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5. The joys (and perils) of multi-disciplinary adventures at home and away, with Milly Young
56 Plays1 month ago
From the plains of WA comes Milly Young, an adventure-seeking, mountain-climbing, ultra-running woman of unstoppable resilience and infectious love of wild places.
We first caught up with Milly to recap her FKT on southwest Tasmania's Port Davey / South Coast Track, where not even a broken toe could stop her from swimming across rivers, smashing gels and ultimately, making it to the finish line. We checked back with Milly from her new hometown of Chamonix, France, where skiing, climbing and running in the mountains keeps her fit, happy and occasionally, injured.
You can find out more about Milly on Instagram, read more about her 2024 PTL journey via Tracks & Trails, or listen to her podcast, Breaking Trail.
To hear more from For Wild Places, subscribe to our newsletter or become a member.
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Transcript
00:00:10
Speaker
Bye.
Introduction to For Wild Places Podcast
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to the For Wild Places podcast, a podcast that shares the stories of inspiring people and their adventures in running, adventure and advocacy. I'm your host, Hilary. Today, we are excited to bring you our child chat with Millie Young.
Monthly Chats with Millie Young
00:00:34
Speaker
Every month, we catch up with athletes, leaders, activists and inspiring people to talk about past or future adventures, their favorite wild places and the connection between adventure and activism. In this trial chat from June 2023, chat with Millie about her recent move from Nippaluna Hobart to Chamonix, France, and her most recent adventures along the Port Davie and South Coast tracks in southwest
Acknowledgment of First Nations Custodianship
00:00:57
Speaker
Tasmania.
00:00:57
Speaker
But before we jump into the chat, I would like to acknowledge the First Nations people who have been custodians of land, waters, and culture for tens of thousands of years. We understand the wild places we love to explore on this continent have been cared for by First Nations people for millennia.
00:01:12
Speaker
We seek to learn from the world's oldest living culture so we too can care for country, as the Indigenous people of this continent have some time immemorial. This podcast was recorded and edited on Wadawurrung country in so-called Australia, where sovereignty was never ceded.
00:01:28
Speaker
This always was, and always will be, Aboriginal land. Millie Young is an ultra-runner, climber and all-round adventurer. Back in April 2021, she sat out to run the renowned Port Davie and South Coast Tracks, a journey that traverses over 180 kilometres of south-western Lutruwita Tasmanian wilderness.
00:01:47
Speaker
Whilst she holds the fastest known time, her adventure is better known as the muddiest known time, thanks to a short film about her journey. Join us as For Wild Places Will chats with Millie about her adventures in Tasmania's southwest and other adventures since.
00:02:02
Speaker
Let's get into the chat.
Millie Young's Ultra-Running Adventures
00:02:07
Speaker
Welcome everybody to For Wild Places second trail chat. ah My name is Will. I'm based in Port Kembla on the New South Wales south coast. It's on Darawa land. And the first thing I want to do is acknowledge the traditional owners of of our land and pay our respects to elders past, present and future. And for Wild Places, as a group of activist runners, we aim to protect and celebrate the wild places that we run in. And we are stoked to have as a special guest today, Millie Young.
00:02:38
Speaker
Millie is an ultra runner, a climber, and according to Hilary Spiel on Facebook, an all-round adventure woman. Back in April 2021, Millie set out to run the renowned Port Davie and South Coast track in the wild southeast of Lutra Weta, which is Tasmania,
00:02:55
Speaker
a journey of over 180 k's. And she's created a short documentary. Well, sorry, I should say she holds the fastest known time, the FKT, for that trail.
Life and Adventures in Chamonix, France
00:03:05
Speaker
But the actual event is probably better known as the NKT, the muddiest known time, which which is a short doco that Millie has created. So um just want to welcome and say a massive hello to Millie. Thank you for coming. Thanks, Will. Thank you very much for having me. It's great to be here.
00:03:22
Speaker
A real pleasure. Now, we're going to come back to that epic run a bit later, but I'm a bit scared to pronounce the place you live in because of my Bogan Australian accent. But I hear you're very far away at the moment. Can you tell us where you are and what you've been up to? Yeah, I'm i'm in Chamonix in France, currently in my very dark apartment, even though it's 11 a.m. m And I've been here for a couple of weeks now. I moved over at the start of June and I have been just enjoying the mountains. It's been a while because of COVID since, yeah, been in high mountains. So we've been enjoying the trails, which are absolutely stunning here and doing lots of running,
00:04:02
Speaker
and lots of climbing, both rock climbing and getting into the Alpine. So it's been really fun so far and couple more months of the summer here to go. So, yeah, a few adventures ahead planned. So, and feel free if this is not public information yet, but are you just like you on holidays just living it up over there or you are you working on a project over there as we speak? ah Not working on a project, no, um just a personal project to skill up in alpine climbing really is the main objective for me to be over here Chamonix for the summer. I am still working, so it's not entirely holiday, remote working, obviously, since COVID. it's pretty
00:04:44
Speaker
It's pretty nice now. We can kind of work from wherever as long as we have a laptop and some internet connection. So, yeah, not 100% holiday, but it is a bit of a working holiday for sure.
00:04:55
Speaker
ah now Just on that, let's let's go back a bit because we we wanted to quiz you on that. what um like You're obviously an epic runner who's done amazing things, but what what do you do in your in your day-to-day? Work-wise.
Millie's Work in Energy and Climate
00:05:07
Speaker
So I ah do a couple of things. i I coach running and climbing, and I also work for an organization called Energy Lab. So Energy Lab is a startup, well, we're a not-for-profit startup accelerator. Some people might be familiar with that term.
00:05:25
Speaker
But basically we work with companies in Australia and and globally from kind of everywhere through all phases from first coming up with an idea all the way through to what's called like a scale up. So companies raising kind of tens of millions of dollars, but all with a focus on combating climate change or doing stuff in the area of clean energy. What's your role in that in a company?
00:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, so i previously have been heavily involved in a lot of the early stage startups. stuff So helping entrepreneurs with ideation, building pitch decks, talking to investors, building out their product, doing customer research, that kind of thing.
00:06:05
Speaker
And more recently, my focus is kind of honed in on a particular program that which is all about getting more women into the space of energy and climate entrepreneurship because, well, a few years ago now when I first started working in the Energy Lab, majority of the founders in the energy or the clean energy and climate space were male.
00:06:26
Speaker
um So we started a ah fellowship. a three-month program to help women come up with ideas or if they've already come up with ideas, do all the things that I mentioned before, like build our pitch deck, customer research, talk to investors and really kind of gain traction with their startup ideas in the energy and climate space.
00:06:46
Speaker
with the intention of them helping them go on to start clean energy and climate startup so yeah that's kind of been my focus for certainly the last year this may sound a bit boring but um but but it it really interests me how do you manage yeah totally how do you manage balance um mean you obviously mentioned you're working away from home at the moment but how how do you balance uh life and work and and play and running ah Yeah, great question. So I suppose if you talk to some of my colleagues, I first started working full time at Energy Lab however many years ago, three and a half years or so.
00:07:20
Speaker
And then I dropped to four days and then, well, nine day fortnight. Then I started working four days. Then I started working six months of the year. so I'm very lucky in that my i work with Energy Lab, um they're a great organization. We're a really small team.
00:07:37
Speaker
I think at the moment there's six of us and they've always just been really supportive of my life outside of of work. And, um yeah, while I'm over here in Chamonix, I'm not doing that much work, which is which is great. It means I can go and kind of follow those those passions and other pursuits, but still that have my toe in the water and still still be working and have a job to come home to and those
Millie's Running Journey
00:08:05
Speaker
things. So for me, it's just very much... down to having a great employer.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah. That's awesome. Can't remember if it was in the short film or in, um remember when Freddie interviewed you? Yeah. Yeah. Can't remember if where you said it, but I think you mentioned you only got into running like recently kind of during COVID time, which I think is ah the case for a lot of people, but did you always love running when you were a youngster or is it something that you've just been one to later on?
00:08:33
Speaker
Definitely, I think, something that came later. Yeah, so I did really just start – well, I mean, I've always run a little bit, you know, played hockey um competitively when I was younger and did lots of sports at school and that kind of thing. So it's not like i I'd never run a step in my life before I started running during COVID.
00:08:55
Speaker
But in the in sort of like the last however many years, 10 years since – since leaving school for 15 years probably, climbing was more of focus. And then, yeah, during COVID, you know, isolating in rural WA and didn't have climbing partners and didn't have anywhere to climb. So I started running, fell in love with it.
00:09:15
Speaker
But certainly when I was younger, yeah, I can always remember, like, I never really enjoyed primary school cross country or anything like that. It was always like when that time of the year came around, yeah, I didn't look forward to it.
00:09:31
Speaker
I didn't like the feeling of like, you know, being short of breath or like that, like metallic feeling in your mouth and trying to like breathe in when you're pushing yourself too hard. Now I and know I really enjoy that. But yeah, I can't say that I've always been like a runner.
00:09:49
Speaker
um It's certainly something that I've just been drawn to in the last couple of years. And I think the reason that I like it is for that adventurous aspect and being able to cover a lot of ground under your own steam, very uninhibited, unfettered mode of transport, right? You just need a pair of shoes. You don't need a partner. mean, it's great to run with other people, but it's just a ah great way of exploring new places. And, like, being in Chamonix, it's been fantastic. Just so I don't have a car here, so but being able to run but like,
00:10:22
Speaker
You know, longer distances is a great way to explore the areas around you, the trails, the towns, et cetera. So, yeah, love running now, but it has definitely been a recent thing. It's weird. that's It's similar to me. i've only, I'm a very recent convert and it's, you know, I would never say a global pandemic has. a good thing but in a weird way there's been like i was the same i couldn't do other things so i just started running and and and fell in love with it so looking back it kind of was ah a good thing it's ah it's a contradiction yeah exactly and i think that's the same for a lot of people right it's been very transformative in that way like i've definitely noticed an uptake in the number of people getting out and enjoying wild places whether it be running hiking climbing just generally appreciating nature because I think when everyone was locked down for so long and stuck in their like local areas, they started to, you know, notice things, the changing of the season, the different animals, the flowers on the trees blossoming and things. And, yeah, just really brought people's attention to
00:11:31
Speaker
how important it is to be outside and be in nature.
Reflections on Tasmania Run
00:11:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Beautiful. Now, with that in mind, I want to turn to something quite grim because I read an article about you in the North Face and um and this is a quote.
00:11:46
Speaker
It's mid-morning on a Saturday in April and I'm lying crumpled on a rocky beach, clutching my left foot in pain. I'm deep in the Tasmanian wilderness, 40 odd kilometers from the nearest road.
00:11:56
Speaker
I've got 120 kilometers in the legs. um haven't slept in over 24 hours and I'm fairly sure i've broken something in my foot. Now, that's this is we're obviously talking about that epic Tassie run, but can you just explain to us how like what's going through your mind that enables you to get up and keep going when you're in that moment?
00:12:16
Speaker
Look, it's hard to... I actually don't really know. Like, looking back, when that happened... I was in a ah lot of pain. There was no way for me to know that I'd broken. land I'd broken my big toe, but I didn't know that because obviously I didn't have an x-ray have on the track. Yeah, I guess when I started, i knew...
00:12:37
Speaker
The only way out was going to be on my own two feet or option two was call a rescue. And I suppose it didn't seem to me to be like a big enough. I was in a lot of pain.
00:12:53
Speaker
But it just kind of felt a bit um like not enough of a big deal to be rescued for like possibly a broken toe, but didn't really know, you know, imagine if it wasn't. And then I'd call to rescue.
00:13:09
Speaker
because like I had a sore foot so yeah I suppose there was just a bit of like I felt like it would be quite embarrassing if I got rescued and there was nothing wrong with me so I guess the um the reason to push on was and also I I wanted to finish right and I thought I thought that yeah it was painful but However many, I think like I had about 40 Ks or something to go.
00:13:35
Speaker
and yeah, I thought that I could get there. It would be slow, but I'd started it and I wanted to finish. And, you know, it was, I think it was in the morning, so I had the rest of the day. It turned out to, yeah, actually took a really long, from that point onwards, was really long and difficult. But, yeah, I don't know. it just just seemed to be lack of not that big of a deal in a way.
00:14:01
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Would I do it again I was in that position? I'm not sure. But, yeah, I just really didn't put too much thought to it, to be honest. I just said, oh, well, off we go. We're keeping on going to the problem. Great. Not much was going through my head, to be honest. I guess at a certain point, given what you've described, at a certain point you don't really have much of a choice, I guess, but you still do have to get up and keep going. Yeah, and not make that call. It's amazing. Yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
And it was a beautiful day. was very hot. And I don't know, it's just, I wasn't ready for it to be over, I guess. I was having like such a such a great time out there and thought, well, if I can put one foot in front of the other, eventually I'll get to Cocker Creek. You mentioned yeah whether or not you would do it again. If if you were to do it again,
00:14:54
Speaker
would you approach it differently or do anything differently? and Yes, I would. I took way too many gels, so I definitely wouldn't take that many gels. I saw in the film there's so many gels laid out.
00:15:09
Speaker
I know, I know. it was It was a lot. I can't remember why I thought, oh, yeah, I need that many gels. I mean, I did go through a lot of the gels, but um on that second day after I broke my I was going so slowly.
00:15:23
Speaker
But I didn't really need that much energy. So I definitely had a lot of gels left over at the end. I've actually been talking to a guy named Ben who's planning to do the run this coming summer. And so it's on on the sort of top of my mind because I was messaging yesterday about some tips. take dr I would have taken take more dry bags to swim across because we had a couple of instances where unexpected swims across passages that we should have been able to row a boat across. But with issues with the boats, we had to swim.
00:15:53
Speaker
So, and that's when I say we, that was my support runner, Tom, who met me for the second half. So definitely would take some dry bags that were big enough to put your running back in. Cause we did take dry bags, but they were too small.
00:16:06
Speaker
And then, yeah, look, to be honest, I'm not really sure. I potentially would have done it at a different time of the year, but I wouldn't have been fit enough ah to do it any earlier. because i and i left So I left it quite late in the summer and it had been quite wet, so it was pretty muddy. So I think probably more like a Seb date would have been better, but but it's so hard to tell in the southwest rains so much. So it's all like a lot of guessing really. I'd probably just, you know, train more, I guess. That would be the other thing that I would have done. I had a lot of injuries leading up to it and actually to about a couple of weeks before I wasn't really sure if I was going to be able to actually get it done.
00:16:47
Speaker
But magically, my injuries disappeared within a couple of weeks to go. so we were all good, but I didn't get probably as much training as I could have done. before But, hey, that's always the way, right? There's always little tweaks and you're always, oh, could have done more. but There wasn't too much I would change.
Environmental Impact and Preservation in Tasmania
00:17:06
Speaker
Like potentially not breaking my toe would have been good, but and well it just added to the adventure. Awesome. just had a couple more questions and then we'll open it see if other folks want to ask one. But um obviously for Wild Places, it's about protecting um wild places.
00:17:20
Speaker
Down in Tassie, logging is obviously a massive issue, but on that particular track, were there any particular environmental issues that are worth getting out there and publicising or campaigns um to to to protect the environment down there? ah That part of Tassie is actually pretty, still very pristine.
00:17:39
Speaker
I mean, aside from the south coast and the Fort Davy track, which are obviously really some of the only signs of of humans down in the area of the southwest. Tassie Parks does a really good job of of keeping that area wild.
00:17:53
Speaker
There is talk of, and I'm not up to date on what's going on, so what I say with a grain of salt, And probably, yeah, definitely do some research into what I'm about to say. But I know that there is talk about turning the South Coast track into like adding huts and making it more of a rebuilding the track and making it more of like a overland and, you know, privatising public land which is in itself is a contentious issue um so that's definitely something that you know i don't know i'm 100 for however putting more money into actually rebuilding the track wouldn't be such a bad thing because there is areas on that south coast track and and the port davis well although the port davis a lot less traffic where you can see the degradation caused by hikers you know not staying on the path and everyone's kind of weaving around and then you've got these massive big bog holes.
Upcoming European Races and Tasmania Plans
00:18:48
Speaker
You know, as you say, I've done bit gliding in Tassie and always trying to get clients to to stay on the track. But when the track is a ah muddy mess and you're going to fall up to your hip in mud, it's really hard to like yeah do that yourself. So certainly as much as you can down there, try and and stay on track.
00:19:05
Speaker
But I understand that it can be difficult when that means you're going to be, yeah, up to your knees hips waist and much um but for the most part that part of tassie is there's a really special place because it really hasn't seen a whole lot of human development and it is truly very wild still which is just beautiful yeah it looks magnificent what have you got going on the rest of the year have you got other exciting projects or events coming up Yeah, while I'm over here, I am, as I said, mainly mainly climbing is that my main ah objective.
00:19:39
Speaker
um I do a little guy race in Italy on the weekend just in, which is really fun. And, yeah, it was awesome. was like a beautiful little town in the footbills of the Alps. And we got in our race bags with our bibs, we got bags of polenta and beers. And, yeah, it was super super fun.
00:19:58
Speaker
um And I'm going to be doing the Matterhorn 50k Sky Race, which is a race around the Matterhorn in August. And then I've got an exciting project coming up at the end of 2022 in Tassie again, planning to run the Northwest Point, so Woolner wo last point all the way to the South East Cape.
00:20:21
Speaker
So like a big traverse across Tassie, which will be about, I think about 700 k's of the route that I've kind of mapped out at the moment and about 20,000
00:20:32
Speaker
metres of elevation came. I'm not sure how long will take me. I'm trying to figure out but what are the best, because it will sort of link up from the Penguin's Cradle and then the Overland and then somehow ill get from Derwood Bridge to Scotts Peak Dam and then probably be doing the South Port Davies South Coast again.
00:20:52
Speaker
I was trying to avoid it because I really wanted to do the Western Eastern Arthas, but um the Eastern Arthas is closed and I think it will remain that way for quite some time because after the bushfires, I think of, can't remember the year that they were, but the track is is still is still closed after the fires and I don't see it opening this year. So I think I'll be revisiting the Port Davies South Coast tracks. I don't know how stoked I am about that, but...
00:21:16
Speaker
It'll be fun. So that's kind of the big the big project of 2022, round across Tassie, yeah. Wow. Have you recruited support? Are you doing a supported, obviously? Yes, I will be doing it, yes, supported very much. So um I haven't quite got around to kind of organising that, but if anyone's down in Tassie, I'll likely be doing it early December. So if you want to join for a leg or two, yeah reach out.
00:21:39
Speaker
The more the merrier.
Chamonix Terrain and Climate Observations
00:21:40
Speaker
Oh, let's put it out there, people. If you want to get down there and Port Millie, get in touch. Actually, Millie, but but before I open up, just something you said before about Chamonix, where you are now. I've never been there, obviously, but the photos are just incredible. I just wanted to know, is it as beautiful as it looks in the photos? like Can you just describe the the terrain, where where you are? Yeah, so from my apartment right now, I'm just looking out the window at the Agui Rouges, which is opposite. So one side of the valley is like a mostly nice rock and it's beautiful like rock climbing up here, big spires. But behind me, which I can't see out my window, is the Mont Blanc Massive. So from the
00:22:21
Speaker
The centre of Chamonix, you look up um at the highest mountain in Europe, Mont Blanc, and then all of the beautiful big granite spires, like along the Mont Blanc massive all the way up the valley, towering granite, beautiful clouds moving through the glaciers, kind of almost coming down and licking the town, although there has been a lot of... We've had a heat wave here the last week or so, so that's really... um There's been a lot of melt, and i was up in the mountains a couple of days ago, and the snow was...
Film Collaboration and Adventure Planning
00:22:48
Speaker
very slushy and fickle and quite scary. it's Certainly like an eye-opening in terms of seeing climate change firsthand, for sure. But it's absolutely incredibly stunning. Every time I step outside and look up, it's just like, whoa.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. That is awesome. All right, well, I might um put it out there. I just wanted to do a plug for, so Millie's short film, Muddiest Known Time, it's available on Adventure Plus. um So check out Adventure Plus to um to watch that film. And I will say, actually, Will, just to correct you that I did not make that film and I can't take any credit for it. That was the one little Alex Clapham, whose company, his media company is called Media by the Untamed, and that is his company.
00:23:33
Speaker
amazing film work and stitching it all together, which he did in a really short amount of time um to get it into the Gutsy Girls Film Festival. So, yeah, that's all Alex. I did the running, but he did everything else. So, yeah, I can't take any credit for that. Credit to the artist. i love it. that's That's good. Congrats, Alex. All right. So, look, we have Hilary's on the call looking after the chat, but um there's there's not too many people on the call. So maybe just jump in and ask Millie question. Hey, Millie. I'm super excited for your epic adventure across Tassie later this year. How long have you been kind of dreaming up that route for? ah
00:24:09
Speaker
When did I start thinking about it? Like a couple of months ago, was just kind of looking, what long runs could I do in Australia? And I thought of like the Bib Track and the, is it the Hasten Trail in South Australia? and then I was like, oh,
00:24:24
Speaker
I might just make one up across Tassie. And actually a friend, a couple of friends of mine have hiked like similar passages across Tassie before, like starting in Penguin making their way to Coff Creek.
00:24:35
Speaker
So definitely got some inspiration from them and hopefully some GPS tracks when it comes to the time. But probably actually about a month ago, I sat down properly with Guy GPS and kind of planned out a route the real crux is between Derwent Bridge and Scotts Peak Dam because there's not trails that go through there you can certainly do a bit of off track but it wouldn't be very runnable and I would quite like to I mean, who knows? That'll be however many days into the seven hundred k So who knows how much we're actually running then. But, um yeah, I'd like to try and try and make the terrain somewhat runnable. So I think I'll link up some fire trails through there to get Scott's Peak Dam. But, yeah, it should be a good project. Like, fingers crossed I get there healthy and no injuries and being able to do it. But, yeah, it should be fun.
00:25:29
Speaker
I'm looking forward to it. I feel like a summer in Chamonix will get your mountain legs in in good shape. Exactly. That's the plan. Oh, that's awesome. No, definitely. I'd love to reach out and like, yeah, try and, I don't know, find people who want to be involved. There's obviously huge trail running scene in Tassie, but also like we all love getting down, any excuse to get down to Tassie for a run. But, yeah, I guess it sounds like keeping up might be the hard part with your, you know, mountain legs. Maybe the the back end. Yeah.
00:25:58
Speaker
No, that'd be great. Yeah, it's netty as many people that want to join, it it would be it would be fun to make it, yeah, like ah just a big party. Yeah, and I guess like on that, with these big adventures, like they're obviously a personal challenge, but...
Inspiring Environmental Advocacy through Adventure
00:26:13
Speaker
Are there other things that you want to kind of get out of them in terms of like awareness or I guess also just showing people that you can just come up with an idea and go and do it? You know, working in the energy sector and obviously seeing the impacts of climate change wherever you are, especially in Chamonix, like does that play a part in your kind of choosing where you want to do and what you want to do? Yeah. So I think it's definitely like, as you mentioned, like a thread of anyone can do it and just, I guess, in a way like...
00:26:42
Speaker
Not that I would say that I'm like an example of that, you know, but, um, you know, there are way more other people who are doing amazing, way more amazing things to, to show that, you know we can all, we can all do these things, but that's certainly like something it's like, no matter who you are and how little running, when, when you started running or when you started climbing or whatever, it if you can dream up something, you can, you know, take small steps to eventually get there. And, um,
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think the whole idea of running in wild places and beautiful wilderness areas like the running Tassie, for example, also to showcase like to other people, like, you know, wild places and still exist and how important they are.
00:27:29
Speaker
for both like, you know, to play in, but also to protect. And, you know, I think running is a great canvas to not only get people into those wild places and exploring them, because once you why don't you visit a wild place, you know, you you have an affinity to to that place and you and to nature. And I think that spurs people to to want to protect it more.
00:27:52
Speaker
i think that is sort of like the catch-22 of the environmental crisis, right? And like, you know, building trails in in wild places. Like, we want everybody to be able to access wild places so that they they love them and they want to protect them.
00:28:06
Speaker
But there is also that element of with more people visiting wild places, more environmental degradation. So, yeah, Yeah, it's a fun balancing act. um But back to your question, I think, yeah, the main reason it's like obviously like a personal challenge and like putting yourself in difficult good situations to be able to discover more okay about your psyche and and your your your
Cultural Attitudes towards Nature in Europe and Australia
00:28:32
Speaker
physical and mental capacity, but also, yeah just going out and having a beautiful time in nature and and kind of hoping that that inspires other people to do the same. No, I'm sure you will.
00:28:48
Speaker
Millie, not sure if you can see the chat, but Shane's asked, um do you see a difference in how the trails and wild places are managed and treated in Chamonix compared to back in Australia? I think there's sort of like being here in the Chamonix Valley, you and then just in Europe in general, I think there's so much infrastructure here.
00:29:07
Speaker
So it's not, I wouldn't say it's really wild. We're not in a I mean, it is wild. if You go up into Mont Blanc Massif and, you know, you're at the mercy, in the mercy of the mountains, but there's chairlifts going up to the mountains, like all around. There's literally trails everywhere. You go up to like 3,000 metres, there's cafes. um So there's certainly a lot more infrastructure. There's also a lot more people. From what I have seen...
00:29:37
Speaker
The trails are, one thing that I would say is is a little bit different is I haven't seen any rubbish around at all, which is such a delight considering how many people there are. think there's like certainly a respect for would we call them wild? Perhaps not, but I respect for like nature here and the trails. um Incredibly well kept, signposts everywhere.
00:30:03
Speaker
So they just like, I think like a lot more perhaps money because of tourism and because of like the money but that that brings to these areas, a lot more money goes into like upkeep of trails and just making sure everything's like...
00:30:16
Speaker
well-maintained, et cetera. I haven't ventured further than Chamonix to have much of, um, many thoughts beyond, beyond this part, but yeah, I think there seems to be just a perhaps more of a respect, like, yeah, everything seems to be very, clean and no litter, yeah, which
Community Support and Sponsorship
00:30:41
Speaker
is different. I mean, it depends where you are in Australia. But, yeah, i i you do see a lot of litter on trailers in the pods. Do you think that cleanliness is just a culture of people looking, a culture of people picking up after themselves or is there kind of public infrastructure around, you know, garbage collection essentially? Yeah. I haven't seen garbage collection on the trails. There might be like good trail maintenance.
00:31:05
Speaker
I think it's, yeah, just people picking up after themselves. Like in general, like the town Chamonix is very clean as ah most of the the towns dotted along this valley. But as I said, like there must be a lot of money coming in. Like the Guida Midi cable car, which is the chairlift for that or the cable car that goes up to the Guida Midi, which is sort of 3,800 metres, like just below Mont Blanc, is I think the second highest visited tourist attraction aside from the Eiffel Tower in France. So there's a lot of money there because there's a lot of tourism money that comes comes to this town and, you know, the skiing in the winter and the mountain biking, the running, the climbing, the alchemism in the summer um is certainly a destination for a lot of people. So I'm sure that there is a lot of infrastructure and a lot of money that goes into, like keeping everything clean and more intent. But it's certainly like a big playground.
00:31:59
Speaker
Comparing something like this to something in Tassie where, you know, you go on a trail and you see nobody and you're completely... you know, in the wilderness, like, there's people everywhere on these trails, like, yeah, it's just like a Disney world.
00:32:18
Speaker
So I'm looking very forward to the day where I don't actually see McDonald's wrappers and packaging on trails in New South Wales where I've mainly explored. um i am just curious. I haven't actually watched The Muddiest Known Time, but I currently have an Adventure Plus subscription, so I'm going to get on that sometime soon. How do you go about convincing people to like follow along on that like trail and get people involved and to make a movie about it?
00:32:44
Speaker
How do you get all that to happen basically and to to believe in what whatever it is that you're doing? Ah, great question. ah um Actually, it just turned out, I don't know, it just kind of fell into place. Like um Alex, who made the movie, is so I grew up in a tiny little country town in WA and his girlfriend and is from my hometown.
00:33:05
Speaker
And we got chatting, sadly, at a funeral. But yeah. We were just talking about, knew he's really into outdoor sports, snowboarding, highlining, bit of climbing. We were just chatting and I, he was talking about how he wanted to um start doing some adventure filmmaking. And I was like, oh, well, I'm doing this run in Tassie. And like, you can you're more than welcome to like come and make a film about it if you want kind of thing is how it started out. So that's how that kind of slice happened. And then um the only really other thing that I needed for... the the run in terms of like outside support. I was thinking about running it completely solo, but there is, well, first of all, like I hadn't run 100 miles before and I would be running through the night. And in the past, like throughout my life, I've had suffered from seizures, usually triggered by kind of lack of sleep or like
00:34:04
Speaker
you know, really intense physical exertion or pain or things like that. And so I wasn't sure whether or not doing something like that would cause me to have a seizure. So I was a little bit hesitant to do it by myself.
00:34:20
Speaker
especially because like in the end, like I was like, well, there is a chance that I'll have to swim some of these water crossings and that would be you know like basically, yeah, i like a death sentence if I had to sit here in the water or whatever. um And there was also a passage where I had to row 400 metres across this kind of like open channel of water.
00:34:41
Speaker
um And if the boats were, where So there's row boats there. If you get to one side and you have one row boat, you need to row the boat across, collect another row boat, bring two boats back, leave one boat, and then but there were like three boat crossings.
00:34:59
Speaker
And I'm not a very good rower. Open water, you know, especially if there was like current or like high winds or whatever. So that that was like certainly the crux for me. So I decided that I needed a a support runner. Yeah, and the boats are so heavy. That's right, Elizabeth.
00:35:15
Speaker
i yes i was throughou I would have like struggled to pull the boats up myself. So in the end, I they decided like I really needed a support runner. And so I got my mate Tom to come down and help me. um And he was like, like ex, like almost, almost my Australian rower kind of thing. So was like, perfect for the job to make sure that the like the boats were ready for me to row across and then to support me the rest of the time in case I had a seizure.
00:35:44
Speaker
It was funny though, because like Tom, I think the furthest he'd run was like 20 Ks in like the lead up to doing that run. So, I mean, he'd done lots of cycling beforehand and he'd done like a big epic um a bike ride from like Melbourne to Aubrey, I think before. So he was fit, but he hadn't run that far. So we were both in a lot of pain in the second half of that run. Maybe with my broken toe and who him with his unconditioned legs. So, yeah, I think just like having mates who are like, you know, it's good question in a row that way. Like in having mates who are like just willing to have a crack and come and support you is super, super important. But um yeah, I think for this run in Tassie, I've got, I'll have like a whole group of of mates who will come and support and like drive drive cars and whatnot.
00:36:36
Speaker
But then you just put the word out there. and just saying to whoever wants to come and join, right? Like, yeah, have a GPS track and keep perhaps like, I don't know, a Facebook page or an Instagram page, like updated it on and where I am if anyone wants to come to join at certain sections.
Advice for Ultra Marathon Preparation
00:37:00
Speaker
anyway So any tips on getting sponsorship um or grants to make your ventures happen? Yeah, so the North Face grant, so the run that I did in in Tassie was a ah North Face grant supported and that all happened like pretty early.
00:37:18
Speaker
but I think we submitted it like the day that it was due kind of thing. And I think at the time it was helpful because it was something that was in Australia because like with COVID, North Face was looking to support things like within the country and look like adventures a little closer to home.
00:37:38
Speaker
And I think at the time, think, like it was a little bit different to things that they'd supported before which were more like uh skiing and climbing so the whole like kind of running fkt long thing that hadn't really been done before so that was quite fresh but i think yeah just looking at the different brands and different companies and actually i learned this from alex because i was like complete newbie to this but alex who made the movie um actually kind of like spearheaded that part of the of the project he just like emailed a bunch of different companies and more often than not people are really really willing and and um happy to support whether it's like gels or like gear yeah but whatever like i think companies are just keen to get involved if you're if you're like
00:38:31
Speaker
Doing something fun and you're enthusiastic and just kind of throwing mud at a wall and seeing what you stick, I think, is the approach that we
Cross-Training Benefits for Running
00:38:38
Speaker
took. And you had access to a lot of mud. Exactly. Well, yeah, I didn't really mean that as like a pun, but totally pun intended. Al, did you have another question?
00:38:46
Speaker
I did have another question, actually. It's more in terms of just advice for running your first 100 miles and keen for that and how you said that you were a little bit undertrained and that I'm running my first 100 miles in December and I'm just worried about being undertrained.
00:39:02
Speaker
Just curious if you can provide any advice. Yeah. So what's the 100 miler? I'm doing the Ultra Trail Kosciuszko 100 miler. Awesome. What's my advice? I think like, I just didn't, I didn't know what I was getting myself into really. I guess I'd run 50 miles before that. And like, even i don't think my training weeks are even that big, like maybe, maybe 80, 90 K a week leading in for a couple of weeks. So not, I wasn't even, I wasn't doing that high training ah volume. I think just like,
00:39:37
Speaker
being prepared for all the things that could go wrong. Like I did write myself a spreadsheet beforehand of like all the possible things that could go wrong. And just like really creative with it.
00:39:50
Speaker
And then what I would do to fix it. And just like having that, having thought about that beforehand, like, so when the time came, like had that in my mind. I'd previously thought about it. I was like, okay, cool. I know how to deal with this. And obviously things will come up which you haven't planned for, but just, I think in 100 miles,
00:40:09
Speaker
so much, I mean, yeah I'm not talking from much experience, I've only done it once, but so much can go wrong. So just like being prepared to problem solve and knowing that every like things will go wrong and that's part of the the heart of the fun and part of the adventure and I think like a big part of it.
00:40:27
Speaker
Of longer, like, ultra running is, like, not only how fit you are sort of or how mentally tough you are, but how well you can problem solve. Practice eating, yeah. Do you think, given that you've come from a climbing background and to someone who's only done bouldering a few times but really wants to sort of get more into bouldering, do you think that, like, the fitness or muscular strength actually transfers over well to ultra running?
00:40:54
Speaker
or do you think they are quite sort of separate sport and treated as such? I think alpine climbing and long multi-pitch climbing, maybe not so much, but alpine climbing definitely, you know, long approaches with heavy-ish packs and then long days in the mountains.
00:41:10
Speaker
transfers over somewhat well to ultra running, especially if you're on very vertical terrain. If you're parro covering a lot of elevation gain and loss, then I think outland climbing can be a good like school's transfer.
00:41:25
Speaker
ah And certainly just like the baseline level of endurance that you need. Outland climbing, you're not really getting your heart rate up much. It's usually all in kind of like... zone one max, maybe sometimes zone two if you're like dealing with some difficult moves. But I think like sport climbing and bouldering less so.
00:41:44
Speaker
i mean, if you talk to any climber who's like and really into sport climbing, bouldering, you don't run. a Like running is not good climbing. Like supposedly and climbing not so good for running. It's just you're using different energy systems.
00:42:00
Speaker
And yeah climbing is you know much more of a strength baseball, whereas running is much more endurance. However, that being said, I do really think that some of the kind of multi-planar strength that you get from climbing transfers well to like like being agile on your feet and being able to move in different directions when you're running, especially over technical terrain. so I mean, I think if you like want to be a world-class boulderer, maybe running is not the best complimentary sport for you.
00:42:31
Speaker
But like, last you know, if you're just out there to have fun and enjoy and like adventure, then I think it's great to be boulder.
Closing Remarks and Future Episodes
00:42:40
Speaker
And it's really good, something that I've experienced a lot. in having those both of those sports is like oh I've got a knee injury cool I can still climb or recently I've had like really bad wrist injury for a couple of months it's like well that's okay I can still run so it's like it's nice to just have both sports that require different muscle groups and different energy systems so that yeah you've just got that diversity as well and it's just way more fun multi-sports are definitely fun thank you for that appreciate Well, folks, that that hour has just blown by. Thanks, everyone, for joining our our second trail chat and a very special thanks to Millie for giving us your time. We really appreciate it
00:43:19
Speaker
Thanks so much for having me. Great to meet a few new faces and, yeah, see you again, Hilary. Great to see you. Thanks so much, Millie. See you later.
00:43:36
Speaker
Now we are going to time travel from June 2022 to February 2025, where we join Millie once again in Chamonix, France.
00:43:48
Speaker
Thank you, Millie, for joining us here back on the Wild Places podcast. We last spoke in June 2022, so that is quite a while ago now. couple years ago. It is. you'd rate You just moved to Chamonix. We're settling in, and I guess it was summer there, your time, winter. We've now switched climates. You're now in the depths of winter.
00:44:10
Speaker
We just had a 38-degree day in Melbourne in January. It's February now, pardon me. Yeah. But yeah, we just wanted to check in and see why you've come since Muddiest Known Time, which was your last at the time, your big adventure. And you've had quite a few adventures since then. You've traded the the Western um Tasmania for the hills of Chamonix and surrounds. But how are you and what have you been up to, i guess, today, yesterday, this week? What's been keeping you busy?
00:44:37
Speaker
I've been well, Hill. Today, yesterday, this week, unfortunately, we didn't talk about this before, I had a little ski prang. Oh, no. Maybe a year week, bit over a week ago, and I'm in a, I'm sort of like floating in the unknown at the moment, haven't yet got an MRI, but I've seen two physios who both are like, oh, your ACL's bit weird.
00:45:02
Speaker
a bit how you're going so I've not been doing much this week except um sitting on the stationary bike and worrying about whether or not I've torn my ACL that's that's huge because you've been doing a lot of skiing being over in Chamonix did you feel anything at the time or was it a bit of a tweak a bit of a twang or was it not till after that something didn't feel right um It was pretty sort of ah ridiculous in the way that it happened. I had been skiing all day and then was kind of standing skill still in my skis and went to move and fell on the ground.
00:45:40
Speaker
Oh, dear. Yeah, ow, my knee. But it didn't, yeah like, it wasn't too bad. And then skied down and then the next day it was like I tried to ski and it just wasn't happening. So if anything, it's hopefully not too bad.
00:45:56
Speaker
But I guess kind of I won't know until I get an MRI. and So yeah, and that knee is a bit funny anyway because I have done the ACL and an MCL on that knee.
00:46:07
Speaker
maybe it's just old stuff come up and I've stretched it or something, touch wood, but we'll see. Yes, definitely touching wood for you because you, on your social media, which is where all the best things happen, of course, you are always out and about playing in the mountains.
00:46:25
Speaker
Well, someone living on the other side of the world, I like to, that hasn't thrived a lot of the sports that you have, like climbing and most recently ice climbing and mountaineering. What keeps you busy this time of the year? Apart from skiing, what sports do you spend most of your time doing these days?
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah, in the winter it's um it's not a lot of running ah because most of the most of the trails and roads are covered in snow. I mean, and that doesn't put off everybody, but I find it hard to motivate myself to go running.
00:46:54
Speaker
ah um So yeah a lot of skiing and and still a ah reasonable amount of climbing, like, you know, indoors to train and then outside. Yeah.
00:47:07
Speaker
Ice climbing is definitely not an area of climbing that I am super familiar with. I've done a little bit of it and this winter I've been trying to do a lot more. um So, yeah, the last few weeks the conditions have been quite good, so trying to get in a fair bit of ice climbing.
00:47:25
Speaker
um And then mostly, yeah, mostly skiing outside of that. Definitely with skiing, obviously, I love the uphill and then when it comes to going down, it's another story. It's like Bambi, like wobbly legs. um But no, skiing is certainly something that I only picked up um like in like lately, recently, mostly since I moved to Chamonix.
00:47:51
Speaker
So it's certainly like a skill that I've learned as an adult and I've got a kind of love-hate relationship with skiing just seems to take my knees and I don't, I don't know. It's so much fun, but um it's definitely one of the more dangerous sports I think that I've, I've tried.
00:48:09
Speaker
I was going to ask that because growing up in Tassie, the options for downhill skiing are pretty limited. Well, I grew up in WA actually. Oh, of course. That's right. was yeah you yeah My mom's Tasmania. I spent a lot of time there, but yeah,
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah, I grew up in Southwest WA. So yeah, no skiing in childhood. No snow over there, that's for sure. Well, I also learned to ski in my, well, I think was about 20 or something. But like I was a child again when I started because I was having the biggest hissy fits and following my sister who was a better skier down the mountain. And she's like, it's fine, it's fine. And then I'm like, this is not fine.
00:48:47
Speaker
yeah And the only way is down. Like but we were in resort. So, you know, it's not like you can pop the skins on and hike your way back up again. So you just kind of had to push through and blail yourself down the mountain as best you could without hopefully hurting anything on the way. Exactly. And it's, yeah, it's an interesting one skiing in the sense like you can, when you, you if you're touring with skins, you can get up to wherever you want to go, but it's getting down that's it's the scary bit it's like unlike say climbing where if you start a climb and it's too difficult you can most of the time retreat but with skiing once you're there you you've got to get down somehow so yeah I totally relate in terms of the hissy fits I think like skiing is one of the the things that I've learned one of the hardest things one of the hardest sports I think I've had to learn and one of those You know, you often so many times have those moments of like the internal hissy fit, like, am I ever going get good at this? Like, and, you know, I've definitely gone through a process where I've had lessons and I've put a lot of time and energy into getting better at skiing. And then you'll just have days where it all falls apart. And yeah, it's, yeah, it's just one of those things that it's just a constant process trying to learn to be better, be be a better skier.
00:50:06
Speaker
And I can imagine that where you are, you'd be surrounded by people who have been skiing before they could walk and just make it look so effortless and easy and you're trying to probably keep up with them and follow them down a mountain and and hide your nerves and, you know, so internal stress.
00:50:25
Speaker
Indeed, yeah. there's There's so many great skis around here and the skiing's pretty steep. So in terms of a place to learn to ski, maybe Chamonix is not the the greatest place. Yeah. But, yeah, it's good to be thrown in the deep end and it's always good to do things with people who are a lot better than you and learn.
00:50:42
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it's a quick learning curve when you're skiing with skiers who are – you know, people who are phenomenal skiers who have been skiing all their lives. And yeah, I guess in that sense, it it can be a good place to learn.
00:50:53
Speaker
Last year, my brother came, my brother moved to Chamonix and he learned to ski last February. He picked up the skis and it was ultimately frustrating when, you know after just a couple of weeks, he was like I think he learned to ski in February and in April he skied off Mont Blanc.
00:51:11
Speaker
um Oh my goodness. stopped skiing so quickly. I mean, he has lots of mountaineering experience and skateboarding experience in the past, but yeah, ah that was the ultimate frustration.
00:51:22
Speaker
Is this um the same brother that you spent 115 hours touring around Mont Blanc back in September last year? Yes, that is the same brother, my brother Charlie. I've got two brothers and that's, yeah, my youngest brother. yeah Was that on the cards before Charlie moved to Chamonix? Has that been a you know, a long-time sib sibling relationship?
00:51:45
Speaker
Actually, no. So we were talking before about the the podcast, the UTMB podcast. that um And so that year, Charlie and I were crewing. So Charlie was over here for the summer. We spent the summer climbing and we were crewing Matt Dunn um at UTMB together.
00:52:04
Speaker
And we I'd like heard of the PTL before the year before I'd seen like a bunch of runners wearing helmets, like just starting out and running up the Chamonix VK um with like ice axes on their back. What the hell is going on here?
00:52:23
Speaker
And then, yeah, someone like told me that it was this race called the PTL, but I sort of didn't really think much about it. And then um this is all like during the UTMB week. And then UTMB 2023, Charlie and I, we were crewing Matt.
00:52:38
Speaker
um And Matt, unfortunately, dropped didn't finish he he dnf'd at treant with like 30ks to um devastating but he'll be i think he's back this year to try again um but the next day we were standing at the finish line like watching the final runners of the utmb come in and there were these runners that weren't part of utmb running in pairs or threes like totally bedraggled like looking just like Yes, dirty, like sweaty, looking so exhausted. Like they got helmets hanging from their backs, like cramplins, these massive backpacks.
00:53:19
Speaker
And we're just where the hell have these people been? um And it turns out they'd been racing the PTL. So most of them, they were these are like back of the pack of the PTL. So they'd been going and out nearly seven days. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. on trialo And Charlie and I were like, that looks like fun. We should try and do the PTL next year. And, yeah, so ever since that moment, we had like we had our eyes on the PTL um and were lucky enough to apply and get in for last year, 2024.
00:53:50
Speaker
well So, yeah. Yeah. Wow. So it was a year from concept to execution. Yeah. That's pretty remarkable because 300 kilometers with over, what is it? 25,000 meters of climbing.
00:54:04
Speaker
And yeah, it sounds like you've got to be totally self-sufficient as well in those conditions and know what you're doing out there. Yeah. With your axes and your crampons, were you both prepared, had the the skills and the I guess worked on the fitness, but how was your experience? Yeah, so in order to participate, in order to apply for the PTO, you need to um you need to fill out like a resume of climbing, like mountaineering, alpine climbing, um long distance running and then like navigation orienteering kind of experience.
00:54:37
Speaker
um because they're sort of all the skills that you need and the 300k is around the mont blanc so it's yeah it's it's it's a foot race it's a running race but the race itself it's been really interesting i've recently like kind of got obsessed with the race and been um looking into the history of the race and it was designed by this guy called um i think he's jean paul more mormier or some some something like this and he um was a ah mountaineer ahead of the French kind of mountain troops. um He was the guy who came up with the idea for the Piole d'Or, which is like the the yearly like best alpine climbs. was like heavily entrenched in like mountaineering and alpine climbing. And he designed the PTL as this like race that combined like endurance, long distance running with, I guess, the mountaineering side of it and the self-sufficiency
00:55:26
Speaker
um And rumour has it that he get like train himself by sleeping outside on his porch in the middle of Chamonix winter. and Anyway, so yeah, in terms of like ah applying for this race, you you need to show that you have this this experience, like um this mountain experience. So Charlie and I had this. We've been climbing together for a long time.
00:55:50
Speaker
The running side maybe Charlie didn't have, but um I knew that he was capable of doing you um And in terms of, yeah, preparation like preparation, we actually spent a lot of the summer before. Well, I actually tore my MCO last season skiing.
00:56:07
Speaker
ah um So then we had like June until August, so a pretty like condensed window in which trained. But we, yeah, did a lot of alpine climbing, did a lot of mountaineering and just tried to keep like the the training really fun.
00:56:21
Speaker
Follow like a structured like we running training program, so to speak. But we... Did lots of fun missions and just made sure that we were ready to like have really long days in the mountains with not a lot not a lot of sleep. Yeah, there's only one way to train for that, isn't it? And just to go out there and and do it. Yeah. We did a recce trip. So like and as I was saying before, like in terms of the terrain, like the the mandatory kid is like you end up carrying a lot of stuff. Like I think our packs are between 8 and 10 kilos. Yeah.
00:56:51
Speaker
um The mandatory kit is like crampons. We didn't have ice axes this year. I don't know if they've had them in the past. I'm pretty sure I saw them one year. Helmet, um harness, via ferrata kit because ah like a lot of the technical sections are like on via ferrata. It's often just like static ropes bolted into the rock. where If you fall, it's going to be pretty pretty nasty. So yeah, it's like a lot of technical terrain um that you're traveling on and you know you're often using your hands as well as you your legs to to move over the terrain. In terms of like the preparation, it was like, yeah, a lot of climbing, running, um biking, just being fit for kind of everything and making sure that the stamina to keep pushing. What an experience. And how was the weather that year? And because you guys did amazingly, you were the third mix, sorry, third overall and first mix team across the finish line, which is is amazing. How was your actual experience out there and did it, I'm sure it didn't all go to plan, but did it go mostly to plan? Yeah.
00:57:55
Speaker
Yeah, for the most part, like it was, we were super lucky with the weather. um We had one night where it rained or maybe two. But apart from that, like it was, we had a high pressure system and we had like super, super weather. The year before, I think it snowed for the first three days. And Charlie and I coming from Western Australia did not do it. Yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
So we were like pretty apprehensive if it was going to be the same the same weather conditions. um Probably we would have seen a very different result for us. But, um yeah, in terms of the experience, I mean, we we went going in, we had pretty not like great expectations. We'd done a recce maybe a month before where we recce-ed like three days of the old PTL course because the the course changes every year because obviously part of it is like navigation and figuring out where you're going. So we reckoned like ah three days of the course, like a month before the race, um and got a pretty good idea of like how the kind of terrain that would that would likely be involved and how fast we would move over that terrain.
00:58:58
Speaker
And we made a bit of a race map or like an understanding just so we had a bit of a clue about when we should sleep and where we would be at certain times of the day. And in the end, we ended up finishing two hours after our predicted eight finish, which is like, I don't even know. That's incredible. It doesn't even happen in like a short race. Totally. Let alone over that many hours, that many days. In terms of the experience, like we didn't go in with much expectation.
00:59:25
Speaker
um We had spoken to a couple of people before who had done the race in the past who had who had sort of said, take it easy. The race doesn't start until you've got like 100 Ks to go. and even still, the PTL is not a race.
00:59:38
Speaker
It's an adventure. There's no podium at the end. There's no prize money. It is like literally just like pure adventure out there with your partner or partners if you're in a team of three. And there's this like beautiful camaraderie that is amongst the different teams. That being said, like after the first day, we really didn't see that many other teams. There was this one group of three Chinese guys who we were kind of yo-yoing with and these two Belgian guys that we were doing the same with, but we didn't see them after day two. So it was kind of me and Charlie out there on our own for a lot of the time.
01:00:13
Speaker
And the experience was honestly beautiful. Like I don't know if there's anything that I've done in my life so far that would like rival this as one of the, as the, you know, best, most beautiful five days I've spent in the mountains. There was so many highs, so many lows, like beautiful and harrowing moments, like amazing.
01:00:34
Speaker
We slept for seven and a half hours over the 114. So like not little not much sleep, like lots of hallucinating, lots of hilarious moments, just like, yeah. And it all just kind of blends blends together into this kind of like menage of of different like like memories with no time stamp and it's hard to kind of remember like exactly what happened. Yeah. Yeah, the experience was like one of the best, like the best thing that I've ever done in the mountains.
01:01:06
Speaker
And to share it with my my brother was yeah just so special. Because when you did your Muddy As Known Time, that was a solo pursuit. And, you know, this one you had had your brother along. How...
01:01:18
Speaker
different was it trying to, I guess, manage in those times where you are either feeling might be all the endorphins and your body's kind of in a shock a bit, but like the highest of highs and then the lowest of lows when you're in your own head versus when you've got someone beside you that actually understands or might be going through the same thing or might be feeling awful when you're charging along and feeling fantastic. How was the the difference in experience when it was just ah just you and then with Charlie? Yeah. That's a really good question here. I think like when you do something like that on your own where you're kind of pushed like to your limits and have to really, really dig deep, there's like a moment where you, i suppose, like like confront, yeah, you're really forced to confront yourself. And maybe when you do that with somebody else, you don't get this same like self-transformation perhaps or this kind of –
01:02:14
Speaker
Like it's it's less of a journey into the depths of yourself. I used to get that when you're in ah in a partnership, but there's more of an opportunity to kind of share that experience with the other person. And when, i don't know, when we were, when Charlie and I were together during the race, I mean, we've done a lot of things together. So,
01:02:34
Speaker
it's It's good now we we understand. We can kind of read each other and understand when the other's having a low, help to kind of bring that out ah like bring them out of that. The good thing was like when I was having a low, Charlie was often having a high and and vice versa. So someone would always like kind of take the lead or you know, like i definitely like in the nights I would hit my lows and Charlie would be like having the best time on a high.
01:03:01
Speaker
navigating like I'd be like back there hallucinating just like knowing that I had to just like follow him wherever he was going. So in that sense, it was great like doing it with somebody else.
01:03:12
Speaker
And I think as well like, you know, we – when In times when you'd otherwise go in your head and start to question why you're doing it and like having those negative thoughts, we just pull each other out of it and like play funny games, like try and play like games of memory when our minds were like totally fried. And like we actually carried a speaker with us adding a few extra grams.
01:03:35
Speaker
um but Probably worth every gram for the and morale that it bought. So just like doing things like that, trying to like, yeah, play games, tell jokes, listen to music and keep the mood pretty pretty high. And for the most part, like, we had such a good time out there. There were definitely some moments where things got dark, but we also, like, had had our phones and we were able to, like, charge them. We carried, like, charters with us and...
01:04:03
Speaker
You know, we'd send like messages to like family and friend WhatsApp groups and people would send us voice messages back. Like that was always a morale boost as well. Yeah. So was like little things like that. But I think in terms of like the contrast between doing something like that yourself and doing it in a team, like I really like the PTL for that reason and we're going to do it again this year. um Sort of like thinking about ah Tour de Jean, which is another like 300k race, which you do alone or doing the PTL.
01:04:31
Speaker
And PTL is much more technical, which I'm i'm more drawn to that. But also, like, just the team element is so wonderful. Like, I loved sharing that experience with somebody else. And you kind of come out of this, like...
01:04:45
Speaker
like wild five days of just like you're on this total trip and you come out and you're like wow yeah you know we've just shared something and no one else can understand what we've done like in terms of just like the experience that we had together it's kind of like this fun little secret that you have together so yeah well it does feel kind of isolating when you do travel or do things on your own and you have an amazing experience you're kind of like wow like that was really special. But then you kind of look around for someone to share it with and it's kind of special sometimes having that to yourself. But then, yeah, when it is shared, it kind of makes it feel more real and means that then you can draw on it in future because you've got that shared memory. And I'm sure that when you're doing it again this year, you're probably like, remember this time last year when like you were hallucinating and that will be something that you'll forever have that the rest of your family will probably think,
01:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, what do your family think of you two heading out together and are they equally, not equally, but also very outdoorsy and and and get it? Yeah, definitely. Like um where we're always like joking that we're trying to like recruit our other brother.
01:05:55
Speaker
ah ah Yeah, he's probably feeling a bit left out sometimes or he's like, no, I'm just happy to crew and like keep a safe distance. Yeah, no, I think deep down he'd love to do something like that. but you know, life He's got other life priorities that he's he's working on right now. He's about to get married and um yeah, doing that thing, which is really exciting. For sure, like our dad, he loves like long, he's done a lot of kind of like adventure racing and long distance endurance feats and he loves this stuff and he understands it pretty intimately.
01:06:29
Speaker
um And the rest of our family as well, like aunts, uncles, cousins. I think they're all like it was great having them all follow along and like chatting to them on the on the WhatsApp voice messages and stuff.
01:06:41
Speaker
um I don't know if they all like completely comprehend exactly like why, but can all get around it and enjoy it and celebrate it. So that's pretty cool. And we had like during the race we had our uncle who's like a mathematician, like checking out all of the the other teams and how fast we were going and like how much we were sleeping and kind of calculate, giving us little updates, calculating, okay, this team's like five hours behind you.
01:07:06
Speaker
You know, you've got to maybe don't sleep as long at this checkpoint, et cetera. Not that it's a race, you know, ptyl is an adventure, but by four, by day three, we were definitely racing.
01:07:18
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sure just having that even more of a team effort. And that's the great thing about, I guess, trail running and ultra running and any kind of endurance sport is even though it is just yourself or as a team, it does kind of bring in by nature the people around you, whether it be the people out on course and the volunteers or the people that you're doing it alongside with, like who might be the competition, but you know, you can't help but have a camaraderie out there. And even when it is a solo sport, those, those moments of connection that you get when you get a bit of service certainly keep, can keep you going when, when you need a little bit of a pep in your step. Yeah, absolutely.
01:07:55
Speaker
And yeah, as you said, it's very much like it is a solo sport I'm in PTL, yeah, a duo jewish thing. But um I guess the the beautiful thing, one of the beautiful things about trail running is that everyone's out there like on like for the same purpose, you know whether it be like experiencing nature, getting the most out of yourself, going on your own journey.
01:08:15
Speaker
But at the same time, you know, there's like a ah real camaraderie amongst everyone because like everyone's in that same position trying to get the most out of themselves, having this like beautiful trip in nature.
01:08:26
Speaker
um And it's always, yeah, it's such a good community, such a good community of like-minded people.
01:08:35
Speaker
I guess you've been in Chamonix for probably a couple of years, almost three years. Yeah, so this is like permanently since I like moved permanently because I was kind of going back and forth for a while. This is like my two-year anniversary pretty much this month.
01:08:49
Speaker
Well, congratulations. Yeah. And how has Chamonix changed, all your views on Chamonix changed? And i know it takes a while to be a local, but being there for all the seasons and seeing the changes in the landscapes and the snow from year to year, and have you noticed changes in in what's around you and like the impact of climate change and potentially tourism and and all this stuff that is having on such a fragile ecosystem as this is around you? Yeah, great question. um Yeah, so I suppose like the season the seasonal changes, like it's it's, I've never lived in a place, well I have like before I lived a little bit in the US and obviously you have those four seasons, but growing up in rural WA you don't have the, I mean you have the seasons for sure and there's subtle changes, but it's not the same as having snow on the ground.
01:09:40
Speaker
you know, through winter and then seeing all the trees regain their leaves in the spring and the birds come back and the new growth, the beauty of summer and the colours of autumn. So i'm I really i enjoying being in a place where you have such drastic contrasts in the seasons.
01:09:59
Speaker
I find that really beautiful. And every time like a season dies, During a certain season, I'm always like simultaneously like excited for the next season to come and the the changes that will happen not only in the exterior, like in the environment, the landscape, but also like the sports that will come with the next season.
01:10:20
Speaker
at At the same time, like excited for that to happen. But like when it does happen, I'm always like a little bit nostalgic for the season that's just passed. So oh it's an interesting kind of internal rollercoaster there.
01:10:32
Speaker
But in terms of climate change and the differences that I've seen over time here, i mean, absolutely. Like I first came to Chamonix on a climbing trip in 2019. And nineteen and lay it looking back at photos from then, um and my climbing partner, Tom, who came to visit last year, um and he hadn't been back since 2019, he really noticed the change the sort of like level of the glaciers and just the I suppose like you see it a lot um particularly in the summer like climbing in the high mountains the the danger that that brings in terms of um rock fall yeah um conditions up high it
01:11:14
Speaker
Lately, the last couple of summers, um I've been super hesitant to do much climbing um in the High Mountains August because it's it's just, like, pretty dangerous and something that I'm, yeah, I'm pretty happy to to be living and not – and not kind of like taking a gamble on that. So, yeah, um from that perspective, like you you definitely see it. And the winter snow packs certainly is something that I'm probably like less familiar with because I've only been here for, yeah, I ah usually come, like have been here at the end of the winters, so not seeing particularly like, but what I've like some trends over the last few winters is like,
01:11:58
Speaker
January tens has tended to be quite dry and then like a lot of snowfall coming later in the winter. um Last season it was like not much down low but i like kind of a record I think almost snow back up in the high mountains but precipitation down low.
01:12:14
Speaker
So yeah, you're just seeing a lot of changes. And I think like back in the day, like Chamonix was like one of the best places to come. Chamonix Valley and Surround is like best places to come to ice climbing.
01:12:25
Speaker
But nowadays you just can't rely on the conditions because it's way too warm. um Yes, you're certainly seeing changes, like pretty drastic changes in all of those areas. And Yeah, it just certainly makes you realise, especially being somewhere like here where there's so many people, so much tourism, so much infrastructure and you're seeing the impact of that on on the environment firsthand.
01:12:48
Speaker
I haven't thought of it like that. Yeah. The added safety risk of just that inconsistency. Yeah. I think I'm with you. It's, you know, it's like I could go climbing and it's extremely dangerous or I could go do something else with my time. And yeah.
01:13:00
Speaker
Just go running down low. Yeah. I was going say, yeah, you're spoiled for choice. So it's not like there's, there's no other options on the table. And what is coming up for you next, Millie? Your brother's getting married soon. Does that mean a trip back trip homes on the cards? Yeah, it is. I was potentially going to be coming home in March, but unfortunately, well, not unfortunately, for another wedding. But then my brother decided to get married and that's number one priority, obviously.
01:13:27
Speaker
um So I'll be coming home in October for that, which was is great. Looking forward to a trip home, spending like quite a bit of time back in Australia. um And then in terms of other things, like this season, have a few, hopefully touch wood, given hopefully the sneeze are good and a few things on the cards. Number one being the PTL in and August again with my brother.
01:13:52
Speaker
So, yeah this time. So good. Hoping to correct a few mistakes that we made and um just go out for another epic four five days in the hills. So good. I'm looking forward to it a lot, but I'm also a bit now more scared than I was last year because I know exactly what is going to happen terms of like the lack of sleep and how hard it's going to be in that sense. Like before I went in a bit naive, had never done anything that long before, but now knowing exactly what's going to happen, it's like, oof. Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for a bit of naivety when it comes to big audacious goals. so It's always fun doing something for the first time. Totally. I kind of, it's one of those things, it's not until you do it that you wish that you enjoyed it more the first time because you did just have no expectations and it's like doing a...
01:14:42
Speaker
a race or an event for the first time, you you just, to finish is your goal. And then if you go back another year, you've always got that previous time in your mind. And even though it's not a race, you kind of can't help but try and do better. yeah And the course changes. So that's exciting.
01:14:59
Speaker
That'll keep you coming back because you know that you'll just see even more amazing places that you probably have never set foot Yeah, exactly. There's still so much to explore out there. and the so each year, um for for the last like four or five years, the race has been won by these two Swiss brothers, Absolute Machines. And this year they're not racing the race, but they're helping to create the course for which would be awesome. which up These mountains like so incredibly well, they live really close and they just, this is their, this is their playground. They've, you know, grown up in these mountains since they were children.
01:15:34
Speaker
And so they're creating the course this year, which will be super fun. Hopefully. That's amazing. What a legacy. There comes a time when you probably don't want to do it anymore, but it'd be hard to step away and leave something that's been such a big part of your life behind. But now knowing that they're behind it yeah and that title's up for grabs, anything's possible. Anything is possible.
01:15:53
Speaker
I'm guessing by the time, because you start before UTMB, did you finish and have a bit of time to recuperate before heading back to the finish line to cheer everyone else on who was doing UTMB?
01:16:04
Speaker
So we start on the Monday and then we finished on Friday night. I think. And then so, yeah, UTMB would start that night.
01:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Because we were coming through Le Contamines as just before, like hours before the UTMB runners were set to come through Le Contamines, which is kind of like the first big town where people are going crazy, yeah second town where people going crazy. And I remember running through, we were just like at the end of our race, you know, knees taped.
01:16:33
Speaker
Yeah. It's lying everywhere. And everyone was looking at us like, who are these people? Because PTL is like its own little thing on the side. like yeah Yeah. It's like this little race that no one cares about. Yeah, we were getting such funny looks.
01:16:47
Speaker
and I'm just, yeah, I don't know. It was good to be kind of like this unknown entity, like running down the UTMB course, like getting strange looks from people. and so Yeah, because everyone's like, what are you doing here? Like you're looking very tired with someone who hasn't even started running. Yeah, so we finish in time to see like people coming through the UTMB.
01:17:13
Speaker
I mean, we finish at like 2 a.m. on Saturday morning, like Friday night. So I definitely didn't make it to the finish line to see any of the people coming in, like, the in the, like, podium places for UTMB. That was a bit. The next day, um we sort of the the ceremony for the PTL is at the same time as when the last UTMB...
01:17:36
Speaker
issues come through. So definitely got to see a lot of those people, which is awesome. Because I imagine as well, there'd be a lot of people from home heading across that you want to kind of catch up with. But meanwhile, yeah, you've just been awake for five days and want to sleep. And they're probably, if they've done UTMB, they're probably the same. But I'm sure that hopefully after all the events, you can have some time to recuperate together and catch up and get your fix of Australian accents and whatnot. Yeah, well, it's tricky, yeah, because a lot of people just come to to Sham for that week.
01:18:05
Speaker
before the race in which case we were like not there and we were somewhere ah on on the mission definitely had a couple of days after to catch up with like lots of lots of mates who were running other races which is nice but i was definitely apologized to those people because i was on another planet for quite a while actually like couple of weeks took like maybe 10 days for my brain it was mostly my brain my body was okay but like The brain fatigue just coming down like off a race like that with that little sleep.
01:18:37
Speaker
I was, yeah, was like, whoa, is my brain ever going to get back to normal? But it did. That's incredible. It's one of those things that no one probably talks about and you don't really expect until you're experiencing it. Yeah.
01:18:50
Speaker
Yeah, you just got to kind of wait and hopefully, yeah, things turn normal, which they are which they did. But 10 days is a long time to kind of be in that altered state. Yeah, indeed. Just like fuzzy brain.
01:19:00
Speaker
Can't think. I was prepared for it in the sense that I knew that the the recovery was going to be like a roller coaster and a long process. It's lovely to catch up and I'm excited to see what else you get up to over there in the winter months.
01:19:14
Speaker
And yeah, because you're over in New Zealand recently and there's probably something coming out about that at some point in the future. Yeah, there's a film coming out, I think hopefully in June. And good luck for PTL. I'd never heard of it before I saw you doing it. And I like the idea of doing long things, but I think you throw in the Alps and it just takes it to a whole other level. Very excited to watch you and Charlie on your journey again and good luck for trying to improve on last year's and and fix those mistakes. But I'm sure that you'll have an equally amazing time and go to some amazing places that you never even knew existed, both physically and mentally.
01:19:52
Speaker
Indeed. Thanks so much for the chat here. was great to catch you up.
01:19:58
Speaker
And that's the finish line of our fifth trial chat. Thank you for joining us for this multidisciplinary and action-packed chat with the woman of many talents and grand plans, Millie Young. If you'd like to hear more from Millie's adventures in the Alps, you can follow her on Instagram at mill underscore young or watch The Muddiest Known Time on Adventure Plus.
01:20:16
Speaker
If you'd like to learn more about what we do here at For Wild Places, you can stay in touch by subscribing to this podcast or our weekly newsletter. If you consider yourself a Wild Places protector, then maybe you'd like to become a member.
01:20:27
Speaker
For a monthly or annual fee, you can support the ongoing work of For Wild Places and help us bring new initiatives to life. For more information and to subscribe or become a member, head to forwildplaces.com or find us on socials at For Wild Places.
01:20:40
Speaker
Thank you again for joining us. we are absolutely stoked to have you here. And thank you so much to Millie for your time and to Lara Hamilton for our theme music. Until next time, folks, happy trails.
01:20:51
Speaker
And as always, thank you for taking the time for Wild Places.