34
Speaker
to assist you, and I have to say while it didn't really work as well in bigger environments like Geonosis for example, because the AI would just be running around aimlessly and not knowing what to do, I have to say the one I did where Google took a chic for the first time, Count Dooku massacred all of those Wookiees, I'm sorry, he probably contributed a fair bit to the galactic fur trade that day.
00:25:58
Speaker
because all I saw at the bottom of the screen was Kim Dooku's Gilder Wookiee. Kim Dooku's Gilder Wookiee had just kept going up and up. So much so that I feel as if he actually bet my KD ratio and I was like, how the hell did you do that? One of the other things I know this is kind of cheating because it is the music from the films but again the musical score is
00:26:20
Speaker
absolutely gorgeous because you know as John Williams music really gets you hyped into the game the levels have a lot of really cute easter eggs like for example in Cloud City you can actually go to the carbonite chamber where you see them pulling out Han Solo. You can just see a lot of really cool bits and pieces that are just scattered all over the level but as
00:26:42
Speaker
As I said before, what I find really fascinating about Battlefront is that it came out at a really weird time in the franchise because it came out between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.
Humor and Challenges in Battlefront
00:26:55
Speaker
So we didn't have all the information from Revenge of the Sith, so they had to make up their own classes and things like that, which was really, really bizarre.
00:27:05
Speaker
as you said there was some planets that they just threw in there and I want to say it was because it was in other media like the other Clone Wars game but planets like Renvar which I described to you as a lady
00:27:20
Speaker
And what I mean by that is if any of you out there are Simpsons fans then you might remember there's an episode where Homer goes to bull with Lenny and Carl and he doesn't want to get caught by his family so he phones Marge and tells her that Lenny's had an accident so she turns to the kids and says, oh I've got some bad news about your uncle Lenny and they turned round and go,
00:27:44
Speaker
Not many! And that's how I feel about Renvar, because every time it came up in the story, it's like, oh, we've got to defend Renvar from the rebels, or oh, we've got to attack it and drive the separatists out of Renvar. I'm like, what the hell is on Renvar? Why should I care so much about Renvar? That was the poochy moment, wasn't it?
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it was a bit of a poochy moment and like Renvar was just so frustrating. Eventually I figured out I needed to kind of attack from the front and deal with that first and then could go through the little ice cave tunnel system. The game tells you before you load in to like sneak around them, use these caves to surprise and sneak around.
00:28:25
Speaker
But what that doesn't account for is the fact that you get bottlenecked in this ice cave. And so when you come out at the enemy base, they have all these attack droids and turrets and tanks waiting for you. The amount of times we got pinned down by droidekas, it was like Zat Brannigan. They were just like wave after wave of men just kept going after the killbots. And like what the killbots did not have was a kill limit.
00:28:46
Speaker
they killed all my men all the time. And it would just be left down to like just me. It was just impossible. And so I got really frustrated with that. And I'm gonna deal with that. I kept switching classes, we're like, maybe if I am this class, I could try and clear the enemies and allow my troops to kind of get through. It didn't help. It didn't help at all. And so I eventually figured out that I just needed to go through the front with the tank.
00:29:08
Speaker
and blow up a bunch of things and then I could kind of clear through that way and that became a lot simpler and so that was a whole ordeal. What was your experience with Ren Farr? Honestly not the worst plan I have to say. I could take it or leave it. Yeah I honestly didn't have as many troubles. The only trouble I did have right enough and I don't know if this is like the way the game was programmed for this particular level but I feel as if
00:29:32
Speaker
on any other level whenever I was in a tank or anything like that I had sufficient enough health or maybe I was just better at dodging bullets and things but certainly better than I was because I was not good at that oh no I drove around the corner and immediately I just kept getting robocop'd by the droids tanks I kept getting blasted by them and if it wasn't that they'd all be in the hills and it's like Jesus the mountains are speaking binary
00:29:58
Speaker
Shoot the girl! Shoot the girl! Oh my god! Yeah, that was horrifying. My personal space Vietnam though for me was, surprisingly it wasn't Endor, whether that came close. No, it was Geonosis. Because
00:30:13
Speaker
Geonosis for some weird reason and they also do this in Battlefront 2 which is really interesting where any Star Wars fans out there please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure if you play Geonosis as the thing you can only play them as the Republican separatists but it puts you in the old armour from the first game and the second game as you've seen by the cover and everything it puts you into the when they say phase two armour you know like the one more like
00:30:40
Speaker
Stormtroopers than they do the Phase 1 clones. They put you in that to evoke a kind of feeling of nostalgia but my god I had such a hard time, see when I was playing the single player, trying to get through that because I just kept getting pushed back, kept losing, I thought right okay maybe if I take out the separated ships
00:31:02
Speaker
then I would do something, but it really didn't. And then by the time I came back, I was one for one. When I passed this mission, I don't know how you got by it, but it was horrifying. It genuinely took me ages just to get through that one mission.
00:31:19
Speaker
When I managed to get through one first time, I was very proud of myself because the majority of them only took me two, but there were a couple that were like three or four attempts. Renvar was the worst for that. It took me ages to do Renvar. When we got to the second game, there was a few that I just didn't get. The space battles didn't get. Were you not a fan of the space battles? No, I hated them so much. Oh my God. I hate the space battles with the passion. When there was an option to bypass, I was like, Oh my God, I can skip this. I was so happy because I was like, this was actual hell.
00:31:47
Speaker
I have to admit that is definitely out. You had to be there kind of moment quite possibly. I mean, I was also somewhat limited by the fact that I was playing on my couch with my mouse on like the armrest and wasn't really in a proper set up. And my computer is not fantastic. It's kind of set up for games, but like the motions weren't really working. And again, I was using WSD controls and was not super familiar with them. And so I kept trying to turn the ship and it wasn't turning very well and trying to shoot things. It wasn't shooting very well.
00:32:15
Speaker
was one point where I was being asked, they were like, they're bombing ships deal with the bombing ships. I'm like, what bombing ships? What am I supposed to do? And I kept dying and failing and eventually like getting the option to bypass and I was like, Oh, thank God, this is an option couldn't get it. I just didn't understand what I was doing wrong when I was supposed to be doing it was just getting frustrating. I was like, if I'm not enjoying this, I just don't want to be doing it right now.
00:32:36
Speaker
That is one of the things that I have to admit I found quite bad with this particular version because when I was growing up I played a lot of both games. I played them on the PlayStation 2, I've played them on various consoles since but I feel as if the controls for the PC version are very, very finicky and I don't know why if it's like a
00:32:59
Speaker
port and issue or what it is because I swear Saberna was on Geonosis. I was trying to lift off of the LAAT I think they called you know the Republic Gunship and every time for some reason it just pointed me to the sky and I was like whoa what is going on here? I never remember that and I think it's probably more of a PC thing than it is a game thing.
00:33:24
Speaker
I played this game on a console, and so I was baffled when it said it wasn't controller optimized. My controllers are kind of kaput now anyway, so it wouldn't have been a massive help. At least would have been a system I was more familiar with. I got it to an extent. I was able to play through it, shoot things. I did go for the plot bloodhound thing that was a you or Adam was super into for Halo. I was running past enemies being like, nope, just running to the check mark. Hey, that is a valid strategy.
00:33:48
Speaker
I will not be really dumb.
The Challenge of Space Battles
00:33:50
Speaker
In this game, it certainly was because there was one point where it was like, take this power capsule to X location. And I just like sprinted past all the energy. Like, not today. I got to the level that was on, but I got to the gunship that I was supposed to deliver the energy thing to. And there was all these droids around me and I delivered it successfully. And then my guy just blew up and it said victory. Like I was just dead on the ground. That actually happened to me today when they literally played.
00:34:18
Speaker
and it was like you and family guy whenever Peter falls and he's got like his hand behind his back. Yeah. It was like he sprawled out because I got blown up at the last minute and I was like oh thought of the republic and then I got blown up and I'm lying there like that and then the same thing happened it's like victory. There's all these droids standing over it like what are you doing? Why do you like this?
00:34:42
Speaker
I have to say the one thing that I felt and again maybe not from your experience but the thing that I thought was a little bit better at least in the second one compared to the first one was the fact that we did have those space battles but at the same time they did get quite repetitive
00:35:04
Speaker
Because the only thing that really changes in them other than the capital ships and things like that, the only thing that really changes is the skybox around with the planet underneath. Everything else is the same. You've got two escort ships that you have to bomb. You have to either sneak into the ship and blow up its shield so you can blow up everything else in the ship. You know, it's all very repetitive and I know they were developing a third game and there was like a beta, I think, that nearly got out.
00:35:32
Speaker
but in that they were going to actually have a kind of seamless ground to air type transition. So it's like hiding on the ground and you'd be able to fly up and you'd be able to go into space, which would have been a cool idea. And even in the new games, they don't really do that, which is a shame because that would have been really cool to see, especially in modern hardware. But
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah it's something that I think looking back on it doesn't really hold up but again at the time you did feel like you were part of these stories and I feel as if again that because we had the benefit of hindsight the Battlefront II was very much tied into Revenge of the Sith.
00:36:13
Speaker
because obviously we had the game tied into it and everything and we technically as well had Republic Commando, which I have to say when you're talking about the AI, I feel as if Republic Commando is the one that perfected that. Being able to tell your AI companions what to do, go here, go there, defend the point kind of thing. In the first battlefront it just doesn't work.
00:36:36
Speaker
I was saying this to you, but I was in one of the Republic tanks, and I remember I was looking out the window. There was like 20 of the separatists left and there was all over the year of us. And I was like, you know that gif of Walter White and Bernikin Badia where he's in the car? Oh, he's like screaming, yeah. That was me and the walker. I was yelling going, get in the tank. They're all numbering us. Get in the tank. And they're just getting shot to shit. And I'm like, no.
00:37:02
Speaker
I had to do it about 20 more times before I got it right but that's how I felt because you were screaming at these guys getting the tag you know like appearing picking up their child and they're leaping the horn going get it no time no I don't know that
00:37:18
Speaker
commanding officer. I was like you and I will be having talks in Camino. I felt as if again they did improve a lot more because I thought what was interesting and this is something that they never brought back until Battlefront 2's reboot in 2019 but the fight
00:37:34
Speaker
that they didn't really have to have a single player in this game, but obviously they had to because it was a different time. But the way that they brought it in and weaved it in, they could have just said, here's your instant action. You also had galactic conquest, which I feel as if that was more
00:37:51
Speaker
fleshed out in the second game. In the second game you had to go from planet to planet like chess pieces but you could also buy extra ships and things and you could intercept enemy ships from actually conquering another planet.
00:38:06
Speaker
It was really cool, but for the first game it was very much a line-up on the screen that's like, yes, fight here, fight here, fight here. But they could have kept it to that and instant action and said, yeah, go nuts. But the fact that they weaved in a somewhat story to say, oh, you're going to be part of this particular conflict, you're going to be part of that, granted they end quite abruptly.
00:38:28
Speaker
in some regards. But for the second one, they take more of a five-oh-first approach, which I thought was amazing before they reckoned with all the Disney stuff, which again, that's not a slight Disney or anything, but it's just the kind of way that the media's gone. But I always like that story, even though there's a lot of junkie in the stoop. But no, I do like the extra effort I have to say they put in, because you can definitely tell it's not just a cash grab. Seeing your point of view, would you say
00:38:58
Speaker
felt like a cash grab of a licensed game or… From my perspective, all games are cash grabs. Well, that is true. In this particular instance, would you say that? It seemed like there had been a lot of thought put into this. There was certainly a vision in this.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to say because I think most Star Wars games are going to be cash grabs to a large extent. It's just the nature of a media that's based on a separate media, that it's going to be an element of it. It's just a cash grab. But I think it's able to distinguish itself beyond that. It is a game that was well thought through for the time that despite the issues we brought up with the gameplay, I think that's more down to the limitations rather than the lack of care.
00:39:42
Speaker
that was put into the game. So yeah, it's a difficult one because I don't think this is a cash grab in a grander sense, but it's a game that was made to make money and I'm sure it made LucasArts and Aspire a lot of money. Well, I don't know if it made Aspire a lot of money. Well, I think it did make a lot of money. I was going to say maybe not as much for the re-release, but apparently, do you want to know how much it earned?
00:40:04
Speaker
How much? Or rather, how many it sold. So, apparently, seeing the United States alone, the computer version alone sold 290,000 copies and earned about $2.6 million by August 2006. That's incredible. I'll just read my notes that I've taken here, but it said it was a 65th by 7 computer game between January 2000 and August 2006, which
00:40:30
Speaker
I have to say considering the games that came out at that time, you know, the Trailblazers and things, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, I think that is very impressive. I think it's got a lot to be proud of from that, in my opinion. I mean, looking at the Metacritic scores and the ranks and things, it's just amazing to see how positive. I mean, we're talking in the 80s, 8 out of 10s, that kind of thing. I mean, the lowest I can see is 7. It's
00:40:56
Speaker
absolutely amazing to see how this took the gaming scene at least at the time by storm and again i can totally see how people were enraptured by this because as i said to you off mic i played a little bit of battlefront 2 2019's version and i have to say so you're looking at that game that game even by now standards that is absolutely breathtaking see in the way that it looks
00:41:24
Speaker
and the way that you feel running through the cities and things and seeing basically
Enduring Impact of Battlefront Games
00:41:29
Speaker
your childhood come to life, whether you're running through Theed or Naboo or whether you're running through Geonosis or things like that, it's brought life in such a vivid way. But the thing is, when I look at that game, that
00:41:41
Speaker
That is exactly how I felt about Battlefront and Battlefront 2 when I was growing up. I was playing these games and I was in the shoes of these lone troopers or storm troopers or rebels or separatists and you felt as if you were a massive part of these grander conflicts. It was just such a breathtaking experience and it does sound quite weird to say that and then you encourage someone to go and revisit it and then, you know, they play them and they're like, I don't know.
00:42:11
Speaker
I would still recommend people to go back and play them, but I would say temper your expectations because it's a bit like, you know, Goldeneye. Infamously now for the Xbox, but previously for the N64. The fact is that that was a trailblazer. That is one of the greatest FPS games that anybody's ever played. But going back to through a contemporary lens, you see that it hasn't held up at all just because of the way things have changed in terms of gaming and the way that
00:42:39
Speaker
modern gaming has really taken those mechanics and just made them so much better because I mean, see if you think about it, Call of Duty, although Call of Duty was out at the time, the actual trailblazer modern warfare wouldn't come out until three years later. I mean, I have to say it did pretty well to hold up against titans like, although I suppose it's in a different league, you know, it's not a World War II shooter despite what George Lucas tells you.
00:43:06
Speaker
But yeah, it's amazing to see how it still stood up to those titans of the genre and just made its mark in gaming. Yeah, I do have great respect for these games. The fact that they're still being developed and played and there's still interest in them both speaks to what we said previously about Star Wars' legacy and just the general kind of interest in the universe or galaxy far, far away that is Star Wars. And also in regards to these games, the impact that this game series has had.
00:43:33
Speaker
And I have to say, although we did bring up a couple of negatives like the day-to-day eye and the graphics I have to say didn't really hold up as well as I remember them. In fact, it's like when you and I revisited the town where, of course, we met for university,
00:43:50
Speaker
You know the way when you walk around certain places and you go, oh, we used to go here for coffee or we used to go there, we did this and that. You go back to those places years later and they look all run down and not as pleasant if that makes sense. You know, you have very much that sense of nostalgia. You don't get me wrong, you still have that fondness. So you're not going to be as harsh as you might want to be, but at the same time, you're kind of like,
00:44:17
Speaker
yeah there's definitely some critiques to levy and i do have to admit that does apply for battlefront especially because what i will say is although the second game does have its problems i do think it is definitely the superior version and the fact that people are still creating mods for it and things like that it's just it's amazing to see that these games
00:44:42
Speaker
haven't died. It's just absolutely amazing to see in this day and age, especially with the release of Battlefront 2, which I have to say Battlefront 2 2019, that still has mods as well, it still has a thriving community and unfortunately EA pulled the plug in that in favour of Battlefield 2042, I want to say, to very poor reception.
Comparison with Battlefield 2042
00:45:05
Speaker
I don't know if you've heard about that, it's just the usual EA shenanigans of poor servers, poor
00:45:10
Speaker
performance. P to win. P to win. Glitches. It's not a loot box. It's a surprise. Surprise mechanic, yeah. Everyone loves the surprise mechanics, yeah. A bit like a kinder egg. It's a surprise mechanic, of course. Our American listeners won't get that, but trust me. It's gold, trust me. Seriously, come to Europe or come to the UK. Find a kinder egg and then you'll know what I'm talking about.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, before we wrap up, are there any closing thoughts you have about this series and particular Battlefront 1? It's still a fun game to go back to. I do recommend people to go back to it with the expectation that it is an aged game and that shooting mechanics are interesting.
00:45:49
Speaker
It's like going back and playing GoldenEye where you're like, oh, this isn't that good, but I can appreciate it for what it was and what it is and what it led to. And so it's one of those games that's worth a revisit for that, but you just have to sort of set your expectations, I think. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that.
00:46:06
Speaker
I do think that at the time, this game was certainly a trailblazer in its genre. You know, you had the command post mechanic, you had the AI Jedi, as we mentioned, running about. That was terrifying after a bit when I was younger because it would be like you're fighting and you're the narrow corridors and Bespin as the clone troopers. And I remember just looking in the distance once and being like, oh, that looks like Count Dooku. Oh shit, that's Count Dooku.
00:46:33
Speaker
So, you know, you're blasting them and it's really hard. And I remember the only way I actually defeated them was by landing a Jedi star ship on top of them. Oh no. I just landed on top of us like, you have defeated Count Dooku. It didn't feel good though.
00:46:49
Speaker
I won, but at what cost? That is my confession of the night. I killed Count Dooku by landing right on top of him. And I had to because there's no other way or it's really difficult to count. I had no choice. All my options truly. What can I have done? What can I have done differently? Oh, it's that so good. Kill him. Kill him now. Iba dooba dooba doo daee. Indeed.
00:47:15
Speaker
there's so much to love about these games and I genuinely feel as if if you're gonna play the first game then definitely play the second one like see if you had to choose between the two I would still probably say go for the sequel because it's a lot more updated especially in terms of the lore and the types of troopers that you get in in particular the story mode that they have
00:47:40
Speaker
I do think it's just so much better but at the same time if you can get both versions then I would wholeheartedly recommend you play both of them just to see where this game started out from and honestly I cannot recommend it more but at the same time I would just reiterate what you said there. I think that you have to temper your expectations going into this game. It's a good game but at the same time yeah just remember this is 20 years old so
00:48:09
Speaker
You're gonna get a good game, but it's gonna be aged, it's gonna be slightly aged, but I would 100% take these games over the new ones any day. I mean don't get me wrong, the new ones are fun, but they just don't compare to the creativity of them, the ingenuity, it's just absolutely fantastic. So if you haven't tried it, I would recommend picking up the originals, don't pick up the collection. I know they've kind of upgraded some bits,
00:48:34
Speaker
but I mean the only other selling point I suppose is if you played the second one there you get a shirtless Kit Fisto. That's actually something I didn't realise was in the originals and it turns out it's only in the PC version and the Xbox version because it's an Xbox exclusive that you get Kit Fisto from the Clone Wars. I actually had an argument with someone on Twitter about this
00:48:58
Speaker
I didn't realise that you got Asajj Ventress and Kit Fisto, and I don't know why she's got lightsaber nunchucks. She's not actually got our normal lightsabers. It's really weird. I don't know if it's like our character wasn't fully formed yet, so they just said, screw it, we're just going to put her in as this weird ninja assassin kind of thing. But for Kit Fisto, he's got the wavy lightsaber and the shirt off. You know the episode in the 2003 Cold Wars where he goes underwater. Yeah, that was like the only time any of us know anything about
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah, he can swam and he's got a lightsaber that ignites underwater. Yeah, that's the episode that is based off of and I remember going to Twitter being like, Oh, that's so cool. I had no idea and had this very weird, I don't want to say Star Wars fan, but this guy going, Oh no, it's
00:49:43
Speaker
It's not based off of that, it's based off of this. And I'm looking at him going, how many shirtless Kit Fistos have you seen? Which he can say with such authority. Oh, that's not the shirtless Kit Fisto from 2003's Gold Wars. Welcome to Mastermind, what's your specialisation? Seems I'm watching Kit Fisto's shirtless.
00:50:04
Speaker
Yeah, I imagine explaining that in the Thanksgiving dinner table. What did you get that trophy for? You don't understand, Mum! You don't understand! Some people on the internet, honestly. But on that very disturbing note, Andrew, thank you so much, not only for revisiting this childhood classic, but joining me on the episode today.
00:50:24
Speaker
No, thank you so much for having me and I hope I know that I'm not the most experienced person with these games but I hope the insights I had into them as a newcomer were interesting. No, it was definitely interesting to get your perspective on it because otherwise it would just be me for an hour or two just gushing about these games. I had to add a bit of shitting on something just to give you more controversy. We were just trying to throw some controversy in there and get some interest. We're getting those hate lessons in. Yeah, before we finish up, where can these lovely listeners find your content?
00:50:52
Speaker
Well, you can certainly find me on more episodes of Chatsunami. I've been on majority of episodes for the last couple of years, but give or take the odd other guest that's on here or one of the other co-hosts that frequently joins. I've been on several episodes recently. I mean, to be fair, it's just probably you with a different voice on. I have been really trying to get into the voice acting industry and so I hope people have been believing that I am actually Wisteria Moth and that I do have that level of knowledge about Sonic the Hedgehog.
00:51:20
Speaker
Is that your Hannah Montana moment? This is the best of both worlds, yeah, where I do talk about my happy marriage or the hell that I just listened to once. I was going to say, I thought you were just going to like, pull off the mask and be like, it is I, Dan, from casting beers. Oh my God. I've been robotic battle toaster this whole time. I am the Podpack Collective. Oh my God. Is that your Palpatine moment? I am the Podpack Collective. Execute podcast order 66.
00:51:50
Speaker
This revelation has left me scarred and with a chest cold. Record it. It's hard to go on. Where else can they fight you? Other than the podfire collate and the foreign voice? Yeah, other than every podcast you've ever listened to, which is actually me, I am every white person that it's true. It has been confirmed. I'm all of them. Even me? Look under your bed. Oh, it's me. I'm going to be shaking my bed tonight. I don't even have space under the bed and I'm so going to be like, Hendra, are you there?
00:52:18
Speaker
That started out as an Oprah style, like, it's like onto your chair. You've got a holiday in Hawaii, but it's me. And then I rise, no, it just started a lot creepier. So apparently I'm now the Monsters Inc. Monsters 2. But no, going back to it, can find me more episodes of Chatsunami and you can find me on our other podcasts, Stop, Drop and Roll Initiative, a D&D role-playing, not let's play podcast, what's it called? Tabletop pod? No, there's no name for it. Critical role? Yeah, find me on Critical Role.
00:52:47
Speaker
I'm incredible role, I'm in mad pod. I'm also in the basement yard and trash taste. I'm also Joe Rogan actually. Sorry about that. That's a bit of an oopsie, but yeah, I'm also Joe Rogan. Find me on that. Don't subscribe to any of those Patreons. You can pay me directly. Just put some cash in an envelope and just throw it in a fire and it will get to me eventually. Because I'm actually also Santa Claus. I was going to say, have you been watching too many Hallmark films yet?
00:53:16
Speaker
Again, that bike you got when you were seven? You're welcome. Find me on Stop, Drop, and Roll Initiative. That's got dark rolly parts. You can find us on SDRIpod on Twitter. Find me, GreenShield95 on Twitter as well. And again, every handle that is on Twitter is me too. I don't know if I'm going to say the next bit, because I don't think I want you to find me after all. Don't worry, I'm already there. You are all the Jedi, as they say. I'm omnipresent.
00:53:43
Speaker
Yeah, on that horrifying note, if you want to check out more of our episodes, then you can of course check us out on the website, Chatsurami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to give a huge shout out to our Pandora and Patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya. Once again, thank you so, so much for supporting the show. And if you too want to pay for my therapy bills, as well as the build a barrier to keep Andrew out of the house. Nothing works, they've tried.
00:54:10
Speaker
That is true, yeah I've still got holes in the fence but if you want to keep my dreams alive then you can sign up to our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami where you get a whole range of goodies, you get behind the scenes content, bloopers, early access episodes and yeah some exclusive content so be sure not to miss it but until next time thank you all so so much for listening, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly stay hydrated.