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8. Negotiating the training, travel, racing and injury equation with Simone Brick
55 Plays19 days ago
Despite being only in her early thirties, Simone Brick is a veteran of the Victorian trail and ultra-running scene. There isn't an event that Simone hasn't participated in, podiumed at or volunteered with. Simone's love of trail running runs deep and has shaped the person she is today.
We first caught up with Simone in November 2022, when she was fresh off the back of a busy European summer of racing, travelling and a bout of COVID. We then followed up with Simone in April this year to hear how her injury-plagued days are behind her (touch wood) and what she has learned about negotiating the constant balance of training, racing, travelling, and, most importantly, enjoying time in nature.
You can follow Simone's adventures on and off the trail on Instagram or find out more about her coaching at Evolve Run Club. You can also catch Simone on the Peak Pursuits Podcast, your go-to podcast for all things trail running in Australia.
To hear more from For Wild Places, subscribe to our newsletter or become a member.
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Transcript
Introduction with Simone Brick
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to the For Wild Places podcast. This is a podcast that shares the stories of inspiring people and their adventures in running, adventure, and advocacy. I'm your host, Hilary, and today we are excited to welcome Melbourne's own trail, ultra, and sky runner extraordinaire, Simone Brick, to the podcast. It's been a little while between episodes as our hardworking volunteer podcast team have been tied up with other projects and life events.
00:00:44
Speaker
But now the hiatus is over and we are excited to be back in your ears and back into a regular programming schedule. So from now on, each week, we'll be popping into your podcast feed to share conversations with athletes, leaders, and activists to talk about past or future adventures, their favorite wild places, and the connection between adventure and activism.
Acknowledgement of First Nations
00:01:04
Speaker
But before we get into today's chat with Simone, I would like to acknowledge the First Nations people who have been custodians of land, waters and culture for tens of thousands of years.
00:01:13
Speaker
We understand the wild places that we love to explore on this continent have been cared for by First Nations people for millennia. We seek to learn from the world's oldest living culture so we too can care for country, as the Indigenous people of this continent have done since time immemorial.
00:01:28
Speaker
This podcast was recorded and edited on Gadigal Country in so-called Australia, where where sovereignty was never ceded. This always was, and always will be, Aboriginal land.
Simone's Return to Running
00:01:38
Speaker
Despite still being in her early 30s, Simone Brick feels like a veteran amongst Victoria's trail running scene. From her early days with the Crosby crew to now competing in the World Sky Running Champs, there isn't a trail or ultra race in Victoria Simone hasn't participated in, podiumed or volunteered at.
00:01:55
Speaker
Running has woven its way into every part of Simone's life, and today's conversation makes it clear just how deeply rooted her love of this sport is. We first caught up with Simone in November 2022 as she shared how she discovered running and the incredible impact the community and commitment of the sport has had on her life.
00:02:13
Speaker
We then checked back in with Simone in April this year to hear more of the lessons she has learnt along the way and how a bad day can become a good day when it's outspent in nature. Without any further ado, let's get into our conversation with Simone Brick.
00:02:29
Speaker
Welcome everybody to For Wild Places Trail Chat. My name's Will, I'm from For Wild Places and I'm based in Port Kembla, just south of Sydney. For Wild Places is a group of activist runners.
00:02:42
Speaker
We organize trail running events in wild places that need protection. ah But the first thing I want to do is just acknowledge traditional owners of this land and pay a respects to elders past, present and emerging. But to get to today, we are stoked to have two-time Australian mountain running champion, nurse, biomed student, coach, Salomon athlete, and as I coined on Facebook, just all-round inspirational human being, Simone Brick.
00:03:08
Speaker
Welcome, Simone. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. a I love what you guys do and I've been following on the whole time with ah everyone's awesome work. So it's been, um it's really cool to be on. Oh, that's awesome. ah Now, Simone, I noticed on Strava yesterday, you commented that you had an excellent run and it's the best you've felt for, I think, months. So this is good timing. How are you and and and what are you up to?
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'm actually slowly getting stoked on running again after a break. So yeah, I think yesterday made me realize how good running is and how much I've missed just that smooth, effortless feeling because yeah, I lost that for a little while.
00:03:46
Speaker
It's pretty hard when you're fatigued and everything gets... chaotic with with travel. So where I am at the moment is back on my first week of training after a month off. And when I say a month off, it's more a month of just not being on a training plan. So I still have been running, but just running when I want to, when I feel like it and absolutely loving jumping in sessions and jumping straight out when I don't feel good anymore rather than finishing them off. So it's a great way to rock up to the track and just do half reps or just go, yeah, this is fun. And as soon as it's not fun, disappear.
00:04:18
Speaker
But yeah, no, I'm back on the training plan and I always know I'm ready to go when I sit down with coach, we write the plan and I am that excited to just be back in routine. And yesterday, yeah, was my first day of like my normal Wednesdays. It's like my 20K run, gym, swim, all in the day and the massage and you just feel like all is right with the world because it's all just routine again. Yeah, there's nothing like that feeling. I think you mentioned podcast going, that feeling when you're just out. Like there are some runs that you want to end, but it's lovely when you just don't want it to end.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, that was yesterday to the T. I could have kept going for hours, but I'm not up to that stage again yet. Awesome. So we should come back to actually rest and recovery because a few folks had some questions on that. But man, you've had a pretty intense couple of months, whether it's the the world championships in Thailand or several championships throughout the Northern Hemisphere.
00:05:10
Speaker
ah we could probably talk forever on each particular one, but give us an idea of what has your last few months been. Take us through what you've been up to. Yeah, easy.
International Racing Experience
00:05:18
Speaker
So um I went away near the end of July, um towards the end of July,
00:05:23
Speaker
I left Oz and from there, I think in order of countries I visited to race in, I went Norway, Switzerland, Colorado, Arizona.
00:05:34
Speaker
then Tenerife, Madeira, Thailand. So i had I had a big trip and mostly it was to race, like my main goal this year was to race Golden Trail Series.
00:05:46
Speaker
And so that involved, I raced four out of the six normal season, I suppose you could call it like the season races. And then the final was a five-day stage race in Madeira that was at the end of October.
00:05:59
Speaker
And for better or worse, I tacked on world champs a week later on the way home in Thailand. Yeah, I'm not sure I would ever repeat that in a hurry.
00:06:10
Speaker
But yeah, essentially four races overall that were anywhere from 21k to the longest was Siezanal at 31. And then the stage race for the final of Golden Trail was one of the most epic weeks of my life, being a five-day stage race covering...
00:06:28
Speaker
115 kilometers with 7,300 up and down over five days through Madeira, which is wild and has a lot of stairs. That's all I remember.
00:06:39
Speaker
But no, I remember most of it. But yeah, essentially that was my main goal for the entire year when everything was building up towards and... um Yeah, nothing went to plan, but it was good.
00:06:50
Speaker
You learn more when it doesn't go to plan, so that's okay. Wow, that's epic. And then you had to pull up after that and head to Thailand and represent Australia at the World Championships. Yeah, because we had our national championships back in June, I think, not long before I left. Thankfully, it wasn't a great start to the overall international season for me because between our national champs and heading overseas, I got COVID-19.
00:07:12
Speaker
Real bad. See, I got COVID three weeks to the day before my first race overseas. So three weeks before Norway and four weeks before Ciesanale. And i was I was not well for for those two, unfortunately, which is kind of why starting off a trip like that was a bit rough. But thankfully, got national champs in before that. And it meant that because I won national champs, which I think you got my stat off my website that I haven't updated, but i um I'm now four-time national champ, thankfully, because I pulled it off, pulled off the double this year. So that was my first sort of goal of the year.
00:07:48
Speaker
um ticked off and that obviously that gave me an auto qual for Thailand and then it's hard it's really hard sometimes as but professional athlete or just trying to compete in a few different series because you don't get to choose the calendar and originally these world champs were actually the 2021 world champs that were meant to be November last year COVID again affected that then when they were originally put this year they were a week later so I had like one more week's recovery between the final and world champs, but then it got moved again.
00:08:21
Speaker
So I had a solid six days. um And in that I had to get from from Madeira in Portugal for a 30 hour trip to Thailand. And then I had a few days to try and get my body able to run.
00:08:33
Speaker
And it definitely lulled me into a false sense of security because I actually felt pretty good the day before, but that doesn't mean you can actually run hard a week after a stage race. My God. Which event were you in in Thailand? Classic Mountain. though i wasn't goingnna I would have loved to do one of the longer events.
00:08:50
Speaker
um that I think i overall I think I do a lot better at longer stuff, but I wasn't about to submit my body to that. 11Ks you can kind of with not too much up and down. I think it only had 450 up and down, which compared to what I've been doing was very short and sharp. And you can get your body through that even when it's chucking a tantrum.
00:09:10
Speaker
The alternative was like a or an 80K. And yeah, i wasn't I wasn't about to put myself in that deep of a hole. So yeah, 11K, short distance. Yeah, nice. COVID, three weeks before, that's bad. Like timeline-wise, well, from my understanding, you really should just be, like your body probably just needs to be resting at that point. yeah How the heck did you get through those races? Yeah.
00:09:33
Speaker
um Yeah, it was interesting. That was just, and when I look back, even I'm just like, whoa, that was crazy because I got out of quarantine for COVID. Like they only had a seven day quarantine at that point. And so I think I got out of quarantine maybe five days or so before I flew overseas.
00:09:51
Speaker
But I do have a very distinct memory of saying goodbye to um people at the airport, walking through the doors and then just sitting there and bawling my eyes out because I felt that sick. And it's not good to get on a plane away from home knowing you're not going to be back for four months feeling absolutely shocking.
00:10:08
Speaker
So yeah I wasn't healthy. And then I actually got through the travel, got to Norway, and knew I wasn't great when I slept for 18 hours straight as soon as I arrived.
00:10:20
Speaker
So it was it was a whirlwind, but I think I actually, I don't regret it because like I learned a lot about how to sort of persevere through things because I also, I have ah like a six minute video and because I was um logging everything on video. Like I was taking a lot of video to document my journey and yeah,
00:10:39
Speaker
I have a six minute video of me the first time I checked the course, which was one week before the race in Norway, which has to be one of my favorite countries in the world. It was so beautiful, but I'm stopped halfway up the climb, which was a very long and steep climb.
00:10:54
Speaker
And again, just sitting in front of the camera going, I can't, Run. I don't know how I'm going to race next week because at the moment I was back at the stage where like walking, I felt okay, like flat jogs. It was okay. Downhill, you can usually survive. But as soon as I started running uphill, my heart rate spiked that high that I was like, I'm like, this is not good.
00:11:15
Speaker
So that was one week out. And then, yeah, essentially the morning of the race, when you're that committed to something, like ah everything was paid for, everything was booked in, everything was ready to go. And I'm like, well, and I needed three results.
00:11:27
Speaker
um Well, i thought I needed three results to actually qualify for the final. Turns out I didn't. But you rock up to the start line, kind of I wasn't thinking about the fact that I'd been sick. Like if you're thinking about that, you've kind of lost before you started in a way.
00:11:40
Speaker
So it was a case of, Keep in mind, like maybe during the race, because I did get, so this race started on a gravel road that was at 10%. Like you just, you started up a 10% climb and it was gravel for 3K. And the way they race in Europe, it's a sprint from the start. Like it is just all out.
00:11:59
Speaker
And when it's an all out sprint on like a gravel uphill, I got 400 meters in. i was wearing my chest strap and looked down and my heart rate was 192. And so I knew at that point, I'm like, okay, we really need to settle back here.
00:12:14
Speaker
Like I'm not going to say it was 26 Ks and I was 400 meters in. um So I did. I'd like, I knew then it was like, okay, today's not the day to like go balls to the wall and really go for it.
00:12:27
Speaker
But I did better than I really thought. I came 26 that day. So I was overall like top 30 earned points and, Looking back, that course probably would have suited me best out of all the ah all the courses. So I really wish I could have given it a proper crack because a few weeks before that, I felt on top of the world.
00:12:45
Speaker
But at the end of the day, I actually gained confidence from the fact that I didn't do too horribly. And I was actually really having fun on the downhill. There's a very funny video of me slipping and sliding all over the place because the terrain in Norway And their idea of a trail is like there's a marker somewhere up ahead, run straight towards it. There's no path, no nothing, just run.
00:13:07
Speaker
And you're running on like we were running on sharp rocks, like four or 5K. And so it's the sort of stuff where in mid-run I'm just laughing because of the ridiculousness of it. We're in fog.
00:13:19
Speaker
It's freezing and it everything is wet and muddy. You can't help but fall over all the time. And it's fun. Like that that to me is like type two fun.
00:13:29
Speaker
um So, yeah, at the end of the day, I actually just took confidence from the fact that I got through the race. It wasn't a complete disaster. And look, I don't know. I was...
00:13:40
Speaker
Still recovering, obviously, but at the same time, like i'm my body didn't do too bad. and And I had actually to race again a week later because there was only six, seven days between my first two races.
00:13:52
Speaker
So I didn't give my body much of a chance to recover properly. But at the same time, I was doing everything I could. And that's that's all you can do at the end of the day. So Sies and I one week later was...
00:14:04
Speaker
Not a good, like that went worse than Strunder by a long shot, but that's just that you the dice you throw when you're trying to travel, recover and recover from COVID at the same time. Have you had any kind of lingering effects? i mean, you're obviously after your update about yesterday, you're obviously feeling good, but yeah, no kind of long COVID stuff.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah. um No, not as far as I can tell. I've always had like a reasonably good immune system and like I have no idea how this thing affects different people in different ways, but I was definitely like my whole family got it at a similar time. I gave it to the rest of them.
00:14:38
Speaker
Sorry. But yeah. I was one of the people that like I got real, real sick for like six or seven days, couldn't get out of bed, high fever sort of thing. But it almost felt like because I got that sick, my body maybe got rid of it pretty like efficiently um overall.
00:14:54
Speaker
So it didn't feel like, like even once I got to Siezanal, obviously like yeah I'm a month into not much running other than the race. And so you kind of don't feel very fit.
00:15:05
Speaker
But at the same time, I was... could have been a lot worse. It could have been a lot, lot worse. And I was able to pick up training after Ciesanar where I had a five-week break between races. um I needed that break to get some training back under my legs, but that actually – I went straight to altitude and I didn't feel bad at all by that point a month later. – I think i got I got lucky in a way, but I was taking all of the immune medicines and um all that sort of stuff. And I was, thankfully, at that point in time, as much as travel's exhausting, around the travel, I was getting a lot of sleep.
00:15:40
Speaker
So you do what you can. And I got, like, at the end of the day, I reckon I just got lucky. Hey, just ah just to step back, I'm personally still relatively new to running and getting my head around all these different events. Can can you just explain or take us through what a staged event is and, yeah, basically what you were doing day-to-day throughout the course of that event? So the stage race, the
Simone's Running Journey
00:16:01
Speaker
final? but Yeah, the the final in Madeira. Okay, so the final in Madeira was the final for the Golden Trail World Series, which had been going since Sagama in May.
00:16:10
Speaker
And so, yeah, the five-day stage race, at was wild we were all staying in the same big resort hotel that was very lovely on the island of madeira and so day to day every day we would bus to a different start line different spot for the run and which meant we get when we got different weather every day but essentially it was 9 a.m 9 a.m most days gosh you're testing my memory but um yeah we all and like everyone would get up and super early, 6am, have breakfast. We get bused to the start line and then the start would go off sort of 9am. And most of the days, like day one, two, four and five were all longer. So anywhere from three hours to three and a half hours, I think was my longest day out.
00:16:56
Speaker
And then, so every day was the same routine, wake up, breakfast, run. Everyone would get straight back to the hotel as soon as we could. Thankfully, I had mum and dad there, so I didn't have to catch the bus back. They drove me back every day. So yeah,
00:17:08
Speaker
baby advantage, got a little advantage going on there. But the um thankfully we had buffet. We had like 24-hour buffet access. And because between events in a stage race, like I think Caitlin was the one that said it was an eating competition in between the actual races because trying to keep up with how much you're burning through while also racing and like it's hard enough to eat properly after a hard race,
00:17:35
Speaker
It amazed me how hard people were going from day one. I'm like, I was scared. I was genuinely scared day one going, we got five days of this to go and I don't know how i'm going to survive. And so if anything, I took day one a bit too conservative, but it was...
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, get back, eat as much as you could, recover in whatever way you could. um i was getting mum and dad to drop bags of ice to the hotel, so I was having ice baths every afternoon and then sleep and do it all over again, race another.
00:18:03
Speaker
There were like 20, whoa, shh. 25k to 30k I think each day mostly maybe 2,000 up and down and then the day three though was a short day and we raced in the afternoon which was brutal actually because we'd gone from racing in the morning day one morning day two to about 5 p.m on day three we had a seven kilometer so super short and sharp and everyone was very tired but The thing I loved, and then not much recovery to get to day four.
00:18:37
Speaker
So every day kind of ran into itself. But I think the thing I loved about it is that there was this real sense of camaraderie between everyone. Because as much as you were hurting, like I have, I remember sitting in my bed at the end of day two with that ache in your legs that you get after a really hard race.
00:18:55
Speaker
That's just like, they just are throbbing completely. And I was sitting there with a loaf of bread, trying to get the entire loaf of bread down, knowing that I needed to eat, but I couldn't eat anything else and questioning everything about my life in that moment. um So I was like, what are you doing here?
00:19:11
Speaker
But then I just like rock up to dinner that night and speak to all the other athletes and everyone's in the same boat. Everyone's like, what are we doing? This hurts. Yeah. Everyone was like by day three, I was so sick of food. I'd never thought I'd be that sick of eating, but you were just forcing down the carbs to try and get more energy for the next day, not wanting to bonk.
00:19:32
Speaker
And yeah, we all got there. Start line on day five was a lot of fun just because everyone's like, hey, we're here. Well, everyone that made it to that point, there was obviously a few people that don't quite make it through the whole thing for injury or illness or fatigue or whatever.
00:19:46
Speaker
But um it was... I don't even know how to describe how chaotic it was, but at the same time, it's one of those things that you get to the end of it going, holy moly, I had no idea at the start how I was going to do that and I did it and that's pretty damn cool. say Amazing. Yeah, i was going to ask about the food. You've just said you knocked off a loaf of bread, but um I mean something like that you would need real food, like you know not just having gels and bars and and and whatnot. So but was the food all there for you or like what did you have to take with you? So during the runs, we all like you do what you need. Um, so we always had one, there was one aid station per day where we could, um, have a bottle drop.
00:20:26
Speaker
So I'd run with only tailwind. So for me, it's tailwind in all my bottles and you could refill or you could just swap bottles at one aid station per day. So that was one Vegemite on the bread.
00:20:37
Speaker
I wish I could have Vegemite on the bread chain, but, uh, I'm celiac, so it was gluten-free bread, suns, vegemite, unfortunately. But um then the rest of the day, we were staying at a resort called Enotel Lido. And yeah, essentially you rock back up and it was a full buffet lunch and dinner. um So there was options and for everyone.
00:20:58
Speaker
Now, i'm this is the interesting part of me. i am I'm celiac, so obviously the gluten-free for me is very, very important, especially mid-race. So I was buying some of my own just because I liked my own bread more than the one they had on offer.
00:21:12
Speaker
But um there was always rice. There was always hot chips. There was roast potatoes. There was always those sorts of things. I am vegan like 99% of my life, but when traveling and when other people are cooking for you, that gets...
00:21:25
Speaker
near impossible at times if you actually want to if I actually wanted to stay healthy because the only protein options there were beans and I avoid like I have tofu and protein shakes and stuff around races but I'll avoid beans so I was topping up with a little bit of fish with the rest of my essentially all I ate for five days was rice bread gluten-free cake and some fruit and a little bit fish um because that's all i could that's pretty much all I could manage. I was avoiding vegetables. I was avoiding too much fiber.
00:22:00
Speaker
Essentially, it looked like a normal carb load day for me, which is normally one day, but six days in a row by the time you count the first day beforehand. Yeah. It wasn't fun. Like to be ah honest, people would be, that one of the things that someone said to me was like, oh, that's so cool. You can eat as much as you want and whatever you want and you need it. And I'm like, yeah, that's all well and good.
00:22:20
Speaker
But the amount you need and how sick you get of food, that was one of the hardest parts by the end of it, was trying to force down and enough of the exact same bland food day after day after day, which gets even harder when you're walking into a like all-you-can-eat buffet of that much. exotic food and you're going straight for the plain rice, plain potatoes, plain fish. Done.
00:22:42
Speaker
Like it was really sad because there was it was all these different desserts. They actually did really well with the vegan gluten-free desserts and stuff and I was like, I can't touch.
00:22:53
Speaker
yeah Were you able to smash like an awesome different meal afterwards? Yeah, like I went i definitely went back for the the curries and the the vegan. They had a lot of like lentil stews and all those sorts of things that I absolutely loved at the end.
00:23:07
Speaker
For me, breakfast every day, I actually didn't go to the buffet purely because it was too tempting to eat stuff that I would never normally eat before a race. So I stayed in my hotel room and I had my six slices of bread with peanut butter I'd bought and jam and bananas that I'd all bought for myself, which was another sad moment going, there's a buffet breakfast upstairs and they had the bacon, like, which I wouldn't touch obviously, but they had like, imagine your full, like there was half avocados with smoked salmon and stuff that everyone was, that you could have if you wanted. But now all the runners, it was just the bread, the cereals and all that sort of stuff. so it was pretty boring, but
00:23:44
Speaker
it's it's what you got to do at the end of the day it's um part of everything like the celebratory meals are always the fun ones you're right like it's the afterwards where we all will kind of be like it doesn't matter much anymore you can have what you want but before races before events like to me it's it's like that's that's the icing on the cake for the training and if you want to get the most out of training then you need to make sure that what you're eating before during And it's for stage race after each run really matters for the next day and for how you perform. So everything becomes very clinical at that point. What do I need? What does my dietician set out for me?
00:24:17
Speaker
um And follow that. And no matter what that costs in terms of mental anguish of what you want, um and then afterwards you get the celebratory food.
00:24:33
Speaker
just wanted ask, you've had a yeah a pretty amazing journey actually even getting into running. was just hoping you could talk to us a little bit about yeah why you became a runner and the journey you went through to to get there because it's pretty epic. Yeah, by complete accident.
00:24:48
Speaker
um So, growing up, like, I hated running with a passion. I kind of, I'll tell the the story of I ran one race in my entire life before I was 18. And that was one cross-country race when I was maybe seven or eight in primary school.
00:25:04
Speaker
And I faked a rolled ankle one kilometer in so that I got stretched off the course. Yeah. And he didn't have to do it anymore because that was about the point where it got hard. I think I was in last position and I'm very competitive, but at that point it was competitive in team sports and goodness, anything I could compete in. I'm the second youngest of seven kids.
00:25:24
Speaker
So Anything I could compete in, I could was going to compete in. And that one cross-country race just destroyed running for me because I found myself in last. And so next thing I know, I was on the ground breaking her old ankle and getting stretched off.
00:25:38
Speaker
And I never ran again until, well, I played basketball and soccer and I was very active. But I, yeah, I was the one that was, I was the big back marker in soccer that would sit at the back and not run much. And yeah, it was definitely not known for my endurance capabilities.
00:25:56
Speaker
um So that was right up until I pretty much gave up a lot of my sport when I was maybe 16, 17. And then... and then Essentially, life was a life was not great at that point in time. I had like developed depression probably when I was about 14, year eight. I just remembered like nothing was nothing was great at that point or it didn't feel it.
00:26:19
Speaker
And then um leaving school, school was my structure and school was the thing that kept me afloat. And then leaving school... was like the worst thing because I also, i not only did I leave school, I didn't go straight to uni because I was kind of, I didn't know what I wanted to do too much. And so ah took a gap year and I had no idea what I was doing in life as every 18-year-old doesn't have a clue really.
00:26:41
Speaker
um But I was also, I I know now why. ah So i have PCOS, which um essentially at that point we had no idea, but it meant that from the time I was like 10, 11, 12, like I was very large um for my age. And so by the time I was 18,
00:27:01
Speaker
I was knocking on the door of 100 kilos and not healthy, very, very asthmatic. um And essentially my doctors and everyone was telling me that I needed to lose weight because was like genuinely struggling to get up a flight of stairs. Like I was not a healthy human being at that point in time.
00:27:19
Speaker
But more of it probably was mental than physical in um a lot of ways because i I had no idea what I was doing. i was floating and had no real direction or purpose. But I found my...
00:27:31
Speaker
direction and purpose in the wrong places to begin with so uh very quickly went from i'm gonna try and get fit and get healthy in my gap year to i am very unwell with an eating disorder and so like i it's i lost a lot of weight and i but i lost it very very quickly um by using my scientific method of the less i eat the more i lose And the trap like that, even looking back now, the way that taught me what the value of nutrition is, is very like it's what it's um good now to like look back on and it still just reminds me all the time what the human brain and body can go through, but also the importance of nutrition for it. Because once you're malnourished, your brain genuinely doesn't function very well at all. Nothing logical makes sense anymore.
00:28:22
Speaker
And, know, It was a pretty wild time because even I look back and I know with the thoughts I was having and the beliefs I was having that like I couldn't touch food because I was going to absorb the calories. like There's sorts of things that you start thinking when you're not nourishing your body enough is like it's bordering on psychosis at that point.
00:28:46
Speaker
um Because logic doesn't make sense anymore. So I got very much lost in that world for a couple of years. And think the hard part is that with the sort of culture where all, or at least I was brought up in, it was kind of like to begin with for the first maybe six months of me hiding the fact that I wasn't eating, I was kind of being applauded for it because all of a sudden I was looking healthier and getting smaller. And so i was like, okay, we're on the right track.
00:29:14
Speaker
But a few more months down the track and I was in hospital and all of a sudden being told I needed to gain weight again. So it was a very confusing time for an 18-year-old mind that had no idea what they were doing but also went from being told one thing to then all of a sudden being like, wait, no we didn't mean that well.
00:29:31
Speaker
um So I think the quote was that, oh, we told you to lose weight but now it's going too well. um And I was like, well, that was always going to happen based on sort of my history and the way my brain works So yeah, that was when I was 18 to 19.
00:29:47
Speaker
um And so I found myself in an intensive treatment program for anorexia from the time I was 19 to pretty much 20, 21. twenty twenty one But as with a lot of the case with eating disorders and anything body image related, there's a big component where it's a symptom of a deeper problem.
00:30:07
Speaker
And so even when I did get back to physically healthy, ah mentally I still wasn't in a great spot at all um and i no longer had i'd learned a lot ah so much i was very very very lucky for where i live i live right near this treatment program that is one of the best in the country and get got into it with only i think a four month right wait rather than sometimes people wait over a year um So I was lucky on that front, but I know long because I learned so well how to recover and look after my body physically, I no longer had the eating disorder to hide behind.
00:30:44
Speaker
And my mental health just actually got worse, not better. I still actually in some ways count myself as half lucky for the fact that I was so bad so quickly because it meant that I didn't have much periods of time where other than when I was much younger at the 14 to 18 year old age,
00:31:02
Speaker
where I was just kind of floating, where you're functional but not thriving in any way. i kind of went from... non-functional to even more non-functional very quickly.
00:31:13
Speaker
um So i think all of my ability to look after myself, all of my ability to hide anything that was wrong disappeared very quickly and it forced me to be very open and upfront with the people around me.
00:31:26
Speaker
And at that point in time it felt like I had my family and a couple of very close friends that stuck by, but I can understand that I was a very hard person to stick by at that point in time um because I ended up spending the next time 18 months to two years in and out of different psychiat psychiatric hospitals, um staying anywhere from two weeks to eight weeks at a time.
00:31:48
Speaker
And that wasn't getting any better for a long time. And I went through that many medications and psychiatrists and different treatment modalities and that I wouldn't wish on anyone at all.
00:32:03
Speaker
yeah, And in the way that I suppose you learn to be through, you've got no, well, you've got a choice, but at the same time, it's, ah I wouldn't be who I am today or have discovered anything that I've discovered today if I hadn't been through it. So I'm grateful for some of it, but it ended, well, didn't end.
00:32:24
Speaker
I slowly got better thanks to ah electroconvulsive therapy, which I'm not sure many people will have heard of necessarily other than if you've seen one flew over the cuckoo's nest where they have the electrodes on the other side of the head.
00:32:37
Speaker
It's a very old treatment method, but it's still used um much more ah humanely now because you get put to sleep um to actually have the treatment. But essentially they just induce seizures in the brain. And the thing I absolutely love about it is that they have no idea how it works.
00:32:53
Speaker
They just know that it does work. So that's another daunting thing to being sitting in front of a psychiatrist being told, so we're going to give you this treatment. We don't know how it's going to fix you, but it's going to fix you. um Or we hope it is.
00:33:05
Speaker
So that was a leap of faith, it felt like in a way, but i I wasn't left with many choices. I think at the time that I did have the ECT, I'd already been in hospital for two months straight. um on that stint.
00:33:17
Speaker
And so there wasn't many options left for me, as I was told. But essentially, it did help. And I ended up having sort of three rounds of it over the next two years. So you go through sort of four to five weeks of it at a time.
00:33:33
Speaker
um we have it every three They induce the seizure every three days and goodness knows how it works. But I am very, very thankful that the treatment exists because I don't know where I would be now without it.
00:33:44
Speaker
But yeah, in that time, essentially, I decided that I had like something clicked in the fact that I loved sport when I was younger. um And I still at that point in time was trying to rock up and play soccer with my um friends that we were just in a local soccer team.
00:34:04
Speaker
But I really, really struggled being around people. I was not like socializing and talking to people just provoked that much anxiety that I couldn't deal. But i let the one day when I'd been in hospital for a very long time and I'd finally been allowed some leave because most of the time im wasn't allowed to leave but people come visit me.
00:34:24
Speaker
And I'd earned myself some leave and I was told I could go I think for maybe a 15-minute walk and I had to be back in 15 minutes. And next thing I know, I stepped out of the hospital after not stepping out for maybe six weeks.
00:34:35
Speaker
And I just ran like I hadn't run ever before. And I hadn't other than in um school sports and stuff. It had been a very long time, but it was kind of that moment in a way of going, I'm out of here. And I just, i don't know where I'm going or what I'm doing, but I'm just running.
00:34:52
Speaker
In typical subconscious fashion, I was totally just running towards the direction of home. But I kept running and kept running and I reckon I got an hour down the road before I kind of went, okay, we're a long way from home still and now a long way from the hospital.
00:35:07
Speaker
So... my fitness at that point in time obviously wasn't the fact that I made it an hour I'm pretty impressed with um but that was an hour of pure like must keep going kind of thing like I wasn't thinking much and I had a lot of adrenaline but lo and behold as running as all runners know at this stage it's um I got back to the hospital and I felt pretty good so it was a moment of like release in a way.
00:35:32
Speaker
And I can't say, like, I did not become a runner that day because it took a long time before I thought sort of thought of myself or did much more than little jogs from time to time. But when I did get out of hospital in 2015 after ECT, I decided I'd been through a lot and I'd done a lot of mentally hard things and I was in a good enough spot that I just wanted something to work towards and so I signed up for a marathon. Yeah.
00:35:58
Speaker
In November of 2015, I had no idea that like road marathons existed or anything like that. So it was a little baby event in Victoria called the Run for the Young.
00:36:09
Speaker
And lo and behold, it was probably like foreshadowing because it was actually mostly on a rail trail and went up and over a little mountain. Um, so my first marathon was far from flat and not on the road, but just having that marathon on the calendar, I reckon kept me out of hospital for a long time because all of a sudden I had something to train for. And it was a group sort it was a family event in the end because I wasn't allowed to be left alone for a long time. So mom and dad came on every single run with me. My dog also was my training partner.
00:36:42
Speaker
And in that year, I don't really remember seeing friends. I don't really remember socializing with anyone, but I do remember just every day, as long as I got a run in, it didn't matter how long the run was. As long as I got a run in, I was like, I'm a step closer to the marathon. And that's kind of all that mattered at that point in time to sort of start the positive cycle rather than negative cycle.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, so that's kind of the very, very long story of my first marathon. And I suppose to the end of that is that I didn't know how to pace. I didn't know how to train. I had literally no cute clue what I was doing. I think my fastest run for the week every week was my long run.
00:37:22
Speaker
um My and idea of sessions was to go to a track, run 400 metres as fast as I could until I couldn't anymore and go home. warm-up, no cool-down, nothing like that. I didn't know they existed.
00:37:33
Speaker
But yeah, I got to the day of the marathon and had never run in a group before really. I had a couple of times at smaller events. And me being me, I took off at a sprint. Like in my head, I'm like, okay, it's race day, off we go. So I ran a 10K PB, half marathon PB, all the way to the marathon.
00:37:52
Speaker
And it was a little event. I will reiterate that, but I did win on the day. So all of a sudden I had, yeah, won my first marathon. I think I ran 319 that that day And it was that little moment because all of a sudden I was on top of the dais and I looked at my time and I was like, I had no idea what times were good or bad or anything in between.
00:38:14
Speaker
But I was kind of like, hey, I actually did something kind of okay. And it that sparked in me the idea of, well, That went well and that felt good to sort of have a big goal, tick it off.
00:38:28
Speaker
And so i'd say I just signed up for another marathon a year later and repeated the cycle. And it was only the after the second marathon I picked up my coach and I suppose the rest is kind of history because he's built me from there.
00:38:39
Speaker
And he's the one that I credit with like taking me from someone that had no clue and probably would have destroyed myself very quickly with running too much and injuries and all sorts of stuff. And he taught me everything I know about running.
00:38:53
Speaker
So, yeah, that's kind of the start. That is extraordinary. I just have a million questions. Yeah. But um which I will go to if no one else has any questions. But does anyone else want to ask Simone? I'm sure everyone else is champing at the bit too. I didn't realize you'd had the same coach literally your whole from that second marathon all the way through. What an amazing, I guess, relationship. Because now you're studying biomed and you've got all these other accomplishments. At what point did that come in your, did you decide, hack hang on, I love the body, I love exercise, I want this to shape the rest of your studies and those sorts of things? Yeah. Yeah, so when I did take a gap year straight out of high school, I was actually um deferring from a double degree of nursing and paramedicine.
00:39:41
Speaker
And then in the same year, it must have been 2016, so in the same year of that second marathon, I did actually do a diploma of nursing. because the diploma was a good sort of stepping stone in a way of returning to study, but it wasn't too involved. And I could actually manage it at the time.
00:40:01
Speaker
And everyone was very understanding because I wasn't, I still wasn't perfectly well. I actually had stomach surgery in 2016 as a leftover ramifications of absolutely destroying my body.
00:40:12
Speaker
And so i I did nursing and then the diploma of nursing I discovered I didn't actually like necessarily working as a nurse. So it was when I finished the diploma of nursing, which was an 18-month diploma, that I then looked at entering uni and biomedicine. And I think in many ways I'd always been heading in that direction. I'd always been heading towards nursing, medicine, that sort of thing.
00:40:35
Speaker
But I think when when I look back at sort of the journey of going from where I was to where I am today, there's there's like that those few catalysts of things that really, really helped. Obviously, finding running and just having that physical purpose, but then also...
00:40:50
Speaker
entering back into some sort of study. I also did my personal training certificate um and I only did that on a course that was like two nights a week to begin with. So I did everything very much in small steps that sort of led to bigger steps along the way. But another thing was that when I joined my coach I also joined a big running club called the Crosby Crew. And so all of a sudden I was rocking up twice, three times a week because two sessions in the long run every week with the same people.
00:41:18
Speaker
And it was a very, very different environment to the ones I'd been in before because for the previous three years I'd kind of only socialized and with people that I'd also been in hospital with.
00:41:29
Speaker
And as amazing and lovely as those humans are, and I still love them all to this day, it's kind of you can very get very stuck because you're all stuck and it can be very like teetering on the edge of like your you you affect each other in different ways.
00:41:45
Speaker
And entering an environment where no one had a clue who I was No one cared really. Everyone was just kind of like, cool, you're coming for a run. Let's go for a run. And there was no questions asked.
00:41:57
Speaker
um At that point in time, it was very obvious, I think, to everyone around that I was struggling because I very often i was stuck in a very but bad self-harm cycle. So I very often, and they were all over me. So I'm very, very grateful to the crew that I had there that no one asked the question.
00:42:15
Speaker
um And not in a bad way because they all knew that I had people around me that were caring for me. They gave me that release and outlet where nothing was mentioned. We were just going for a run.
00:42:26
Speaker
And that happened three times a week, every week without fail. And having that routine and like um accountability and everything was a massive step. And it made me realize how important community and the people you surround yourself with is along the way.
00:42:42
Speaker
And I was lucky to join on with Tim. Tim Crosby is my coach. And so i was lucky to join on with him and because we developed such a, over time, it took a long time because ah tell you what, I was a lot to deal with at that point in time. And Tim will tell you all about that if you ever do chat to him.
00:42:58
Speaker
But he, I think one of the first things he ever said to me was, I'm coaching you as a human first and a runner second because where you go as a human is forever more important than where you go as a runner. And that really resonated with me. He was also the first person that I've been told a lot how well I was doing in running for like how long I'd been running and that sort of thing. But the first session I ever rocked up with with Tim all he told me was how horrible my form is.
00:43:23
Speaker
I think his exact quote was, well, that was ugly, but you got it done. And I was like, yes, you're my human. How do I get better? Help me out here. So those sorts of things that then having that running group kind of gave me a little bit of structure back.
00:43:37
Speaker
And it was after joining that, that I then actually took up biomedicine as well. So it It really is the little baby steps that over time, in the moment, you don't realize how important they are.
00:43:48
Speaker
But looking back, like getting a coach and and developing a relationship with the crew gave me ah such a safe spot to go to every week that was no longer my parents' job.
00:43:59
Speaker
Because I'd spent a long time as a 19, 20, 21-year-old, like, sleeping on my parents' floor, not being allowed to go anywhere without them for my own safety. And, not like, it was fine in the end because that was what I needed.
00:44:12
Speaker
But at the same time, I also then needed to break away from that and be safe in my own skin, my own space around my own people. Yeah. And I suppose you kind of in running, I found my people. So it was finding them and finding that that then gave me the confidence to go back to study and to sort of actually think of a future.
00:44:30
Speaker
But once rather than surviving day to day, because it's a very big shift in how you approach your day to day life when you go from just trying to survive to get to the next 24 hours to actually working towards something that's more than A day away.
00:44:46
Speaker
That's amazing. And have you finished studying now? I'm i'm six years down the track. I'm still doing the same degree um because life took a bit of a different turn. So, yeah, to begin with, I was studying. I never studied full time because I just couldn't handle it.
00:45:01
Speaker
ah Most I ever did was three subjects at a time because I know my own limits now and I know if I get too busy and too overwhelmed, I shut down very easily, less easily now.
00:45:12
Speaker
It's slowly getting better. But at that point in time, I just knew that I needed still my time and space. So um I'm, yeah, still studying. I've got one year left, um but I've only got two units left. so it's kind of one one subject each of the next semesters. Very doable.
00:45:29
Speaker
It's kind of a good lesson, I think, like rather than being like, oh, I'm going to do a degree, I've got to do it in three. Like, I feel like we're all trying to rush through things as opposed to just being like, let's take time and do it in sizable chunks and then actually complete it as opposed to burning out or taking on too much too soon.
00:45:46
Speaker
I've counseled a lot of people in a way through that because we are all very much like inclined to do more, do more or like just get it done. And I worked in the elite athlete program at Melbourne Uni where I attend for a long time and the amount of athletes that I got to drop their load and do it more slowly was purely because I'm like, well, I do love study, but I hate study when I don't have the time to do it properly. Like I love learning, love everything about it.
00:46:12
Speaker
But if you're just rushing and sitting exams for exam's sake and not actually taking any in the information in, like what exactly is the point? um And for me, okay, like I often only do one subject at a time because then I'm still progressing and I'm learning, but I'm allowing life to happen around that and I'm allowing myself to grow internally in different, many different directions.
00:46:33
Speaker
So it's not a unidimensional kind of thing where all you're doing at that point in time is studying and then all you're doing is running or like anything like that. So definitely taking the slow way through it.
00:46:48
Speaker
I do have a question. First of all, just want to say thank you so much for joining on this trial chat, Simone. I was absolutely stoked when we found out that it was you. I'm so excited I actually logged on yesterday. just curious how you manage your time in terms of the balancing act between running, which I can do, plus like study or work, plus making sure that you recover correctly and avoid injury, which is something that I do not do very well because I tend to get home from a run and be like, oh my gosh, I have a meeting in like five minutes.
00:47:21
Speaker
There goes rolling, there goes run and then battle with injury all year. So Just curious, do you find it easier now that you're a professional athlete and sponsored or can you give advice to people such as me who are not professional and have to fit in running around a nine to five sort of job? Yeah, for sure. And it is easier now.
00:47:42
Speaker
But for sure, like I've had the same approach back when like my first year of study when I was doing the three subjects, I was a little back of the pack nobody. Like I wasn't winning anything at that point. And I was, but I think I still actually had the same approach to my recovery and everything.
00:48:01
Speaker
um because, and I'm not sure if I learned this through my other sports or just from observation where I'm i' like, I always have a mission to learn from other people's mistakes and not need to make them myself.
00:48:12
Speaker
So the biggest thing I noticed early on was how injured a lot of runners were. um And this was as a complete outside observer. And I think I made a commitment from the very beginning that if I Like he if you can't recover, then there's no point doing the run.
00:48:29
Speaker
um And I learned that I think through my recovery from mental illness in the way that I was ah always taught to only stretch myself as in terms of trying to recover and process things and work through things with my psychologist. They're like, only stretch yourself as far as you're currently able and make sure that you prioritize the time afterwards to rest.
00:48:50
Speaker
It's crazy how parallel the two things are because it was like I would program in days or weeks of rest post a really hard psych session or something like that in order to actually absorb what was going on.
00:49:02
Speaker
And I bought that approach into running. So when I was studying full-time, I was putting in 13-hour days, some days for sure. ah But the reason I was putting in such long days was so that I could recover.
00:49:16
Speaker
because i would be waking up, doing a run, cycling to uni, going to uni, but I'd always, always have somewhere structured in there that was an hour of sitting, doing absolutely nothing, not on my phone, not doing anything and giving myself that time to recover.
00:49:32
Speaker
I also started running in a way that like say I had a 60-minute run. If all I had was 60 minutes, then I would actually take five minutes off the run to do a little bit of rehab work at the start or at stretching at the end. Like I'd take time off my runs to begin with to actually get other things done because I saw and learned and read a lot about the value of – the things that go on around running.
00:50:00
Speaker
And so I still remember at times where like I would rock up to the long run with the group, but I'd be rocking up 15 minutes before everyone else because it's actually easier to rock up early than um stay later because afterwards everyone's off to do other things and thinking about other things.
00:50:16
Speaker
So there was little things of little blocks of time I would make use of. But by and large, it was a case of the more, thankfully, I thrive on monotony because the more boring weeks are and the more similar they are, the easier it is for your body to absorb them and the more you can easily program in the recovery aspects without thinking about it.
00:50:37
Speaker
Because the more you have to think about it and the more you have to go out of your way to do something, it's the less worthwhile it is. And I actually don't prioritize any of the, like I do them now because I have the time, but all the one percenters, the things that are like going to make tiny little impacts, but take a bit of time.
00:50:56
Speaker
i never did those when I didn't have the time. I would prioritize entirely sleep, nutrition, and I would always get my bloods checked every six weeks to make sure that all of the sleep and nutrition were on track in terms of cortisol and all my, um,
00:51:12
Speaker
levels of vitamins and minerals and all that sort of thing and I knew that if sleep was on top if I was on top of sleep and I was on top of my nutrition then that's just the cornerstone of everything in terms of recovery and making sure your body can get through everything And the other thing I've invested in from long before I had enough money to invest in it because it forced me to recover um was I was booked in every week for a massage and every week to begin with when I didn't have the time to do it on myself, I'd book in one massage, one yoga class a week.
00:51:43
Speaker
And that was my tactic for making sure things got done because it was booked in and I was committed to it. And I swear the amount of injuries I have, avoided because of those little things and because of having that hour of massage that the amount of people that are like, I'll save money and I'll phone roll for myself. I'm like, but will you actually? like and if i And I tried that at times and it doesn't happen when you don't have the time and you're busy around nine to five and work and all those sorts of things.
00:52:11
Speaker
But once you build something into your routine that again has an accountability aspect Because even I've actually gotten a few people to, yeah, sure, I'm like, if you're foam roll, foam roll. And it's great and I'm all for it.
00:52:23
Speaker
Do it with a friend. Even if it's on Zoom, book in with them and make it something that you're accountable for to actually do. And the amount of times that that actually helps and gets you to do things is amazing.
00:52:35
Speaker
And then for the really time crunched, I just use tick boxes. I have my formula and it's about... Eight things that if I do them every day and one of them is drinking up water, one of them is get eight hours sleep.
00:52:50
Speaker
um There's not many things that actually go on during the day. There's maybe 10 minutes of either stretching or activation. And things that don't take much time and I earned my tick box, that for me sometimes was enough accountability.
00:53:06
Speaker
But I do know that when I got too busy, that wasn't enough. And the only thing that was enough to actually get me to do all the right things was to have someone else there that was relying on me rocking up or I was paying for it. Therefore, I was like, better make it worth it kind of thing.
00:53:22
Speaker
I think... Too many people are afraid to go that extra mile of commitment because even I heard that many times of someone going, oh, why are you spending so much money on massage when you're just like it's just a recreational thing?
00:53:35
Speaker
And I'm like, sure, it's just a recreational thing, but it's a recreational thing for me that means a lot and it means my health and it means my mental health as well as physical. It's the people I love to spend time with and it's the thing I love doing most because So, of course, I'm going to commit to it and commit to making sure I can keep doing it as opposed to spending. Like I'm like if I if if i had that money and I spent it on a like ah night out with friends or whatever, like that's good too.
00:54:04
Speaker
But at the same time, I'm like I'm. I'm making the conscious decision that this is the important thing to me and this is what I'm going to commit to. And yeah, I think i people hear that and they get a bit scared when, ah or not scared, but have that different mindset of going, oh, I'm too slow to warrant paying for that or I'm too slow to warrant having the the massage gun or whatever or I'm like and I hear that a lot of going on that's for the elite athletes and I'm like I was doing that long before anyone would have ever called me a an elite athlete long before I was ever sponsored winning races doing anything and I think it's that that helped me get there because it's that that
00:54:46
Speaker
um enabled the consistency in training. And at the end of the day, anything that enables you to be consistent is improving your health, your wellbeing and your running. So it's a win-win.
Training and Recovery Philosophy
00:54:57
Speaker
Yeah. Did that actually answer the question?
00:54:59
Speaker
Yeah. Such awesome advice. ah Definitely you prefer like monotonous in terms of routine. And hopefully that comes soon. Yeah, it's so good being in that rhythm of training. Every week is the same, is actually a really good spot to be because your body will be getting fitter and stronger, but without the, like, we all know, like the highs and lows. If your your Strava weekly graph is looking like this, then you're about... to be injured. like it's just It's just inevitable.
00:55:28
Speaker
So the monotony genuinely helps. Routine helps. And people that say that they can't deal with routine, like I question that. I'm like, have you ever been in a really good solid routine that week on week feels amazing? like Yeah. You definitely just described my Strava graph, unfortunately. Yeah.
00:55:46
Speaker
Me too as well. That's actually my dream is just having that. Me too. and Not a zero but like, you know, somewhere on the scale. where But then often people will say like, yeah, that's your dream. but i' And I'm all for make that a really low bar to begin with. 10Ks a week that you get four weeks in a row.
00:56:05
Speaker
And then like it's it doesn't need to be because I see a lot of people get stuck, right, where they're like, oh, I have this like magic number in my head that I can run 60Ks week. And that's the number, that's the only thing they'll be happy with it sitting at.
00:56:18
Speaker
I'm like, no, well, if you have like a little step thing where it just, it literally 10 Ks, 20 Ks, 30 Ks, like it's a lot better than the 60, 20, 60, 30, 60, this, like it, it doesn't work out very well for anyone.
00:56:34
Speaker
We're probably going to, well, we're going to wrap it up shortly, but I think that's a good time to actually plug that you're doing coaching as well. So if you want more of this Simone Brick insights and goodness, because I know that that's ah another person I'd like to chat to is Rachel Ayers, who I know you, um who you coach, who has been doing amazing things around Victoria in terms of running. And I saw her at Wonderland and yeah she just crossed the finish line and we're like, you won. She's like, I won.
00:57:02
Speaker
Like, no, you just like, you're first. She's like, oh, I have no idea. like Yeah. this just and and i Yeah. Rachel is a, is an epic human being that I absolutely adore coaching and showing her the trails. Cause she, I've converted her from the road to the trails as I convert. That's what love to say as well. that Yeah, exactly. Love converting people. But, um, yeah, I think I'm such a nerd when it comes to running that I've read that many books and I've done that much research for myself and it was all started just to try and better myself and my own running. But, um,
00:57:32
Speaker
I'm absolutely loving passing that on to other people in any way I can and particularly when it does come to trail running and the more technical aspects of it because I see a lot of people make a lot of mistakes and not prepare properly for races.
00:57:45
Speaker
Particularly I'm a huge huge proponent of – downhill sessions to actually condition your legs for downhills because I think everyone says that they're they're scared of them and they won't train them in case they get injured. And I'm like, well, that defeats the purpose because you're going to race down them, you should train down them.
00:58:01
Speaker
um So, yeah, there's things that I absolutely have done that are wrong, but i'll ah I'll experiment on myself first and I'm an experiment of, I'm an N of one constantly because I absolutely adore self-experimentation.
00:58:14
Speaker
And then I pass on the things that work. So I make a lot of the mistakes for people and I do a great job of that at times, so but it ah it gets it gets there in the end. Yes. Now we should finish up, unfortunately. feel like we've just got so much more to talk about, but um we might just have to have you back, Simone, another time for another chat.
00:58:33
Speaker
Hey, I'm all for that. i I live and breathe running at the moment and so I'm all for ah talking running and talking trail especially because, oh, goodness knows the trail community is pretty epic in what we do. And Ella, I've just read that convinced I don't have ankles. I'm pretty sure all my ligaments on all sides are gone.
00:58:52
Speaker
um
00:58:54
Speaker
So I don't feel pain anymore. like ah like My ankle can feel like it bloody hits the ground and I keep on going. It's great. But, um yeah, I'm i'm all for chatting all the time. Like this it's pretty much all I do. so Awesome. Well, yeah, thank you so much, Simone. And thank you for talking to us about your your history, how you came into running. Like it was just it it is truly inspiring. we'd We'd love to have you back. All the best for 2023 and let's keep in touch and do this again.
00:59:24
Speaker
Yeah, thank you very much for having me. Love what you guys do. Absolutely love it. So thank you.
00:59:32
Speaker
Now we're going to jump forward to April 2025 to hear how the racing recovery, injury and travel equation is going and what's on the cards for Simone in 2025.
00:59:45
Speaker
When we last started, Simone, it was November 2022 and you just returned from a European summer of racing, which started with you getting COVID, taking your way back to those days and finished at the Madeira stage race.
00:59:57
Speaker
And during that race, it was funny listening back because you said you were in one bed one afternoon trying to munch down a loaf of bread, questioning your life choices. Yeah. Have there been any moments in the past year or so or since we last spoke that have led you to question your life choices once again? Oh, big time.
01:00:15
Speaker
Big, big time. My goodness. That was that was a lifetime ago but now that I think about it, um that whole trip. Because, yeah, like I came back and I actually got right into some really cool training and my longest race ever was in Feb.
01:00:34
Speaker
at that point in time, sorry, was in Feb 2023. And I had probably the run of my life so far so far. It was a really good one for most of it at least. And then I spent 18 months injured.
01:00:47
Speaker
And if there's anything that makes you question life choices as an athlete, it's spending a very long time in an injury cycle. But it wasn't even an injury cycle. It was one, well, it was it it was a stress fracture and then in the recovery cycle a problem that no one could figure out with about, I think I had maybe 10 MRIs in a 12-month period with people going, yeah, not sure.
01:01:13
Speaker
um So that was kind of, yeah there was definitely a a long rough patch after that one and you're probably getting me just at the point next good patch, I think. Yeah, that's yeah's a long time to be injured. And ah what was the longest run back in February 2023? That was Old Ghost Ultra in New Zealand. It was beautiful. Except I do love New Zealand, but it has a little bit of a curse for me because I've only ever broken, I've only ever had two fractures, both of them four years apart and both of them straight after a race in New Zealand.
01:01:48
Speaker
while I was still in New Like I came home from New Zealand on crutches both times I've been there. So I'm a little scarred. How does that mode for future trips to New Zealand? Do you kind of, have you got any plans to head back?
01:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, maybe, maybe. I will have to break the curse, but ah because it's such a beautiful place. its It really is. And obviously it's not, I know I'm very well aware, it's not New Zealand that did anything because the damage is always done beforehand. It's just funny the timing. It was so much deja vu. Yeah.
01:02:19
Speaker
yeah I feel like there is a lot of, in athletes and sports people in general, a lot of, what's the word, like, you know, lucky socks or kind of superstitions around particular things. Do you have any any of those yourself apart from the curse of New Zealand?
01:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. um Around running itself, not really. I think back in the day I used to, um as in when I first got into running, I had lucky things. I had lucky headphones, lucky socks, lucky little, even charm things that put on my bag or my keys. Like I would definitely was right into that. And then as I think a lot of people do, you learn the hard way that you don't actually want your race to come down to some external thing being present at the start line or on your body because things go wrong. I think traveling as a runner and as an athlete will cure all superstitions because –
01:03:14
Speaker
You essentially just have to learn to adapt on the fly and race in any clothes, under any circumstances, with any like, yeah, anything can go wrong. um So, a lot less so now. I think, if anything, I still do return to the same routine before a race and that might – Not superstitious per se because then ah break routine every now and again out of the fact I have to. Like I do remember I'll almost always have toast and peanut butter before a race and then every now and again you can't do that.
01:03:44
Speaker
But sometimes like last year for the first time I tried cornflakes and milk before a race and had a great race. I'm like, cool, that doesn't matter either. like So I think the more I learn that nothing really matters except everything your sort of mental and physical space when you're standing on the start line, the more it it actually helps because nothing can derail you. Yeah, exactly. Otherwise, you kind of feel like you're going in feeling a bit defeated already and sacked against you and really it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
01:04:16
Speaker
I'd hate to think that the socks I was wearing would actually affect how I ran that day. Things like that, when you actually think about it, it's like that shouldn't affect me at all. And especially when, yeah, so much time and energy, yeah, hours have been put into training. It takes a lot more than a pair of socks to to pull that off. Yeah, exactly.
01:04:35
Speaker
Exactly. So, yeah, it's always there the months beforehand that help, which doesn't help when you've been injured for a while, but does help when you've had a good block of training. Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned that you're coming out of that injury mist and and clouds hanging over your head. um How are you feeling now? And did they eventually determine what that sneaky hidden injury was?
01:04:58
Speaker
Something to do with nerves, clunial neuropathy. Honestly, something wild and that I'm like, okay, great. But, and also the treatment, they go, well, we don't know.
01:05:10
Speaker
It was another one of those. So I've actually been back running well and training. Well, training well. the since about June last year. But when it comes to sort of top-end sport, you really need that time. Like yeah finally now I feel back to where I was a couple years ago because I've had six months of running where things haven't gone completely pear-shaped and I've had to do a full rebuild.
01:05:35
Speaker
Because in that 18 months, I did try and get back multiple times. I actually did have a couple of races that went okay-ish, but then I'd end up not running for another eight weeks and rebuilding again. I think there were four separate rebuilds in an 18-month period. And essentially what it came down to in the end was the what...
01:05:52
Speaker
helped was doing like months of the most boring daily rehab of the tiniest little hip movements you've ever done in your life that you go okay this just better pay off thankfully I think it did was either that or just the time no idea but I was doing like two hours of these silly little exercises every day for about six months straight and slowly slowly my body so let me run a little bit again and a little bit became more and more so Yeah, it it was it was honestly I've had um had ah well not many major injuries thankfully but the two stress fractures and returning from them was actually so much easier because you know what's wrong, you know what the path back is and you know the timeline and everything.
01:06:39
Speaker
This one was definitely that mental game of going I don't know if this is going to work, I don't know when I'm going to run again. But I've got to try something. So we're going to commit.
01:06:50
Speaker
And it did pay off eventually, just a long time later. Yeah, it's funny how from a ah regular runner's perspective versus the elite athlete style, it is such a long time. And I imagine your ability to...
01:07:06
Speaker
have patience must be tested on a daily basis because it's not just a oh yeah I'm injured for a couple of weeks it's weeks if not months and then the flow on effects of that so many of these races as well would be planning in advance and thinking well I might like to do this but also I'm not sure if I'll be good to go and all of that do you feel you are you a naturally patient person or is it something that you've just come to manage and and live with um 100% depends on the circumstances. I very much can be. When it comes to running, I definitely can be. I've always sort of, I've always wanted to be in running for the long game.
01:07:44
Speaker
um But it certainly is like when you get when you get injured and it's your job and it's how you make a living and it's what you dedicate every single sort of day of your life to, it does add that level of brutality. Like even when I first got injured with this stressy after Old Ghosts, I got the call for that with the results of the MRI the same day I got a call offering me a spot on the world champs team.
01:08:09
Speaker
um And so it was a case of you had to say, well, I accepted the spot, then got the call, then had to call back sort of thing. And then it is like, it's like, it's, it's my livelihood at this point. So it's, it's how, then you have that whole thing of, okay, I need to get back at some point, but I don't,
01:08:26
Speaker
You don't want to take risks. And so that ive have learned over the years that the best way back is the patient way back usually. i will give anything and every chance at being like, no, this actually isn't as bad as we thought. It's fine. Let's go. Let's go.
01:08:40
Speaker
but as soon as something is as bad as you think, it's kind of like, okay, what's the actual best way back from this that isn't going to then lead to me still being injured way down the track.
01:08:52
Speaker
You can't tell the future at that point though. So, I think, yeah, it's like just trying to take the good with the bad at at that point and still
Coaching and Racing Mindset
01:09:01
Speaker
doing what you can. i did i managed a little bit in amongst it all. It was just like I think ah externally it might have looked okay at times and then in my own little world it was absolute mayhem of trying to figure everything out.
01:09:14
Speaker
So the patient side of it is a daily thing of – Some days I can be patient and some days you just want to throw crap at the wall and everything to be better. um But then i also was very aware that times like I'm in right now would come eventually where I'm running as much as I would ever want to run and everything feels good and it's like – yeah You just you hold on for the time knowing that that if you hold it on long enough, usually that will come.
01:09:43
Speaker
That is still not guaranteed, but I'm always going to put myself trying to get there. To follow on from that, in our last conversation, you mentioned that your coach, Tim Crosby, when you first met him and I guess were sussing each other out, he says he coaches as a human first and a runner second, which I really liked.
01:10:01
Speaker
Yeah. Amongst your professional athlete peers, do you think that this is a unique approach or becoming more so? i think it it's very dependent on person to person from what I've observed. And some people tend to gravitate towards this type of coach or style of coaching that will suit them best.
01:10:21
Speaker
In my observation, like I'm the same with my coaching. It's like I know that you're only going to get the most out of yourself as a runner. Right. when life as a human is good and in a good spot and taken care of first. So the running has to fit in with the life. Now, I've gone and made my life about running, so that makes it a bit easier where I don't have to plan around things. But for most people, it is the case that it goes, well, no, no, no, you want running to add to your life as a human and you are a human first at all times. And on the elite side, some people actually don't go well off that approach at all.
01:10:56
Speaker
They need, they just need the guidance and they need to follow the plan and they want their structure to be around the run happens first, everything else second, at least for a period of time.
01:11:08
Speaker
But yeah, I think just, everyone that I'm around, like some some people now just don't have coaches so that it is very fluid with their life, um even though they might be very elite or they just have guidance from people.
01:11:21
Speaker
But at the end of the day, i think you'll find that without even realizing it, most coaches do actually make a lot of adjustments to all their plans to fit the human that they're coaching.
01:11:34
Speaker
And that's why you get a coach because you don't One plan doesn't fit everyone. Like the reason you get a coach is to go, yeah, this is what I need as a plan, but then I need you to help me shape around it my life.
01:11:47
Speaker
So yeah, that tends to happen, i think, maybe without people even having the focus on that. I think what I love about Tim is that he genuinely does just have that focus on, he might set a plan and then he goes, but how are you? And is this going to work at the moment with where you're at? Yeah, it's really important. And now that you are a coach yourself, has that changed your relationship with your coach at all? Like I guess the student has become the teacher, but then you've but been working together for so long that I'm sure that you've you've built that relationship over so many years. How has your relationship evolved over the years? um With Tim? Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. i do I do find it, I love it. It works really well for us, but essentially he's
01:12:29
Speaker
He is the one that makes a lot of the big decisions and I know I can trust him to make decisions that are in my best interest at all times. Even when if I'm too close or too emotional to for something, I will just happily go, Tim, it's your decision. I know that you're going to make the right one for me. But then it is interesting because Tim's not a trail runner.
01:12:49
Speaker
So, there's and especially this year, I'm going into sky running and trying to explain sky running to someone who was a 1500 meter track runner in his day is an interesting concept.
01:13:03
Speaker
So, over the years, as I've become more specialized in sort of the more technical trails or like my races just become a little more out there, overseeing the plan still always going to be 100% Tim but I write a lot of my own sessions it's very collaborative because I'll go yeah I understand what doing a 3k climb at 25% is ease in the middle of a race and what i need to do to prepare for that it's interesting where you've got to separate the sort of knowledge of the discipline with the knowledge of coaching because he'll know how to fit everything into a plan but i'll be the one that brings sessions to him going i need this for my leg conditioning where does it fit and those sorts of things i love it it's great because i get to make some gnarly sessions up for myself that i've always wanted to do and then tim just fits it in the global plan with
01:13:55
Speaker
all of the recovery and the heat training and everything else that needs to go into all of these things because it's it's very hard to put it all together in a block of training. And especially the way I like training, it might be slightly different to what some other people might like. And sometimes I think the best way on paper for someone to train might not always be the best way to train if they don't enjoy it.
01:14:16
Speaker
And so it's always that factor of going, okay, I want a training plan that is going to get me fit, but I also enjoy at the same time. And that's where the collaboration really does come in because he might put on paper what looks the best and then I go, yeah, but I want this.
01:14:31
Speaker
And so, yeah, I think he trust he trusts me to bring to him what I need and then i trust him to put it in the global plan. That sounds like a really awesome collaboration, like it is is a collaboration. And I think it's amazing that you have that experience I guess, years of of trust to build up so you can take the decision away from you and something that you've trained so hard for and, yeah, like you said, emotionally attached to and just be like, is this best for you in the long run?
01:14:57
Speaker
I feel like a lot of people wouldn't like doing that, but even though it's probably the right thing to do in terms of putting the the decision in someone else's hands.
01:15:08
Speaker
I saw that recently you were down in Lutruwita, Tasmania at the Kanani Mountain Run. I know you've been back there a couple of times, a fantastic Salomon event. um But I was interested to see that in your event recap, to paraphrase, you said that in lieu of feeling tired, both physically and mentally, you drew strength from the beauty of the surroundings, which are exceptional down there. When you're racing and you're focused so intently on your footfalls, pacing and breathing, and especially in sky running, some of the terrain that you're going over is incredibly gnarly. How do you allow nature and being inspired by it to be a conscious part of your race plan? Or do you actually have the time to take in your surrounds? And how do you do that to actually feel like you are where you are?
01:15:51
Speaker
when you're ah in those amazing places? Yeah, good question. Very good question. I think Kunanyu was a slightly different one in that my mentality on the start line was not to race. It was to enjoy the surrounds.
01:16:02
Speaker
um I, on that day, didn't – I was mentally beaten on the start line in terms of a race. I just did not have that in me on the day. – That was where it was very easy on that day to, I was, I was stopping on the organ pipes track to enjoy the view.
01:16:18
Speaker
Like I was chilling and absolutely loving like the surround because I knew that's what I needed on that day. And I think that is one of the beautiful things about trail running is you can have a good day on a bad day.
01:16:31
Speaker
And that was me having a really good day on a really bad day for me race-wise, but going, but that was a beautiful run. I actually went made the conscious decision to go today. I'm not going to push so hard that I can't just purely enjoy where I am.
01:16:46
Speaker
And that got me through. And actually still decently on the day because it's beautiful place and it's beautiful to move through and I do love moving through those sort of surrounds. On that day I might have preferred to do it without a bib but things happen and, yeah, so I think on those days when I know i am not – mentally all there for a race that is a hundred percent when I make the conscious decision to go today is about where I am moving through it and enjoying it because how cool is it that we get to do this but then on other races I very much make try to make sure that almost everywhere I go i do some very nice slow easy course checks and
01:17:31
Speaker
So I get to see the course or where I am and develop a relationship with it before the race that allows me to fully enjoy where I am.
01:17:42
Speaker
There has been a couple of times where just because of overseas travel and calendar and those sorts of things, I've had to fly in, race a course and leave. Those ones, they almost feel like a business transaction with the land. Like they don't feel good. I definitely don't prefer doing it that way.
01:17:58
Speaker
it just works out every now and again like that. But where I can, my way of sort of developing that ah relationship with each place I go is to try and spend a bit of time beforehand looking at the course and then on the day 100% I'll still go because usually I've checked it 100% I'll still go well at the top of this climb you get that epic view out to the left make sure you check and I'll look out and that's fine but it won't be very long and I'm not stopping for a photo like I would on like a normal day but you can still get so much energy from the fact that it can be suffering up a climb and then you go yeah but at the top remember the view
01:18:35
Speaker
Even just sometimes the terrain itself, the path itself, because of like I love technical stuff and I love how focused you have to be on where your footfalls are. So sometimes, yes, I'm not looking up and around my surroundings, but I actually love the layout of the trails sometimes and like really having to be just honed in and choosing your footprints and where your feet land and those sorts of things, it can really – get me in this really nice state of flow down a trail. I might not know my surroundings or the trees or the colors, but I know that trail really well and the ground and the earth itself.
01:19:11
Speaker
And so it it's a different way of looking at it. But also when I do going down a really technical downhill, I'm like looking at the ground, trying to absolutely send it.
01:19:22
Speaker
And you it's very scary when the more technical it is. But every time I get to the bottom of one of the really scary downhills, I very much have this moment of going, thank you, land, for not coming to meet my face.
01:19:34
Speaker
Thank you for letting me pass through. Like, that was great. Thank you. And then keep going sort of thing. Definitely having those moments of going, okay. I didn't feel like I was in much control there, but the land had me. It was all good and keep moving through. so yeah i think So, yeah, I think it's impossible to be a trail runner and not develop some form of relationship with the surroundings, especially that you train in, but also that you race in, even if you're there for a very short period of time. Because even though we do move faster through the terrain, you see you see different things when you're moving faster to when you're, say, going for a hike.
01:20:10
Speaker
and those sorts of things. And I love both ends of that spectrum, but it's finding when you're moving fast, it's finding the little things throughout even a race when I'm really focused on racing. Sure, sometimes you need a distraction.
01:20:23
Speaker
Everything hurts. You're pushing really hard. And at all times I'll be trying to search for that distraction in the surrounds. Is there something pretty? Is there like a really cool rock I'm about to stand on? Like it's just micro distractions along the way because that's one of the best things about trail running. They're always there.
01:20:42
Speaker
It's not just pavement. It's not the same. Exactly. There's plenty of
Future Plans and Reflections
01:20:47
Speaker
them. Where are you going visiting? What's coming up? We're coming into Australian winter, which means European summer, Northern Hemisphere, everything. It's all happening.
01:20:56
Speaker
What are your plans for the coming months? Well, it's a little bit different this year. I'm actually going to be spending a lot of time in Asia um because there's some incredible races. Nice and beautiful.
01:21:08
Speaker
I say close. They're not that close, but they're closer to Oz. So I actually fly out a week today. This time next week, I'm on a plane to Malaysia and then I race in Penang that weekend, so in two weeks.
01:21:22
Speaker
And then I'm off to Japan and I race in Japan one week later. And those two are probably some of the scariest races I've ever seen on paper. um Well, the one in Japan, definitely.
01:21:33
Speaker
Just in terms of the vert, I think it's 3,000 meters up and down over 25K, which wow doesn't quite compute in my brain. it It's Kunanyi, the same distance as Kunanyi, but double the up and down. Yeah, i was thinking I would have even been able to get Kunanyi is a very hilly race for Oz and it is quite literally double the up and down over the same distance. Like even my brain, I've done a lot of wild races and I'm still trying to wrap my head around what am I actually getting myself into here.
01:22:04
Speaker
But that's my first two races of the Skyrunning World Series. And then it's back to Oz for a great big block of training for another race in the Skyrunning Series, which I'm doing in Poland on the way to CCC.
01:22:18
Speaker
Oh, fantastic. So I've got CCC in August, so I get to do a great big hundred k b block off the back of my first two races. I get a nice big stint in Melbourne winter, um which I haven't ah haven't spent – too long here in winter for a while now so it'll be good and more time at home that was the one thing I i really reached the point of last year um when I did another big few month long trip and just went I can't do these anymore I don't want to be away from home for quite so long it's very hard living out of a suitcase for three four months in a row so that's why well a why Asia is my where I'm going to be spending a bit of time and then
01:22:58
Speaker
When I do go to Europe, it's a six-week trip, which still sounds long, but it's half of what I would normally, or less than half. So, yeah, ah Poland and CCC. And then I finished my year in the back end of October, start of November with Skyrunning back in Malaysia, South Korea, and then Spain. Wow. Yeah.
01:23:18
Speaker
Three separate trips this year, which is very different for me, but I'm looking forward to the fact that when I get on a plane next week, I know I'm back in just two and a half weeks. It feels so short.
01:23:29
Speaker
Yeah. I was going to ask how your approach or attitude to racing internationally has changed because I know last time... yeah, you just been to Europe and COVID and this and balance of travel and racing and recovery is, I feel like an impossible equation.
01:23:45
Speaker
And then combined with your love of routine as well. And, you know, routine often happens at home. So it sounds like, yeah, you've evolved. And I guess the only way to get to that is by experiencing it and finding out what works and what doesn't work for you and where you want to spend your time and Yeah, sounds like some time in Asia will be incredibly hard work um at some of those races, but an amazing experience. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think, yeah, I've gotten very good at creating a home in many, many places around the world. So I've learned that when you're living out of a suitcase, the first thing you do when you get to any place is take everything out of the suitcase so you don't feel like you're living out of a suitcase so much.
01:24:25
Speaker
So i will I will be the person that will move into a hotel for a night and still pull my stuff in the drawer for the next morning. It's like, yeah, so you can definitely learn a lot um along the way. and Yeah.
01:24:37
Speaker
International races can be damn scary, they're also the best opportunity you'll ever get. So it's pretty cool. Definitely. Well, thank you so much for your time this morning, Simone, and all the best for your time in Malaysia and then Japan. i am looking forward to seeing what that course looks like in real life because I can't even imagine. Oh, yeah, me too.
01:24:57
Speaker
Based off those stats. I hope you get a bit of time out on course to appreciate it. So, yeah, I imagine there'll be some pretty gnarly downhills amongst that 3,000 metres of dirt. There has to be. I think dropping 3,000 metres in 12K, I'm not sure there'll be a single non-gnarly descent. Well, I hope that the land has your back that day and, yeah, there'll be a lot of gratitude hopefully being exchanged between the two of you. Yep.
01:25:23
Speaker
But yeah, thanks so much for your time and safe and happy travels and keep up awesome work with Peak Pursuits. Thank you you. know a lot of our crew really enjoy it keeping them company on their long runs. Thank you. It's very cool to have an Australian podcast delving into the the amazing never-ending world of trail and ultra running. It's very cool. Well, thank you so much for having me, Hilary. It's been great to have a chat.
Conclusion and Promotions
01:25:47
Speaker
And that's the finish line of our eighth trail chat. Thank you for tuning in for this conversation with trail running's number one fan, Simone Brick. If you'd like to see and hear more from Simone, you can catch her on the Peak Pursuits podcast or at theflyingbrick on Instagram. If Simone's coaching style aligns with you, you can find out more at www.evolverunclub.com.au or on socials at evolve underscore run underscore club. If you've liked what you've heard and would like to stay in touch with us, then follow us at For Wild Places or subscribe to our weekly newsletter.
01:26:21
Speaker
Every Friday, we'll pop into your inbox, bringing you interviews with athletes and activists, events, info, and everything trails, environment, and adventure. Or if you'd like to support what we do financially, then we'd love for you to make a tax-deductible donation. To do this, head to forwildplaces.com.
01:26:38
Speaker
Thank you again for joining us. We are absolutely stoked to have you here. A huge thank you to Simone for sitting down with us and generally sharing your experience and insights into the world of training, injury, and racing.
01:26:50
Speaker
also Thank you to Lara Hamilton for our theme music. And finally to you, our listeners, for your patience as we slowly but surely bring you these episodes. so and Until next time, folks, happy trails.
01:27:02
Speaker
And as always, thank you for taking the time for Wild Places.
01:27:20
Speaker
Bye.