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E224: Danielle Imbo and Richard Petrone, Jr.
3.7k Plays11 months ago
It was a spur-of-the-moment date in Philadelphia. They hadn’t seen each other in weeks and even them meeting up on the evening of Saturday, February 19th, 2005 was coincidental. But the two of them (and the vehicle they were in) vanished that night without any clues pointing investigators toward one theory or another. So why do officals now believe that the disappearance of that pair-- Danielle Imbo and Richard Petrone, Jr-- was the result of a murder-for-hire plot? And might YOU or someone you know be the one who can finally connect the final dot so the two families can put their loved one to rest.
Would you like to donate to the reward fund in Danielle and Richard’s case? Those donations may be made to the following address:
The Citizen’s Crime Commission
1218 Chestnut St., Suite 406,
Philadelphia, PA 19107
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Transcript
John's Personal Loss and Quest for Answers
00:00:00
Speaker
When many of us see snow blanketing the ground, it puts us at peace. We dream of the fun we will have making snow angels, building snowmen, making snow ice cream, or of the quiet moments to be spent inside in the warmth, looking out on the scenes outside our window. For others, it reminds us of the ability of snow to cover up all the dirt and mud underneath to make the world look majestic.
00:00:29
Speaker
But for John Autobre, Snow reminds him of the loss of his sister and of the lack of direction in pursuing justice in the decades old case. Imagine being in this huge snow cover field and you're standing in the center and there's not a footprint in any direction. And you have to figure out which way to go. You just don't know which way to go.
00:00:54
Speaker
And there wasn't a clue, there wasn't any type of physical evidence because even if there were, it got plowed away. So it was like the perfect storm of things that happened throughout the night. And we just, from that moment, I just never stopped looking for.
Introduction to Danielle and Richard's Cold Case
00:01:13
Speaker
This is the case of Danielle Imbo and Richard Petrone Jr.
Podcast Hosts: Allison Williams and Maggie Dameron
00:01:54
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:02:03
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:02:13
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Maggie, as you could tell by the intro, I had the absolute honor of speaking with Danielle's brother John for our coverage and his sister,
00:02:43
Speaker
is one of the two victims at the center of our case this week. And I just pray that our listeners do what they do best and listen and share this case because we say it every week. I'll say it again. We never want any family to feel like they are alone and fighting for answers. And I feel like that little, I guess, metaphor or analogy was so sad. I know.
00:03:12
Speaker
I know. And now I feel like I'll never look at snow the same way. Same. I was just thinking that. Yeah. Now, obviously, mostly, because I know more about Danielle in this case, I am going to start by telling you a little bit about Richard, and then we'll get into the portion of the case that I know more about.
Profiles: Richard Petrone and Family Ties
00:03:37
Speaker
Richard Petrone Jr. was born on August 29, 1969 to Richard and Margaret Petrone. According to an article in Crimewire by Michelle Short, quote, described as hardworking, laid back, family oriented and compassionate, Richard was a devoted single father to his 14 year old daughter, Angela, and worked at his family's bakery, Viking Pastries,
00:04:06
Speaker
in Ardmore, Pennsylvania. Richard loved music, especially rock. Additionally, he enjoyed watching sports and was a fan of the Chicago Bears," end quote. Well, I do love a good pastry. Me too. I've got lots of favorites in the pastry world.
00:04:26
Speaker
In addition to those loves Maggie, he loved watching all sports, including NASCAR. This is side note, but my dad also loves NASCAR. My brother-in-law also loves NASCAR. Oh, yeah. So I have gone to several NASCAR races, but the last one that I went to was actually in Daytona. We went to the Daytona 500 and it was the one where Dale Earnhardt died.
00:04:56
Speaker
stop it yep i was there i feel like for a lot of people for that group of people that's like a jfk moment you know like they would know where they were at when that happened wow yep i was there but yeah so richard love nascar he also had a talent
00:05:17
Speaker
in making cakes for the bakery that he discovered while in pastry school. And his specialty was a shaved chocolate cake. You'd have to butter the sides of the door to get me through if I worked at a bakery. Me too. I'd eat all the profits. But more than his interest, Maggie, and his talents, his deepest love was for his family. It sounds like.
00:05:42
Speaker
He would get together with his family every week for a family dinner. And even though he was young when his daughter was born, he quickly learned how to be a girl dad. Yes. When his daughter was young, he had custody of her.
00:05:58
Speaker
and had learned to braid her hair, do all of the girl dad things. Have you seen the video where the dad used like the vacuum cleaner hose to the ponytail? Oh, yep. I just saw it, I don't know, 30 minutes before we started recording. Now, as his daughter was getting older, his daughter obviously had more interest in spending time with her mom.
00:06:21
Speaker
And Richard actually supported that decision. He loved his daughter. He wanted her to make honestly whatever choices she felt best and support her in those decisions. Sounds like a really good dad. He relished the time that he still had with his daughter, Angela, which was quite a bit, even though she was living with her mom. And her name was actually tattooed on his arm. Yeah.
00:06:48
Speaker
And of course he still loved to spend time with the rest of his family too at the bakery. In fact, Richard lived right above the bakery and he was often up in the early hours getting items baked before opening for the day. Yeah, that would be a problem for me because I love to sleep. And I feel like when you work at a bakery, you got to be up super early to get the breakfast rush.
00:07:13
Speaker
Ronnie told me there used to be this commercial where somebody was dragging themselves out of bed and they said, it's time to make the donuts. And it's like 3 AM or something like that. And we enjoy the product of the baking, the actual baking.
00:07:32
Speaker
leave that to the professionals. So it was a business, yes, but it was also this daily way to spend time with his parents, to whom Richard was also extremely close as he was to his sister, Christine, as well.
Danielle's Family Background and Career Steps
00:07:49
Speaker
Now, Richard's sister, Christine, just happened to be childhood friends with Danielle Imbo, who grew up as Danielle
00:08:02
Speaker
Otobre, John Otobre, who I interviewed, his sister. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So there's our initial connection between the two. So I'll tell you a little bit about Danielle now.
00:08:16
Speaker
And I'm going back a little bit because I learned a little bit about the family history, so I just wanted to share with you. Daniel's grandfather had been an orphan given the name Giovanni Otobre, or John October, since he was given in the month of October. So that was the name he was given.
00:08:40
Speaker
So when Danielle and John's father began a music career as a doo-wop singer who was signed with Capitol Records. I feel like this family though, what a rich history of things just in these couple of sentences. Yes. Yeah. So their dad, doo-wop singer signed with Capitol Records. This isn't just some small artist. He had made it.
00:09:08
Speaker
So it made sense when he started that career that he chose the stage name, Johnny October. Yeah. So after, you know, his father and Danielle and John's grandfather, when the music scene shifted with the popularity of the Beatles, that's kind of when
00:09:28
Speaker
Doo Wop wasn't as much in vogue. So while John Otobre was still a local celebrity, he really relished his role as father to Danielle born August 7th, 1970.
00:09:45
Speaker
and then three years later to son John. Who's who you interviewed. Correct. Yes. When I asked John about his favorite memories growing up with Danielle, here's what he said. Danielle was like
00:10:02
Speaker
I was like her doll because she was three years older than me. And we were born in San Philadelphia and we moved to New Jersey when I was five. But there's so many pictures of her when she was three and four holding me like a doll. My mother said I was like her doll. And I can tell you this for certain. This is the craziest thing that one of the things my mother and I still talk about
00:10:30
Speaker
I can never, and my mother, can never, ever remember a time in our entire lives that her and I argued as siblings. We got along like best friends from the time we were little, and it had a lot to do with her because she was the older sibling. She took the lead on that. But we never argued. We never saw it. We never bickered.
00:10:56
Speaker
she always had my back we as we got older we became not only you know we were siblings we became close friends and
00:11:06
Speaker
whether her boyfriend or her husband and my wife, when I was dating, we'd go out on weekends together. We vacationed together, the four of us. We were always together on Sundays. The fondest memories are Sundays, sitting around the television football, the four of us. We were always together. And we enjoyed each other's company.
00:11:31
Speaker
That was the crazy part. We just never argued. My mother said, you guys never ever bicker, never fought, never argued. Wow. And I think that says a lot about her. Yeah. So were you watching the Eagles?
00:11:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, we had a ritual, you know, we, uh, before sports gambling was legal. We, uh, we had a ritual. We'd wake up Sunday mornings. We'd take the newspaper out. We'd spread the paper out, you know, the, the Philippine choir at the time, they had the helmets, the two helmets facing each other and a little paragraph of the matchup of the day and the point spread.
00:12:04
Speaker
and her and I would sit there and we'd make our picks for the day and my mother would be making breakfast and we'd sit there and watch football all day long and be either screaming at the TV or cheering at the TV. I would bury my head in the cushions of the couch and if I needed a field goal to win, I'd bury my head in the cushion and I'd be like squeeze my head, squeeze my head if it makes the field goal, squeeze my head. It was just great times, just great, great times.
00:12:29
Speaker
Isn't that the cutest? I know. In addition to those fond memories, John also recalled to me how alike his sister and his father were. He said that they both loved to entertain
00:12:44
Speaker
And Danielle definitely inherited a love of music and singing. She sang locally from their father. John joked that they were each other's biggest fans and that if there were a get together and Danielle were going, his dad would definitely be there and vice versa. But if she weren't going, he'd have to think about it.
00:13:08
Speaker
And John said that they both had this confidence about them that they could just walk in and own the room because they were both so charismatic. He said people were just drawn to them. And I think when you see a picture of Danielle, that charisma shines through. So Maggie, here is a picture of her.
00:13:34
Speaker
So before you started talking about that, I saw the picture and that is honestly what I thought. I was like, look at her. She looks like somebody you would want to talk to. Like if you were at the same party as her, like you would want to be friends with her or at least introduce yourself to her. She just looks really friendly and like she would be just a good person to know. Yeah. She looks very welcoming and fun and she's beautiful.
00:14:02
Speaker
She was five foot five, 105 pound, brown haired, hazel eyed, bombshell, really. And she's got this red lipstick on. Yeah, with the red nails. Yeah, and it's just, it's confidence and a sense of welcome at the same time. Yeah. And even though she was a local singer, she wasn't one though, John said, that you would find hanging out in the clubs.
00:14:32
Speaker
He said, really, she was a homebody. So even though she, yeah, she just looks fun and inviting. He said her favorite place was just to be at home. And I feel that because that's us. Yeah, for sure. John told me that what she loved best was sitting at home doing crossword puzzles and devouring true crime novels.
00:14:55
Speaker
Oh my God, she would be our best friend. I mean, I've never heard a better description of us than that. Yeah, give us a donut and a hot chocolate. When Danielle was 21 and working at a local casino, she actually met an Italian man, eight years her senior.
00:15:18
Speaker
And after only a few months of dating, they announced that they were getting married. Okay. But even though he was older, it was actually Danielle who wanted to stay at home while he still wanted to go out all the time. And it was that difference in lifestyle that led to their divorce after only about a year of marriage. Well, I do think that'd be kind of hard.
00:15:43
Speaker
The divorce luckily was amicable, at least even if he still wanted to have the, you know, all out doing stuff lifestyle. He was adult enough to say, you know what, it didn't work. Yeah. So and the two didn't own a home together or have children. So that marriage dissolved rather quickly.
00:16:06
Speaker
and Danielle moved back home. And again, she was quite young, even though she was actually more the let's get settled down type. After moving back, Maggie, she began her career with a mortgage company. She continued to sing. Several articles actually said that she sounded like Janice Joplin when she performed and working to secure her own future.
00:16:32
Speaker
So she's now saying, okay, I'm going to buckle down. I'm going to focus on my career. Several years later, when Danielle was around 30, she married a man that she had been dating named Joe Imbo. And fitting with how close Danielle and her brother John were, John's then girlfriend, now wife, Jodi, and Danielle, and Joe with John,
00:17:00
Speaker
were all for always hanging out with one another. They were inseparable. So basically, Danielle and John's wife Jodi, best friends, Joe and John, Danielle's brother, best friends. That's awesome. Yeah. So here's John talking about that relationship.
00:17:21
Speaker
It was great. He was one of my best friends. That's just it. My sister Danielle and my wife Jodi, when I brought my wife home, we went on a date, we came home. Like the next couple of dates, I brought Jodi home to meet my family. And Danielle and Jodi just hit it off instantly, became best friends. And I would get home from work. And my wife at the time, we were just dating, she would be like in the kitchen.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I would look at her and be like, did we have plans tonight? And she'd be like, oh no, I'm going out with Danielle. And I'm like, oh, okay. Or like, I'm like, yeah, cause I'm going out with the guys tonight. She's like, yeah, that's fine. I'm staying home with Danielle and your mom. We're playing cards. We're drinking coffee. That was the thing. Cards and coffee. Love it. Like anytime our door was the house that everybody came to, all the kids came to, all my sister's friends, all my friends, the door was always open. And
00:18:12
Speaker
at any time you could come to my parents' house and the pot of coffee was on and somebody was sitting at the table, the kitchen table, who was playing cards or who was playing, you know, watching TV or reading the paper. It was like the open door. So yeah, like Jody would be there like, oh no, I'm going out with Danielle. So I had that same type of relationship with Jo, like when she first started bringing him around, we became close. Yeah.
00:18:35
Speaker
And I got him a job because he was from New York. He wasn't from this area. I got him a job at the dealership I worked at. And so we worked together. We hung out on the weekends together. We went out together. We vacationed together. The four of us were always together.
00:18:51
Speaker
Now, John mentioned there that Joe was from New York, but he had also previously lived in San Diego, where he had lived this sort of carefree surfer lifestyle. And even though Joe and Danielle went on to get married and settle down in New Jersey, Joe was
00:19:15
Speaker
always kind of wanting to go back to that carefree surfer life and for them to move. So like Danielle's first husband, Jo, too, loved to go out and do things. Danielle obviously was still her same homebody self, and she was actually the breadwinner in the relationship. Even the house that they bought was in her name. Good for her.
00:19:44
Speaker
And in 2003, the couple welcomed a son whom they named Joe Jr. And between Danielle and Joe having a son and John and his wife Jodi having twin boys. Yes. The Otobre family, which was already incredibly close, grew even.
00:20:07
Speaker
closer. So much bigger. Yeah, exactly. Now they would get together not only for meals, but for family vacations, all kinds of stuff. And Daniel's brother, John, and
00:20:21
Speaker
Daniel's husband, Joe, even created a tradition of their own, but a tradition that one year in 2004, when John didn't attend, turned into something that would change everyone's world and turn it upside down.
The Impact of Joe's Departure on Danielle
00:20:43
Speaker
Here's John. So Joe and I started this tradition.
00:20:48
Speaker
that we were going to go to Super Bowl every year. And then as the kids got older, meeting my two boys and my nephew, we would start taking left. So we went a couple of years in a row, just the two of us, the boys were infants. The third year, the boys were, I don't even think they were one yet.
00:21:04
Speaker
And my wife Jodi and both my kids, my sister and my nephew were all deathly ill. Like full blown flu, deathly ill, the kid for sick. So I said to Joe, listen, I can't, I'm not going to go. I'm going to stay home. How am I going to leave Jodi and the boys home like this? I'm going to go out to New Orleans and go to Super Bowl. And Joe said, well, I'm still going to go. So I kind of,
00:21:33
Speaker
pissed me off a little bit, like how selfish could you be? So like I told my sister, I'm like, bring the baby over here and stay here with us. So you're not alone. And, you know, I'm home, I'll take care of you. And she said, no, no, I'll be fine. And so like my wife would get on the phone with her, come over, no, I'm fine. So I would be bouncing back and forth. Well, it's just like, I gave my ticket to a friend of mine.
00:22:00
Speaker
And we were going with a bunch of guys, a bunch of my friends, some of his friends. And here he met some young girl on a plane, on the plane ride, and wound up spending the weekend with her, came home, and walked into the door. And my sister was like, hey, Lori, that was everything. And he said, I'm leaving. Oh my gosh. I fell in love with somebody, and I don't love you, and I'm leaving. And in fact, he left. Wow. That a matter of fact. He was going a long weekend.
00:22:30
Speaker
Oh ma. Yeah.
00:22:34
Speaker
Maggie, when I say everyone was in shock, everyone was in shock. I mean, Joe was a guy they all felt like they knew. Rod, I mean, her brother's his best friend. Yeah. I mean, this is somebody whom they had grown to love, who they thought loved Danielle the same. And their kid? Yeah. And now he was saying this?
00:23:01
Speaker
I mean, even his family, John told me, was siding with Danielle. As they should. Yes, as they should. And they were trying to talk some sense into him. Like, listen, you've been with Danielle. You have a family. You are settled down. You know, you're an adult. This is somebody who you met on a weekend trip. Right. You don't even know this person.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, but he left and divorce proceedings began. Now, unlike Danielle's first marriage that ended amicably, this time she was blindsided and it really took a toll on Danielle who loved people with every fiber of her being.
00:23:51
Speaker
She was chain smoking. She lost a ton of weight. She cried all the time. Really, she blamed herself for Joe leaving. I mean, it was hard. Yeah, I cannot imagine. While she was grappling with life as a single mom now,
00:24:11
Speaker
And because he moved out of state. Wow. So she's not only navigating these feelings of loneliness, these feelings of what did I do to cause this, she's also now a single mom, having to navigate those issues. And again, just healing from the destroyed emotions left behind in the wake of the divorce.
00:24:36
Speaker
And it was during that time that Danielle ran into childhood friend Christine, who was also a single mom. So Danielle and Christine, who had been really close when they were younger, renewed their friendship because it's nice to have somebody to talk to who understands.
00:24:55
Speaker
because Christine had been through this process herself. And through Christine, Danielle also renewed a friendship with Christine's brother, Richard, who, as I talked about before, was also a single parent and had learned how to navigate that. So basically, then, the connection is with Danielle and Richard is Christine. Yes. OK.
00:25:24
Speaker
Exactly. But when Richard asked Daniel out, she was a little bit torn. Yeah. Some months had passed before all this is happening. But she she still had Daniel did some lingering emotions for Joe. Oh, I'm sure she did. Because again, it came out of the blue. Mm hmm.
00:25:49
Speaker
But Joe, by this point, was no longer with the girl from the Super Bowl, no shocker there, and was kind of toying with Daniel's emotions. I mean, acting like he wanted to get back together at the same time that he would make kind of these crass comments to her. So there's the criticism, but saying, hey, we should get back together. Sounds a little toxic.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, and where was I think so abrupt. I think that's kind of where her emotions are being toyed with a bit. And with Richard, she just didn't she didn't know if she was ready to date again. So she called her brother to ask for his advice. And here's what he said.
00:26:38
Speaker
She would cry on the phone with me. I don't know what to do. Do I take him back? I know if I take him back, you're never going to look at him the same again. Mom's never going to look at him the same again. I said, don't worry about me. Don't worry about mom. Worry about you. We have a family. If you love him and you want to take him back and forgive him, forget about how I feel about him. I support you. So it's whatever you want to do, whatever decision you make, you have our support 100%.
00:27:07
Speaker
and she just was so torn. In the meantime, going through all this, one of her closest childhood friends, she rekindled a relationship with, they bumped into each other, and this woman, Christine, was going kind of through the same thing. And so they became friendly, and Christine's brother, Richard, always had a crush on Danielle growing up.
00:27:33
Speaker
So Richard was, you know, single father and they just started talking and he asked her out on a date and, you know, she, what do I do? I said, Danielle, it's a good company. If you want to go out to a movie or go out to dinner, go live your life. Nobody says you got to date the guy or marry the guy, but if he wants to take you out to a nice dinner, you know him, you know his mother, you know his sister, go, go have fun. Oh, that was sweet. Yeah. And so she did.
00:28:01
Speaker
And then when she did, he said that that's when her ex Jo got jealous and kind of pushed even more for her to take him back. So it's one of those, he doesn't want her, but he doesn't want anybody else to have her. Now you see how all of this was weighing on Danielle emotionally. I mean, that's a lot.
Danielle and Richard's Final Night
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:27
Speaker
Add to that the fact that things were moving quickly once she did start seeing Richard. Maybe too quickly since Danielle wasn't even sure that she was ready to begin with. So Danielle decided that she actually needed to put a pause on her relationship with both men. You know, and that actually may have been a healthy choice for her. She needs maybe some time to focus on herself.
00:28:57
Speaker
Agreed. I think it was a very mature decision to make. So she told Richard that she still needed time to heal and to be alone, to learn how to navigate being a single mother. And she told the same to Joe.
00:29:11
Speaker
that she ended things with Richard, but that she still wanted a divorce. She did not want to get back together with either. Look at her being so strong. Yeah. So she said, I just want some space to breathe. I remember her calling me one night and crying and saying, I just want to be by myself. I don't want to date him. I don't want Joe back. I just want to concentrate on me and my son.
00:29:41
Speaker
And I said, well, then I support you. Whatever you want. I said, why don't you sell the house and move it with us? No, I don't want to do that. I want to be independent, but I just, I just want to be by myself. I don't want any man in my life. She kind of broke it off with Richard. He understood. He gave her the space. Joe didn't understand.
00:30:06
Speaker
working from home. She was fortunate enough where the company she worked for sold the value in her and they set up an office in her home so she could be home and work with the baby. So things were just starting to, although she wasn't out of it, there was some daylight. The divorce was moving forward. She made her decision. She wasn't taking him back. She wasn't going to date Richard. She was just going to work, concentrate on her son.
00:30:36
Speaker
one day at a time. Now, I'll pause here to say that from everything I read, Richard really was a loving person who had Danielle's best interest at heart. Even from the first time Daniel's brother John met him, Richard told John how much he loved and cared for Danielle and that he would always look out for her.
00:31:01
Speaker
And even though obviously saying the word love seems a little quickly, I think he actually was trying to convey just how much he wanted to protect Danielle. And even with the fact that Richard accepted her decision to be alone, even though he likely felt crushed by the news, I think says such good things about his character.
00:31:28
Speaker
Joe, on the other hand, and I don't want to bash his character, so I will just say that I do understand that when there's a lot of history there, there can also be a lot of negativity and lack of understanding as there was in this case.
00:31:49
Speaker
Not really to stick up for Joe, but just to say, like, just as it was hard for her to get over Joe, maybe he realized, oh, I screwed up. And now it's kind of hard for him to get over the fact that she's moving on and wants that independence in a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Joe did have a temper. I will say that though. John told me that it was more far more bark than bite.
00:32:19
Speaker
But there are some stories, and here's why I'm telling you this, there are some stories, if any of our listeners look up this case, that you will read about if you research it, that says that Joe, in one argument with Danielle, had grabbed the baby's high chair and hurled it against the wall. I mean, really making it sound like a
00:32:42
Speaker
a traumatic and physically violent situation. But Daniel's brother John said he was actually there when it happened and told me that that incident has been blown way out of proportion, that it was more Joe was moving the high chair out of his way and it fell. Like he bumped into it and it fell. So again, I think he's saying a lot of hurtful things.
00:33:11
Speaker
But according to John, Joe wasn't the physically violent sort. But John did say that Joe did verbally abuse Danielle during the process of the divorce, so much so that Danielle's brother John at one point had a confrontation with Joe about it. And that was the point when they were best friends, but John and Joe stopped speaking.
00:33:40
Speaker
Okay, I was gonna ask if they kept talking through all of this. Yeah, so that's when they stopped speaking, mostly because Danielle's brother John said that he knew because, again, remember, Danielle, she still does have feelings for Joe. And so John was mature enough as well to say, you know, if Joe and Danielle ever did decide to patch things up,
00:34:06
Speaker
or even get to the point where they're friendly, then her brother John didn't want to say anything he'd regret or destroy their relationship to the point that it would be irreparable if Joe and Danielle ever did get back together.
00:34:23
Speaker
So he says, you know what, best to just part ways. That's right, don't talk. But Joe also did call the bakery a couple of times when Daniela and Richard were going out on dates and Joe and Richard had exchanged some heated and potentially threatening words to one another. At some point too,
00:34:50
Speaker
John came over and actually changed the locks on Danielle's home as well because of this kind of constant toxicity. But by February 2005, the dust had started to settle and Danielle's life seemed to finally be getting into a rhythm.
00:35:13
Speaker
That's possibly why on February 19, 2005, Danielle made the split second decision that she did to see Richard again, though the evening didn't begin with that intention.
00:35:28
Speaker
Instead, Danielle and her mother, Felice, went to dinner with Richard's sister, Christine, and Christine's mother, Marge, because Danielle and John's mother, Felice, and Richard and Christine's mother, Marge, were also good friends. No. Yeah. So the girls are all out for a dinner. Okay. Even after Danielle and Richard had stopped seeing one another, so this is after she said, hey,
00:35:57
Speaker
I just need some time to myself. Danielle's family and Richard's family obviously remained close. Here's what John told me about that evening. Christine and Marj, my mother and Danielle, they went to chicken and pizza in South Philadelphia for dinner. Not unusual for them to do that. They've done it many times in the past. Richard,
00:36:25
Speaker
not knowing that my mother's Felice, not knowing that Felice and Danielle were out to dinner with Marge and Christine, calls Christine and says, what are you doing? And she said, I'm out to dinner with mom, Felice, and Danielle. And he went, oh, I'm at this bar on South Street. And he named a couple of people he's friendly with. I was calling to see if he wanted to stop by for a drink.
00:36:52
Speaker
As Danielle, she wants to come too. Now at this point, Danielle and Richard hadn't seen each other or talked to each other in about a month or two months. She had severed ties. You know, Valentine's Day had come and gone. They hadn't spoken. So like the relationship was, if you want to call it a relationship, there was nothing going on at that point. And it had been a little while. It wasn't like it happened a week prior.
00:37:22
Speaker
So I don't know what possessed Danielle, but Christine said I have to work tomorrow morning. I don't feel like going out. But Danielle said she'll meet you for a drink as long as you can get her home because she's got an appointment with me tomorrow at the hairdresser. And the baby's getting dropped off in the afternoon and she wants to make sure she's home in time.
00:37:45
Speaker
for the baby. So Richard said, yeah, to drop her off and I'll get her home. She can hang out, have a couple drinks and I'll get her home. So here's what we know of the evening based on the research that I completed. We know where the evening began for Danielle. As for Richard, he had just finished his own dinner and had decided to meet up with a couple of friends
00:38:11
Speaker
Anthony and Michelle for some live music. And as you heard John tell, Richard had initially called to see if his sister would come with him, not knowing that she was with Danielle and his sister had passed up the offer due to work the next day. But Danielle, she was game. Again, dust is settling. Things are looking up. Things are calmer.
00:38:33
Speaker
It's a baby free weekend. That's right, and a baby free weekend. So the four, Richard and Danielle and his friends Anthony and Michelle, met up at Abilene's Bar, located at 429 South Street in Philadelphia. And I don't know if anybody who's listening is not from the Northeast. The distance between areas of New Jersey and Philly, it's, I don't know, 20 minutes?
00:39:02
Speaker
It's close. I mean, this is not a long drive. So they're meeting at this bar in Philly. The weather, though, it was unseasonably cold. I mean, we are in February, but it was. And in Philadelphia. Yes, unseasonably cold, even for Philadelphia in February.
00:39:23
Speaker
And the snow that by the end of this weekend that we're talking about would total a foot and a half of snow had already begun to fall. But the friends, they were cozy, packed inside of this bar. And Daniel and Richard, according to his friends, seemed cozy.
00:39:46
Speaker
as well. Anthony and Michelle recalled that Danielle and Richard were sitting close to one another the whole night. They were seen stealing kisses and were even overheard going over their calendar for the next few days, seemingly trying to find a good time to get together again.
00:40:04
Speaker
So they seemed content and happy even. I love that for her. Anthony and Michelle asked if Richard and Danielle wanted to head out to another bar next, like, hey, let's skip this place. Let's go to this other one. But both Richard and Danielle declined. You see, they both had plans for the next day. Richard was a hair appointment. Exactly.
00:40:27
Speaker
She has hair appointments scheduled with Richard's sister, Christine, as her stylist. And then, of course, her ex, Joe, was going to bring Joe Jr. back from visitation. And Joe Jr., by the way, at this point is 18 months old. So to kind of give you a sense of how much time has passed. And Richard had plans to meet up with friends to watch the Daytona 500. Right. Nice car.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yes, and he was also going to pick up his daughter later that day. So with that, Danielle and Richard got up to leave and Richard's friend Anthony asked if they needed a ride to the truck because of the weather. The snow started to fall, it was very cold. But Richard made a comment about lucking out and getting a close parking spot. Then the two left.
00:41:17
Speaker
This was sometime just before midnight, around 11.45 p.m. And Richard's driving home. Correct. Remember, he said... She was like, I'll bring her and you would take her home. Exactly. Yes. The next morning, on Sunday, February 20th, 2005, Danielle's brother John showed up early at Danielle's home to make a repair that she had asked him to do just a few days before.
00:41:46
Speaker
So she had called me that like, that was, I think it was a Saturday night. They went out Friday on my way home from work. She called me and we were talking on my way home and she was crying again. You know, I just want to be by myself. I just, that's why I was so surprised. And she said, I need you to do me a favor. The baby ripped the curtains down. Can you come and hang them back up for me and fix it? There's a big hole in the wall where the anchor came out. I said, yeah, I'll come with, I'll come to the house and I'll fix it.
00:42:16
Speaker
So Sunday morning I woke up, I took a ride to the house, her car's out front. I have a key to her place, but I knock on the door and she doesn't answer. So I called my mother and I said, mom, I'm knocking at Danielle's and she's not answering. I don't want to just walk in if she's in case she's in the shower or anything. I don't want to scare her, but I see her car's here. Have you heard from her?
00:42:41
Speaker
And she said, oh, she may have slept at Richard's last night. And that's what I'm like, Richard's, what the hell are you talking about? And she's like, I was at the dinner last night that Danielle and I was margin Christine and Richard called and Christine dropped Danielle off to see Richard. And then Richard was going to give her job her own, but maybe they had a couple too many and she just decided to stay there. So I went in the house. You can tell nobody had been there.
00:43:09
Speaker
and I fixed the curtains and I left. I went to a family party for my wife's side of the family that day. I left my cell phone for whatever reason in the car. I get back out to the corner after the party and I have like 30 missed calls from my mother. So I call her and at this point it's like four or five o'clock. I call her and she answers and she's in full blown panic. Danielle never came home. Richard never came home. We don't know where they are.
00:43:38
Speaker
And I said, okay, I'll be right there. I dropped my wife and the kids off and I went over to my sisters and I walked in the door and it was my mother. My godparents were there, which is my mother's cousin. A couple of Danielle's friends, like there were people there. And everybody had this look on their face, like worried. And I'm like, where's the baby? And my mother said, Joe's on his way to drop him off now, he already called. And I told him Danielle had a run out.
00:44:07
Speaker
So I came over to watch the baby. So he's on his way. Joe gets to the house. He's got the baby bag, baby, everything. He walks in the house. He sees all these people on it. Of course, everybody looks like something's wrong. And he says, where's Daniel? And my mother said, Oh, she ran the Christine. She had to go help her do something. And you know, I was here and Johnny stopped over and this was stopped over. It was all coincidental. And he said something like an off the cuff remark and just left.
00:44:36
Speaker
And you know, in the middle of this tension-filled relationship, it does make sense to me why they lied to Joe. Yeah, I don't think he would have. I don't think it would have been a helpful response. No, yeah. The only thing that does is have the potential to be just another criticism. And at this point, they actually still had no idea where Daniel was. But the same was true with Richard.
00:45:04
Speaker
It was clear that Richard had not returned to his apartment in South Philly to watch the Daytona 500. He never met up with friends. He wasn't there in the bakery to help to get it ready to open for business and he wasn't there to pick up his daughter. Oh wow. Something was definitely wrong and they all knew it.
The Disappearance and Initial Reactions
00:45:26
Speaker
Of course, in an initial call to law enforcement, they were told that these are two adults. They would likely show up. And with it being less than 24 hours since the two were last seen, they were told they needed to wait. It's frustrating. But Maggie, they knew something was wrong. These are two responsible adults.
00:45:57
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:47:27
Speaker
to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next box while your subscription is active. Luckily, a distant relative of John's wife was a local police officer and knew the family enough to push for the station to go ahead and take the family's missing person report. Oh, that's good. Which thankfully they did.
00:47:55
Speaker
In the meantime, Daniel's brother John called Richard's dad and drove to pick him up before the two of them went into Philly to drive around. He said they went to every police station praying that all of this was just some big misunderstanding, that the two had been brought in for driving under the influence or something, right? That they're both being held and that would explain. There's some type of explanation. Exactly.
00:48:25
Speaker
But at each police station, they gave descriptions of the two, and they were met with responses that no one of those names nor descriptions had come in. And even though their hope dwindled with each no, the two continued their search. So now we're driving.
00:48:45
Speaker
What bridge do you think they would take? Well, maybe they would take Ben Franklin, they dropped him yellow. All right, let's take the Ben Franklin and we drive that to see if there's a car on the side of the road, in the woods, anything. We're driving slow on the shoulder. Well, maybe they took Tykoni. All right, let's go. And we were out, we were out from five, six o'clock that night until daylight.
00:49:06
Speaker
up and down all the streets in South Philly where they could have parked. We took every bridge to and from driving down the shoulder to see if there was a truck that veered off into the woods, maybe an accident. We went to every police station. We called every hospital. I mean, it was like calling all cars. We did everything we could think of doing. And then we're driving home, and neither one of us are saying anything to each other, but we both know, like,
00:49:35
Speaker
something really bad happened because we just know. The two of us were not dumb and we both know something bad happened. We just don't know what and why. And we just don't know what to say to each other to comfort each other because we couldn't find them. Wow. But Maggie, that's just the thing. The police couldn't find anything either.
00:49:59
Speaker
In fact, since Richard's friends had stayed inside the bar, we don't even know if Richard and Danielle turned right out of the bar or left out of the bar. No security footage? No. We have the comment that Richard made about parking clips, but we don't even know where they parked. And it seems that no one saw anything.
00:50:29
Speaker
You never found their vehicle? No. I asked Daniel's brother John about the area that this bar was located on 4th and South, which he said is the most happening place in South Philly, especially on a Saturday night. That it's bar after bar after store after bar, that this is the place where everyone goes to hang out.
00:50:53
Speaker
I mean, he estimated that there were probably hundreds, if not thousands of people who would have been out even though it was unseasonably cold for Philly and that the snow had started to fall. So then we have to assume when they left that it was just nothing abnormal or strange happened because no one has came to say anything. Right. No one noticed.
00:51:17
Speaker
It does still seem crazy to think that with that many people around that no one would even say in what direction the two had been walking in after leaving the bar. Because again, I mean, Danielle, she does have this kind of charismatic aura about her. I mean, I feel like if there were reports and photos, somebody would have been like, I saw that girl.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. But it really is what you said. And maybe the very reason why nobody saw them was because there were so many people.
00:51:53
Speaker
And that's why the two didn't stand out. Now in 2005, we were long before times like today when people have their cell phones out taking selfies or videos or social media posts or whatever, who may have caught something in the background of a photo. But you know what did have cameras in the area? ATMs. Oh, which I never would have thought about. I wouldn't have either. Police pulled the footage from the ATMs near the bar
00:52:23
Speaker
But Maggie, they didn't see Richard nor Danielle on any of them. Would they have had to walk by one of these bars, no matter which direction they turned? Or were these, they could have possibly walked by them? Or was it more, no, they had to. If they turned left, they had to walk by this bar, or this ATM. I got the sense from talking to John that there were maybe some side streets before you got to the ATMs.
00:52:51
Speaker
So then there's the assumption that maybe they were parked on one of those side streets. Okay. Then when police are saying, okay, well, they're not on the ATM footage, then law enforcement started looking at the bridges connecting Philadelphia and New Jersey. Like the toll bridges and things. Exactly. Because remember, Richard said he was going to take Danielle home.
00:53:16
Speaker
They were in Philly. He has to drive to New Jersey, and in order to get there, you need to cross a bridge.
00:53:22
Speaker
Sadly, here's the problem, Maggie. Those bridges connecting Philly and Jersey, the cameras only catch the cars coming into Philadelphia and not the other way around. Interesting. And even the tolls, which are primarily paid with easy pass, like this transponder that you Velcro to your front windshield, the tolls are only collected going into Philly and not going back into Jersey.
00:53:53
Speaker
So there is zero evidence that Richard and Danielle even made it back to New Jersey. Though we do know that they made it to Richard's truck, a 2001 black over silver Dodge Dakota pickup truck, license plate YFH2319, possibly with a NASCAR sticker on the back window, because it too, like I told you just a second ago, was missing.
00:54:23
Speaker
So obviously if they were abducted before they got to the vehicle. No, it would still be there, like it would have been found. Yes, the vehicle would still be there or people would have noticed. You know, I just thought of this too. It's snowing. So I feel like if something had happened, say they accidentally, they were driving under the influence, they accidentally went into a river or a pond or something like that, there would have been tracks in the snow.
00:54:51
Speaker
Well, we're going to get to that. So due to the foot and a half of snow that fell that weekend of Danielle and Richard's disappearance, by the time the area of the bars were properly searched for evidence by law enforcement, plows had come through and potentially destroyed anything of significance that had been left behind. So if there were a struggle and something dropped, the plow had pushed it away.
00:55:21
Speaker
However, with no one reporting witnessing any sort of commotion or altercation and Richard saying that he was parked in an area close to the bar, an area that should have been heavily trafficked, police doubted that there would have been even any evidence to have been destroyed in the first place. Makes sense.
00:55:42
Speaker
And while we don't have evidence to clearly point in one direction or another, I mean, obviously keep in mind John's analogy of the snow covered field that I played for you in the beginning. We do have several theories that have been explored over the years that I wanted to share with you now.
Exploring Theories of the Disappearance
00:55:57
Speaker
And I'll, I'll share them all with you, even though there are several that I would immediately discount. Theory number one, this was some sort of random attack.
00:56:09
Speaker
Remember that the decision for the two of them to go out that night was spur of the moment.
00:56:14
Speaker
So even what time they were going to leave the bar wasn't necessarily planned. Right. So I don't know how this could be. Well, okay. I guess this could be random. Okay, go ahead. So it could be random, but in such a crowded area, could the two of them have really been chosen at random? That's what I was about to say. And like, they just kind of happened to get together. And I just feel like the random attack would be,
00:56:44
Speaker
What are the statistical chances that that's going to happen? Yeah. And in such a crowded area, right? You're going to abduct people in an area where there's thousands of people. Right. And so many witnesses. Also, I think if you're going to randomly abduct people, you're probably going to take the weather into consideration. I just don't know if I'd want to commit a kidnapping while it's snowing.
00:57:07
Speaker
Right. Well, and if you're going to randomly attack another person, wouldn't it be far more likely to attack a single person rather than a couple? It's true, too, because then you got more arms trying to hit you and legs kicking you. And they're getting into this large vehicle. So that's theory number one, even though it's pretty quickly discounted. Theory number two is that the two left of their own free will.
00:57:35
Speaker
They said with all the turmoil happening recently in Danielle's life, there's some people who wondered if the two had just decided to leave town, get away from it all. And I have to say, this is probably the theory that I would discount most quickly. I think mainly because
00:57:54
Speaker
Daniel wouldn't leave her son. No. And Richard wouldn't leave his daughter and his family. Exactly. And remember, Daniel's a homebody. That is her safe space. Why would you leave that? And besides that, they would obviously need money if they were going to go and start a new life. I think that would take planning too. And their meetup was random. Yeah. I mean, they hadn't even spoken in weeks.
00:58:20
Speaker
And in addition to their cell phones immediately going to voicemail after going missing, their bank accounts have also not been accessed. So now we're gonna get into some theories in which many who look at this case still see some validity. Theory number three, Richard and Danielle were the victims of a carjacking. Obviously, whomever had taken the pair had also decided to take the truck
00:58:50
Speaker
which why do that if the intended target were just the two of them, right? Like why not take them in your own vehicle or something like that. And in the previous year, in 2004, according to Michelle Short's article in Crime Wire, there were a reported 13,000 vehicles stolen in the Philadelphia area. So pretty common crime. It could be that
00:59:17
Speaker
If someone decided to abduct and harm Daniel and Richard, the quicker the perpetrator could get them out of the street and out of the public eye, the better. And right there was Richard's truck. So it could be that- It was just kind of opportunistic. Right. You're right here at your own truck. Yes.
00:59:37
Speaker
Plus, John indicated in our conversation that law enforcement do feel or seem to feel that the two were abducted at the truck at gunpoint by more than one person. Because, again, how do you subdue two people at once?
01:00:01
Speaker
In contrast to a carjacking, law enforcement believes that that happened for a different reason that I'll talk about in just a moment. Now, it does definitely, definitely make sense to me why they think it was done by more than one person, because again, two individuals, busy street. Also, I actually asked if
01:00:29
Speaker
because I was thinking about this. I'm trying to think of all the possibilities. So when I was talking to John, I said, is it possible that Richard and Danielle had gotten back to the truck and maybe they got lost in the streets of Philly and then ended up in a more dangerous area where something may have happened?
01:00:48
Speaker
you know, thus taking the scene of the crime to a different location. But John assured me that Richard especially was familiar, very familiar with South Philly and that he would have had to have made several consecutive wrong turns to end up in a dangerous area like the one I was talking about. So it is possible, but again, why pick a couple to Karjack versus one person?
01:01:17
Speaker
At this point, I don't even really know what to comment. I get the analogy now. Yeah. Of the snow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:01:27
Speaker
There are still some people who believe, this is another theory, that the two got into an accident on their way home that night. Which is kind of what I said. Yes. So on the surface, this theory makes sense. You've got across a river. There are woods along the route. They had been drinking. Might something have happened to them in their car now be concealed by foliage or by water?
01:01:56
Speaker
However, gates leading down to the water were checked by law enforcement and they were either locked or in the areas of ones that did seem to show signs of being busted through, the water was dredged for Richard's truck. And while there were some vehicles that were pulled from the water, there was no sign of Richard's truck nor of Richard or Danielle. See, this is so interesting and that's kind of why I think
01:02:26
Speaker
I may be in, I may, depending on what the rest of the theories are, combine some of these theories. Okay. Yeah. Theory five is that the two met with foul play, either at the hands of someone targeting Richard or targeting Danielle. Unfortunately, it was the impassioned feelings related to this theory
01:02:50
Speaker
that would end up tearing the two families apart, the Otobre family and the Petron family. You see, someone somewhere along the way suggested, because I saw it in my research, even though I will say this, John, Daniel's brother, certainly did not mention it in our conversation. So this came from my research that perhaps, and let me emphasize,
01:03:19
Speaker
that this was always just a rumor. This was according to an article by Alison Berto for NBC Philadelphia, published on February 20th, 2015. She talks about this rumor that was circulating that, quote, Richard had a gambling problem, finally owing the wrong person money, end quote. But I think that was just
01:03:44
Speaker
people grasping for an explanation because there's honestly zero evidence that that is true. Alternatively, another rumor circulating was that Danielle's estranged husband, Joe, was behind the disappearance. You know, I want to say
01:04:08
Speaker
I don't like how Joe and Danielle ended, right? With the, the finding a new lady on a plane, all that stuff. Right. I don't know if I get this type of vibe from him though. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I would like to clarify too.
01:04:25
Speaker
several things before I move on. First, not only has there been no evidence or proof behind the claim that Richard was a gambler, nor that he had any gambling debts, or any other reason to believe that anybody was targeting him. Alternatively,
01:04:42
Speaker
Joe was questioned by authorities on multiple occasions, and he has also never been named a suspect. He did have an alibi as well. He had taken Joe Jr. to a children's birthday party 50 miles away. And it was a party that was also attended by Joe's stepfather, a former New York police officer.
01:05:07
Speaker
and several other police officers were at this party. Okay, so people we could believe when they say, yeah, he was at this party. Right. So with that being said, there were some shady things that Joe had done in the past that led many people to question his involvement, including at one point accessing Daniel's voicemail after they had separated. Hmm.
01:05:32
Speaker
So he could, I guess, keep tabs on her. Obviously, the poor decision, a rash decision that he made in the past of leaving, his threats to Richard. Well, you know, though, I think he was kind of territorial within, you know, and like them exchanging words, I feel like would have been a normal response to the situation. I mean, he does have this jealousy of her moving on.
01:06:01
Speaker
However, on the night in question, not only was there no voicemail that would have indicated that Daniel was with Richard. Because remember, Richard calls his sister Christine. That's how the conversation happened and this wasn't even planned. But if Joe were involved, it would mean that he would have had 45 minutes and that's it.
01:06:26
Speaker
to plan this crime, drive back, and execute a crime so effectively that he left zero clues. Wow. So, because again, this was a split second decision, and he's 50 miles away. And if that's so, he has a special set of skills. Yes. But based on my research, and I can understand their perspective too, because they, again, as a family, you want an explanation.
01:06:55
Speaker
Based on my research, the Petrone family, Richard's family, have felt in their guts from day one that Joe was involved. Because I think there's that need to be able to explain why something happened. As for Danielle's brother John, who knew Joe extremely well, he admitted that
01:07:23
Speaker
He's not going to say that Joe is guilty or innocent, but until Joe is named a suspect by police, it does no good to point fingers and make accusations without the proof to back it up. I agree.
01:07:39
Speaker
And what does Joe himself have to say about the rumors? Well, he was interviewed, Maggie, for an article published in the April 2014 issue of Philadelphia Magazine. And while he admits there in that interview that a grand jury was convened several years prior to look into
01:08:02
Speaker
his potential involvement and those close to him were interviewed, there were no arrests nor any other action taken. And while he states in the article that FBI agent Vito Rosselli said to him, quote, I don't think you did this, but I think you're involved in some way, end quote. Joe also says in the article, quote, there's only one person in the world that knows I didn't do it.
01:08:31
Speaker
and it's me," end quote. Well, the interviewer, I'll give props, asked about the affair and asked Joe about accessing Daniel's voicemail. And he says very bluntly, quote, I effed up, end quote. But asked point blank if he had anything to do with Daniel's disappearance. He looked the reporter right in the eye and said, absolutely not.
01:09:00
Speaker
And without any evidence to prove otherwise, his word is all we have to take him at. We've talked about that before, you know, when somebody says, oh, I was at home watching TV at night. How do you prove or disprove that? Yeah. Then police began entertaining the final theory, the one police now believe to be true.
Investigative Insights into a Possible Murder for Hire
01:09:26
Speaker
Theory number six.
01:09:28
Speaker
that Richard and Danielle were the victims of a murder for hire plot. Oh, extremely scary. OK. Here is what a detective told John early on in the investigation. Yes, South Philly detective. Delete South Philly detective at the time before he retired. He said you're never going to find anything. We're never going to find physical evidence.
01:09:58
Speaker
This was too clean. And he said this was professional. And that's when they started going with the murder for hire. So basically, Maggie, in essence, because no one saw anything, even on a busy street. And this is the theory you said you were going to get to after we talked about the carjacking. Yes.
01:10:20
Speaker
So because nobody sees anything, even on a busy street, because there's no sign of struggle, because there was no physical evidence left behind, because there was no demand for ransom, because their bank accounts hadn't been accessed, because there was no evidence of the vehicle being sold for parts, because it was so clean
01:10:48
Speaker
law enforcement believed that their disappearance was carried out by professional hit men. I just think didn't like, how do you get rid of a whole car? I don't know. Well, I, John mentioned something that I'll get to in a moment, but my only hesitation with this theory though, Maggie, is something that John and I spoke about when discussing the case. It's something that just doesn't make any sense to me.
01:11:19
Speaker
And it came up when John and I were talking about how Danielle was such a loving and doting mother. Both of them, Danielle and Richard, loving parents. Both of them are also creatures of habit. Both of them are homebodies.
01:11:38
Speaker
Both of them. So if either of the two of them had been the target of an attack, there would have been much more predictable and less crowded places to find them and carry out the hit. And why would they have been?
01:11:56
Speaker
targeted. Right. Yeah. Not only can we not explain why either one of them would have been targeted, but like we just said, if either Richard or Danielle individually had been the intended target of a murder for hire, why not attack them in a much less crowded, easier and more predictable place? And how would they have even known they were going to be together? They wouldn't.
01:12:24
Speaker
They wouldn't have even known where they were going to be unless they were tapping into their phone. Can people even do that? I don't know. Yeah. So, I mean, why not if that's what this is is murder for hire.
01:12:41
Speaker
Why not target them while they're going about their daily routine as creatures of habit? I mean, why here? And if the intended target were both of them, well, that doesn't make any sense either because they hadn't seen each other for weeks. And even this night of meeting up was spur of the moment, an unplanned date. So you're telling me,
01:13:01
Speaker
that someone in this murder for hire scheme had been tailing one or the other of them for weeks on end, even after they stopped seeing each other, just on the off chance that maybe today, something will be different. Maybe today. Yeah. And then followed one or the other of them into the city, waited outside the bar, and then attacked them in a busy area. Like, that just doesn't make sense to me either. No, I feel like that puzzle's too hard to put together.
01:13:29
Speaker
I mean, obviously I feel like there have to be reasons that law enforcement are drawn to this theory. But I have a hard time believing it, if I'm honest. And I guess I just keep going back to who wanted them dead. Right.
01:13:51
Speaker
For his part, Daniel's brother John has always tried to remain open-minded about the possibilities and not to get so laser focused on one theory that another slips by unnoticed. In fact, until law enforcement names someone as a suspect, he refuses to even make a judgment call on his own as to what theory. I think that's smart though. I do too. Yeah.
01:14:16
Speaker
And that could be because the police departments involved in the investigation as well as the FBI have always been, and this makes me so thankful, very involved and empathetic to his family situation. In fact, John told me that they always ensured that the family was the first to know any developments in the case, even when, or rather especially when,
01:14:44
Speaker
those developments were dead ends. They would call just to let John and his mother know, hey, don't watch the news tonight because these claims that they're going to make could be, you know, or say that could be possible. They're baseless. There's no validity to them. So yeah, just don't watch.
01:15:04
Speaker
And even local law enforcement like the Camden Police, they would do the same. John told me, for example, at one point a truck was located in the river and was being pulled out. Oh, so everybody was like, it's Richard's truck. Exactly. So police called John just to let him know that the truck was not Richard's. They had already found the owner of it. Well, the media, however, obviously is not always this kind.
01:15:30
Speaker
In that same truck incident, a local reporter found John, who wasn't even at home at the time, by the way, to ask to speak with him and mention the truck. Well, John had already gotten a phone call from the police department and he tells this reporter, that truck isn't Richard's.
01:15:50
Speaker
And so this reporter says, oh, obviously you're very relieved. And he says, yes, obviously I am. And the reporter leaves. Minutes later, the reporter begins a live story outside of the news van, right outside of where John is, acting as though their conversation never happened. And that the truck could be Richard Petron's that was being pulled out of the river at that moment. I just gave the biggest eye roll.
01:16:18
Speaker
Yeah that is so infuriating.
01:16:22
Speaker
And there have even also been Maggie psychics who have contacted the family and sworn that they knew where Danielle was or knew what happened to her. And I just wish people realized the toll that claims like these have on the families who are so desperate to find their loved ones. You know, that pull to gain answers. It was especially strong for Danielle's brother, John.
01:16:49
Speaker
If you told me she was under a rock three states over, I was holding my wife. And you know, my mother's looking at me for answers. I just, you know, I promised my father on his death bed that I would take care of it. I got it. You can go. I got them. I'll take care of them. You know, all this is going through my head. I'm letting him down. I'm letting my mother down. I can't find her. It was just, it was bad. It was bad for a long time. Oh my God.
01:17:18
Speaker
Maggie, he was looking in train cars because a psychic had convinced his mom that Danielle was still alive and needed help, that she was stuck in a train car. And then there's the guilt that John shouldn't feel because he couldn't have prevented this, but he feels it as the man of the family. Golly. Yeah.
01:17:39
Speaker
So between rumors and speculation and stories getting blown out of proportion, it hasn't been easy to focus on just the facts of the case. John did tell me that there have been comments, something to the effect of how easy it would be to dispose of two bodies in a truck if they were incinerated. But again, there's no evidence of those claims. Those are just
01:18:09
Speaker
beliefs, comments, insinuations. And even though I haven't seen in any of my research what, if any, evidence there is of a murder for hire theory, I keep telling myself that there has to be a reason that law enforcement suggested it.
01:18:32
Speaker
of all of the cases that we have covered, all of them, I've never seen a murder for hire theory thrown out there by law enforcement until this case. So I guess there has to be a good reason then. That's what I keep trying to tell myself, even though it has flaws for me. So I keep going back to the
01:19:00
Speaker
carjacking because I feel like there would be ways you're selling parts of a car or you know I feel like there would be ways to do that so that the car wouldn't be discovered because it's not going to be a whole truck you know and that's kind of what I keep going back to and maybe Danielle and Richard were just in the wrong place at the wrong time
01:19:25
Speaker
because they stumbled upon these people trying to steal his truck. But then, so I guess maybe there could have been more than one person there so that there would have been like a big scuffle. I don't know, I don't know. This one kind of floors me. I know.
01:19:43
Speaker
Despite all of the pain, there are at least two things to be thankful for. The first is that even though Danielle is no longer here to bring that light and charisma into the world, her son Joe Jr. is. And according to Danielle's brother John, he not only looks like his mother Danielle, but so many of her wonderful and lovable qualities he has too. He has her brains.
01:20:11
Speaker
attending a prestigious college on an academic scholarship. He has her mannerisms. He has her clumsiness. Yes, but he also has her compassion and loving heart. And just as Daniel and John were close, John's twins and Daniel's son are also close, speaking to each other every day, sharing family vacations each year and developing a bond that they were always meant to have.
01:20:41
Speaker
The other thing to be thankful for is that law enforcement believe that they are getting close to having answers. In fact, John told me that the FBI have indicated that they feel they are only one connection away from justice, that there's just one dot left to be linked. Could you be the one to link that dot for them? Anyone with information is asked to call the Citizens Crime Commission tip line
01:21:10
Speaker
at 215-546-8477 where you may remain anonymous. If you do not have information but wish to support the family by making a donation to the reward fund, information for that donation can be found in the show notes.
01:21:28
Speaker
Regardless of the ability to provide information or to donate, there is one action that anyone and everyone listening to this episode can take. And that is to share this episode on your social media, to force everyone to take notice, to do our part in helping to make that final link. And with that, I'd like to end with words from the family. Here's what Richard's daughter, Angela wrote on the richardpetrone.com website.
01:21:58
Speaker
quote, dad, it feels like yesterday we would be driving to mom moms, singing along with Bruce or heading to the park to play tennis. You taught me so many things that will carry on with me for the rest of my life. Your birthday just passed, but there's nothing to celebrate without you here. But the memories that will be in my heart forever. There's not a soul on earth that could amount to the love I hold inside for you. You're my father.
01:22:28
Speaker
my idol, and my best friend. My heart will never mend until we find justice. I'll see you tonight in my dreams, Daddy." End quote. And here is Danielle's brother, John's plea to you. You have to understand there's two families that their lives have been just ripped apart. It's been so long. Their children need answers. Their family need answers.
01:22:57
Speaker
It could be anonymous. We just need to connect a couple dots so we can bring our family members, we can put their souls at peace. And that's all I want. We're not naive people. We know they're not coming home and we're never gonna be able to hug them again and tell them we love them. We just want their souls to be at rest and be at peace. And anything anyone can do, I would be forever grateful.
01:23:23
Speaker
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01:23:53
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.