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E222: Kyron Horman
3.7k Plays11 months ago
The day was going to be a dream come true. It was Jjune 4th, 2010, and 7-year-old Kyron Horman was thrilled that the day of the science fair had finally arrived. His display on the red-eyed tree frog was sure to impress! But, just after the fair ended and it was time to walk to homeroom, something shifted. The day filled with promise turned to one that was every parent’s nightmare when Kyron didn’t get off the bus that afternoon. When his parents found out that he had been marked absent from school all day, they knew something was horribly wrong.
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Transcript
Schools as Safe Havens
00:00:00
Speaker
I once had a student ask me if I liked school when I was their age. I laughed and said, of course I liked school. I mean, I liked it so much I never left. Obviously, me choosing a career in education and thus never truly leaving school was of my own accord. So for many kids, school represents a safe haven. The place they come to for food, for warmth, or for love.
00:00:24
Speaker
But so many times in recent years, we've seen the sanctity of public schools get demise with school shootings and drugs invading the once sacred halls of learning. For everyone that's even slightly invested in public education, whether you're an educator or you have a child in school, or you just love the community you're in, you know that schools are often the backbones of our communities. And in today's case, the backbone of one community is put to the test when a young boy disappears from his elementary school.
00:00:52
Speaker
The science fair turned to tragedy when after kissing his stepmom goodbye and walking down the hall, one little boy never made it to homeroom. This is the story of Kyron Horman.
Podcast Introduction and Host Insights
00:01:38
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:01:47
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families with each case. We encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:02:15
Speaker
Okay. Also listeners, if this is your first time hearing me, cause I was gone for awhile or your first time in a long time, sorry that I sound like I swallowed a toad. I'm battling what my doctor calls the Kentucky cred. So I normally don't sound this awful, but here we are.
00:02:36
Speaker
It's because in Kentucky, if you're from Kentucky, you understand this. And I realized that a lot of states have things like this. Our weather goes from like, what's the, I saw a meme on Facebook once. It says something like the weather just went from
00:02:53
Speaker
What did it say? Something like 75 to 30, like it saw a state trooper or something like that. I mean, it really does here. Like today is 73. Tomorrow it'll probably be like 25 and snowy. Who knows? Right. Who knows? But at least I have a voice. Yeah. I didn't even have a voice. I had to take off work on Friday. Oh. Because, you know, you got to have a voice to be able to educate the youth of America.
00:03:24
Speaker
Um, but it has been a while since I've been in the driver's seat of coffee and cases. So just bear with me a little bit as I tell you the story of Karen, this was very sad. And there is quite a bit of research on the West coast about this case, because that's where, um, it took place. It took place in Portland, Oregon. So.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah just sad and let's just get into it I
Kyron Horman's Early Life
00:03:54
Speaker
guess. Okay so on September the 9th 2002 Kyron was born in Portland Oregon to his father Kane Horman and his mother Desiree Young.
00:04:05
Speaker
So the two of those, Cain and Desiree, were very deeply in love, but they divorced eight months into Desiree's pregnancy because they had, quote unquote, irreconcilable differences. You know, when people separate for irreconcilable differences, does that really just mean they've grown apart? That's kind of what I think. Yeah. Because I feel like what else could that mean?
00:04:34
Speaker
I know for two years after his birth, Kyron actually lived with his mom, but in 2004, she developed kidney failure from what I read. And so he then moved in with his dad. So dad Kane took over full custody, but mom.
00:04:50
Speaker
Desiree still remained highly active in his life and remained a constant, loving parent in Kyron's life. So she didn't just disappear. She just knew he needed a little bit more than she was able to give at that present time. So he had moved in with his dad. And that makes me very happy that they're both adult enough to have this relationship. Yeah. A healthy co-parenting relationship.
00:05:18
Speaker
Interestingly, according to Medium, Desiree called her old friend. And when I was reading this, I was like,
00:05:25
Speaker
This is interesting. So she calls her friend Terry and asked her to move into the Horman residence to help kind of take care of Kyron because she knew that Cain, who was an engineer for Intel, would be extremely busy. So they needed like almost kind of like a nanny and she called her friend. Well,
00:05:51
Speaker
They were well acquainted. Okay. But those emotions of friendship soon turned into romantic ones. Oh no. Because while Kane and Desiree were still married, I read in a couple sources that Kane and Terry ended up actually having an affair. And then in 2007, I think it was 2007, that year could be off by like a year. They ended up getting married and they have a baby together. Oh.
00:06:22
Speaker
I mean, I guess that Desiree was okay with that if this affair happened while they were still married and yet she's still suggesting that Terry move in.
00:06:33
Speaker
And I don't know if they were like, you know, separated. I'm assuming they were by that point and just kind of waiting for the paperwork to finalize. And that's when Cain and Terry turned romantic, but they ended up getting married and they have a baby. So Kyron has a little sister and he was very proud of his little sister and he was the typical big brother. So at this point he's like five, right? When his sister's born.
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So typical little boy things. He loved the color red. He loved to draw and he liked to do art things. He loved frogs and hot wheels. So all the little boy things. And he actually wanted to be a police detective like his new stepfather, Tony. So Desiree had also remarried. Okay. Both parents have moved on. Yeah.
00:07:25
Speaker
And like me, Kyron was a cat lover and he had a cat named Bootsy. And Bootsy would go, I don't know. I think at one point maybe he had a boot, like a boots or a Bootsy at one point in my childhood. Maggie has had so many animals that she can't remember. Listen, growing up, my brother got a cat from, I think I've told the story, the same lady that gave me my teddy bear that I took to college.
00:07:56
Speaker
So they had a cat that was like obsessed with my brother. And so they let my brother have this cat and it was her name was mommy cat because she literally had so many kittens before she was fixed. So like at one point we probably had
00:08:13
Speaker
12 cats that lived outside at my house until we found all of them home. So there was potentially a boots or bootsy. Yeah, potentially in the mix. Yeah. So this bootsy would literally follow little Kyron everywhere around their family home and would even go as far to meet him at the bus stop after school. What? I don't normally think of a cat doing that. That's cute. That was cute. So naturally, because he wanted to be a police detective,
00:08:44
Speaker
He had a huge interest in forensic science. And in fact, on the day that he went missing, he had on a CSI shirt.
00:08:53
Speaker
I know at only seven, he was actually in an advanced math class. So good for him. Yeah. And not only was he great in math, he was just an amazing overall student, but in the weeks prior to him vanishing, he had actually been experiencing memory problems and these like bouts where he would zone out or be zoned off during talks and Terry, his stepmom.
The Day Kyron Went Missing
00:09:21
Speaker
had later claimed that they had made an appointment for him on June 11th, 2010, because they believed he was experiencing many seizures. Oh. And you know, seizures look different. They do. A lot of people don't always scan that. Yeah. They're not always the convulsing. They can just be, you know, like blank stares. Yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker
more catatonic state. Yeah. So just a few short days before that doctor's appointment, also Oregon, you all go to school a long time because they're still in school and it's in June. So I will say, because in the North, when I taught in New Jersey, it's the same way. They don't start until September, but then they go through the end of June.
00:10:13
Speaker
Whereas here we start in August and go through the end of May. Like sometimes we start in July. They are so early. Yeah. Teachers do. Yeah, for real. So just a few days before that appointment, his school was actually having a science fair and Kyron was really excited for the science fair that was going to take place at Skyline Elementary School.
00:10:38
Speaker
On Friday, June 4th, 2010, he and his stepmom arrived at school. And from what I could tell, it was typically a little earlier than normal because the science fair was in the morning. So before school started. Okay. So the two get to school, they walk his backpack and his coat to his classroom, and then they headed into the gym.
00:11:03
Speaker
to set up his project. And Terry actually stayed at school to watch the science fair. There was like something else going on to that day.
00:11:11
Speaker
And Kyron was taking part in both things, but he was most excited about the science fair. And so Terry's there and she's snapping pictures of him throughout the morning as he presented his project on the red-eyed frog. Oh, I bet he was loving it. Oh my goodness. And can you imagine how cute? Because he's seven. He has a little project about frogs. My heart would melt. Which he loves. Blue ribbons for everyone.
00:11:36
Speaker
So both Terry and Kyron along with the baby sister were spotted in the gym by several witnesses examining the projects around. And this included like the PTA president saw them there. They were seen by a bunch of people in the gym looking at all these different projects. Terry left school around 8 45 that morning. And she would later say that she last remembered seeing Kyron walking down the hall towards his classroom.
00:12:05
Speaker
And she said she kind of called out to him. He turned and waved at her, then headed down the hall towards his homeroom class. And we even have a few classmates that reported seeing Kyron around nine o'clock that morning. So after Terry left near the south entrance of the school, there are a couple of kids who say, yeah, I saw him. He was heading towards class.
00:12:27
Speaker
And at this school, and from what I could tell, this is their typical start time is 10 AM. Oh, that's late. Which is crazy because my school starts at 7.40. You're right.
00:12:40
Speaker
So was he just going to hang out in homeroom, I guess for that hour until school started? I don't know if like, you know, cause where I'm at, kids can come, they come into homeroom at seven, but we don't start the school day till seven 40. So they have like that time to get there. They get breakfast and all that stuff. So I don't know if it was something like that, but he was on his way to class for school to start at 10, but Allison, he never made it to class.
00:13:09
Speaker
In fact, he was marked absent that day. Yeah. Oh, so of course his family thinking that he is safe at school, right? They continue about their normal day. Cause why would you not at this point? So Terry said that, you know, she saw
00:13:29
Speaker
Kyron headed into, or in the direction of his homeroom. And then she said that she went to run two different errands. So first she said that she headed to Fred Meyer grocery store, cause she had to pick up a couple of things and that she left the grocery store around 10, 10 that morning. She said then she proceeded to drive the baby around town.
00:13:53
Speaker
from about 10, 10 until 11 40 because the baby had an earache and she was hoping that the movement of the car would let the baby sleep and kind of ease that earache a little bit. Listen, when you got a baby not sleeping, you do whatever it takes. Yeah. Preach. We're in the five months sleep regression and it is a struggle up in her. Maggie will be driving around for that hour. I would have been right.
00:14:19
Speaker
So after she does the circling of the neighborhood, she then goes to the gym and she said that she was at the gym from about 1240 until about 120 because she's home right around that time. And so we know that for sure because she's posting pictures of Kyron at the science fair onto her Facebook.
00:14:40
Speaker
And I actually posted a picture for you of him with this little project. Oh my gosh, he's so happy. Oh, I see a CSI shirt. Isn't he so cute? Oh man, look at his display compared to the person next to him. Listen, I'm sorry to the person next to him, but Kyron, he kind of outdid you on that one. Yeah. I would be, I would be like, mom, we got to put my project somewhere else. I can't be beside this one. Yeah. His looks legit.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, he worked hard on that. And from what I could tell, Kane, the dad, was working that day and arrived home that day at two. So Terry's there around like 120 and then the dad gets home around two. At 330, the three of them, so the baby, stepmom, and dad, all walk, and probably Bootsy, all walk to the bus stop to meet Kyren after school.
00:15:36
Speaker
Cause I bet dad was like ready to hear about the science fair and everything. And can you imagine how excited he would be to get off the bus and tell his dad about that day? Yeah. So when the driver stopped at the bus stop, the family was shocked to learn that Kyron never boarded the bus that day. So in a panic, they quickly hurry home and they call the school to see if they had any indication as to where Kyron may be. And the secretary that they spoke to,
00:16:05
Speaker
was able to tell them that as far as anyone knew, Kyron had not been in school since earlier that day at the science fair because he had been marked absent. So he never made it to homeroom.
00:16:23
Speaker
Wow. And obviously, because working in schools, we know that if a child leaves, listen, this makes it sound like schools are unsafe, and I understand that it was unsafe for Kyron, and I don't mean to dismiss that. But in general, in schools, they're not going to let you take a child until you show ID and you check a child out.
00:16:47
Speaker
So the fact that they don't have a record of that, because obviously the secretary would remember or it would be written down that a child were checked out, tells me that either he wandered out or someone was in the school who took him without going through the office. I don't know. OK. One, I know this is earlier
00:17:13
Speaker
in the 2000s and it's not current times, but I don't know. So immediately I'm thinking of how schools that I went to were set up. Well, when I was in middle school, the sixth grade buildings were not attached to the actual junior high. So we had to go outside across the parking lot. Oh.
00:17:35
Speaker
to get to the cafeteria or to get to like computer class and we didn't have teachers walk us there and the school grounds weren't completely fenced in so we could have left or there could have been random people just hanging out. Totally a fair point because my elementary school before it burnt down
00:18:00
Speaker
That's a story for another day. I think I've told it before, but before it burned down in the middle of a school day, as I'm talking about how schools are safe places. But we would walk to the cafeteria, which was in a completely separate building and would just walk ourselves across the big parking lot. Now it doesn't look like from the aerial picture of
00:18:24
Speaker
his school that he would have been walking outside to go to class. It looks like the gym is attached to the main part of the building, but I think I talk about this later on. It was the science fair though that day. And so I think that would have been like a community event where people from the community could come in and look at these. And so I'm wondering if that could have played into
00:18:52
Speaker
Yeah, because normally if you check into a school, you're having to give the reason that you're there, show your ID, do all of that stuff. Right. And even though, even on events like this one, where there are people from the community coming in and they're still checking,
00:19:10
Speaker
obviously it's moving a lot faster and in 2010 I don't know and it's not technically the school day that would be the same as having an open house and families are just coming in after school and you're not really anybody could be coming yeah right hmm
00:19:30
Speaker
So quickly, these adults, so the secretary and the parents realized that he is missing. And so the secretary immediately calls 911 and that is around 3 45.
Community and Police Search Efforts
00:19:44
Speaker
Okay. But so missing all day. Right. Cool. So I don't know. I thought it was odd. And maybe I'm just weird that the secretary called 911.
00:19:58
Speaker
and not the parents, but I don't know. But all of these officers quickly respond to this call that comes in. So in an effort to help in the search, the school district even sent out, they called it a rapid broadcast message. I don't know if that's like, it must be like, you know, one call, we call it one call or one text now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:23
Speaker
And they do this to alert families of a missing student and they actually say in the message quote Kyron Horman did not arrive home today. So they send that out to families and it was sent to parents across the district.
00:20:38
Speaker
per this article I read on Oregon Live. And by 7 PM that day, the sheriff's department and Detective Sergeant Lee Gossen alerts all of these different people about these search and rescue efforts and says that they need to begin a formal missing person search for him. So they're going to start doing things by the book, I guess you could say. Yeah.
00:21:04
Speaker
I'm so nervous Maggie because all I can think of is how sweet Kyron seems and how all it would take is somebody to be like, I saw your presentation on red eyed frogs. I have one outside to get him to come out.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, I know. And I feel like an open science fair is the perfect place for a creep to stalk out a kid for the very reason that you just said. Yeah. I don't know. And like you said, I mean, the schools are such safe places. Right. But there's just bad people.
00:21:50
Speaker
There's just bad people everywhere. Yup. Between seven and seven 15, the County public information officer begins returning pages for us old people, members of the media, and they actually arranged to meet with the media at school. So they're like, come on to school. We're going to have a conference. Okay. So between seven and seven 45, Sheriff Dan Staton personally calls the FBI and says, Hey, we have a kid that's missing.
00:22:19
Speaker
And at 809 PM, the first search teams arrive at Skyline School. So, I mean, we know he's been missing potentially almost going on 12 hours now. But as far as like when the 911 call came in until now, they're moving pretty quickly. Yeah, that is true. That's a fair point.
00:22:40
Speaker
So about 8 15 PM, Lieutenant Mary Lindstrand arrives at the school meets with all of the people that are present and then actually start sending photos of Kyron to the local newspapers and local television stations so they can get his photo out on the news, which is good because hopefully somebody then would notice this kid.
00:23:03
Speaker
Then by 8.25 that same day, Deputy Mark Herron, who is the search and rescue coordinator arrived at the elementary school and they make a plan. And by 9.48 that night, they were full into the efforts of searching for Kyron.
00:23:24
Speaker
By 1040, the school had been searched and cleared. And when I say searched, I mean, they went into crawl spaces. They checked all of the outbuildings, all of the classrooms, all the storage areas, all the closets, the refrigerator freezer things in the cafeteria. So they're looking at everything. If a kid is scared, they might hide.
00:23:50
Speaker
Pretty much anywhere. Yeah. And they're so small. Right. They can fit wherever. At the same time, all of this is being searched. The Horman's house was also searched, which is just a duh.
00:24:03
Speaker
It is here in my research that I paused because we kind of, you kind of talked about this, like the security measures that schools go through because I was thinking about like in the school district where I work and I had never really understood this particular procedure that I'm about to tell you about. But then after researching this case, I'm like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
00:24:27
Speaker
So where I work, all of the teachers are assigned a bus and we have a roster that has every student's name that typically rides that bus. And so as they board the bus, we put check marks by their names and we make notes like, oh, Sally Johnson is new and she rides this bus or Becca Thompson.
00:24:55
Speaker
has a bus note to ride this bus with Sarah James. So we put those types of notes on there. That way, if there was a question, did Sarah get on the bus, then we're able to say, yeah, she did. Right. Yeah, that's really good.
00:25:15
Speaker
Which I know wouldn't help in this situation since he never made it to class. But if there was ever one similar to this that happened, we would at least be able to tell the family, like, yes, your child got on the bus or no, they didn't. Because I think, you know, then that narrows down that little, that time down a lot. Because otherwise you could be like, yeah, your kid was at school. Did they get on the bus? Uh, yeah, I know. So that is the procedure.
00:25:44
Speaker
Finally, at 1044 PM, a caller phones into 911 and wanted to make sure officers checked the train tunnel in the area near the school. And she says, quote, sometimes kids play in there and I want to make sure someone has checked that in a train tunnel. That seems awfully weird.
00:26:07
Speaker
I too think it's weird but also like where I grew up a lot of kids until one kid almost got kidnapped literally they would let us walk home and some of the kids that walked home walked quite a distance but if you walked on the railroad tracks you had to go through a train tunnel and so maybe it and because it was that's creepy literally in the back door of the school yeah and scary yeah
00:26:36
Speaker
And sometimes they have these little inlets in them where somebody could easily be standing and jump out. Yeah. Nope. I'm out. Yep. Not for me. Nope. Me neither. But as you can see, search efforts were very extensive. Yeah.
00:26:55
Speaker
And we're going to talk even more kind of about what happens in the days that are falling. But over 1,300 searchers from Oregon, Washington and California helped look for Chyron in those initial days. And the search was right around 10 days. And it was one of the largest in Oregon's history.
00:27:15
Speaker
It did involve 65 detectives and 60 trained searchers, then along with all those volunteers as well. And they focused mainly on a two mile radius. So around the elementary school and the surrounding areas.
00:27:33
Speaker
It's weird because they're at first the two mile radius around the elementary school. And then something switches and they start looking at Sauvie Island, which is about six miles away from school. But police, from what I've read, still to this day, have never revealed why that's been an area of focus in their searches. My guess is there was a tip that sounded credible. That's my guess anyway.
00:28:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I think too. And like we've talked about before, the problem was because the science fair was a public thing. Police were a little lost on where to start because there wasn't, you know, somebody strange that came to school and people would have noticed because there were multiple people in and out. Right. Yeah. By noon the next day,
00:28:31
Speaker
So we're now June the fifth, a sheriff's spokesman said in a news conference that the search for Kyron is at that point still considered a missing person's case and not a criminal investigation. So they're just trying to find a kid. OK, so they're thinking he's wandered away. Yeah, at this point, I think he's just left. Right. I guess with no sign of struggle and nobody reporting anything.
00:29:02
Speaker
Then it's hard to justify, I guess, saying a kidnapping or something. Yeah. And then, cause at this point, it's just like he fell the, the school ate him up. Like he's nowhere. There's no sign of anything. Right. According to an Oregon newspaper, the Portland public schools use that rapid system again to tell staff and parents that the students that were at school on Friday,
00:29:28
Speaker
needed to come to the school on Sunday for debriefings by police and federal agents. That would be so scary for those kids, but they need to find out. Did anybody see anything?
00:29:42
Speaker
So this school was K through eight and they say the older kids, you're gonna come in at 10, kindergartners and first graders, you're gonna come a little bit later in the day. So they want all of these kids that were there to come in. Later that day on June 5th, between four and 8 p.m., there are two news conferences that are held and it is then announced that the FBI and National Guard have joined the effort to find Kyron.
00:30:10
Speaker
and search and rescue crews complete what's called an immediate grid search around that two mile radius around the school. That same night a Facebook group was created for people to join for updates and to show support for his family. So one positive of social media right there.
00:30:34
Speaker
At least we got that. And they still have a very active, yeah, they still have a very active Facebook group. Efforts did not slow down the next day of June the 6th because by 9 that morning Stepmom Terry had posted on Facebook that she had ordered 1,000 flyers, missing persons flyers, and that they would be at their house and she wanted to let people know that they could come by to get those flyers so they could post them around the neighborhood.
00:31:03
Speaker
and around the city. Okay and just as announced on that day students were brought in and questioned. So around
00:31:12
Speaker
9.50 that morning, the first of 300 students and their parents arrived at the school to be interviewed by detectives. They had about 50 detectives on hand for interviews. And Allison, those interviews went from 9 a.m. until 4 p.m. At the same time, those interviews are taking place. Relatives had started passing out those missing persons flyers.
00:31:40
Speaker
with Kyron's description on it. So at the time of his disappearance, he was three feet and eight inches tall. He weighed 50 pounds. He had blue eyes and brown hair. And he was last seen wearing black cargo pants, white socks. He had on black Sketcher tennis shoes that had orange trim and then that black CSI shirt.
00:32:05
Speaker
So as you can imagine, I mean, because it's a public school, but they did receive an enormous amount of flack for their lack security measures, which, you know, they would.
00:32:22
Speaker
because this happened on school ground and really the procedures probably were pretty lax. I mean, I wasn't there, but if I had to guess, I would say they probably were. So at 3.30, their superintendent of Portland Public Schools appeared at a news conference and outlined a series of immediate steps that the district was going to take to address some security concerns in the wake of the second graders disappearance.
00:32:50
Speaker
And at this point, he still isn't considered kidnapped, but his disappearance was upgraded to an endangered child case by 9 p.m. Sunday, the sixth.
00:33:02
Speaker
And I'm guessing that's just because of how much time has passed. Right. Because at this point he is in danger of starving or the elements or, you know, dehydration. Many things. Yeah. Strangely, maybe again, this is just my Eastern Kentucky showing because we cancel school in Eastern Kentucky if like somebody coughs weird, like we kids little lot, but school is in session that Monday.
00:33:31
Speaker
They did have an increased amount of counselors on hand, but I thought that was odd. Maybe they thought the kids needed each other for support or just normalcy maybe. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:44
Speaker
By that evening, Kelly Ramirez, the sister of Kyron's birth mother, Desiree issued a statement thanking the community on behalf of the family for their ongoing concern and their outpouring support and all that stuff. Search and rescue efforts continued. And by June 8th, the Facebook group dedicated to Kyron posted the following quote, we're now working on a PayPal account.
00:34:13
Speaker
which will directly take your donations to the Kyron Horman Fund at Chase Bank. It will take PayPal a day or so to verify the account and become active. If you prefer to wait until that time, we will then place a donation button on the main homepage we have provided. We will keep you informed as to when that will be. It is our hope that this reward fund will prompt someone with the information police need to return Kyron home. I'm sure the outpouring of well wishes, prayers, and love sent by all of you
00:34:42
Speaker
is helping Karen's family through this very difficult time. So at this point, they're taking steps to kind of get something going to hopefully promote somebody to come forward with any information that they may know. And I feel like in the cases that we cover, I hope our listeners, they know us. And anytime we mention these funds too,
00:35:07
Speaker
I don't think a lot of people realize until they've been in these situations how expensive it is to keep the focus on your missing
00:35:20
Speaker
loved one because you do need enough money there that would be an incentive for somebody to come forward with information. You do need money to print these flyers, to travel, to do all of the things that you feel like you need to do in order to find justice. And so I feel bad for this family. I hope that they got donations to kind of help them in that process.
00:35:48
Speaker
And you know, some of the families that we talk about, they hire private investigators and that money is coming out of their pocket or funds like this. And it's quite expensive. Yes. And I do think they get a pretty good amount of money. I do think that people did show a lot of support in that way because it's hard to know how to help in that type of situation.
00:36:13
Speaker
But we talk a lot on the show about how people can be perceived by the public, right? So if you're homeless or a drug addict, you are somehow less worthy of coverage if you were to be found missing because you somehow had it coming to you because you're homeless or you're a drug addict. Which makes me so angry, but yes, that is the perception.
00:36:37
Speaker
Or if you're suffering from a mental illness and you are looked at as manic or too paranoid to have made the right choices to prevent something from happening. If you move away from the town where your loved one was last seen, you move too quickly and you must know more than what you're letting on. Or if the family decides to grieve in private, they're hiding something from the police, they're bad people. We're so quick to say,
00:37:05
Speaker
how things should go when we've never experienced what people are going through. And I think that Kyren's family experienced some of that negative perception because a lot of them refused to speak with the media in the early stages of the surge. They were a little more private about
00:37:30
Speaker
their grieving process and how they were involved in this search. And in those initial days, Terri ended up making her Facebook completely private. So you couldn't see anything if you weren't a friend of hers on there. Well, we also don't know what
00:37:49
Speaker
Sadly, people are saying to the family because I understand people wanting to help, but there are, for every person there is out there who's wanting to help, there are also people who are sending awful messages to these families or leading them on wild goose chases. And it's just, I understand wanting to be like, you know what? I'll get my information from the police. I don't need to get it from.
00:38:19
Speaker
other people. Right. And there's sometimes that life can be so overwhelming that you just can't do social media. Yeah. And you just need to be away from that. And I honestly respect that because sometimes it is healthier for your mental wellbeing to step away. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:38:46
Speaker
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00:39:58
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00:40:12
Speaker
We are now to June 9th, 2010, and that is what, five days since he was last seen. And so on that day, the Horman family finally released the following statement to one of the local newspapers there. They said, quote, and I'm assuming this came from like
00:40:35
Speaker
an attorney or extended family. Okay. Or was expressed through somebody like that. Okay. Because they say things like, Kyren's family would like to thank you or, you know, please keep Kyren's family in your prayers. Right. So it says, quote, Kyren's family would like to thank people for support and interest in finding their son. The outpouring of support and continued effort strengthens their hopes. We need for folks to continue to assist us in our goal.
00:41:03
Speaker
Please search your properties, cars, outbuildings, sheds, et cetera. Also check with neighbors and friends who may be on vacation or may need.
00:41:13
Speaker
assistance in searching. There are a lot of resources here to help you search, so please don't stop. It's obviously a difficult time and they want to speak to the public so they can hear it from Kyron's family as they come together to share their message. Their objective is to keep the focus on Kyron and not about anything else." And so that to me, like you said, makes me think they were getting some hateful messages in their inboxes.
00:41:42
Speaker
The following day is nothing out of the ordinary besides just the search and rescue really happened. Then on Friday, June 11th, Kyron's family appeared at a news conference for the first time. So they announced on the 9th, like they're wanting to get in the public eye, then on the 11th, they do. So Tony Young, Kyron's stepfather in this news conference said, well, we miss you, we love you, and we need you home now.
00:42:12
Speaker
And he of course goes on to thank all the volunteers in the community for their outpouring of love and support. And he was then followed by Cain Horman, so Kyron's biological father, who also talked about just how grateful the family was for the community, for all the help that they'd been given, and for all the searchers who are out there looking for their baby. Yeah.
00:42:37
Speaker
Sadly, by Sunday, June 13th, no further progress had been made in the search for Kyron. So at noon that day, the sheriff's office announced at a news briefing that the massive search for Kyron had ended and the case was being shifted to a criminal investigation.
Transition to Criminal Investigation
00:42:55
Speaker
But see, I feel like there has to be something that would make them
00:43:00
Speaker
Right. Make that switch. Mm-hmm. Because you could still think, oh, he just wandered off. Right. And something has happened. This thing endangered. Right. Yes. Yeah. But now we're saying this is a criminal investigation. Someone took him. Right. And like I said, the search went on for about 10 days and it was the largest in state history. Gosh. So I will say
00:43:30
Speaker
Actually, you know what? I'm not going to say that right now. I'm going to wait a minute. I'm going to wait a little while now. I'm curious. Okay. On Tuesday, June the 15th, the school year finally came to an end at skyline elementary school. And that same day, the sheriff's dive team was spotted on a property near the Hormone home and they showed a pair of glasses similar.
00:43:55
Speaker
That was the word that I read, similar to those Kyron Moore that had been shown on the news. I don't know if they were his because the words say similar, but I'm guessing they showed them in case people saw them laying around or saw a kid that had that type of glasses on. Oh, so these aren't glasses they found. They're just saying, look for a kid with glasses like these.
00:44:25
Speaker
Yeah, because the glasses are similar to the ones that he had. But for some, you know, the end of the school year was a breath of fresh air. But for others, they felt that it ended too quickly and the kids got very little closure. In an interview with Oregon Live, Beth Smith, who was a parent at Skyline, said, quote, I'm disappointed the year's over already because I think the kids
00:44:50
Speaker
need each other right now. She's still scared, meaning her daughter. Her whole security has been taken away from her. And Beth's daughter was actually Kyren's reading partner. Aw. And you think about the impact of that. I've just been sitting here thinking about his family, but gosh, his classmates seeing an empty seat. This little girl who was his reading partner. Yeah. And can you imagine
00:45:18
Speaker
like having that conversation with first grade students. The school that I'm at right now, we had a teacher right when I started.
00:45:28
Speaker
that he had been gone almost the whole school year, but he passed away from cancer. And a lot of my kids had him last year because they were in fifth grade and he taught fifth grade. And so we had to have a conversation with them about that. And even at that age, you know, they're 11 and 12 and sixth grade was so hard. And I can't imagine having to do that to a classroom of first graders. I can't either. I would definitely have to call in some
00:45:58
Speaker
people that are way more skilled in that area right right so that same day investigators released a digitally altered picture of Kyron without the glasses and I think that's kind of why they're like he may have glasses on that look like these or he could look like this and in
00:46:21
Speaker
I'm assuming that they did that in case he was spotted without those glasses. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So now you see what he looks like with them and on and with them off. That same day, 30 billboards went up in the metro area. They did 10 in English, 10 in Spanish, and 10 in Russian. And they had Kyren's picture and they had hotline numbers on there for people to call. They also held a vigil for the little boy at
00:46:51
Speaker
a local church. I mean, it sounds like they're doing everything that I would hope law enforcement would be doing. Yeah. I feel like in all of the research that I did, oftentimes we read about all of these mistakes that law enforcement made or things they overlooked or they could have done better. I feel like this is a case where they're doing all they can.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah, from everything that you've told me, that's exactly what it sounds like. I mean, I would be grateful for how much, I mean, even thinking to put all of the billboards in various languages. Right. I mean, they're trying to think of everything, even showing the picture with and without glasses, just in case. Yep. And you kind of touched on this earlier about, I guess, the downfalls of social media.
Suspicion on Stepmom Terry
00:47:46
Speaker
But you know, as you can imagine, rumors quickly spread around the city. So there were rumors that Karen's body had been found. It hadn't. There were rumors that someone in the family had something to do with his disappearance. Maybe they did. I'll let you decide. Oh no. So we're going to discuss. There's one.
00:48:13
Speaker
very big theory. And then maybe like one or two.
00:48:19
Speaker
smaller theories. Okay. But as we're discussing the theories, as we continue to discuss what happened in the investigation in those weeks that followed the disappearance. So theory one is going to maybe come as a surprise, but we are going to first talk about Terry. The stepmom. Okay. Yeah.
00:48:45
Speaker
A lot of people have strong opinions about her. And at the start of the investigation, she seemed like a worried loved one. You know, she got all those missing persons, posters that she's giving people to pass out and all of this stuff. But something apparently changed that made investigators turn more attention to her. Hmm.
00:49:10
Speaker
I read in several articles that in late June, so the height of the investigation, Kane, who is Kyron's dad, was told by investigators that Terry had plotted to kill him. And maybe this is like when investigators say, perhaps we need to look at this woman a little bit more. Oh, yeah. I was not expecting this. This came out of nowhere for me. Yeah. Apparently,
00:49:38
Speaker
Terry had offered their landscaper Rodolfo Sanchez, quote unquote, a lot of money to kill her husband. Sanchez testified in a deposition that Terry approached him about killing her husband in January of 2010. So five months before Kyron's disappearance. Yeah. Oh, of course, in her own deposition, she denies these claims.
00:50:08
Speaker
But obviously there must have been some credence there because police end up convincing Sanchez to confront Harry while he's wearing this audio surveillance device. He's wired. Yeah. To see if they can get her or he can get her to admit
00:50:29
Speaker
to yeah like yeah i wanted you to kill my husband i offered you money to kill my husband but they were unable to obtain any information so they couldn't make an arrest but then obviously kane is like well i'm definitely divorcing this lady and i'm definitely getting a restraining order against her so he had to have
00:50:53
Speaker
And that tells me the fact that he makes those moves, that he at least believes it plausible that she would have done something like this. It's not like the landscaper.
00:51:09
Speaker
If somebody said that you or I tried to do something like this, then whoever is saying the story would be like, you'd say, okay, there, there's something wrong with him because there's no way, you know? But the fact that he's taking these steps tells me he thinks it is possible. Yeah. And I read in one article that there were some 911 calls that went out.
00:51:40
Speaker
And it was involving Terry and Kane and how she was violating the restraining order. And then she had tried to kidnap the daughter because obviously Kane has the daughter right now because she's being investigated for a potential plot to murder Kane. So he has the daughter. And so there's a call that goes out that she's trying to kidnap the daughter and a bunch of back and forth. And so he's like, yeah, we're getting divorced. I am leaving you. Yeah.
00:52:12
Speaker
Also, interestingly, Terry failed not one, but two polygraph tests regarding the disappearance of her stepson. Which we know polygraph tests are not admissible. Right, but it still makes you raise an eyebrow. Yeah, it does.
00:52:31
Speaker
And if this were not enough, the sheriff's office ends up in June releasing a flyer asking parents and kids, Hey, do you remember this pickup truck? Do you remember any specific information regarding Terry, who is the owner of this pickup truck that was seen at your school on June 4th?
00:52:58
Speaker
So they're asking for specific information about her and her vehicle. That is interesting. And I will say now I'm not saying here that I believe this theory necessarily, but I will also say there is a stretch of time after going to the grocery store when there's really no alibi other than driving around.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what a bunch of people, even investigators go back to is there are potential holes in her timeline.
00:53:37
Speaker
Like that would be the same as saying, Oh yeah, I was home all day. Nobody else was home with me, but I binge watched Gilmore girls. There's no way for anyone to say if that really happened or not. Just her driving around in her car. So by late June, the two are divorced. There's those multiple 911 calls. There's court appearances. She tries to apparently kidnap the baby and another spat. She's apparently.
00:54:03
Speaker
leaking investigative, confidential investigative information to one of Kane's friends. So she's not keeping all that as she should. Kyren's biological parents at this point are appearing on multiple morning news shows because they're hoping to keep attention on their son's case and not on all of this other side stuff that is happening. Yeah.
00:54:30
Speaker
During one interview, the two announced new details about the day that Kyron went missing from school. So his father was actually working at home that afternoon and they do go to the bus stop to meet him. But other than that,
00:54:46
Speaker
We're not getting a whole bunch of additional information other than the fact that he's at home that afternoon and that they go to meet him. The mom said quote it's like a portal opened up in school and Kyron just vanished into it. I mean that really is what it seems. Yeah.
00:55:05
Speaker
and apparently there was some legal document that went to his biological parents and their significant others and basically Terry is the only person in the group that did not sign this paper but they were all agreeing
00:55:25
Speaker
Yes, I will give my full cooperation to the investigation. Desiree signs it, Kane signs it, the stepdad signs it, but her name was not on that document anywhere. She then gains legal representation from a defense attorney, Stephen Howells.
00:55:45
Speaker
Again, I'm trying, I'm trying to play devil's advocate here. Right. That doesn't make her guilty. She could just be proactive. Like, Oh my God, I didn't do anything. And all these people are saying it's me. I need a lawyer. Yeah. And a fair point. I mean, you probably do. Right. Yeah.
00:56:03
Speaker
In August, police announced that they were searching for an individual allegedly seen by two witnesses that was sitting inside of Terry's truck outside of the elementary school on the day of the disappearance. And they believe finding this person is crucial to the investigation. Now this part
00:56:28
Speaker
I was kind of, cause I was like, I'm like you. I don't want, I don't know, Terry, or I don't, you know, I don't want to point blame to somebody without it. All the facts. Yeah. But then I read this and I was like, this is a little weird. So Terry's friend was brought in for questioning about some things that happened between her and Terry on the day Kyron disappeared. So apparently.
00:56:56
Speaker
This friend gets a phone call from Terry and abruptly leaves work around 11 30 the morning that Karen went missing. She just gets the call. I've got to go to my friend and she leaves work around 11 30. She's back 90 minutes later. Okay. She also
00:57:22
Speaker
helped Terri purchase an untraceable telephone, an untraceable cell phone. And this friend was questioned for three hours by police and even had her property searched. But during this whole questioning thing, she keeps telling investigators over and over again, if she thought Terri had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, if she thought she'd done anything wrong, she would have turned her in. She wouldn't have associated with her, like all of these things.
00:57:51
Speaker
how do we explain yeah away the untraceable telephone though how do we explain that away and what is she saying that she did where she had to just leave abruptly right and and go to work because i mean if if she had said oh my friend called she has a flat tire okay and then had terry said i had a flat tire around 11 30 i called my best friend she came and helped me change it
00:58:18
Speaker
Then I could say, okay, that's not weird. But Terry's isn't at this point that Terry's just driving her daughter around. Or at least she's just ended that and is going to the gym. Yeah. So that kind of throws either whatever was happening at this time, it throws it into question because obviously she can't be doing either one of those. If the friend is meeting up with her,
00:58:45
Speaker
Right. Unless she just says, Hey, I don't want to work out by myself. And the friend's like, okay, screw work and leaves to go work out with her for an hour. That doesn't make any sense. That's not an urgent. I have to leave work to go meet with my friend right now. Kind of a phone call. Right. That wouldn't be described as a need for you to abruptly leave work.
00:59:06
Speaker
The investigation did continue, Allison. By early 2010, Kyron's parents and principal were subpoenaed and they testified in front of a grand jury.
Legal Proceedings and Costs
00:59:15
Speaker
In December of the same year, it was reported that the grand jury had yet to provide compelling evidence yielding a potential indictment. By November of that same year, search efforts had cost the state of Oregon around 1.4 million dollars and they had
00:59:35
Speaker
almost 5,000 tips that had come in about his disappearance, which is a lot. Yeah. If you think you're exploring every single one.
00:59:45
Speaker
There's easily or 1.4 million. Yeah, easily. In May of 2017, there were reports that the grand jury had continued to hear evidence about Kyren's disappearance on several occasions. In June, his mom posted on their official Facebook group, quote, stay tuned. Something big is coming. I promise you. Oh, but I don't know what the big thing was. Oh, cause there's nothing I don't know.
01:00:16
Speaker
Is it still yet to happen? Maybe, maybe it has something to do with these, like the grand jury stuff. I don't know. I don't know. Kyron's biological mom went on to file and eventually dropped because she felt that it was hindering the investigation and finding her son, a civil suit against Terry claiming that she was responsible for the disappearance of her child. Wow.
01:00:44
Speaker
What I found interesting, there's so many things I have found interesting in this case, is that Terry's attorney refused to answer any of the 142 questions posed to her during the deposition of this civil suit regarding this lawsuit. Not one.
01:01:00
Speaker
So among these questions were like, where were your whereabouts on June the 4th? So she didn't answer any of that. She also declined to identify a photo of Kyron during a testimony provided by Kane and a separate hearing of the same year. He stated that police had actually told him that they had more probable cause to think Terry was involved in his son's disappearance than they had two years ago. So they're still building this evidence against her.
01:01:31
Speaker
I know this is hearsay because he's saying it and it's not the police who are saying it, but I don't know why. I mean, unless there's anger there from a divorce, I don't know why he would have a reason to say that. And I feel like I don't know Cain, but I feel that because he had such a nice co-parenting relationship with
01:01:57
Speaker
Desiree. The mom, yeah. That I don't see him saying something out of like malice. Though I guess him divorcing Desiree on mutual terms versus him divorcing Terry because she potentially had a plot to murder him. Right. Two different things. Different circumstances. Yes.
01:02:21
Speaker
But as I did mention in 2013, Desiree does go on to drop the lawsuit because she felt that it was interfering with the police investigation to find Kyron. And that is obviously priority. Right. Now, there are also going to be, because you know us people, you know that especially Allison plays devil's advocate.
Terry's Denials and Alternate Theories
01:02:43
Speaker
Whereas I'm sometimes like it was this person, but I feel like we both played devil's advocate quite a bit today. And there are a lot of people who say that Terry had nothing to do with the disappearance of Kyron. She did appear as a guest on the Dr. Phil show on 2016. And while on the show, she said the following quote, I was advised from the beginning by law enforcement, by my husband at the time, by attorneys in the beginning not to say anything.
01:03:13
Speaker
I've always wanted to. I've asked multiple times to speak out and haven't been allowed." She also, on the Dr. Phil show, denied having any involvement in Kyron's disappearance and also stated
01:03:31
Speaker
that it was her belief that he was kidnapped. So she said, quote, there was a man in a white pickup truck, a Ford parked on highway 30 at the 7-Eleven, which isn't near the school. He was acting very strange and he was addressed by one of the employees because he had been pacing back and forth in front of the 7-Eleven for about an hour, end quote. Okay, that's completely off topic to me.
01:03:55
Speaker
Right. Unless the pickup truck, I think is what she's getting at, is similar to the one that she drove. And so I think she's saying, you could have seen a pickup truck like mine at school, but it wasn't me that was driving it. It was this weirdo that was spotted at the 7-Eleven pacing back in front of, like back in front of the door.
01:04:17
Speaker
I've been playing devil's advocate this whole time. It's this comment. This seems off the wall to me. Why bring up a truck that's similar to hers that was at a 7-11, but it's not even near the school. I understand if it were near the school.
01:04:34
Speaker
I don't know if she's trying to say he was running or leaving a potential crime scene. He was on his way out of town. He was acting weird because he was pacing. I don't know. Okay. Then I guess we could say the second possibility could be this man in the Ford.
01:04:50
Speaker
I didn't really read a lot about this 7-Eleven man. We know police were looking for a second person. Could this 7-Eleven man slash Ford man be the second person that they were looking for? Maybe people are trying to turn an eye towards the second guy and take some focus off other people. Again,
01:05:16
Speaker
with so many people in and out for the science fair. Right. Listen, I know there's a lot of information about the stepmom here. I know. Right. Because a lot of
01:05:27
Speaker
the news articles are dedicated to this information. But I just still, I don't know if that's maybe the nature of the cases that we cover, but there's just still part of me that really wonders. Could it have been
01:05:47
Speaker
Somebody that maybe stopped and selected Kyron at the science fair. I mean, there's a lot of weird people. And if an elementary school is open to the public, we're not really monitoring who's coming in and out because it's science fair day. Creepy people are going to take advantage of that.
01:06:07
Speaker
Could that have been the case here and that he was taken by someone in a circumstance similar to what you said? Oh, I really loved your project on frogs. I have some frogs. Would you like to come see them? I mean, he's seven. Right. It really is. I know you're going to ask me my opinion. So I'm just jumping, jumping right in. Right ahead. It really is a
01:06:35
Speaker
a prime situation for someone who would prey on a child. And the reason I'm hesitant to say the stepmom isn't because there aren't shady things, because obviously you've mentioned about 50 bajillion that seem off the wall enough where people would be like, well, if she's capable of that, then
01:07:04
Speaker
Maybe she did have something to do with it. We talked earlier, people react in ways that we can't predict, we can't expect, and it doesn't necessarily mean that they're guilty because of the ways that they react.
01:07:22
Speaker
I personally, even if I'm being accused of something, if people are asking me questions and I had nothing to do with it, I would answer questions. I would provide photos. I would still want to bring this child home because no matter what crap I had with the parents, this is an innocent child. And so that would be how I react. That doesn't mean everybody else will.
01:07:51
Speaker
So it could just be that maybe she just wanted to distance herself from everything. Maybe her lawyer advised her not to say much of anything. And I do feel like even if all of that were true, that she did talk to the contractor or whatever he was.
01:08:14
Speaker
to say that she wanted to. Oh, the landscape guy. Yeah. To hire somebody to hurt her husband. And maybe this is just me. But to me, there's a huge difference between hurting an adult. Oh, and a child. Yeah. And so I guess I'm just getting caught up in that. Not to say that. And I feel that I need a motive. Yeah.
01:08:40
Speaker
Like why did, why did we want to kill the husband? First of all, then was that somehow connected to the child's disappearance? Like would those things go hand in hand? What, and if not, if let's say that the murdering the husband was completely a lie, then what is the motive with the kid? I just don't understand. Yeah. Yeah. So I,
01:09:11
Speaker
I understand and I don't agree, but I understand where people are coming from when they doubt the stepmom. I get it. I just don't know if there's enough there yet that I could necessarily jump on board and say, yes, she did it. I'm convinced because
01:09:41
Speaker
I'm not convinced. There are other possibilities, namely the one we talked about that many people off the street could have come into the science fair, and we might not even know who all was there, and sees stepmom leave and uses that as prime opportunity.
Family's Grief and Podcast Call to Action
01:10:04
Speaker
Kyron would now be 21 years old. There is not a day that goes by that his family doesn't long to see him again, or at least know what happened to him. To close out today's episode, I want to leave you with part of a letter his mother wrote to him after he went missing.
01:10:21
Speaker
Quote, I will give anything to run my fingers through your short hair again. I miss having you to hug you anytime I want. Not time is always hard for me. I miss you so much and I want you back here so that I can protect you from all the horrible things in this world. I just can't believe that you aren't still with us.
01:10:44
Speaker
I pray that you come back to me because I'm afraid I can't live without you. I miss you every second of every day. I would give my life for yours. I just want you back safe. You must come back to us. Deputies asked anyone with details about Kyron's disappearance to call the MCSO Tip Line at 503-988
01:11:13
Speaker
0560 or the NCMEC tip line at 1800 The Lost.
01:11:22
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:11:51
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.