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6. Lessons from 25 years in ultra running with Krissy Moehl
40 Plays1 month ago
US race director, coach, author, and pioneer of the US ultrarunning scene, Krissy Moehl, joins us to chat about all things longevity, community, patience, and adventure. Krissy is a legend of ultra running and has been a part of the sport from its early dirtbag days to race calling at UTMB in 2024. Krissy's lessons in life and running are invaluable, so much so that she's written the go-to book on running your first ultra.
After our initial chat from 2023, we checked in with Krissy in early 2025 to hear how her 23rd-year race directing at the Chuckanut 50 is shaping up and the importance of the community during difficult times.
You can follow along on Krissy's adventures on Instagram, check out her impressive racing history or buy a book on her website, or find out more about the Chuckanut 50.
To hear more from For Wild Places, subscribe to our newsletter or become a member.
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Transcript
Introduction to For Wild Places podcast
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to the For Wild Places podcast. This is a podcast that shares the stories of inspiring people and their adventures in running, adventure and advocacy. I'm your host,
Meet Chrissy Mayle: Ultra Running Pioneer
00:00:30
Speaker
Hilary.
00:00:30
Speaker
Today, we are excited to bring you our Trail Track with Chrissy Mayle. Every month, we catch up with athletes, leaders, activists, and inspiring people to talk about past or future adventures, their favorite wild places, and the connection between adventure and activism.
00:00:44
Speaker
In this trail chat from September 2022, we catch up with race director, coach, author, and pioneer of the US ultra running scene, Chrissy Mayle. But before we jump into the chat, I would like to acknowledge the First Nations people who have been custodians of land, waters and culture for tens of thousands of years.
00:01:02
Speaker
We understand that the wild places we love to explore on this continent have been cared for by First Nations people for millennia. We seek to learn from the world's oldest living culture so we too can care for country, as the Indigenous people of this continent have done since time immemorial.
00:01:17
Speaker
This podcast was recorded and edited on Wadawurrung country in so-called Australia, where sovereignty was never ceded. This always was, and will be, Aboriginal land.
The Joy of Running and Community Bonding
00:01:27
Speaker
Our guest today, Chrissy, is a legend of the US trail and ultra running scene and has traveled all around the country competing, pacing, exploring, and soaking up the joys of being in nature with her best friend, PD.
00:01:40
Speaker
Our initial chat has some scratchy audio, but we've done our best to clean it up so you can soak up Chrissy's wisdom and hear all that she's learned in the 25 years she spent running ultra marathons.
00:01:51
Speaker
We hear how Chrissy first got into competing, followed by race directing, and last but not least, writing the go-to book on running your first ultra. We then check in with Chrissy three years later to find out what's been bringing her joy and what's changed at the Chuckanut 50.
00:02:06
Speaker
We also chat about race calling at UTMB and the importance of coming together as a community in challenging times.
Chrissy's Life Transition and Adventures
00:02:12
Speaker
Let's get into our conversation with Chrissy Mayle. Got it. Okay.
00:02:17
Speaker
Welcome everybody to For Wild Places' fifth trail chat. My name's Will, based in Port Kembla, which is on Darawa land on the New South Wales south coast. First thing i want to do is acknowledge the traditional owners of this land, pay our respects to elders past, present and future.
00:02:35
Speaker
ah We are stoked today to have as our special guest a legend of the sport. As Hill wrote in the little bio, she literally wrote the book on running your first ultra. and That's pretty amazing. Her running resume is way too vast to run through all of the amazing achievements and things that she's done. So without further ado, please welcome k Chrissy Mayle.
00:03:00
Speaker
That's just so a nice way of saying that I've been running a really long time. Yes. Now, look, Chrissy, there's a bunch of people who wanted to ask questions and I feel like we could, we we won't have enough time to to have a proper chat with you, I know. So we just keep these things pretty pretty chill. We'll have a bit of a chat and then open it up for anyone else to ask questions a bit later.
00:03:20
Speaker
But how are you and what are you up to? Oh, that's really nice and general way to start. We were chatting a little bit before about my transition from van life into living in a house and having yard work. But I guess a quick summary would just be, I feel like the pandemic was like a bow and arrow and we got like pulled way back and we were held back here for a bit. And 2022 has just felt like a release and like travels and moving around and being engaged with people again. And some of it ready for some of it feeling kind of overwhelmed and in the stark contrast between what the pandemic felt like and what the summer
00:03:59
Speaker
felt like. So yeah, I got to pace. I made a commitment to pacing a lot of like friends and coaching clients and people that needed help this summer and volunteering at races. And that had me in Colorado and California and Montana and here in Washington. And then some fun trips up to back to Wyoming and up to Whistler. So just this Northwest corner is so spectacular. And to see it through the lens of volunteering and supporting people in their races, I i really i had a great summer. that was great. How are you guys doing over there? did how did Does that resonate, that like bow and arrow sensation? Yeah. In fact, was just thinking here
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, it felt like the same. And really, events are still really only getting back on track now after the pandemic because things were cancelled and postponed.
Pandemic Effects on Racing and Activism
00:04:50
Speaker
But I think in the States, like events have been back on for for quite a while, yeah? About a year. We had our... the checking it DK is the event that I race track.
00:05:02
Speaker
and And this is my 20 year director. and we have the year that we did not get to put on the in-person event. So 2022, felt like in March, like when we registered people in December, we had to have a mandatory vaccination requirement for people.
00:05:18
Speaker
But in those four months it took to get to the rate or three and a half months it took to get to the race, The psychology around vaccination requirement had totally changed. It just, to me, it showed how much it it flexed and flexed it went through so many changes yeah went through so many changes in that short amount of time where we got a lot of pushback saying, why do you have to be vaccinated? And i was like, you think back to December when we made the rule, we have to, you can't all of a sudden say, oh no, now you don't have to be vaccinated because those people that are following the rules back in December, had to acknowledge that so i feel like yes we've been back on maybe a little bit longer but it's been through like a lot of turmoil like it hasn't been like super smooth necessarily there's been a lot of bumps along the way to to getting getting back are we still getting back kind of feeling yeah and then like hard rock ended up being kind of a super spreader event so that was kind of a nut
00:06:09
Speaker
Wow yeah oh what a shame during that initial period were you just hanging around hanging around near home like like like when they're when events were called off and things were cancelled like you know because for many of us it was it was an awful time but in some ways it was a lovely time because you could stay at home and just hang out in your local area and if you're lucky enough to live in a beautiful area which which I am awesomely it was actually pretty nice but was that it was that the case for you Yeah, I had an interesting living situation at the time and I um sold my condo July of 2020. So right in the pandemic, like in the early part of it and lived in the van and the whole van life thing. The idea is like travel around, chase the weather, do all that. Look at that lovely kitty. Yeah.
00:06:55
Speaker
to chase the weather and everything. But I felt a commitment to my community and this place of work, the Prime Sports Institute, to not be traveling and exposing myself to the so the virus potentially when we really didn't know that much about it.
00:07:09
Speaker
So I stayed put and it was an interesting experience of van life. Like, hopping between city parks and some people's driveways. Cause you didn't want, i didn't want to infiltrate other people's homes. And, but I do love where I live and being in the van with my dog was so simple and like sleeping at trail heads and just but keeping it really guess basic for a while was quite a spin for someone that,
00:07:33
Speaker
like has traveled as much as I have. Christy, I just had a a slight tangent. You just made me think of something because we're obviously a sports activist organization where we're we're runners with ah with a purpose, mainly around the environment and and protecting wild places. ah A really difficult thing with the pandemic was a lot of the ways we talk about making change and and making social change is is getting together with other people and it was so hard when you couldn't do that but again like starting to see that that interaction kind of bounce back and we've been able to have our first big big race last year now last year
00:08:05
Speaker
No, it was this year. I keep thinking it was last year too. It was in March. It was in March. Which feels like, I think you're right, Chrissy, because everything is like flogged back so quickly. It feels like it was last year because it just so much has happened in 2022 compared to past years. Yeah, I've lost track of the years. I was going to ask you about the state of how's the kind of sports activism movement and and runners in particular going in the US and have campaigns been able to bounce back after the pandemic? Absolutely. My two cents or impression of is yes, that there has been bounce back. And if anything, that they got pullback that the pandemic provided is a time to like learn, right? And as these issues become forefront in our mind or our present, a lot of times we get like, yeah, but I got to do, you know, the 500 other things. Well, we didn't have 500 other things to do during the pandemic. So you actually could pay attention and maybe research a little bit or read more or engage more in some of these things that you've always thought you'd want time for. So like silver lining to the pandemic was if if people chose to utilize time that way, they could engage more. And I feel like, like what I've learned or I've seen with runners for public lands, they've really excelled in these last couple of years in terms of the movements their board has taken to
00:09:18
Speaker
creep I'm really stoked about um they're launching this, call it like a user guide for race directors on how to make our events more socially active. Like how do we engage more groups so that everybody on the starting line doesn't look like me?
00:09:33
Speaker
Or how do we do land acknowledgement? Or how do we, gosh, what are some, I'm trying to think of the bullet points. I got to work on the manual a little bit in the early stages and it's been a couple of months. I don't know if it's the time that people had at home and this stuff has become or be because people have spent more time engaging and now they want to do more. But I feel like it's been a benefit. Do you feel like you've seen the same New Zealand? Yeah.
00:09:56
Speaker
Oh, and hey sorry to pull you up, but we're actually in Australia. yeah Oh, don't mix those two up. Sorry. Well, for us, because we started at the start of the pandemic because we did have all this time to work on a lot of the governance and those things that do take a lot of time to set up. And often they, you just want to go out there and do the things. So you don't actually sit at home and do all that due diligence, set up the kind of foundation that allows you to then have an organization that can excel into the future. And so we kind of saw that as a, it's annoying because we can't do our events and we had to postpone our events.
00:10:27
Speaker
several times, but at least let's use this period, build a solid foundation. So then when we can go out and do events, we've got all the paperwork and documentation and that kind of stuff squared away and we can focus on the fun stuff. And there's been a lot of other kind of environmentally focused groups come out around the same time as us.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I think it was, you know, frustration with the government here and their lack of action. But then also people just had a lot of time to kind of reflect and think, hang on, I want to have a ah greater purpose and use this time.
00:10:56
Speaker
We kind of can't do much in a positive way that would have long, long lasting impacts.
Chrissy’s Running Journey and Lessons Learned
00:11:01
Speaker
Chrissie, I just had a couple of questions that have come in from um members and and other folks who really wanted to yeah hear from you and and get to know you.
00:11:09
Speaker
How did you actually get into running in the first place? Oh, boy. I feel like I've been a life runner for sure. There's photos of me back doing like the grade school mile or whatever. But um trail running and ultra running were my life.
00:11:21
Speaker
I feel like. running became full circle in terms of, I always put a lot of energy into being a runner through high school, college, and it's like road races in the summer. And that kind of thing was when I found the trail running community and I'd studied abroad in Ecuador and found myself going for runs on like uncoached.
00:11:39
Speaker
Like I'd always had a coach telling me what to do and very type A. So I followed what the coach said to do, but here I was writing my own plan. I wasn't even writing a plan. I just enjoyed going running. And I just did these long Miles where coaches would be like no more than 90 minutes or no more than 60 minutes.
00:11:55
Speaker
Anyways, when I came home serendipitously, the running store that I had been working at to pay for college had been purchased by a man named Scott McCubrey. And he hired this guy named Scott Jurek who had just won his first Western States.
00:12:10
Speaker
And I fell into this hub that later got recognized as like an ultra running coach. Call it like a gem of like where a lot of people came out of how Kerner, Ian Torrance, myself, William Emerson, Scott jerk, like these people that all congregated and came in and went on these Sunday morning trail runs and Thursday night temple runs.
00:12:29
Speaker
And we've all gone on to have like a pretty deep connection to the ultra and trail running communities. So that was in 2000 and 2000, 2001. Wow. Yeah.
00:12:40
Speaker
wow um yeah So falling in with the right people at the right time. And Scott went on to win seven Western States. He just won his first one. And so just kind of and people say, how do you make that all happen? It's like, well, I don't know that you can plan that.
00:12:54
Speaker
That's just yeah kind of where my, my heart, I, my, I fell and then my heart continued to follow for sure. That's awesome. I first read about Scott in a born to run. Yeah. Oh yeah. I always tease him about like the way Chris McDougall talks about his flowing Greek curls and stuff like that. I'm like more like a little sister the, I mean, of course I'm a fan of him, but I'm more of like a little sister pester than I am like,
00:13:18
Speaker
Oh, that's so cool. I've read a few interviews with you actually. I think I may know the answer to this question, but um but we wanted to ask, of all the running you've done, like can you identify a moment that that um that you just experienced the most joy? Oh, I think that happened a lot.
00:13:33
Speaker
Yeah. and It's like running is the most. Yeah. I just, I just feel like I'm so lucky that running is such a constant thing. Like, like life can feel like it's in turmoil. And I, if I can get out on a run, even like this morning, I just didn't start the day. I just, you know, you call it wake up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever. And so I just made an effort and got out.
00:13:53
Speaker
I have a little lake that I can do a lot from my house around and the sun was like beaming and but bouncing off the lake. And it's like just there for me. And I that's it's not answering your question of the most joy, but just that it can provide that pretty much anytime I'm looking for it.
00:14:10
Speaker
I'm really thankful for that. Yeah, excellent answer. Now I'm bit the same where it's, there is there's just a feeling that it's nice to be recreated. Yeah, pretty, pretty regularly, actually, where you just you're just back in that spot where, yeah, actually, bizarrely, oh, no, I won't tell that story. Because this, um this trail chat's not about me. Let's let let's get back to you, Chrissy. Oh, but I like stories.
00:14:30
Speaker
as It's not that interesting, actually. I actually watched a um a TED talk that you gave a few years ago and you talked about a very challenging moment. It's been 11 years ago. 11 years ago, yeah. I'm having a lot of those moments of like, that was 10 years ago? Oh my gosh. I i know, know.
00:14:49
Speaker
Describing that that Western States, like looking back, is that your is that your most challenging moment, do reckon, still? Most challenging in that it went against everything I knew. and i and I think that's a good thing, right? To like try try something different.
00:15:04
Speaker
In that case, like intentionally go for a win. And I never had to that point. And honestly, don't. really haven't since started a race to win it where I do best is where I run the race, see how it unfolds, check in halfway, three quarters of the way, where I'm at and then race to win.
00:15:27
Speaker
But to go into it racing to win, i personally, i just, I didn't make the right decisions along the way to ensure that I finished well. The iron irony of that was, is I finished in second place and in one of my fastest times, but to put myself in the medical tent and to be there for six hours and to put my mother through the stress that I did, none of that was worth it.
00:15:53
Speaker
So I just, it it wasn't worth it to me to race in such a, um risky way. I've, I do better with the like enjoyment, maybe a little bit conservative, but like awareness way to ensure that the getting there is going to get there in a good state. Like I love being able to celebrate with people to finish, not be off on a cot somewhere. So in that sense, yeah, it was, remains one of the most challenging things.
00:16:23
Speaker
Race experiences. The other one I would say that comes to mind UTMB 2011. I ended up having to drop. I went into it way over trained and learned a hard lesson from like literally being too thin. Like I lost lost weight in my overtraining and not having enough reserves.
00:16:41
Speaker
That when the weather turned bad and I missed my crew, i didn't have anything to be able to keep going and um had had to drop. And I've only dropped from like two races in 22 years. And that was one of them.
00:16:53
Speaker
Those drops are hard, right? Like I knew I made the right decision for myself at the time. i guess the disappointing part was I didn't go into the race as prepared, meaning recovered. Like I was really well-trained, over-trained, like knowing that that balance of recovery, had learn it the hard way there.
00:17:12
Speaker
Chrissy, back to your um ah discussion around the challenging moment and that that Western States. I just thought that lesson was so useful because you went out to win from the start. You went out hard, just almost burnt out so quickly. It just kind of sounded like it it took the joy a bit out of the run, took the fun out of the run. And ironically, yeah when you have the opposite approach and you start just with the participation and the vibes from people, weirdly, yeah you end up running as good, sometimes better times anyway.
00:17:40
Speaker
but anyway, I really liked that talk. That message still holds through 11 years later. So I read the article in called the outside mag, cause I'm actually, I'm actually older than you and I'm really interested in the maintaining fitness and basically like injury prevention. As I get older, I'm still a pretty new runner and not a very good runner. um But, but i I want to be able to run for as long as I can. Yeah. I found that That article really interesting. And again I, again, know this is a much longer conversation, but I just wondered if you could give like one or two bits of advice for folks our age getting on, what are some of the key things we should be looking to doing to to be able to maintain our and ability going forward?
00:18:20
Speaker
Oh, definitely. um they They could pop off three words or definitely, like you said, it could be a really long conversation. And I've been curious about it from the perspective of, I started this long distance running at 21 years old.
00:18:33
Speaker
So now at 45, I have 24 years of doing these long distances where when I got into the sport, a lot of my mentors had started in their 30s. So i by the time I got to my 30s, there was already 10 years of these miles. So I became curious about, is it mileage? Is it age? Like, how does this all play out kind of thing? And I'm not saying I have all the answers, but it's been really cool to observe and pay attention. And I think it made me really aware in my first decade to, it just sounds weird to say that to do the thing, like the precautionary things as best I could, but with the information that I had falling on those words, those pop words that I would say is nutrition, recovery, consistency, and strength training.
00:19:21
Speaker
So having those as like primary focuses rather than racing too much, or trying to make weight as ah as a top priority or just running to run and and skipping out on strength training. like There's a lot of ways to run 100 miles. There's a lot of ways to get from the couch to whatever distance you want to do.
00:19:44
Speaker
But through and through, i found that that those, and I would add joy to it, those five things are what... When people focus on those, that's where I see longevity. When you start to make decisions around like the fastest thing I can do or the quickest way to get there or skipping out on, or that's when we start to falter and,
00:20:07
Speaker
gosh, if it's not a parallel to the rest of life too. Like I think running teaches us a lot about life and life can teach us a lot about running. I tended to have a hard time applying all the amazing lessons I learned from running to life. That's why I feel like this decade is about like, I learned this running.
00:20:23
Speaker
Why didn't I like figure out how to apply this life? But Hey, we can continually learn. Right. So yeah. I, yeah. Nutrition recovery, strength, training, joy. And what was the other one I said?
00:20:35
Speaker
Nutrition recovery, strength training, joy and consistency. that So I would prefer somebody go out for five days a week, but two to five miles, than to do 15 miles one day a week on a weekend.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, right. In terms of like teaching the body every 24 hours, this is what we do. And I really dug into women's health in the last... gosh, I would say seven to eight years, so just out of pure curiosity of what my hormones are going to do to me as I change.
00:21:06
Speaker
Like I've been so curious of how that will factor in. And in trying to learn about that, there was so much i missed in my earlier years that we weren't taught about how we can work with our hormones for our training benefit. We were just told that that's like a, so it wasn't even included in. So there's fortunately a lot more research being done on women's bodies now, and especially, and also aging women's bodies and aging athletes, women's bodies. I'm a big fan of Stacey, Dr. Stacey Sims work who's New Zealand. She's close by.
00:21:39
Speaker
um And her co-writer, Selene Jaeger, Yeah. They've been really instrumental in getting my mind to like think differently about how that factors into training.
00:21:51
Speaker
And it really plays into the recovery pace. It plays into like motivation. a lot of times, um, nutrition changes a lot as we age. And I'm speaking from the female standpoint, but I think it happens for all genders, so like how our body responds to physical stress, um,
00:22:09
Speaker
nutritional needs, all that. Like if we don't pay attention to it and we think we can just follow one formula, that's where we, I think there's some big misses. I get really excited about like, how do we make this like the long-term thing? Like I love running so much. I want to be able to do it ongoing. So how do I, how do I make sure that happens?
00:22:28
Speaker
Not pushing through three, that kind of thing. Yes. I'm already sitting here thinking, oh man, we've got half an hour left. Maybe we should organize a whole other session just on this topic. Yeah. um My dad had few years ago decided that he, dad used to be a great runner, but he just decided he can't do it anymore because his back hurts and and he's about to turn 70. He's not that old.
00:22:47
Speaker
and And my mum has just convinced him to, but like they're aiming just to do the, like the work up to the 5K and they're they're doing some, you know, walk then jog, then walk then jog.
00:22:57
Speaker
And he was so pumped after the first one because it was a mind thing around. He just decided he couldn't do it anymore. But some of those things like the consistency are really useful. I'm going to pass that on because I haven't struggled with that in that if i haven't been able to run for a week, I want to go out and run a really long one on the weekend to make up for it. But yeah, I think what you're saying is that's not the thing to.
00:23:18
Speaker
yeah yeah. Our body will respond better to more frequency than it will to one big run. Yeah. Now, hey i need to stop myself because I'm into this topic too, but um jump in and feel free to ask Chrissy a question. or I do have one. It's kind of a follow-up from that.
00:23:33
Speaker
What we've seen in our events and just in the trail space, I guess the ultra space more widely in Australia, is the largest growing field of new participants is kind of women over 40 getting into trail and ultra, which is...
00:23:46
Speaker
So awesome to see. But I guess it's, but at the same time, a lot of the language and um the kind of mentality of ultra running is like go out and smash it and crush it and we're going to dominate. and It's all very kind of masculine.
00:24:00
Speaker
And also with events, it is a race, but but there's a lot of people that aren't out there to win. They're just out there to enjoy themselves and push themselves. Most people. Yeah, exactly. One person wins. Yeah.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, a lot of the event is focused towards that mentality of it's just a race against yourself, really. But from a race director's perspective, and then also, you know, a woman who's been in the trail running space for as long as you have, like, have you seen any ways in which we can create events that might just be a like a group run to a larger event that are more inclusive for a range of people of different like I was the same when you first get into trail running you're really like oh but maybe I can't keep up and I don't want to slow the group down but then you get there and you realize that generally if you're in the right space it is a very welcoming and you just go along at your own pace but how we can really bring in this group of not only that age group of women but people
00:24:57
Speaker
Whether their wheels died in their 70s or because we want to create a really diverse that is welcoming to all ages and abilities and fitness levels. Oh, I think it's so important. I get it a lot, actually. Like I'll say, have you ever want to go for a run or whatever? and oh no, I can't run with you. I mean, that's been...
00:25:17
Speaker
forever. That's not, if I'm going invite you to go for a run, I'm actually sharing one of the most sacred spaces that I hold. So I ah please accept it with that, that I'm not just going to leave you like yeah this with you.
00:25:32
Speaker
So there's that. And then I guess to more so to answer your question is I would lean on our point to RPL runner for public lands and trail sisters. I think those two organizations are I mean, there's lots of others, but those ones stand out in my mind as ones that I both collaborated with and witnessed as they've grown and what their focus remains through like years and change and challenge and pandemic and all that. And they, they stay true to.
00:26:00
Speaker
Answering exactly what you're you're talking about. Inclusivity, changing the tone on how it doesn't have to be like you, like it is ah masculine when you talk about like crushing it or beating the mountains or I had a really wonderful mentor when I very first got in. His name was Rock Horton.
00:26:18
Speaker
His name is Rockward and he's still alive. he always talked about how the mountains let him through. Like you don't beat the mountain. like you, they, they just, you got lucky that day and they let you through. You did the right thing.
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah. And all these things had to come together for you to be able to do that. And it wasn't, if it wanted to, it could have crushed you, you know, but it just let you through. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Inclusivity in Ultra Running
00:26:44
Speaker
And so I, I like that. I've always loved that approach and I'm, I'm thankful that that's what was a big part of my upbringing in the sport. And yeah, cause not a lot of people look like me when I got into it, there was not, I always made the joke that like, that was the one place I could go where the bathroom line was in my favor.
00:27:01
Speaker
Like everywhere you go, women's bathroom lines are always so long, but it ultra races in the early two thousand I don't have to wait. Like there's very few women there. So it definitely has changed. And I love seeing that change. Like there's this um group that started this year called women who FKT, FKT is fastest known time. And their goal is to flip the switch or flip the advantages on how many FKTs are set specifically in the Pacific Northwest.
00:27:28
Speaker
They're open to manage like, or not managing, but to encouraging people all over the world But they they know that they can like keep track the greater Pacific Northwest. And they've done it. I read their recent newsletter in the last month. There is a higher percentage of women said setting FKTs than men. And I just thought that was its kind of cool.
00:27:47
Speaker
I jumped on one of their early calls. And I was just in awe. I had never seen that many women trail run. I mean, with Zoom, it's kind of amplified when you've got like... I think there were 70 windows open of people that were women that were there, but women and women that identified as women.
00:28:04
Speaker
i was like, this is phenomenal. Like they asked me to speak at one point and i was like, I am just in awe of all of you. Like, not which this what the screen would ever have looked like if we had screens when I got into it. Like it was just,
00:28:16
Speaker
it was super cool to see the sport shifting like that. And that this organization is putting like having a huge impact like that on these FKTs and results and bringing awareness to trails and what women are people love. And it's really right. Yeah. I've noticed that here. And during COVID, I was looking up FKTs as just something and often didn't even exist for a woman. Like no one people had, people probably done it, but hadn't thought to register it or whatever. Yeah. So I just went out and did a run. was like, yep, got an FKT just by by showing up and doing it. But it was just that. Yeah. And once there is a and number to beat, then other women are like, oh, someone's done this. I'll give it a go and use that as a goal. And it's in no way just an arbitrary thing. But I guess, you know, getting the FKT is just it is what it is. But it's just trying to encourage other women to like push themselves and be equally represented in that kind of space. So I'll check it out. That's really, really cool to hear. i love that. Yeah, that's great. I think that's ah something that was missed on me just in the way I was brought up or whatever. But I realize now how important it is for people to see people that look like themselves doing something for them to then feel invited and wanting to do that.
00:29:24
Speaker
That was missed on me. I was hanging out with all these guys and they just kind of fell into how their world worked and I worked my way around and how it worked for me or how I was able to navigate it. But i I'm getting a better understanding now seeing how that there are previous examples. Like you said, like you just got, somebody's got to set the bar, but how important that is. That that's been a, I think a really cool aha to me.
00:29:51
Speaker
Maybe it was like at a subconscious level. I didn't even realize where other places I might not feel running. I felt very comfortably because it's so. That's who I identify as, but there's other way places in life that I might, oh, I'm i'm not, I don't belong there.
00:30:05
Speaker
And because I don't see anybody that looks like me there. yeah And I didn't realize that that applied to running for people. And these are big be cool, um cool lessons to have brought been brought to my attention, I think. Yeah, totally.
Chrissy's Book on Ultra Running
00:30:17
Speaker
And what made you want to write the book on ultra running? Was that a long time coming and it was, or was it just like a spur of the moment kind of, you know, I've got all this knowledge and experience. I just want to put it all down so I can share it with others. Oh, it's, I'll try. It's a little bit of a longer story, but I was, I have been trying to write more of a memoir type story because gosh, 20, now 20 plus years of these stories of growing up with the boys and Running in these like plutonic circles and just the dynamic that's created. And I just think it's like the plate travels I've been been able to do and the foods I've eaten while racing.
00:30:53
Speaker
I don't know. I think it could be a lot of fun to share. And I but was working on that for quite a while, taking writing classes, working with a writing coach. And then I received an email from this company called Page Street Publishing, and they were known for their how-to books.
00:31:09
Speaker
And this guy, his name was Will, had just come on as an editor, and he had come from a running background. And so he really wanted to put the running spin on these how-to books.
00:31:21
Speaker
And where they came to it from was finding people that wrote blogs And seemed like they were experts in their craft. So there was anything from like origami to lots of different types of cookbooks to potted plants.
00:31:34
Speaker
And so he wanted to do a running type one. And so we had a conversation and they said, could you put together a proposal? Sure. And I had been coaching for five years at that point. And I just totally gravitated to the newbie runners, like the ones that were just coming up in the sport. And I wanted to write like a book with a voice towards them. Cause that's, that's where I felt, felt I could be my most authentic in writing.
00:31:59
Speaker
And then they pushed back and said that they already had somebody writing that book. And they wanted me to put together another proposal. Cause they liked the way I wrote on my blog and how I communicated with people. And I put together series.
00:32:12
Speaker
Kind of a proposal for fast packing because I just done like I done the Colorado Trail at that point, but it was pretty mediocre, like the proposal. And I was like, you know, here you go But for these reasons, and I listed them all out, I think I'm the one to write this book. And I've never done that. I never like.
00:32:30
Speaker
stood up for myself like that. And then i didn't hear back. And then three weeks later, i got a email that said, sometimes those stars align as the subject line.
00:32:40
Speaker
And sure enough, they the other person had decided they wanted out of their contract. And if I wanted to write that book, um It was mine. And I wrote the book in two months. Oh, wow. It just, it was so there, right? Like, yeah I just heard a really cool interview not that long ago. And the author said that they wrote this article in 48 hours. And you know, it's a good article when you know, when it basically writes itself.
00:33:05
Speaker
And that book just like poured out of me Can I get the memoir to do that? Nope.
00:33:12
Speaker
The training manual. And then I got to rewrite it during the pandemic. Gosh. Yeah. January, February, March of 2021. twenty twenty one And it just released March of 22. So that re-release was a lot of fun too, because the the age part has added, has now become a bigger component of the book and what longevity means and that body maintenance. What I've learned here being at the Prime Sports Institute, how that can factor in, like that all got included, which was amazing.
00:33:40
Speaker
plan you to get to do while we were locked down. I bet that having been in the trail and ultra world, there's so many more gadgets and science and nutrition and like, it's very simple at the crux of it, running. And that's why a lot of people love it. You can just chuck shoes on and head out wherever, but you go along to an ultra and you're like, wow, I go home with a shopping list. But then at the same time, you just make do with what you've got as well.
00:34:03
Speaker
It's interesting in what you say, it's still those very simple things like consistency and sleep and nutrition that key things and all the gadgets and kind of distractions from just like doing the work, basically, ah strength training and all that kind of stuff that you you want to avoid and you want to we want to take shortcuts, but you just can't. Speaking of gadgets, that was a really funny update in the book.
00:34:27
Speaker
There was a in the it released in 2015. That's not that long ago. And I in the section about how to pick your running pack, I'd said you might want space for a camera, a phone and a map.
00:34:39
Speaker
And 2021, those are all your phone like Gaia has like taken the world by storm. I'm such a fan of Gaia. And your camera is on your phone. And like, then for communication, you have like that one, those three devices are now one. And I was in six years. That just kind of was a good eye-opener. Yeah. that Stuff changes. And I guess GPS watches are pretty, pretty standard now. And yeah, using your phone for that, it's really, but then I also worry that I'm sure you've been in a, like a few days.
00:35:13
Speaker
hairy situations where like, you know, you might be on a mountain pass or something and all of a sudden the weather dips and or your phone runs out out of battery and people don't know what to do. you know, it kind of can get bit worrisome as well that we do become so reliant on all of these gadgets and kind of lose that old school, like having a map and a compass. And so in a lot of races in Australia, it's mandatory here to take a printed map and a compass. People are like, well, I don't know how to use it anyway. So I use it anyway. What's the point? Yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker
I was just going to say, I'm really thankful that I came up when I did, when phones and electronics and GPS didn't exist because There's like a sense that you learn from being out there and like carrying mandatory safety gear. Like my buddies still made fun of me for carrying the kitchen sink, but I was always prepared when I was out there. Like I'm thankful for what I learned early on. think that there's a bit of a callback to learning that more simple way of doing things as well. People wanting to equip themselves with the first aid and the navigation and those fundamental skills, because we want to go further and add into the wild. that
00:36:20
Speaker
you know that you've got to be self-reliant in those situations and, you know, relying on phones or the forecast doesn't always work out for you.
00:36:31
Speaker
I'm keen to know, Chrissy, what made you want to start your own event, the Chocolate at 50? Like when was the first year and how is being on the other side of an event, has that changed how do you approach other events and like what what kind of experience been around that? Oh, as you guys know, event production is such a lovely...
00:36:49
Speaker
spot and a very challenging one as well. That would be another book I would love to write is interview race directors of what they're like craziest stories are. i mean, I blew up my dad's truck one year.
00:37:00
Speaker
i flooded my parents' basement one year. um we had a plane crash on the course one year. Like it's so nuts what happens for race directors. And like, like, you know, you're doing a good job if the runners don't know. Like then they just got to run their race and get a a time at the finish line and have some fun. It's like that the duck calmly cruising and then underneath the surface, it's chaos. So actually the event was already trucking up 50 K was my first ultra. So Doug McKeever and ro West has started it in 93. I ran it for the first time in 2000, my senior year of college and
00:37:36
Speaker
And then in 2002 was their 10th year and they decided they were done and nobody would take it over. and I was 24 years old and I just had this like, I can't imagine this race going away. It's like my first, I love it. And so I took it over in 2003 with my husband at the time. And then I kept that through the divorce and it's been my event for 20 years now, which is kind of crazy, but.
00:38:04
Speaker
Lovely as well. That's amazing. You've been doing it for 20 years. So it's like you probably have gone into all your events during those 20 years with a newfound appreciation and understanding of
Event Planning: Chuckanut 50 and Climate Challenges
00:38:16
Speaker
all the stuff that does go into planning an event and making sure everyone gets gets over the finish line safely. Oh, definitely. And like getting to travel the world like I have and have all these different race experiences, like, and getting to bring like different, like learn things into that is a lot of, I find a lot of joy in that. And then thinking about those early years when I had my high school friends coming and writing down people's finish line times and my mom making soup for everybody. and now we have food trucks and Hoka arch at the finish and chip timing
00:38:49
Speaker
And like, you just keep like learning and adding. But I would say the most precious thing is that especially we we so felt it this year is that such a gathering space for our community.
00:39:01
Speaker
And I haven't lived here. i moved back to Bellingham in 2015. So for... 12 years, I race directed from Bend, Oregon and Colorado and Seattle, Washington. Like I lived in different spots, but would come back here.
00:39:15
Speaker
So the community didn't know who the race director was. They just knew to show up the third Saturday of March. And so it's only been since I've been here. And meeting people and stuff where they'll like talk about, you know, the 50K or the truck, you know, the Chuckanut or whatever. And I'll be like, I'm the race director of that.
00:39:31
Speaker
Really? So it doesn't like, yes, I'm like pulling the strings or whatever, but it's, it's about the community. Like they own it. They, they take such pride in this event that they, whether they run it or they've run it before, or they come, you know, work at an aid station or help me set up at four o'clock. I mean, i had these guys show up at four 30 in the morning. i was like, I like to get there a little early before everybody shows up just to see the park.
00:39:56
Speaker
That's like probably one of my favorite moments is like the total still before it all happens. And then about like 11, 1130, right. As the first finishers are coming in to look around that same scene and take in the transformation. And then again, it's say six o'clock at night when everybody's gone and it's right back to where it was at four o'clock in the morning. i love that.
00:40:19
Speaker
Like yeah all those. like it never happened. It's kind of scary, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I've been thinking about recently is the effect that a change in climate here in Australia is having on race directors and events. And obviously the pandemic just put a real strain on race directors. It's great to see people getting out there and supporting them. And, you know, people often question race fees and where does it go and that sort of thing. But From an event organisers perspective, we've started considering a climate contingency to put on our events in case we have to change the date or there's flooding or there's bushfire or there's high winds and and all these things that can affect the safety the runners. But then also we want to make sure that we're not having a negative impact on the landscape that we're running through. if it's super muddy, doing damage to the trails, like has that over your 20 years, have you seen that play out and how are you kind of ah going to approach that going forward? Most definitely. I never had a clause.
00:41:16
Speaker
Well, but initially, I didn't even have a website. I used to like print off registration forms and drop them off at the local running stores. But like for the longest time, our clause didn't include anything about maybe having to change the date or cancel and what... like The refund rate would be like that wasn't really up until the pandemic.
00:41:36
Speaker
The race happened. We had the year the plane crashed. We might have had to reroute. um We had a mudslide happen, but fortunately it did not impact where our crews needed to go.
00:41:48
Speaker
We'd had some close calls, but like up to that point of having to cancel when our governor went online, gave a public speech that said, you know, all events over 250 people are canceled five days or eight days before I was supposed to put on the race.
00:42:02
Speaker
I've never dealt with anything like that. so And then seeing it play forward with like smoke conditions, fire conditions. A lot of our races around here, there was a crazy storm that took out a brand new 100 miler where 1,250 lightning bolts hit the greater Whatcom area during this event. like There's lot of stuff that, I mean, it was not there.
00:42:26
Speaker
10, 15 years ago. And so how we manage it, how do we evolve with it? Maybe how can we correct would be like the most ideal, but we're definitely in it. I feel like right now yeah Yeah, definitely. A few years ago, you came out to run Takaina down in Lutruwita, Tasmania. How was that experience for you? Oh my goodness. You guys are so lucky.
00:42:48
Speaker
And then I actually had this amazing aha, like being on the coast there. It was like 40 hours of travel to get to the race. And I had less than 24 hours before I actually started the race from the time I landed. So there was a crazy jet lag and the organization that we were there with took us out to see A lot of the the downed trees, the logging product or logging fabrication work that was being done in the area and the the damage that was happening and the burning and like just kind of decimating the land. So there was just all this happening in this crazy brain space.
00:43:25
Speaker
And then having this exact parallel to where I live, like my backyard, the Olympic Peninsula is, it's not as ancient, but it is ah relatively for, and like in terms of landscape, it is it is a designated old growth forest and there's logging happening out there. And I could go four hours or 40 and like, we can have similar like parallel experiences. And i think with as much as I've traveled and the carbon put footprint that I've had just in my own explorations to have that aha of how close,
00:43:54
Speaker
I am also dealing with similar issues was a good parallel to have brought to light and getting getting to make my way out there. But I will say it took 20 years to get to Australia and New Zealand. And that was way too long. I need to come back.
00:44:08
Speaker
That was a trip of a lifetime. And I hope it's not the last one for sure. We have to wind up, but just a massive thanks to you, Chrissy. It was so great to meet you. It's been fun to chat, and I hope they can be in person.
00:44:20
Speaker
Maybe yeah maybe does we need to not have both of our events in March because, as you both know, how restricted it is. We are thinking of doing the Pelligre in September next year. And then we can get to Chuckanut in March. Yeah, exactly. There we go. can do a trade. September is good for me. I like it. Thanks so much, Chrissy. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks so much. in touch. Thanks so much. Bye.
00:44:46
Speaker
Now we're going to jump forward a little over three years to February, 2025, when we check in with Chrissy to see how life is treating her in the Northwest corner of the United States.
00:44:58
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for joining us again, Chrissy. Last time we spoke to you was September 2022. So quite a few years and months and adventures have passed since then. Where are you today and how are you? Oh, thanks for checking in. Yeah, it's fun to kind of think back like 2022. Where was I then? But where I am now, i am in Bellingham, Washington, which is just south of the Canadian border, about hour and a half, two hours north of Seattle. Nice one. And that is your your home for most of the time. i know you've spent a lot of time in your van with your sidekick PD over the last few years. Yeah. How much have you been at home and how much have you been out exploring the beautiful USA?
00:45:39
Speaker
Well, I guess that's a good checkpoint in terms of timing because I was able to buy this home in March of 22. So it probably was still pretty fresh in mind of having lived in the van for two years with my pup ah when we talked.
00:45:52
Speaker
Yeah, I am very settled. I love being home now. i have my sister and niece visiting. So there's like all sorts of kiddos, snacks and toys as I look around. And it's a different feel this week, but ah definitely home. The van hasn't got as much use.
00:46:08
Speaker
I feel like I kind of, I wouldn't say overdid it, but it definitely was, I was done living in the van. And so now it feels like this summer, i was like, you know what, I got to get it back out, have it be the a adventure rig that it was intended to be.
00:46:21
Speaker
It was never meant to be my home and never meant to be my home for two years. so So now I just need to get back to enjoying it. And this awesome place that I live, I keep taking off and leaving. i was actually in New Zealand just prior. Oh, wow.
00:46:35
Speaker
I got home on January 30th. So got to spend two weeks total vacation, enjoyed the summer down there. Yeah, we've had a lovely summer down here. Well, the existential threat of climate change always on your shoulder.
00:46:48
Speaker
You're like, what a lovely day it is. that Let's get out and enjoy the trails and the beach. And had you been to New Zealand before? i had. I got to, um I was in Tasmania and then got to travel to New Zealand in 2019. That's right.
00:47:00
Speaker
that's right of course. Got to give a talk at the Wanaka Outside Sports and then just run around and see as much as I could. And we did the same this trip too. I'm going to ask now, you said you had a holiday. What does a Chrissy holiday look like? Oh man. and Yeah. Just really putting on the vacation responder because I feel like I can work wherever I'm at.
00:47:20
Speaker
And so a lot of times I... you know, pop open the laptop and check in. And this time I did work with my coaching clients because that is a consistent, I'm not going to leave them hanging. And they all knew where I was at the time. And so there weren't as many phone calls or text messages and stuff to respond to for those couple of weeks.
00:47:39
Speaker
And we checked in on our ummo Monday and then I just got to just be in the space and adventure. We We hiked the Kepler Trek. um We did Roy's Peak. We went out to Mount Aspiring Hut, just every day paddle boarding in the Milford Sound. We just really dug into like outside experience off the laptops, just getting to be with each other, which was great. It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because in a post-COVID world, we can we have a lot more flexibility around work and where we work and how we work. But I'm the same in that it means that it's really hard to clock off because you don't have a ah desk or ah an office. You've got your laptop and it can be wherever you are, which is fantastic because it means that you can... He's like, I'm working from home today, but home is subjective. because I really love what I do. And so it's not always work feeling. I don't like being on a laptop to have to do the work, but I love the work.
00:48:34
Speaker
It's just that ah technology is what ties you that piece of it. But what I get to do, actually love. So i like i kind of miss them when I don't. Check in is regular. Totally. It is important to have those breaks where you don't have to check in or check emails and you can just be, like you said, present and enjoying where you are with the people you're with. For me, I had the similar break over Christmas and and then, yeah, you're itching to get back into it because you've kind of been starved of something that you love and then, it yeah, it gives you that energy to look forward to a new year and get back into the work that you love to do. Yes, that was a recent adventure. is I had a bit of a listen over our conversation from September 2022.
00:49:14
Speaker
And during that, you were reflecting on the things that have given you longevity as a runner. Those five things, consistency, nutrition, recovery, strength training, and finally, and probably most importantly, joy. What moments or places or people have brought you joy recently?
00:49:29
Speaker
Oh, that's such a fun question. My dog always does. i mean, just the daily belly rubs, like waking up to her cuddled next to me is just, I just love that little dog so much. that i missed her. Like I had to be away from her to go to get to New Zealand. My family, my partner and his two young kids, I love our time
Community Support in Challenging Times
00:49:46
Speaker
together. There's often tough times and there's more often just like silly laughs that come up from spending so much time together. My dear friends, like we, we just like check in on each other and make sure everybody's doing okay. It's a little rough over here coming home to our new presidency and system that is
00:50:04
Speaker
kind of unfolding as a result of, and that can be hard and that can be heavy. And so I do find joy in checking in on each other, even when it's hard. I think there's something really special about having people that you can connect with in the worst and maybe joy isn't the way people would describe it, but...
00:50:24
Speaker
I feel closer to people when we're sharing the hard moments just as much as the wins or race wins or whatever. stuff Yeah, definitely. And I feel that we've got a bit of an innate sense to kind of go to ground when things are a bit challenging. And, you know, if someone passes away and you kind of, you've been awkward and you don't really know how to talk about it, but I think that we're learning just,
00:50:45
Speaker
talking about it is more is the most important thing. And it doesn't matter if you might come across bumbling or awkward because just having that conversation is so important. And we are all watching.
00:50:55
Speaker
I feel like our news is just dominated by what's happening over there at the moment. So we feel very... in tune with it, but we ourselves are going into a federal election this year. So I think there is a sense of just let's look and watch and learn and try not to follow in the US's footsteps. But at the same time, what's happening over there feels very close to home, but I can't even imagine what it would be like to actually see it affecting the people around you and your communities and especially the things that it means for our wild places and climate action and inclusivity and all of those things that we've come so far with over the past few years. And that leads me to the Chuckanut 50, which is coming up in March.
00:51:36
Speaker
You're still behind the reins as race director, Chrissy. Yeah, I love it. Yes. 23 years doing it. I had a rough year a couple of years ago and I'm glad I pushed through and to be on this side of it. And to tie into what we were just talking about, I think that's almost the surreal part is being consumed with the preparations and planning. It's five weeks out from today that we'll start like packet pickup and everything.
00:51:59
Speaker
And that's, we talk about joyful. it's It's a lot of work, but there's a lot of like really cool. And it's very in a bubble. Like a lot of it is not impacted by what is going on in the greater United States right now. And so We can feel surreal to be like, oh my gosh, I've got all these things to do. And it's like, and like, what is the importance of it? Like there's people that are being shipped out of here. There's people that having their doors knocked on that are not wanting that, that knock.
00:52:26
Speaker
And I, we were, I was talking with another dear friend of mine who's also a race director and, The importance of having these community gatherings and bringing people together and finding joy is really important.
00:52:38
Speaker
It can feel surreal in the planning of it because it is so just detail task oriented. But then the end result of giving that day to people is is really important amongst this time and celebrating what we how we view community Not what we're being told what's allowed and who's acceptable. Like we get to say who should, like, we're all open to this runner community. Like you want to run, we'll create this platform. So trying to hold on to that amongst people.
00:53:09
Speaker
um all Because like you said, those moments are really important where you can just escape the news cycle and the never-ending doom scrolling and that sense of, oh, it's all too much. But then you go along to an event that just is full of soul and heart and is there for the right reasons. And you're like, oh, no, that's right. There are good people in the world who are pushing for this. You know, people might challenge and want to take away these things in public life, but in our community, we can still foster that caring nature and inclusivity and... know that you can hold on to that really tight within with those communities and and gives them hope and happiness and hopefully yeah allows them to just forget about everything else for a little while and enjoy being surrounded by such lovely people yeah and and use that as energy to keep going like living in the world that we are living in yep Yeah, exactly.
00:54:01
Speaker
And in our last chat, you mentioned that the awesome group Runners for Public Lands were releasing a race director user's guide to encourage all events to be more diverse and environmentally sustainable. With this in mind, and I see that Chuck and Nutt's also taken the Trail Sisters commitment and also the Conservation Alliance mission.
00:54:18
Speaker
You've been doing Chucking Up for, what did you say, 23 years? This your year. How has the race and I guess other races you've been to changed over whether it be 20 or the past five years in terms of becoming more aware of what is the makeup of the people on the start line look like and the impact that it's having on the places where these events are held? Gotcha. I i think i understand what you're going towards, having all these orgs involved.
00:54:41
Speaker
And the first thing that just pops to mind is like this level of acceptance that this is what we're supposed to do. So for the last four years, I've been, it's been strongly encouraged to make a donation to a trail org. whether that's in the form of four hours of trail work or a financial donation.
00:54:59
Speaker
And this year we finally, yeah, our team, I decided whatever that it was going to be mandatory and he made the donation, like what is your four hours worth kind of thing. So if you're drafting out of doing the trail work and you're going to make a financial donation,
00:55:16
Speaker
Like, what is your four hours? Like, if you don't have to go do the show or what would and trying to make that the people think about, hey, this is really important. Put a value on your time. These orgs are why we have the trails that we do and the places we get to go run.
00:55:32
Speaker
And whether it's directly impacting Chuckanut 50K or the next generation, we've got Girls on the Run on there as well, ah Runners for Public Lands and ah Conservation Alliance. like They can choose, or in Washington Trails Association, excuse me, they can choose where they have their money go. Or if it's, ah I have lots of receipts coming in from across the border for local trail orgs in Canada. So runners that are coming of Canada,
00:55:56
Speaker
like directly impact your own local trails. And I guess I was like thinking, Oh, I'm going to get pushed back. Like yeah it's always already expensive and blah, blah. And we try and keep our race fee down so that like it's accessible to people.
00:56:11
Speaker
And I think this is really important to know that if you're going to use the trails, there needs to be the both and that we need to give back to either to the trails directly by getting out there and doing trail work, supporting a race,
00:56:25
Speaker
um events that are working on them or more, important I would think, ideally, like whether it's trail building, trail restoration restoration, invasive species removal. Like how can tree planting, how can you have your hand on the earth that gives back in the, as much joy as you get to take from running on it, like weave that back into. So I was really encouraged by how like just happened. I didn't have yeah one. We've seen at least four. So at registration, they're able to make the donation or they can defer till later and then send me a receipt. At registration, we saw over $10,000 donated.
00:57:00
Speaker
So that doesn't account for hours or the additional receipts that have come in since. So I'm really stoked with that response. And I feel like that's like a really cool, like hats off to the running community for just taking on and understanding like this is a good thing to do. There wasn't any pushback. Is it four years of warning people here? We're going to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Or is it like, hey, we've we all understand the importance of doing whatever it is. I'm really stoked. I think that's a cool thing.
00:57:28
Speaker
maybe shift ah in terms of, or maybe it's something that's just carried through and now it's on an amplified level of people knowing that if you're going to be on the land, you need to give give to the land. It's really interesting because that's essentially, yeah, what we're trying to encourage over here, just in people's everyday in terms of, you know, If you go out for a run, here's ways that you can help the environment that you're enjoying and and it brings you so much joy. And it is very um reassuring to hear that you haven't had much pushback, any pushback really, because but then I guess you've done it in a smart way in that you've made it optional for a few years so people are aware of the idea and it's not kind of coming out of nowhere. But it's funny how those small changes of putting something optional at checkout can evolve into something that you've just...
00:58:15
Speaker
got 10 grand for these amazing organizations with little to no effort. That's a ah large amount of money plus all the voluntary hours on top of that, that will have a real world effect.
00:58:27
Speaker
Do you see these kinds of initiatives at other events in the States? Because I know there's some where track work is mandatory, so it's not necessarily the only event. But over here in Australia, we look at what you do in the States and that kind of trail culture and we're like, We're always a fair way behind. So how do we catch up in the sense that not just have those years of lag, but catch up to where you are now so we can learn from what what you've achieved over there and hopefully create that same culture here a lot faster because sometimes similar to you, like things like invasive species and climate change and bushfires, floods, all of this is just making it really a lot harder for the government agencies that are responsible for maintaining and caring for these trails.
00:59:10
Speaker
Their budgets aren't getting bigger, but how do we kind of supplement that as the people who use the trails and love the trails? Right. Yeah. And I would say I didn't come up with it and and it didn't happen overnight. Like a hundred milers, I would give them the credit typically of like having eight hours of trail work, mandatory donation option, not even possible. Like you got to get out there and put it in your eight hours kind of thing. I know Luke Nelson of the Pocatello runs. He has implemented a donation system like this as well. He has ah
00:59:42
Speaker
range of distances. So I feel like encouraging it, this like kind of small local race that's got an international presence at just the 50 K distance was a little bit of a push on the system. And I was stoked with the response. So I, and that doesn't have to take the years or decades that it took over here to get to that. Like you said, like we can learn, it's already happened. Let's learn from it and like implement And I think the way you've done it in relation to your wage. So, you know, if you work in retail and you get paid 15 bucks an hour versus if you're a consultant or a lawyer or ah surgeon, like that's a whole lot different. And it's kind of saying we don't expect everyone to be on the same scale, but just think about what you would earn per hour. And that's half a day's work.
01:00:28
Speaker
yeah I just think how much time we all spend outside on trails, like that very tiny amount in consideration for how much we use these spaces and just how accessible they all are as well.
01:00:40
Speaker
And how have registrations gone for Chuconut this year? Oh, it was so rad. So this year opened 900 spots and year we had 598 starters. Our permit was 600 and had 600 person permit years five hundred and ninety eight starters our permit was six hundred and we've had a six hundred person permit for years But we've only started like 440 or 460. Like we hadn't really gotten over the 500 person mark.
01:01:05
Speaker
And so I implemented some different strategies last year to get more people off the wait list. And we were like pushed right up against our permit level, which was exciting. Like I just had never had that happen before.
01:01:17
Speaker
And so this year we increased our permit size to 750. And trying a different approach of registering more people from the start so that more people have the mentality of they're going to run it.
01:01:32
Speaker
And we'll see how it all pans out. We always have a pretty big attrition being an early race. But I was like, holy cow, if we don't have the attrition and we start...
01:01:44
Speaker
800 people. Yeah, I might have to ask for forgiveness from the permit agencies ah based on my 23-year history. But I don't know. I believe it's all going to work out. And I want to find ah a number that feels like grand. it's It's really fun to have a ton of runners but can still stay local. So how where is that? Like 600, we still did it.
01:02:07
Speaker
We'll try 750. Like can we still stay like... in our like welcoming open arms here we're all here we all see each other vibe with 750 people plus like you got to think that at least one to two people come to watch yeah plus yeah double that in spectators and family and yeah it is a tricky one with people pulling out so we found yeah oversubscribe knowing that people will then you think we're we're capped at this, we'll cap of entries at that. And then you get there in the day and you're like, oh, those people missed out because people didn't turn up. And I'd be very interested to hear how 750 feels because trail events are exploding and there seems to be one every weekend. So there's no shortage of choice, but at the same time to be viable, the more people, the better in the sense of more entry fees, but then you don't want to lose those qualities that make it such a
01:03:00
Speaker
enjoyable event at the same time. So be watching to see how it comes together. But I'm sure you've been doing it for so long that you know the must-haves and the things that make this event unique. And I guess it's just trying to gale that up so that way more people can experience it. Totally. And i I mean, unless there's some magic, I just feel like the magic is over time. There's no thing you can replace what time does for something. So give big credit to that patience, which I don't have. I was not gifted. pizza i
01:03:30
Speaker
Running was the the sport gifted to me because I wasn't given patience because running is what teaches me patience on a daily basis. But yeah, seeing it over time, like I don't, I don't know how you would do it without having the building years.
01:03:44
Speaker
Like, yeah, you could shorten it for sure. It doesn't need to be over as long, but I think that's an an important intention. Like, of taking the time to make it right. Feels right. You don't know it until you go through it. So feel what feels right as you're going and then layer on from there. Yeah, that's a good way of approaching it. And yeah, you've got five weeks until race day. What's what's on the calendar after Chuckanut's over and you take all of that logistics and planning weight off your shoulders and I guess springs around the corner and then summer, what plans have you got in the van? Oh, hopefully. Well, first off, we've created a tradition now. This will be our fourth year going back. Two dear friends and I head out and do a section of the Arizona Trail.
01:04:24
Speaker
So like this fast packing mission, early spring, get away to the desert. Like now I just have come to look forward to it. This will be our, like i said, fourth year doing that. And then another dear friend is running the high lonesome 100. I got to run that hundred last summer. So now I get to go pace her there. This, she paced me. I'll pace her this summer. We do some family trips, Missoula children's theater um and, um,
01:04:48
Speaker
um I'm hoping to actually, we my partner and I have been talking a lot about, like, we live in an amazing place. Like, we loved New Zealand because it felt a lot a lot like what summer here feels like.
01:05:01
Speaker
So why do we leave here in the summer? so between the van and his trailer, maybe we'll do, I'm a hopeful that we'll just kind of explore the Mount Baker highway, get out in the North Cascades the Olympics. Like we have amazing access right here.
01:05:18
Speaker
i see that. And then I'm like, Oh, I'll spend a month in Colorado and then I'll go to It's hard to sometimes appreciate what's in your own backyard when you've got access to it for most of the year. I do hope I'm putting the vibes in the call. to you I'd love to go back and announce at UTMB. I had such a blast being a part of the community that way. UTMB, for all that it is, i just being there um with the athletes of this generation and watching everybody like push themselves and get to just...
01:05:48
Speaker
really take it in from that, like right in front of you. Not that again, not that I like sitting on a screen all day, but that was like pretty cool hours but doing it. That's just, I guess the second closest you can be to actually running it or competing in it is being the person behind the screen, talking everyone through felt exhausted afterwards. Like I didn't run a script those four days. That was going to be my question.
01:06:11
Speaker
Yeah. How was that experience? Yeah, I tried to go for a run after announcing OCC. So the first day, and I got like a mile out of town and I hadn't even started walking yet. I was toast or sorry. I hadn't even started running yet. I was just walking.
01:06:28
Speaker
So I just walked backwards on the course and cheered on runners. And then, I mean, the next days were even longer. So I didn't run like I really didn't really run a step in Chamonix this year. I was cooked by the time it was all done. Yeah. Yeah, it would be such an adrenaline and endorphin high and that it would just totally physically you've been sitting, but internally you've you've been out there, you've been on course, you've been with people the whole way through. Totally. Yeah, this whole screen world is, yeah, messes with not just my mind, I'm sure, but... Well, being over here in Australia and people around the world who can't get there, it's amazing to see the rise in, I guess, the broadcast of these events and just how inclusive and interactive it can be, even if you are on the other side of the world. And fit for yourself, what's your training plan when you got the call to head along to UTMB? Do you have to sit there with all the photos of the runners and then that, you know, do you got to like refresh your memory and learn the course inside out or do you just kind of go along and just get quick? caught up in the atmosphere and just talk about running with with a bunch of friends yeah and last year it was the latter part of that i was brought in ba basically last minute i think it was like four weeks out that i signed a contract to go over and do that so it was cramming as much as i could but it was more as my partner called it color commentator like just i'm have 20 years of 20 plus years of running experience how like being a part of the vibe kind of on the spot i'm hoping to have more time this year to really get to know a lot of credit to keith burn and martin gafuri for their like knowledge of all of the athletes and background and like watching them at other races because they announce at other events and i just love listening to their so like sports knowledge of ultra running it's
01:08:16
Speaker
kind of fun to think of ultra running as like baseball talk. Like how did we get to a point where we know this much about each of the athletes in it? I know it's remarkable. And it's for me trying to explain trail running and ultra running and UTMB to people who aren't in the world is is kind of tricky. But then if you just show them the live stream, it kind of gives the sport more credibility in a way that Yeah, I guess it's ultra running in the way that you'd say football or tennis or any of these legitimate sports that people are familiar with. And they might not play it, but they kind of get it. So I feel like it gives the sport a sense of, yeah, legitimacy within the normal people. And they still look at this and think, people are what? They're running 180 kilometers around Mont Blanc?
01:08:58
Speaker
Why? And you're like, who cares? It's great viewing. and think, yeah, I think well past the like, how do you go to the bathroom or what do you eat out there? Those questions are kind of a decade ago now. And there's a more of a like understanding of it in the sport now, it seems like.
01:09:16
Speaker
Because UTMB is in July, August, roughly? August, end of August. Yeah. fingers crossed for you that you get the call up soon so you can start doing your your research. But I'm sure that, yeah, it looks like an amazing experience. And just to spend the week in Chamonix itself without the stress of running, even though you've got the stress of working still, would just be a fantastic way to get into the mountains. And hopefully this time you'll have some energy to go for a run yourself. Yeah. Hopefully. Thanks. Yeah.
01:09:45
Speaker
Or just plan a little bit more time on the front end before. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And soak up the post event atmosphere as well. Well, thank you so much for checking in with us, k Chrissy. It's lovely to see you and hear, yeah, you've got another big year planned and any more books on the horizon? Are you going back for revision three of ultra running? Possibly. Yeah, we'll see. There's nothing, no contracts, nothing written down. um Always ideas. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. Well, thank you again for joining us. All the boat best for Chuck and Nut. And hope you have a great summer. Get out there in the van. And even if it's just down the road, I'm sure you'll find plenty of new places to explore and enjoy. Thank you. Yeah, we'll get out there. You too. Thanks so much, k Chrissy.
01:10:30
Speaker
And that's the finish line of our six trail chat. Thank you for joining us for a conversation with the engaging and infectious Chrissy Male. If you'd like to hear more from Chrissy, you can follow her on socials at Chrissy Male or visit her website, chrissymale.com, where you can also pick up a copy of her book.
01:10:46
Speaker
Hopefully, Chrissy will be coming to a screen near you this August at UTMB. Or if you're stateside, check out the Chuckanut 50 happening next weekend in Bellingham, Washington. If you'd like to learn more about what we do here at For Wild Places, you can stay in touch by subscribing to this podcast or to our weekly newsletter.
01:11:03
Speaker
If you consider yourself a steward of Wild Places, then maybe you'd like to become a member. For a month of your annual fee, you can support the ongoing work of For Wild Places and help make this year our best yet. For more information and to subscribe or become a member, head to 4wildplaces.com or find us on socials at 4wildplaces. Thank you again for joining us. As always, we are stoked to have you here.
01:11:25
Speaker
a huge thank you to Ficruisy for joining us and sharing her years of experience and trail wisdom. And finally, thank you to Lara Hamilton for our theme music. Until next time, happy trails, folks.
01:11:36
Speaker
And as always, thank you for taking the time for Wild Places.
01:11:43
Speaker
Bye.