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10. Transcending mountains, weekends and the binary, with Aubri Drake
39 Plays9 days ago
In this week's podcast, we catch up with prolific thru-hiker, weekend explorer and non-binary adventurer, Aubri Drake.
Today's guest, Aubri, lives in Washington State, USA, near the White Mountains, where they love to explore the technical, varied terrain. Aubri is a prolific hiker and has completed many of the US's most iconic hikes.
In our first chat in March 2023, Will and Aubri unpack Aubri's then-recent hiking adventures in Washington State, upcoming ultra-adventures at the Leadville 100, and the extremely concerning state of non-binary politics in the USA.
Our follow-up conversation was in October 2025, and meanders through Aubri's recent exploration into cycling, and their incredible accomplishment of hiking 574 of New Hampshire's 48 4,000-foot peaks. We also discuss the incredibly troubling state of social justice in the United States right now, and reflect on how important and special the trail and outdoor community is during challenging times.
You can follow Aubri's adventures on Instagram, @genderqueer_hiker or via their blog, Transcending Mountains.
To hear more from For Wild Places, subscribe to our newsletter or become a member.
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Transcript
Introduction to For Wild Places Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the For Wild Places podcast. This is a podcast that shares the stories of inspiring people and their adventures in running, adventure and advocacy.
Guest Introduction: Aubrey Drake
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm your host, Hilary, and today we are chatting with Aubrey Drake, a queer non-binary hiker, backpacker and ultra runner who has clocked up more kilometres on the trail than many of us will experience in our lifetime.
Acknowledgement of Indigenous Lands
00:00:23
Speaker
Before we get into today's chat with Aubrey, I would like to acknowledge the First Nations people who have been custodians of land, waters and culture for tens of thousands of years. We understand that the wild places we love to explore on this continent have been cared for by First Nations people for millennia.
00:00:39
Speaker
We seek to learn from the world's oldest living culture so we too can care for country, as the Indigenous people of this continent have done since time immemorial. This podcast was recorded on Gadigal country and edited on Wurundjeri country in so-called Australia, where sovereignty was never ceded.
00:00:55
Speaker
This always was, and always will be, Aboriginal land.
Aubrey's Hiking Achievements
00:00:59
Speaker
Today's guest, Aubrey, lives in Washington State, USA, near the White Mountains, where they love to explore the technical varied terrain.
00:01:07
Speaker
Aubrey is a prolific hiker and has completed many of the US's most iconic hikes, including the Appalachian Trail, John Muir Trail, Tahoe Rim Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, and the Colorado Trail.
00:01:19
Speaker
Aubrey is an absolute inspiration when it comes to squeezing the juice out of life, having completed many of these hikes over several years in between a busy work and life. In Will's initial chat with Aubrey back in March 2023, they shared their recent hiking adventures in Washington State, upcoming ultra adventures at the Leadville 100 and the extremely concerning state of non-binary politics in the USA.
Cycling Adventures & Social Justice
00:01:42
Speaker
I then caught up with Aubrey in October 2025 to hear about their foray into cycling and the dedication and logistics it takes to hike 574 of New Hampshire's peaks,
00:01:55
Speaker
which is roughly twelve hundred metres in the metric system We also discuss the incredibly troubling state of social justice in the United States right now and reflect on how important and special the trail and outdoor community can be during challenging times.
00:02:09
Speaker
We are very grateful to Aubrey, whose pronouns are they, them, for sharing these open, insightful and reflective conversations with us. Despite only knowing Aubrey from their adventures via social media, you can't help but feel incredibly connected to and comfortable when speaking with Aubrey.
00:02:24
Speaker
We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as Will and I did. Let's get back to our first Trail Chat with Aubrey from March 2023.
00:02:33
Speaker
Welcome to our Trail Chat from For Wild Places. um My name is Will. My pronouns are he, him, and I'm based in Port Kembla, just south of Sydney on Darawal land.
00:02:47
Speaker
And we'd like to pay our respects to the traditional owners of this land and pay our respects to elders past, present and future. This always was and always will be.
00:02:58
Speaker
Aboriginal land.
Aubrey's Identity & Outdoor Records
00:03:00
Speaker
I work for Wild Places and we put on these monthly chats online. We usually have a pretty relaxed chat with a special guest over about an hour. but I've got a lot of million questions for people and then about halfway through we open it up for other folks to ask questions.
00:03:14
Speaker
I'm super stoked to introduce you to our very special guest. Aubrey is a white, queer, ace, transgender and genderqueer hiker, backpacker, ultra runner, writer, researcher and activist.
00:03:27
Speaker
Aubrey has through-hiked the Appalachian Trail, Europe's Tour de Mont Blanc. don't know if I say that right. ah Vermont's Long Trail, John Muir Trail twice, the tahu Tahoe Rim Trail, New England Trail, the New Hampshire's Co-host Trail,
00:03:44
Speaker
And it's 85% done with the Pacific Crest Trail, but I suspect that's out of date. We might need an update on that one. They've also completed the Northeast 111 4,000 footers, the New England footers. i don't know how to say this next this one. The and, look, to help me with that one.
00:04:04
Speaker
46 feet and the New England 100 highest all in both summer and winter seasons. They've run ultramarathon distances from 50k to 100 miles and set 16 fastest known times, FKTs.
00:04:16
Speaker
They've logged more than 8,500 miles on their feet in the last three years. And quick calc, that's 13,600 kilometres. And their riding has been featured in Tri Runner Mag, Long Trail News Magazine and Non-Binary.
Writing & Advocacy in Outdoor Sports
00:04:30
Speaker
um which is an anthology from Columbia University Press. They raised poor and work working class. They aim to be a trans and non-binary ambassador and changemaker in long-distance backpacking, hiking and ultramarathon running spaces.
00:04:44
Speaker
They can frequently be found blogging about their adventures or sharing wilderness photos, cute cat pictures and flying trapeze videos on IG. So please give a big warm welcome to Aubrey Drake. Thanks for joining us, Aubrey.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me. So I'm calling in from Massachusetts. I'm from the western side of the state that's away from Boston. And i live on Nipmuc, Pecumtuck, and Nonatuck lands, most of which were unceded.
00:05:16
Speaker
um Yeah, happy to be here today and talk about running, hiking, through hiking, outdoor adventures. My first question by far the most important one. I mentioned something. I've been following you for a while on IG, but I have not seen any flying trapeze videos.
00:05:32
Speaker
When are we going to see them?
00:05:35
Speaker
It's been a little while since I posted some videos. I typically take classes in the fall and then in the winter season. Right now I'm on a little bit of a break for the next couple of months. If you scroll back, there's some videos in there. All right, I'll do that. And that's also a great reason to follow Aubrey on IG. Now, I've got so many questions, but Aubrey, you are such a prolific blogger.
00:05:58
Speaker
Before we get into some of the stuff you've been doing recently, i just wanted to ask, where do you find the time to write? It really kind of depends. When I'm doing longer section hikes, I'll take notes during the hikes, but most of the time I'm doing, you know, 50 kilometers a day.
00:06:15
Speaker
And so i don't often have the energy to kind of sit down and write out my experience as fully as I would like to. So i take notes each day. And then whenever I get home, as I'm resting and recovering and I have a little more time because I'm not running around as much, I'll take time and sit down at my computer after work and spend a couple of hours every day.
Pacific Crest Trail Progress
00:06:38
Speaker
um like it took me a couple of weeks to catch up on writing up my entries for the Arizona Trail, which I came back from three weeks ago. What have you been up to lately? You've obviously knocked off the Pacific Crest Trail.
00:06:51
Speaker
And yeah, i've I've seen some blog posts on the Arizona Trail. So like what what have you been up to lately? I am 85% done with the Pacific Crest Trail. I'll be finishing it up this summer. i work full time.
00:07:03
Speaker
i work in medical research and I save all of my paid time off to go as fast as I can whenever I take off time off work. um And so the PCT I've been working on since 2019 because it goes from Mexico all the way up to Canada across the United States.
00:07:25
Speaker
That goes through California, Oregon, and Washington states. And it's 2,600 miles. It takes most people six months to hike it.
00:07:37
Speaker
And so I've been doing it in long sections. Last summer, I did a five-week trip, 26 days of hiking, two days off. And I covered 750 miles. That was wild. I was also very proud that I managed to convince my work to let me take time off. I know that this day date is coming up and I've arranged it this way and I have this other person who's going to help you. and um But yeah, so Pacific Crest Trail will be this summer, finishing off the last 425 Oregon.
00:08:09
Speaker
And I will finish Pacific Crest Trail at the Bridge of the Gods at the Oregon-Washington state line. There's a very large bridge across the Columbia River. So I thought it was nice to finish at something impressive rather than like, here's a road I've seen twice. Okay, we're done.
00:08:26
Speaker
And then i did the first half of the Arizona Trail, you know, back in March. And then I will be finishing up the other half of the Arizona Trail in October.
Training for Leadville 100
00:08:36
Speaker
The Arizona Trail is a desert trail. So it's one of those trails that you have to do it in either spring or fall, but you can't really do it in summer here.
00:08:44
Speaker
And then i also managed to get into the Leadville 100 Colorado in mid-August. I start training for that, like my training, my big, big training block on Tuesday.
00:08:58
Speaker
So yesterday I saw your Strava post about the heart rate monitor and training for the 100 miler. That's what that's for? Yeah. going to the Leadville 100 in Leadville, Colorado. It's got about 16,000 feet of elevation gain over the 100 miles.
00:09:16
Speaker
But the biggest challenge that most people face is that it's at altitude. The starting line is at 9,000 feet and you go over a pass that's at 12 and a half. That should be, it will be a new challenge. It will be very different than the last hundred miler that I did.
00:09:30
Speaker
Will you, because you obviously do so much hiking. Actually, i was going to ask you about your recovery, but we can come back to that. Will you kind of switch training regimes now going from hiking to running? Like like what's what's the different approach there?
00:09:42
Speaker
For the 100 miler, kind of the biggest difference between kind of what I generally do, which kind of an off season, it's run during the week, hike big miles on the weekends, like this winter in 30 calendar days, i did all of the Adirondack 46 high peaks in upper state New York.
00:10:04
Speaker
Many of them required crampons, ice axes, snowshoes, breaking trail. think I saw temperatures down to about negative 20 Fahrenheit.
00:10:17
Speaker
with I think i saw I saw wind chill about negative 30. It was very interesting. think there was winds up to about 70 miles an hour where you're like, get knocked over if you get hit by the wind. i typically run during the week and hike a lot of big miles on the weekend.
00:10:35
Speaker
But then for the 100 mile training, I do a little bit more formalized workouts once a week with more so like a little bit of speed work or hill work and then longer runs where it's not objective focused, but it's mileage ah focused where I can't just go off to go climb up a bunch of mountains. I have to be like, all right, I need to do 20 mile day to day with this much elevation gain and I need to actually be running for most of it. And you'd be pretty confident at altitude though. Yeah.
00:11:04
Speaker
I mean, I have a fair amount of experience for hiking at altitude. The John Muir Trail, pretty much all of it is at altitude. A lot of the Pacific Crest Trail is at altitude and a little bit of the Arizona Trail is at altitude as well.
00:11:19
Speaker
So, and I'm planning on going out. I'm able to work remotely for a lot of my time at work. So I'm planning on going out two weeks in advance and working remotely in Denver and then higher up so I can have more time to adjust my altitude to be as acclimated as possible going into the race because I think that will be the biggest factor really in being able to make their cutoff times. Their cutoff times are very aggressive.
00:11:45
Speaker
How is the body feeling post well your all your recent hiking? Are you still in recovery mode or are you recovering from any injuries?
Managing Physical Challenges
00:11:51
Speaker
i mean, I... um Going into my hike on the Arizona Trail, I had developed just out of the blue, um probably because I was increasing my mileage in a little bit too quickly on running.
00:12:09
Speaker
I developed a really intense shin pain in my right leg. So I backed off running for a couple of weeks leading up to my hike. That seems to be mostly resolved. During hiking, I had a nagging heel problem that I thought was my boots. And then I realized it was actually my Achilles.
00:12:26
Speaker
So I'm working with a physical therapist on that. But I've been taking the advice of a couple of my friends who also do coaching. They're like, spend March and April when you come back from your hike doing cross training, whatever feels good, resting a lot, miss running.
00:12:46
Speaker
That's a good thing to miss. Right. Because once you get into the 100 mile block, you're going to be excited at the beginning. And by the end of it, you're gonna be like more running. And I was like, I remember that from last year. You're like, must we go do more running? Okay, fine.
00:13:02
Speaker
um And so wanting to have that hunger for running and having my body ready to go and fully recovered and just mentally the fatigue can definitely get to you with a training block that's three months long.
00:13:16
Speaker
That's such a good point. Actually, our last guest last month, she's doing these crazy ultra triathlons. And so she's been doing a lot of cycling. And yeah, she was saying how it was actually really nice to miss running. Aubrey, if you don't mind, i um your the the The article you wrote to be seen in Try Run a Mag was a while ago now, but that really affected me. In that article, you mentioned that you discovered the term non-binary in 2011.
00:13:44
Speaker
Before that, you'd never considered that there might be genders beyond a boy
Discovering Non-Binary Identity
00:13:49
Speaker
and a girl. How does it feel to not even have the words to describe how you're feeling inside? Part of what was so powerful for me in that moment in time to find...
00:14:01
Speaker
a word that described my experience. It was, it was many different pieces, but one of it was, it told me that I wasn't the only one. It wasn't just me.
00:14:12
Speaker
It wasn't that I was just an aberration. I wasn't abnormal. It wasn't just me. There were other people like me and that feels very different.
00:14:24
Speaker
Because it's so it's so isolating. I was always trying to shove myself into ah box of like, well, okay, like this is what a woman is or this is what a man is. But that doesn't feel quite right.
00:14:36
Speaker
I'm not very good at it. and don't really like it. it doesn't really work. Maybe everybody feels this way. and tried to find different words to describe who I was and I couldn't find any of the words that people had like gay or straight, you're like masculine or feminine. But it was like, if you're a masculine woman, then you're gay. And if you're a feminine man, then you're gay. And was like, but I don't know that any of those things fit quite right or represent my actual experience.
00:15:10
Speaker
So, and part of finding a word for myself was also really powerful in finding that there is a history that comes with it. There have been people before There is kind of that continuity, that sense of connectedness of generations that have come before me and being connected to that rich history, especially when, i don't know, for myself, I had kind of a feeling of almost being like an orphan where there wasn't a connectedness with a group of other people that had a similar experience.
00:15:39
Speaker
And then being able to find out that, oh, actually, I come from a long line of many trans, gender expansive, non-binary people who have existed for millennia in most cultures. There have been spaces where different words are used, but it describes that experience.
00:16:01
Speaker
And so, yeah, it was, i mean, it was life-changing and made me feel much less lost and much less alone. One thing that made me, I guess, angry reading that article is you're describing as a child just playing with other kids, playing in nature and getting muddy and jumping around and no one giving a shit about this stuff.
00:16:23
Speaker
um And then, you know, it hits you like a truck when puberty kicks in and then society and other parents and everything comes in. And I'm thinking about it especially at the moment because I've got a nine-month-old kid.
00:16:36
Speaker
At the moment, it's just that beautiful stage of... um of, yeah, none of that stuff matters. Kids just play and hang out together. And I'm scared, I guess, about that period approaching much later. I've got i've got years to worry about it.
00:16:51
Speaker
I was really good to read about your experience, even though it made me angry and want to rage about the house. um But yeah, that must have been amazing to discover the term non-binary like and and everything that that means, the history, the community.
00:17:06
Speaker
Anyway, thanks for that article. I really loved it. For sure. Thank you for reading. And, you know, I feel like at the end of the day, having a parent that is engaged and listening to their kid to say, like, who are you and who you are today is great. And that can also change. And that's okay.
00:17:27
Speaker
That's a wonderful gift to give to your child. We don't need to get too serious, but I did want to ask you, i was just checking out our website translegislation.com. According to that website, there were 512 bills in 2023 introduced attacking the rights of trans and non-binary folks. 45 have passed. 370 are still active.
00:17:49
Speaker
97 have failed, which is great, I guess, but like, that's insane. Over 500 bills. I just wanted to ask you, what's your take on what is behind this massive push at the moment, attacking the rights of trans and non-binary folk?
Impact of Anti-Trans Legislation
00:18:04
Speaker
I mean, it is devastating. It is not surprising. Trans people have been saying for ah number of years, hey, they're starting to push through these different bills.
00:18:16
Speaker
People, we should pay attention. Can you please pay attention? They're like, well, but do trans people belong in sports? Maybe they don't. It's interesting. A number of people that I follow have raised this point, which is if you look at the steps to genocide, they're They're taking many of those steps and we're getting towards the tail end of that, where at the end of it, it's all about dehumanizing and distancing and othering.
00:18:43
Speaker
And the right in the US has been working on this for a long while. It's the natural conclusion they've been aiming for for quite a while, and they'll say it's about the children. It's never been about the children and many of the laws that are were proposed, and some of which at this point, there is one state in the U.S. that has banned access to gender-affirming care for adults that is no longer accessible in Missouri. And it is currently looking like that is going to happen in Texas as well, in addition to a host of other really terrible bills.
00:19:16
Speaker
I don't know, it they've done the research and it them ah putting all of their eggs in the basket of trying to get votes by hating trans people, it doesn't actually work.
00:19:29
Speaker
They lose votes, actually. There's been a a couple of incidences in the last election where seats flipped the Democrat that normally went Republican. and those were some of the politicians who'd gone really hard on trans stuff.
00:19:42
Speaker
Something like 65 or 70 percent of Republicans in the U.S. are like, leave trans people alone. Like, why are you obsessed with this topic? so
00:19:53
Speaker
I think it really comes back to a maybe a few thousand people. There's a couple of specific hate groups that are very well connected with the politicians who are in power. And often the bills are identical. They're like copy, paste, copy, paste from one state to another state. And the people who are putting up the bills have literally never read them.
00:20:13
Speaker
So i yeah, nobody I know is okay. Everybody is depressed and anxious and suicidal and considering fleeing the country, definitely fleeing their state.
00:20:28
Speaker
I know multiple families with trans children who have had to move, often uprooting jobs and families to be somewhere where they can be safe.
00:20:40
Speaker
I'm not traveling to Florida. Like, uh, what is it? Is that, um, was it equity Florida equality, equality Florida put out a travel notice that was basically like, if you are LGBTQ, please do not come to Florida. It is not safe.
00:20:55
Speaker
I live in Massachusetts and there is some degree of protections in that at the same time, There is a town about 35 minutes away from me that was supposed to have a rural pride celebration coming up.
00:21:13
Speaker
They had approved the permits and in the last two days, they tried to ban drag queens from pride and then rescinded that attempt to ban it and then said we revoke your event permit you are not allowed to have pride in this town anymore because they've been and don't know watching fox news yeah we uh it's it's terrible we and unfortunately australian politics often reflects u.s politics there's often overflow and a lot of connection and there's
00:21:57
Speaker
similar stuff going on here, although not not to the same extent in terms of 500 bills, but there's a bunch of stuff happening. One heartening thing, I guess, it's happening in the context of like in 2017, federal marriage equality legislation was introduced here and passed on the back of ah of a referendum.
00:22:15
Speaker
So it feels like there's kind of positive change happening And then this kind of backlash against that progress, I guess. And, yeah, i I mean, I think there's a bunch of reasons in everything you're saying um I agree with.
00:22:29
Speaker
and And especially that thing you mentioned about playing on people's ignorance to deflect from the really bad things going on in a lot of people's lives. Like here, we've got this full-on cost of living prices where inflation is through the roofs.
00:22:43
Speaker
You go to the supermarket now and it costs two or three times at what it did a' a few years ago. People are really struggling. Hey, look over there. People to hate, you know, like it's just so it's so gross um in terms of the impact it has on people.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, and especially in the US with all of the gun violence happening and they're like, it's the drag queens. And you're like, I think it's the guns. Yes.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, I know. Oh, that go that's... um Hey, Aubrey, when i became a runner, actually felt like... ah My first sport was basketball, which has a lot of um kind of ultra-competitiveness and a lot of macho culture stuff.
00:23:24
Speaker
Probably not as much as football, but I found running... a lot more inclusive and kind of progressive, I guess. And I read things like Trailrunner Mag, and that seems to to back that up. i don't know how you feel in terms of the running community, but would you have any advice for us as runners in Australia how we can help the the campaign to support rights for trans and non-binary folks?
Supportive Trail Communities
00:23:49
Speaker
don't know. so great question. So kind of to the first part of the question, and Shane, I saw your question. I will get to that in a minute. I have found most folks in kind of running and ultra running community to be more relaxed, more open, more willing to...
00:24:08
Speaker
just whatever it takes to be welcoming. And I think that kind of, especially from ultra running, i think that's a little more in the ethos where it's like, how can we support you? What snacks do you like? We're all in it doing a hard thing together.
00:24:23
Speaker
There's not that kind of ultra competitiveness and not as much toxic masculinity in this idea of like, we're the fastest or we're the best. And it's like, we're all out here doing a silly thing, which is running around in circles. Like it's a good time.
00:24:39
Speaker
I have also been in through hiker culture a lot and long distance hiking. And it kind of varies kind of to to Shane's question. It really kind of varies.
00:24:51
Speaker
Sometimes I am surprised by the people who are
00:24:57
Speaker
not supportive and people who are looking to cause trouble. I'm generally read as a gay man on trail and people have had a problem with that sometimes. i ended up hiking through the very rural South during the election for Trump and people would have a lot of feelings at me.
00:25:16
Speaker
And had people tell me that they're like, are you gay or something? And i was like, There's clearly one right answer. And the answer is no definitely not. And I've had people tell me, the shelter is full.
00:25:32
Speaker
You should stay somewhere else tonight. was like, there are three of you and it is an eight person shelter. But if you are correct. I'm going to go sleep somewhere else. That's the better plan. I have been surprised by the kindness of people in so many places.
00:25:50
Speaker
I've had so many experiences that were just... wonderful Like I was hiking in Washington state on the Pacific Crest Trail and there was this kind of all-terrain vehicle campground that very rarely was used by anyone.
00:26:08
Speaker
i got there to set up my tent for the night and there was already two pickup trucks that had driven in on this barely drivable road and set up a big camp. And they had a campfire and a bunch of tents and a bunch of booze.
00:26:29
Speaker
This is a bunch of bros all hanging out. This is not a place to hang out for very long. So I kind of was like looking around, trying to find somewhere to camp. And this older man comes over and he's like, oh, there was a couple of people who stayed last night who stayed like over there. And so I was like,
00:26:47
Speaker
thank you. And I like go over and set up my camp and I'm in my tent about to go to sleep. And I hear this voice who goes, hello in the tent. Are you still awake? And i was like,
00:27:00
Speaker
yes, this is how the horror movie starts. What can I, what can I help you? and he's like, he's like, so, and it was the old man who talked to me earlier and he goes, so my son just came back from a walk and he wanted me to come ask you to come and have a margarita with my son and his husband.
00:27:19
Speaker
but if You can come, we have a a really nice fire. You can come hang out with us if you'd like, but if not, it's okay. And he like walks away and i was like, all right, this is going to be different than I thought. And I like went and sat by the fire and we talked for a couple of hours. And they're like, the son was like, I told my dad specifically say me and my son and his husband. He's cause I know what we look like. I wouldn't come out. I'd be like, I know what you all are about.
00:27:49
Speaker
and It was just like a nice evening where it wasn't a big deal. And it it was nice to just being like have that kind of normal experience without having to worry about it. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely.
00:28:05
Speaker
ah Shane, I kind of stepped on your toes and i almost asked a similar question over the top of yours. I thought you were just about inefficient. Yeah, i should have I should have claimed it. Just I've worked your question into mine. Yeah.
00:28:17
Speaker
ah How are we going for time? I got a bit involved there. sort five hit Hill, have you got any questions before I carry on? It's a bit of a, I guess, I do have lots of questions, Aubrey. I guess started off as a hiker and then discovered trail running and then injury and, you know, stuff and just got back from hiking in Tasmania and it's got me questioning how do you decide what's a trail run versus a hike?
00:28:41
Speaker
Because I find it, you know, they're two different experiences that you have and that when you're hiking, know, because there was a trail that was 15K and I was like, I could go do it as a run, but I'm going to do it over two days so I can go slow and actually take it all in and spend the night out in my tent and actually just do it to be there as opposed to like train or just say I've done that particular route. But,
00:29:04
Speaker
Yeah, it made me think much more about like choosing to slow down. And I feel hiking, you know, you you've got to pack on and it's still a workout. It's a different kind of workout. But how do you decide what you do as a through hike or as a, you know, where you do a heap of K's in one day versus just for the enjoyment of it, I guess?
00:29:26
Speaker
I struggle with slowing down. You must have to do it at an an incredible pace to like have a so many Ks, you know, on a weekend as well. So yeah, that's not surprising.
00:29:40
Speaker
Secret is often not sleeping as much, getting up very early and going to bed very late and not snacking or having like a break. I like eat while I walk. I come from hiking and through hiking before kind of discovering trail running and ultra running.
00:29:55
Speaker
It took me a ah good while to realize there's a good overlap of what is ultra running and what is like hiking really fast. You're like...
00:30:07
Speaker
how much of an ultra do you run, right? Like a hundred miler, unless you're like the upper echelon of runner, like you spend a lot of it walking. um And so like having that strong hiking background where you're like, I can be asleep. And if the terrain is decent, I can hit three miles an hour, pretty much asleep, which is really great in the middle of the night. Like um for deciding kind of what ends up being ah run versus a hike for me,
00:30:38
Speaker
Some of it depends on the training goal. Like, um, there, there, so there is a, there out in the white mountains in New Hampshire, there are 48 high peaks. There is a thing called a grid, a New Hampshire grid, which is all 48 peaks in every single month of the year.
00:30:59
Speaker
And so the the name of the game is that you should hike the, you know, peak one in January, February, March, like every single, and it's honestly in one year, although there are a few humans who have done that highest respect to Philip Karsha, because he's done it a number of times.
00:31:15
Speaker
He's a beast, but I'm working on that because when you're like, what am I going to do this weekend? well, I'd love to go hiking. you like well, what do I want to hike? And I was like, well, let me just look at my list. What do we have left? yeah What do we need for April? It takes the thinking out of it a bit, doesn't it? Like the, yeah, no, I find that as well. In 2020, I tried to visit all the national parks in our state and there's 45 and that made it really easy because it was like, I'll just go to one of these places and you slowly mark them off and and it kind of takes the deliberation out of, yeah, being like we're pretty spoiled for choice here and you just...
00:31:52
Speaker
yeah, it gives you something to do and you always find a trail and some are more picturesque and memorable than others, but you get to see places that you wouldn't normally go to. And I think definitely like we don't have the through hiking culture here in Australia that you do in the States, mainly because through hiking is more like putting everything you need for 25 days on your back, which is crippling.
00:32:15
Speaker
And then going out literally into the wilderness and um And, you know, we've got the Australian Alpum Walking Track, which think only like a dozen people do each year just because it's very poorly maintained and, you know, it's only reserved for the very competent hikers who are basically completely self-sufficient. But...
00:32:34
Speaker
I know a lot of people that do go over to the States to do the likes of the PCT and that kind of stuff because it's doable and it's but reasonably accessible in terms of like your skill level.
00:32:45
Speaker
And it's also social, which I think is one of the best parts of hiking and, um, yeah, meeting people on the trail. and And I guess to that point, I'm interested to know, I guess in extension to Will's question around like, yeah, how can we be more aware? It's interesting you say like when you got to that campsite and there was that group of guys, like I feel the same when I'm camping on my own as a woman. If there's guys having a bro weekend, I'm like, nah, I'm not staying anywhere near here. Like chances are it'll be fine, but it's just not worth risking it. But I guess, what are your, not necessarily red flags, but what are the things that you do when you're out on the trail, just for your own safety perspective, whether it's people or fatigue or rolled ankles like Will had, um you know, what are some like of your tips that you've got over your thousands of kilometers that you've covered that have kind of got you out of a potentially sticky situation?
00:33:38
Speaker
Oh man, that's a really good question. And I, nobody has ever asked me that. I love it. It's so good. Um, I feel like the biggest one is like trusting my gut and learning to just roll with that.
00:33:50
Speaker
Where in day-to-day life, I can be like, well, and like kind of reason myself out of it. Like, well, i mean, how much of a risk is it? Maybe they meant something different than the implication that there was. and But out on the trail, if something doesn't feel right, I'm gone.
00:34:08
Speaker
If that means I'm walking instead of getting a ride. If... And in some cases, it's not always comfortable for me, but I will sometimes keep my mouth shut when people say things that are not great. Like I had that experience on the Arizona Trail where somebody who's giving me a ride was like, let me tell you why I hate Biden and why he's the worst. And i was like, all right, we have a five minute ride to the trailhead. I am not going to convince you otherwise.
00:34:37
Speaker
Yeah. Save your energy and avoid. it Yeah, I find sometimes I need to like, especially around people you don't know, like not be too outspoken about your, you know, values or beliefs because you don't know who's around you.
00:34:51
Speaker
If you are sharing a heart, it's a pretty small space. And, um yeah, it's kind of because you can get along with anyone if you need to. But as soon as you put your heart on your sleeve or your values on your sleeve, it's pretty easy to... um make it what could be reason, you know, an uncomfortable, but plausible, you know, with you can withstand that situation into something where you do feel, I guess, vulnerable, or you just don't want to, I guess, open that can of worms.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah. And it's, it's always a balance between authenticity and safety for me as an individual. Um, I think that's also true for a lot of other people who are out hiking who are some kind of minoritized people.
00:35:33
Speaker
And I think that ah applies for women hiking, honestly, as well. At the same time, allowing myself to give
Authenticity & Safety on Trails
00:35:42
Speaker
people a chance. Like if there's not red flags happening,
00:35:46
Speaker
to sometimes lean in and be a little bit vulnerable. i won't necessarily give people my whole truth, but there is something to be said for a spirit of it. Like there was a particular interaction that I had when I was on the PCT in Washington where I was in town.
00:36:02
Speaker
This is very small town that's only accessible by ferry or on foot. And I ended up hanging out with these three retired, like ex-military fellows in their and 70s.
00:36:15
Speaker
And they are not people that I would normally be spending time with, but they were very kind and very good conversationalists. And we ended up having a really wonderful conversation where the ex Marine was like, made presumption that he's like, well, you know, you're, you're gay. Like, how did your parents take it? And I was like,
00:36:40
Speaker
like, all right, let me give you the like emotional reality. Not necessarily the real reality, but like, me give you the emotional reality. i was like, yeah, my my parents were like very conservative Christians and they didn't want anything to do with me.
00:36:54
Speaker
And he was able to stay in the moment in ways that most other people that I've talked to were not able to. And he like, just about like held my hand and looked me in the eyes and was like, that's not okay.
00:37:11
Speaker
And I am so sorry that they couldn't see the value in you. i was like, all right. I wasn't expecting to be like crying with this ex Marine in a campground somewhere randomly. like a But like having those moments that people can surprise you sometimes.
00:37:30
Speaker
But so Will's question about kind of like, how can you invite people in, be more inclusive I think some of it is ah matter of doing your own research, doing your own reading, doing your own learning, where like knowing how to how to own your mistakes. I got to say like ah one of the best things in the world to me is somebody who's made a mistake and knows how to say I'm sorry and knows how to do better and can own it in the moment and say, oh, I stuck my foot in that.
00:38:07
Speaker
I am very sorry. I realized that I did. I'm going to do better. i really appreciate if you'd give me a chance to show you that I can do better.
00:38:19
Speaker
And sometimes that's better than not having got a made a mistake in the first place. Totally. And I think that's what gets me is like the fear of being cancelled or saying the wrong thing.
00:38:30
Speaker
And then we don't have those conversations or kind of tread into those grey areas because we're afraid of offending someone. But through that comes learning. Like you said, you've got to make mistakes or someone to kind of say, well, have you thought about it in this way to kind of further your learning? And then being like, yeah, well, sorry, I said that, but that came from a place of ignorance or you know I've taken the time to learn and now I'm going to try and, and yeah, just understanding that people are trying, we're not going to get everything right. But yeah, I think. And there's, yeah, there's a, there's a balance to be struck, right? Because i think,
00:39:07
Speaker
For myself, and I think for a lot of people, it's um death by a thousand paper cuts, where sure, when when you step in it, it's the first time you've done it, but it's the hundredth time it's happened today for this person.
00:39:19
Speaker
And so kind of being able to hold space to acknowledge that like, I hurt you the once, but you've been hurt a lot in the same place by a lot of people. And I have power to hurt you in that way.
00:39:33
Speaker
And kind of ah good apology. is really powerful and it doesn't come with a but, right? It's not like I meant really well and you're like, no, I'm not making excuses for what I did. Like i made a mistake and I hurt you and I'm really sorry.
00:39:51
Speaker
That wasn't what I was trying to do. I want to show respect because I think that's the thing. People get caught up on this idea of like, I don't want to offend you. But for me, at the end of the day, it's about respecting me.
00:40:03
Speaker
If you use the wrong pronouns for me, you're disrespecting me. And it's like ah true apology is coming to me saying, I want to respect you. I do respect you.
00:40:16
Speaker
And I made a misstep that showed that I didn't respect you. And I want to make that better. But at the end of the day, I think it's really just about being humble and being authentic and entering into interaction, having done the work, try to educate yourself as much as you can and If you're ever, if you're doing events, there are different things you can do, particularly around like gender markers to allow people to opt into gender categories without like not requiring any kind of legal proof of gender and offering non-binary categories and offering flexibility that if you have ah men's, women's in a non-binary category, that there's equitable,
00:41:08
Speaker
awards available for those categories. It's been really fun to watch, particularly around the US s and Canada. I've been watching gravel racing on bicycles has had a really big increase in races that offer equitable awards and prize money for non-binary athletes.
00:41:28
Speaker
And they've seen a huge increase in the number of athletes that are now showing up. Because the first year they're like, well, we got four people. and And the second year they got like 35 people. And I was like, well, yeah, if you build a space with people in mind, they're more able to show up.
00:41:48
Speaker
I think that's one of the things I said in one of the interviews that I i did for Trailrunner was that sometimes showing up to an event where I'm forced to check a box of either like male or female people It feels like I'm already having to lie or like put myself in a box and represent myself inaccurately before I even show up to the race.
00:42:13
Speaker
And so I don't even get to be at the race as myself. And then you're asking me to run how long?
00:42:25
Speaker
No, that's really good to hear because that's something we're having that conversation. We've got an event happening in its second year later in September, and that's something that we're trying to navigate. We've got a camp coming up with some non-binary people coming along, and we want that opportunity to try and unpack this situation a bit more and I guess, yeah, approach it in a way that is inclusive. and But also because it is pretty new here, you know. i don't know of any events off the top of my head that do offer that kind of, ah that as an option, which is, like you said, a real...
00:43:00
Speaker
build it and they will come kind of thing, but no one's taken that step yet. So how do we do that in a way that is genuine, but then also doesn't just presume things. We're actually speaking to the people that would like to be part of those events and say, how do we make this more inclusive for you? And unfortunately, there's no prize money for anyone. So it's all very on that. We can be very diplomatic.
00:43:21
Speaker
But yeah, it's, we've got a long way to go here in Australia. Like Will said, in many ways, we're always quite a way behind what is happening in the States, but it means that we can learn and we've got a lot of, um you know, we can look to those events that are doing it and learn from them and reach out and say, Hey, how have you done this? And how can we elevate the scene in Australia so that we can catch up rather than constantly be lagging five years behind and Yeah, it's a real, i guess, yeah, there's a lot of potential there, but no one's kind of prioritizing it yet.
00:43:58
Speaker
And it's exciting too, because it means that the trail running community has an opportunity to be some of the first people to offer a space.
00:44:13
Speaker
And one of the things i always mention, particularly with people who can influence and change those things Gen the last time I looked, it's about 15% of them identify as some flavor of non-binary and 3% of them identify as transgender. So if you want to stay relevant, I mean, it's a really good argument for it.
00:44:36
Speaker
Like the next generation coming up has very different perspectives. on gender and gender norms. but like So like to kind of keep keep us all moving together, it's also just generationally sensitive.
00:44:51
Speaker
One of my favorite series of educational videos about trans stuff is from Australia, i believe. but I can actually just drop it in the chat. Yes, please, I'd love to say
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah, here we go. Yeah, it's trans101.org.au.
00:45:15
Speaker
a really, really lovely series of videos. They have little educational booklets, but I've given this link to dozens and dozens of people where they're like, I don't know. ah I don't know very much about trans or non-binary people. I'm like, watch these videos and then come talk to me when you've already had your kind of basic beginning, at least just a little bit of education about where to go from here.
00:45:39
Speaker
That's awesome. I think it's so important we're just having the chat as well because I think you mentioned earlier, Aubrey, it's not as if we're going to solve every problem today either. like Things will keep changing and evolving.
00:45:51
Speaker
And even in running, I've learned a lot about formal stuff that can be done, cultural stuff that can be done. ah was thinking about Parkrun the other day. Parkrun in Australia has introduced a non-binary category and they did some great media around the choice they made in the discussions that were had.
00:46:06
Speaker
And that was awesome. But still with parkrun, there's still only on every course, there's a male and female record. It's gone part the way, you know? so but but again, like like there's positive steps forward, but but the discussion needs to keep going around. Well, that's good. but But what about this? Like we need to, we need to keep going.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah. Like it was really exciting to see this year because it's one of the big races that Boston Marathon had a non-binary category for the first time.
Progress in Marathon Inclusivity
00:46:35
Speaker
actually know the person who won the category and I think she ran a 222 marathon or something. Like she missed Olympic qualifier by a couple of minutes. It was just really exciting to see such a competitive field.
00:46:50
Speaker
And the prize money at Boston is very big for the men's and women's category, but for the non-binary category, it's very small. i hope to see in future years that there'll be more equitable money in that. One of the books that I've recently read that you know, it's it's at the intersections that I really appreciated. It's called Running While Black by Alison Deser.
00:47:14
Speaker
And it's, you know, it's based around talking about anti-Black racism. It is very moving and interesting to think about, who has access to running?
00:47:28
Speaker
Why is it competitive? What are the histories that we tell and what are the histories that we don't? um But also about building a culture in a running group, in a running community.
00:47:40
Speaker
What does that look like? And one of the things that she talked about was going to a group run at the beginning, ah at somebody else's group run.
00:47:52
Speaker
And nobody greeted her. Nobody talked to her. People were like, it's supposed to be a group run and people would like take off as if it was ah race.
00:48:04
Speaker
And the goal was to go as fast as you could. and they left people behind. Nobody waited around for the people who were slow to catch up. And she was kind of like,
00:48:17
Speaker
why did I go? and this just makes me feel like I'm not a real runner and that I clearly don't belong here. So what was like, how can, and she ended up creating her own group and made it completely different.
00:48:33
Speaker
And I think that's in general, right? Like one of the things for us to think about is how do we welcome people in? How do we create a warm, inclusive environment just across the board for making sure that everybody feels like if you're 12 minute mile runner or a six minute mile runner, we should all be able to support each other and show up and have some kind of a run together.
00:49:02
Speaker
Absolutely. That may be an awesome note to end on because we're out time. This always happens. We get into a good yarn. You've got to finish up. Aubrey, thank you so much for joining us. i know it's late there. We need to let you go to bed.
00:49:17
Speaker
that depend Folks, yeah, thanks everyone for being part of this and thanks for tuning in if you're watching on the YouTubes. Check us out next month on May the 18th at noon. We've got Melissa Robinson as our special guest who took part in the Barkley Marathons. She's a Central Coast woman. We'll be looking forward to ah not just the run but everything about the blue. I think it's fascinating.
00:49:42
Speaker
Also, check out For Wild Places membership. Wildplaces.com. You can click through the links. Becoming a member and supporting for Wildplaces allows us to do what we do and try and convince more of the running community to to get active and get activist and turn individual motion into social motion. I didn't really say they're right, but you know what I mean. You know what i mean?
00:50:04
Speaker
But on that note, yeah, thanks for joining us. And Aubrey, thanks again so much. Good luck. at theville We'll be watching and cheering you on and all the best for 2023. Thanks for joining us.
00:50:18
Speaker
Thank you for having me. It's been really great. Thanks, Aubrey. Lovely to meet you. Sleep well. she guys Have a great day. Thanks, everyone. run Bye.
00:50:30
Speaker
Now we're going to jump forward to October of this year and get an update on how Albury's foray into ultra running is going and what incredible and inspiring challenges and trails they've been up to since.
Recent Adventures & Nature's Solace
00:50:41
Speaker
It's been turbulent couple of years. First of all, whereabouts are you tonight and how have you been? I'm still in Massachusetts in the United States and Politically, it's been very complicated in in both my personal life and in my professional life.
00:51:00
Speaker
Professional life, I work in research. And so a lot of money for research comes from federal grants. And so that has been far more complicated than I had anticipated.
00:51:10
Speaker
but I have been going outside and running and hiking and finding solace in in that these days. So it's been an exciting few years for sure.
00:51:23
Speaker
Yeah, and it is, i guess, times like this that are challenging. that our connection to the outdoors is more important than ever as an outlet for, I guess, escaping the noise and the news cycle and screens and, you know, just the endless scrolling that we can find ourselves in. You're in fall at the moment over there in Massachusetts. What's an adventure that you've done recently that really stands out as something that's lifted your spirits and provided a bit of hope in a time that could be so challenging?
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah, last weekend, um I decided to take advantage of just, ah we're we're in the midst of a drought, actually. So it's been very dry here, which I'll take it for the moment. It means that it hasn't been raining a lot.
00:52:05
Speaker
And so last weekend was was just perfect, perfect fall weather, cool morning, a little bit of heat in the afternoon, perfect blue skies. So I went to the White Mountains in New Hampshire, which is the Appalachian Trail goes through the mountains there.
00:52:20
Speaker
And there's just so much hiking to be done there. So I ended up doing a presidential traverse, which includes Mount Washington and goes along the Appalachian Trail for a while. It's about 18, 19 miles. It's above treeline for the entire thing. It's in the alpine environment.
00:52:37
Speaker
And then ah because I've also been getting into road cycling ah recently,
Cross-Training for Sustainability
00:52:43
Speaker
I then rode the 27 miles back to my car a bicycle that I had spotted.
00:52:50
Speaker
And, you know, the next day did another hike with a friend that was like a 22 or 23 mile traverse. It was just beautiful. And, uh, and then the day after that I went, I have also, I took swim lessons because I could prevent drowning, but not really swim, swim.
00:53:07
Speaker
And so, over the winter. And so I, have begun open water swimming. Oh, wow. I went, to went to a mountain lake and, ah in,
00:53:18
Speaker
basically almost the beginning of October, which is the water was 62 degrees Fahrenheit, which is about 16 degrees Celsius. Yeah, that's pretty brisk.
00:53:31
Speaker
So I went for probably like a half an hour swim. and it was just, I don't know, it was it was lovely to be out under the open sky and to just move my body through space and time and just be and kind of be out in nature in the mountains, just existing.
00:53:45
Speaker
And all under the steam of your own body as well, whether it be running, cycling or swimming. That's amazing. Exactly. So are you in there have you entered the triathlon world or is it just a coincidence that you've decided to take up a few different cross-training exercises?
00:54:00
Speaker
Primarily, I wanted it for the cross training. um i'm trying to figure out ways. I'm getting to the end of my 30s and I'm working towards, you know, into my 40s. And I really want to make exercise and moving my body sustainable.
00:54:17
Speaker
And i I have been dealing with arthritis from osteoarthritis in my ankles since I was in my early 20s from some injuries from athletics in my my childhood.
00:54:31
Speaker
And so I think it's always on my mind, the sustainability of it. And so I've been trying to find things that are less impact. So totally I've taken up swimming and taken up biking and, um, and I was like, okay, like if I can bike and swim and run, then I,
00:54:49
Speaker
probably should do a triathlon, right? Why not? So I did two sprint triathlons this summer. ah fantastic. Like one does, had my first panic attack in the water swimming on the first one where you're like, I did not realize this a contact sport.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yeah, nothing quite prepares you, does it, when you used to just swimming laps on your own, just super chill, and then you're thrown in the water with a bunch of other people thrashing around. And especially if you're new to swimming, I can imagine that's a whole other experience. How has it been learning something new as an adult and trying to not only just swim, but then swim somewhat competitively?
00:55:27
Speaker
What have you learned from that experience? I have always tended to learn physical activity more easily than other people. It's just something that makes sense to me. um My body and brain figure it out.
00:55:42
Speaker
I was surprised how much I liked open water swimming at the same time that it often made me feel incredibly anxious and panicked. I definitely have like a low key phobia of like the thing that lives at the bottom of the lake.
00:55:56
Speaker
And the water here is not very clear. So there's lots of opportunity for your imagination to run away with you. Oh, completely. It's funny. I do some ocean swimming and a bit of seaweed or a dark shadow and it doesn't take much to kind of set your imagination into full panic mode. And yeah, and it is, there's something very vulnerable, isn't there, about being in the water on your own, ah especially if the conditions are out of your control as well. And ah do you do it as a group or do you normally do it alone? Like how do you face your fears around that and try and find the joy in it?
00:56:30
Speaker
I had a wonderful friend, Heather, who loves triathlon and loves open water swimming. So she was very kind to introduce me to it, take me to the local lake about an hour away that is a very excellent place to go swimming. i had never really considered all the different things that go into picking where you would go and the best opportunity for that.
00:56:52
Speaker
And she's the one who was like, this is called a swim buoy. You should have one. Yeah. And so I started working with her first and then did a couple with her and have gone back to the lake by myself and have also brought my my partner with me as well. he has been swimming for a very, very, very long time, but had never really done a lot of open water swimming. so It's definitely something where his swim experience is much more substantial and taking him out into open water has been a really lovely activity to do together.
00:57:26
Speaker
Just learning how to float on my back and hyperventilate has been ah good skill. Oh, that's so good. No, it's, well, I guess in Australia, we kind of take it for granted. We are a very water-based nation. so swimming is something that's, you know, kind of embedded in a lot of our culture. and But at the same time, i think there's still a lot of fear that comes from it. As an adult, even if you did learn as a child, when you go from the safety of a swimming pool or something into the ocean or or a lake or something, and our imagination can certainly play tricks on us when we least need it to. Yeah.
00:58:01
Speaker
And how have you found, i guess, has your running improved since you've been spending more time and hiking improved since you've been yeah spending more time focusing on cross-training and less impact exercise?
00:58:12
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if it's improved. i feel like it has maintained and and changed in certain ways. Since we last talked, I have done, think, two more hundred mile runs.
00:58:24
Speaker
Oh, wow. So I did Mountain Lakes 100 last September, and that's out in ah Oregon State, out on the west coast of the United States. And that was beautiful and wonderful wonderful.
00:58:39
Speaker
Had a really, really great experience. They have a lot of really wonderful single track trail that's very smooth and easy to run. And had a lot of friends running it, so got to see people I knew.
00:58:50
Speaker
and that was excellent. I think that was about 20, 27 hours, 45 minutes thereabouts.
Camaraderie in Ultra Races
00:58:54
Speaker
twenty twenty seven hours forty five minutes they're about And then this here Massachusetts.
00:59:00
Speaker
june early june myself and another friend did a hundredm mile run nearby here in massachusetts And it turned out it was a nor'easter. So it poured rain for, i think, eight the first eight hours. And there was thick mud and parts of the the the course got closed for flooding and It was a little bit of an adventure, but we both did really fabulously. And I did the, ended up being 105 miles because they did back of the napkin math in the middle of the night when parts got closed.
00:59:36
Speaker
But I did the 100 miles in 26 hours flat. And then the last five I did in an hour. so it was 27 hours. that's That's a long time out on your feet. Yeah.
00:59:51
Speaker
It is, but it felt pretty good. it it felt pretty good. It was nice. It cooled off. It dried out. was a good time. And it'd be nice to do those things with the with a friend as well and share the experience and have that camaraderie together to to pull one another through.
01:00:10
Speaker
Very much so. And it was an out and back, so we saw each other quite a lot. And my friend ended up winning first place. They did it in 22 or hours and change.
01:00:21
Speaker
That's amazing. I think 22 hours.
01:00:24
Speaker
I was like, if if they're still running, i have to keep running, I guess.
01:00:30
Speaker
Oh, how fantastic. I guess, is the 100 miles still a, you know, how many is too many? Or when do you, you know, I guess now you're doing triathlons, but... The time to to train and to get the body condition to be out moving for that long is a huge time commitment.
01:00:48
Speaker
And asking for a friend slash myself, what do you get out of that kind of experience and what makes it, obviously the accomplishment must be incredible and that feeling of satisfaction, but what do you get out of it personally that makes you want to keep coming back for more?
01:01:01
Speaker
It's interesting, right? I do really big efforts by myself, quite often doing it all, you know, unsupported, me filtering my own water, going out and doing an adventure. So it's not that I can't get adventures without racing.
01:01:17
Speaker
I really enjoy having a training plan. I typically make my own and the training process itself can be honestly really rewarding, whether I race or not.
01:01:28
Speaker
And especially for a hundred miles, like it's not that different than a marathon training plan. Your long runs are just a little bit longer and you do a couple of back-to-back long runs. And and there is something about doing a hundred mile race that the vibes are amazing.
01:01:46
Speaker
And I think that sometimes keeps me coming back. and And not every race I've done has that, but like, for example, mountain lakes, the vibes were amazing. The people running the aid stations were so kind and so generous and so enthusiastic.
01:02:01
Speaker
And everybody there, it was all of us against the race. It was all of us against the distance and we're in it together and just encouraging each other And supporting each other and just like just getting across the finish line. That's what we're all there for.
01:02:18
Speaker
And watching how long people stayed, even after they had finished at 20 something hours, they would stay until the 30 hour cutoff. And then they were still letting people finish for the last couple of hours. They let people finish and they would be like, put them in as a DNF, but give them like a finisher, like medal or mug, know,
01:02:38
Speaker
It's like you did the distance. It took a little longer than you thought, but you still finished. And everybody is there like cheering everyone on as they finish. And that energy, it's hard to find that on your own.
01:02:49
Speaker
Oh, completely. And I think we've just recently had our big event of the year. It's called the Pillager Ultra. And I wasn't competing in that event, but being one of the organizers, I feel like you get a very similar experience when you are on the sidelines versus running. And you appreciate everything that that person has put into and you feel so invested.
01:03:10
Speaker
And we always make a real effort to keep the finish line vibes high for the back of the Packers who come in under cutoff because in many ways they've done it the toughest. Like they've been out there the longest and sometimes, you know, twice as long as the the person who might've crossed the finish line first. But,
01:03:27
Speaker
It's a challenge against yourself and that time and that distance. And you just feel so bonded with everyone who you've seen out on the trail and been a part of. And I remember my first ultra I ever did. i was like, this is like, as soon as I crossed the finish line, I was like, this is why people do this and like put themselves through this absolute torture just for that, like, you know, five minutes of of hugs and elation that you get as soon as you cross that finish line. And you know that you can...
01:03:53
Speaker
but you've it that you've done it. and And I think that's the beauty of ultra running is that people often just out there to like you said, challenge themselves. It's not a it's not a race against anyone it's apart from what you think you're capable of. And so many people realize so much about themselves during those 30 hours that you're just toughing it out, especially in what sounds like really tough conditions.
01:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, watching how much people want it, like putting their hearts into it. I would watch mid-pack, back-of-pack people finish all day long.
01:04:26
Speaker
It's so good. You just want to finish. And that's that's the glory of it is you made it. And I've also been doing quite a, you know, still working on backpacking quite a bit and some hiking as well.
01:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, I see on your socials that you've um been doing the NH48 peaks, which I learned is the northern New Hampshire east coast um part of the states where you're based. all the There's 48 peaks over 4,000 feet, which is equivalent to about 1,200 metres here in Australia. And yeah, you've done all 48 of them. That's incredible. Oh no, sorry, not 48, 572, excuse me.
01:05:07
Speaker
ah five five hundred seventy six Oh, wow. it's every one of the 48 peaks every month of the year. Wow. that's i was going to say my maths isn't massing, but that is like incredible.
01:05:22
Speaker
And so when did you start and finish that 12 months of peak bagging? There are a few people who've done it in a single year period. I did most of the peaks between 2023 and 2025 with a couple of peaks starting as far back as 2014 or 2015.
01:05:44
Speaker
But most most of them have been the last couple of years where I was driving up after work on Friday, hiking Friday night, Saturday, Sunday until evening, getting in the car, driving home.
01:05:56
Speaker
and then going to work on Monday and doing that two or three weekends a month, a lot of the time, sleeping in my car and doing that, you know, including January, February, March, high winter where I'm snowshoeing and I'm regularly seeing temperatures below zero degrees.
01:06:14
Speaker
Wow. You must've seen, I don't know, just the beauty of those, though that landscape in every single season. Yeah. Do you have a favorite? Or I guess that's the beauty of going out 12 months is the year as you get to see the same place in you know constant flux and the the beautiful colors and animals and changes that would come with that seasonal change.
01:06:35
Speaker
So hard to narrow them down. Mount Garfield always had a beautiful, beautiful view. gives you this pretty epic view of ah a really large area. It's called the Pemagwasit Wilderness.
01:06:48
Speaker
And you can see a bunch of peaks that kind of go in this big circle. And that one is one of my favorites. And also the view for the effort is pretty excellent. That's a good thing to consider.
01:07:03
Speaker
yeah And I guess that's a pretty like full on lifestyle to be, you know, working five days a week and then getting out as much as you can. i guess now that you've kind of taken your foot off the gas a bit in that regard, how, I don't know, how do you reflect on that time of your life when you were so so committed to getting outdoors and what advantages or disadvantages did it have on you know, your life?
01:07:27
Speaker
normal life, if you will, your Monday to Friday. Because I think that a lot of us live for the weekends in the terms of that's when we do the things that we love to do. But At the same time, it can feel like the daily grind of all of that feels greater than the the joy than we get on weekends. And you can wonder what we're, you know, what's the point of it
Balancing Outdoor Activities & Life
01:07:47
Speaker
all?
01:07:47
Speaker
So as someone who has, I guess, done that in a really intentional way, what lessons have you taken away from it I mean, I just finished in August. So it's still like I'm and feel still processing a little bit and feeling a little,
01:08:02
Speaker
um a little unmoored, ah to be honest, because it has been such a ah central part of my month to month existence for ah number of years.
01:08:14
Speaker
There was definitely ah an interesting place where people in the day to day kind of at work don't really get it. They're like, wait, you're going away again.
01:08:25
Speaker
to do the same thing. ah Didn't you just do that last month? And then they'd be like, oh, right. You're going to go climb mountains again this weekend. Right. Okay, cool. Anyway. So I was doing this other thing.
01:08:36
Speaker
um and people stopped wanting to hear about it where they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You did something silly and it was really cold and probably really wet and rainy. Right. And I'm like, that is correct. Yeah.
01:08:48
Speaker
And so like finding people who were doing the same thing or similar things was really helpful because it's called a grid and I've heard people call each other griddiots.
01:08:59
Speaker
It's not wrong. found your people. Yeah. That's the good thing about the world these days is that whatever you're into, there'll be other people who enjoy doing the same thing as, you know, wacky as it might sound to your fellow co-worker around the water cooler, but it's an amazing accomplishment. And Yeah, it'd be interesting to see, you know, give it a few months when you have settled more into a bit of a I don't know, normal, so to speak, routine and the bits that you try and replicate or the bits that you want to kind of maintain to have that outlet to reconnect to nature and like youre saying before, disconnect from the new cycle and the reality, if you will, and find solace out on the trails amongst the mountains.
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah. I'm always looking forward at new projects. Since the time we talked, I finished through hiking or long-ass section hiking, the Pacific Crest Trail. I finished that in July 2023. Yeah.
01:09:54
Speaker
And then i also finished hiking, i think in 2023 as well. I did the Arizona Trail. So I did that in two different pieces.
01:10:05
Speaker
And then last year in 2024, threw hiked the Colorado Trail. So that's... Yeah. like border to border across the state of colorado but it's four hundred and seventy five miles um through the colorado rockies the san juans it's beautiful and most of it is at ah between like ten and thirteen thousand feet of elevation And so the the altitude was quite a lot, but it was it rained twice a day for the last seven days and I was on trail, ah which is not typical, but it was epic and beautiful.
01:10:43
Speaker
That's amazing. And I guess just for context for our Australian listeners, for example, Mount Donabuang in Melbourne ah sits at 1200 or Kanani in Mount Wellington is roughly 1200. So you're maintaining that kind of elevation consistently and going up.
01:10:59
Speaker
quite considerably as well because in Australia we call them mountains, but by comparison they're kind of hills from what you're used to over there, but we we do what we can.
01:11:10
Speaker
But yeah, um to say altitude, yeah, altitude isn't a thing in Australia, hiking, but um there's still some pretty gnarly territory. And before we started recording, you mentioned that it has, well, it is an incredibly difficult time over there in the States and like I was saying, we kind of get the worst of the news in terms of whatever makes it all the way across here is generally so unfathomably ridiculous and divisive and disgusting that, you know, it makes news. But with that in mind, it is obviously is a difficult time, but how, I don't know, how is your community? Obviously funding cuts to so many things that matter, including D, I, and A, but
01:11:52
Speaker
On a personal perspective, how has, i guess, the last, you know, six months since Trump has come to the presidency again, been for for you and your community? It's been really, really tough.
01:12:06
Speaker
Things were already difficult in so many ways prior.
01:12:12
Speaker
You know, the first couple of months, everyone was like, well, it's just the initial onslaught. It's meant to be disorienting. Things will slow down. And most of people in my community are like, no, this has been the plan.
01:12:27
Speaker
They have had pretty clear plans for a while. The eradication of transgender people is literally one of their goals. And it's been interesting because I think on one hand, it's been kind of interesting to watch more liberal people be very, they can't really sit on the fence anymore about trans rights and like LGBTQ rights in general.
01:12:52
Speaker
They kind of have to pick a side. It's very obvious. It's like, there is no middle ground at this point. There is no like, well, but I like devil's advocate. Yeah. I think it's just more clear to people that it has always been like the the attack on trans athletes.
01:13:09
Speaker
It was always meant to be a Trojan horse. It was always meant to get people comfortable discriminating against a group of people. That's always been the goal. That's not ever where they wanted to stop. That was just the beginning.
01:13:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's a way to kind of plant seeds of doubt or quest to get people to kind of sense a grey area that then they can just totally exploit. and we're lucky in that we've got a progressive party in power in Australia, but the conservative party are a thousand percent just playing out of the Trump playbook. And we were so relieved that and we had a general election earlier this year that you know we didn't We went towards the left and not the right, but people are still working bloody hard to try and take us backwards. And I think seeing what was unfolding in the States made a lot of people scared and think, no, this isn't just the beginning. This is a path forward that is trying to be established and just erode so much of the progress that we had made over the past few years.
01:14:06
Speaker
in times like this, community is so important. And has the trail, like your community, immediate physical community in Massachusetts, and how have people rallied together to try and, I guess, support each other through this time and find, you know, glimmers of hope and light at the end of the tunnel in what is just a very difficult time?
01:14:26
Speaker
mean, I think in general, folks have been you know, really continuing the work that they've been doing in making races more open and welcoming to everyone, both trans folks, particularly trans women, and also having like non-binary categories for folks who don't want to be in the men's or women's category.
01:14:45
Speaker
So it's been nice to have race directors continue the same work that they've always been doing, often with a louder voice ah to make a point that this is who they are and that's not changing.
01:14:58
Speaker
And so that has been very welcome to see. And I've gotten some friends into ultra running and there's, you know, A couple of my friends just finished their first 50K.
01:15:11
Speaker
And so that was delightful to get to be there at the finish line. um And they were like, that was really fun. Let's do that again. You're like, yes, I've converted you. Success.
01:15:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's often those small ways, isn't it, that people as individuals can kind of push for the change, even if the tide is trying to pull people and in another direction. And I guess what at the at this time, it can be a tricky time to find it, but what is giving you hope um to end on a try slightly positive note, hopefully, what you know what is it that you've got coming up that you're excited about or things that you see that, yeah, give you hope that this is a ah period in time and we will get back to where we are and not only there, but continue to push for for diversity and equity and inclusion in not only sports, but, you know, everywhere in it, just in our daily lives so everyone can experience safety and, you know, the the lives that people deserve.
01:16:13
Speaker
I think in general, we can help create the local things that we want to be in the world. Like we can make what we want to see. And so i've been I've been a little more involved with a couple of local trail organizations that put on really awesome races that I just want to support the work they're doing because they're doing amazing work.
01:16:31
Speaker
And so since the election, I've definitely been focusing a little more on like hyper-local, like what's going on in my town, what's going on in the next town over, How can I support the people that are doing good work already? i don't have to build something new. I can just support what's there.
01:16:47
Speaker
And for me, I've also been reaching out to friends more often and checking in on people and saying, do you want to go for a run? Do you want to go for a walk? if you're sick, do need me to bring you anything?
01:17:00
Speaker
And creating more of a sense of of intentional community and support where we are. For me, it feels a lot like suicide prevention. It kind of starts there, you know making sure that you know that somebody's going to want to know, how are you doing? Are you okay?
01:17:16
Speaker
And want to hear how you're doing. And then also just trying to find new and interesting ways to get outside. i started doing cross-country skiing, Nordic skiing this last winter.
01:17:29
Speaker
something I had wanted to to get into. And so i put a lot of effort into that last winter. And so this winter, I'm very excited to start doing longer distances, maybe outside of like a groomed area.
01:17:43
Speaker
So there's ah there's in the the state of Vermont, there's the Vermont Long Trail, which is one of the older through hiking trails. And there's a parallel trail that's just a lower elevation version of it that's only open in the wintertime because it's on private property and they don't want trails created.
01:18:02
Speaker
But in winter, they're they're fine with people skiing or snowshoeing through. and it's called the Catamount Trail. And it goes end to end and ends on the Canadian border. And so it's, you know, 200 something miles. So I am considering section hiking it for the winter and found some, some huts that you can cross country ski between the huts.
01:18:25
Speaker
And so I'm going to do like a three night, four day trip this winter as well. So excited about that. And then I'm continuing to plan, For completing the Continental Divide Trail, I started that this spring, went and did a good portion of New Mexico, went through the Gila River wilderness, crossed the Gila River 150 times in 50 miles.
01:18:50
Speaker
Wow. It makes me think that maybe there's something like that in Australia where you're just like walking through a river over and over again, maybe. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah, there's a few up in the high country where, yeah you start kind of getting fussy about it. But then after like the fifth time, you're like, no, just plow on through. Like, this is ridiculous. who We'll be here all day otherwise.
01:19:12
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you've, as always, Aubrey, you've got so much on your plate and so much to look forward to. And I'm just in awe of all the places that you've been and all the places that you get to see.
01:19:25
Speaker
Yeah, Australia is a big country, but I think that the amount of trails and infrastructure and also like trails that kind of don't really exist, but yet you manage to find is just incredible. I think that your your sleuthing skills on GPX and GPS files must be unlike any other.
01:19:43
Speaker
Which is fantastic because, I don't know, it's just so cool to hear. And I think as well, hear what you're doing, but also that you can just break these things up and do them bit by bit. Like you don't have to look at something like the Continental Divide Trail and be like, I need to take months off work or, you know, put my life on hold and go and do this thing and be that... person for a while and then go back to being the person who works every day or whatever, but you can do both. And I think with that comes longevity as well, because it's a sustainable way to go about things and you're not just kind of toggling between the two constantly and feeling like when you're one person, you want to be the other and and vice versa. And I feel like that's definitely where I find myself. It's like, you're either at the office or you're doing an adventure and it's like, you can, you know, how can you incorporate bits of those adventure into your Every day or every weekend or every now and then just to have those um time added nature to to take stock and to take it easy because I think we could all do with a bit more time yeah away from screens and news and just looking at the stars and enjoying the the mountains.
01:20:49
Speaker
And sometimes I go out and I do things that remind me of exactly why we have inside and houses and soft couches and... And supermarkets and... Filtered water. Oh, totally. Exactly. it's It all works together, doesn't it? You need one to appreciate the other and vice versa. And yeah, there's a lot we've got to be grateful for. And sometimes it can feel, you know, we take it for granted. Whereas, yeah, when you've...
01:21:18
Speaker
been in those sub-zero evenings in your tent, you'll be like, yeah, my my cozy bed's looking pretty good right about now. Yes, indeed. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to check in with us, Aubrey. It's really amazing to see that you've ticked off so many of those adventures that you had underway and now you've started new adventures. And yeah, we'll provide your um socials handle, which is genderqueer underscore hiker in the show notes so people can follow along on your adventures and also your blog where you continue to write about your adventures and and share your perspective
01:21:53
Speaker
um and experiences in the world, which are all very, yeah, make for amazing reading. And I'm not sure how many hours you have in your day, Aubrey, but they seem to be a lot more than everyone else's. So it's it's truly remarkable. And yeah, thanks so much for taking the time. It's really nice to catch up and yeah, know that across the ocean, we're all looking on with hope and optimism for what's to come over in the States because yeah, it's a truly...
01:22:21
Speaker
I feel like we say it too often, but unimprecedented time. And yeah, we just hope that, I don't know, the axis wrightens itself and we can change is coming. Yeah, well we'll find our way through one way or another. Yes, exactly. We always do.
01:22:38
Speaker
Well, um yeah, thanks so much taking for the time, Aubrey. And look after yourself.
Conclusion & Farewell
01:22:42
Speaker
Safe travels. Enjoy winter and your cross-country skiing escapades. Thank you so much for having me.
01:22:49
Speaker
Lovely. Well, have an excellent evening, day. i'm not sure where you're up to over there, but yeah, appreciate you taking the time and we'll be in touch. Sounds good. Thank you so much. And that's the finish line of our 10th trail chat.
01:23:02
Speaker
Thank you, Aubrey, for taking the time to chat with us and sharing your stories from the trail and sharing great resources for us all to engage with becoming better allies on the trails. If you'd like to see and hear more from Aubrey, you can follow them on socials at genderqueer underscore hiker or via Aubrey's blog, transcendingmountains.blog.
01:23:22
Speaker
If you've liked what you've heard and want to stay in touch with For Wild Places, then follow us online at For Wild Places or subscribe to our newsletter. Every Friday, we'll pop into your inbox, bringing you interviews with athletes and activists, events, info, and everything trails, environment, and adventure.
01:23:39
Speaker
If you love what you're hearing and reading, then we'd love for you to become a member so you can support the ongoing sustainability of For Wild Places. Find out more at forwildplaces.com forward slash membership.
01:23:51
Speaker
Thank you again for joining us. We are absolutely stoked to have you here. Thank you to Aubrey for taking the time, to Lara Hamilton for our theme music, and to Nico for editing this episode. Until next time, folks, happy trails.
01:24:04
Speaker
And as always, thank you for taking the time for Wild Places.