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A Pal's Close Shave
74 Plays2 years ago
Join Dave and Jake as they talk shaving, horror games, Palworld, and even more in this week's episode!
Intro:
- Palworld OST - The Beginning
Outro:
- Brian Tyler - The Final Destination
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Transcript
Introduction to Soapstone Podcast
00:00:46
Speaker
How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Soapstone. My name is Jake, and I am joined by my co-host as always, Dave. How's it going tonight, Dave? It's going. Today's been...
Dave's Busy Thursday
00:00:58
Speaker
It's been a Thursday. Yeah. Every time. Yeah. Just a lot. I don't know. That's fair. Thursday, you're approaching the end of the week. Stuff maybe you still want to get done.
00:01:15
Speaker
But you don't yet have that Friday end of the workday end of responsibilities. Let's go into everything for the weekend. Just, it's a midweek feel. Is that what you're saying?
00:01:28
Speaker
Ah, not quite. It's just the meetings I had for work were long and stupid. And then I was cleaning a bit today. I threw out a lot of sound foam today. I debated hitting you up being like, do you want this? But I was like, what's he going to use it for? He also probably already has a whole corner of. I'm just going to show Dave in the video here a massive garbage bag, absolutely full of sound foam.
00:01:58
Speaker
Um, because I bought it from a distributor. Oh, okay. Like in bulk. And I was just like, I get to, I get a straight up, like cover the walls in this. And then I didn't need to, I might still someday, but.
00:02:12
Speaker
I don't know. So I'm good on like I need a very dedicated space that's not as big as my bedroom. If I was going to do that. Yeah, because like it adds up quick. And if I ever like, let's say it was having guests over, I don't want them to be like, what's going on here? Creepy dungeon room like, don't worry about it.
Optimizing Sound Panel Placement
00:02:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's the the what you what you really need most of the time for the listeners out there, a little bit of audio advice.
00:02:40
Speaker
is you want something on whatever surface is like behind or facing the microphone. So if you're sitting in a chair looking at your microphone, you want the sound panels on the wall behind you.
00:02:54
Speaker
because that's where the sound's going to bounce back and then bounce back to the microphone. In the case of a condenser mic, where it'll come in. So that's why you'll see like on streamers and stuff like that. A lot of times they just have like three or four panels back there, specifically just to catch the AOE of sound and minimize it going to the microphone. Although it's much funnier to be like, you have like a thousand panels. I'm just going to cover the ceiling and the walls and the floor.
00:03:22
Speaker
You just walk into the room, you say hello, and you don't even hear it yourself. And the tree falls in our recording studio. Do you hear anything? No. Nope. But that's fair. Cleaning up the apartment is always good. A little bit of that fall cleaning. I do.
Satisfaction in Recycling and Cleaning
00:03:40
Speaker
Do you get this? I have a little bit of OCD, not a crazy amount, because if you've seen me hang art, I don't give two shits if it's uneven. I actually get now slight enjoyment from people being like,
00:03:52
Speaker
That doesn't look right. It bothers them. But I like doing the Tetris solving of I have a large box for recycling and I fit smaller boxes into it. Ah, OK. That's cool. I like trying to fit it all in together at a point. Maybe sometimes you just step on it with your shoes angrily for three minutes. Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
But I like the assembling things together. Then I take out one fairly dense piece of cardboard, which is comprised of many different cereal boxes, Amazon boxes and other things. I like that idea. Maybe I would be a proponent of that approach. I do have like we don't have a garbage can, like a large plastic bin for garbage. So my garbage just stays in bags and I put it next to the road.
00:04:43
Speaker
It's kind of convenient because I don't have to bring anything in afterwards. But for that brief period of time, usually the night before it's picked up, I mean, there was just garbage on my lawn, you know, in the form of bags. But I do have one of those for recycling. And it's basically the same thing as one of those garbage bins. So unfortunately, most of the time it's more pragmatic for me to like cut cardboard with like a box cutter or something to sheets and put it in there. It was fun too.
00:05:12
Speaker
That's true. There's just
Shaving Routines and Tips
00:05:14
Speaker
some part of the reverse entropy of that process where I'm like, I'm making things cleaner and more efficient. Yes. God forbid I ever do dishes, but like, you want me to destroy some cardboard? Fuck yeah. I'm down for that. We tend to build up a fair amount and then cut it all down at once though. So it turns into like, this is a little bit of an effort. It would be more efficient maybe to stay up on it.
00:05:41
Speaker
But I do love just like the basic box cutter idea. It's just like, all right, we're cutting with his blade and stuff. It's starting to get like a little bit dull. You can flip it. It's like a reversible blade. It's sharp on both sides. You just flip it around. Same blade. Oh, that one's starting to get dull. Let me just crack open the handle where there is another blade stored and it's just it's great.
00:06:02
Speaker
I'll be honest, before our friend's wedding, if you remember, I was helping use a box cutter to essentially cut a chunk into a book where they were going to have the rings. Right. Yeah. And my friend set me up with like a box cutter and all these extra blades. And I was like.
00:06:21
Speaker
look at her kind of like, huh? Because I'm like, oh, a box cutter. You use it until it stops working and buy another one. Yeah. The concept of exchangeable blades only worked for like Gillette razors and toothbrushes and like nothing else.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah. I will say though, I think I've advocated for it before, but my shaving, face shaving like plan or not plan, but approach is to use a safety razor. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I use like a safety razor with just like the little blades for that. And for everybody who's like stuck in the market of just buying constant
00:06:54
Speaker
Like, Oh, this is a triple blade, quad blade, whatever. This one has 10 blades, like disposable razors. It is so much less expensive to just be like, Hey, give me a hundred blades. They're like, sure that that'll be five bucks with shipping. Yeah. That's yours. That's yours now. Um, I do love that. I actually recently got some.
00:07:18
Speaker
This is meant to be like extra blades because I already have a razor. I was like, Oh, clearly that part will be detachable and I'll just swap it out for this one. Apparently it's not. Or I'm just not seeing the mechanism to disable it without like snapping some plastic.
00:07:34
Speaker
So right now I just hold it between my, my thumb and my forefinger and drag it across my face. Oh, that's fair. Like I'm just like shoring up my cheeks. Yeah. Cause like I have a beard. I don't want it to kind of grow up and into my face. I mean, I might do the neck a little bit too. So it's trimmed, but.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, the closest equivalent to that. It's not a safety razor anymore. It's just a straight razor. But the go-to visualization, I think, that people might think of in pop culture, although this is not helpful, is Sweeney Todd. He used a straight razor.
00:08:15
Speaker
Safety razors aren't like that. It's got like a little bit of a covering above and below it. You could still absolutely cut yourself with it. But the idea is if you're holding it at a 90 degree angle, like it's not going to happen or not 90, 45 degree angle or 40 degree angle against the grain. It's it's very difficult to visualize and I'm not good at angles on the spot. But you know what I'm talking about? It's not going to like chunkier cut you do anything seriously.
00:08:45
Speaker
I do like your first attempt at like a perpendicular blade. Yeah, the other thing while we're talking about shaving advice is.
00:08:57
Speaker
Properly moisturizing before and afterwards. Huge. Huge. If you get like shaving oil or something like that and you can put that on your face, it is so much more difficult to like nick yourself. It's like heat in the form of like a rag or a towel or something like that. And then some sort of pre-shave balm or oil. Perfect.
00:09:20
Speaker
I'm full squinty eyes over here mainly because I haven't tried that yet myself. I hate it. The way I grew up as my dad taught me is like you run a sink full of hot water and that's where you kind of rinse off the blade in general and also because of the heat it helps be less actively irritating on the skin.
00:09:42
Speaker
you grab a little bit of that water put your hands in it and then you use shaving cream lather yourself all up. Do that until like the blade kind of is I guess too full of hair and shaving cream kind of rinse it off in the hot water and you essentially repeat that process until you're good. And then afterwards, I don't really use anything post I just take like a I guess like a hand towel you'd have like in the kitchen for like dishes.
00:10:06
Speaker
I get it fully soaked of hot water and then just put my whole face in it and slowly drag down. Gotcha. Part of that is it feels nice. The other part is it's not going to irritate your skin as much and it's going to catch all those little extra bits that are just stuck onto your neck or your chin.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah. All of those steps, I think I would include, uh, with the exception of the last one in my regimen. Um, yeah, I still use shaving cream. That's just you apply on top of like your oil to face. I don't always use oil, but I have noticed that like when I do, it's definitely harder to cut myself. And this could also be part of a function of a safety razor. If you're like a million blades, it may be even, it might be so difficult. It does not matter whether you're using oil or not. Um, but I will say for that last phase, um,
00:10:57
Speaker
Definitely don't use like, uh, shaving, um, uh, shaving balm or something like that with alcohol. Cause that could have caused irritation. Avoid that. Um,
00:11:06
Speaker
but a cold towel or a cold rinse on the face will cause, uh, pores to close up. Um, which can help a little bit if you did nick yourself or something like that. Um, so it's just different. I'm a bit of a free bleeder. I'll say it. That's fair. We got a bleed. What was that from? We got a bleeder. I don't know. Anyways. Um, probably a horror movie. Uh,
00:11:35
Speaker
That's my segue, actually. I saw a video on YouTube recently.
Analyzing Horror Films and Games
00:11:39
Speaker
that was breaking down, I've never seen Final Destination, but it was breaking down the logic of the Final Destination series and trying to establish what the rules of death were. And my only real interaction with Final Destination was as a kid, I was like, this is too violent for me. And even as an adult, seeing some of the quick deaths and stuff like that, I was like, this is not really what I'm into.
00:12:07
Speaker
It looks really fake, though, which does help a little bit. And then the last thing was there's a really awesome rock track for it's either the final destination or one of the really recent ones. The theme is just awesome.
00:12:23
Speaker
Well, we're going to forget to put it here. Who has the edit? Do you have the editor? I haven't. I think you do. I do. OK, I'm going to take a footnote here. Here's a little excerpt from it, the final destination song, if I can find it. And if not, then it's going to be really awkward that there's nothing here right after I stop talking.
00:12:58
Speaker
Well, I remember when I guess the first or second one came out when it's kind of like they were showing commercials or something on TV when we still back had TV back then. I just remember.
00:13:10
Speaker
Somebody was driving behind a giant 18 wheeler that had like a flatbed with all these logs. And one of the logs slips, you know, falls out, kills the person. Anytime I would be on the road behind one of those, I'm like, I just had that a little bit of like a little bit of tenseness, a little bit of white knuckling. Similar to when I played Sonic Adventure Battle 2, anytime I'm driving downhill,
00:13:33
Speaker
And there's a black truck behind me. I'm like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think that, at least for Americans, maybe this is an overreach. But I never saw it. I think the trailer for Silent Hill might have had that log sequence, but they cut the gore out or something. Oh, Destination? Yeah, Final Destination. What did I say? Silent Hill. Silent Hill. Oh, no, that's a different thing. Very different. Different thing. They go for different vibes. But it's really in the killing people genre.
00:14:02
Speaker
But yeah, I think that was like in a trailer or a teaser or something. And so I think that literally just exists in the zeitgeist of people that are behind log carrying trucks now. Already, people might have been thinking about it like, oh, what if the log falls off? But specifically, what if it falls straight off and goes straight through the windshield and just ends me? That's not super pragmatic.
00:14:26
Speaker
But it's a fear. I think it's in the same way that where any time people saw static on TVs, probably even today, more so like 10 or 15 years ago, people got a little bit unnerved because of how popular the ring was. For a second, I was like, is this leading into static shock or is this the literal static on the television? When you go to touch your TV, it reminds me of a black superhero from the night. That's all right, Bob. Maybe it was going to go. Voice by Phil Lamarr. No.
00:14:58
Speaker
I'm trying to think if there's anything else like that where I have these built-in thoughts or like knee-jerk, I wouldn't say fears, but kind of like, hmm. I think I don't, this is very specific. I'll finish the final destination thing. The TLDR is, none of it really follows consistency.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's sad, because it's a cool setup. The idea is you escaped death, so death is owed your death, pretty much. But they really don't do any sort of world building with that. If they do, it's very rare, and sometimes they invert the rules. Apparently there was one movie, because it's supposed to go down the list in the order people would have died.
00:15:48
Speaker
Um, but then didn't because the person who got the premonition stopped it. Um, but one of the movies, it goes in reverse order for like no real reason. Um, and then it's like, Oh, if someone gets saved, so they didn't die when they were being killed, it'll like skip them to go to the next person and then like come back to them. It's like, it's all, it's all just weird, but it's not consistent. That's the problem. Um, I will say I'm not a horror movie buff by any means.
00:16:18
Speaker
But I always enjoy when movies are well done. I think the closest I ever got to a horror movie was have you seen Tucker and Dale versus Evil? No. Do you know the synopsis? I do not. OK. Nor do my nor do our listeners. So in the gallery, do you remember who washes from a Firefly Firefly? He's in it and somebody else is there. Tucker and Dale and like they're just guys who like have a cabin like live out in the woods, their buddies.
00:16:48
Speaker
Um, but like they're really just completely normal people and then like some teenagers or I guess like a young ish people, maybe early twenties, like show up for the weekend as like, uh, like, you know, things are going to happen to them.
00:17:04
Speaker
But again, these guys are completely normal guys, absolutely good guys. But these kids keep getting into situations where they die. They're like, what the fuck's happening? Why do these kids keep dying? And then every time, they just happen to be around. So they assume that these people who live out in this cabin are the ones committing these atrocities.
00:17:26
Speaker
Um, that's so good. And like many times, like they're trying to save them and it just doesn't work out. Um, it's the, uh, the like national lampoon style, like humor where it's just like, oh, they're both behind a sheet and he's really trying to save them, but it looks like he's strangling them or something. Yeah. A lot of stuff like that. Um, I mean, it does actually go somewhere with like a resolution, everything, but I, I enjoy the idea of that.
00:17:54
Speaker
Cause like they're just trying to, you know, hang out and live and these people show up and just start dying on their property. Yeah. No, that is, that is an awesome premise. And I think it just absolutely eclipsed anything from this room. This was a, one of those like YouTube documentary length videos where they're just really going into detail on it. And final destination is not like that. And a lot of times it's just like, Oh, we got to the end of the movie. Let's just kill everybody off. You're like, okay.
00:18:22
Speaker
I guess. Or maybe they let people live and it doesn't make any sense because now it's not consistent with the rules. Whatever. I think those would still fall under like a slasher flick. Yes. Where like all these people are going to die. Maybe you want to survive so they can be in the sequel or they can have like a little bit of cliffhanger or whatever it is.
00:18:44
Speaker
They have like dumb storytelling though, compared to like the setup you had, right? Cause final destination, it's supposed to literally be death, but the way that they inform the main characters, like in the first show is it's just like they go to see the corpse of somebody who was killed after this. And the coroner is just like,
00:19:04
Speaker
Death's coming for you. And he literally just gives them the verbatim dump about how they're going to die because of all this. And you're like, okay, it's the supernatural guide type character. That's something. But it is the laziest form of storytelling. They're like, we have no idea for that. There's no way they could just figure this out. So just tell them.
00:19:26
Speaker
That'll make them scared and you know, that'll be their state for the rest of the movie. I don't know what it was, but I recently did also click on like a horror movie synopsis for like the history of
00:19:40
Speaker
I was always curious about the trailers for the movie Pearl. Pearl, okay. Which is tied to the movie X, which is like some of the A24 stuff. It was interesting, but not my jam. Yeah. But then it kind of segued into more of that person's channel and they also had something for Jennifer's Body, which I never watched, but I have
00:20:04
Speaker
Maybe I saw some scenes from it on YouTube or remember people talking about it, mainly because Megan Fox and Amanda Seifried kissed in the movie, and that clip has the most views on YouTube. WatchMojo has 20,000 views, 20,000 views, 20,000 views, 400,000 views, 20,000 views. Yeah, you know where the clip is.
00:20:27
Speaker
But no, it's it's kind of like a fun universe to explore, but kind of still be distant from it. Like, I know you're big on looking up stuff for like Dead by Daylight. Yeah. You've never played it yourself, but it's interesting. I launched it. Oh, OK. I launched it to use blood points redemption code and then I closed it. Thank you, Amazon rewards or whatever for that. So you haven't played it. No, I do know a lot about it, though. I do watch it a lot.
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it's an interesting thing to follow. But yeah, like I saw a clip from Hellraiser on YouTube and I was immediately like, nope, no, no, no. It's such a cool, so the Cenobite is the villain from Hellraiser that's in Dead by Daylight, Pyramid, or Pinhead, right? Yes.
00:21:20
Speaker
And his power is so cool. Like while he's chasing people, he can, you can like hold a button to go into like a rapid traversal mode. You leave your body, have a little out of body experience where you can like
00:21:35
Speaker
zoop really far ahead and then cause a hook to materialize, come through a portal in the air and then try to grab somebody with the hook. So his thing is he doesn't just traditionally just chase people. He's chasing people, but then you'll see him stop for just a second and then a hook will just come out of the air and like grab you to like slow you down so you can catch you. It's so cool. Like I love, I love Cinnamite stuff. Sorry, you mentioned Hellraiser. That was, that was my trigger.
00:22:01
Speaker
I mean, that's really all I know about. Yeah. The other cool thing is, and I also haven't seen Hellraiser, but they have a cube in that, which is like one of the main plot devices for the movie. I think it's called the the Lament configuration or something like that. But even though it's a cube where you could very clearly just like twist it twice and then slide it together,
00:22:27
Speaker
It's basically an artifact that evil people, I guess, are compelled to solve. And so if they solve it, that's the trigger for the Cenobites to come chase them down and bring them to hell, which is weird world building.
00:22:47
Speaker
This is why I don't do puzzles, man. It's in the game, too, in Dead by Daylight. Sometimes the villains, the killers, will have a meta objective they'll place in the map. And for Cinnabyte, for Pinhead, there will be a cube somewhere on the map. And if the survivors find it, they can spend some time solving it, basically like fill a progress bar.
00:23:10
Speaker
Um, but when you start solving it, it alerts him, uh, pinhead where you're at and he can come through a portal to interrupt you. Like just portal to right where you're at. But maybe that takes him away from a chase or, you know, something else going on.
00:23:28
Speaker
If you complete the cube, then you basically have bought everyone a bunch of time, uh, for the match, um, where you're not like being harassed, but if he gets the cube, he can instantly solve it. And it causes a chain hunt, which is everywhere across the map. Chains just start spawning and grabbing people and like keeping them from doing things. It's just crazy. It's really cool. Speaking of chains. Mm-hmm.
00:23:54
Speaker
We haven't played payday. No, no, no. So on that theme, I've really always loved the aesthetic of spawn. Oh, yeah. It's so fucking like I think Mortal Kombat 11 has spawn. I don't remember if he uses chains as much. He uses cape. I know. Yes. But he's just so fucking cool. Always appreciate the aesthetic. I appreciate the voice acting by.
00:24:24
Speaker
God damn it. I literally looked him up yesterday. Yes. Yeah. Keith David. Also is the voice of Gargoyle from Gargoyle. And soon the voice of Zavala. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Forgot your replacement, first of all. But no, I love his voice. But yeah, just a cool fucking character. And I love that. I guess it's Seth MacFarlane aesthetic from 80s, 90s. Mm hmm. Yeah. He was the movie was dog shit. But the author, I think. Yeah.
00:24:53
Speaker
or mine is used with Seth MacFarlane from Family Guy. Yes. He's very, very practiced. Works on a lot of things. Yeah, no, I like the horror motif, but I'm pretty much with you. I wouldn't really watch a.
00:25:10
Speaker
I don't think I would watch a horror movie. Like, I don't know what I would get out of it. I guess some people want to be thrilled. They want to be, you know, put in this situation. And some of the movies you mentioned, it's often paired with like, this is a summer teen, like we're going to like bump up nudity and violence and just have this be a thriller or something like that.
00:25:31
Speaker
um i don't personally look for those kinds of movies i've never seen nudity and been like do you know what this is missing some violence yeah because i know like the uh final destination had one of the ways two people had died is they were like they got into tanning beds
00:25:50
Speaker
Um, and there's like a top listing like for a couple seconds, like while they're crawling into the beds or whatever. And you're just like, yep, that was for the audience. Like that's exactly what this is. Um, and then like something drips like onto the bed, some like, uh,
00:26:06
Speaker
plasma gunk or whatever and like overheats them and then like what happens is a plank falls down not on top of the beds just to hold them close literally between the beds so it's like holding both of the handles down so they can't escape and they like burn to death whatever but like it's so apparently it immediately cuts to their caskets in the exact same configuration as the tanning beds which is actually just brilliant cinematography
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't normally watch that but it can be you can have really compelling world building in horror games. I'm a fan of that. I like I like being thrilled to a degree. Like I enjoyed some of the Alfred Hitchcock stuff. Not the birds. That was a bad movie. Rosebud.
00:27:01
Speaker
But like there are some other good things where I feel titulated. I feel like a little bit of the anxiety of some of the characters. Yeah. But there's not outright fear. I don't like being jump scared. Yeah. I don't want to go to sleep and have like a do you remember when that lady ate somebody and like, no, I don't I don't want like the the horror part of it. Mm hmm. Because I don't get anything from that. It's just it's just negative reaction all over.
00:27:28
Speaker
Exactly. That's actually the one of the reasons I'm not going to go into another two minute rant about Dead by Daylight. But one of the reasons I appreciate the format of that game is there really aren't
00:27:40
Speaker
killers that jump scare you or if they do, it's kind of on you. The game specifically tells you in the form of like their, they have like a threat radius around them and the music will change if the killer is nearby. So they can't just like pop around a corner and be like, you had no idea I was here most of the time. But it can be really tense running away from them because
00:28:05
Speaker
Maybe you're on your last hook. So you know that if you get caught, you're going to die. Or maybe your teammates are struggling. Or maybe you're the last one up, and the killer has knocked everybody else on the ground. And if they knock you down, it's over. Right? So that's kind of what I feel about lethal companies, the closest I get to it. Because you're minding your own business, collecting loot in the dark, and then shit goes down. Like the thing that always fucks me up is the coil heads.
00:28:35
Speaker
Cause you hear them ever so briefly and then you'd look at them and they just stop and there's spring. I know I already said this when we were talking about least the company before, but then trying to like navigate that situation and like running away from stuff actively. I do feel like the blood pumping. Yeah. And I like some of that. Um, but I don't want to be in that state constantly. Yes. Yeah.
00:29:00
Speaker
I think that's fair. And even like a good horror movie probably doesn't keep you in a state of suspense all the time. It's all about
00:29:08
Speaker
the highs and the lows to keep you thrilled because you can actually just get desensitized to it at a point. If that happens, then it doesn't matter what's in the rest of your movie. They reach their physiological thrill cap and they're just like, if they die, they die. You got to keep people invested and guessing.
00:29:33
Speaker
Um, that's why it's really good to have, I guess, like tread that balance of something's unnerving and you're always concerned that like, you know, something could happen. You get the feeling like this person who is the perceivably evil person or the entity, whatever the hell it is, you're like, okay, when is it striking next? Yeah. Cause sometimes it'll like get dangerously close. You're like, Oh,
00:29:57
Speaker
It's always teetering that line. And then you kind of get the payoff when something does happen.
Engagement in Horror Media
00:30:02
Speaker
They're like, oh, when's it going to happen again? Yes. Yeah, I think I think the best games can get you can hit you with that without like just short cutting to cheap things like jump scares or whatever. Right. They build tension. Tension would be the word for it. Yeah. Like. I don't know if I'd throw dead space in that.
00:30:25
Speaker
But like there definitely is a lot of good sound design that kind of keeps you tense. A lot of times you're going in the dark. You need to cut power to get access to something else. And then there's always stuff lurking in a vent or they'll kind of have something run by a window.
00:30:42
Speaker
they hit you on your toes. They hit you with both forms of it too because like if you're inside you might hear those sounds something like scurrying through the vents like you mentioned but if you're in zero G that's one of the games where they respect the whole like there's no sound in space and then you're more likely to actually kind of get jump scared but
00:31:02
Speaker
not really sort of, I mean, I mean, you could, you could, but like somebody could just walk up on it. Yeah. Why is the Clark getting hit by something? You're like, what the fuck was that? Usually a projectile from a baby. Yeah. But yeah. Um, so they do both, right? They, they, they hit you with the sensory feedback that would make you nervous. And then they completely deprive you of your senses. Um,
00:31:26
Speaker
I don't know if I mentioned it on the show before, but that was an idea.
00:31:33
Speaker
I don't wanna make games. I don't really particularly have that much of an interest in ever making games, but an idea for a game would be a co-op game where people do not have access to each other's senses, basically. And then you put them in a horror situation, right? So like someone has to guide someone who cannot see away from a monster or something like that. And I think that could be,
00:32:00
Speaker
That could be really intense. So I will say to a degree. We were here. The friendship does kind of have an element of that. Right. Did you get a chance to play that? I don't think we played. So we played one of the earlier. We were here for. I played with Landon the one time.
00:32:20
Speaker
But basically, one of you goes into a room and essentially gets shit faced high. And basically we found out that you can't necessarily trust your senses. So like you see things that are different from what the person who is not high sees. So I was playing the not high person for a little bit. So I'd essentially be up higher up and I'd say like, oh, Landon, you can go here. This is still actual stuff.
00:32:45
Speaker
We were struggling a little bit, and at some point we switched places, and I actually got to experience what he was seeing, where I saw a ground before, it literally looks like it just drops off. Or it'd be like, hey, you want to go here, but there's actually nothing there. So it's kind of encouraging, because you really have to communicate. And there's a point later where you're essentially running from a ghost train or something, so you have to follow this track.
00:33:10
Speaker
So we're shouting out things like, go, stop, turn 45 degrees. And we had to navigate this thing that took quite a few tries. But it was a cool system of utilizing that teamwork of both of you have a different piece of the puzzle. Yes. Yeah.
00:33:29
Speaker
It kind of like, if this was implemented in horror, if there was a horror game for this, I think Saw would be a pretty good fit because their whole shtick is like, you have to work together and make sacrifices to survive, but generally not other people. The whole thing is like, what will you give of yourself to escape and help others escape? But that's a really cool idea.
00:33:57
Speaker
I'm, I'm a fan of that from a, from a co-op perspective. Um, but I don't know, I guess I've played, I was going to say, I don't really play horror games, but I played more horror games now than I think I probably expected to ever do. My desk space kind of counts, but amnesia, you know, would count. I would say the both of those count as kind of the extent of what I probably played. Yeah. Uh, I did play a little bit of penumbra and one or two other.
00:34:29
Speaker
Like Machine for Pigs, I did. That's another Amnesia title. Oh, that was a lot of eyes closed, though. That was that was uncomfortable. Yeah, more so. It wasn't as like the horror is hidden. It's like we're going to have lots of pigs squealing. I'm like, oh, this is terrible. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:48
Speaker
There was a game that was going around on Twitch, forgetting the name of it, but essentially you had to go and explore through the game, whatever you had to do to traverse from point A to the eventual destination. But the mechanic was if you screamed or like made a loud noise, it would pick up on your mic and you'd get restarted back at the beginning. Got you. Reset all of your progress. That's pretty rough. Is it not like
00:35:16
Speaker
It just screamed and then there's like a cut scene and you die and it sends you back. Or is it just like, we got your screams back to main menu. What is. Because what you're describing while you look for this, what you're describing mechanically is kind of how the, uh, the eyeless dogs work in a lethal company. Right. Like sound is a detriment. And there, there are clips on YouTube of people who are just like.
00:35:43
Speaker
This game is biased against mechanical keyboard users. You just get your clicky clackies and the dog runs over and eats you. My brain always goes to, I got my swim trunks. I got my clicky clackies. Uh-huh. Yeah. So the game is actually just called don't scream. Gotcha. Okay. And it has like a little level that kind of picks up, but no, it will just say like,
00:36:08
Speaker
you lost, you died, whatever it is, and just send you back. But I think as you go, it gets progressively spookier. I'm sure there are some things that maybe you have to run from, but it looks a lot more of like a first person view, and it looks a lot more realistic then.
00:36:28
Speaker
a game. It looks a lot more like body cam. Gotcha. OK. So interesting concept. Oh, yeah, for sure. I don't know. I don't know if I would want to play something like that just because the novelty, depending on how what the scream detection is, my brain goes to the technical side. Right. It's like, what if somebody walks up and they're like, hey, do you want any dinner? And your mics just like that was a scream. Go back. Right. That'd be pretty miserable. Or you just unplug your mic and go with. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
I do like things that kind of utilize the technology in that way. I'm sure we talked about this at some point. There was a game called
00:37:09
Speaker
You keep putting yourself in these positions. I do. I gotta never speak. I have to look something up actively ahead of time. It's called before your eyes. This is me by a friend. But anytime you blinked, it would progress to the next scene. So if you wanted to immerse yourself in what was going on, you had to actively keep your eyes open and look around.
00:37:29
Speaker
to kind of get more of the story. But if you blinked, it would do a jump cut to maybe like a year in the future to like the next scene. So I thought that was a really interesting way to leverage that. Yeah, it's kind of like one of those artsy tech demo type games in a way. But that novelty is is really cool, right? If no one's done it before, you might as well do it, even if this isn't something that, you know, like is a conventional game.
00:37:56
Speaker
So I do think that's really cool. Although I will admit for how advanced motion controls are, and VR is, and things like that, I don't really look for those in games. It's been a long time since I used the VR headset for anything.
00:38:18
Speaker
And mostly I'm on PC, so I don't even have the option for motion controls most of the time. But even if I was playing like a Nintendo game, unless it's very explicitly like, hey, motion controls are the best way to play this, I probably would leave them off.
00:38:34
Speaker
No, it's I feel like a lot of times it's just I wouldn't say a gimmick, but like, let's say you're a Dark Souls content creator and there's not a new Souls game. How do you essentially go back and make it different? Oh, that's fair. Oh, you have like a specific weapon run. You have a hit list run. You have a oh, my dudes in VR first person where I have to literally tuck my head to do a role testing.
00:38:59
Speaker
You beat Dark Souls 2 with Bongo, so that's your control. I can't imagine what sociopath would do that.
00:39:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a way to really just mix it up. But I'm I'm a very casual gamer in the respect of I want to play the game and have fun. I do want to go through the challenge of the game, but I want to go beyond that to make it more challenging for myself. If I beat Eldering, good on me. Had a good time. I don't want to go back and be like, OK, I can only use my dance pad. I don't want to do that. Yeah, it would be impressive for me to do. And God bless the people who do. But
00:39:38
Speaker
I'm not a content creator. I'm not going to be streaming that for people to be like, holy shit. We literally have a podcast. You're saying you're not a content creator. We literally. But going back to the podcast, that's the reason you can't do that. We can't afford to spend time on challenge runs.
Exploring Palworld and Gaming Trends
00:39:54
Speaker
We need to be reviewing the next game all the time, constantly, without a year and a half break where we don't cover any games. Me looking at Jake, he's before my eyes.
00:40:08
Speaker
You blink, I'm gone. Jake lost the year of his life. What are you playing recently, if not these horror games? So easy answers, pal world. Been playing that with friends, although not like a ton. We basically like play when we're together. So, okay, qualifier. Over the weekend, I played a ton. I think I put like 24 hours in over Saturday and Sunday.
00:40:37
Speaker
Um, or something very close to it. Uh, but since then, like during the week, not as much. And we reset the save. Um, it's, it's interesting. Um, other than that, the old sand buys, um, hots and Starcraft and stuff like that. And then I bought, uh, another game, which I haven't launched yet, which is like, um, is it against the storm? I think is what it's called. I've heard that name. Sounds like a game.
00:41:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a rogue like city builder, I think is the way to describe it. Um, yes, it's against the storm because it was really, really cheap on steam. And I know I'm going to put some time on it sometime in it at some point, but pal world for the most part.
00:41:27
Speaker
I'll be honest, it it seems interesting, but not enough for me to like jump on the train, mainly because like I just came off of dicking around in Valheim for three days on somebody else's server. Yeah. And I was like, oh, we're we're kind of already slowed down on that. We're good. Yeah. So I got my survival kick. You got my survival jollies. Would you say that it is Pokemon with guns or more like Valheim with Pokemon?
00:41:55
Speaker
uh i mean the guns really aren't a big part of it that's more of a selling point and like art thing than anything else because like it could just be any ranged attack right but it's it's pokemon plus valheim to give you a like a non-answer that pretty much is what it is you do whatever um whether that's fighting capturing mons i'm just gonna call them mons they're pals in the game of course
00:42:22
Speaker
crafting, building, whatever, generally gets you experience, which unlocks like the option to put points to unlock tech.
00:42:32
Speaker
So you go from level one all the way up to 50, which is quite a lot for early access. And most of the guns and rocket launchers and nonsense stuff like that, or the high tier tech, the assembly line, you can ascend pals to work at. Those are high tier things that would take a significant amount of time to get there in the game.
00:42:53
Speaker
Um, so most of the gameplay is building up your base. You know, you could do some farming capture things, build out your team. They have the skill fruit, obviously, as it is Pokemon. Um, they have some dungeons, but that word evokes more interest than I think it deserves. In the case of this game, they're basically just caves with a boss at the end. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's not bad. Um, it would be a lot worse if you couldn't like ride.
00:43:23
Speaker
Pals around you can get like a mount or like a flying mount. Mm-hmm. That's really cool. I like that So I'm gonna play devil's advocate because I know that Twitter exists sure. So basically the two things that I've heard around this are One there's the obvious thing about
00:43:43
Speaker
There's this copyright question and whether or not they're going to get sued by nintendo who is notoriously very litigious Because some of their designs I think are very close But the other thing I have heard is a lot of people like hey fuck nintendo. Fuck nintendo. We're enjoying this game Arceus should have been closer to this right because like they really haven't changed their game design at all except for arceus was like a little bit open world, but
00:44:11
Speaker
It was, I guess, very shallow to what we have for other open world games. Right. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're both probably right to some extent.
00:44:23
Speaker
There's a lot of stuff at play, right? There's the discussion of, is this something that might push Pokemon in a better direction? I think the answer to that could be yes. But then there's also like, Game Freak doesn't usually make the best games.
00:44:42
Speaker
Like I, I, no, I will disclaim. I'm not like a huge Pokemon fan. I haven't played a lot of them, but when people say like RCS is not as good of an open world game as this, I fully believe it. Right. I mean, part of it is on Nintendo switch with whatever engine versus unreal for this. So this one like runs pretty smoothly, but, um, it's just.
00:45:08
Speaker
A lot of it comes from the history of this game developer, are they called pocket pals or no, no pocket tails, pocket tails is the name of the developer. They're in Japan and basically their shtick is ripping people off. Like, uh, their other announced game, I'm trying to find the picture to send it to you. I think I know. Is it a, uh, is it a Metroidvania? It's yes. It looks awfully like Hollow Knight. It looks amazingly like Hollow Knight, especially from, from the picture. Um,
00:45:39
Speaker
And that's kind of their thing. Prior to that, like the games that they released were like a Breath of the Wild clone, right? And they took some of that stuff and they put it in this game. I mean, not in the case of the Metroidvania, but like it has aspects of Breath of the Wild. It has a bunch of stuff that looks like it was lifted pretty much from Valheim, right?
00:46:02
Speaker
So from a this is an original thought perspective, the game has a lot of problems if you're looking for originality. But I mean, from a I'm a consumer, I want the best product.
00:46:20
Speaker
Maybe this is a step on the path to, um, game freak and the Pokemon company, like making a better open world game when they realize pal world is one of the top two ever most played games on steam. Yeah.
00:46:37
Speaker
Well, current or just top played in general? Like concurrent players. Okay. The other one I think is Counter Strike. Yeah. And it is the, for concurrent players, I think it was the highest paid game for concurrent players ever. Like the other thing was a free to play game. So it literally, you know, if it has a good week, you know, maybe this week, it could be the most played game on Steam ever by concurrent players.
00:47:08
Speaker
That's kind of insane. I mean, it's actually really saying a lot that this. I'll loosely use the term knockoff Pokemon for the time being. Yeah. Even though that might be a little bit incendiary, has done so well for itself being from a smaller studio. Mm hmm. Even if it is currently using a lot of other ideas from other places, that that amalgam is doing so fucking well. Yes.
00:47:38
Speaker
Because like the reviews on RC is like I'm sure people were excited for RC to come out. Mm hmm. But it became mixed immediately. Yeah. Immediately. Whereas. There was a big difference. Everything I see for Power World is like we're having fun with it. Now, there are other discussions around the other things we talked about, but a lot of what I'm seeing is people having fun. Yeah. So as an outsider who hasn't played the game, I just hear people are enjoying it. I'm like, cool. Good for you. Exactly. Yeah.
00:48:08
Speaker
And it's worth noting, like for RCS, the, uh, the reviewers were a lot more critical than the player base was. And some people took that specifically, like they took issue with that particularly because they're like, the reason the Pokemon franchise has not needed to get better is because the players will buy whatever. Right. Here's a slight improvement.
00:48:32
Speaker
It's an open world game. That's so awesome. I'm going to just like play the entire game with that novelty versus other players that are like, I've played open world games and this is a bad one. Right. So.
00:48:44
Speaker
We'll see. It's the legal situation is going to be fun to track to as an adult. I would I would have had no interest in this as a kid. But like Japan doesn't have any fair use policy at all. Like if like IP is IP there. And so a lot of people I mean.
00:49:07
Speaker
Pokemon Company didn't release a statement saying that they were looking into this game until within, I think, 24 hours of when we recorded this podcast. But they did release that statement. Another comparison is earlier this week.
00:49:23
Speaker
Uh, there was a mod, but just literally changed the pals into Pokemon that was taken down within 24 hours. Yes. So there's a lot of stuff at play here. And also both of these companies are in Japan, the Pokemon company and the company, the developed pocket. Yeah. Pocket trails. So I don't know what's going to happen.
00:49:45
Speaker
Like it's going to come down to is this infringement or not? And if it is just expect pocket trails to be nuked off the face of the earth. I don't know if I would jump to that. I mean, I guess it is not up to Nintendo for how much they pursue it. But I think there is some grounds that if we say, hey, there's some issue with these things, they might need to make modifications.
00:50:14
Speaker
But like to a degree, I don't think they can fully own all aspects. Yeah, that's going to be the question. The gray area at the legal question here is.
00:50:24
Speaker
I think for a rational observer, this game was a hundred percent inspired by Pokemon. Oh, inspired by 100%. Like even use some of the designs. I would argue. Yes. Um, the question's going to be, did they use AI to remix some of this stuff? Did they have animators come in and like have a picture of a Gardevoir up while they were designing their pal over here?
00:50:48
Speaker
Um, but they specifically did not use that illustration, like any part of that illustration copy pasted over. Yeah. Those are going to be the legal questions. And it might be the reason that Nintendo didn't action this. They didn't move on this earlier. Um, the CEO has said, uh, for, for, for pocket, um, pocket trails that, uh, there is no infringement, obviously. Cause that's what a CEO would say, regardless of weird stance to take. Uh-huh.
00:51:18
Speaker
But I don't know, we'll see. Because it does mean something regardless of what happens here, right? Like, well, three cases. One.
00:51:29
Speaker
They explicitly did infringe. Like it comes out in discovery or whatever the Japanese equivalent is, legal discovery, that they straight up like had assets. There's just models of Pokemon on like everyone's computers and they just have like home brewed game boys all over the place and all this nonsense. That's the least interesting outcome. In that case, pocket trails, goodbye. Right?
00:51:55
Speaker
the case two would be like they used it for inspiration but they didn't directly copy anything from the game but there's a lot of freaking inspiration right here right and if that lands on their side and it's just like yeah you could just like copy paste dead space almost but not actually just make your own dead space
00:52:19
Speaker
That's probably covered, right? That would be a crazy precedent to set. That would be, and I would personally hate that. Because I mean, when Minecraft popped off, I think it wasn't too long where we saw a lot of Minecraft clones pop up. Yes. But I would argue that a lot of those were, one, very shitty, and two, very distinct.
00:52:41
Speaker
I like this open world auto-generated thing where I can kind of collect resources and build things, very sandbox environment, but I think everybody wants to have their own spin out of the sea. Maybe mine will be the next iteration of this formula. Nobody really tried to copy, paste Minecraft.
00:53:04
Speaker
But they're like, hey, hitting stuff to destroy it, building stuff up. That was kind of like the core premise that stuck around with those. Even with Dark Souls clones. Again, clone is the loose term for this is a souls like was clearly inspired by Dark Souls. But there there's so many that don't even come close to being Dark Souls like.
00:53:29
Speaker
Lies of P, very distinctly Lies of P. It's very much its own thing. Now, was it based in that genre? 100%. Was Dark Souls the first to really do that? Kind of, yeah. But I don't think it gets into infringement of anything by any means.
00:53:46
Speaker
right yeah like if you don't steal the story and you don't steal the assets but you pretty much as far as the game feel and look and music and style and in this case kind of font for you know breath of the wild like everything looks like something else nintendo um
00:54:06
Speaker
But it's not, but maybe it's not completely. And, uh, it's an interesting question because usually like companies don't want to outright be so close to the original product. Right. Like if you showed this to somebody and you cropped out the guns, people could be like, Oh, what's the new Pokemon game? Right. Yeah. Legit. That's what it looks like. Um,
00:54:32
Speaker
The last outcome is it is inspired, but they win it, right? It's inspired by Pokemon, but pocket trails wins. And that's the one where it's like.
00:54:45
Speaker
Or was that case two? I can't remember. That was case two. That was case two. Okay. Case three is it's inspired by Pokemon, the Pokemon company and the Pokemon company wins. In which case, like that pushes the legal, uh, establishment a little bit more towards you got to make sure that your game's different than other people's games. Right. Like if it's inspired by another game, it's got to be visually different. All this other stuff.
00:55:14
Speaker
I'm knee jerky a little bit away from three as far as the desired outcome just because I know there are lots of smaller development teams who want to make games. People are very passionate about their industry and what they want to make and put out into the world. And I would hate to see like a small company or team get shut down because
00:55:37
Speaker
We have such a gray area of what actually counts as it. It's not defined to where somebody could say, this one thing is too similar. You're gone. Yes. Right. Like I wouldn't like us to get to that point. We could have a chilling effect, right? Where you're like, I think that this game is pretty different, but I see this other game that's sort of similar to what I have going on. Am I in danger?
00:55:59
Speaker
Yeah, and that's a weird place to be but if like the end result is we kind of hash out hey We either need a number of distinct things or if we actually set some ground rules to say this is or this isn't That would be nice. I think from both sides to say hey, here's what stuff you have to avoid. Okay. Yeah Yeah
00:56:25
Speaker
So it'll be interesting. Maybe it doesn't even, if it doesn't go to a legal case, which is also a valid possibility, right? The last thing the Pokemon company said was that they're looking into it. I think that's also big.
00:56:38
Speaker
That's really big. It means that, you know, um, people can make Pokemon like games, very, very like games. Um, and maybe start to encroach upon some of that ground, that, that holy ground that the Pokemon company has, uh, had a monopoly over for a really long time. So, um, we'll see.
00:57:01
Speaker
The only other thing I'll mention about the game is that the survival crafting component of it is actually pretty good. It has like a fair amount of tech things you unlock at every level. And it feels like there's always something you could be doing in the game. And the world is too big, like really, really big.
00:57:21
Speaker
For dedicated servers, you can have up to 32 players. And I was talking about it last night. I was like, I think that you could literally split into four groups of eight and like establish spaces across the map.
00:57:37
Speaker
And as long as you're being a little bit subtle about it, you don't build it on like a mountain top or something. There's a good chance you would not be able to find all the bases. You could have a PvP server where it took like actual days for people to find each other. I didn't realize it was that big from the map. It's really big.
00:57:58
Speaker
And I was like, I don't have the fastest mounts, but I was just exploring and stuff, checking out the biomes and it's a lot. So I'm enjoying it. Um, who knows what the ethics come out, right? If they're like, we murdered puppies to make this game. I'll be like, I'm against it. I don't like that. But otherwise, uh, it kind of, um,
00:58:27
Speaker
It has a little bit of that Valheim effect, I think, where it was just word of mouth had this massive explosion. And if you can land between major game releases, it's pretty good, apparently, to do that.
Influence of Twitch on Gaming
00:58:44
Speaker
So we'll see.
00:58:46
Speaker
Yeah, it is kind of crazy that this is the biggest talking point in the gaming sphere at the moment. Yeah. Because it's just, like you said, between major game releases, this is like the one thing that it's seemingly everybody's playing. And also, a lot of this stuff will always be kind of pioneered. I don't want to say pioneered by Twitch, but like signal boosted by Twitch. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, it's one of the things with Lethal Company, too, right? You see all these streamers playing it, and everybody else who is playing it.
00:59:17
Speaker
So it's in the zeitgeist. Yes. It's a good term for it. For sure. It's not often you get to use that word. So when you can, it's fun again. We use it more than less sophisticated podcasts, obviously.
00:59:33
Speaker
We're just gonna have an episode where we just use the word zeitgeist as much as possible. Everyone hates us. What have you been playing? That was my answer. Oh, we got there. Holy shit. I mean, passively the occasional Dota 2, the occasional lethal company. A lot of times I'll play games if people invite me, but
00:59:56
Speaker
I don't know if it's just stress being a tired person in their 30s or I don't know, but I haven't really had the drive to check out new games for a bit. Yeah, I still want to check out Alan Wake 2. But I was looking at some budgeting stuff and I just did some quick math on upcoming expenses.
01:00:19
Speaker
uh relating to a dog and that's already a grand it's already a grand right there um yeah yeah i was like oh okay so i'll probably chill on that for a bit i also want to get a tattoo still yeah which that's that's another grand if you get a good one you know i'm just i fucking hope i'm not spending a grand god damn another thousand dollars i would like to get another one the size of the halonite tattoo
01:00:47
Speaker
If for the for the audience that didn't weren't paying attention to the screen just then Dave showed his Hollow Knight. I forget if I posted it on Facebook one time after I promised I would. Probably. Probably. There's a good chance.
01:01:01
Speaker
People know what Hollow Knight looks like. And if they don't, they can just wait for the next pocket trail scam. And then they'll have a pretty good idea. I'm joking. My go-to joke for that is a silk song at home. So expect to hear that a couple more times.
01:01:19
Speaker
You also mentioned Alan Wake callback. Uh, he's being added as a survivor to dead by daylight. Really? Yeah. Uh, no killer though. A lot of times their chapter will have a killer and a survivor, right? Like, uh, uh, Leon and nemesis or something like that. The darkness? The darkness. Yes. They already have a character who is, who is the darkness kind of in quotes. Oh, it's the.
01:01:46
Speaker
Ah, crap. I can't remember his name. It's one of the originals. It didn't come from an IP. Okay. And it is a collection of, it's the dredge is what it's called. It's a collection of like bones and body parts and stuff like that. That's just like attached to this moving shadow, which is kind of a little creepy. Like one of them has like a horse head in there and stuff. And it's just,
01:02:13
Speaker
Pretty miserable, pretty rough. It's kill animation is it will like have like bone size, grab the person and then just pull them into itself, like just into shadow.
01:02:27
Speaker
It can also teleport between the lockers on the map. That's it's kind of like mechanic one of them And if a person is in that locker when it goes to like teleport to it Or they enter the locker trying to like hide or something while the dredge is there It'll just like grab them and then emerge and be carrying them. It's it's great Very cool, I'll send you a picture of it, but
01:02:52
Speaker
I'd say weirdly that is close to what I want to get from my tattoo. Well, I'll send you. We'll see if the if the tattoo can get any more inspiration with an actual depiction. But if not, that's fine, too. It looks very creepy. It's probably the closest thing to an actual scary thing in that game. But I would say if you guys have ideas for Dave's tattoo,
01:03:21
Speaker
You got to send those in. It's the only way. It's the only way it's democracy work pretty much. I think popular vote. It's going to be something dumb knowing the Internet. It's just going to be like boats and hoes or something like that. What's the pixel thing that they do on Twitch? Do you have a pixel map they do?
01:03:43
Speaker
Uh, oh, you talk about place on Reddit. Are you thinking of something else? Is it place on Reddit? I know that Reddit has place where like people could change one pixel every hour or something. Okay. I think different Twitch communities will interact with that and try and get like their own section of it. Yeah. But I thought that'd be funny to do as like a tattoo design. That would be funny.
01:04:04
Speaker
and impossible for a tattoo artist to do as you have three billion pixels. There were like subcultures. I don't spend as much time on Reddit, but back when place happened, either the first or second time, subcultures would be taken over little sections. And it was very funny to see like hentai trying to get some representation on the board. It was it was pretty crazy.
01:04:28
Speaker
That's always entertaining mainly to see the the actual picture instead of like the whole thing going on It was just a banner. They weren't trying to get banned or okay. My tattoos not less like this than I thought yes But it is very creepy looking and creepy to be chased by the dredge Or you guys can join the discussion on Facebook Facebook.com slash soapstone podcast and as always we'll see you in the next one Goodbye
01:05:28
Speaker
you