Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the For Wild Places podcast. This is a podcast that shares the stories of inspiring people and their adventures in running, adventure and advocacy. I'm your host, Hilary, and today we're chatting with prolific ultra runner, software developer and consistency queen, Melissa Robertson.
Speaker: But before we get into today's chat with Melissa, I would like to acknowledge the First Nations people who have been custodians of land, waters and culture for tens of thousands of years. This podcast was recorded on Gadigal Country in so-called Australia, where sovereignty was never ceded.
Speaker: This always was and will be Aboriginal land.
Speaker: Today's guest, Melissa, lives on the central coast of New South Wales, and when she isn't designing software for the Australian Antarctica division, she's a prolific ultra runner. Melissa is one of those people that you marvel at, clocking up consistent kilometres week after week, competing in a slew of races from 200 milers to backyard ultras week after week, year after year, all while working nine to five. Melissa's love and passion for running is embedded into who she is,
Speaker: and we are so grateful to her for sharing this infectious energy with us. Our first chat with Melissa was in April 2023, fresh off the heels of attempting the Barclay Marathons, a race Melissa described as insane.
Speaker: I then caught up with Melissa in October 2025, two and a half years and many accomplishments later. We talk about consistency, training in all conditions, her upcoming move to Lutruwita, Tasmania and training for UTMB 2026.
Speaker: Melissa is a warm, passionate and humble person who, despite her accolades, doesn't seem to take racing too seriously. Despite her cool, calm nature, you know that she's got her race plan dialed and has considered all of the elements outside of her control so she can take the uncontrollables in her stride, which she does with pride and a smile on her face.
Speaker: Let's get into the initial chat between Will and Melissa from April 2023.
Speaker: Welcome everybody to Fowl Place's chat. trail chap ah My name is Will. I'm based on Darawa land in Port Kembla, just south of Sydney. My pronouns are he, him.
Speaker: I work for For Wild Places. We put on these monthly chats. Before I do anything more, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land and pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.
Speaker: It's a bit chilly here today, so I don't have my For Wild Places t-shirt on, unfortunately. The other thing I wanted to do before we started, just in case I forget, is to announce that ah for Wild Places signature event, the Pilliga Ultra, we are just about to launch registrations for our second Pilliga Ultra, which will be on September the 9th this year, 2023.
Speaker: Pilliga State Forest is a beautiful state forest up in northwest New South Wales. It's called the Lungs of New South Wales. And it's currently under threat from a pretty epic coal-themed gas development. As trail running activists, that's our signature event to try and build awareness and raise some funds for the campaign to stop CSG and the Pilliga. So put that date in your calendar and keep an eye out for when the registrations go live, the Pilliga Ultra.
Speaker: All right, moving right along. We are stoked this month to have as a special special guest... The trail and ultra runner from the central coast.
Speaker: And I just want to read some of the excellently named runs that our guest has been a part of. She's won the delirious West, the unreasonable East and the irrational South 200 milers.
Speaker: She's also taken part in the famous or infamous, depending how you feel, and mysterious Barkley Marathon, which I'm definitely keen to talk to her about.
Speaker: But please welcome as our special guest, Melissa Robinson. Thanks for joining us, Melissa. Hey, thanks for having me. As part of the bio that you sent through, it ended with,
Speaker: Melissa likes a lot. The first thing I wanted to ask was, how did you find out in the first place that you really liked running a lot? I guess I did bushwalking and then it kind of, I actually did obstacle racing a bit until the obstacles got too heavy and a bit too high.
Speaker: And I only really went well in the races because ah could run. And yeah, I just transitioned into running. I've always been bushwalker and yeah, it just seemed like a natural progression.
Speaker: And my dad was the runner as well. Not that I ever ran with him. We just went to the races and did other things. I saw a lot of caves during six foot track. Never saw the race, saw a lot of the caves.
Speaker: Beautiful. And from there, and I guess people- Just got longer. Yeah, how do you go from there to participating in 200 mile runs? I guess that's possibly a long answer.
Speaker: Not really. I guess I just wanted to, so before I did my first road marathon to make sure I could run the distance, I ran around the lake, which was fifty k i figured if I could do that, I could do a mar marathon.
Speaker: So I went and did a marathon. I think it just became a natural progression. Like we have a run on the central coast called the Great North Walk Ultras. And that was my first proper ultra.
Speaker: I went into it with the intention of not only finishing it, but winning and breaking the record of the 100K. So i trained on the course for months because it's local and yeah, went into it, achieved that goal.
Speaker: And then the following year is naturally the progression to try the 100 miler. which I failed at miserably, got dehydrated, ended up on a drip 100 k's in and and yeah, that was the end of my race. so It's kind of just grown from there.
Speaker: You ended up on a drip? Yes, yes. I was very dehydrated. They were pulling me out of the race regardless. They actually weigh you in that one. so They check you haven't lost too much weight as you're coming into the aid stations. I'd lost, think it was 6% something. It was a significant amount of weight between the last weight and in that weight and I was just dehydration.
Speaker: Wow. I don't want to jump off on a tangent too early, but I'll i'll come back to Hillary, who has given apologies, has specifically asked me to ask you about training for a 200 miler, which is related. going to park that because I need to try and stay on track because if I don't, we'll all get completely lost.
Speaker: but Wow. That's intense. Give us a sense of, yeah, um where you're based, what your local trails are and what you've kind of been up to lately. So I'm based at Long Jetty, suburb on the central coast. It's kind of between the lake and the ocean. There's a Long Jetty, three of them.
Speaker: And my like regular weekday runs area through Wirribolong National Park, which goes from Shelley Beach and just follows the coastline south up to Cromedy Lookout and then back. So that's like my standard 10-bit care.
Speaker: And where I live is also surrounded by national parks. So I think we've got like... five national parks and a couple of state forests. And that's where I play on the weekend or even through the week. We use like, um actually we're using council land at the moment just to do our hill repeats. And we've got a nice little hill out at Kangiangi.
Speaker: That's 1.4 K. We just run up and down that we used to be out in a Rimba state forest, but the road got washed out. So we relocated. So yeah, lots of national parks. And also for something like delirious West where,
Speaker: There's a lot of sand running because I'm right near the coast. I just go from home and just run north and then turn around and often I'll come back on the bush trail zone just because I get a bit sick of sand. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Sand's intense. Oh yeah. It can be. I pick my tides a little, I'm a little bit soft. It's not like I run in high tide. mean, I don't want to make it too unpleasant.
Speaker: I actually, but when you're speaking, I reckon there's quite a bit of similarity between where I live and where you live. um And bizarrely, we've got a lake right here that's 42 kilometres around. So it's a nice marathon size.
Speaker: Yeah. um But yeah, the I love the beach and the sandy trails. um And okay, so um I might jump into that question I was talking about earlier. So you're mainly running on the weekends. How do you balance all this out?
Speaker: Yeah, so i work full time. um For most of this, I was like commuting while training. It's the work from home that really come into play since COVID. Prior to that, I was commuting up to four hours a day, so three to four hours a day, which meant a lot of early morning runs. Now it's a bit easier, so I get more sleep.
Speaker: But I'll generally do, generally like max out about an hour and a half before work or after work. My training runs through the week on the weekend, back to back long runs on Saturday, Sunday, start them, most of them in the early hours of the morning, just to get them done and finish everything in. It's not about training, like coming into an ultra running at 2am is kind of the standard. So i'm just used to what the world's like at that time. So it doesn't worry me. Hey, on that note, I'm thinking of a question from our last chat. What head torch do you recommend?
Speaker: I use two head torches. I have an A-Up and also a ferrite. A-Up and a ferrite. Yeah, they're the two that I use. I alternate between them. The A-Up's a little bit heavier.
Speaker: i think it's 700 lumen, but it has twin lights and it gives quite a good light. The batteries are a little bit chunkier, but has a really nice, it sits on your head really nice. And also just heavy duty.
Speaker: I have not managed to destroy this. I'm pretty good at destroying things I use for trail running. And the ferrite thousand lumen. The light probably isn't quite as good. Just how it shines on, I don't know. I guess it's how the shadows and everything it casts. Not quite as tough, but the batteries are more common. So I just have a lot of those. For the longer runs, I'll generally switch between the two. Yeah, nice.
Speaker: Excellent. aham I'll find who asked that question from the last chat and forward that on. When you said we, talking about where you're training and doing your hill runs and everything, who did you mean by we?
Speaker: Oh, my friends, whoever's coming. We have a little chat group on Facebook. I don't actually post a session because you get less people if you post a session. You just tell them what time to show up and then they only get to find out the session, do the warm up, down the road, like under a tunnel, then back up.
Speaker: And then we head to the hill and you don't get to find out the session until we're headed off to the hill and you pass the cars just in case you try to escape.
Speaker: Nice. that's a so That's a super helpful tip. Yeah. but There was two of us this morning. There was like Liz and Gus came out to do hills. So it was, you know, a nice little group.
Speaker: Excellent. Excellent. um but But you are, that there is a trail running group, like in trail running community you're a part of. you I'm in Terrigal Trotters on the Central Coast. So it's not specifically trail running. your Total mix. There's all road runners in there and stuff as well. They have a regular meetup at 6am every Saturday at Terrigal.
Speaker: Oh, cool. So I go to there at different times. Often I'm doing longer runs, so sometimes I'll just run through and continue on I also ran a lot with Wooters Runners up in Newcastle when I was working up there, so I joined them on their Friday night trail runs. and therere It's very similar to Trotters. There's a similar style of anyone's welcome, um come have fun. We just want to share our passion with people.
Speaker: Shout out to the Trotters and the Newcastle. Wooters. The Wooters. nice Yeah, they woot. It's woot woot. They do the owl thing. Owls their thing. So it's like they woot like owls and make little owls.
Speaker: So it's it's actually pretty cool. If you're in a race, you can like, you see someone else with the orange wooter shirt, you can go woot woot. It's like an encouraging thing. I like it. That is cool. hands Awesome. um All right.
Speaker: i think we need to just nerd out a bit and ask you about the Barkley, if that's cool. I'm still relatively new to trail running in particular, but even running. So I'm really loving finding out about all these ah incredible races. One of the first things I watched was the doco on the Barkley. I can't remember what it's called. but Where dreams go to die and the race it eats its young. yeah They're the two main ones.
Speaker: I think one's on like Netflix and one's on YouTube. You can generally track them down. two doco names that really give you a sense of the pain that will be involved. But can we can we start from the beginning? How did you even go about applying to enter the Barclay?
Speaker: ah So the entry process is like the secret thing. One of my friends, she's really good at Facebook stalking. So we figured out someone that we knew that had all the details and they just passed them over to me.
Speaker: And so you it's pretty well known. You send it off an essay as to why you want to go in Barclays and why you should go in Barclays. I can't really write an essay. I just wrote a limerick and then put some other stats it's Yeah, that that was pretty much it.
Speaker: You hear back. And I was actually on the wait list for Barclays. So i was fifth. There's 40 people that get into it. And then there's a wait list, might be about 50 people or so I can't remember now.
Speaker: um And I was fifth on the wait list this year. So I didn't know if I'd get to go, but it was fairly high on the wait list. I found out about three days after I finished Delirious West and I had three weeks up to get over to the States.
Speaker: It was a bit short notice, but I might as well just go have a crack. yeah Wow. Go for the experience. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, 100%. And for folks who haven't who aren't across the Barkley, can you just give a bit of a description of, ah I mean, it's basically known as one of the toughest runs on the planet. Give us a sense of where it is, how long it is, terrain, the terrain,
Speaker: Yeah, so it takes place in Frozen Head State Park over in Tennessee in the USA. It's five laps of an insane course where part of it's on a trail, most of it's not on the trail.
Speaker: And so you've just got a map you have to copy from and then follow it to find the books each lap and rip out the page that corresponds to your BIM number. But I have no idea how far each lap is because you're not allowed to carry any ah electronics. So there's no GPS or anything, which I would have loved because I would have loved to see where I went when I got lost.
Speaker: ah They actually give you like a cheap $10 watch to wear and that's what you have. ah So and there's no wearing your own watch or anything like that? No, no watches, no phones, none of that.
Speaker: I mean, that makes sense scott because i've never seen a yeah like a so I've never seen a Strava map of the Barkley. No, you wouldn't. I think earlier on, I have seen videos on YouTube where they're carrying GoPros and stuff. So it must have been allowed at some point. I think the watch though never was Yeah, right. I mean, given you're off trail, I mean, you know, each participant could run quite radically different distances given. Oh, totally.
Speaker: Yeah. Depending on their navigation skills and you are meant to follow a set course off trail, but I mean, you depends on your navigation skills. And the idea is there's a book at certain points.
Speaker: Yep. So there was 13 books throughout the course that you have to hit. And there I suppose like in Orienteer and Rogaring, that'd be your controls. yeah The only difference is you pull out a page. So if you'd be a number three, you pull out page number three at each book.
Speaker: yeah And then you return with a stash of 13 page number threes. Yeah. And you finished a loop, yeah? ah Yeah, but I was way over time. It was not a quality loop.
Speaker: Mate, look, talking yourself down. I think it's extraordinary that you finished a loop. Well done. Like watching that doco. cant Yeah. um How, ah yeah and and sorry, so the pages are the evidence when you get back to um to to that you finished the loop. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah um And okay, so you find out that you're in, yeah you find out three days after the Julia is West, that's hardcore, ah three weeks to get over the States.
Speaker: Can you explain the kind of check-in process, how that process unfolds? Yeah, so he books out the entire campground for the day before. Everyone kind of rocks up at various times.
Speaker: He opens Rego whenever he feels like this is his world now. So it's whenever he feels like everyone shows up with their little number plate or whatever he's requested. There's a map that's drawn out and you get some instructions on where to find the books. The instructions are pretty wordy, but not necessarily useful.
Speaker: It can start any time between midnight and midday, and that's when he sounds unconscious one hour before it starts. But you don't know when it will be in that time period. That is, I mean, I don't think I'd ever get into the Barkley because I don't think I probably should for my own health. I wonder how many runners are a bit like me in that I'm a little bit, i don't know if OCD is the right word or whatever, but, you know, I love to know when things start. I love to plan.
Speaker: My friend came over with me and she was up there and she said he'd keep walking around with conch and he'd like stand up and stretch just to see people react and then he'd sit back down. And so she actually hung out or not because I'm like...
Speaker: I'll need to get some sleep. Like you have to still sleep and someone has to notify you. You don't want sleep through it. ah It's, it is unnerving. What did you do? Well, yeah. So I was going to ask about sleep, but also just food. I like to have a certain amount of food, a certain amount of time before a race starts. Did you just kind of have to keep fueled to a certain point? Yeah.
Speaker: No, just had dinner and then I had something to eat when an hour before and that was that. I wasn't, I mean, you're not charging off. It's not like marathon or something where you got to go into it really fueled. This is slow. Think more like walk running. It's intense, but it's not fast. Like you you can fuel while you're hiking and you can fuel on the downhills. Like you don't have to go in fully prepared.
Speaker: Fair call. Actually, I'm not sure if we covered it before, but i don't know if you know the elevation, but it's literally straight up, straight down. Yeah, it's kind of cruel. Basically, a books at the top of the hill, there's at the bottom. But the hills are like massive.
Speaker: I don't know what they are. Everything was in feet. You'd spend an hour hiking up a giant hill but where your calves are burning. Some are so steep. If you didn't have poles, you'd be using your hands to scramble up. It's pretty insane. We have hills like that here.
Speaker: but they're covered in trees because it's deciduous. You're just going straight up. So it'd be like, i don't know if you know Buffalo Stampede. That's that race down at Bright. That's probably the closest we have where it's just so as in staying climbs up to clear spot or out mixed track or something like that. That would be the closest. Just think bigger.
Speaker: yeah longer Yes. Longer. ah The Stampede, I've never done it. I know that's known as pretty brutal. Did you have any slips or falls? How did you go on the run? yeah Yeah, slipped over, but mostly it's just sliding.
Speaker: Sometimes that's the quickest way to get down. but So nothing that I was injured or anything. In the documentaries, like they carry on about the brambles, the spiky things. It's nothing. We've got lawyer vine.
Speaker: We've got all our bushes spiky. I went to him like, you're fine. I can handle this. Oh, well. From Australia, vine's nothing. The worst it did was like it tangled in my beanie and ripped it off. I'd got the beanie back and continued on my way.
Speaker: Cool. You said you went there for the experience. Were there moments of joy? Did you actually get to enjoy it? little bit. It got really cold overnight. And so like well below zero.
Speaker: And there was all these like frozen things. And I'm not used to ice and cold. So I spent a lot of time touching. I really wanted a phone to take photos of frozen waterfalls and stuff. It was so fascinating because it'll get below zero here maybe, but only minus one.
Speaker: had a bladder obviously in my pack and the hose of the bladder froze so I couldn't get water out through the night. I didn't know what to do because it's not a situation I have. So I like try to rub it and blow it in all this stuff and that just gave up. But there's a heap of streams there.
Speaker: So there's fresh water. So it wasn't an issue. I could just get water. Yeah. Yeah. I just drank our streams till it defrosted. But um yeah, I quite enjoyed seeing the frozen waterfalls. i was stabbing the ice with my poles. I was pretty distracted.
Speaker: What a shame you couldn't have your phone in just you just in terms of the photos. Yeah, I just want photos, but couldn't have no photos. Well, I guess, I mean, yeah, then you'd be, I mean, stopping for photos and stuff is, yeah, probably not the idea. I'd still stop for photos.
Speaker: Yeah, I would too. I'm also having to read a map. There is quite a bit of stopping as trying to figure things out. It's not, you're not just running because there's not a course marked. So you've got to run, then stop, analyze the map and then maybe hike or run a bit more.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. um Shane's just said there's an Australian version called Unbreakable in June near Marysville in Vic. Oh, so Shane, that's an Australian event. Yeah, it is.
Speaker: It's based on the Barclay. It hasn't been as hard the first year or two. It's based on that. And I slept through the horn the first year. It's to get ready. People forgot I wasn't there and I was still asleep.
Speaker: So when you were going to be involved, but you slept through the the start. I did it the first year. I slept through the horn though. um mary I love Marysville. I'm from Bendigo originally. Beautiful terrain. Probably not as tough as the Barkley. Most of it you could do on track unless you chose to go off, but he's probably made it harder each year. Did you have to follow a course? Like were you allowed on or off track depending on the route you chose?
Speaker: Yeah. Barkley, you couldn't make a choice. You had to go by what it said on or off the track. But I like that. That sounds nicer. Good one to use a training run for next time. all yeah I'll just go to for fun.
Speaker: I think there's one New Zealand too. Yeah, that's a one. That one's meant to be really hard. Wow. don't know if they've ever had a finisher on that one. Now, Melissa, I forgot to check.
Speaker: Were there three finishes this year when you did Yes. Yes. Because the weather wasn't that bad. While it was really cold, cold's fine. You can deal with that. It wasn't raining or foggy. So yeah, there were three finishes. That's amazing. Because yeah I mean, some years there's none. It hasn't been. Oh yeah. Next year is going be so hard for anyone doing it because he's had three finishes. So he'll just make it extra hard.
Speaker: What a fascinating event. If anyone else has questions around the the Barclay, Barclay, shoot them through. Melissa, I just wanted to pass on Hillary's question. My colleague Hillary, who are 200 miler, but hilariously, she's not keen to do a hundred mile at first. Your advice on training for a 200 miler and just wanted your honest opinion on should she actually bite the bullet and do a hundred mile at first?
Speaker: There's plenty of people I reckon could go straight to a 200 miler. um and Most of them because they have big cutoffs depending on what one she's doing. So you can walk a lot of them and still finish within cutoff. Not all of it, but you can walk, run it and yeah, finish within cutoff.
Speaker: In terms of training, it's time on your feet. So just a lot of long runs, early mornings, Saturday, Sunday, spending the day out there or start early in the morning and run to mid-morning. What's the longest distance you'd want to have under your belt? but You know, so you felt confident you could actually complete a 200-miler.
Speaker: don't think you'd ever feel confident. The longest I do is probably about like 80 or 90 K I'll do one big hit out. But if I do more than that, I'm fatigued from my training run. So I can't really train. So it's kind of about four weeks out. I'll do.
Speaker: Something big. So for Delirious West, that one, I think ended up about 80K or so. I ran from home, followed the coast all the way to Newcastle, and then caught the train back. And it was like, that's my hit out. I just left after work and finished sometime the next morning when the trains were running and came back down.
Speaker: I'll do something like that about four weeks before the race. And I figure if I can do that, I can do the rest. Awesome. Shane's just asked, do you do full overnight training runs to practice in the dark?
Speaker: Probably not deliberately. I think it's more just to fit in around work and things, but it definitely helps. Some other runners get a bit worried in the dark. They're worried about the navigation or worried about, don't weird noises. It just doesn't worry me because I train so much in the dark.
Speaker: You must be pretty confident in the dark. my weekday runs at the moment because of the time of year I start in the dark and then finish sometime just after the sun's come up I do recommend it if you have that choice definitely start after work or but like midnight and run through till light yeah I don't like night running I've got really poor eyesight and I lose confidence you can actually train in that confidence and that mental aspect Al's popped in with a visual did you want to ask a question Al Yes, I do have a question.
Speaker: You mentioned yeah earlier that you had to pull out of a 100 miler and ended up on a trip because you got dehydrated. I'm aware that's usually not drinking enough water, but do you know what other factors are that actually contributed to that, that you could have mitigated?
Speaker: ah It would have been drinking. So I wasn't drinking to thirst. Then being thirsty, which did not help the situation. It all went downhill from there. And I struggled to get food in and I struggled to get water in.
Speaker: So it was kind of a combination of things. Also, i was hot. So it was just a beginner mistake. But good learning though.
Speaker: I bet you haven't made that mistake again. No. The only other thing I do is i keep water. I always run with just water. So something like tailwind, I like tailwind, but I'll treat it as nutrition.
Speaker: So I keep that separate from my water. That's a good tip. Thanks, Al. Melissa Deda asks, what other training do you do through the week? I do track sessions on Tuesday, hills on like Thursday, a couple of runs just for fun through the week. And i do be a bit of strength work and stretching as well.
Speaker: About three strength sessions just at home and then stretch most nights. Yeah, nice one. What's your basic strength session? What are you working Uh, kind of anything. I do a bit of a mix. I used to go to the gym, but when they all shut down during COVID, I got an app on my phone, like a training one and I mix it up with different programs on there. I really do running specific. I like a mix of upper body workouts or legs or a lot of the core work. I kind of, I think it just seems to help.
Speaker: Like just makes you a bit overall stronger. I could probably do it a bit better and actually focus the strength training, but don't know. I'm not that worried. No, I'm um um'm really committed to strength stuff now because I'm getting on and it's not about performance. It's about injury prevention and and actually comfort, yeah like just being able to still be able. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah It feels good to go into a race just feeling that little bit stronger. And I'm sure it helps. Like the upper body workouts, they help when I'm using poles and things like that. It just gives me that bit of extra confidence.
Speaker: And the core ones always do. Because i it's always something I find. I'm surprised how sore my abs are after a big ultra. Like they'll start to cramp or something. It's like... I'm surprised how much you use them.
Speaker: Hey, what's the, we're obviously ah ah running group for wild places. We obviously love running. The moment in running that's brought you the most joy, you know, that moment where you're just like, oh, how good is this? I know you've probably got a million, but are there any that jump out?
Speaker: know, probably anywhere I get to a good lookout, somewhere that people can't normally get to. You've just run in there and you know it takes someone three days to hike to this place and you're out on your training run and you'll just go there and get to enjoy the place and then run home to have a shower.
Speaker: Yeah. Their hiking days. I think I enjoy that the most. I also, um during COVID, because we're where I was, we were locked down to our suburb. Mine being the Central Coast is kind of large. I spent a lot of time looking at maps and i was going off to find old Aboriginal shelter caves and old places. i was mapping it out and then running to the location that have to hike for a kilometre through the bush to actually get there. And it's like this place that no one's been to for years or decades. I quite enjoyed that.
Speaker: Yeah. I love that feeling. That's awesome. Deb has also made the point that strength is very important for bone density, particularly for women. i agree. Nice one. um Yeah, I love that kind of feeling of exploring.
Speaker: up In your area, for Wild Places as a running group, but we're also an environmentalist group. We love running. Therefore, we love the places we run. We want to try and do more to look after the places we run and protect them threats. What's the state of the trails up your way? Are there any particular threats the trails are facing up there?
Speaker: Are there any community campaigns, you know, to to protect and look after the trails? I don't know if there's like outside threats as much because I love it's National Park. So it's already very well protected and National Park, like they're always doing various works. There's some on my morning where they're redoing crack neck lookout and gosh, that's looking really good.
Speaker: Previously, it was just a giant car park, essentially. But now they're putting like nice little tables. And I quite like that. So they do quite a bit of work around where I am. Oh, they also put in new toilets, which is very handy on various trails.
Speaker: I suppose in the state forest, they do the logging, but that's kind of the side effect of we get the state forest to play in. So that's the cost of it. Mm-hmm. But they also improved the roads like Mount Forks Road up in the Wadigans. It had a giant landslide, which took it out.
Speaker: It was actually pretty cool to see if you went up there, but they've just fixed that up. So I want to go see the repaired road now. Yeah. um ah Most of it's actually pretty well protected around me. Probably the only controversy is the council selling off various bits of land because it went broke. I'm not quite sure of all the outcomes of that.
Speaker: That's a spectacular error of your way. we um With your national parks, we um ah wrote an article recently. About down here, we've got this beautiful escarpment that we look up on, but we've got feral deer, other animals, and also just weeds. The National Parks folks are awesome, but pretty underfunded.
Speaker: Do you come across deer and invasive species like that up your way? I have seen some deer up the Wadigans, not very often. I have heard that there are quite a few. We get lot rabbits.
Speaker: It's rabbits and foxes because it's coastals. So there's always rabbits when I go for my morning run. Yeah. But they bait for them and the foxes as well. That's how they're managing those ones.
Speaker: um and invasive would be also be Lantana, obviously. Oh, yeah. Yep. We get a lot of Lantana. There's also Bitterbush, but that one doesn't cut me up, the Lantana. I have more issues with it.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, Lantana can be like a hacksaw. Yeah. ah it's I have a lot of Lantana scratches just because it's everywhere. There are various pockets where community groups actually clear out the Lantana. So they've done a big batch above Blue Lagoon at the moment. They've like been put in a new community walking trail. It looks really nice. Awesome.
Speaker: That's great. Shane's just asked Melissa, do you use a crew in the 200 mile or do you rely on the event support? Use a crew. um So I have my friend, Kel. She's originally from Albany and W. Her folks are still over there. When I got closer to the finish line, they were coming out cheer me on, which is quite nice.
Speaker: Mostly like the aid stations are fantastic and there's certain ones your crew can't get to. So you're relying on them, but having a crew makes it so much easier for like things like headlamp batteries, where you can't quite calculate what time you'll be at a place.
Speaker: I know she'll be there so I can switch out batteries. Whereas otherwise I have to know if I'll be there in the light or the day and after 200 odd kilometers, it's really hard to predict those things.
Speaker: I have had paces one year. I enjoy paces, but I didn't have any paces this year and that also worked just fine. I just used my headphones and did bit of terrible singing and that was it. Nice.
Speaker: So what are you, are you training for anything at the moment? What's on the calendar for the rest of the year? I actually had little bit of downtime after Barclays cause I'd done a bit too much. So currently I'm training for a half marathon, Bay to Bay half marathon, which sounds really weird, but I did a half marathon while i was over in Tennessee, just before we flew home.
Speaker: I did all right in it. So now I'm like the Tennessee masters half marathon champion. I figure yeah I'm going to have a crack at the local ones, Bay Bay Half. That's coming up in a few weeks. And then I'm doing Lakes 100 after that.
Speaker: And then i got COVID. So they rolled my entry over to this year, which was quite nice. So i'm doing that one. And after that will be Human Hobble, 100 miler, which is my favorite 100 miler. Tell us about the Human Hobble. Where's that?
Speaker: ah That one's down Tumbarumba and it's heads out from Tumbarumba down to Menace Lake. And kind of when you're running on the lake, you get to see like the snowy mountains off in the distance. And then you come back and you climb up this giant mountain called Grenet Mountain.
Speaker: um It's... It's actually, it's there was one year I got hit by hail, which was kind of exciting. And it gets like freezing up on top. There's an aid station almost on top of the mountain. You go past these like spectacular waterfalls, which I try to get to in the light, because it's just a bit over 100k.
Speaker: And um see the little waterfalls down the bottom, then you come back up on the mountain. Then you run over to the peak of the mountain, which the first year i was pretty excited about, because i was like, oh, I'll get to see if you, you see nothing. This is true. It's boring. Yeah.
Speaker: Then you come off the mountain and down to the finish line. I really like it because it's like a community event. They kind of just love having the runners there and playing on their course. You also have to go through the cow paddocks and the cows it eat the markers.
Speaker: So they have to put out flashing lights because the cows don't eat them.
Speaker: So it's actually pretty funny. The cows like, yeah, they just destroy the things. And then the baby cows, they are ah do chase me, which I have cow issues. kind of trying to get rid of the cows and you have to get over the electric fences at like a hundred miles.
Speaker: You try to get over these styles and hard work, but great event. Talk about obstacles on the way. kind of like, it's it's a really nice one though. Like the variations in the course, like running besides this river and over a suspension bridge down to the lake and then coming all the way back. There's Brumbies because of course, right near the snowy. So yeah you don't know what the Brumbies are going to Mostly I just put another runner between me and let them sort it out.
Speaker: um Yeah, it's just nice. Also, there was like old gold mining down there. So you're running through gold tailings and stuff as well. There's all this history in the area. We'll do it 100 mile, right? I like things that distract me.
Speaker: Yeah, no, that sounds cool. And what's 100k or 100 mile? 100k. So it's 100k. It goes from Hawksnest up to Silroxen back, and most of it's on sand.
Speaker: So I did... I did like a trial of it a few years ago just to see what the course is like. And I made it 80K and then decided to give up and go to car. Cause I was like, that that's enough training, but yeah, a lot of sand. So they did run it last year and everyone said a lot of sand. So we'll see what it's like.
Speaker: so I'm looking forward to it. Do you cycle, swim? Do you work in any of that stuff or do you just run? Mostly running. i do a little bit of riding, but not properly. When I get injured, you'll see my Strava goes to a lot of cycling and swimming.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Generally not. I'm just riding my bike to get to a run. Swimming, I'm not much of a swimmer. Sometimes I'll swim, sometimes I won't. I don't like cold water. I don't think soft can be used to describe you, Melissa.
Speaker: I hate swimming. I can totally relate. Yeah. I'm also incredibly slow. I have no natural skill at it, but it is something I'll do if, mostly if I'm injured, that's when I focus on those things to kind of just to stay active.
Speaker: Yeah. take Take the impact off and stay active. That lakes one on sand, that's nuts because sand running is so intense on your calves. You're obviously going to up the sand running ah to prepare. Maybe a little.
Speaker: Depends on how I feel. Sometimes I don't always want run just for training. I like to run for fun. So I'll, I did do some sand running last weekend. should probably do some more this. I'll think about it.
Speaker: The sand running is come convenient because I go from home and I just head north. Yeah. Yeah. To the the long beaches and there's a lighthouse on the way. So it gives me something to aim for. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful sand running your way.
Speaker: Melissa, any big plans next year? Like any big events you're planning for medium to long-term? Not really. need something new. I wouldn't mind doing a rational South. They've got a new course for that, which I'm pretty keen on, but no, I'm open.
Speaker: don't know. I need some new goals, which I haven't yet put in place. It's kind of like when you've done the three 200 milers, what do you do next? yeah I'm open to suggestions, to be honest.
Speaker: Well, Sand running. You were going to think about that. Wow. That was just training. Sometimes it's not enthusiastic training. Hey, um if you don't mind a bit of a tangent, what what do you do? And feel free not to answer, but um but what do you do for work? I'm actually a software developer for the ah Australian Antarctic Division. I work on the Antarctic applications for sending people down to Antarctica for their science research. Oh, cool.
Speaker: Yeah, it's interesting. I get random things in that I have to fix or code or whatever. So it's just in front of a computer all day, which I think he helps with all the running. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Although just sitting in front of a desk all day can also be bad. But anyway, you're doing all the right things to combat that.
Speaker: Does that include any travel to Antarctica? No, no, they don't need developers down there. But I do get to go Tassie sometimes. The headquarters are just south of Hobart, butt so I get to go down there about every six months.
Speaker: and Nice. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. They're always doing stuff. And there's all different departments in there, so it's kind of, it's just interesting. It's one the more interesting coding jobs I've had.
Speaker: That sounds really interesting. what are your favourite trails down in Tassie? You probably don't get heaps of time down there, do you? No, I really only get to Hobart. And I did, actually, I did the Kanani-Wellington Trail, the loop one.
Speaker: I did before work one day at like 3am and realized partway through that I was way over what I should be doing because I was like running in shorts and long sleeve shirt. Like I'd come down from Central Coast. So was prepared to have a long sleeve shirt on.
Speaker: Then I hit the snow line and it starts snowing more. There was this complete blizzard, wide out. I couldn't see anything. I went for the trail I was trying to get on and I missed it just slightly. So I was using GPS off my watch.
Speaker: ended up on one that ran parallel and I tried to cut across to the correct trail, but I... fell in the snow and I couldn't get back up because it was really light and I don't know anything about snow anyway it turns out that's like a tree well and that's dangerous but it was only like a bush well so it was quite shallow um anyway I dragged myself back up got onto my correct trail and then came down off the mountain I was a bit chilly too because I was in shorts so it was well I didn't have any other running gear like what do I just rode shorts Yeah, my God. But it was, and there was like one part where my headlamp was acting a bit funny. I was like, oh, what's wrong with it? It was all covered in snow and I had to brush it off. And yeah, it was, it was interesting.
Speaker: Wow. Definitely. That's probably my favorite run there. um And then I just do ones. Was it the Rivulet track? I do that quite a bit because I'm staying in Hobart and that's quite nice.
Speaker: The Riviera track, nice. Yeah. and Just through South Hobart. There's a bit of bike track in it, but I found that if I go off to the side, there's like little trail bits as well. Yeah, yeah. Nice. Beautiful.
Speaker: Unfortunately, we probably should wind up and Lisa, well, you probably need to get back to work. But hey, thanks so much for joining us. That was fascinating and super fun, actually. Yeah, thanks. And now we're going to jump forward to October, 2025 to hear how Melissa's approach to training and competing has evolved and what lessons she's learned along the way.
Speaker: Thanks so much for joining us again, Melissa. It's been over two and a half years since you last chatted to Will. So I'm sure it's been a jam packed couple of years, but to kick us off, how are you today and whereabouts do we find you?
Speaker: I'm going good. I'm still on central coast, New South Wales. Uh, Yeah, I'm in my work lunch break recording this, so doing lots of running, obviously.
Speaker: Yeah. um Before we get to that, how is your work going? Are you still working um as a software developer for the Australian Antarctic Division? Yep, sure I am. I'm actually moving down to Tassie early next year.
Speaker: Oh, that's super exciting. Yeah, currently I'm just fully remote, but I'm going to head down there and run around. i've I've already registered for my first races down there. So it should be good.
Speaker: What's on top of the list when it comes to races in Lutruita? So I'm going to the Kanani Mountain Running Festival and they've got this immersion option so you could do the three races over three days. I'm like, that's perfect. That's exactly what i want. I just want to do all the races.
Speaker: Awesome. Cause we do that at the Pilliger as well, where can do all three events, but we call it the grand slam, but I feel like immersion is a much like nicer kind of way of, yeah, it's like, it's not necessarily about, I don't know, smashing them all out. It's about taking the time and, you know, I really like that. Exploring the area. Cause like you've got the Buffalo that has the grand slam too, but I really like, I like the immersion. It's like encouraging you to just get out there and enjoy all three of their races.
Speaker: Yeah, I really like that. I think we might need a name change because I think it's less about the ego and the kind of, you know, and more about the, like you said, just slowing down and taking your time and actually appreciating it all.
Speaker: Yeah, there are three different races. The first one's like a downhill one. So it's a kilometre of elevation descent. So I think it's about nine and a bit k. So you get in that coming off Kananyi. And then the second day, 66Ks, where you get to run around all the top of Kananyi.
Speaker: And then the third one is a foothills race. So anyway, I don't really know the areas. um um I've only run up there a few times. So i'm really looking forward to it because then I'll get to see all the trails and meet other runners. And yeah, might be a time for it. Yeah, free advertising.
Speaker: No, well, um that'll be amazing. One thing that does amaze me about Hobart is just how accessible the trails are and how close the mountain is and just how easy it is to go from feeling like you're in the middle of a city in the middle of nowhere. It's incredible.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. I've run that rivulet track that takes straight out of the city and up the mountain. It's fantastic. It's, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So I'll be, I'm actually work and where I'll be living is just a bit south of Hobart. So it's pretty accessible to get there. Yeah, nice. So how do you expect your work will change now that you're moving down to Tassie and obviously, you know, working in the office, but your day-to-day will basically be? I don't think it'll change at all.
Speaker: It'll be the same sort of thing. People will just be able to find me in person rather than getting like Teams requests. Yeah. Oh, that'll be a nice change. Yeah. It's more for the, I don't have to do it, but it's just for,
Speaker: the experience and don't know, somewhere different run, some actual mountains that are decent sized. Yes, definitely. They do have some pretty amazing runs, but then also hikes as well, which are incredibly technical and just, yeah, it's such a beautiful part of the world.
Speaker: Although the ocean is a lot colder. So are you ah are you a, you swimmer, Melissa? No, no. Um, I've, um, Yeah, I've just accepted I may not touch the water for a while. I don't do well with cold water. So yeah, that that could be quite a challenge. And also like just cold, like I don't think I have the right running gear for living down there.
Speaker: I'm going to have to do some research and yeah, probably get some more cold weather things. Definitely. Well, I'm sure if you head in to find your feet, they'll be able to sort you out and get you everything that you need. Yeah, no, they do a wonderful job and they'll know the Tassie climate inside out.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I probably just can't wear like t-shirt and shorts all year. Yeah, no, I think you might need a few a few thermals, that's for sure. It's sortable, it's sortable. um So like you said, it's been a massive two and a half years for you. Aside from your work, you've managed to squeeze in a lot of a lot of races, a lot of milers in there.
Speaker: Looking back, I guess since, you know, 2024, 2025 and halfway through 2026, is there anything that jumps out at you as one of the more memorable event experiences?
Speaker: Probably I did Irrational South, which was a 200 miler down um South Australia in the Flinders Ranges. And that was just, it was a different environment to what I've run in before.
Speaker: It was just, it was but spectacular. And I had like the worst luck where basically I got to these fantastic lookouts of a night and it's dark out there. So I sure saw it just darkness.
Speaker: And then the night after I finished, they actually had the Aurora Australis. So, you know, Yeah, except I'd finished by then. And so they're sending these photos like on top of these lookouts of a night of this like great glow. And I'm like, man, I just like got totally ripped off. Like I saw like a couple of the lookouts, but yeah. Anyway, the whole run was fantastic. That was just my luck. It wasn't anything to do with the race, but it was just, it was a whole other experience. Like your proper remote out there and the surface and,
Speaker: Just everything. So it's such a harsh environment to be in for a few days. And it was good race. What time of the year is the irrational South? Oh, they've actually, that was the last one they ran of it. And it was in, it was in April when I did it. So still pretty warm. I imagine in those yeah it was hot those areas. yeah Even overnight it was, i I was still raining a t-shirt overnight. Like it was warm and all the stars and stuff like, cause you're so remote.
Speaker: It's spectacular. and ah And I also go a bit sick. Most of it's on the Heisen Trail. So it's through dry creek beds. I did not want to see another dry creek bed for quite long time. They sound fun, but they're actually quite rocky. and But yeah, it was it was a good race.
Speaker: The idea of doing a miler, let alone 200 miler, seems quite a long way away. But just the opportunity to experience that landscape would just be incredible. um Not that you have to be running through it to do it, but um yeah, I think I haven't spent much time in the Flinders Ranges and I see that it keeps popping up on my socials feed as one of Lonely Planet's top picks of places to go in the world. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Yeah, like you can just do this heaps of day hikes and be in the Eisen Trail. Like you could actually just hike it. They've got huts and campsites. I did visit a few campsites because they they had like the toilets and stuff there. And so I'm just like, there was a couple of spots where I was quite remote. I just needed a stop for a few minutes. So I just wandered into like, wow, they're campgrounds and just have a little seat for a bit and,
Speaker: get some water and then move on again. Yeah, how fantastic. And have you, because it was last time we spoke, you'd um been over to the US to give, try your hand at the Barclay Marathons. Was there any kind of lessons that you took from that that helped you it during the Irrational South or events since?
Speaker: Not really, because it's, Just a league of its own really, isn't it? Yeah, it's a totally different environment. We don't have that sort of thing here. We don't have like the sort of forest here or the hills or it's a different sort of world. um Probably the only thing is maybe the navigation.
Speaker: still do a heap of like rogating and orienteering and stuff. And I suppose even in like your big hundreds and 200 milers, I'm not really worried about getting lost. Like if i it happens, it happens. You just sort it out and keep going.
Speaker: Was that a skill that you chose to get more experience in after or, you know, because you're doing those longer events or was it something that was always kind of part of your. enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. There's like local stuff. So I just got involved with it all back.
Speaker: It's an interesting one because I know that there seems to be quite a lot of um people getting lost or getting into trouble in the wilderness, especially down in Tassie of late. And, yeah you know, we have so much technology in our pockets, but often it's the OG kind of ways of navigation with a compass and ah and a topographical map that...
Speaker: ah really core to I guess, being able to read a landscape. And how do you feel about, i guess, for yourself, obviously, you see it as a necessary tool in your arsenal when you are heading out for those longer events, especially those that that are a bit more remote. But how would you frame it for other people in terms of making it worth their while to explore those hard skills a bit more and, you know, upskill when it comes so that way you can be more self-sufficient when you're out in these places? Yeah.
Speaker: I think the main thing is it ah teaches you not to panic. So you go orienteering, you go rogany and it's off trail. Like you're going into dense bush. You're basically doing what you've always been told, like don't leave the trail. Don't do this.
Speaker: Those sports actually say do leave the trail. You need to go do this. And so, Along that way, you get lost. Like it always happens. we were There was a recent event and we just got lost on the side of Mount Sugarloaf. Like it was down in the bottom and it started raining and everything was flooding. We couldn't tell what was water course, what wasn't. It was just too wet.
Speaker: And we didn't panic. Like there's no point in panicking. We just took a compass bearing and we just headed basically for safety and then figured we'd sort it out once we did. And so it's that. So a lot of it is actually just the confidence in you were lost.
Speaker: You've made a mistake. You're now lost. And what do you do about this? Like, don't panic, don't keep moving forward, actually come to a complete stop. Use whatever resources you have, whether it's like the map on your watch, the map on your phone.
Speaker: If you have a map and compass, like I don't really use them outside of row gaining and orienteering. I more use a GPX or I'll use like a topo map on my phone. But because I've done these other sports, I can read that topo map and I can say, oh, there's this contour lines, I could do this, or there should be this trail here, or that trail's not existing or whatever.
Speaker: And then just get yourself to safety. And it's all a learning experience and then oh yeah and then you kind of, I guess, flex that muscle and get more confident in your own skills. So that way when you do get lost, you're like, okay, I know what to do in this scenario. it's like, oh, that's fine. I'll just, I could probably do this and that and you won't end up on a cliff face or something.
Speaker: And because you do do so many races, I wonder, I see you've done ultra trial Kosciuszko a bunch of times. Yes. Twice, I think. Twice, yeah. I think it's only been around two or maybe three years. it's the first year because I did Coast to Cozzy and I could, they were only like a week apart.
Speaker: So I did it its second year and last year. Because I know that that, well, it's the same with all events, but particularly those in the, I guess, the summer months that are in the alpine environments, it can be such a varied forecast. I know, you know, one year at Cozzy it was snowing and then other years it's really hot.
Speaker: How do you factor those kind of variations into your training, keeping in mind you are on the central coast and soon you'll be down in Tassie, so that will be a whole other kettle of fish. But, yeah, how do you kind of, I guess, factor in the,
Speaker: the growing inconsistency of climate when it comes to preparing for these ultra, like the milers and the ultra marathons. I just run regardless. So here, if it's raining, you go running.
Speaker: If it's hot and sunny, you go running. Like, I think it just, it'll just come into play. The weather's variable here too. So if I'm training all the time, I'm going to get variable weather here and it's variable when I race. And then because you've trained it, you just accept it. Like in COSI both years, we had big storms hit that I did it.
Speaker: The first year we were actually quite remote. i was with a little group of guys and there was like lightning and thunder. And apparently of the race had been paused, but we'd had no reception. We were like, we were a long way between aid stations.
Speaker: And so we didn't find out until like we came we were almost at the next day in stage. It's like, oh, well, it but it was quite like drastic. And the second year we got, i got stuck at Cozzy itself.
Speaker: They paused the race. So I got to spend an hour and a bit just to hang it out there. So yeah, you kind of, that's just what the race is. Like you can't get hung up on it. Like there were some people were really worried about times or,
Speaker: um particularly the 100k's we'd hit the back of the pack and their sweepers had caught them and so they're kind of a bit worried they're going to get cut off now but they weren't like the race will adapt to it and everyone's in the same playing field it was tricky though when because then when we got set free from our location we ended up well in the back of the pack of the 100k so it actually made the next section quite slow overtaking on like that cheese grater Which, but that's just what it is. That's the race. You just got to go with it. Like you can't get stuck on these things.
Speaker: You just got to move forward. And in terms of actually prepping for the race, I just have more stuff in my drop bags and yeah, just prepare to get wet. Yeah, totally. Wet or hot or anything in between, hey? Anything. Yeah, yeah. So if it's hot, I'll, I mean, we got access to water at the aid stations, but I'll pack like ginger beer or something cool me down or yeah, it's it's just basically trying to factor in as much as you can.
Speaker: I guess it's easy to become one of those people who's like, oh, it's too hot or it's too cold or, you know. It's the thing, like if you do that with your training, then you're never going to be out or it's too early or it's too late or just if you're training to train, just train.
Speaker: And one thing that amazes me about you, Melissa, is just your consistency in terms of, um You know, you're obviously working full time and then also doing a lot of these long and longer races, 100, 200 miles.
Speaker: What's the secret to consistency and longevity and how do we, you know, how do you do it? Oh, I don't really know. I think I just dug myself this hole where now I just have to run, but I kind of enjoy it.
Speaker: So I don't know. I don't really dwell on it too much because i then I think you can get kind of It's not like about a positive or negative mindset. It's just this is just what I do and I just accept that and do that and that's it.
Speaker: With your training, do you go like, are all weeks kind of the same or do you go through blocks? or Yeah. It will get tailored when I'm training for something specific. um So like if I'm doing, what was one? I did Cape Cape over in WA, which is a great race. That was a new 100 miler.
Speaker: so I was doing a lot more sand running for that, which it turned out wasn't particularly useful because ah their coastline's limestone and it it doesn't have hard sand. It was like quick sand. When I first hit, I was so conf confused as to where to run on this sand before accepting. I just had to run the soft sand.
Speaker: But yeah, so stuff where it's like that, I'll real train like extra sand or if it's super hilly race, I'll go up the Wadigans and train a lot up there for hills and stuff. It's kind of just tweaking the training a bit.
Speaker: Yeah. And I guess how do you choose what events you do? Obviously you like to try new events like the Cape to Cape and traveling for those, but do you like going back to the same events year on year or do you try and, you know, i add a few new ones to the mix to see what else is out there?
Speaker: So if I really like the race, I'll go back. So like Human Hobble, I really like that race. So I've done that one five times. But I'm happy they bring back the 100 miler. It's got new owners now, so they've only got 100 cac.
Speaker: But, you I'll wait. But, yeah, I like anything that's in areas I haven't run before and if the race looks interesting and it's in location, I kind of like being free to enter anything that takes my fancy.
Speaker: Yeah. i don't I don't just race for the sake of racing. I actually like to do something that's interesting. From your perspective, what are the kind of key components that make a race good in your world?
Speaker: In a location, it's bit different. Somewhere I haven't been before. If someone else I know has run it and they've told me like, this is a great race, that one, that gives it pretty big tick. They're probably the main things actually. And then it's just timing if I don't have anything else on around that time. And I've also had this goal for like the past couple of years. I want to do UTMB.
Speaker: So I've been collecting stones to go in the lottery, which is why I did COSI and UTA. Anyway, then I got entry anyway via UTA this year. So I get to do UTMB next year.
Speaker: Oh, how exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I've been wanting to do it for a while, actually ages ago. And then pre COVID I had it in my heart mind, but it was a bit too expensive. um But now i there was a backyard ultra in Sydney that offered some prize money and I specifically went in it to get the prize money.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, it is a huge outlay in terms of time and money and dedication and seeing some of the Aussie runners that went over this year and you know, DNF just breaks your heart for knowing of all the hours money. It's training.
Speaker: So all of it because it's such a long way and such an expensive endeavour to do to actually take the time off work, go over there. So anyway, that's one of that's my probably main race for next year. i've got a couple.
Speaker: So how's your approach? You know, the hills of the French and Swiss Alps aren't anything quite like, well, Tassie is probably a good place to start in terms of training. yeah. So, um yeah, how will you adjust your your plan in the lead up to August 2026 around UTMB?
Speaker: Just a huge amount of hills. So at the moment, I'm going to there's a backyard ultra in Melbourne in May um called Melbourne Front Yard Ultra. Don't why went with front yard, but he did.
Speaker: ah And it's got some prize money if a woman takes out the Australian record or the international record. So I'm doing that just to try and take those records to get some more prize money to put towards UTMB. So currently I'm training for that. i love it. And I'll also start training for UTMB when I get to Tassie.
Speaker: It's interesting, isn't it? Why is it that that the the backyard or front yard ultras in this case, why do they have more prize money? Like, is it, you know, it'd be nice to see some of the other races have, have money, but you know, being on the events organization side ourselves, we know just how,
Speaker: That's a good question, actually. Unviable. Or you know how difficult it is? But at the same time, it obviously attracts people, which makes sense because running is a very expensive hobby, especially the amount of time. And when you throw in races like UTMB, how can you make it a bit more yeah viable for your amateur runner who's trying to keep up with the sponsored athletes? Yeah, yeah. um That's good point, actually, because it is. like The Backout Ultras have had the biggest prize money, I think, out of all the races. I don't know. UTA, I think has some prize money, but yeah, maybe it's because they have limited winners. Like you'll have some, not all offer prize money to women.
Speaker: Sometimes it's just the last feature, which tends to be a bloke, which is a different thing. So possibly that it's the same amount, just split less or just, lower running costs.
Speaker: I don't know if they're cheaper to run. You're in one yeah location with one fixed hub and everyone's just running this very set loop. Like Melbourne's around a park. And when I did the one in Sydney, it was around Sunai Showground. Like it's a much smaller place where you've only got one large set up and you're booking that area for that time.
Speaker: So I don't know if that's it. And the entry fees are still fairly comparable to like ah another ah hundred k race. So so you're still paying a lot of money to go in them. And how do you train for a backyard ultra?
Speaker: At the moment, I'm having to do these Saturday afternoon speed sessions, which I'm not enjoying. ah I've been pretty grumpy with them. So it's it's a lot of back-to-back running. I run it weird times a day, just time on the feet mostly.
Speaker: I'm sure it'll get longer and longer as I get closer to it. But it's it's just time on feet because it's not the only speed I need is so I have time to sleep. um Yes. Yeah. That's it. Like it's not really. Yeah. Don't think it counts as sleep. Does it? when it's It'll be like 10 minutes max. Like I'm not a fast enough runner each lap to get more than that.
Speaker: And have you got your, um, your crew dialed in? Cause I feel like that's the key component as well. No, I have not. um That's in the to-do list because I don't, that it's it's Melbourne, which I don't really like, I know people on the coast, but yeah, i' I'm sure I'll figure something out.
Speaker: Well, I'll put the shout out here if anyone's down in Melbourne and wants to help Melissa out. I recently watched the video that Akana and Callum Hockey made when they crewing Phil Gore back at, I can't remember, i think it was Dead Cow Gully.
Speaker: Dead Cow Gully, yeah. Yeah, but it was great to just say, you know, learn from the from the master and what his, you know, routine is at the end of every lap and during the lap and all that kind of stuff because I think that it's a very long time for you for you but then for your crew as well and it has to be a well-oiled machine. and Yeah, it definitely does The runner too, they're out of it.
Speaker: Like I'm like a drunk person that can just run in circles. like but Exactly, yeah. My brain's not working right. I need someone to give me water, give me food, tell me to sit down. like It's almost like you have to have a pet runner that's an idiot.
Speaker: Well, totally. And I know that with um Phil, like he had people working externally who weren't there on spreadsheets working out how much was in and out. And it's it's just amazing how when you get into the higher leagues, if you will, just how how much of a science it is because it's easy to look at, oh, yeah, you just go out and run a lap and it's all very, you know.
Speaker: But, yeah, it's there's so much work and thought that goes into it. It's truly remarkable. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. I tend to, it's all my races tend to be very well planned more than it probably comes across. Like I'll document and calculate out between aid stations and what I'll need and when, and what's on that section of the course. And it's the same with backyard ultra. Like even when I did Sydney, I had it all broken down and different people were helping because Sydney was very convenient for people to come down to.
Speaker: yeah exactly say It looks rough, but it it never really is. It's yeah. It's as calculated as it can be while factoring in a lot of variables. Yeah, exactly. You never know what the, clo you know, what the weather will do or how you're feeling, any other how your gut and all that will, will be on the day.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's also like the back out ultras, I reckon they're hard because in a normal ultra, you can be really messed up and you can take 20 minutes out and just have a nap or just, you can kind of reset yourself back out ultra. You just can't do that. Like you have to get back out there and run again.
Speaker: You have to be able to, everything has to be completely managed. Yeah. If it weren't for the prize money, do you think you'd still give them a go? Like are they fun in their, you know, in their insanity or you're more of a, you know, give you 200 miles kind of vibe? Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, they have their place and I get it like, and people like their track races too, it but it fits into like the track race category for me. And um I don't really run for the sake of running. I run for the experience and the adventure of it. So I much prefer the 100 and 200 miles where I'm somewhere remote and,
Speaker: you know, relying on myself. But I get it. Like people absolutely love these and they love the track races and they love seeing how far they can run. And I fully respect that. It's just not why I run, but I can make myself do it.
Speaker: Especially if it's like to achieve a bigger goal. So I'm fine with that. Plus I always, I don't mind seeing how long I can run for. I suppose it's like comes down to motivation. It's not a big enough motivation for me to actually achieve my best. I need something else in there.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a stepping stone to stepping stone to something else. So for me, that is that's my motivation. And I can use that to fuel me because when you're out there for that long, you have to have some strong motivators to keep going.
Speaker: Apart from, I guess, getting to the start line and in my mind, something like UTMB, that's an accomplishment in itself, let alone the actual, you know, 180 kilometres. But what are your key motivations? I feel like you've been doing trail running and ultra running for long enough that they must be extremely strong or have they evolved?
Speaker: Like what is it that gets you out of bed in the morning and signing up to all these events? For the events itself, it's generally... Um, initially it's just the experience of it. Like I'm enjoying the run and then it will become harder as the race goes on.
Speaker: And eventually it'll get to this stage where it's like, you've come all this way, shut up, keep running. It's like, you've got to get to the finish line. I'll just use that as a motivator of like, you've put in all this effort. Now you need to finish it.
Speaker: But I also enjoy it along the way. It's just, that's when it's a real low that I want to quit and I don't want to do it anymore. And I'm, I'm over it, but I just make myself keep going.
Speaker: Yeah. And do you listen to music or podcasts? What keeps you entertained out on the trails during those long slogs? Horror audio books. that I've never heard that one before.
Speaker: it's great. I was freaking myself out actually on Sunday morning. I was out the middle of nowhere and I heard these church bells and I'm like, what the hell? Like I'm nowhere. It's 2.33 in the morning.
Speaker: And it's like this old convict road. I'm like, oh, don't know what this is. Anyway, my brain went ghost church. It's definitely a ghost church. Cause I just made listening to this into this audio book and I started to run for my life.
Speaker: Then I remember there's like a monastery actually up the hill. It was, I don't know, they were doing something and I calmed down, but it does work. There you go. Yeah. You freak yourself out and then you're just like, I got to keep moving to get out of here.
Speaker: That's it. Yep. That's totally it. Um, some books work better than others. Uh, Yeah, so mostly that. also do music, so I do like terrible sing-along where I'll just, that's when I'm falling asleep.
Speaker: I just sing along to music, but badly. Yeah, well, yeah, we've all been, well, I could definitely love a good sing-along out in the middle of the bush when there's no one but the birds to hear you I can actually come across people there, it's kind of embarrassing, but...
Speaker: But, yeah, like it's got to, yeah. So, yeah, mostly horror audiobooks and terrible single one. I love it. Love it. Well, we're almost at time, Melissa. Was there anything else that I guess when you were reflecting on our conversation from two and a half years ago that came up that you wanted to mention or should we ah leave it at horror audiobooks to close us out?
Speaker: think I'm fine to leave it at that.
Speaker: So good. Well, all the best for the move down to Luchuita. It's great timing with UTMB somewhat around the corner. There'll be no shortage of technical mountains for you to climb up and down, which is super exciting.
Speaker: But all the best for the summer, whatever you've got ahead. I'm sure there'll be plenty of things on the on the schedule, but it's good to hear you've got that UTMB entry secured so you can, ah you know, go off the stop chasing stones, which I know many people do. Well, yeah, they're just...
Speaker: yeah i was also Yeah, I'm up to like 20 now. was on a mission. I tried. I didn't make the lottery with 12, so I had to get more. Yeah, well. It's tough. Well, you earned it. So congratulations. And thank you so much for your time today. It's great to catch up. And, yeah enjoy your last last summer on the Central Coast.
Speaker: Thanks. Thank you. And that's the finish line of our 11th trail chat. Thank you, Melissa, for taking the time and being such an inspiration to those juggling the nine to five and big outdoor adventure goals.
Speaker: If you'd like to follow along on Melissa's journey to Luchawita and beyond, you can follow her at Melissa underscore trail runner. If you'd like what you've heard and would like to stay in touch with For Wild Places, then follow us online at For Wild Places.
Speaker: Subscribe to our newsletter or become a member. You can do all of these things via our website or via the show notes. Thanks again for joining us. We are stoked to have you here. Thank you to Melissa for taking the time, to Lara Hamilton for our theme music and to Nico for editing this episode.
Speaker: Until next time, happy trails, folks. And as always, thank you for taking the time for Wild Places.
