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Piotr Babis: What Becoming King of The Hill Reveals About Endurance
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Endurance at the extreme isn’t built in a single race. It’s shaped over years of uncertainty, hard choices, and an ability to keep going when there’s no clear finish line.
In this episode, James sits down with Piotr Babis — two-time King of the Hill winner, Arc’teryx athlete, and one of Australia’s most quietly accomplished ultra runners — to explore the long path behind his 90-hour performance.
They dive into Piotr’s unconventional entry into running, his seven-year fight to stay in Australia, the mental and physical demands of backyard ultras, and why sleep deprivation — not pain — is often the true breaking point. The conversation also unpacks FKTs, self-directed projects, crew dynamics, and what it really means to test your limits without losing yourself in the process.
Whether you’re curious about ultra endurance, drawn to long-term challenges, or navigating your own uncertain path in the sport, this episode offers a rare, honest look at what sustains performance over time.
***Don’t forget, use code PEAK at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction and Achievements
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Peepershoot podcast. My name is James Sieber and today we are joined by Piotr Babis. Piotr may be a name that has hit some familiarity with you over the last couple of months because he just won for the second year in a row the king of the hill, taking home $25,000 and lasting hours on meter of elevation kilometer loop. Piotr came on to have a chat about that and catch up from the last time that he's been on. But this conversation went a lot deeper. It's fascinating the background that people come to the sport with and Piotr's coming out of Poland, not coming from a running background and really only finding it through his love for being in the nature and his consistent pursuit of seeing where his limit is and just being curious has led him to complete some of the most impressive FKTs in the country events like King of the Hill and sets the framework for what he's about to do in the future as well.
00:01:10
Speaker
This conversation with Piotr, as always, does not go where you're expecting it to go. Yes, it's fascinating if the King of the Hill is an event that you're interested in or any of the stuff that Piotr has done in the past, but just getting to to still down to what makes these people tick and how they get the most out of themselves when essentially everything is stacked against them to not be able to do that is truly remarkable and impressive. It's a conversation that I've taken a lot away from and I'm guaranteeing that
Journey into Running
00:01:35
Speaker
you will too. So with that, let's get to the episode with Piotr Bavis.
00:01:39
Speaker
Piotr, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you for doing this. Yeah, thank you. Looking forward to the your ah Your name is one that's been across my desk as such for for a while, but we've got you on mostly because of King of the Hill, but then going back through your history, it's been fascinating to see the extent of events that you've done and FKTs. And it's got me very excited to talk to talk to you today, just because i think that there's a lot that we can take out of it.
00:02:07
Speaker
We have had you on post Transcend 2024. You spoke with Jess and you're on with Erica Laurie back then. we kind of won't won't go too much and into that. But I do think it is is interesting your backstory because from what I understand, pre sort of mid 20s, you really didn't have much of a running background at all growing up in
Cultural and Geographical Influences
00:02:28
Speaker
Poland. Is is that correct?
00:02:30
Speaker
That's correct. i started training for the marathon pretty much from from zero when I was 23 and, you know, obviously learned a lot of lessons. Yeah, that wasn't a smart idea had to sign up for the marathon without any any prior training. i Yeah, I wasn't running at high school at all.
00:02:49
Speaker
I think when I was at the uni at 22, I did the 12 minute test and i i but I didn't even hit that's just to give you a bit of an understanding of how you know poor my running was. I mean, it's pretty good result, but obviously not for in the running world.
00:03:09
Speaker
you know world so Yeah, just ah picked it up and signed up for the marathon and then trained for the triathlon and ah from there moved to trail running.
00:03:21
Speaker
In Poland, now you look at the results, I was going back through the ah the World Champs results and Polish athletes, both men and women do do very well. Is there, growing up for you, was there much of a focus or attention on running and or trail running in Poland?
00:03:38
Speaker
Not at all. haven't heard about trail running when I was growing up and and the running itself wasn't wasn't a very popular sport. I also grew up in a very small place, so there was not many opportunities to train anything at all. so Um, yeah, that's, that's, I think running it's, it's still a new thing, but, uh, it, it picked up very quickly. And as you said, we have so many good athletes right now who can you know compete with the best.
00:04:04
Speaker
Do you put that down to anything? Cause as we'll get into, you are a very good runner. You've been on your national team. It have won some very very, very impressive events with fast times. Like, is there something about Poland and the terrain or the environment that you think is conducive to trail runners?
Racing Challenges and Visa Journey
00:04:20
Speaker
Um, Well, I haven't actually, I haven't run much in Poland because when I started running, I was, I was living abroad. Um, but I think the main difference is that the, the trails are just much more runnable. Australian and trails and specifically Tasmanian are very technical and and usually slow. They're not, uh, made for running. Um, I feel like Polish trails are, are just a bit, a bit faster.
00:04:44
Speaker
Okay. Interesting. Yeah. My only real awareness of Polish trails is in the Golden Trail series. that They went to Poland last year, I think the year before, and I think, yeah, well, the year got cancelled, but from what I can tell, it looked quite technical. So it's interesting to hear hear you say that.
00:05:01
Speaker
The Tatra mountains are very, very technical, but probably less technical than Tasmanian trails. um But there are so many other mountains with with much faster trails. and And the other thing is it's probably the weather. mean, it can get pretty hot in summer, but the races in in fall and spring, they they usually have pretty better much better racing conditions. and And also the competitiveness, I think that's something that invites a bit faster times.
00:05:32
Speaker
Okay. And you said you kind of got into trails a bit later on, you were in Canada, I think, at the when you sort of moved on onto that. Your first event was marathon. I know that when you turned 27, you did your first 100k. What was it about the the longer stuff that was appealing to you?
00:05:51
Speaker
It's just a challenge, just doing something hard. So I finished Ironman triathlon and was looking for something maybe harder. um It's also natural when you when you live in a beautiful place, you want to go, ah you want to reach those beautiful destinations. And it does require you to go for 50, 60K sometimes.
00:06:13
Speaker
um So it just kind of naturally came that yeah I wanted to do 100K and then next year, 100 miles. Okay, so you went up to 100 miles that next year? Yes.
00:06:25
Speaker
how How did those events go? ah The 100k went the pretty well. I
Work-Life Balance and Visa Impact
00:06:30
Speaker
think it was pretty consistent. I actually i actually wanted 100 miles was a bit harder. And i also didn't pick the best 100 miler. mean, it was beautiful. I was in in the Philippines, it was hardcore 100 miles. And that was 100 miles with 12,000 meters of climbing. um So it took me over 30 hours to complete it. It's pretty, pretty challenging.
00:06:53
Speaker
Setting a good framework for what for what you've you've ah now done. That's that on on the short short side. And then going from Canada, what brought you over to Australia? My visa was expiring Canada. I was looking for a new place to live. I was still curious about the world and want to go to a new place and look what opportunities do I have. um I want to go to New Zealand, which is pretty hard to get the visa. I managed to get a visa for Australia.
00:07:20
Speaker
And once I got the visa, I did a bit of a research looking for the best place for adventures and trail running. And seems like Tasmania was head old. So decided to come down here and spend seven years of my life here. Yeah, I need you were telling me offline, you've just had your permanent residency approved? Just yesterday after after seven years, that's incredible I got a granted after being told that it's probably not gonna go through by ah three different lawyers. um It's Yeah, so that's just a kind of adds a bit to my stubbornness. And yeah, but I managed to get down. So i'm pretty happy with it. um Something
00:08:00
Speaker
I don't have to think about it anymore because it's it's just not a good feeling, something hanging over your head that you know you might get that email that you have to leave the country in next 30 days. So it's a massive relief.
00:08:11
Speaker
yeah Congratulations. Has there been moments throughout the last seven years where you have had those visa questions that thought you had to leave? and Not so much that I had to leave. um like i usually it the last seven years I had to apply for new visa pretty much every year. um So that's it's kind of annoying and just keeping it extending. And then during COVID, the only reason I've been here for so long is is COVID really, because I was meant to go to New Zealand. But then COVID happened and there was a new visa introduced. So I was able to stay a bit longer meeting certain conditions. And last year um that options and ended. So I had to decide either I'm going home or I'm applying for the visa I apply for. I'm taking a bit of a risk. I had to spend quite a lot of money. And and so I decided to take a risk. And despite being told it's it's probably not going to go through.
00:09:04
Speaker
I applied for it and I was pretty happy gaining extra, gave me extra year. um But in September, I got to ask for medical. um So that that was a good sign that, you know, it's it's going the right way. So yeah, got to manage to get it.
00:09:20
Speaker
What visa have you been, like, what's been granted the permission on? Yes. Funny enough, I applied for a ah it's called Global Talent Visa. So I applied with trail running. So all those seven years I've been Tassie, I feel like it came together. All the people I met ah provided me the the reference letter, like letter of support. And I submitted all the articles ah from my projects, media coverage. So it all supported my visa, which is just kind of great and happy ending to that, my my Tasmanian story.
00:09:55
Speaker
That's quite incredible because you're an Arc'teryx athlete. You've represented your country last year at the Skyrunning World Champs. And as I said, you've got a list of very, very big results. Did you ever think that that was going to be the things that would allow you to keep to stay over here?
00:10:10
Speaker
No, that's why I'm just, it's it's funny how life turned out that, you know, all those things that I thought didn't have any meaning, like started doing some projects and then I got featured in ABC or even the podcast I've done in the past. I also submitted the link to the podcast I've done after Transcend with Jazz.
00:10:30
Speaker
So I think it all supported that application, which is which is great. Like, Yeah, it's just I think it's a good story and put all those pieces together. Yeah, it's an incredible process. I think most people listening to this won't ever have to go through that. But coming from the UK, I i did from a relationship visa perspective and the amount of information you have to provide. And it feels like your whole life is getting an autopsy. It's quite incredible.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, I do not recommend anyone trying to immigrate to Australia. I mean, that process is just this horrific and the amount of money you have to spend and you're you're not getting much support like I've none of my emails got replied to the immigration. I couldn't submit certain documents to my ah to my application because I reached the limit and yeah the whole process is just a nightmare. And obviously that hanging over your head thinking, oh, do
Balancing Passion and Profession
00:11:23
Speaker
i have can I stay? Can I leave? So it definitely feels much more rewarding once you unless you get it. And yeah, looking forward to the you know upcoming months and years because I feel like i really earned them. So it's a great feeling.
00:11:40
Speaker
And I think it's a sorry, i just one thought I had is probably that's a good metaphor to what I'm doing as well, because I feel like everything i had, I had to work really hard for and it was an easy way. so I think it's a good transition to to the king of the hill. Yeah, yeah they're definitely ah a testament to your resilience. And it's a good, good practice. As again, we were talking just before this started and looking back at the FKT as you've done and the other events that you've done.
00:12:06
Speaker
With an event like King of the Hill where you are out there, you won it this year in 90 hours, it ends up being about three times Everest of elevation, 370 odd Ks. And so much has to go in to create that kind of performance. It's not just being fit and being specifically trained to run up and down a hill for 90 laps. it's ah It's amazing how like a whole life experience can come together at points.
00:12:31
Speaker
From a work perspective, has the visa situation prevented you from doing the jobs that you want to do? Or because are you still working as ah a guide in Tasmania? I'm working a little bit as a guide. I'm mainly working as ah as a ranger um with Parks and Wildlife. So that's been my main job in the past three years. but Yeah, it's it's very restricted. So in order to get my second year, I had to work at the farm for three months. In order to get third year, I had to work six months at the farm. Then when COVID happened, if I wanted to to get a COVID visa, I had to work first at the farm.
00:13:06
Speaker
Then I had to work in a certain sector, which in my case was hospitality. um But yeah it was very restricted. And in terms of the location, the first few years, there was also a restriction that can only work six months for the employer. So...
00:13:19
Speaker
um Yeah, it's it's definitely not an easy life. You have to earn everything. Obviously, you don't want to complain because it was a mind decision and I knew those conditions, but it's definitely the government doesn't make it easy for you and in terms of like a career or, you know, just from a...
00:13:36
Speaker
doing the job you want to do. So and through those because so what sort of timeframe you've mentioned COVID? so when did you move over here? i moved 2018. Okay. And your running, has that ever dropped off during that period? Or you kept you kind of increasing your training the whole way through this?
00:13:57
Speaker
Training was pretty consistent and i'm I'm very committed. So, you know, even if I'm working seven days a week, 80
Training Philosophy and Mental Toughness
00:14:03
Speaker
hours or 26 days a month, I mean i'll always make sure to fit the runs in. Obviously, it's probably affected to a certain extent, and but it training has always been been done. So...
00:14:17
Speaker
um Yeah, that's that's one thing i'm I'm very committed to apart from work. um So happy I could you know keep it up. But yeah, definitely it's been affected if I'm working a lot.
00:14:29
Speaker
And that's been and mostly because of that visa situation and and in the past few years. And you know I was very fortunate to have jobs that I do enjoy. So it's a bit of that scarcity because I felt like I'm not sure how long can I do it for.
00:14:46
Speaker
So I just want to work as much as I could to take advantage of of those opportunities I had. I saw this in your one of your Instagram posts that you averaged 27 days a month worth of work and your work was predominantly on your feet guiding tours. And I was looking back through your your your Strava and seeing like the the length of hikes that you were doing, but then there was a run in the morning or there was a run in the evening.
00:15:09
Speaker
how like How were you able to manage all of that and not just get the training in, but actually recover and adapt to it? Yeah, I think the the hiking aspect, it's it's probably just adapt to a bit of ah to a base fitness. So it's usually at a pretty slow pace, but it's still with the pack. I'm you know treated as a recovery or just kind of like a easy easy training. and And apart from that, the runs had to be done you know in the morning or in the evening.
00:15:35
Speaker
it's It's not always easy when you're working sometimes 12, 14 hours and then, you know, have a training done and you don't have any flexibility because you don't have the next training coming up. um So it's it's sometimes a struggle, but, you know, it's it's pretty rewarding that, you know, get it done and at the end of the day, you feel like you you've done what you had to do. But again, it is not always easy.
00:15:57
Speaker
being committed to that is impressive but it makes me think like what what's driving you because king of the hill you took home 25 grand i think you did you get bonus as well for the fastest lap as well which blows my mind the fact that you managed to run the fastest lap and and also win win the thing but like money and winning is one thing but that often doesn't count for everything when you're tired and it's cold and you've been doing this for 10 years and you may be looking at like what's next or what's driving me. Like what what do you come back to in those moments of this is why I'm so committed?
00:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's that's a good question. It's a pretty ah deep question because I did have ah some, you know, and ah some questioning, especially this this year. I had a pretty good race in Tassie, but then and I went to the UTA and then went to Europe and I felt like the races didn't go that great. And you had a bit of a question like, oh, why am I doing it? Like i'm not going anywhere with it, but then you...
00:16:55
Speaker
ah pull out a race like a king of the hill and I feel like ah all that hard work pays off, you know, ah apart from the money aspect, which obviously is great to get get incentivized and and finally be paid for your hard work.
00:17:07
Speaker
I think it's just the satisfaction and um yeah that sense of achievement. Yeah. Yeah. is I find it interesting in my role in like interviewing and talking to, to a lot of like the the elites and the top athletes in Australia and just seeing actually what does
Diverse Training and Race Management
00:17:26
Speaker
drive us. And it's that, that sense of achievement, that curiosity, the the version of the self that we become when you're pursuing something.
00:17:32
Speaker
and you're committed to to to that journey. Is it something that that so suits all of us? um But it is like it is hard to keep yourself going and keep yourself interested in what you're doing. And it's one of the things that strikes me about looking at all of your results is that there's ah most things are ultra, but there are definitely things that aren't, but there's a lot of variety in what you've done over the years. And do you find that that that variety is something that does help you stay committed or is is interesting you?
00:18:01
Speaker
I think mixing up and ah being able to train in different places, I think that's what keeps it interesting. And one of the reasons that, you know, I still ah still doing what I'm doing. um You know, it's it's fun to do, you know, shorter races as a training and doing longer races and and but mix it up and do some really fun stuff and go into wilderness and, you know, just exp explore new places or or challenge yourself in ah in a different environment. So um Yeah, I do feel like that that helps a lot.
00:18:33
Speaker
It makes it more interesting and it's a good... ah that's The way I raised King of the Hill was was very similar. and I was not very consistent. i was doing different things. I was mixing the labs and I was doing fast labs, slow labs. was chatting to to other people.
00:18:47
Speaker
um So that's what allowed me to keep going, I think, for that long. Since we're on it, we might as well, let's talk about King the Hill and then I might go backwards after there and sort of frame how you managed to do that because that's really interesting. And to me, looking at the backyard format, it looks like obviously you you have and an hour to get through these laps and how fast you go depends on yeah and energy you want to save, how much time you need to transition, whether you're trying to sleep or something like that. But it sounds like you weren't necessarily taking that same or that degree of like, I guess, clinical approach to it, more sort of trying to keep it fun and variable. Is that correct?
00:19:28
Speaker
To a certain extent, there was a bit of a strategy. If I knew I wanted to to have ah you know a bit more food, I would do a faster lap or if I wanted to have a sleep. um But as you said, I was i was mixing it up and and doing different things. So it's a bit of strategy and a bit of just spontaneous thoughts and also depend on how I feel. Obviously, I didn't feel great. So if I if I'd say I wanted to do fast lap, but it was super hot, and I didn't feel 100% I wouldn't push and just listen to my body and know go for a bit slower lap and save the energy. And you won last year in 75 laps or you you drew for first.
00:20:11
Speaker
it was a different course this one by from what you have said sounds like this one was a bit more runnable but it had a bit think it's this one have more elevation in it it was a little bit slightly a bit more maybe if about 40 meters uh depending like the organizers said it was 300 to 320 meters of bird so that that means it's about you know 30 to 40 meters more than last year but it was longer for about k and it seemed like it's gonna be harder But personally, I think it was at least similar or maybe even a bit easier. Definitely for me, like more runnable downhill and a you know few flatter sections that have really soothed me. And I felt like it's even a bit easier.
00:20:53
Speaker
so did you feel that this year you could cover the laps faster or it was still a bit slower? ah Probably around a similar time. I think it was a bit similar. Although my fastest lap, I didn't go that hard on last year. at My fastest lap was 27. And this this year, i probably didn't run 100%, but I pushed pretty hard and I was under 22. So I kind of get a bit of an idea of, of but yeah, I think it's it's pretty similar. Yeah. And coming away from last year, which I'm pretty sure that was your first Backyard Ultra format.
00:21:29
Speaker
What lessons did you take away from it? And also what what part of you goes, yeah, that was fun. I'm going to do it again. There was not much thinking. I just signed up right away after after the the last race. I was like, oh, that's a good timing. I really like the atmosphere. And I mean, the guys came up the hill that doing a great job.
00:21:51
Speaker
The way they build up the event from you know scratch and in two years, they have so much interest. ah the The videos and the real search is next level. They actually make a documentary after two years, which will be screened in Melbourne this weekend. So it's it's really next level. And the amount of it's again, it's not about the money, but you know they they kind of um and like initiated that ah prize money, I think a little bit. And hopefully other races will look at it and maybe offer some you know more money to the athletes to award their hard work.
00:22:28
Speaker
um So, yeah, there was not much thinking. I signed up right away. i got to enter after last year and it's like yeah I want to be part of it. I want to challenge myself and hopefully you knowll win again. So, yeah, when it comes to the lessons, um well, definitely the crew aspect. Like last year I didn't have any. I did have a crew, but I was just When I started the race, I i wasn't even sure who was going to show up. There was few few people and a few friends who said they might come up, which which they did, but I was ready to go by myself. I i didn't have any any crew arranged. So the not a massive difference was having someone with me the whole time and those
00:23:07
Speaker
sometimes two or three people. So that was the main difference because this is it's really a team event. you You cannot go that far without crew.
00:23:19
Speaker
um yeah So that was one aspect and the sleep was the other aspect. I was able to sleep much more and um Didn't have any hallucinations this year. That's the difference.
00:23:30
Speaker
um And ah yeah, just just getting a bit of sleep. But that's changed a lot. When you guys, it was yourself and and the guy that came second. i had How do you say his name? Blaine.
00:23:42
Speaker
Blaine, last year. Oh, last year, Puru. Puru, thank you. um When you guys decided to call it at 75 hours, 75 laps, were you tapped out at that point? Or did you just decide that no, that this is far enough?
00:23:57
Speaker
um I definitely had more in me, but the the they started um after 48 hours of studying and reducing the time of the lab. So ah where we are at the point of 75, we only had about 42 minutes to complete the lab.
00:24:11
Speaker
um So it wasn't about, you know, pushing the limit. It was at that point was someone just just going to not complete the lab on time, which I mean, it might be, you know, ah obviously challenging, but we also had to wait in the sun for, you know, 15 to 17 minutes.
00:24:26
Speaker
um So that's I think we're both over it. Yeah. And it's just I feel like it might be was becoming maybe dangerous because it's getting really hot.
00:24:37
Speaker
And I think we're both satisfied with how far we went. And no one really expected that we're going to go that far. like you we're probably ready mentally and we think he might go, but it's yeah like organizers for maybe 48 hours and then they had to start reducing the lap time because, you know, there's still, think, five of us after after 50 Oh, interesting. That's the difference. And that that's the main reason I think the loop was extended this year.
00:25:08
Speaker
and Do you feel like this year, with the extension of the loop, obviously, see we saw you you go to 90, but do you feel like you could have quite happily kept going if there was someone to push you?
00:25:19
Speaker
I think I do. it's It's a very fine line because i had i didn't feel great in the mid-80s. I had a few laps. I just thought I'm going fall asleep um and during like while running. So um that was hard. But you know when I finished the 19th lap, I felt like had much more energy. I could definitely go for a few more.
00:25:44
Speaker
um and the sunrise was only a few hours away so i think if the sun would uh has risen and uh fell that uh rise of sun on there the skin i think that would give us a boost and we could definitely go over 100 but again that's what i'm thinking the things can change very quickly and when you're so tired and sleep deprived but I do believe we could could go faster because funny enough, I would finished around three, went to bed around four i went to bed. I only slept for three hours.
00:26:17
Speaker
And then i I go on with my life. I went to see friends on the next day. i went the drop off the gear. I went to the airport. I flew back to Tassie. Had a bit of a nap on the plane.
00:26:30
Speaker
and The plane was delayed. I got home around probably three o'clock and went to work the next day. um So i think yeah I think that fifth day could have been completed as well. Yeah.
00:26:45
Speaker
That's incredible. I saw after the Lara Pinter FKT that you set in 23, you had sort of a few hours and then went went to work the next day as well. Yeah, that's that's what I do. i think it's a good way to do it as well in terms of just not feeling sorry for yourself, just trying do what you have to do.
00:27:04
Speaker
all right. So the i think that so something you said about The race directors at the King of the Hill, kind Hardcore Harry's, something that they have done, which is very different for Australian trail running, is they have a $25,000 prize purse, which is incredible. you Even like you get five grand to win for the men, five grand to win for the women, and then another 20 grand to actually win it overall, which is nice that they actually do have that male-female side to it as well. Last year, i know that there was a cash prize, but it was less. Was it about 10 grand? It was 10 grand, yes. Yeah. right yeah
00:27:39
Speaker
If they didn't have the cash, would you have done it last year? and To be fair, probably I wouldn't. So I heard about backyard and my first thought was like, ah it's probably, it's it's just boring because I like to you know go into nature and ideally go point to point.
00:27:58
Speaker
So running on the lap, it's just not interesting for me. But I feel like it's pretty interesting from the challenge aspect and and pushing, finding that limit. um So probably I wouldn't.
00:28:10
Speaker
and So I thought at the time that I'll probably do a backyard at some some stage. and But for them putting an event with the money price on a helicourse, that was something that did interest me.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah. Sorry, I've done like so many different things. which I haven't been paid for or actually I had to pay to do. yeah well I thought looking for that for that challenge and actually being in an equation for a money price, I thought that's a and it's a good arrangement.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, and and I think that question definitely wasn't meant to be like a bad thing of you're only doing it because of the money. I think it's a testament to what they've decided to try and create. And they've gone, okay, we're going to get the sponsorship involved. We're going to put them the money there and we're going to watch like we wouldn't I don't think as a podcast we would have particularly paid attention to it if somebody like yourself hadn't been there and seeing when once you start doing the numbers and you realize how far and how much elevation they're doing and then the fact that they're doing it for this prize purse so therefore people have come to it like it's it's worked because we're and like said the media content that came out has been very impressive they're probably doing the best the highest quality media out of any event producer in Australia or on the trails that I've seen even even on the roads to be honest their quality is is is really high, which is also ah great for you for exposure as an athlete.
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. The reels they've made us are just a great memories and it's great to rewatch them as well. And yeah, the life ah the live stream was was next level yeah as well. So that's, I mean, they got so many messages of support and people following it. So yeah, that was great that people could follow and get involved.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to take a moment to to commend them because i like I like to see people pushing the boundaries and trying something different and kind of being, not being afraid to break break the mold. So I said, coming into this year, crew, sleeping tactics, um,
00:30:06
Speaker
The conditions that we got or you got were hot to start off with and then incredibly wet. You kind of, that's always going to be a risk of that, that that time of year, but you're lining up on that start line.
00:30:17
Speaker
My best guess, and I'm pretty sure I did see you say this as well in one of your posts was like, you were there to take home the cash to win the thing again. And that was the goal. How do you keep yourself like interested and entertained and focused and for the probably well i think it was i'm sorry i'll get up here i want to get this right the next closest guy out of apart from blaine was ross mcphee and he dropped out at 66 laps so for the the following 23 24 hours like like and up to that point how are you keeping yourself engaged just having that uh goal in mind like i've been here for three days i'm not dropping out i'm i've
00:30:58
Speaker
and yeah I need to win, so I need to i need to keep going. um But yeah, definitely I didn't ah didn't like Rose dropping out because then it was just just me and Blaine. So that was, and then we went for another you know another day Yeah, obviously it's not easy. And, you it's just taking it lap by lap really and you're just getting tired. You have to, you're just much more focused. You have to make sure you fuel yourself right and you just trying to do a lap fairly quickly and go to sleep. So the time goes actually pretty fast.
00:31:33
Speaker
Okay, so on the sleep side of things, you went through three nights, three and a half nights, is that correct? So Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and ah so three and a half, almost four nights. Yeah, almost four nights. What was your approach to to sleep throughout those nights?
00:31:53
Speaker
something i still need to uh put bit more attention and maybe do a bit of a research and um i couldn't find much uh information how top guys i listened to a few podcasts with phil gore and some harvey and harvey lewis and um yeah still need to um improve that that aspect but Yeah, just making making sure that I actually get rest. Even if I'm not getting sleep, just lay down, cover my eyes and try to get that recovery. I think Harvey Lewis said that he believes that even if you don't fall asleep, it's like it must be at least 60% of the recovery. So I really believe in that. and
00:32:31
Speaker
just try to lay down and get the rest. ah Later laps actually was it was just much much easier because you're so tired that you'll just lay down and and fall asleep after a few minutes. So that's once you're so exhausted, it just comes a bit easier.
00:32:48
Speaker
But it's important to try to catch on that sleep earlier. Like if you don't sleep for three days, i think you cannot catch up on that on the fortnight. So you're kind of trying to accumulate as much as possible.
00:33:00
Speaker
Did you come into it with a plan for how you were going to approach the sleep and and and the nights? because as you said, if once the sunrise comes up, rejuvenates you, it you something to look forward to. But then I'm guessing probably from 1am, 2am until 4 or 5 when you're in the middle of the darkness, it can get pretty...
00:33:19
Speaker
ah be beef be be ah That would be a hard point to keep yourself going. Yeah. So again, there was no no strict plan, but the idea was to the first two days I didn't i didn't sleep during the day, but starting probably day day three and obviously four, I was trying to have the lay down most of the labs. So the first two days were you know fairly easy.
00:33:41
Speaker
i was just trying to have a chat with the crew and have bit a bit of a banter and make focus on the food and other things. But the closer it was coming to the 90 hours, like laps in the 80s, I didn't have any focus on food. I would just grab a gel or um just try to eat something quickly or even take it ah um with me on the lap. But just, yeah, that was 100% focused on the sleep because i felt like i could I could run on the blisters. I could run on some small injury. i could run when I'm hungry or not fuel, but I just cannot run if I'm,
00:34:18
Speaker
ah sleep deprived and falling asleep so the doubts have focused later on. Yes, I think it's testament to the importance of like day-to-day life and recovery but yeah you can you you you can can work your way through things and as we'll come to like a lot of the stuff you have done you've been and you've been injured and got through and and I'm sure you've been low on calories and still got through but yeah sleep sleep you can't you can't run away from sleep. no The other thing I found interesting was you mentioned visualization a few times in there as well. And is is that something that you're actively practicing before and during the event?
00:34:57
Speaker
Not per per se, but it's just something that comes naturally. Like you're thinking about the event and then you're running, you know, on the same lap sail up and you kind of want to have that ah image of, you know, when it looks at the end and I want it to that to be a you know happy image and I brought a Polish flag and I was just like, oh, that would be great to finish running through a finish line on the last lap and hold the flag.
00:35:26
Speaker
um Then they also put the tape, the finish line tape and my my friend brought a crown. So that was a few extra ah bonus ah things I didn't even didn't even imagine. But yeah, that that main thing of just that the accomplishment and and yeah, running through to the finishing the lap of the Polish flag. That was something that come to me quite often in my in my thoughts and that last training rounds and during the laps on the course as well.
00:35:57
Speaker
Do you find yourself visualizing the finish line or your performances for other races or FKT as you've done? and Sometimes I do, but it was much stronger during during that race because it was kind of a bit easier to to imagine. Like, you don't, it's not, like the course is not so spread out. And yes, it's also different in the aspect that, you know, sometimes if you if you if you're racing, you know, let's say 100K, 100 miles,
00:36:25
Speaker
and there's different definitions of victory it doesn't always mean that you know you finish first if you have a good race and someone had a great race and you're coming an hour behind someone's like oh it's still good i finished second or third and it's and it's it's still a ah victory in a way but ah in this race more than any other race i think it's it's very black and white you just either win or lose And obviously second person still gets exposure and fortunately Blaine got also some money that were not scheduled. It was thanks to sponsor after the event.
00:37:00
Speaker
um But, ah you know, obviously I feel like I got much more attention than bigger money price. so Again, it's it's a very... and and black and white so yeah I just and yeah I didn't it was you know win or lose and and that's why I think that visualization was much stronger yeah the the payoff is literally and figuratively a lot more to win one of these things than it is to come second and Blaine i we haven't reached out to do a podcast with him and he only did one lap less than you granted. like So it it is a really interesting one. Exactly. Like I don't feel like I, you know, I deserve, I think he deserves ah almost as much spotlight as you know, as the winner because he he we went 24 hours longer than the third person.
00:37:48
Speaker
And I couldn't go that far without without his effort as well. and In those last 24 hours, how much are you guys talking to each other and going around the laps?
00:37:58
Speaker
and Not much at all. Like we talked more than ah in that 24 hours than in the previous 65. Blaine was very focused on on just doing his thing and and running very consistent laps. I think it was around 40 minutes. So I had ae like one very short chat with him before and it was just two of us. I had a bit more with more conversations, but yeah not not much at all.
00:38:25
Speaker
We're doing our own thing. And mainly he was just focused on doing those fast labs. all the conversation had been great and very positive interactions. But um it's crazy that we we spent on the course all across 90 hours and we we talked maybe for five minutes in total.
00:38:45
Speaker
That's incredible. When you're looking back, and you've mentioned this a couple of times, how all your experiences kind of get you to that this moment that you're in right now, whether it's getting a visa or it's winning King of the Hill. Are there any of the, like some of the past FKTs, as I was sort of alluded to these, but the ones that stand out to me that you've achieved in the past, and if there's anything that I don't say here, please do say, but...
00:39:08
Speaker
You've had like the Overland trap yeah that track, Larapinta Trail, there's Frenchman's Cap in there as well. Like obviously a a lot of them based in in Tasmania, but then Larapinta, which unsupported Larapinta, I can't imagine that's say an easy one to take on, even just logistically in the amount that you've got to carry.
00:39:27
Speaker
And then from a race perspective, yeah say we've done everything from being at Gone Nuts like so seven times now, so six or seven years and raced across the world in it. Are there any of those events particularly or any of those experiences that have stood out to you as helping to get you to where you got to at King of the Hill? As you said, I think they all came came together and day you know each of those races helped me um to be you know the athlete I am.
00:39:54
Speaker
um I think like the the races, you know the classic races, so you know anything from 20 to 100 miles, that's something that built my fitness. ah But a lot of those FKTs were what built my kind of mental strength and ah it sort of stub stubbornness and maybe durability.
00:40:14
Speaker
um so that's i think that the way i see that um prepare me for you know going for for that 90 hours and the sleep deprivation and and just pushing through that discomfort the draw for you like the standard events the fkts the like self projects i don't even know where you put king of the hill and all of this is is there somewhere that you do find that you are pulled more towards I do enjoy races, but think those long FKTs, that's what's camp what's most interesting because you have that aspect of a challenge, but you also have that aspect of going to new places, sometimes some somewhere where no one went before.
00:40:56
Speaker
and And then you also get the views. That's something that attracted me to trail running in first place. So it's just all those aspects being um put together. Have you got any FKTs in your mind for the future?
00:41:09
Speaker
I actually have a project coming up end of January. I'm planning to do the longest continuous trail in Tasmania, which happens to be in the Southwest. So I'm going to link Eastern Arthurs. So that's Federation Peak to Western Arthurs and then Port Davy and the South Coast Track.
00:41:26
Speaker
how How far? What are the stats on that? It's about 230K. But by saying that it's Southwest Tasmania. so that's...
00:41:38
Speaker
It's not much like the trails are terrible. There's lots of mud mud and the uneven terrain and ridges and very steep climbs and descents. So not sure how long that can take. Probably around four days, I think.
00:41:53
Speaker
Has it been done before? um I don't think anyone has done it. Probably it's been done over maybe a couple of weeks as a hiking, um but I'm planning to do it.
00:42:06
Speaker
yeah Obviously much faster with the light setup and the support as well. So if there's no one that's done it before, you don't really get any accolades. Like i feel i feel like FKTs in Australia don't have much of an attention put onto them, even if you go and do something like one of the more mainstream routes, and if if that were going to be. So what's what's drawing you to do that specific route? um Well, I think the main thing is just how beautiful it is. Like it's so unique and beautiful.
00:42:37
Speaker
um to do them all in a single push. I think that's it's pretty exceptional. And maybe that aspect that, you know, it hasn't been done before, just just kind of a bit of a, you know, a bit of a blueprint.
00:42:50
Speaker
And I'm sure that would encourage more people maybe, or hopefully, maybe not, if you're not prepared. It's it's a very hard risk. I wouldn't want to encourage anyone who is not prepared. but um Yeah, it's just just a fun project. And I actually have a friend coming ah ah over all all the way from Alice. So it's Simon Duke, who actually I took his FKT on La Rapinta and he climbed the bike just a few months ago. So yeah um yeah we are still friends, so we're going to do it together.
00:43:19
Speaker
That's good. as's it I really like to hear that because as you said, that there's a lot of things that can drive drive people, but I feel like the constant shooter performance can get tiresome or at least there needs to be a break. It's hard to explain because I don't really like i don't look at the map and think like, oh, maybe I can do this or I can do that. It's it's very it's very natural to me. ah just come The idea comes just...
00:43:42
Speaker
kind of grows in my mind i'm like okay i think that's the time to do it so it's never that i'm you know thinking about it too hard and like oh what can i do it's just you know you see this trail um it's longest trail in tasmania it's a beautiful national park um It's a great challenge and you have someone who is very excited to join you for the adventure. So it's, you know, tick all the boxes and it's like set this set the date, you're doing planning and yeah, it's just, it's great. It's it's great to have, I feel like it's very important for me to have those goals and keeping keeping those projects exciting.
00:44:20
Speaker
Where do you think that draw, that sort of like innate excitement for these sort of projects comes from? is Is there something you look back at your childhood that you go, this was always me? Or is it something that's just become you?
00:44:32
Speaker
Maybe it wasn't me. I don't think I challenged myself enough or had a passion when I was younger. So maybe I'm just trying to compensate and just doing as much as I can now when I can. ah But no, it's just something I love love doing. it's just part of my life now.
00:44:48
Speaker
When I was going through, and like and this this comes into the context of King of the Hill as well, but your Impossible 7, which I'll get you to to expand them on a bit, but by the looks of it connecting up 9 in the end of some of like the most spectacular, but from what I can tell, the trails aren't particularly well maintained or in some places they don't really like exist that much anymore and like really pushing your body and your mind to the limit. But it was on day 7 on your post, at the Walls of Jerusalem,
00:45:18
Speaker
where you commented on, haven't you haven't found your breaking point yet, and that you were still kind of searching for that. Do do you still feel like that's what you're searching for? Yeah, I think so. And I was hoping I'm going to find it on the on that hill in Pile Long, but you know I still haven't found it.
00:45:33
Speaker
And I was thinking, like would that be a breaking point if I'm going to fall asleep on on the on the loop? like kind of Technically, yes, because I cannot go any further. But my body was still completely fine. Like I didn't have any soreness. I could still run fast laps. It was just that sleep deprivation.
00:45:51
Speaker
And so I was like, is that a breaking point if you you basically fall asleep? Probably it is because you cannot complete and compete any longer. and But yeah, so it's very much in ah in the search of that. That impossible seven, that's something I think that was the hardest thing I've ever done. Not the project itself, but the fact that I was injured from day two and I pretty much hobbled my way through for the next eight days. that's um Yeah, I'm not saying that's a very smart thing to do, but just kind of that statement of that stubbornness and resilience. And yeah, that's not letting myself to allow that to be a breaking point at that point. So if I was to ask you to define what your breaking point is, it sounds like you're not, there's the physical side, there's the mental side, but you maybe don't know where that definition lies.
00:46:49
Speaker
It might sound weird, but i kind of you know I was hoping in a weird way that I would find a point that I would be like, oh, I don't want to go any any further. I would be very disappointing, but in a way, I was like, that's that's where I push myself so far that I cannot go any further. that so So yeah, reaching that point that I would just quit.
00:47:08
Speaker
Yeah. But also in ah in the same way, i was just i't I'd never seen myself quitting. like ah One goal I had obviously was to win or you know to push myself, but also the side goal was just not allowing myself to quit in the tent.
00:47:24
Speaker
if i If I have to lose, i want to lose while trying to compete the lap, not to just decide that I don't want to go any further. And the creation of the impossible seven, did that come from that pure pursuit so of your breaking point? Probably one of, of small aspects. I don't think I just want to like hurt myself and go and, uh, just suffer. I, I, this, it was the same as that, the last project, I just, just popped in my mind that I'll be nice to try to, uh, to link all those trails and, uh,
00:47:59
Speaker
complete them in that seven days initially, and which became nine and ten days. and But yeah, there were other reasons, just just just having fun and and doing something different and doing something that hasn't been done before. so not necessarily, it wasn't just you know breaking point.
00:48:17
Speaker
challenge was definitely an important aspect and doing something harder than I've done before. The the reason i'm kind of ah hounding on the mindset side of things is obviously with something like King of the Hill, you have to imagine that that's That's the physical side you will you will fall into. And more i would most people will find a breaking point there. Then there's the mental side and the mindset that you will find a breaking point. But there's something about you means that you are able to do something that a very, very tiny percentage of the population can probably ever even think about, like of the the top trail runners and still haven't found that point. And I'm just, I'm really curious like how this has changed
00:48:58
Speaker
how this is formed, like how you have formed as a person, as a runner to still be like, no, I've done all these things, but I still haven't found that point yet. Well, I'm not not sure where it comes from. ah Probably maybe a bit of genetics and being from eastern europeine from Eastern Europe, from Poland, maybe having that hardship in my in my blood. Obviously, we have a very you know complex and hard ah hard history. So maybe a bit of that.
00:49:24
Speaker
um or maybe feeling like i haven't pushed myself when i was uh was younger and i didn't have that uh drive and didn't want it didn't pursue anything and now they have that great passion and um but Yeah, I do feel like it's it's very important to challenge yourself and or either through running or doing other things.
00:49:47
Speaker
Our life, are it's pretty easy right now the the way we have it, you know especially in Australia. So and it's maybe that's something we're striving towards and we need to to challenge ourselves. I'm not sure. it's it's it's ah It's a deep question and I don't have a you know straight answer to it. and and maybe something I still need to discover and find out all that all that reasons for for it.
00:50:13
Speaker
But i I also do feel like I really feel like I'm my best when I'm when i'm running and I'm in those challenging moments. So I feel like created myself pretty pretty good life, um but you know I'm still pretty flawed very much work in progress. But when I'm in those ah challenging situation, I definitely feel at my best. I feel pretty invincible. If you can run for 90 hours and you know buying the 390, 80k and you know just keep going and you still feel like you could ah go further, it's it's very empowering.
00:50:49
Speaker
So that's feel like that's my best best yeah state. And it's also, and it's a very quiet state. You don't have any you know anxieties or distractions and you just focus on on the running. So it's very calming state. You said that you're flawed, like we all are. I think if anybody said that they weren't flawed, that they're lying and and narcissistic.
00:51:13
Speaker
But I've got to imagine when you are in the state of sleep deprivation for 90 hours or you're out on these long FKTs for two, three, four, and some 10 days worth of effort, each time something gets exposed or you become aware of and you can work through and develop yourself. Is is there anything that like has stuck out from King of the Hill that you've come away having learned something different about you?
00:51:39
Speaker
Hmm, sure. One one thing definitely it was, it's not like I didn't appreciate it, but um that team effort, you know, that's that's just really highlighted the importance of of ah friendship and ah just doing it as ah as a team. Again, I couldn't have gone, you know, anywhere that close without people who sacrificed their free time to, you know, ah cook for me burgers or do the laundry for me. it's it's it's it's it's It's amazing how how much effort my crew put into that effort, which just as a side note, it was one of the main reasons that stuck in my head in those hard laps. was like, those people just sacrifice so much of their time. i cannot let them down. i just feel so bad if I lose.
00:52:30
Speaker
so that's pushed me definitely further. It must be incredibly powerful to have that in the back of your mind. Like you see it even in in training when you go to pursue these goals and it's your partner who's looking after the kid at home, allowing you to go out and run for an hour in in a a lot of people's case or...
00:52:49
Speaker
yeah the crews that's coming along and giving up their time and and kind of dealing with you probably in your worst state to to help you get there. yeah It would be would be very powerful to have have those thoughts.
00:53:01
Speaker
that Coming back, because you're in again 2026.
00:53:07
Speaker
um yeah sign up next yeah a few days after i was already on so yes what is is that still again because you know that there's more in you yes i think the the hundred labs that's a it's a milestone and it's a great number to hit and i'm pretty confident we' we're gonna hit that next year because all most of the top guys they're still very new to the backyard game this is only my second second one and it's not even my uh, like main focus, cause I, you know, just, I only really had few weeks strictly preparing for this. I was focused on other races and building towards that event, but not really training specifically for it.
00:53:49
Speaker
and So we're still pretty new. So there's so just so much room for improvement. um So I don't see a reason why wouldn't we go to 100 so that reaching that milestone. and And it's also the community after two years, I feel like I'm part of that race already. And my my crew, I think it would be pretty disappointed if I don't don't come back and and do it again. So They're doing it for me, but you know in a small way, i also you know i want to do it for them and spend a bit of time together and in the paddock in the middle of nowhere.
00:54:23
Speaker
um Obviously, and there's a money aspect again. It's not the priority, but putting so much effort, it is nice knowing that you can be incentivized for it.
00:54:36
Speaker
um And again, the challenge yeah guys coming back to that you know breaking point, I think it's a pretty good way to ah to to challenge yourself and and look for it because you know it's it's very much about mental toughness more than than physical you just need to decide that yes i want to go go for another lap and not quit so and it's ah's a great way to do it so that's um that's another aspect so yeah i mean it wasn't a question i just signed up right away and yeah it's just looking forward to it already. That's so good. Yes.
00:55:13
Speaker
You said there as well, we so we've gone through like, there's the money side of it, the crew side of it, finding your breaking point. is Is there anything else that when it got really tough, that you could draw on as an extra level of motivation to get back out there? Um,
00:55:29
Speaker
I think the the main thing is just having that goal, and the visualization we talked already about, but having the goal and you know you're already into it so deep from going for three days. You just don't want to lose.
00:55:43
Speaker
um And also having a lot of messages of support, like videos from from good friends in Tassie, my sister, my parents send me sending me know best wishes. My sister was even on the live stream. and so that's um that really um helps you and motivates you because you you know you have those people watching you you don't want to let them down apart from the crew it's people watching you you know all the way in poland and all the way in tassie so you just don't want to let them down that the best Yeah. Well, I do understand like no one get upset at me, but if I if i lose, but I just didn't want to be on that side.
00:56:23
Speaker
When you're in that state at the end of that many hours, anything that you can do to help yourself is is going to be be powerful. Like I said, no one, no one cares. No one judges you if you were to come last or first. And there's like winning a race doesn't make you any more worthy of a person. But It's something that in the moment you can use to pat like to get you one more lap and to to not let blame be you that's That's true. Yeah. So it's a very fine line, but yes, that's that's true. You mentioned not training specifically for for this and looking at next year, going 100 laps, putting your body um in the position and just kind of focusing on the physical side of it in the position to say, like,
00:57:06
Speaker
argument's sake, you actually can go to like 150 or you're 200. Like if you were to to try and train yourself as specifically as possible for this, what do you think you would need to do between now and next November?
00:57:19
Speaker
Maybe I should keep it as a secret. Not let anyone to hear it. um But this is like specific for for you, like with with with who you are as an athlete. Like what do you think you you need? Well, I think like the... ah Physical side, it worked really well. So I would probably structure my seasons very similarly. So focus on the races and build up towards it and add a bit more strength strength training coming closer. I'll probably leave a bit more time before.
00:57:49
Speaker
So maybe I'll schedule my last race, you know, for like August or shorter race in in September and have a bit more time to build and, uh, focus on the strength training and doing a lot of um kind of slower hills, just kind of that it keep it very similar to the effort of King of the Hill.
00:58:11
Speaker
And that's what I've been up and doing and the weeks leading me up to it. so that worked for me, maybe a little bit more of that, but very happy how my body held up and it's just no, ah no pain in my legs or anything like that. So that aspect work really well.
00:58:29
Speaker
um Probably trying to dial the sleep. That would be I think. So I'm not sure what it's going to take. Maybe trying to practice nabs or just finding a technique works. We are all different.
00:58:41
Speaker
I had a chat with few people and what works for them, just like a gratitude or maybe a music. or I know Phil Gore is using a hypnotist, so maybe I can bring a hypnotist for the next one. Yeah, no, it's just...
00:58:56
Speaker
Let's see. We'll see. But I need to see what works for me. But the key is the sleep. Again, you can be super fit. You can be able to run five k in 13 minutes. But on that hill, after 60 hours, it, trust me, it means nothing. So You've got to manage yourself well to the point to that for those few days. do Do you think there's any benefit from going and doing a standard backyard ultra and trying to go further? Like if you were to go to Dead Cow, for example, and hopefully push Philbo to 130 laps, like do do you think...
00:59:35
Speaker
It would be interesting to know what happens if through that fifth night, sixth night. or you think once you've, because you've already done three and a half nights, like you know what's going to happen, you know what you're going to feel like, you know what your head's going to do. i don't think it will bring much benefit of of not sleeping for five days. I,
00:59:50
Speaker
think the sleep is very important and I want to only use i want only want to lose sleep when I really have to. and So I wouldn't practice the sleep deprivation for for just the sake of practicing it. Doing a backyard would be probably ah very beneficial from maybe the strategy and and practicing what works, what doesn't work, that definitely, but not from like just not sleeping for five days.
01:00:15
Speaker
But there's a lot of benefits of doing backyard. So, um yeah, just just practicing things and seeing how your body reacts if you if you don't know already.
01:00:28
Speaker
Having got 90 laps and 75 last year, I know you said that the the terrain side of it doesn't particularly interest you for the backyards, but just seeing where you can go, are you curious to go and try and get in a competitive backyard and see how far you can go?
01:00:44
Speaker
um I don't think I will next year. Definitely not. I have some already races that I plan and I want to focus on those. I think I still have a little bit in me to to try, you know, do shorter races and a bit bit bit competitive. And also it's a very unique race. It really takes a lot out of you and you really need to be prepared mentally for it. um So I don't want to do too much of it. I want to have a great, good training blocks and good races and come into King of the Hill next year, excited to try again. So not to burn any matches and, and do that. If maybe at some stage I would try, back here, but it really needs to interest me and
01:01:28
Speaker
At this stage, it doesn't. I prefer that hilly course and I prefer the atmosphere and all the good things we said up about King of the Hill. So I will stick to that for now. yeah And again, that's having that variety as well, um mix it up and <unk> keep it fun, keep it exciting. As we look to next year FKT and other events on the horizon, do you still feel like you're recovering from King of the Hill? Or have is that has that been quite a hard process?
01:01:55
Speaker
and I think i'm I'm pretty good. Maybe ah just a little bit elevated heart rate, but that's also because I haven't been running that much, but I'm pretty much back 100%. It really didn't take me that long, just a few nights of sleep, and I was i was i was feeling good. So, and again, it's it's nothing new to me because i've I've done those things in the past, and I think the body – my body is prepared for that. obviously Obviously, you need to look after yourself, but it it doesn't take that long as, you know, that'll be the first thing I've done. So um having that base and doing things in the past, my body is is ready for those sort of challenges.
01:02:35
Speaker
it didn't really take that much time to come back to normal. It's very impressive. It was fully expecting that that that sort of effort would take months to get the body to come back from her has has the has the recovery period after any of your longer ah efforts taken a long time? Not really. I'm usually back like running right away. I don't think I missed a week of week of running. I might have a week off, but that's because it was scheduled and just just having ah just um having the week off running before building up for the next season. But I i don't think I was you know injured or not able to run more for more than three days. You just mentioned schedule. Do you have a coach?
01:03:22
Speaker
I do have a coach back in Poland, so we're working together on the plan and fitting in. Okay. of thanks so I sort of made the ah the assumption given what your lifestyle has been like and and what you're training for as well, that maybe you doing it yourself. So what did your coach think of when you first said, Hey, I want to do King of the Hill? I probably wasn't surprised because we've been working together for a few years, so he knows what i'm school stuff I'm into. And I told him like, it's even if it's not the best for my for training, uh, from like a theoretical point of view, it's, that's what I want to do. so um it's probably, that I don't make his work easy, but we're trying to work together and and fit in those things I want to do. So, um, yeah, he, he wasn't surprised. It's just probably another thing i'm going to do. And, uh, I was happy to adjust the the program to it. So, but yeah, it's, it's only easy because
01:04:16
Speaker
I don't always have the access, so I need to send my availability maybe a little bit more now than before. But you know if i'm if I'm guiding for a week or if I'm ah out working as a ranger for a week and I'm i' kind of in the middle of nowhere, i cannot do everything that is, I can only do what's available. So it it has to be really adjusted to and the options are usually limited. So again, that just compromising work with with training. Yeah, that's the power of having ah a good coach you've worked with for a while and being able to make it work to your schedule. think it's a very very good good good scenario for for for you to to have. Based on the training that you did do for this year's i King Hill, and granted you said it wasn't specific, but
01:05:07
Speaker
For the person that might be listening to this and it's piqued their interest, they start looking at it and they go, oh you know what? ah I'm curious. I want to see where my breaking point is. What do you think from ah from, and you can take this whether it's physical, mental, it's the sleep, it's the nutrition, it's the crew side of things, but what do you think would be the most important thing for somebody to have the best shot at their best day at King of the Hill next year? Well, I always say it's it's a consistent training um because that's what now prepares you uh for those sort of events and um yeah you cannot hear how fast you're your way up to the challenge like that i don't know unless your challenge is to do one lap but you know if you if you really want to test your limits and you know do uh whatever the the goal is 5 10 50 labs like you you have to have a a good training block at least a few months
01:05:57
Speaker
and to maybe try to challenge yourself in some other ways set small challenges and small goals on the way just to see how your body reacts to it um so you're not totally unprepared and not knowing how how to handle yourself in once you know the sleep deprivation comes and when i look back the first time i've done when i've done the overland by out and back i was after when i was going into the second night i was i was totally done and now totally like mentally broken and just, it was super challenging. And now going into, you know, second, third night, it's, it's like, it's like nothing. So you got to take it step by step and see, and that yeah, training both you physically and and mentally. For yourself, obviously we've spoken about King the Hill next year, fk attempt down in Tassie. Is there anything else that's really exciting you maybe from a more traditional race perspective still? Yeah, I'm very, as as every year, I'm very excited for the, for the races in Tassie. So I'm going to go Gone Nuts and Kuliani Mountain Run. And then we do have a new race on the west coast of Tassie, Diverge.
01:07:02
Speaker
and So I'll do those in Tassie and then I will do probably a miler at UTA. and And then after that, we'll see what the life brings. But for now, I'm planning to maybe go to Nepal or back to Kyrgyzstan, either just for hiking or maybe doing some FKT there.
01:07:21
Speaker
And then back to Poland for European summer and so doing some races in Poland. and spending some time with the family and so yeah come back September, October.
01:07:34
Speaker
And so yeah, put the final touches before King of the Hill. So that's, that's thing that's a DLC scenario for the next year. Sounds like a pretty, pretty fun and action packed year. Yeah. I just noticed actually one of the past FKTs is to Everest Base Camp. that it' one of the That was one of the first ones actually. And yeah, also pretty spontaneous. I was up there and I didn't even, i wasn't, i don't think i was even familiar with the idea of FKT.
01:08:02
Speaker
Yeah. was just like, oh, I mean, I've done the whole loop i around various base camp and came back to Namche Bazaar, which is like a getaway ah town. And i was like, oh, maybe I can just try to do it again, just out and back.
01:08:18
Speaker
after it that, I just submitted it. So but probably the first one. But yeah, again, it wasn't the idea to set the FKT. It was just, yeah, just seemed like a fun thing to do. It it wasn't. But yes, like I can't imagine pushing yourself at that altitude feels very nice. So basically, way, way back took me pretty much as much as way uh way in and that's it's technically much easier um because you're gaining most of the elevation going to the base camp but i was just totally spent and got attitude sickness and i came back barely came like not barely but my i didn't have it in the head torch i just i was just lighting the way with uh with my phone because ah how i didn't expect it's gonna take that long
01:09:09
Speaker
So yeah, that's, that's, that's what you need up there is a good old phone, phone torch to guide your way. Yeah. It just came back with like 1% of battery as well. So Meant to be, the the right amount of time.
01:09:25
Speaker
Piotr, that's been but really fascinating to get to know and know you. And I think that coming into this, the biggest curiosity for me was just how does somebody get themselves to the point where they can win an event like that? And the thing that strikes me is that you're a very level person. Like it doesn't seem doesn't seem like you would lose your cool in situations where you're but and i'm I'm sure you've probably been at the being in it before where potentially your life is in danger to a to a relatively significant degree based on the trails that you've been on or you're pushing yourself to find that that limit. And it's it's been really interesting to get to see and hear your responses to that. So i appreciate you coming on the podcast. Is anything that we we haven't touched on today that you think, especially from King of the Hill, that is is important to say or helpful to somebody that might be listening?
01:10:17
Speaker
Well, we're talking for over an hour. I think we covered a lot of those aspects. I mean, if anyone has any questions, so feel free to reach out. I'm happy to to answer them. um I'm just very happy to be part of the part of the event. And it's also amazing how like that the event grew from from zero. and It's great that someone initiated that change in terms of the pay.
01:10:45
Speaker
um um So, it's yeah, then that again, the content they created is pretty amazing. So it's it's great to look back.
01:10:57
Speaker
Um, not sure. I think we, yeah, cover a lot. Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't recommend everyone doing it, but it's a great way to, to challenge yourself. Uh, but yeah, make sure, I think it's, it's very important to maybe build up to certain things and not jump right back as I did in the past. You know, when I first race was Marathon, then my first ultra was one hundred and first one hundred miler was, uh, uh,
01:11:22
Speaker
you know 12 000 meters of elevation game my first triathlon was the ironman so that's you know probably not the best person to give those advices but um i think it's great to be excited about things and um set those goals and allow yourself a little bit more time um and yeah like train for it like the project i have again it's been it's been sitting there uh sitting in my mind for know two three years and now i feel like it's a point i want to do it and i need to do some and recurrence and that's that's just what's going keep me excited for the next few months so that's the way I see it i think that's a ah perfect way to finish off so thank you again for your time it's been great to get to know you and uh yeah good luck for the the FKT and for everything you got next year yeah thank you yeah it's a great conversation I appreciate it
01:12:12
Speaker
Well, that was Piotr. Listening to him talk then, it inspired me to try and find a new level of myself, of endurance, of persistence, of commitment to the pursuit that I've taken on and has also made me reflect to myself about why I'm doing certain things and where my limits potentially could be if I took an approach that was even more curiosity-based. If this is one of those conversations that also makes you rethink your whole approach to the sport and what you think you may be actually capable of if you were able to take this this approach that Piotr has been able to fine tune over the years, then definitely please share this with somebody who you think might be able to get something out of it as well. That one just makes such a big difference to help the podcast grow. It really means a lot to us, but also to Piotr to show that you really value his story and that you can resonate or just simply enjoy listening to it. With that, we'll catch you on the next one.