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Healing Divides: Dr. Matt Salmon on Love, Family, & LGBTQ+ Advocacy
58 Plays7 days ago
In this compelling episode of Unsolicited Perspectives, host Bruce Anthony interviews Dr. Matt Salmon, a psychiatrist, LGBTQ+ advocate, and author of Pride and Prejudice: Healing Division in a Modern Family. Dr. Salmon shares his deeply personal journey of growing up gay and autistic in a conservative Mormon family, where his father served as a Republican congressman.
From surviving the trauma of conversion therapy to embracing his queer identity, Dr. Salmon’s story is one of resilience, self-acceptance, and advocacy. This episode delves into the psychological toll of conversion therapy, the challenges of navigating family dynamics, and how he transformed his experiences into a mission to support LGBTQ+ youth and their families.
Discover actionable insights on creating safe spaces, fostering acceptance, and bridging divides within families. Whether you're a parent, mental health professional, LGBTQ+ ally, or someone seeking inspiration on personal growth, this conversation offers valuable lessons on empathy, love, and healing.
Tune in to be inspired by Dr. Salmon’s journey and mission to create a more inclusive and loving world! ❤️✨ #LGBTQAdvocacy #mentalhealthawareness #HealingFamilies #loveandacceptance #unsolicitedperspectives
🔔 Hit that subscribe and notification button for weekly content that bridges the past to the future with passion and perspective. Thumbs up if we’re hitting the right notes! Let’s get the conversation rolling—drop a comment and let’s chat about today’s topics.
For the real deal, uncensored and all, swing by our Patreon at patreon.com/unsolicitedperspectives for exclusive episodes and more.
Thank you for tuning into Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Let's continue the conversation in the comments and remember, stay engaged, stay informed, and always keep an open mind. See you in the next episode!
Chapters:
00:00 Welcome to Unsolicited Perspectives 🎙️🔥💥
00:35 Meet Dr. Matt Salmon 🌈📚
01:58 Born Under the Spotlight: Early Life and Challenges 🏠⛪
04:05 Navigating Identity in a Restrictive World 💭🤔
09:37 Coming Out: Courage, Conflict, and Family Dynamics ❤️🩹🏳️🌈
25:12 Conversion Therapy: A Dark Chapter ⚡🛑
32:23 The Psychological Toll of Conversion Therapy 🧠💔
34:48 Finding Freedom: College and Self-Acceptance 🎓🌟
38:45 Political Activism: Fighting from the Inside 🗳️✊
40:56 The Road to Psychiatry 🩺✨
41:57 Family Growth: Bridging Divides 🫂💞
47:26 Writing the Book: Pride and Prejudice ✍️📖
48:30 Caring for LGBTQ+ Youth: Holistic Healing 🌱🏳️⚧️
58:19 Parting Words: Love as the Ultimate Answer ❤️🌟
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome. First of all, welcome. This is Unsolicited Perspectives. I'm your host, Bruce Anthony, here to lead the conversation in important events and topics that are shaping today's society. Join the conversation to follow us wherever you get your audio podcast. this Subscribe to our YouTube channel for our video podcast and YouTube exclusive content. Rate, review, like, comment, share, share with your friends, share with your family. Hell, even share with your
Meet Dr. Matt Salmon
00:00:35
Speaker
enemies. On today's episode, I'll be interviewing Dr. Matt Salmon.
00:00:40
Speaker
He's a child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist. He's also a manager of psychiatry at Whitman Walker Health. He's also an author, author of Pride and Prejudice, Killing, Division, and a Modern Family. We're gonna be talking about his
00:01:07
Speaker
So as I say at the top, I'm here with Dr. Matt Salmon, not Salmon. Like I said earlier, Salmon, like I said, he's a psychiatrist. He's an author. He's an advocate for the LGBTQ plus community. We're going to be talking about his life, his work, his book. Dr. Matt, it is my honor to get you on the show. We've been trying to do this for a little while, but we're here.
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm so grateful to be here. And honestly, ah my ah if you had if we had connected when we initially did, um we might be having a different conversation. well okay Oh, That's interesting. Might want to have to go down that road towards the end. Let me make a little slight notation here to to to maybe bring that up at the end of the interview. But I like to start off all interviews by going into the background. So tell me a little bit about your life and your upbringing.
A Challenging Upbringing
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, so I was born into a Mormon family. My father was a Republican congressman, actually. um And so my life was um kind of under a microscope, it felt like a lot of the time, but as a queer autistic a kid, kind of growing up in this environment, it was pretty challenging to say the least, you know, trying to grow up in as a, as a queer kid in a highly religious setting that, ah that, that really
00:02:55
Speaker
did not, ah I guess, agree if you can agree, if you can agree or disagree with an identity. me But growing up that way and and ultimately going through conversion therapy, which I did in my teens, um it it completely changed how I ended up seeing the world.
00:03:22
Speaker
um and And it ultimately led me to become the psychiatrist that I am today, and the the advocate that I am today. Okay, so let's let's go back, because I definitely want to get into the conversion therapy, but let's go back further than that. You said your your father was a Republican congressman from Utah, you grew up Mormon. Okay, so the first question that I have is, how did it feel to you
00:03:54
Speaker
growing up living in this structure because the Mormon religion is very, very conservative. And you have a father who is a politician who is very, very visible. How is that growing up for you internally? How did it feel inside knowing that you're going to church? You obviously look up to your father because he's your father.
00:04:23
Speaker
yeah But also realizing that what they're saying you should be is not how you feel inside. Yeah, it was. It was a complete like, I mean, well, so. Being born into it.
00:04:49
Speaker
not knowing anything different. So I just assumed that that was ah but you know that how I was was an abomination. you know These are the messages I'm receiving. um My own mother told me that um like gay to be gay was disgusting. like These are the kinds of things that I would hear growing up. And and so
00:05:19
Speaker
At the time though, like I'm just, you know, you're a little kid just thinking that their parents can do no wrong and that like that your parents are everything. And so you believe everything they tell you and you believe everything they tell you about yourself. You believe everything they tell you about the world.
00:05:41
Speaker
and it becomes like programmed into you um and how you see everyone else. and It was really hard because as I'm growing up and I'm thinking these things, like they shouldn't it shouldn't be this way.
00:06:01
Speaker
like
00:06:03
Speaker
like I'm being told
Identity Struggles and Self-Acceptance
00:06:06
Speaker
on one hand that like we should love everyone. right that all are God's children, regardless of their choices, regardless of the like where their lives go, or like how they start, how they end. It doesn't matter like that God's grace um extends to all, and yet that wasn't what was practiced. but And ultimately, I
00:06:39
Speaker
walked away from this ah or I mean as I grew up I just I became kind of a shell you know living life like just in this shroud of shame and guilt while thinking like that inside, like I don't feel like this is wrong, but I'm being told it's wrong. And i and it was really hard to just kind of um hold those two things at the same time.
00:07:11
Speaker
And so like I just kind of kept my head down and I just pushed forward. i would i mean you know I did everything you know that I could to be um as good as I could be. The best student, you know I did sports and I um i mean ultimately pursued degrees and all sorts of kind of education. And then as I look back, like I, I realize like I've made it my mission to like change the world, like so that my family would be forced to change. Okay. Yeah. Because no matter what, they love you.
00:08:01
Speaker
So you give them the truest version of who you are. They have no choice but to accept it because they love you. And by doing that. they grow. Is that kind of my, am I putting words in your mouth or is that kind of what you're saying? I mean, that was, that's like the hope. Yeah. I have an interesting story for me personally, talking to two of my, one of my, one uncle, one aunt, one aunt is gay, my uncle heterosexual. And I remember talking to him about having a disagreement with a woman.
00:08:36
Speaker
And she was like, I'm not your type. Why am I not your type? And he says, I like what I like. And I've always held that true to who I am as a person. Hey, I don't have to explain it to you. I like what I like. And I go to my aunt who is gay. And I went to her one time. I had to be in my 20s. And I said, you know, when did you know that you were gay or that you liked what you liked?
00:09:02
Speaker
And she told me, well, I always knew. I knew as a little girl riding back from the beach, looking out the back of the station wagon and looking at the young girls. When was it a time for you that you said, Hey, I like what I like and this is who I am.
00:09:22
Speaker
So, well, so I was nine when I first realized or like when I first, I guess, kind of understood that I was attracted to men or that I liked men. And I think, I think at that time, um,
00:09:43
Speaker
it still It didn't feel like at any kind of issue, but then the moment I started to be being bullied um was when I realized that like that there was that people or or that was when I started to experience messages that something was wrong with me.
00:10:09
Speaker
um and and so like that and Unfortunately, that started when I was around 10 years old. um that the kids at school just started to bully me and call me gay or faggot or queer, like those kinds of things.
00:10:28
Speaker
you know it's and how they, I guess, identified it in me before I even, I didn't even have the words. I didn't even, like i I knew that I was attracted to like that handsome man playing with his kids or whatever, you know but like I didn't know what it meant um until the bullies put words to it. yeah And being near a divergent, which is,
00:10:59
Speaker
I just literally, ladies and gentlemen, just heard this interview with and Mr. Thomas Wilson, who talked about neural divergence. Being neural divergent, it's tough to kind of find your lane that makes you comfortable, to find your safe space. And on top of that, you're coming into your own when you're starting to identify what your sexuality is from outside forces telling you this is what you are and putting a negative connotation from it. What is that like, growing up not only being near neural divergent, right? That makes you different from everybody else or different from the collective. And we're finding out that there's a spectrum on this. And we're not all so different. But depending on when you grew up, it would make you extremely different from
00:11:50
Speaker
everybody else or what things are being geared towards you as far as advertisements and things of that nature. And then also this realization that you're being bullied and oh yes, I am gay. They're pointing it out to me. This isn't just I think the that the father across the street playing with his kids is handsome. I'm attracted to him. It's more than just thinking that he's handsome. What is that like growing up in this environment where maybe you don't have a safe space? I mean, when I when i put those pieces together, I was terrified. And
00:12:33
Speaker
i and and And then from from the moment from that moment that I realized it through the rest of my adolescence, I just lived in fear. I i worried about like how I move my body.
00:12:52
Speaker
um I worried about how my voice sounded, um even like how I wrote things because um um if like because i i have I have pretty good handwriting and I would be told that I wrote like a girl. and im I'm sorry, but how can you write like a girl? I don't even know what that means.
00:13:13
Speaker
because it was like pretty. I wish I had pretty hair right Let me please write like a quote unquote girl, but go ahead. yeah I just thought I'd just stand out of some knock, but okay. It was everything. I know as a little kid, like I was being told I couldn't move that way or wear that thing or do this or that and everything would make me would make me a bigger target.
00:13:42
Speaker
um And on top of that, like I was getting those messages at home too. If I put something on like and i walked out I would walk out of my room and my mom would tell me that I couldn't wear so of what I was wearing because ah of how it would make me look. And so it was i I just felt so constricted.
00:14:06
Speaker
um And I i just, ah yeah, it was it was really terrifying. like I just felt like I was in hell, basically.
00:14:19
Speaker
um What is your social? In elementary school, middle school, we'll get to high school. But at elementary and middle school, as you're going through this, and and as you said, you're being bullied, did you have a social group? Did you have friends that you were just like, they're your buddies and that you did feel safe at? Because from what you're describing to me, you didn't feel really too safe at school. You didn't really feel too safe at home.
00:14:46
Speaker
Where was your safe space? Where was that place where you didn't live in fear? so um i ultimately and i i ended ah I ultimately made friends with a lot of girls because like the girls were really kind. They were just compassionate and soft and um and they ah like they treated me nice.
00:15:22
Speaker
And so I associated it only with them. And unfortunately that made put a bigger target on me because that made the boys um like really like drive home their whole gay thing like gay agenda. you know up And ah bullying me for only being friends with girls. But um the girls were so kind to me. And so like I had a few like real girl best friends that just took me under their wing and they just were really sweet and um and it was like uh there that I found my solace okay that's that was your safe space that's that's
00:16:19
Speaker
was the time that you said earlier that it was the bullying that made you realize that you were queer. When did you have, when was it that it really clicked in your head for you?
00:16:35
Speaker
And you accepted it, even though you were raised in this Mormon conservative household that said that it was the worst thing in the world that you could be, which by the way, I don't know how being a part of the LGBTQ plus can it could be worse than being a murderer. But okay. When was that time for you? What age and how did you come out to your parents? So, um, it was, I think,
00:17:07
Speaker
the that The time that really stand out to me, I was 14. And this was the time that I, when I told, when I officially told my mom, it was ah like Christmas night. um And she came in to say good night and i and I had been planning it. I like thought about like what I was going to say, like rehearsed in my head.
00:17:34
Speaker
um like thinking about just the right words and i and I sat her down and it was like something kind of ah very dramatic. I was like, mom, you should sit down for this. um and And I said,
00:17:51
Speaker
I'm attracted to guys." And I paused like I was expecting just some kind of just shame or disgust or what what have you. And she just said, man, lots of people um are curious about these kinds of things. like it's a It's probably a phase. Yoga out of it.
00:18:21
Speaker
um and And like I said, I was nine when I first like like was kind of attracted to um men. And so it's five years now. i'm like this So in my 14-year-old brain, i'm like fire like it's not a phase. It's five years. But I just I guess just didn't push back more. And my mom never said anything about it and didn't tell my dad. Like it was as if it never happened. Why did you tell your mom over your dad? Because just from this conversation that we've had, it it seemed that ah it was your mom that had said, you know, being gay is is horrible. And yeah I haven't really heard
00:19:19
Speaker
anything from your father, not saying that he wasn't saying these things. I haven't, the thing that you identified first with was your mom. So I'm just wondering like why mom instead of dad or had dad said things and we just haven't approached that yet in this ah conversation. Well, so a big part of that was because like, because my, my dad um joined Congress when I was I think three? three or six It was somewhere in like three to five ah area, and and so like he was gone most of the time. like I was pretty much raised by my mom only because he was in DC
00:20:10
Speaker
Most of the most of the week he would travel on ah Monday and then come back on Friday and pretty much did that every week. And so we only saw him on weekends. And you guys are located. I thought you were located here in D.C. while he was a congressman. He's commuting back and forth from your home state, which is Arizona, Arizona. Wow. OK, so yeah, he's a weekend father.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yes, he was a weakened father. And so I didn't really like think of him as a ah as a parent. And so my mom was my go-to.
00:20:48
Speaker
And so she was the one that I told. But what was interesting was that it was in my teenage my my teens, as I'm coming of age and like understanding this about myself, that I started to grow closer to my dad.
Coming Out and Family Dynamics
00:21:07
Speaker
because about a ah year later, after I told my mom, um my my dad came to ah like check in with me. um it's ah It's custom and in Mormon families for fathers to check in with like have routine check-ins with their adolescent children kind of as they're coming of age, to ah being the patriarch to kind of help guide them and counsel them. and so He was checking in with me, you know asking questions. the
00:21:45
Speaker
asking questions, started exploring like sexuality or like um like start like checking in wanting to make sure about like porn. He wanted checking porn safety, you know? And in his questioning, he just like asked the right questions and me and as an autistic kid who just couldn't lie, I just told him the truth about what I saw, what I looked at on the internet because I had already started looking at porn.
00:22:13
Speaker
um And so in that, he ah like ultimately came to understand that I was gay. And he offered me something which to me at the time, it was it was a like almost like a relief. um But what he said was, you know it's it's there's nothing wrong with you having these attractions, these thoughts, like these desires. um It's only wrong if you act on them. So basically- So he was preaching suppression. Yes.
00:23:00
Speaker
Okay. And, but I had believed that I was going to go to hell just because I was this like feeling this way. and Um, and so that was a relief to me and it kind of like gave me hope for the next several years. You know, if I can just like, as long as I don't do anything as long as I don't act on it. So I like dated girls and like I, uh, um,
00:23:29
Speaker
ultimately like kind of pursued all sorts of, like ah yeah, just relationships and things like that. And um and my i like dad saw me as a ladies man, and so I like yeah i was proud. or He was proud of me, and so we bonded, and it worked out that way. So this was through high school?
00:23:53
Speaker
You brought up earlier that you went through conversion therapy at what timeframe was this happening? Yeah. So like I said, it he, it was okay unless I acted on it. Right. By the end of high school, i could wasn't suppress I couldn't suppress it anymore. And I acted on it. And I like, I had a fleeing with, um, with a guy and I would, and it was some like, honestly,
00:24:24
Speaker
For the first time, like after like dating girls and like all everything, all this stuff that just felt so forced and unnatural, like to be with a guy for the first time, it just felt so natural and right. And and yet, like
00:24:51
Speaker
all of my programming was telling me that it was wrong. And so I confessed it. ah You it because you just felt, I don't even want to say you felt ashamed about it or did you feel ashamed about acting on it based on the way you were raised and what your parents believe?
00:25:18
Speaker
I felt tons of shame. Yeah. So when when you confess it, what happens next? So yeah, so I confessed it. And and the reason I like, a big part of that was me trying to like thinking, you know, confession and I'll be forgiven and then I can go and be a Mormon missionary, which is what Mormons are supposed, Mormon boys are supposed to do.
00:25:49
Speaker
But when I confessed it, the ah the leader I confessed it to told my parents. And and then it was at that point, that was when they decided I needed conversion therapy. Okay, I have two questions. You confessed it to a leader in your church and the church leader told your parents? Yes.
00:26:16
Speaker
in there, I don't, I'm not familiar with the Mormon faith. There's no like, what I confess to you and you like and Catholicism and confess to a priest, a priest that's between you and a priest, there is nothing like that in a Mormon faith. I thought there was. Okay. So it I was 18. I was even 18. Okay. and Okay. So that, showed so you were, I'm not going to say betrayed by the church, betrayed by this person.
00:26:45
Speaker
i was telling I was betrayed by the church. We can we can say that. okay okay were you were They me wrong for sure. And we're going to get into that because I'm curious about that. But okay, so confess to the leader, the leader tells your parents, you do you start conversion therapy. Can you tell my audience exactly what that is before ah describing what you went through?
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, so conversion therapy is a is a term for, there are other terms for it as well. And actually, reparative therapy was what my therapist called it. ah Repairing the broken bonds of masculinity or whatever.
00:27:23
Speaker
But anyway, all of these are pseudo or junk science that is pushed out by kind of ecclesiastic institutions that claim they have some kind of understanding of human psychology. And ah these are efforts to kind of force people to change from gay or trans or like any kind of LGBTQ identity to fit into mainstream heteronormativity. And so
00:27:59
Speaker
like um in they're in Historically, there have been really almost even like very abusive efforts. They used to do electric shocks, and ah they used to do like give people Ipikak, which would make them... like they would show them pornographic images, give them Ipikak, which would cause them to like violently vomit.
00:28:23
Speaker
And so people would become us associate vomiting and being disgusted with these kinds of images. Or like ah even in some, there were cats like people being castrated or even being lobotomized. These are kind of treatments that they were um prescribing. And unfortunately, the American Psychiatric Association Um, like gave the full stamp of approval back in the day because they were the ones that first classified homosexuality as a mental illness. Back in the day, can you give a timeframe exactly when that, when that is? I think.
00:29:04
Speaker
I think it started, I think it was first in the 50s, maybe when they first ah um pushed out there, ah when they first decided that homosexuality was a mental illness. um and ah And then they kind of had different iterations as they developed, and it wasn't until like 87 that they officially removed homosexuality as a mental disorder.
00:29:30
Speaker
um I mean, they still consider um like transgender identities as mental illness in the DSM today. They're also still super corrupt, but I digress. And ah again, this is coming from a psychiatrist. And yeah, so with all of this, it I mean,
00:29:54
Speaker
like the the type that i went through luckily i well i mean i guess if i can say luckily i mean i don't know um i wasn't like lobotomized i wasn't like like shocked but it was psychological torture because you know and that's what um uh and i say torture i don't I don't you say that just to be inflammatory, but because like it is it's psychological torture because you are ultimately um brainwashing someone to believe they are something that they are not.
00:30:35
Speaker
and you are complete And they're trying to scrub away someone's identity and take away the like one of the most core pieces of ah of what makes us us, which is like who like how like that that part of us that is the pole to connect us to other people.
00:30:57
Speaker
and And so ultimately that's what they're doing in these therapies is they're employing psychological tactics, gaslighting, and invalidation, and um and they do it in these ways that seems like it's therapeutic and it is cushioned with like love and like ah all about like empowerment. We're empowering you to be the man you were always meant to be. like You just didn't have a ah healthy like male role model to identify with and so you turned what was exotic
00:31:42
Speaker
erotic is what they literally said. and my like my therapist my My therapist has literally written books about how ah homosexuality is like he compares it to um um like a sexual cannibalism.
00:31:59
Speaker
Um, like, uh, yeah, you have to go feed off of masculine, eat off like masculine energy in order to like fill this like void void of masculine energy that you don't have. And it's yeah. Okay. Uh, that's interesting and different. I didn't even know that there was a thing that was masculine energy. Um,
00:32:24
Speaker
You could just touch it like a, what? I don't know. You can absorb it like Michael, like Prince's Ore or something like that. Like you just can suck in masculinity or femininity, right? that There's just an Ore that moves this out. Okay, so you go through the conversion therapy. You go through this torture. You come out of it. You are in college at this point, correct? Because you're 18. Yeah.
00:32:51
Speaker
What's the, what did, what happened next? And then what is the process from transition into that to doing what you do now?
Becoming an Advocate
00:33:02
Speaker
Yeah. So ultimately I actually decided after years of praying and asking God to change me, I was like, after going through all of this,
00:33:21
Speaker
I, uh, I knelt down. Um, and actually it was, I was dating a girl at the time and it was, and this girl was, she was great. Like I, she was, uh, she was the one that like taught me how to kiss, uh, or like, all right, I feel like I'd be like, she really helped me become the best, better kisser that I am today. And I would get aroused when I was like making out with her. So I was like, okay, if I have to marry a woman, like maybe this one.
00:33:51
Speaker
um but like how sad for her like if i have to marry a woman um like I wasn't going to comment on that comment that you just said. I was just going to let that s slide, but since you brought it up, that's crazy. Yeah. Right. If I got to marry a woman, you would, you would be the one that I choose. You are right. You are right for a woman. Yeah. Yeah. ah Um, and like, look like, thank God for her. She came to me and she sits me down and she, and and she was also Mormon and she starts crying. And she's like, Matt, I'm so sorry, but I was praying and and the Holy Spirit told me that we have to break up. I don't know why, and i it's not what I want, but I have to listen to it. And I'm like, damn.
00:34:47
Speaker
like
00:34:50
Speaker
Like, okay. Like, uh, if I'm going to, if there ever was a sign, right like, I think this is it. And so I was like, God, like, okay, if you're going to cock block the one straight relationship that I thought I could be in, then you must like, not, you must but have planned, like be fine with me being gay. And so I just, I prayed and I was like, God,
00:35:19
Speaker
I'm done asking for you to change me. I'm gay and
00:35:27
Speaker
I'm okay with that. And you know what, if you have a problem with it, you better let me know. But you have to tell me directly. Otherwise, like, I'm done. And how old were you when this happened? I was, I was 20. No, free yeah, I was 20. Yeah. So from age and nine to 20, it took 11 years. It took 11 years for you to finally How can I put this delicately? Accept you for being you. Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker
Okay. So you finally accept you for being you. God, I'm taking does not send you a sign directly saying, don't be you. He's saying, be you. Yeah.
00:36:25
Speaker
What's next? So... Yeah. So from there, um, I decided to make it my mission so with that my, I made it my mission so that nobody would ever have to go through that, we go through something like I did again. And so I, um, from there started to become like politically active. Um, obviously not like with the political values that I was brought up with.
00:36:59
Speaker
um um Well, I tried, so I initially tried to do it from within. I actually ah went and ah um ah like formed the log cabin Republican chapter in Arizona.
00:37:14
Speaker
okay And I was like, all right, I'm going to try and do it ah from the inside. And it was very discouraging because like what was I think what was so discouraging was not that these politicians like.
00:37:33
Speaker
believed any like ah or ah believed harmful things. They actually all were very in support of LGBTQ rights, um but none of them would do anything about it because they wouldn't get voted or they wouldn't get elected. Right. All of them would tell me behind closed doors, like, yeah, like we support you. Even the executive like Republican office in Arizona, like the executive leadership of the Republican Party in Arizona,
00:38:03
Speaker
would say like, yeah, we support you. Um, but like, that's not going to suppose. Yeah. And so. i at the After hearing all of this over and over again, I just ah threw my hands up and completely left that. and That was when I ended up going like ended up in medical school after that. and So I kind of just threw my focus from there into my studies and into becoming a psychiatrist and mental health provider who could then
00:38:42
Speaker
support and help people recover from environments like I grew up in. Okay. And, and what was the catalyst? What was that, that wheel that turned in your head? And because that said, this is exactly what I want to do because it kind of seemed like there was already a spark.
00:39:03
Speaker
When you initially set out to make sure that anybody who was a part of the LGBTQ community, I loved, this is my favorite word, had a safe space to be themselves. So you already had that spark. You're in medical school and you you're just, what is that thing? It was there a moment that you're just, I don't know, taking a walk or you're in a library or you're studying. You're like, no, this is it. No, this is exactly what I want to do. Well, so.
00:39:33
Speaker
One of the, I mean, a big moment for me, my dad ended up, um, he, so he had, uh, like retired from Congress in my teens, but then he went back. Um, and so, and he served another two terms and this was while I was in medical school and.
00:39:58
Speaker
He was interviewed. So by this time, I was like, I was out. And so it was known that, you know, this Republican congressman has a gay son. And so he was ah he was interviewed on live TV and asked, like, you know, having a gay son, does that change your stance on gay marriage? And he said no. And. And so
00:40:26
Speaker
What that ultimately did um was it inspired me because I decided I am going to be the bigger person here.
00:40:43
Speaker
and And so I decided I was going to support my family in their really ah um shitty politics, despite the cost it had on me. And while I couldn't condone their beliefs, like what i i I ultimately you know what supported there their right to believe as they did.
00:41:12
Speaker
And so I went on live TV and talked about how like, yeah, absolutely. I wish that they would be different, but. you know my you know As a politician,
00:41:27
Speaker
he yeah um his he his he owes ah his opinions to the his constituency. And so like he has to do what the people in but put him in power say he has to do. And I think from there, when I did that,
00:41:51
Speaker
They, my family kind of saw it as like an olive branch and it actually planted a seed for them and it started to change. And after my, I did my live interview, my dad took me aside and he, um, and he told me, he was like, you know what?
00:42:09
Speaker
After your interview, I was really thinking about it and um and I've changed. like i I do want marriage for you. like I want you to be able to get married.
00:42:20
Speaker
um unfortunately like he It was still something that he wasn't willing to like publicly say because how it affects his reputation, but that was what was coming from more that was what I was getting at home. and so i to me like That kind of lit a spark in me that you know if ah um kind of by extending grace and ah um offering that to them, um we were able to build this bridge and start to grow together.
00:42:54
Speaker
and And through that you realized, yeah, this is, I want to get in to psychiatry and I want to help the kids that were just like me.
00:43:09
Speaker
Yeah. And so it ah um it was, well, so I would say a lot of like my, like the conversion therapy and my experience with that is what kind of really gave me the passion more so for psychiatry and and working with with kids. But then when, but then it was like with the experience with my family, with that and how I could see ways to build bridges with families.
00:43:39
Speaker
It became more about like helping families who, like mine, may have like a ah queer kid and conflicting beliefs and working to help them kind of integrate together in a way that like they could create that safe space in their homes.
00:43:58
Speaker
So what you're describing to me is your book, right? Like the book that has recently just been published, Pride and Prejudice, Healing Division, and the Modern Family. I wanted to get into the actual work with the kids, but I felt like these two things kind of work with each other. And I was going to ask you, what does equitable identity-affirming and holistic care look like when working with the young adolescents in the LGBTQ community?
00:44:24
Speaker
And then taking that, I'm sure working with these children, you're helping them heal their family. And is that what sparked you to write this book?
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah, so like kind of see like the the um like seeing the my family grow and like and that kind of healing that we um ah that healing journey that we went on together is what really inspired me to try to offer that for others. um and so it's um Yeah, so I ah pretty much kind of put my entire like life and life work and work and education and everything into that, which also is kind of ah an exploration of the way that systems, um including you know from family to community like and religion, and and how and and then also how like just government and everything can impact the health of marginalized people.
Societal Impacts on Health
00:45:33
Speaker
um you know The main focus, of course, is like queer like queer identity.
00:45:38
Speaker
But, of course, weaving in neurodivergence and then um trying to speak to, not from, of course, personal experience, but like um like to other types of marginalized experiences that ah that also are impacted by social factors, like who's the health and whose health is also significantly impacted by social factors. When you say health, you're not solely talking about emotional and mental. Are you also talking about physical as well? Yeah. So there's a lot of research that has that in the last maybe decade or so, maybe two decades, has really like shed light on the fact that our physical health actually is up to 55% derived from social factors.
00:46:31
Speaker
So like what we what we now know is most almost most of our health is controlled by the factors in which we like live and and engage every day. So that could be like the neighborhood you grew up in. That could be your level of education. That could be your like sociecon i ah socioeconomic status. That could be if you experience discrimination of any kind.
00:46:57
Speaker
And so like we what we know is that like our society is harming people significantly. And and so like i i mean I think those that live it probably could tell you could have already told you. But but like we now actually have all the science to say that yes, this is true. um And so that's um given also given me ah another like kind of a new passion for just completely try wanting to dismantle the system and do everything I can to make sure that we can not just like change you know life for individuals, but just as a society at large, because in order to really in order to get to a place for of true equitable health,
00:47:56
Speaker
in America, we have to we have to create a new system. we can't There's no way we can with the one we have. So I find that ah find that very interesting. And I love talking about this. We always say that LGBTQ plus community. I think I said every, I think I said all of them right.
00:48:25
Speaker
oh But this community is not a monolith, right? Each each letter or identifier has their own social justice efforts. How can we make sure that everybody that's in the LGBTQ plus community, this large community that, that no matter which one you are part of, you've been thrown into this big melting part and said, you are all the same when you're not. How can you make sure that all of the social efforts are being addressed for each individual community in this large grouping of communities? Well, I think, um, I think it,
00:49:14
Speaker
when we when we just decide that every life has value. regardless of the like dollar sign that ah or like how much it contributes to this like capitalist regime that we have, or I guess not even capitalist regime, we're now a plutocratic oligarchy.
00:49:39
Speaker
um so you know like a um But I think if we all just decide that everyone has value, Um, whether or not they are, um, like putting money into the economy. Um, that's really all it takes. It's not that hard. I like, I, it's, it's really wild to me. Um, I mean, I guess like, I know, I guess it's so wild to me how.
00:50:18
Speaker
um how just coming from like a a ah religion cult whatever um where i was taught that like I should love everyone, defend the marginalized, um like feed other feed everyone, care for everyone. But then when I like try to put it into practice, I'm called like a commie or like a socialist, like as if it's like a bad thing. like it's so ah just I just don't understand.
00:50:55
Speaker
Like somebody please explain it to me because I think i think that was the question that everybody is trying to get to. Please help me understand how we're taught one thing. We put it in practice, but when we put it in practice, we're told that we're doing it wrong. I don't get it either. I don't get it either. But back to your book and back to working with young people that are part of the LGBTQ community and mending what would be what could possibly be friction in the family. here What are some of the things that that you write about in the book? just a summarant Just a summary, because we want people to buy your book. Just a summary of things that people can do to help foster a healthy family dynamic.
Fostering Independence in Children
00:51:45
Speaker
Yes, okay, so um you know't like for if if parents can just see their children as independent, autonomous beings that they need to like foster and like nurture in a way that helps them be like thrive into the individual that they are meant to become,
00:52:14
Speaker
rather than seeing them as an extension like as an extension of themselves, that they just have to like that has to like conform to every expectation that they have. like Don't colonize your children. like Let them just be who they're going to be um and nurture them. um It's the same thing that I believe our society should do or what I think we should do with education, which is individualized, strengths-based assessments of each child. um like so Parents should not treat all of their children the same. Treat each child
00:52:53
Speaker
as a different child. And each child needs to be assessed for their strengths, assessed for their areas for growth, help them grow in the ways that they need to, harness their strengths, and like, it's really not that difficult. um And don't see, like, no child is ever trying to, no child is trying to be that.
00:53:18
Speaker
Like that's just not a child in ah in a child. That's not an in a child. And if if a child is trying to be bad, that's because you made them that way. Like as a parent, you did that. That's not a default setting for children. And so if they are bad, it's on you. And so Like, if you can what if you can give your children what's called unconditional positive regard, Carl Rogers is the one who coined that, and that is, give them the benefit of the doubt. Treat your children as if they're not manipulative little monsters, um but actually just little things that are just going about the world, bumping into things, making mistakes, and just trying to figure out how to engage in the world.
00:54:08
Speaker
and they just need somebody who's kind to just be like, oh, not like that. Oh, let's try this way. Instead of just being completely demonized and criticized and like um and and being told that they're bad because just when they tried to do something in a way that nobody ever showed them how to do it anyway. like It's not like you you didn't Did you you didn't model for them how to actually behave properly? Did you in the first place? So if you didn't model for them how to behave properly, it's not their fault that they didn't do it.
00:54:43
Speaker
yeah With Dr. Matt, this has been highly informative. I know my audience has learned not only a lot about you, but for my parents out there, some things that they can improve upon for their children and for the people that are are young adolescents listening to to this that are part of the LGBTQ community. You are not alone. Dr. Matt is his here to help. Read his book. Do you have any parting words to say to the audience before we end this conversation. So i my the only I guess the only parting words I would say is like, if all else fails, just love. Like lean into love. That is what we should have be our default setting.
00:55:36
Speaker
That's, I wish I could end it on that. I've got to say thank you for coming on, but that was perfect. Love, love is love is all you need. That's what they said. At least that's what I think the Beatles said. Dr. Matt, I really appreciate you coming on the show and enlighten not only me, but also my audience. This has been a wonderful interview and I really appreciate you coming on. Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Bruce.
00:56:03
Speaker
It was my pleasure. I want to thank Dr. Matt once again for coming on it and sharing his story with us and sharing some of his work. Don't forget his book, Pride and Prejudice Healing, Division of the Modern Family. All of his information will be down in the description section here on the audio and video podcast. If you go on our website, he has specific guest profile section where you can get all of his works and just go to uslisciprospectives.com to find out what he's doing and find out how to get a hold of his book.
00:56:32
Speaker
Look, I love his parting words is to love. Y'all know I'm kind of sad. I, you know, it and I love people, not not all of y'all. Some of y'all are kind of dumb and I don't really want to be associated with you, but I still love you. I don't have to like you, but I still love you. And I accept you for who you are. And isn't that what we all should be doing? Accepting people for who they are and just respecting that.
00:57:03
Speaker
if you're a parent and your kid has come out to you or your kid has not come out to you but you have some idea and parents do. Parents are not oblivious unless you just don't pay attention to your kid, right? Parents without oblivious. Accept them for being who they are.
00:57:21
Speaker
They are not gonna be carbon copies of you. They're not gonna be many of you. They may look like you, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be who you want them to be. Help them grow, like Dr. Matt said, to be the best person that they can be. That's your job. That's your job, to help them be the best person that they can be. Not what they could be in your eyes, what the best person they could be in their own eyes. And you do that with love. So I love Dr. Matt for saying that. And also remember,
00:57:52
Speaker
that people just want to feel safe. And isn't it the most important that children feel safe?
Closing Reflections on Love and Acceptance
00:58:00
Speaker
Don't you want to give them those safe spaces to be who they are? Making mistakes is kind of a part of growing up. As Dr. Med said, you know, instead of punishing, yelling, screaming, teach them. If they make a mistake, teach them. Help them grow as a person with love.
00:58:23
Speaker
It might sound sappy, but it's also very real. I can't get no realer than that. I really can't. And Dr. Matt gave it to y'all. We're all real and I loved it. Very, very interesting story freedom and and everything that he went through to get to where he is today. Very, very inspiring. So once again, I want to thank Dr. Matt for coming on the show. I want to thank you for listening. I want to thank you for watching.
00:58:51
Speaker
And until next time, as always,
00:58:56
Speaker
a holla.
00:59:00
Speaker
That was a hell of a show. Thank you for rocking with us here on Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Now, before you go, don't forget to follow, subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcasts wherever you're listening or watching into it. Pass it along to your friends. If you enjoy it, that means the people that you rock will will enjoy it also. So share the wealth, share the knowledge, share the noise. And for all those people that say, well, I don't have a YouTube, if you have a Gmail account and you have a YouTube, Subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can actually watch our video podcast. But the real party is on our Patreon page. After Hours Uncensored and Talking Straight-ish After Hours Uncensored is another show with my sister. And once again, the key word there is uncensored. Those who are exclusively on our Patreon page jump onto our website at uncensoredperspective.com.
00:59:49
Speaker
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