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Nicole Paton: Balancing Family, Work, and the Mountains to Worlds
106 Plays11 hours ago
Nicole Paton joins the show to talk about her journey from country Victoria to representing Australia at the Trail World Championships.
We cover how she discovered trail running through adventure and travel, the challenges of balancing elite performance with parenting and work, and the lessons she’s learned from injury and resilience along the way. It’s an honest look at what it takes to stay consistent and competitive in the sport while keeping life in balance.
Tune in to hear the full story.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Introduction to Nicole Patton's Journey
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the People's Shoots podcast. My name is James Sieber and today we welcome Nicole Patton to the show. Now this is one that in all honesty we were trying to get working before the world champs kicked off but unfortunately my schedule and her travel just couldn't quite work out.
00:00:33
Speaker
As you'll come to find though, I'm really glad that this did wait until after the Welsh Jams because Nicole ended up having an incredible run finishing 55th in the long trail and the first Australian.
00:00:44
Speaker
This comes as a long list of incredible results that Nicole has had. She had sixth UTA this year, a first at KMR 66K and a whole bunch which we do also get into.
00:00:56
Speaker
Nicole, as you just heard, is one of Australia's top trail runners, but there's so many more layers than just
Balancing Motherhood and Running
00:01:01
Speaker
that. And in today's episode, we really dig into how you balance that mum, employment and training as an elite, but also putting a really long term focus on your goals to try and make them happen.
00:01:15
Speaker
There's a lot of balance, there's compromise, there's sacrifice, there's a lot of support from a partner in this journey and I think it's something that's really going to resonate with a lot of people listening. This is a really honest, grounded conversation about resilience, self-belief and why running sometimes needs to sit right alongside the rest of life, not underneath it and why it's okay is to prioritize your own journey.
00:01:35
Speaker
probably tell from this intro, I really loved this conversation with Nicole and I came away feeling very inspired about what and the way that she approached this whole block over the last two years to build into this and I hope it can do the same for some of you who are trying to achieve your goals, whether that is the national team or that is making it to a start line or a finish line of your choosing.
Discovering Running Talent
00:01:56
Speaker
With that, let's get into the episode with Nicole. Nicole, welcome to the podcast and welcome back to the country. How are you going today? I'm really well. Thank you, James. Thank you so much for having me on here. I've been listening for a long time, so I'm really happy to be here.
00:02:12
Speaker
I really appreciate it. It's one that we tried to, full disclosure, of everyone listening, organize it beforehand, but a combination of travel and life stuff on my end getting in the way is why we didn't get the chance to do this as a pre-Worlds chat like we did with a lot of the rest of the team. But as we will get to this has worked out very much in our favor because we get to hear the recap of how your day went.
00:02:33
Speaker
But I'm glad that we have managed to get this chance to sit down regardless.
00:02:41
Speaker
Okay, so but first place I wanted to kind of start off, we'll will'll come to Worlds and that experience. I really do want to give it the time and the space to dive deep into it. But going back through your story,
00:02:55
Speaker
looking at all your results, you've been in the sport for quite a while and on a um group chat that we're on also found out that you went to the same school as my wife growing up in Wangaratta, which was quite fascinating. So stop me back then. What was it like growing up in country Victoria and where did running really fit into your life?
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, sure. i I did grow up, um, on a farm sort of outside Benalla. Um, And very active outdoor lifestyle, always, you know, just playing outdoors, building huts and tree houses and riding motorbikes and horses and all of those things.
00:03:33
Speaker
um My parents also were very much into camping and hiking, day hikes usually, but you know going out in the great outdoors, even beyond our farm, we would go camping and hiking and that type of thing. So ah was sort of very much and a very outdoorsy child um and that that definitely created my love for spending time outdoors.
00:03:53
Speaker
um I didn't have any experience with running until my first school cross country. um where we were to run around the Lake Benalla and I think it might have been 3k might have been 2k I'm not sure and um and i just started running and then I was sort of like where are all the other kids and so that was a bit funny so I just discovered I had some kind of natural talent for running.
00:04:17
Speaker
have an identical twin so I have a twin sister and she was also quite good at running um So she and I were both running in school, but I just had the edge just slightly in school.
00:04:29
Speaker
um So, yeah, I did all cross country throughout school and track in them. Usually, oh, I did all of the events pretty much, but excelled more in the 800, 1500 kind of space on the track Uh, so I did that, but only at school. I never did little little athletics and I never ran outside of school, outside
Return to Running and First Trail Race
00:04:49
Speaker
of school. My sports were always, uh, gymnastics and horse riding. That's what consumed my evenings and weekends.
00:04:56
Speaker
Um, so when I finished school, I pretty much stopped running. So I went to uni and, um, started, you know, doing other sports. I got into my snowboarding, which I still do now.
00:05:07
Speaker
And yeah, in that, that time, I just didn't run at all in my early twenties or late teens, early twenties. Um, It just wasn't something that I was doing. um I came back to it in my sort of mid-20s when, you know, a few friends had started doing half marathons or something and that sort of took my interest. i was like, oh, that's a long way. Maybe, you know, I used to run. Maybe I should do a half marathon or something.
00:05:29
Speaker
And so the usual sort of recreational running, I did a heart couple of halves and I did do one full marathon, but I still wasn't, you know, i weren in any way competitive. It was very much just a ah recreational thing.
00:05:41
Speaker
And then, so it wasn't actually until, um, until I was on my honeymoon in 2015 with my husband and we were trekking to a base camp in Nepal that I met some mountain runners in Nepal and I, they, you know, had all the gear and they were telling me how there was a race from Lukla to, um from base camp to Lukla, or I should say it's down.
00:06:04
Speaker
And, um, And i was just intrigued. I was like, oh, you can run all that way in the mountains. And i you know, I was quite a strong hiker and I knew I used to run. So i was really quite fascinated by this concept of running in the mountains, especially in the Himalayas.
00:06:21
Speaker
And so, yeah, I pretty much came back to Australia after that trip and I actually went into Borgal of Equipment who sponsor me now. So very nice that they do that. And I bought my first pair of trail runners and I entered the Razorback, the Razorback run at Mount Hotham.
00:06:37
Speaker
Given I'd, cause that was my home mountain from snowboarding. and Yeah. And given I had ah background in snowboarding, I didn't have any lightweight running gear. I ran with a back country snowboarding pack and like ski pants and a ski jacket.
00:06:51
Speaker
Cause that's all I had.
Influence of Family on Running
00:06:53
Speaker
So I met all the mandatory gay requirements in a very heavy fashion. um Yeah, so that was, like I came second in that race and I was like, oh, okay, maybe I should get some gear.
00:07:08
Speaker
So that was how I got into the mountain running. It was very much from the mountain side, from the like hiking and snowboarding as opposed to like my original sort of track side.
00:07:20
Speaker
I can see that from looking through even just your, your Instagram on, on all the photos, everything's about the views, the sunrise of the sunsets, the adventure. I can see that's very much still like that's the passion.
00:07:31
Speaker
And then running seems to be the means to get out there most of the time. Although like you say, there's a lot of back country stuff in there as well. Coming back, growing up with a twin, to me, I'm only child, so I have the furthest thing from that.
00:07:44
Speaker
So it's fascinating for me. What was that like? Um, Well, I don't know any different, but I think it was great. I always had my best friend everywhere all the time. There's always someone to do every adventure with, um someone with similar interests and, you know, the same age and the same physical capabilities and all of those things. There was always someone...
00:08:06
Speaker
you'd have a harebrained idea for what adventure you were going to do next. And there was always someone that was like, yeah, let's do it kind of thing. So that was really great. um Yeah. Always have someone in your corner. ah And now my sister doesn't run so much. um She was very busy with her work and she's had some chronic injuries, but she's definitely still a great supporter. And she does get out there occasionally and do a 10 K or a half marathon in the trails.
00:08:30
Speaker
Oh, that's wonderful. And the, I know from Siobhan growing up in that area for her horse riding was a massive thing and and incredibly time consuming as well. But do you kind of, ah at what point did you kind of go and forego the horse riding and and the gymnastics like did the did that, was or is it still part of your life in any way? Well, the gymnastics.
00:08:54
Speaker
I just wasn't very good at, I was got way too tall for that and i'm I'm much too tall to be a gymnast and I was never going, you know, that's a very young person's sport. So that just went but you know when I was 17, 18.
00:09:04
Speaker
um And it was just the same that I moved to Melbourne to go to university. i kept I did keep my horse at my parents' farm, but I just found I wasn't able to go back and give her the attention that she needed. i was, you know, other things were interesting me. So I wasn't wanting to go back and spend time horse riding every weekend.
00:09:24
Speaker
So in the end, it wasn't fair on the horse. So you know i so I sold her to a neighbor and yeah, moved on from that and haven't really gone back to horse riding ever since.
00:09:35
Speaker
It is, yeah, it's a sport you really have to be all in on and it's very difficult if you're not living on a property with horses. So much more difficult to pursue. yeah nice. and Very understandable because you you you live in Melbourne still?
00:09:49
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, I live in Melbourne, although I do spend a very a lot of time at Mount Hotham. So I manage a ski lodge up there and spend a great deal of time there at Mount Hotham as well.
00:10:02
Speaker
Okay. I was wondering, looking at some of your posts from, um i think whilst you were in Chamonix, you said that you were still working whilst you were away. and I think, was it is it Leighton Lodge? Is that the name of it?
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. So that's just a side job for me. i I have a, my main job is as a web designer and developer. um I run my own business. I work freelance doing that. And then I managed the ski lodge as sort of as just an extra thing I do on the side.
00:10:28
Speaker
So I've always got a bunch of different things that I have to keep all in the air. But luckily it's all flexible remote kind of work. So that's great for my lifestyle. Okay.
00:10:39
Speaker
Right. There's a lot of moving things when you add in then obviously see a mum as well, training at this level and all the time over there. do Is it hard for you to stay like focused on the thing that you're doing?
00:10:53
Speaker
um I don't find it hard to stay focused on running at all um now. um it's It's kind of consumed my life. um It's like sort of become like, you know, the number one priority ah that I move other things around. Now, obviously, yeah overall, my family must be the number one priority, but, you know, you can move them around even to a point to fit in the big important runs and all of that type of thing.
00:11:16
Speaker
So, yeah, it's become such an important part of my life that I just make it happen. It is at the expense of my work and that then causes some financial stress.
00:11:27
Speaker
um But I'm choosing but because I'm not a young athlete, I'm choosing to prioritise running for the next couple of years while I can still be competitive and then maybe you'll have to take a back seat I'll have to play catch up on the work front.
Balancing Family, Work, and Elite Running
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I find that really yeah interesting. And i think speaking to having a family, like when you're, let's say you're early 20s and you make a decision to pursue running, we've seen some some really good results from at the Wells, from some younger athletes, um like Alec Franski, I think he's 15 or 16, but had an incredible run.
00:12:03
Speaker
For someone like him going through, getting bit older, it's easy to go, cool, I'm going to put some years aside and do this, but it feels like a very different consideration and scenario when you do, you have a husband, you have a job or two jobs, you have kids that deliberate decision to, to focus on your running and yourself within the family environment and everything else. Like how, how have you managed to structure that and kind of come to that place?
00:12:31
Speaker
I guess you have to be a little bit selfish. You do have to realize that it's important to do the things for yourself. Um, so i I'm very passionate about those things. And so I just try to make time.
00:12:46
Speaker
I'm lucky that my husband is very, very supportive. he certainly is very supportive of me to pursuing the running and therefore, you know, pitches in whenever he can help out with the kids.
00:12:58
Speaker
The problem there is that he is an intensive care paramedic and a shift worker, So he works extremely long hours, demanding hours and unsociable hours, which make everything much more challenging um because we have no family routine.
00:13:15
Speaker
ah hum There's no routine. So that's why I have to work in a very flexible nature. I think, yeah, I've had to make the decision with my husband together that I will work less.
00:13:27
Speaker
So I don't not working full time hours, just So if anyone else out there that's listening to this feels like they can't do it all because, you know, they've got a full-time job and kids and stuff, full transparency. I'm not working full-time hours.
00:13:39
Speaker
um I am working more flexible hours as well. So I might be working in the evening or on weekends. And basically I put it when I was away for six weeks in Europe just recently that I – work all the time, but I also kind of never work.
00:13:56
Speaker
So in that, like, I work a little bit all the time, I can never have a holiday of like three weeks where I'm not working at all. But I also don't on a day to day, even in Melbourne, I do take time out of the workday to train. So I never have that, like, demanding, you know, nine to five, five days a week pressure on me.
00:14:18
Speaker
Knowing that you have set up your life like this to but essentially best support your running, does that change how you view your running at all? um To be honest, I did not set ah the life up like this originally to best of support my running. I did start the the web development business and all of that freelance work prior to getting back into running.
00:14:38
Speaker
That was just more a lifestyle choice because I enjoyed spending a lot of time snowboarding and hiking and all the other things that I love. um It was more just to create more flexibility in my life. And... and that just meant it could be a debt that flexibility could be adapted to running. And we had to take, I was working a lot closer to full-time hours prior to kids and prior to running in the business, like just had a bit more flexibility with those hours.
00:15:01
Speaker
um And then now it's, yeah we've had to take, you can't manufacture time. So we've had to take time with the kids and the running, both increasing in time demands. The time had to come from somewhere.
00:15:14
Speaker
And I'm not a person who can not sleep. i'm and I refuse to compromise sleep. It's compromising your health and your performance. And so ah yeah, I will not compromise my sleep. So it had to come from somewhere and the time i ended up taking it was from my work time. Yeah.
00:15:32
Speaker
I'm glad to hear say not compromising sleep. It kind of defeats the whole whole purpose of it if you are. Yes. Looking back at your results, and we've already spoken about your kids, to me, there's kind of like two halves of your running career so far, as you say. It's that 2016 to 2019 period and then 22 to now.
00:15:52
Speaker
to to now and And I know there were a few small things in there post postpartum, um after you at your first child, but... Whenever I'm speaking to to moms, I find it that the RAM pre and post kids, I find it interesting to think, to see how they think about running differently now, even just in in that time capacity and then and that quote unquote selfishness that you have to take yourself out, out although i don't see it as selfishness, um but also in how you think about your body and your training in itself.
00:16:19
Speaker
Do you like, do you have any remarks about yeah that pre to post kids era in running? Sure. Well, with my first child, it was it was a fairly smooth sort of seamless thing because I did continue to run through the pregnancy, not competitively. I did take a step back, but I did continue to run quite a lot and do some smaller races and everything during the pregnancy.
00:16:41
Speaker
And then I did was able to to return to running and even racing reasonably quickly after um after I had my first child. And so i felt like that wasn't such a big...
00:16:54
Speaker
you know, a big interruption to my life. Um, that as then, when, then it was COVID and the second child and everything all sort of happened and it was all, uh, yeah, everything was happening there. And so that was a ah bigger interruption, I suppose.
00:17:11
Speaker
Um, and I took, my body took longer to recover from the second child as well. So yeah. yeah it was It was definitely ah more de more challenging to come back after the second child. And i'm I'm sure every pregnancy and every mother and every, it's all case by case. So, you know, some people will have a harder time after the first child or whatever.
00:17:31
Speaker
But that's just the way it went with me. And it was both the pregnancy and also the um the various ah effects with COVID and other things going on in the world as well. Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
that there weren't any races sort of between my two kids. There was a bit of a gap. Yeah, I guess that there's ever a place to um to have kids if you're worried about the the running side
Running Post-Children: Challenges and Strategies
00:17:55
Speaker
of it. It's a good time to have it ah potentially, but do you think any differently about how you train now versus how you were running beforehand?
00:18:03
Speaker
um No, not really. i I would venture to say I actually train more consistently now than did prior to having the kids.
00:18:14
Speaker
Um, I can't really say why that is. I think it's just more focused, um, on, you know, doing well and, and getting the results and the, you know, completing the races I want to complete.
00:18:26
Speaker
Um. Before I had the kids, I i think raced way too much. I mean, some people will still say I raced too much now. That's matter of personal opinion. um i wait I definitely raced too much before I had the kids.
00:18:39
Speaker
um I was like, because I had nothing else you know to do, essentially. It was all free time. I could race you know every weekend, every second weekend, whatever was going on. And then the person who really enjoys to race, not so much for the competitive side. I just enjoy going to the events and enjoy participating and and all of those things. So I was racing really an awful lot in like 2016, 2017 before I had the kids.
00:19:05
Speaker
um So I've definitely changed that. I've definitely taken a step back from now I will definitely be choosing key like a and B races and focusing training on those races um and then therefore focusing a lot more attention on training because i was racing so much back then that there wasn't time to do proper training blocks yeah yeah okay were were you getting injured at all back then no miraculously i did not get injured at all i think i was i was ah probably very lucky i'm not sure but i yeah i was not injured at all
00:19:41
Speaker
um and at any time back then. I've been more injured recently since you know since my second child. I think that's just an age factor.
00:19:51
Speaker
Well, that's what I'm putting it down to. Sure. So the the the you saying that you raced too much is more the fact that you felt like you never gave yourself the time to train and to grow as an athlete because you were just constantly going bang, bang, bang.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's absolutely right. That's what I was like in 2016, 2017.
00:20:10
Speaker
okay now it is certainly something that when i look back at your results like there is a lot on there but as you say every person has a different different reason for coming in our bodies respond differently to how we do events and stuff and some people love to put that one two or three key races across a year and some people use races to build up or just for fun etc so it's Yeah, we can keep our our like opinions of whether someone races too much or not think to ourselves a bit more.
00:20:38
Speaker
It's my personal view, that one. um And then coming more more recently, there's a few races that i'm going to i want to kind of chat about, about your experiences. But is there anything to you that really stands out before 2025 as particular experiences that you look back fondly on, whether it's just a great environment or a great performance or anything like that?
00:21:02
Speaker
um Yeah, before 2025, the experiences would have been um when I ran ccc so in twenty they I ran CCC in 2019 and that was at seven and a half months postpartum after having my daughter. That was before UTMB had the pregnancy deferral options.
00:21:25
Speaker
So i had qualified for that in 2017. ah um with it was a ah point space. The system was a little different back then. had qualified for that with my racing in 2017 and I basically had to go in or forfeit it.
00:21:43
Speaker
And I did not know at that time that COVID was about to start um also, but I ive just wanted to go and experience that because I was planning to have a second child and i had gained those qualification points before I even had the first child. So I genuinely believe that I would never qualify again for UTMB, not and as an elite entrant anyway, and that like it was my one chance to go. So i was wildly underprepared of being seven months postpartum.
00:22:12
Speaker
was... it was probably the hardest thing i've ever done in my life. And I was breastfeeding my daughter at the aid stations and, um, and I, I was in tears at the 55 K at Champaic Slack because I just couldn't face the fact there was three more big climbs and I was just so done.
00:22:31
Speaker
um but I did it. I made it through. i i finished the time was nothing impressive at all. Um, but I did finish and so that was a really special thing to do.
00:22:45
Speaker
And that's why I guess I'm more proud of my achievements now that I've since qualified for CCC twice more and I had elected not to run this year to choose to do Worlds. So I was in that privileged position where I even had the choice.
00:22:59
Speaker
um So that, given I thought back in 2019 I would never qualify again, makes it quite special. Yeah, it's something that I think is a, I'm glad it's a relic of the sport, the lack of pregnancy deferral options, but I can't imagine going through that process in that time, essentially pushing your body probably towards something it is not fully ready to do yet.
00:23:23
Speaker
It must've been really, really challenging physically and mentally. You talk like a bit more about what it was like to try come back postpartum to get yourself to that start line. Yeah, well, I think it was just, I didn't have the time to train, to put in the training that running CCC was.
00:23:42
Speaker
deserves or requires. um So I just didn't have the time to put in that training um at all. So I was still breastfeeding. but Both my children were exclusively breastfed. So they the first six months is you can't leave the child for more than like three hours or whatever.
00:24:00
Speaker
So you can't really do those long runs. Like you just can't get that in, especially because I don't live right near trails. You know, three hours would have to include driving time and all of that. And it's just,
00:24:11
Speaker
It was just impossible to get those those long runs in. My daughter, the first child, she wouldn't take the bottle. So, yeah, we were pretty much, i was pretty much struggling to get the training in to prepare for that.
00:24:25
Speaker
um I think I did do one race as a preparation where I must have taken a longer stint out because I did run the very long run, um which was a much longer race.
00:24:36
Speaker
That was literally my preparation. Yeah. That was my preparation for CCC was running very long run three weeks before I think. And it's it's a very different like course profile. It's very flat and fast, very long run.
00:24:48
Speaker
So yeah, I um um was wildly underprepared and I do not recommend that anybody to anybody. do you do you remember what was going through your head on the start line of CCC?
00:25:01
Speaker
Oh, I was just, I was thrilled to be there. I was very happy to be there. I stood right at the back of the, elite starting Corral because, you know, I was not on the level to be running out fast with those girls.
00:25:13
Speaker
um But I was still like very, so excited to be in Chamonix, so excited to run that race. It was beautiful. It was a beautiful
International Racing Experiences
00:25:20
Speaker
day. We had great weather. So I actually really loved the experience.
00:25:24
Speaker
um It just got really hard in the back half because I was so underprepared. Yeah. Okay.
00:25:32
Speaker
Another one that kind of, uh, or two actually that stood 2023, you went to taai Taiwan. that correct? yes Yeah. yeah how it It looks like that came about because of a local event. Was it the trails plus series?
00:25:48
Speaker
Yeah. So trails plus, um, like trails plus run a whole bunch of mountain events, sort of mostly close to to Melbourne. And then there's, they do have Bogom to Hotham. And there's such great like community events are really great for people getting into trail running. They're not as expensive as like, you know, some of the other big bigger events.
00:26:07
Speaker
So they're really great. I used to run a lot of trails rep plus events when I used to race, some would say far too often. And I, yeah, I,
00:26:18
Speaker
I guess I write ran a lot at Trails Plus, which was a really great experience and i really solidified my love for the sport. um So Trails Plus has a great relationship with the, I think it's with, that they have an association with the Chinese Taipei Running Association there where they're sending, they send and a male and a female, we usually male and female, two athletes anyway, um each year.
00:26:41
Speaker
And they, um, I was lucky enough to be selected first because I'd done many trails plus events and done well at those. Um, and bright new that, you know, i was a good person for the role, I suppose.
00:26:55
Speaker
So I was, yeah, really thrilled to be selected to go over to Taiwan for that race. Um, yeah, it was a really incredible experience. And it looks like you did pretty well there coming second.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, it was, I would say the course didn't suit me 100%. I'm sure we'll come to this when we talk about worlds, but I am more of a mountain runner and this was a far more runnable hundred um it was, yeah, it was definitely a runnable course.
00:27:23
Speaker
And, um but yeah, I still was, was happy with how it went. Also it was, you know more hot and humid, which is not the environment I train in. um Especially because I'm usually, I find I go overseas to these races in more like September time and I've been at Mount Hotham the whole winter, so that doesn't help.
00:27:40
Speaker
um But yeah, I was really happy with how I, performed in the race anyway, I suppose, despite it not being to my strengths. um Yeah, it it panned out really well in the end. So I can run when I need to and, by you know, when it's not a hiking race, I can run. Yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker
oh okay clearly even last last year second at surf coast and was it great ocean trail ultra as well like they're not we're not talking about hilly events here is sort of two or three thousand meters and coming second and first so it's can clearly run okay as well but it's do you feel like having that international event experience is helpful when it does come to events like worlds or sky running worlds as well yeah absolutely i've sort of done enough of those international events now. I've worked out, you know, what works and what you need to do and, um you know, how to make the best of it.
00:28:38
Speaker
It is quite challenging when you have to fly over like a week before the event or even less. some In some cases, the Taiwan one, we went even closer to the event um just because of like my family pressures. I don't offer always have time to go for a long time.
00:28:53
Speaker
um So it can be quite challenging when you have to fly over and then adjust the jet lag and try not to get sick on the plane and all of those things yeah like in the week before the event. preferred what I did this time, which was to go earlier.
00:29:10
Speaker
But yeah, I guess I've now raced overseas quite a number of times. And so I'm getting used to it and what I need to do and and yeah, how to deal with it, you know preparing and the travel and adjusting to the jet lag and all of that in the best way possible.
00:29:27
Speaker
Definitely. And I've, I've personally found the cultural differences as well can be massive, whether it's as simple as trying to source the right food for yourself or just getting used to being in and a different country and a completely different culture, especially somewhere like Taiwan. And then the other one I wanted to talk about was the Manaslu stage race that you did in in Nepal as well, which that one, you also throw in 4,000 meters of altitude but by the sounds of each day.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yes, that was um quite an experience, and the Manasui race, on one I would highly recommend to anyone. it was if You do not have to be you know an elite runner or even a highly competitive runner to do that. There were people of all levels.
00:30:05
Speaker
um Yeah, that was a really great experience. With the cultural thing and the food and all of that, I find you know I love immersing myself in different cultures. That's all just part of the great experience.
00:30:19
Speaker
The food, I am not like, I don't follow a set diet or anything. I'm ah a regular sort of omnivore. um You know, I have some preferences around, um you know, not eating too much um high fructose food like onion. and But other than that, it's um yeah, I'm i'm fairly easygoing when it comes to food. So I can be adaptable when like at the Taiwan race, they give you a boiled egg for breakfast and that's all you get for breakfast. something oh wow yeah I did actually take my own oats over there but you know just different things like that um I can be adaptable to eat whatever food we're sort of given um that's that's you know something that goes in my favor I suppose for racing overseas however the Manasue race I did deal with some stomach upsets I wasn't sick thankfully did not get gastro food poisoning or anything but I was
00:31:11
Speaker
running with an upset stomach because of the different food, very different food. And as I mentioned, and onion, not my favorite thing and there's onion in everything. um So yeah, I mean, I'll eat it if I have to, but it's yeah. So I was dealing with some stomach upsets for the Manaslu race, but it didn't completely derail my race. So luckily there just, you know, there were a few unplanned toilet breaks. Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
I'd like to take me through a bit, actually, like going through the pictures and the videos that you took from that event. And like you, one thing I really want to commend you for is like the openness that you put on Instagram and social media.
00:31:47
Speaker
Like I think it's doing, doing this, has been interesting. The people like Ben Burge is a great example, somebody else that's really open, puts a lot out there. And as you know, sometimes of as well, to a degree, it's playing the game, but it is great for me to have a look at and and to to go through. So we kind of get a really experience and and feel like I've kind of gone with that journey to some degree with you. But it, ah well, I guess first, how did that Manuslu event come onto your radar and come about? And then can you take me through like some of the highlights of it?
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So the Manus Lou event was quite of interesting story how I came to want to do that. So I was heavily pregnant well into the 30 weeks, sitting on my couch in 2021 during probably about the 10th lockdown in Melbourne. God knows what it was. It wasn't it wasn't great.
00:32:34
Speaker
um We were in 2021 and I was, you know, sitting on the couch, super pregnant, unable to move pretty much and scrolling through YouTube. And I saw a video for that Manus Lou trail race and it had...
00:32:46
Speaker
I think it was Maj Backhausen and some other people had run it. And I just watched a video of the race and I was like, oh, that looks amazing. And I'd always wanted to go back and race in Nepal um since since I initially was inspired to start mountain running from Nepal.
00:33:03
Speaker
and So I pretty much you know i showed the video to my husband and I said, look at this, this looks amazing. We've got to do this one day. Obviously one day was not in the near future because I was about to have our second child And um yeah, wasn't we weren't quite sure when we would fit it in.
00:33:20
Speaker
And then we'd sort of kept on our radar, looked when it was and everything. And then as it turned out, the dates, my my son who was born thereafter, shortly thereafter, his birthday was in the middle of the Manusloot trail race.
00:33:33
Speaker
So we were never going to be able to do it pretty much. yeah So we sort of had a chat to the grandparents and and we said, maybe we should do it sooner rather than later. So we weren't missing his birthday. I mean, we were missing his birthday. We could, he wouldn't know. Um, so yeah, we, we did miss his third birthday.
00:33:53
Speaker
Um, but he was not aware of that. We celebrated it before we went. Yeah. Sorry. I don't know about you, but I definitely cannot remember my third birthday. Yeah. So, well, I did, I do actually remember my third birthday party. So I did want to, um,
00:34:07
Speaker
I did want to make sure we did something, you had a cake and everything, but I certainly was not aware of the date. So that's right. That was the, that was the plan with that one. And I know it's something I've spoken to some, a lot of the other moms, um, like SJ and Kelly and stuff. It's something you do have to deal with as a, as a parent that oftentimes the big races, the big goal races you want to do cause you to miss your children's birthdays.
00:34:31
Speaker
Um, And that's a really hard thing to do. um You've got to make sure you're not you know impacting the children negatively. And um yeah, it's just a hard thing as a parent to do So that one that's probably one of the biggest challenges that okay yeah feel like faced as a parent is when you miss the special occasions. um I went to race and race in New Zealand, the wild, and ah I booked it.
00:34:56
Speaker
and arranged to do that before my daughter's ballet school told us the date of her ballet concert. And then it was her ballet concert while I was there. And that was another really hard one to miss my daughter's ballet concert.
00:35:07
Speaker
Um, while it was very important to her, her ballet concert when she was four years old and it's difficult to miss those big events. the When you look back at them now, like, do you,
00:35:22
Speaker
but I don't don' mean if the science to sound wrong. like do Do you always look back and think, okay, even though it would have been great to have been there, I still made the right decision to go and do said event. Yeah, no, I've not regretted any of them.
00:35:33
Speaker
um Yeah, I've certainly just tried to be at as many of the important milestones and events for the kids as I can be, but I've not regretted anything yet. I'm not sure if maybe maybe when I'm older I might, maybe when the kids have flown the coop, I might look back and be like, oh, maybe I should have dedicated.
00:35:50
Speaker
It's something I do grapple with myself, wondering if maybe, you know, when they're 25 and they don't want to speak to me, um i might be like, oh, I wish I went to that ballet concert. but It's so hard to know right now.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah. yeah It's something as as a non-parent that I think about in the sense of, I know as a coach that we have to, there's always trade-offs. Every decision you make, even before you have kids, there's always trade-offs to ah to any decision. And if you always frame everything as in a selfish environment, you're never going to make a decision that is for yourself and kind of puts your own personal happiness and pursuits of fitness and health first.
00:36:27
Speaker
But it's easy to say that when you're not in the scenario. And so I'm yeah curious if if if that ever plays out, but it sounds like, yes, there's that thought process there, but you still are happy with the putting yourself first at points.
00:36:42
Speaker
So far, as I said, I do i do have the thought in my mind of will I regret it later, but so far I've not regretted it. Yeah. it's When you speak to other mums about this, is is that pretty much the the consensus, similar sort of thoughts?
00:36:58
Speaker
I mean, I'm talking to other moms that are competing at a fairly high level, like Trish and Kelly and SJ and and that type of thing. I'm sure different moms have different priorities depending where they're running fits into their lives.
00:37:12
Speaker
um So yeah, it does seem to be similar wavelengths when I talk to those other really highly competitive moms. Yeah. They have him similar thoughts that you unfortunately do have to sometimes miss the important things.
00:37:27
Speaker
Do feel like it changes at all how you show up with your kids when you are around? Like, do you enjoy that time or or save that time more or anything?
00:37:40
Speaker
That's a hard question because I've just kind of been doing this the whole time
Preparation for World Championships
00:37:43
Speaker
I've had the kids. So, yeah I mean, definitely when I've been away and I return, then you certainly enjoy the time with the kids in you know in those first little you know returning days or weeks.
00:37:54
Speaker
You definitely enjoy the time with the kids a lot more. um but I mean, that's the same with anyone that's in your life. If you've been away from them and you, you know, come back or whatever. that you'll sort of savor that time a little more.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah. yeah cause Yeah. i It's a ah thought process, especially because SJ is a close friend of of of mine. um I kind of see her kids and her kids are incredible. And I kind of just think I like how that whole thought process must go for different people and and different environments. So thank you for entertaining those those questions.
00:38:25
Speaker
um Speaking of worlds now, something that, struck me is that this seems to have been an incredibly deliberate build-up since the last time you represented australia at innsbruck um and in in the interim time you also represented at the the sky running world champs as well i find that like i really like to read that and to hear that that it's been okay i've i wanted to get back to this point and i've deliberately chosen these races to get me to here So going through that process, did yeah how have you found like having that really deliberate long-term approach?
00:39:04
Speaker
Well, in some ways it was good to maintain focus and help with decision-making. In other ways, it was quite stressful. What if I didn't pull it off? um Now that I've done it, I pulled it off. it have ah You know, it all seems really wonderful, but there were definitely – a lot of sleepless nights. um We might need to touch on here that I will i was actually injured um in the lead up to the Worlds. had a bone stress in my femur, which actually had come about due after following the Kanani race, but I had not given it the respect it deserved and had put kept training through through it to run UTA.
00:39:50
Speaker
um And yeah, I didn't have a scan on that leg that was hurting essentially since Kanani until I, after I ran a hundred k UTA, um then I went to run again six, of seven days after UTA and I just could not run. It was just agonizing pain.
00:40:12
Speaker
and prior to that had been pain I could tolerate. And then this was like, you know, no, there's something wrong. And so then i then I went to see my physio and we got the m MRI and it came back with bone stress in the femur.
00:40:25
Speaker
And that was very stressful because I had worked so hard to get selected on this team. I'd just been told I'd been selected on the team for world champs. And then I was like, well, this is not good.
00:40:37
Speaker
So there was a lot of stress and a lot of sleepless nights in there. at that point in time. Wow. Okay. Well, let's stay with that. what What did that recovery process look like for you to get? Because as as we've alluded to, like you came first Australia and had a, from our side watching, seemingly a great day at World's. So it's all come together.
00:41:00
Speaker
But that's, as someone that currently has one of them, it's not an easy process to get to a start line like that in that timeframe. No, it wasn't easy. um So I was...
00:41:12
Speaker
Thankfully, it was not diagnosed as a full-blown fracture. um it It was diagnosed as bone stress. So I was told to to rest it probably for two more weeks. I'd already done one week post-UTA.
00:41:25
Speaker
I was told to rest it for two more weeks and then see what I could tolerate with pain, um pain-wise. knowing This was knowing that I had the worlds ahead of me and that that has was my major goal and that we would put everything into making that.
00:41:41
Speaker
you possibly would have taken a longer rest if you didn't have such a pressing goal. I'm not recommending everybody take such a short sort of timeframe. the problem was that then every time I started to do run and by a run, it would be a short walk run.
00:41:57
Speaker
um i was still getting pain. And so that was became challenging. So I was doing cross training every day. I was still training six days a week. I was just, um I started biking, but then,
00:42:11
Speaker
my pelvis started hurting, biking, all sorts of other things were going wrong. So we had all sorts. Then I couldn't, I'm like, oh my gosh, what can I do? You know, um I'm not a swimmer. I've never been a swimmer. Swimming is not my thing.
00:42:25
Speaker
So it was, um it was challenging trying to look at how I was going to stay fit enough to, you know, represent Australia at Worlds. when I couldn't run and then apparently couldn't bike.
00:42:38
Speaker
And i was like, this is difficult. um So I generally do do a lot of cross training. So I continued to do my HIIT classes. I just wasn't doing any jumping. I continued to do what I could in that sense. And um and I started when when I could pain-free, I started doing treadmill hiking and stair climbing um sort of later on. then...
00:43:00
Speaker
and then Eventually I was still getting some pain running when I was trying to, every time I would try to do like a return to run, I was getting some pain running. And eventually then I was seeing, um Alice McNamara, sports doctor, and she's just getting another scan on leg just to see what was going on. And it came back all clear.
00:43:18
Speaker
And so then we were like, why are we getting the pain? Um, Yeah, so I also have autoimmune, like inflammatory arthritis. um So my body does weird things with pain all the time. i often have other pains and all those types of things. So we went down the path of a course of anti-inflammatories to try and like calm that system down as well. And that I was able to come back running after that. It had been a total of six weeks off.
00:43:46
Speaker
um And then I was able to come back running And I didn't have the luxury of doing a significant like walk run sort of protocol because there just wasn't time before Worlds. we did start with running every second day and the first couple of runs were walk run, but really was a much faster ramp up than know you have been doing.
00:44:08
Speaker
more than anyone else with this kind of injury, then I would recommend. It was a risky sort of ramp up, but it was just what had to be done really to, you know, get me in any way close to being ready for worlds.
00:44:23
Speaker
And then to add to the extra strength of that, due to this fast ramp up, then I started to get pain in my left foot. So i was back in for another MRI.
00:44:35
Speaker
This was literally two days before flying out to Europe because I thought, oh, no, I've ramped up too fast. I've got another stress issue. um Thankfully, that came back as it was not bone stress.
00:44:47
Speaker
um There's some kind of growth on the fourth metatarsal in my left foot, which is caused it may be causing some pain, but it was not bone stress. And I was given the clear that to run worlds and we'll worry about that later.
00:45:00
Speaker
So that problem seems to have gone away. Um, so that's like lucky there, but yeah, there were a lot of sleepless nights. There were, there was, you know, a lot of MRIs. There was a lot of, a lot of stress getting to Europe.
00:45:17
Speaker
Thankfully, once I did get to Europe, everything went quite smoothly and I was able to put in four five solid, solid weeks of training. And that's pretty much all I had.
00:45:29
Speaker
So I was very, very happy with how the race performance went given that. Yeah. Wow. I think it would be easy for someone listening to this that's not involved in in the sort of pointier end of the sport think, wow why would you put a risk like that for your body? But the point being is that these these opportunities only come potentially once in your life. And the worst thing you're going to do is make your bone stress worse.
00:45:56
Speaker
which sucks, don't get me wrong, but it's not like you're you're you're very, very unlikely to be cutting a long-term health risk to do this sort of stuff. So, yeah.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yes. Well, that was, I mean, obviously I talked about this with Alice McNamara. She's a doctor with, you know, the Olympic teams and all of that. She understands elite sport herself. She's a world champion rower herself. So she, you know,
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah, we we discussed all of these types of things and, you know, this had been my goal for two years and also i am not young, I'm 42 and so figured probably wouldn't have another chance and so i was, you know, very keen to see it through if at all possible.
00:46:39
Speaker
yeah um But the doubts definitely crept in and also there was definitely a sense of, you know, ah when i I wasn't going as well, progressing as well towards the goal um you know when it started looking maybe like it was a problem there was the question back mind when when should I step aside and give someone else the opportunity at what point do I say like I might not be ready but then there was the hope that maybe I could be ready so it was really like there was a lot of jostling with those questions um
00:47:11
Speaker
I'm trying to understand, you know, at what point do have to say, concede defeat and be like, maybe I, maybe I'm just not on the level. And I know that Mia Noble's been on the podcast as well. And she was struggling with, you know, similar issues. Unfortunately, she did have the subsequent injury from the ramping quickly. And that was very sad. I was very sorry to hear that for her. Cause I felt so that I'd been in that exact situation, like that exact situation.
00:47:39
Speaker
you know, subsequent m MRI and all of that. And unfortunately, you know, sometimes sometimes you have luck on your side. I must have had luck on my side. Unfortunately, she didn't. i've I've spoken to her about it and told her, you know, I'm 42 years old. You've got 21 years in this sport. You you will be back.
00:47:58
Speaker
So, you know, I don't i may not i don't have 21 years left to represent Australia. It be very impressive. It would be very impressive. Yeah. And looking now, obviously, it was you made all the right decisions because it it's paid off. But if you had, let's say that that MRI on your foot had come back as something or if the if the leg had flared up again, do you do you think there would have been any regret of of trying to make that push? you were always like, no, if it happens, it happens. um'm Like, this is what I want.
00:48:30
Speaker
um No, if I was always going to put everything into this particular goal. um And then if I'd been so a sideline, you know for six months afterwards, I would have copped that. yeah Thankfully, that's not what's happened.
00:48:42
Speaker
But ah yeah, I was, you know, prepared to put everything into it. How close to contacting the team and putting the pin were you? Because and yeah yeah I guess before you answer that, obviously we didn't, we're going to go into the into this part of it, but we didn't field a full team. We could have had another least one, to two on the team.
00:49:05
Speaker
So it's not like there was somebody potentially even waiting in the wings to fill your spot because they likely just wouldn't have filled it. So yeah, then how close were you? That was the thing. In the early stages, was thinking I should pull, maybe advise them I had a problem so they could refill my place. But then in the early s stages, I was confident I could also make it back.
00:49:23
Speaker
yeah By the time I thought, ma by the time it started to get that I was like, oh, am I really going to make this? I think maybe it was around the same time that Brodie may have had to withdraw and they hadn't replaced his place. So I sort of thought, we're not replacing people anyway. So it's no harm in me continuing to try and and make this start line sort of thing. That was where my thought process was then. If they had promptly replaced Brodie, I might have might have had other thoughts. But yeah.
00:49:53
Speaker
On that, with the not fielding a full team, um I think a few other people have voiced their opinions that, you know, i believe they should have sent six people. People do get injured. I was injured. Mia was injured. Brodie was injured.
00:50:06
Speaker
People do get injured. um And people do have to withdraw and people do DNF on the day due to you know, or have particularly, um you know, not great races due to things like the wasp stings.
00:50:16
Speaker
um So a great starting point would be to put six people up to begin with so at least we get four or five who can run. But that's just my opinion on the matter. No, I think it's the podcast this week that just just went out with Vlad and Sim has had some really great feedback and because they have, I hope, productively essentially highlighted this or highlighted some flaws, especially with with how Athletics Australia has given a complete disregard of coverage for the trail running. But also we have a completely self-funded team.
00:50:47
Speaker
So what is the difference of adding a full six? Yeah, there were... I like do have a few like thoughts on the full six and one of them was as someone who was injured and maybe or maybe not going to make the start line, it was a lot of pressure knowing I was one of four. like That really was like playing on my mind and causing more sleepless nights and stuff.
00:51:08
Speaker
Because if if I'd been one of six, that would have been less pressure. yeah And it's the same on race day when you know that three scores count when you're only one of three, like in the case of the boys um in the short trail because Brodie was not replaced and in the girls in the short trail because Mia was not replaced, there's a lot of pressure if something does go wrong, like an injury on the day to finish, yeah whereas it would be less pressure on all of the athletes if we had a few more people there.
00:51:39
Speaker
to sort of fall back on if someone's having a bad day or someone's injured.
Racing Challenges and Injury Management
00:51:43
Speaker
Definitely. And I wouldn't have said this beforehand, but essentially that that team is is bearing the weight of every single future team that's going to go to a Welds.
00:51:53
Speaker
And that it needed you guys to to meet that criteria of top 50%, the best that one could and and to finish. And like, yeah, we came 11th as a country overall. So it's incredible because we did complete full teams, but it could have so easily.
00:52:08
Speaker
And we saw with the wasp stings, it could have so easily not happened. um so yes but just finishing off with your leg so UTA which I know that you and I wanted to ask you about the the kind of the pre-race experience because you were I know you're quite sick going into it and even during it but were you also running in pain with your leg uh a little I would not say lot um The leg was such that I had established if I took a few days off, it would sort of calm down and wouldn't hurt a lot.
00:52:44
Speaker
So it wasn't hurting a lot. It was hurting maybe on the downhills in the early parts of the race. After that, I think I just either ignored it enough or something else started hurting more. I'm not sure which. Yeah.
00:53:00
Speaker
uh it wasn't hurting i didn't notice it hurting in the back half of the race which is why it was quite surprising then when i went to just do a run you know a week after uta and it really i couldn't run it was super sore was like oh wow that's like because it wasn't hurting when i crossed the finish line of the race it was only hurting in the uh probably the downhills between maybe five k and 40k or something like that okay um but yeah i'd been dealing with it hurting every training run so i was quite used to I was quite used to that actually by that stage.
00:53:33
Speaker
Do you think you knew it was something more significant, but you just didn't want to get it looked at? um No, I actually didn't think it was something that significant um because I had had a very similar pain in the other leg in 2024.
00:53:49
Speaker
And that had just resolved itself with just a reduction of load for a few weeks. And so i actually thought, This was the same problem and was thus not really a problem I needed to be concerned about because I'd had the same problem, literally identical symptoms in the other leg and they had sort of self-resolved with a small, like a two-week reduction of load.
00:54:12
Speaker
Okay, interesting. ah that' That's why i in hindsight, stupidly pushed through because I just thought, it just needs a bit of a rest and then it'll go away. it's You say stupidly, but we we get so used to running through degrees of pain, and and especially if you have evidence that it was fine the last time.
00:54:31
Speaker
it's yeah it's It's a calculated risk. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. um Just speaking on on UTA, so you, ah sixth place in the field that it was seemed like a very good run. And I know that you said that the the actual run itself wasn't great, but it sounded like you did come in quite sick and the morning of really did not go to plan.
00:54:52
Speaker
What, what, what happened and and like how did you also keep your cool on the start line to still be able to put a day together? Yeah. yeah UTA was a not my, UTA this year was not my best race. I was very happy with the result of six, all things considered. Um, yeah, so I just come down with a cold on about the Wednesday beforehand. Um, so that's never ideal when you're like tapering for a race.
00:55:17
Speaker
Um, So I'd come down with a cold and then sort of had some kind of stomach upset the day before as well, just a mild one, but you know not what you want going into the race. um Then there were a few things that led to me being stayed late to the start line.
00:55:34
Speaker
um I was staying in a ah backpackers that had limited bathrooms um and it was very difficult to get bathroom time in the morning. And then um they closed the road a little early. I was getting dropped off and I was probably cutting it too fine due to the limited bathrooms um to get dropped off. But we still were ahead of the advertised 6am road closure. So I thought I would be able to dropped off like right up at the start line. So thought that would be okay. Then we got there and they'd closed the road sort of 10 minutes early.
00:56:05
Speaker
And so I had to run couple of K in. So that was, then I still needed to use the bathroom once I arrived. Thankfully the very lovely, um, all the other girls in the red start group saw that I was in the pink start group and let me to the front of the queue. So I was able to use the bathroom and race the start line.
00:56:23
Speaker
And yeah, i came in with about 30 seconds till the go times was not ideal at all. Um, And, yeah, then then I just didn't have energy. Once I started running, you know, with the cold or whatever reason it was, I just i got completely dropped at the start.
00:56:39
Speaker
um And so, yeah that i just didn't have the energy to go out at the speed that I would have preferred to go out at. And I was five minutes slower to the first aid station. That was the first time I had like ah ah time I knew, you know, that it should be compared to my time from the ah year prior.
00:56:58
Speaker
And so I was bit like, oh, this is not going well at all. But anyway, i I trucked on and and i managed to pick up places along the way, um mostly in the aid stations. That's, you know, an area that I focused on trying to make up time.
00:57:14
Speaker
um I tried a bit quick through the aid stations. So I managed to pick up quite a few places and yeah somehow finished
Training and Family Balance in Europe
00:57:20
Speaker
in six. So Very, ah very happy with the result in the end, given it was not my favorite, um, race or day.
00:57:30
Speaker
It's always interesting when you hear the real stories behind these days, because sometimes six might have been everything went great. And that's just where you finished that day. And other days it's yeah. Kind of almost everything that could conspire against you, including running with a ah stress reaction in your leg.
00:57:47
Speaker
And you still managed to finish six at UTA and punch your ticket if you take it to ccc next year yes yeah very very impressive which made me laugh earlier when you said about in 2019 getting back to ccc and the fact that you've now owned your spot twice as you said it's uh it's very impressive um all right i feel like we should move forward to worlds we've already spoken about it a bit already, but the training process you were over in Europe for a while before. Uh, I know you definitely in Chamonix for a bit in the Dolomites and then over in Canfrank itself for the race.
00:58:25
Speaker
What was that whole trip experience like in the buildup and how, how were you feeling that week of the event? Yeah. So, um ah originally given, I wasn't sure if I would be selected on the world's team. Um, and I had the CCC entry.
00:58:41
Speaker
um My husband being a paramedic gets given, issued his leave. He doesn't get to choose when it is. And his leave was issued for the time when UTMB was. So we just elected that the whole family would go over. If I would run UTMB, I would run it. If I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
00:58:55
Speaker
um But we would still go we'd just, the whole family would go for those early phase and then I would stay on um for the worlds. And so we did that and that was great. um but so So my husband and kids came over for the first three weeks that I was there.
00:59:12
Speaker
um I think that was actually really hard. yeah It was wonderful to spend time with them, but I was really trying to focus on my training And it was, I had failed to realize just that I had to do everything like that I do at home in the sense of work and training and all of that.
00:59:31
Speaker
And then also plan like what the family is doing that day and, you know, spend time with them going up, you know, the train in Chamonix or something. And it was just, it was a lot.
00:59:42
Speaker
So, you know, I had to spend time like going up a greener midi with the kids and stuff, which is a wonderful thing to do. Don't get me wrong. I love it. It was just, it was a lot to try and fit in. I was trying to struggle a lot and I think that's where we fell apart because with the getting the podcast off the ground because you know you you reached out to me and I was really flat out and then I came back and you were really flat out and that's so that's all all fine now because we're here now but it was hectic the first three weeks that I was over there was very hectic um it was a lot of pressure on my husband as well because he had to look after the kids while I did a long run sort of every second day kind of thing and um
01:00:18
Speaker
And so there was, you know, there was a lot of, a lot for him to do, to support me and, you know, me getting me ready for worlds, which I'm very grateful for. And yeah, it was, there was no relaxation time.
01:00:32
Speaker
There was no sitting by the pool, put it that way. It was very much fitting everything in sort of experience for the first three weeks. Then once my family went home, things calmed down a little bit and that was great. Um,
01:00:45
Speaker
So then I went up to, met up with SJ and we went up to Font Romero where we met up with the other guys who were up there in Font Romero and did some training up there. um And then we went down to Can Frank and did some more like course scoping and training, although it had to be a bit limited because we was in taper by that stage.
01:01:05
Speaker
um So we had to, be mindful not to overdo it. Um, I was able to see about half the course in that time. So that was really good. Um, I find it really helpful to scope the courses. Like I find that really beneficial for my races.
01:01:19
Speaker
If I know the course I'm sort of, yeah, a lot more comfortable. I've, I've certainly run completely blind on the course before and and done okay. But mentally I think it helps me to know the course. I, even if I've just been out to like a midpoint or something,
01:01:36
Speaker
I like when I get in, I'm like, oh, I'm at this point now. I know this part kind of thing. and it sort of gives you a little like mental boost. Like I knew this bit. And so, yeah, I do like to to scope the course.
01:01:49
Speaker
So, yeah, we were in Canfrank and then then down into the team accommodation in Yakub right before the race.
World Championships Strategies and Reflections
01:01:55
Speaker
The conversation before this race was about how technical it was going to be specifically the long trail. You seem to be somebody that thrives on that style of terrain. When you were on the part of the course that you were able to do how were you feeling about the race itself?
01:02:14
Speaker
I was... yeah, I do thrive on technical terrain. So I was really excited about the the course. I loved the course. I really loved it. I was excited about it in the lead up. Um, it did not disappoint. It was everything I had hoped it would be. So yeah, it was really, really great. I really thoroughly enjoyed every moment, the training, the training recce and the race.
01:02:36
Speaker
Yeah. What do you put that love of technicality down to? it's an interesting question. um Obviously, I've spent a lot of time in the mountains, you know hiking and all of those things before, but I seem to have some innate ability for technical, um possibly from the gymnastics and horse riding balance. i'm not I'm not exactly sure why, maybe just from being an outdoorsy hiking child, so being on that terrain from a young age. I'm really not sure why. I do seem to have some some degree of innate ability um on the technical, but then on top of that is something I've also worked at because I do really enjoy it
01:03:14
Speaker
um I feel like running a technical descent, I kind of almost feel like it's like dancing. Like you're kind of like, it's like almost an art form. it's yeah It's like a flow. it's It's really fun. I find it really enjoyable running a technical descent.
01:03:29
Speaker
And you get into like, if you get into a flow state running it where you're not like stressing or overthinking it, you just, it's just happening. It's super enjoyable.
01:03:40
Speaker
um i imagine it's similar. i I know you ski, I snowboard. um I liken it to that when you, you know, you're quite proficient at those sports. It's very enjoyable going downhill in that manner.
01:03:52
Speaker
um I'm sure it's similar to other downhill sports. I do not do like mountain biking, but I'm sure it's similar if you're very good at mountain biking. I'm just constantly stressed. I'm going to fall over the handlebars mountain biking. yeah So I imagine that's how people that are not so proficient at technical running feel. Definitely.
01:04:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's always struck me in my experiences as well as if running on technical terrain, especially downhill technical terrain, is something that you don't mind. You do more of it. You get better and better and better. And you start to be able to find that flow state so much easier opposed to, if you are worried about your ankles or smashing your face into a rock, which can can happen, you avoid it and therefore get worse and worse and worse. And um and also access to environment, Melbourne, not technical, Lerderberg is a decent place to train for you. But still not quite replicating the, uh, the trails that you would have got over in Canfrank.
01:04:44
Speaker
Yeah. Like I do definitely seek out the technical trails locally in Melbourne, um, like Lodadug and, you know, those that there are in the Dandenongs. And I also, yeah, seek out the technical trails up around Mount Hotham in summer. And, um, yeah, it's just, yeah, something that I enjoy to do. So if you enjoy it, you do it more.
01:05:05
Speaker
no And yeah, then I was, seeking out the technical trails in the training in the lead up overseas i think i went a little too far that i was like on very very technical trails in the dolomites and stuff that was it was very slow so then i was worried i maybe wasn't training enough running running running you know because it was just so slow all my training runs over there but it seemed to work out sorry but Definitely did.
01:05:31
Speaker
It brings the question then, oh like on the start line, how confident were you in your fitness and your body to do the event? um I was confident and I was going to finish. Absolutely confident I was going to finish. Well, sorry, that's not entirely true.
01:05:45
Speaker
I was confident I could finish except for the cutoffs were tight and I wasn't 100% confident because it's hard to know exactly what pace the course will run at. I wasn't 100% confident that I could make the cutoffs, but I was, i would say fairly confident I could make the cutoffs based on my recce times and, you know, similar times I've run for similar courses.
01:06:05
Speaker
I was reasonably confident that I was going to make the cutoff and thus be able to finish. Um, I was not confident of having any kind of impressive performance, just making the cutoff and finishing. Okay.
01:06:19
Speaker
And so you start, gun goes off. It seemed, now I was going to say, it seemed like you took a somewhat conservative, but i guess, at least when you look at the fact that you came came through the field quite well. But then I read one of your race reviews, I think it was for KMR, where you said people often say that, and actually you're at threshold going up the climb and that's just what you've got.
01:06:39
Speaker
was Was that the case for here? Absolutely. That was exactly the best year. There was no like being super conservative. i just, that's just how I run. And I feel like I'm pushing kind of the whole way with a fairly equal effort level, the whole race. And I just seem to come through the field. It just seems to be how, how it pans out.
01:07:02
Speaker
um The field went out very quickly at the world champs and we all knew there was a bottleneck sort of one and a half K in. And everyone wants to be ahead of the pack for the bottleneck.
01:07:13
Speaker
um So we were running out around four minutes a K and I was like well towards the back of the pack. And I just can't run any faster than that. I mean, not when I'm about to run 80 Ks.
01:07:24
Speaker
So I just accepted that I was, you know, I'm not going to try and sprint at, you know, the first fully sprint, the first kilometer, four minutes a K is very fast for me. So I just was sitting there at that sort of pace, accepting that I was going to get stuck in the bottleneck.
01:07:41
Speaker
And that was mildly frustrating because then we went on to technical trail, which is my strength. And I was held back for the next sort of, you know, two, two and a half K, however far it was um on the technical trail, but it's a very long race.
01:07:53
Speaker
That was the first 20 minutes. So not the end of the world. um It was interesting to note though, I had done a recce run, like ah a simulation of the first 4k of the race and my time on race day was slower than my simulation time due to the bottlenecks and that.
01:08:09
Speaker
Okay. Even though my simulation time, I didn't feel like I was giving a hundred percent effort or anything. Yeah. So yeah, it definitely did slow. The traffic slowed us down, but yeah, then we got into the climb and it was a bit, you could,
01:08:23
Speaker
get past people and stuff. yeah I was watching the live stream and it did, it was, it was funny to watch the guys go off the front because they were really going for it.
01:08:34
Speaker
And then all of a sudden you turn left on just after the bridge and it just stopped and it was massive people, which I must've just been incredibly frustrating. the How long did it kind of stay like that? And how long do you think you got held up for?
01:08:48
Speaker
Well, it was probably only like, a minute or two that it cost me. It wasn't a lot in the grand scheme of ah a race, which took me in the end 13 hours. It was not a lot of time.
01:08:59
Speaker
um It was, it, yeah, it was just more like about positioning um that I think if I was a stronger runner and had more confidence to run out a little faster, I could have got myself slightly in a better position at that start like for that first technical section, but it it was not okay.
01:09:17
Speaker
okay Everybody at the world champs is a, you know, a, a competitive strong runner. So they all want to run out fast and get themselves in a good position. Whereas in regular races, it's only a small few that yeah want jostle for those positions.
01:09:33
Speaker
ah At what point did you start to feel yourself working your way through the field? um i was pleased with how I completed the first climb. um I was pleased that I was overtaking a few people on the first climb and I didn't feel that I was ah overdoing it.
01:09:51
Speaker
And um there was a fairly runnable uphill section, like a very gentle uphill section it as part of the first climb. And I was running well on that and runnable uphill is not my strength. So I was really happy with how the body was feeling on that like more runnable uphill.
01:10:06
Speaker
um So then yeah, I was just feeling quite strong in the first c climb. And I sort of knew if I, if I made it to the top of the first climb strong, that then we went into technical descending, which is more my strength.
01:10:19
Speaker
So um So, yeah, I was able to then move past quite a few people on the technical descent and there. And then just I was sort of just happy with how I was tracking. I knew I was like mid-pack to sort of maybe like slightly lower than mid-pack, but yeah you don't.
01:10:38
Speaker
really know what place you're in. I did not know what place I was in that whole race until the finish line. I did not know. You don't know what place you're It doesn't matter. You're not in the top yeah you're not in the top five. So ultimately, you just you're there to have a good run and do your best. And you know if it's 50-60, if it's 50-60, if it's 50-70, that doesn't matter kind of thing.
01:10:59
Speaker
So um yeah i just I knew I was having a good run. And so I was really happy with that. yeah um that i will I was well under the cutoff so I was running strong i was that was sort of yeah where the mindset was just that I was running well yeah well and yeah you finished just over two hours ahead of the cutoff so well and truly ah ahead now knowing that in the selection criteria they did they did want people that would come top 50 did that ever play on your mind was that ever a consideration for you
01:11:30
Speaker
um No, not at all, really, because I knew that those cutoffs were quite tight. um I sort of thought if I made the cutoff, you weren't going to be in the like lower, you know, I didn't know what percent was going to get cutoff, but you weren't going to be in the lower percent of the field.
01:11:46
Speaker
if you may You weren't going to be right at the back, basically, if you made the cutoff. So ah for the women's long trail, yeah, the goal really just becomes to be to to make those cutoffs. and um It was the same in Austria.
01:11:59
Speaker
um the The goal was really just to make the cutoffs and to have a strong run and wherever that places you in the field, it is. Yeah. Okay. No, i'm glad i'm glad I'm glad to hear that because it the...
01:12:11
Speaker
may have had absolutely no no impact or it may be an undue stress. Obviously there's always pressure to perform me there for your country, but there's productive and unproductive types of that of that pressure.
01:12:22
Speaker
And now we're a couple of weeks removed from it. Looking back on how you performed that day, how are you feeling about it? um I'm still really, really happy with how it went. um ah Really, considering my undesirable lead-in, it went better than I possibly could have imagined it went, to be perfectly honest.
01:12:44
Speaker
um I really thought, like, with the undesirable lead-in, the best case was finishing, and I really, you know, expected to be probably a little further down the field.
01:12:55
Speaker
Like, um yeah, so i was I was thrilled with, I think I was 55th, I was thrilled with that. um I was also thrilled that, you know, i had held held up my own with the other Australians and was able to be a contributing member to the team because i think a small part of me like essentially the goal was just to finish but there was definitely a part of me that had I wanted to be a contributing member not about being the top 50 as per AIA's guidelines but I think there was a little part of me wanted to be one of the three that score contributes so that was that was definitely important to me um I didn't really focus on that at any point um
01:13:34
Speaker
But in yeah, I'm pleased that that did eventuate because then when we say Australia was 11th, I'm like, oh yes, and I got lots of points for Australia. You know, that makes me proud. I'm glad to hear that it when I was going through is your ultra uh interview questions and some a few things you just said there made me think of it again you quoted Alex Hormozy which I loved uh but the the end of that was essentially saying outwork your self-doubt is having self-belief in your ability to perform these levels is that something that you have or still do struggle with
01:14:08
Speaker
um yeah Usually I have a good confidence in completing races and in my ability to perform reasonably well because I am quite consistent.
01:14:19
Speaker
But I definitely have doubts that creep in at times. And watching the short trail the day before may not have been the best for my mental preparation for the race because just watching it and they all did fantastically and there's absolutely no criticism to anyone on the short trail. It's just confronting seeing people you consider to be amazing runners, way better than you, placing, you know, in the 80s and stuff. And it's like it when you're preparing for your own race and you see these people that, you know, you look up to and they're placing in the 80s, it's quite confronting and you're like, but I'm not as good as them. I
01:15:03
Speaker
i probably think that i I started psyching myself out after watching the short trail. um Yeah, because I was, yeah, started to get a bit nervous after watching that.
01:15:17
Speaker
Just because it's confronting the standard, how good the standard is. And I'm sure that, you know, everyone in Australia, maybe it's difficult to comprehend that, like how our best runners are coming 50th, you know, how our you know our best runners are coming. Like it's it's really difficult to comprehend that until you see it with your own eyes and they're not like having a terrible day or anything. It's just like the standard is so high.
01:15:44
Speaker
Definitely. i's It's incredible. It's something that Siobhan were remarking on. ah In the short course, granted, Tove Alexandersson had apparently, objectively, the best performance ever by a female in trail running.
01:15:59
Speaker
But she was nearly, or she was two hours ahead of SJ. Yes. Which SJ lines up healthy to any sort of 50K distance. And aside from Kate Avery in the last few years, no one could beat her.
01:16:12
Speaker
Absolutely. And and anyway you go, wow, okay. Like this is, it's not just watching the elites now. It's this is this is the level of gap that... talent, skill, education, support, all those sort of things they do really, they feel, but I can imagine it would be deflating to go, right, okay, that's that's big.
01:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess I watched that like the day before my race, that exact thing you've described, and it was scary. It was downright scary because you just feel like I'm just not on the level.
01:16:44
Speaker
Like I'm not on SJ's level, so I'm definitely not on the level. Like that's what I felt like. That's the feeling I had. I think it's what your result ended up being is testament to A, how you approach a race and B, your confidence on the terrain.
01:17:03
Speaker
And by the sounds of it, even just the specificity that you did in the time that you had with, you were in the mountains, you just said were doing long runs every other day. So you were clearly getting the time on feet, getting the elevation and getting comfortable into that and able to then go, okay, um I'm going to do my thing today. And whether that's 50th or a hundredth,
01:17:22
Speaker
it's going to be what it's going to be and just got to do you. Yeah, absolutely. um With the limited buildup, I just had to focus on specificity and focus on the fact that the course did play to my strengths and that I'm pretty consistent at finishing things that I start. So I was pretty confident that I could get around the course.
01:17:44
Speaker
I just was not sure what kind of performance I could have. Yeah, well, it ended up being a very impressive one. So congratulations for that. like it was fantastic to, when i I, think, because it ran into the early hours of the morning and i when I went to bed, Cecilia was the first Australian at that point.
Comparing Canfrank and Innsbruck Experiences
01:18:00
Speaker
And I woke up and it had just completely changed and we saw what position you ended up in. i was like, wow, that's like, you've come from 80 or something. I think when I went to sleep and woke up in your mid fifties, it was, it was very impressive.
01:18:12
Speaker
Thank you very much. I'm very pleased with it. um Your experience at Canfrank versus Innsbruck, are there any noticeable changes or differences across the two?
01:18:25
Speaker
um Canfrank was a lot more technical. It was definitely more technical than Innsbruck. um That was the main difference really. um What else the differences? Yeah.
01:18:42
Speaker
Nothing else really to speak of massively. um Just, yeah, the the main difference in the course was it was more technical, which played to my strengths a little more. Yeah. um yeah And I think they were both beautiful, but I reckon I enjoyed the Can Frank course more.
01:18:59
Speaker
the before The photos definitely sold it. It looked it looked incredible. um the The experience of actually being at the event, did the event itself feel any difference?
01:19:11
Speaker
I would say the one in Innsbruck had a bit of a bigger sort of vibe, probably due to just being in a more major city and they had, you know, like a bigger gantry for the finish and the opening ceremony had everyone at it and all of those things. So I think Innsbruck probably they did create a bigger vibe, but it certainly still was, you know, and a nice experience in Canfrank and I was lucky enough to be one of the people drawn at random to particip participate in the the ceremony, which was just really nice touch.
01:19:45
Speaker
um So that was that was nice. I felt very sorry for everyone else who missed out. Yeah. For the people listening that don't follow this, can you just describe what sort of happened there and and what that opening ceremony thus felt like?
01:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, so the previous opening ceremonies that I've been to um in Austria and also at the Sky Running Worlds, the whole team would march together. But in this case, in Can Frank, they said that only five athletes could march.
01:20:15
Speaker
um It was a logistical thing and I think they could only take five athletes on the bus up there. So that may have been the reason. And and so We all had a lot of private transport. A lot of the people in the Australian team had cars. So we were able to drive um and transport anyone who wanted to go to the opening ceremony up there.
01:20:35
Speaker
um but So it would have been nice if they had let anyone that could get themselves there march, but that was not the case. It was only five people allowed to march. So um the the team managers decided very fairly that it would be the two team captains, Kelly and Matt,
01:20:52
Speaker
And then there would be one male, one female and one junior that was drawn at random. And I was very lucky enough to be the female. So that was just a pleasant surprise. they Did it still have the opening ceremony feel to it, even there were less people?
01:21:07
Speaker
Yes, it did have the opening ceremony feel, but there was a little bit of chaos when they first started the march and we had Bolivia in front of us. And, I mean, know, I can say the alphabet and Bolivia is not in front of Australia.
01:21:18
Speaker
We tried to tell them that they were out of order and it didn't go so well. And, yeah, so it was ah there was some chaos, let's say, yeah um in the with the initial march. So then they started calling us through in the...
01:21:32
Speaker
order with the country names and it was a little bit more like a regular sort of opening ceremony once everyone was being called through in order and everyone had their flags up and the music was playing and all of that yeah they also didn't have any music while we were marching or drums which was a shame because they had spanish drummers earlier on and they just didn't have them drumming for the march which was a little of That is, definitely, especially if they were there.
01:21:58
Speaker
There's so many little things that go into these
Team Experience at World Championships
01:22:02
Speaker
these events. It's just fascinating hearing the the stories from them. Is there anything else from your experience or the build-up to Worlds that you feel of note?
01:22:13
Speaker
Oh, just that it was you know a really wonderful experience to share with the whole team. It's a great experience to have a team event and to get to know and support the other team members.
01:22:26
Speaker
um Some of them you might know already and others, you know, you don't don't know because they're from different states or that type of thing. um And so, yeah it's really really wonderful experience to share as a group.
01:22:38
Speaker
um I would encourage anyone that wants to go to you know, set it as a goal and work towards it. um It's obviously getting really competitive um to to make the teams.
The Role of Social Media and Sponsorships
01:22:51
Speaker
Hopefully we can at least see six people selected um in future for these trail races so that, um you know, more people can experience they yeah the experience it is to represent Australia and and run on these big international courses, which are quite exciting.
01:23:11
Speaker
Definitely. Definitely. um i had a question then. It's completely escaped my escape my mind. That's fine. um One So over the last, I think probably 18 months or so, you seem to have kind of, if you've picked up quite a few brand partners, sponsorship, Bergen Equipment and La Sportiva. If I miss anything to say, Tailwind, thing i think it's Sinto and Shox, are they official? yeah or they yeah Yes. So I have been lucky enough to pick up some partnerships. did work.
01:23:44
Speaker
i did work. You mentioned my social media before I did work on my social media for quite some time because that is, um, just a big part of it these days. If you want to get the brand partnerships, you do have to put in the work, both in the training and the results and on the social media.
01:24:01
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's just, just the way it is. So thankfully that has sort of paid off. I'm, you know, very grateful to Bodong for their support.
01:24:11
Speaker
They were the first, you know, the first to kind of come um to help me out. And then they were they were able to arrange the La Sportiva support as well. So, yeah, that was that's been really wonderful. um Also,
01:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, all of the other partners that have come on board, I'm very pleased with and grateful for their support as well because this is not a cheap sport. And so anything that saves us any money um is very much appreciated. And also, like, they'll provide some assistance and help. Tailwind helps out with the nutrition plans and that type of thing.
01:24:50
Speaker
So, yeah it it is greatly appreciated. Yeah. did it do and did Did it make you feel any different about yourself as a runner be picking up these partners?
01:25:01
Speaker
um suppose there was some degree of validation that maybe I am but like a um a real competitive. I don't like the term elite, but maybe I am a real elite runner.
01:25:15
Speaker
I don't like that term at all. But it did, suppose, yeah. it did i suppose yeah provide some degree of, you know, validation of that sense, some, you a little bit of confidence there, I suppose.
01:25:29
Speaker
um Yeah, it's, I just know it's in this space, there's a lot to it, to the brand partnerships. There are some incredible athletes that aren't sponsored, um don't have any brand partnerships.
01:25:42
Speaker
And you know then there are so many, many influencers that have brand partnerships that are not running at that level. So it's a complex space in 2025. So yeah it's it's one that that's tricky, but yeah I did did have to focus on my social media. so how How did you find doing that?
01:26:04
Speaker
Time consuming would be the one. yeah Time consuming. There were so many times I said to my husband, I spend all this time and I think it's just, it would be more, this time would be better spent like working and then buying shoes or buying, yeah yeah I think in the early phases when it wasn't panning out, when you're getting those no emails repeatedly, um because,
01:26:29
Speaker
i anyone that's been looking for partnerships will have experienced. There are a lot of, you you know, you do knock on a lot of doors that result in dead ends before things come to fruition.
01:26:40
Speaker
So, yeah, I think initially that I felt the social media stuff was just really time consuming. Whilst I don't dislike it or anything,
01:26:51
Speaker
It's, I'm not one that I don't really enjoy talking to the camera. That's not like the style of my social media. I much prefer posting photos of, videos of the amazing landscapes and those types of things. So that's difficult because that's not as appealing to brands.
01:27:08
Speaker
um So I've had to try to bring myself into the photos and videos and stuff a little bit more, ah um but I'm still not comfortable being the fully open person. You know, i see other people doing this really well. um You know, like me, I shared a whole injury journey on social media and I was following that and that was great.
01:27:29
Speaker
I could not, that was not me like that. I had similar injury journey, but that's not me to be sharing those types of really vulnerable things on social media. I would, I would struggle with that.
01:27:42
Speaker
yeah um, yeah I think it's something that a lot of people would say that finding that balance of vulnerability on social media is, is, is tricky because there is a degree of oversharing that can happen, especially for the right person.
01:27:57
Speaker
Your audience will will find you if you speak to them and you're sharing your story in the way that they want to be they want to interact with you. But it even if you are opening yourself up a bit, it's still very hard because you're putting yourself out there for on public display.
01:28:12
Speaker
do Have you found yourself kind of becoming a bit more comfortable with doing that over the time and of being more more present on socials?
Future Race Plans and Reflections
01:28:21
Speaker
I don't know. um I'm definitely more comfortable with posting, but I still feel like now I feel a bit, I struggle a bit with like a lot of the brand posting and stuff because I feel like, oh, I don't want to be bombarding people with just like sponsored posts kind of thing.
01:28:36
Speaker
So I feel like I should be putting a bit more personal stuff out there. But as I said, time is just a huge factor. Like I had a lot more I could have posted content from my trip to Europe had some really amazing content but I was just really struggling for time to like find the time to post so I might get up like one quick story or you know something like that but I'm really struggling to do a proper post and reels take forever so yeah I it time is a big a big factor there
01:29:07
Speaker
Going forward from here, obviously coming off great result of worlds. You've had ah pretty busy year years, but especially kind of going through the injury as well.
01:29:19
Speaker
Is there anything else left for you this year? Yes. I am into the GPT.
01:29:27
Speaker
um Right. I was feeling confident about that afterwards, but then I've been sick, as you can see. um So I've been pretty sick and run down since I got back.
01:29:39
Speaker
So now I'm feeling less confident about that. So we'll ah see how I feel in the next couple of weeks. But hopefully hopefully I can yeah get down there and run on some trails in the Grampians.
01:29:54
Speaker
I am entered in the miler. yeah which will be my first miler actually i have run many hundred k's and i've always been a little scared of the miler distance um but yeah if i'm not feeling well i may have to reduce that distance we'll see yeah it was something that i definitely noticed the fact that you've done a lot of hundreds plus or minus a bit but ne never gone to the the miler so it's exciting to to hear that is it just that you've never felt ready for it Yeah, I've always had the view that like 100k hurts enough. Why would I want to run 60 more?
01:30:29
Speaker
Also, like I've mentioned earlier, I don't like compromising sleep. I'm not a person who deals well with sleep deprivation. So i ah the marla has bothered me because of the fact you have to go through a full night. That's always sort of bothered me. Yeah.
01:30:45
Speaker
I chose GPT not only because it's an amazing event with amazing trails and all of that and local, but because of the like the start time is more palatable. I don't think I could cope with one of those 6pm or 11pm starts in Europe.
01:31:00
Speaker
That would really knock me around, I think. So I've chosen GPT. Even a 4 a.m. start or something like Alpine Challenge would really be hard for me because I'd get only a couple of hours sleep prior to then running through the following night. So I'm trying to choose one where I can at least sleep before I start the race.
01:31:18
Speaker
So we'll see. if If I feel right now, as i said, I'm not feeling well. So yeah um just very, very run down and had, yeah, back-to-back sort of colds now since.
01:31:29
Speaker
um since Worlds, but that is that is the plan if I miraculously recover. Something with GPT that interests me, and I actually don't know if anyone else really cares in Australia, is the fact that it is the World Trail major event.
01:31:45
Speaker
Does that have any significance for you? Yeah, look, that was definitely an enticing point to entering. um i had sort of wanted to do it for a while, but that was, I mean, it The fact it was a larger profile event maybe help helped me to choose it over some of the other milers that are in the area in Australia.
01:32:07
Speaker
Yeah. ah as um I think it was it was a ah pretty momentous thing for Australia to to get one. And it's one that I know we haven't really covered too much on the podcast yet, but I'm also not too sure how much the rest of the ah the country, even the competitive side of things, it it it matters. But I know that it is definitely drawing a much more competitive feel than we've seen over here for a long time. So,
01:32:28
Speaker
Yes, exciting if you'll be on that start line, but also, yeah there's no point sacrificing your your health long term, which unfortunately running through sickness can definitely do. Nicole, is there anything else that we haven't spoken about today that you feel like you'd like this opportunity to chat about?
01:32:46
Speaker
um not for me i just want to say that i love what you guys are doing at peak pursuits all of you i love your interviews james and all of the coverage that it's really i think enhancing trail running in australia so i've been listening since it started and yeah i want to say good job you know keep it up thank you on behalf of everyone thank you very much we we really appreciate it it's definitely uh From my side, it's been great getting to know a lot more of the the the elites and the personalities in the sport. But and I know that the the podcast has definitely helped lot of people. And if someone listens to this and has questions, always do hit us up because we we love talking about it and seeing where we can help and give a little bit of insight from have some of the most competitive people. And I think everybody's a coach, or at least was. Vlad doesn't coach anymore, but he was full-time for a very long time. So there's a lot of insight there. But um but thank you very much.
01:33:37
Speaker
Cool. Nicole, well, thank you for your time. I'm really glad we got to do this. Congratulations again on your run um over at Worlds. And if you do GPT, good luck. And if not, I'm looking forward to seeing what's in your future. Thanks so much, James. I really appreciate it.
01:33:51
Speaker
Thank you. Bye. Okay, that was a really great chat. you hopefully came across in there, I found Nicole really interesting and really applaud her openness, her curiosity and her courage to go after what she really wanted, which I think sometimes it's really hard to give yourself permission and I can imagine, especially as a parent, to do so. i think she has an incredible support system around her, but at the same time, you still have to allow yourself to take the chance and go for it.
01:34:19
Speaker
Nicole had every right to do so and to believe that she could, but still I came away very inspired for my own running journey, regardless of what that goal might be. If you did enjoy this episode, please follow PP Suits wherever you listen, leave a quick review and share it with a mate who'd get something out of this conversation with Nicole. You can also find on Instagram at PP Suits Pod for clips and updates of upcoming episodes.
01:34:42
Speaker
As always, thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you next time.