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E150: Kurt Sova
5.2k Plays3 years ago
Kurt Sova was the 17-year-old who could always make people smile, either by being his responsible, caring self or by cracking a joke. But on October 23rd, 1981, Kurt was doing something out of character; he was skipping school and drinking the day away. That night, the drinking continued at a local party in Newburgh Heights, Ohio-- a party from which Kurt never made it home. Then, five days later, his body was discovered in a ravine only 500 yards awar from where he was last seen. With odd occurrences and recollections added to a faulty investigation, Kurt’s family was left wondering what really happened? And who can they trust is telling the truth?
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Transcript
Transition from Summer to Autumn
00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
00:00:06
Speaker
As summer slowly slips away into autumn, I find that you are either excited to welcome the cold or cling on to summer with all your might, willing it to stay just a little longer. If I know Allison, I know she's the latter, holding on to summer and warm weekends spent at the lake. And if she knows me, she knows I'm pushing summer out the door in anticipation of chilly days and snow falling from the sky.
00:00:30
Speaker
For me autumn or fall as I call it starts a season of rebirth. As the leaves turn colors and fade then die instead of making me sad it brings me comfort to know that it's only temporary. Someone once said quote autumn shows us how beautiful it is to let things go end quote.
00:00:48
Speaker
And since hearing that, I often think of how earth seasons often reflect my own personal seasons. Much like leaves turning brilliant colors of red and orange and yellow, I often find myself clinging to certain moments of life, waiting until the last minute to let go. Part of me fears the unknown of waiting for the rebirth of my seasons to begin, but another part of me is ready to let go and start to heal.
00:01:09
Speaker
Some seasons are easier to let go of in life. Buying a new car or a new house, for instance, is much easier to emotionally manage than changing jobs or moving cities. Other seasons pass slowly and reappear when you think you've moved into another chapter. Losing a loved one, struggling with health issues, or financial struggles are some of the seasons that we have that seem to last the longest. Often times, we feel that we have to limit the time that we're allowed to grieve.
00:01:35
Speaker
that grief is a textbook and that it should last X amount of time, but no one person grieves the same. Quote, no person has the right to condemn you on how you repair your heart or how long you choose to grieve because no one knows how much you're hurting. Recovering takes time and everyone heals at his or her own pace, end quote.
00:01:55
Speaker
For me, love and grief go hand in hand. The more you love someone, the more you grieve their death. Walking past their picture or driving past their favorite restaurant brings tears to your eyes and opens up a wound that will never truly heal.
Introduction to Kurt Sova's Cold Case
00:02:08
Speaker
You're forever changed and forever broken. This is the story of Kurt Soba.
00:02:48
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:02:57
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families with each case. We encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:03:25
Speaker
Okay, Allison, I can't remember how many episodes now we have been doing the love notes at the end of the episode. Is this the fourth one? I think it's about three or four. Three or four? Yeah. So those of you that are hoping to hear your little love note know that we are still doing those. It's just going to come at the end. Right.
00:03:46
Speaker
So we're going to start off today talking about Kurt, who lived with his parents in Newburgh Heights,
Kurt Sova's Disappearance
00:03:52
Speaker
Ohio. And that is a smaller town just outside of Cleveland. Okay. And I have never heard of this town before. Obviously I've heard of Cleveland, but I just quickly googled it and it is relatively small. A population at the last census, I think of like 2,300 people.
00:04:11
Speaker
So tiny. Again, I mean, Maggie has said it before, we tend to be in small towns. I know. And sometimes I wonder if it really is a small town thing or if... Well, I know that we found the research on it, but then I'm wondering, maybe it just happens so frequently in large towns that the ones that get the most publicity are small town crimes. That's what I want to tell myself to make myself feel better about living in a small town. Right.
00:04:40
Speaker
right we're still safe but okay right we're good yeah from the looks of it newberg heights seem to be like a working man's town nothing really fancy just an everyday american town um it seemed to be a welcoming place and they have on their
00:04:59
Speaker
city web page different councils that people could join for citizen input and they have like people to all these different places of serving so that public or I guess the voices of the public are heard. That's pretty cool. And also too and on their website their mayor left this message so I feel like she kind of sums up
00:05:24
Speaker
what this town is like. She said, quote, yeah, welcome to the village of Newburgh Heights, Ohio, a welcoming community where people of various backgrounds come together to enjoy affordable, family friendly and quality living with excellent public safety, as well as easy downtown and interstate accessibility established in 1904, where residential community nestled south of Cleveland and both several green spaces, Audubon certified nine hole golf course and beautifully maintained century old homes.
00:05:54
Speaker
Come visit the village and explore our parks, including a 59 acre Washington reservation." So I mean like, you know, a cute little town, like pristine, quaint. Yeah, all of those little adjectives. But it was in this cute little quaint town that tragedy struck one night in October of 1981.
00:06:18
Speaker
Kurt, Sova, and actually, I do have to say, this for me, I thought would be pretty like, well, duh. But in some of my research, it said that Kurt was the oldest of four siblings, and in some of it, it said the youngest. But I found an article that his, like where his brother's talking, and he said that Kurt was the youngest. So that's what we're gonna go with.
00:06:42
Speaker
So Kurt was the youngest of four siblings, all brothers. And from all accounts, Kurt was this ideal child. He was really well behaved. He was responsible. He helped around the house, even with his other siblings when he could. He was a very good student. He was dedicated to doing his best in school. He was funny. He made people laugh.
00:07:05
Speaker
And I think all of us listening today can agree that for a 17 year old, all of those compliments are pretty amazing because not all 17 year old boys or girls are like that. Right, right. And I think especially the youngest, they get a bad rap for not necessarily being the most responsible and things like that. So I think Kurt just proves them all wrong.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, most of the time I think younger siblings are more considered more free spirited and kind of wild. But he just wasn't really like that. He was really close to his family. And like I said, did anything that he could to help his siblings or his parents out.
00:07:46
Speaker
According to Uncovered, his mother reported that Kurt was really never in any trouble, not with the neighbors, not in school, not with the police. And Kurt's oldest brother, Kevin, described Kurt as, quote, fun-loving, very funny, a comedian, loved doing sports. And in another report, Kevin said, quote, Kurt might've been the most talented of us all, end quote. Aw, what a sweet thing for an older brother to say. I know, the older brother's statements
00:08:15
Speaker
pull up my heart throughout this whole thing.
00:08:19
Speaker
And because Kurt was like such a good kid at home, such a good kid at school, and he had such a good relationship with his family, they allowed Kurt a little more leeway because he was so trustworthy. So his curfew was a little bit later than traditional families might have, you know, kind of thought was okay for a kid that was in high school. His parents just knew that if he said, you know, I'm going to be home at 1030, that he would be home
00:08:49
Speaker
at 10 30. And yeah, I really identify with that with Kurt because I never had, you know, the 20 questions that my friends would have if we were going out somewhere, I would basically just say, like, Hey, mom, we're going to the movies. I'll be back at whatever time. I'll see you then. And she was fine with it because she knew we were basically weenies and didn't do anything we weren't supposed to do.
00:09:13
Speaker
Right. I was the exact same. Yeah. I'm almost like, nope, she's going to hang out with her nerd friends. Go right ahead. Exactly. They'll be back by nine. It's okay. Yeah. And I think Kurt, not that his friends were nerds, but I think his parents just trusted him enough to know like, okay, he says he'll be there.
00:09:33
Speaker
and he'll be back, then we believe him. And so Kurt did that on that October day. He just said, you know, hey, mom, after school, I'm planning on going to the carnival with some friends because, you know, it's around Halloween and I guess there was a carnival in town, maybe like a festival top thing. So what day in October was it? And that he would be home later. So this is Friday, October 23rd.
00:09:59
Speaker
Okay, 81. So yeah, you're about a week before Halloween. Yeah. Yeah. And so he says, you know, I'm going to this carnival, I'll be back home probably around 10 or so when his parents are like, Yep, have fun. See it tonight. Okay. But little did they know that what Kurt did on that October day was far from what they would consider ordinary Kurt behavior.
00:10:26
Speaker
I read I know but I feel like it's just it's a teenage 17 year old. Yeah, it is.
00:10:35
Speaker
Kurt reportedly skipped school that day and many people said that he hung out like near or in the parking lot of a local liquor store and he actually spent quite a good amount of time there trying to convince people as they went in to buy him alcohol which is like quintessential 17 year old boy. Right and at least if he was there all day it means many people told him no.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah. Good point. But despite the fact that his parents think he's at school, he's actually at the liquor store and he does finally convince somebody to buy him some 190 proof Everclear. And I don't obviously know a lot about alcohol. So I had to Google that.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, I want to listen. You slow down. You think that we're kidding. Maggie and I are such rule followers that any time we talk about drugs or alcohol, we have to Google what it means. Yeah, we did not have any crazy, like rebellious phases. That was not us. No, no, it was not. So so I did Google.
00:11:52
Speaker
What is that? So what I found out is that 190 proof Everclear is about 95% pure alcohol. So I feel like essentially like rubbing alcohol pretty much. Oh my gosh, that's disgusting. That sounds disgusting. Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
I don't know how this would taste good. I'm assuming you probably drink it with something else, but it's potent enough that it would get a person very good and drunk in probably a short amount of time. Is this why people hold their noses when they take shots of stuff? Cause it tastes really bad. I don't think so. Cause my mom used to always tell me when I took cough syrup to hold my nose when I took it and it wouldn't taste as bad. So I'm assuming that's probably why. Yeah. But it still tasted bad. So yeah.
00:12:43
Speaker
So it didn't work very well. I feel like that does too. So it didn't work very well. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:48
Speaker
Reports state that he spent the day drinking at a friend's house before venturing out to attend the carnival. And I did not find anywhere where that friend is named. But if we can guess anything about Kurt from the little bit that we have spent talking to him, while it may be somewhat normal for teens to ask legally aged drinking citizens to buy them alcohol, it wasn't normal for Kurt
00:13:15
Speaker
to spend the good majority of the day drinking Everclear. His friends did say that, like, obviously the Kurt that they
Challenges in the Investigation
00:13:23
Speaker
knew wasn't 100% the Kurt that his parents knew. And we talked about that before. Yeah, the face you put on for, you know, like, I'm sure even though I'm not worldly in terms of knowing the things like drugs and alcohol,
00:13:41
Speaker
In my life, I've made poor decisions, and I would not want to present those poor decisions to my parents or my grandparents. You know what I mean? But my friends know. And so, yeah, I just, I get that.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't think that that makes him a bad person. Like you said, I mean, even if it's not, you're sneaking and drinking alcohol, you're sneaking and doing something you wouldn't want your parents to find out about. And his friends did say that occasionally they would drink some, um, or maybe like smoke a cigarette or something like that, but it was never like really enough that they would get wasted. So it was a little bit out of the normal that Kurt
00:14:23
Speaker
had spent the majority of the day drinking Everclear. So that was a little different.
00:14:32
Speaker
As Kurt headed toward the carnival, he actually ran into, and I don't know if he was walking, driving, riding his bicycle, I did not find that either, but he ran into a friend named Samuel Carroll, who was heading toward a Halloween party. And like I said, I don't know if this carnival Kurt was heading to was something the town brought in as like maybe a fall festival type thing, or if it was, you know, like a church put it on, or if it was something random. Okay.
00:15:00
Speaker
But I know in our area, kids live for county fairs and like those fall festival things that they know happen year after year. Yeah. So I'm assuming that it's something that had been in town for a while because I think if it was newly put up, Kurt would not have so easily said, oh, yeah, I'm just going to skip out on the carnival and I'll come to the Halloween party with you. Right. Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:15:30
Speaker
So Samuel doesn't invite him to the Halloween party and Kurt's like, yep, I am going to join you at this party. Um, the two boys, probably because there was a lot of people at this party. I know it was hosted by mutual friends. I'm not exactly sure how the friends looped in together, but they at least knew of the people's house that they were going to, if that makes sense. Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
So the two go to the party that's at a duplex on Harvard Avenue, and it's about two miles from where Kurt lived with his parents. So all right there together. And like I said, the party was filled with a lot of people from their town. According to trace evidence, people had also driven the two hour and 45 minute drive from Detroit
00:16:29
Speaker
To this party in Newburgh Heights. What and how would they even know about this party? See that's some of my questions when we talk about things that happen later on I don't know if maybe the people that lived in the duplex Had family that lived in detroit and they were like hey We're having this really raging party in our town of 2,000 people come on down like
00:16:53
Speaker
I don't know. There had to have been. But I feel like something, yes. Something else had to be going on, I think. There had to have been something that drew people there because even if you just said we're having a raging party in a small town, I don't think people are going to drive nearly three hours to come to it. So I don't know what the draw was, but there was something.
00:17:16
Speaker
I don't yeah, and I don't think this was like before social media. So people weren't posting on Instagram and TikTok party, you know, so there had to be more than just hey, this is a typical high school party. Come on, let's go.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, interesting. And having people from out of town and so many older people in attendance makes me question, like you said, if there was more going on than what we saw on the surface. And also the people that later came forward and to speak said that some of the people at the party appeared to be more than just intoxicated.
00:17:56
Speaker
And Samuel claimed that Kurt was so drunk that he got sick at the party and the owner of the duplex was like, you have to get him outside because he starts from what I read throwing up. So he's like, you got to take him out. Nobody wants that. And so, yeah, nobody wants vomit.
00:18:15
Speaker
No. And so I read that Samuel did get Kurt to go outside, you know, hoping that some fresh air would kind of help so sober him up a little bit.
00:18:27
Speaker
A lot, so again, half of the research said that just a friend took Kurt outside, but then like trace evidence and unsolved mysteries, they specifically said it was Samuel. So I'm going to assume that it was Samuel. And Samuel was a friend. So it could just be that those other sources were just, they didn't want to name him, but yeah, Samuel.
00:18:50
Speaker
So he does get them outside, you know, in the hopes that he'll kind of sober up a little bit in the Trace Evidence podcast that I listened to on Kurt's case. And actually, if you listen to Trace Evidence, this Kurt's case is their very first episode. Okay. So it's their episode one.
00:19:11
Speaker
but then he revisits the case like on episode 40 and it's a little bit longer because he said that he felt he didn't have time to give it the attention that it needed so he revisited the case. And then I think he actually did another update on it because there was more recent developments on it. So there's a lot on trace evidence about Kurt's case as well.
00:19:41
Speaker
But in that episode 40 episode of that, Samuel says that he and Kurt spend about 20 to 30 minutes talking, like leaning up against the fence, because Kurt is so drunk and they're just trying to sober up. But again, we're in Northern Ohio. It's the end of October. And just like in Kentucky, October days can still be pretty warm. But once the sun goes down, it gets chilly outside. And that was the case here.
00:20:10
Speaker
So the two both came with jackets, like they had carry jackets in anticipation of it getting cold outside. But obviously they didn't have them on when they were in the party. And so Samuel says they actually stood outside long enough that he got really chilly. And he says, you know what, just wait right here. I'm going to go real fast. I'm going to run inside, grab our jackets and I will come back outside and we can sit out here for a little bit longer. And he reported, he went back into the duplex to get those jackets.
00:20:40
Speaker
And he left Kurt by the fence on the property. And I mean, to be fair, the party host said he needs to be out of here. So maybe Samuel's like, you know what? It's best if you just stay out here, I'll go in and get him. Yeah. And if Kurt is as drunk as what Samuel is leading us to believe, then that probably was for the best because he may not have been able to, you know, get in and get out quickly if he's that intoxicated.
00:21:11
Speaker
And I didn't read anywhere if Samuel was also drunk, but I'm assuming that he at least drank something, but I don't know if he was like super drunk, but he reported that he left Kurt alone for only two to three minutes. That was all the time it took him to go inside, get the jackets and get back out to the fence line. So,
00:21:36
Speaker
I'm wondering if it was truly three minutes or if it was one of those instances where you're like, I only turned my back for a second. And then they were gone, you know, like a little bit of an understatement. Mm hmm. Yeah. Was it three minutes or was it 10? Right. If you're not looking at a clock, it could easily feel like three minutes when it was really, like you said, 10 or 15. Yeah.
00:22:03
Speaker
And I'm like, cause I do that in the morning, I'll be getting ready and I'm like, all right, I put my makeup on. And I'm like, in the next three minutes, you gotta be brushing your teeth or whatever. And then I'll look down and seven minutes have passed. Cause time just goes a lot quicker when you're not looking at the clock. Exactly. So either way, three minutes, 15 minutes, however long, when Samuel gets back outside, Kurt was nowhere to be seen. Had he wandered somewhere?
00:22:33
Speaker
But then you think it wouldn't be that far. Well, that's Samuel's initial thought. And that's what he told police is that he just thought Kurt maybe started walking somewhere. He said so he told police actually walked down some side streets. I checked a nearby parking lot thinking maybe he just wandered down the street. But he says, and I agree, if he is really only going three minutes, how far is a super drunk person going to get?
00:23:01
Speaker
Not very far. I feel that you would be able to see them wherever they're at. And so Samuel assumed the same thing and says in that amount of time, he wouldn't have got very far. He's had to have gotten in a car with somebody and left with someone in a vehicle. That's the only way he could be out of sight. And you know, if Samuel's inside and his back is turned to the door because he's looking for jackets, he wouldn't even notice if one of the party goers had left.
00:23:30
Speaker
You know what I mean? In that time. Yeah. And who knows where their jackets are. They could have been like in the bathroom or something. Right. Yeah.
00:23:40
Speaker
he says and that he just disappeared and i'm assuming that you could see a pretty far distance down the streets at this place because it's not like you know a mountainous area so i don't think your view is going to be impended by hills in your road um but he said he can't see anything and so he just assumed that kurt got into the car with someone or what we said perhaps more time passed than what he thought
00:24:09
Speaker
I think either one of those is a likely possibility. I do too. And I think, cause you know, timelines are so important when you're trying to piece together things. And I wish we had a more concrete time as to how long Kurt was actually outside. Cause I think that could make a big difference. Right. Cause did he have to basically get in the car with someone to disappear that quickly or
00:24:36
Speaker
would he have had time to walk on foot? You know, I think that's a big two different things. Yeah, absolutely. In an article about Kurt Zova that was on Unsolved Mysteries because they covered his story as well, Dorothy Kurt's mom had this to say, she said, quote, it was not like him to be gone
Family's Search Efforts
00:24:58
Speaker
overnight. It was not like him to say out after 10 or 10 30 at the latest, end quote.
00:25:04
Speaker
But it was so unlike Kurt because he was so late getting home that Dorothy had actually started looking for him because she was worried. So she actually gets out and kind of looks around to see if maybe he's walking home or something, but she can't find him. And so she's like, you know what, Dorothy, what are you doing? You've raised a good young man. He is very smart. He's very capable. He's going to be okay. You need to go to bed.
00:25:32
Speaker
He'll he'll get home later tonight because he's dependable. He's reliable. He's a good kid and she I mean and honestly, I think most Parents in her situation at that time because you can't call him, right?
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, I believe at the same time, what are you going to do? Yeah. And now he said that. I mean, that's now obviously she doesn't know where he is, but it totally makes sense to me if he's only two miles away from his parents' house that either he did attempt to start walking in what he thought was the right direction or if somebody says, hey, Kurt, let me go ahead and drive you home. You know, I hadn't thought about that because it had
00:26:17
Speaker
slipped my mind that he is only two miles away from home. And again, I'm wondering like how far this carnival was in relation to this party. You know, I'm wondering if it was all just in a couple mile radius. Like did he walk to everything? Cause like you said, maybe then he's just standing there and he's like, okay, I'm getting tired. I'm walking home or whatever. Yeah.
00:26:41
Speaker
I mean, because like us, like we said, we know he's a good kid. He's a good student. He valued his family. It doesn't sound like a kid who would just wander off willingly and not let his friends or family know what was going on. Like I don't see him just, you know, running away or something. Yeah, I don't either. According to unsolved mysteries, when Kurt had not returned home by the next morning. So when they wake up and he is not home, his parents are obviously worried.
00:27:08
Speaker
And they start calling around to friends to try to locate him. But each call resulted in the same result. Kurt was gone. No one could tell the family where he might be. So their calls turned up nothing. And so they're like, you know what? Let's start searching the neighborhood for him. But again, they found nothing. Trace evidence actually said that more than 40 people helped the family look for Kurt on that Saturday. So he goes missing on Friday.
00:27:36
Speaker
And more than 40 people are looking for him by Saturday, which is a lot in the small town, you know, yeah. And, and they actually did a pretty thorough search. They searched in ravines. They looked in alleys. They looked at parking lots. They looked in the usual places that like Kurt and his friends would have hung out.
00:27:56
Speaker
but they found nothing. And so finally on Sunday, October 25th, when there still is no sign of Kurt, Dorothy and Kurt's dad can go to file a missing persons report at the police station. And that same day, the three older brothers began hanging missing persons posters up over their town. Yeah. Cause as parents, you're probably thinking, you know, if he made a poor decision and was drunk or whatever,
00:28:24
Speaker
Maybe he crashed at a friend's house because he was too embarrassed to come home or, or something like that. So it makes sense that they were looking around first. And, you know, I think we could do a lot of, well, what if we had done this first or, you know, what if we had done that? You know, in all of life situations, there's always the what if, and my mom has talked about that.
00:28:49
Speaker
a lot with my brother when he passed away because she had offered to move the truck that ended up crushing his midsection. And so she said, you know, that's been a lot of her guilt is, you know, what if I had moved it, he would still be here and things like that. But she has said, you can't think about the what ifs because when you do, that drives you crazy. Right. And so you can't accept it because you don't, you can't know and you never will know.
00:29:18
Speaker
Right. But one thing Kurt's family knew from the beginning of the investigation is that the police were not thoroughly handling this case and I know we hear this a lot but when I was reading and listening to some podcasts on Kurt's case it's a little bit
00:29:44
Speaker
appalling. And that's a big word. Oh, wow. But it? Yeah. Yeah. So while the police did their investigation, and I almost want to use air quotes with investigation, the family also did theirs. Yep. According to uncovered
00:30:01
Speaker
Quote, the family continued their own investigation, doing everything they could to find Kurt. Dorothy confronted the residents of the duplex where the party was held. At first, they did not having a party or seeing Kurt, but after a pizza delivery person confirmed that he delivered a pizza to the duplex during the party the night Kurt disappeared, they changed their story and admitted to having a party and seeing Kurt in attendance. End quote.
00:30:25
Speaker
Okay, well, I'm already going to them. And I know they might deny it because of something else that was going on. But you would think, again, I don't understand people who are so much so concerned with covering their own butts, that they don't care about finding a missing person. That drives me insane. And I don't again, like,
00:30:50
Speaker
you know, we're not part of any type of circle like this, but I would think that it would not matter what I was doing. If it was illegal, if it was like sketchy, if it was something that my family would disown me for, if it could help potentially save a person, I think I would say, yeah, I was there and this is what I saw, you know? Yeah.
00:31:15
Speaker
but again not everybody's like that and the people that owned the duplex were not like that and they did not want to at first admit that there was anything happening at the duplex which again makes me think was there more going on than just a bunch of teenagers drinking at a Halloween party right but Allison Dorothy sadly had no idea what had happened occurred
00:31:41
Speaker
even after talking to the people at the duplex because they had no idea even what time he had left the party. So again, we have no real time stamp of when he was taken outside because he was sick and how long Samuel was inside and when Kurt actually like vacated the property.
00:32:03
Speaker
In fact, no one that was at the party could think of anything out of the ordinary where Kurt was concerned, only that he was drunk. So, you know, not that he was talking to random people that they had never seen before, or acting really suspicious, he was just drunk.
00:32:21
Speaker
And Allison if I know you and Rodney I know that the both of you if anything happened to any of your kids or your grandkids the two of you would stop at Absolutely nothing until you found something to help in your search. Oh, yeah for you what I would not stop
00:32:37
Speaker
I'm pretty stubborn in the way. And that's exactly how the Sova family was. They were not going to stop. They talked to it seemed like everyone they could possibly find that was at the party and willing to talk to them. Now there were some people who at first didn't want to come forward, but the longer Kurt is missing, more people do come forward with different types of stories.
00:33:00
Speaker
They returned to the duplex and actually picked up Kurt's jacket because it had been left there, even though the people said, oh yeah, he wasn't even here. But they give him, they give his jacket back to his parents. So did Samuel take it back inside when he couldn't find Kurt? I guess so. Cause he returns to the party. So I guess so. Oh, so. Hmm.
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, he searches for him. When he can't find him, he comes back in. And so I assume he just takes his jacket with him. Okay.
00:33:36
Speaker
Trace evidence said that the Sova family actually visited the duplex so many times that the people living there filed a report with the police and the police told the family they were to stop visiting and they had gotten all they could from the family living there and they didn't need to visit anymore. But police, and I think I mentioned this so I might repeat myself, but police, despite the fact that
00:34:01
Speaker
This is the last place courtesy alive that his jacket was left there, that there are eyewitnesses of him there that could say like who he was talking to or whatever. Yeah. Police never got a search warrant for the duplex. That makes no sense. Yep. They said that there was, you know, they got the statements from witnesses and that was all they really needed. They weren't going to find anything else there. Says who?
00:34:32
Speaker
Well, we're going to find out. On Monday, October 26th, one of several strange incidents would happen. So there are a couple of like, that's kind of weird things that happen. So on the 26th, a homeless man reportedly from Detroit,
00:34:56
Speaker
had been hanging out in front of one of the businesses that had Kurt's missing person poster in the window. And I think it was actually like a music shop or something like that. And while Kurt's family continued their search, the man actually approached the owner of the shop and essentially told them that they didn't need to hang Kurt's poster in the window any longer, that he would be found in two days. And when he was found, he would be dead.
00:35:27
Speaker
Okay, first of all, I'd be like, that's creepy. But then I would think like this person is not talking clearly because found in two days, how would this person know he'd be found in two days? You know what I mean? That seems kind of an off the wall statement.
00:35:47
Speaker
So apparently, this man was kind of known for telling big tales, reportedly, like he would steal shoes off dead people when they came into the Cleveland hospital. And, you know, a lot of people in town tried to avoid contact with him, but I just, like, we'll come back to him. But he's from Detroit and some of the things that he says later on, you're kind of like,
00:36:17
Speaker
Okay, Adam. Oh, this is a little weird. So I'll see what you say later. My opinion changes.
00:36:26
Speaker
Yes and like I said you may have noticed that I said the interaction with the homeless man was the first of several weird things that happened in the days following Kurt's disappearance and there were. Incident number two is remember that the party Kurt attended was at a duplex owned by some white friend. Right. And remember that the family
00:36:52
Speaker
had the duplex family had made a report regarding the Sova family to the police. Yeah, like harass basically. Yeah. Well, as it so happened, several days after current went missing, one of the residents of the duplex, who was, you know, where the party was held,
00:37:10
Speaker
actually said that there's someone sleeping on a cot in the basement of our duplex. He's telling us to Dorothy, or they are. And I think it might be Kurt, but I'm not 100% sure. Um, excuse me, sir. So first of all, well, I don't know if it's a sir, because as you said, one of the residents, but excuse me, sir, or ma'am.
00:37:35
Speaker
Number one, several days after he went missing and you're calling, this takes me back to our episode one and Brooklyn Farthing and the guy who drove her from the party
00:37:50
Speaker
talking to her sister and saying, yeah, she's missing, and then calling back and being like, oh, and there was a fire. I mean, this is one of those things like, where was this days ago that there's somebody there? And how do you not know if it's Kurt, if this is a friend? And that's what I was going to say.
00:38:11
Speaker
I guess several days may be an exaggeration. It was just a few days. We're within like a little window. And obviously one curse parents have been to your house. And I'm sure if you were like, who hurt? I don't know if they were at my party probably shows you a picture of him.
00:38:29
Speaker
I'm sure. There's missing persons flyers everywhere around your town. I don't think that you would be able to say it might be Kurt, but I'm not really sure. And if you thought that, how long have they been in your basement? Because Kurt's body is down on October 28th. So it's not like, yes. So it's not like there's a huge amount of time that passes.
00:38:56
Speaker
It's like, was he there or was he not? Because, you know, you filed a complaint on us and we're coming to check on our kid and he potentially was in your basement. And in a house that the police haven't searched.
00:39:13
Speaker
right and part of me says like why if it was him why was he in the basement was he scared he was going to get in trouble like did something happen like why didn't he come home but ken said and i actually read that i don't know if he was let into the home or if he broke into the home there were a couple different accounts but you know what ken either way oh kudos for you for checking it out i would honestly be busting down a door but
00:39:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'm pretty positive.
Discovery of Kurt's Body
00:39:42
Speaker
I think the majority of things said that they broke in, which if they did, then they did. And it good for him. But he said that he did find traces of someone living there. Like it looked that the caught had been slept in that night, but that he couldn't definitively say if it was Kurt because no one was there. And after days of searching Kurt's body was finally found on the 28th of October in 1981. Hold up though.
00:40:10
Speaker
Hold up. Kurt's body is found on October 28th. You told me that the homeless guy on October 26th said his body would be found in two days. And it was. Yeah. OK, tell me about how his body was found. That's a little weird, though.
00:40:33
Speaker
I think you'll make another connection with the homeless man in a second. So don't tell me he was missing shoes. Don't even tell me he was missing shoes, but keep on going. Keep on going. There are three kids who were playing by a furniture store warehouse and there's like a little ravine. When I say the word ravine, I'm picturing like, you know, between mountains and there's like rocks and things like that. But I think this was like a grassy ravine with like a little string.
00:41:04
Speaker
And this ravine was only about 500 yards away from the duplex where the party took place and the place where Kurt was last seen alive and potentially living in a basement for a few days. But they stumble upon this body and they go to the warehouse and they tell like the first adult that they see and the adult doesn't believe them. So they take him back and there is a body. So they call police.
00:41:31
Speaker
And it didn't take long for police to arrive at the scene and positively identify the body as belonging to Kurt. Kurt was found face up in shallow water. He was wearing the same clothes he was wearing the day he went to the party. So a bright yellow shirt and jeans. I read in a couple of different places, and I'll talk about that later, this later on too, when we talk about the investigation, but that he was found
00:42:00
Speaker
in almost a crucifix position. So his arms out like he was being crucified and he was barefoot. I knew it. I knew it. So his left shoe was later recovered from the scene, but to this day we have never found his right shoe. It would have to be near the scene unless somebody took it.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm wondering if it's like one of those weird trophy-type situations. Did he... Okay, so obviously from the sound of it, it sounds as though his body was staged, but we don't know that for sure. But how did he die? Do we know that? So...
00:42:52
Speaker
No. In short, no Kurt's body was taken to the coroner's office for an autopsy. This is all from unsolved mysteries. It was determined that he died only 24 to 36 hours before his body was found. So
00:43:09
Speaker
the day before and someone was in the basement, you know, the day before the dad checked it. But again, we don't know who that was. And so that means he would have been alive for at least three days after he left the party. But that's so weird because he's number one, he's wearing the same clothes. Number two, this is not like Kurt to not come home because he would have definitely been sobered up three days later.
00:43:37
Speaker
And number three, he's found only 500 yards from the duplex, like from that last spot. So that seems very odd to me. And amazing that he was found that close to the last place he was seen alive and still no search warrant. Yeah.
00:44:01
Speaker
The coroner said, quote, the manner of death in this particular case was signed out as probably accidental. He hadn't been beaten in any way. He hadn't been traumatized in any way. He didn't have enough alcohol to end his life. He had no pre-existing natural disease. And as Sherlock Holmes says, quote, you eliminate all other possibilities and that which remains is truth, end quote. This was a diagnosis by exclusion, end quote.
00:44:29
Speaker
Um, that doesn't sound very medical to me. And I apologize to whoever this coroner is for being critical. But number one, it does not strike me as very scientific or professional to be quoting Sherlock Holmes as you're talking about someone's death. And number two,
00:44:51
Speaker
To say I'm saying it's accidental because I'm excluding everything else. And it's not even accidental. It's probably accidental. You can't even say for sure that it was accidental. There are so many problems with this comment to me.
00:45:12
Speaker
And I actually read it's very rare, like very rare for a coroner to not be able to definitively say how a person died. Like it's not a common thing for them to say, eh, we can't really tell. It may have been an accident, probably accidental. Like that's not a normal thing. Yeah. I mean, did they check? Had he been, you know, maybe somebody slipped him something in a drink.
00:45:40
Speaker
They did do like a toxicology report and there was nothing if memory serves correct that was in the toxicology report. They did check for needle marks in case he had taken something that would have already been out of his system, but there was nothing like that. I actually read in one place that Dorothy said she was pretty much told he died of adult SIDS.
00:46:08
Speaker
So the sudden death syndrome. Except in a 17 year old boy. I've never heard of that before. Ever. Me either. That sounds crazy to me. Andy's found on his back. So how's that possible? Yeah. And if it was accidental in the fall. Mm hmm.
00:46:29
Speaker
And I don't, I don't think he would fall and land in such a position that he was in. But what's crazy is we don't know the exact position that he was in because investigators did not take pictures of him when they found his body. They took pictures of him when they moved him to the court, but not when he was in the position that they found him in.
00:46:49
Speaker
Okay, now when you said before that the investigation, it was appalling, the problems, that in itself is appalling, especially if he was in such an odd position when his body was found, that should have been the first thing that you would do is photograph it.
00:47:11
Speaker
yep and so you know just as we are skeptical of this probably accidental so too was the soba family and they were determined to get to the bottom of what happened to curt on their own if they had to and dorothy said quote i didn't believe that they couldn't tell me how curt died for my peace of mind i want to know what happened to my boy end quote
00:47:33
Speaker
Allison it was reported that his body like we just said was in that crucifix position. So it's nothing natural So the family is continuing to look for answers and they're saying we're gonna look for these answers with or without The support of police good for them because I would have done the same thing
00:47:53
Speaker
And the third strange thing about this case, Ken, Kurt's dad, was a million percent sure that just the day before Kurt's body was found that he had thoroughly searched that very ravine where his son was found and saw nothing. So he sees nothing, but the next day his son was found there in a bright yellow shirt. And I don't think Ken would have missed that, yes. No, he would not have missed it.
00:48:24
Speaker
And he is adamant that his son's death was a result of foul play. While the family felt that Kurt's case was nowhere close to being solved, the police accepted the ruling of the coroner and was like, well, it was probably accidental. Case closed. Oh no. No, no, no. Now a word from our sponsor, BetterHelp.
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00:52:44
Speaker
So now we're on to instance or strange instance number four. Oh gosh, they keep coming.
00:52:53
Speaker
Yes. And this one is, again, it's different. So after Kurt was discovered, I read, and once worse, after he was buried, that same shop owner that had the previous encounter with the homeless man making creepy comments had another, had another encounter.
00:53:15
Speaker
Apparently, this homeless man left the shop owner a bouquet of flowers with a note that said, roses are red, the skies blue, they found him dead and they'll find you too. Oh, my okay, first of all, I'd go straight to the police. But knowing the police in this case, that makes me a little bit nervous. But that's still exactly where I would go.
00:53:38
Speaker
And that's what the shop owner did. So they immediately contacted police. Police do question the man. Um, but again, felt that he was harmless, just a mentally little mentally unstable. Um, I read and I'm pretty positive. It was also mentioned on trace evidence that they interviewed this man in the back of their police car, determined he was just a weirdo from Detroit who could have played no possible part in Kurt's disappearance or death.
00:54:04
Speaker
And then said, you're free to go, dude. And the dude was never seen again. Well, obviously he went somewhere. Where did he go? Yeah. Don't know. Never seen him again after that day. Wow.
00:54:23
Speaker
Again, just days before Kurt was found, another woman comes forward to police with reports that she saw two boys carrying a third down the street. So on that episode 40 of Trace Evidence, the woman stated that she was almost positive the boy was being carried with a missing right shoe and that it was Kurt. But
00:54:47
Speaker
She says she saw him before he was found, but she doesn't come forward to police until after he's been found because her husband advised her it was probably best for them not to get involved. Again, I don't get that man mentality, but you know, we've talked about it before. I brought up the, the Kitty Genovese case, you know, where there was a newspaper article that was something like, you know,
00:55:16
Speaker
38 who witnessed murder and didn't call the police. And they were just afraid to get involved. And gosh, that's heartbreaking that that happens. But I do wonder the validity, because it sounds pretty, you know, we're talking two days before he's found. So on the 26th, the bed was just slept in in the basement of that duplex. We know that Kurt had only been there, you said for just a day.
00:55:46
Speaker
or two, you know, so he was alive for several days after the party. And I mean, you would notice if somebody's missing a shoe. I mean, that that is something that would trigger your memory of that sighting. So I'm curious as to who these other two were. And in such a small town, you would think the husband's not going to say necessarily don't get involved if they don't know who the people are. I feel like. Yeah. And
00:56:16
Speaker
I'm wondering if maybe, like you said, they maybe knew them and didn't want to be involved or maybe they just didn't recognize the other two men. Maybe it was people from the party from Detroit and they just didn't know who they were. But like, I'm just here to say if Anthony Dameron said, which he never would, but if he did, oh, we're not going to get involved in that. If I saw something that I thought would be prudent to a police investigation, I would literally look at him and be like, you can kiss my butt. I'm telling someone.
00:56:43
Speaker
Yeah, like you're not gonna tell me not to get involved. So right if you see I'll let you know how Yeah, I'll let you know how my talk with the police go right exactly Investigators, of course are made aware of this and they tell the sober family, you know what? We'll look into that report but it's rumored that they never did which is no surprise to any of us nor was it a surprise to the family and
00:57:10
Speaker
And so the Silvus continued to investigate on their own. In fact, the family didn't actually have to wait long for another clue into their son's final days. A friend of Kurt's named David told the family that he saw Kurt three days after he disappeared. So just like probably the day before he died. And
00:57:33
Speaker
He says that Kurt and another boy that he didn't recognize were walking along a busy street about a mile away from the Sova home. And according to Unsolved Mysteries, David said, quote, I pulled over to offer Kurt a ride at this point and a van pulled up and Kurt yelled out, Franco!
00:57:51
Speaker
They both ran over to the van and got in. I didn't know Kurt was missing. If I would have known he was missing, there would probably have been something I could have done. I could have followed the van, but I didn't know. And two days later, he was found dead. And that was the last time I saw him. End quote. Wow. Mm hmm. Wow. So again, three days after he disappeared. But. Mm hmm.
00:58:19
Speaker
I guess I'm torn on this because I want to believe him. I'm struggling to necessarily believe that he didn't know that Kurt was missing. And two struggles with the fact
00:58:36
Speaker
This is a small town. Two thousand people live in this town. Like his parents have been hanging up posters. His brothers have been hanging up posters. They've been looking everywhere. And you're telling me he's able to avoid them in a two thousand person town. We're talking about it. I'm sure people are talking about it.
00:58:58
Speaker
So there's parts of it that I'm like, well, he really had to know it was Kurt. That's his friend. Like, you know, they were friends. So he definitely, you know, it would be Kurt. He would be positive about that. But then there's the other part of me that's like, he's running into all these random people and all of his friends, but he hasn't ran into his parents. How is he avoiding them? Right. And like, I feel like even if this friend had been out of town,
00:59:22
Speaker
you know, the weekend of the party or whatever, and that's maybe why he wouldn't know. You would think another friend would have texted and been like, dude, Kurt is missing. You know what, well- Well, he wouldn't have texted him. He would have called him. He would have called him, yeah, because we're in the 80s. But yeah, he would have called him and said, you know, oh my gosh, Kurt's missing or whatever. I feel like he would have heard.
00:59:47
Speaker
Unless, I mean, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess he could have been out of town on a weekend and then he comes back and then he sees Kurt, you know? And you know what else? They would be in school. So I'm sure they talked about it at school. Yeah. And it seems weird to me that if a friend comes over and says, Hey, let me give you a ride.
01:00:10
Speaker
And then my friend just completely ignores me and sees another van pull up and is like, Franco, and then runs over, I'd be like, rude. You know, I, and obviously this guy, this friend doesn't know who Franco is.
01:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, he said he didn't know. But Dorothy does report that to police because, you know, anything could be helpful, even if it has some things where we're like, does that really fit? So she brings that to police, but they just dismiss her again. And according to trace evidence, at this point, Dorothy is like, I'm going to search
01:00:49
Speaker
on my own and see what I can find out. And she actually began searching for other cases in the area that sounded similar to Kurt's. So, you know, has this happened before? Could this be a repeat? You know, anything that could help her. And that's when she found out about a boy named Eugene who died three months after Kurt. He was found in another ravine on the same street just two and a half miles from where Kurt's body was discovered.
01:01:17
Speaker
And he only lived one block away from the Sova family. Okay. Those are some odd similarities. And strangely, both boys had been missing for a few days before they were found dead and Eugene's right shoe was never found. Okay. Okay. I'm convinced there's a link now. That's too odd. That's too odd to not be linked.
01:01:45
Speaker
Yeah. And his death also ruled an accident and they believed he had just fallen into this ravine. Wow. I'd be calling up Eugene's mom and I'd be like, let's join this fight together. And shit, Dorothy does express that curds.
01:02:04
Speaker
case needs re-examining. And it was re-examined. It was re-examined by four different agencies. But each time someone different took a look at the case, they said it was quote unquote too cold or that the initial investigation had been too sloppy and they had little to work with.
Re-examination of the Case
01:02:22
Speaker
And so they're like, we can't do anything. It's been too, it's been cold for too long. The initial investigation was too poor. We literally have nothing to go off of. We're so sorry. Well, the family's got stuff to go off of.
01:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, and Dorothy actually had boxes of things that she kept. But finally, the Cleveland Police Department got ahold of this case and their detective was able to work the case. And in trace evidence, Steve talks in detail about how horribly the case was managed, which we obviously know. But when that new investigator got Kurt's file, it was literally
01:03:06
Speaker
a single manila folder with about four pieces of paper in it and about four Polaroid pictures. And that was it. And the fam, the mom, she's got boxes. Dorothy's got, but the investigation had a folder with four pieces of paper. Okay. Yep. Wow.
01:03:28
Speaker
Yeah and the Cleveland detectives continue to unearth more poor police work. In some cases it appeared that the original investigators had literally just brushed Kurt's case under the rug and just
01:03:43
Speaker
Did away with things that they didn't want to deal with or just pretended like things were not happening and Dorothy and Ken's concerns were right The police were not devoting enough time to their son's case They didn't give Kurt's case enough attention and it was now blatantly obvious I mean you've had this is now the fifth team to try to investigate this and the first four said that they couldn't and
01:04:09
Speaker
So while there were several contributing factors as to why Kurt's case could not be at this point thoroughly investigated, you know, because of the coverups, brushing things under the rug, most professionals would agree now when this was re-examined that Kurt's death did not appear to be probably accidental. Well, obviously. They're obvious to all of us. Anybody with a brain end up.
01:04:34
Speaker
Nine years after Kurt's death, the case was reopened by the prosecutor's office. Again, when the prosecutor gets all this evidence, he's like, are you freaking kidding me? This is a joke. Like I cannot believe this is all the local police department was able to do. He said,
01:04:54
Speaker
that some people working the case should have been arrested, that it was that poorly handled, which, you know, I'm sure is a double edged sword for Kurt's family. Because again, it gives you some validation that all these concerns you've been saying that they're not doing a very good job are true and are heard.
01:05:14
Speaker
but like look at what that cost you though. Yeah. Like that potentially cost you your child. Right. Yeah. If you had police who actually, you know, created a search warrant for the house, they could have found him in the basement. If that were him, if they had looked more into the comments of the homeless man,
01:05:36
Speaker
then maybe they could have said or asked him, where is he going to be found or whatever it is. And if Dorothy found a connection with someone else in a ravine who died under the same circumstances only months later, law enforcement should have found that.
01:05:58
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the part that hurts me the most, just as you said, and I'm sure the family as well, is it's not like Kurt disappeared on Friday and Kurt was found dead Saturday morning. Kurt disappeared on Friday and was found dead several days later. So he was alive for several days. And has this been handled differently? We might not even be talking about Kurt Sova today. He might be
01:06:24
Speaker
you know, a 40 some year old man now. Right. And we might not even be having this conversation. Well, I guess he'd be older than that. Like a 60 some year old man or 50 some year old man, but like things could be different. Yeah.
01:06:37
Speaker
But when the persecuting office dug into the case, they discovered that crime scene photos only showed Kurt's body on the stretcher. So like I mentioned, no photos of him in that crucifix type position. And when they asked, you know, why were no photos taken at the crime scene, the investigating team could only say that, Oh, we're pretty sure we took them. We're pretty positive we did. Yeah.
01:07:04
Speaker
No forensic team helped on this case. We can all gather that the Newburgh Heights Police Department is small. So they should have and could have called a bigger agency like Cleveland and asked for help and Cleveland would have sent their forensic team.
01:07:21
Speaker
But according to Dorothy, that didn't happen. And when the Cleveland Police Department offered, they heard about Kurt's case. Hey, do you want us to send a forensic team down to help you? The local police department was like, nah, we got it. Obviously not. Yeah. I feel like that's police work 101. Yes. No, to take pictures. It's to get search warrants. It's to talk to the last people who saw him alive.
01:07:51
Speaker
And it's so frustrating because I think we have these conversations every week that we're not even doing the bare minimum. And it's resulting in people's death.
01:08:03
Speaker
I think one of my biggest questions though, is again, why this duplex was never searched by police. We know this was the last place he was seen alive. Whether he was in the basement for those few days or not, it's still the last place he was seen alive. We know that someone who at least resembled him was staying in the basement at some point because the family tells the Soba family, these people gave witness statements, but yet their home was never searched.
01:08:30
Speaker
But the original investigators told the prosecutor's office that there was no reason to search the home. Hello. Yeah. There clearly was. And questions like the ones we have raised and so many others have actually had the police department investigated and the chief at the time, Lucas, was fired from his position.
01:08:55
Speaker
because he was caught falsifying police credentials and giving it to a 911 dispatcher that was working for the department. And so he was like fired and told he could never work anywhere ever again as a police officer.
01:09:08
Speaker
The lead detective on the case, according to trace evidence, had a much harsher go around than police chief Lucas. Um, the detective was charged with beating severely beating five different suspects.
01:09:27
Speaker
during his time with that police department. Wow. And one incident that was touched on in trace evidence, he pulled a man over. Something happened. He struck the man on the head. He had to drive the man to the hospital when the man was released. He took him to the same area where Kurt was found and tried to beat him to death again. Uh,
01:09:55
Speaker
Oh, you want to talk about corruption? Here you go. Mm hmm. It was also rumored that that same detective was involved in drug trafficking and all and after all of these investigations, the detective still remained uncooperative and aiding with Kurtz case. So after all that's revealed about him, he's still like, yeah, I'm not going to help you with Kurtz case.
01:10:22
Speaker
which makes you wonder if there were drugs there because we said there has to have been some sort of draw for people to drive as far as they did. And if this detective is indeed linked with drug trafficking, I know that's just a rumor, then maybe that's why the lack of cooperation. Yeah. And like he was never, you know,
01:10:47
Speaker
that I've read named as a person of interest or anything like that. But he's just very standoffish about cooperating with anything to do with Kurt's case. And I'm like, maybe this investigation left a bitter taste in his mouth. And he's just kind of like, screw you guys. I'm not really sure.
01:11:01
Speaker
Yeah, that could be. In 2019, though, nearly 40 years after Kurt's death, the Newburgh Heights Police Department actually reopened his case and partnered with Tiffin University's criminology students to look at the evidence again. And according to an article published on May 21, 2022 on Fox 8, so recently,
01:11:24
Speaker
Quote, police say Dorothy devoted years of time looking into her son's death, leaving detectives pages and pages of detailed notes about what she found. About three years ago, her notebook was taken out of the evidence box and read by criminal justice professor and a dozen students at Tiffin University, who analyzed evidence in the case. They worked with police following up on information and tips. Newburgh Heights Police Chief John Mayjoy
01:11:48
Speaker
says those notes are a huge help to the investigators who are still trying to crack the case and determine if Soba was met without play before his death." End quote. Wow. So good job, Dorothy, because without her, obviously these criminology students wouldn't even have anything to look at. They'd be reading four pages.
01:12:08
Speaker
and be a 15 minute rating assignment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A little gallery walk and you'd be done. But he did say that because of what they were able to discover in that information provided by Dorothy, they actually traveled to three different states or traveled three states away to administer polygraph tests. And he said, quote, we've traveled hundreds of miles and put in thousands of hours of work on this case.
01:12:34
Speaker
which have had not been done up until now." End quote. Well, at least that the current police chief is trying to reverse. Obviously you can't change what happened in the past, but he's at least trying to show this family that he's taking the investigation seriously now. Yeah. And I think from what I read,
01:13:02
Speaker
From the family, it was hard at first for them to trust this new police chief. Oh, and that makes sense, yeah. Because of, you know, they've been kind of stabbed in the back so many times, but the older brother now has said, you know, it's a relief to know they finally do have someone on their side in him. I just hate that it took them that long to get there. Right, right.
01:13:29
Speaker
Again, from the Fox 8 article, it said, quote, in the past three years, Newburgh Heights police have interviewed hundreds of witnesses, but they say they are still not sure exactly how the teenager died. The police chief said part of the challenges detectives face now is due to the fact at the time of Soba's death, officers didn't do much of an investigation.
01:13:50
Speaker
parentheses, duh. But he says he still hopes to one day find that missing puzzle piece and figure out how a teenager with a bright future of headed him ended up dead in a grassy field end quote.
01:14:04
Speaker
So we have support there. And then in 2020, Kurt's case is actually selected for the crime con crowd solve, which is an exclusive event, you know, where true crime enthusiasts and citizens, like citizen detectives, amateur sleuthounds, have you gathered to examine case files and potentially explore new theories.
01:14:26
Speaker
And I read that they actually generated some new ideas and potential leads, but the case still remains unsolved. So we're going to talk briefly about a couple of different things that could have potentially happened to Kurt. So one is we have to assume that one possible theory is that Kurt did die of some sort of accident.
01:14:51
Speaker
And I don't think that he fell into a ravine or something like that. I think, like some of the other cases we have talked about, there are many people who would believe that Kurt died at the party of an overdose and his body was hidden until it could be placed in that ravine. Now, I did not read in my research if his body was decomposed, but they were able to determine that he was alive just 24 to 36 hours before his body was found.
01:15:22
Speaker
So I don't know about this one. No one came forward to police in this theory because they were afraid that they would get in trouble. And we've talked about that. We had the one case that the kids were at the party and nobody came forward. We've talked about that before. The thing I wonder is if in this scenario, if it were to be true, could the person living in the basement story have been a way to try to get someone to discover that?
01:15:50
Speaker
Kurt was dead without coming out and saying Kurt's dead like did they know if they told Ken hey I think somebody's living in my basement that he would go and check it out but the body was moved before he got there
01:16:04
Speaker
Hmm. I don't know. And like with this one, I struggle because knowing how close Kurt was was with his family, he would have had to have been incapacitated in some way, if that were him in the basement or else he would have gone home. But then law enforcement said there was or the coroner said that there was no trauma. But of course, our coroner is quoting Sherlock Holmes. So
01:16:32
Speaker
There could have been and, you know, maybe it just wasn't in the report, but I don't know. It doesn't fit to me. I just think that it's hard to get time of death wrong. And if the coroner is saying that it was, you know, 24 to 36 hours before he was found, I just think the timeline doesn't add up with that theory.
01:17:00
Speaker
So theory two is that Kurt was a victim of foul play. In this theory, many people point to the fact that Kurt actually did not know a lot of the people that were present at this party. So despite the fact it takes place in his town, there is a large amount of people attending this party from Detroit. And we know that Kurt got sick at the party and I speculated perhaps Kurt was so drunk that he maybe caused a scene and maybe made some people mad and was targeted as a result.
01:17:30
Speaker
And see my problem with this theory goes back to the same thing. While I do believe that he was a victim of foul play, that I am not going to debate. Because in my mind, that is set. I don't necessarily know if it were people from the party. Obviously, I don't think it happened the night of the party. Because again, if we believe he was alive, you know, 24 hours before his body's found, which is several days after the party, and again,
01:17:59
Speaker
Why wouldn't he have gone home in those days after the party? That's what I keep going back to. And some people have said that they think Samuel knows more or could have been potentially involved more than he was letting on.
01:18:16
Speaker
those believing this theory say that it was just really convenient that Samuel went outside with his drunk friend and then returned without him saying oh he just vanished I looked for him I don't know where he went to be honest no one at the party that I read about could really recall an exact time that Samuel and Kurt went outside so therefore it's almost like when the police ask where you were and you say well I was home alone watching movies there's no one there to verify that and so we're just having to take
01:18:45
Speaker
someone's word and we have no real way of proving that Samuel's timeline of events is the actual timeline. So is that actually what happened? We're just taking his word, but he's been really cooperative about things and I just never got the suspicion ever that it was Samuel. It just, I never felt that. Even, even if like somebody wanted to say, okay, well maybe Samuel knows more than what he is letting on and you know,
01:19:15
Speaker
He and Kurt went for this walk to get fresh air, and then Kurt fell, and he fell into the ravine. And Samuel, if he's been drinking too, thinks he's dead. But again, even that doesn't make sense, because if he fell, then there would have been some sort of trauma to his body. And his dad searched that area, and he wasn't there. Right. Yeah.
01:19:41
Speaker
Again, whatever happened to him I don't believe that it happened the night of the party, but I can't wrap my head around a good logical reason why after he sobered up he wouldn't have gone home. There are some that say the homeless man could have been involved in some way and wondering maybe if homeless man and Franco were somehow connected.
01:20:07
Speaker
because he seems to have known an awful lot. So could he potentially be responsible or maybe know the people that were because, you know, he made the comment about in two days you'll find his body and he made the weird comment about stealing people's shoes and then Kurt's right shoe is missing. And that just really kind of sticks out to me. Just odd comments that
01:20:34
Speaker
people not connected to Kurt's disappearance would be able to make. Unless it's just coincidental. And then plus they're being the other body. I mean, either it's somebody from this area who's targeting certain people, or I mean, we have a serial killer on the loose or something. I mean, there are too many odd coincidences between those two crime scenes.
01:21:01
Speaker
To just say oh, it was you know, it's just I Don't know a fluke. I think they're connected There's just so many loopholes. Mm-hmm. There are
01:21:16
Speaker
To close out today's case, I want to leave you with some words from Kurt's brother, Kevin, as reported on crimecon.com. Quote, my little brother is gone and I don't know why he's dead. If it was an accident, what about the poor kids who made a terrible decision to leave him there and have had to live with that their whole life?
01:21:35
Speaker
I'd be able to put my arm around someone and say, it wasn't your fault. I forgive you. Or what if he was murdered? I'd want to see justice. Mom blamed herself until the day she died. Kurt's circle of friends was broadening and we didn't know many of them at that point. Everyone was living their own life. Mom and dad were working. The older boys were out of the home most of the time.
01:21:57
Speaker
We owned some property outside of town and mom said we should have built a home and moved out there. 38 years later, I got a call out of the blue. Mr. Sova, this is Chief Mayjoy with the Newburgh Heights Police Department. I thought he was contacting me about something my brother Kenny had done because he was always in and out of trouble, but he wanted to talk about Kurt. We had a short conversation. I wanted to get off the phone. I wasn't ready to deal with it. My wife convinced me to give him a chance.
01:22:27
Speaker
I told him later that I would come in and talk to him and he told me about the crowd solve. He'd done his homework on it and was confident it could help. I left his office very optimistic. I brought up feelings about Kurt that I had stuffed away for years. It showed me that they were serious about trying to help his case. When my brother Kenny died, he was dead inside our family home for 10 days. I wanted to set the whole house on fire. There was nothing in the house I wanted anything to do with.
01:22:53
Speaker
Kitty had sold everything he could get his hands on. But among the mess and mom's old closet, I found boxes and boxes of documents, news clippings, and notes that mom had kept on Kurt's case. I took those and left the rest of it to the dope dealers and copper salvagers. Two and a half years later, when I met with Chief Mayjoy, I took some of those boxes with me. His eyes lit up like he had just hit the lottery. I told him to take it all. I felt like I was getting energy from my mom above.
01:23:22
Speaker
and that all she had done had finally paid off. I wish right now that my mom was sitting here and said to me, she's the one who deserves to be treated the way crowds solve and she may joy or treating me. She never let go. Eventually everyone gave up on her. Kurt died in Newburgh. We lived in Cleveland. There was always conflict between the two jurisdictions. Nobody wanted to talk about it. I told her so many times, mom, give it up. Nobody cares about this anymore. Nobody cares about Kurt.
01:23:51
Speaker
Now I know hundreds of people, complete strangers, have it in their heart to do something. It's a way to do things in the future. These people are nothing but optimistic about their ability to help and you can see it in their eyes that they want to help a total stranger's family. How do you not encourage that? When I get to see her again, I'm going to tell mom, I was wrong mom. People still care. They've cared all along." End quote.
01:24:17
Speaker
Anyone with information regarding Kurt's case should contact Crime Stoppers at 216-252-7463. As of 2020, they are offering a $5,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in the case. Or you can contact the Newburgh Heights Police Department at 216-641-2117 or police at newburgh-ohio.gov.
01:24:44
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:25:14
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
01:25:38
Speaker
I think this has been a busy week for everyone. So not as many love notes going out this week. But if you would like to hear your name read on an episode, please send us a message on Facebook, Instagram or TikTok. Send us an email or best yet, write us a five star written review. Yes. And some of the love notes that we do have this week.
01:26:03
Speaker
are going out to Heather and Amanda for reaching out on Facebook and Instagram. And our love goes to Alisco, I'm sorry if that's incorrect, from Canada who left us a five-star written review. And y'all know I love Canada saying, I adore, both hosts have a timeless charm combined with sharp minds. They weave a good tale and then discuss smart, funny, but not in a snarky way. And there's a real warmth there, end quote.
01:26:31
Speaker
I feel like it's everything. I feel like I need to go to Canada and I feel like I would have friends there. Like I think I could post, like I'm going to Canada and I think people, I would have, I would have people there. Yeah, they would come meet you at the airport, Maggie. That review is so super sweet. Plus we got a message from our friend Laura on Patreon who filled out the shout out form.
01:26:57
Speaker
She said, quote, thanks for encouraging me to start a pod. One is coming soon based on Michigan murders and missing persons. Well, I know you're going to have to keep us updated, Laura.
Engagement and Announcements on Patreon
01:27:12
Speaker
Absolutely you will. And if you are on Patreon and you comment back about the teeth dream, I appreciate knowing I am not alone.
01:27:25
Speaker
Oh, plus we need to say welcome to Tanya and Tanya who have recently joined our Patreon. Yes. And with that, all of our love is going out to all of you.
01:27:42
Speaker
Until we talk to you again next week, sleuth ounce. And if you cannot wait until then, make sure you join us on Patreon for some bonus content at all the levels. Plus, we have a plan starting in November because it is the season of thanks and giving from members who are joined or will join the $15 or $20 a month levels.
01:28:10
Speaker
quarterly swag boxes. This is a brainchild of mine. And so the number of swag items in said swag box will depend on your level, but you must have been a member of the $15 or $20 a month level for at least two months to be eligible for the swag box.
01:28:33
Speaker
Remember, this is going out in November, so you need to have at least been a member of the $15 or $20 a month level in October as well. So mark your calendars to join or go ahead and upgrade today because you do not want to miss the swag. And you do not want to miss this little side note.
01:28:59
Speaker
that one, last month's Patreons were a little late uploading because I was at the factory boys concert and I'm gonna put up some videos on there for you guys to see my experience. And two, this past weekend I meant to put the first many up but I got carsick on the way to North Carolina because Anthony took me to the land of Oz that's in North Carolina and I openly wept.
01:29:24
Speaker
Yeah, I know. September's been such a good month. So I'm going to post a little bit about it on Patreon and show you all some pictures so you can enjoy my favorite moments with me. Yeah, it's perfect.