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UTCT Podium, Terrex Insights, and Charlie’s Breakthrough | Episode 85
0 Playsin 11 hours
In this episode of Peak Pursuits, James and Vlad sit down with Adidas Terrex athlete Charlie Hamilton, fresh off his third-place podium at Ultra-Trail Cape Town 55km. Charlie breaks down the brutal technical course, the stacked international field, and how three weeks on the Cape Town trails transformed his race day confidence.
The trio dive into elite training insights, including Charlie’s shift to physiologically-driven coaching, technical downhill development, and how he’s preparing for Tarawera 100km. They also explore the evolution of Adidas’ Agravic Speed Ultra 2, World Trail Majors significance, and what this result means for the future of Australian trail running.
A must-listen for athletes following UTCT, gear updates, and the rise of Aussie talent on the global stage.
Results:
- UTCT 100km and 55km World Trail Majors
- GSER (VIC)
- ATR (Adelaide Trail Runners) Summer Series 1: Black Hill (SA)
- SEQ Trail Series Round 4: Bayview (QLD)
- Sydney Trail Spring Series Race 3: St Ives (NSW)
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits!
Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow Vlad: Instagram | Strava
Follow James: Instagram | Strava | Website
Follow Charlie: Instagram
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 85
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 85 of the Peepershoot podcast. My name is James. I'm joined this week by Vlad, how are you Yeah, feeling a bit poor with all the Black Friday sales, buying a lot of shoes. But yeah, otherwise doing well.
Vlad's Black Friday Shoe Haul
00:00:17
Speaker
I've just been quizzing Vlad on what shoes he'ss he's bought. Sounds like a fun package is about to arrive.
Vlad's Race Achievement
00:00:22
Speaker
And we're also fresh off his Altrail Cape Town 55k podium coming in
Guest Appearance: Charlie Hamilton
00:00:28
Speaker
third place. We've got Charlie Hamilton. Charlie, thanks for coming back on the pod.
00:00:31
Speaker
No, always happy to come on. It's always great. Yeah. I think we're very excited to hear about the race. It's really cool to see you get on a bigger international podium. Um, why don't you ah start us there? So that's why we kind of got you here to have a chat about how, like, well, actually first of all, what what's it like being over in Cape town and and being that, in that, that environment?
Cape Town's Trail Running Community
00:00:51
Speaker
Cause they do seem to really love the trails there.
00:00:54
Speaker
Oh, they, they love it here. um Yeah, here's like such an interesting place because the like Table Mountain and kind of the Massif here is huge and it's so gnarly. And then there's kind of just like the city dispersed around it.
00:01:09
Speaker
um And I think having such access to trails from like any part of the city means that so many people are into trail running and the, you know, you hear about it a lot, but the community here is kind of crazy. Like we've had a couple of Terex events before the race and there'd be 200 people there.
00:01:25
Speaker
We rock up to this thing called Tuesday Trails, which is just ah basically a group run they have every Tuesday at six o'clock. And there would have been 300 people. And, you know, five different groups. The first group goes full gas.
00:01:37
Speaker
And then the last group, like, they just put around and then everyone has a beer after. So the community here really is properly gnarly. And it's kind of what makes the race, I think. Sweet. And, like, is this race their marquee event? Yeah. They have, yeah, 100%.
00:01:52
Speaker
They have... yeah hundred percent they have ah that like races here every weekend um apparently everyone here loves to race a lot but the yeah utct definitely is the big one and you can tell that from yeah a lot of things a lot of people get really excited for it and uh there's kind of massive infrastructure around the race lots of stuff going on so yeah yeah vlad have you been over for this one before No, I was going to ask because I always say there's a lot of hype about Cape Town now with the world champs.
Running Safety in Cape Town
00:02:22
Speaker
I'm going to be there in two years time. The Cape Town Marathon being a major in a couple of years. um
00:02:30
Speaker
But I think in the back of my mind is the Tom Evans event. being being kind of robbed like mid trail run. um Obviously, have you heard much about that, Charlie? Experienced anything like that safety wise?
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think like it safety is something that before I came out here, people were saying, you know it's going to be so dangerous. You can't drive cars around normally. You can't stop traffic lights, trails, you can't go by yourself.
00:03:00
Speaker
But I think as long as you just have a little bit of awareness here, like there are some places that you obviously you won't go on a Tuesday at one o'clock because there's no one going to be on those trails.
00:03:11
Speaker
but So instead, you run on those trails, on a weekend where there's heaps of people around. um like I haven't felt had one issue here where I've been unsafe. So I think it's just about, you just have to be a little bit more cognizant about where you're going and when you're going.
00:03:26
Speaker
But I've been out to run every day here. you know i've been able to run by myself on quite a lot of trails and it's been fine the whole time. Yeah, okay, that's good. like it is It's definitely something that when I heard about Tom's story and the the fact that he's like, I will not go back to Cape Town, it makes you think about, okay, is is it somewhere that you really should visit? But then you see all the the media that comes out of it. It looks stunning. The course looks really cool. They clearly love the sport. It's like ah it's somewhere that would be cool to put on the bucket list. But yeah, it it's good to hear that it's not as bad as it maybe seems. Yeah.
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, just, you just have to be a little bit more aware of of where you're running and when you're running. And then other than that, it's fine.
Adidas Terex Team Experience
00:04:08
Speaker
And is this the first event that you've been with a lot of the Terex team? um Throughout the year, I've kind of met a favorite bit of the team. Like at Transylvania, there was a few and then ah Broken Arrow. And then I went out to Herzog, like to team campus to do some testing. So I've met quite a lot of the team, but I mean, I think there's 30 runners or something and then quite a lot of staff as well. So I've met a lot more people here. um And it's been really nice because we've been out here for three weeks.
00:04:37
Speaker
um like I've really been now to spend a lot of time with the team. And that's been that's been amazing. you know we get We could learn so much. There's so much um experience in in everything. And a lot of these people have raced here a lot before, so that helped a lot for the race. It does feel like Adidas Tarek's put a bit of um emphasis on South Africa in general. Like a lot of the athletes spend a bit of time training there and they're always there racing. Is that something that they kind of,
00:05:03
Speaker
push towards some of the athletes to make it down there for the race? Yeah, a couple reasons. I think um South Africa is a big market for trial running and basically all running. Like like I said with the with the events here, people love running. and and you really know, you can see the work that Adidas has done here. like In Australia, you know there's not many people wearing Terex shoes.
00:05:30
Speaker
But here, they're everywhere. It's like, yeah, they're everywhere. and And you can really see the work. And then also, Adidas South Africa is amazing. And they have lots of activations with us here.
00:05:45
Speaker
So it's a combination of like Adidas Global, Adidas South Africa, all have kind of a big focus on
Adidas' New Shoe Releases
00:05:50
Speaker
this. Plus, it's just a great race and it's just a great place to spend a lot of time in so the team kind of you know make the most of that think one more question before we get into the race um there have been kind of teasing us that the new um aggravate speed ultra tours are coming out is that the shoe that you use for the race yep yeah so that got the official release of that was like a couple days before the event we had like some big
00:06:18
Speaker
events here for that. um I think I might be wrong. I probably shouldn't say this. I think it should be in Australia around the new year, if not sooner. um And yeah, I, I really liked the update. um A couple, couple major points is like,
00:06:34
Speaker
There's a slightly more forgiving foam that I think is a little bit faster. So softer foam, slightly stiffer rods. The heel collar is majorly updated. Um, so you feel a lot safer in that shoes. Um, we had a couple of different options of shoes to wear for this race and it's very technical.
00:06:51
Speaker
Um, and I ended up going with ASU two just because honestly the heel collar one is a big thing. I feel really safe in that shoe. um And yeah, i think i think it's a really I think it's a really good update. And does it have like a similar rocker than the first one? Because obviously the first one I really like and I ran with it quite a lot, still do.
00:07:12
Speaker
um But it's definitely a bit aggressive in the way that it pushes you forward and might not suit a lot of like midfoot heel strikers. Yeah, for sure. Yep. So it's the same. It's just an update, basically. um The ASU2, it's essentially the same shoe with yeah updated upper, updated midsole and actually um updated grip.
00:07:37
Speaker
Um, that's why the, you'll see we've released a, um, a graphic speed two and the TT. Um, the TT is a, is what I'd say is a great kind of all rounder shoe because you're right. Vlad, the ASU is a really aggressive shoe.
00:07:52
Speaker
Um, And Adidas being such like a German performance orientated brand is like the shoe is developed for running fast. um And I think the TT is great because you have a lot more stability. It's a completely different shoe. Have a look at it when it comes out. um It's really quite stable. It was almost developed for these kinds of trials here that are kind of rough and tumble.
00:08:16
Speaker
And then the ah graphic speed as well is just a classic. like nice foam, lowish profile running shoe that I think a lot of people could wear. Yeah. When the first ASU came out, David Roach was obviously one of the biggest names, like really pushing it. And I think people listening to that to their podcast definitely fell into that boat, but the shoe, it suited people that were fast on the forfeit and liked an aggressive ride. Do you feel like when you're looking at the lineup of what's coming out, do do you feel like the ASU too is going to suit more people? Like if someone wants a fast shoe for the trails, is that where you you would think, like go this way still? Yeah.
00:08:55
Speaker
Look, if if that's if that's what you're leading to, if you want something that you can run quite fast in, the ASU is definitely the shoe. um But yeah, that's not like a lot of people just want like a big comfy shoe that they can get around the trails in.
00:09:11
Speaker
and And there you kind of look towards the TT or even the Agravic 4 is, ah I think is a really nice update. It is actually a really beautiful, simple trail running shoe. You know, there's not many two frills on it. Nice foam, nice grip, nice upper.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah. I was watching a review on the TT this morning and the kind of the the dual density light strike on the top and something a bit, bit, bit denser underneath. So I thought would suit, especially more if you want like a training shoe or more of a ah mountainous ultra that could go, could go well there, but yeah isn't obviously a, This isn't isn't an Adidas sponsored episode, but it is curious. I feel like when Adidas brought out the ASU, it really moved that like trail super shoe line forward. So the ASU 2 is probably like the most anticipated shoe to come out in 2026. And I think you're right, Charlie. I heard that in December, they're doing an early release for Addi Club members. And then i think February is the actual release date. So yeah, fun for people if you're hitting up two bays or something like that in the new year. And it's like i feel like that's probably a perfect shoe. Um, but yeah, I'll stop, stop sponsoring Adidas. We'll give them the free plugs now. Um, so, okay. Take us to
Charlie's Race Preparation
00:10:18
Speaker
the race. Like how was, how's the last few weeks leading into it? How are you feeling going onto, onto the day?
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah. So I got really lucky. Um, we're at, I'm out here for a whole month. So I got here three weeks before the race. And i think that that is probably the single best thing that contributed to my result here.
00:10:37
Speaker
The trials, like. there's no, there's no nice running in this race. There's maybe two kilometers of like single smooth, single to double track that you can actually run nice on.
00:10:48
Speaker
Um, besides, you know, a K at the start on the road, like the whole race is, it's, it's just exhausting. Like it's super technical, super rocky, everything's always changing. And I think being able to spend time here beforehand really meant that I was able to feel comfortable here.
00:11:05
Speaker
um technical stuff is, is not usually something I've been very good at before. And so I really had worked hard this whole year and then put a big focus when I came out here to, to get on the trails as much as I can.
00:11:19
Speaker
Um, and that meant, um, basically by the end of, by kind of the week before the race, I was feeling really comfortable. i was feeling really smooth. I knew the whole course, um,
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that that was a massive contributor to how i was able to run in the end. Can we go from the beginning? Can we start? um Well, let's even take a step back. You knew you race this race, and I'm sure you would have known that few of your teammates have done the rate of race or raced in Cape Town before.
00:11:51
Speaker
What were your questions to them? before you even made the trip and you knew you were going to start training for this race? It's like, hey, guys, I know you've raced it before. What should I be doing now three months before the race that you could have done some back home in Canberra?
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah. Well, so first of all, we have some technical stuff in Canberra, but not heaps. We have a place called Mount Tennant. That's actually very similar to the trails here. The front side of Tennant, which is the trail, which is just all like basically jumping up rocky stairs the whole time.
00:12:22
Speaker
And that's essentially what this race is. um i Because obviously until you're here, you can't exactly see the trails, but you can get a good idea from...
00:12:33
Speaker
looking at like Strava segments, looking at the elevation plot. um I was using this app called Velo Viewer that a lot of cyclists use that can give really detailed elevation plots and you can kind of see ah how long the race is at certain gradients. and And from that, I kind of worked out this race has over 5K of over 35%. So like there is lots of really steep stuff in this course and there's not much flat.
00:13:03
Speaker
There is a lot of climbing, a lot of climbing over 20% and relatively a lot of climbing over 35%. um And so that kind of became a big focus, right?
00:13:14
Speaker
About four months ago when i started working with Scott, we my training changed a lot and we started doing focusing a lot on uphill. um Something I'm not super strong at is is quite steep climbing.
00:13:27
Speaker
I'm quite confident in my running, but it's the really steep stuff that has probably been a bit of a weakness. So i did a lot of ah lot of climbing, um both on like a lot on the treadmill, a lot outside, a lot of really steep climbing.
00:13:41
Speaker
in the last few months, um like almost thomas two and a half times what I have been doing. um So yeah, that was kind of the main training thing. um I've spoken to the team a little bit before I got out here, but like I said, you can get an idea of the trails, but until you can see them, all you can really do is plan a lot of other things um yeah like like for example it's i like to have a really good idea of this climb is going to take me 22 minutes it's going to take me 24 minutes if i'm slow it's going to take me 21 minutes if i'm having a good day and so i like to get here having all that knowledge in my head and then when you see the trails you already have the context for the race uh so that's kind of what i spent a lot of time doing before i came out here Staying on your training a little bit, Charlie, when you say doing a lot more climbing and two and a half times more, can you yeah like can you give us a bit of an an outline of what that actually looked like for your your weeks? Yeah, so um the structure of training with Scott is very different to like a standard kind of like marathon-based practice.
00:14:46
Speaker
trail training session. So like, like I said, we're doing uphill treadmill each week, which ended up being like basically an hour and a half of running at like 20 odd percent on the treadmill.
00:14:57
Speaker
Um, plus lots of like long tempos that were all specific. So like with some really steep climbs, really steep descents, um,
00:15:09
Speaker
like i'm sorry yeah With the descents, is he getting you to like purposefully attack them or it's just accumulate that that elevation change? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Like you have to, like the, um you have to purposefully hit those descents hard.
00:15:23
Speaker
um Cause that really goes a long way. And I think that's kind of the, one of the main things that slows you down, like learning to run better on climbs can speed you up, but it's the descents that can slow you down. And I've got a trail kind out the front of my house where I do my weighted hikes on and, you know, i do my 15 minute weighted hikes on the way up and it's quite technical. So then I'd kind of rip the way back down. Yeah.
00:15:46
Speaker
So spending time purposely on rocks, basically.
00:15:51
Speaker
Sorry to take this one step backwards, but this is Scott Johnson that is now your coach. um So you obviously have made that change from Blake coaching for quite a while. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
um i Before you go on, this is how you can tell Vlad didn't listen to the episode you were on last time. ah Yeah. just tar on but know indeed um Yeah. yeah in ah Yeah. After, after being Blake for kind of five years and to be honest, like I wouldn't be anywhere near the runner I am with Blake, like if it hadn't been for Blake, I mean,
00:16:25
Speaker
knock on wood, but I haven't been injured in since I've started running really. And that is a hundred percent due to Blake. Like Blake was able to develop, develop me so well. So, um,
00:16:37
Speaker
that I never jumped into a race I wasn't ready for. I never ran too far. I never did anything stupid and like I'm pretty stupid. So I would have done that if it a hadn't been for Blake. I'm really really lucky to have had that running. But yeah, since I've come over and started working with Scott, training has been a lot different and it's just really exciting to do have a different style of training. Which is obviously um a little bit more volume than what Blake could subscribe Yeah, a little bit more volume, um but just a very different style of volume.
00:17:10
Speaker
Like rather than going out, um obviously you're doing, we're doing classic intervals, but rather than doing four by eight and you kind of rip it really hard, which means your lactate gets quite high, which means...
00:17:21
Speaker
You have a little bit more like um acidification in your body, so then you don't recover quite as well. It's lots of very controlled, longer tempos, like lots of longer tempos, but everything is extremely controlled. Like we're taking lactate a lot, which like, you know, can see like, oh, that's a lot more. That's really boring. And,
00:17:41
Speaker
It's more scientific, but I really like it because it means I'm staying exactly in my zones. And by staying in these zones and working at the right intensities, it means I can do so much more work than I ever thought I would be able to do. And and work in terms of overall volume, volume of intensity,
00:17:57
Speaker
and elevation.
Training Changes with Scott Johnson
00:17:59
Speaker
And like Scott's known for ah essentially like not poo-pooing, but not not not really leaning into the the faster training, the stuff that would go closer to v o two star work that is pretty standard across the world in like typical coaching approaches. Have you felt like you you're getting suppressed in that top end or that lack of focus there is showing up in any way? Well, look, I can't really comment because I've done one four-month block um for a very specific type of race.
00:18:30
Speaker
And so who knows, maybe for Tara Weir, their style of training will change a little bit. But you obviously, we're still doing like lots of strides and really high intensity uphill work. So I'm still getting that explosiveness.
00:18:45
Speaker
It's just, I'm not going out and running six, eight by a K full gas kind of thing. Um, where I might do eight by a K and it's super controlled.
00:18:56
Speaker
And then ah the next day I'm able to do the same thing kind of thing. Um, So it's just it's just a little bit it's just a little bit different. And who who knows, maybe I'll get to a point and I say, i really feel like I'm lacking that top end speed, but I haven't felt like that at the moment. And in fact, I actually think my running is as good as it's ever been at the moment, like in terms of pure running. So yeah Do you think we'd ever get you in a 10K just to see?
00:19:20
Speaker
ah Maybe one day. To be honest, I just couldn't be bothered to do the training for it. you know like I'd rather ride my bike if I'm not training for trails. i'm not I'm not saying train for it I'm just saying just jump in and go for it.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah. It would be funny to get all the trail runners out there on a track one day and run a five or a 10. ah I was talking to someone about this actually on the weekend at GSER and kind of our comment would be it probably wouldn't be the prettiest site because a lot of like trail running gait isn't necessarily the most efficient thing on a track. Yeah. And it could be yeah could be an interesting one to watch. But it would be interesting. Yeah, it would be. I'd be pretty damn worried about racing flat if it were in a 10K, I reckon. can Yeah. And you get like, they we're going to race each other at a hundred K in a couple of months.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah. oh that's, that's good news. Yeah. It should be interesting. It should be fun. Um, Yeah, but anyway, going back to the race that you just did two days ago. Vlad, if I just have one quick question for Charlie, just finishing off the training talk, is there anything you think like the general person listening to us, like the mid the pack, training, doing their normal week, there anything that you feel like you've learned from Scott's training that would really work for them?
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, don't run so hard. Like... It's so, you know, it's so easy to go out and you're like, I've got my session on a Tuesday. I've got four by five minutes and I want to go full gas and I want to finish like I've just done footy training and feel absolutely destroyed. but I think,
00:20:49
Speaker
you know Maybe there are times when you need to do that, but but really what gets you fit in terms of running and ultra running specifically is the accumulation of work. And if you run slightly lower intensity than you would normally run, that means the next day you can have a really good run and then you can back up for a good session in a couple of days.
00:21:07
Speaker
so By just being a little bit more considerate. And it is really it is really hard to do. And I find a lot of people really want to go out there and run quite hard because, you that's a nice thing to do and it feels good. but But controlling your intensity just a little bit, I think, goes a really long way.
00:21:27
Speaker
A quick break in the show to thank Bix. Bix has just come out with their 30 gram gel in two brand new flavors. This is a new gel, new flavors. You've got the choice of the salted strawberry or the berry. The salted strawberry is also packing 300 milligrams of sodium as an increase, whereas the berry has 200 milligrams. Both make them perfect for the conditions we have in Australia, yeah whereas most gels on the market do not have sodium within them. What Bix has done here is take the recipe for the gels that work so well, that 1.8 ratio, that is very, very friendly on the stomach and added a soft, subtle, but very tasty twist that you can dial in your race day and your training nutrition to that extra fine detail.
00:22:07
Speaker
As you know, Bix has been supporting the show from the start and it literally helps keep the podcast coming to you every week. So if you want to support the show, level up your own nutrition game, head over to the Bix website, use our brand new code PEAK, P-E-A-K for 20% off at checkout. And with that, let's get back to the show.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think now we can jump on into the race. If you can kind of break it down as in like morning of the race, kind of going into the the start of the race, how did that all go for you? Yeah, I think the week leading up, I really tried to prepare mentally.
00:22:43
Speaker
I think a lot of times I've come into a race and just been like, I'm excited to race. I'm going to try you know, race my hardest, be aggressive. But I really tried to purposefully write down, um, how I wanted to feel about certain sections and, um, kind of the mental thing was something i I was really cognizant of this whole race. I wanted to be able to be strong, not let my mind kind of beat me down, which has happened a lot before. Like, I think I've had bad races where I've just convinced myself I was running terribly and then I ran terribly.
00:23:19
Speaker
and So kind of like staying mentally switched on and and being mentally flexible if things didn't go well was something that i i i really wanted to be prepared for. So i did. I spent a lot of time, ah you know, doing a lot of writing and and thinking and lucky enough to work with a sports psych through Terex. He's not out here, but um just talking to him kind of into the race.
00:23:42
Speaker
And so race morning, I felt really calm. um I knew the course. And I was just excited to race, to be honest. um I just wanted to see, like, i still I still think my level is changing quite quickly.
Mental Strategy for Chaotic Race Start
00:23:56
Speaker
and And so I wanted to see where my level was. And so I was just excited to do that.
00:23:59
Speaker
um Where, yeah, having the team here is awesome because, like, you know, a lot of people get quite stressed before a race, but, like, Robbie Simpson's the most chill dude you'll ever meet. So, like, we were down at this soccer oval before the race, just, like, absolutely taking the piss.
00:24:13
Speaker
um And that, you know, had me super excited to get going. Um, and also being like, it was a pretty low stress race start, which was also another quite nice thing.
00:24:24
Speaker
Um, like there's a lot of people around as, as always. And it's, you know, very anxiety inducing, but, um, we kind of had our own little Terex bubble and I was ah like on the line talking shit with Robbie and Josh and like, yeah and Bianca and Kimi, like the other team.
00:24:41
Speaker
So that kind of made me like, I was really comfortable before the start of the race. And I think that goes a really long way. Like if you start all pent up and all stressed, it's hard to get in the flow of things and let yourself relax, which you need to because it's such a long time. So I was able to do that quite quickly, which, yeah, i think I think really contributed and really helped. And going into the race, did you have a plan in the way that I'm going to stay under this heart rate for a set of... Yeah, I can't... I won't talk about it heaps, but um one of my friends, Daniel Green, who's a ah he's a physiologist and he's a really good runner from Canberra, he's helped me out with...
00:25:19
Speaker
with like a little bit of kind of a race strategy in terms of like um a bit more of a pacing strategy kind of thing. But like that in in um kind of collaboration with looking, yeah, at the race and like kind of my own physiological, like going, yeah, going through my training being like, where are the best levels to to run for these certain climbs?
00:25:43
Speaker
And so I knew how I wanted to pace it, but I also wanted to race. um I wanted to put myself in the best place at in the first, you know, hour and a half, two hours to be able to... Like, my goal was the podium and I wanted to put myself in a place to be on the podium. um And the race starts off super technical. Like, you're on a road for a little bit and then you basically spend 20 minutes, like, jumping over boulders. You know when you're on the beach and they have, like, you know, a stretch of sand and then a headland that's just boulders?
00:26:14
Speaker
Like, we were going around that for 20 minutes. It was ridiculous. And there were so many people around. I was... like trying to elbow people out of the way to try and like stay behind Robbie. It is sort of chaotic because basically like you get off this boulder section and then you've got a six minute really steep runnable climb before you go on ah a road for five minutes. And then you have a 20 minute really steep climb. And I wanted to be, i wanted to get onto that road in good position and I wanted to make sure I was behind Robbie. So I could start the big 20 minute climb in, in the best position basically is what I wanted to get to. So I just had to make sure I was like, it was, it was chaotic across there. It was like elbows and like head butting people. And like, you'd come into a trail, people try and to overtake you and of like push and blast.
00:26:59
Speaker
So that was like, that was really fun. It felt like back in my cycling days. Well, aside from that bouldering section where you turn into a boxer, were there any other points in that first 90 minutes, two hours where you just went kind of screw it, I've got to hold on here. I don't care what the heart rate says. Well, a little bit. That first five-minute climb was kind of full gas. Like, I think I looked back and we did something like 305 or 310 gap for that little section, which was kind of crazy. And looking back, like, I would probably never do that again.
00:27:29
Speaker
But I think at the start at the start of a race, you kind of just got to put yourself in that position. um Then we've got this flat road section. And then there's this 20-minute climb. And it's 20 minutes...
00:27:43
Speaker
to the top and half of it is a literal rock climb. Like I'm talking, it's not, Oh, there's a bit of rocks. that You've got to scramble up. Like, like it's a rock climb. At one point my black foot was like above my head as I was like jimmying myself up, you know, ah couldn't, ah yeah it's ridiculous climb.
00:28:01
Speaker
Um, and basically like I was running with the group, there was four of us there, but I just like, I couldn't keep up on these, these rock climbing sections. Um, Like the running was fine. The running was easy.
00:28:13
Speaker
Even that yeah it was like 30%, but we were still jogging it and it was okay. But these like climbing seconds, like I just couldn't keep up. And the guy, Johannes, the German guy, like at one point I was, I was in front of him and I'm like trying to rock climb up the main line.
00:28:29
Speaker
And I think he's like a proper mountain dude. So he just like fully like spiders up beside me on the rock face. And I'm just like, all right, I can't do that. And I ended up but just letting them go because I was like,
00:28:40
Speaker
If I, I could probably try to keep up on these like rock climbing sections, but it's going to be too stressful. Like um now I'm not going to be able to climb them clean. So I kind of just like let them go and then ended up running my own pace to the top.
00:28:53
Speaker
um And so I went over a little bit at the start. Like I probably went, yeah, a little bit hard. um because I ended up catching them on the downhill after that, which again, I probably ripped a little bit too much.
00:29:05
Speaker
um But I think in the end, it's like the first hour and a half of a race usually is quite uncontrolled um if you look at a lot of races. So I think that's kind of a decision you have to make, at least in a ck you know ah at least in a five-hour race.
00:29:20
Speaker
Was there an element of panic when you were trying to catch up on downhill or just natural speed? No, no, no. I was super relaxed. Like I was happy to be running by myself, but I just kind of, I saw them over the top and now maybe a minute and a half ahead. And it's quite a long, it's maybe like eight or 9K of downhill before you have 2K along the flat and along the beach. And I was just running really well.
00:29:43
Speaker
um So I ended up kind of, Yeah, bridging across two them. um It was super windy. So I think maybe they weren't going full gas, but i probably i probably moved a little bit too fast on that downhill in the end.
00:29:58
Speaker
um But I felt good at the time and i don't think it came back to bite me too hard. Plus then I came into the first aid station with the group of four and I think mentally that was...
00:30:09
Speaker
like really good to be like, all right, I'm in this race. You know, we have a separation to like some ridiculous runners, like Peter Frandt, Jeff were all behind. And I was like, I'm i'm in this race now.
00:30:21
Speaker
Now I can focus on actually working out how to get on this podium. Um, you know because I'd gotten through that first section with the front group. So, yeah. And you're still at that moment thinking, okay, I've got to keep fighting to get on the podium. It's not so much like worrying about who is behind you. Yeah, i was de the whole race i was worried about and who was behind me because, um I mean, yeah, just Peter Frano. Yeah.
00:30:47
Speaker
He's one of the best runners in the world and so is Jesh. um And then there's a bunch of these other guys. Like there's a guy who's won comrades three times who was in the race. um This other guy, Daniel Klaassen, who's top five at CCC.
00:31:00
Speaker
um Just a bunch of really good dudes that, Actually, basically ended up pulling out of the race for DNFing. But the whole time I was cognizant of, I know there's people behind.
00:31:13
Speaker
And if I do anything stupid in the first four hours of this race, I am going to get caught in the on the last climb. So that was something I really had in the back of my mind.
Mid-Race Challenges
00:31:24
Speaker
um Yeah. And from that section, i'm guessing you were about 25K in or so this point? Yeah. No, it's like 15K in in the first hour. Like, you don't move too fast in this race. Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, then we have this other, this second long climb um that we all started together.
00:31:42
Speaker
And that's when I saw Robbie make a move. um And I was just like, I want none of that. Like, I have no right to be climbing with Robbie Simpson. So I'm just going to sit back a little bit.
00:31:53
Speaker
And i kind of let the four of them go um thinking like I might not catch Robbie Simpson. but Kane who's a aedass guy from Terex runner from out here.
00:32:06
Speaker
um Like I think if things go well and I'm not stupid, I can catch Kane. And I, in my head, I was like, I'll definitely catch this Johannes guy, like German. I was like, you know, he's ah no one's ever heard of him before. He's like a 20, he's won a couple of 20 K races.
00:32:21
Speaker
I'm like, he'll definitely come back. So, so yeah, sitting back on that climb was kind of the move. Plus, I knew after that there was a little, of some some more running sections, like from 20K to kind of 30-odd K. um Not super good running, but still some running. So I was like, once I hit that section, that's going to be me. Like that's where I'm going to be able to put in a lot of time and catch a lot of people. And I wanted to make sure I got there like ready to to get moving. Yeah. I just had a quick look at Johannes' past results and like there are some good scores from an itch perspective but like there's nothing nothing notable that would think oh yeah this guy's going to beat Robbie Simpson by what was it 20 minutes? So seven minutes.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah, no, he was a killer. Yeah, it turns out he's like done some gnarly mountain FKTs in Germany that are like basically climbing routes almost.
00:33:16
Speaker
um But the whole time, I was like, thra i was like who's this kid? you know like I expected to be up here running with Peter or Josh. um But man, he was so strong. He was so strong. What point or did did you know at any point that Josh and Peter DNF'd?
00:33:32
Speaker
No, i didn't know the whole time. And it's the last, and to not just skip too far forward, but the last 8K of the race, you can see heaps far behind you. and I was like, kept looking back.
00:33:44
Speaker
I wasn't moving super well. And I'm like, one of these guys is going to come for me. I was confused as why they weren't there. Josh ended up having a pretty bad ankle roll. I'm not sure what happened to Peter. um Peter to kind of got dropped quite early. So I think maybe something was wrong with him because he wouldn't usually get dropped on a five-minute climb.
00:34:02
Speaker
um yeah So, yeah, I couldn't really see anyone behind me in the end. Yeah, I've actually seen Peter struggle in Hong Kong as well. Like he came in.
00:34:14
Speaker
I think probably two years ago for like a late year, like end of the year race and he struggled as well. So yeah, maybe maybe think after that trip to Australia... Yeah.
00:34:25
Speaker
I think especially this race here, a lot of people, like a lot of international runners go, oh, it's an end of year, 50, They look at the times, like 11 hours for the 100 and five and a bit hours for the 50. They're like, oh, you know, it might be pretty low level. can come out there and get an easy win, tack it on to the end of the season. But you you can't you can't do that. Yeah.
00:34:46
Speaker
it's hot here it's gnarly you need to know the trails so i think that's kind of the benefit of one the south africans and two the people that can spend the time here So take us back a step to kind of that that, I guess, third quarter of the race.
00:35:02
Speaker
At that point, are you feeling? Like, is the confidence there that you the podium is still realistic? Yeah, I'd started quite early. ah i think it was the big, like, climbing moves on the first climb basically meant that I felt like I was about to cramp for pretty much three and a half hours of the race. Like, you know, when you're in that spot where it's like, if I take one wrong step here, if I do one, like, jump, I'm going to cramp.
00:35:24
Speaker
I felt like that for so long and that was quite frustrating because, um I actually think like aerobically and muscularly, I could have ran quite a lot faster on this course. Like, I think I probably left 10 minutes out there maybe, but I just, because of this like feeling of cramp, it's like, I can't, I can't push. And maybe that was a good thing. You know, maybe that meant that I was able to keep that same kind of intensity the whole way.
00:35:48
Speaker
um But as soon as we got down there and I started running, like I just, I felt pretty good. And I knew the course really well. at Like that third quarter is literally out the front of our house.
00:36:00
Speaker
um And I'd run it like three or four times. um and So I knew I would have a, like I, that was what I told myself I was going to have a good section on. Like I just convinced myself if I can get there and I can run,
00:36:15
Speaker
I can run as fast as anyone through this, um, basically 20 to 40 K like I can run as fast as anyone on that section. and and And that's what I was telling myself at least.
00:36:27
Speaker
And so, I just like yeah just got running basically and felt really good through there. Plus, I'd just overtaken Kane, so I was in third. and Mentally, that was really nice.
00:36:39
Speaker
um and I just started like getting to work because I was trying to i was like expecting that I would maybe be able to catch Johannes. I had obviously had no idea what was going on in front, but I was like, if things go well here, i can...
00:36:54
Speaker
you know buffer from behind to make sure they can't quite catch me and then I can start working on whoever's in front. um and so I had quite a good section through there. Plus, it started getting hot. so It was tough, but that's where I kind of did a lot of good running, I think. Were were there any sort of changes to the plan, nutrition, hydration-wise, that you made when you started to feel those cramps coming on?
00:37:13
Speaker
um I started drinking a bit more. My nutrition um no i went really quite well the whole way. like I ripped... quite a lot of carbs um and that was never an issue.
00:37:27
Speaker
i started towards the second in this second half and especially last third of the race, I drank a lot of water. um But then the cramps never really went away, which is kind of a shame. um But yeah, I think nutrition was pretty smooth throughout the whole race. of that was kind of good. You kind of alluded to already, but there's a big climb before the final descent to kind of finish off the race.
00:37:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it's kind of blockhouse. So it's like 10 minutes, but it's the steepest thing you've ever seen. Like, it's ridiculous. It's steep and it's just loose rock. So you can't, like, ah Robbie and i tried to run up it inclining in climbing, in training, and, like, you can barely run it at all, and let alone when you're, like,
00:38:10
Speaker
I don't know how the milers or the hundred K do it. I seriously don't know how they get up it because it's crazy. It's like the kind of climb where you just want to go. I just want to stop. Like, I just don't, I just don't want to do this. I just have no interest in coming up this climb. So, but you know, you're kind of in a race, so you have no other option, but yeah, I was like, it was really frustrating because, because I was on the verge of cramping. It's like, I actually felt I was hiking really strong up it, but I was like, if I hike too fast, like if I go one step faster, I'm just going to cramp.
00:38:39
Speaker
Um, And so, yeah, but like I said, it's only a 10-minute climb. And then from there, you feel like you should be finished in the race, but it's 8K of like this contour path that slowly climbs for about 4 or 5K.
00:38:54
Speaker
it's Yeah, it's it's mental it's pretty brutal along there. And it's likechic it's still technical and it's windy. Yeah. But i was I was running okay. ah Like any running sections were still going really, really well. It was just the technical stuff that I was just ah moving a little bit slower on in that in that kind of second half, that last bit. And I'm guessing that last bit you were on your own completely. Like couldn could you see anyone in front of you? No, I couldn't see anyone in front of me. I couldn't see anyone behind me. um i had a camera runner, which was quite nice because it feels like you have like a little bit of like company. Yeah.
00:39:29
Speaker
But it was pretty it's pretty grim through there. Like, it's just like the race is pretty much over. I was trying not to let myself, like, be happy yet. I was trying to not to let myself be like I'm on the podium. I was still trying to fight for it.
00:39:42
Speaker
um But it was yeah, it's pretty, there was not many people out there. Plus, it's super windy up there. So, um yeah, basically until and there, until the finish, I was just trying to tell myself, like, stay switched on.
00:39:55
Speaker
um One thing I was super proud of is, like, I didn't roll my ankle once in the whole race for probably five hours and 20 minutes. And then the last sec, you come on, you come off this trail, go on the road, and then you have two and a half K to go on this last section. And it's, it's on like fire roads, basically past section called dead man's tree. And then all of a sudden this fire road becomes the most ridiculous thing you've ever seen in your life. Like there is just rocks, little rocks, big rocks. So there's no way you can actually run. There's no smooth section.
00:40:26
Speaker
and After not having rolled my ankle the whole race, I rolled it about six times in the last two k and I was like, I'm so ready for this race to be over. and All I'm doing now is rolling my f freaking ankle.
00:40:40
Speaker
it's I'll but'll be honest, listening to you talk, you're not selling it from an experience. perspective like yeah did you like Looking back at it from a ah race, is it a race you would go back to?
Future Racing Plans in Cape Town
00:40:54
Speaker
Oh, 100%. It's so beautiful here. The people are so excited about the race. um it's ah It's so beautiful. I actually can't... like Where I'm sitting now, you can see Table Mountain. You can see all these other little... little rocky peaks and then the ocean like it's gorgeous here it's amazing the trails are they really are beautiful and it's like a completely different challenge like it's not a running race you know it's it's a completely different race of like a true true trail brutal trail race um and like i definitely like i'll be back here next year i i really like i said i think i can run ten fifteen minutes faster and i really want to do run 10-15 minutes faster here so
00:41:36
Speaker
like definitely make the trip out here it is it is amazing and how does it feel now that you put like a good result on the board um after getting that added as sponsorship because obviously it's a big sponsorship um i'm sure a bit more pressure does that feel like you know you've delivered a little bit you know you can relax a little bit um yeah was it i'm i'm i'm over the moon it's it's um Yeah, like, it's it's I have so many so much, like, imposter syndrome here being on this team, running with, like, Robbie and Jesh and, like, Ruth and Tony McCann, like, all these, like, literal superheroes of the sport. and
00:42:15
Speaker
so many times I'm like, what am I doing on this team? I've just had a couple wins in Australia and, like, that's really it. um And so to be able to, like... contribute to the team in in giving them a podium, which is like, you know, that's our KPIs is podiums basically. So to be able to to do that is is really special. And I'm not like where I i need to be yet.
00:42:39
Speaker
um I still have a really long way to go, but I've proved to myself and I think I proved to others now that like I can i can be on the podium in those races. Like I can do quite well. And yeah,
00:42:50
Speaker
as As time goes on, I will. um Like, I wasn't expecting this this year. Obviously, it was i wanted it. Like, I wanted to get a podium this year, but my whole goal for this year was to get, one, get comfortable with the team, two, get comfortable travelling and racing, which travelling and racing something I'd really struggled with before.
00:43:12
Speaker
um And, yeah, to have a successful result in in my first 10 months, eight months ah of being in the team is is is awesome. And then now for next year, like I feel so, like I'm so ready to ta go and and cape keep hopefully getting some more results. youve said talking yeah And talking about the future, obviously, like we talked a bit about your strengths being a bit more runnable courses. um This was outside your comfort zone in many ways and you still did really well.
00:43:45
Speaker
What are your thoughts about, the future races obviously you got Tarawera 100k but post that are you going to stay on those runnable trails a lot of those US races that are a bit more runnable which I guess Adidas has a lot of good athletes that are doing those kind of races or are you going to go a little bit more technical a bit more mountaineer traily kind of races Um, yeah, well, so obviously I've got Tara Weir next, which is a running race.
00:44:13
Speaker
Um, but then I actually think next year I'm going to do quite a few big mountain races in Europe. Um, not decided yet, but probably, yeah, some bigger ones. I, like, I want to I want to, I want to be a ah well-rounded trail runner. Like,
00:44:33
Speaker
to be able to do a race like UTMB, you have to be able to run, you have to be able to climb, you have to be able to run fast downhill. um and And I want to be well-rounded in in all of that. So that's probably what I'll continue to work on. Like, after Terry Weir, I'll probably be on the poles running up long climbs for most of the year. um Yeah, like ah like you, to be be a good runner, you have to be kind of good at everything. And that's what I...
00:44:58
Speaker
want to be able to do. I don't want to feel like I have a weakness in in any situation. i don't want to feel like, oh, I'm going to get dropped on this type of climb or this type of descent, you know? Yeah, but then also I feel like the sport is becoming so professional that you almost have to kind of focus on one of the two.
00:45:15
Speaker
And one of the two, I mean, like all the very runnable trails, like, you know, like, um like tarawara and races like that or are you going to go a bit more technical obviously some of the greatest runners obviously can do both um yeah for sure yeah like yeah it's like almost like you have to choose one or the other yeah but i think obviously like i have no interest in sky running like that yeah in terms of that kind of technical stuff like i'm not a climber i'm not like a high mountain guy um but
00:45:47
Speaker
to win to to do a race like ccc you have to be able to run and you have to be able to be good at everything and that's kind of the goal is to be able to run a race like western say i think like yes there are silos but i think you're not siloing a western states and a ccc or utmb like the same person can do well in both of those races and but to do that you have to have a wide array of skills um it's like a football player you know like Yes, like someone playing in the guts, like doesn't need to kick goals, but it's beneficial if they can kick goals or if they're if they're stronger and they can win one-on-ones and be fast. Like you have to have a wide array of these like abilities.
00:46:31
Speaker
And that's kind of what I'm developing now. While I have the space to develop and the time, I'm going to be doing as much of that as I can. Do you think you're going to be over in Europe for a significant part of next year? Yeah, probably.
00:46:44
Speaker
um Through the middle of the year, I will. We've got to go over to Germany for team camp and stuff at the start of the year, but probably a couple, maybe three or so months, I'll be over there. Yeah. um yeah Where are you at with uni at the moment? um At the moment, I'm like,
00:47:02
Speaker
I come, I'm in Australia for my semester and then I leave is is basically how it's working. I try and avoid having to travel during the semester. I'm going to have to do that next year, like in the first semester.
00:47:14
Speaker
um But it works it works out pretty well. I'm pretty lucky. i'm I'm very lucky with how our uni is. It means I can spend three months in Europe or America in the middle of the year and doing races.
00:47:25
Speaker
um And basically I had my last exam and then, flew out here like the day after. So um yeah, I just am making it work for the moment. With GPT, one of the talking points before it was being part the World Trail majors, Cape Town is obviously
World Trail Majors Discussion
00:47:43
Speaker
one as well. It kind of rounds out the year. Did you feel much of a presence or much of an importance placed on the fact that Cape Town is a World Trail major? I think the World Trail majors are really, I think they're great. I think they will be a massive thing in the sport, especially being the short trail. After having a good result here and knowing I'll come back next year, I kind of did think, like, where can get on another start line to maybe make a bit of money? Because there is a little, there is a good bit of money if you can get on the podium there.
00:48:11
Speaker
um If I can wont fit that into my season, I i definitely will. um it's not ah It's not a huge focus for the team, but I think, like the prestige, the prize money, and like they're just awesome races. you know, the independent races are great. So I will – that is something I'm definitely considering for Nick when I'm picking my races for next year.
00:48:33
Speaker
do Do you feel like it does have prestige yet? Yeah, I think so. And I think it will just continue to grow. I think it will. yeah um every Every year Vlad. yeah sorry glad I know. I was going to say, talking about next year, any any plans of going back to Transvolcania? Not Transvolcania.
00:48:53
Speaker
I really i do want to go have another good race there. but I'm pretty scarred from that race, to be honest. um so i think ah But I think I'll do another race ah probably around here. I'll be in Europe around that time.
00:49:08
Speaker
So I'll be doing another race then probably. Yeah. And Tarawara's end of Feb, we're talking end of November right now. What will you do next? Will you shut it down for a little bit or are you going to be pushing all the way through Tarawara? No, I'm really excited. Obviously, I need to recover from this race first.
00:49:26
Speaker
um But i'm I'm really excited to get running, basically. And and I think the block for Tarawara is awesome. There's no better place to be training for, like, rolling trails in the heat than around, like,
00:49:41
Speaker
where I live, you know, I'm um'm so just super excited to do heaps of running over the next few months. um So yeah, I'll be kind of ripping st straight into Parraweira and then we'll probably take a little bit of time off maybe after that.
00:49:52
Speaker
Yeah, cool. Vlad, any more questions for Charlie on Cape Town? No, it was good. I think that definitely like, you know, chatting with Charlie now is seeing how more professional like, you know, he's taking it all, which is cool to see. and And I think it's cool that we get like, you know, a listen from somebody that is pretty connected to the top elite of trail running right now. And um yeah, just getting a a feel to how you took the race and how professional it is. Even when he was saying like, oh, six minute climb, I was like, wow, that's very, very specific. Yeah, feel that same thing. Yeah. So I think we're pretty lucky that we do get that connection now to some elite trail running. um
00:50:34
Speaker
runners and and yeah thanks for sharing that race but yeah i think i think of all my questions were answered is not doing transvolkania um which i am a bit disappointed because that's my all-time favorite right and yeah i just can't wait for somebody to beat um blake's result there so that's what i'm hoping for I think it's going to be a while before someone does that. Blake's run there is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. definitely think probably one of the best Australian results that we've had. But it was just before the time that trail running was, know, big in Australia. So, yeah, definitely a massive, massive result that we probably might never see done again.
00:51:17
Speaker
Yeah. I wouldn't say, i wouldn't say never. I have a feeling we might be seeing some, some cool stuff coming in the next five years or so. I think there's like, I was just going through ittra and looking at index results from like the past few races and just seeing the level has clearly stepped up. I know that go back to Buffalo 22 for myself. I think I scored like an eight, 10 or something. And that put me in 10 or 15 for the year. That is like,
00:51:46
Speaker
average now. It is like Hayden Barnett at GPT in the stage race, three out of the four days was above 8.15. And so, and hey Hayden is a great runner, but Hayden can also be a lot better, can be even better than where he is right now. So it's cool to see like that level is increasing. Now maybe it is increasing worldwide as well. So like we're kind of at the same point, we're just higher at the same point, but it is, it's exciting, it's exciting me about the prospect for both the men and the women's in Australia.
00:52:12
Speaker
and what we can do once we start getting ah maybe a bit more access, get used to the travel more, have the the whole field is leveling up. So maybe when we do go across that competition level, the level is more similar. ah Charlie, just question one one more question on that. I've got your ITRA indexes on here. That's what World Trade Manager predominantly uses.
00:52:32
Speaker
Without saying what the numbers are, maybe you know them, but where would you rank that result across the races this season? So you've got Buffalo, Transvolcania, Broken Arrow, Hounslow, and then Cape Town. Where does that rank for you? um i think that's probably it's probably the the best race, like the best ultra I've i've put together.
00:52:53
Speaker
um the i think Hounslow actually ended up being quite good. um I was very happy with how I ran in Hounslow. um But to be to be honest, like there's a lot of there's a lot of time I left out there. i I probably should have ran a fair bit faster. Hounslow?
00:53:14
Speaker
No, here. he um So, like yeah, whilst... Yeah, I'm not too sure about the numbers. like ah I try not to look at them. I mean, obviously, you have to know them, but I don't look at them too much because...
00:53:26
Speaker
they're frustratingly inaccurate, you know? um So, yeah. but But I think this is this is a good run. it probably, I don't think it'll score super high, but it's also funny because this course changes every year.
00:53:41
Speaker
So, like, when Robbie ran five hours here, it was a 53K course with heaps less climbing. This year, even compared to last year, this year was course. I got 2,900 on my watch. So, like, two thousand nine hundred on my watch so like There's this course reroute every year and that's not really reflected in in the numbers per se, but that is what it is.
00:54:02
Speaker
One more question before we move on though. Talking about South African world champs, ah you is that something on your mind for 2027?
00:54:14
Speaker
I don't know yet. 2027 will be an interesting year. That'll be like the last year of my contract. So um definitely I'll be searching for some good results.
00:54:24
Speaker
um I would love i would love to to have a good run like for us Australia, up but I can't say yet whether that's like going to be a major focus for me.
00:54:35
Speaker
Yeah. There's as much as you can say, does Adidas put a big value on that? Because obviously you can't you can't represent your brand apart from wearing your shoes. So do they really care about your performance there or thinking about your contract, are you better to go to UTMB and win CCC? one win you know mean but Yeah. Look, a result at CCC is definitely going to go a very long way.
00:54:57
Speaker
um I think they it certainly matters. Obviously, like it's it's a world champs. It's a super competitive race, but it's certainly not a focus. Yeah. Yeah. okay Okay. I was just trying to find the... Do you guys know the dates in 2027? It's to October.
00:55:15
Speaker
Okay, cool. Well, at least it separates it a bit. So you do have the options to hopefully do do a UTMB and do it do a Worlds. Hopefully we see some updates to the team dynamics as well, as we've been speaking about. um Cool. Alrighty. Let's stop peppering you. It's basically
Reflection on Cape Town Racing Experience
00:55:32
Speaker
been a whole interview, Charlie. So i appreciate you... ah putting up with Vlad Vlad and I's questions on that one it's been it's been good to hear about it um I have there's there's a whole list more that I would like to but we have to get through through some news topics and results for the week so is there anything else one hour and just shoes I reckon yeah I think yeah yeah is is there anything else Charlie that you you would like to like you feel like reflect on from Cape Town or and anything that you think is permanent
00:55:57
Speaker
Um, no, not necessarily. Not really. Um, yeah, the support's been awesome since I've been out here and really makes me proud to be like, you know, part of Australia, part of Australian running.
00:56:08
Speaker
I like, I'm really, I'm really excited to to be able to like represent that. Yeah. I'm sorry. Does it feel like the rest of the world is taking any notice yet of Australian trail running? Well, I mean, Lucy came seventh at UTMB. So like the whole world is, is, is always taking notice of what Lucy's doing.
00:56:26
Speaker
Um, And, but I think, you know, maybe not, maybe not quite yet. Like we're all, we're slowly having these results that are really close. Like Mikey's canyons was like amazing, but it was really close. It wasn't some, it wasn't something yet that people are going to take notice of. And this is the same. It's like, it's not quite an amazing result, but it's just a pretty good result that people go, Oh, you know, that's an Australian.
00:56:48
Speaker
Cool. I didn't realize they ran over there, but so I think it will keep going, you know, as we, as we keep getting further and, um Yeah, the it's it's coming. It's definitely coming. Cool.
00:56:59
Speaker
All righty. Moving ourselves on. um News topic for
Adaptive Athletes in Trail Running
00:57:03
Speaker
the week. It's not necessarily ah a news item as such, but it's just something that I was made aware of at GSER on the weekend that then I've gone on a bit of a deep dive into. And we are definitely not the right people to talk about this in January.
00:57:17
Speaker
depth, but just to kind of bring it to attention. So at GSER this year, they brought in an adaptive athlete policy and trying to fight more for the like equity on trail, not just equality. so not just saying you can come and race, but actually set them up for success and offer, whether it's a different race, different distances. In this case, GSER turned their 56k into a relay race for the ah an adaptive team of four.
00:57:41
Speaker
And it was really, at the presentation, it was really interesting to hear Matt and Megan, the race directors there, talking about it and then the adaptive athletes coming on and talking about it. And they made it sound like it's a very much a, GSEI was in a bit of a unique spot where not many other events are putting forward an adaptive athlete policy and inclusion that is genuine and not just like a a token thing of like, okay, yeah, if you if you are an adaptive athlete,
00:58:09
Speaker
this is the criteria you have to meet to be able to come and do one of our our events. And so, first of all, I wanted to commend them because I hadn't really seen much about it. And the fact that it really hadn't crossed my mind much was pretty testament to how little it is put into the the forefront of the communication and how incredible some of the athletes are. Like one of the guys in the team,
00:58:29
Speaker
He's done UTA 100. He's training for it again. i think he's doing COSI as well. like These guys are, and he, can't remember the exact term for for what he has, but essentially he doesn't have a colon, so his colon is are replaced by a bag. And so like just do the consideration, just into his training, that had to relearn how to walk again. it was just incredible. It was incredibly emotional listening to it and created incredibly aspiring.
00:58:51
Speaker
But then I went on to a deep dive onto, okay, well, what do other leaders in the sport in Australia and internationally and internationally have? And went on to Kanani Mountain Run, who's known for being very inclusive. They have a big trail stewardship and women inclusion policies. Couldn't find anything on adaptive athletes. Went on to single track, same thing. I couldn't find anything on adaptive athletes and their inclusion.
00:59:15
Speaker
And so I went to UTMB, looked at their policy and they have a policy on it, which UTA and COSI do, but it literally, it comes across to me as um almost gatekeeping the event. So it's kind of, it's it's a bit tokenistic. It's like, okay, yeah, you can come and do it, but you have to meet these very strict guidelines. It it didn't,
00:59:33
Speaker
And again, i don't have the understanding to to really say this, but like if you were if had a hearing and impairment, that didn't classify. You had to hit certain IQ standards to be classified. um There was like, yeah there's all these things that meant made me think, well, if we think we want people to have access to the sport, why are we presenting these massive barriers? And when I was talking to Matt about this from GSER,
00:59:54
Speaker
His was very much like, hey, you tell us what what you need and we'll make it work. Hence the relay and if they needed need other stuff um to to make it there. Whereas, yeah, the UTMB one, and I use them because they're kind of the the biggest player in the sport. So they really do have an an impact. And looking at the the Pro Trail Runners Association, the PTRA, they definitely have guidelines and some statements that are much more about inclusivity. But it was just really highlighting to me at how We've gone for gender equity, which is awesome. And we've talked a lot about trail stewardship. And I know that UTMB definitely highlighted adaptive athletes that are taking part in the events, but actually what really matters being the local event directors, the ones that those people like adaptive people and anyone is gonna go and do more commonly. It feels like we're really missing that.
01:00:42
Speaker
um Yeah. yeah i um I agree. I think the like giving the space for for more people to join and contribute in the sport is amazing.
01:00:53
Speaker
um But yeah, it it would be it would be great to see to say yeah anyone else kind of come into the sport and anyone else can run. I think you're right in terms of like given the nature of the sport and and the nature of such a varying array of ah kind of different adaptive athletes um it it can really be person dependent and but you're right it's like we're almost not the people to like where it's important for us to talk about it but we're not the people that can really say too much because we don't have these experiences so um it's like creating the space from the races point of view to be able to listen and and then implement things that are going to help more people get into the sport i think is really important
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think that was my my main main thing is that we we have a literal mic and an audience here. And yeah, we don't we don't have the answers. i've Apart from spending a couple of hours looking into it today, like that's that's the the most context I have. But if you are an adaptive athlete or this is relevant for you, like we'd love to hear from you and say, shout out people that are doing it well, suggest what what might be done done better and what you what you need. Whether it's like, I know for UTMB, for example, you're only an allowed one guide, but that seems like a lot.
01:02:07
Speaker
ah to, to ask for. So, um, of that person to, to do. So yeah, just, uh, a, a conversation topic probably to depart for now, but if you are listening to this and you have, you have, yeah, you're an adaptive athlete or you have an opinion that you think is, is worth, worth sharing, please do reach out to us. Cause we'd love to keep this conversation going. and And personally, I want to learn a lot more about this, about how we can move the sport in an inclusive way for, for every section of trail runners.
01:02:34
Speaker
So, for sure and i think now's the time to start having the conversation you know so we can be more accepting of a lot of people and help bring the sport to a broader audience yeah definitely definitely All right, so we are going to move on to the results now. If you haven't noticed, I have been left to do the rest of this one solo. Unfortunately, Vlad had to jump off and Charlie's having some connection issues. So I'll go through the results. We'll skip the listener question for this week. So it's not just my opinion that you're getting. And then I'll go through what is coming up for the weekend ahead. So results wise,
01:03:11
Speaker
I'll start off with
Cape Town World Trail Majors Results
01:03:12
Speaker
Cape Town. the Obviously, Charlie was over here. He took third in the men's 55k. More importantly, we're kind of looking at the World Trail Majors.
01:03:22
Speaker
This was their final race. So, Sumayya Buddha took out the win in the women's field for the 100k. Jeff McGavro took out the win in the men's. Rebecca Cohn took out the win in the women's 55k. And Johannes Wingenfeld took out the win in the 55k men's, as we spoke about with Charlie. So overall, what that means is Caleb Olsen, GPT 100 champion. He won the overall long course in the men's for the World Trail Majors this season. And Sunmaya Buddha took out the women's. So that was the, she also won obviously the 100K. Cape Town in the short course, Zhaozhang.
01:03:53
Speaker
Also GPT champion in the 50k, she took out the short course and Xinjiang took out the men's 50k distance in the short course. Looking domestically, we had GSER. So GSER has quite a few events going on. 100 mile took hundred mile tick stepped back last year and it came back this year in a new course.
01:04:13
Speaker
Lisa Ryan took out the win in the 100 mile course and in the men's Mitchell Thornton took out the win in the 100 mile. Mitchell also, if you want to see an example of how to pace 100 mile, he looked like he did this like expertly and also also had Joe Dorff to pace him for the final, I think from Harriotfield to the finish, so about the final 30k or so.
01:04:35
Speaker
In the 50 mile fields, the women's was taken out by Gillian Turnbull. She had a great run to finish in 11.32.04. This is about 3,500, 3,800 meters of climbing in this. And Scott Baker, he took out the win in 9.56.20, both of them with quite quite comprehensive leads. Gillian came fourth overall in that field.
01:04:57
Speaker
In the 56k, the women's was taken out by Sarah Jane Miller. So SJ came back in 6.30.11. This is the first time we've seen SJ back on a course since Worlds, where she was the first Australian in the short course distance. this was great to see her on an event that's local to her. And in the men's, we saw Nigel Hill take out the win in 6.06.56.
01:05:20
Speaker
um I'll also go through the podium here, Tiang Min White 616.29 and Arthur Marshall 630.51. So that also puts SJ in third overall in that field. And then in the 28k, this was the most competitive race.
01:05:33
Speaker
GSCR isn't necessarily one that gets the density that we see at some of the ah other races in November like Ultra Trail Kosciuszko and GPT 100, but it was still really good to see some names on here. This is a very interesting course where you run from Harrietville all the way to kind of halfway to Dinner Plain. So it's about 31K this year with 2,000 meters of climbing, about 800 meters of descending.
01:05:52
Speaker
Patricia McGibbon also came back from Worlds. She won in 3.30.54. Emily Bartlett in 3.50.16, also coming back from Worlds. And then Laura Peel in 3.59.33. So a very, very impressive run there by Patricia. And then in the men's, Ian Best had a cracking run 2.54.22 that thirty k Brodie, he did end up racing. He came second in 309.58, just beating Toby Lang in 315.53. I know that Ian set a personal best from Harriotville up to Feathertop, which is day two of four peaks, which he was the overall winner of last year. So for Ian to set a PB up Feathertop and then continue on to do about another 20-odd K is very, very impressive. Elsewhere around the country we had the first series of the Adelaide trail running series so in the long course overall John Sugai took out the win in 126.07 and in the women's Jackie Staples took out the win in 135.53.
01:06:49
Speaker
Up in Queensland we had the i think it was round four of the southeast Queensland trail running series and was gonna say I could really love what these guys are doing we've been having bit more focus on the Queensland series and they've definitely got a very good community, a really nice focus and the depth of fields, the competition level seems to be really high. So I'll go through the the whole podiums for these because they're very close. So Andrew Day took out the win in the men's, 48-02. Nathan Lindsay second in forty nine thirty one and Brett third In the women's, Melinda Miller, 58.02. Georgina McDonald came second, 58.29, so 27 seconds back. And then Kelly Bobir took out the third in 59.45. So I know they're not the longest race in the world, but it's great to see that level of competition in both the men's and the women's races.
01:07:34
Speaker
Sydney Trail Series also was underway. This is race three for them. In here, the was won by Warren Rolf in 2.48.26. women's was taken out Jessica in 3.20.30. is Matt Blundell in 5.38. And then in the women's Tilly Richard in 1.03.18.
01:07:58
Speaker
eighteen the i said we'll move on from the listener question this week. We do have one from Kaz. We will come to it when there's not just myself left on the mic. And what's coming up, the big one is obviously Ultra Trail
Course Changes Due to Snow
01:08:12
Speaker
Corsicosco. So if you haven't listened to the preview that we did, it was Brody, myself and Kelly Angel.
01:08:17
Speaker
That went out on Monday, the week of the week we're we're releasing this one. Please do go and listen to that. There's been a couple of updates since from the field's perspective. um A few people have confirmed that they aren't running, but there's also been an update to the course. So for the 100 mile and the hundred k due to snow and the conditions are looking not to be wet, but to be cold, sort of highs of 7%.
01:08:42
Speaker
in Thredbo, quite strong winds and so the snow at the top of Mount Kosciuszko isn't going anywhere for the time being and due to runner safety they decided they're going to alter the course a little bit. So the runners will be going from Charlotte's Pass up to Kosciuszko and turning around and coming back down that same trail which is much safer trail than going around the back of the hill. The both distances do end up pretty similar i and they have a slight decrease in distance. The 100 mile they've done an extra out and back section just to make sure you definitely get one hundred and sixty k so definitely respect that. They also released some numbers on the field and there's 35 or more than 3,500 runners in this year's Oshkail Kosciuszko so it's good to see the event getting a big boom. Hopefully that all works really well for them and I think it just speaks to the the demand for UTMB, but they also said that there's only the 2,700 new runners to it. So a lot of new runners to the event compared to people that are are returning. And because I'm left on the mic for myself, I can say this, that James was the most popular male's name apparently in the field with 55. So it's a good name.
01:09:45
Speaker
um The only other thing coming up is the Heroes and Villains trail run over in the Yu Yangs in Victoria this this week. So as we sort of get towards summer, The races obviously begin to to to quiet down a little bit, which is closing out a very, very busy and competitive, I guess, October and November event. So it's been been great to see. It's been great to see some some very high quality performances, some much bigger fields as well. um I don't have the stat right in front of me, but I know that Cozzy is getting an increase in the female participation rate as well. And as we have already spoke about it would be interesting to see some information about the adaptive athlete participation rates as well and seeing if we are making a movement in there so again please do get in touch if that is relevant for you all right thank you so much for listening and sorry for the the rush through with the the results a little bit and being left with just myself on the mic for the the end but i do hope you enjoyed that conversation with charlie
01:10:41
Speaker
It's fascinating to see what Charlie is now doing.
Charlie's Impact on Australian Trail Running
01:10:43
Speaker
um Him alongside Lucy, and you probably say with Mikey DeMuentes as well, are the athletes in Australia that are really leading that that charge. Lucy's obviously been in there for quite a long time, but it's great to see some more names coming through. And it's also great to show...
01:10:58
Speaker
them as a community what we support them the investment that given them and hopefully we see that trickle through to more athletes from Australia being able to make that transition internationally and and inevitably that does also improve the professionalization of the sport over here a lot of things that we're talking about which has a trickle down effect all the way down to the grassroots whether you're front or back of the field again that's been episode 85 of the PPC's podcast we will catch you next week